Minimum gauge for groud...
Michael
Been a while since I posted here. For the sake of noise suppression as
affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas tubes, what
would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a ground from the
radio to a ground spike and from a matching transformer to a ground spike
??? Yes, I know there is loads of info on the net, but I would like some
active opinions as some recent discussions I have had on this has been
conflicting.
Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. If you have a
long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE 180,
there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. Would you:
A. Use a separate ground wire from the matching transformer to the ground
spike and another separate ground wire from the receiver to the ground spike
???
or
B. Use one single ground wire from the receiver's ground port going up to
the matching transformer and then to the ground spike ???
I know this stuff is antenna-101, but I'm interested to see what the
opinions here are
Thanx in advance !!!
Mike D.
Northern NJ
Telamon
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Hiya...
>
> Been a while since I posted here. For the sake of noise suppression as
> affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas tubes, what
> would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a ground from the
> radio to a ground spike and from a matching transformer to a ground spike
> ??? Yes, I know there is loads of info on the net, but I would like some
> active opinions as some recent discussions I have had on this has been
> conflicting.
>
> Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. If you have a
> long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE 180,
> there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. Would you:
< SNIP >
I would ignore the bad opinions and go with the good opinions.
However, if you do decide to go with a bad opinion I would ask Billy
boy. He could probably come up with the worst reasoning or just wait a
few more minutes as RHF is putting together about 3 pages of bunk for
you to slog through. I'm looking at my watch to see how long it will
take him. Shouldn't be much longer.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Burr
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:48041156$0$11599$607e...@cv.net...
Mike, I will use what ever I have, 24 is OK. You are just "bleeding" away
the EMF that is making noise. I are not "really" trying to ground the system
against lighting or a big power surge.
IF you run off local power DO use a BIG UPS. I run off 12v batteries and
turn the charger on when I am gone. Big D50's and don't over fill.
Burr
Drakefan
ground at the lower end of the vertical downlead wire of the inverted-L
antenna. Then you can use a short, less than three feet, length of
grounding wire from the balun to the rod. The ground wire should be at
least 10-gauge, preferably larger, like 6 or 4-gauge. The coax should
run on or in the ground to the house and then to the radio. This will
prevent it from picking up noise on the coax shield, which can happen
when the coax is up in the air. It's not absolutely necessary to ground
the coax shield again near the radio if you follow the above advice.
Dave
Try both ways. I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the outer
conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the random
wire. The mast itself is grounded.
Dave
Code requires that the transmission line be grounded at the point where
it enters the structure.
The point of an MLB is that the antenna be terminated up in the air,
away from electrical noise. The downlead should be shielded.
msg
<snip>
>>
> First, the balun shouldn't be up in the air. It should be close to the
> ground at the lower end of the vertical downlead wire of the inverted-L
> antenna. Then you can use a short, less than three feet, length of
> grounding wire from the balun to the rod. The ground wire should be at
> least 10-gauge, preferably larger, like 6 or 4-gauge. The coax should
> run on or in the ground to the house and then to the radio. This will
> prevent it from picking up noise on the coax shield, which can happen
> when the coax is up in the air. It's not absolutely necessary to ground
> the coax shield again near the radio if you follow the above advice.
This is exactly the configuration that I use; it has reduced QRN considerably
in a _very_ noisy environment, but additional filtering of audio is often
needed as well.
Michael
m II
> He could probably come up with the worst reasoning or just wait a
> few more minutes as RHF is putting together about 3 pages of bunk for
> you to slog through.
Blatant, unequivocal exaggeration.
Historically, the page count has never exceeded 2.89, with the norm
being approximately 2.76
Let's keep the facts straight, shall we?
mike
Michael
"Drakefan" <Drak...@bluesky.net> wrote in message
news:nbZMj.6329$eg2.2049@trndny06...
Thank you for all the replies. My evil plan is this. Since I cant get the
matching transformer away from the house, I will secure it to the house's
brick chimney. The chimney goes all the way to the concrete foundation and
should make an excellent ground. The ICE 180's housing is metal/ground and
it has holes to be secured to an external mount. I plan to use screws
directly into the brick. I also plan to use a separate ground wire from the
radio to a brass ground spike. I'll be using 16 gauge wire to do this. I
think this should be a decent set up. I'll have a coax lead going from the
matching transformer on the chimney into the shack. That will be 30 or so
feet. The receiving wire will be erected on the roof. I may just coil 200
feet around the top of the chimney to keep it away from the house. That
would probably be better then running it around the outline of the house as
far as noise goes. Noise is a big issue here in north NJ.
Thanx Again
Mike D.
RHF
- The point of an MLB is that the antenna be terminated
- up in the air, away from electrical noise.
Dave - HUH ? ~ RHF
- The downlead should be shielded.
Dave - Say What ! ~ RHF
.
Drakefan
If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF
ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the
balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire
between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an
effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical
section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is
required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire)
sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the
antenna so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near
the ground allows for this configuration.
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article <48041156$0$11599$607ed...@cv.net>,
>
> "Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > Hiya...
>
> > Been a while since I posted here. For the sake of noise suppression as
> > affective lightning protection is almost hopeless without gas tubes, what
> > would be the minimum gauge wire that you could use for a ground from the
> > radio to a ground spike and from a matching transformer to a ground spike
> > ??? Yes, I know there is loads of info on the net, but I would like some
> > active opinions as some recent discussions I have had on this has been
> > conflicting.
>
> > Also... I've gotten conflicting opinions on this one too. If you have a
> > long wire or beverage set up on a matching transformer like the ICE 180,
> > there is a ground receptacle on the matching transformer. Would you:
>
> < SNIP >
>
-
- However, if you do decide to go with a bad opinion
- I would ask Billy boy.
-
- He could probably come up with the worst reasoning
-
- or just wait a few more minutes as RHF is putting together
- about 3 pages of bunk for you to slog through.
-
- I'm looking at my watch to see how long it will take him.
-
- Shouldn't be much longer.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California
-
OK - Telamon - Here is RHF's "Tip" on Ground Wires :
As Short As Possible -and- As Heavy As Practical.
{ Do What You Can Do To Make Both Happen }
keeping it simple and practical - iane ~ RHF
.
