Is chemo difficult for the dog?
Mike
with lymphoma. My wife and I are devastated over this and we haven't
told our two teenage kids yet, of which my 16 year old daughter is
especially attached to Sonny.
Our options are steroid shots which should allow the dog to live for
another 4 to 6 months, or chemo which they estimate 9 to 12 months. I
love my dog and want what's best for him. We are strapped
financially, so the $1800.00 or more for chemo will really hurt.
Another issue is I'm wondering how difficult the chemo is on the dog.
I hear varying opinions on chemo, including dogs don't have a problem
with it at all, to the treatments nearly killing some dogs.
So I guess the main question is "How difficult is the chemo on the
dog?" Would steroids keem him comfortable so we can have him for a
few precious months?
Thanks for any opinions you can offer.
Regards,
Mike
crosem
cancer, but give him a few more months. Chemotherapy hits dogs as hard as
it hits people (I have had chemotherapy). I would not pay $1800 for my dog
to have a few more months, as those months would be filled with fatigue and
feeling lousy.
Choose the other option and let him go...I know it's very hard, but since
you love him, you want what's easiest for him...
"Mike" <mikem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d9add1ed.03053...@posting.google.com...
ZPL
not make the dog go through that. Not for the possibility of just a
handful of months.
You heard from a person that has gone through chemo. In all honesty, unless
there was a high percentage chance of long term remission, I wouldn't put
myself through it.
"Mike" <mikem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d9add1ed.03053...@posting.google.com...
crosem
it was worth it!
"ZPL" <Z...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:kHQBa.171950$3n5....@news2.central.cox.net...
ZPL
"crosem" <cro...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:fJQBa.57$1f4.5...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
R and S
I've also gone thru chemo, and ironically enough, my GSD was diagnosed
with lymphoma last December. We chose to give him chemo because the
oncologist stressed! that it was not like a human going thru chemo. The drug
dosages are not the same because they do not try for a "cure", but to try to
get a long remission. Our dog had very little side effects- one time he had
cystitis which lasted about 2 weeks. Another time he had very slight
diarrhea. That was the extent of his side effects.
Unfortunately we were only able to give our dog 5 extra months. His
lymphoma was very resistent to the chemo which is not the usual case. There
is a yahoo support group that I joined when my dog was first diagnosed to
see how others were handling it. There have been several long term survivors
in that group. You might want to do a search and type canine lymphoma..there
is a great website that features Clondike. She lived 3 years after her
initial diagnosis.
If I can help you with any specific questions, please ask. Also, I'm
terribly sorry for your pup's diagnosis. It's a shock....I won't forget the
ride home in the car with our dog- he was the love of our life and although
he's been gone for a month, I still miss him terribly.
Sue
sighthounds etc.
>You have already learned that the chemotherapy will not cure your dog of
>cancer, but give him a few more months. Chemotherapy hits dogs as hard as
>it hits people (I have had chemotherapy). I would not pay $1800 for my dog
>to have a few more months, as those months would be filled with fatigue and
>feeling lousy.
>Choose the other option and let him go...I know it's very hard, but since
>you love him, you want what's easiest for him...
Chemotherapy does *not* hit dogs as hard as it hits people. We have
an 8 year-old Greyhound that was given to our rescue because he got
into the garbage; within two months of coming to us, he was diagnosed
with thyroid cancer (half the gland was removed) and then lymphoma.
Prognosis with chemo was 16-18 months, and after 6 months he's in
remission and doing very well. He's usually a little tired the day
after a treatment, but his months are most definitely not filled with
fatigue, he does not feel lousy, and he loves going to the vet. He is
not an exception, either; though dogs are all individuals and some may
have more difficulty with treatment than others, veterinary
oncologists will tell you that most dogs tolerate chemotherapy well.
If you can't afford it, you can't afford it, and that's fine, but
don't make a decision on the mistaken belief that your dog will suffer
during his final months if you opt for chemotherapy.
