Expansion--My Picks
Trevor Peter Peterson
Given the unprotected lists on the NHL website I made up my list of who I
would pick. I did not take intop account Salary or Free-Agent Status.
Goal
----
Jim Carey
Ron Tugnutt
Darren Puppa
Andrei Trefilov
Mike Richter
Puppa would be the starter if he can remain healthy. He has proven that
he is capable of carrying a team with little in front of him.
Carey gives good youth and a guy who can give you outstanding
performances with some defensive help.
Tugnutt can get very hot at times.
Trefilov would make for an adequate bench warmer if any 2 of the top 3
were injured.
Richter will be signed by somebody else by the compensatory pick is worth
more than anything else available from the Rangers.
I would go with a Puppa-Carey combo for the season and trade Tugs unless
Puppa is unable to play due to injury.
Defense
-------
Bob Boughner
James Patrick
Uwe Krupp
Phillipe Boucher
Peter Popovic
Murray Baron
Bobby Dollas
Dana Murzyn
Al Iafrate
The big question marks here are Krupp (UFA who will sign elsewhere), and
Al Iafrate (injury trouble but still best available on Sharks). If Al
can play 60 games then he is a huge asset, if not it is no big loss as
Boucher has a big point shot and is ready to break-out if given a regular
spot. The rest are pretty must stay-at-home types who will be needed to
help out whoever they have in goal.
Forwards
--------
Scott Young Steven Rice
Benoit Hogue Doug Brown
Andrei Kovalenko Dave Gagner
Dave Andreychuk Tom Chorske
Patrik Juhlin Brett Hull
Pat Peake Derek King
Hull will sign elsewhere but again, the pick they get in compensation
will be worth more than anything else available. There is a lot of
offensive punch in the players taken with a couple of good defensive players.
Here would be my line-up if you had a healthy team.
Andreychuk-Gagner-Kovalenko
King-Hogue-Young
Chorske-Peake-Brown
Juhlin- -Rice
Iafrate-Boughner
Boucher-Popovic
Patrick-Dollas
Baron
Puppa
Carey
You would have to sign some veteran journeymen players to fill in in case
of injury but otherwise a good expansion line-up. I would give that team
30 wins during the season, maybe even a few more if they gel together.
Trevor
Dirk Hoag
In article <6moi5l$ge$1...@missing.its.to>, ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca says...
>
>Here would be my line-up if you had a healthy team.
>
>Andreychuk-Gagner-Kovalenko
>King-Hogue-Young
>Chorske-Peake-Brown
>Juhlin- -Rice
>
>Iafrate-Boughner
>Boucher-Popovic
>Patrick-Dollas
>Baron
>
>Puppa
>Carey
>
>You would have to sign some veteran journeymen players to fill in in case
>of injury but otherwise a good expansion line-up. I would give that team
>30 wins during the season, maybe even a few more if they gel together.
Why would Nashville pick ANY player that is due to become an unrestricted free
agent on July 1? Why draft a player whose rights you'll only hold for a matter
of days, when they can sign with anybody else and you don't get compensation
in return? You need to go back and reconsider...
--
Dirk Hoag
Casa Dominick's Hockey Club, #35
Reach me via ICQ: 13853801
or at _senna_@_umich_._edu_
****************************
Check out my NHL columns at
www.inthecrease.com, the top
hockey site on the WWW!
****************************
NJDevilCup
In article <YfRj1.880$24.50...@news.itd.umich.edu>, dontb...@emailing.here
(Dirk Hoag) writes:
>Why would Nashville pick ANY player that is due to become an unrestricted
>free
>agent on July 1? Why draft a player whose rights you'll only hold for a
>matter
>of days, when they can sign with anybody else and you don't get compensation
>in return? You need to go back and reconsider...
As he originally stated, FA status and salary WERE NOT considered. Just
the players he liked best who were unprotected.
I liked his picks - I haven't had a chance to sit down with the entire list
and make selections, but I imagine that they would be quite similar. When
you start to factor in trades, contracts, FA status, etc., it's gets too
confusing to be fun. Leave that to the pros.
Kuch
Go Devils!
**************************************************************************
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Go Minnesota Vikings! Go Gopher
Sgvette
>Puppa
>Carey
>
>You would have to sign some veteran journeymen players to fill in in case
>of injury but otherwise a good expansion line-up. I would give that team
>30 wins during the season, maybe even a few more if they gel together.
>
>
Trev, I'm with ya right up until the last name. Carey's done... take any
journeyman to back up (Tugnett's probably the best idea)
SG
Simon Juncal
Dirk Hoag wrote:
> Why would Nashville pick ANY player that is due to become an unrestricted free
> agent on July 1? Why draft a player whose rights you'll only hold for a matter
> of days, when they can sign with anybody else and you don't get compensation
> in return? You need to go back and reconsider...
No he doesn't... though he should probably consider taking a couple
more UFA's than he has.... picking a UFA like Richter or Hull can
get Poile a 2nd round pick as compensation for losing the free agent.
Now name _ONE_ guy (besides Richter) on the Rangers unprotected list
that is worth even a 3rd round pick, let alone a 2nd rounder....
:) see the logic?
> --
> Dirk Hoag
> Casa Dominick's Hockey Club, #35
> Reach me via ICQ: 13853801
> or at _senna_@_umich_._edu_
> ****************************
> Check out my NHL columns at
> www.inthecrease.com, the top
> hockey site on the WWW!
> ****************************
--
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Steve Olson
Simon Juncal wrote in message <359028C3...@erols.com>...
>Dirk Hoag wrote:
>> Why would Nashville pick ANY player that is due to become an unrestricted
free
>> agent on July 1? Why draft a player whose rights you'll only hold for a
matter
>> of days, when they can sign with anybody else and you don't get
compensation
>> in return? You need to go back and reconsider...
>
>No he doesn't... though he should probably consider taking a couple
>more UFA's than he has.... picking a UFA like Richter or Hull can
>get Poile a 2nd round pick as compensation for losing the free agent.
No, it can't. That's because Richter and Hull are UNRESTRICTED free agents.
Any team can sign them without having to give up anything in return. If
they were restricted free agents, *then* the team that signed them would
have to give up a draft pick or picks as compensation. Claiming Richter or
Hull would gain Poile nothing at all if they then signed for another team.
Which is exactly why the Rangers and Blues left those guys unprotected.
- Steve
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Simon Juncal
Here's my picks for what it's worth
G:
1 Mike Dunham NJ (obvious choice IMHO)
2 Daren Puppa* TB (got to take the chance)
3 Chris Terreri CHI
* John Vanbiesbrouck FLA (draft pick)
* Mike Richter NYR (draft pick)
(*or Mark Fitzpatrick either way a goalie from TB)
D:
1 Al Iafrate SJ (sentimental pick)
2 Bob Boughner BUF
3 Jason Bowen EDM
4 Philippe Boucher LOS
5 Frank Bialowas PHL
6 Peter Popovic MTL
7 Rob Zettler TOR
8 Adrian Aucoin VAN
F:
1 Scott Young ANA (Heard he's a group 5 FA in that case...
sub in Sanstrom)
2 Andre Roy BOS
3 Doug Brown DET
4 Paul Ranheim CAR
5 Warren Rychel COL
6 Greg Adams DAL
7 Claude Lapointe NYI
8 Pat Falloon OTT
9 Aaron Gavey CAL
10 Mark Janssens PHI
11 Ed Olczyk PIT
12 Brett Hull STL (for the pick)
13 Andrew Brunette WAS
User877845
> >Dirk Hoag wrote: >> Why would Nashville pick ANY player that is due to
> become an unrestricted free >> agent on July 1? Why draft a player
> whose rights you'll only hold for a matter >> of days, when they can
> sign with anybody else and you don't get compensation >> in return? You
> need to go back and reconsider...
Wrong. Reconsider this: If Nashville loses a UFA that they pick in the
expansion draft, they get a compensatory 2nd round pick in the draft. The
smart philosophy is to consider building a new team with a bundle of 2nd round
draft picks rather than with fogies or journeymen hacks. Signing UFAs you have
no intention of signing is a good way of stocking up on 2nd rounders. There
is, of course, a limit for Nashville, who can choose perhaps 6 UFAs in the
Expansion draft. This would only be one part of their team building strategy,
but a very smart strategy.
Trevor Peter Peterson
Dirk Hoag (dontb...@emailing.here) wrote:
: Why would Nashville pick ANY player that is due to become an unrestricted free
: agent on July 1? Why draft a player whose rights you'll only hold for a matter
: of days, when they can sign with anybody else and you don't get compensation
: in return? You need to go back and reconsider...
The reason is b\c on those teams that I picked UFA from (rangers, Blues,
and Avalanche), the compensatory draft pick Nashville will receive for
somebody else signing their player is worth more to them than any of the
other players available are. I thought I has mentioned that before? Oh
well.
Trevor
Trevor Peter Peterson
NJDevilCup (njdev...@aol.com) wrote:
: As he originally stated, FA status and salary WERE NOT considered. Just
: the players he liked best who were unprotected.
Actually, they were considered, just not to the degree that some people
think it should be. As Nashville GM Poile stated (and I happen to agree
with), if he gets to a team and there is nothing worthwile picking except
an UFA, he will take that player b\c the compensatory pick the league
would award for losing a player to free-agency is worth more than any of
the other players available. That is why I did not consider free-agency
when making a decision on who to take.
As for salary, it was not a consideration at all mainly b\c Poile also
said this would not be a concern when making picks. If a player is too
expensive for the team to retain (and I cannot see why that would be),
Poile said he would trade that player and likely get more in return for
him than the next player on the list would be worth.
: I liked his picks - I haven't had a chance to sit down with the entire list
: and make selections, but I imagine that they would be quite similar. When
: you start to factor in trades, contracts, FA status, etc., it's gets too
: confusing to be fun. Leave that to the pros.
Actually, those would be my picks considering everything else. At least
at the end of the expansion draft it would be. Trades after the fact
would not be taken into consideration.
Most lists had one player that just jumped out right at you (Buffalo's
Boughner, Carolina's Rice, and Boston's Carey are a few examples). They
were a fe exceptions though.
Detroit: Detroit had left several good veteran d-men that I considered
for a few moments but when I considered that having some good defensive
forwards would be key to the new team, Brown just had to be taken
(Gilchrist was a consideration but Brown is supposed to be a better
locker-room guy).
Phoenix: Actually, I am going to change my pick here. Mark Jansens
would be my pick and not Murray Baron. The main reason for this is that
Jansens is an awesome face-off man and a good hard fore-checker. He
would make a good 4th line center who could do a lot of penalty killing
for me and take as many of the key face-offs as possible.
Washington: There were lots of good choices to be had from this team.
Hunter entered my thoughts immediately, especially after his great play
in the playoffs. However, there is talk he is thinking of retiring and
being picked by an expansion team would probably sinch it. That
considered, Peake is still fairly young and if not for injury troubles
would have made an impact in the NHL by now in my opinion. If he can
stay healthy for a change he will look good on the 2cnd line.
Trevor
Simon Juncal
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
> Pat Peake
LOL, you must not know the story here, Peake is the most luckless
walking example of Murphy's law ever to sign an NHL contract...
the guy might never skate a regular shift again... after heel
surgery, he had an ankle tendon snap... after another surgery he's
apparently skating again... but for how long?
I really feel for the guy, he's talented but just totally (almost
comedy of errors style) injury prone. Still I hope he can work
back in, and salvage a career.
I'd look to see Poile take Brunette or Tik if he thinks he can
trade him for someone better than Bruno.
devs...@my-dejanews.com
Do you want to challenge for oldest team??
I saw very little in the way of muscle which every team needs at least one at
forward, preferably two (I know, our designated (Oliwa) sucks I hoped w/
Lemaire semi-gone he'd be on the unprotected list) and not much in the way of
personality other than Iafrate - boot stores stay open 24 hours or install
metal gates. (I believe you were taking it for granted that Hull would go
elsewhere.)
This team has to be sold to the fans so it needs some muscle, it needs some
young guys, it needs some good looking guys and it needs some personalities.
Thanks for leaving us Dunham, but hands off Andreychuk!
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devs...@my-dejanews.com
In article <359028C3...@erols.com>,
sju...@erols.com wrote:
> Now name _ONE_ guy (besides Richter) on the Rangers unprotected list
> that is worth even a 3rd round pick, let alone a 2nd rounder....
> :) see the logic?
>
I couldn't even name one player on the Rangers' protected list who is worth a
third round pick.
devs...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6mpa9n$gf1$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>,
"Steve Olson" <Olson....@nospam.btinternet.com> wrote:
> No, it can't. That's because Richter and Hull are UNRESTRICTED free agents.
> Any team can sign them without having to give up anything in return. If
> they were restricted free agents, *then* the team that signed them would
> have to give up a draft pick or picks as compensation. Claiming Richter or
> Hull would gain Poile nothing at all if they then signed for another team.
> Which is exactly why the Rangers and Blues left those guys unprotected.
>
They do get a pick based upon what the player signs for ($s wise), but it is a
pick from the league not a pick taken away from another team. The NHL site
or the ESPN (don't remember which) have stories on the Richter thing which
is a done deal according to Smith and Poile.
Trevor Peter Peterson
Steve Olson (Olson....@nospam.btinternet.com) wrote:
: No, it can't. That's because Richter and Hull are UNRESTRICTED free agents.
: Any team can sign them without having to give up anything in return. If
: they were restricted free agents, *then* the team that signed them would
: have to give up a draft pick or picks as compensation. Claiming Richter or
: Hull would gain Poile nothing at all if they then signed for another team.
: Which is exactly why the Rangers and Blues left those guys unprotected.
WRONG! The league awards any team losing an UFA with a 2cnd round pick.
The team signing him does not give up anything, but the NHL awards the
pick as a bonus pick.
Trevor
Trevor Peter Peterson
devs...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
: Do you want to challenge for oldest team??
: I saw very little in the way of muscle which every team needs at least one at
: forward, preferably two (I know, our designated (Oliwa) sucks I hoped w/
: Lemaire semi-gone he'd be on the unprotected list) and not much in the way of
: personality other than Iafrate - boot stores stay open 24 hours or install
: metal gates. (I believe you were taking it for granted that Hull would go
: elsewhere.)
I picked all the muscle a team needs by taking Rice and Boughner. Also,
in a later post, I decided that picking Jansens instead of Baron would be
optimal. Besides, goons are a dime a dozen and can be easily had after
the draft.
: This team has to be sold to the fans so it needs some muscle, it needs some
: young guys, it needs some good looking guys and it needs some personalities.
The unrestricted free-agents will bring the picks that will bring in the
young players. Besides, taking a player just b\c he is young is very unwise.
: Thanks for leaving us Dunham, but hands off Andreychuk!