-ps- To Know A Lot More -about- Grounds, Grounding,
Grounding-Points and Grounding Wires : Read any and
all of the 81 Plus Messages posted here on that subject
by Me "RHF". GoTo => http://tinyurl.com/5qhv4d
.
RHF
- If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have
- an effective RF ground to prevent common mode noise
- on the coax shield.
Bad Coax Cable Grounding : Then run a separate Webbed
Ground Wire up to the Matching Transformer.
Ground "Strap" Cable
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4607.html
- That's why the balun needs to be close to the ground
- so you can use a short ground wire between the coax
- shield and the ground rod.
Yes this is 'preferred' -but- sometimes not possible to do.
- This is how you achieve an effective RF ground on the
coax shield.
Yes very true.
1 - Achieving a good 'effrective' RF Ground on {Along} the
Coax Cable's Outer Shield starts with the RF Connectors
at the Ends of the Coax Cable. -if- the outer Ring of the
RF Connectors are not making very good all around 'contact'
with 'all' {the vast majority} of the Coax Cable Shielding
Wires then your Coax Cable Shielding may not be very
effective {leakage} and too since only a feww of the total
Wires are connected the Coax Cable Shield will be a Higher
Resistance {Reactance} then is defined for the spec.
This is 'why' PL-259 Plugs that are "Soldered' to Coax Cable
that uses Copper Wire Braid is generally 'preferred'.
2 - The Ground / Ground Wire 'attachment' to the Ground Rod.
Note - Some will use one of these simple "Lightning Arrestors"
mounted directly on a Ground Rod with Two SS Hose Clamps.
3 - The Ground / Ground Wire 'attachment' to the Matching
Transformer {Balun / MLB} -or- PL-259 Plug.
TIP - Full Contact Ground Wire 'attachment' to the PL-259 Plug :
* Strip-Off 3 Inches of Insulation from your Ground Wire.
* Solder the 3 Inches of exposed Ground Wire take a pair of
Long-Nose Pliers and Shape the Gound Wire 'around' to the
Outer-Threaded-Ring of the PL-259 Plug.
Place a SS Hose Clamp over the 'formed' Ground Wire on
the PL-259 Plug and tighten the Hose Clamp to secure the
Ground Wire directly to the PL-259 Plug.
ENSURES - A 'full' 360 Degree contact between the Ground
wire and the Outer-Threaded-Ring of the PL-259 Plug.
-Note- This is done after the PL-259 Plug has been connected
to what ever it is being connected to.
- It also provides a vertical section of the antenna coming
- down from the horizontal wire.
Yes very true.
To some degree the Horizontal-Out-Arm can be directional :
While the Vertical-Up-Leg is Omni-Directional : The 'combination'
of the two generally makes the Inverted "L" Antenna an
All-Around {Omni} Non-Directional Antenna.
This is required for a true inverted-L antenna.
Hence the name Inverted "L" and the shape of the Antenna.
- The vertical section (wire) sometimes picks up a better
- signal than the horizontal wire of the antenna so it's best
- to have both sections in use.
On any given day & on any given frequency :
Who Knows What Possible : Practically Speaking.
- Having the balun near the ground allows for this configuration.
Restated another way : This configuration 'allows' the Matching
Transformer to be placed :
1 - Very Near the Ground
2 - Mounted on the earthen Ground Rod :
{Most Direct Grounding-Point and Connection}
3 - Places the "First-Ground-Path" Away-from-the-House
and 'improves' Lightning Safety for the House and it's
Occupants.
4 - Allows the Coax Cable to be on/under/near the surface
of the ground.
IN CONCLUSION - Here is RHF's "Tip" on Ground Wires :
As Short As Possible -and- As Heavy As Practical.
{ Do What You Can Do To Make Both Happen }
.
dxAce
Michael wrote:
Please explain why you think a 'brick chimney' will make an excellent ground.
Burr
"dxAce" <dx...@milestones.com> wrote in message
news:4805B935...@milestones.com...
What in the hell are you talking about?
Burr's Radio Shack - http://tinyurl.com/3wuscn
Red Mountain, California / Bulacan, Philippines
RHF
Michael - Ground Wires : Think Free and Effective !
-IF- You have any 'extra' Coax Cable with Copper Shielding.
{That is Copper and Not Alumminum}
Note - 'extra' means it's Free -ps- Free Is Good :o)
That will fit {cover} the Length {distance} that you need
for a Ground Wire.
Note - Statements apply to Both Ends of the Coax Cable.
Remove the Connectors.
Remove about Two Inches (2") of the Outer Insualtion
from both Ends of the Coax Cable.
Bunch-Back the Outer-Shield to expose the Inner Insualtion
and Center Conductor of the Coax Cable.
Cut-Off the Inner Insulation and Center Conductor at/to the
Point where the Outer-Shield is Bunched-Back.
Put the Outer-Shield Straight and twist it into a Solid Firm
Straight Wire Bundle.
Solder this Wire Bundle.
Attach the Soldered Wire Bundle Ends to your Ground
and Device.
RG-58 is about # 20 AWG is DC Current Handling with
about # 10 AWG is RF Signal Path Bleed potential.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/2619.html
RG-8 is about # 18 AWG is DC Current Handling with
about # 8 AWG is RF Signal Path Bleed potential.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/2247.html
=WHY= The Coax Cable's Outer-Shield is a Hollow Round
Web* of Copper Wires that is : RG58 ~ 1/6" & RG8 ~ 1/4"
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
* Approximating a very thin walled copper tube/pipe.
This Web has a lot of Surface Area for the RF to travel along
-meaning- It is Effective as an RF Ground.
free and effective {keeping it simple and practical} - iane ~ RHF
.
PLUS - That-Some-Thing-Extra :
Here is RHF's "Tip" on Ground Wires :
As Short As Possible -and- As Heavy As Practical.
{ Do What You Can Do To Make Both Happen }
.
-ps- To Know A Lot More -about- Grounds, Grounding,
Grounding-Points and Grounding Wires : Read any and
all of the 81 Plus Messages posted here on that subject
by Me "RHF". GoTo => http://tinyurl.com/5qhv4d
.
Hello Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs) ? Question ?
Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening*
(SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
GoTo => http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
Reference Message Signature-Line => http://tinyurl.com/25zbrg
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/411dac3b4a1798e0
.
* Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
is the Shortwave Antenna =>http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
.
-=25ZBRG=-
SWL-NEWBIE-INFO
.
RHF
* * * Three Star Snip * * *
- Thank you for all the replies.
- My evil plan is this.
- Since I cant get the matching transformer away from
- the house, I will secure it to the house's brick chimney.
- The chimney goes all the way to the concrete foundation
- and should make an excellent ground.
- The ICE 180's housing is metal/ground and it has holes
- to be secured to an external mount.
- I plan to use screws directly into the brick.
- I also plan to use a separate ground wire from the radio
- to a brass ground spike.
- I'll be using 16 gauge wire to do this.
- I think this should be a decent set up.
- I'll have a coax lead going from the matching transformer
- on the chimney into the shack.
- That will be 30 or so feet.
- The receiving wire will be erected on the roof.
- I may just coil 200 feet around the top of the chimney
- to keep it away from the house.
- That would probably be better then running it around
- the outline of the house as far as noise goes.
- Noise is a big issue here in north NJ.
-
- Thanx Again
-
- Mike D.
-
Mike D. - S T O P ! -
Question : Are My Chimney Bricks Grounded ? - NO !
1 - Individual Chimney Bricks Are Not Ground [.]
2 - A Stack of Chimney Bricks is a Stack {Series} of very poor
Electical Resisters making a High Resistance Ground Path.
{Except may be when very wet.}
Matter-of-Fact - The Higher You Go Up A Brick Chimney :
The Less Ground 'Potential' You Have.
2 - Individual Chimney Bricks Are Not Solid and Secure
in and by themselves.
3 - A Bunch of Bricks in a Chimney can be a Solid and Secure
as a "MASS" when effectively Mechanically Bound 'together'
as a Unit.
=PS= Otherwise . . . You may be asking :
Why Did Half My Chimney End-Up On-the-Ground ? :-{
THINK - Ten Foot (10') Chimney Mounting Straps !
http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=5183
1 - Around the Chimney.
2 - Ground Rod at the Base of the Chimney.
3 - Heavy Duty Ground Wire 'connecting' the
Ground Rod to the Chimney Mounting Strap.
CAUTION -IF- You have an old Chimney with any
Eroded Mortar or Loose Bricks then you should
use 24 Inch long Angle Iron {L-Shaped} at the
Four Corners with a Mounting Strap near their
Tops and Bottoms.
PLUS - That-Some-Thing-Extra :
Here is RHF's "Tip" on Ground Wires :
As Short As Possible -and- As Heavy As Practical.
{ Do What You Can Do To Make Both Happen }
.
-ps- To Know A Lot More -about- Grounds, Grounding,
Grounding-Points and Grounding Wires : Read any and
all of the 81 Plus Messages posted here on that subject
by Me "RHF". GoTo => http://tinyurl.com/5qhv4d
now you may proceed - but remember* - iane ~ RHF
{-: Keep It Simple And Practical :-}
Michael
How about, the best thing approximating ground that is available on my roof
???
Michael
dxAce
Michael wrote:
A brick chimney isn't even close to approximating ground.
Michael
It would seem as if this is what I'm going to try. If I keep the balun up
on the roof, the only thing I have up there that approximates a ground is
the chimney. I'll move the f***ing balun down to the 6" brass ground spike
and connect it to the ground spike with a one foot #4 THHN copper cable.
Then I'll run the receiving wire like an inverted L. Now, I'll have to run
about 90 feet of coax from the balun into the receiver.
I would imagine that the receiver itself will be grounded and will not need
its own separate ground connected so long as this antenna is plugged into
it, no ???
Next question. The height of the house is 30 feet and the width is about
the same. The inverted L receiving wire will be 30 feet up and 30 feet
across. What type/gauge wire would be best ???
Thanx Again !!!
Miike D.
Michael
"Burr" <pitz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:UPGdnY3dtcNsIZjV...@earthlink.com...
Wishful thinking ??? I'm trying to avoid having to run coax from the ground
all the way up to the shack. I was hoping to keep the balun on the roof
where it will only be 30 feet of coax into the shack. The chimney is the
closest thing approximating ground on the roof. I'm getting lambasted from
everyone about this, including a few friends here by me. I don't have a
choice but to set the f ***ing balun up near the ground and buy a bunch of
coax. I just didn't want to yield to sound advice at first.
Think the balun (ICE-180) will hold up outside in the weather without being
covered in a weatherproofing goop ???
Thanx for giving it to me straight...
Michael
RHF
> "Drakefan" <Drake...@bluesky.net> wrote in message
- What type/gauge wire would be best ???
-
- Thanx Again !!!
-
- Miike D.
Mike D.,
"FlexWeave" Antenna Wire # 14 AWG @ 100 Feet
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4608.html
READ : Heavy Duty -vice- Quality Antenna Wire
{ Size -v- Durability }
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/03c37ac08d25d318
~ RHF
.
RHF
>
> READ : Heavy Duty -vice- Quality Antenna Wire
> { Size -v- Durability }http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/03c37ac08d25d318
>
> ~ RHF
>
> - Show quoted text -
70 ft Stranded Bare Copper Antenna Wire 14 AWG
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ370042985304
.
Dave
metal support structure which provides a superior earth ground to that
of the coax. The coax should be bonded to the support at the feedpoint,
and should be grounded again where it enters the building. Ideally, the
wire antenna portion is linear on a single plane. "Inverted L"
describes a horizontal antenna with a single wire downlead, which worked
fine 100 years ago, before light dimmers and neon waterbeds.
Dave
>>>
>>
>> Try both ways. I have my MLB grounded to the support mast via the
>> outer conductor of the RG58, about a foot from the near end of the
>> random wire. The mast itself is grounded.
>
> If your balun and coax is up in the air, you don't have an effective RF
> ground to prevent common mode noise on the coax shield. That's why the
> balun needs to be close to the ground so you can use a short ground wire
> between the coax shield and the ground rod. This is how you achieve an
> effective RF ground on the coax shield. It also provides a vertical
> section of the antenna coming down from the horizontal wire. This is
> required for a true inverted-L antenna. The vertical section (wire)
> sometimes picks up a better signal than the horizontal wire of the
> antenna so it's best to have both sections in use. Having the balun near
> the ground allows for this configuration.
