2-5-2011 - R. Verdad (tent)
bpnjensen
apparent conversation, SINPO 15231. Not sure what they are using for
a TX now, but fair signal.
Bruce Jensen, CA, USA
R75 & 60 foot random wire
m II
Bruce, could you check 1480 Khz AM? I think it's from Texas. Spanish
speaking. I got it some months ago, but not much luck lately.
mike
dave
> 2-5-2011, GUATEMALA, R. Verdad (tent), 4052.5 AM, very weak SS,
> apparent conversation, SINPO 15231. Not sure what they are using for
> a TX now, but fair signal.
>
> Bruce Jensen, CA, USA
60 feet is too short. Even if you have radical bends a longer wire will
work better. You could always try the loop.
dave
1480 is a high band regional channel used in about every third city out
west.
bpnjensen
I will give it a try tonight - but we get lousy MW DX here as a rule.
bpnjensen
Well - yes, it's too short - and yet it still overloads all of my
radii with signals from 50 kW 1100 AM about 2 miles away...and that's
just the beginning. RF Hell is right here.
I do have a QSL from them though, and for a signal that was
considerably weaker than this one :-)
RHF
> 2-5-2011, GUATEMALA, R. Verdad (tent), 4052.5 AM, very weak SS,
> apparent conversation, SINPO 15231. Not sure what they are using for
> a TX now, but fair signal.
- Bruce Jensen, CA, USA
"CA" is a big place north to south
"SF Bay Area, CA, USA" would be nicer :o)
.
- R75 & 60 foot random wire
BpnJ is this "60 foot random wire" your
newly built Shortwave [SWL] Antenna ?
-or- an older existing Shortwave Antenna ?
? I thought it was an Inverted "L" Antenna !
-not-just-a- Straight Horizontal 'Flat' Wire Antenna ?
*IF* the newly built SWL Antenna is
an Inverted "L" Antenna ?
How many Feet in the Up-Vertical-Leg ?
-and- How many Feet in the Out-Horizontal-Arm ?
=Total= Combined Feet of the Antenna Wire
+Plus+ The general 'Lay' {Direction} of the Horizontal
Antenna Wire from the the Up-Vertical-Leg out to the
Far-End of the Out-Horizontal-Arm : N & NE & E & SE
& S & SW & W & NW & N
iwtk ~ RHF
.
.
bpnjensen
It's the new one. Well, yes, that's right, an inverted L. The
vertical is about 30 feet, the horizontal about 60. Oriented nearly
north-south (not checked with a compass), far end is south. Guatemala
is off the forward left side if you looking the direction the antenna
is aimed.
How much does the 30 vertical do for you, other than collect
vertically polarized QRM? The only reason, really, I built it this
way was to allow the 9:1 antenna unun to be mounted near ground (the
ground is not in place yet, but will be soon). Otherwise, I would
have put the whole thing up high, or possibly sloped with the unun end
down.
This morning (1800z onward), the VOA relays from MDG and BOT (Africa)
on 16 and 19 meters were coming in almost like locals.
Bruce
D. Peter Maus
> On Feb 5, 12:55 pm, RHF<rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> On Feb 4, 10:05 pm, bpnjensen<bpnjen...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 2-5-2011, GUATEMALA, R. Verdad (tent), 4052.5 AM, very weak SS,
>>> apparent conversation, SINPO 15231. Not sure what they are using for
>>> a TX now, but fair signal.
>>
>> - Bruce Jensen, CA, USA
>>
>> "CA" is a big place north to south
>> "SF Bay Area, CA, USA" would be nicer :o)
>> .
>>
>> BpnJ is this "60 foot random wire" your
>> newly built Shortwave [SWL] Antenna ?
>> -or- an older existing Shortwave Antenna ?
>>
>> ? I thought it was an Inverted "L" Antenna !
>> -not-just-a- Straight Horizontal 'Flat' Wire Antenna ?
>>
>> *IF* the newly built SWL Antenna is
>> an Inverted "L" Antenna ?
>>
>> How many Feet in the Up-Vertical-Leg ?
>> -and- How many Feet in the Out-Horizontal-Arm ?
>> =Total= Combined Feet of the Antenna Wire
>> +Plus+ The general 'Lay' {Direction} of the Horizontal
>> Antenna Wire from the the Up-Vertical-Leg out to the
>> Far-End of the Out-Horizontal-Arm : N& NE& E& SE
>>
>> iwtk ~ RHF
>> .
