7600GR Vs SAT 800

[Ducky]

I have a Sony 7600GR. Will I get much better performance from a new
Grundig SAT 800? I think I can get a reconditioned Grundig for around
$400. I am just wondering if it's worth nearly $300 more than the Sony.
Any help appreciated.

[sdan...@nyc.rr.com]

A Satellit 800 will be a step up from a 7600GR, but will it be worth
$300? I sure don't think so. Why not spend that money on a used
tabletop? You'll get way more bang for the buck that way. Several Lowe
HF-150s have gone for around that on Ebay recently.

Mind you, it's a little weird to call the 150 a tabletop in contrast to
the 800 when the 800 is about 15 times the size of the 150. :)

Best,

Steve

[theca...@post.com]

the satellit 800 is a desktop

[theca...@post.com]

A friend of mine is upstate new york sold his 150 to get an 800, says
it is a better radio

[sdan...@nyc.rr.com]

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, of course. I personally find
your friend's decision to be absolutely mindboggling, but hey...it's
not the first time my mind has been boggled and it sure won't be the
last!

Steve

[Joe Analssandrini]

Hello Ducky!

Both radios are superb within their categories. When considering
absolute reception, the Satellit 800 is a superior radio to the
ICF-SW7600GR.

HOWEVER --- have you tried using a really good antenna with your '7600?
Please remember (and note well) that the ANTENNA is far more important
to good reception than is the radio.

A good DXer can achieve far more with a '7600 and a good antenna than
someone else with a Satellit 800 and a mediocre antenna.

Though it would be overkill to buy a Wellbrook ALA 330S antenna for a
Sony portable, just for the "heck" of it I attached my Wellbrook to the
Sony. You should have heard the signals "pouring" in! (Of course the
Satellit 800 is better yet.)

That said, if you are truly interested in good short wave reception and
are willing to erect a proper antenna, then "yes" the Satellit 800 is
EASILY worth the $300.

Best,

Joe

[sdan...@nyc.rr.com]

Ducky, do you know anyone who already owns an 800? Is there anyway you
could spend some time listening to an 800 before making a decision
about what to buy? That would be the ideal scenario.

If you scout around on the web you'll find many reviews of the 800, but
it's hard to tell just from reading a review whether the improvement
you'll get from an 800 is 'worth' $300. After all, what the step up to
the 800 is worth will depend not just on the 800 and the 7600GR but on
how big an investment $300 is for you. To me, $300 is a pretty big
chunk of change. If I part with it, it will only be after a good bit of
research and probably a fair amount of reluctance. On the other hand,
some people are willing to spend $300 on a lark.

One thing Joe mentioned that's very relevant here is that the 800 will
accept a much larger antenna than the 7600GR. So, if what you really
want is a receiver that can tolerate a large, outside antenna, then the
800 might suit your needs. On shortwave, you should never expect the
800 to deliver the performance of a Palstar R30 or a Lowe HF-150. On
the other hand, the 800 will offer you FM and airband coverage, which
may well interest you. Clearly, a lot is going to hinge on what you
want from a receiver.

Good luck with the decision and please let us know how you make out!

Steve

[Ducky]

I don't have access to an SAT 800 to try. I live in an apartment. I
clip a reel antenna to my Sony 7600GR and it does ok. I just don't know
if the 'upgrade' will be money well spent as I can't erect an outdoor
antenna. I would be using the SAT 800 on the whip antenna or a clip on
wire. Thanks!

[David]

The 800 is a much nicer program receiver than the 150.

[sdan...@nyc.rr.com]

How so?

