Opposition Reflex
Paul E. Schoen
contexts. After a brief search I found the following:
http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/distano1.htm
He adds a different twist to what seems to be normally taught, using two
collars and a good-guy / bad-guy approach. He also describes a method where
corrections are purposely done in a way that the dog does not see them
coming from his handler, so the opposition reflex is not directed back at
the one seeking control. He cites Kohler (1962).
http://www.superdog.com/advice-pages/forge.html
(mostly a discussion on collars)
http://www.amazingdogtrainingman.com/audio/opposition.htm
This is an audio clip that explains this in common sense terms. He
recommends a GL, and also reward-based cooperative methods.
I think Jerry would benefit from having a similar web page with audio
clips. He suggests a text-to-voice converter. This would be much better.
http://humanresources.about.com/od/leadership/a/decision_making.htm
This is not exactly about opposition reflex, but I found it interesting. It
touches on how people make decisions and the role of solid training as a
foundation for effective handling of emergencies.
http://www.pet-manual.co.uk/showthread/t-1532.html
I was surprised to find many hits (www.dogpile.com) referenced Jerry's
postings, and it seems like this website is devoted to his manual! It is a
series of archives, without dates, but interesting.
==========
Recently I think I have observed the opposition reflex in non-physical,
human terms. For instance, when one my posts opposed someones predetermined
mindset, I would often see a reflexive response in direct opposition to
what they interpreted it to mean. In turn, their direct opposition to my
point of view, or their special spin or erroneous comments, triggered my
opposition reflex and sometimes induced me to reply hastily. Knowing this,
I can use it to my advantage, or at least understand why people (or
animals) act as they do.
I am surprised that Jerry does not seem to recognize or use this in his
online efforts to convince people to try his methods. I'm sure he has
written off most everyone here, but his extensive abusive attacks are sure
to trigger an opposition reflex, resulting in emotionally charged responses
and no dialog.
I see the opposition reflex often with Muttley. I'll try to use it, or
reduce its occurrance, as I continue with his training.
Paul and Muttley
diddy
<pst...@smart.net> whittled the following words:
>
> I see the opposition reflex often with Muttley. I'll try to use it, or
> reduce its occurrance, as I continue with his training.
>
> Paul and Muttley
>
Your are polluting Jerry's method by interjecting those of others, trashing
the experiment
Handsome Jack Morrison
<pst...@smart.net> wrote:
[...]
>Recently I think I have observed the opposition reflex in non-physical,
>human terms. For instance, when one my posts opposed someones predetermined
>mindset, I would often see a reflexive response in direct opposition to
>what they interpreted it to mean.
That's not what you're seeing at all, El Stupido! What you're seeing
is called the Corrective Reflex.
For example, when an irresponsible drunk driver slams into a telephone
pole at 80 mph, he experiences what's called a "Corrective Reflex."
Or when some doofus tries to steal money from certain old farts (like
those noted in the links below), they get pounded into the ground, or
shot.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286847,00.html
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-628subway,0,1807670.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
Again, those are examples of the "Corrective Reflex" in action! It's
a Darwinian thing, and we need much more of it.
And since on the Internet we can't really physically pound you into
the ground, or shoot you, whenever you say or do stupid, irresponsible
things (which you do pretty much every time you open your big fat
mouth or walk a step), we do the next best thing we can and throw
barbs at you.
It's not as much fun as pounding you into the ground or shooting you
would be, but it'll have to do, and it's FREE!
And as soon as we can afford to hire a ring-girl, we're going to raise
ticket prices!
>I am surprised that Jerry
Speaking of Jerry, aren't you due for another lesson with him yet?
#1B?
Yo, Jerry!
Wherrrrre aaaaare yooooou?
Oh, Jerrrrrrrrrr-reeeey!
"Shane--come back, Shane!"
