Wire antennas again - counterweight question
bpnjensen
On a relatively short run of wire of fairly light weight (in this
case, 14 gauge stranded, insulated, and about 60-65 feet horizontal),
what's a good estimated counterweight for the far end? The wire
itself is light, but the counterweight needs to account for tension as
well. The support line is over a freewheeling pulley and is currently
tied off, but I think a modest eight would be better in this
circumstance as the near end of the line is a treetop with some sway
in the wind.
So, I ask if anybody has an idea about what a good weight night be to
maintain tension and avoid too much sagging. For starters, I was
thinking a simple barbell weight of 5 lbs or so more or less, but I'm
wide open on this one.
Thanks so much!
Bruce
D. Peter Maus
Weigh the wire. The counterweight will find a balance with the
weight of the wire, allowing an amount of sag equal to the length of
the counterweight support. Doubling the counterweight will halve the
amount of sag. Redoubling will halve the sag, again. Don't exceed
the tensile strength of the wire and start with about 4 times the
weight of the wire.
dave
Gallon jug of water
RHF
Dave that's a good handy and free starting point.
Except if you Live where the Water might Freeze {Oops!}
-and- You may be getting Snow and Ice on your
Antenna Wire and Loading it down down down,,,
Old Plastic Bleach Bottle the Kind with a Handle
built into it. Fill the Bottle with about 3~5~10+
Pounds of Small Rocks {or Gravel}. Place the Cap
back-on the Bottle and and Tie your Antenna
Tension Rope End to the Handle of the Bottle.
* Option Tape the Handle of the Bottle with Duck
Tape to Reinforce it if needed.
* Option Spray Paint the Bottle Green Brown to
blend in with the surroundings if needed.
-service- These Bottles usually last about 3-Years.
-Safety- Use a 5~6 Foot Step Ladder and Position
the Bottle at around7~8 Feet or more above Ground
so that it is not a Head Injury Hazard.
-Rigging- Use a small Pulley to Rig the Tension Rope
End through so that the natural dynamic movement
of the Antenna Wire and the Counter-Weight Bottle
can occur as it happens due to Weather.
http://g8jnj.webs.com/Multi%20antenna%20configs%28s%29.gif
BpnJ - Since you live in the SF Bay go to a Fishing
'Bait' Shop and buy a few Salmon / Down Rigger
Weights {3~5 Pound Lead Balls}
http://s.ecrater.com/stores/118075/4c371356f194a_118075n.jpg
http://cdn.sella.co.nz/images/thumb/h/0/j/60fh0j-640x500.jpg
.
-or- Old Iron Window {Sash} Weights will work too.
http://www.astronomy-pictures.net/telescopes/telescope-image-large/lot-5-antique-cast-iron-5-lb-window-weights_110625082541.jpg
http://www.fast-autos.net/diecast-cars-models/diecast-car-image-large/old-antique-window-weights-set-of-eight-3-pounds-each_160516051452.jpg
hope this helps - iane ~ RHF
.
bpnjensen
Well, the wire's already up there - but I don't think the whole roll
weighed but a couple pounds, and this is about 2/3 of the roll in the
air (maybe 65 horz feet). So, maybe something like 8 pounds will be a
good starting point. Water in any mass doesn't really freeze here (at
most we get thin ice on the birdbath, and then only about 5 or 6 times
a winter), so that gallon jug of water would be a good starting weight
-
IIRC, the tensile strength of 14 gauge wire is pretty high, over 100
lbs - isn't that right? So any reasonable weight (like less than 20)
is not liable to break it.
Good ideas, Peter and Roy and Dave - thanks.
dave
.
> -service- These Bottles usually last about 3-Years.
> -Safety- Use a 5~6 Foot Step Ladder and Position
> the Bottle at around7~8 Feet or more above Ground
> so that it is not a Head Injury Hazard.
So you want the bottle full of rocks so when the UV dissolves it the
rocks fall on people? How about a glass jug on UV treated Dacron antenna
rope?
> .
RHF
> On 02/11/2011 03:52 PM, RHF wrote:
> .
>
- - -Safety- Use a 5~6 Foot Step Ladder and Position
- - the Bottle at around7~8 Feet or more above Ground
- - so that it is not a Head Injury Hazard.
- So you want the bottle full of rocks so when the
- UV dissolves it the rocks fall on people?
Dave -which-part-of-
"-service- These Bottles usually last about 3-Years."
- How about a glass jug on UV treated Dacron
- antenna rope?
Dave : ? "Glass Jug" ?
Neighbor's Kid with a Pellet Gun
.
.
Joe from Kokomo
Let me point you in a different direction...
When you ask about a weight, that implies you will also be using a
pulley (block, for you sailors). This is another piece to purchase and
another piece to rust up and fail, at least the hardware store
galvanized ones. Don't ask what the ones for sailboats cost.
I have had a 130 foot dipole (stranded 14 ga.) up between two trees
since 1994, with no failures here in the great Midwest (lots o' wind,
lots o' snow).
I considered the weight/pulley arrangement but ultimately decided on
using a screen door spring at each end. These are typically a foot (or
a little more) long and readily available at any hardware store. I would
recommend you pay a buck or two more and get the ones that are chrome
plated and then spray paint it too, for a little additional
weatherproofing (belt AND suspenders). Works fine, lasts a long time.
bpnjensen
Hi, Joe- I have thought about a spring - those screen door springs
provide enough tension and travel? I expect up to about 3 feet travel
on that tree in the highest winds we get here.
To be honest, a counterweight is not a problem as to position and
safety. A spring might be a little bit neater if it has enough
strength and give. Neither one sounds very expensive.
Thanks, Bruce
RHF
OSH Hardware* has Good Quality Chromed Pulleys
with Brass Roller; Poly & Nylon Rope and a fair
selection of Zinc Plated Springs of all Diameters,
Lengths and Gauges. ~ RHF
Pulley : Chrome-Plated Zinc Die-Cast Housing
and Swivel Eye
http://www.fdsons.com/popup_image.php?pID=19638
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=998007122
* ACE, Home Depot and Lowe's too.
.
dave
>
> OSH Hardware* has Good Quality Chromed Pulleys
> with Brass Roller; Poly& Nylon Rope and a fair
> selection of Zinc Plated Springs of all Diameters,
> Lengths and Gauges. ~ RHF
>
You need real antenna rope. UV treated Dacron polyester antenna rope.
Joe from Kokomo
On 2/13/2011 1:03 AM, bpnjensen wrote:
> Hi, Joe- I have thought about a spring - those screen door springs
> provide enough tension and travel? I expect up to about 3 feet travel
> on that tree in the highest winds we get here.
You ask an interesting -- and possibly unanswerable by me -- question. I
really don't know how much "travel" my trees have. One end is a Norway
maple and the other end is an evergreen with a roof tripod in the
center. Antenna height is approximately 25 feet. We have experienced
winds of at least 60 mph and as stated, the antenna has been up without
failure since 1994. (knock on wood!)
As to "tension", the only answer I can give is that a) it works and b)
the antenna does not sag.
Your three feet seems like a lot of travel; I'm quite sure that the
garden variety screen door spring will -not- have that much play.
> To be honest, a counterweight is not a problem as to position and
> safety. A spring might be a little bit neater if it has enough
> strength and give. Neither one sounds very expensive.
