Benn vs Jones for 33 million!!
Scott T
>
>
>
> Nigel Benn has been promised a dream Ł33m showdown with Roy Jones.
>
> Don King is pulling out all the stops to pitch Dark Destroyer Benn
> against IBF super-middleweight champion Jones.
>
> King said: "i can't see why it shouldn't happen. Boxing politics
> shouldn't stand in the way of what will be a magnificent battle.
> A fight the whole world wants to see. "All money generated will be
> split 50-50 and that will keep everyone happy. "We are prepared to
> put up and there are no excuses from this side because it is all about
> proving who is the best boxer."
>
> Benn said: "Jones is the one i want and i won't stop fighting until
> i get in the ring with him. I am desperate to see who is number one
> and number two. "I think i will get a crack at him because of the public
> demand on both sides of the Atlantic. If Don King can't get it on there's
> something very wrong. "Facing Jones is my ultimate dream and i would
> prefer it to be in his own backyard. "I just love fighting in a hostile
> atomspere and for something that really means something. That's when
> i am at my best."
>
> This superfight is starting to look good.
>
>
> Dave Black
> Lets hope so.. Its the only fight I see for Jones, that will give him a decent workout!
With all due respect to Benn , I dont see Him lasting 6 Rounds with Roy Jones!
Take care
Scott T "the Dog"
Dave Black
Matador
Dave Black <bla...@sci2.scii.port.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Nigel Benn has been promised a dream Ł33m showdown with Roy Jones.
>
>
> prefer it to be in his own backyard. "I just love fighting in a hostile
> atomspere
>
Sorry, Benn, but if by hostile environment you mean getting tons of garbage
thrown at you should you win, then you are coming to the wrong place.
( )______( )
\________/
(o )(o )
--UUUU-UUUU--
___/\_________ / \ \
___ \______ / \ M \
| / \ A \
___ O\ | / \ T \
| / \ A \
___ \ | / \ D \
\_|\_o| / \ O \
/ \ R \
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
lo...@you.pitiful.bastard
kor...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (David James Algranati) wrote:
>>Scott T (kar...@txdirect.net) wrote:
>> In article <423t6p$1...@hawk.ee.port.ac.uk>, Dave Black
>><bla...@sci2.scii.port.ac.uk> says:
>> Lets hope so.. Its the only fight I see for Jones, that will give him a
>> decent workout! With all due respect to Benn , I dont see Him lasting 6
>> Rounds with Roy Jones!
>> Take care
>> Scott T "the Dog"
>
>Scott, when you make a statement that is so counter-intuitive, please
>support it.
>
>Reason would lead one to think Benn could most definately last 6 with
>Jones (amoung other things).
>
>Firstly, Benn took McClellan's shots, which are most likely more powerful
>(probably significantly more powerful) than Jones'. Not only did Benn
>take it, he battled back and won the fight.
>
>Secondly, Pazienza went to the middle of this fight, and Paz is smaller,
>has less power, and less skill than Benn.
>
>David
Actually David, Benn didn't take McClellan's shots very well at all... maybe
you wern't looking when he almost got knocked out of the ring in the first
(or second, I forget) round! And to say Benn has more skill than Pazienza, if
you ask me in his last 2 fights he didn't seem to show much skill at all. He
was sloppy, throwing wild haymakers that rarely made it and didn't have a very
solid defence, something his opponent at the time didn't capitalize off of but
Jones surely would! I doubt Benn would last 7 rounds with Jones- he's out
speeded, out powered, and out skilled: Jones by TKO.
Steve Vivian
really big payday is nice incentive).
Instant analysis: The purse may be super, but the fight is one sided.
Jones will beat Benn like a bongo drum. Benn is a very tough guy, and
obviously very game; he's also improved over the years defensively. But
he's over his head--WAY over his head--in the ring with Jones.
cheers,
steve
David James Algranati
paulmck.ix...@ix.netcom.com
>In article <426216$3...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
> kor...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (David James Algranati) wrote:
>
>you wern't looking when he almost got knocked out of the ring in the first
>(or second, I forget) round! And to say Benn has more skill than Pazienza, if
>you ask me in his last 2 fights he didn't seem to show much skill at all. He
>was sloppy, throwing wild haymakers that rarely made it and didn't have a very
>solid defence, something his opponent at the time didn't capitalize off of but
>Jones surely would! I doubt Benn would last 7 rounds with Jones- he's out
>speeded, out powered, and out skilled: Jones by TKO.
>
If McClellan was a powder puff puncher, your assertion that "Benn didn't take
his shots very well at all" would be more significant. Included in his last 2
fights is McClellan, so he had enough skill to take an early knockout artist who
was in various top 10 pound-for-pound lists to the tragic 10th round.
Yes, Benn was knocked through the ropes, but if you check out how he came
back in the ring, he wasn't rubbery-legged or groggy, surprised and startled yes,
but not in a heap of trouble as was when Julian Jackson or some other of
McClellan's previous opponents were when they were hit. He took the shots
better than any boxer McClellan had ever fought. And being knocked down
(or out) early by McClellan was considered almost a given for any opponent he faced.
Benn did something that almost no boxing fan thought possible.
I don't know if he can beat Jones, but he is no Pazienza.
