Grounding Using Cold Water Faucet
Count Floyd
the cold water faucet in the back yard, it has an old-fashioned strap
with a screw on the top that I put the ground wire in and tighten it
down. Is this any good, or would something else be better?
Thanks,
Bob
--
dxAce
Count Floyd wrote:
I recall something in the past about using water piping as a ground. Perhaps it
had something to do with electrolysis and the buildup of deposits of minerals in
the piping making that not such a good idea.
Perhaps someone else might chime in on this.
Personally, I use seperate 8' ground rods here.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
Telamon
dxAce <dx...@milestones.com> wrote:
Good advice Ace. Ground rods are fine wherever you have decent
conductivity.
However, if you live in a place where the ground conductivity is poor
forget about the ground rods and use radials instead. Even one radial
under the Random/Long wire will work better then a ground rod in poor
soil.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
David Eduardo
> In article <48092042...@milestones.com>,
> dxAce <dx...@milestones.com> wrote:
>
>> Count Floyd wrote:
>>
>> > I have heard a lot about grounding and using baluns, but I am using
>> > the cold water faucet in the back yard, it has an old-fashioned strap
>> > with a screw on the top that I put the ground wire in and tighten it
>> > down. Is this any good, or would something else be better?
>>
>> I recall something in the past about using water piping as a ground.
>> Perhaps it had something to do with electrolysis and the buildup of
>> deposits of minerals in the piping making that not such a good idea.
>>
>> Perhaps someone else might chime in on this.
>>
>> Personally, I use seperate 8' ground rods here.
>
There are actually several reasons for not using a cold water pipe.
1. It may appear to be iron pipe, but underground or in your foundation or
walls, it may convert to a run of PVC or other material.
2. If all iron pipe is present, washers, corroded fittings or pipe sealing
materials may make the ground a poor one or create a ground loop with the
electrical ground of the receiver.
3. In many cases, the "ground" is actually via the mineral content of the
water, not the pipe. In some areas, this is a lousy ground unless you are
running salt water through the pipes.
4. As Telemon suggests, a system of radials is best (that is why AM stations
use them, too).
5. It is a good idea to check if there is a ground loop or difference of
potential between your "real" ground made of rods or radials and the
electrical ground the neutral on the power plug connects to. A difference of
potential can manifest itself in many ways, including damaging the receiver,
hum and noise, etc.
dxAce
David Eduardo wrote:
Never trust 'advice' from 'Eduardo'.
Dave
to the street is a good ground; but if the feed is PVC, not a good ground.
RHF
<CountFl...@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater.com> wrote:
-
- I have heard a lot about grounding and using baluns,
- but I am using the cold water faucet in the back yard,
- it has an old-fashioned strap with a screw on the top
- that I put the ground wire in and tighten it down.
-
- Is this any good, or would something else be better?
- Thanks,
- Bob
- --
CF/Bob - Most of the Time Answer would be "NO" ~ RHF
1 - Outside Cold Water Faucets are generally poor
Grounding Points and NOT recommended.
2 - Pipes coming out of the Ground at ground level
are Better Grounding Points closest to the Ground.
3 - Pipes Buried-in-the-Ground are usually the BEST
Grounding Points. One Solid Piece of Metal 1/2"
Water Pipe Eight Feet or longer sometimes up to
21 Feet; with an OD of 0.840" : This is as effective
as a Standard Eight Foot Ground Rod : But usually
more work then simply Pounding a Ground Rod
into the Ground.
The Problem with Pipes is There "Joints" :
The Pipe goes down for One to Three Feet and will
have a Elbo or a "T" Connector with two Treaded
Joints 'if' Iron Pipe -or- Soldered 'if' Copper Pipe.
So -if- You are serious about having your Grounding
Point for your Antenna and Radio Shack at that Metal
Pipe : You have to start Digging.
Carefully Dig Down to the Horizontal Feeder Metal Pipe
that is Buried 1'~3' in the Ground.
Clean-Off a few Inches {Bright Metal} of this Buried Pipe.
Put a Brass Ground Clamp on the Buried Pipe.
Attach at least a #10 AWG Copper Wire for your Ground Wire.
-OR- Install a 5/8 Inch by 8 Foot Copper-Clad Steel Ground Rod.
Which Is Usually Less Work.
Read - SWL -Newbies- Using a Cold Water Service Pipe
For A Grounding Point
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/27834fc68e65c69c
Read - READ : SWL -Newbies- The Ground Rod is First
and Formost for Electrical Safety and it can also
Help to Improve your Radio Reception.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3fc23d487859bed8
start by building your radio shack from the ground up
and be well grounded - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
.
Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening*
(SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
GoTo => http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
RHF's Standard "Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) Antennas Group"
Reference Message Signature-Line => http://tinyurl.com/25zbrg
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/411dac3b4a1798e0
.
* Remember 55.5% of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
is the Shortwave Antenna =>http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
.