It seems the counterweight/pulley arrangement will be just fine (and
probably necessary with that much movement), with the caveat that you
invest in a stainless steel sailboat block (expensive) because the cheap
galvanized hardware store pulleys WILL rust.
Good luck and let us know the final outcome.
bpnjensen
>
> * ACE, Home Depot and Lowe's too.
> .
OSH is my store, not the least of which because they have great free
train calendars :-)
bpnjensen
I've always used "regular" polyester rope, which I think is inherently
UV resistant. It lasts longer than the antennas do. I think Dacron
is just a brand name for polyester anyway.
dave
You can use a bungee cord if you put a UV protection sheath around it.
RHF
>
> > * ACE, Home Depot and Lowe's too.
> > .
- OSH is my store, not the least of which because
- they have great free train calendars :-)
Free Train Calendars :-) :o) :-) :o) :-) :o) :-) :o) ~ RHF
.
"Railtown" 1897 State Historic Park
http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=491
-location- Jamestown, California
http://www.railtown1897.org/railtown/default.asp
.
California State Railroad Museum
http://www.csrmf.org/
-location- Old-Town Sacramento, California
http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=668
.
Western Railway Museum
http://www.wrm.org/
-location- Suisun City, California
* Bay Area Electric Railroad Association
They are all Part of California's "Golden" Railroad History ~ RHF
.
.
bpnjensen
> .
> California State Railroad Museumhttp://www.csrmf.org/
> -location- Old-Town Sacramento, Californiahttp://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=668
> .
> -location- Suisun City, California
> * Bay Area Electric Railroad Association
>
> They are all Part of California's "Golden" Railroad History ~ RHF
> .
> .
We have a great place near my home - Niles Canyon Railway and Golden
Gate Railroad Museum:
Steam train rides all the time :-)
RHF
> On Feb 13, 6:18 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> > On 02/13/2011 04:03 AM, RHF wrote:
>
> > > OSH Hardware* has Good Quality Chromed Pulleys
> > > with Brass Roller; Poly& Nylon Rope and a fair
> > > selection of Zinc Plated Springs of all Diameters,
> > > Lengths and Gauges. ~ RHF
>
> > You need real antenna rope. UV treated Dacron polyester antenna rope.
>
- I think is inherently UV resistant. It lasts longer
- than the antennas do. I think Dacron is just a
- brand name for polyester anyway.
BpnJ : You got that right :o)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacron
http://www.davisrf.com/dacron.php
Dacron is a TradeMark {Name} for a Polyester Fiber.
http://www.answers.com/topic/dacron
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Polyethylene_terephthalate.aspx
.
That being said "Antenna Support Rope"
http://www.dxengineering.com/Products.asp?ID=114&SecID=91&DeptID=32
* Double-Braided Polyester Ropes
* Light Weight & Abrasion Resistant
* Black Polyester is UV Resistant
-note- One 350 Foot Roll of 3/16'' lasts many years
http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.asp?ID=283&PLID=114&SecID=91&DeptID=32&PartNo=STI-DBR-187-350
.
Some do like Nylon Rope :
I like the Black 'Poly' {Dacron} Rope
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/2624.html
.
*About* Synthetic Antenna Support 'Rigging' Ropes
http://radioworks.com/nrope.html
.
-but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'
{Dacron} Rope and the Antenna Wire.
http://www.w8ji.com/Image1/Good_egg.jpg
DON'T like these Plastic Antenna Insulators
http://www.wb0w.com/wb0winc/images/egg.jpg
DO Like These Plastic 'Egg' Antenna Insulators
http://www.radio-ware.com/products/pegg.htm
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35&products_id=2199
-and- Yellow is OK too
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35&products_id=1764
-another-look-at-
Rust-Proof Zinc Die Cast Pullys
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35&products_id=2045
.
.
-more- General SWL Antenna Support & Rigging
"STUFF" : Insulators, Pulleys & Rope
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=35
.
swl'ers : the question is . . .
are your antennas 'fit' to be tied ~ RHF
dave
> -but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'
>
Why?
dave
If you use insulating rope there is no need to buy insulators.
bpnjensen
I use them for strain relief. Wrapping a wire or a rope around an
insulator with a 3/4 inch radius puts less wear and tear on either
material per square mm of contact surface than tying the rope directly
to the wire. I cannot prove (off the top o' my head) this
quantitatively, but intuitively it seems right.
Having said that. I am sure there is nothing to gain electrically from
omitting the insulator.
dave
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yepp, those should work too :-)
Joe from Kokomo
> On 02/14/2011 06:51 AM, dave wrote:
>> On 02/13/2011 08:26 PM, RHF wrote:
>>
>>> -but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'
>>>
>> Why?
On 2/14/2011 10:34 AM, dave wrote:
> If you use insulating rope there is no need to buy insulators.
Well, that could be debatable. Do you have any way to quantify the RF
leakage of wet rope vs. a wet insulator to support your contention?
bpnjensen
How important would that be for receive?
m II
Hash: SHA1
Rainwater doesn't conduct very well. Also, the voltages are very low.
Power lines will arc over insulators, but that's usually caused by filth
accumulating over the insulator knob and the fact that it's a few
thousand volts.
mike
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bpnjensen
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 11-02-14 10:19 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
>
>
>
> >> On 02/14/2011 06:51 AM, dave wrote:
> >>> On 02/13/2011 08:26 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> >>>> -but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'
>
> >>> Why?
>
> > On 2/14/2011 10:34 AM, dave wrote:
>
> >> If you use insulating rope there is no need to buy insulators.
>
> > Well, that could be debatable. Do you have any way to quantify the RF
> > leakage of wet rope vs. a wet insulator to support your contention?
>
> Rainwater doesn't conduct very well. Also, the voltages are very low.
> Power lines will arc over insulators, but that's usually caused by filth
> accumulating over the insulator knob and the fact that it's a few
> thousand volts.
>
> mike
I would guess that, for RX, unless the rainwater also allows a
complete passage to ground for the signal, water on the antenna and
rope is going to do little more than extend the resonant frequency of
the antenna to a longer wavelength. If you're a monitor station for a
major broadcaster, that may be a problem. For a SWL, maybe not so
much.
dave
That wouldn't be "insulating" rope any more, technically. Fresh water on
plastic does not conduct.
dave
I've never noticed any electric effects from rain on my polyester lines;
nor on the old school clothesline I used to use (plastic over nylon?)
This would include ropes touching active elements directly on a stub
tuned vertical, in the rain, while observing reflected power. Simply not
an issue AFAIK.
bpnjensen
Yeah, but what if someone goes up in an airplane with a saltshaker?
You could be in trouble! ;-)
Joe from Kokomo
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 11-02-14 10:19 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/14/2011 06:51 AM, dave wrote:
>>>> On 02/13/2011 08:26 PM, RHF wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> -but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'
>>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>
>> On 2/14/2011 10:34 AM, dave wrote:
>>
>>> If you use insulating rope there is no need to buy insulators.
>>
>> Well, that could be debatable. Do you have any way to quantify the RF
>> leakage of wet rope vs. a wet insulator to support your contention?
On 2/14/2011 1:15 PM, m II wrote:
> Rainwater doesn't conduct very well.
