[INFO] Wrestling TidBits - 04/06
Herb Kunze
- WrestleMania XI took place on Sunday. The reviews in the newsgroup
have been mostly disappointed and/or negative. Owen Hart & Yokozuna
defeated the Smoking Gunns to win the WWF Tag Titles. No other titles
changed hands. The only real surprise was Roddy Piper appearing to
referee the "I Quit" match, and even Piper's involvement had been
rumoured for quite some time.
There is a story about the Pamela Anderson deal (she would appear
in Shawn Michaels' corner) being quickly re-worked. Pam didn't travel
to the show alone; she had new hubby Tommy Lee in tow. Apparently
Shawn stayed in character (well, okay, Ric Flair's WWF character ;-))
and said he knew Pamela first and Tommy pounced on him, leading
to a quick script revision.
- As has been reported here already, Harley Race will be paid through
to the end of his contract (June) even though he won't be able to
work for WCW again after undergoing hip replacement surgery.
This is in strong contrast to how the company handled Ricky Steamboat's
back injury that barred him from future in-ring work. Steamboat was
willing and able to do any other type of work (managing, commentary,
agent), but the company just axed him. I had heard that Steamboat
was going to sue if things couldn't be settled nicely.
- There are reports that Dusty Rhodes is still employed by WCW and
that Dustin Rhodes is going to sure for wrongful dismissal.
- Rumours have Curt Hennig close to coming to an agreement with WCW
and Steve Williams close to coming to an agreement with the WWF.
Both would be great acquisitions of course, but seeing is believing.
- UFC is tomorrow night. They got a tournament underneath which includes
NWA champ Dan Severn and Royce Gracie vs. Ken Shamrock main. Here's
some interesting words from Karl Gotch, from an interview by Mike
Lano (Thanks Jason):
Lano: Some of my readers want you and Thesz to issue challenges to
Senior Helio Gracie.
Gotch: Okay. But they're a joke. I didn't watch the latest UFC ppv.
UWF and Pancrase are jokes too. I didn't know the Japanese
magazines are still printing photos of me with Funaki, because
I haven't seen him since you remember back three years ago. If
a guy like Shamrock can be in the tournament - you know what I
think of that. He did a few exercises with me - the only thing
that man knows is a syringe with steroids. He doesn't know
anything about holds. I've seen a few tapes of Gary Albright
- he's a heavy-set guy with good credentials. But when he gets
kicked, he falls on his back. He impresses me more than
Shamrock. But what I've seen of Gracie - they call it Jiu-Jitsu
- but it looks like Judo to me. Nothing else. He gets an armbar,
then a choke and then he tried a few times on the legs - that's
how Judo was in the old days - choking with the legs. I could
handle Judo men before, and I could handle old man Gracie now.
I didn't see Severn and Gracie, but Severn might be able to
handle Gracie.
- The WWF has "In Your House" on 05/14/95. This is the first of the
cheaper and shorter WWF PPVs. Tentative line-up has:
- Razor Ramon vs. Jeff Jarrett for the IC Title
The gimmick of this show is that the WWF will give a house away to
some lucky fan.
- WCW has Slamboree on 05/21/95. Tenative line-up includes:
- Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage vs. Vader & Ric Flair
- Sting vs. Big Bubba Rogers
- Kevin Sullivan vs. The Man With No Name
The main event may be affected since Vader's knees are apparently
acting up again.
- Interview: This is the seventh installment of the Bill Watts interview
which was published in the great sheet, The Wrestler Flyer, in 04/93.
(To people that missed earlier pieces of the interview, I don't keep
many wrestling files on-line. If we get a new ftp site, I'll take
the time to upload the different things that people frequently ask
me for.)
Clark: With Mid South, just in the wrestling aspect, you always
believed in an unpredictable and exciting style of wrestling. Was that
hard to do at WCW because of all the different channels you had to go
through before things could be carried out?
Watts: It was initially, number one. Number two, because of the
ability of the athletes. The athletes have lost the ability to do
their trade. Very few of them could actually execute and carry out
anything that was very difficult. Dusty told me, Ole told me, Mike
Graham even one time came in and said, "My God, Bill, those guys can't
do that." I said, "Anybody can do that." After it was over, he said,
"Didn't I tell you?" I said, "You're right." It was very frustrating.