Paul
chris
>Actually David, Benn didn't take McClellan's shots very well at all... maybe
>you wern't looking when he almost got knocked out of the ring in the first
>(or second, I forget) round! And to say Benn has more skill than Pazienza, if
>you ask me in his last 2 fights he didn't seem to show much skill at all. He
>was sloppy, throwing wild haymakers that rarely made it and didn't have a very
>solid defence, something his opponent at the time didn't capitalize off of but
>Jones surely would! I doubt Benn would last 7 rounds with Jones- he's out
>speeded, out powered, and out skilled: Jones by TKO.
>
Accuatlly Benn nearly fall through the ropes from the ring right
on to the press people in the first round.
He took the shots very well, as I know no other boxer
1. to be still able to stand on the feet,
2. to defend himself, and
3. to win the fight within the distance.
McClellan (best wishes!) was short before a knock out before the fight
was stopped, he was catching for air through his mouth piece while fighting.
So what makes youz so sure that Benbn has only at least 7 rounds.
best wishes
Chris from Berlin
Boxing down the wall
Matador
>
>I seem to remember similar things being said about Benn before his
>showdown with Gerald McClellan. Unfortunately I have never seen
>Jones fight, can anybody give me some sort of comparison between him
>and McClellan at the peak of his career.
Jones is lighting fast, maybe the fastest and quickest fighter in the world
today. He is very cocky, but has the tools to back it up. He enters the ring
garbed in some costume and usually does a dance to some heavy rap song.
Physically he is not as thick as Benn, but is very lean and has no fat on him
at all. He has never been hurt or in any kind of trouble, because he has never
been hit hard. Jones always avoids any kind of exchange that might lead to him
taking a punch. Pazienza is the only man I know who hit Jones with any
regularity.
Jones doesn't run like Whitaker, however, he just bounces on his toes with his
hands held high and out in front of him amateur style. He shouldn't be able to
generate much power from that stance, but somehow he does. I think his speed is
the key. It allows him to get away with all of his awkward and irregular moves.
Jones always enters the ring in excellent shape. I have never seen him sucking
for air, no matter how much activity there is.
Benn will not be seeing a McClellan at all. Gerald stood flat footed and fired
bombs. Jones will probably not hit as hard, but will be much harder to hit. I
have seen Nigel fight, and his speed is no match for Jones'.
Jones' only weak points are his chin, which has never been tested so we really
don't know, and his hands, which have a reputation for being very fragile.
Hope this answers some of your question.
Joe Talmadge
> I seem to remember similar things being said about Benn before his
> showdown with Gerald McClellan. Unfortunately I have never seen
> Jones fight, can anybody give me some sort of comparison between him
> and McClellan at the peak of his career.
Jones has excellent power, but despite what you may hear, his power
isn't quite what McClellan's was. Jones does have blazing speed
however. And something missing from McClellan's aresenal: a world
class defense. Also, Jones' attack is more complex than McClellan's;
he presents some strange angles.
eet...@zippy.dct.ac.uk
> In article <423t6p$1...@hawk.ee.port.ac.uk>, Dave Black <bla...@sci2.scii.port.ac.uk> says:
>> Nigel Benn has been promised a dream £33m showdown with Roy Jones.
>> (some stuff deleted)
>> This superfight is starting to look good.
>>
>> Dave Black
>
>
> Lets hope so.. Its the only fight I see for Jones, that will give
> him a decent workout! With all due respect to Benn , I dont see
> Him lasting 6 Rounds with Roy Jones!
>
> Scott T "the Dog"
I seem to remember similar things being said about Benn before his
showdown with Gerald McClellan. Unfortunately I have never seen
Jones fight, can anybody give me some sort of comparison between him
and McClellan at the peak of his career.
Benn is a great fighter and should never be underestimated.
Stewart.
Matador
ma...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("David Jackson") wrote:
>>
>>
>I dont think thats quite what benn meant,
I know, I was making reference to other fights on british soil.
>if he does fight jones I think
>it will be the fight of the century.
Too late, that already happened in 1970.
Matador
Mr Nobody <nob...@logica.com> wrote:
>mat...@crl.com (Matador) wrote:
>
>>[Jones] Physically he is not as thick as Benn, but is very lean and has no
fat on him
>
>I'm not too sure what you mean by thick,
What I mean is I remember the close up shot of Benn climbing back into the ring
and I was impressed by the thickness of Benn's torso.
but I've seen Jones
>and he looks like an AWESOME physical specimen. He has huge
>biceps and abs and to me seems "bigger" than Benn.
Like I said, Jones is more cut, but I think Benn has a larger body. It is hard
to tell until they stand next to each other.
>
>I always thought that people with way too much muscle were
>a bit stiff and slow but Jones completely blows that theory away.
I don't think Jones has that much muscle, just very well defined.
lo...@you.pitiful.bastard
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Like I said, he's still out speeded, out powered and out skilled. I really
don't think anyone out there can put Benn ahead of Jones in any of those three
categories. Jones will either catch careless Benn with a good shot or break
him down midway through the fight, there is absolutly no way Benn will win
(what certainty :) ).
>
>best wishes
>Chris from Berlin
>Boxing down the wall
>
What are some other people's opinions on this fight?
khufu.
David Jackson
> >
> > Benn said: "Facing Jones is my ultimate dream and i would
> > prefer it to be in his own backyard. "I just love fighting in a
> > hostile
> > atomspere
> >
>
> Sorry, Benn, but if by hostile environment you mean getting tons of
> garbage thrown at you should you win, then you are coming to the wrong
> place.
>
>
is under pressure or in someone elses "back yard". benn needs a real good
scrap to bring out the "destoyer" in him. if he does fight jones I think
DJ
Bob Sheleg
>Jones fight, can anybody give me some sort of comparison between him
>and McClellan at the peak of his career.
