Ladislav Kubala
Victoria Barrett
lacking substantial online sites for Kubala in the modern lingua franca:
little wonder some people hadn't heard of him. *cough* Now, now...don't
worry, I too learned a thing or two. :)]
General Info on Kubala:
http://rdfc.com.ne.kr/coaches/kubala.htm
http://www.barcelona-world.com/history/kubala.htm
Barcelona of the "Five Cups":
http://www.fcbarcelonaonline.com/1952.html
General Barca history:
http://www.barcelona-world.com/history.htm
In Spanish, all the trivia you need to know about him:
http://www.sportec.com/indexnuevo/mitos/futbol/kubala/curiosidades.htm
In Portuguese, a wonderful recap of Kubala's career:
http://www2.uol.com.br/placar/aberto/enciclopedia/craques/kubala.shtml
Interestingly, an Anti-Barca site with Kubala critiques (surprise,
surprise):
http://www.antibarcelona.com/hechos/principal.htm
In case you want to own a replica Kubala jersey:
http://www.jockstrapsnjerseys.co.uk/barcelona_retro_jersey.htm
--
"Very few jobs with Usenet access are available to cats.
Discrimination at it's worst." - Greycat Sharpclaw on RSS.
Sven Mischkies
> [Freaks, I tried my best to find info in English, but we are severely
> lacking substantial online sites for Kubala in the modern lingua franca:
> little wonder some people hadn't heard of him. *cough*
*blushes*
;))
> Now, now...don't
> worry, I too learned a thing or two. :)]
Unbelievable. ;)
Ciao,
SM
--
Ich entfernte mich vom Straßenrand, warf einen Blick auf meine
Schwiegermutter und fuhr die Böschung hinunter.
- aus einem Brief an eine Versicherung
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>[Freaks, I tried my best to find info in English, but we are severely
>lacking substantial online sites for Kubala in the modern lingua franca:
>little wonder some people hadn't heard of him. *cough* Now, now...don't
>worry, I too learned a thing or two. :)]
>
>General Info on Kubala:
>http://www.barcelona-world.com/history/kubala.htm
That's interesting. He's a Serie A reject:)
http://soccer-europe.com
Manolo Benet
Maradona was a Barcelona reject. Think about that.
Adeu, Manolo
--
>>
On a paper submitted by a physicist colleague:
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong."
-- Wolfgang Pauli
<<
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>Maradona was a Barcelona reject. Think about that.
Kubala played for two Serie A clubs. He left Milan after winning a
championship and was never mentioned as one of the great Milan players.
Maradona was at Barca for 5 minutes but is considered among the top
three Barca players of all time.
http://soccer-europe.com
labas
news:YXFAFYBk$tR8...@ntlworld.com...
> >[Freaks, I tried my best to find info in English, but we are severely
> >lacking substantial online sites for Kubala in the modern lingua franca:
> >little wonder some people hadn't heard of him. *cough* Now, now...don't
> >worry, I too learned a thing or two. :)]
> >
> >General Info on Kubala:
>
> >http://www.barcelona-world.com/history/kubala.htm
>
> That's interesting. He's a Serie A reject:)
ROTFL:) Now that explains it all for Bennies.
Manolo Benet
> > From : Manolo Benet <mbe...@aiind.upv.es>
> > Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>
> >Maradona was a Barcelona reject. Think about that.
>
> Kubala played for two Serie A clubs. He left Milan after winning a
> championship and was never mentioned as one of the great Milan players.
Lessons:
1) If you are rejected by Milan, you are crap.
> Maradona was at Barca for 5 minutes but is considered among the top
> three Barca players of all time.
Yes. That was a poll among the Barca supporters. You're not a Barca
supporter.
Victoria Barrett
<snip>
> ROTFL:) Now that explains it all for Bennies.
Listen, this has gotten out of hand. I can't open one thread anymore without
the back and forth blather between labas and soccer-europe. ANY THREAD. And
not just the two, but now it's seeping into discernible "camps".
We all of us here have a poster on RSS who gets our nose out of joint, and
knows what buttons to push. And none of us is perfect, God knows.
But there comes a time when you just have to stop the childishness, else be
treated like the children you are acting like.
I know no one cares what I do, but I'm this close to plonking and that would
be sad. Hopefully, if I ever acted this way with anyone here I'd get a
similar message from a fellow RSS'er that might wake me up and good.
Victoria "Betty Boothroyd" Barrett
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>Lessons:
>
>1) If you are rejected by Milan, you are crap.
