The Verdict {One Man's Opinion} : Magnetic Longwire Balun Is Too Expensive
RHF
Expensive
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/feed/magbalun.html
-by- Alan Johnson
-source- Hard-Cord-DX website : http://www.hard-core-dx.com/
The Most Common Antenna Type
Randon Wire Antenna Problems
Enter the Balun
The Magnetic Longwire Balun (MLB)
In the Laboratory
After Four Rainy WeekEnds
I also did A-B Comparisons
* The Results
The "Resistance" Curve for the MLB
The N8KDV Transformer
A-B Testing was very Revealing.
* Recommenation
How Essential is a Perfect Match?
Based on Price and Performance
The MLB Definitely Wins
Originally Published in the NASWA Journal - July 1992
-by- Alan Johnson [N4LUS]
Magnetic Longwire Balun (MLB)
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/1484.html
http://www.dolstra.nl/Z&L-amateur/ANTENNES/rfsystems/MLB_1.JPG
http://www.remeeus.eu/english/hamradio/mlb.htm
http://ham.srsab.se/graphics/antennas/mlbII.jpg
-by- RF Systems - MSRP Price ~ $60
Alternative "MLB" - MLB-1 Magnetic Longwire Balun
http://www.palomar-engineers.com/MLB-1/mlb-1.html
-by- Palomar Engineers - MSRP Price ~ $50
NOTE - While the 'N8KDV Transformer' is presently Not Available.
WinRadio does offer the LWA-0130 Long Wire Antenna Adapter
http://www.grove-ent.com/WR0130.html
http://www.winradio.com/home/lwa.htm
http://www.winradio.com/home/ax05e.htm
-by- WiNRADiO - - MSRP Price ~ $40
READ - Good Deal on 9:1 Matching Transformer
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/27e40978fdc32ac0
-by- William Fieldstone
More WinRadio LWA-0130 Long Wire Antenna Adapter Postings
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a77d380609eec592
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/230
iane ~ RHF
.
David
[D]iane,
The point is to keep the feedpoint Z below the transmission line Z.
You're welcome.
Telamon
David <not...@nowhere.org> wrote:
What's the advantage of the feed-point Z being below the transmission
line Z?
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
mi...@sushi.com
> The Verdict {One Man's Opinion} : Magnetic Longwire Balun Is Too
> Expensive
>
> http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/feed/magbalun.html
>
> -by- Alan Johnson
>
> -source- Hard-Cord-DX website :http://www.hard-core-dx.com/
> The Most Common Antenna Type
> Randon Wire Antenna Problems
> Enter the Balun
> The Magnetic Longwire Balun (MLB)
> In the Laboratory
> After Four Rainy WeekEnds
> I also did A-B Comparisons
> * The Results
> The "Resistance" Curve for the MLB
> The N8KDV Transformer
> A-B Testing was very Revealing.
> * Recommenation
> How Essential is a Perfect Match?
> Based on Price and Performance
> The MLB Definitely Wins
>
> Originally Published in the NASWA Journal - July 1992
> -by- Alan Johnson [N4LUS]
>
> -by- RF Systems - MSRP Price ~ $60
>
> -by- Palomar Engineers - MSRP Price ~ $50
>
> NOTE - While the 'N8KDV Transformer' is presently Not Available.
> -by- WiNRADiO - - MSRP Price ~ $40
> -by- William Fieldstone
> More WinRadio LWA-0130 Long Wire Antenna Adapter Postingshttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a77d380609eec592http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/230
>
> iane ~ RHF
> .
I've got a Palomar magnetic balun sitting on my desk. Once I got the
Wellbrook, the magnetic balun became a paperweight.
RHF
> On Dec 18, 1:02 pm, RHF <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > The Verdict {One Man's Opinion} : Magnetic Longwire Balun Is Too
> > Expensive
>
> >http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/feed/magbalun.html
>
> > -by- Alan Johnson
>
> > -source- Hard-Cord-DX website :http://www.hard-core-dx.com/
> > The Most Common Antenna Type
> > Randon Wire Antenna Problems
> > Enter the Balun
> > The Magnetic Longwire Balun (MLB)
> > In the Laboratory
> > After Four Rainy WeekEnds
> > I also did A-B Comparisons
> > * The Results
> > The "Resistance" Curve for the MLB
> > The N8KDV Transformer
> > A-B Testing was very Revealing.