>> .
>
> It's the new one. Well, yes, that's right, an inverted L. The
> vertical is about 30 feet, the horizontal about 60. Oriented nearly
> north-south (not checked with a compass), far end is south. Guatemala
> is off the forward left side if you looking the direction the antenna
> is aimed.
>
> How much does the 30 vertical do for you, other than collect
> vertically polarized QRM? The only reason, really, I built it this
> way was to allow the 9:1 antenna unun to be mounted near ground (the
> ground is not in place yet, but will be soon). Otherwise, I would
> have put the whole thing up high, or possibly sloped with the unun end
> down.
>
Once you get your ground in place, experiment with variations of the
installation.
You do have a quite a bit of antenna, there. Verify that you've not
got too much. Look for images, indicating overload. A pad may be required.
bpnjensen
Oh, I have overload for sure - I need that attenuator certain times of
day. Not sure what I can do for variations? After I get the ground
in, the only thing left to add is the Isolator and that's it. Gotta
be honest - any less length/height and I won't hear a damn thing below
5 MHz, and those are my favorite bands by far. The weakness of those
bands compared to anywhere else I've lived is ridiculous.
A large full-wave loop for 90m would be great. Almost impossible to
fit, but great.
If this does not work, I am just going to buy myself 1,000 feet or
wire and head for the most remote beach I can drive to. Ron Howard
has great results over at Asilomar near Carmel.
dave
> How much does the 30 vertical do for you, other than collect
> vertically polarized QRM? The only reason, really, I built it this
> way was to allow the 9:1 antenna unun to be mounted near ground (the
> ground is not in place yet, but will be soon). Otherwise, I would
> have put the whole thing up high, or possibly sloped with the unun end
> down.
>
> This morning (1800z onward), the VOA relays from MDG and BOT (Africa)
> on 16 and 19 meters were coming in almost like locals.
>
> Bruce
90 feet is way better than 60 feet. Sunspots have been sucky.
bpnjensen
You said. The solar flux is still just barely above 80.
RHF
- It's the new one. Well, yes, that's right, an inverted L. The
- vertical is about 30 feet, the horizontal about 60. Oriented nearly
- north-south (not checked with a compass), far end is south.
Guatemala
- is off the forward left side if you looking the direction the
antenna
- is aimed.
BpnJ,
'The Antenna's Size' is "The Antenna's Size" : A Fixed Point
-how-ever- as the Frequency Varies for 500 kHs to 1 MHz
to 2 MHz to 4 MHz to 8 MHz to 16 MHz to 32 MHz
the Propagation Characteristics of the Antenna ~change~
So having the Vertical-Up-Leg as your Starting Reference
Point and your Far-End as your End-Point should/would
allow you to have an Idea {Hunch} about the Receiving
Properties of your Fixed Size Antenna on any given
High {Shortwave} Frequency [HF].
.
.
- How much does the 30 vertical do for you, other than
- collect vertically polarized QRM?
How better to get to your 60 Foot Out-Horizontal-Arm
1/3rd Omni-Direction Vertical Antenna
+plus+
2/3rds Off-the-Sides Horizontal Antenna*
-and- 45 Degree Out-from-the-Sides Horizontal Antenna*
-and- Off-the-End Horizontal Antenna*
* Depending on the Frequency
.
- The only reason, really, I built it this way was to
- allow the 9:1 antenna unun to be mounted near
- ground (the ground is not in place yet, but will be
- soon). Otherwise, I would have put the whole thing
- up high, or possibly sloped with the unun end down.
Close to the Ground is 'good'.
.
- This morning (1800z onward), the VOA relays from
- MDG and BOT (Africa) on 16 and 19 meters were
- coming in almost like locals.
-
- Bruce
Strong Signals and less noise is good too :o) ~ RHF
.
.
RHF
- Otherwise, I would have put the whole thing up high,
- or possibly sloped with the unun end down.
Better would be to have the Feed-in-Line running
4"~6" below the Ground directly under the Wire
Antenna Element all the way out to the UnUn and
Ground Rod; with the Antenna Element Sloping-Up
back over the 'lay' of the Feed-in-Line.
~ RHF
dave
Real slopers have the feedpoint at the top.
dave
> Better would be to have the Feed-in-Line running
> 4"~6" below the Ground directly under the Wire
> Antenna Element all the way out to the UnUn and
> Ground Rod; with the Antenna Element Sloping-Up
> back over the 'lay' of the Feed-in-Line.