My answer: I can't. I've only seen Jones's last three fights. May be
strange for a Yank, but I've seen more Benn fights. My comment follows.
Watching Jones fight kind of gives me the hebe-geebys. It's not natural.
Jones's style is nothing special. From what I've seen (and heard others
say) there's no way to tell if he has a heart or a chin. He seems a
pretty average 33 and 1/3 boxer that some damn fool cranked up to 78.
He doesn`t have to run. There's little chance of hitting him even when
he stands right in front of you. (Sometimes he runs anyway though).
During the Pazienza fight, I had to laugh when (between rounds and
apparently unable to think of anything else to say) his corner told
him "good defense in there". Yah, I'd say never getting hit is pretty
good defense.
I've heard his hands are "fragile". I think if they were, he'd be
retired and wearing hooks by now. It's just that anything moving
that fast is bound to break *something* when it connects. I'm not
talking good technique, or muscle, or power. Just raw blinding speed.
My guess is Roy could only lose after breaking his hands on Nigel's
head. I don't find that likely. What's the old joke? The only way
he loses is if a bolt of lightening strikes him during the intro??
With Jones, it's even-money the lightening misses.
Bob Sheleg
PS maybe add smart, amazing conditioning, does his homework, and
wants too desparately to be known as the greatest to take opponents
lightly. Just IMO.
"I've heard of fighting out of your class, but never out of your species."
...that Barbara Striesand boxing movie.
Mr Nobody
>[Jones] Physically he is not as thick as Benn, but is very lean and has no fat on him
I'm not too sure what you mean by thick, but I've seen Jones
and he looks like an AWESOME physical specimen. He has huge
biceps and abs and to me seems "bigger" than Benn.
I always thought that people with way too much muscle were
a bit stiff and slow but Jones completely blows that theory away.
Simon.
---
la...@logica.com
David Jackson
^
>
> Like I said, he's still out speeded, out powered and out skilled. I
> really don't think anyone out there can put Benn ahead of Jones in any
> of those three categories. Jones will either catch careless Benn with a
> good shot or break him down midway through the fight, there is
> absolutly no way Benn will win (what certainty :) ).
>
fight to often if you think jones will break him down, its when benn is
pressured that he does his best work, I think benn can do it, it
certainly wont be a walkover for jones.
DJ
DscribeDC
1. No one can match Jones for speed and strength.
2. At his best, Benn is not a skilled boxer. The Brit press made a fuss
over the "new Benn" a few years ago, and this cautious style is easy to
carry off against barely-breathing European "competition," but the
McClellan fight showed how Benn responds to a slugger. He reverts to old
habits. That bodes ill for the Destroyer.
3. Benn has demonstrated a pretty frail chin over the years (Watson,
Eubank, round one of McClellan, etc.). If the rock-chinned Vinny Paz
can't stand up to RJ, Benn won't either.
4. Benn is coming off a career-defining war. Jones has not seemed to
have a tough fight yet.
Jones by TKO in 8.
Dave G.
Matador
ma...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("David Jackson") wrote:
>>
>outspeeded maybe, but outpowered no way,
I agree, Benn has more power. I also think it WILL be a walkover for Jones.
lo...@you.pitiful.bastard
Yes I've seen Benn fight before and yes I still think Jones will out power
him. The thing is, Benn's way to sloppy. He may have caught MCclellen with
some of his wild-ass haymakers but Jones doesn't stand flat-footed. If Benn
even tries to throw those big shots he'll just be asking Jones to cath him
with a hot one. And if he doesn't catch him then yes he will break Benn down
over the distance, just like he did Paz... Jones killed him with jabs and
follow-ups.
khufu.
pliesenberg on BIX
re: Jones vs Benn
Some good comments have been made here. I also believe that
Jones style may be the one that Benn has his biggest problems
with. Benn always has trouble with good movers and is at his
best in a slugfest (although always damnably close to disaster
in those).
Remember Benn versus Watson? Watson neatly avoided Benn's
best punches, taking them to gloves and arms, and then picked
Benn apart with just a few accurate punches. Mind you, that
was a different Benn, but surely Jones has the tools to
execute that strategy as well.
Then again, Jones has never faced someone who strikes back
as desperately as Benn when he's in trouble. Jones is used
to people wilting when he turns on the pressure. Like
McClellan was. And Jones hands down strategy may make him
vulnerable to a "crowder" like Benn.
It is an intriguing matchup. That all said, I think I'd go
with Jones. It'll be a real test for Jones, a tougher one than
the Toney fight, and he better come ready. But Jones looked
so superior in the Toney fight, so complete and powerful, and
Benn's looked so vulnerable in other fights, that the logical
outcome seems to be Jones.
By KO.
...paul
David Jackson
>
> >if he does fight jones I think
> >it will be the fight of the century.
>
>
>
>
the century it has not happened yet?
DJ
Matador
>> >it will be the fight of the century.
>>
>> Too late, that already happened in 1970.
>>
>>
>>
>now this statement baffles me,
Not surprising, it has to do with boxing and boxing history. "The Fight of the
Century" or just "The Fight" was Frazier vs. Ali in 1970.
There can be only one.
Matador
wallace <71333...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>Jones vs Benn is an intriguing match up primarily because we'll
>probably get to see the strength of Jones' chin for the first time.
>If Jones can be knocked down then you have the potential for one
>of the all time great fights with multiple knockdowns and Jones
>prevailing. We know Benn can get up from a big hit, but Jones
>speed and power is almost certainly too much.