So you had to go back to real basic things. We got the surprise and
the unpredictability back in certain instances. We had a lot of major
injuries. We lost The Steiners. We lost, due to personal problems,
Gordy and Jake the Snake. I mean, you didn't have a lot of great
leaders that could really execute things. That's why I was so excited
about getting Ric Flair back. Because Flair, no matter what, has a
tremendous personal pride in having the best match on the card.
Whereas, a lot of the guys just sat out there, they didn't give a
damn. When I started telling them they had to stay and watch the
matches they all got mad. In the old days where you were competing for
the top spot and your income was based upon what the company was
drawing, you watched the main events so you could outdo them. And
here's these pompous asses telling me, "Well, you know, we can't find
a place in the buildings where we can really watch a match without the
crowd hassling us." When we're not even drawing 25% of the building
full, these prima donnas can't find a place to watch so they can learn
and compete. When I was active in the business, when the buildings
were selling out, I could always find a place to watch what my
competition was doing because I was motivated. It's like Sting told me
one time, "Well, Bill, the business has changed since you were out of
wrestling." And I said, "You're right, we used to have to draw money.
" None of these guys have ever drawn any money. They all tell you how
much money they've drawn but they haven't drawn any money. That's what
TBS couldn't understand. I said, "If you clean house and get rid of
all of them, we're not any worse off. We could start over, because
nobody's drawing anything anyway. " So at least we were going out and
trying to give young guys a chance and trying to get some guys with
some athletic background instead of some guy that had gotten his
muscles out of a bottle and his attitude out of a chemical, that they
thought looked neat so they made him a wrestler.
Clark: Was there control from TBS about what was shown on WCW's
television, like violence or blood?
Watts: Not only that, but the leaks to the cable companies, the leaks
to the sheets, and everything else. That's why I started limiting who
was in my inner circle to three people, to try to shut down the leaks.
When the sheets were geting our booking sheets, you could look at the
deal at Halloween Havoc and realize that if Harley and Vader were
going to show up when they weren't booked, you knew something was
going to happen. It was just that the access to everything we did was
so public that it was hard to have surprises for everybody. But we
started getting a lot of unpredictability. We shocked some of the
athletes. The thing as Jake Roberts returned in Baltimore, that was
well done. Even the boys didn't know. When Vader beat Sting for the
first time with the world's title, nobody knew. Bagwell, in one town
where they had him go over Brian Pillman in about thirty seconds, he
could not believe it. Neither could Brian Pillman. Pillman saw the
reaction he got. Pillman is one of the kids that really developed an
open mind and was really willing to try stuff, and it was exciting to
watch him develop. Steve Austin was starting to get that way. And
these were kids that we had problems with when we first went there
because the guys would get these kids to carry the flag for shit that
they wanted to stir up. They would influence these kids the wrong way
because they don't know any better.
Clark: After dealing with Dusty Rhodes at WCW, did your opinion of him
change at all?
Watts: The first thing I had to do when I got there was to see where
Dusty's head was about me coming there, otherwise I'd have had to fire
him that day. There was no problem, Dusty just wanted a job. Dusty's
one of the most creative guys in wrestling, both as a wrestler and as
a booker, and as a television mind, and a pay-per-view mind. Dusty's
problem was, with all the stuff he had to produce, his follow-through
was lacking. In other words, he would not maintain continuity.
Continuity has always been his problem. And when you put him in a
situation where you're producing so much more, continuity is even a
bigger problem then. Dusty was just doing what was required of him. A
lot of people don't understand, the booker is the visible guy, so he
gets all the blame. But if Jim Herd walked in and said, "I want seven
new guys next week because we've got seven new dolls," Dusty had to go
get them. Dusty is a creative, creative guy. He loves this business.
We were building a staff around him to stop the mistakes and to
support the continuity. And with the people we were bringing into the
booking meeting, we were getting the ideas, the ideas were starting to
flow real good. We were out often times a year ahead on what we were
going to do. And then you'd have a guy get injured or something, gets
screwed up, and you'd have to revamp it. We weren't just booking day
to day, we had plenty of plans. We had nine guys out from one period
of time or another that were top guys in nine months. That's pretty
hard to overcome.
