Guest coaches
RaisingTTT
then the other figure skating board (if I'm wrong, I'm sure you guys will tell
me).
Today at our rink, there was a coach that was flown in from another state. It
was a female coach, and a name I had never heard of before, but a lot of people
were going ga-ga over her being there -- they had "sessions" set up where you
could
have her "coach" you for 20 minutes for "X" dollars. A lot of kids signed up
(okay, the parents signed them up). I did not sign up my daughter, because I
could not see where this would be any good. How can a "visiting" coach that
has never seen your child before, and who will never see them again, in 20
minutes be able to "help" your child? If the answer is they can (and can you
explain how), at what level does this become effective? A what age?
Why do the rinks/skatinh clubs do this?
On the other hand, they (the skating club) also brought in a person to work
off-ice. I was interested in having my daughter do this (I figure anything I
can learn to help her do things at home is a good thing), but the rink
management REFUSED to let this guy (although he is very renowned) work inside
the rink -- even though he had his own insurance, etc. He was forced to work
outside on the sidewalk with the kids. What message does this give all around?
To me, it said we do not care about your child, we are not getting money for
this off-ice (the rink that is) so we won't help you. The coach was actually
very very good, and I learned a lot in keeping knees over toes, and some
exercises to help my child with this.
Why would the rink let one person in and not the other?
Just trying to learn, grown and understand in the skating world,
rttt
Arinc Formosa
few sessions. All of them said they want to take some when the champion is
back for the next holiday.
Most of comments are "demonstrate jumps from a different view point ...
inspire them to challenge themselves ... " They also learnt how to warm-up
and some basic stuff. For myself, I liked the chitchat about the competitive
history.
Kay
"RaisingTTT" <raisi...@aol.comstopit>
>How can a "visiting" coach that
> has never seen your child before, and who will never see them again, in 20
> minutes be able to "help" your child?
I'm an adult skater who recently changed coaches. I was not unhappy w/ my
previous coach but circumstances at the rink led me to change rinks. Anyway,
in one less this new coach showed me techniques in a new way that the other
coach either did not see or could not communicate or had given up on. I
wrote about this experience in my online journal. Title: "Meet Cynthia". The
entry may be helpful to you. I am also preparing another entry about the new
coach that I plan to post today.
http://www.skatejournal.com/current.html
>
>but the rink
> management REFUSED to let this guy (although he is very renowned) work
inside
> the rink -- even though he had his own insurance, etc. He was forced to
work
> outside on the sidewalk with the kids.
From what I understand, coaches pay a commission to the rink. I do not see
why he would not pay the same commission whether he was on the ice or not.
Pairs coaches give off-ice all the time for lifts. I think the rink has made
a big mistake there. They are acting petty and selfish. I think their may be
issues b/w the off-ice coach and someone in the management.
Jeanne
will never see them again, in 20
minutes be able to "help" your child? >>
Because they are specialists - usually. When I was at Lake Placid there was a
spin specialist that was booked solid. Some instructors are specialists, and
can definately help with certain types of skills. They have a lot of knowledge
and teaching methods that can be valuable to the skater. I recall Paul Wylie
giving credit to a guest coach that taught him how important extension is.
>>at what level does this become effective?
That's a good question. I think specialists are more apt to aid an already
developed skater. One that has been skating for a few years, at least.
>>He was forced to work outside on the sidewalk with the kids.
That doesn't seem right. Off-ice, on the cement?
Jeanne
RaisingTTT
yes, on the cement...
rttt
Isiafs5
>has never seen your child before, and who will never see them again, in 20
>minutes be able to "help" your child?
New ideas, new approaches, more experience. This is why coaches attend clinics
and kids attend sports summer camps in most sports. It is why when I mentioned
that I lived a few miles from Tonya Harding during the summers that my coach
strongly encouraged me to take privates from TH....did not happen since my
summer address changed.