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
Yo, Judith! Watch this: "When your government becomes your doctor"
http://sickandsickermovie.com/
Don't mess with old farts (especially if they've ever worn the Eagle, Globe & Anchor)!
Part One:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286847,00.html
Part Two:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-628subway,0,1807670.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
Free condoms for Mexico!
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=062807C
Immigration bill goes down in flames! Yip-ee-i-oh, yip-ee-i-ay!
Freakin' arrogant putas. <spit>
"Cloture Passes and I Re-assess My Patriotism"
http://shotsacrossthebow.com/archives/002724.html
Control-freaks from the "reality-based" community are at it again!
http://www.examiner.com/a-801194%7EGet_your_hands_off_our_talk_radio.html
Way to go, Vikings!
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/06/for-mohammedan-free-denmark.html
United States 2, Mexico 1
Too bad, muchachas putierrez! Better luck next time, putas!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/sports/soccer/25goldcup.html?_r=2&ref=soccer&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:
Hey, hey, hey! This is no holds barred fighting!
Schoen can do whatever he wants to do!
So can Howe!
May the best doofus win!
Yee-hah!
Paul E. Schoen
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns995F9AC...@216.196.97.142...
No. For now I am gleaning and processing information, but attempting to
follow Jerry's method as closely as possible. The opposition reflex is
specifically addressed in his manual, and I am adding nothing new to my
training. A deeper base of understanding is always helpful.
I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises today, in several
locations, but the result is always that he stops pulling, sits, lays down,
or rolls around, without looking at me. This continues whether or not I
praise him or "engage him in conversation". Only when I tell him we will
continue on the walk, or otherwise provide him with direction, does he
briefly pay attention, and then go where he wants, except for changes I
choose to make.
Paul and Muttley
Marcel Beaudoin
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises today, in several
> locations, but the result is always that he stops pulling, sits, lays
> down, or rolls around, without looking at me. This continues whether
> or not I praise him or "engage him in conversation". Only when I tell
> him we will continue on the walk, or otherwise provide him with
> direction, does he briefly pay attention, and then go where he wants,
> except for changes I choose to make.
Muttley's training of you is coming along nicely I see.
--
Marcel and Moogli
Handsome Jack Morrison
<pst...@smart.net> wrote:
[...]
>> Your are polluting Jerry's method by interjecting those of others,
>> trashing
>> the experiment
>
>No. For now I am gleaning and processing information,
...and coming up with your usual results - nothing!
Nada. Zilch. Zero.
And that's using a "guaranteed 100% fool-proof" method!
Imagine the horror, had it only been, say, 75% fool-proof?
[...]
>I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises today, in several
>locations, but the result is always that he stops pulling, sits, lays down,
>or rolls around, without looking at me.
Hell, 99% of all dogs can do that, and without having to study so
hard!
But please don't give up yet!
Please, please don't!
We've sold thousands of tickets to this match, the folks at AOLBB are
just now getting to their seats, and even Paris Hilton has promised to
stop by and show us her beaver!
Don't give up!!!
Melinda Shore
And turning it into compost, apparently.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
Paul E. Schoen
"Marcel Beaudoin" <marcel....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns995FA1ED82B57...@130.133.1.4...
Once again, I repeated the exercise, for about four minutes in each of four
locations. He pulled as usual to the first location, and it took some
effort to have him stop on a loose leash, within 10-20 seconds or so. At
one point he glanced at me, and I said "Good boy, Muttley", and he started
moving to resume his walk. He was facing away, so I could not see his eyes
roll, or hear him mutter under his breath. But he sat down, looking away,
and further praise produced no response. He did his usual rolls and
occasional wandering, but mostly stood or sat there. He responded on my
second announcement that we would continue our walk, and we went a short
way before repeating the exercise in another area. After four repetitions
of this, he seemed more manageable, and did LLW on our way back to the
house. As we got there, a neighbor from down the street passed by, and
Muttley was very attentive. I exchanged greetings with him, and he
continued on his way. Muttley pulled a little to get closer, but was
certainly not clawing his way to get to him. He would not come back when
called (that is a future lesson), but after a brief pat on his head he
turned around and went into the house.