> > * Recommenation
> > How Essential is a Perfect Match?
> > Based on Price and Performance
> > The MLB Definitely Wins
>
> > Originally Published in the NASWA Journal - July 1992
> > -by- Alan Johnson [N4LUS]
>
> > -by- RF Systems - MSRP Price ~ $60
>
> > Alternative "MLB" - MLB-1 Magnetic Longwire Balunhttp://www.palomar-engineers.com/MLB-1/mlb-1.html
> > -by- Palomar Engineers - MSRP Price ~ $50
>
> > NOTE - While the 'N8KDV Transformer' is presently Not Available.
> > -by- WiNRADiO - - MSRP Price ~ $40
> > READ - Good Deal on 9:1 Matching Transformerhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/27e40978fdc32ac0
> > -by- William Fieldstone
>
> > iane ~ RHF
> > .
-
- I've got a Palomar magnetic balun sitting on my desk.
-
- Once I got the Wellbrook,
What specific Wellbrook Product ?
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/products.html
- - - i want to know ~ RHF
- the magnetic balun became a paperweight.
Telamon
<telamon_spamshield-4...@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
Telamon <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
OK I'll answer it. None.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
David
Less pinching in the midriff...
There's a rule.
Telamon
David <not...@nowhere.org> wrote:
OK here is the rule, when you have an impedance mismatch by some ratio
it does not matter which system element is higher or lower so for
example if the coax transmission line is 50 ohms and the antenna
impedance is 25 or 75 ohms the result is the same amount of reflected
power. 25 ohms and 75 ohms are equivalent in this regard. One is not a
better situation than the other.
Take an extreme case of this where you have either a short or the coax
is open with nothing connected on that end. In either case if you were
to send RF power to the open or short end of the cable you would have
100% reflected power. The returned phase of the that power would be 90
degrees different though.
This is different situation then DC current where the open and short
would have very different consequences.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
mi...@sushi.com
> - - - i want to know ~ RHF
>
> - the magnetic balun became a paperweight.
I'm using the old ALA 100 and various home made loops. You need about
8ft of loop to make the ALA100 useful, though as a NDB direction
finder 4ft seems to work better. For shortwave DXpeditions, I've used
as much as 40ft in portable applications.
The thing about the ALA100 is you get a good piece of electronics that
allows hacking. That is, you make the loop. The other thing you notice
once you use a wellbrook is that the S-meter really isn't that
significant. Once in a while you will get a higher reading on the s-
meter with a long wire than the wellbrook, especially if your loop is
short, but the quality of the signal on the wellbrook is superior.
One of the oddest DX catches I got with the 20ft loop is
http://www.lazygranch.com/sound/lax_530_etgravel.wav
I was parked on "the gravel"
N37.43225 W115.44496
near Area 51. I did a search for unknown NDBs, which I did find though
they are now turned off. The next search was to see if they had any
TIS. Now TIS is not all that odd at military installations, though I
doubted Groom Lake would have one. Searching the typical TIS
frequencies I picked up the TIS for LAX. That is about 280 miles away.
However, you need to realize how "quiet" Central Nevada is regarding
RF. Even in the middle of MOAs and next to the largest continental
military reservation, there is much less hash than even a mid-size
town puts out.
Wellbrook is pretty mysterious about what they put in their boxes. The
units themselves are potted, though that wouldn't stop anyone serious
about copying their gear.What you need to realize is how little
product they ship. Comparing serial numbers with my ala100 and a
friends, we figured they were shipping about one a month to North
America. In other words, If they had a Wellbrook users convention, I
don't think they would need to book it in Vegas. [There is a wellbrook
loop on the top of the Las Vegas convention center. ]
Anyway, most people think the ALA100 has a transformer on the front
end and a signle ended amp. The ALAM may be all active. I don't know
if that makes a difference in performance, but floating the antenna
seems like a good idea.
Unlike the KIWA, the Wellbrook is wideband. This is good in the sense
that you don't need to tune the antenna and the radio at the same
time, but it does require a decent radio since the antenna is not
doing any filtering.
msg
<snip>
>
> One of the oddest DX catches I got with the 20ft loop is
> http://www.lazygranch.com/sound/lax_530_etgravel.wav
> I was parked on "the gravel"
> N37.43225 W115.44496
> near Area 51. I did a search for unknown NDBs, which I did find though
> they are now turned off. The next search was to see if they had any
> TIS. Now TIS is not all that odd at military installations, though I
> doubted Groom Lake would have one. Searching the typical TIS
> frequencies I picked up the TIS for LAX. That is about 280 miles away.