Andreychuk is the one pick I garauntee will be made by Poile. Any other
pick from the Devils would be foolhardy.
Trevor
Trevor Peter Peterson
Simon Juncal (sju...@erols.com) wrote:
: Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
: > Pat Peake
: LOL, you must not know the story here, Peake is the most luckless
: walking example of Murphy's law ever to sign an NHL contract...
: the guy might never skate a regular shift again... after heel
: surgery, he had an ankle tendon snap... after another surgery he's
: apparently skating again... but for how long?
I know all about this but I figured his talent would be worth taking the
chance that he MIGHT remain healthy. I personally believe he could be a
60-70 pt player if he could play a full season. On top of that he is a
very coachable player from what I have heard and read.
: I really feel for the guy, he's talented but just totally (almost
: comedy of errors style) injury prone. Still I hope he can work
: back in, and salvage a career.
I agree wholeheartedly.
: I'd look to see Poile take Brunette or Tik if he thinks he can
: trade him for someone better than Bruno.
This is the one team where I really have no idea who Poile will take. I
personally would take the chance on Peake though, but that is just me.
Trevor
Trevor Peter Peterson
Simon Juncal (sju...@erols.com) wrote:
: Here's my picks for what it's worth
: G:
: 1 Mike Dunham NJ (obvious choice IMHO)
Why is he the obvious choice? Why would you have Dybham for goal when
you could take Andreychuk at forward and take Carey for goal?
: 2 Daren Puppa* TB (got to take the chance)
: 3 Chris Terreri CHI
Between Terreri or Trefilov there is little to choose. I just decided to
go with youth.
: * John Vanbiesbrouck FLA (draft pick)
Why would you take Beezer when you could take a #1 center in Gagner?
: * Mike Richter NYR (draft pick)
: (*or Mark Fitzpatrick either way a goalie from TB)
: D:
: 1 Al Iafrate SJ (sentimental pick)
: 2 Bob Boughner BUF
: 3 Jason Bowen EDM
Why Bowen and not Kovalenko?
: 4 Philippe Boucher LOS
: 5 Frank Bialowas PHL
Why Bialowas?
: 6 Peter Popovic MTL
: 7 Rob Zettler TOR
Why on earth would you take Zettler over King?
: 8 Adrian Aucoin VAN
Aucoin-Murzyn, does not really matter b\c neither would really play much
if at all. I went with Murzyn b\c of the experience factor.
: F:
: 1 Scott Young ANA (Heard he's a group 5 FA in that case...
: sub in Sanstrom)
I would not wnt Sandstrom. I would go with Young no matter what.
: 2 Andre Roy BOS
Carey is much more valuable than Roy.
: 3 Doug Brown DET
: 4 Paul Ranheim CAR
Ranheim is a defensive forward I decided to go with Rice who is a good
power-forward and can score goals. Rice is also pretty decent defensively.
: 5 Warren Rychel COL
Rychel is pretty useless, I go with Krupp to get the pick.
: 6 Greg Adams DAL
Adams would be a decent pick if he were not so injury prone. Hogue is a
center and more durable as well as a pretty good player.
: 7 Claude Lapointe NYI
Chorske is younger a a very good defensive forward who can score the odd
goal as well.
: 8 Pat Falloon OTT
I have been very unimpressed with his brutal work ethic over the past
couple of seasons. Tugnutt would be a much better pick.
: 9 Aaron Gavey CAL
Not bad but James Patrick could be more useful in my opinion.
: 10 Mark Janssens PHI
I changed my mind and now agree with this pick.
: 11 Ed Olczyk PIT
Again I think Dollas would be more useful.
: 12 Brett Hull STL (for the pick)
: 13 Andrew Brunette WAS
I would take the chance with Peake but Brenette is also a good choice.
A couple of notes:
1) That team would get squashed on a regular basis with little or no
chance of winning. Goals against would come in huge bunches no matter
who you had in net.
2) Picking players just b\c they are young does not get a team anywhere.
Pick the best team possible and let your ameteur draft picks work their
way into the line-up with the veterans over time.
Trevor
Sami Kallio
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
> : D:
> : 3 Jason Bowen EDM
>
> Why Bowen and not Kovalenko?
I would take Kovalenko.
> : 4 Philippe Boucher LOS
Karalahti?
> : 4 Paul Ranheim CAR
>
> Ranheim is a defensive forward I decided to go with Rice who is a good
>
> power-forward and can score goals. Rice is also pretty decent
> defensively.
Ranheim
> : 11 Ed Olczyk PIT
>
> Again I think Dollas would be more useful.
Hrkaz?
Bonsignore from TB?
--
Sami Kallio
Sami Kallio
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
> Washington: There were lots of good choices to be had from this team.
>
> Hunter entered my thoughts immediately, especially after his great
> play
> in the playoffs. However, there is talk he is thinking of retiring
> and
> being picked by an expansion team would probably sinch it. That
> considered, Peake is still fairly young and if not for injury troubles
>
> would have made an impact in the NHL by now in my opinion. If he can
> stay healthy for a change he will look good on the 2cnd line.
How about Tikkanen? There you have a great defensive forward.
--
Sami Kallio
NJDevilCup
In article <6mpqmb$1eo$1...@missing.its.to>, ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Trevor
Peter Peterson) writes:
>Simon Juncal (sju...@erols.com) wrote:
>: Here's my picks for what it's worth
>: G:
>: 1 Mike Dunham NJ (obvious choice IMHO)
>
>Why is he the obvious choice? Why would you have Dybham for goal when
>you could take Andreychuk at forward and take Carey for goal?
From a Devil's point-of-view, I would rather see them take Andreychuk.
Have you seen him play this season? YUCK, plain and simple. It's
one thing to create chances and not score (Arnott), but Andy was not
even creating chances, let alone scoring. It seems like his broken
ankle last season really has brought his successful career to quick halt.
15 goals just does not justify a 7-figure contract.
I don't think Dunham's so obvious. He thinks he's great, but when he
is in there (granted it's hard to be a backup and play once every 3
weeks) he looks only average. He whines to the press about not
getting the time he "deserves", but when you're backing up an elite
goalie and giving up 3-4 goals when you do get to play, you don't
deserve much time.
I still think he has lots of potential if given the #1 job somewhere, but
I'd rather see someone other than the Devils give him that chance. If
he sticks around, I hope he shuts up.
Trevor Peter Peterson
Sgvette (sgv...@aol.com) wrote:
: Trev, I'm with ya right up until the last name. Carey's done... take any
: journeyman to back up (Tugnett's probably the best idea)
Why would you say Carey is done? The only reason he played in the minors
this season is b\c they wanted to send him down for a conditioning
assignment and he refused to go (this was after he had come back from an
injury). When he finally did report he stayed there for a while b\c he
was being punished.
BTW, I did take Tugnutt too more of a just in case Puppa is not healthy
enough to play.
Trevor
Trevor Peter Peterson
Sami Kallio (sami_...@rocketmail.com) wrote:
: > : 4 Philippe Boucher LOS
: Karalahti?
I think Boucher is the obvious choice b\c he has a good point shot,
skates well, and has some decent size. With some good coaching he could
become a pretty good d-man.
: Hrkaz?
Hrkac is too old and having a younger player in his place would be better
for an expansion team.
: Bonsignore from TB?
You kinda HAVE to go with Puppa even though he has injury troubles. He
is one of those rare goalies that can carry a team (probably why he has
back problems now). :-)
Trevor
Trevor Peter Peterson
Sami Kallio (sami_...@rocketmail.com) wrote:
: How about Tikkanen? There you have a great defensive forward.
The only problem is that he is almost as old as Hunter and has two wonky
knees.
Trevor
Mark V. Pelton
After the way Tikkanen played against the Red Wings.... I'd leave
him alone. He hurt his team more than he helped them.
Richard Farley
In article <6mr1ke$apn$2...@missing.its.to>, ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
(Trevor Peter Peterson) wrote:
> I think Boucher is the obvious choice b\c he has a good point shot,
> skates well, and has some decent size. With some good coaching he could
> become a pretty good d-man.
As a Kings fan, I would absolutely LOVE IT if Nashville took Boucher.
This is not because Boucher is a bad player (although he is not a
particularly good one either), but the Kings went and left Craig Johnson
unprotected. I am not going to go deep into why I think C. Johnson should
have been protected, but suffice to say that I (and hopefully the Kings
organization) would be MUCH happier with C. Johnson on the roster than
Phillipe Boucher ...
... especially considering that Phillipe Boucher was often a healthy
scratch and, hopefully, Jan Vopat or Sean Blanchard can serve an
equivalent role (you know, that all important 24th man).
RF
Simon Juncal
devs...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
<various snipage>
> I couldn't even name one player on the Rangers' protected list who is worth a
> third round pick.
LOL, fair enough, now that you mention it neither can I ;-)
Simon Juncal
Well it's a gutsy pick I'll give you that :) I seriously think,
because of Trotz and Gardner's familiarity with Bruno that they'll
take him, if they don't pick him, then I look for them to deal for
him and another player or pick sending a decent backup goalie
(which Poile's going to be stocked with) to the Caps. They know his
upside, and they know he's not going to be out-skating a Bondra or
Bure any time soon. By the same token they know he's an asset in
front of the net (and behind it), especially on the PP.
Simon Juncal
> : G:
> : 1 Mike Dunham NJ (obvious choice IMHO)
>
> Why is he the obvious choice? Why would you have Dybham for goal when
> you could take Andreychuk at forward and take Carey for goal?
I just think the guy can start, I think he's one of the best
goalies in the draft. re: Carey, see below, but I think he's
as DONE as Blaine Lacher is.
> : * John Vanbiesbrouck FLA (draft pick)
>
> Why would you take Beezer when you could take a #1 center in Gagner?
You're right, on second thought I'd probably use my Edmonton pick
on Cujo for the draft pick and take a player from FLA.
> : * Mike Richter NYR (draft pick)
>
> : (*or Mark Fitzpatrick either way a goalie from TB)
>
> : D:
> : 1 Al Iafrate SJ (sentimental pick)
> : 2 Bob Boughner BUF
> : 3 Jason Bowen EDM
>
> Why Bowen and not Kovalenko?
Why either and not a 2nd round pick for Cujo ;)
> : 4 Philippe Boucher LOS
> : 5 Frank Bialowas PHL
>
> Why Bialowas?
He fit my defense man Quota, and he's an up and coming goon
it was either Frank "the animal" Bialowas or Kordic, what's
not to like about a player with the nick name "the animal"?
<snip>
> Aucoin-Murzyn, does not really matter b\c neither would really play much
> if at all. I went with Murzyn b\c of the experience factor.
And I Aucoin, for the youth and mobility factor.
> : F:
> : 1 Scott Young ANA (Heard he's a group 5 FA in that case...
> : sub in Sanstrom)
>
> I would not wnt Sandstrom. I would go with Young no matter what.
Agreed, but one way or another Poile's going to need goals...
> : 2 Andre Roy BOS
>
> Carey is much more valuable than Roy.
Take a look at my sig, as a Caps fan I've seen Carey enough to
truly believe that he was all "confidence high" and bluster.
Once shooters realized that his flopping was more about panic
and bad lateral movement, than spectacular saves: They just held
the puck a little longer and waited for the top shelf to open up.
I've heard from more than one source that Carey was considering
retirement to go back to school, after he had a bad injury, so who
even knows if he's going to play again?
As far as Roy goes I saw a little of him against the Caps this
year and liked what I saw.
> : 5 Warren Rychel COL
>
> Rychel is pretty useless, I go with Krupp to get the pick.
He's a decent Cement head, but you're probably right, depending
on how much Krupp gets signed for - and thus what round pick he
brings.
> I have been very unimpressed with his brutal work ethic over the past
> couple of seasons. Tugnutt would be a much better pick.
Nahhhh, you can only pick 5 goalies, Tugnutt is definitely not
going to be one of mine :)
> A couple of notes:
>
> 1) That team would get squashed on a regular basis with little or no
> chance of winning. Goals against would come in huge bunches no matter
> who you had in net.
To be honest I don't think any combination is going to keep
that from happening (at least for a while).
> 2) Picking players just b\c they are young does not get a team anywhere.
> Pick the best team possible and let your ameteur draft picks work their
> way into the line-up with the veterans over time.
If a player is only going to be around or effective for 1 or 2 more
seasons or even 3 more, he's basically (with a few exceptions) a
wasted pick. If he wont bring anything but "future considerations"
or a "conditional pick" then he's a warm body who will be leaving
a big hole in your line-up in a year or two. Though I agree you need
to take the best player or most valuable commodity (picks) available
you also need to make sure that you don't have 9 players retiring in
a two year span of time. I mean if value to the team was the only
consideration then on Ottawa I'd take Cunneyworth, but of course
he's not going to be playing much longer.
With all that said I also don't know every team in the league like
it was my own, and I sure don't have the scouting that Poile does :)
Sami Kallio
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
>
> Sami Kallio (sami_...@rocketmail.com) wrote:
> : How about Tikkanen? There you have a great defensive forward.
>
> The only problem is that he is almost as old as Hunter and has two wonky
> knees.
I believe he is 33 (or 34) and Hunter is closer to 40? I don't think his
knees are the issue anymore.
--
Sami Kallio
Trevor Peter Peterson
Simon Juncal (sju...@erols.com) wrote:
: You're right, on second thought I'd probably use my Edmonton pick
: on Cujo for the draft pick and take a player from FLA.
What about Kovalenko from Edmonton? He can score goals which is
something an expansion team really needs.
: Why either and not a 2nd round pick for Cujo ;)
I think Kovalenko is worth more thn a 2cnd round pick myself.
: He fit my defense man Quota, and he's an up and coming goon
: it was either Frank "the animal" Bialowas or Kordic, what's
: not to like about a player with the nick name "the animal"?
Hmmm, I think Juhlin could be something. I picked better defenseman from
other teams I think.
: And I Aucoin, for the youth and mobility factor.
Like I said, it really matter not who you take, neuither will play much
if at all.
: Agreed, but one way or another Poile's going to need goals...
Yes, which is why I would take Andreychuk, Gagner, and Kovalenko.
: Take a look at my sig, as a Caps fan I've seen Carey enough to
: truly believe that he was all "confidence high" and bluster.
: Once shooters realized that his flopping was more about panic
: and bad lateral movement, than spectacular saves: They just held
: the puck a little longer and waited for the top shelf to open up.
I think he has the reflexes necessary to be a good goalie. I agree that
he needs to work on his style somewhat but still has MUCH more value than
Roy.
: I've heard from more than one source that Carey was considering
: retirement to go back to school, after he had a bad injury, so who
: even knows if he's going to play again?
He'll play again if drafted.
: As far as Roy goes I saw a little of him against the Caps this
: year and liked what I saw.
I thought very little of him myself. Players like him are a dime a dozen.