RHF's Radio Shack in Twain Harte, California -USA-
SHACK INFO =>http://tinyurl.com/2skmxm
Shortwave Radio / Receiver and SWL Antenna Info
.
-=2SKMXM=-
-=25ZBRG=-
SWR3:SWL:INFO
.
Telamon
<27008139-0dad-475a...@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> On Apr 18, 3:16 pm, "Count Floyd"
> <CountFl...@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater.com> wrote:
> -
> - I have heard a lot about grounding and using baluns,
> - but I am using the cold water faucet in the back yard,
> - it has an old-fashioned strap with a screw on the top
> - that I put the ground wire in and tighten it down.
> -
> - Is this any good, or would something else be better?
> - Thanks,
> - Bob
> - --
>
> CF/Bob - Most of the Time Answer would be "NO" ~ RHF
< SNIP >
Whatever you do don't take technical advice from the news group retard
RHF.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
<telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <27008139-0dad-475a-9493-55ab2ada8...@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
>
> RHF <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > On Apr 18, 3:16 pm, "Count Floyd"
> > <CountFl...@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater.com> wrote:
> > -
> > - I have heard a lot about grounding and using baluns,
> > - but I am using the cold water faucet in the back yard,
> > - it has an old-fashioned strap with a screw on the top
> > - that I put the ground wire in and tighten it down.
> > -
> > - Is this any good, or would something else be better?
> > - Thanks,
> > - Bob
> > - --
>
> > CF/Bob - Most of the Time Answer would be "NO" ~ RHF
>
> < SNIP >
- Whatever you do don't take technical advice
- from the news group retard RHF.
-
- --
- Telamon - The Chief Resident-in-Charge of Alt.Idiots
- Ventura, California
-
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Followup-To: alt.idiots
From: Telamon <telamon_spamshi...@pacbell.net.is.invalid>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:17:37 -0700
Local: Sat, Apr 19 2008 2:17 pm
PONG : Telamon I See That You Are Once Again
The Self-Proclaimed Chief Resident-in-Charge of Alt.Idiots.
.
Telamon
<a830ec87-8b56-4208...@1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
I see you still don't have an answer retard. I suggest you stay out of
threads you don't understand.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
"David Eduardo" <da...@davideduardo.com> wrote:
> "Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:telamon_spamshield-D...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
> >> The Self-Proclaimed Chief Resident-in-Charge of Alt.Idiots.
> >
> > I see you still don't have an answer retard. I suggest you stay out of
> > threads you don't understand.
> >
>
> It's funny that all the self-proclaimed experts, starting with you, have not
> suggested checking for a difference in potential of the electrical ground of
> the AC socket the receiver is plugged into and any earth ground that the
> dxer may create.
You got to stop posting over in alt.local.village.idiot
Maybe since I have always lived in modern construction regulated housing
that the thought of the power wiring in the house being screwed up was
not my first thought.
If you have those kind of problems I'm sure RHF will be right over to
help you out. He is an expert on hammering ground rods. Be sure to hold
your thumb over the top of the rod for him.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
* * * Three Star Snip * * *
d'Eduardo -wrote-
- There are actually several reasons for not using a cold water pipe.
- 1. It may appear to be iron pipe, but underground or in
- your foundation or walls, it may convert to a run of PVC
- or other material.
Yes - That is true.
- 2. If all iron pipe is present, washers, corroded fittings
- or pipe sealing materials may make the ground a poor
- one or create a ground loop with the electrical ground
- of the receiver.
Again - That is true.
- 3. In many cases, the "ground" is actually via the mineral
content of the water, not the pipe. In some areas, this is a
lousy ground unless you are running salt water through the
pipes.
Actually the Ground 'connectivity' is the Mineralized Deposits
encrusted within an 'old' cold Water Pipe that give it it's
poor but uniform Conductivity along with the Water in the Pipe.
-Thus- The Cold Water Pipe makes for a 'fair' Electrical Ground
and RF Continuous Drain Grounding Point for the SWL's Radio
Shack and Antennas.
So getting to that Pipe at the point where it is just coming
out of the Ground is the prefered -and- Getting down to the
Main Water Feeder Pipe a few feet under-ground is better.
- 4. As Telemon suggests, a system of radials is best
- (that is why AM stations use them, too).
For Transmitting Yes -but- Most Shortwave Radio Listeners
(SWLs) do not need Radials to have an effective Receive
"Only" Antenna. The SWL simply needs a :
* Good RF Signal Collector {Wire Antenna Element}.
- = Radio / Receiver Connected between the two. = -
* Fair RF Ground Return Path {Ground Rod}.
- 5. It is a good idea to check if there is a ground loop
- or difference of potential between your "real" ground
- made of rods or radials and the electrical ground the
- neutral on the power plug connects to.
Technically and Legally they are required to be BONDED
{Electrically and Mechanically Connected Together}.
- A difference of potential can manifest itself in many ways,
- including damaging the receiver, hum and noise, etc.
Yes that is correct -including- Electical Shock, Fire,
Loss of Home, Personal Injury and Loss of Life.