> However, you need to realize how "quiet" Central Nevada is regarding
> RF. Even in the middle of MOAs and next to the largest continental
> military reservation, there is much less hash than even a mid-size
> town puts out.
<snip>
Wow, that is an amazing clip considering the circumstances. What was
the time of day and the date? Was this anomalous propagation?
Regards,
Michael
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article <13msqk327tl9...@corp.supernews.com>,> > > <telamon_spamshield-4BA970.18322218122...@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
> > > Telamon <telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> > >> In article <13mgvlnn7tol...@corp.supernews.com>,
? OK here is the rule, when you have an impedance mismatch
? by some ratio it does not matter which system element is
? higher or lower so for example if the coax transmission
? line is 50 ohms and the antenna impedance is 25 or 75 ohms
? the result is the same amount of reflected power.
? 25 ohms and 75 ohms are equivalent in this regard.
? One is not a better situation than the other.
Telamon,
Wouldn't it be the Ratios :
25 Ω Antenna to 50 Ω Coax ~ 1 : 2
50 Ω Coax to 100 Ω Antenna ~ 1 : 2
-vice- 50 Ω Coax to 75 Ω Antenna ~ 2 : 3 (1 : 1.5)
~ RHF
- Take an extreme case of this where you have either a short
- or the coax is open with nothing connected on that end.
- In either case if you were to send RF power to the open
- or short end of the cable you would have 100% reflected
- power. The returned phase of the that power would be 90
- degrees different though.
-
- This is different situation then DC current where the open
- and short would have very different consequences.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California
.
RHF
M...Sushi,
Glad that you like the Wellbrook ALA100 Loop Antenna
so much and that it meets your Radio Listening needs.
I would Expect the Wellbrook ALA100 Loop Antenna to out
perform the Palomar MLB-1 with a 100 Foot Antenna.
For $230 more in Cost and at ~ Five Times (5X) the price.
Wellbrook - ALA100/M L/M Aperture Loop Antenna
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/ALA100Ma.html
North American Version with PSU
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/buy.html
Price : $258.00 +S&H $30.00
Palomar Engineers - MLB-1 "Magnetic Longwire Balun"
http://www.palomar-engineers.com/MLB-1/mlb-1.html
Price : $50.00 +S&H $8.00
Plus for your Radio Listening interests and needs the
Welbrook is a whole lot more 'portable' then trying to
Erect a 100 Foot Wire Antenna on the Side of the Road.
~ RHF
.
mi...@sushi.com
> North American Version with PSUhttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/buy.html
> Price : $258.00 +S&H $30.00
>
> Palomar Engineers - MLB-1 "Magnetic Longwire Balun"http://www.palomar-engineers.com/MLB-1/mlb-1.html
> Price : $50.00 +S&H $8.00
>
> Plus for your Radio Listening interests and needs the
> Welbrook is a whole lot more 'portable' then trying to
> Erect a 100 Foot Wire Antenna on the Side of the Road.
>
> ~ RHF
> .
I bought my Wellbrook before the Bush Crime Family devalued the
dollar. Sure, we pay more money for high quality goods from the UK and
EU, but just think about the bargains we now get for the "cough cough"
made in China imports.
If it wasn't for the weak dollar, gas would cost about 30% less. Every
time those morons at the Fed cut interest rates, gas gets more
expensive.
mi...@sushi.com
I didn't log the call. The dates on my server are no longer when I did
the upload, so I would have to do some research to get the date I
recorded it. I think it was at night. Of course, I realized later that
to find a local LF source you should do this in the day. Even so, I
could received NDBs from Canada during daylight hours when out in the
Central Nevada desert.
The setup for that recording:
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop1.jpg
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop2.jpg
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop3.jpg
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop4.jpg
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop5.jpg
The black rods are tent poles. The plastic came from Tap Plastics. The
PVC is obvious. The base is an old patio umbrella stand. I have
another one twice as big, which is four time the aperture.
I suppose I should bring the gear out there again and see if I can
repeat the LAX TIS.
RHF
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dang "M" - Must be a lot of Mercury in the 'Sushi' you
been Eating cause it seems to have affected your Brain.
