Improving AM Broadcast Band reception
Mike Lynn
I live in the fringe area and was curious as to whether there is a
simple improvement for the AM broadcast band. I use a simple Panasonic
portable and just want to listen to talk-radio....
Thanks.
-mike
donutbandit
The simplest thing I can think of is this: put up a wire, and bring the end
of the wire to the radio. The wire will couple with the radio's built in
ferrire bar antenna and sensitivity will improve. Move the wire around in
relation to the radio until you find the best coupling.
The wire is not at all critical, and you can experiment with it's length to
determine how long you can make it without overloading the radio and
causing undesirable effects. I'd start with 50 feet.
This is the easiest way without buying anything or constructing anything,
and anybody can do it.
King Pineapple
news:404219...@rglobal.net...
Craig, WPE1HNS
Meredith, NH USA
Drake R8B/Alpha Delta DX Sloper
Sony SW-77
Sony ICF-2010
2 x Phillips/Magnavox D2935
Uniden CR-2021
Knight Kit Star Roamer (permanently tuned to Turkey on 9460)
GE Superadio II/Select-A-Tenna
Delphi Ski-Fi XM/3" Antennae
Tuning since 1963
Ron Hardin
next to the radio, and it matches the impedance so that the radio
hears down the the propagating noise floor, which is as sensitive as
you need to be.
We're talking daytime. At night, every radio is sensitive enough
because the problem is too many signals, not too few.
In the day you'll get say 300 miles range with a MW loop. I can hear
17 versions of Limbaugh at noon in Central Ohio at three time delays.
The two cheapest MW loops are simple passive loops, the Terk MW loop ~$40
and Select-a-tenna ~$60. Radio Shack used to have one ~$30.
Passive loops are good enough. Active ones are not better, just more
costly.
You can build your own but it's actually not worth it.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
CAndersen (Kimba)
>The two cheapest MW loops are simple passive loops, the Terk MW loop ~$40
>and Select-a-tenna ~$60. Radio Shack used to have one ~$30.
Did Radio Shack discontinue that loop antenna? It was very good, but its
selectivity was poor at the upper end of the band. OTOH, the
Select-A-Tenna is very selective; great if you have an interference
problem. I wouldn't want to be without one. (Both of them must be manually
tuned, hence the reference to selectivity.)
This active antenna is excellent: http://www.ccrane.com/am-antenna.asp .
It also requires manual tuning. So, none of these are as simple as the
plain wire idea, but they're not hard to use, either.
--
Reply address munged. You can figure it out.
RHF
= = = news:<404219...@rglobal.net>...
ML,
READ - AM/MW DXing:
Three Loop Antennas and Three 'portable' Super Radios
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/775
Crane {Justice} AM Antenna is a "Great AM/MW Signal Magnet"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/615
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/631
.
.
REMEMBER: "The AM/MW/Shortwave Antenna is 55.5% of the...
Radio/Receiver and Antenna/Ground Reception Equation"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/288
A Shortwave Antenna is "Equally" Important for Good Reception [.]
.
.
iane ~ RHF
.
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/502
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night...
You Can Hear Forever and beyond, The Beyond !
.
.
Jim
I beg to differ about loops that you build are not worth it.
I designed and built many MW loops that are as good or better in some ways
that the Kiwa loop. The problems with homemade loops is poor construction.
This link has pictures of loops that I built.
http://www.frontiernet.net/~jadale/My%20Loop%20Antennas.htm
Jim
Jay Heyl
Not to discount what others have said about loop antennas, but the
simplest solution might be to buy a better radio. If your problem is
signal capture, which is what it sounds like from your description of
being in the fringe area, a radio with a larger internal ferrite antenna
might solve your problem. I would suggest the GE Superadio 3 or the
Grundig S-350 (also available at lower cost on ebay as the Tecsun BCL-
2000). Both have considerably longer than normal internal antennas and
do an excellent job of capturing weak signals. There is also the CCRadio
Plus from CCrane, but it's more expensive than the other two and it's
questionable whether it's worth the extra money. (I have all three and,
given what you've said, I'd probably go for the Grundig/Tecsun.)