While it may seem like a vertical component in the antenna system helps
reception few would be able to get that vertical component long (high)
enough to resonate. What you will do is complicate the phasing, and
therefore the patterns of the whole antenna. If you want to bury stuff,
I suggest something like this may work better than an "inverted L".
http://www.bwantennas.com/ama/veeant.ama.htm
I'm speaking from my own experience, which is confined to big cities and
suburbs. If you live on a farm, you have more options.
The vertical section will likely pick up noise from the mains wiring in
the structure. If you use a good transformer and have a good
independent ground at both ends of the transmission line, you should be
OK. Like I said, try both ways.
Burr
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net>
>
> Think the balun (ICE-180) will hold up outside in the weather without
> being covered in a weatherproofing goop ???
>
> Thanx for giving it to me straight...
>
> Michael
>
Burr
RHF
- Coaxial cable is inherently shielded.
OK - Yeah that is 'why' they call it "Coax".
- That's why you use it.
Yeah.
- I use a metal support structure which provides
- a superior earth ground to that of the coax.
Nice -if- your got one -but- most SWL'ers don't
so the Inverted "L" Antenna . . .
Keeps Things (It) Simple An Practical !
- The coax should be bonded to the support at the feedpoint,
Provided the support is Metal 'structure {Tower} like yours.
Otherwise for most SWL'ers their Inverted "L" Antenna's
Feed-Point is 'co-located' at the Ground Rod near the
Ground -and- Thus they too have their Coax Cable "Bonded"
to the {End} Support {Anchor} at the Feed-Point.
- and should be grounded again where it enters the building.
That would be the preferred way of doing things , , ,
-but- Not Always 'possible' or 'practical'.
- Ideally, the wire antenna portion is linear on a single plane.
For Straight Single Wire Antenna Element that is
Horizontal -or-
Vertical -or-
Sloper
YES.
However a Loop Antenna is circular in a single plane too.
- "Inverted L" describes a horizontal antenna with a single
- wire downlead, which worked fine 100 years ago, before
- light dimmers and neon waterbeds.
Dave - The Inverted "L" Antenna still works pretty good
when it is Constructed Well and Installed Properly.
iane ~ RHF
.
Telamon
dxAce <dx...@milestones.com> wrote:
Well lets see.
1. If you pack earth (mud) together and bake it you get the bricks that
make up the chimney.
2. If you are RHF you have a brick head.
3. If you are Drakefan or DxAce you might as well be talking to a brick
wall.
How did I do?
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
"Burr" <pitz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Might as well.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
Get a dead chicken from the market, put it in a paper bag, stand up on
your roof swinging the dead chicken in the bag around in a circle above
your head and chant RHF, RHF over and over until your reception
improves.
If that does not work try shouting Billy boy while doing the same.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
dxAce <dx...@milestones.com> wrote:
It probably just 20 or 30 feet above ground. Should be close enough
don't you think?
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
m II
>> Please explain why you think a 'brick chimney' will make an excellent ground.
>
> Well lets see.
>
> 1. If you pack earth (mud) together and bake it you get the bricks that
> make up the chimney.
>
> 2. If you are RHF you have a brick head.
>
> 3. If you are Drakefan or DxAce you might as well be talking to a brick
> wall.
>
> How did I do?
Not particularly well, I'm afraid. Poor composition and petty personal
attacks detract from what could have been a fine demonstration of the
term non-sequitur. Our ratings board gives the posting a 3 1/2 out of ten.
mike
Burr
"m II" <c...@in.the.hat> wrote in message news:cDxNj.121$og.91@edtnps91...
Mike, what's a "non-sequitur" and what does it do to the radio???
Burr
Telamon
I thought I made some good connections between what the OP thought was
good idea, the earthen characteristics of RHF, and the utter uselessness
of a concept fostered upon the clueless.
Maybe you could provide a better example.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
I think you need to provide a better example then.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
"Burr" <pitz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "m II" <c...@in.the.hat> wrote in message news:cDxNj.121$og.91@edtnps91...
> > Telamon wrote:
> >
> >>> Please explain why you think a 'brick chimney' will make an excellent
> >>> ground.
> >>
> >> Well lets see.
> >>
> >> 1. If you pack earth (mud) together and bake it you get the bricks that
> >> make up the chimney.
> >>
> >> 2. If you are RHF you have a brick head.
> >>
> >> 3. If you are Drakefan or DxAce you might as well be talking to a brick
> >> wall.
> >>
> >> How did I do?
> >
> >
> > Not particularly well, I'm afraid. Poor composition and petty personal
> > attacks detract from what could have been a fine demonstration of the
> > term non-sequitur. Our ratings board gives the posting a 3 1/2 out of ten.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Mike, what's a "non-sequitur" and what does it do to the radio???
He is saying what I wrote does not follow the thread but it actually
does so what Mike wrote is nonsense. What I wrote is factual.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Michael
"Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-5...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
What about the dead chicken ??? If I get a steroid free chicken from the
Amish market, will it make a better ground then say a Tyson chicken ???
Michael
Telamon
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:telamon_spamshield-5...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
> > In article <cDxNj.121$og.91@edtnps91>, m II <c...@in.the.hat> wrote:
> >
> >> Telamon wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Please explain why you think a 'brick chimney' will make an excellent
> >> >> ground.
> >> >
> >> > Well lets see.
> >> >
> >> > 1. If you pack earth (mud) together and bake it you get the bricks
> >> > that
> >> > make up the chimney.
> >> >
> >> > 2. If you are RHF you have a brick head.
> >> >
> >> > 3. If you are Drakefan or DxAce you might as well be talking to a brick
> >> > wall.
> >> >
> >> > How did I do?
> >>
> >>
> >> Not particularly well, I'm afraid. Poor composition and petty personal
> >> attacks detract from what could have been a fine demonstration of the
> >> term non-sequitur. Our ratings board gives the posting a 3 1/2 out of
> >> ten.
> >>
> >
> > I thought I made some good connections between what the OP thought was
> > good idea, the earthen characteristics of RHF, and the utter uselessness
> > of a concept fostered upon the clueless.
> >
> > Maybe you could provide a better example.