Lets Do The NUMB3RS ! ~ RHF
Factoring in a 42.5% Drop* since the beginning of the
Administration of President George "W" Bush in 2001.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_administration
Wellbrook - ALA100/M L/M Aperture Loop Antenna http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/ALA100Ma.html
North American Version with PSU
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/buy.html
In 2001 US Dollars the would be
US Price : $181 +S&H $21 = Total $ 202 US
Oops the Made-in-America Palomar Engineers
MLB-1 "Magnetic Longwire Balun"
http://www.palomar-engineers.com/MLB-1/mlb-1.html
In 2001 US Dollars the would still
be - Price : $50 +S&H $8 = Total $ 58 US
Which means that the Wellbrook would still be $144
more in Cost about Two and a Half Times (2.5X) the
price in 2001 US Dollars.
Now that $144 can buy a lot of Quality "Made-in-the-USA" :
Matching Transformers; Pure Copper Wire; and Coax Cable;
to make All American Wire Antennas with . . .
* Foreign Exchange Rate - U.K Pound -v- US Dollar
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/EXUSUK.txt
http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=579
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_sterling#The_pound_as_a_major_international_reserve_currency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar#Exchange_rates
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/nov2007/dollar_collapse.html
.
David
Low goes into high better than high goes into low. Reflected power does
no harm in a receive antenna. Try using your 300 Ohm antenna with a 50
Ohm transmission line. Then try using a 50 Ohm antenna with a 300 Ohm
transmission line. Which will receive better?
RHF
>
> > 50 Ù Coax to 100 Ù Antenna ~ 1 : 2
> > -vice- 50 Ù Coax to 75 Ù Antenna ~ 2 : 3 (1 : 1.5)
>
> > ~ RHF
>
> > - Take an extreme case of this where you have either a short
> > - or the coax is open with nothing connected on that end.
> > - In either case if you were to send RF power to the open
> > - or short end of the cable you would have 100% reflected
> > - power. The returned phase of the that power would be 90
> > - degrees different though.
> > -
> > - This is different situation then DC current where the open
> > - and short would have very different consequences.
> > -
> > - --
> > - Telamon
> > - Ventura, California
> > .
>
So then Transformer and Impedance Matchers 'only' Work
One Way in your World.
- Reflected power does no harm in a receive antenna.
YES - That is True.
Actually for a Receiving Antenna connected to a Radio
the 'Reflective Power' occurs at the Radio's Antenna
Input Circuitry. - That's Something to Think About !
- Try using your 300 Ohm antenna with a 50 Ohm
- transmission line.
Works for TV and FM Radio all the time using a
common 4:1 Matching Transformer.
- Then try using a 50 Ohm antenna with a 300 Ohm
- transmission line. Which will receive better?
With the properly designed Matching Transformer
that is properly installed it should work just
about as well as vice-versa.
idtars - tsialb ~ RHF
.
mi...@sushi.com
>
> Wellbrook - ALA100/M L/M Aperture Loop Antennahttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/ALA100Ma.html
> North American Version with PSUhttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/buy.html
> US Price : $181 +S&H $21 = Total $ 202 US
>
> Oops the Made-in-America Palomar Engineers
> MLB-1 "Magnetic Longwire Balun"http://www.palomar-engineers.com/MLB-1/mlb-1.html
> In 2001 US Dollars the would still
> be - Price : $50 +S&H $8 = Total $ 58 US
>
> Which means that the Wellbrook would still be $144
> more in Cost about Two and a Half Times (2.5X) the
> price in 2001 US Dollars.
>
> Now that $144 can buy a lot of Quality "Made-in-the-USA" :
> Matching Transformers; Pure Copper Wire; and Coax Cable;
> to make All American Wire Antennas with . . .
>
> .
The brain is just fine. The wellbrook is a combination of wideband
transformer and low noise amp, so you would expect it to cost more
than the magnetic balun, which is just the wideband transformer.
The nice thing about the wellbrook gear is you don't feel the urge to
upgrade. Bigger loops are better, but there are diminishing returns.
The other nice thing about wellbrook gear is it wprks well outside of
it's stated range. I've used it as low at about 24kHz. The bad thing
about Wellbrook gear is the cost. However, like I said, it is a very
low volume business. There are no cheap copies of their gear.
Some of the UK items have remain flat in price for the US market.
These guys took it in the shorts a bit. Wellbrook I guess isn't big
enough to eat that kind of loss.