[theca...@post.com]

according to my friend:

800 has 3 useful selectivity choices, the 150 has limited choices
800 has a selectable sideband sync that can be used with a 6KHz
filter, the 150 uses only the 2.5 filter
the 800 has a bass and treble, 150 none
800 has fast and slow AGC, the 150 none
the 800 has a keypad with up and down buttons, the 150 has none
the 800 sounds better
the 800 has more memories
the 800 has better performance
the 800 can be bought for less than $300, he got his for $280 including
shipping, the 150 cost over $400

he sold his 150

[David]

Big front-facing speaker. Tone controls. Numeric Keypad included.
More dedicated buttons vs carousel arrangement.

The 150 is nice if you have the Key Pad option, an external speaker
and computer control (which requires another option).

On 4 Mar 2005 05:59:23 -0800, sdan...@nyc.rr.com wrote:

>How so?
>

[theca...@post.com]

my friend will be at the SWL winterfest, if you want I can put you in
contact with him.

[sdan...@nyc.rr.com]

Actually, your friend's remarks don't surprise me too much, now that I
think about it. I actually saw someone on usenet once claim that the
800 was better than the R8B. (I wonder if it was friend?). In any case,
no one disputes that there are more knobs to twist and buttons to push
on the 800. And no one denies that the 800 has some significant
advantages over the 150, like FM and airband. However, as far as
shortwave performance is concerned, the 800 is not even competitive
with the 150. I've owned two 800s, so I'm not just making this up; and
I don't think the 800 is a bad receiver by any means. On the contrary,
I think it's a good, if overpriced, receiver. But it's absurd to
compare it to a Lowe, a Palstar or something of that ilk. I'm surprised
that this is even an issue, but don't take my word for it....if you
ever have a chance, compare them for yourself. One thing I will say is
that the 800 sounds better than the 150 when both are using their stock
speakers. However, the tables quickly turn if external speakers are
involved. In that instance, the 150's audio is vastly superior to the
800s.

Sometimes I think that people have a weird since of loyalty to the 800
because it's the last of the royal Grundig line. Not that there's
anything wrong with that, but it's not so great when someone else's
money is at stake.

Steve

[sdan...@nyc.rr.com]

I have a 150, but neither use nor feel the need for the keypad. I do
recommend an external speaker for the 150, and without an external
speaker the 800 sounds better. But the 150 sounds better with external
speakers, and it will outperform the 800 and all its buttons and knobs
on shortwave every time. I guess it ultimately boils down to what you
want.

Steve

[theca...@post.com]

I don't think you know what you are talking about. the 150 is not
better than the 800. never was never will be. and it is not better
because of FM or AIR or buttons.

only an idiot would say the 800 is better than the R8B

by the way, my friend also has an RX-340 and is a very knowledgeable
radio person.

[theca...@post.com]

everyone can have an opinion, you just don't know what you are talking
about.

[Joe Analssandrini]

Hello Ducky!

Try an AOR WL500 Window Loop Antenna (about $200.00 from Universal,
Grove, or AES) with your '7600. In addition to the antenna, you will
need to buy from Radio Shack a BNC-RCA adapter and then an RCA-3.5mm
adapter; these will allow you to attach the antenna to the '7600.

You should hear a noticeable difference in reception quality. If you
do, and I'm sure you will, then, yes, the Satellit 800 will be "better"
than the '7600 (with that antenna). If you don't hear much difference,
then forget it. (Buy the antenna on a returnable basis.) The Satellit
800 with its whip is pretty good, but not of DX calibre. It really
needs a good external (indoor or outdoor) antenna, and without that, it
won't outperform your '7600 sufficiently to justify the purchase, in my
opionion.

In my experience, clipping a relatively short wire to the Satellit's
whip does little good. The AOR WL500 works very well with the Satellit
in my experience, affording a 2 or 3 S-unit increase in signal strength
over the whip yet with less noise.

Best,

Joe

P.S. No one ever said ANY hobby was "cheap!"

[sdan...@nyc.rr.com]

I'm sure he is and if he's happy with his 800, I say more power to him.
I hope he continues to enjoy it for many years to come, in spite of its
crappy build quality.