Well, THAT'S debatable too. Sadly, in today's world, rainwater can
contain a lot of sulfuric acid (pollution from coal-fired power plants),
and H2SO4 is a -very- good conductor.
Sorry, a) I am old fashioned and b) I am also used to transmitting on my
antennas.
If you were just receiving and desperate to save a couple of bucks on
insulators, you -may- be able to get away with it (or not).
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Around these parts, not too much H2SO4, but lotsa other tailpipe
emissions.
dave
>> If you were just receiving and desperate to save a couple of bucks on
>> insulators, you -may- be able to get away with it (or not).- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Around these parts, not too much H2SO4, but lotsa other tailpipe
> emissions.
Snow and sand are much more significant than rain. They cause more noise
and anomalies in general, yet, nobody bothers. Same with egg insulators
as far as I'm concerned (they are for breaking wire rope guys into
non-resonant lengths and for isolating power distribution poles from the
ground. They are not for the end of an SWL long wire.)
I worry more about wind.
bpnjensen
RHF
- - On 02/13/2011 08:26 PM, RHF wrote:
- - -but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'
- Why?
Dave -in-a-word- "Tradition" ~ RHF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw
.
.
RHF
> On Feb 14, 7:34 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> > On 02/14/2011 06:51 AM, dave wrote:
>
> > > On 02/13/2011 08:26 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> > >> -but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'
>
> > > Why?
>
Dave -changing-the-subject-line-to-read-
"Kiss It Stupid Simple"
Says more about "YOU" then 'me' ~ RHF
Dave -where-as-'i'-say-
Keep It Simple and Practical ! : [KISAP!]
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4d1cdeb93902f3d3
.
- - If you use insulating rope there is no need to buy insulators.
I have done some temporary SWL Antennas
without Insulators -but- All of my permanent
SWL Antennas have Insulators between the
Wire and the 'Poly' Rope. -why- TRADITION !
- I use them for strain relief. Wrapping a wire
- or a rope around an insulator with a 3/4 inch
- radius puts less wear and tear on either
- material per square mm of contact surface
- than tying the rope directly to the wire.
- I cannot prove (off the top o' my head) this
- quantitatively, but intuitively it seems right.
-
- Having said that. I am sure there is nothing
- to gain electrically from omitting the insulator.
BpnJ - A Good Answer :o)
A Hard Insulator does not become contaminated
with all sorts of things -while- A Soft Woven Rope
can Absorb the Contaminates.
Add Rain and Water an two things Happen :
* The Hard Insulator has the contamination
washed off.
-result- A 'Clean' Insulator
* The Soft Woven Rope can Abosb the Water and
now you have Water mixed with the Contaminates.
-result- The Rope is no longer as good an Insulator
as when it was New un-contaminated and dry.
ALSO : As you point out the Right Insulator will give
you better mechanical 'strain' relief then joining the
Wire directly to the Rope.
* Usually I wrap both the Wire and the Rope twice
[2X] through the Insulator before Wrap the Wire back
on itself; and Tie the Rope Knot
NOTE : This is why I like 'Plastic Egg Insulators'
http://www.radio-ware.com/products/pegg.htm
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=1764
+PLUS+ -in-a-word- "Tradition" ~ RHF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw
.
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4d1cdeb93902f3d3
.
.
RHF
- http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/81866--nylon-thimbles-1-4.html
Wow Dave a "Nylon Thimbles" at around Buck a piece.
http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/81866--nylon-thimbles-1-4.html
...HUMmmm... "Nylon" a Plastic Insulator of sorts ;;-}}
-where-as-these-
Low-cost Plastic Egg Insulators in a Bag of 10
only Cost around 60 Cents a piece.
http://www.radio-ware.com/products/pegg.htm
* Designed for the intended application
* Mechanical Strain Relief for both the Wire and Rope
* Plus Lower Cost :o)
-again- Dave -changing-the-subject-line-to-read-
"Kiss It Stupid Simple"
Says more about "YOU" then 'me' ~ RHF
Dave -where-as-'i'-say-
Keep It Simple and Practical ! : [KISAP!]
-no-need-to-call{imply}-anyone{is}-'stupid-
RHF
> > On 02/14/2011 06:51 AM, dave wrote:
> >> On 02/13/2011 08:26 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> >>> -but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'
>
> >> Why?
>
> On 2/14/2011 10:34 AM, dave wrote:
- - If you use insulating rope there is no need to buy insulators.
- Well, that could be debatable.
- Do you have any way to quantify the RF leakage of wet
- rope vs. a wet insulator to support your contention?
Joe from Kokomo : What I was told many years ago
and still believe today is :
A Hard Insulator does not become contaminated with
all sorts of things -while- A Soft Woven Rope can Absorb
the Contaminates.
Now Add Rain {Water} and two things can Happen :
* The Hard Insulator has the Surface 'contamination'
Washed-Off.
-result- A Good 'Clean' Fully Functioning Insulator :o)
* The Soft Woven Rope can Absob the Rain Water
-and- Now you have Water 'mixed' with what all the
Contaminates that have penetrated the Rope.
-result- The Rope is no longer as good an Insulator
as when it was New un-contaminated and dry.
Just seemed reasonable to me -but- I have never seen
and Test Data that confirms this 'common-sense'.
.
yes it is that simple - iane ~ RHF
.
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4d1cdeb93902f3d3
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fbfabdc1ab2447e8
.
.
dave
> -where-as-these-
> Low-cost Plastic Egg Insulators in a Bag of 10
> only Cost around 60 Cents a piece.
> http://www.radio-ware.com/products/pegg.htm
> * Designed for the intended application
> * Mechanical Strain Relief for both the Wire and Rope
> * Plus Lower Cost :o)
It says they are made for electric fences. You have to buy 10 at a time.
RHF
Joe from Kokomo,
There are All Sorts and Forms of Pollution in the Air :
Chemical + Particle + Mineral + Organic
-and-some-of-them-when-mixed-'conduct'-
An Antenna Support/Rigging Rope that has been
In-the-Air for a Year is a "Dirty'* Rope.
* Contaminated
The Soft Woven Rope can Absorb the Rain Water
-and- Now you have Water 'mixed' with what all the
Contaminates that have penetrated the Rope.
-result- The Rope is no longer as good an Insulator
as when it was New un-contaminated and dry.
-while-
The Hard Insulator has the Surface 'contamination'
Washed-Off.
-result- A Good 'Clean' Fully Functioning Insulator :o)
well that is how 'i' see it . . .
dirty dirty dirty - iane ~ RHF
.
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4d1cdeb93902f3d3
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fbfabdc1ab2447e8
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/92de820b04ebea34
.
.
dave
I buy 14 g stranded for 30 something in 500' rolls. It has plastic
insulation. I use it for antennas and for ground radials. I have an SWR
bridge I bought with the money I saved by not buying useless junk like
woven copper antenna wire and egg insulators.
m II
Hash: SHA1
Impossible! I can't even afford ONE electric fence, never mind TEN.
mike
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JgnSzW/BpHErJMyh9qFviOm0qmgHbs2GThctDg1SbB+szuW5EnT4g4R2x7T1aRE=
=rfs3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
RHF
>
>
>
> >> On 02/14/2011 06:51 AM, dave wrote:
> >>> On 02/13/2011 08:26 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> >>>> -but- I still use Antenna Insulators between the 'Poly'
>
> >>> Why?