The Bush Crime Family still has a year to screw up the dollar even
more. Maybe you should get that Wellbrook sooner than later. It will
take years to undo the damage caused by the Bush Crime Family.
mi...@sushi.com
I did a lengthy reply that didn't see to show up. I have no log of
when I did the recording. The time stamp may be on my notebook.
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop1.jpg
through
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/radio/loop5.jpg
RHF
> > .
>
- The brain is just fine. The wellbrook is a combination of wideband
- transformer and low noise amp, so you would expect it to cost more
- than the magnetic balun, which is just the wideband transformer.
-
- The nice thing about the wellbrook gear is you don't feel the urge
to
- upgrade. Bigger loops are better, but there are diminishing returns.
- The other nice thing about wellbrook gear is it wprks well outside
of
- it's stated range. I've used it as low at about 24kHz. The bad thing
- about Wellbrook gear is the cost. However, like I said, it is a very
- low volume business. There are no cheap copies of their gear.
-
- Some of the UK items have remain flat in price for the US market.
- These guys took it in the shorts a bit. Wellbrook I guess isn't
- big enough to eat that kind of loss.
Spent almost as much and a lot more for the Quantum QX
Ferrite Rod Loop Antenna and the KIWA Air Core MW Loop
Antenna along with the RF Systems DX-One Professional
MkII Active Antenna; and Dressler ARA 60 Active Receiving
Antenna; and LF Engineering H-900 Gain Probe Antenna.
Gee I seem to be missing a Wellbrook of some type . . .
- The Bush Crime Family still has a year to screw up the
- dollar even more. Maybe you should get that Wellbrook
- sooner than later. It will take years to undo the damage
- caused by the Bush Crime Family.
Please shorten your Political Rhetoric in the future
by referring to the 'Bush Crime Family' as the "BCF".
And Rememeber -ABbH- AnyBody but Hillary* !
* Stay Out The Clintoons ! ~ RHF
.
Telamon
David <not...@nowhere.org> wrote:
> Low goes into high better than high goes into low. Reflected power does
> no harm in a receive antenna. Try using your 300 Ohm antenna with a 50
> Ohm transmission line. Then try using a 50 Ohm antenna with a 300 Ohm
> transmission line. Which will receive better?
Neither will be better. If you don't understand this look up VSWR and
study that topic.
Of course there is not enough power to hurt any part of a receive
antenna or transmission line but it harms your reception.
When it comes to RF all that matters is whether two components match and
if they don't how far apart they are in impedance. It does not matter
which is higher than the other; the results will be the same reflected
power. It's a simple rule that applies to many a physics problem not
just antennas and transmission lines such as light through a prism or
light passing from air to water.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
mi...@sushi.com
I know some who has the kiwa, the older lower gain quantum, and one of
the wellbrook loops (1530 I think). The Quantum works quite well. I
thought it was better than the Kiwa loop, but I only tried it on a
Drake R8B. On a cheap radio, the Kiwa front end filtering may be
useful. The Quantum had a better null than the Wellbrook, but I think
that is because the size of the wellbrook makes it harder to keep away
from nearby objects. But the signal sounded quieter on the Wellbrook,
perhaps due to the amp or larger aperture. The Kiwa has it's fans, but
I just wasn't impressed.
David
I am going by strictly anecdotal practical experience. If I am wrong,
so be it. My Palomar MLB works a lot better (ca. 20 s units) than
hooking a longwire directly to the center conductor of the cable. But
there is virtually no loss if I connect the other end of the cable to
the 500 Ohm input on the radio, rather than the 50 Ohm SO-239.
RHF
>
> >>> 50 Ù Coax to 100 Ù Antenna ~ 1 : 2
>
> >>> ~ RHF
>
> >>> - Take an extreme case of this where you have either a short
> >>> - or the coax is open with nothing connected on that end.
> >>> - In either case if you were to send RF power to the open
> >>> - or short end of the cable you would have 100% reflected
> >>> - power. The returned phase of the that power would be 90
> >>> - degrees different though.
> >>> -
> >>> - This is different situation then DC current where the open
> >>> - and short would have very different consequences.
>
> >> Low goes into high better than high goes into low. Reflected power does
> >> no harm in a receive antenna. Try using your 300 Ohm antenna with a 50
> >> Ohm transmission line. Then try using a 50 Ohm antenna with a 300 Ohm
> >> transmission line. Which will receive better?