Sling Skate
Buy ALTOIDS!!! Thanks for the support UK.
johns
dance teachers for years. They are not going to teach
any one athlete very much at all, but they are going to
communicate new developments, techniques, and
directions in the sport. The most important person(s)
to be there are the coaches who will volunteer their
students to test and try out new stuff. It then becomes
important for the coaches to include that material in
their 'schools'. The second most important people to
be there are the judges so that they can have some idea
of the nature of "improvements" that should not become
deductions. It was always my experience that the loudest
debates came from them defending those deductions
and blocking any new developments as "fads". Shame ..
because it takes the coaches a fairly long time to 'train in'
and see the advantage of the new skills. Equally a shame
is the arrogant attitude of many American coaches towards "foreign" visiting
coaches. Eventually all of this
works its way into the "schools" given a few eons. As
for parents attending these things .... basically it is hyped
to you so that you will be willing to foot the bill for the
seminars and allow your child to participate. Every athletic
facility works that way to fund their age-group programs
.... right or wrong. However, I see parent roles in this
as *enforcement*. I'm not kidding either. If you see your
club sluff this stuff off and not at least try to include this
training in the lesson program, then speak up. It will give
you insight into the attitudes of rink staff, plus let them
know that their paying customers expect good results
in the long run from these pricey seminars.
Beyond that .. there is no way a one day seminar is
going to raise the general skill level of a child. Nor is
any of the "stuff" they teach going to be of much value
if it is implemented at home by a parent. It should become
part of the general "skate school". As for all the insurance
stuff ... well .. Don't feed the staff. You really are just
asking for a lot of verbal abuse and attitude from them.
If you want something to get done, wave a dollar bill
at them. It will work every time, and life will be good.
johns
David Diamond
>
> I'm an adult skater who recently changed coaches. I was not unhappy w/ my
> previous coach but circumstances at the rink led me to change rinks.
Anyway,
> in one less this new coach showed me techniques in a new way that the
other
> coach either did not see or could not communicate or had given up on.
>
I definitely feel that I benefit from having multiple coaches, and from
cross-training between ice and roller. Various coaches suggest different
approaches, suggestions, and styles. Communcation passes through both the
sender's and receiver's personal filters, and, for a given person, a
suggestion from one coach might not click, but one from a different coach
does. Additionally, by alternating between ice and quads, our bodies learn
to adapt to variations of demands and balance requirements. What I learn
on ice helps my roller and vice versa. And each coach imparts something
additional to my skating ability.
That is not to suggest any lack of loyalty. My wife and I love our current
coaches, and will stay with them as long as we can. We have one private
quad coach, two others that co-teach our group quad dance lesson and who
provide individual coaching within that class, and one ice coach who is
teaching my wife and I basics, freestyle and dance. Through circumstance, I
recently switched ice coaches (who have somewhat different teaching styles
from each other). Both are excellent, but now my wife and I have the
opportunity to take lessons together and skate as an ice dance couple.
To the point about "visiting coaches", occassionally another skater, or an
instructor at a coffee club skating session, will offer yet another
suggestion. That suggestion may or may not be helpful; it could result in
a subtle improvement; or it could be a major breakthough on something that
was hanging us up.
- David
Joanna Tsang Ramberg
PLEASE, PLEASE, make sure your kids are wearing shoes with good cushion
and ankle support!!! It will save their backs in the long distant
future. Believe me!!! I did practice off ice jumps with my coach on
skating rink matts and my back was ACHING 15 minutes after doing those
exercises (because of my previous sciatica problem.) He has since
limited my time on working on jumps...well, at least on the floor
anyway. (Ironically, I don't have that type of problem on the ice. I
don't know if it's the ice or whether landing on the toe pick absorbs
a lot of the shock or what...) *confused*
Cheers,
Joanna
Isiafs5
>future. Believe me!!! I did practice off ice jumps with my coach on
>skating rink matts and my back was ACHING 15 minutes after doing those
>exercises (because of my previous sciatica problem.) He has since
>limited my time on working on jumps...well, at least on the floor
>anyway. (Ironically, I don't have that type of problem on the ice. I
>don't know if it's the ice or whether landing on the toe pick absorbs
>a lot of the shock or what...) *confused*
I had the same problem with off ice jumps, also on ice sometimes, too. Off ice
was worse since it is easier to get high and do more jumps. This was made
worse because of tramp and spring floor work that would make me unprepared for
the landings.
What solved my problem was listening to Lussi on the end of his jump tape
during the credits. He told the skater, "You can land hard or you can land
soft." Paraphrased: Pretend you are landing barefoot on a hot frying pan. How
would you land? Probably (laughing) very softly.
For some reason, this immediately solved my landing problem on hard floors,
especially on axels since they were my worst landings.