> >
>
> What about the dead chicken ??? If I get a steroid free chicken from the
> Amish market, will it make a better ground then say a Tyson chicken ???
>
Any dead chicken will do as long as it is in bag otherwise you could
have chicken parts all over your roof.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Burr
"Telamon" <
>> Mike, what's a "non-sequitur" and what does it do to the radio???
>
> He is saying what I wrote does not follow the thread but it actually
> does so what Mike wrote is nonsense. What I wrote is factual.
>
> --
> Telamon
> Ventura, California
O
Burr's Radio Shack - http://tinyurl.com/3wuscnRed Mountain, California /
Bulacan, Philippines
cuh...@webtv.net
than that.Dont listen to them other no nothings out there, they dont
know Shit.
cuhulin
Burr
"Michael"
>
> What about the dead chicken ??? If I get a steroid free chicken from the
> Amish market, will it make a better ground then say a Tyson chicken ???
>
> Michael
>
I have found that a Leg of Lamb works best when swung at a 45 degrees to the
ground. Take care "NOT" to hit the roof on the back swing. Also watch out
for the TV antenna on the chimney.
RHF
> "dxAce" <dx...@milestones.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4805B935...@milestones.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Michael wrote:
>
- How about, the best thing approximating ground
- that is available on my roof ???
-
- Michael
Michael,
'possibly' a Metal Vent Pipe coming out of the Roof.
would be a good ground ~ RHF
.
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article <4805dd69$0$25033$607ed...@cv.net>,
>
>
>
>
>
> "Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > "dxAce" <dx...@milestones.com> wrote in message
> >news:4805B935...@milestones.com...
>
> > > Michael wrote:
>
- stand up on your roof swinging the dead chicken in the bag
- around in a circle above your head and chant RHF, RHF over
and over until your reception improves.
- If that does not work try shouting Billy boy while doing the same.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California
-
Teli - Hey - You do have an 'imagination' after all. :o) ~ RHF
.
cuh...@webtv.net
cuhulin
Burr
"RHF"
Michael,
'possibly' a Metal Vent Pipe coming out of the Roof.
would be a good ground ~ RHF
.
Come on Roy, a vent pipe is only 10 inches long.
Nappy time.
See you later.
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article <4805B935.AE4ED...@milestones.com>,> > > "Drakefan" <Drake...@bluesky.net> wrote in message
-
- 1. If you pack earth (mud) together and bake it
- you get the bricks that make up the chimney.
-
- 2. If you are RHF you have a brick head.
-
- 3. If you are Drakefan or DxAce you might as well
- be talking to a brick wall.
-
- How did I do?
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California
-
Telamon Asks : How Did I Do ?
Teli You DooDoo Very Well ! ~ RHF
http://www.perfect-shit.com/shit-bg.jpg
Teli - I am sure that Drakefan and DX Ace appreciate
the fact that you 'care' to give-it-your-very-best . . .
http://www.torrentsmd.com/imagestorage/283489_cc6.jpg
i know that i do ~ RHF
.
RHF
> "m II" <c...@in.the.hat> wrote in messagenews:cDxNj.121$og.91@edtnps91...
> > Telamon wrote:
>
> >>> Please explain why you think a 'brick chimney' will make an excellent
> >>> ground.
>
> >> Well lets see.
>
> >> 1. If you pack earth (mud) together and bake it you get the bricks that
> >> make up the chimney.
>
> >> 2. If you are RHF you have a brick head.
>
> >> 3. If you are Drakefan or DxAce you might as well be talking to a brick
> >> wall.
>
> >> How did I do?
>
> > Not particularly well, I'm afraid. Poor composition and petty personal
> > attacks detract from what could have been a fine demonstration of the
> > term non-sequitur. Our ratings board gives the posting a 3 1/2 out of ten.
>
> > mike
>
-
- Burr
-
Burr,
"Non-Sequitur" is 'sort of' the Logical Equivalent of a
Quadrature Rejection circuit in a Radio {Electronics}.
~ RHF
.
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article <MYednXkFeL46LJvVnZ2dnUVZ_oWdn...@earthlink.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> "Burr" <pitzra...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > "m II" <c...@in.the.hat> wrote in messagenews:cDxNj.121$og.91@edtnps91...
> > > Telamon wrote:
>
> > >>> Please explain why you think a 'brick chimney' will make an excellent
> > >>> ground.
>
> > >> Well lets see.
>
> > >> 1. If you pack earth (mud) together and bake it you get the bricks that
> > >> make up the chimney.
>
> > >> 2. If you are RHF you have a brick head.
>
> > >> 3. If you are Drakefan or DxAce you might as well be talking to a brick
> > >> wall.
>
> > >> How did I do?
>
> > > Not particularly well, I'm afraid. Poor composition and petty personal
> > > attacks detract from what could have been a fine demonstration of the
> > > term non-sequitur. Our ratings board gives the posting a 3 1/2 out of ten.
>
> > Mike, what's a "non-sequitur" and what does it do to the radio???
- He is saying what I wrote does not follow the thread
- but it actually does so what Mike wrote is nonsense.
- What I wrote is factual.
Telamon Bad Smelling Spelling 'factual' was clearly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence
miss-spelled everyone knows that you meant to
write "Flatulent" ;-}
teli - reading your replies is such a 'gas' ~ RHF
.
> --
> Telamon
> Ventura, California
>
RHF
> "RHF"
> Michael,
>
> 'possibly' a Metal Vent Pipe coming out of the Roof.
>
> would be a good ground ~ RHF
> .
>
> Come on Roy, a vent pipe is only 10 inches long.
>
> Nappy time.
>
> See you later.
>
>
> Red Mountain, California / Bulacan, Philippines
Burr,
Many old Houses used to have a Metal Vent Pipe
that was 'connected to the Sinks, Baths and Tolets
Sewer Waste Water Line often these Vents were
a better Ground then the House's Cold Water Pipes.
But now this PVC Piping you are right the short piece
of Metal Pipe coming out of the Roof may be the only
Metal Pipe in the House's Piping system.
~ RHF
.
cuh...@webtv.net
Move over doggy, time for me to cut the light and get my beauty sleep.I
am going to let the 40s on 4 Radio tb music channel lullaby me to sleep.
cuhulin
msg
> Best antenna is to stick a wire on your gal friend's arse.