Sally Hennessey
sighthounds etc.
>If the chemo does not give the possibility of long term remission, I would
>not make the dog go through that. Not for the possibility of just a
>handful of months.
Average survival time for a dog with lymphoma, with chemotherapy, is
16 - 18 months. For a lot of people, that's not a handful of months.
And it's quality time.
>You heard from a person that has gone through chemo. In all honesty, unless
>there was a high percentage chance of long term remission, I wouldn't put
>myself through it.
Dogs aren't people, though, and dogs tolerate chemo better than people
do.
Sally Hennessey
Pennie
>So I guess the main question is "How difficult is the chemo on the
>dog?" Would steroids keem him comfortable so we can have him for a
>few precious months?
Hi Mike,
I'm so sorry to hear about the diagnosis for your lab. You've got a
tough choice ahead of you. =(
If it's any consolation my dog went through chemo back in Sept. (she
has osteosarcoma). She had no side effects whatsoever!! No losing
hair, no diarrhea, no throwing up...she wasn't even lethargic. I
began kidding her oncologist that there must be water in the IV
instead of the chemo drugs. It's been 9 months now (they had given her
6) and she's still going strong.
Working in an animal hospital I've also seen other dogs who have gone
through chemo with no ill side effects (it's not like it is with
humans). In all honesty I haven't seen one bad reaction to the 5 or 6
dogs I've seen go through it.
Here are a couple of web sites telling you about chemo. and dogs:
http://www.treshanley.com/CIC/chemo.html
Tells you the different drugs used in chemo (Molly had Cisplatin)
http://www.labbies.com/cancer3.htm#Principles
Great page about treating canines with cancer.
http://www.oncolink.com/types/article.cfm?c=22&s=69&ss=548&id=5997
A site about lymphoma in dogs
http://www.labbies.com/cancer2.htm#Lymphoma
Another site about lymphoma
Hope this helps...and good luck with whatever you decide. Please keep
us posted.
Pennie
Let Food Be Our Medicine.
-Hippocrates
Kyler Laird
>So I guess the main question is "How difficult is the chemo on the
>dog?"
For Garbo, it wasn't bad at all until his last treatments
and then it wasn't horrible. I'd gone through chemo
recently for my father and was expecting worse.
We were told that chemo for dogs is typically an attempt
to lessen not eliminate cancer, so it's not nearly as
aggressive as that for humans.
--kyler
Nike22394
oncologists and you will find out that it is NOT the same for dogs on chemo as
it is for people.Very few breeds lose their hair, and even if the chemo does
cause nausea in the dog, it rarely lasts long.
My dog was on various chemos. She had no side effects from lomustine or
vincristine. She threw up 2X from vinblastine. She also took tagamet.
The one thing that DOES occur in dogs as in humans, is that chemo zaps the
white cells. Finding the exact dosage is a crap shoot, unfortunately.
As for not spending the money if your dog will only live a few more months,
first of all, you have no way of knowing that. There is always a range that the
dog may live through, and often dogs surprise you and live way beyond what was
expected. Of course, the reverse may happen, too, as it did in my case.
The money is a personal decison, and no one has the right to tell you it's not
worth spending if the dog may only live a few months. My dog lived for 5 1/2
months from diagnosis to death. She was expected to live from 9-12 months, but,
in her case, the chemo did a number on her white count.
That being said, she had a wonderful 5 1/2 months, with the exception of the
last few days. She hiked, played in Central Park, spent quality time with her
best dog buddy, and with me. She often even walked the 8 mile round trip to the
oncologist, who she adored. If it were such an awful experience, she would not
have wanted to go near his office.
I have no regrets about the amount of money I spent. It was substantial, and I
am on a very fixed income. But she was a major part of my life, and as long as
I knew she could still have a quality life, I was more than willing to spend
the money.
Sandi
crosem
than expected?
hmmm....
