Difference in accuracy using top

[Steve Barnes]

This is probably entirely a stroke technique issue but I'll ask anyway.

Why is it when I shoot bottom with left or right english I'm quite accurate,
but when I shoot top english with left or right, the squirt monstor rears
its ugly head?

I've tried different bridges (not to perpetuate the current thread), and I'm
equally comfortable with both open and closed. Shot speed - the problem
seems to be worse with more speed natch.

What really gets me is that my cue is even more level when shooting top (I
even conciously check to make sure..)

All that being said, I find if I nearly completely let go of the cue during
the hit, two things happen, the deflection isn't nearly as bad (still miss
though) and, the amount of spin I get on the ball goes up dramatically.

So last night, I go up to dwell on this a bit more.. and shoot 0-45 degree
full length table shots with top and english for about 30 minutes. No
problems whatsoever, with about the same hit/miss percentage as bottom
english. Afterwards, I play a buddy race to 9, and I start facing the same
problem again despite paying extra attention to the follow/english shots.

Sure makes it hard to live up to "draw for show, follow for dough".

Any ideas?

-Steve

[Trevor Justinen]

When I have this problem it is because I am trying to hit too high on the
cue ball. Try the same shots with 1-1.5 tips above center. I find that I
sometimes go higher on top than low on draw because there is nothing in the
way to stop you from cueing higher. On bottom the table provides a limit.

Comments?

"Steve Barnes" <bun...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:678P6.103$k07....@newsfeed.slurp.net...

[Mark0]

You trolling Trevor? :O)

I contend that the limit is the same (the miscue point).

Mark0 <--high AND inside english specialist

Trevor Justinen <tre...@tdgstaff.com> wrote in message
news:1%aP6.133$aR.1859@read1...

[Patrick Johnson]

Steve Barnes wrote:

> Why is it when I shoot bottom with left or right english I'm quite accurate,
> but when I shoot top english with left or right, the squirt monstor rears
> its ugly head?

Because when you hit low your stick is elevated more, causing more
"swerve" (a little masse from the downward side spin), which cancels
out some or all of the squirt for those shots. Hitting high, the
squirt isn't cancelled out (or not as much), so it looks like more
squirt. It's really just less swerve. You have to aim differently.

This also explains the difference between hard and soft shots. With
harder shots, the swerve doesn't have time to produce as much effect.

Pat Johnson
Chicago

[Patrick Johnson]

Trevor Justinen wrote:

> When I have this problem it is because I am trying to hit too high on the
> cue ball.

I don't believe hitting to high should cause more squirt, unless you
simply miscue.

> Try the same shots with 1-1.5 tips above center.

Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "1 tip", but if you mean
actually contacting the cue ball a half inch from center, that's a lot
of spin already. 3/4 inch ("1.5 tips") is miscue territory. It isn't
even possible to hit the cue ball 3/4 inch *below* center because the
table surface prevents it with most cues (unless you have a 10mm
snooker or carom tip maybe), yet you can easily miscue trying too much
draw even with an ordinary tip.

Pat Johnson
Chicago

[Trevor Justinen]

I agree the miscue point is the same. I am saying that the perception of
the point can be misleading because for bottom you have the table top as a
guide, for top there is nothing there to provide the same type of reference
point. Did I poorly explain this?? Why the troll comment? Personally with
bottom I just go a low as I can while with top I tend to measure as
suggested. Just trying to share how a decent B ish player contends with the
presented problem.

"Mark0" <poola...@mail.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:tgqfif6...@corp.supernews.com...

[Frank]

: > Try the same shots with 1-1.5 tips above center.

:
: Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "1 tip", but if you mean
: actually contacting the cue ball a half inch from center, that's a lot
: of spin already. 3/4 inch ("1.5 tips") is miscue territory. It isn't
: even possible to hit the cue ball 3/4 inch *below* center because the
: table surface prevents it with most cues (unless you have a 10mm
: snooker or carom tip maybe), yet you can easily miscue trying too much
: draw even with an ordinary tip.

Most tips are about 1/2" (or 13mm, some larger, some smaller). When
people say 1 tip, I think they really mean 1/2 tip. In other words: place
the bottom edge of the tip at the equator, thus 1 tip, but the center of
the tip is only 1/4" above center, so 1 1/2 tips is really 3/8", not 3/4".
Of course, I'm picking pepper out of flyshit, but then I tend to do that
sometimes.
Frank ;-}

[Steve Barnes]

Oddly enough, this actually makes sense to me.

I'll give it a whirl tomorrow afternoon (just came back from my 'lunch
break', guess I shoulda checked the NG before I left..)

Patrick Johnson <REMO...@21stCentury.net> wrote in message
news:3B0D42BC...@21stCentury.net...

[Mark0]

No offense meant--see the smiley? My point was the obviousness of the
miscue point being the same and your 'any ideas' closing.

I understood all you meant (the mental limitations of the bed for draw that
don't exist for follow) implicitly.

Cheers,
Mark0

Trevor Justinen <tre...@tdgstaff.com> wrote in message

news:Z6cP6.136$aR.1735@read1...

[Play4abuck]

Steve Barnes wrote in message <678P6.103$k07....@newsfeed.slurp.net>...

>This is probably entirely a stroke technique issue but I'll ask anyway.
>
>Why is it when I shoot bottom with left or right english I'm quite
accurate,
>but when I shoot top english with left or right, the squirt monstor rears
>its ugly head?
>
>I've tried different bridges (not to perpetuate the current thread), and
I'm
>equally comfortable with both open and closed. Shot speed - the problem
>seems to be worse with more speed natch.
>
>What really gets me is that my cue is even more level when shooting top (I
>even conciously check to make sure..)
>
>All that being said, I find if I nearly completely let go of the cue during
>the hit, two things happen, the deflection isn't nearly as bad (still miss
>though) and, the amount of spin I get on the ball goes up dramatically.

When you let go the cue (slip stroke) before the hit, you can not effluence
the hit with your body english or a poor follow through, so check your
stroke. I have tried this on some draws shots and it works great.

You should also check your grip hand, you may be gripping too far forward
thus at contact point you may be raising the butt causing your tip to dip
(which would probably not effect your shot when hitting low but more when
hitting high). Your grip hand should be pointing straight down at contact
point. A video tape by The Preacher recommends for maximum draw move your
grip hand forward a bit or for maximum follow move the grip hand back.

Cheers,
Jim

[Trevor Justinen]

Did not take that as a smiley face but as someone gasping at something
outrageous. (mouth open) my bad.

"Mark0" <poola...@mail.removethis.com> wrote in message

news:tgqmem5...@corp.supernews.com...

[dalecue]

Steve Barnes wrote in message <678P6.103$k07....@newsfeed.slurp.net>...

>This is probably entirely a stroke technique issue but I'll ask anyway.
>
>Why is it when I shoot bottom with left or right english I'm quite
accurate,
>but when I shoot top english with left or right, the squirt monstor rears
>its ugly head?
>

>Any ideas?
>
>-Steve

because you can slide a cue ball straighter than you can roll it

Dale<------who picked up that little bit of wisdom in a mere 20 years or so

[LAWLERJD]

I think it is just a matter of you having more practice with low right or low
left than you do with top left or top right. You probably should try and aim
easy shots with top right and left to make sure you are getting the cueball to
go where you want when using the high english.