The loop antennas mentioned by other posters will do a miraculous job of
pulling in weak signals, but, in all honesty, they're a hassle to use
for casual listening. You have to place them near the radio, rotate the
loop to get the best signal, and tune the loop in addition to tuning the
radio. If you're a dedicated listener, have the space, and intend to
listen to the same station for an extended period, then a loop might be
just the ticket. Dealing with a loop, though, is more than most people
would want to go through just to listen to talk radio.
-- Jay
Corbin Ray
sometimes I get addicted to a particular radio show. This summer, my day
wasn't complete unless I listened to Glenn Beck. Sometimes he would make me
laugh so hard I couldn't stand myself.
Then I had to start working from my house, and I knew I couldn't pick up his
show any more. Then it hit me that some radio stations offer Real Audio
streams. That worked perfectly! I could get his show loud and clear, even
though the nearest affiliate was a 5kw AM station over 150 miles away. Sure
it was cheating because I believe in pure dxing without any external wires
or anything, but I justified it by reasoning that I was just trying to hear
a particular program and not a particular station.
So Jay, maybe you can cheat and do it like I did!
donutbandit
news:Ejq0c.26944$hm4....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
> http://www.selectatenna.com/
Obviously, the receiver has no antenna input jack. Thus throw all the loop
antenna suggestions out the window, unless you want to try and teach him
how to make a ferrite bar coupling loop.
People should take time to read thoroughly before they post solutions that
won't work.
The long wire inductively coupled is the best solution for his problem, not
a loop or a new radio.
Brenda Ann
"donutbandit" <no...@none.com> wrote in message
news:c1urnj$7lr$4...@news.snowcrest.net...
The Select-a-Tenna (at least the model I have) works wonderfully on radios
with no external antenna connections. Indeed, there is no way to connect it
to the radio directly, you just set it by the radio and tune it.
Doug Smith W9WI
>>http://www.selectatenna.com/
>
> Obviously, the receiver has no antenna input jack. Thus throw all the loop
> antenna suggestions out the window, unless you want to try and teach him
> how to make a ferrite bar coupling loop.
>
> People should take time to read thoroughly before they post solutions that
> won't work.
>
> The long wire inductively coupled is the best solution for his problem, not
> a loop or a new radio.
The Select-A-Tenna couples inductively to the radio. (there's a deluxe
model that does offer a direct connection to an antenna input jack)
I've seen it in use, and it *does* work as advertised. It's no
substitute for a Beverage, but it's a worthwhile improvement.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com
CAndersen (Kimba)
>Obviously, the receiver has no antenna input jack. Thus throw all the loop
>antenna suggestions out the window
All Select-A-Tennas, the Radio Shack loop, and the Crane antenna all work
with any AM radio that has no antenna input terminals.
All three types, with the exception of the most basic Select-A-Tenna, also
can be connected to antenna input termnials.
RHF
If it is one specific AM/MW Radio Station that your are interested
in then consider a Fixed Turned and Fixed Postioned Loop Antenna.
* Use your Closet Door (Back-of-Door) as "Super Loop" Antenna
[For Distance Sports/Talk Radio in the 150 Mile Daytime Range.]
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/loop/loop5.html
- Six to Seven Turn Tri-Angle Shaped Loop Antenna
- Two Foot Base with two equal Legs of Six Foot
- Fixed Capacitor(s) for single station tuning.
* How to Get Better AM Radio Reception
http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3332/amradio.html
* AM ANTENNAS
http://www.abc.net.au/reception/radio/am_antenna.htm
* AM/MW Antenna Booster
http://www.abc.net.au/reception/radio/am_antenna.htm#am_booster
* AM/MW Loop Antenna Coupler
http://www.webex.net/~skywaves/ANTENNA/antsys.htm#loop
* AMANDX - presented by Shawn Axelrod
Build a Three or Four Foot Box Loop for the AM/MW Broadcast Band
http://www.angelfire.com/mb/amandx/loop.html
http://www.carcanada.net/dx/donloop.html
http://www.mindspring.com/~loop_antenna/
* The Australian One Metre (1m) Loop Antenna - by Werner Funkenhauser
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/loop/1mloop.html
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/loop/rnloop1.gif
iane ~ RHF
.