Clark: From your position as a promoter, how tough is it to find real
friends in the business that won't backstab you to further themselves7
Watts: That's always been in the wrestling business. That's in any
business, unfortunately. Loyalty is an old-fashioned trait that is not
really and truly respected or believed in today. I don't have a
problem uith the guys I was working with as far as what they were
doing. If Bill Shaw called Dusty up, he's going to cover Dusty. But
basically speaking, Dusty gave me everything he had. Jim Ross gave me
everything he had. If he got the chance he's going to put Jim Ross
over. Ole Anderson begged me for a job, and I gave him the job. I'm
disappointed in him because he went behind my back, and he knew what I
was doing was the right thing, but he wanted the money more. And he
saw he had an inside door. It probably wouldn't change what I was
going to do because I was looking to get out of there anyway. I just
don't like the way he did it or the fact that he hasn't returned my
calls. I called him twice to congratulate him on taking my position,
and he wouldn't return my call. Would I trust Ole again? No.
Clark: Are you upset that he was the man to take over your position?
Watts: No, somebody had to be there. I could care less, I was gone. I
don't like the way he did it, behind my back. The last two weeks I was
there I couldn't find him. When all of a sudden your television
directors are making independent edit decisions, overruling you, you
realize pretty quick that they've been told and they've seen no matter
what that I couldn't control them either. That's the game Bill Shaw
plays. He'd break the departments up and say, "I'll put this guy under
this guy." That's the same thing with Bob Dhue. Bob Dhue is no longer
in charge of everything up there. He's there to be sacrificed and
mobbed, in my opinion, also at this point. So Shaw's always going to
insulate himself That's the corporate game.
Clark: How did being at WCW change or effect the relationship that you
had built with Jim Ross over the years?
Watts: I don't think anything happened. I was overruled on Jim Ross,
that's one of the reasons I quit. Bill Shaw took him off the air.
That's to me the stupidist move they ever did. Jim Ross' 900 number
was doing $500,000 a year, and he was writing Missy Hyatt's number
that did $200,000 a year. And they haven't even touched that with
anybody's production sense. They tried to get Flair to pick it up, but
even Flair coming back couldn't pick up what Jim Ross' productivity
was there. Jim Ross was one of the most productive guys there. Jim
Ross was not only always well prepared as an announcer, he sat in on
the booking, he helped maintain continuity. I mean, this kid is a
complete kid. He was just all of a sudden axed. He was Vice President
of Television. The next thing he knew, he was, as an after thought,
told to report to Rob Garner, who he'd been trying to fire because he
wouldn't go to work. Jim was fucked. The way they play the corporate
game, they still pay you your money while they're fucking you. But
then Jim just finally said, "Hey, I'd better see what my options are,"
because he recognized the handwriting on the wall, too. So he called
Vince McMahon, and Vince McMahon said, "Boy, I'm glad to see you're
free. You're damn right, come to me." Jim's called me three or four
times. He called me during the whole process that he was going
through. At times (my position in the company caused our friendship to
suffer). At times I had to chew his ass when he'd screw up and get in
a rut. But hell, I'd done that all his life in the business, anyway.
At times there was strain, but Jim's really resourceful and doesn't
stay down. That just motivates Jim. He'll go to work and come in with
ten different new ideas. That doesn't keep Jim Ross down. Nothing's
going to keep Jim Ross down. And I told Vince McMahon when I talked to
him, I said, "You've really got a good man in Jim Ross." If Ted Turner
woke up to what was happening and said, "Gee, we've got to get this
straightened out," one of things for me to take a look at is the fact
that I don't have Jim Ross. Recause Jim and Dusty were the two most
important people I had there.
Clark: In early February, about a week before your resignation, some
of your power was diluted...