: He's a decent Cement head, but you're probably right, depending
: on how much Krupp gets signed for - and thus what round pick he
: brings.
Krupp will sign for about 2.5 or so, which should bring a 2cnd round pick.
: Nahhhh, you can only pick 5 goalies, Tugnutt is definitely not
: going to be one of mine :)
I would make him my 3rd pick (goalie that is). Mainly b\c on some of the
other teams that you picked goalies from I saw better position players
than on the Sens and Tugnutt is a fairly good goalie himself.
: To be honest I don't think any combination is going to keep
: that from happening (at least for a while).
I think the team I picked was pretty sound defensively.
: If a player is only going to be around or effective for 1 or 2 more
: seasons or even 3 more, he's basically (with a few exceptions) a
: wasted pick. If he wont bring anything but "future considerations"
: or a "conditional pick" then he's a warm body who will be leaving
: a big hole in your line-up in a year or two. Though I agree you need
: to take the best player or most valuable commodity (picks) available
: you also need to make sure that you don't have 9 players retiring in
: a two year span of time. I mean if value to the team was the only
: consideration then on Ottawa I'd take Cunneyworth, but of course
: he's not going to be playing much longer.
Guys like Andreychuk, Gagner, and Patrick and the such are big
commodities at the trading deadline for contending teams looking to
replace injured players or fill a hole or two. As an expansion team you
pick those players and then if you are out of the playoffs at the time
you trade them for the youth or draft picks.
Trevor
Trevor Peter Peterson
Sami Kallio (sami_...@rocketmail.com) wrote:
: I believe he is 33 (or 34) and Hunter is closer to 40? I don't think his
: knees are the issue anymore.
They are an issue. He skates with braces on his kness and I have heard
he takes cortinzone shots before a game.
Trevor
Simon Juncal
> : on Cujo for the draft pick and take a player from FLA.
>
> something an expansion team really needs.
>
> : Why either and not a 2nd round pick for Cujo ;)
>
> I think Kovalenko is worth more thn a 2cnd round pick myself.
The guy seems to only show up once every three or four seasons (in
other words he's had two good seasons), what can I say, Poile might
take him, but I think you could get an average Plumber to put 30
or 40 point seasons up on a consistent basis, at about half the cost.
and none of the coaching problems (or season long slumps).
> : He fit my defense man Quota, and he's an up and coming goon
> : it was either Frank "the animal" Bialowas or Kordic, what's
> : not to like about a player with the nick name "the animal"?
>
> Hmmm, I think Juhlin could be something. I picked better defenseman from
> other teams I think.
Taking this stuff a bit too seriously aren't you? They're just
armchair picks dude... Considering Poile's access to
real scouting and the deals he'll likely have worked out already,
I seriously doubt his team will look a whole lot like either one
of our lists.
my_...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6moi5l$ge$1...@missing.its.to>,
ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Trevor Peter Peterson) wrote:
> Goal
> ----
> Jim Carey
> Ron Tugnutt
> Darren Puppa
> Andrei Trefilov
> Mike Richter
>
Mike Dunham will be picked for certain. There's no logic to picking Dave
Andreychuk at all, he's expensive, can't score without a setup man, and has
at the most one full season left in him. Dunham makes virtually nothing.
Mikhail Shtalenkov is an excellent back-up, and better trade bait than Young,
who, like Sandstrom, was a bust in Anaheim.
Jim Carey is a tough call. Poile is apparently interested in Mike
Sullivan (LW). If Carey had no contract I would pick him, but
as it is..
The Lightning is (are?) praying that Puppa gets picked, I'm not sure he
will because, if injured, he has no trade value at all and still a hefty
contract. He hasn't carried his team for a few years.
Of course, there's absolutely no one on their roster worth picking.
>
> Defense
> -------
> Bob Boughner
Dixon Ward.
> James Patrick
Joel Bouchard.
> Uwe Krupp
I think Tom Fitzgerald wouldn't be a bad pick.
> Here would be my line-up if you had a healthy team.
>
> Andreychuk-Gagner-Kovalenko
> King-Hogue-Young
> Chorske-Peake-Brown
> Juhlin- -Rice
>
> Iafrate-Boughner
> Boucher-Popovic
> Patrick-Dollas
> Baron
>
Here's mine, more of a prediction than what I personally would do.
They have to pick 13 forwards.
Brunette Gagner D.Ward
M.Sullivan C.Lapointe D.Brown
Kovalenko G.Adams Fitzgerald
D.King Ysebaert Rice
Juhlin
Popovic - Baron
Bouchard - (McSorley or Iafrate)
Boucher - Murzyn
Olausson - Todd Gill
Dunham, Shtalenkov, Trefilov, (Richter), Tugnutt
Trevor Peter Peterson
Simon Juncal (sju...@erols.com) wrote:
: The guy seems to only show up once every three or four seasons (in
: other words he's had two good seasons), what can I say, Poile might
: take him, but I think you could get an average Plumber to put 30
: or 40 point seasons up on a consistent basis, at about half the cost.
: and none of the coaching problems (or season long slumps).
I agree that Kovalenko is a head case but the potential goals he could
bring if he plays up to his potential is worth the risk in my opinion.
: Taking this stuff a bit too seriously aren't you? They're just
: armchair picks dude... Considering Poile's access to
: real scouting and the deals he'll likely have worked out already,
: I seriously doubt his team will look a whole lot like either one
: of our lists.
I am not really taking it too serious but I do think it is fun to debate
why we would make the picks we make. The armchair thing you know. :-)
Trevor
Trevor Peter Peterson
my_...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
: Mike Dunham will be picked for certain. There's no logic to picking Dave
: Andreychuk at all, he's expensive, can't score without a setup man, and has
: at the most one full season left in him. Dunham makes virtually nothing.
I think Andreychuk could score some goals again if he gets out of the
stifeling defensive system of Jersey. Dunham I think is highly overated
and that there are much better goalies out there than are already proven
players.
: Mikhail Shtalenkov is an excellent back-up, and better trade bait than Young,
: who, like Sandstrom, was a bust in Anaheim.
I think the draft pick that the Preds would get for Young is worth more
than Shtalenkov.
: Jim Carey is a tough call. Poile is apparently interested in Mike
: Sullivan (LW). If Carey had no contract I would pick him, but
: as it is..
I am not too high on Sullivan when Carey is available. Carey has proven
he can play in the NHL and with some work he can do it again.
: The Lightning is (are?) praying that Puppa gets picked, I'm not sure he
: will because, if injured, he has no trade value at all and still a hefty
: contract. He hasn't carried his team for a few years.
: Of course, there's absolutely no one on their roster worth picking.
If he is cannot play b\c of the injury insurance will cover it, bascially
meaning that there is little risk in taking him.
: >
: > Defense
: > -------
: > Bob Boughner
: Dixon Ward.
Why take Ward over Boughner? You can take two Ward clones in Chorske
from the Islanders and Brown from Detroit and there is no other d-man
available that is as good defensively as Bob.
: > James Patrick
: Joel Bouchard.
I will not argue.
: > Uwe Krupp
: I think Tom Fitzgerald wouldn't be a bad pick.
Ya, but would you get a 2cnd round pick for Fitzgerald like you would for
Krupp?
Trevor
my_...@my-dejanews.com
Here they are, your 1998-1999 NASHVILLE PREDATORS!!!
Chris Armstrong, d, Florida.
Blair Atcheynum, rw, St. Louis.
Joel Bouchard, d, Calgary.
Bob Boughner, d, Buffalo.
Paul Brousseau, rw, Tampa Bay.
Doug Brown, rw, Detroit.
Andrew Brunette, lw, Washington.
Frederic Chabot, g, Los Angeles.
Patrick Cote, lw, Dallas.
J.J. Daigneault, d, N.Y. Islanders.
Jeff Daniels, lw, Carolina.
Craig Darby, lw, Philadelphia.
Mike Dunham, g, New Jersey.
Doug Friedman, c, Edmonton.
Tony Hrkac, c, Pittsburgh.
Al Iafrate, d, San Jose.
Greg Johnson, c, Chicago.
Uwe Krupp, d, Colorado.
Denny Lambert, lw, Ottawa.
Mike Richter, g, N.Y. Rangers.
Mikhail Shtalenkov, g, Anaheim.
John Slaney, d, Phoenix.
Mike Sullivan, c, Boston.
Tomas Vokoun, g, Montreal.
Scott Walker, c, Vancouver.
Rob Zettler, d, Toronto.
Quite a few surprises to me, especially in picking Armstrong from Florida
(instead of Gagner or Muller), Vokoun from Mtl (what's wrong with Popovic?)
and Friedman from Edmonton instead of Kovalenko. Ah yes and Patrick
Cote from Dallas when they could have had Greg Adams or Benoit Hogue.
Blair Atcheynum was a smart pick,
Now let's see how well I predicted them in my post yesterday.
In article <6mujb9$dpm$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
my_...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
> Here's mine, more of a prediction than what I personally would do.
> They have to pick 13 forwards.
>
> Brunette Gagner D.Ward
> M.Sullivan C.Lapointe D.Brown
> Kovalenko G.Adams Fitzgerald
> D.King Ysebaert Rice
> Juhlin
>
> Popovic - Baron
> Bouchard - (McSorley or Iafrate)
> Boucher - Murzyn
> Olausson - Todd Gill
>
> Dunham, Shtalenkov, Trefilov, (Richter), Tugnutt
>
Yee-haw, I got 2/13 on the forwards, 2/8 on d-men and 3/5 on goalies.
And here's what their actual lines might be:
Brunette Sullivan Atcheynum
Lambert Johnson D.Brown
Daniels Walker Brousseau
Darby Hrkac Friedman
Iafrate Daigneault
Bouchard Boughner
Zettler Slaney
Dunham, Shtalenkov
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John Crocetti
I was also really surprised with the pick of Vokoun instead of Popovic.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a side deal in place to
protect Popovic. Atcheynum may turn out to be a real steal in this
draft as well, but the oft-heard rumor is that the Blues had a
pre-existing deal as well to protect McLennan. Nashville's trades over
the next 24-48 hours should be very instructive as to what deals were in
place and what Poile's true plans are.
John
John Crocetti
There was a fairly informative radio show in Nashville tonight with
Predators head coach Barry Trotz. He didn't let out all the secrets of
the expansion draft, obviously, but among the tidbits he did let slip:
The Vokoun pick was part of a pre-arranged deal with Montreal.
Nashville will get another player from the Habs as part of the deal.
The Predators evaluated the talent of both Dallas and Flordia as being
"spent out" -- either because of age or salary or a combination of both,
and thus went with youth and/or cheapness.
The Iafrate pick surprised a number of people. The story goes that
Nashville now holds an option on his contract which they will not pick
up. They expect Al and his agent to come to Nashville and negotiate a
new contract at substantially less than his current $1.8M.
Detroit apparently offered Poile a "backup goaltender and a draft pick"
for the Predators not to take Doug Brown. Obviously, that offer was
rejected.
There are still several more deals in addition to the ones mentioned.
Most of the pre-arranged stuff will be finalized/announced after this
weekend's entry draft (presumably, some may involve picks). We can look
for Poile to continue trading throughout the summer.
John
Trevor Peter Peterson
: Chris Armstrong, d, Florida.
Stupid pick.
: Blair Atcheynum, rw, St. Louis.
Could be OK. My opinion is that the 2cnd pick for Hull signing with
somebody else would have been worth more but Poile must think otherwise.
: Joel Bouchard, d, Calgary.
OK. I myself would have went with the vet Patrick to teach the youngins.
: Bob Boughner, d, Buffalo.
The one player I KNEW he would take. There really was no other choice.
: Paul Brousseau, rw, Tampa Bay.
Huh? Brosseau in my opinion is a career minor leaguer who only played
with Tampa b\c how shitty they are.
: Doug Brown, rw, Detroit.
I figured they would go with him (as would I have), but there was always
the possibility of Gilchrist, Macoun, or Rouse.
: Andrew Brunette, lw, Washington.
Cannot go wrong with him.
: Frederic Chabot, g, Los Angeles.
Dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
: Patrick Cote, lw, Dallas.
Wow, another silly pick. Poile obviously has no interest in winning this
year.
: J.J. Daigneault, d, N.Y. Islanders.
Chorske was available, what was Piole thinking?
: Jeff Daniels, lw, Carolina.
This was THE absolutely stupidest pick. Rice and\or Ranheim would have
been MUCH better picks.
: Craig Darby, lw, Philadelphia.
I can live with this one although I think Juhlin would have been a better
pick.
: Mike Dunham, g, New Jersey.
I understand the reasoning but disagree with it.
: Doug Friedman, c, Edmonton.
I dunno...
: Tony Hrkac, c, Pittsburgh.
The closest thing the Preds have to a #1 center, and it ain't very close.
: Al Iafrate, d, San Jose.
I agree.
: Greg Johnson, c, Chicago.
Not bad.
: Uwe Krupp, d, Colorado.
No choice but him.
: Denny Lambert, lw, Ottawa.
Huh? Tugnutt would have been a MUCH, MUCH better pick.
: Mike Richter, g, N.Y. Rangers.
Duh. Anybody with a brain would have made this choice.
: Mikhail Shtalenkov, g, Anaheim.
It was a bad team to have to pick from.
: John Slaney, d, Phoenix.
I would have taken Janssens and so should Poile have.
: Mike Sullivan, c, Boston.
He is not a bad player but Carey would have been MUCH better.
: Tomas Vokoun, g, Montreal.
Again, stupid pick I think.
: Scott Walker, c, Vancouver.
Well, he was picking from Vancouver you know...
: Rob Zettler, d, Toronto.
Bad d-man, bad pick.
: Quite a few surprises to me, especially in picking Armstrong from Florida
: (instead of Gagner or Muller), Vokoun from Mtl (what's wrong with Popovic?)
: and Friedman from Edmonton instead of Kovalenko. Ah yes and Patrick
: Cote from Dallas when they could have had Greg Adams or Benoit Hogue.
I couldn't agree more.
: And here's what their actual lines might be:
: Brunette Sullivan Atcheynum
: Lambert Johnson D.Brown
: Daniels Walker Brousseau
: Darby Hrkac Friedman
Hrkac will be the #1, Sullivan #3 and Walker #4.
: Iafrate Daigneault
: Bouchard Boughner
: Zettler Slaney
: Dunham, Shtalenkov
That team SUCKS and will be lucky to win 15 games. All I can say is no
wonder the Caps fired Pool.
Trevor
John Crocetti
It turns out, most of the picks you (and most people) believe are stupid
involved deals Poile made with other teams. Some of the deals look
pretty good as listed below. I found this list in Larry Wigge's column
in the sporting news (online)
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
>
> my_...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> : Here they are, your 1998-1999 NASHVILLE PREDATORS!!!
>
> : Chris Armstrong, d, Florida.