>
> > Neither will be better. If you don't understand this look up VSWR and
> > study that topic.
>
> > Of course there is not enough power to hurt any part of a receive
> > antenna or transmission line but it harms your reception.
>
> > When it comes to RF all that matters is whether two components match and
> > if they don't how far apart they are in impedance. It does not matter
> > which is higher than the other; the results will be the same reflected
> > power. It's a simple rule that applies to many a physics problem not
> > just antennas and transmission lines such as light through a prism or
> > light passing from air to water.
- I am going by strictly anecdotal practical experience.
- If I am wrong, so be it.
- My Palomar MLB works a lot better (ca. 20 s units) than
- hooking a longwire directly to the center conductor of the cable.
MLB-1 Magnetic Longwire Balun -by- Palomar Engineers
MLB-1 - http://www.palomar-engineers.com/MLB-1/mlb-1.html
-msrp- Price ~ $50
OK - That would be having the MLB Connected with the 9-Side-Wire
to the Antenna Wire and the 1-Side-SO-239 Jack to the Coax Cable;
with the Coax Cable 'Grounded' at the Receiver via the SO-239
50-Ohm Antenna Input.
- But there is virtually no loss if I connect the other end of the
cable to
- the 500 Ohm input on the radio, rather than the 50 Ohm SO-239.
I can understand how you make the Coax Cable's Pl-259 Plug -to- the
Receiver's SO-239 Jack 'Connection'.
-But- How do you make the Coax Cable/PL-259 Plug -to- 500-Ohm
Terminals 'Connection' ?
i want to know -and- a merry christmas ~ RHF
.
Telamon
David <not...@nowhere.org> wrote:
Don't just take my word for it. Go look up VSWR and read just a few
paragraphs on the subject. You work in electronics, this is important
for you to understand.
Search for the term index of refraction for similar concepts in physics
for lightwaves, which are EM waves. Then you will get the idea behind
refraction of radio waves in the upper atmosphere. Short wave radio can
teach you a lot.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
HF propagation
in NYC,despite all that urban rf hash.
RHF
-
- Does anyone use RF Systems MLB?
- Seems quite decent to me up here
- in NYC,despite all that urban rf hash.
-
HF Propagation,
Yes - I use an RF Systems Magnetic Longwire Balun (MLB)
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/1484.html
http://www.rf-systems.nl/pdf/mlb.pdf
with a RG6 Coax Cable Feed-in-Line about 25 Feet Long
connected to a 100 Foot Long Horizontal Wire Antenna
made-up of Five 1/4 WL Element 5-Wire Flat TV Rotor
Cable Laid-Out : Feed-Point-End WSW to ENE Far-End
~39 Foot Feed-Point Apex and ~8 Feet Far-End; while
the Wire is Horizontal it does tapper-out closer to the
Ground as it approaches a Sloping Hill Side at the Far-End.
.
[ 'x' Connected Cut-to-Size Antenna Active Elements ]
x------------------------------------------------------------------o
98 Feet ~ 120m SW Band
x------------------------------------------------o 71 Feet ~ 90m SW
Band
x---------------------------------------o 59 Feet ~ 75m SW Band
x--------------------------------o 48 Feet ~ 60m SW Band
x--------------------------o 39 Feet ~ 49m SW Band
.
[ 'o' Un-Connect Cut-toSize Wire Ends Passive Elements ]
o----------------------o 32 Feet ~ 41m SW Band
o-----------------o 25 Feet ~ 31m SW Band
o--------------o 20 Feet ~ 25m SW Band
o-----------o 17 Feet ~ 22m SW Band
o----------o 15 Feet ~ 19m SW Band
.
David
>
>
> Don't just take my word for it. Go look up VSWR and read just a few
> paragraphs on the subject. You work in electronics, this is important
> for you to understand.
>
> Search for the term index of refraction for similar concepts in physics
> for lightwaves, which are EM waves. Then you will get the idea behind
> refraction of radio waves in the upper atmosphere. Short wave radio can
> teach you a lot.
>
One condition is closer to a short circuit. That's all I know.
I always match impedance for maximum power transfer. I voltage match as
well, when power is not so important, e.g. signal sampling.
In practical usage, "receive only" is closer to sampling.
I know enough about electronics to keep my sorry ass employed.
David
> Does anyone use RF Systems MLB? Seems quite decent to me up here
> in NYC,despite all that urban rf hash.