"Nike22394" <nike...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030601191407...@mb-m10.aol.com...
CCDOX
>than expected?
>
>hmmm....
>
You are *way* off base suggesting that walking caused the dog to die earlier
than expected. When Nike was up to walking, she walked. When she wasn't up to
walking, she was carried - the entire 8 miles. The vet had said to follow
Nike's lead as far as what she was able to do. When she visited us, she played
with C.C. and all of C.C.'s toys. She walked, she licked everyone, she ate, she
enjoyed life. Sandi would have sold her soul if it would have saved Nike, and
you owe Sandi a huge apology for your vile inference.
Dorothy, owned by C.C., a very spoiled dachshund
Gwen Watson
ZPL wrote:
> If the chemo does not give the possibility of long term remission, I would
> not make the dog go through that. Not for the possibility of just a
> handful of months.
>
> You heard from a person that has gone through chemo. In all honesty, unless
> there was a high percentage chance of long term remission, I wouldn't put
> myself through it.
>
You and me both. Of course either of us could be that 1% that actually
pulled through against all odds. I don't think either of us could say
what would we would do until we were actually walking in the shoes.
It is often easy to say you wouldn't do something, until death is
actually knocking at your door. Seems as though many times
all what you thought you would do in such situations changes.
But I do feel the same way as what you stated above at this moment.
Gwen
Mike
search in hope of getting other people's opinions. The general
concensus agrees with yours in that the dog tolerates chemo resonably
well.
As for the money, well it's not a case of if I choose or want to spend
the money. The relaxed immigration policies of the 90's resulted in a
lot of foreigners entering the country on work visas. When high tech
slowed down, many Americans were layed off their jobs while the
foreign workers were kept on. This happened to me. When I was able
to get work again, it lasted about a year before the work of my entire
group was "offshored" to India.
Things are not like they were in your day. Back then, people were able
to work their entire lives and retire comfortably. These days, many
people over 40 but not yet retired are using their retirement accounts
and kid's college savings just to pay the mortgage and grocery bill.
As for "very fixed income", well my mother is on a fixed income and
barely makes ends meet. But more commonly, being on a fixed income
means driving a Lincoln or Crown Vic and having lunch at the most
expensive restaurants just about everyday.
So if it sounds like I'm just being cheap, you're completely wrong.
If it makes you feel better, we've decided to sell off a prized
possesion so my dog can get the chemo treatments he needs. He's been
good to us and the least I can do is get him whatever treatment I can
scrape up the money for.
nike...@aol.com (Nike22394) wrote in message news:<20030601191407...@mb-m10.aol.com>...
Mike
advice. Since I'm out of work, we've decided to sell off a few things
and get my dog the chemo treatments he needs. He's been such a
blessing to my family and we've enjoyed having him so much that I feel
it's well worth the sacrifice.
He just got his first treatment tuesday and so far so good. I've got
my fingers crossed that this will work well for him.
My only concern is what the total cost will be. Every vet we've been
to has given us an estimate for a visit, and then the final bill would
usually end up at least 30% more. I've also heard horror stories of
certain vets recommending treatments and surgeries that were not
needed just to increase their bottom line. Your responses to my
posting have eased my fears about this and hopefully the treatments
will not cost much more than estimated.
So, many thanks for the words of encouragement and I wish you the best
of health and happiness to your families and pets.
Regards,
Mike
mikem...@aol.com (Mike) wrote in message news:<d9add1ed.03053...@posting.google.com>...
sighthounds etc.
>Hi All. Just a quick message to thank you for your opinions and
>advice. Since I'm out of work, we've decided to sell off a few things
>and get my dog the chemo treatments he needs. He's been such a
>blessing to my family and we've enjoyed having him so much that I feel
>it's well worth the sacrifice.
>
>He just got his first treatment tuesday and so far so good. I've got
>my fingers crossed that this will work well for him.