None of this behavior is particularly new or surprising, but as part of a
specific and consistent training exercise, it may be showing some
improvement.
Stay tuned. You people are so easily amused!
Paul and Muttley
TheSincerelyIncrediblyFreakinInsanelySimplyAmazingGrandPuppyChildPussyBirdyGoatFerettAndHorseyWizard
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:4686a942$0$19123$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
>
> I have come to understand and observe the opposition reflex in various
> contexts.
You've seen it every time you've tried to
force CON-TROLl of Muttley under janet's
EXXXPERT instruction <{}: ~ ( >
> After a brief search I found the following:
> http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/distano1.htm
That's dr. mark plonsky, professor marshall dermer's pal:
Punishment ALWAYS Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.
Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
NO! into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer of the
Department of ANAL-ytic Behavior at UofWI, pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.=AD),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee,
WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING
On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
26 From: Marshall Dermer -
Date: Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@posting.google.com>
mattburns...@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many
of us filter posts with this term. The term indicates
that the post is about Jerry.
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently,
I urge newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts
of the rpdb regulars from whom I have learned much.
They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.
*(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG
POSTED CASE HISTORIES of INCURABLE
MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN INTIMIDATIN
an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior
Analysis Specialty/ Department of Psychology/
University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee,
WI 53201
der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But
if I am only for myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> >tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes: However, there have been
> >incidences where she has growled and snapped at us...for instance, when
> >we were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
>
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps,
> IMMEDIATELY pick her up ONLY by the skin at
> the back of her neck, for 5 sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say
> "NO!" and hold her mouth shut for say 15 sec. If she so snaps that you
> can't do the
> above then you will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with pennies, or a tug on
> the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holing
her mouth shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral
function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy
by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency
of the biting decreases then you will have achieved
too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has
decreased; and two, you have established "No"
as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********
IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?
************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/12/21
Subject: Re: Doc Dermer's offer
In article <tfR74.1$W64....@typhoon3.tampabay.rr.com> "Jerry Howe"
<j...@cfl.rr.com> writes:
> Lemme aks you sumthin, doc? When you punish
> your dog, do you find that he masturbates more frequently after such
> instances? (referring to your post about your dog using a pillow to get
> himself off)
First, I punish behavior, not dogs.
Second, I rarely issue corrections.
Third, as time goes on my dog uses
the pillow less frequently.
I would say he uses it about once a month.
Finally, I'm not really concerned about my dog's
masturbating; I don't find such dog behavior
offensive.
Eating dog poop, for me, is another story.
And the rate of that behavior has also
diminished with time. :-)
--Marshall
------------------------------------------
Coprophagia is CAUSED by your HOWEsbreakin methods.
LIKE THIS:
From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/07/15
Subject: Re: need help
In article <IDnj3.14478$y92.8...@news.rdc1.ct.home.com> "Suzee"
<suz...@home.com> writes:
> Hi, I need help with a problem I am having with
> my 9 month old Maltese. She is crated and in
> the morning when I let her out side she urinates,
> but then does nothing else. I let her in the house
> and she is fine till later I see her poops in the corner of my living
> room. She loves to poop in the house.
> I have tried re crating her when she comes back in, waiting a while and
> taking her back out. She sniffs everywhere but doesn't do anything.
> I really praise her when she goes outside and after urinating she seems to
> look at me for approval.
>any advise would be appreciated. Thanks, Suez... aka Shayna's mom
Reinforcing a dog for eliminating outdoors is
surely the "way to go," but how do you know
that praise is an effective reward???
Why not try this. Find something that your dog
REALLY likes (our Havanese goes crazy over
popcorn!), and when Shayna (A cute Yiddish
name for a pooch.) eliminates immediately say
"good girl" and offer her the reward.