Generally speaking yes.
>Yes. That was a poll among the Barca supporters. You're not a Barca
>supporter.
Don't have a great sense of history do they?
http://soccer-europe.com
Colin Beirne
Puskas turned out for Kubula's testemonial wearing Barcelona's
colours.........
--
Colin Beirne
Pininfarina Studi e Ricerche
Manolo Benet
> > From : Manolo Benet <mbe...@aiind.upv.es>
> > Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>
> >Lessons:
> >
> >1) If you are rejected by Milan, you are crap.
>
> Generally speaking yes.
That says it all.
> >Yes. That was a poll among the Barca supporters. You're not a Barca
> >supporter.
>
> Don't have a great sense of history do they?
Probably as much as Milan supporters.
Manolo Benet
> I know no one cares what I do, but I'm this close to plonking and that would
> be sad.
You said you would never plonk me <insert Bart Simpson laugh>.
;-)
Sven Mischkies
> I know no one cares what I do, but I'm this close to plonking and that would
> be sad.
I already plonked Labas yesterday and i am close to do the same with
Benny (didn't do it yesterday because he posts more valuable posts than
Labas).
Ciao,
SM
--
Ich bin sicher, unserer Mannschaft wird nichts passieren.
Mannschaftskapitän Berti Vogts bei der WM '78 zu den Folterungen unter
dem argentinischen Militärregime
Colin Beirne
willing to stand corrected......who was the other Serie A club he played
for?
--
Colin Beirne
>
> > From : Manolo Benet <mbe...@aiind.upv.es>
> > Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>
> >Lessons:
> >
> >1) If you are rejected by Milan, you are crap.
>
> Generally speaking yes.
Vieira ;)
>
> >Yes. That was a poll among the Barca supporters. You're not a Barca
> >supporter.
>
> Don't have a great sense of history do they?
>
Man Utd chose Cantona over Bobby Charlton.
Who did Milan choose in their Centenary year?
Baresi?
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>Probably as much as Milan supporters.
Milan supporters actually have a clue. Milan's top three were Baresi,
Van Basten and Rivera.
http://soccer-europe.com
Shawn Pickrell
> Victoria "Betty Boothroyd" Barrett
this flamewar, too, shall pass.
--
... Shawn Pickrell, the Boss of All Usenet
... Mortals may contact me at shawn_p...@yahoo.com
Shawn Pickrell
> I don't think Kubala played a league match for Milan, Benny, though I'm
> willing to stand corrected......who was the other Serie A club he played
> for?
i had known pro patria had several years in serie a,
1949-50 was one of them: they finished 11th that season,
where roma finished 18th (!), two points above
relegation.
Robert the 'erbert
Shawn Pickrell <sp6...@corgi.bna.com> wrote in message
news:a270ih$71f$e...@dosa.alt.net...
> > I know no one cares what I do
I wonder if we have any choice :)
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>Who did Milan choose in their Centenary year?
>Baresi?
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>I don't think Kubala played a league match for Milan, Benny, though I'm
>willing to stand corrected......who was the other Serie A club he played
>for?
Pro Patria. Yes I know what you're thinking, who?
http://soccer-europe.com
soccer-europe
> Subject : Order! Order! (was Re: Ladislav Kubala)
>But there comes a time when you just have to stop the childishness, else be
>treated like the children you are acting like.
I'm not the one who has been rude to everyone with an opinion different
to my own. That's the difference here. It's not my fault he keeps making
a rod for his own back and if I felt people were not entertained then
I'd stop.
http://soccer-europe.com
Manolo Benet
> > From : Manolo Benet <mbe...@aiind.upv.es>
> > Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>
> >Probably as much as Milan supporters.
>
> Milan supporters actually have a clue. Milan's top three were Baresi,
> Van Basten and Rivera.
Congratulations. You made my day.
Futbolmetrix
They had several years in Serie A in the 40s and 50s.
The only other thing I know about them is that their jersey
has large white and blue horizontal bands, a bit like Argentina's
rugby jersey.
Daniele
soccer-europe <soccer...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:P64VefCT...@ntlworld.com...
Renaud Dreyer
> > From : Manolo Benet <mbe...@aiind.upv.es>
> > Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>
> >Lessons:
> >
> >1) If you are rejected by Milan, you are crap.
>
> Generally speaking yes.