>
Why not elevate the transmission line overhead and implement a switching
arrangement to turn the mess above into a delta loop if needed for fun
and education on certain bands. What would the circumference be??
bpnjensen
Actually, isn't the directionality of a wire along it's axis? That's
how the PAR end-fed SWL antenna is, according to Dale...
bpnjensen
Yepp, but then it's a lot harder to get the thing grounded. Either
way, you still get a more omni pattern.
bpnjensen
.
>
> - Otherwise, I would have put the whole thing up high,
> - or possibly sloped with the unun end down.
>
> Better would be to have the Feed-in-Line running
> 4"~6" below the Ground directly under the Wire
> Antenna Element all the way out to the UnUn and
> Ground Rod; with the Antenna Element Sloping-Up
> back over the 'lay' of the Feed-in-Line.
>
> ~ RHF
>
Why is the alignment important?
dave
> On Feb 6, 2:14 am, RHF<rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> On Feb 5, 2:32 pm, bpnjensen<bpnjen...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 5, 12:55 pm, RHF<rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Feb 4, 10:05 pm, bpnjensen<bpnjen...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> 2-5-2011, GUATEMALA, R. Verdad (tent), 4052.5 AM, very weak SS,
>>>>> apparent conversation, SINPO 15231. Not sure what they are using for
>>>>> a TX now, but fair signal.
>>
>>>> - Bruce Jensen, CA, USA
>>
>>>> "CA" is a big place north to south
>>>> "SF Bay Area, CA, USA" would be nicer :o)
>>>> .
>>
>>>> BpnJ is this "60 foot random wire" your
>>>> newly built Shortwave [SWL] Antenna ?
>>>> -or- an older existing Shortwave Antenna ?
>>
>>>> ? I thought it was an Inverted "L" Antenna !
>>>> -not-just-a- Straight Horizontal 'Flat' Wire Antenna ?
>>
>>>> *IF* the newly built SWL Antenna is
>>>> an Inverted "L" Antenna ?
>>
>>>> How many Feet in the Up-Vertical-Leg ?
>>>> -and- How many Feet in the Out-Horizontal-Arm ?
>>>> =Total= Combined Feet of the Antenna Wire
>>>> +Plus+ The general 'Lay' {Direction} of the Horizontal
>>>> Antenna Wire from the the Up-Vertical-Leg out to the
That is a very complicated subject. Usually a wire close to the ground
has a pattern between a kaleidoscope and a butterfly on acid. Seriously,
like a butterfly more often than not, with various lobes and nulls
depending on the frequency.
dave
I was playing along but wondered the same thing.
RHF
Dave a "Sloper" Antenna gets it's name from the
fact that the Wire Antenna Element is 'Sloping' :
There are many 'types' of so-called "Sloper" Antennas
-and- Many 'configurations' of so-called "Sloper"
Antennas
-all- Built for a specific Radio Listening {Broadcasting}
needs and equally practical 'design' considerations.
.
Amateur Radio Operators [Hams] with an existing
Tower 'Mast' : Found that the could also use the
available 'Mast' as the Upper Rigging-Point for a
Half-Wave "Sloper" {45*} Antenna also using the
Grounded 'Mast' as a back-reflector.
http://www.wd0m.com/image/antennas/Sloper%2040.jpg
The HAM "Sloper" Antenna can be directional
on specific Ham Bands.
.
The HAM Half-Wave "Sloper" {45*} Antenna is :
~50% Horizontal & ~50% Vertical Polarized
http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl/sloper2.gif
.
The Shortwave Radio Listener [SWL] "Sloper"
Antennas assumes that the SWL does not have
an existing Tower 'Mast'; and the SWL "Sloper"
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/5062dia.jpg
Antennas use a Vertical 'Down' Wire that can be
used as an artificial Radial {other half of a dipole}
or can be Grounded as a Ground Reflector.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/pg29d1a.gif
* Most SWL "Sloper" Antennas are slopped at ~ 30* :
~75% Horizontal & ~25% Vertical Polarized
* Most function as Quarter-Wave "Sloper" Antennas
* Most have a High Feed-Point 25~30 Feet and a
Lower End-Point 8~10 Feet {this is to keep the
Lower End-Point 'over-head' and not a Hanging a/o
Tripping Hazard}
* The SWL "Sloper" Antenna is generally 'omni'
directional across the SWL [HF] Bands.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/0013.jpg
.