>
> Stupid pick.
Maybe, but based on Barry Trotz's comments last night, I'm guessing
there was something in the contracts of Gagner, Carkner, etc. that made
them less than desirable. Besides, Nashville has to fill their minor
league affiliate, too.
> : Blair Atcheynum, rw, St. Louis.
>
> Could be OK. My opinion is that the 2cnd pick for Hull signing with
> somebody else would have been worth more but Poile must think otherwise.
This may be the best deal Poile made. By agreeing not to take Jamie
McLennan, Nashville gets: Atcheynum, Darren Turcotte (C), and the
Blues' highest compensatory pick in 1999 (should be a second rounder
with Hull, Courtnall, and Duchesne out there). If by chance, all three
should sign, Nashville gets the Blues' second round pick in 2000.
> : Joel Bouchard, d, Calgary.
>
> OK. I myself would have went with the vet Patrick to teach the youngins.
To each his own. However, by agreeing not to take one of Calgary's
goalies, the Flames are sending Jim Dowd (C) to the Preds.
> : Bob Boughner, d, Buffalo.
>
> The one player I KNEW he would take. There really was no other choice.
There was Dixon Ward....but this isn't a bad choice at all.
> : Paul Brousseau, rw, Tampa Bay.
>
> Huh? Brosseau in my opinion is a career minor leaguer who only played
> with Tampa b\c how shitty they are.
Well, there wasn't too much else out there for Nashville to take. And
besides, the Predators may not be much better than Tampa next year (but
God, do I hope they are). Anyway, he probably won't play for the Preds
anyway...but he's got a small contract and can learn to enjoy Milwaukee.
> : Doug Brown, rw, Detroit.
>
> I figured they would go with him (as would I have), but there was always
> the possibility of Gilchrist, Macoun, or Rouse.
The story goes that Detroit offered Nashville a backup goalie (Hodson,
I'm assuming) and a draft pick not to take Brown. I think it was smart
to reject that offer.
> : Andrew Brunette, lw, Washington.
>
> Cannot go wrong with him.
> : Frederic Chabot, g, Los Angeles.
>
> Dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Yeah, I'm not to thrilled with this either. But, for picking Chabot
instead of Galley, etc. Nashville gets: Jan Vopat and Kimmo Timonen. I
think it also counts against the "future considerations" Nashville is
paying the Kings for Marian Cisar. Anyway, I'm not sure that Chabot,
Vopat, and Timonen are worth giving up Galley, but if one of them
develops, it will turn out to be a good deal. Here's hoping.
> : Patrick Cote, lw, Dallas.
>
> Wow, another silly pick. Poile obviously has no interest in winning this year.
Poile's building off a 4-5 year plan. I'm not so sure the Cote pick was
bad. Nashville needed some muscle, and the best enforcers in the league
that many were expecting to be exposed weren't. While Dallas had a lot
of tempting names, they're getting older and they're very expensive.
Looking over these picks, cheapness was a common theme. I'm betting
that they're saving money to go after a free agent that can score. That
would certainly give the team a different look.
> : J.J. Daigneault, d, N.Y. Islanders.
>
> Chorske was available, what was Piole thinking?
Chorske's numbers aren't what they used to be. I would have been happy
with him, but Daigneault has better speed which the Predators are going
for. You would too if you were in the same division as Detroit and St.
Louis. (Ouch, thinking of that reminds me of how painful next season
will be.)
> : Jeff Daniels, lw, Carolina.
>
> This was THE absolutely stupidest pick. Rice and\or Ranheim would have
> been MUCH better picks.
It's hard to argue with you on this one. But, I'm guessing they went
for cheap once again. How's his speed compared to Rice and Ranheim?
> : Craig Darby, lw, Philadelphia.
>
> I can live with this one although I think Juhlin would have been a better
> pick.
Ah, but there was a deal here too: for taking Darby instead of whomever
(Wigge lists Coffey--but that must be a misprint, otherwise I'll laugh),
the Predators get: Dominic Roussel (G), Jeff Staples (D), and a seventh
round pick in Saturday's draft. I think that's much better than Juhlin,
but I still can't figure out who they were trying to protect.
> : Mike Dunham, g, New Jersey.
>
> I understand the reasoning but disagree with it.
All of Nashville is hoping that you're wrong. Otherwise next season is
going to make Tampa Bay's look like fun.
> : Doug Friedman, c, Edmonton.
>
> I dunno...
Me neither. He had some good games, but it's definately a work in
progress.
> : Tony Hrkac, c, Pittsburgh.
>
> The closest thing the Preds have to a #1 center, and it ain't very close.
I'm guessing this is where they'll try and get a free agent--the center
position. They could also use another right wing.
> : Al Iafrate, d, San Jose.
>
> I agree.
Funny, they struck a deal on this one too. For not taking Granato, they
get forward Ville Peltonen as well. The real kicker in all of this is
that Iafrate's contract is up and Nashville won't take the option.
Instead, they're going to renegotiate a new contract at a smaller
salary. This could end up being a good deal for them....especially if
he can stay healthy. If not, at least there's insurance.
> : Greg Johnson, c, Chicago.
>
> Not bad.
Yeah, he'll get some goals. And for not taking Terrari, Chicago is
going to ship Sergei Krivokrasov (RW) to Nashville. I think that's a
pretty good deal.
> : Uwe Krupp, d, Colorado.
>
> No choice but him.
If only Nashville had a prayer of signing him. Poile hinted at the news
conference that there was going to be a trade involving Krupp. If not,
he should make for a 3rd round draft pick next year.
> : Denny Lambert, lw, Ottawa.
>
> Huh? Tugnutt would have been a MUCH, MUCH better pick.
I thought so too...but they used up their other open goaltender slots on
deals (Vokoun & Chabot) or draft picks (Richter). So, since they
couldn't take a goalie, Lambert was probably the best of what was left.
> : Mike Richter, g, N.Y. Rangers.
>
> Duh. Anybody with a brain would have made this choice.
Good thing then, huh? :)
> : Mikhail Shtalenkov, g, Anaheim.
>
> It was a bad team to have to pick from.
Well, he was the only thing on the exposed list that had any value.
He'll be a strong #2 goalie though. Could be traded.
> : John Slaney, d, Phoenix.
>
> I would have taken Janssens and so should Poile have.
I would have too. But, Slaney was a Poile draft pick and knows the
Predators coaches. I guess we'll see if he develops.
> : Mike Sullivan, c, Boston.
>
> He is not a bad player but Carey would have been MUCH better.
Again, with the deals they made on goalies, there were no available
slots. Sullivan was easily the best of what was left.
> : Tomas Vokoun, g, Montreal.
>
> Again, stupid pick I think.
Too early to tell, I think. The Montreal farm system has a history of
producing outstanding goalies. However, there was deal made here. For
taking Vokoun instead of Popovic (I assume), Nashville will also get
Sebastien Bordeleau (C). This is definately a calculated risk! But
Vokoun did very well last year in the minors and he's only 21. We'll
have to wait a while to see whether this was a good move.
> : Scott Walker, c, Vancouver.
>
> Well, he was picking from Vancouver you know...
He was never given much of a chance with the Canucks. I figure he'll be
so thrilled to get out of Keenan's doghouse that he can't help but
improve. Otherwise, you're right about the Vancouver part.
> : Rob Zettler, d, Toronto.
>
> Bad d-man, bad pick.
It's either love-him-or-hate-him with Zettler, isn't it? I've never
seen anyone neutral with regard to Zettler. It's known that the
Predator scouts were very high on him. They saw a lot more Toronto
games than I did, so it's hard for me to complain.
Well, at least Poile was honest when he said Nashville would probably be
the worst team in the NHL next year. But there's a lot of youth and I
can see how 4-5 years from now this team could be pretty good. In any
event, I doubt the roster we see for the Predators come opening day is
going to look much like this anyway. I think we can expect a lot of
these players to be moved. Should be interesting to see how things
shake out.
John
P.S. I saw someone translate a Finnish newspaper yesterday that said
Poile had signed a couple of Finnish players to free agent contracts.
He has a history of bringing in good european talent (Bondra, for
example). We'll wait and see if the reports are accurate.
Simon Juncal
John Crocetti wrote:
> Well, at least Poile was honest when he said Nashville would probably be
> the worst team in the NHL next year. But there's a lot of youth and I
> can see how 4-5 years from now this team could be pretty good. In any
> event, I doubt the roster we see for the Predators come opening day is
> going to look much like this anyway. I think we can expect a lot of
> these players to be moved. Should be interesting to see how things
> shake out.
The wild card is Dunham, if he lives up to his potential, him and
that relatively solid defense could keep the team afloat. assuming
they come close to something like a team chemistry at some point
in the season.
> John
>
> P.S. I saw someone translate a Finnish newspaper yesterday that said
> Poile had signed a couple of Finnish players to free agent contracts.
> He has a history of bringing in good european talent (Bondra, for
> example). We'll wait and see if the reports are accurate.
And Pivonka, Kristich, Zednik, Gonchar and (you'll see) Svejkovsky &
Bulis. He's also got an eye for D-men (Langway trade, who knew at the
time?) Hatcher, Stevens, (and sooner or later) Witt and Baumgartner
NJDevilCup
In article <3594E6B3...@erols.com>, Simon Juncal <sju...@erols.com>
writes:
>The wild card is Dunham, if he lives up to his potential, him and
>that relatively solid defense could keep the team afloat. assuming
>they come close to something like a team chemistry at some point
>in the season.
You got that right. Dunham is an extremely confident (too overconfident,
IMO, for a guy who played once a month or so) goalie who understudied
in a great system.
Problem is, Nashville is not going to give him the support defensively
that Brodeur receives in NJ. And Mikey has problems with rebounds.
But I think given the chance to finally hold a #1 position will do wonders
for him, and he could emerge as one of the next great goaltenders.
On the flipside, he really seems to be fragile mentally. I heard so many
interviews over the last 2 years that were nothing more than Mikey
whining publically for more playing time. Now, I think it's good to want
to contribute, but a "me, me, me" attitude gets you nowhere.
If someone (and I don't see anyone on Nashville's roster thus far) beats
him out for the #1 slot next year, Mikey's confidence might be shattered,
ala Blaine Lacher (where is he, by the way? How many more goalies
are the Bruins going to screw up this decade?). Because, Mikey, if you
can't win the #1 job on the worst team in hockey, maybe you just weren't
meant to play more than 8 games a year.
D Gour
John Crocetti wrote:
>
> I was also really surprised with the pick of Vokoun instead of Popovic.
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a side deal in place to
> protect Popovic. Atcheynum may turn out to be a real steal in this
> draft as well, but the oft-heard rumor is that the Blues had a
> pre-existing deal as well to protect McLennan. Nashville's trades over
> the next 24-48 hours should be very instructive as to what deals were in
> place and what Poile's true plans are.
>
> John
And you're right with the side deal involving Vokoun. He was traded back to Montreal
for Sebastien Bordeleau. Now Montreal cannot lose a goalie in next year's
expansion draft.
Just as the Predators have no ideas of keeping Iafrate or Krupp. They will get
the compensation draft picks for 'losing' their free agents. (Although, Iafrate's
contract apparently has weird clauses that any new team can deem him too expensive,
effectively 'firing' him and re-negotiating his contract.)
St.Louis also had a deal protecting their goalies, so the Blues sent Turcotte
and a draft pick to Nashville.
I imagine there are a ton of side deals still to be announced. Should be a fun draft
day.
--denis
Jonas Ohlsson
Nashville has also signed two european players,
named Ville Peltonen and Patric Kjellberg.
They both play in the swedish elite league.
Here's some stats about them:
NAME GP G A P +/- PIM
Ville Peltonen 45 22 29 51 +11 44
Patric Kjellberg 46 30 18 48 +28 16
Ville led the Swedish elite league in points.
Patric led the league in goals, plus/minus,
and also got an award similar to the Lady Byng trophy
for gentlemanly conduct.
Trevor Peter Peterson
John Crocetti (croc...@home.com) wrote:
: Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
: > my_...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
: > : Here they are, your 1998-1999 NASHVILLE PREDATORS!!!
: >
: > : Chris Armstrong, d, Florida.
: >
: > Stupid pick.
: Maybe, but based on Barry Trotz's comments last night, I'm guessing
: there was something in the contracts of Gagner, Carkner, etc. that made
: them less than desirable. Besides, Nashville has to fill their minor
: league affiliate, too.
There would have to be something in his contract to not have taken Gagner
b\c he would have given Nashville an instant #1 center.
: > : Blair Atcheynum, rw, St. Louis.
: >
: > Could be OK. My opinion is that the 2cnd pick for Hull signing with
: > somebody else would have been worth more but Poile must think otherwise.
: This may be the best deal Poile made. By agreeing not to take Jamie
: McLennan, Nashville gets: Atcheynum, Darren Turcotte (C), and the
: Blues' highest compensatory pick in 1999 (should be a second rounder
: with Hull, Courtnall, and Duchesne out there). If by chance, all three
: should sign, Nashville gets the Blues' second round pick in 2000.
Now that I see the whole deal it obviously is better than what I would
have went for.
: > : Joel Bouchard, d, Calgary.
: >
: > OK. I myself would have went with the vet Patrick to teach the youngins.
: To each his own. However, by agreeing not to take one of Calgary's
: goalies, the Flames are sending Jim Dowd (C) to the Preds.
Still would have gotten Dowd if they had taken Patrick...
: > : Bob Boughner, d, Buffalo.
: >
: > The one player I KNEW he would take. There really was no other choice.
: There was Dixon Ward....but this isn't a bad choice at all.
When you compare Boughner to Ward there is no choice. Bob is a WAY
better pick.
: > : Paul Brousseau, rw, Tampa Bay.
: >
: > Huh? Brosseau in my opinion is a career minor leaguer who only played
: > with Tampa b\c how shitty they are.
: Well, there wasn't too much else out there for Nashville to take. And
: besides, the Predators may not be much better than Tampa next year (but
: God, do I hope they are). Anyway, he probably won't play for the Preds
: anyway...but he's got a small contract and can learn to enjoy Milwaukee.
Exactly. Taking a chance on Puppa would have been much better.
: > : Doug Brown, rw, Detroit.
: >
: > I figured they would go with him (as would I have), but there was always
: > the possibility of Gilchrist, Macoun, or Rouse.
: The story goes that Detroit offered Nashville a backup goalie (Hodson,
: I'm assuming) and a draft pick not to take Brown. I think it was smart
: to reject that offer.
I agree with you.
: > : Frederic Chabot, g, Los Angeles.
: >
: > Dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
: Yeah, I'm not to thrilled with this either. But, for picking Chabot
: instead of Galley, etc. Nashville gets: Jan Vopat and Kimmo Timonen. I
: think it also counts against the "future considerations" Nashville is
: paying the Kings for Marian Cisar. Anyway, I'm not sure that Chabot,
: Vopat, and Timonen are worth giving up Galley, but if one of them
: develops, it will turn out to be a good deal. Here's hoping.