Poor Vieira... Ciao,
Renaud Dreyer
Victoria Barrett
news:cDD18.38289$_x4.5...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
<I wrote>
> > > I know no one cares what I do
>
> I wonder if we have any choice :)
I have no choice about what you do; you have none on what I do, Robert.
See, that's the scary, delightful, frustrating world of Usenet. Only common
sense and courtesy make it anything short of anarchy.
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>Poor Vieira... Ciao,
I said generally speaking. I didn't think it would be necessary to say
with the odd exception i.e. Vieira and Davids.
http://soccer-europe.com
gaborzinho
<soccer...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Well, I just had to chime in.
Laszlo (as it is on his birth certificate) Kubala was born in Budapest, on
June 10, 1927. His parents were from, what was by then part of,
Czechoslovakia (Bratislava or Pozsony). His father was Polish-Slovakian, his
mother Hungarian-Slovakian. Not that it matters, as it never mattered to
"Kuksi", as he was called from early childhood. He once said, when pressed
for declaring his nationality: "I am a citizen of the world."
His first team was a poor factory-sponsored team: Ganz TE, where he played
as an 11-year-old among 14-16-year-olds. When he turned 18 Ferencváros
signed him. (I was playing with my youth team against Ferencvaros as a
preliminary match on Christmas Day 1945, and ended up staying afterwards to
watch the Ferencvaros - Vasas match. Kuksi scored 2 goals in a 4-1 win, that
was the first time I met him.) Next year he received his draft notice. He
escaped to Czechoslovakia, and signed with SK Bratislava. He played for the
Czech national team 6 times, scoring 4 goals. Then he received his draft
notice there too, so back to Hungary he went. By then Ferencvaros was
labeled a "fascist" team by the communists and were under all kinds of
restrictions. So Kuksi signed with Vasas. While there, he played for
Hungary's national team 3 times. When the communists consolidated their
power and took over the government, he paid some smugglers to take him to
Italy. There he and some other players formed a team called Hungaria and
played exhibition matches. The team was comprised of Hungarians who were
living in the areas that were reunited with pre-war countries, Transylvania,
Carpatho-Ukraine, Southern Slovakia, Vojvodina, etc. They beat Real Madrid
4-2 in Madrid, beat the Spanish national team that was preparing for the
1950 WC, and Espanyol. That was the best match Kuksi played, and observers
from Barcelona were in the stands. So they offered him a contract, which he
signed on June 15, 1950.
Sorry guys, he never played for AC Milan, or any other Italian team. He had
a pre-contract with Pro Patria, that is all. The way that came about was
that the President of Pro Patria bet him a gold watch, that he (Kuksi)
cannot joggle the ball all the way around the pitch. Of course, Kuksi won
the bet and he was offered a contract, too. Inter and Torino also wanted to
sign him. He agreed to guest-play for Torino at a frindly in Lisboa. Just
before he was to board the plane, his wife and child arrived from Hungary.
His son was very ill, so Kuksi backed out of the trip (he's my man, family
first!). On the return flight Torino's plane crashed killing everyone on
board, includig one of Kuksi's best friends Gyula Schubert. As a footnote,
the reason for the crash was, that the players smuggled gold from Portugal
to Italy, as in Portugal it was much-much cheaper at that time. In order to
avoid having to go through customs, they set up a drop at Superga, where
accomplices were waiting on the ground. The plane descended too low and
crashed. Kuksi remained a Barcelona player until 1963 and played for Spain
19 times. He then was player-coach for RCD Espanyol, FC Zürich, then finally
for the Toronto Falcons, from where he retired in 1968.
During the days of the Hungarian Revolution in 1956, when several Hungarian
football teams were touring abroad, Kuksi was the go-between. It was him who
recommended no less than four Hungarian players to Barcelona (Kocsis and
Czibor from Honved, both of which previously played with Kuksi at
Ferencvaros, Kaszas and Szalay from Hungary's U-21 team.) He was also the
person who delivered Real Madrid's offer to Lajos Tichy for 200 kgs of gold,
an offer Tichy turned down. His accomplishment are more or less correctly
listed on the various websites given. One thing stands out. In 1953 England
had a gala match against the Rest of Europe. No less than 7 Hungarian
players were selected. Hungary declined to participate, since they had a
match against England about a month later, and they wanted to be the first
continental team to beat them at Wembley. It is unlikely, that Kuksi would
have gotten much playing time had Kocsis played, but this way he did. And he
scored two goals. Europe was leading 4-3, England equalized in the last
minute, so Hungary did in fact become the first.