Steve

[sdan...@nyc.rr.com]

Apparently I knew enough to hit a nerve.

Steve

[dxAce]

sdan...@nyc.rr.com wrote:

> Apparently I knew enough to hit a nerve.

Bravo!

I bow to a master.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

[Ducky]

Joe Analssandrini wrote:
> Hello Ducky!
>
> Both radios are superb within their categories. When considering
> absolute reception, the Satellit 800 is a superior radio to the
> ICF-SW7600GR.
>
> HOWEVER --- have you tried using a really good antenna with your
'7600?
> Please remember (and note well) that the ANTENNA is far more
important
> to good reception than is the radio.
>
> A good DXer can achieve far more with a '7600 and a good antenna than
> someone else with a Satellit 800 and a mediocre antenna.
>
> Though it would be overkill to buy a Wellbrook ALA 330S antenna for a
> Sony portable, just for the "heck" of it I attached my Wellbrook to
the
> Sony. You should have heard the signals "pouring" in! (Of course the
> Satellit 800 is better yet.)
>
> That said, if you are truly interested in good short wave reception
and
> are willing to erect a proper antenna, then "yes" the Satellit 800 is
> EASILY worth the $300.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe

Are you saying that the SAT 800 is more sensitive than the 7600GR?

[Joe Analssandrini]

Dear Ducky,

It is FAR more sensitive. But remember - sensitivity per se is not the
most important attribute of a good short wave radio, at least nowadays,
when virtually all short wave radios have sufficient sensitivity. A
sensitive receiver will pick up local electrical noise even better than
an insensitive one! A radio/antenna combination which will minimize
that problem is better than one that won't.

Take my advice about buying the AOR WL500 Window Loop Antenna (on a
returnable basis) first and try it with your Sony ICF-SW7600GR. If you
see an improvement in reception quality, then the Grundig Satellit 800
will certainly outperform (on an absolute basis) the Sony, due to its
far superior image rejection, IF filtering, AGC action, etc.

In order to improve your reception quality, first you must increase the
signal-to-noise ratio. Only an antenna can do that. If you find one
that will work well in your location (and I believe the WL500 is one
that will), then you can upgrade your shack to a better receiver with
the knowledge that you are getting your money's worth.

If, after following my advice, you ultimately do buy a Satellit 800,
well then you can aspire to someday owning a Wellbrook ALA 330S Active
Loop Antenna, the finest antenna being made today. But that will be far
into the future.

You should find that the Grundig Satellit 800/AOR WL500 combination
will afford you excellent reception and many hours of pleasant
listening.

Best,

Joe

[Radio E V E R H A R T]

On 4 Mar 2005 09:40:00 -0800, sdan...@nyc.rr.com wrote:

Hey, it's a toss up with the 800. If you get a good one, oh well,
then you rock-and-roll. But get a bad one and live the nightmare that
is the Sat650 wannabe.

BE

[D. Martin]

This is a simple matter of priorities. If shortwave radio is of
sufficiant importance, you will upgrade to the better reciever. The
"800" is an excellent radio. Darren
http://www.geocities.com/apocalyptic121/index.html

[Radio E V E R H A R T]

If you get a good one.

[starman]

Please elaborate on why you think the Wellbrook is better than a well
built inverted-L with a good grounding system, a la 'Doty'.

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[Telamon]

In article <422BD837...@tech.net>, starman <sta...@tech.net>
wrote:

> Please elaborate on why you think the Wellbrook is better than a well
> built inverted-L with a good grounding system, a la 'Doty'.

It depends of course. It depends on where you live and how noisy the
property area is electrically. Where I live an inverted L works like
crap and the same goes for random wire. Now for someone like DxAce in an
electrically quieter area a random wire about 10 foot off the ground
works just fine.