An 'alternative' HAM and SWL "Sloper" Antenna is
Fed from Ground Level and Rigged-Up-To A High-Point
{For all those who do not have existing Towers 'Masts'}
with the Coax Cable running under the 'lay' of the
Antenna Wire Element -or- a Ground Radial running
under the 'lay' of the Antenna Wire Element.
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/wire/sloper_large.html
-read- "Sloper Antenna Tests" -by-Mark Connelly [WA1ION]
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/wire/sloper.html
-image-
http://www.mds975.co.uk/Images/amateur_radio/top_band_antenna_01.jpg
-image-
http://www.mds975.co.uk/Images/amateur_radio/top_band_inverted-L_01.png
.
For want of a better name... a sloper is a Sloper
is a SLOPER . . .
.
iane ~ RHF
http://k9zw.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/parabol.gif
.
.
Kevin Alfred Strom
[...]
Bruce:
I have EZNEC, which is a very good antenna modeling program. I
modeled your antenna for various frequencies and created a fairly
readable 3D plot of its pattern on various frequencies. In each
case, the horizontal wire points in the opposite direction from the
Y axis shown in the plots:
1 MHz:
http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%201.PNG
5 MHz:
http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%205.PNG
6 MHz:
http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%206.PNG
7 MHz:
http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%207.PNG
10 MHz:
http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%2010.PNG
15 MHz:
http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%2015.PNG
17 MHz:
http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%2017.PNG
22 MHz:
http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%2022.PNG
With all good wishes,
Kevin, WB4AIO.
--
http://nationalvanguard.org/
http://kevinalfredstrom.com/
RHF
> On Feb 6, 2:32 am, RHF <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> .
>
>
>
> > - Otherwise, I would have put the whole thing up high,
> > - or possibly sloped with the unun end down.
>
- - 4"~6" below the Ground directly under the Wire
- - Antenna Element all the way out to the UnUn and
- - Ground Rod; with the Antenna Element Sloping-Up
- - back over the 'lay' of the Feed-in-Line.
- -
- - ~ RHF
- Why is the alignment important?
BpnJ : ? Alignment = Lay-Out = By-Design !
Many Types and Configurations of "Sloper" Antennas
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/087a96ab218b8103
NOTE : The "Sloper" Antenna normally needs a better
more consistent Earthen Ground under it than an
Elevated Horizontal "Flat" Wire Antenna.
* The "Sloper" Antenna is more of a 'Ground Reflective'
Aerial
* * The Elevated Horizontal "Flat" Wire Antenna is more
of a 'Free Space' Aerial. {Higher Up and Away from the
Earth 'Ground'}
.
Counting The Design Benefits :
Many 'design' considerations can go into the Design and
Lay-Out of an Antenna {Aerial} : Where 1+2+3+4 can
simply do not add-up to 10 -but- multiply up out to 24 :o)
1 - Buried the Coax Cable in a Trench 4"~8" in/under
the Earthen Ground {Reduces the potential RF Noise
pick-up from the Coax from the Antenna into the House}
1A - Placing a bare Copper Wire in the Trench with the
Coax Cable and 'connecting' the Wire to the Feed-Point
Ground Rod -result- a Consistent Ground Path.
2 - Puts the Feed-Point Away from the House
{Away from the 5 Feet 5 Metre Envelope of RF
Noise around the House -a-la- Wellbrook layout}
3 - The Buried Coax Cable acts as a uniform {unified}
Ground Radiator {Reflector} directly under the Lay of
the Wire Antenna Element.
4 - The Ground Rod {Feed-Point} is removed from the
House. {Away from the 5 Feet / 5 Metre Envelope of
RF Noise around the House -a-la- Wellbrook layout}
5 - The Matching Transformer [MT] can be Mounted
directly on to and Grounded directly to the Ground Rod.
{Optimum Grounding}
5A - Using a Line Isolator near the House with a 2nd
Ground Rod along with the "MT" on the Feed-Point
Ground Rod 'unifies' #1, #2, #3, #4 & #5 above.
5B - Placing a bare Copper Wire in the Trench with the
Coax Cable and 'connecting' the Wire to both Ground
Rods -result- a Uniform {Unified} Ground System.