> cuhulin
>
Asked before, but never got answer: why does an American
use the term 'arse'?
Michael
Burr
"RHF"
>
- Mike, what's a "non-sequitur" and what does it do to the radio???
-
- Burr
-
Burr,
"Non-Sequitur" is 'sort of' the Logical Equivalent of a
Quadrature Rejection circuit in a Radio {Electronics}.
~ RHF
O, no problem, I got it!
WOW
Burr .
Burr
"msg" <msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote in message
news:CP2dnalBmvm9QZvVnZ2dnUVZ_vPinZ2d@cpinternet...
Burr
XPfan
> "dxAce" <dx...@milestones.com> wrote in message
> news:4805B935...@milestones.com...
>
>>
>>Michael wrote:
>>
>>
>>ground.
>
>
> ???
>
>
>
Bricks are basically a ceramic material. Guess what the power companies
use for insulators on their poles? That's right, ceramic insulators. One
insulator a few inches tall can prevent thousands of volts from leaking
to the ground from the wire. That should give you some idea of how far
from electrical ground the top of the chimney really is. In fact the
electrical resistance of a brick is so high it's almost impossible to
measure it with normal test equipment. Here's an example:
RHF
> "Telamon" <telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:telamon_spamshield-5...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <cDxNj.121$og.91@edtnps91>, m II <c...@in.the.hat> wrote:
>
> >> Telamon wrote:
>
> >> >> Please explain why you think a 'brick chimney' will make an excellent
> >> >> ground.
>
> >> > Well lets see.
>
> >> > 1. If you pack earth (mud) together and bake it you get the bricks
> >> > that
> >> > make up the chimney.
>
> >> > 2. If you are RHF you have a brick head.
>
> >> > 3. If you are Drakefan or DxAce you might as well be talking to a brick
> >> > wall.
>
> >> > How did I do?
>
> >> Not particularly well, I'm afraid. Poor composition and petty personal
> >> attacks detract from what could have been a fine demonstration of the
> >> term non-sequitur. Our ratings board gives the posting a 3 1/2 out of
> >> ten.
>
> > I thought I made some good connections between what the OP thought was
> > good idea, the earthen characteristics of RHF, and the utter uselessness
> > of a concept fostered upon the clueless.
>
> > Maybe you could provide a better example.
>
> > --
> > Telamon
>
-
- If I get a steroid free chicken from the Amish market,
- will it make a better ground then say a Tyson chicken ???
-
- Michael
-
Michael - No - Actually the opposite is true.
The Tyson Chicken is so feed with additives
and Injected with with all kinds of thingees :
That It's Electrical Properties have be Enhanced.
Think of It as a Ground Rod on Steroids - Oops It Is ! ;-} ~ RHF
.
m II
> Asked before, but never got answer: why does an American
> use the term 'arse'?
Because her husband answers to it?
mike
cuh...@webtv.net
cuhulin
Michael
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:48041156$0$11599$607e...@cv.net...
> Hiya...
Hiya...
Got the 6' solid brass ground rod and 24' ground strap today from ICE. We
have clear weather forecast here for Saturday, so I plan to pound it into
the ground. I'll mount the balun to the foundation low to the ground and
connect the ground strap. I ordered 100' spool of antenna wire and a 100'
length of coax. If they arrive in the next day, I'll be able to put it up
Saturday along with the balun and ground spike. Then I can test it out
Saturday night. If I don't get the antenna wire and other goodies by the
weekend, it will have to wait another week for completion and testing. I'm
glad I also have the 102' G5RV to test it against. That antenna is
currently laying on my roof in the shape of a sigma. I plan to leave it as
is.
I'd say the 6' brass rod into the earth is a better ground then the brick
chimney, but I don't think it will out perform the whole uncooked chicken.
I'm still not sure if I should also ground the radio in the shack. The
radio is on the second floor in the house, so any ground wire would have to
be about 75' long to reach the spike, unless I just ground it to the iron
radiator... or a chicken. I use a six receiver, six radio MFJ- 1700C switch
to go between antennas and my two radios. The new properly grounded
inverted L will always be hooked up to the switch along with both my radios
and all antennas. Given that one antenna is well grounded and all items are
hooked up to the same switch via shielded PL-259, will the other radios and
antennas benefit from that one single grounded antenna ???
Forgive me for being a total retard here... My first ever antenna was a roll
of aluminum foil and an alligator clip :-) I'm making some progress...
Mike D
Telamon
> "Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:telamon_spamshield-5...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
> > In article <cDxNj.121$og.91@edtnps91>, m II <c...@in.the.hat> wrote:
> >
> >> Telamon wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Please explain why you think a 'brick chimney' will make an
> >> >> excellent ground.
> >> >
> >> > Well lets see.
> >> >
> >> > 1. If you pack earth (mud) together and bake it you get the
> >> > bricks that make up the chimney.
> >> >
> >> > 2. If you are RHF you have a brick head.
> >> >
> >> > 3. If you are Drakefan or DxAce you might as well be talking to
> >> > a brick wall.
> >> >
> >> > How did I do?
> >>
> >>
> >> Not particularly well, I'm afraid. Poor composition and petty
> >> personal attacks detract from what could have been a fine
> >> demonstration of the term non-sequitur. Our ratings board gives
> >> the posting a 3 1/2 out of ten.
> >>
> >
> > I thought I made some good connections between what the OP thought
> > was good idea, the earthen characteristics of RHF, and the utter
> > uselessness of a concept fostered upon the clueless.
> >
> > Maybe you could provide a better example.
> >
>
> What about the dead chicken ??? If I get a steroid free chicken from
> the Amish market, will it make a better ground then say a Tyson
> chicken ???
>
It does not matter what type of chicken you use. Open the bag and look
at the dead chicken. That chicken has about as much a chance of being
reanimated as your chimney has of being a good ground. Then give the
dead chicken to MII for lunch.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Bob Miller
wrote:
>
>"Burr" <pitz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:UPGdnY3dtcNsIZjV...@earthlink.com...
>>> Please explain why you think a 'brick chimney' will make an excellent
>>> ground.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What in the hell are you talking about?
