Getting ready to hook up a random and hav a question...
amy...@personainternet.com
at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
house.
I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.
Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?
Punched down the ground rod and secured the tripod on the boat house
today, just have to decide the antenna hook in.
Gotta love the spring like conditions in mid December to do this. Norm
is high of -3C, tomorrow +12C.
Brian
Telamon
amy...@personainternet.com wrote:
> I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
> at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
> ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
> ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
> house.
>
> I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
> other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
> into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
> attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.
>
> Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
> expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?
Nether, so you might as well go with #2.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
The Mid-December Weather here in Twain Harte,
{Sierra Nevada Foothills} California today was
Semi-Sunny with Light Snow (~30mm) and -1C Temp
Getting Ready To Hook-Up A Random Wire Antenna -and- Have A Question...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/11671
Far-End-Fed Inverted "L" Antenna -Reading List-
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/22e30053633904d9
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e1d43c05075de087
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e0b3ddbed819958d
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/a57711375bb4d0bb
Generally the Far-End feed-point usually produces the
best results : Provided that the Far-End is away from
more sources-of-noise then the Near-End (House Side).
- - - It is not a good idea to run/route your Wire Antenna
Element towards the Utility Poles.
One of the things with the Far-End feed-point is not to have
the Wire Antenna Element come all the way back to the
House. With either the Near-or-Far End feed-point have the
Antenna Element away from the House and away from most
of your 'close-in' sources-of-noise is the better way of Rigging
you Wire Antenna Element.
House to ------- Horizontal Wire
Far-End --------- Antenna Element
Feed-Point ----- Length
150 Feet = = = 120 Feet
120 Feet = = = 100 Feet
80 Feet = = = 64 Feet
75 Feet = = = 60 Feet
60 Feet = = = 48 Feet
50 Feet = = = 40 Feet
Those last few Feet (20%) closest to the House
may be the greatest source of noise-pick-up (80%)
from your total Wire Antenna Element's length.
Note - This is 'if' you have done everything else in
eliminating sources-of-noise in your House and
noise-migration-paths along your Antenna and
Feed-in-Line System.
at least that is how i see it from my 'far-end' - iane ~ RHF
.
.
I-B Somewhere on "The Big Blue Marble"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Marble
{ Earth - The Third Planet from the Sun }
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_planet_from_the_Sun
.
Shortwave Listener Antennas => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
SWL Antenna Group => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
.
The Shortwave Listener's Blessing :
SWL BLESSING => http://tinyurl.com/s2bjm
May You Never Tire of Listening to the Radio and Always
have Strong Signals and Noise Free Reception ~ RHF {ibid}
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/9233
.
Tous Sont Bienvenus ! - - - Groupe par Radio
d'auditeur d'onde courte pour des Antennes de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Alle Sind Willkommen ! - - - Shortwave Radiozuhörer
Gruppe für SWL Antennen
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Tutti Sono Benvenuti ! - - - Gruppo Radiofonico
dell'ascoltatore di onda corta per le Antenne di SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Todos São Bem-vindos ! - - - Grupo de Rádio
do ouvinte do Shortwave para Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Все Радушны ! - - - Группа оператора
на приеме коротковолнового диапазона
Radio для Aнтенн SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
¡Todos Son Agradables! - - - Grupo de Radio del oyente
de la onda corta para las Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
= = = = Plain Old American-English Translation = = = =
All are Welcome - - - To Join the Shortwave Listeners
(SWL) Antenna Group on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
|
|
|
/ \
-------!-------
On Dec 16, 2:25 pm, amyo...@personainternet.com wrote:
-
- I have read that the best way, quiestest,
- to hook into a random wire is at the far end,
- attach a balun,
- go thru a ground block attached to a ground rod,
- bury the coax as it runs to the house,
- go thru another ground block which is
- connected to another ground rod
- then into the house.
-
- I have 2 options here, one is the above
- (about 150 feet of coax),
- the other is to hook into the random at the near end,
- thru a balun,
- feed into the attic to a ground block
- that has about 40 feet of ground wire
- attached coming from the ground rod,
- then to the receiver.