Kuksi never played in a WC. In 1962 he played in some of the qualifiers, but
both he and DiStefano got hurt just before the finals. So, despite making
the trip to Chile, neither of them saw one minute of playing time. In 1999,
at Barcelona's 100th anniversary, he was voted by the fans as the all-time
best player, ahead of Cruyff and Maradona. He was also selected by sport
journalist as the second best player in Spain during the 20th Century,
behind DiStefano. He was also awarded the Grand Cross of Sports by the
government of Spain.
Couple of corrections. One of the websites states that Czibor once played
for AS Roma. Plus it states that he was a defender. Not true! He signed a
contract, which was nullified by the ban, or rather limit, on foreign
players just a few days later. It is quite a story, but Czibor got a $10.000
compensation, plus AS Roma paid his back rent on the villa he and his family
were living in. And he was, of course, a brilliant left wing. Born Aug. 23,
1929 in Komarom, BTW. Died there on Sep. 1, 1997.)
Another website lists Kocsis' stats for Kuksi, Hungarian scoring champion.
WC best scorer, etc.
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>Sorry guys, he never played for AC Milan, or any other Italian team. He had
>a pre-contract with Pro Patria, that is all. The way that came about was
According to this website he played for Milan :
http://www.barcelona-world.com/history/kubala.htm
See what else they got wrong!
>first!). On the return flight Torino's plane crashed killing everyone on
>board, includig one of Kuksi's best friends Gyula Schubert. As a footnote,
>the reason for the crash was, that the players smuggled gold from Portugal
>to Italy, as in Portugal it was much-much cheaper at that time. In order to
>avoid having to go through customs, they set up a drop at Superga, where
>accomplices were waiting on the ground. The plane descended too low and
>crashed.
Are you sure? It's the first time I heard about the gold smuggling.
http://soccer-europe.com
gaborzinho
<soccer...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> From : gaborzinho <fga...@tampabay.rr.com>
>> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>
>>Sorry guys, he never played for AC Milan, or any other Italian team. He had
>>a pre-contract with Pro Patria, that is all. The way that came about was
>
> According to this website he played for Milan :
>
> http://www.barcelona-world.com/history/kubala.htm
>
> See what else they got wrong!
>
Well, let's see!
1. I mentioned this in another post in connection with Kispest Honved, but
there is no such team as Ferencvaros Budapest (or Bufapest ;-). The name of
the team is Ferencvaros Torna Club, FTC, or Fradi. Minor error. (Vasas
Budapest IS correct, even though until 1949 the were called Vasas Sport
Club.)
2. Pro Patria - he never played for this team.
3. He signed with Barcelona in 1950, never played for AC Milan. As far as I
know, he never even talked to them.
4. He played for Barcelona until 1963.
5. Obviously the next paragraph is incorrect in its entirety, as it pertains
to Sandor Kocsis, not to Kubala.
6. Coaching career:
Barcelona (technical director 1963--64, head coach 1964)
RCD Espanyol (player-coach 1964--65)
FC Zürich (player-coach 1966--67)
Toronto Falcons (player-coach 1967--68)
FC Córdoba (head coach1968--69)
Spain (head coach 1969--80)
Barcelona (head coach 1980, coach of youth team, then director of youth
development 1981--82)
al-Hilal (head coach 1982--86)
CF Murcia (head coach 1986--87)
FC Málaga (head coach 1987--89)
Spanish Olympic team(head coach 1991--92)
Paraguay (head coach 1995).
As far as I know he never coached the Saudi Arabian Olympic team.
>>first!). On the return flight Torino's plane crashed killing everyone on
>>board, includig one of Kuksi's best friends Gyula Schubert. As a footnote,
>>the reason for the crash was, that the players smuggled gold from Portugal
>>to Italy, as in Portugal it was much-much cheaper at that time. In order to
>>avoid having to go through customs, they set up a drop at Superga, where
>>accomplices were waiting on the ground. The plane descended too low and
>>crashed.
>
> Are you sure? It's the first time I heard about the gold smuggling.
I was not there, so obviously I don't know it first hand. My recollection is
that Kuksi told me that, who was also in on the deal. I tried to call him
this morning in Barcelona, but could not get him, as he is in Budapest right
now. In 1984 I was interviewed by a Hungarian writer for a book he was
writing on Puskas. We were waiting for Puskas in a hotel lobby with another
player Bela Egresi (he died a few years ago), who was also an ex-Kispest
player. He was with Torino at the time of the accident, but was not under
contract, so he did not make the fatal trip. He was also talking about this
matter, as he gave money to Gyula Schubert to make a purchase on his behalf.