In this way you will be using a strong reward to
consequate her eliminating outdoors and you will
be establishing "good girl" as a conditioned reinforcer.
If I caught my dog IN THE ACT of eliminating
indoors, I would say "bad dog" and give him a
stern lecture as I took him outdoors where I
would praise him even if he did not poop.
If he eliminated indoors and I did not see it, I
would say "bad trainer" and give myself a
stern lecture for not watching my dog more closely.
Best wishes, Marshall
--------------------
SEE??
You can EXXXTINGUISH coprophagia NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOIN EVERY THING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE
you teach, professor.
Here's FIVE CASE HISTORIES of coprophagia
EXXXTINGUISHED NEARLY INSTANTLY:
<SNIP CASE HISTORIES>
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People
Should Come To Their Senses And Support Your
Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall
Dermer, Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
----------------
> He adds a different twist to what seems to be
> normally taught, using two collars and a good-
> guy / bad-guy approach.
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat,
Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog,
Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horse
Training Method Manual SPECIFICALLY
cautions AGAINST reading "other sources of
information":
"There are many more reasons that I cannot endorse
any books or publications regarding training tips. I
highly recommend NOT reading other training guides
until you fully comprehend this method."
You've been readin from the website of dr. mark
plonsky, a dog abuser and coward, a professor of
abuse, not love, trust, respect and understanding,
who's citing a Nazi Fascist SHOCK and PRONGED
SPIKED PINCH CHOKE collar trainer who's citing
the MONSTER, william koehler:
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the
dog's great capacity for love was the key to shaping
doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention
are both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even
so humorless a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like
the Breland's whose work, "The Misbehavior of Organisms"
demonstrate the utility of your methods and their deep
roots in scientific (as opposed to commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
------------
Abuse / fear / aggression / hyperactivity / shyness / suicide
attempts AIN'T a chemical imbalance or genetic problem,
it's a SPIRITUAL problem,
passed on
from WON generatiHOWEN of abuser
to the next,
like the 100th monkey washin fruit in the stream;
After a while it's not just NORMAL, it's OBLIGATORY.
To do otherWIZE would be DISRESPECTFUL
of your parental teachins.
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME
Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear,
Hate, Reflex, Self Will,
Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment,
Guilt, Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness, Aversion,
Attraction, Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion, Change,
Permanence, Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition,
And
Parental / ReligiHOWES / Societal Conditioning.
YOU ARE THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.
It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.
If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.
The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.
He who perceives that the two are one
knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then?
The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >
--------------------------
> He also describes a method where corrections are purposely done in a way
> that the dog does
> not see them coming from his handler, so the
> opposition reflex is not directed back at the one
> seeking control. He cites Kohler (1962).
Paul, are you so freakin ignorant or arrogant
that you can believe your dog DON'T KNOW
WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR HURTIN HIM?
All he gotta do is look arHOWEND to see WHO
GOT HANDS to jerk an choke or shock him!:
Dr. Fetko: "In Dog Training, Jerk Is A Noun, Not A Verb."
Dr. Fetko's Philosophy (http://www.drdog.com)
Dogs Are Like Wet Cement - Whatever TouchesThem
Makes A Lasting Impression. So Please Make Every
Touch Loving."
Date: 2002-03-20 01:12:23 PST
HOWEDY People,
You're gonna love this:
Some words from Dr. Fetko:
"In dog training, Jerk is a noun, not a verb."
We're repeatedly told that dog training requires
jerking the dog's chain choke - or even pinch -
collar and to lift and shake them by the scruff of
their necks and pin them on their backs.
I've trained dogs (and many other species) all over the
world for decades and was taught to use those methods nearly 40 years ago.
(That's how up-to-date they are!)
But those methods are NOT necessary, nor as effective
or quick as gentler methods.