>
>Wishful thinking ??? I'm trying to avoid having to run coax from the ground
>all the way up to the shack. I was hoping to keep the balun on the roof
>where it will only be 30 feet of coax into the shack. The chimney is the
>closest thing approximating ground on the roof. I'm getting lambasted from
>everyone about this, including a few friends here by me. I don't have a
>choice but to set the f ***ing balun up near the ground and buy a bunch of
>coax. I just didn't want to yield to sound advice at first.
>
>Think the balun (ICE-180) will hold up outside in the weather without being
>covered in a weatherproofing goop ???
>
>Thanx for giving it to me straight...
>
>Michael
>
Last time I checked, metal conducted electricity best. "Brick" is
sorta like the material used for insulators.
Run a heavy piece of aluminum or copper wire from the roof to the
ground... not ideal, but better than brick... they sell grounding wire
at Lowes and Home Depot...
bob
k5qwg
m II
> It does not matter what type of chicken you use. Open the bag and look
> at the dead chicken. That chicken has about as much a chance of being
> reanimated as your chimney has of being a good ground. Then give the
> dead chicken to MII for lunch.
>
Grow up.
mike
cuh...@webtv.net
I know there are at least two cast iron vent pipes leading up and out of
the roof on the back side of my old (Cape Cod) style house.Only one
bathroom (yes, my old house really does have inside plumbing) and one
kitchen and them other old rooms in my one story old house.
cuhulin
m II
The important thing is that they can carry you out easily when the booze
finally does you in. Perhaps you should clear a path beforehand....
mike
cuh...@webtv.net
Ohhhh, carry me awayyyyy,,,,, up my toilet flue pipeeee,,,,,
Look up recent news about that crematariun place here in
Jacksoooonnn,Mee see see pee pee eye.
cuhulin
Telamon
Have a nice lunch.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Dave
Michael
"Dave" <nos...@biteme.com> wrote in message
news:O_idnSDwS-K3BpXV...@earthlink.com...
To what ??? Given that the switch will already be connected to the PL-259
connection of the well grounded sloping L antenna's shielded coax, hooking
up another wire to the switch from the outside ground rod will be redundant,
no ??? The best I can do is put a ground strap from the switch to an iron
radiator in the shack.
Think that will be any help ???
Michael
Dave
either pass through your radios or find another path to ground. A
radiator is usually a very nice ground.
Michael
Will do. Thanx :-)
Michael
RHF
Michael,
In the location where you plan on sticking your Ground Rod :
Take the time today to dig down about a Foot Deep and a
Foot around {Hole} and Fill the Hole with Water Today, Friday
and Saturday {Soak the Ground}. Pounding the Ground Rod
into the Soil should be a little easier. Stop pounding the Rod
into the Soil when you have about 6"~8" above the normal
Soil level left to do. Fill the Whole with Soil and Tamp and
the Soil Down {Walk-On-It}. Pound the Rod a little further
into the ground and leave about 2"~4" of it above the Soil
Level.
READ - Make Your Own 'Special' Ground Rod Soil Mixture
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/65b69b219da2de33
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/6c549154294a4d9b
hope this helps - iane ~ RHF
.
Michael
"RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:2dfb2ae1-4fbb-4d68...@l25g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Michael,
Thank you. I was just wondering how much of the rod to leave above the
ground. I read a few articles that say no more then 4" is idea. Is it OK if
the clam that holds the strap on the rod is above the burry line ??? I want
to be able to see that is still attached every now and then :-)
Michael
cuh...@webtv.net
are? eight foot long ground steel rods at the Goodwill store, dirt
cheep.Last year, I gave one of my auld buddies five of them, for
free.((Ronnie, you never know when you might need to hacksaw off a piece
of rod for something)) He told me,,, you dont need to use a big
hammer,,, just hold it between your fingers and bump it up and down in
the dirt.
cuhulin
Bob Miller
wrote:
If you have more than one ground rod, connect them with a heavy wire
to avoid having an electrical potential that might attract lightning.
bob
k5qwg
msg
You might have soft soils, but in my area the clay is thick, deep and
often hard as rock.
Michael
cuh...@webtv.net
cuhulin
Telamon
<2dfb2ae1-4fbb-4d68...@l25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
It didn't help. Have paid any attention to where he lives, the soil
condition or the water table level. I'll answer that for you, NO.
He might as well bury the dead chicken in that hole for all the good it
will do him. Your hole prep will not help him dig through the clay under
the few inched of topsoil.
Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for
an antenna anyway.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
> "RHF" <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
- I was just wondering how much of the rod to leave
- above the ground. I read a few articles that say no
- more then 4" is idea.
Four Inches (4") is Good
- Is it OK if the clam that holds the strap on the rod
- is above the burry line ??? I want to be able to see
- that is still attached every now and then :-)
-
- Michael
-
That is the usually way it is done. ~ RHF
.
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <2dfb2ae1-4fbb-4d68-9de4-05b7244f4...@l25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Telamon ? All Things Dead Chickens ?
Is that your latest area of competency ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHXXZwfGrP4
you do want you can with what you got ~ RHF
.
Telamon
<ed434b17-eb49-4485...@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
That's usually not enough for most women so don't invite any of them
over to listen to the radio. They will just be disappointed.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
<7ea75646-6e8f-48af...@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
< SNIP >
> Telamon ? All Things Dead Chickens ?
>
> Is that your latest area of competency ?
Your advice is as helpful as a dead chicken.
< SNIP >
> you do want you can with what you got ~ RHF
You got nothing.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Michael
"Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
> Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for
> an antenna anyway.
What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry.
Michael
Telamon
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire.
Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to
operate.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Michael
"Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second
antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after
being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off
of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something
that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a
new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks
total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot
ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great
conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here.
BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't
so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above
10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4
megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm
sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up
on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a
ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar.
Don't ask me how, but it worked.
Michael
cuh...@webtv.net
The dead chickens wont help, cook them and eat them.
cuhulin
Telamon
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:telamon_spamshield-2...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
> > In article <48090d78$0$15164$607e...@cv.net>,
> > "Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:telamon_spamshield-0...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net.
> >> ..
> >>
> >> > Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst
> >> > choice for an antenna anyway.
> >>
> >> What antenna would you recommend ??? Besides dead poultry.