>
>My only concern is what the total cost will be. Every vet we've been
>to has given us an estimate for a visit, and then the final bill would
>usually end up at least 30% more. I've also heard horror stories of
>certain vets recommending treatments and surgeries that were not
>needed just to increase their bottom line. Your responses to my
>posting have eased my fears about this and hopefully the treatments
>will not cost much more than estimated.
>
>So, many thanks for the words of encouragement and I wish you the best
>of health and happiness to your families and pets.
Different vets seem to have different protocols for treating lymphoma.
With ours, most of the cost was incurred during the first couple of
months, when Jack had weekly chemotherapy for 6 or 8 weeks. Then he
went onto a regimen of oral chemo and prenisone with IV chemo
"boosters" every 6 weeks, and that part of the treatment is easier to
budget for. After about 7 months, Jack is doing very well, still in
remission and enjoying life very much. I hope your dog has good
results too. Best wishes to you and yours.
Sally Hennessey
Nike22394
carefully for signs of him not acting like he usualy does. Call the vet if
you're unsure - don't feel like you're being ridiculous or wasting the vet's
time.
(After several chemo treatments over several weeks, one morning my dog
suddenly didn't want to get out of bed or have breakfast. Turned out the chemo
had accumulated a bit too much in her system. She got weak and dehydrated very
suddenly. I called and he said to bring her in. A few days later she was ok
again, but had I not called, she would not have made it thru that day.)
Also, don't be afraid to ask the vet if he can "work with you a bit" on the
financial aspect. Few vets ever offer, but you might be surprised at how many
vets will give you a break if you ask.
If your dog needs to get any prescription stuff, ask the vet to give you a
prescription and have it filled at a pharmacy. It is much cheaper.
Good luck.
Sandi
Mike
treatment. He seemed more lethargic than usual after his injection
Tuesday, and was not eating. We called the vet and she said that it's
the side effects of the chemo and to just keep an eye on him. We
should have followed our instincts and brought him into the emergency
clinic. By yesterday morning, he seemed to be getting worse so we
rushed him to the vet. Sonny had suffered a severe case of septic
shock. They had him on IV's and and all that, and there was a brief
improvement in his condition followed by a rapid decline. The vet
said his chances of survival were not good and he was suffering, so I
came to grips with the unthinkable and requested he be put down. The
vet giving the chemo treatments said he had never seen anything so
quick and devastating in his 25 years of practice. Personally, I
think someone made a mistake in the treatment but there's no point in
dwelling on that.
It's a horrible shock to my whole family and we're taking it pretty
hard. I don't think we'll ever get another dog again after going
through this.
Would I do it over again? Absolutely not! Although Sonny was
responding well to the chemo and pregnazone, he was quiet and not his
usual high spirited self during the treatments. He didn't seem happy
at all. The suffering he went through at the end was absolutely
horrible. I realize now that to put him through that to gain 6 months
or so over what the cortizone treatments would have given him just
wasn't in his best interest. He was a strong dog, and the impression
I got was that he would glide right through these treatments. If
there was a chance of a permanent cure, I would have gone the chemo
route without a second thought, but just to gain a 9 to 12 months, it
really wasn't a good idea.
In all fairness, what happened to Sonny was unusual. But I still
wouldn't do it again.
Sonny was a beloved dog who lived a short, but wonderful life. He
captured our hearts and was my best friend. We will all miss him very
much.
mikem...@aol.com (Mike) wrote in message news:<d9add1ed.03053...@posting.google.com>...
ZPL
"Mike" <mikem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d9add1ed.03061...@posting.google.com...
Gwen Watson
Mike wrote:
> Sonny was a beloved dog who lived a short, but wonderful life. He
> captured our hearts and was my best friend. We will all miss him very
> much.
>
I am so sorry to read this. My deepest sympathy goes to you and
your family. Dogs do have a way of capturing our hearts and it
is always very hard to lose what is so dear to you. Keep in mind
he will forever live in your heart.
Gwen