Watts: Oh yeah, but they'd been doing that all along, anyway. So then
Bill Shaw came with his new chain of command, and I thought his new
chain of command was fine. But I had already read the handwriting on
the wall. I wasn't going to stay. What their plans for me would have
been, I don't know. With them you could probably stay there as long as
you wanted to, as long as you kept your nose clean and said yes to the
right people, you could collect your check. But I never went over
there to find a job, I went over there to do a mission because I love
the business. I think that's where everybody loses it. I didn't apply
for this job, they called me, and I said, "No, I don't want to even
come talk to those idiots over there until they've convinced me new
people were involved that would give me autonomy." That's what I was
promised. The first three weeks I was there I wrote a game plan on how
to compete with Vince McMahon, and they rejected that. And then they
rejected every department head change I wanted to make in WCW. All
they wanted me to do was fire Dusty. And I didn't see any reason to
fire him until you had somebody better than he was. I wanted to reach
out and get everybody who had ability in wrestling and bring them in.
I was putting most of my money in the booking department.
Clark: Was your resignation mostly your decision or was it mostly
forced upon you because of the situation with Hank Aaron?
Watts: It wasn't forced on me at all. When Bill Shaw called me and Bob
to come over and talk about the Hank Aaron deal, Bob Dhue and I were
sitting in my office and I was telling Bob I was leaving. And Bob was
about to cry. Because even though he and I had had our problems, he
realized that I had never lied to him and that I knew what I was
doing. And he was real]y sad about it. But I said, "Bob, they're going
to get you, and I'm going on. I don't want to sit around and watch it.
And then Bill Shaw says, "What about the Hank Aaron deal?" I said,
"Well, Bill, first of all, that's bullshit and you know it." And he
said, "Yeah, I really know it, but it's kind of a corporate liability
right now because of Hank's position vith Marge Schott." I said,
"Well, it isn't a corporate liability." He said, "Why?" I said,
"Because I just told Bob I'm going on." And he said, "Well, are you
sure that's what you want to do?" And I said, "Yeah, if you all take
care of me." He said, "Well, what do you want?" I told him, and they
gave it to me.
Clark: How did you feel when you found out that Mark Madden (Pro
Wrestling Torch newsletter columnist and Pittsburgh Post Gazette
sportswriter) had faxed the interview in question to Hank Aaron?
Watts: Oh, well, it's something that if you were trying to sit snd
figure out what some scumbag would do, then you could figure out that
that's something a scumbag would do. My record in pro wrestling has
never been racist towards blacks. I have been more pro-Black than any
promoter/owner in the business. Mark Madden knows that as does
everybody in the sheets. He thinks he's a power broker. I think, to
tell you the truth, that Hank Aaron got way out on a limb on that
whole situation and that that was a manipulation by TBS and for
baseball. I tell you, in this country when vou don't have the right to
think what you want to think or say what you believe, you've got a lot
of problems in this country. If you think TBS is not racist, you're
naive, in my opinion. Do you think racial comments aren't made by TBS
executives behind closed doors? The difference is that Marge Schott
got brought to the front.
Clark: Do you feel Mark Madden basically did that out of spite?
Watts: What does he not do out of vindictiveness. I think he's a
little bit intoxicated about himself I think he thinks he's a lot more
important than he is. Here's a guy that wouldn't have the balls to say
anything like some of the things he said about Bruno Ssmmartino to his
face. If he wasn't hiding behind the production of suing Sammartino,
Sammartino would backhand him. To me Mark Madden, in my personal
opinion, if he was in the men's bathroom he'd be singing "Stranger in
Paradise." I mean, he's not what I call a real man. He's one of these
people that hide behind this power of the press to slander and to
viciously attack people. I have no personal respect for him at all. I
don't even know the guy. I've read enough of his articles to see that
he just writes whatever he thinks will get the reaction he wants,
without any, any consideration of how truthful it is. I was asked
about that article (that contained comments by Watts that were viewed
by some as racial) when I was being interviewed to be at WCW. And Bill
Shaw said that. That was part of his file that he had to build because
Bill Shaw never believed in what I was doing. He didn't understand it.
He thinks it's a widget business.
Clark: What have you been doing since you resigned?
Watts: I haven't been doing much of anything. I've been to the Grand
Caymans with a couple of my kids to go diving. I've been enjoying my
wife and family, and seeing friends in Tulsa. I'm just starting to get
bored enough now to start looking at several projects, but I haven't
picked out anything that I'm really going to devote all my time to.
Clark: Has anyone you worked with at WCW contacted you since you left
there?