I think I saw a clue as to how Nigel plans to beat Roy Jones. Jones may have
the edge in speed and natural ability, but Benn has the entrance wrapped up.
Sheesh! To think this is a bloody, savage sport.
BTW, it won't be a factor with Jones, since he never clinches, but wouldn't
Nigel's sharp, hard hair get into some opponents eyes?
Also BTW, You Brits can keep your paper champion Bruno, I saw what your ring
card girls. We definitely have you beat where it matters.
wallace
David Jackson
>
> BTW, it won't be a factor with Jones, since he never clinches, but
> wouldn't Nigel's sharp, hard hair get into some opponents eyes?
>
> Also BTW, You Brits can keep your paper champion Bruno, I saw what your
> ring card girls. We definitely have you beat where it matters.
>
said lately, also I have a request, can you stop crying on telly, first
we had to put up with SCOTT(scared little bunny) O'GRADY crying hes eyes
out and then we had to put up with mccall making his way to the ring
sobbing like a baby, please american people stop crying.
DJ
Matador
>> wouldn't Nigel's sharp, hard hair get into some opponents eyes?
>>
>> Also BTW, You Brits can keep your paper champion Bruno, I saw what your
>> ring card girls. We definitely have you beat where it matters.
>>
>paper champion, would'nt be sour grapes would it after all you guys have
>said lately,
No. First off, if you will look back, I wanted Bruno to win. Secondly,
everything I said is still true: Bruno can't go the distance and I am amazed
not one Brit was outraged at how blatantly he was allowed to hold on for dear
life. "You're holding, you're holding Bruno." Tell him something he didn't
know, or better yet take a point away like you are supposed to. Perez, you
STILL suck.
>also I have a request, can you stop crying on telly, first
>we had to put up with SCOTT(scared little bunny) O'GRADY
I have no idea what you are talking about or who this is.
>out and then we had to put up with mccall making his way to the ring
>sobbing like a baby, please american people stop crying.
Maybe he got smoke in his eyes from that beyond cheesy entrance extravaganza.
Phil Worsley
Before the McClennan fight every American who posted a message on this group
said Benn was going to eat canvas, and they were well wrong. Ok Benn got
caught early on, but his strategy in that fight once he got into it was
superb. Everytime McClennan sent a punch Benn neatly avoided it and smacked
him on the head. The same set of movements over and over.
I haven't seen Roy Jones fight, but thats probably because non-satelite
British people don't get to see an awful lot of American boxing, and I doubt
the US gets to see all our matches either. I reckon if Benn gets his strategy
right then he's got a good chance. I don't think any boxer could stand up to
too many of Benns heavy punches. Mind you he has to get them through.
It is interesting though, it seems to be the same people over and over again,
first saying McClennan would win, then saying that McCall would win, saying
Prince Naseem is going to lose (doubtful). Do these people now diddly squat
about boxing or do they just get a bit over excited about the
possibility of a non US boxer being better than one of their guys.
Phil.
Notable quote for the day.... America is No.1 for saying 'America is No.1'
Matador
>
>It is interesting though, it seems to be the same people over and over again,
>first saying McClennan would win,
First off, it is McClellan not McClennan. For some reason the British posters
here have a real problem spelling his name. Secondly, McClellan was well on his
way to an easy win until his health problems interfered. You will notice here
that not one poster said anything bad about Benn, and he most certainly didn't
cause the injuries McClellan sustained.
>then saying that McCall would win,
It wasn't just the Americans here, I think EVERYBODY thought Bruno was too old
to pull it off, and I really think with a ref who actually applied the written
rules of Boxing, Bruno would not have lasted 12 rounds.
> Do these people now diddly squat
>about boxing or do they just get a bit over excited about the
>possibility of a non US boxer being better than one of their guys.
Maybe it is just difficult to judge two different styles until they get into
the ring, so we favor the one we are most familiar with.
>Notable quote for the day.... America is No.1 for saying 'America is No.1'
After so many years, we just got used to it. And if you will notice, most of
the obnoxious post after a Brit won a fight were started by "fans" in the UK.
Also if you notice, most people here wanted Bruno to win.
BTW, good post.
David Jackson
> >also I have a request, can you stop crying on telly, first
> >we had to put up with SCOTT(scared little bunny) O'GRADY
>
> I have no idea what you are talking about or who this is.
>
DJ
Kenny Green
>Ok I must admit I'm British and biased, but I reckon Benn has a decent chance.
>Before the McClennan fight every American who posted a message on this group
>said Benn was going to eat canvas, and they were well wrong. Ok Benn got
>caught early on, but his strategy in that fight once he got into it was
>superb. Everytime McClennan sent a punch Benn neatly avoided it and smacked
>him on the head. The same set of movements over and over.
>
>I haven't seen Roy Jones fight, but thats probably because non-satelite
>British people don't get to see an awful lot of American boxing, and I doubt
>the US gets to see all our matches either. I reckon if Benn gets his strategy
>right then he's got a good chance. I don't think any boxer could stand up to
>too many of Benns heavy punches. Mind you he has to get them through.
>
>about boxing or do they just get a bit over excited about the
>possibility of a non US boxer being better than one of their guys.
>
>
>Notable quote for the day.... America is No.1 for saying 'America is No.1'
Phil I live in England and I am in NY now for a couple of months. I also
follow boxing across the two countries. Yes Americans can be arrogant
about their boxers, but historically they have every right. As for Jones
vs Benn, I think that if you haven't seen him it is difficult to convey
how good I and many others think this guy is. The problem for Benn is that
he likes slugfests but he won't get quite that against Jones.