I haven't jerked a collar in 20 years! All good training
is based upon trust and respect; how does a social
mammal trust or respect someone who jerks, hangs
or pins it?"
Dr. Fetko's Philosophy:
http://www.drdog.com/
Dogs are like wet cement - whatever touches them
makes a lasting impression. So please make every
touch loving.
The following quotes are from Dr. Dennis Fetko,
noted veterinary behaviorist:
ABUSE
While testifying at a California State Senate Hearing,
I was asked to define abuse. One I offered: Unnecessary
physical or psychological force in excess of what is
required to achieve the goal. This, and others I stated,
were accepted by the entire Hearing panel.
I have disabled clients and I've known severe physical
compromise. If one can train dogs successfully without
jerking collars, pinning, hanging or scruffing, then doing
so is, by definition, abuse. Why pay someone to abuse
your dog?
Besides, must you really pay for that level of input?
Like you'd never have thought of that on your own!
When 88% of the adult dogs I'm paid to train have already
been professionally trained, something's wrong. You pay
good money for professional advice; get it.
LEGAL WORK
Formerly San Diego's Dispute Resolutions Officer,
I've qualified in criminal and civil courts representing
both plaintiffs and defendants as an expert in animal
training and behavior, abuse, aggression, "collecting"
and animal nuisances dozens of times for many years.
I'm in legal demand because, with my background and
extensive hands-on experience, my testimony is very
difficult to rebut. Contact me if you, your attorney or
someone you know is ever involved in a legal case
involving animals."
And Jerry also HAS similar expert witness testimony
experience, and Jerry WILL TESTIFY for FREE. Call
Jerry toll free 1-888-WITSEND.
Dr. Fetko's TRAINING METHODS:
My methods are practical, gentle and successful
because working with animals is not academic or
secondary to me, it's WHAT I DO!
Like you, I hear and read strange things about animals,
training and behavior. But having done it full time for
many years, I know what works.
Methods have effects no one talks about. I say: "Jerk is a
noun, not a verb" and "Nothing with a pulse belongs on a
chain" because I haven't jerked collars or used chains in
decades - and I do this every day, sometimes with very
unfriendly dogs! Have you ever been to Sea World?
Who jerks Shamu?
If we can train huge feral predators to a high level of
safe performance without active physical reprimands,
HOW DARE WE tell you to jerk your dog's neck?!
Ever notice that people with "bad memories" know
all the words to dozens of songs? That's because
music and singing are FUN!
A fun, playful, relaxed attitude is very conducive to
learning. Why do we remember the alphabet forever
but forget the times table immediately after the exam?
Because we SANG, PLAYED and ACTED OUT
the alphabet! It was FUN and GAMES!
Then why make dog training hard, negative work
for your dog? Our own experience (and much research)
clearly demonstrates that a harsh approach inhibits
learning and retards memory, yet many people jerk
lessons into dogs and drill them until they rebel.
WHY? (sounds just like Jerry so far...)
Anyone who doesn't know the difference between a
boss and a bully shouldn't touch anything with a pulse.
We've all had bad experiences with bullies; why pay
someone to bully your dog and, even worse, make you
do so? (sounds a little light compared to Jerry... Jerry's
gonna put you outta business.)
"FETKOISMS"
You'll read phrases my clients and listeners call
"Fetkoisms" scattered throughout this site. Periodically
I'll explain what they mean and how they evolved. The
point is that everything you see here is based upon vast
hands-on experience and hard science.
"In dog training, Jerk is a noun, not a verb."
We're repeatedly told that dog training requires jerking
the dog's chain choke - or even pinch - collar and to lift
and shake them by the scruff of their necks and pin them
on their backs. I've trained dogs (and many other species)
all over the world for decades and was taught to use those
methods nearly 40 years ago. (That's how up-to-date they
are!)
But those methods are NOT necessary, nor as effective
or quick as gentler methods. I haven't jerked a collar in
20 years!