>
> > On 2/14/2011 10:34 AM, dave wrote:
>
> >> If you use insulating rope there is no need to buy insulators.
>
> > Well, that could be debatable. Do you have any way to quantify the RF
> > leakage of wet rope vs. a wet insulator to support your contention?
- That wouldn't be "insulating" rope any more, technically.
- Fresh water on plastic does not conduct.
Dave,
The Rain Water is only 'Fresh' {Pure} until it lands
on something that is 'Dirty' {Contaminated}.
An Antenna Support/Rigging Rope that has been
In-the-Air for a Year is a "Dirty'* Rope.
* Contaminated by Exposure to the Environment
?WHY? 'Dirty' {Contaminated} ?
There are All Sorts and Forms of Pollution in the Air :
Chemical + Particle + Mineral + Organic
-and-some-of-them-when-mixed-with-water-'conduct'-
well that is how 'i' see it . . .
dirty dirty dirty - iane ~ RHF
.
OBTW : Dave -changing-the-subject-line-to-read-
"Kiss It Stupid Simple"
Says more about "YOU" then 'me' ~ RHF
.
-fyi- Dave -where-as-'i'-say-
Keep It Simple and Practical ! : [KISAP!]
-no-need-to-call{imply}-anyone{is}-'stupid-
.
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4d1cdeb93902f3d3
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fbfabdc1ab2447e8
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/92de820b04ebea34
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a8b6719b6ac0271f
.
.
bpnjensen
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 11-02-14 07:26 PM, dave wrote:
>
> > On 02/14/2011 06:01 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> >> -where-as-these-
> >> Low-cost Plastic Egg Insulators in a Bag of 10
> >> only Cost around 60 Cents a piece.
> >>http://www.radio-ware.com/products/pegg.htm
> >> * Designed for the intended application
> >> * Mechanical Strain Relief for both the Wire and Rope
> >> * Plus Lower Cost :o)
>
> > It says they are made for electric fences. You have to buy 10 at a time.
>
> Impossible! I can't even afford ONE electric fence, never mind TEN.
>
> mike
>
"I take offense!"
"Fine, take a fence, but that's the last one - we're all tapped out!"
RHF
- - On 02/14/2011 06:01 PM, RHF wrote:
- - -where-as-these-
- - Low-cost Plastic Egg Insulators in a Bag of 10
- - only Cost around 60 Cents a piece.
- - http://www.radio-ware.com/products/pegg.htm
- - * Designed for the intended application
- - * Mechanical Strain Relief for both the Wire and Rope
- - * Plus Lower Cost :o)
- It says they are made for electric fences.
- You have to buy 10 at a time.
Dave : You're Right !
They Should Be Cheaper By The Dozen ! ;;-}}
Then Again Dave : You would recommend using
'Nylon' Thimbles instead . . .
Basically the same item from a different 'source'
http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=2199
"C-150" Economy Wire Insulator @ ~50 Cents each
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/4818.html
-pay-a-little-more-
http://www.hamcq.com/wire-antennas/insulators-black/prod_260.html
-and-pay-a-lot-more-
http://cgi.ebay.com/250761333802
Dave these are "Good" EGGS {Insulators}
http://www.w8ji.com/Image1/Good_egg.jpg
-as-referenced-here-
Beverage Antenna Construction
-by- C.T. Rauch [W8JI]
http://www.w8ji.com/beverages.htm
-but- I gennerally used these 'too thin' Eggs
http://www.w8ji.com/Beverages/bad_bev_parts_1.jpg
.
.
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4d1cdeb93902f3d3
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fbfabdc1ab2447e8
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/92de820b04ebea34
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a8b6719b6ac0271f
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/84d966433f500aba
.
.
arthr...@webtv.net
> On Feb 14, 6:26 pm, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> - - On 02/14/2011 06:01 PM, RHF wrote:
> - - -where-as-these-
> - - Low-cost Plastic Egg Insulators in a Bag of 10
> - - only Cost around 60 Cents a piece.
> - - * Designed for the intended application
> - - * Mechanical Strain Relief for both the Wire and Rope
> - - * Plus Lower Cost :o)
>
> - It says they are made for electric fences.
> - You have to buy 10 at a time.
>
> Dave : You're Right !
> They Should Be Cheaper By The Dozen ! ;;-}}
>
> Then Again Dave : You would recommend using
> 'Nylon' Thimbles instead . . .
>
>
> "C-150" Economy Wire Insulator @ ~50 Cents eachhttp://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/4818.html
>
> -pay-a-little-more-http://www.hamcq.com/wire-antennas/insulators-black/prod_260.html
>
>
> Dave these are "Good" EGGS {Insulators}http://www.w8ji.com/Image1/Good_egg.jpg
> -as-referenced-here-
> Beverage Antenna Construction
> -by- C.T. Rauch [W8JI]http://www.w8ji.com/beverages.htm
> .
> .
> Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
> Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4d1cdeb93902f3d3http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fbfabdc1ab2447e8http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/92de820b04ebea34http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a8b6719b6ac0271fhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/84d966433f500aba
> .
> .
Porcelain is a better insulator . I never trust plastic made items .
Just my 'tradition' .
RHF
> > .
> > .
>
- Porcelain is a better insulator .
- I never trust plastic made items .
- Just my 'tradition' .
We Got-To Have Our 'Traditions' !
.
.
dave
>
> ?WHY? 'Dirty' {Contaminated} ?
> There are All Sorts and Forms of Pollution in the Air :
> Chemical + Particle + Mineral + Organic
I don't live in Texas anymore. Except for ash, we have pretty clean air.
Dirt washes right off plastic which technically never really absorbs
anything.
dave
>
> Then Again Dave : You would recommend using
> 'Nylon' Thimbles instead . . .
>
> Basically the same item from a different 'source'
> http://www.packetradio.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=2199
>
> "C-150" Economy Wire Insulator @ ~50 Cents each
> http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/4818.html
>
I learned to make insulators out of Plexiglass in the early 1960s. Ever
since then I have used scrap plastic when the need arises. And I
transmit. To watch an SWL wanker get all anal about insulators is funny.
dxAce
Even funnier is a no-code Extra, such as yourself.
dave
> RHF wrote:
>>
>> - Porcelain is a better insulator .
>> - I never trust plastic made items .
>> - Just my 'tradition' .
>
> after long sun (UV) exposure
> like some plastic does.
Little 3" X 1/2" (id) chunks of black plastic schedule 40 pipe with
holes drilled.
D. Peter Maus
> On Feb 14, 6:38 pm, m II<C...@in.the.hat> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 11-02-14 07:26 PM, dave wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/14/2011 06:01 PM, RHF wrote:
>>
>>>> -where-as-these-
>>>> Low-cost Plastic Egg Insulators in a Bag of 10
>>>> only Cost around 60 Cents a piece.
>>>> http://www.radio-ware.com/products/pegg.htm
>>>> * Designed for the intended application
>>>> * Mechanical Strain Relief for both the Wire and Rope
>>>> * Plus Lower Cost :o)
>>
If you're talking about a receiving antenna, there's really
little loss in using a piece of line tied directly to the antenna
wire to maintain tension.