Jones is quicker than anyone Benn has faced and frankly I think
the fight will be good for introducing Jones to you guys. Some people
like Hagler, Leonard, Tyson, are not about hype, and Jones belongs
IMHO to that club (or will confirm entry to that club then).
That WBC fight was about limited skills encountering limited skills,
with strength winning the day. The analysis from a lot of the US
guys was nearly right, ala if Bruno did not get Mccall earlier then Mccall
would wear him down and knock him out. Mccall did not show the
requisite skill to do so, but Bruno was basically out on his feet for
the last two rounds.
Probably there needs to be more active posting between US/UK
fans as there is mutual ignorance when it comes to certain fighters.
I've written before on Hamed, and consider him overrated. However,
English fight fans see him fight a procession of stiffs and get told
how good he is. He is talented, but he is yet to meet anyone of note.
wallace
is that he has ungodly quick hands and he throws them from every angle.
Ironically based on what I read about Naseem, this is very similar. So,
think of Naseem as a Super Middleweight and that is Jones. (Sure I may
be giving Hamed too much credit but the more I think about it their
respective fight descriptions are a lot alike.)
I have no doubt that Jones will put Benn down, the question is what happens
to Jones when Benn gets back up and nails him on the chin. You know, I can't think of a fight I'd like to see more than this one. Hill vs Maske, is close
though <g>
Scott_Campbell
Being englich and fron London (originally) then I'm obviously
biased..SORRY!
But Jones is a AWESOME pound for pound fighter but Benn has proved he is
a warrior and can stand the power of a man like Jones.
PREDICTION: Either Benn will get sloppy an d get nailed but get up to
hang on and learn he can't make mistakes or he would have done his
homework (which he needs to do!) and realise he has to tighten his
defense and cut Jones down from the body and then test Jones' chin.
Either way an excellent fight with Benn just taking it!
--
The opinions expressed in this communication are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
David Jackson
> > Do these people now diddly squat
> >about boxing or do they just get a bit over excited about the
> >possibility of a non US boxer being better than one of their guys.
>
> into the ring, so we favor the one we are most familiar with.
>
> No.1'
> most of the obnoxious post after a Brit won a fight were started by
> "fans" in the UK. Also if you notice, most people here wanted Bruno to
> win.
>
> BTW, good post.
>
boxing now.
DJ
David Jackson
>
> Probably there needs to be more active posting between US/UK
> fans as there is mutual ignorance when it comes to certain fighters.
> I've written before on Hamed, and consider him overrated. However,
> English fight fans see him fight a procession of stiffs and get told
> how good he is. He is talented, but he is yet to meet anyone of note.
he is soon to meet steve robinson, then we will be able to judge him
better.
DJ
lo...@you.pitiful.bastard
Andrew Scott Miller <a...@st-andrews.ac.uk> wrote:
>On 1 Sep 1995, David James Algranati wrote:
>
>>
>> Scott, when you make a statement that is so counter-intuitive, please
>> support it.
>>
>> Reason would lead one to think Benn could most definately last 6 with
>> Jones (amoung other things).
>>
>> Firstly, Benn took McClellan's shots, which are most likely more powerful
>> (probably significantly more powerful) than Jones'. Not only did Benn
>> take it, he battled back and won the fight.
>>
>> Secondly, Pazienza went to the middle of this fight, and Paz is smaller,
>> has less power, and less skill than Benn.
>>
>> David
>
>
>OK, I may be flag waving, but I agree. Benn is probably THE toughest
>fighter of his weight around. He is most likely outskilled by fighters like
>Jones, I don't deny it, but lately he seems to be able to take on almost
>any sort of attack and I think this alone could be enough to help him win.
>He probably isn't as flamboyant as some guys, but I could easily seem him
>out-powering and outlasting a Jones onslaught - would definitely make
>interesting viewing. Naseem Hamed on the other hand would have both for
>breakfast.....
>
>
> Andrew S. Miller
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> School of Biological and Medical Sciences
> University of St Andrews
> St Andrews, Fife, KY16 9TS
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
I don't think you guys understand the meaning of being able to "take a punch".
Being able to take a punch is when your hit with some serious power shots and
manage to STAY UP... not get knocked down then get back up again. I
guess you can give'em credit for being able to clear his head but not for
taking a punch. Get a copy of the Bowe-Holifield fights and you'll know what
I'm talking about.
khufu.
Andrew Scott Miller
Matador
ma...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("David Jackson") wrote:
>I have seen jones fight and nassem and your right they are very much
>alike, so putting it another way, think of jones but smaller and you have
>naseem, who incidently has he's toughest fight to date soon, when he
>takes on robinson who is a tough cooky, but a I think the "prince will
>get a late stoppage.
I am really curious to see him fight. I hope for his sake he is better than
Tzyuu, although Tzyu is definitely entertaining. When is Konsta fighting again
anyhow?
Matador
>>
>The "Fight" actually took place in March of 1971.
Yes, but the Frazier Left hook in the 15th sent Ali back a year.
Bruno missed that historic shot, though. He was only 9 at the time, and fell
asleep after the 10th.
David Jackson
alike, so putting it another way, think of jones but smaller and you have
naseem, who incidently has he's toughest fight to date soon, when he
takes on robinson who is a tough cooky, but a I think the "prince will
get a late stoppage.
DJ
sexton_marc
>In article <DEAup...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
>>> >it will be the fight of the century.