A gamble on his part I think.
: > : Patrick Cote, lw, Dallas.
: >
: > Wow, another silly pick. Poile obviously has no interest in winning this year.
: Poile's building off a 4-5 year plan. I'm not so sure the Cote pick was
: bad. Nashville needed some muscle, and the best enforcers in the league
: that many were expecting to be exposed weren't. While Dallas had a lot
: of tempting names, they're getting older and they're very expensive.
: Looking over these picks, cheapness was a common theme. I'm betting
: that they're saving money to go after a free agent that can score. That
: would certainly give the team a different look.
It was just that Poile said salary was not a sticky point for him
deciding to pick a player or not.
: > : J.J. Daigneault, d, N.Y. Islanders.
: >
: > Chorske was available, what was Piole thinking?
: Chorske's numbers aren't what they used to be. I would have been happy
: with him, but Daigneault has better speed which the Predators are going
: for. You would too if you were in the same division as Detroit and St.
: Louis. (Ouch, thinking of that reminds me of how painful next season
: will be.)
I would take Chorske b\c he is better for the team defensively even as a
forward. On top of that he is an experienced player who probabl;y is
good in the dressing room.
: : > : Jeff Daniels, lw, Carolina.
: >
: > This was THE absolutely stupidest pick. Rice and\or Ranheim would have
: > been MUCH better picks.
: It's hard to argue with you on this one. But, I'm guessing they went
: for cheap once again. How's his speed compared to Rice and Ranheim?
He is 30 and not a very good player compared to Rice.
: > : Craig Darby, lw, Philadelphia.
: >
: > I can live with this one although I think Juhlin would have been a better
: > pick.
: Ah, but there was a deal here too: for taking Darby instead of whomever
: (Wigge lists Coffey--but that must be a misprint, otherwise I'll laugh),
: the Predators get: Dominic Roussel (G), Jeff Staples (D), and a seventh
: round pick in Saturday's draft. I think that's much better than Juhlin,
: but I still can't figure out who they were trying to protect.
Well, I am not too sure. I think Juhlin would be better.
: > : Mike Dunham, g, New Jersey.
: >
: > I understand the reasoning but disagree with it.
: All of Nashville is hoping that you're wrong. Otherwise next season is
: going to make Tampa Bay's look like fun.
Ya, well, 15 wins is a goal of Poile's that will be REALLY hard to get.
Washington's record for futility in a season is in serious jepardy of
falling unless this team gets better in a hurry.
: > : Doug Friedman, c, Edmonton.
: >
: > I dunno...
: Me neither. He had some good games, but it's definately a work in
: progress.
I'll reserve judgement for a while on him.
: > : Tony Hrkac, c, Pittsburgh.
: >
: > The closest thing the Preds have to a #1 center, and it ain't very close.
: I'm guessing this is where they'll try and get a free agent--the center
: position. They could also use another right wing.
But who is available? There really is not much out there to sign.
: > : Al Iafrate, d, San Jose.
: >
: > I agree.
: Funny, they struck a deal on this one too. For not taking Granato, they
: get forward Ville Peltonen as well. The real kicker in all of this is
: that Iafrate's contract is up and Nashville won't take the option.
: Instead, they're going to renegotiate a new contract at a smaller
: salary. This could end up being a good deal for them....especially if
: he can stay healthy. If not, at least there's insurance.
I would have taken Iafrate regardless. Its a risk taken with how often
he is injured but the payoff would be so huge if it works out.
: > : Greg Johnson, c, Chicago.
: >
: > Not bad.
: Yeah, he'll get some goals. And for not taking Terrari, Chicago is
: going to ship Sergei Krivokrasov (RW) to Nashville. I think that's a
: pretty good deal.
Yup, works out good.
: > : Uwe Krupp, d, Colorado.
: >
: > No choice but him.
: If only Nashville had a prayer of signing him. Poile hinted at the news
: conference that there was going to be a trade involving Krupp. If not,
: he should make for a 3rd round draft pick next year.
He'll sign foir around 2 or 2.5 mil so whatever draft pick that will get
Poile...
: > : Denny Lambert, lw, Ottawa.
: >
: > Huh? Tugnutt would have been a MUCH, MUCH better pick.
: I thought so too...but they used up their other open goaltender slots on
: deals (Vokoun & Chabot) or draft picks (Richter). So, since they
: couldn't take a goalie, Lambert was probably the best of what was left.
I would have taken Tugnutt over Stalenkhov easily.
: > : Mike Richter, g, N.Y. Rangers.
: >
: > Duh. Anybody with a brain would have made this choice.
: Good thing then, huh? :)
I would have laughed at Poile if he had taken anybody else.
: > : Mikhail Shtalenkov, g, Anaheim.
: >
: > It was a bad team to have to pick from.
: Well, he was the only thing on the exposed list that had any value.
: He'll be a strong #2 goalie though. Could be traded.
I still say Tugnutt is better.
: > : John Slaney, d, Phoenix.
: >
: > I would have taken Janssens and so should Poile have.
: I would have too. But, Slaney was a Poile draft pick and knows the
: Predators coaches. I guess we'll see if he develops.
I doubt it. The only thing Slaney will do is make Dunham nervous every
time John i on the ice.
: > : Mike Sullivan, c, Boston.
: >
: > He is not a bad player but Carey would have been MUCH better.
: Again, with the deals they made on goalies, there were no available
: slots. Sullivan was easily the best of what was left.
Probably.
: > : Tomas Vokoun, g, Montreal.
: >
: > Again, stupid pick I think.
: Too early to tell, I think. The Montreal farm system has a history of
: producing outstanding goalies. However, there was deal made here. For
: taking Vokoun instead of Popovic (I assume), Nashville will also get
: Sebastien Bordeleau (C). This is definately a calculated risk! But
: Vokoun did very well last year in the minors and he's only 21. We'll
: have to wait a while to see whether this was a good move.
Bordeleau is a good player though. I think he will contribute
immediately with Nashville.
: > : Scott Walker, c, Vancouver.
: >
: > Well, he was picking from Vancouver you know...
:
: He was never given much of a chance with the Canucks. I figure he'll be
: so thrilled to get out of Keenan's doghouse that he can't help but
: improve. Otherwise, you're right about the Vancouver part.
: > : Rob Zettler, d, Toronto.
: >
: > Bad d-man, bad pick.
: It's either love-him-or-hate-him with Zettler, isn't it? I've never
: seen anyone neutral with regard to Zettler. It's known that the
: Predator scouts were very high on him. They saw a lot more Toronto
: games than I did, so it's hard for me to complain.
Well, I saw him on the ice a lot (unfortunetly we get Toronot shoved down
our throats all the time), but I am not too sure you could call what he
does playing...
: Well, at least Poile was honest when he said Nashville would probably be
: the worst team in the NHL next year. But there's a lot of youth and I
: can see how 4-5 years from now this team could be pretty good. In any
: event, I doubt the roster we see for the Predators come opening day is
: going to look much like this anyway. I think we can expect a lot of
: these players to be moved. Should be interesting to see how things
: shake out.
Well, in my opinion there is very little from the expansion draft that
will be around the first time this team makes the playoffs. I am
thinking that 30 pts and\or 15 wins will be lofty goals that will be hard
to obtain.
: P.S. I saw someone translate a Finnish newspaper yesterday that said
: Poile had signed a couple of Finnish players to free agent contracts.
: He has a history of bringing in good european talent (Bondra, for
: example). We'll wait and see if the reports are accurate.
He sign Kjellberg, a former Hab.
Trevor
John Crocetti
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
> : > : Paul Brousseau, rw, Tampa Bay.
> : >
> : > Huh? Brosseau in my opinion is a career minor leaguer who only played
> : > with Tampa b\c how shitty they are.
>
> : Well, there wasn't too much else out there for Nashville to take. And
> : besides, the Predators may not be much better than Tampa next year (but
> : God, do I hope they are). Anyway, he probably won't play for the Preds
> : anyway...but he's got a small contract and can learn to enjoy Milwaukee.
>
> Exactly. Taking a chance on Puppa would have been much better.
Except that you'd have to pay him. And that salary I think makes him a
little unpalatable to an expansion team. Plus, with the limited
goaltender slots...
Poile has said in the local paper that there were a couple "throw away"
picks. It's easy to see how Tampa Bay would fit into that category. I
guess that if you're going to take a risk, going with the cheap guy that
*may* be able to score goals in the future seems wise.
> : > : Patrick Cote, lw, Dallas.
> : >
> : > Wow, another silly pick. Poile obviously has no interest in winning this year.
>
> : Poile's building off a 4-5 year plan. I'm not so sure the Cote pick was
> : bad. Nashville needed some muscle, and the best enforcers in the league
> : that many were expecting to be exposed weren't. While Dallas had a lot
> : of tempting names, they're getting older and they're very expensive.
> : Looking over these picks, cheapness was a common theme. I'm betting
> : that they're saving money to go after a free agent that can score. That
> : would certainly give the team a different look.
>
> It was just that Poile said salary was not a sticky point for him
> deciding to pick a player or not.
Yeah, I know he said that, but should we believe him? Nashville does
not have the economic resources of the Ranger, Flyers, Avs, etc. At
least not yet. Besides, when healthy, Cote fills a role that the
Predators will definately need next year. And I think he could be
traded pretty easily.
> : : > : Jeff Daniels, lw, Carolina.
> : >
> : > This was THE absolutely stupidest pick. Rice and\or Ranheim would have
> : > been MUCH better picks.
>
> : It's hard to argue with you on this one. But, I'm guessing they went
> : for cheap once again. How's his speed compared to Rice and Ranheim?
>
> He is 30 and not a very good player compared to Rice.
One can only guess that this is a "throw-away" or they just want another
body to pound some people.
> : > : Craig Darby, lw, Philadelphia.
> : >
> : > I can live with this one although I think Juhlin would have been a better
> : > pick.
>
> : Ah, but there was a deal here too: for taking Darby instead of whomever
> : (Wigge lists Coffey--but that must be a misprint, otherwise I'll laugh),
> : the Predators get: Dominic Roussel (G), Jeff Staples (D), and a seventh
> : round pick in Saturday's draft. I think that's much better than Juhlin,
> : but I still can't figure out who they were trying to protect.
>
> Well, I am not too sure. I think Juhlin would be better.
The deal may have been specific to Darby, but I'm not sure. I don't
know enough about Juhlin to disagree with you.
>
> : > : Mike Dunham, g, New Jersey.
> : >
> : > I understand the reasoning but disagree with it.
>
> : All of Nashville is hoping that you're wrong. Otherwise next season is
> : going to make Tampa Bay's look like fun.
>
> Ya, well, 15 wins is a goal of Poile's that will be REALLY hard to get.
> Washington's record for futility in a season is in serious jepardy of
> falling unless this team gets better in a hurry.
I don't think it's going to be that bad. This team has some speed to it
which will give us a chance. I would say it's going to come down to
goaltending, because the defense looks reasonably solid. Better than
most of us were expecting, actually.
> : > : Doug Friedman, c, Edmonton.
> : >
> : > I dunno...
>
> : Me neither. He had some good games, but it's definately a work in
> : progress.
>
> I'll reserve judgement for a while on him.
This is the one pick that really bugs me. Even the local paper said
this guy has "little chance of making the roster." Somebody made the
comment earlier, "didn't Edmonton have anybody better on their exposed
list?" I keep asking myself the same question with this pick.
> : > : Tony Hrkac, c, Pittsburgh.
> : >
> : > The closest thing the Preds have to a #1 center, and it ain't very close.
>
> : I'm guessing this is where they'll try and get a free agent--the center
> : position. They could also use another right wing.
>
> But who is available? There really is not much out there to sign.
Or could be traded...we'll see.
> : > : Denny Lambert, lw, Ottawa.
> : >
> : > Huh? Tugnutt would have been a MUCH, MUCH better pick.
>
> : I thought so too...but they used up their other open goaltender slots on
> : deals (Vokoun & Chabot) or draft picks (Richter). So, since they
> : couldn't take a goalie, Lambert was probably the best of what was left.
>
> I would have taken Tugnutt over Stalenkhov easily.
I think Tugnutt was a better goalie too. But, to not take Shtalenkov
from Anaheim means you just throw away that pick entirely, with
virtually zero chance of having anything develop. Shtalenkov at least
is a known quantity, and we know he'll be fine as a #2, or possibly able
to step into #1 should Dunham have a meltdown. Plus, taking Lambert was
not entirely unpalatable....he's a great enforcer and an expansion team
needs as many of those as possible.
> : Well, at least Poile was honest when he said Nashville would probably be
> : the worst team in the NHL next year. But there's a lot of youth and I
> : can see how 4-5 years from now this team could be pretty good. In any
> : event, I doubt the roster we see for the Predators come opening day is
> : going to look much like this anyway. I think we can expect a lot of
> : these players to be moved. Should be interesting to see how things
> : shake out.
>
> Well, in my opinion there is very little from the expansion draft that
> will be around the first time this team makes the playoffs. I am
> thinking that 30 pts and\or 15 wins will be lofty goals that will be hard
> to obtain.
Again, it all comes down to goaltending. While I don't think this team
will beat Florida's record, I think it can be better than a 30 point
team, even though we do play Detroit & St. Louis six times each per
season. If Dunham lives up even partially to his own lofty
expectations, this team could get real good, real quick. It's true that
this team is mostly cast-offs, but let's keep it in perspective....there
are some other teams out there that look just as bad or worse (the
entire state of Florida comes to mind). And, if next year's team should
be as bad as you suggest, I'll try and take comfort in that at least
Poile did a good job with the entry draft and there's hope for the
future.
John
sonny hays-eberts
In article <6n1rkt$q39$1...@missing.its.to>, ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
(Trevor Peter Peterson) wrote:
> : J.J. Daigneault, d, N.Y. Islanders.
>
> Chorske was available, what was Piole thinking?
trevor, you really overrate chorske. daigneualt can run the power play and
is not a bad pick. i'd rather have seen nashville take chorske instead.
> : Mike Sullivan, c, Boston.
>
> He is not a bad player but Carey would have been MUCH better.
carey sucks! i wouldn't be surprised if he never plays in the nhl again.
Brad Murray
> Chorske was available, what was Piole thinking?
Chorske sucks. Plain and simple. I've never seen a player choke on more
breakaways.
Simon Juncal
sonny hays-eberts wrote:
>
> In article <6n1rkt$q39$1...@missing.its.to>, ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
> (Trevor Peter Peterson) wrote:
>
> > : J.J. Daigneault, d, N.Y. Islanders.
> >
>
> is not a bad pick. i'd rather have seen nashville take chorske instead.