Again, I remembered gold. But I finally called this writer guy after I
couldn't get Kuksi, and with my luck he answered the phone at his apartment.
He looked it up in his notes. I was wrong! It was DIAMONDS, not GOLD! Mea
culpa!
I went through all this just for you and for the sake of accurate
reporting!!!! Beyond this I cannot confirm the accuracy of the story, but I
have no reason to believe that either Kuksi or Csopi would make this up.
>
> http://soccer-europe.com
Victoria Barrett
<snip>
> But I finally called this writer guy after I couldn't get Kuksi,
**********************
*GASP!!!*
*bows*
*curtseys*
*genuflects*
*leaves*
Your adoring wench,
Victoria
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>Well, let's see!
>
>5. Obviously the next paragraph is incorrect in its entirety, as it pertains
>to Sandor Kocsis, not to Kubala.
Yes, that's really an easy mistake to make!
>As far as I know he never coached the Saudi Arabian Olympic team.
You couldn't even make this stuff up! Unbeliever.
>I was not there, so obviously I don't know it first hand. My recollection is
>that Kuksi told me that, who was also in on the deal. I tried to call him
>this morning in Barcelona, but could not get him, as he is in Budapest right
>now. In 1984 I was interviewed by a Hungarian writer for a book he was
>writing on Puskas. We were waiting for Puskas in a hotel lobby with another
>player Bela Egresi (he died a few years ago), who was also an ex-Kispest
>player. He was with Torino at the time of the accident, but was not under
>contract, so he did not make the fatal trip. He was also talking about this
>matter, as he gave money to Gyula Schubert to make a purchase on his behalf.
>Again, I remembered gold. But I finally called this writer guy after I
>couldn't get Kuksi, and with my luck he answered the phone at his apartment.
>He looked it up in his notes. I was wrong! It was DIAMONDS, not GOLD! Mea
>culpa!
>I went through all this just for you and for the sake of accurate
>reporting!!!! Beyond this I cannot confirm the accuracy of the story, but I
>have no reason to believe that either Kuksi or Csopi would make this up.
I believe you it's just that I never heard anything about smuggling in
the various reports on the disaster I have read over the years so was
stunned when you mentioned it. It's a tragedy that these players died as
a result of greed, a real tragedy.
http://soccer-europe.com
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
>You couldn't even make this stuff up! Unbeliever.
Sorry that should read unbelievable.
http://soccer-europe.com
soccer-europe
> Subject : Ladislav Kubala
I see you're impressed! There are a few journalists who read this group,
they just keep quiet! Someone who occasionally e-mails me from time to
time used to play in the same youth team as........ Shevchenko!
http://soccer-europe.com
Victoria Barrett
> I see you're impressed!
Yes!
> There are a few journalists who read this group,
> they just keep quiet!
No!
I wasn't impressed that he could call any ole journalist...but that
gaborzinho could call KUBALA (!). I mean, okay, he didn't get through, but
at least it was a POSSIBILITY.
To me this suggests that maybe, i.e. probably, he could probably
call...................PUSKAS. *thud!!*
> Someone who occasionally e-mails me from time to
> time used to play in the same youth team as........ Shevchenko!
That's fantastic, Benny. :)
But I guess then you don't want to hear about my dinner at Emerson
Fittipaldi's home in Key Biscayne, as I accompanied my parents, where a
certain someone called Edson stopped briefly by............................
P.S.: Only Maradona and Puskas are missing from my "Wish to meet before I
die list", soccer-wise. I got him above, Sirs Stan and Bobby out the
way...I'm talking about the BIGGIES now.
Yeah, so what if I was at the Scala disco in Paris two feet away from
Platini, and have met the entire Brazilian Selecao (includin Ronaldo and
Roberto Carlos) because they were lodged at the Biltmore Hotel in Coral
Gables, the gym of which I am a member? They're big, but they're not THE
BIGGIES.
Maradona somehow somewhere will enter the VB Pantheon one day (even if I
have to go back to Cuba dammit!), but Puskas? *sigh*
Sven Mischkies
> To me this suggests that maybe, i.e. probably, he could probably
> call...................PUSKAS. *thud!!*
Of course he can? I guess that is clear since he told us the story of
his life? :)
> But I guess then you don't want to hear about my dinner at Emerson
> Fittipaldi's home in Key Biscayne, as I accompanied my parents, where a
> certain someone called Edson stopped briefly by............................
