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There are Grounds and then there are Grounds. . . Being Well Grounded !

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RHF

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 7:02:15 AM10/14/05
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FC,

So this is a simple (not-too-technical) explanation.

There are Grounds and then there are Grounds. . .
Being Well Grounded !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/5822

First you have your Household Electrical System Ground :
Commonly called the House's Safety Ground.

Then you have your Shack's Ground that is 'tied' into the
House's Safety Ground. This is logical since your Radios
and Shack's Equipment is usually powered by the House's
AC Electrical Power System. The Shack's Ground often is
an Eight Foot (8') Ground Rod that is place into the
Ground near the Shack and then connected via a Wire to
the House's Main Service Entry Box where the Primary
Safety Ground is connected (or should be connected).

Now your Shortwave Antennas unless they are Balanced
'type' Antennas like a Dipole or Loop. Also "Require"
(Need) a Ground for the RF Signal that is developed by
the un-balanced Antenna. So this is the RF Signal
{Return Path} Ground. Most of the time with a simple
LongWire (Random Wire) Antenna this is via the Antenna
Terminal (Plug) on your Radio or Equipment. Sometimes
an electrical component(s) is in this RF Signal path but
for these RF Signal they look like a direct connection.
The Radio's Antenna Input is the Load that the RF Signal
is developed against along with the Shack's Ground.

For more complex Antenna and Ground Systems the Antenna
may have it's own Ground at/near the Feed-Point of the
Antenna. Often with these types of Antenna and Ground
installations a Matching Transformer (Balun/UnUn) is
used with the Larger Primary Winding of the Matching
Transformer connected across the Antenna and Ground.
This Primary Winding provides a Direct DC Current Path
between the Antenna's Wire Element and the Ground Rod.
However to RF Signals it looks like a Higher Resistance
(Reactance) and acts as a Load between the Antenna and
Ground to develop a Signal across which is coupled to
the Secondary Winding that feed the Coax Cable to the
Radio/Receivers.

The Best Lightning Protection that most people have with
the common Antenna and Ground Systems is to DISCONNECT
Their Antennas From the Radios and Equipment When They
Are Not Being Used [.] It is better to Disconnect the
Antennas at the point where the Coax Cable is connected
to the Antenna or Matching Transformer. If you can not
do this and you simply want to "Turn-Off" the Antenna
from the Radios and Equipment. Then an Antenna Switch
that is Grounded and has a Disconnected (Neutral) Position
is a 'fair' alternative choice in areas that have very
little Thunder and Lightning Storms.

Well I know that I have not answered all of your questions.
But may be I have answered some of your questions; and
that is a start.

Comments ? ? ? and any Additional Information ! ! !


hope this helps - iane ~ RHF
.
All are WELCOME and "Invited to Join" the
Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna eGroup on YAHOO !
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/>
SWL ANTENNAS GROUP => http://tinyurl.com/an6tw
.
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/502
.
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night . . .
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The BEYOND !
With a Shortwave Listener SWL Antenna of your own making.
"If You Build It {SWL Antenna} You Will Hear Them !"
.
.
. .
= = = In Satel...@yahoogroups.com,
= = = Frank Cangemi <m*rch*8*9*9@y...> wrote:

RHF,

I'm trying to understand the purpose of the ground wire.
I've always understood the ground to be a safety path for
things like shorts or lightning strikes, but what confuses
me is that the ground flow would seem to be stealing energy
away from the antenna. If I hook to my radio my 80 ft longwire
or my rhombic wire on the roof, I get a big increase in signal
strength. The ladder wire coming into the radio gets hooked
either to the antenna jack or whip using an alligator clip.
Would these already contain a ground connection, or would I
gain by hooking up a separate ground? I'm trying to visualize
your description of the ground in the last post.

Thanks...
Frank in Boston
.
.
. .

David

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 9:43:28 AM10/14/05
to
On 14 Oct 2005 04:02:15 -0700, "RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net>
wrote:

>FC,
>
>So this is a simple (not-too-technical) explanation.

>


>Now your Shortwave Antennas unless they are Balanced
>'type' Antennas like a Dipole or Loop. Also "Require"
>(Need) a Ground for the RF Signal that is developed by
>the un-balanced Antenna. So this is the RF Signal
>{Return Path} Ground. Most of the time with a simple
>LongWire (Random Wire) Antenna this is via the Antenna
>Terminal (Plug) on your Radio or Equipment. Sometimes
>an electrical component(s) is in this RF Signal path but
>for these RF Signal they look like a direct connection.
>The Radio's Antenna Input is the Load that the RF Signal
>is developed against along with the Shack's Ground.
>
>For more complex Antenna and Ground Systems the Antenna
>may have it's own Ground at/near the Feed-Point of the
>Antenna. Often with these types of Antenna and Ground
>installations a Matching Transformer (Balun/UnUn) is
>used with the Larger Primary Winding of the Matching
>Transformer connected across the Antenna and Ground.
>This Primary Winding provides a Direct DC Current Path
>between the Antenna's Wire Element and the Ground Rod.
>However to RF Signals it looks like a Higher Resistance
>(Reactance) and acts as a Load between the Antenna and
>Ground to develop a Signal across which is coupled to
>the Secondary Winding that feed the Coax Cable to the
>Radio/Receivers.