>
> > : Mike Sullivan, c, Boston.
> >
> > He is not a bad player but Carey would have been MUCH better.
>
> carey sucks! i wouldn't be surprised if he never plays in the nhl again.
After hearing his plans to retire and go back to school, I'd be
surprised if he even plays in the AHL again! Let's face it the
guy not only freaked out over the prospect of a conditioning stint
he SUCKED when he did play (and brooded by himself when he didn't)..
Then to top it off he has an injury.
Horrible attitude + 2.5 million a year salary + No confidence in
himself (giving up) + bad AHL stats = Contract dissolved with a small
buy out, and one more "flash in the pan" to compare new "hot" goalies
to.
Trevor Peter Peterson
John Crocetti (croc...@home.com) wrote:
: Except that you'd have to pay him. And that salary I think makes him a
: little unpalatable to an expansion team. Plus, with the limited
: goaltender slots...
You would only have to pay him if he is healthy enough to play (insurance
covers injured players), and when he is healthy he can carry a team.
: One can only guess that this is a "throw-away" or they just want another
: body to pound some people.
He is not even a tough guy.
: I don't think it's going to be that bad. This team has some speed to it
: which will give us a chance. I would say it's going to come down to
: goaltending, because the defense looks reasonably solid. Better than
: most of us were expecting, actually.
The offense sucks big-time. Brunette and Hrkac are the only players with
any offensive talent and they will not be able to carry the entire load
themselves.
As for the defense, it sucks. Dunham will see a LOT of tough shots this
season and will get very little help with rebounds.
As for Dunham, I personally do not think he is all that good. I think
the Jersey defense made him look a lot better than he actually is. I do
think he is a competent back-up that can give you 15-25 solid games a
year but that is about it.
: This is the one pick that really bugs me. Even the local paper said
: this guy has "little chance of making the roster." Somebody made the
: comment earlier, "didn't Edmonton have anybody better on their exposed
: list?" I keep asking myself the same question with this pick.
Kovalenko should have been a shoe-in for the first line for Nashville.
It would have at least given them a decent goal-scoring threat (if
Kovalenko guvews you nothing else).
: Or could be traded...we'll see.
They have very little of trade value that could get them a competent
center who could even begin to fill the #1 spot.
: I think Tugnutt was a better goalie too. But, to not take Shtalenkov
: from Anaheim means you just throw away that pick entirely, with
: virtually zero chance of having anything develop. Shtalenkov at least
: is a known quantity, and we know he'll be fine as a #2, or possibly able
: to step into #1 should Dunham have a meltdown. Plus, taking Lambert was
: not entirely unpalatable....he's a great enforcer and an expansion team
: needs as many of those as possible.
Therre were UFA like Young who would have got the Preds a better pick
that the bum Lambert is worth.
: Again, it all comes down to goaltending. While I don't think this team
: will beat Florida's record, I think it can be better than a 30 point
: team, even though we do play Detroit & St. Louis six times each per
: season. If Dunham lives up even partially to his own lofty
: expectations, this team could get real good, real quick. It's true that
: this team is mostly cast-offs, but let's keep it in perspective....there
: are some other teams out there that look just as bad or worse (the
: entire state of Florida comes to mind). And, if next year's team should
: be as bad as you suggest, I'll try and take comfort in that at least
: Poile did a good job with the entry draft and there's hope for the
: future.
I agree with the entry draft thing, but Poile has always been good at
that. I think only time will tell as to just how bad this team is.
We'll have to see exactly what the team make-up is on opening day.
Trevor
Jonas Ohlsson
> The offense sucks big-time. Brunette and Hrkac are the only players
with
> any offensive talent and they will not be able to carry the entire load
> themselves.
They got two players from europe, Patric Kjellberg and Ville Peltonen,
who are both natural born scorers and both have NHL experience.
They will probably be the two big scorers for Nashville
John Crocetti
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
>
> John Crocetti (croc...@home.com) wrote:
> : Except that you'd have to pay him. And that salary I think makes him a
> : little unpalatable to an expansion team. Plus, with the limited
> : goaltender slots...
>
> covers injured players), and when he is healthy he can carry a team.
I hate to say this, but I forget which player we're talking about here,
so I don't think I can comment anymore. My newsreader threw away the
old messages on this thread, so I can't even go back to find out.
Sorry.
> The offense sucks big-time. Brunette and Hrkac are the only players with
> any offensive talent and they will not be able to carry the entire load
> themselves.
Obviously, the offense is the weakest part of the team so far, but I
wouldn't go so far as to say it "sucks big time" without seeing it play
first. Brunette and Hrkac have talent, but to say they're the only ones
is simply not true, or would you like to ignore Doug Brown completely?
Or Greg Johnson? Or Blair Atcheynum? Or Darren Turcotte? Plus with
the addition of the Europeans: Kjellberg, Krivorkrasov, and Velicevic,
there's some talent to be had. And the minor leaguers: Cisar and Darby
are at the top of their class (for the minors).
It's true, the Predators don't have any superstars (yet) and the team
isn't likely to set any records for goals scored or games won, but I
find your offhand dismissal of the team before we've seen a single linup
or game played a bit disingenuous.
> As for the defense, it sucks. Dunham will see a LOT of tough shots this
> season and will get very little help with rebounds.
Now this is curious, because most people I've seen agreed that we did
much better on defense than expected. I don't understand how you can
look at a player listing including Boughner, Bouchard, Daigneault,
Iafrate, Zettler, and More and come to the automatic conclusion that "it
sucks." Granted, once again there are no superstars. But looking
around the league, this is not a bad lineup. They've got some speed --
much more than the Panthers had on their first team, and when you're
playing in the Western Conference, speed is more important than having a
big hulking body that can't skate.
>
> As for Dunham, I personally do not think he is all that good. I think
> the Jersey defense made him look a lot better than he actually is. I do
> think he is a competent back-up that can give you 15-25 solid games a
> year but that is about it.
Obviously, that's your opinion, and there's nothing I can do to change
it. Dunham has never really had a shot to show what he can do in the
NHL. This is his chance. If he lives up to expectations, he'll be a
star goalie. If not, Nashville is not going to have any problems
getting a quality goaltender by the following season.
> Therre were UFA like Young who would have got the Preds a better pick
> that the bum Lambert is worth.
I disagree with your analysis of Lambert's value. I think he'll bring
some much needed hard hitting and physical play to the team. He was a
fan favorite up in Ottawa, and I have no doubt that he'll become a
favorite in Nashville as well.
> I agree with the entry draft thing, but Poile has always been good at
> that. I think only time will tell as to just how bad this team is.
> We'll have to see exactly what the team make-up is on opening day.
>
> Trevor
Agreed, it's a long time until the start of the season, and Poile is all
over the local media shouting that the team that hits the ice in October
is not going to look anything like the one on paper right now. We'll
see. Right now, everyone locally is still in euphoria over getting
Legwand, so Poile once again has a bit of a grace period, and any
complaints that came out of the expansion draft locally have been
quieted for now. We'll see how long it lasts.
John
Trevor Peter Peterson
John Crocetti (croc...@home.com) wrote:
: I hate to say this, but I forget which player we're talking about here,
: so I don't think I can comment anymore. My newsreader threw away the
: old messages on this thread, so I can't even go back to find out.
: Sorry.
Puppa
: Obviously, the offense is the weakest part of the team so far, but I
: wouldn't go so far as to say it "sucks big time" without seeing it play
: first.
Just have to look at what they have so far to come to that conclusion.
Brunette and Hrkac have talent, but to say they're the only ones
: is simply not true, or would you like to ignore Doug Brown completely?
: Or Greg Johnson? Or Blair Atcheynum? Or Darren Turcotte? Plus with
: the addition of the Europeans: Kjellberg, Krivorkrasov, and Velicevic,
: there's some talent to be had. And the minor leaguers: Cisar and Darby
: are at the top of their class (for the minors).
All of those players are just not going to make much of an offensive impact.
: It's true, the Predators don't have any superstars (yet) and the team
: isn't likely to set any records for goals scored or games won, but I
: find your offhand dismissal of the team before we've seen a single linup
: or game played a bit disingenuous.
It is pretty easy to dismiss this team. There is not much talent.
: Now this is curious, because most people I've seen agreed that we did
: much better on defense than expected. I don't understand how you can
: look at a player listing including Boughner, Bouchard, Daigneault,
: Iafrate, Zettler, and More and come to the automatic conclusion that "it
: sucks."
Quite easily. Iafrate and Boughner are the only good d-men on that list
and Iafrate is unlikely to play for them.
Bouchard is young and I think he could be a good d-man but not now.
: Obviously, that's your opinion, and there's nothing I can do to change
: it. Dunham has never really had a shot to show what he can do in the
: NHL. This is his chance. If he lives up to expectations, he'll be a
: star goalie. If not, Nashville is not going to have any problems
: getting a quality goaltender by the following season.
Ya, we'll have to wait and see.
: I disagree with your analysis of Lambert's value. I think he'll bring
: some much needed hard hitting and physical play to the team. He was a
: fan favorite up in Ottawa, and I have no doubt that he'll become a
: favorite in Nashville as well.
Well, I do not think he is worth much. Goons are a dime-a-dozen and
waisting a pick on him is not the way to go in my opinion.
: Agreed, it's a long time until the start of the season, and Poile is all
: over the local media shouting that the team that hits the ice in October
: is not going to look anything like the one on paper right now. We'll
: see. Right now, everyone locally is still in euphoria over getting
: Legwand, so Poile once again has a bit of a grace period, and any
: complaints that came out of the expansion draft locally have been
: quieted for now. We'll see how long it lasts.
Ya, opening day will be the telling tale, but right at this moment the
team sucks.
Trevor
Simon Juncal
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
> Ya, opening day will be the telling tale, but right at this moment the
> team sucks.
And right at this moment had Poile taken only the picks you liked
the team would still suck, and would be even worse in a year or so
when aging overpriced guys like Gagner, and expensive 2.5mil has-beens
like Carey had to be dealt with.
I mean come on, the guy went from Vezina winner to (backup) AHL'er and
you still think he's worth risking 2.5 million and then 2.8 million of
someone else's money on? The fact that Poile didn't take him, after
having been Carey's GM for his three NHL season's is enough to
convince me even had I not already been (convinced).
You stick a bunch of high priced, talent (relatively speaking) on a
team without regard to attitude, salary, age (the future), and
chemistry; and you get "on paper" teams like the Vancouver Canucks
(sorry Canucks fans).
You give a guy like Dunham, who certainly believes he can start - a
chance to step up into the starting role, and if he succeeds you're
in good shape... you bring in a guy making starting goalie money,
who seems to think that the hardware he'd won, behind a stifling
defense, entitles him to a starting role -- and you're asking for
trouble. All on a team full of guys who don't know each other.
> Trevor
E. Laurain
Simon Juncal wrote in message <35A005FE...@erols.com>...
>Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
[snip]
>You give a guy like Dunham, who certainly believes he can start - a
>chance to step up into the starting role, and if he succeeds you're
>in good shape... you bring in a guy making starting goalie money,
>who seems to think that the hardware he'd won, behind a stifling
>defense, entitles him to a starting role -- and you're asking for
>trouble. All on a team full of guys who don't know each other.
...who are in /Nashville/ for God's sake! Can you imagine being a
hockey player on a /bad/ expansion team in Nashville? At least if you
suck in Chicago there are other things to take your mind off the game.
Here's a frightening scene:
Two Predators in the lockerroom after the game...
Predator #1: Hey, that was only a 7-3 drubbing! Pretty soon, we'll be
in a game in the third period!
Predator #2: You know it! Let's go out and celebrate! I hear Opryland
is having a special...four dollar pitchers of Budweiser!
Predator #1: (whimpering) Dear Lord...kill me now...
E.L.
Simon Juncal
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
>
> Jonas Ohlsson (jzt...@algonet.se) wrote:
> : They got two players from europe, Patric Kjellberg and Ville Peltonen,
> : who are both natural born scorers and both have NHL experience.
> : They will probably be the two big scorers for Nashville
>
Wow so not only do you know the potential of these two players, but
you also are gifted enough to state emphatically that they wont
produce in the NHL regardless of their line mates, ice time, and
role on the team?
So how bout the scoop on Thornton or Legwand? Boom or bust?
Trevor Peter Peterson
Jonas Ohlsson (jzt...@algonet.se) wrote:
: They got two players from europe, Patric Kjellberg and Ville Peltonen,
: who are both natural born scorers and both have NHL experience.
: They will probably be the two big scorers for Nashville
Neither one can or will score much in the NHL.
Trevor
John Crocetti
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
>
> John Crocetti (croc...@home.com) wrote:
> : I hate to say this, but I forget which player we're talking about here,
> : so I don't think I can comment anymore. My newsreader threw away the
> : old messages on this thread, so I can't even go back to find out.
> : Sorry.
>
> Puppa
Oh my God. How on earth can you go off on Dunham as being a wasted pick
and suggest that Puppa would be so much better. At one time, he carried
his team. But that was a long time ago. Medically, he's falling
apart. Given that Nashville could only take five goaltenders, and three
were wrapped up in pre-draft deals, I can't think of any justification
for using one of the two "free" goaltender picks on Puppa.
> : Obviously, the offense is the weakest part of the team so far, but I
> : wouldn't go so far as to say it "sucks big time" without seeing it play
> : first.
>
> Just have to look at what they have so far to come to that conclusion.
Trevor, with respect, giving a response like that, the only conclusion I
can reach is that you're trolling for a heated response. You say they
have no talent, but compared to whom? Detroit? Well obviously they're
not as talented as the Red Wings or Stars or the other elite teams in
the league. But there are very few teams who are that talented. Your
blanket response is pretty weak since nobody's ever seen them play.
> Brunette and Hrkac have talent, but to say they're the only ones
> : is simply not true, or would you like to ignore Doug Brown completely?
> : Or Greg Johnson? Or Blair Atcheynum? Or Darren Turcotte? Plus with
> : the addition of the Europeans: Kjellberg, Krivorkrasov, and Velicevic,
> : there's some talent to be had. And the minor leaguers: Cisar and Darby
> : are at the top of their class (for the minors).
>
> All of those players are just not going to make much of an offensive impact.
And would you please tell me how you reached that conclusion? I'd love
to know. Detroit is not happy about losing Brown, who not only scored
pivotal goals in the Cup finals, but was a real go-to guy throughout the
season. Atcheynm and Turcotte are both solid, quality players who did
well with the Blues. Johnson can be counted on for about 20 goals per
season. And have you ever seen those Europeans?
> : It's true, the Predators don't have any superstars (yet) and the team
> : isn't likely to set any records for goals scored or games won, but I
> : find your offhand dismissal of the team before we've seen a single linup
> : or game played a bit disingenuous.
>
> It is pretty easy to dismiss this team. There is not much talent.