>>>
>>> Too late, that already happened in 1970.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>now this statement baffles me,
>
>Not surprising, it has to do with boxing and boxing history. "The Fight of the
>Century" or just "The Fight" was Frazier vs. Ali in 1970.
>
>There can be only one.
>
kid back then and I still couldn't believe that Ali lost. SNIFF!
One of my dad's friends lost $500 (big bucks back then) on Ali
so he was also crying.
fiend
--
"Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!"
Howard Cosell - 1st round of Foreman KO2 Frazier; 1973
Dave Black
>
>
>
> Nigel Benn has been promised a dream Ł33m showdown with Roy Jones.
>
> Don King is pulling out all the stops to pitch Dark Destroyer Benn
> against IBF super-middleweight champion Jones.
Benn said a very interesting thing after his fight with Perez on sky
sports about wanting to fight Jones, he said: "i want to go out of boxing
the way i came in.....punching...this will be may last fight. I'm not
going to box Jones because he'll jab my head off, i'm going to war
with him. I don't care if i win, lose or draw i'm going out punching.
I don't think Benn was hyping the fight, it came from the heart. The
last line makes Benn a VERY dangerous man in my book.
Dave Black
Derrick Brasslett
OK, the suspense is killing me -- who the hell is Scott O'Grady?
Or do you mean Sean O'Grady (sp?), former lightweight champ?
Derrick
> DJ
monte christensen
>
>Roy Jones should win a nasty, brutish and short slugfest because:
>
>1. No one can match Jones for speed and strength.
>
Agreed but Jones has never been hit very hard. How do we know what his
chin will be like. Toney was a fairly hard puncher but never really
attacked Jones very much.
>2. At his best, Benn is not a skilled boxer. The Brit press made a fuss
>over the "new Benn" a few years ago, and this cautious style is easy to
>carry off against barely-breathing European "competition," but the
>McClellan fight showed how Benn responds to a slugger. He reverts to old
>habits. That bodes ill for the Destroyer.
Benn showed more skill in the Mclellan fight than I thought he had. He
also boxed fairly well against Eubank in their 2nd fight. He is basically
a slugger but can fight if he has to.
>3. Benn has demonstrated a pretty frail chin over the years (Watson,
>Eubank, round one of McClellan, etc.). If the rock-chinned Vinny Paz
>can't stand up to RJ, Benn won't either.
>
That was a pretty common belief that Benn had a weak chin. But nobody
else had even come close to standing up to the Gman. I know Benn was in
trouble in the 1st round but he did get back up. Maybe he got a little
break but he beat the count of 10 and that is all that counts in boxing.
He came back to win the 2nd round after that. He was also down one more
time in the fight but kept coming back. That was one of the most hard
fought wins I have ever seen in boxing.
Pazineza doesn't have that great of a chin. He got knocked down by Duran.
He also went up in weight from 130 -> 168. He was a joke.
>4. Benn is coming off a career-defining war. Jones has not seemed to
>have a tough fight yet.
>
I agree but Benn has had many more big fights than Jones and more
experience. He knows what it is like to dig down hard for 12 rounds.
Jones had an easy time with Toney who was out of shape.
>Jones by TKO in 8.
>
I see Jones with a TKO9 but I think Benn has a real good shot to win this
fight. I wouldn't make Jones more than a 4-1 favorite and more likely he
will be around 3-1.
>Dave G.
--
Monte Christensen
email : mon...@microsoft.com
Matador
>
>OK, the suspense is killing me -- who the hell is Scott O'Grady?
>
>Or do you mean Sean O'Grady (sp?), former lightweight champ?
He meant Scott O'Grady, the pilot shot down over Sorryjevo. I can't imagine why
he would be in tears after facing death and finally being able to see his
family again.
Matador
>Matador (mat...@crl.com) wrote:
> However, McCall should have got going earlier in the fight and then
>the result would not have been decided by who could cling on and smother
>the most.
I think he would have got going earlier if he hadn't been eating those strong,
quick Bruno jabs. And I thought the early rounds were quite entertaining.
David Jackson
> >alike, so putting it another way, think of jones but smaller and you
> have >naseem, who incidently has he's toughest fight to date soon, when
> he >takes on robinson who is a tough cooky, but a I think the "prince
> will >get a late stoppage.
>
>
> than Tzyuu, although Tzyu is definitely entertaining. When is Konsta
> fighting again anyhow?
>
DJ
David Jackson
>
> >>
> >The "Fight" actually took place in March of 1971.
>
>
>
> Bruno missed that historic shot, though. He was only 9 at the time, and
> fell asleep after the 10th.
>
DJ
David Jackson
> > > >we had to put up with SCOTT(scared little bunny) O'GRADY
> > >
> > > I have no idea what you are talking about or who this is.
> > >
> > you mean you have never heard of scott o'grady?
>
>
> Or do you mean Sean O'Grady (sp?), former lightweight champ?
>
>
>
> > DJ
>
sorry got sidetracked there, I meant o'grady the pilot who got shot down
over bosnia, I must have seen that guy 9 (yeh count them) times on
different occasions on TV, and he was crying every time.
DJ
monte christensen
>
>Ok I must admit I'm British and biased, but I reckon Benn has a decent chance.
>Before the McClennan fight every American who posted a message on this group
>said Benn was going to eat canvas, and they were well wrong. Ok Benn got
>caught early on, but his strategy in that fight once he got into it was
>superb. Everytime McClennan sent a punch Benn neatly avoided it and smacked
>him on the head. The same set of movements over and over.