-
- Which is the better?
-
- Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
- expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?
-
- Punched down the ground rod and
- secured the tripod on the boat house today,
- just have to decide the antenna hook in.
-
- Gotta love the spring like conditions
- in mid December to do this.
- Norm is high of -3C, tomorrow +12C.
-
- Brian
.
.
. .
HFguy
> I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
> at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
> ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
> ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
> house.
>
> I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
> other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
> into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
> attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.
>
> Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
> expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?
The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
noise.
dxAce
HFguy wrote:
Before this thread got started I'd never really heard of the practice of using
the extra length of coax and hooking up the random wire at the far end versus
the closer end.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
amy...@personainternet.com
I am still having a problem getting my head around the short ground
connection to the rod.
What is the difference between say 40 ft. of ground wire to the ground
block versas the outer coax jacket going 40 ft after the ground block
that is 2 feet from the rod.
Would either not act as an antenna for picking up common mode noise?
Brian
bpnjensen
dxAce, Don't you have your antenna feeds connect to your wires a fair
distance from your house anyway? (I say this based on a cursory look at
the photos on your website...)
Thus, in your circumstances, it may not be all that critical...in which
case I might not have stumbled across it either. If I could connect
farther from my house, I would - but in my case, it would put the
lead-in adjacent to one of two sets of electrical lines that partially
rim my yard. Living in the city can bite sometimes (to put it mildly).
Bruce Jensen
dxAce
bpnjensen wrote:
> dxAce, Don't you have your antenna feeds connect to your wires a fair
> distance from your house anyway? (I say this based on a cursory look at
> the photos on your website...)
Yes, I'd say they're about 50-75 feet out back.
> Thus, in your circumstances, it may not be all that critical...in which
> case I might not have stumbled across it either. If I could connect
> farther from my house, I would - but in my case, it would put the
> lead-in adjacent to one of two sets of electrical lines that partially
> rim my yard. Living in the city can bite sometimes (to put it mildly).
Sorry, I still don't get it. The antenna is where the antenna is!
Now I could imagine that it would make a difference ( though slight ) if for example
I were to feed my 200' wire at the far end ( east end ) in which case it might just
receive just a bit better to the west depending upon the frequency.
By the way, my matching transformers are grounded at the feedpoint with about 9' of
ground wire ( horrors! ).
http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/pics.htm
Antenna pic is looking west, at the end of the then 100' wire, now extended to 200'.
Pic was taken in Nov. 2001.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
bpnjensen
> > dxAce, Don't you have your antenna feeds connect to your wires a fair
> > distance from your house anyway? (I say this based on a cursory look at
> > the photos on your website...)
>
> Yes, I'd say they're about 50-75 feet out back.
That's a good safe distance, I'd say.
> > Thus, in your circumstances, it may not be all that critical...in which
> > case I might not have stumbled across it either. If I could connect
> > farther from my house, I would - but in my case, it would put the
> > lead-in adjacent to one of two sets of electrical lines that partially
> > rim my yard. Living in the city can bite sometimes (to put it mildly).
>
> Sorry, I still don't get it. The antenna is where the antenna is!
>
> Now I could imagine that it would make a difference ( though slight ) if for example
> I were to feed my 200' wire at the far end ( east end ) in which case it might just
> receive just a bit better to the west depending upon the frequency.
>
> By the way, my matching transformers are grounded at the feedpoint with about 9' of
> ground wire ( horrors! ).
This may be the key right here. Getting the *groundpoint* well away
from the house keeps it out of the hornet's nest of RF that swarms
around most homes, and prevents it from becoming a significant conduit
(at least that's the theory). For most people, this will mean feeding
it at the far end of the antenna. In my own case, I have RF sources at
all points of my smallish yard, so it wouldn't make a lot of difference
where I feed and ground the thing. A windom-style antenna with a
central feed and ground point might help, but even then I'd only be
about 15-20 feet horizontally from any major RF source at best.
I don't think the groundwire length makes that much diff, as long as
it's well away from RFI.