6 - The Remoted/Removed Ground Rod and Feed-Point
put's your 1st Lightning Strike/EMF Grounding {Earth}
Point away from the House {Better Safety for those in
the House} Plus the Electrical Path from the Ground
Rod Feed-Point to the House is under/in the Earth
{Ground}.
7 - The Antenna Wire High-Point Rigging-Point can be
away from the House. {Away from the 5 Feet / 5 Metre
Envelope of RF Noise around the House -a-la- Wellbrook
layout}
8 - Alternative Design "Lay-Out" : Run the Coax Cable
out away from the House out to near {3~6 Feet} a
Fence/Lot-Line.
* Put your Ground Rod there along with your Matching
Transformer [MT] Mounted directly on to and Grounded
directly to the Ground Rod. {Optimum Grounding} .
* Find/Establish/Erect a High-End / Rigging-Point for
the End of the Antenna Wire. {Rig the Antenna Wire}
* Trench a single bare Copper Ground Radial {Reflector}
directly under the Lay of the Antenna Wire and connect
it to the Ground Rod.
.
Simply applies the Design and Lay-Out Concepts of
the Wellbrook 'Correct-Way' Inverted "L" Antenna to
the "Sloper" Antenna for Shortwave Radio Listeners
[SWLs]. =:= http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/longwire.html
.
Many Types and Configurations of "Sloper" Antennas
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/087a96ab218b8103
.
.
bpnj - i am glad you asked... iane ~ RHF
http://k9zw.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/parabol.gif
.
.
dave
> On Feb 6, 6:09 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>>
>> Real slopers have the feedpoint at the top.
>
> * Most have a High Feed-Point 25~30 Feet and a
> Lower End-Point 8~10 Feet {this is to keep the
> Lower End-Point 'over-head' and not a Hanging a/o
> Tripping Hazard}
Do you know how many volts are at the far end of a dipole when it is fed
100 Watts at resonance?
bpnjensen
wrote:
Wow! These are amazing! Thanks, Kevin. I am somewhat surprised,
though, by the apparently omnidirectional character (at least
horizontally) on the lower freqs. The higher end looks like a
mathematical nightmare!
One thing notable too, is the lower angle of radiation on the higher
freqs. I wish I could attain those on the lower ones - but the only
way to do that is go higher, I guess.
dave
The sloper's a vertical and needs a bottom half. Grounds work better 6
feet in the air than 6 inches below the earth. All antennas are dipoles.
m II
well, if it's at the maximum point of the sine wave, it should be p =
e^2 / r, or e^2 = 100*75, or e = root (7500) = 87 volts
I'm now wondering where the screw up is....I'm assuming a 75 ohm loading.
mike
RHF
> On 02/06/2011 01:49 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> > On Feb 6, 6:09 am, dave<d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> >> Real slopers have the feedpoint at the top.
>
- - Lower End-Point 8~10 Feet {this is to keep the
- - Lower End-Point 'over-head' and not a Hanging a/o
- - Tripping Hazard}
- Do you know how many volts are at the far end
- of a dipole when it is fed 100 Watts at resonance?
Dave : ? "far end of a dipole" antenna ?
Dave how does that related to a "Sloper" Antennas ?
Many Types and Configurations of "Sloper" Antennas
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/087a96ab218b8103
Dave : ? "volts" ? & ? "100 Watts" ?
Generally for Receive Only Shortwave Radio Listening
[SWL] Antennas Transmitting {powered} Parameters
are not a practical consideration. =KASAP=
.
Designing and Laying-Out a Better SWL "Sloper" Antenna
for Shortwave Radio Listeners
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/2e6ea9f54a2bb3b0
.
.
RHF
- All antennas are dipoles.
The Ying & Yang {Balanced Forces}
Many Types and Configurations of "Sloper" Antennas
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/087a96ab218b8103
.
Designing and Laying-Out a Better SWL "Sloper" Antenna
for Shortwave Radio Listeners
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/2e6ea9f54a2bb3b0
.
.
RHF
> On 11-02-04 11:05 PM, bpnjensen wrote:
>
> > 2-5-2011, GUATEMALA, R. Verdad (tent), 4052.5 AM, very weak SS,
> > apparent conversation, SINPO 15231. Not sure what they are using for
> > a TX now, but fair signal.
>
> > R75& 60 foot random wire
>
- I think it's from Texas. Spanish speaking.