You are not only a moron, you are dangerous:

http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?id=grounding/unformatted/satellite&type=u&title=Satellite%20Dish%20(1-12-2K)


RHF

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 10:47:13 AM10/14/05
to
David - You can post them but do you read them ?

i am glad that you recognize that i am dangerous ~ RHF
.
.
. .

David

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 11:57:22 AM10/14/05
to
On 14 Oct 2005 07:47:13 -0700, "RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net>
wrote:

>David - You can post them but do you read them ?
>
>i am glad that you recognize that i am dangerous ~ RHF
> .

To tell people that ''balanced'' antennas need no ground is
irresponible.


sdan...@nyc.rr.com

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 12:28:27 PM10/14/05
to
Why don't you mouth off *after* you repair your own defective antenna.

bpnjensen

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 12:44:34 PM10/14/05
to
>To tell people that ''balanced'' antennas need no ground is
irresponible.<

Depends on what the ground is for. For safety, everything should be
grounded. For "mere" reception, a balanced antenna requires no ground.

Bruce Jensen

Brian Hill

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 8:03:05 PM10/14/05
to

<sdan...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1129307307.9...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Why don't you mouth off *after* you repair your own defective antenna.
>

I think Dave just likes being upset.

B.H.


David

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 8:22:01 PM10/14/05
to
On 14 Oct 2005 09:44:34 -0700, "bpnjensen" <bpnj...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Not necessarily a ''ground''. They make UL approved 300 Ohm balanced
lightning arrestors.

Scroll down to 309.

http://www.iceradioproducts.com/impulse1.html

.

FDR

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 8:49:02 PM10/14/05
to

"RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1129287735....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

What does his have to do with prayer in school?

RHF

unread,
Oct 14, 2005, 10:54:45 PM10/14/05
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FDR - Gawd Only Knows :o) ~ RHF
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. .

RHF

unread,
Oct 15, 2005, 12:50:32 AM10/15/05
to
now, Now. NOW ! - David 'you' are being DaviD ;-}

David - The Shack's Equipment needs a Ground.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_%28electricity%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_rod

David - The Antenna may need a Lightning Aresstor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_arrester

David - The properly installed Half-Wave Dipole Antenna
that is erected at the right Height in and of itself does
not need a Ground to function as a 'balanced' Antenna for
both receiving and transmitting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_height_considerations
http://www.g4nsj.co.uk/dipole.shtml
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/man/pdf/MFJ-1742.pdf
http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/antennas/antenna-basics.htm
http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/antennas/dipole/dipole.php
http://www.cebik.com/gup/gup2.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/dipole-antenna-1
http://www.antenna.be/hd.html
http://www.monitoringtimes.com/html/body_ant-2.html
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/RadCom/part7/page1.html

http://www.ycars.org/EFRA/Module%20C/AntDip.htm
http://www-antenna.pe.titech.ac.jp/~hira/hobby/edu/em/halfdip/halfdip.html


antenna, Antenna. ANTENNA !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_(radio)
http://www.west.net/~jax/archive/basic01.html


david - enjoy listening to your radios ~ RHF
( with an antenna of your own choosing )
.
.
. .

David

unread,
Oct 15, 2005, 9:14:15 AM10/15/05
to
On 14 Oct 2005 21:50:32 -0700, "RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net>
wrote:

Any wire coming into your house must have approved methods of dealing
with lightning or usually your fire insurance policy is nullified.


RHF

unread,
Oct 15, 2005, 10:07:13 AM10/15/05
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David - I will let you have the last word on that. ~ RHF
.
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. .

cuh...@webtv.net

unread,
Oct 15, 2005, 10:20:56 AM10/15/05
to
A well grounded radio is a safer radio.Especially an old metal cabinet
radio.You don't want to be touching a metal cabinet radio (or anything
else,for that matter) and at the same time lightning "touching" that
radio.ZAPPPPPPP!!!!!!! www.lightningstorm.com
cuhulin

RHF

unread,
Oct 15, 2005, 11:03:03 AM10/15/05
to
Cuhulin - Then you may end up Touched (by Lightning :o) ~ RHF
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. .

cuh...@webtv.net

unread,
Oct 15, 2005, 11:50:54 AM10/15/05
to
Teched by the Hand of GOD.Works for me!
cuhulin

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