Edson? Hmmm.... One of the Muppets? :))
> Maradona somehow somewhere will enter the VB Pantheon one day (even if I
> have to go back to Cuba dammit!), but Puskas? *sigh*
Ah... Admit it - you only posted to get FP's address to visit him! ;)
Ciao,
SM
--
»There are only three types of computer users.
Those that use Macs.
Those that wished they used Macs.
Those that don't know any better.« Alte Volksweisheit
Futbolmetrix
"Victoria Barrett" <vbar...@the-beach.net> wrote in message
news:a2arv2$vpsv5$1...@ID-121719.news.dfncis.de...
> die list", soccer-wise. I got him above, Sirs Stan and Bobby out the
> way...I'm talking about the BIGGIES now.
Then of course you already know David Beckham *very* personally...
Daniele
Futbolmetrix
[On the Superga crash and smuggling on the part of the Torino players]
> >player. He was with Torino at the time of the accident, but was not under
> >contract, so he did not make the fatal trip. He was also talking about
this
> >matter, as he gave money to Gyula Schubert to make a purchase on his
behalf.
> >Again, I remembered gold. But I finally called this writer guy after I
> >couldn't get Kuksi, and with my luck he answered the phone at his
apartment.
> >He looked it up in his notes. I was wrong! It was DIAMONDS, not GOLD! Mea
> >culpa!
>
> I believe you it's just that I never heard anything about smuggling in
> the various reports on the disaster I have read over the years so was
> stunned when you mentioned it. It's a tragedy that these players died as
> a result of greed, a real tragedy.
This could very well be just another rumour you heard on the internet,
but I also have no reason to believe Gaborzinho would be making this up.
Other than this, I can understand how none of this ever came up in all
the reports about the Superga crash. The great Torino team has become
an icon in Italy, some sort of national symbol that you do not want to
throw
mud upon. Together with Fausto Coppi, they are generally considered as
something that gave a ray of hope in the difficult years of post-war
reconstruction.
So even if some reporter did catch hold of this story, he probably would
have
just said: "well, this one I'll just pretend I didn't hear it".
Daniele
Paul C
<dpas...@shumNOSPAM.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>Pro Patria, from Busto Arsizio, somewhere in Lombardia.
>They had several years in Serie A in the 40s and 50s.
>The only other thing I know about them is that their jersey
>has large white and blue horizontal bands, a bit like Argentina's
>rugby jersey.
Still going strong in C2 Girone A (4th level) along several other
clubs who have played in Serie A - Alessandria, Pro Vercelli,
Cremonese, Legnano and Novara.
Alessandria 17 38
Pro Patria 16 32
Prato 17 30
Sangiovannese 16 28
Pro Sesto 17 25
Pro Vercelli 17 24
Pavia 17 24
Cremonese 17 23
Castelnuovo 17 22
Legnano 17 19
Viareggio 17 19
Montevarchi 17 18
Novara 17 18
Meda 17 18
Valenzana 17 18
Biellese 17 16
Poggibonsi 17 14
Rondinella 17 13
gaborzinho
<vbar...@the-beach.net> wrote:
Ooooooooh, I only wish I were 20, no make that 30, wait a minute, 40, no, 50
years younger! :-))))
gaborzinho
<dpas...@shumNOSPAM.huji.ac.il> wrote:
Like I said, I just heard it from others, not a rumor I heard on the
Internet. Knowing my sources, I have no reason to believe they had any
reason for not telling the truth.
But I would not attribute this to greed. Back in those days it was common
for certain teams to provide some form of bonus to players in lieu of cash.
After the war it was not unusual for big city teams to play exhibition
matches against provincial teams. Then after the match they stayed for
dinner and received food items as gifts. Food was in scarce supply in big
cities then, so a stick of salami, a slab of bacon, eggs, cheese, etc. were
valuable commodities. Don't put this in the perspective of today's
multimillionaire players. These were called "bread-and-butter" tours. Many
Spanish, Italian teams toured South America for similar reasons (instead,
say, England or Germany), where they could make purchases which then could
be sold at a profit back home, leather goods, jewelry, etc. In Western
Europe the economic incentives quickly disappeared due to the reconstruction
and by the early 50-s this was not a factor, with two exceptions: cigarettes
and booze. It was not uncommon to see players load up on these items so they
can either sell them, or use them as gifts back home. Nowadays it is the
electronics. You should have seen the players of Brasil after the WC of
1994, when they organized a shopping spree just prior to returning home.