- I got it some months ago, but not much luck lately.
-
- mike
Mike,
Heard faint 'French' in-and-out for about 10~15 Minutes
on 1480 kHz around 9:30 PM PST {local} with several
English Stations in the mix -but- NO Spanish.
~ RHF
Twain Harte, CA -USA-
Grundig Satellit 800-M Receiver
http://tinyurl.com/2fn6xog
.
.
Kevin Alfred Strom
[...]
>>
>> Bruce:
>>
>> I have EZNEC, which is a very good antenna modeling program. I
>> modeled your antenna for various frequencies and created a fairly
>> readable 3D plot of its pattern on various frequencies. In each
>> case, the horizontal wire points in the opposite direction from the
>> Y axis shown in the plots:
>>
>> 1 MHz:http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%201.PNG
>>
>> 5 MHz:http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%205.PNG
>>
>> 6 MHz:http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%206.PNG
>>
>> 7 MHz:http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%207.PNG
>>
>> 10 MHz:http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%2010.PNG
>>
>> 15 MHz:http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%2015.PNG
>>
>> 17 MHz:http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%2017.PNG
>>
>> 22 MHz:http://liberty.3950.net/Jensen%2022.PNG
>>
>> With all good wishes,
>>
>> Kevin, WB4AIO.
>> --http://nationalvanguard.org/http://kevinalfredstrom.com/
>
> Wow! These are amazing! Thanks, Kevin. I am somewhat surprised,
> though, by the apparently omnidirectional character (at least
> horizontally) on the lower freqs.
You're welcome.
Well, the omni pattern an octave or so around the quarter wave
resonance isn't too surprising, really, if you think about it.
The vertical section gives omnidirectionality in the horizontal
plane, but a null directly overhead. The horizontal part fills in
that null and is basically elliptical in the horizontal plane. So
they complement each other to produce an almost-omni pattern. Nice
antenna, really. My 150-foot inverted L was one of my favorite
antennas of all time for 75 meter ham use.
You might be able to enhance the low angles with a radial ground
system, but for receiving on the noisier low bands you might not be
able to perceive any improvement beyond higher S-meter readings. A
beverage antenna would give you low angle directivity, as would a
K9AY loop.
> The higher end looks like a
> mathematical nightmare!
That's the psychedelic butterfly pattern that Dave was talking about.
>
> One thing notable too, is the lower angle of radiation on the higher
> freqs. I wish I could attain those on the lower ones - but the only
> way to do that is go higher, I guess.
If you want to suppress the high-angle part of the pattern (and make
nearby North American signals and static weaker compared to the
farther DX), going strictly vertical would help. A horizontal
antenna a half wave up has a similar effect (that's up about 100
feet for 60 meters).
Have fun,
bpnjensen
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have so often thought about a vert - could put a couple up in small
areas, easily, each opposite corner of the ridgeline, and phase them
together for noise reduction and steering. My neighbors would
probably welcome those in place of the ugly Alpha-Delta DX-Ultra with
coax coil balun that's now hoisted 25 feet up :-)
Luckily a full-wave loop is more stealthy ;-)
bpnjensen
> You do have a quite a bit of antenna, there. Verify that you've not
> got too much. Look for images, indicating overload. A pad may be required.
FWIW, I have found that this new antenna, even before the unun is
grounded, works *extremely* well on almost all bands for elimination
of electrical hash noise with my DX-Ultra and MFJ-1026. I can lop off
4-8 S-Units of hash noise while scarcely touching the desired signal,
leaving otherwise obscured signals either in the clear or almost so.
It has brought otherwise undetectable signals to easy copy. Right
now, I'm wishing I had room for two of them - I could silence 60 and
90 meters background with them.
Maybe I'll take down the DX-Ultra and put up another one of these.
I'd hate to lose the DX-U (it's great on everything 41 meters and up),
but two matched antennae on the MFJ-1026 would work wonders, I think.
Bruce
D Peter Maus
Excellent. This is good to hear. Congratulations.
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Without counting all my chickens before they hatch, I will say I am
very pleased - and grateful to you, Peter, and the other folks
including Roy, Dave, Kevin, MII and others who have chimed in with
their help and advice. Thanks!
D Peter Maus
Always glad to help in what marginal way I may, Bruce.
If you've had THAT kind of noise reduction, you're going to enjoy a
whole new world of listening.