>
I use the Palomar, as it is not made by aliens.
RHF
> > Does anyone use RF Systems MLB? Seems quite decent to me up here
> > in NYC,despite all that urban rf hash.
- I use the Palomar, as it is not made by aliens.
Ah David - Do You See Aliens ?
.
Telamon
David <not...@nowhere.org> wrote:
Do a search on VSWR, it will take you as long as posting to the news
group.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
David
I'm trying really hard to get my boss to buy me a used network analyzer
right now. Preferably the one with a Smith Chart display. Standing
waves can set up a quasi-multipath appearing signal, but at HF the
effect has negligible consequences.
I deal in practical reality.
Telamon
David <not...@nowhere.org> wrote:
Most any network analyzer will have a Smith chart display.
I'm not sure how a network analyzer will help solve multi-path
problems. You can certainly test for group delay if that's what you are
getting at.
I find HF multi-path a big problem on nigh time MW and anytime SW
reception, hence I'm a big fan of sync detection to virtually eliminate
selective fading distortion.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
- I deal in practical reality.
DaviD - Many of your Posting Here would . . .
Clearly Testify to the Opposite ~ RHF
.
David
I was talking about standing waves on a transmission line causing
multi-path-esque effects like comb filtering.
Selective fading isn't exactly classical multipath e.g. picket fencing
or aircraft flutter. I need to move the R8B next to the bedroom.
That's where I do most of my listening lately. I'm using an R75 in the
SSB mode to listen to Reno or SF most nights (although George Noory can
be heard early on 770 some nights). The SSB mode makes music kind of
dull, but is great for voice readability.
We're buying another FSH313 today. I love spending money.
David
>
> - I deal in practical reality.
>
> DaviD - Many of your Posting Here would . . .
> Clearly Testify to the Opposite ~ RHF
> .
I'm sure there are. 70% of Americans think angels are real. Nothing to
brag about, IMHO.
RHF
> RHF wrote:
>
> > - I deal in practical reality.
>
> > DaviD - Many of your Posting Here would . . .
> > Clearly Testify to the Opposite ~ RHF
> > .
- I'm sure there are.
David - That They Are Indeed. ~ RHF
- 70% of Americans think angels are real.
David . . . and the 'other' 30% could be Wrong !
- Nothing to brag about, IMHO.
David - Clearly You Have Never Been Touched By An Angel !
.
Telamon
David <not...@nowhere.org> wrote:
Spectrum analyzers with tracking generators are nice to have.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
David
No. The other 30% are 100% correct until proved otherwise.
Without stupid religion there'd be no war.
RHF
> RHF wrote:
> > On Dec 28, 5:35 am, David <noth...@nowhere.org> wrote:
> >> RHF wrote:
>
> >>> - I deal in practical reality.
> >>> DaviD - Many of your Posting Here would . . .
> >>> Clearly Testify to the Opposite ~ RHF
> >>> .
>
> > - I'm sure there are.
>
> > David - That They Are Indeed. ~ RHF
>
> > - 70% of Americans think angels are real.
>
> > David . . . and the 'other' 30% could be Wrong !
>
> > - Nothing to brag about, IMHO.
>
> > David - Clearly You Have Never Been Touched By An Angel !
> > .
>
-
- Without stupid religion there'd be no war.
DaviD - Often Religion is an Excuse
GREED IS GOOD ! ~ RHF
.
John Smith
>> ...
> - Without stupid religion there'd be no war.
>
> DaviD - Often Religion is an Excuse
> GREED IS GOOD ! ~ RHF
> .
Huh?
My God, Jesus (actually son of the Father) said to "turn the other
cheek" and was against war, unless to protect your "God given rights!"
But then, it is hard to tell where you were educated at ...
JS
RHF
> RHF wrote:
>
> >> ...
>
> > - Without stupid religion there'd be no war.
>
> > DaviD - Often Religion is an Excuse
> > GREED IS GOOD ! ~ RHF
> > .
>
-
- My God, Jesus (actually son of the Father) said to "turn the other
- cheek" and was against war, unless to protect your "God given
rights!"
-
- But then, it is hard to tell where you were educated at ...
-
- JS
-
JS - I 'gots' me ed-u-cation Listening to the Radio. ~ RHF
Note to DaviD - My Plastic Jesus Never Hurt No One
and He Be Keeping Me Save Too !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIKv7xGlgnA
http://www.whitetreeaz.com/plastic_jesus/plasticj.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1uH4muLMFU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOSCxjVoci8
.
