Outside Antenna

[Rikk]

Hi
I am wondering if I have my longwire set correctly, maybe you could advise
please.
At the moment I have a sloping long-wire of about 50 foot, going from the
top of a mast on my house about 35 foot tall to the top of a washing line
post about 12 foot tall. I have connected the lonwire to my radio by means
of CB-coax, what I have done is to attach the centre core of the coax to the
longwire and I have cut the outer sheath on the coax near to the ground and
connected an earhtwire that is soldered to a cold water main supply pipe as
an earth.
Only the centre wire on the coax is connected to the actual longwire.

Is there a way I could do better.

I am thinking about getting an active antenna, the Sony AN-1

Would this work better for me or is there a better alternative available.
I am running an Icom R72
thanks
Rikk

[David]

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 13:25:52 GMT, "Rikk" <rikks...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

You're losing at least half your signal. These match the wire to the
cable.

http://www.geocities.com/qrp_baluns/LM.html

[barne...@aol.com]

This looks like a good design.

An AN-LP1 wil not do much compared to your current rig.

What are the RF conditions like ; is it a " radio Quiet / Electronics
Quiet"rural area
or are ou in the midst of an urban area..

[Rikk]

Hi
I live in a rural area. nearest city is 6 miles
thanks
Rikk

<barne...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141567181....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[Rikk]

"David" <ric...@knac.com> wrote in message
news:2lrl02l03aupnj059...@4ax.com...

Hi David
I visited the website you mentioned. and think the LMZ-50 would be best for
me.
How exactly does this work please, do I simply connect the longwire to the
balun, and the run coax from balun to radio via cb coax.
thanks
Rikk

[Verstaldin]

That sounds like a good rig, but it is going to be more efficient at lower
frequencies. You might rig up another one about 1/4 that length and use it
for higher frequencies.

50 feet=50x3.28=164 meters
300/164=1.8 Mhz which is in medium wave band

12 feet=41 meters
300/42=7.31

6 feet=19.68 meters
300/19.68=15.24 Mhz

While it isn't necessary to have an exact match, down to the millimeter,
getting the length nearly correct is important, because of the signal
strength losses mentioned in the previous post. This is why a longwire is
very useful for very low frequencies. At higher frequencies you get more
noise than signal.

If you try to use a high power transmitter with an antenna badly matched for
the band on which you are transmitting, most of your energy will simply
comes crashing back at your trasmitter and burn up your circuitry <s>.

Some lucky individuals intersted in very low frequency phenomena have the
space to run wires miles in length, and need special arrangements to
accommodate the incredible voltages generated. Many very strange natural
signals lurk on frequencies that would be voice frequencies if they were
sound, and are very strange indeed.
http://www.auroralchorus.com/wr3gde.htm
He has some interesting recordings at another link you can find on that
site. HTH V

HTH V.

All life all holiness come from you O Lord

"Rikk" <rikks...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:c0EOf.63375$Dn4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...

[David]

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:11:09 GMT, "Rikk" <rikks...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>

>

>Hi David
>I visited the website you mentioned. and think the LMZ-50 would be best for
>me.
>How exactly does this work please, do I simply connect the longwire to the
>balun, and the run coax from balun to radio via cb coax.
>thanks
>Rikk
>
>

You can use plain old RG-6 Cable TV coax if you like. You use a 75
Ohm matcher at the antenna and the appropriate mechanical adapter at
the receiver. If you have a portable, use a flexible adapter to keep
strain off the little plug.

[Unrevealed Source]

You'll see a huge improvement if you using a matching transformer between
the long wire and the coax. Also try to keep that matching transformer as
far from the house as possible.

"Rikk" <rikks...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:AFBOf.63353$Dn4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...

[Rikk]

"Rikk" <rikks...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:AFBOf.63353$Dn4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...

Hi Guys
Thanks all very much for your help, I appreciate your comments, I have opted
to order a balun from a supplier mention on this thread and see how it goes
from there.
I shall also try a few of your other suggestions as they are really
interesting in therory.
As you can probably see, I am relativly new to sw and until now have been
using the SW77 on it's telescopic antenna, but time for me to move forward a
bit, so I will see what I can do with the R72
thanks again
Rikk
United Kingdom

[mi...@sushi.com]

It's not a given that cutting back the antenna will yield better
reception. You are reducing the aperture.