I know you've mentioned it before, but I've had lunch since
then...which receiver are you feeding with this?
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL! Three of them - Icom R75, Allied SX-190 and a DX-160.
D. Peter Maus
Oh, that's right...you discussed that SX-190 at some length. Duh...
And I remember being envious because of it.
So, how does it handle now that you've got a reasonably quiet
antenna on the front end?
And how does it compare to R75?
bpnjensen
>
> - Show quoted text -
The R75 is considerably more sensitive and/or with a better s/n ratio,
given the same antenna system. Things are fairly audible on the R75
that are in the hash on the SX-190. Still, the SX-190 is a bunch of
fun. For a bad hum, I need to get either a capacitor replacement on
the power supply, or figure out the wiring on the 12VDC plug (an oddly
configured 4-prong socket) and see if that does the trick. Also might
be some bad caps in the audio chain.
D. Peter Maus
Given its age, a few questionable caps should be expected. A
couple of hours with a fine soldering iron will do wonders.
RHF
-fwiw- The "Allied AX/SX-190 Receiver"
a 'Resource Collection' Compliments of Mark Rehorst
http://deane.bio.ucalgary.ca/Allied-SX-190-Info-Oct02.pdf
.
Allied AX/SX-190 Amateur and Short Wave Receiver Info
http://mark.rehorst.com/Allied_SX-190/index.html
http://www.dxing.com/rx/ax190.htm
.
.
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Is it a regular AC 60 Hz hum ?
bpnjensen
It sure sounds like it - present at all audio volume levels - but when
the volume is turned up to maximum, at about 3/4 volume the hum gets
louder - that's why I think it may be a combination.
arthr...@webtv.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
I would change the larger electrolytics first --> C90 and C91 .
D. Peter Maus
Sufficient power supply ripple alone would keep the RF stages from
working, and the AF stages from amplifying an intelligible signal. It
would also be relatively constant in amplitude.
But a moderate amount of power supply ripple would produce an audible
hum regardless of volume setting, and because the ripple is impressed on
the preamp stages and at various locations throughout the receiver there
would be a variation in audible hum with volume control.
Start by replacing the power supply capacitors. And then replace all
the bypass and decoupling caps. And then the interstage caps.
Eventually, all the electrolytics will go. You'll be amazed at the
difference.
RHF
- All antennas are dipoles.
Many/Most of the SWL "Sloper" Antennas do appear
physically to be more like an inverted bent "L" shaped
{off-center-fed} Dipole Antennas :
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/images/dxswl.gif
http://www.hamradio.com/images_manuf/H0-005126A.jpg
* Especially when the shorter Vertical 'Half' Down-Wire
is NOT Grounded.
http://t2k.wdfiles.com/local--files/shortwave-receiving-antennas/super-sloper-002.jpg
* The Longer Sloping 'Half' sloping off and down at an angle.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/0013.jpg
? As A Matter Of Fact ! . . . ? WHY ?
Does The SWL "Sloper" Antenna Have A 'Down-Wire' ?
iane ~ RHF
.
.
Many Types and Configurations of "Sloper" Antennas
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/087a96ab218b8103
.
Designing and Laying-Out a Better SWL "Sloper" Antenna
for Shortwave Radio Listeners
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/2e6ea9f54a2bb3b0
.
.
Somewhere I remember reading that a SWL'er* had
taken a longer piece of Insulated Stranded Copper
Wire and repaced the shorter Down-Wire of his
"Sloper" Antenna. Routed/Run this Insulated Wire
down the Side of the House and out along the ground
under the 'Lay' of the Sloping Antenna Wire Element.
* Claim that his produced the best Signals and least
noise and was better than grounding the Down-Wire
at the Side of the House. {I have not tried that yet}
.
.
dave
> .
> Somewhere I remember reading that a SWL'er* had
> taken a longer piece of Insulated Stranded Copper
> Wire and repaced the shorter Down-Wire of his
> "Sloper" Antenna. Routed/Run this Insulated Wire
> down the Side of the House and out along the ground
> under the 'Lay' of the Sloping Antenna Wire Element.
> * Claim that his produced the best Signals and least
> noise and was better than grounding the Down-Wire
> at the Side of the House. {I have not tried that yet}
> .
SWLers claim a lot of bogus things.
Joe from Kokomo
>>> Is it a regular AC 60 Hz hum ?