But consider, that the line will be in contact with other
infrastructure. A tree, a pole. The house, or garage.....whatever
you use to support the block. And while dry, that may be no issue,
when wet, there's enough conductivity to take a nearby static strike
up directly into your front end. May not be the best result.
Using an egg insulator between the line and the wire of your
antenna allows that extra bit of isolation that may save your input.
It also allows a more secure mounting of the antenna, and attachment
to your tensioning line because the mechanical strain is almost
entirely borne by the insulator. Further, if correctly installed,
the egg is, itself, in compression, not tension, so even if damaged,
there isn't an immediate danger of release.
For a receiving antenna, there are few differences in
performance. But there are a few benefits to using an insulator
mechanically. And there may be benefits if there are static issues
at your listening post.
A good quality ceramic egg is the better option. Both
mechanically and electrically, and will deteriorate less over time,
when exposed to the elements.
dave
>
> If you're talking about a receiving antenna, there's really little loss
> in using a piece of line tied directly to the antenna wire to maintain
> tension.
>
> But consider, that the line will be in contact with other
> infrastructure. A tree, a pole. The house, or garage.....whatever you
> use to support the block. And while dry, that may be no issue, when wet,
> there's enough conductivity to take a nearby static strike up directly
> into your front end. May not be the best result.
>
> Using an egg insulator between the line and the wire of your antenna
> allows that extra bit of isolation that may save your input. It also
> allows a more secure mounting of the antenna, and attachment to your
> tensioning line because the mechanical strain is almost entirely borne
> by the insulator. Further, if correctly installed, the egg is, itself,
> in compression, not tension, so even if damaged, there isn't an
> immediate danger of release.
>
> For a receiving antenna, there are few differences in performance. But
> there are a few benefits to using an insulator mechanically. And there
> may be benefits if there are static issues at your listening post.
>
> A good quality ceramic egg is the better option. Both mechanically and
> electrically, and will deteriorate less over time, when exposed to the
> elements.
>
>
>
and plastic. It requires no guys, but I use them anyway due to hurricane
force winds some times. I have 4 [ea] Dacron antenna ropes, tied
directly to the radiating metal of the upper half of the vertical dipole
at about 22 feet AGL. The ropes are at a 45 degree angle and tied to
stakes in the ground.
Wet ropes, as described above, make no difference. Inductively coupled
energy from nearby lightning strikes will get directly into your
transmission line, regardless of your clean eggs. That's why you use Arc
Plugs or something similar.
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-270.jpg
bpnjensen
> dave wrote:
>
> >http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-270.jpg
>
> Looks like the gas discharge type I have.
> Somewhere I heard someone say that they go shorted when hit,
> like a MOV, but that seems counterintuitive and it seems more likely
> that they would just go permanently open by out gassing.
> What's your opinion on this?
My DX-Ultra has a proprietary gas discharge arc-plug in its core.
Alpha Delta says that after several years of significant static, it
can get weak and the antenna won't function as well. Just to be anal,
I put in a new one about 6 years ago, and it's worked about the same
before and after and ever since.
RHF
> On 02/14/2011 07:43 PM, RHF wrote:
>
>
>
> > Then Again Dave : You would recommend using
> > 'Nylon' Thimbles instead . . .
>
> > Basically the same item from a different 'source'
>
> > "C-150" Economy Wire Insulator @ ~50 Cents each
> >http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/4818.html
- I learned to make insulators out of Plexiglass in
- the early 1960s. Ever since then I have used scrap
- plastic when the need arises.
Dave : Home make is 'ok'
-while- Telling a SWL Newbie to go out an Buy a
low cost ready made part "Antenna Insulator" is
more simple and practical for them to do.
-cause-i-am-into-simple-and-practical-
.
- And I transmit.
Dave {Bowing Three Times Down Before You}
salami,,, Salami... BALONEY ! ! !
Dave : and 'i' don't transmit
-while-
My only claim to fame is that 'i' am just a plain-old
Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] who like listening
to the radio.
.
- To watch an SWL wanker get all anal about
- insulators is funny.
Dave : Spoken/Written Like A Real Exhaled "HAM" !
{Bowing Three Times Down Before You}
salami,,, Salami... BALONEY ! ! !
So 'Special-Dave' : ? "wanker" ?
WOW anyone who opinion disagrees with you is a "Wanker" !
Ah... 'Special-Dave' when you Opine on "Wackers"
. . . It's So Self-Reflective ! ~ RHF
.
.
So 'Special-Dave' : ? "all anal" ?
WOW anyone who offers a different point of view
based on their experience is "All Anal".
Ah... 'Special-Dave' when you Opine on "All Anal"
. . . It's Like a Self-Portrait ! ~ RHF
.
.
=Conclusion= 'Special-Dave' : Proving Once Again
That You Are NO Libertarian of any stripe -but- an
Intolerant Elitist* with Liberal-Fascist tendencies.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/920c3f7fdd38ee9b
-dave-too-much-medial-marijuana-smoking-again-
.
* Some one with a "HAM" License who thinks it
makes him a 'god'. -oops-another-inconvenient-truth-
.
Dave : I Stand-By My Prior Posts ~ RHF
wanker wanker wanker wanker-ly yours ;;-}}
all anal anal anal anal anal anal-ly yours ;;-}}
.
Wire antennas again - counterweight question
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/95dff94ad85bcc1d
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/7ee7ba94f679a35d
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/bf8fe9e9b06d2a33
.
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4d1cdeb93902f3d3
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/47248e1cd8a3c541
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fbfabdc1ab2447e8
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e436dc7033cb64ae
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/92de820b04ebea34
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a8b6719b6ac0271f
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/84d966433f500aba
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/7d55d4e8f9b60e8a
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/c6d1394b9ae07632
.
.
arthr...@webtv.net
> On 02/14/2011 07:43 PM, RHF wrote:
>
>
>
> > Then Again Dave : You would recommend using
> > 'Nylon' Thimbles instead . . .
>
> > Basically the same item from a different 'source'
>
> > "C-150" Economy Wire Insulator @ ~50 Cents each
> >http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/4818.html
>
> I learned to make insulators out of Plexiglass in the early 1960s. Ever
> since then I have used scrap plastic when the need arises. And I
> transmit. To watch an SWL wanker get all anal about insulators is funny.
Not really. Some of us,over here, are hardcore--diehard--SWL--nuts .
And Perfectionists on top of that ... Just some of us, not all .
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
From what I saw--- there is NO protection against a Direct Lightning
strike . Just ask any utility/cable guy !
bpnjensen
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> From what I saw--- there is NO protection against a Direct Lightning
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think the only way to *possibly* prevent a lightning jump to your
equipment and house is to provide a total disconnect and shunt to
exterior ground. Otherwise, a lightning stroke can leap a mighty
distance.
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
It's a sickness ;-)
arthr...@webtv.net
On the subject of front end protection. Some very good (old-time)
designs contained a simple neon light (120vac) across the antenna
terminals . Such modestly priced extra protection never hurts . Gas
discharge tube type is much better,though .
dave
> dave wrote:
>>
>> http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-270.jpg
>
> Looks like the gas discharge type I have.