> http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/pics.htm
>
> Antenna pic is looking west, at the end of the then 100' wire, now extended to 200'.
> Pic was taken in Nov. 2001.
Nice setup - nothing too high, over open ground so it's easy to work
on. Even though it's sort of low (maybe ten feet?), you get the
probable advantage of relatively quiet RF environment - well, I guess I
can dream!
BJ
> dxAce
> Michigan
> USA
cuh...@webtv.net
Springtime.But what do I know? Looking at the ground,perhaps in the Fall
of the year.Nice antenna setup anyway.
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
cuhulin
dxAce
bpnjensen wrote:
Supports are 9' high.
> you get the
> probable advantage of relatively quiet RF environment - well, I guess I
> can dream!
Yes, relatively quiet... noise here is typically S2 or less. I work at it from time to
time though with our local BPW.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
HFguy
When the coax (shield) is grounded near the balun which is located close
to the ground rod at the bottom of the random wire's vertical section of
wire, a common mode signal picked up on the coax shield going to the
house, can not feed back into the center conductor of the coax through
the antenna connection at the balun. When the coax ground is *only* on
the other end of the coax, the shield can pick up noise and feed it into
the center conductor at the antenna end where it becomes a differential
mode signal that the radio can receive.
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/feed/feed1.html
RHF
You "Got-It-Right !" - It is one possible method of Rigging
{Installing} a Shortwave Antenna in smaller urban lots and
achieving both good Signal Levels and Low Noise results.
Plus it usually puts "The Lay" of the Coax Cable
under-the-ground directly below the Elevated
Wire Antenna Element. This also makes the
Outer-Shield of the Coax a Ground {Reflecting}
Radiator and helps to unify the conformity of
that area of the ground along "The Lay" of the
Coax Cable and the Wire Antenna Element.
at least that is how 'i' see it - iane ~ RHF
.
.
. .
On Dec 19, 7:24 am, "bpnjensen" <bpnjen...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> dxAce wrote:
> > HFguy wrote:
>
> > > amyo...@personainternet.com wrote:
>
> > > > I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
> > > > at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
> > > > ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
> > > > ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
> > > > house.
>
> > > > I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
> > > > other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
> > > > into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
> > > > attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.
>
> > > > Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
> > > > expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?
>
> > > The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
> > > between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
> > > balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
> > > wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
> > > The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
> > > RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
> > > noise.
>
> > Before this thread got started I'd never really heard of the practice of using
> > the extra length of coax and hooking up the random wire at the far end versus
> > the closer end.
>
> > dxAce
> > Michigan
> > USAdxAce, Don't you have your antenna feeds connect to your wires a fair
> distance from your house anyway? (I say this based on a cursory look at
> the photos on your website...)
>
> Thus, in your circumstances, it may not be all that critical...in which
> case I might not have stumbled across it either. If I could connect
> farther from my house, I would - but in my case, it would put the
> lead-in adjacent to one of two sets of electrical lines that partially
> rim my yard. Living in the city can bite sometimes (to put it mildly).
>
> Bruce Jensen- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
RHF
On Dec 19, 12:25 pm, dxAce <d...@milestones.com> wrote:
> bpnjensen wrote:
> > dxAce wrote:
> > > HFguy wrote:
>
> > > > amyo...@personainternet.com wrote:
>
> > > > > I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
> > > > > at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
> > > > > ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
> > > > > ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
> > > > > house.
>
> > > > > I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
> > > > > other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
> > > > > into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
> > > > > attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.
>
> > > > > Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
> > > > > expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?
>
> > > > The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
> > > > between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
> > > > balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
> > > > wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
> > > > The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
> > > > RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
> > > > noise.
>
> > > Before this thread got started I'd never really heard of the practice of using
> > > the extra length of coax and hooking up the random wire at the far end versus
> > > the closer end.
>
> > dxAce, Don't you have your antenna feeds connect to your wires a fair
> > distance from your house anyway? (I say this based on a cursory look at
> > the photos on your website...)Yes, I'd say they're about 50-75 feet out back.