>>
>> It sure sounds like it - present at all audio volume levels - but when
>> the volume is turned up to maximum, at about 3/4 volume the hum gets
>> louder - that's why I think it may be a combination.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I would change the larger electrolytics first --> C90 and C91 .
Can't hurt to change the 'lytics, but presuming it has the more common
full-wave (not half-wave) rectifier, the hum from bad filter caps will
be 120 Hz.
RHF
- - On 02/09/2011 07:58 PM, RHF wrote:
- - .
- - Somewhere I remember reading that a SWL'er* had
- - taken a longer piece of Insulated Stranded Copper
- - Wire and repaced the shorter Down-Wire of his
- - "Sloper" Antenna. Routed/Run this Insulated Wire
- - down the Side of the House and out along the ground
- - under the 'Lay' of the Sloping Antenna Wire Element.
- - * Claim that his produced the best Signals and least
- - noise and was better than grounding the Down-Wire
- - at the Side of the House. {I have not tried that yet}
- - .
- SWLers claim a lot of bogus things.
Dave,
IMHO : More Often Then Not The SWL'ers State The
Simple Honest Factual Truth As They Hear* It :o)
* Their Own Personal Subjective Experience
{What Appears To Work For Them}
-versus- Objective Measured Evidence and Advertising Hype
What I have found out over the years Dave is
what Works for one Shortwave Radio Listener
[SWL] in one location does not necessarily
translate and work for the guy : down-the-street
over-the-hill; down-on-the-3rd-floor; etc etc etc...
The Is NO Single Right Way {One Size Does NOT Fit All}
Generally I take people at their Word and their
Claimed Results : Look just this last few weeks
BpnJ built his own new home brewed SWL
Antenna and says it produces a better Signal
and Lower Noise than his Commercial DX-Ultra
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/3377.html
Professionally Engineering and Factory Made
SWL Antenna.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/e0efdc4caaa8ceff
Simply Happy That BpnJ is Getting Better Results
.
Getting back to the Idea of the Extended Down-Wire
laying under the "Sloper" Antenna : I can see how
in a Location with a poor ground {lousy earth} or
may be for a Roof-Top Antenna : It might make the
Antenna work/perform better.
.
=IF= I had a "Sloper" Antenna with a Down-Wire running
down the side of a House; I try several things with the
Down-Wire :
* Run/Route the Down-Wire directly on the Surface
of the Building.
* Run/Route the Down-Wire about a Foot 'Off' the
Surface of the Building.
* Not Grounding the Down-Wire
* Grounding the Down-Wire
* and using an Extended Down-Wire Laying Under
the "Sloper" Antenna's Wire Antenna Element
Trying to find which Works best for me in this
specific Location; and when I built a another
"Sloper" Antenna in a different Location trying
all the combinations all over again; and not
necessary expecting the same results.
.
.
RHF
- - All antennas are dipoles.
Dave you did not address the Question :
WHY ? Does The SWL "Sloper" Antenna Have A 'Down-Wire' ?
Dave : ? Care to Comment ?
.
- Many/Most of the SWL "Sloper" Antennas do appear
- physically to be more like an inverted bent "L" shaped
- {off-center-fed} Dipole Antennas :
- http://www.alphadeltacom.com/images/dxswl.gif
- http://www.hamradio.com/images_manuf/H0-005126A.jpg
-
- * Especially when the shorter Vertical 'Half' Down-Wire
- is NOT Grounded.
- http://t2k.wdfiles.com/local--files/shortwave-receiving-antennas/supe...
-
- * The Longer Sloping 'Half' sloping off and down
- at an angle.
- http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/0013.jpg
-
- ? As A Matter Of Fact ! . . . ? WHY ?
- Does The SWL "Sloper" Antenna Have A 'Down-Wire' ?
-
- iane ~ RHF
- .
- .
- Many Types and Configurations of "Sloper" Antennas
- http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/087a96ab218b8103
- .
- Designing and Laying-Out a Better SWL "Sloper" Antenna
- for Shortwave Radio Listeners
- http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/2e6ea9f54a2bb3b0
- .
- .
dave
whether you like it or not, unless you put a choke in the line at the
feedpoint. A half sloper is a 1/4 wave vertical and it requires a
proper system of ground radials.
dave
arthr...@webtv.net
> http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/5148.html
A long wire antenna of 50 feet + lead-in can be built for at least
half that price . Plus all the fun and pride that goes with it .