Watts: Yeah, but we better not say much about that because they'd get
in trouble. They're scared. They are scared. It's almost like when you
fall out of favor at TBS, you've got the plague. Guys, that if you
scratched your ass, you're liable to scratch your eyes, all of a
sudden you can't find them. The people that count that are still there
are still my friends and still believe in what I was doing. Every
decision I made there wasn't the best decision. You could always go
back and probably do something a different way, but the overall
direction we were going in was the best thing for wrestling and would
have been the best thing for TBS. It would have given it stability.
So, I don't lose any sleep over that. I am glad I experienced
"corporate America" and the frustration. I think it gives me much more
empathy for our President of the United States who goes in with
probably a lot of things he thinks he can accomplish and then he finds
that there's so many people mith their own agendas and hidden agendas
that are fighting him tooth and nail behind his back, that he can't
really affect anything. I think that Ted has gotten so big that
there's a lot of people with their own agendas up there that certainly
aren't doing the things that are in the best interest of TBS. And
that's without a doubt.
Clark: Do you feel that you might have a problem working for a boss?
Watts: I've never had a problem working for a boss. See, that's
another one of those knocks. One of the most productive times of my
life was with Eddie Graham. He was a pleasure to work under. I got
along great with Roy Shires. I got along with Verne Gagne. He and I
had great arguments, but I had a deep respect for him and he had a
deep respect for me. I knew he was boss, I still would argue and fight
with him, and I think he appreciated it. He didn't want a "yes man."
"Yes men" really don't add a lot to your life. I'm not saying I
wouldn't work for somebody. I'm just saying I'm an entrepreneur. It's
real frustrating to see what needs to be done, and you can't do it.
Clark: Are you a much more happier and calmer person now?
Watts: God, yeah. Everything I said to you, that WCW was like a nine
month nightmare. That's what I told Bob Dhue, I said, "You know, Bob,
the business that you're in has to be fun. And how much fun are we
having? We haven't had any fun." Once or twice we'd go out and get
drunk after a show or something, but basically it's just been a
fuckin' nose-to-the-wall grindstone with everybody shooting at your
back. I had nine months of hell over there because I knew what I
needed to do and couldn't do it.
Clark: What other business ventures are you involved in?
Watts: I've got a little nutrition business that I like and just some
odds and ends. Omnitrition (nutrition company) is a really good
company, it did $125 million its third year. Our little
distributorship, even in the nine months we didn't actively work, it
has groun. I've given my wife the company, we started it together.
She's making good money out if it. I'm proud of her. I don't knou what
I'm going to do yet. It's time where I'm getting bored, so we'll see.
Clark: Looking back; on your reign at WCW, do you think it was a
mistake ever going there?
Watts: Yeah, it probably uas. I probably would have been a lot better
off to have never gone, because I wouldn't have had nine months of
that frustration. If I would have been given true autonomy, and I knew
it would be a battle, it could have proven real good for the business
and for TBS. But, that's neither here nor there. They've got their
side of the story and I've got mine, and they're the ones that call
the shots. But, a lot of those guys have been corporate guys all their
life. They just become power brokers. But, I don't knou if they've
ever really done annthing on their own. They're spending Ted's money.
- Booking Prediction Tourney: I need a match time for the LT vs. Bigelow
match before I can go ahead and score the WrestleMania card (I've put
out feelers for that time, so please don't flood me with it in e-mail).
Hopefully, I'll get this done over the weekend.
- WWW: This post is presented weekly, presumably with some short delay,
on Mark Long's r.s.p-w home page on the Web. That page contains a lot
of interesting wrestling info, so give it a try at:
http://www.luc.edu/~mlong/wrestling.html
- Videos: I have posted something about the availability of videos.
If you missed it, I'll send it to you in e-mail upon request. It
appears that the istrain.health.ufl.edu ftp site has been wiped
clean up r.s.p-w stuff and nobody knows what's going on.
Herb...
Evan Schlesinger
Herb Kunze <hek...@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>
> Here's
> some interesting words from Karl Gotch, from an interview by Mike
> Lano (Thanks Jason):
>
> Lano: Some of my readers want you and Thesz to issue challenges to
> Senior Helio Gracie.
> Gotch: Okay. But they're a joke. I didn't watch the latest UFC ppv.