Where I live an antenna that is sensitive to the electric field
component also does an excellent job of picking up all the TV's and
their satellite dish down converters and light dimmers. I have a much
better signal to noise with loop antennas. Even a folded dipole works
much bette where I live. If I owned a small active loop I would find the
quietest spot on the property and place it there. I expect it would work
better than what I'm using now.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

[sdan...@nyc.rr.com]

The AOR Loop is a good idea. If you can afford the loop, I suggest you
go for it and you'll get a big improvement in reception on your 7600.

If you object to spending so much money on an antenna, you can spend
significantly less (less than a hundred bucks, I think) on the Sony
AN-LP1 active loop antenna. Probably not as good as the AOR, but a lot
cheaper. It would also improve your reception significantly.

Steve

[Joe Analssandrini]

Dear "Starman,"

The person who initiated this post cannot have an outdoor antenna of
any type. He lives in an apartment which, of course, has restrictions
(read the first letter in this post). That is why I did not even
mention an outdoor antenna.

In his particular case, he wanted to know if a Grundig Satellit 800
would be "better" than a Sony ICF-SW7600GR. I recommended that he FIRST
try an AOR WL500 Window Loop Antenna, the best antenna of its type I
have found (it delivers a better signal and affords a better
signal-to-noise ratio than, for example, the Sony AN-LP1 antenna,
though I like that antenna, especially for travel). I said to him that
if the AOR antenna improves his reception on the Sony, the Grundig will
definitely offer an improvement. If, however, he notices little or no
difference in reception with the AOR antenna over the "wire clipped to
antenna" he is currently using, then forget about the Grundig until he
moves to a different house.

But to answer your particular question, a Wellbrook ALA 330S Active
Loop Antenna will probably outperform ANY "real-world" short wave
antenna any of us are able to afford due to its great improvement in
the S/N ratio of the received signal. Certainly that is the case in the
summer when atmospheric noise is at its highest and, of course, in many
houses and neighborhoods with nearby electrical wires, street lamps,
buried cable-TV wires, computers, fluorescent lights, outdoor
"low-voltage" (read: transformers made in China) lighting, etc., etc.,
etc.

The Wellbrook is far less sensitive to the "electrical" component of
the particular frequency to which you are tuned. That makes all the
difference.

A well-built outdoor antenna - a random wire, a sloper, a dipole - will
receive more "signal" but will ALSO receive more "noise," thus
degrading the listenability of the received signal. If you are in an
electrically-quiet area, where there is little or no noise problem of
the types described above, the outdoor antenna is definitely the way to
go, at least at first.

I personally cannot have an outdoor antenna either due to homeowners'
association restrictions. The Wellbrook antenna has been like a miracle
for me! If I lived in an "ideal" world, however, I would have BOTH - an
outdoor long wire AND the Wellbrook. I can tell you, however, that I
would probably be using the Wellbrook more, especially in summer!

For most people in most situations, I feel that the Wellbrook ALA 330S
is positively the best antenna yet designed, certainly the finest
antenna I personally have experienced in well over forty years of short
wave listening.

Best,

Joe

[RHF]

DUCKY,
.
The Sony ICF-SW7600GR 'portable' AM/FM Shortwave Radio plus the
Sony AN-LP1 'portable' Shortwave Loop Antenna are a 'matched-set'
for a an On-the-Go "Travel" Shortwave Listening System.
.
ABOUT - The Sony ICF-SW7600GR 'portable' AM/FM Shortwave Radio
http://tinyurl.com/6cwoy
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ea86e2c6735c3459

.
ABOUT - Antennas for the Sony ICF-SW7600GR Radio
http://tinyurl.com/527dg
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/b1d440c902c16d45

.
WEBPAGE - The Sony ICF-SW7600 Series Page
http://tinyurl.com/4rumo
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/f5acbe683366a500

.
? Is this the Antenna I want for my Sony ICF-SW7600GR Radio ?
http://tinyurl.com/65nx9
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3de6204ae5d69cca