> Somewhere I heard someone say that they go shorted when hit,
> like a MOV, but that seems counterintuitive and it seems more likely
> that they would just go permanently open by out gassing.
> What's your opinion on this?
The instructions point out that this happens and that you can get back
on the air by removing the replaceable arc pill thingy. I suspect a
charge big enough to fuse the gap would have been a front-end killer. I
was a firm believer in Power MOVs when I was a station engineer in South
Texas.
dave
I said "inductively coupled energy"; not direct strikes. The egg won't
stop those either.
dave
I'd probably get some metal ones from the rigging department.
RHF
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > From what I saw--- there is NO protection against a Direct Lightning
> > strike . Just ask any utility/cable guy !- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
- I think the only way to *possibly* prevent a lightning
- total disconnect and shunt to exterior ground.
- Otherwise, a lightning stroke can leap a mighty distance.
ZAP ! - Lightning Has Many Paths To Follow To
Create Radio Equipment Disaster For You - ZAP !
Here is the Almost Sure Proof Way To Stop It !
You walk outside to where you have your Antenna
Feed-in-Line Coax Cable coming to the House :
Where you have located your 1:1 Line Isolator and
un-screw the House-Side PL-259 Plug on the end
of the Coax Cable going into the House from the
Isolator. Have a SO-239 Jack* mounted where
you could easily hang up the Coax and Screw the
PL-259 Plug into it.
* The SO-239 Jack should be Shorted from Center
to the Threaded Outer-Ring.
Now You Do This Each and Every Time You Use
{come home} and Don't Use {leave home} Your
Radio Equipment and can reasonably be sure that
the Radio Equipment is Safe from your Antenna
System being a Lightning Path to it.
...but... oops,,, Oops... OOPS ! ! !
Your House's Electrical System still could be an
'alternative' Path for Lightning to Travel and Get to
your Radio Equipment.
=OK=NOW=
Think of all the Electrical Service 'Grid' Wires that
are with-in a 1/10th of a Mile [528 Feet] from your
House all with the 'potential' To-Channel the Energy
from a Nearby Lightning Strike into your House
{Neighbor's Houses too} and Do Real Damage to
Everything in-side of it; that is "Plugged-In".
-oh-the-horror-
So -rotfl- Un-Plug Everything Before You Leave ;;-}} ~ RHF
.
.
RHF
-wrt- Gas Discharge Arc-Plug [G-DAP]
* If it's OK You Won't Notice It In Receive.
* If it's Blown You Won't Notice It In Receive.
* If it's Shorted You Will Notice It In Receive.
Note 99+% of the time if a G-DAP has done it's 'J-O-B' :
It is Blown -and- The Blown G-DAP is Useless.
Very seldom do G-DAP's Short; if at all.
-hint- One way that you might suspect that the G-DAP
is 'Shorted' is if the Paint on your Antenna Switch is
. . . Burnt. ;;-}} ~ RHF
.
bpnjensen
> I agree that MOVs do fuse the junction, but they are solid state,
> whereas I don't see how gaseous content becomes permanently conductive.
Maybe it forms a coating on the inside of the plug?
Joe from Kokomo
> On the subject of front end protection. Some very good (old-time)
> designs contained a simple neon light (120vac) across the antenna
> terminals . Such modestly priced extra protection never hurts . Gas
> discharge tube type is much better,though .
Don't want to use a 120 VAC neon bulb...it has a series resistor. Just
use a plain NE-2 neon bulb without any series resistor, it fires at 60
volts and IS by definition a "gas discharge" tube.
Joe from Kokomo
> -where-as-these-
> Low-cost Plastic Egg Insulators in a Bag of 10
> only Cost around 60 Cents a piece.
Well, you really don't want egg insulators for this application --
that's not what they are designed for.
Their intended use is for guy wires, to break them up into non-resonant
lengths for towers that will be used to support a transmitting antenna.
Furthermore, if the egg insulator should happen to break, the sections
of guy wire will still be looped together, still providing mechanical
integrity.
The insulator you should be talking about is the classic plastic or
glass ribbed insulator.
dave
RHF
- I agree that MOVs do fuse the junction, but they are
- solid state, whereas I don't see how gaseous content
- becomes permanently conductive.
"BD" The 'gaseous content' does not
-but- The "Container" itself may well.
*IF* The Paint on your Antenna Switch is Burnt . . .
-mission-control-we-got-a-problem-;;-}}- ~ RHF
.
.
RHF
- Maybe it forms a coating on the inside of the plug?
Only -if- The Material ofl Container Ionizes with the
Gas and forms a Compound that is then Deposited
on the interior surface that is conductive.
More likely -if- the Material/Metal got so HOT as to
Ionize it would first flow and bridge the gap by itself.
****remember***
RHF
> bpnjensen wrote:
>
> >I think the only way to *possibly* prevent a lightning jump to your
> >equipment and house is to provide a total disconnect and shunt to
> >exterior ground. Otherwise, a lightning stroke can leap a mighty
> >distance.
>
> but the amount of current that makes that leap.
- Old habit was to disconnect coax connector
- and dangle it in a mason jar, as a prophylactic
- against any strikes when we were away.
Hey Now here Is A Use For An Empty Mason Jar
as a Lightning Protector -after- I Say After !
You Have Remove ALL {Each-and-Every Drop}
of The White Lightning From It ;;-}} ~ RHF
.
.
RHF
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > From what I saw--- there is NO protection against a Direct Lightning
> > strike . Just ask any utility/cable guy !- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
- I think the only way to *possibly* prevent a
- lightning jump to your equipment and house
- is to provide a total disconnect and shunt to
- exterior ground. Otherwise, a lightning stroke
- can leap a mighty distance.
?Q? : Are Your SWL Antennas Built Safe ?
=WRT= Best Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] Practices
.
If the Lighning can make the Jump from 40K Feet up in
the Clouds and all the way down to the Ground in your
backyard : It can make it the last 50~100 Feet from the
Far-End of your SWL Antenna to your Radio Equipment
inside your house. {and you and your family too}
.
Hence the best you can do is used a Far-End Feed-Point
for the SWL Antenna; with a Matching Transformer mounted
directly on-to a 8-Feet earthen Ground Rod; with a Buried
Coax Cable Feed-in-Line to the House; with a 1:1 Line
Isolator on another 8-Feet earthen Ground Rod just before
the Coax Cable goes into the House.
.
+ Plus inside the House use an Antenna Switch with a
Neutral Position to :
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/switch/2415alt.gif
1 - Disconnect the Antenna from Radio/receivers
2 - Short-Out the Antenna Inputs to Ground
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/switch/2415.html
.
IMHO : Using an Antenna Switch* in the Radio is also
a 'Best Practice' for SWLs using External {Outside}
SWL Antennas.
* Grounded with a separate Copper Ground Wire : Don't
rely on the Coax Cable's Shield for a Ground 'connection'.
.
KISAP : Keeping It Simple and Practical - iane ~ RHF
-aka- Keeping It Safe and Practical -too-
.
Hey "KISSAP" : Keeping It Simple, Safe and Practical ! :o)
.
-was-
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/81b4ba55dca9170b
.
-was- -was-
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/29119efa93d3a8a7
.
-was- -was- -was-
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/7d55d4e8f9b60e8a
.