Billy Burpelson
> But then, it is hard to tell where you were educated at ...
>
>
> JS
Well, seeing as you brought it up, where were YOU educated?
You must have been absent the day your teacher said never to end a
sentence with a preposition.
Your faux pas is pegging the ol' Irony Meter...
;-)
David
Greed is one of the 7 reasons civilizations don't last.
David
Religion has perverted any shred of decency in the Jesus thing. Today's
Jesus has rock-hard abs, a giant penis, and a nuclear sword.
David Eduardo
"John Smith" <assembl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fl7bap$sg9$1...@aioe.org...
It is simple to tell, by the "at" at the end of your sentence, that you were
not educated at all. Perhaps that is why you are afraid of immigrants...
many of whom are likely better skilled and better educated than you.
dxAce
As long as they are legal, and not faux!
RHF
> "John Smith" <assemblywiz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fl7bap$sg9$1...@aioe.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > RHF wrote:
>
> > >> ...
> >> - Without stupid religion there'd be no war.
>
> >> DaviD - Often Religion is an Excuse
> >> GREED IS GOOD ! ~ RHF
> >> .
>
> > Huh?
>
> > My God, Jesus (actually son of the Father) said to "turn the other cheek"
> > and was against war, unless to protect your "God given rights!"
- - But then, it is hard to tell where you were educated at ...
-
- It is simple to tell, by the "at" at the end of your sentence,
- that you were not educated at all.
-
- Perhaps that is why you are afraid of immigrants... many of
- whom are likely better skilled and better educated than you.
-
d'Eduardo - DOH ! - That's A Big One ! ~ RHF
Clearly you choose to overlook the "..." after the 'at' in the line
"But then, it is hard to tell where you were educated at ..."
d'Eduardo - Here is a little Reality Check
-wrt- The Mexican Education System :
Comparison of Mexican and Canada/US Education
http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/educomp.html
Mexican Education System :
* Many Primary- and Secondary School-Age students, especially
in Rural Areas, Fail to Complete their Education Programs.
http://countrystudies.us/mexico/62.htm
-source- U.S. Library of Congress
* The Length of Compulsory Education was raised from Six
{Elementary School} to Nine {Junior Hi} Years in 1992,
-BUT- in practice this new Law is largely Ignored.
http://archive.idrc.ca/Nayudamma/CEEmx_84e.html
* For those Students who Successful Completion of Primary
{Elementary} School, Students can enter a Three-Year (Junior-Hi}
Secondary-School Program, or Vocational-Education Program
{Trade School}.
http://www.nesomexico.com/dutch-organizations/mexican-education-system
Failing Grades for Mexico's Education System
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2007/12/failing-grades.html
America's (USA) "Manual Laborers of the Future."
Fact Is - Mexico has not place {Jobs & Livelihood} for Them :
So Mexico Exports Them to the USA
Question - Where Is It At ? -modern 'techno' babel- Where It's @ ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uQ9W4KexnA
10 Flagrant Grammar Mistakes That Make You Look Stupid - DOH !
http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?
forumID=6&threadID=195143&messageID=2063436
http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/whereat.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_It's_At
Put It To Music - I Know - Where It's At !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt8n77Fq1E8
-PS- Send the Illegal Alien Foreign Invaders Home - Now !
dang - d'eduardo are suffering from a mexican miss-educated ? ~ RHF
.
RHF
> John Smith wrote:
> > RHF wrote:
>
> > >> ...
> >> - Without stupid religion there'd be no war.
>
> >> DaviD - Often Religion is an Excuse
> >> GREED IS GOOD ! ~ RHF
> >> .
>
> > Huh?
>
> > My God, Jesus (actually son of the Father) said to "turn the other
> > cheek" and was against war, unless to protect your "God given rights!"
>
> > But then, it is hard to tell where you were educated at ...
>
> > JS
- Religion has perverted any shred of decency in the Jesus thing.
DaviD - Jesus Ain't No "Thing"
For Christians - Jesus Is "The Christ" Immanuel ! - Amen ~ RHF
* Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus
* The Christ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Christ
* Immuanuel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel
- Today's Jesus has rock-hard abs, a giant penis, and a nuclear sword.
DaviD - Your Today -is not- My Today [.] - good day ~ RHF
.
David
Rambo with stigmata.