.
= = = "Corbin Ray" <radio...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
= = = news:<1045cup...@corp.supernews.com>...
.
Frank Dresser
> news:Ejq0c.26944$hm4....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
> > http://www.selectatenna.com/
>
> Obviously, the receiver has no antenna input jack. Thus throw all the
loop
> antenna suggestions out the window, unless you want to try and teach
him
> how to make a ferrite bar coupling loop.
>
A loop antenna will couple very well to a radio's internal antenna.
Another coupling loop is an unnecessary complication.
> People should take time to read thoroughly before they post solutions
that
> won't work.
>
People should try putting the radio and loop antenna on a lazy susan for
easy rotation. It works great -- it really does!
> The long wire inductively coupled is the best solution for his
problem, not
> a loop or a new radio.
The loop antenna inductively coupled to a radio's internal antenna is
the best solution for someone who wants a selective compact antenna with
reasonable gain.
Frank Dresser
Tony Meloche
Yep - I have one too, and it's a completely passive device (though
they do make a powered version of it, but I've read it's a waste of
money). Select-a-tenna is placed in-line with a loop antenna, and at a
90 degree angle to a ferrite bar antenna. It helps a lot at night, but
it helps *dramatically* during daylight hours. I really like mine.
Tony
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RHF
BA,
Check-Out the "Select-A-Tenna" (SAT) Model 541-M
SAT=> http://www.selectatenna.com/
"This is the second generation of Select-A-Tenna. It has the
same intrinsic +30dB signal strength improvement and features
as the basic 541 model. In addition, a jack on the front panel
allows the unit to be connected to either an outside long wire
and ground, or as an alternative, directly connected to a
radio's antenna and ground terminals when the radio has no
internal ferrite rod antenna."
Brenda Ann
"RHF" <rhf-say...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ee137ed4.04030...@posting.google.com...
>
> Check-Out the "Select-A-Tenna" (SAT) Model 541-M
>
> SAT=> http://www.selectatenna.com/
>
> "This is the second generation of Select-A-Tenna. It has the
> same intrinsic +30dB signal strength improvement and features
> as the basic 541 model. In addition, a jack on the front panel
> allows the unit to be connected to either an outside long wire
> and ground, or as an alternative, directly connected to a
> radio's antenna and ground terminals when the radio has no
> internal ferrite rod antenna."
Sweeeeeeet.... ya know, I could add that feature to my old 541, if I could
once figure out how to open it up to add the few turns of wire to the ground
end of the loop... but it appears the beastie is glued together.... (I could
sure use a longwire connection to it, too.. AM reception inside our building
runs from terrible to hideous to non-existant..)
Mark Keith
I agree....My homemade loops are better for my uses than what you can
buy. I can design any feature I want, and generally they are bigger
and deliver more voltage than most storebought. I built two more loops
yesterday just farting around. "Both for longwave". Maintaining
balance is the secret to success. Also, I did an experiment on mine a
couple of days ago. I've been using a simple coupling loop on mine
lately, but do have a shielded coax coupling loop also. "IE: the coax
shield is cut in the middle at the top". One had mentioned an
advantage to using a shielded loop vs a non shielded. Well, I tried
both feeding my 12 turn 16 inch round loop. No difference whatsoever
in noise, or null depth. I had never noticed much difference with
single loops of each type either if you were careful to detail.
So far, I have not been able to see much of an advantage to a shielded
loop vs unshielded as long as you are careful with balance. They seem
to work about the same here.
I'll never buy any antenna. For the prices they charge for a loop, I
could build a house full of them, and do. I noticed the guy that makes
the little wooden ones, and sells on e-bay got like about $85 for the
one he listed recently. Good grief...Most of the money is for the
fancy woodwork I assume..But electrically, his loops are inferior to
my mine. Mine was free, except for the price of the wire. I know of
no storebought loop that provides the exact performance of my usual
"general use" 16 inch loop. IE: provides coverage from 500-2000 hz to
include 160m. The freq coverage of the one on e-bay was less as an
example.