>
> > Thus, in your circumstances, it may not be all that critical...in which
> > case I might not have stumbled across it either. If I could connect
> > farther from my house, I would - but in my case, it would put the
> > lead-in adjacent to one of two sets of electrical lines that partially
> > rim my yard. Living in the city can bite sometimes (to put it mildly).Sorry, I still don't get it. The antenna is where the antenna is!
>
> Now I could imagine that it would make a difference ( though slight ) if for example
> I were to feed my 200' wire at the far end ( east end ) in which case it might just
> receive just a bit better to the west depending upon the frequency.
>
- By the way, my matching transformers are grounded
- at the feedpoint with about 9' of ground wire ( horrors! ).
DX Ace,
Nine Feet (9-Ft) compared to 100-Ft or 200-Ft long Wire Antenna
Element is not much especially when it is 75-Ft away from the
house. ~ 1-in-12 / 1-in-23
The original post suggested that one opion was to use a 40-Ft
piece of Ground Wire {Down-Lead} compared to (used with) a
150-Ft Wire Antenna Element. ~ 1-in-5
- - - IMHO - This would be a "Bent" {Off-Center-Fed} Dipole
[Type] Antenna with a longer Horizontal-Out-Arm connected
to a Matching Transformer with a shorter Vertical-Down-Leg
that is Grounded at the bottom. Plus the shorter Vertical-
Down-Leg is directly in-the-house being saturated by all the
Man-Made-Noise 'aka' Home-Made RFI and EMF.
- - - Sort-of-Brings-to-Mind : What is often sold as a
Shortwave Listeners (SWLs) "Slopper" Antenna
* Alpha Delta DX-SWL Sloper
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/0799.html
* Antenna SuperMarket Eavesdropper SWL Sloper
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/0013.html
* Super DX Sloper All Band Antenna
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ180065567988
at least that is how 'i' see it - iane ~ RHF
.
.
. .
> http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/pics.htm
>
> Antenna pic is looking west, at the end of the then 100' wire, now extended to 200'.
> Pic was taken in Nov. 2001.
>
> dxAce
> Michigan
> USA- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
RHF
WHY - The Far-End-Fed Shortwave Listener's (SWLs) Inverted "L" Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/11698
It has been suggested by many over the years for those trying
to put-up Shortwave (HF) Antennas in small urban lots where
Man-Made-Noise RFI and EMF are very real problems.
- - - IIRC - John Doty referred to it in his many writings
-and- I have suggested it here before, as one possible method
of Laying-Out and Rigging a Shortwave Listener's (SWLs) Antenna.
- - - Maybe I Got the Idea for this Set-Up from the Wellbrook (UK)
webpage for Low Noise Antenna using the Universal Magnetic Balun
and the Antenna Feeder Isolator. Take-a-Look & Check-it-Out :
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
Two Drawings : The Wrong Way and Right Way by Wellbrook.
* Getting Ready To Hook-Up A Random Wire Antenna
-and- Have A Question...
http://www.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ba40a90812205bf9
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/11671
* Moderate Signal & Very Low Noise Antenna Design :
A 110 Foot Coax Cable feed-in-line going out away
from the House with 100 Feet Buried that is coupled
to an a Far-End-Fed 15V/50H Foot Inverted "L" Antenna
Element and using a Matching Transformer and a
remotely located Ground Rod at the base of the Antenna.
- Why - The Entire 65 Feet of the Antenna is away
from the House by 50 Feet and is relatively Noise Free.
http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/d475a10814862d1d
* The Better Long Wire Antenna :
+ You may find that you would get even better Radio
Reception with a 50 Foot Coax Cable out to 50 Feet
and a 100 Foot Wire Antenna Element from 51-150 Feet.
+ Add - A MatchingTransformer between the Wire
Antenna Element and the Coax Cable.
+ Install - A remote Ground Rod at the 50 Foot point
where the MatchingTransformer, Wire Antenna
Element and the Coax Cable all come together.
+ Plus - Get the Wire Antenna Element Up-in-the-Air
about 15-25 Feet - So that it is not a Ground
Tripping Hazard or a ClothesLine type Hazard.