.
RHF
> On 2/14/2011 9:01 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> > -where-as-these-
> > Low-cost Plastic Egg Insulators in a Bag of 10
> > only Cost around 60 Cents a piece.
>
> Well, you really don't want egg insulators for this application --
> that's not what they are designed for.
>
> Their intended use is for guy wires, to break them up into non-resonant
> lengths for towers that will be used to support a transmitting antenna.
> Furthermore, if the egg insulator should happen to break, the sections
> of guy wire will still be looped together, still providing mechanical
> integrity.
- The insulator you should be talking about is
- the classic plastic or glass ribbed insulator.
. . . Consider the Alternatives . . .
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-10/Fig7-2.gif
-dream-on-dave- dream-on-
JfK : As Dave pointed out I am a 'wacker' and I am
really really 'Wackie for Egg Insulators ;;-}} ~ RHF
http://www.winradio.com/home/sw-antenna1.gif
ok Ok OK You Can Have A Nice Big Dog Bone :o)
http://www.theaudioguru.com/product_images/g/154/jtbdog__15118_zoom.jpg
Unless you are into Ridges {Ruffles}
http://www.ssejim.co.uk/insulatornewscalebig.jpg
These two are smaller {compact} and more practical
* Alpha Delta End 'CIN' Insulator
http://www.dxengineering.com/ShowRelatedProd.asp?PartNo=ALP-DELTA-CIN
* Budwig HQ-2 End Insulators
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/3412.html
NEXT : Let's Talk About Un-Adulterated 100% 'Oxygen Free'
Pure Copper Antenna Wire :o)
-ps- I am All Antenna Anal* ;;-}} ~ RHF
*-per-Dave
.
.
RHF
ok Ok OK... Dave,
You Can Have A Nice Big Dog Bone :o)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3f3bed491a77e926
.
But Dave . . . Consider the Alternatives . . . ~ RHF
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-10/F...
-dream-on-dave- dream-on-
.
.
RHF
* Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
* Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
* http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/84d966433f500aba
* ?WHY? 'Dirty' {Contaminated} ?
* There are All Sorts and Forms of Pollution in the Air :
* Chemical + Particle + Mineral + Organic
On Feb 15, 5:37 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
- I don't live in Texas anymore.
I Am Sure That's a Happy 'Hurray' for Texas & Texans ;;-}}
-fyi- Dave You Are NOT 'The Center' :
End-All-&-Be-All of the Shortwave Radio World
-and- Some SWL'ers and Hams Do Live In Texas
and other nice places too.
.
- Except for ash, we have pretty clean air.
Dave : Clear Air is Good :o)
.
- Dirt washes right off plastic
Dave : Yes Dirt {Contaminates} generally wash-off
of Hard Plastics. -like-insulators-and-such-
.
- which technically never really absorbs anything.
Yes Hard Plastics in most instances do not absorb
{hold} most things. Just as a Porcelain 'glazed'
Ceramic does not absorb {hold} most things.
Where-as un-glazed Ceramics can and do absorb
{hold} most things including water.
.
? SIMPLE : IS MY AIR "DIRTY" EXPERIMENT !
Dave go anywhere out in your backyard and stretch-out
and secure a few 30" piece of Clear Packing Tape side
by side on a flat horizontal surface about 5~10 Feet off
the ground with the sticky side up. Wait a Month and
come back and check it out.
-it's-'covered'-with-all-kinds-of-"stuff"-
It's Dirty {Contaminated} with All Sorts and Forms of
"Stuff" {Pollution & Contaminates} in the Air : Dirt+
Chemicals + Particles + Dust + Minerals + Organics
-and-some-of-them-when-mixed-with-water-'conduct'-
NOW : Imagine that same Tape in a Year . . .
Dacron 'Poly' Braided Rope is Woven and has a Weave
that can Trap Things in the Rope's Surface Texture.
Dacron 'Poly' Braided Rope is a Plastic and can develop
a Static Charge resulting in Static Cling and Attract Many
Things to the Rope's Surface.
YES Dave : A Soft Woven Rope can and does Attract
and Absorb Dirt {Contaminates}. -aka- Plastic Static
Cling. Plus a Soft Woven {Braided} Rope can Trap Dirt
{Contaminates} in the Weave.
Now Dave where BpnJ lives in the SF Bay Area next to
the SF Bay and it's Salty Water and Salt Air; a small
amount of the Salt gets 'deposited' on everything that is
Outside and Exposed to the Salty-Air
-and- Overtime this Salt gets washed-a-way from {Off-of}
Hard Surfaces
-but- More often the Salt Air, Salt Dew and Salt Laden
'Fog' gets deposited and redeposited time and time
again on Soft Absorbent Surfaces and Trap in all those
little nooks and crannies like the Weave of a Rope.
THUS : In the SF Bay Area "Insulators" -imho- Should Be
Used As A 'Best Practice' When Building SWL Antennas [.]
-and- In general 'i' recommend using "Insulators" as a
'Best Practice' when building SWL Antennas - iane ~ RHF
.
.
Dave : I Stand-By My Prior Posts ~ RHF
wanker wanker wanker wanker-ly yours ;;-}}
all anal anal anal anal anal-ly yours too ;;-}}
.
Wire antennas again - counterweight question
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/95dff94ad85bcc1d
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/7ee7ba94f679a35d
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/bf8fe9e9b06d2a33
.
Wire SWL Antennas : ? The Question Is . . .
Are Your SWL Antennas Fit-To-Be-Tied !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4d1cdeb93902f3d3
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/47248e1cd8a3c541
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fbfabdc1ab2447e8
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e436dc7033cb64ae
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/92de820b04ebea34
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a8b6719b6ac0271f
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/84d966433f500aba
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/7d55d4e8f9b60e8a
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/c6d1394b9ae07632
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/29119efa93d3a8a7
.
Lightning Has Many Paths To Follow To Create
A Radio Equipment Disaster For You
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ff8475a74d4f0ed3
.
My 'Gas Discharge Arc-Plug' [G-DAP] : Is It Still Good ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/272a68c43d8a37bd
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a1b032d3856d7d31
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ed67d64bee93e1b2
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/5f2d335393239a9e
.
ok Ok OK... You Can Have A Nice Big Dog Bone :o)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3f3bed491a77e926
.
.
dave
> Hey Now here Is A Use For An Empty Mason Jar
> as a Lightning Protector -after- I Say After !
>
> You Have Remove ALL {Each-and-Every Drop}
> of The White Lightning From It ;;-}} ~ RHF
> .
> .
Why not short the center conductor to ground?
dave
Ever used this?
arthr...@webtv.net
> On Feb 15, 5:18 pm, Joe from Kokomo <j...@indy.net> wrote:
>
> > On 2/14/2011 9:01 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> > > -where-as-these-
> > > Low-cost Plastic Egg Insulators in a Bag of 10
> > > only Cost around 60 Cents a piece.
>
> > Well, you really don't want egg insulators for this application --
> > that's not what they are designed for.
>
> > Their intended use is for guy wires, to break them up into non-resonant
> > lengths for towers that will be used to support a transmitting antenna.
> > Furthermore, if the egg insulator should happen to break, the sections
> > of guy wire will still be looped together, still providing mechanical
> > integrity.