But I do agree on one thing. Properly built, a loop is a loop is a
loop. If you have one that is working well on a certain freq, and has
good nulls and enough voltage, there is little to gain by trying
another one. My next project??? I wanna design a *small* terminated
loop if it's possible. Kind of a rotatable *baby* K9AY loop. I'm not
sure if it will work or not though. I'm wondering if it's feasable to
terminate a normal multi-turn loop, and make it unidirectional by
inserting a terminating resister on one side. I really need a ground
point to tie the terminating resister to...Maybe not, as so far I have
trouble making it work. If not, I'll try building a normal smaller
K9AY outside I guess...
Oh yea...A last comment...Long wires on MW are just great if you like
4 stations at one time...:/ A loop is much better if you want
directivity and the ability to null out unwanted stations or noise.
MK
Mark Keith
> - Fixed Capacitor(s) for single station tuning.
Speaking of fixed caps...Some of my 160m buddies and buddetts are
building loops for receive purposes. Some have wondered about
caps....I've never tried it, but for fixed single freq use, I don't
see why a length of coax couldn't be used. IE: lets say you had a loop
that needed about 75 pf to tune. RG-8 is appx 30-31?? or so pf a foot.
About a 3 ft piece *should* work. Or seems to me anyway...I prefer
variables, but this coax cap method might could work for someone that
needs a quicky cap, and has none at hand. MK
Brenda Ann
"Mark Keith" <nm...@wt.net> wrote in message
news:25eb70d7.0403...@posting.google.com...
The oscillator section of a standard AMBCB variable would be right in that
range.. or, for cheap, quick and (not so) dirty, there are lots of 100pF
mica trimmers available..
Telamon
nm...@wt.net (Mark Keith) wrote:
The shield is electrostatic and would only help against local noise
(example - in the room computer) being the pickup loop.
If you had an un-tuned broadband amplified single turn shielded loop
compared to one that was not shielded then you would expect to see a
difference.
Loop antenna is a broad term.
Here are some features:
1. Small or large compared to the received wavelength.
2. Shielded or not.
3. Single or multi turn and shape type example - pancake or solinoid.
4. Tuned or un-tuned.
5. Several ways to couple them to the receiver.
Now you can mix and match the 5 above into many possibilities all with
different tradeoffs.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Dxluver
>sure use a longwire connection to it, too.. AM reception inside our building
>runs from terrible to hideous to non-existant..)
Out of curiousity Brenda Ann, what radio are you using for the BCB anf for SW?
My loop doesn't really do that good a job on that GE P-780, works well on all
the others, but not that one.
But (from experience) if you could hook you a longwire, you'd be pleased I'm
sure.
CW
> news:Ejq0c.26944$hm4....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
> > http://www.selectatenna.com/
>
Yes, you really should.
Brenda Ann
"Dxluver" <dxl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040302024525...@mb-m16.aol.com...
I sometimes use the P-780, but mostly I'm using a Pioneer tuner that I feed
into our cable system for an FM signal on the tuner... but inside this
place, even the 780 doesn't do well, because of all the QRM.. doesn't matter
how good your receiver is, if it's not got a clean signal to start with, it
can't reproduce one.
Dxluver
>buy. I can design any feature I want, and generally they are bigger
>and deliver more voltage than most storebought.
MK,
would you mind emailing me? I have a question.
Dxluver
>place, even the 780 doesn't do well, because of all the QRM..
Unbelievable, though I believe you. ;-) I've had that 780 in places and
offices and one home that was absolutely he** for RF but the ole' GE P-780
handled it as it always has.
*I think* the reason that rat sgack loop doesn't work with the GE P-780 is that
it is so well made that it doesn't need a loop, all my other receivers get
some kind of lift from my loop except that particular piece.
That was what I read and was told by an old timer when he saw the 780, he said
"wow, that battleship brings back memories, where in the world did you get
one of them." lol We must have say out there for three hours listening to that
radio and talking, he's in his 90's and just a super guy and he really thinks
highly of that radio.
BTW, thanks for being my 'dealer.' ;-) No....no...guys....no drugs involved.
Mark Keith
> The shield is electrostatic and would only help against local noise
> (example - in the room computer) being the pickup loop.