Before the WC of 1986 Bora moved all of Mexico's exhibition matches to the
LA Coliseum. In the morning of the matches, Mexican players, most even
wearing team warm-ups, were prowling LA's electronic shopping district to
make purchases.
In places such as Hungary, this was much more important, as the standard of
living was much lower. Plus the communist idealogy did not tolerate
"professional" sports. So players were encouraged to bring in desirable
items to supplement their income, they were promised no customs inspection
upon returning. At one time even Hungary's president of the FA was the head
of customs, who could order or rescind exceptions at will. Some of these
players had a staff to handle resales, as they did not have the time to
peddle their goods. At one time Puskas complained to a high official, and
told him that if they raise their salaries (in the phony jobs they had) to
such-and-such, the smuggling would stop. This official responded, what would
then the miners and the industrial workers say. In other words, he could not
make an exception to the communist priciple of equality. So the smuggling
continued. There was this joke around the Honved clubhouse, when people said
the day before the team's bus was due to arrive back, that they already
heard the bus because it was clicking so loud. (Swiss watches were hot
items.) Or the swishing noise of the nylon stockings, or whatever was
lucrative at the moment.
On a more serious note, players were often requested to bring in items such
as spare parts to machines. As it was officially "no shortage" of these
items, the government would have lost face, had they tried to go through
official channels. I heard that Hidegkuti, whose mother worked in a weaving
mill, once brought in two large suitcases full of some special needles. The
suitcases were so heavy, nobody could lift them. But at the train terminal
there were half a dozen people from the mill waiting for him already to
help. Hidegkuti then was given some kind of medal, like the "Hero of
Socialist Labor" or similar. Just for information, in the smuggling business
Lorant and Puskas were by far the best, with Czibor a close second. Kocsis
was by far the worst, he would get taken advantage of at both ends. The
others, while they had their moments, were somewhere in-between.
On another, even more serious note, players or staff who were observed to
step outside the guidelines while abroad, were set up by the AVH/KGB.
Grosics was actually banned from football for a year, and was kicked out of
Honved. Some others did prison time. I almost got screwed once, someone put
a banned item in my suitcase. I got lucky though, one of the players saw it
and told me. I removed the item and left it on the train. At customs they
turned my suitcase inside out and held me for over an hour, but came up with
nothing. Funny, I had two suitcases, but they only scrutinezed the one the
stuff was supposed to be in. Obviously, they were acting under orders. I
hope the AVH man, whose responsibility it was to set this up, got severely
reprimanded.
Besides the communist countries, smuggling was also somewhat tolerated in
Brasil, and I am sure, in other countries also. Players would carry coffee
and gemstones out and watches, electronics, porno movies in. I once posted
about old Galečo where people had to pass a long table during customs
inspections and place their suitcases on the table to be opened by the
officials. They would load soccer balls with watches, and while waiting in
line, they would pass the balls under the table to those already past the
inspection line. Goods confiscated were taken to the police station, if the
player had connections, they could reclaim them later. Or in the case of
less famous people, and I saw this done to Nelson Rockefeller, Sergio Mendez
and that triple-jumper fellow, a high ranking customs official, under orders
from higher ups, simply grabbed the suitcases and bypassed the line. (Of
course Rockefeller was not smuggling, just did not want to bother with the
line, Sergio Mendez and the tripple-jumper I am not sure.) After Brasil lost
WC final in 1998, they returned home via Miami. You can guess why. But they
were granted no favors at the customs, and many players openly complained
about it.
Summa summarum, don't be so harsh on those players, they have to be judged
based on contemporary standards, not those of today. And yes, that Torino
team was indeed great.
Colin Beirne
Apparently, the plane carrying the Torino players, trainers and
journalists stopped first in Barcelona to refuel. Some reports say that
the plane should have flown to Milan and not landed at Turin. Whatever
the truth, cloudbase over Turin on that day was 400m. The crew checked
in over Savona, on the Ligurian coast, at about 2000m. This is 120km,
more or less from Turin. They were then apparently forced to descend to
be able to fly and land visually. The plane crashed into a wall of the
basilica on top of the Superga Hills at approximately 675m, with a
visibility of 40m(I actually live on these group of hills.) Official
causes of the crash were bad weather with low cloud, poor radio aids and
navigational error. 18 players were killed along with the crew,
trainers, executives, jornalists and an interpretor, making 31 in all.