Now that's an intelligent comment. Let's just say they don't have any
talent, or they suck. I'd be willing to bet that they don't finish last
in the league next year as you would have us believe. While there may
be some unknowns on this team, they are hardly talent-less.
> : Now this is curious, because most people I've seen agreed that we did
> : much better on defense than expected. I don't understand how you can
> : look at a player listing including Boughner, Bouchard, Daigneault,
> : Iafrate, Zettler, and More and come to the automatic conclusion that "it
> : sucks."
>
> Quite easily. Iafrate and Boughner are the only good d-men on that list
> and Iafrate is unlikely to play for them.
Which shows you don't know much about Iafrate -- who has a long and good
personal relationship with Poile and is coming down for a visit to
Nashville next week. Most analysts suggest Nashville has better than a
50-50 shot of signing Iafrate.
> : I disagree with your analysis of Lambert's value. I think he'll bring
> : some much needed hard hitting and physical play to the team. He was a
> : fan favorite up in Ottawa, and I have no doubt that he'll become a
> : favorite in Nashville as well.
>
> Well, I do not think he is worth much. Goons are a dime-a-dozen and
> waisting a pick on him is not the way to go in my opinion.
Seems to me that among the goons, he was the best of the bunch. A solid
presence in the locker room, and good with the fans. And there can't be
any question that an expansion team needs some goons. They're hardly a
waste. And I disagree with you -- I think Lambert would have excellent
trade value, if nothing else than his small contract for his pivotal
role.
> Ya, opening day will be the telling tale, but right at this moment the
> team sucks.
>
> Trevor
I suppose that if you offered anything other than blanket statements, I
would be concerned. But given Poile's four year plan, his skill in the
entry draft, and the trades I've seen him pull off so far, I'm looking
forward to a great team. Sure, they might not break even in their first
season, but four or five years down the line, I think Nashville will
turn out to be one of the most successful expansion franchises yet.
(And being exempt from next year's expansion draft is going to be huge
boon that will help ensure that.)
John
sonny hays-eberts
In article <6nlskp$eil$3...@missing.its.to>, ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
(Trevor Peter Peterson) wrote:
> I think Daigneult is overrated. He could not run a power-play decently
> if his life depended on it and his defensive play leaves something to be
> desired. Chorske is much more valuable than JJ.
you must be living on the memories of chorske in new jersey. while i'd
rather have schneider running the pp on the island instead, chorske
doesn't have the value to the islanders than jj does right now.
> : carey sucks! i wouldn't be surprised if he never plays in the nhl again.
>
> Why does he suck? I think he is better than Dunham.
for starters, he'll likely never play in the nhl again. very liekly, he
won;t even play minor league hockey. other than his rookie season, he's
been a huge flop. a complete *zero*.
Erik Johnson
John Crocetti wrote:
> Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
> >
> > Brunette and Hrkac have talent, but to say they're the only ones
> > : is simply not true, or would you like to ignore Doug Brown completely?
> > : Or Greg Johnson? Or Blair Atcheynum? Or Darren Turcotte? Plus with
> > : the addition of the Europeans: Kjellberg, Krivorkrasov, and Velicevic,
> > : there's some talent to be had. And the minor leaguers: Cisar and Darby
> > : are at the top of their class (for the minors).
> >
> > All of those players are just not going to make much of an offensive impact.
>
> And would you please tell me how you reached that conclusion? I'd love
> to know. Detroit is not happy about losing Brown, who not only scored
> pivotal goals in the Cup finals, but was a real go-to guy throughout the
> season. Atcheynm and Turcotte are both solid, quality players who did
> well with the Blues.
The problem is that all of these guys played on teams with far better talent than
the Preds will see for years. Yeah, Doug Brown and Turcotte are nice
players.........when surrounded by better players. But when they are the best
players on the team......they don't look quite as good......and they certainly
won't be nearly as good.
> Johnson can be counted on for about 20 goals per
> season.
Since when has Johnson ever scored 20 goals in a season?
> And have you ever seen those Europeans?
Peltonen is a one dimensional player.....and that one dimension isn't great. He's
had one good season in NA since leaving Sweden and that was at the IHL level. His
2 years with the Sharks were quite forgettable.
> > : It's true, the Predators don't have any superstars (yet) and the team
> > : isn't likely to set any records for goals scored or games won, but I
> > : find your offhand dismissal of the team before we've seen a single linup
> > : or game played a bit disingenuous.
> >
> > It is pretty easy to dismiss this team. There is not much talent.
>
> Now that's an intelligent comment. Let's just say they don't have any
> talent, or they suck. I'd be willing to bet that they don't finish last
> in the league next year as you would have us believe. While there may
> be some unknowns on this team, they are hardly talent-less.
I think it'll take a miracle to keep this team out of the cellar. There is talent
on the team, but the problem is the 3rd/4th line talent will have to play on the
1st/2nd lines.....and the minor league talent has to fill out the rest of the
spots on the major league roster. That's a problem.......
With a Dominik Hasek-like goalie, they could be somewhat competitive......but
Dunham isn't quite that good.
> > : Now this is curious, because most people I've seen agreed that we did
> > : much better on defense than expected. I don't understand how you can
> > : look at a player listing including Boughner, Bouchard, Daigneault,
> > : Iafrate, Zettler, and More and come to the automatic conclusion that "it
> > : sucks."
> >
> > Quite easily. Iafrate and Boughner are the only good d-men on that list
> > and Iafrate is unlikely to play for them.
>
> Which shows you don't know much about Iafrate -- who has a long and good
> personal relationship with Poile and is coming down for a visit to
> Nashville next week. Most analysts suggest Nashville has better than a
> 50-50 shot of signing Iafrate.
Iafrate had a team option year on his contract......which the Preds declined to
accept. And from all indications, Poile really has no intentions of signing him.
> > : I disagree with your analysis of Lambert's value. I think he'll bring
> > : some much needed hard hitting and physical play to the team. He was a
> > : fan favorite up in Ottawa, and I have no doubt that he'll become a
> > : favorite in Nashville as well.
> >
> > Well, I do not think he is worth much. Goons are a dime-a-dozen and
> > waisting a pick on him is not the way to go in my opinion.
>
> Seems to me that among the goons, he was the best of the bunch.
Maybe at getting pummelled on the ice :o)
> I suppose that if you offered anything other than blanket statements, I
> would be concerned. But given Poile's four year plan, his skill in the
> entry draft, and the trades I've seen him pull off so far, I'm looking
> forward to a great team.
Maybe in a few years.....after most of the expansion fodder is gone. Or they are
in better spots in the lineup that fit their type of play.
Erik Johnson
John Crocetti
Erik Johnson wrote:
>
> John Crocetti wrote:
>
> > Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
> > >
> > > : is simply not true, or would you like to ignore Doug Brown completely?
> > > : Or Greg Johnson? Or Blair Atcheynum? Or Darren Turcotte? Plus with
> > > : the addition of the Europeans: Kjellberg, Krivorkrasov, and Velicevic,
> > > : there's some talent to be had. And the minor leaguers: Cisar and Darby
> > > : are at the top of their class (for the minors).
> > >
> > > All of those players are just not going to make much of an offensive impact.
> >
> > And would you please tell me how you reached that conclusion? I'd love
> > to know. Detroit is not happy about losing Brown, who not only scored
> > pivotal goals in the Cup finals, but was a real go-to guy throughout the
> > season. Atcheynm and Turcotte are both solid, quality players who did
>
> > well with the Blues.
>
> The problem is that all of these guys played on teams with far better talent than
> the Preds will see for years. Yeah, Doug Brown and Turcotte are nice
> players.........when surrounded by better players. But when they are the best
> players on the team......they don't look quite as good......and they certainly
> won't be nearly as good.
I can't fault your logic here (at least you provided some). And
certainly no one is suggesting that this team is going to make the
playoffs next year (or even the year after). I would just remind
everyone that it's impossible to know how these players are going to
react next season. Who knows which players will be able to step up and
be leaders, and who will fall by the wayside without the support
structure of a strong team around them. I would suggest, however, that
one of the things Poile is doing a good job at is picking players with
great character on and off the ice. Certainly if team chemistry means
anything, he's putting the right pieces together, though we'll have to
wait until next year to see how it gels. His acquisition of Fitzgerald
today, though, was a step in the right direction.
On a side note, I would probably argue that Turcotte might have been
better on the Blues without Hull -- it would have allowed him more ice
time and the ability to crash the net a bit more. I think that would
have raised his numbers. But that's quibbling, I suppose.
> > Johnson can be counted on for about 20 goals per
> > season.
>
> Since when has Johnson ever scored 20 goals in a season?
Not for a while, granted. But he was stuck in more or less a checking
role with the Blackhawks last year. He's shown that he has the ability
to score (and still managed to score 12 goals last year as a checker).
Put him in another role, and I don't see any reason why he couldn't up
those numbers to 20 or more in a season.
>
> > And have you ever seen those Europeans?
>
> Peltonen is a one dimensional player.....and that one dimension isn't great. He's
> had one good season in NA since leaving Sweden and that was at the IHL level. His
> 2 years with the Sharks were quite forgettable.
You'll notice that I left Peltonen off my list. :) I had been
referring to Kjellberg, Krivorkrasov, and Velicevic. I imagine Peltonen
will be getting to know the Admirals in Milwaukee pretty well next year
(Nashville's IHL affiliate). Still, he's relatively young (25) and
could grow, though likely won't play for the Predators next year anyway.
> > > : It's true, the Predators don't have any superstars (yet) and the team
> > > : isn't likely to set any records for goals scored or games won, but I
> > > : find your offhand dismissal of the team before we've seen a single linup
> > > : or game played a bit disingenuous.
> > >
> > > It is pretty easy to dismiss this team. There is not much talent.
> >
> > Now that's an intelligent comment. Let's just say they don't have any
> > talent, or they suck. I'd be willing to bet that they don't finish last
> > in the league next year as you would have us believe. While there may
> > be some unknowns on this team, they are hardly talent-less.
>
> I think it'll take a miracle to keep this team out of the cellar. There is talent
> on the team, but the problem is the 3rd/4th line talent will have to play on the
> 1st/2nd lines.....and the minor league talent has to fill out the rest of the
> spots on the major league roster. That's a problem.......
>
> With a Dominik Hasek-like goalie, they could be somewhat competitive......but
> Dunham isn't quite that good.
Nashville's biggest problem to attaining early success, in my humble
opinion, is the division they'll play in. I think that you could make a
very strong case that the central division of the western conference
next year will be the toughest in the NHL. Nashville will get to play
Detroit, St. Louis, and Chicago six times apiece next year. Not fun.
Certainly, Atlanta will have an enormous advantage when they come in
with divisional opponents Florida, Tampa Bay, and Carolina. Given
Nashville's schedule, it's hard to see how this team won't be a bottom
feeder. But, you put most other teams in the NHL in that same division,
and I bet they encounter a similar fate. Seriously, what would happen
to a Vancouver, Calgary, any team from Florida, or even a Toronto or
Ottawa if they were in that same division? I doubt it would be pretty.
I guess the point is to keep it in perspective. No, this team will not
make the playoffs next year (if they do, it will be the new 'miracle on
ice'). But for an expansion team, I don't think they'll be far removed
from any of the other teams that don't make the playoffs. Okay,
granted, that's pretty scary in some cases -- but they'll have better
talent coming down the pipeline than most of those other teams which can
at least give the fans hope for the future.
On to your remarks specifically, yes, there's a lot of 3rd/4th line
talent on the team. Just like there was on Florida's and every other
expansion team. Maybe they'll step up, and maybe they won't. Nobody
will know until next season. But once again, let's keep this in
perspective. Despite a lot of people's moaning and groaning about 3rd
and 4th line talent, we should be honest -- for most teams in the NHL,
there's not that significant a difference in talent level between their
2nd and 3rd lines. Sure, it's easy to come up with a lot of cases where
there is a big difference (or no difference because they're all good):
Detroit, Philly, Dallas, etc. But I think that's the exception rather
than the rule.
Nashville would like, ultimately, to be compared to those teams and be
competitive with them. But in the short and immediate term, I think
comparing them to some of the other "normal" teams would be more
accurate.
> > > : Now this is curious, because most people I've seen agreed that we did
> > > : much better on defense than expected. I don't understand how you can
> > > : look at a player listing including Boughner, Bouchard, Daigneault,
> > > : Iafrate, Zettler, and More and come to the automatic conclusion that "it
> > > : sucks."
> > >
> > > Quite easily. Iafrate and Boughner are the only good d-men on that list
> > > and Iafrate is unlikely to play for them.
> >
> > Which shows you don't know much about Iafrate -- who has a long and good
> > personal relationship with Poile and is coming down for a visit to
> > Nashville next week. Most analysts suggest Nashville has better than a
> > 50-50 shot of signing Iafrate.
>
> Iafrate had a team option year on his contract......which the Preds declined to
> accept. And from all indications, Poile really has no intentions of signing him.
You're right in that the Predators didn't take the option year on his
contract. It would have meant paying him somewhere around $2.3 million
for the season. Would you want to risk that? But you're wrong about
Poile not wanting to sign him. Iafrate's coming to Nashville on
Wednesday (I think...could be Thursday). Anyway, he's coming the day
after he visits Carolina -- which the media reports right now as being
the only serious competitor to Nashville's bid. Poile's going to make
him an offer, but I doubt it will be long term. In all likelihood,
they'll set up an agreement to let him finish his career in Nashville
and then join their operation on the administrative side -- probably as
a scout or something. Now if Carolina wants to throw around money like
it's water, they can probably sign him away from Nashville (and let
them, I say). But your assertion that Poile isn't serious about signing
him is simply not true.
Thanks for posting your thoughts.
John
John Crocetti
> : certainly no one is suggesting that this team is going to make the
> : playoffs next year (or even the year after). I would just remind
> : everyone that it's impossible to know how these players are going to
> : react next season. Who knows which players will be able to step up and
> : be leaders, and who will fall by the wayside without the support
> : structure of a strong team around them. I would suggest, however, that
> : one of the things Poile is doing a good job at is picking players with
> : great character on and off the ice. Certainly if team chemistry means
> : anything, he's putting the right pieces together, though we'll have to
> : wait until next year to see how it gels. His acquisition of Fitzgerald
> : today, though, was a step in the right direction.
>
> The Preds have very little in they way of talent and will have a major
> problem competing.
Again, I'll ask the question nobody seems to want to answer: compared
to whom? Obviously, when you compare Nashville to any of the elite
teams in the NHL (heck, most of the teams in their division) they come
up short. But what happens when you compare them to Florida, Tampa Bay,
Carolina, Calgary, or even Vancouver or Chicago. They're not that far
off, or in some cases, I would argue better. I have never suggested
this team was going to make the playoffs or even have a winning season
next year. All I'm saying is let's keep it in perspective.