Yes, And I could tell no real difference from it to a unshielded loop.
This assumes the unshielded loop is fairly well balanced though.
>
> If you had an un-tuned broadband amplified single turn shielded loop
> compared to one that was not shielded then you would expect to see a
> difference.
I would think so. But so far I don't really see a drastic difference.
>
> Loop antenna is a broad term.
> Here are some features:
> 1. Small or large compared to the received wavelength.
A small loop is directional inline with the windings. A large loop,
broadside to the windings.
> 2. Shielded or not.
Again, this is debatable as to the effectiveness...I consider it an
option.
> 3. Single or multi turn and shape type example - pancake or solinoid.
A pancake coil is directional broadside to the loop. A solenoid,
inline with the loop. Or so I've read...So far, almost all of my small
loops are solenoid type. I have thought about planting a big pancake
coil on a door though...
> 4. Tuned or un-tuned.
All small passive loops should be tuned. At the least, using the self
resonant freq. With the cap, lower in freq...
> 5. Several ways to couple them to the receiver.
I use normal coupling loops, both shielded, and unshielded as a test.
I see no difference in results..I don't use preamps. Don't need em...
>
> Now you can mix and match the 5 above into many possibilities all with
> different tradeoffs.
Thats what I'm doing here, but with not always the results I want...
IE: I made a 45 turn LW loop that I hang up against my usual 16 turn
MW loop. I used the same cap for each loop, by using a switch. It
worked great on both "bands". Didn't mess up the MW loop. So then, I
decided to wind a LW loop on the same frame hoping for the same
results. The LW worked fine, but the MW was detuned. So I just now
ripped all the LW turns back off and will go back to the previous
method with a bit more separation between the windings. I'm rigging
mine up to cover from about 150hz to 2000 hz in two steps. "coils".
This lets me use the same cap for both, and I don't have to tack on
extra fixed caps for LW. But I still want to build some type of
unidirectional rotatable small loop. In messing with the LW loops, I
have discovered something about my radio I hadn't noticed.
"IC-706mk2g". Although it tunes down to 30 cycles, the radio goes
pretty dead below about 150 cycles. Not the greatest LW radio in the
world for real low freq's...:( It's ok from about 175 hz, up.. MK
Mark Keith
Actually, I prefer to keep it on the NG, but you can e-mail me if you
want.
The main reason I like to keep it on the group is if I lay a clam,
someone will usually correct me... MK
Dxluver
>someone will usually correct me.
huh, OK.
Mark Keith
> >The main reason I like to keep it on the group is if I lay a clam,
> >someone will usually correct me.
>
> huh, OK.
Yea...:( As an example, the other day I said a pancake loop's nulls
were at right angles compared to a solenoid loop. The reason I said
this, was I saw it mentioned on a web page somewhere. But after
thinking about it more, I'm not so sure that is correct. Seems to me,
they should act the same as a solenoid loop as far as null direction,
being they are both "small loops". But I'm not sure...All my current
loops are solenoid. Any comments from any pancake loop owners? Are the
nulls broadside to the loop, as in a solenoid loop? Or opposite?
I do know a ferrite bar antenna is opposite from a solenoid loop. BTW,
I just built a new bigger loop yesterday. It's a diamond loop appx 43
inches per side.
It's 5 ft across at the spreaders. Built it from PVC and is a simple
cross frame. I have it in the room with me, and it's rotatable on a
stand like my 16 inch loop. It's working real good so far. It does
give a lot more voltage than the small loop. About 2 s units worth on
average. Will be good for weak signals in quiet cdx. Good for LW too,
being it's pretty big. Started out with 7 turns, but ended up with 5.
I couldn't tune 160m at first. I'm using two variable caps, one appx
850 pf?, and one that is maybe 50 pf or less full mesh, and two sets
of fixed capacitance to tune from 250 cycles to about 2.5 mhz. On the
high end, I'm using very small capacitance values. In fact, I had to
take a 3 150 pf?? "guessing" piece variable, and only use one section
for those upper freqs. The balance came out as good as my other one,
and about equal or better nulls. Using a one turn coupling loop inside
the tank coil. The nulls seem even and the same either side. Thats
what you really want to see. If they slew off from actual direction,
or are unequal , you know you have a balance problem.