That is "Why" the Ground Rod is First and Formost for
Electrical Safety [.]
Again - Technically & Legally they are required to be BONDED
{Electrically and Mechanically Connected Together}.
More Reading for the Newbie Shortwave Radio Listner (SWL) :
SWL -Newbies- The Ground Rod is First and Formost for
Electrical Safety and it can also Help to Improve your
Radio Reception.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3fc23d487859bed8
SWL -Newbies- Using a Cold Water Service Pipe For Grounding Point
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/27834fc68e65c69c
SWL -Newbies- Outside Cold Water Faucets Are Generally
Poor Grounding Points and NOT Recommended.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/306562c4b598e6c8
RHF's "Tip" on Ground Wires
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/1d01254b4099fb75
Question : Are My Chimney Bricks Grounded ? - NO !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/354497141535c839
Ground Wires : Think Free and Effective !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/345690ebd538e2f3
SWL -Newbies- Doing-the-Doable : The Wire Antenna
+ Ground Rod + Matching Transfromer + Coax Cable
feed-in-line {Counterpoise} -versus- Many Ground Radials
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/d9b7432d486275cd
BDK
@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, rhf-new...@pacbell.net says...
I did the waterpipe deal long ago once, but everytime I touched my PS
while keying the mike, or the radio and the PS at the same time, the
"bite" I got was pretty unpleasant. I finally sunk two 10' ground rods,
and have had no problem since.
BDK
Drakefan
If the "cold water faucet in the backyard" is actually attached to the
house, it will most likely not be directly grounded to the earth.
Somewhere in the house there is a ground wire connecting the cold water
plumbing to the electrical system ground, which is usually an outside
ground rod. In that case the outside faucet is not a good RF ground. You
would do better to build a ground system for your radio like the kind
being discussed here in the other thread on this topic.
RHF
> Count Floyd wrote:
> > I have heard a lot about grounding and using baluns, but I am using
> > the cold water faucet in the back yard, it has an old-fashioned strap
> > with a screw on the top that I put the ground wire in and tighten it
> > down. Is this any good, or would something else be better?
> > Thanks,
> > Bob
- If the "cold water faucet in the backyard" is actually
- attached to the house, it will most likely not be directly
- grounded to the earth.
- Somewhere in the house there is a ground wire connecting
- the cold water plumbing to the electrical system ground,
- which is usually an outside ground rod.
- In that case the outside faucet is not a good RF ground.
- You would do better to build a ground system for your
- radio like the kind being discussed here in the other
- thread on this topic.
-
Building a Solid Copper Ground Pipe {Tube} with an Solid Iron Core.
- Also - Water Drilling a Solid Copper Pipe for a Ground Rod.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3b60795205262938
Transforming your simple Ground Rod into a Ground Anchor :
Is It Worth The Work ? - You Decide !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/0f31a1a89aa89026
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/65b69b219da2de33
.
RHF
> In article <88147f55-b26a-464a-837f-e51aefefc422
- I did the waterpipe deal long ago once, but everytime I
- touched my PS while keying the mike, or the radio and
- the PS at the same time, the "bite" I got was pretty
- unpleasant.
-
- I finally sunk two 10' ground rods, and have had no problem since.
-
- BDK
-
BDK,
Yes your Experience has Taught you the First Principle of
Radio Shack Grounding "Make The Radio Shack Safe" [.]
SWL -Newbies- The Ground Rod is First and Formost for
Electrical Safety -and- Yes It can also Help to Improve your
Radio Reception.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3fc23d487859bed8
Building a Solid Copper Ground Pipe {Tube} with an Solid Iron Core.
- Also - Water Drilling a Solid Copper Pipe for a Ground Rod.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3b60795205262938
Transforming your simple Ground Rod into a Ground Anchor :
Is It Worth The Work ? - You Decide !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/0f31a1a89aa89026
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/65b69b219da2de33
Read the 103 Messages Posted here on Rec.Radio.Shortwave
by Jack Painter concerning the Topic of "Grounding".
JACK PAINTER - http://tinyurl.com/4b5me8
GETTING WELL GROUNDED - http://tinyurl.com/4b5me8
ON THE SUBJECT OF GROUNDS - http://tinyurl.com/4b5me8
AND RADIO SHACK GROUNDING - http://tinyurl.com/4b5me8
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/search?group=rec.radio.shortwave&q=Jack+Painter+Ground
.
Dave
> - 5. It is a good idea to check if there is a ground loop
> - or difference of potential between your "real" ground
> - made of rods or radials and the electrical ground the
> - neutral on the power plug connects to.
If you are confident that your antenna system ground is solid, use a
ground lift for your receiver bench. If you want to get anal (down
'dwardo!) you can run a green wire from the ground lift to the
aforementioned selector switch metal frame.
Telamon
<7fbd075c-6754-4657...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
You will never get it. Just give up the thought that you will ever
understand what the hell you are posting about.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California