>
Not only are you British you are very unrealistic. Sure after the fact you can post
about how we were all wrong about Mclellan beating Benn. We could have said the
same thing when Mcall beat Lewis. Everyone in the UK thought Lewis would kill
Mcall. This just doesn't mean anything. If you want to put up your predictions do
so before the fight and not after the fight. I can predict fights with 100%
accuracy after they happen. But I do also believe that Benn certainly has a chance
in this fight. What % chance is the key question. I would say he has about a
25-33% chance to win this fight. That would make the odds from 3-1 to 2-1.
>I haven't seen Roy Jones fight, but thats probably because non-satelite
>British people don't get to see an awful lot of American boxing, and I doubt
>the US gets to see all our matches either. I reckon if Benn gets his strategy
>right then he's got a good chance. I don't think any boxer could stand up to
>too many of Benns heavy punches. Mind you he has to get them through.
>
Benn certainly has had 2 very good fights in the last 2 years. He beat Eubank in
their 2nd fight by popular opinion. I thought he fought very good in this fight but
was a little cautious. Boxed more than usual. But then in the Mclellan fight he
came out slugging. He was seriously hurt in that fight but anyone who ever got hit
by the GMan was hurt. But he was the only one to get back up and fight back.
>It is interesting though, it seems to be the same people over and over again,
>first saying McClennan would win, then saying that McCall would win, saying
>Prince Naseem is going to lose (doubtful). Do these people now diddly squat
>about boxing or do they just get a bit over excited about the
>possibility of a non US boxer being better than one of their guys.
We aren't the only ones. Lets talk about the people who have something at risk.
The British book makers had Mclellan listed as a 4-1 favorite over Benn? And mcall
was about a 8/5 -> 2/1 favorite over Bruno. THose are reasonable odds. It was
reasonable to expect that Mcall would win. He wasn't for sure to win but probably
had a small advantage over Bruno overall ( comparing before the fight of course ).
As far as Prince Nasem Hamed goes we just don't know. He has a pretty tough fight
coming up with Robinson. He hasn't fought any top 10 fighters yet that I know of.
I would say he has very good skills but is he better than Kennedy McKinney. I would
pick McKinney in a fight right now after seeing them both fight. Could he take
Barerra? I would pick him in a very close UD over Barerra. I just think that we
tried to point out that he hasn't beaten top fighters yet. Some UK ( not you but
others ) were claiming him the P4P best. People like Whitaker, Jones, DLH,
Trinidad, and Lopez have beaten 2-3 top notch fighters to get there.
I personally think that Britian has the best fighters right now they have ever had.
But most would agree that British fighters are not nearly as accomplished as
fighters from the US and Mexico. If you compared the records of every championship
fight between a US fighter and a British fighter I would guess that the US fighters
have won well over 70% ( but I am just guessing at that number). That is the only
facts we have about who has the best fighters from the past.
If you really think that Benn is going to beat Jones then you should be happy to
walk up to the nearest bookmaker and make a LARGE bet on Benn. You will be getting
at least 2-1 on something you think is higher than 50% chance.
I think you over-react about British fighters. If you would have taken a poll about
how many thought that Lewis was going to beat Phil Jackson I would guess that 95% of
us would have picked Lewis. I also think that at least 80% of us would have picked
him over Mcall and probably 70% would pick him over Morrison. In the cases that you
talk about the Brish bookmakers also had the US fighters as the favorite.
Boxing is something that you can only make a VERY rough guestimate at what might
happen. That should be done by comparing the skills of the 2 fighters and have very
little to do with nationality.
>
>Phil.
>
>Notable quote for the day.... America is No.1 for saying 'America is No.1'
--
Monte Christensen
email : mon...@microsoft.com
Thomas Jordan
: No. First off, if you will look back, I wanted Bruno to win. Secondly,
: everything I said is still true: Bruno can't go the distance and I am amazed
: not one Brit was outraged at how blatantly he was allowed to hold on for dear
: life. "You're holding, you're holding Bruno." Tell him something he didn't
: know, or better yet take a point away like you are supposed to.
Hey! Me! Me ! I'm a Brit and I noticed how much he was holding on. I
thought it was so obvious it wasn't worth commenting on and the fight was
crap anyway. If Bruno had not held on like that he would have been knocked
out. However, McCall should have got going earlier in the fight and then
the result would not have been decided by who could cling on and smother
the most.
--
T. P. Jordan,
Research Assistant,
Networks Research Group,
De Montfort University
Leicester
Email: t...@uk.ac.dmu
Duncan Fullerton
: I haven't seen Roy Jones fight, but thats probably because non-satelite
: the US gets to see all our matches either. I reckon if Benn gets his strategy
: right then he's got a good chance. I don't think any boxer could stand up to
: too many of Benns heavy punches. Mind you he has to get them through.
I'd like to see Benn win too. But remember his fight against Michael
Watson? Watson had a rock solid defence and just allowed Benn to bang
away against it, picking him of from behind his jab, until Benn had
had enough.
Now I know that was a *long* time ago, in a differenct weight division,
but it shows what a canny tactical boxer could do against Benn. Mind
you no one has tried those tactics on Benn since except maybe Eubank
in Benn/Eubank I ...
--
Duncan Fullerton Email: dun...@sbil.co.uk
Salomon Brothers International Ltd. Voice: (+44) 0171 721 2663
London SW1W 0SB Fax: (+44) 0171 721 2605
Derrick Brasslett
>
> In article <42kbsb$5...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>,
>
> >
> >OK, the suspense is killing me -- who the hell is Scott O'Grady?