Joanna Tsang Ramberg
year. My primary coach knows about it and is cool with me having
another coach... He pointed out that he also takes lessons with two
coaches (one primary, one secondary when he's preparing for the
competitive season.) He says that sometimes you need another coach's
perspective to "get it!!!" He also mentioned that I'm a grown up...
and am smart enough to figure out what I need in my skating.
So far so good!!! He's approves of all the private coaches I've had
so far...he HIGHLY recommended my current slave driver!!! :-P
Guest coaches... well, I've had a few cases where a coach would make
one small suggestion and it really fixed my jumps...FWIW...
Cheers,
Joanna
Dale Johnson
They are effective at giving another perspective to a skater. They may spot
flaws that day-to-day coaching may miss... there are any number of other
benefits they may bring, depending upon their own skills. I think I have
mentioned this before here, but at the Snapple Skate with the Stars a few
years ago, Illia Kulik spent about 20 minutes with my granddaughter working
on entrance to spins and got her over the hump. Before this, she couldn't
spin for anything. She used the off ice spinning gadget, her coach was
working with her and nothing seemed to click with her. Then Illia worked
with her and managed to pull it all together in that 20 minute session. It
made the cost of the whole weekend worth it. At the time, she was not an
advanced skater. She was fairly low-level. I don't know if it was his
teaching technique or her awe of having an Olympic Gold medal winner showing
her how to skate but whatever it was, it worked. Her current coach is also
an Olympic Gold medalist and world champion and he has skaters fly in from
all over the country for 1/2 or 1 hour lessons quite often. This costs their
parents a great deal of money but he is effective as a coach and they come
away better skaters.
Now for the rink not allowing use of their off ice facilities, that is
unfortunately also too common. The rink we use doesn't allow for off-ice
training either. If you want to train off-ice, you have to go in the parking
lot. Why? Simple, they don't make any money off of it. Their hockey teams
can use them since it is part of the overall fees they pay but figure
skaters are given short shrift on use of any facilities. Non-staff coaches
are discouraged from using any of their facilities. The rink manager told us
that none of the students of our coach would be in the annual ice show so
long as she was the manager because he refused to turn over all of the money
he received from his jumps and spins class to the rink! He had to disband
the class since he would have had to work for free. That is unfortunate,
since some of these rinks have nice off ice facilities, but that is becoming
the norm. If they don't get all of the money, they would rather leave the
rooms empty than let others use them.
At another rink we used to use, they lost almost all of their coaches when
the rink manager gave the coaching position for their sync team to a girl
who was a student two years ago because she would work cheaper than the
other coaches on the staff. They lost their only USFSA sanctioned coach and
three coaches that had been there for as much as ten years. Now they have
ONE full time coach and one or two part time and they lost almost all of
their students when they fled to the rinks the former coaches went to.
There are a couple of rinks that have exercise facilities as part of them
and if you are a member of the exercise portion you can use it for off ice
training. Unfortunately they are few and far between. Then again, the
Russian national training facility doesn't have indoor training facilities
either. They have to train in the parking lot, unlike our national skaters
do.
I have just been so puzzled as to where they are getting these rink
managers. They don't seem to have any business sense, they seem to be
totally antagonistic toward figure skaters and sometimes I get the feeling
that they are trying to drive figure skaters completely out of their
facilities. I know that is the case at our current rink. Why else would they
make up new rules every week that make it harder and harder to skate? Now
they can't put their skates on anywhere but in the locker room, yet on ISI
skating school days I have to wade through 50-60 rugrats all putting their
skates on in the lobby? They can't practice their music unless the pro puts
up both driver's license AND car keys in return for the boom box and then
the pro has to supply the extension cords to plug it in. This at a facility
that just added a third rink that has to have cost many millions of dollars
yet has no built in sound system for the figure skating rink!
Chi-Town Dale
"RaisingTTT" <raisi...@aol.comstopit> wrote in message
news:20020315210800...@mb-mw.aol.com...
Isiafs5
>training either. If you want to train off-ice, you have to go in the parking
>lot. Why? Simple, they don't make any money off of it.
This is a non-issue for rinks that are run by city governments, such as, park
districts and recreation departments.
Doris Penndorf
difficulties that are being encountered at the local level.
RaisingTTT
>difficulties that are being encountered at the local level.
What is STAR?
rttt