>
> : > > Now that's an intelligent comment. Let's just say they don't have any
> : > > talent, or they suck. I'd be willing to bet that they don't finish last
> : > > in the league next year as you would have us believe. While there may
> : > > be some unknowns on this team, they are hardly talent-less.
>
> Anybody who would bet the Preds will not finish as the team sits now is
> so stupid they should not even be posting in this newsgroup.
Will not finish what? Last? I'll pretend I didn't read that last line.
> : Nashville would like, ultimately, to be compared to those teams and be
> : competitive with them. But in the short and immediate term, I think
> : comparing them to some of the other "normal" teams would be more
> : accurate.
>
> As the team stands now, and there is nothing saying the team as it is now
> will be what is fielded for their first game of the season, there is
> little hope of this team achieving 30 pts in the season, much less being
> compared to Florida or any other existng team in the NHL.
The first part of what you say is absolutely true, what the team looks
like now undoubtedly will be nothing like what it ends up as in
October. From that perspective, it's almost pointless to even argue
about the merits of the team. I don't know about the 30 points bit...I
think a lot will ultimately depend on how Dunham plays. If he does
really well (granted, that's a large 'if') then 30 points is certainly
within reach. Who are we kidding? The NHL is a lot different now than
it was when Florida entered. Scoring 1 or 2 goals a game is often
enough to win now. That also assumes the Predators defence is better
than you believe it to be.
In any event, there's a second element here that we haven't talked
about. There's this presupposition that Nashville has to emulate the
Florida Panthers, and any deviation from their strategy should be
considered a failure. I guess I would just point out that in most
respects, Nashville is trying to avoid following in Florida's exact
footsteps. Granted, their expansion record was amazing, and making it
to the cup finals in their second year is a feat that will probably go
unmatched in professional sports ever. But where are they now? They're
a complete disaster with a high payroll, aging players, and nothing in
the pipeline to offer them any hope. Looking at this long term, I think
Nashville's right not to follow in their footsteps. Sure, they'll never
make the finals in their second, third, or fourth year. But they have
the potential to be there from that point on, which is far better than
Florida is right now.
> : You're right in that the Predators didn't take the option year on his
> : contract. It would have meant paying him somewhere around $2.3 million
> : for the season. Would you want to risk that?
>
> If you want Iafrate on your team there is no risk in that. Insurance
> would cover his salary if he cannot play due to injury amd if he plays he
> is worth the money. That the Preds did not pick up the option tells
> Iafrate they are not seriously interested in him (in my opinion that is).
I don't know about the "worth the money part." His injury status
seriously lowers his market value, and I think he realizes that. It's
pretty doubtful that San Jose would have taken the option on his
contract either. In any event, if Carolina offers him $2+ million a
year, he'll undoubtedly end up there. If not, I would say that
Nashville has an excellent shot at signing him. As for "not being
serious"...it's hard for me to imagine Poile taking him for the draft
pick when there were several palatable players to be taken in the
expansion draft.
John
Simon Juncal
> Anybody who would bet the Preds will not finish as the team sits now is
> so stupid they should not even be posting in this newsgroup.
Okay how about we cut to the chase? Trevor feels Poile's team will
suck, while he believes a team composed more from his armchair
picks, would be more successful. picks he defended as "no brainers"
and "obvious" even though plenty of them weren't. At least that's
how I read it... Trevor doesn't want to out and out SAY his team
would be better... And he doesn't seem to grasp the flaws in "on
paper" logic.
This despite the fact that he's been repeatedly introduced to the
concept that unlike Poile and his scouting staff, he has no clue
about the attitude and future of many of his picks. Nor the financial
model that the Predators ownership is/will use... they could spend
like the Rangers... or the Bruin's or who knows... But one thing
is obvious... Poile didn't take many high priced players who are
obviously on a down slide, even though those players had more proven
talent than some of Poile's picks.
No one has addressed the fact that the ideal expansion model (the
panthers) for many people, now 5 or 6 years old hit rock bottom,
due to:
Not enough skilled depth
Not much in the way of tradable players
Not enough youth to replace the sagging veteran core of the team
Little scoring due to all of the above, especially "lame duck"
trade value of most of their older roster.
A couple bad trades.
I think Poile has learned from the Panthers mistakes, I think he's
banking on relatively inexpensive younger possible surprises (look
at Jason Allison) to come through when (for many) they finally get
real ice time, and responsibility put on their shoulders.
John Crocetti
discussion, but I'm heading off to Seattle for the next 10 days and will
be without a computer. But this has been a most entertaining and lively
discussion.
John
Trevor Peter Peterson
: Okay how about we cut to the chase? Trevor feels Poile's team will
: suck, while he believes a team composed more from his armchair
: picks, would be more successful. picks he defended as "no brainers"
: and "obvious" even though plenty of them weren't. At least that's
: how I read it... Trevor doesn't want to out and out SAY his team
: would be better... And he doesn't seem to grasp the flaws in "on
: paper" logic.
I think I could have picked a better team. No doubt about it. BUT that
was taking into consideration certain assumptions concerning contract
status and size. Poile had said at first that was not a concern but his
picks showed otherwise. The fact is that as it stands this team sucks
which is normal for an expansion team, just that it sucks worse that it
should. It could change by opening night though.
: This despite the fact that he's been repeatedly introduced to the
: concept that unlike Poile and his scouting staff, he has no clue
: about the attitude and future of many of his picks. Nor the financial
: model that the Predators ownership is/will use... they could spend
: like the Rangers... or the Bruin's or who knows... But one thing
: is obvious... Poile didn't take many high priced players who are
: obviously on a down slide, even though those players had more proven
: talent than some of Poile's picks.
Now doubt about it. Again though, my statements were based upon certain
assumptions which I alluded to above.
: No one has addressed the fact that the ideal expansion model (the
: panthers) for many people, now 5 or 6 years old hit rock bottom,
: due to:
The ideal expansion model in my opinion would be the Panthers, just that
I would think that improvements could be made on it.
: Not enough skilled depth
: Not much in the way of tradable players
: Not enough youth to replace the sagging veteran core of the team
: Little scoring due to all of the above, especially "lame duck"
: trade value of most of their older roster.
: A couple bad trades.
I think the last point is what did the Panthers in, not anything else.
: I think Poile has learned from the Panthers mistakes, I think he's
: banking on relatively inexpensive younger possible surprises (look
: at Jason Allison) to come through when (for many) they finally get
: real ice time, and responsibility put on their shoulders.
Who knows. Only time will tell who is right and who is wrong.
Trevor
Richard Farley
(Trevor Peter Peterson) wrote:
> I think I could have picked a better team. No doubt about it.
If there was really no doubt about it, this thread would have been dead a
long time ago. As is, there are plenty of doubts.
Norris, Douglas Todd
What I find completely amazing is the following:
1: Trevor obviously has more hockey sense and knowledge than David
Poile and the rest of the Nashville staff.
2: There are SEVERAL teams in the National Hockey League who are
looking for quality general managers.
3: HOWEVER, no one's snapped Trevor up to a high-paying general
manager job.
Maybe it's the owners' faults; if they can't recognize talent, then they
deserve to finish last. Or maybe one of my premises is incorrect; I'm
pretty sure about the 2nd and the 3rd ones, though...
Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Douglas Todd Norris (norr...@euclid.colorado.edu) "The Mad Kobold"
Hockey Goaltender Home Page:
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~norrisdt/goalie.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"One day one of my little nephews came up to me and asked me if the
equator was
a real line that went around the Earth, or just an imaginary one. I
had to
laugh. Laugh and laugh. Because I didn't know, and I thought that
maybe by
laughing he would forget what he asked me." - Deep Thought, Jack
Handey.
Trevor Peter Peterson
: In article <6o46rd$n1g$1...@missing.its.to>, ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
: (Trevor Peter Peterson) wrote:
: > I think I could have picked a better team. No doubt about it.
: If there was really no doubt about it, this thread would have been dead a
: long time ago. As is, there are plenty of doubts.
It is not about whether anybody else has doubts or not, but if I have any
doubts or not and I do not.
Again, that is taken into account the assumptions I made at the beginning
of this thread.
Trevor
Trevor Peter Peterson
: Richard Farley wrote:
: >
: > In article <6o46rd$n1g$1...@missing.its.to>, ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
: > (Trevor Peter Peterson) wrote:
: >
: > > I think I could have picked a better team. No doubt about it.
: >
: > If there was really no doubt about it, this thread would have been dead a
: > long time ago. As is, there are plenty of doubts.
: What I find completely amazing is the following:
: 1: Trevor obviously has more hockey sense and knowledge than David
: Poile and the rest of the Nashville staff.
: 2: There are SEVERAL teams in the National Hockey League who are
: looking for quality general managers.
: 3: HOWEVER, no one's snapped Trevor up to a high-paying general
: manager job.
If you are going to make a flame post like this, know what you are
talking about first. I right off the bat at the beginning of this
thrtead and several times throughout said that I made certain assumptions
about finances in particular.
Be sure to read a thread in its entirety and know what is going on before
you make a moronic post like that last one.
Trevor
Norris, Douglas Todd
>
> Norris, Douglas Todd (norr...@euclid.colorado.edu) wrote:
> : Richard Farley wrote:
> : >
> : > In article <6o46rd$n1g$1...@missing.its.to>, ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
> : > (Trevor Peter Peterson) wrote:
> : >
> : > > I think I could have picked a better team. No doubt about it.
> : >
> : > If there was really no doubt about it, this thread would have been dead a
> : > long time ago. As is, there are plenty of doubts.
>
> : What I find completely amazing is the following:
> : 1: Trevor obviously has more hockey sense and knowledge than David
> : Poile and the rest of the Nashville staff.
> : 2: There are SEVERAL teams in the National Hockey League who are
> : looking for quality general managers.
> : 3: HOWEVER, no one's snapped Trevor up to a high-paying general
> : manager job.
>
> If you are going to make a flame post like this, know what you are
> talking about first. I right off the bat at the beginning of this
> thrtead and several times throughout said that I made certain assumptions
> about finances in particular.
It's not a flame - it's called sarcasm. Hey, if it smells like
a flame to you, that's fine by me as well. I'll stand by what I
wrote - you said, up above, that you think you could have picked
a better team. If you could have, then my point is why aren't
the other teams just snapping you up to be their new GM?
> Be sure to read a thread in its entirety and know what is going on before
> you make a moronic post like that last one.
I've read the entire thread. You come off like someone who thinks
that they know more about hockey than they do. That's my opinion.
Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Douglas Todd Norris (norr...@euclid.colorado.edu) "The Mad Kobold"
Hockey Goaltender Home Page:
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~norrisdt/goalie.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The review you had on 'Shark Sandwich'...which was merely a two
word
review - just said "shit sandwich." - Marty DiBergi, This is Spinal
Tap
Trevor Peter Peterson
: a flame to you, that's fine by me as well. I'll stand by what I
: wrote - you said, up above, that you think you could have picked
: a better team. If you could have, then my point is why aren't
: the other teams just snapping you up to be their new GM?
Just b\c I think I could have picked a better team does not mean I
actually could. I do not necessarily have all the facts necessary to
make that statement in fact which is why I had started off this thread by
making some assumptions.
: I've read the entire thread. You come off like someone who thinks
: that they know more about hockey than they do. That's my opinion.
I have admitted that I do not have all the facts more than once and that
is why I made the assumptions I did. If you are not intelligent enough
to read that and understand it then I cannot help you.
Trevor
Edward Frankenbush
spinal tap...
Thanks,
Edward Frankenbush
Simon Juncal
Eh? mind explaining what/who you're talking to/about?
Trevor Peter Peterson
: You heard about Carey's operations, eh? Let's see you play after your
: spinal tap...
Never heard about that. Again, one of those pieces of information that
Poile had that I did not. Now knowing that info I can agree with him not
being selected (although I still would have been tempted).
Trevor
Sean Christian Berends
> > : Patrick Cote, lw, Dallas.
> >
> > Wow, another silly pick. Poile obviously has no interest in winning this year.
>
> Poile's building off a 4-5 year plan. I'm not so sure the Cote pick was
> bad. Nashville needed some muscle, and the best enforcers in the league
> that many were expecting to be exposed weren't. While Dallas had a lot
> of tempting names, they're getting older and they're very expensive.
> Looking over these picks, cheapness was a common theme. I'm betting
> that they're saving money to go after a free agent that can score. That
> would certainly give the team a different look.
>
Cote was ready to step up at least as a part-time player with Dallas last season
before he got injured. Supposedly he has some skills, but needs to work on improving
his skating. Overall, for an young enforcer, I think this was a good choice out of
what was available. Adams and Hogue are free agents and can be had on the market.
Adams is injury prone and may not want to play for another team. I know that Dallas
was very disappointed to lose Cote.
>
>
> > : J.J. Daigneault, d, N.Y. Islanders.
> >
> > Chorske was available, what was Piole thinking?
>
> Chorske's numbers aren't what they used to be. I would have been happy
> with him, but Daigneault has better speed which the Predators are going
> for. You would too if you were in the same division as Detroit and St.
> Louis. (Ouch, thinking of that reminds me of how painful next season
> will be.)
>
Daigneault is not faster than Chorske. Perhaps they just wanted an o.k. 2-way
defenseman.
Sean
Sean Christian Berends
right to complain. They basically cheated their way into having him for one
more season.
Sean
NJDevilCup wrote:
> On the flipside, he really seems to be fragile mentally. I heard so many
> interviews over the last 2 years that were nothing more than Mikey
> whining publically for more playing time. Now, I think it's good to want
> to contribute, but a "me, me, me" attitude gets you nowhere.
Sean Christian Berends
Trevor Peter Peterson wrote:
> Brad Murray (BradM...@SeeSigIfThere.com) wrote:
> : Chorske sucks. Plain and simple. I've never seen a player choke on more
> : breakaways.
>
> Chorske's forte is not offense but his defensive play.
>
> Trevor
Yeah. But with the offensive chances he gets from his speed. He should
score more. No hands!
Sean
CMA818
inside-out on a penalty shot last season!!!!!!
cmgr...@gmail.com
LWs:
Andrei Kovalenko
Cliff Ronning
Andrew Brunnette
Ville Peltonen
Cs:
Greg Johnson
Sebastian Bordeleau
Sergei Zholtok
David Legwand (draft pick)
RWs:
Milan Hejduk (somehow was made available by COL the year before his breakout season)
Sergei Krivokrasov
Scott Walker
Doug Brown
Ds:
Steve Duchesne
Kimmo Timonen
Greg DeVries
Marek Malik
Bob Boughner
Joel Bouchard
Gs:
Mike Dunham
Manny Fernandez
Eric Fichaud
Nashville would be in the playoffs in year 1 with this team and a perennial cup contender each year after that.