People that meet RHF have a tendency to slap him over the head with a
dead chicken in case you were wondering where that came from.
> > Anything not a common mode antenna such as a random/long wire.
> >
> > Make a dipole or a loop antenna. Those antennas don't need a ground to
> > operate.
> >
>
> I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second
> antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after
> being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off
> of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something
> that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a
> new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks
> total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot
> ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great
> conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here.
You should get a good ground with a 6 foot rod. I was commenting on the
retard from the San Francisco area spouting advise about the rod for
different soil conditions than what you have. Chances are for you the
water table is about 2 or 3 feet below ground. Chances are you have 4 to
6 inches of top soil then several feet of clay.
You were complaining about area noise before this and a common mode
antenna would be the worst way to go if you are surrounded by neighbors
with noise makers.
> BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't
> so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above
> 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4
> megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm
> sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up
> on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a
> ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar.
> Don't ask me how, but it worked.
Any time you have a wire in the air of an electrically significant
length then you do not have a ground wire. What you have is a counter
poise and its electrical length will sum with the characteristics of the
Random/Long-wire that is the other part of the antenna. The length is
the important consideration not the diameter.
You have made the investment so go and install the inverted L. Keep it
as far from your house and the neighbors as you possibly can. If you
like the performance, and the coax is traveling across the ground to get
to your house, you can bury it in a trench. You could protect the coax
in the ground with PVC pipe or buy the type of coax that is designed to
be put in the ground.
There is no point in running another ground wire from your radio to the
antenna ground point. The coax shield is that connection.
You would want a separate ground for the antenna ground at the ICE BALUN
because the ground at the radio is from the mains and is contaminated
with electrical noise from other devices.
The ICE BALUN is really an UNUN in this case. Unbalanced antenna to
Unbalanced transmission line.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
> www.devilfinder.com How to build a loop antenna for shortwave radio
>
> The dead chickens wont help, cook them and eat them.
Since you are puttering around in the backyard putting up an antenna you
might as well have a barbecue.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Michael
"Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
For the inverted L, what tap on the the ICE-180 should I use ??? 300, 450,
600 or 800
Michael
Michael
"Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
You know... That is probably why my ill conceived long wire was so noisy.
It got a lot of signal, but a lot of noise too. I'm betting the the Inverted
L with it's own ground will now be pretty decent as far as noise goes. As
for the radio, I'm going to ground it in the shack to a radiator. Or, i can
forgoe that and ground the antenna/receiver switch to the radiator instead.
Michael
dxAce
Michael wrote:
Off the top of my pointed head, if you'd want to convert the wire to 50 Ohms I'd go
with the 450 Ohm tap.
However, not knowing the true design of the ICE-180, it may be to your benefit to
experiment with the other taps.
In fact, with most any particular design, whether it be an antenna or a matching
transformer/balun, it always pays to experiment, because your particular
location/circumstances might be different from that of others.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
>
>
> Michael
Telamon
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
I would expect the lowest value to work the best. You could easily
experiment with this setting. In addition I would try a direct
connection to the coax. If that works the best then I would make a 1:1
toroid transformer for it. Here the antenna and ground would be
connected to one winding and the coax to the other winding with no
direct connection between the two windings.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
That's the theory.
> As for the radio, I'm going to ground it in the shack to a radiator.
> Or, i can forgoe that and ground the antenna/receiver switch to the
> radiator instead.
The bast you can do for the radio if you have modern 3 wire outlets is
to get a filtered power conditioning strip to plug the radio into.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Michael
"Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
Can you send me a link to such a stip ???
> Telamon
> Ventura, California
Telamon
"Michael" <md1...@optonline.net> wrote:
This is what I use.
<http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=99>
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Dave
>
> hope this helps - iane ~ RHF
I would think step 1 should be to make sure you're not pounding a steel
rod through a sewer pipe or into your 240V power line.
Dave
>
> Where he lives a common mode antenna is most likely the worst choice for
> an antenna anyway.
>
http://www.pa0sim.nl/Antenna%20common%20mode%20impedance.htm
Dave
>
> I already have a di-pole. A 102' G5RV on my roof. I'm building a second
> antenna because my current 150' long wire has fallen apart on the roof after
> being up there for three years. I have an ICE-180 balun that I can take off
> of that mess, so I figured I'd use that in the construction of something
> that can make use of it, like an inverted L. So far I just spent money on a
> new 6' ground rod and a 20 buck spool of antenna wire. Under 50 bucks
> total. Why the hell wont I get an effective ground here with a six foot
> ground rod ??? I always thought the ground here in this area had great
> conductivity. That is why there are so many MW transmitters here.
>
> BTW... My G5RV works very well from 5 megahertz to 10 megahertz. Is isn't
> so good below of above that. My 150' long wire was great for anything above
> 10 megahertz. Unbelievably, it was also very good for 3 megahertz to 4
> megahertz. I have no idea why. The way I had that one grounded was, I'm
> sure, a poor way to do it. I have a 12 gauge wire going from the radio, up
> on the roof to the ICE-180 balun's ground, and then back down the house to a
> ground rod in the earth. The current ground rod is only 3' long iron bar.
> Don't ask me how, but it worked.
>
> Michael
>
>
How about a Soviet active?
;-)
Michael
Oh... No problem.... I don't have a steel rod. I'll be pounding a brass rod
through utility conduits.
Michael
dxAce
Michael wrote:
In that case make certain that you wear heavy rubber gloves :-)
RHF
-
- http://www.naval.com/vpa.htm
-
- ;-)
-
Says/Looks to be Designed for Shipboard Use :
Covers AM : LW + MW + SW : 100 kHz ~ 30 MHz
Plus FM : VHF/UHF : 68 MHz ~ 110 MHz
Active MF-HF-FM Receiving Antenna VPA 30
-by- Naval Electronics, Inc. -USA-
http://www.naval.com/vpa.htm
33.5" Vertical Antenna Element by 3/8" Diameter
41.3" Long/Tall
3.3" Base Diameter
15 VDC @ 125 mA
? VPA :
Vertical Polarization Antenna ?
Voltage Probe Antenna ?
.
RHF
- I would think step 1 should be to make sure
- you're not pounding a steel rod through a
- sewer pipe or into your 240V power line.
Dave - That would be very True. ~ RHF
.