> >
> >Or do you mean Sean O'Grady (sp?), former lightweight champ?
>
> he would be in tears after facing death and finally being able to see his
> family again.
>
Whoops ... I had boxing on the brain, not current events (obviously!).
Yeah, definitly hard to figure why a guy just *might* be emotional after
an ordeal like that. I have a feeling they'd still be prying the
original poster out of the fetal position today, had it happened to
him. But it's pretty easy to be brave behind a keyboard.
Derrick
Matador
"MALCOLM I. OLDHAM" <o9...@hopi.dtcc.edu> wrote:
>I think that it would be rediculous to pay 33 million to these fighters.
> For one Nigel Benn is nothing but a bum, and Roy Jones is a world class
>fighter. Jones will kick his British butt all over the stinking ring.
>
I say, there go you bloomin' yanks poppin' off about wot you don't really know
anything about. A typically arrogant and crass expression from the colonies. No
wonder we call you the COLONies.
Our man Benn has done something your overtouted show boy has never done: fight.
Thas right, Jones spends his time running 'round the ring fighting has beens
and never was's while Benn stands fast and defends his honor and his
country like the man he is and Jones will never be.
As for making 33 million for a fight, your totally talented movie boys like
Stallone and Costner make more than that for a show and don't even take any
real punches.
Rob Wiese
>From: "MALCOLM I. OLDHAM" <o9...@hopi.dtcc.edu>
>Subject: Re: Benn vs Jones for 33 million!!
>Date: 7 Sep 1995 17:41:23 GMT
>I think that it would be rediculous to pay 33 million to these fighters.
> For one Nigel Benn is nothing but a bum, and Roy Jones is a world class
>fighter. Jones will kick his British butt all over the stinking ring.
You need to see some of Benns' fights and forget where he lives.
Rob
MALCOLM I. OLDHAM
Melanie Ley
ma...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("David Jackson") wrote:
>> Probably there needs to be more active posting between US/UK
>> fans as there is mutual ignorance when it comes to certain fighters.
>DJ
Hey! An intelligent comment! Good for you, DJ. I find it extremely
difficult to bash or praise someone I have never seen and I find it rather
offensive when someone bashes me for not praising someone I've never seen.
And until I have seen a fighter I refuse to comment on someone I have not
seen. Sorry - it's getting late. Grandma is going to bed now. 8-)
Mel
|\/| _ | ,_. _ | _
| |(/_|(||||(/_ |_(/_\/
/
------------------------------------
Grandma's do love boxing.
Just ask me!
------------------------------------
Thomas Jordan
: Also BTW, You Brits can keep your paper champion Bruno, I saw what your ring
: card girls. We definitely have you beat where it matters.
Nobody can hold a candle to you when it comes to brain-dead f**k-pieces.
- --
T. P. Jordan,
Research Assistant,
Networks Research Group,
De Montfort University
Leicester
Email: t...@uk.ac.dmu
Tel: (0533) 551551 x8099.
- Eric Cantona is innocent!
Phil Worsley
<o9...@hopi.dtcc.edu> writes:
>>From: "MALCOLM I. OLDHAM" <o9...@hopi.dtcc.edu>
>>Subject: Re: Benn vs Jones for 33 million!!
>>Date: 7 Sep 1995 17:41:23 GMT
>
>> For one Nigel Benn is nothing but a bum, and Roy Jones is a world class
>>fighter. Jones will kick his British butt all over the stinking ring.
>
Malcolm I. Oldham is the voice of reason, NOT. Who is this guy? If it wasn't
for his email address I'd think he was an AOL'er.
Unfortunately it's people like him that give the impression to us Brits that
the Americans are a bunch of self opinionated assholes who have bugger all
clue about anything.
I suppose that in any society there is a percentage of complete morons, I just
wish the US would keep them all on AOL.
Anyway Malcolm... go and ask mummy if she'll change your incontinence pants
and teach you how to spell ridiculous. You know who your mummy is don't you?
She's the one who wished she'd left you in the bucket.
P.
Notable fact for the day:- 17% of American College graduates said in a survey,
that they would hit themselves really hard in the face for 50 dollars. Aha...
Yo Malcolm! come here......I've got 50 cents for you.
David Jackson
> >
>
> Whoops ... I had boxing on the brain, not current events (obviously!).
>
> Yeah, definitly hard to figure why a guy just *might* be emotional after
> an ordeal like that. I have a feeling they'd still be prying the
> original poster out of the fetal position today, had it happened to
> him. But it's pretty easy to be brave behind a keyboard.
>
>
>
> Derrick
>
>
>
> > ( )______( )
> > \________/
> > (o )(o )
> > --UUUU-UUUU--
> > ___/\_________ / \ \
> > ___ \______ / \ M \
> > | / \ A \
> > ___ O\ | / \ T \
> > | / \ A \
> > ___ \ | / \ D \
> > \_|\_o| / \ O \
> > / \ R \
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
DJ
Thomas Jordan
: >
: > >if he does fight jones I think
: > >it will be the fight of the century.
: >
: > Too late, that already happened in 1970.
: >
: >
: >
: now this statement baffles me, how do you know it wont be the fight of
: the century it has not happened yet?
It's called Boxing Mythology, silly, as popularised by a load of fifty
year old, gin-addled hacks writing for boxing magazines.
having said that, I suppose I concur on 'the fight.'