+ Rig - The Wire Antenna Element as a Short
Vertical-Up-Leg with a Long Horizontal-Out-Arm
+ Lets call it an Inverted "L" {Shape} Antenna :o)
http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ef9be06710280fb3
* Far-End-Fed 'Low Noise' Inverted "L" Antenna
- 25 Foot Vertical-Up-Leg
- 75 Foot Horizontal-Out-Arm
Laid Out : North-to-South
Antenna Element : #14 AWG Insulated Stranded (19) Copper Wire
Matching Transformer (UnUn) : RF Junkie "SWL-1" 10:1 MLB
Remote {Primary} Ground : 8 Foot Ground Rod
Feed-in-Line : RG8 Coax Cable
Shack's Ground : 8 Foot Ground Rod
Feed-Line-Isolator : : RF Junkie 1:1 UnUn
.
Antenna-and-Ground System :
The Feed-Point of the Inverted "L" Antenna is at the Far-End
of the Antenna away from the House. At the Bottom of the
Vertical-Up-Leg of the Antenna a 'remote' earthen Ground
Rod is installed in the Ground. The Matching Transformer
(UnUn/MLB) is Mounted directly on the Top of the Ground
Rod. The Feed-in-Line Coax Cable is run directly under the
Horizontal-Out-Arm of the Wire Antenna Element; and is
Buried about 6"-8" under the surface of the ground. The
Feed-in-Line comes out of the ground near the House and is
connected to a Feed-Line-Isolator that is mounted on the Shack's
Outside Ground Rod using two Hose Clamps on the two PL-259
Plugs connected to both ends of the Isolator. The second 20 Foot
piece of Coax Cable goes up to the Shack's Antenna Switch that
is tied to the Shack's Ground. Finally a 3 Foot piece of Coax
Cable is connected to the Receiver which is also tied to the Shack's
Ground. When the Receiver is not in use the Antenna Switch is
'set' to the Center "Grounded" Position.
.
Got the Idea for this Set-up from the Wellbrook (UK) webpage for
Low Noise Antenna using the Universal Magnetic Balun and the
Antenna Feeder Isolator. Take-a-Look & Check-it-Out :
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
Two Drawings : The Wrong Way and Right Way by Wellbrook.
REPEAT - CHECK-OUT THE WELLBROOK (UK) WEBPAGE
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/f0f72ca458581b9c
* A Second Look : The WellBrook lay-out for a Low Noise Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/4856
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
.
This webpage by WellBrook shows what I think is the best way
of using a 9:1 Matching Transformer at the 'remote' Antenna
Feed-Point and then using a 1:1 Line Isolation (Coupler) at the
ground level (rod) entry to the House.
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
.
Note - How the Feed-Point of the Antenna is moved to the
Far-End of the Antenna vice the normal way of simply using
the Nearest-End as the Feed-Point.
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
.
TIP - Burying the Coax Cable under the Ground directly
under the elevated Antenna Wire can also improve the
overall properties of Antenna.
(Making the Coax Cable a Unifying Ground Radial)
.
IMHO - Even if a 1:1 Line Isolation (Coupler) is not used
with the above lay-out of a Far-End-Fed Inverted "L"
Antenna. Since the Horizontal Arm of the Antenna would
be at least 30 Feet (10 Meters) the distance would still
make the use of an Antenna Feed-Point Ground and a
Shack Ground the better Noise Reduction Set-Up.
http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
PLUS AGAIN - Burying the Coax Cable under the Ground
directly under the elevated Antenna Wire can also improve
the overall properties of Antenna.