MK
Zach Liang
MY asutralian loop ( ie a 1 x 1 sqm x 7 woulnds ) ofered possibly more
than 30 db gain [i have not any ability to measure the signal level !)
] over the standard radio loop no matter which is ( degen 1102 , Khibo
C300 , Bolong and other poket radios I use)
I could listen in mid day ( 3-5 LT) in Thessaloniki N Greece even a
french station on ca. 600 kHz with 500 kW
On 1 Mar 2004 13:35:31 -0800, rhf-say...@pacbell.net (RHF) wrote:
>"B
Zach Liang
MY asutralian loop ( ie a 1 x 1 sqm x 7 woulnds ) ofered possibly more
than 30 db gain [i have not any ability to measure the signal level !)
] over the standard radio loop no matter which is ( degen 1102 , Khibo
C300 , Bolong and other poket radios I use)
I could listen in mid day ( 3-5 LT) in Thessaloniki N Greece even a
french station on ca. 600 kHz with 500 kW
On 1 Mar 2004 13:35:31 -0800, rhf-say...@pacbell.net (RHF) wrote:
>"B
RHF
I have made several Loop Antennas in the One Meter Square Size range.
IIRC: Two Loops one smaller and the other larger; that are
built with the same care and materials would have the same
'relative' Gain with respect to their Peak Signal and ability
to Null a Signal. (Both Loop Antennas would have about the
same "Q" Number.)
AUSTRALIAN ONE METER SQUARE Loop Antenna = 10,000 cm Sq.
A larger Loop Antenna has a greater Signal Capture Area and
usually this results in a higher Signal Outout.
* The Australian 1 Metre Loop from Hard-Core-DX.Com
- by Werner Funkenhauser
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/loop/1mloop.html
* Bigger Image of the "Australian 1 Metre Loop"
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/loop/rnloop1.gif
* The One Meter (3-4Ft) Loop Antennas all perform really good,
but they are big and need a lot of space to position them and
operate them.
SELECT-A-TENNA [Twelve Inch Round] Loop Antenna = 730 cm Sq.
A smaller Loop Antenna has a small Signal Capture Area and
usually this results in a small Signal Outout.
* Check-Out the "Select-A-Tenna" (SAT) Model 541-M
SAT=> http://www.selectatenna.com/
* The smaller Loop Antennas like the Select-A-Tenna perform
very well, plus they are easier to use and simply more portable.
THE NUMBERS: Based upon the above two numbers for the
Australian One Meter Square Loop Antenna -=V=- the
Select-A-Tenna [Twelve Inch Round] Loop Antenna the relative
areas of the Loops are ruffly (10,000/730) 14 to 1. What this
means that the Australian One Meter Square Loop Antenna will
have a Higher Signal Level (Output) and because of it's
greater Signal Capture Area this would result in less apparent
fading of the signal when using it vice the Select-A-Tenna.
RANGE: Estimated usable DXing Ranges of these two Loop Antennas.
* Australian One Meter Square Loop Antenna = 2775 Km (1750 Miles)
* Select-A-Tenna [Twelve Inch Round] Loop Antenna = 750Km (475 Miles)
IMPROVING THE "Q" OF THE LOOPS:
* One thing that can 'improve' the "Q" of a Loop Antenna is to
Replace the wire used in the Loop with LITZ Wire.
* Another thing is to reduce the "Spacing" between the Loop Turns.
The Australian One Meter Square Loop Antenna plans call fo 12mm
(1/2") Spacing you mite try reducing this to 9mm (3/8").
LOOP ANTENNA HELP:
* "Loop Antenna Information Forum" eGroup on YAHOO !
LOOPS=> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/
* "Ferrite Rod Antenna Experimenters" eGroup on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FerriteRodAntenna/
* "Shortwave SWL Antenna" eGroup on YAHOO !
SWL=> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
.
iane ~ RHF
.
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/502
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night...
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond - The Beyond !
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= = = Zach Liang <zli...@clink.gr> wrote in message
= = = news:<qn4m4011pi5ee3m0i...@4ax.com>...