>
> - The insulator you should be talking about is
> - the classic plastic or glass ribbed insulator.
>
> -dream-on-dave- dream-on-
>
> JfK : As Dave pointed out I am a 'wacker' and I am
>
> ok Ok OK You Can Have A Nice Big Dog Bone :o)http://www.theaudioguru.com/product_images/g/154/jtbdog__15118_zoom.jpg
>
> Unless you are into Ridges {Ruffles}http://www.ssejim.co.uk/insulatornewscalebig.jpg
>
> These two are smaller {compact} and more practical
> * Budwig HQ-2 End Insulatorshttp://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/3412.html
>
> NEXT : Let's Talk About Un-Adulterated 100% 'Oxygen Free'
> Pure Copper Antenna Wire :o)
>
> -ps- I am All Antenna Anal* ;;-}} ~ RHF
> *-per-Dave
> .
> .
Maybe Dave can shed some light on his mysterious Wanker antenna ... or
is it Wankel ?
RHF
Dave - Nah nothing that fancy :
Just plain old Nylon and 'Poly' Rope. ~ RHF
.
RHF
> On 02/15/2011 07:09 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> > Hey Now here Is A Use For An Empty Mason Jar
> > as a Lightning Protector -after- I Say After !
>
> > You Have Remove ALL {Each-and-Every Drop}
> > of The White Lightning From It ;;-}} ~ RHF
> > .
> > .
- Why not short the center conductor to ground?
One time I did have a Aluminum Ground Plate ~30"x45"
on Top of the Radio Desk with a SO-239 Plug and some
times I even remembered to disconnect the Antenna from
the Radio. Found that the Alpha-Delta Antenna Switch
with the 'Center' "COMM" {Disconnected & Grounded}
Position was easier to use and and hard to forget. :o)
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/switch/2415alt.gif
~ RHF
.
dave
I have. Trust me, it works in the rain.
dave
> On Feb 16, 4:38 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>> On 02/15/2011 07:09 PM, RHF wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Now here Is A Use For An Empty Mason Jar
>>> as a Lightning Protector -after- I Say After !
>>
>>> You Have Remove ALL {Each-and-Every Drop}
>>> of The White Lightning From It ;;-}} ~ RHF
>>> .
>>> .
>
> - Why not short the center conductor to ground?
>
> One time I did have a Aluminum Ground Plate ~30"x45"
> on Top of the Radio Desk with a SO-239 Plug and some
> times I even remembered to disconnect the Antenna from
> the Radio. Found that the Alpha-Delta Antenna Switch
> Position was easier to use and and hard to forget. :o)
> http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/switch/2415alt.gif
>
> ~ RHF
> .
Odd. The label on my Delta-2 says "COM" not "COMM".
RHF
> On 02/17/2011 06:53 PM, RHF wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 16, 4:38 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
> >> On 02/15/2011 07:09 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> >>> Hey Now here Is A Use For An Empty Mason Jar
> >>> as a Lightning Protector -after- I Say After !
>
> >>> You Have Remove ALL {Each-and-Every Drop}
> >>> of The White Lightning From It ;;-}} ~ RHF
> >>> .
> >>> .
>
> > - Why not short the center conductor to ground?
>
> > One time I did have a Aluminum Ground Plate ~30"x45"
> > on Top of the Radio Desk with a SO-239 Plug and some
> > times I even remembered to disconnect the Antenna from
> > the Radio.
- - Found that the Alpha-Delta Antenna Switch
- - with the 'Center' "COMM" {Disconnected & Grounded}
- - Position was easier to use and and hard to forget. :o)
- - http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/switch/2415alt.gif
- -
- - ~ RHF
- Odd. The label on my Delta-2 says "COM" not "COMM".
Dave : That's a 'Typo' on my part [COMM -v- 'COM']. ~ RHF
-the-link-shows-it-right-'com'-
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/switch/2415alt.gif
.
.
dave
If you think I follow YOUR links you are nuttier than I thought.
RHF
> So, a mechanical question this time -
>
> On a relatively short run of wire of fairly light weight (in this
> case, 14 gauge stranded, insulated, and about 60-65 feet horizontal),
> what's a good estimatedcounterweightfor the far end? The wire
> itself is light, but thecounterweightneeds to account for tension as
> well. The support line is over a freewheeling pulley and is currently
> tied off, but I think a modest eight would be better in this
> circumstance as the near end of the line is a treetop with some sway
> in the wind.
>
> So, I ask if anybody has an idea about what a good weight night be to
> maintain tension and avoid too much sagging. For starters, I was
> thinking a simple barbell weight of 5 lbs or so more or less, but I'm
> wide open on this one.
>
> Thanks so much!
> Bruce
Here is a Table with the Weights of AWG Wires :
* Feet-per-Pound of Wire
http://www.interfacebus.com/Copper_Wire_AWG_SIze.html
Roughly 80 Feet of # 14 AWG is around One Pound Weight.
* Weight of 1000 Feet of Wire
http://www.engineersedge.com/copper_wire.htm
http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/wire-cu.htm
Roughly 1000 Feet of # 14 AWG is around 12 Pounds Weight.
AWG = American Wire Gauge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
http://www.engineersedge.com/copper_wire.htm
iane ~ RHF
.
RHF
> On 02/19/2011 03:19 AM, RHF wrote:
>
> > On Feb 18, 5:41 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
> > - - ~ RHF
>
> > - Odd. The label on my Delta-2 says "COM" not "COMM".
>
> > Dave : That's a 'Typo' on my part [COMM -v- 'COM']. ~ RHF
> > -the-link-shows-it-right-'com'-
> >http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/switch/2415alt.gif
> > .
> > .
- If you think I follow YOUR links you are nuttier than I thought.
'Special-Dave' -so- you do not trust :
www.universal-radio.com
Proving Once Again 'Special-Dave' You Are
Truly As "Nuttier" As You Are ;;-}} ~ RHF
.
-ps- 'Special-Dave' you are your own
one of a kind "Missing-Link" :o)
.
.
dave
> On Feb 19, 5:53 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> - If you think I follow YOUR links you are nuttier than I thought.
>
> 'Special-Dave' -so- you do not trust :
> www.universal-radio.com
>
I said nothing of the kind. I just think it's funny that you validate
yourself with hyperlinks.
RHF
> On 02/19/2011 07:15 AM, RHF wrote:
>
> > On Feb 19, 5:53 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> > - If you think I follow YOUR links you are nuttier than I thought.
>
> > 'Special-Dave' -so- you do not trust :
> >www.universal-radio.com
- I said nothing of the kind.
- I just think it's funny that you validate yourself with hyperlinks.
Dave,
Your Reply Validates My Validation-by-Hyperlinks :o)))
-where-as- My Reply Validates That You 'Exist' :
By Acknowledging {Verifying} That I "Exist" ~ RHF
http://www.gnosticassociationny.org/Tibetan_Wheel_of_Existence.jpg
.
The 'Eye' of the Universe : Looking Back At You . . .
http://images.slashdot.org/articles/08/11/05/1516236-1.png
.
.
cuh...@webtv.net
Sun.
M-Audio Fast Track USB.Record that Guitar Music and stuff.
http://www.redferret.net/?p=6176
cuhulin