[cuh...@webtv.net]

How did you solder that ground wire to that water pipe?
cuhulin

[Rikk]

<cuh...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21271-440...@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net...

> How did you solder that ground wire to that water pipe?
> cuhulin
>

Hi
I just cleaned the pipe itself with a wire brush till it was shining like
new, got a jubilee clip ( car hose clip) and put the ground wire through the
clip, tightened the clip on the pipe then used my heavy duty solder gun, I
ran a test with my multimeter and it is giving a good ground.
cheers
Rikk

[cuh...@webtv.net]

About four years ago,that married Irish woman in Bognor Regis,England
hired a guy to repair a leaky pipe in their toilet.The guy didn't know
anything at all about doing plumbing repair jobs.He tried to solder that
leaky pipe instead of replacing the leaky pipe with a new pipe.I guess
old Tony bought quite a few pints at the pubs over there with the money
they paid him.
cuhulin

[David]

http://www.daveswebshop.com/pvagc1.shtml

[Bob Miller]

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 13:25:52 GMT, "Rikk" <rikks...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>Hi

If you don't have too much man-made noise inside your house, you might
consider bringing the random wire all the way to the 500-ohm terminal
on the back of your receiver, and run your ground wire from the
terminal next to it to your cold water pipe. This gets rid of the
mismatch between your high impedance antenna and low impedance coax,
and you don't need the balun at all, which is fine, because the balun
only provides an approximate impedance transformation.

Another alternative would be to bring the long wire into your house,
and attach it to an inexpensive random wire antenna tuner, such as an
MFJ 16010, about $49 US. Then run a short length of coax from the
tuner to your radio's 50-ohm input. As you go to each new frequency,
peak the knobs for maximum signal strength.

Yet another alternative, keep your current antenna; add the balun to
it or whatever. But put up a 2nd antenna, perhaps aimed in a different
direction, and run it to your high impedance terminal. Switch between
the two antennas for best reception on a given signal. You could do
some interesting A-B comparisons on antennas.

Bob
k5qwg

[Telamon]

In article <mAFOf.63438$Dn4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
"Rikk" <rikks...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

You are off to a good start and as someone else in the thread already
mentioned you could improve the random wire performance with a UNUN
impedance matching transformer at the coax/random wire junction.

This wire should already be working better then the whip. You can tune
through the bands to get an idea how well it is working. Usually good
wire performance will start at the 1/4 wavelength frequency of the wire
length and will work well from that frequency on up except at even
multiples of that 1/4 wavelength so 1/2 wavelength would not be good.

As long as the even multiple does not fall on a SW band you are OK.

Some people use more than one wire. I think this is a game plan that
DxAce uses with two separate wires one twice the length of the other. I
think he uses a 100 and 200 foot lengths. Where one would be at zero
volts at the end of the wire the other would be at maximum. If at a
non-resonate wavelength they could look the same.

Since your long length is 50 foot you tie on another 25 foot wire at the
coax junction and hang the far end off the 50 foot wire a few feet with
an insulator of fishing line as an example. Not as clean as two separate
wires but it should work well.

A 50 foot wire in air should be 1/4 wave resonate at about 9.7 MHz. The
9 MHz band would be your best to pick up signals with the 50 foot wire.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

[dxAce]

Telamon wrote:

I'm using a 70' wire running N-S and a 200' wire running W-E.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

[cuh...@webtv.net]

And after she had her bathroom completely remodeled (she got ahold of a
plumbing company by the name of Brough,or something like that) after
that Tony guy messed it all up,she emailed me a photo of her newly
remodeled bathroom.But the photo is turned 90 degrees to the left.I have
to crane my head 90 degrees to see the photo right side up.
cuhulin

[HFguy]