All good training is based upon trust and respect;
how does a social mammal trust or respect someone
who jerks, hangs or pins it?
If you take a dog through training and it's much
better on lead than off it, WHY? It's the same you,
the same dog and the same command; why is it
better on lead than loose? The main reason is that
most training teaches the dog to fear the equipment,
not respect the handler.
"Without the equipment, you can't do bad
things to me - so leave a note!"
The following is from an article in 'doggy door
to canine behavior':
"But now, with the puppy, he growls worse than he
ever did at Rio and is constantly showing his teeth,
growling and snarling (only has tried to nip once or
twice and has been severely scolded - picked up by
the scruff, stared into his eyes, shook him, pinned
him down to the ground and growled at him) No
matter what we do, he will not quit growling at this
poor puppy."
Well then THINK ALLELOMIMETIC BEHAVIOR!
VIOLENCE IS LEARNED.
And their "experts" reply:
It is important that you do not allow your emotions to
intervene with Riot's disobedience. No more scruff shakes,
harsh words, etc. Just say what you mean and then expect him to do it. If he
doesn't comply - then "help" him do it.
That's scruff shake, boss. I've got lots moore for ya:
From The Desk Of The Thugs At:
Dog Owner's Guide
8461 Denallen Dr.
Cincinnati, OH 45255
"You must never permit him to growl or snap. If he does, a
severe scruff shake is necessary, followed by no attention
from you for 10 to 15 minutes.
The scruff is the loose skin around the dog's neck. If
your pet growls or snaps and you are not afraid to
handle him, grab him firmly by the scruff with both
hands, stare him in the eyes, and shake him.
Then put him in his crate for 15-20 minutes and ignore him."
> > I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very persistant,
> > it can be appropriate to take hold of the loose skin at the back of the
> > neck and give a slight shake to the *skin*".
Or moore like this as taught by one of our university
"behaviorists":
"The scruff shake is another way of correcting the more
persistent aggressive pet. Look into the dog's eyes with a
hard, direct stare, while holding its two cheeks in your
hands.
Elevate and shake the puppy (soft at first ... then a
little harder each time the correction must be repeated.)
Do not let go or break eye contact until the dog diverts
his gaze."
And then the dirtbag has the nerve to continue:
"Puppyhood is an important developmental period.
During this state the fragile little critter is basically
innocent."
And then the dirtbag's arrogant enough to sign:
*Joan M. Locher holds a MS. in Biology and is certified in
vocational dog training and canine behavior counseling. Ms. Locher is a
member of the Board of Directors of the National Association of Obedience
Instructors. Her business,
Pets Control, specializes in canine training programs
and problem behavior counseling."
We'll see HOWE long that lasts... once I get ahold of the
bunch of our "dog training experts" and "rescues" like I did
rpdb... BWWWWAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! You're outta business, folks... Get a
new career.
> But YES - this is definitely what I meant.
INDEED. You're a cowardly, lying, dog abusing
Thug, boss. You KILL dogs for a living because
you don't know HOWE to handle and train them.
See the thread "interested in hearing."
OR YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY, Paulie.
> > Janet's not talking about actually shaking the puppy, which I think we
> > ALL agree is abusive.
I think you've all been proven dog abuing Thugs and
LIARS. That's what I think, only based on your own
QUOTED words.
> Of course.
But of course.
> Janet Boss
And we'll finish with some moore dog abuse from our
universities:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Pamela Mueller, PhD phone 607-255-2884
328 Morrison Hall *
Department of Animal Science FAX 607-255-9829
Cornell University email p...@cornell.edu
Ithaca, NY 14853
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I used a simple negative conditioning (call it punishment)
approach: every time I heard the dog rustling in the litter
box, or if he came running to me so proud with cat litter in
his beard,
I used vocal reprimands (aka loud yelling and screaming)
plus scruff shake followed by isolation in crate.