.
? Sony ICF-SW7600GR Radio - Any Thoughts ?
http://tinyurl.com/5at8n
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/5de0b141f462d88d

.
Check-Out the Sony ICF-SW7600GR Radio eGroup on YAHOO !
GROUP => http://groups.yahoo.com/group/7600GR/
All are Welcome and Invited-to-Join this Group.
.
.
However - If I were looking for a single stand-a-lone Table-Top
Shortwave Radio for a "Fixed Location" then I would 'choose' the
Grundig Satellit 800-M because it has more built-in Tools for
Advance Radio Reception and Improved Broadcast Radio Listening
Enjoyment.
+ A Better Functioning AM SYNC Circuit
+ Three IF Band Widths
+ Fast & Slow AGC
+ Selectable SSB LSB & USB
+ Ease of Operation = Size and Layout of Controls
+ Better Sound Quality
+ Whip Antenna {Mega Size} and Pre-Amplifier
.
ABOUT - The "Mega Sized" Whip Antenna of the Grundig Satellit 800-M.
Grundig Satellit 800-M has a built-in Whip Antenna and Pre-Amplifier
This "Whip Antenna" is a design for an earlier age of radio
when Whip Antennas were designed and engineered to be real
signal gatherers: Large and Long and Thick at the base and
tapering to the tip. The majority of today's portable radios
have short and thin whip antennas; which provide minimum signal
gathering. Grundig Satellit 800-M's "Whip Antenna" is MEGA Sized
when compared to the average whip antenna on most of today's
smaller portable radios. Plus with the Grundig Satellit 800-M
you have the built-in Whip Antenna Pre-Amplifier for add
signal strength.
.
IMHO: The Size and Shape of the Grundig Satellit 800-M
Whip Antenna is about the signal gathering equivalent of
one of those 23 Ft Role-Up Antennas that are required by
most other portable radios to get the same signals that
the Grundig Satellit 800-M provides.
.
FWIW - Here are Two Things to Consider
about the Grundig Satellit 800-M "Whip" Antenna
* The Grundig Satellit 800-Ms "MEGA" Size Whip Antenna
is Massive in both in Length and Thickness.
(About 4X-5X the 'effective' RF Signal receiving surface
conducting area which results in a greater 'Signal Capture
Aperture' = Higher Signal Levels and less fade.)
* Plus the Grundig Satellit 800-M has a 'built-in' Whip Antenna
PRE-AMPLIFIER.
(About 2X-4X the effective RF 'weak' Signal Sensitivity.)
.
READ - One of the Grundig Satellit 800M's
. . . Secrets for Top Perfromance
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Satellit800/message/6093
.
READ - The Grundig Satellit 800M's "MEGA" Sized Whip Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Satellit800/message/4176
.
Check-Out the Grundig Satellit 800M eGroup on YAHOO !
GROUP => http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Satellit800/
All are Welcome and Invited-to-Join this Group.
.
.
TIP - Buy Both and Enjoy your Radios : On-the-Go or At-Home !
.
.
iane ~ RHF
.
All are WELCOME and "Invited to Join" the
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna eGroup on YAHOO !
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/­Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/>
.
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/­Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/­502
.
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night . . .
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The BEYOND !
With a Shortwave Listener SWL Antenna of your own making.
"If You Build It {SWL Antenna} You Will Hear Them !"
.
.
* * * EXTRACTED from Newsgroups: Rec.Radio.Shortwave
= = = From: "Ducky" <DuckyB...@indy.rr.com>
= = = Date: 3 Mar 2005 13:47:58 -0800
= = = Local: Thurs, Mar 3 2005 1:47 pm
= = = Subject: 7600GR Vs SAT 800
.

I have a Sony 7600GR.

.

Will I get much better performance from a new Grundig SAT 800 ?

.

I think I can get a reconditioned Grundig for around $400.

.

I am just wondering if it's worth nearly $300 more than the Sony.

.
Any help appreciated.
.
.