(Making the Coax Cable a Unifying Ground Radial
between the Antenna Ground and the Shack Ground.)
http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/83ecfc2f91fe5c7e
http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/bb023dcbd76abc37
http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e1d43c05075de087
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READING LIST - Low Noise Shortwave Listener's (SWL) Antenna :
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* Building an Inverted "L" Antenna using the PAR Electronics
EF-SWL (End Fed - Shortwave Listener) Antennna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/3089
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* Low Noise Shortwave Listener's (SWL) Antenna - by Design
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/3015
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* The Shortwave Listener's (SWLs) Antenna a simple practical
Devise for Better Radio Rececption.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/2471
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* Three "Must" Links to Read -wrt- Low Noise Shortwave
Listener (SWL) Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/2016
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* The Inverted "L" Antenna
- It's 'basic' Lay-Out and Structure {Why It Works}
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/1969
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* The 'simple' Answer (in most cases) is the Low Noise
Inverted "L" Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/1785
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* Converting a Random Wire Antenna to a 'Low Noise'
Inverted "L" Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/1766
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* Par EF-SWL End-Fed Shortwave Antenna configured
as an Inverted "L" Antenna
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/1562
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* Antennas - Five Things to Consider : Antenna, Balun,
Ground, Coax and Planning
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/1544
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Shortwave Listening {Receive Only} Antennas
- Away is better then Up ! Or Is It ?
http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/d475a10814862d1d
http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ef9be06710280fb3
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ever one to blow my own horn - iane ~ RHF
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.......!.......
On Dec 19, 5:38 am, dxAce <d...@milestones.com> wrote:
> HFguy wrote:
> > amyo...@personainternet.com wrote:
>
> > > I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
> > > at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
> > > ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
> > > ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
> > > house.
>
> > > I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
> > > other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
> > > into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
> > > attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.
>
> > > Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
> > > expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?
>
> > The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
> > between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
> > balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
> > wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
> > The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
> > RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
> > noise.Before this thread got started I'd never really heard of the practice of using
> the extra length of coax and hooking up the random wire at the far end versus
> the closer end.
>
> dxAce
> Michigan
amy...@personainternet.com
> >>
> >>The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
> >>between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
> >>balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
> >>wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
> >>The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
> >>RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
> >>noise.
> >
> >
> > I am still having a problem getting my head around the short ground
> > connection to the rod.
> >
> > What is the difference between say 40 ft. of ground wire to the ground
> > block versas the outer coax jacket going 40 ft after the ground block
> > that is 2 feet from the rod.
> >
> > Would either not act as an antenna for picking up common mode noise?
> >
> > Brian
>
> When the coax (shield) is grounded near the balun which is located close
> to the ground rod at the bottom of the random wire's vertical section of
> wire, a common mode signal picked up on the coax shield going to the
> house, can not feed back into the center conductor of the coax through
> the antenna connection at the balun.
I got that part and will add another 15 ft of antenna into an "inverted
L" shape to bring to the ground point. Only 15 ft, so more like a
crooked Random. Unfortunately this will bring the Balun at the far end
connection point to about 2 ft from the boathouse. There is a power
feed to the boarthouse that can be turned off easily at the house.
Also with the ground at the boat house the soil is very moist so should
be a good ground point.
When the coax ground is *only* on
> the other end of the coax, the shield can pick up noise and feed it into
> the center conductor at the antenna end where it becomes a differential
> mode signal that the radio can receive.
>
> http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/feed/feed1.html
The part I have a problem understanding is the second ground connection
near the house having to be as short as possible. I don't see the
difference between 40 feet of ground wire to the second ground block in
say an attic if the antenna lead was coming into the attic or 40 ft of
the coax outer jacket if the coax goes thru a ground block at the rod.
Seems to me both could act more like an antenna for picking up common
mode noise.
I have posted a sketch onto alt.binaires.pictures.radio showing the 2
setups.
Since the above is no longer part of my setup this is more of an
interest sake.
Thanks to the replies I have recieved my antenna plans have changed in
the past couple of weeks to the suggested far feed antenna connection,
far feed ground rod, balun close to ground rod, coax buried for about
125 ft to another ground block at house which will be attached to a
ground rod near the house, and then coax to the reciever.
Think I am on the right track. Warm weather is still here so grounds
not frozen or snow covered so trenching will be easy.
Again Thanks
Brian
amy...@personainternet.com
The sketch I posted should have shown a Balun in the attic. I will be
using the LMZ-50 balun which relies on the coax ground for its ground.
Again the sketch is for conversation/understanding only as I will be
running my feed differently.
Brian