> UWF and Pancrase are jokes too.
Ahhh, Karl Gotch. The world's most bitter old man.
> I didn't know the Japanese
> magazines are still printing photos of me with Funaki, because
> I haven't seen him since you remember back three years ago. If
> a guy like Shamrock can be in the tournament - you know what I
> think of that. He did a few exercises with me - the only thing
> that man knows is a syringe with steroids. He doesn't know
> anything about holds.
Hmmm. I guess Shamrock fooled us all.
> I've seen a few tapes of Gary Albright
> - he's a heavy-set guy with good credentials. But when he gets
> kicked, he falls on his back.
Considering Albright fights UWFI (worked), that might be a reason for him
falling on his back. Unless Gotch is privy to tapes of Albright in shoots.
> He impresses me more than
> Shamrock. But what I've seen of Gracie - they call it Jiu-Jitsu
> - but it looks like Judo to me. Nothing else. He gets an armbar,
> then a choke and then he tried a few times on the legs - that's
> how Judo was in the old days - choking with the legs.
Doesn't seem like he needs to do much else.
> I could
> handle Judo men before, and I could handle old man Gracie now.
Interesting. So he shouldn't have any problem making the challenge.
EVAN
No taglines necessary.
MikeS57620
It's my turn to be stupid. I know Gotch is Karl Istaz.
Is he related to Frank Gotch?
What titles, belts did he hold?
& is he such a god in Japan because of these credentials, er what?
& why is he such a prick?
RRussitano
He held a title in Japan and worked real stiff plus got a good push in
Japan so, he's a legend over there. He always thought of himself as a
"hooker"(someone who can shoot on someone to hurt them not just beat
them). He never got a push in America which is why he's the way he is:
bitter. He loves to Bruno bash which is obviously jealousy.
Dominic Macika
FWIW, Gotch did get mid-size pushes in America. What made him bitter is
that he had to play Russian and call himself Karol Kalmikoff to get them.
He also held the WWF tag title just before retiring under the Gotch name
along with Rene Goulet. He didn't just think of himself as a hooker, he
was. And he doesn't just Bruno bash. He'll bash just about anything
related to the state of today's wrestling if you give him a chance.
--
r.s.p-w FAQ via email: rspw...@grumpy.emich.edu, subject: "get FAQ"
"I did not make my reputation by saving souls. I made it by
ruining lives, by hurting innocent people, by taking young, impressionable
wrestlers and ruining them!" - Cactus Jack SMW TV 12/10/94
MikeS57620
>FWIW, Gotch did get mid-size pushes in America. What made him bitter is
>that he had to play Russian and call himself Karol Kalmikoff to get them.
>He also held the WWF tag title just before retiring under the Gotch name
>along with Rene Goulet. He didn't just think of himself as a hooker, he
>was. And he doesn't just Bruno bash. He'll bash just about anything
>related to the state of today's wrestling if you give him a chance.
Don't recall anyone working the whiff under that handle. How long did he
work in the states & where?
I'd appreciate the post on this.
Amdur - Jeffrey I.
: >FWIW, Gotch did get mid-size pushes in America. What made him bitter is
Karl Gotch was definitely tag team champ with Rene Goulet in the early
1970s (in fact, it was when Bill Cardille was still announcing the WWWF
Superstars show before Vince Jr. took over the chores,if I am not
mistaken. To this day, and I have been watching wrestling since 1957,
Karl Gotch had the classiest ring moves of any wrestler I have ever
seen.
Can anyone else verify if Karl Gotch and Karol Kalmikoff were the same
person? I remember seeing the Kalmikoff brothers on an oldies tape and
neither brotr looked like Karl Gotch.
--
------------------------------
Jeff Amdur
(Est-ce que je suis le seul a ecrire quelque chose en francais?)
Maintenant disponible a deux adresses: je...@aol.com jia...@umd5.umd.edu
RRussitano
WWWF tag title with Goulet. He never got more than a mid size push
because he had no charisma whatsoever. I'm sure he does rip on the state
of today's wrestling but I the Bruno bashing stands out because the core
of his complaint was that Bruno was the "weakest strongman I've ever
seen." After I heard that, everything else sort of goes in one ear and
out the other.