The antenna configuration you have is similar to a 'sloper' design where
one end is higher than the other. To reduce the reception of noise from
appliances in your home, it's better to locate the balun (unun) near the
ground (earth) instead of in the air at the end of the antenna. This
means you should extend the feed end of the antenna to the ground with a
single vertical wire (not coax) and connect that wire to the high
impedance input of the balun. The low impedance output of the balun goes
to the coax that should run on/in the ground to the house. Having the
balun and coax near the ground will allow you to use a short ground wire
from the balun to a ground rod near by. This helps to keep noise off the
shield of the coax.
This antenna system (inverted-L) works best if both ends of the
horizontal section are located away from the house. In your case you can
make the far end of the antenna at the wash line pole the feed end with
the vertical wire to the balun near the ground. Instead of having the
near end come all the way to the mast on the house, shorten it about
20-ft and install an insulator at that end with some nylon rope to the
mast. This will keep the near end of the antenna away from the house,
where it could pick up noise. The vertical wire at the other end will
make up for shortening the antenna at the house end. It will also help
to receive signals which arrive at the antenna from a low angle to the
horizon.
My antenna is very similar except I installed a 20-ft metal pole on top
of the wooden clothes line pole to make that end higher above ground.
This also makes the vertical wire longer for better reception.

[m II]

These come in two styles. The zinc (or aluminium?) style is for indoor,
dry locations. The brass version may be buried in the soil. I'd use an
anti oxidant such as Penetrox or NoAlox on the screws and joint if
burying the connection.

mike

[Telamon]

In article <440B645D...@milestones.com>,
dxAce <dx...@milestones.com> wrote:

Were the two different lengths intentional or that they fit your home
lot? The different lengths do work in your favor.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

[dxAce]

Telamon wrote:

Pretty much intentional, but they fit my lot which is 85' wide by 463 deep.

I do have a bit of leeway with the neighbours permission for some longer
lengths, but this setup seems to work fairly well, and my target list these days
is quite short, at least country wise.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

[Telamon]

In article <440BA6D9...@milestones.com>,
dxAce <dx...@milestones.com> wrote:

I'm quite envious of the fact that you can use that type of antenna.
Much to electrically noisy around here for me to do that and about 40
feet is the best I can do anyway on this small lot.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

[RHF]

HF Guy,

Good Inverted "L" Antenna lay-out suggestion and
a good discription on how-to put it all together.

iane ~ RHF
.
.
. .
.

[Rikk]

"HFguy" <HF...@connifer.net> wrote in message
news:NLMOf.920$6h1.61@trndny09...

Thanks very much HF Guy, for your excellent suggestion and easy to follow
instructions.
I am obliged to you
regards
Rikk
UK

[RHF]

BM [K5QWG] - Those were Three Good Antenna Suggestions.

IF - The Low-Z (50 Ohm) SO-239 Connector on the Receiver is being
used for some sort of LongWire {Random Wire} Antenna that is using
a Matching Transformer and a Coax Cable Feed-in-Line.

NOTE - My Favorite is the Inverted "L" Antenna with with the
Vertical-Up-Leg at the Far-End and a Remotely Located
Ground Rod at base of the Far-End of the Antenna; also
using a Matching Transformer (UnUn) between the Wire
Antenna Element and the Coax Cable Feed-in-Line and
having the Coax Cable run directly under the Horizontal
Arm of the Antenna.

READ - ABOUT - The "Low Noise" Antenna design concepts
that were popularized by John Doty :
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/9586383afa7727a9

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a438b087b5e89fee

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/5178
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/43463ad863e5b075

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/254620d18b66eeba

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/103fe02cad4e5650

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/87d35eeaa8425c14
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a57711375bb4d0bb

THEN CONSIDER A SECOND SHORTWAVE ANTENNA
- - - THINK WINDOM ANTENNA ! ! !
As you observe the High-Z Terminals (500 Ohm) are not being used.
So the High-Z Terminals (500 Ohm) are available to connect a
Second (2nd) "Alternate" {Back-Up} Antenna to the Receiver.

QUESTION : What Will . . .
My Second Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna Be ?
{Making Use of the High-Z (500 Ohm) Terminals}
! Think Windom Antenna with 300 Ohm Feed-in-Line !