It only took 3 such episodes to eliminate
the unwanted behavior of litter box scavanging.
And another Thug:
"The second is NO BITE in a loud authoritative tone.
This may be accompanied by a scruff shake (hands on
either side of the head, bring front feet only off ground,
and give a brisk shake).
Ignore again.
The third is to fold the pup's lips in over her teeth as
she mouths you so that she bites herself and learns
that it hurts.
The fourth is, if the pup is really hysterical, crate her
for 15 minutes until she calms down. Do not yell at
the puppy when you do this, because crating is NOT
a punishment.
Use it as a time out for both of you.
Be consistent. React every single time the pup puts her
teeth on you. The first week react when it hurts, the second
week, when it hurts a bit, the third, every time she puts her
mouth on you at all, even if she is gentle.
She will soon get the idea that humans are very fragile,
and that you have to be very careful with them!
Remember that you are going to have to repeat this
about a hundred times to have it sink in, so be patient
and work it-you will be making progress even if you
can't readily see it."
Cathryn Lundberg,
9760 Arrow Route,
Rancho Cucamonga,
California 91730
email cath...@pyrealm.com.
BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~}
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
---------------------------
> http://www.superdog.com/advice-pages/forge.html
> (mostly a discussion on collars)
You CANNOT successfully train a dog using
restrictive / corrective choke shock and intimidation
devices.
http://www.amazingdogtrainingman.com/audio/opposition.htm
>
> This is an audio clip that explains this in common sense terms. He
> recommends a GL, and also reward-
> based cooperative methods.
THAT site is the adam katz / cesar millan MAFIA
web SCAM, Paulie. They INTEND for their STOOGES
to FAIL and they even GUARANTEE their BOOKS
and tapes so's you'll BUY their $400.00 SHOCK COLLAR.
> I think Jerry would benefit from having a similar web page with audio
> clips. He suggests a text-to-voice converter. This would be much better.
HAVE YOU STUDIED YOUR MANUAL
USING A TEXT TO SPEECH READER?
> http://humanresources.about.com/od/leadership/a/decision_making.htm
From that link:
"Predictable errors are preventable errors. And a few
simple techniques, like those below, can help you
steer clear of the most common wrong turns."
From The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child,
Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horse Training Method
Manual:
"The mistakes your dog makes are neither mistakes
nor accidents. They are normal natural innate
instinctive reflexive challenges to your leadership
and authority.
Wits' End Dog Training anticipates these impending
mistakes inherent to each phase of training and
relies on them to turn the tables psychologically
on your pet to convince him you are his appropriate
leader and make him naturally want to do anything
you ask the first time.
The ability to think, rationalize, and solve problems
are learned qualities. Most of your dog's mistakes are
an integral part of learning and are welcomed here, as
an opportunity to teach and provide a positive learning
experience."
Therefore, WE DO NOT AVOID LEARNING OPPORTUNITIES, Paulie <{}: ~ ) >
Perhaps you're havin PROBLEMS not HURTIN Muttley?
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat,
Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard hardly EXXXPECTS
to LEARN abHOWET the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR
from the EXXXPERTS whom HE has IDENTIFIED
EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED, Paulie <{}'; ~ ) >
"A word to the WIZE, is sufficient", Paulie,
The Puppy Wizard's Nana <{}: ~ ) >
> This is not exactly about opposition reflex, but
> I found it interesting. It touches on how people
> make decisions and the role of solid training as a foundation for
> effective handling of emergencies.
>
> http://www.pet-manual.co.uk/showthread/t-1532.html
That's a discussion with marilyn, aka puppyhelp,
who used to post here and at WON time was my
very close friend, till she had to make a decision
to talk turkey with these miserable stinkin lyin dog
abusin punk thug coward mental cases and she
said she "didn't want to make waves" so I waved
BYE BYE to her.
HOWEver, she uses my Method:
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Professional
Trainer, 33 Years Experience.