--
Colin Beirne
Pininfarina Studi e Ricerche
Sven Mischkies
> Ooooooooh, I only wish I were 20, no make that 30, wait a minute, 40, no, 50
> years younger! :-))))
30 years younger and you would be the man of her dreams. ;)
Ciao,
SM
--
Das Leben ist Fluch - abgesehen davon, daß es Segen ist,
und es bleibt Sache der persönlichen Schicksals, ob man
es primär als das eine oder das andere empfindet.
Klaus Mann
Victoria Barrett
> Ooooooooh, I only wish I were 20, no make that 30, wait a minute, 40, no,
50
> years younger! :-))))
Pshaw! In these days of Viagra...
Your fellow Floridian, *hint massive hint wink nudge*
Victoria
gaborzinho
<vbar...@the-beach.net> wrote:
> "soccer-europe" <soccer...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:YhMgYKAN...@ntlworld.com...
>> I see you're impressed!
>
> Yes!
>
>> There are a few journalists who read this group,
>> they just keep quiet!
>
> No!
>
> I wasn't impressed that he could call any ole journalist...but that
> gaborzinho could call KUBALA (!). I mean, okay, he didn't get through, but
> at least it was a POSSIBILITY.
>
> To me this suggests that maybe, i.e. probably, he could probably
> call...................PUSKAS. *thud!!*
>
I have Puskas' home number, and I called him once or twice a year until Sep.
2000. Since then he is in the Kutvolgyi Hospital in Budapest, and is only
allowed out occasionally, and under the supervision of a nurse. Usually for
no more than 2 hours at a time. I still keep in touch with many old friends.
BTW, Puskas, Buzanszky, Grosics and Hidegkuti used to visit Florida
(Sarasota area) annually until a few years ago. Last year only Buzanszky
came, he is also scheduled to visit this year. They usually come during late
April early May, before it gets really hot. Kubala still plays tennis at a
public playground near his home in Barcelona. He is seldom there though, he
spends a lot of time with his grandchildren who live elsewhere. He is in
great physical shape. He also visits Budapest, during those visits you can
find him at Ferencvaros. He also goes to Bratislava to visit friends, but I
don't know where he goes when he is there. All in all, he is away from home
for at least half the year. Last year he even travelled to South America to
visit old teammates. He keeps very busy.
gaborzinho
<dpas...@shumNOSPAM.huji.ac.il> wrote:
You could have easily met Puskas until Sep. 2000. He was present at every
Kispest Honved home match and was very approachable. He was also a regular
at a certain restaurant and apart from during dinner, he gladly chatted with
others. Of course, people generally respected his privacy and were not
overly pushy. Since then, sadly, he is in the hospital, and it is unlikely
that he will ever be allowed to mingle with people he does not know.
Victoria Barrett
> I have Puskas' home number, and I called him once or twice a year until
Sep.
> 2000.
Dude, I've already offered you my bod, what more do you want? Okay, I'll
throw in unlimited use of my mind and soul, if the Viagra thingie doesn't
work out.
P.S.: Home number. *THUD!!* I love this man...
gaborzinho
<vbar...@the-beach.net> wrote:
But Victoria, I think you just want to use me! Do you often offer yourself
to strangers?
*PLUP**PLUP* that was two Viagras I just took. :-)
PS: First I get propositioned by a teenager ;-), then I read a dissertation
on the nipples of a young lady wearing, ahem, not wearing, a football
jersey, what has this newsgroup turned into?
Victoria Barrett
> But Victoria, I think you just want to use me! Do you often offer yourself
> to strangers?
In exchange for innumerable and vastly rich football stories, my darling
gaborzinho, I am willing to sully even my maidenly honour and family
escutcheon.
> *PLUP**PLUP* that was two Viagras I just took. :-)
A small recap of the latter-half of the Twentieth-Century would, I think, be
appropriate here. To whit:
1960's - The Pill
1970's - Sex, Drugs and Rock 'n' Roll, yeah baby yeah!
1980's - AIDS and Dr. Ruth
1990's - Sexual Addiction clinics, Viagra, and Monica Lewinsky (in no
particular order)
2000's - Victoria Barrett lets it all hang out (for the small sum of one
Kubala story per night)
> PS: First I get propositioned by a teenager ;-), then I read a
dissertation
> on the nipples of a young lady wearing, ahem, not wearing, a football
> jersey, what has this newsgroup turned into?
Oh the inhumanity!