My Choice for this Second "Alternate" {Back-Up} Antenna
is a Windom Antenna using 300 Ohm TV type Twin Lead
as the Feed-in-Line and simple 20 AWG Hook-Up Wire
as the Wire Antenna Elements.

The Two 'un-equal' Horizontal-Arms of the Windom Antenna
can be Cut for your Target Shortwave Bands or simply
Cut-to-Fit the Available Space allowed by your Lot (Land).

TIP - The Off-Center {Center} Connector for your Windom
* Ten-Tec 3003 Acro-Bat (Dipole Antenna Hanger)
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/3720.html

Windom Antenna = Available Space Tip-to-Tip (T2T) Length
* Short Horizontal-Arm 33% ~ 38% of T2T Length
* Long Horizontal-Arm 62% ~ 67% of T2T Length
* How High ? Rigged the Windom at 25% of T2T Length

Windom Antenna = Cut-to-Shortwave-Band

Large Size - Windom Antenna {~ 100 Feet}
Cut for : 60 Meters = 75 Meters + 49 Meters
T2T = 97.7 Ft = 59.2 Ft + 38.5 Ft and Rigged at 24.5 Ft High

Medium Size - Windom Antenna {~ 65 Feet}
Cut for : 41 Meters = 49 Meters + 31 Meters
T2T = 63.0 Ft = 38.5 Ft + 24.5 and Rigged at 17.1 Ft High

Small Size - Windom Antenna {~ 50 Feet}
Cut for : 31 Meters = 41 Meters + 25 Meters
T2T = 51.5 Ft = 31.8 Ft + 19.7 Ft and Rigged at 15.1 Ft High

Mini Size - Windom Antenna {~ 40 Feet}
Cut for : 25 Meters = 31 Meters + 19 Meters
T2T = 39.6 Ft = 24.5 Ft + 15.1 Ft and Rigged at 10.8 Ft High

RIGGING - Ideally the 300 Ohm Twin Lead Vertical-Up-Leg
of the Windom Antenna should run Straight-Up (Vertically)
from the Ground to the Off-Center Mounting Point of the
Antenna and the Rule-of-Thumb for this simple type of
Windom Antenna is to have the Antenna's Horizontal Arms
Rigged [Flat] at about 25% of the Tip-to-Tip (T2T) Length
of the Antenna. Note - The remainder of the Twin Lead
Feed-in-Line can run along the Ground and then to the
Receiver.

READ - Windom -vice- Dipole which is the better SWL Antenna ? ? ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/b3c69758fb501718

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWL-AM-FM-Antenna/message/80
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/1677
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/1596
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/1582

READ - History of the Windom Antenna from the Scottish Ham Portal
http://www.scotham.net
.
.
hope this helps - iane ~ RHF
.
Tous Sont Bienvenus ! - - - Groupe par Radio
d'auditeur d'onde courte pour des Antennes de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Alle Sind Willkommen ! - - - Shortwave Radiozuhörer
Gruppe für SWL Antennen
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Tutti Sono Benvenuti ! - - - Gruppo Radiofonico
dell'ascoltatore di onda corta per le Antenne di SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Todos São Bem-vindos ! - - - Grupo de Rádio
do ouvinte do Shortwave para Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Все Радушны ! - - - Группа оператора
на приеме коротковолнового диапазона
Radio для Aнтенн SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
¡Todos Son Agradables! - - - Grupo de Radio del oyente
de la onda corta para las Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
= = = = = Translation = = = = =
All are Welcome - - - To Join the Shortwave Listeners
(SWL) Antenna Group on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/

[HFguy]

You're welcome. Let us know how it works out.

[Mark Zenier]

In article <jkEOf.1003$x94...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,

Verstaldin <dami...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>That sounds like a good rig, but it is going to be more efficient at lower
>frequencies. You might rig up another one about 1/4 that length and use it
>for higher frequencies.
>
>50 feet=50x3.28=164 meters
>300/164=1.8 Mhz which is in medium wave band

I'm surprised that no one else noticed that you've reversed your
conversion factor. That should be 50/3.28, not 50 * 3.28.

Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)