-------------
Subject: To Jerry
1 From: MarilynRammell
Date: Tues, Aug 3 1999 3:00 am
Email: "MarilynRammell" <marilynramm...@hotmail.com>
Hello Jerry,
A client of mine asked to say a 'big thank you' to you.
They have a 8 month spaniel that they were about to get
rid of.
In fact they had put her into kennels for a few day while
they 'thought it through'. They rang me the day before
they were due to collect her.
She had wrecked their home - everytime they left her she
destroyed something else. The walls, the cabinets, the
carpets, table legs, chair legs, - anything and everything.
They collected her and brought her to me. I gave them some
routine training exercises, and also I wrote out your advice
(I will say at this point that I was not sure about it at all,
and felt a little embarrassed - it was the advice about the
'toy dog that gets the praise for not making a mess'.
Anyway, this was 11 days ago and I heard nothing.
Yesterday they turned up at the new Monday evening
class. They were absolutely delighted.
They told me that after just one attempt, (your toy
suggestion) she 'stopped all the destruction'. They
were in tear of happiness while telling me.
Thank you Jerry.
Respectfully,
Marilyn
----------------
From: Marilyn Rammell (marilynramm...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Separation anxiety (?) help needed!
Date: 1999/10/13
Hi Steve,
Just want to second Jerry's method for dealing with this -
I've suggested it to quite a few clients now and it's worked
'every' time.
It sounds a little 'amusing' I agree, but it really works.
Two of the occasions it's worked have been when the
owners were almost at the point of giving up (one had
actually put their dog into kennels for a few days so
that they could re-decorate the demolition done by the dog).
They rang me while the dog was still in kennels and were
not yet decided whether to collect the dog or not.
The very first time they tried Jerry's method, it worked.
Best of luck,
Marilyn Rammell
---------------------------
> I was surprised to find many hits (www.dogpile.com) referenced Jerry's
> postings, and it seems like this
> website is devoted to his manual! It is a series of
> archives, without dates, but interesting.
INDEEDY.
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horsey
Wizard's Posts are TIMELESS.
> Recently I think I have observed the opposition
> reflex in non-physical, human terms. For instance, when one my posts
> opposed someones predetermined mindset, I would often see a reflexive
> response in direct opposition to what they interpreted it to mean.
You mean they LIED, Paulie.
> In turn, their direct opposition to my point of view,
> or their special spin or erroneous comments, triggered
> my opposition reflex and sometimes induced me to
> reply hastily.
Tempers can run short when we're dealin with
PATHOLOGICAL LIARS who'll DO an SAY
ANY THING to DEFEND their alleged RIGHT
to HURT INTIMDIATE MUTILATE an MURDER
innocent defenseless dumb critters to PROTECT
their undeserved reputations and fraudulent careers,
Paulie <{}: ~ ( >
> Knowing this, I can use it to my advantage, or
> at least understand why people (or animals) act
> as they do.
Of curse!
> I am surprised that Jerry does not seem to
> recognize or use this in his online efforts to convince people to try his
> methods.
PERHAPS you REALLY DON'T UNDERSAND
the NATURE of the BEAST, Paulie? We're dealin
with NAZI FASCIST COWARDS who GOTTA
DIE, Paulie.
> I'm sure he has written off most everyone here,
If they wasn't PATHOLOGICAL MENTAL CASES
they'd have rehabilitated themselves in a couple months.
> but his extensive abusive attacks are sure to trigger an opposition
> reflex,
INDEEDY! It DRIVES PEOPLE INSANE,
JUST LIKE HOWE it done to Muttley!
> resulting in emotionally charged responses
And THEN they GO INSANE, Paulie <{}: ~ ) >
> and no dialog.
You CANNOT "discuss" with LIARS, Paulie.
> I see the opposition reflex often with Muttley.
INDEEDY. You mentioned it in your most recent
post, where he still isn't "paying attention" to you
during the H&C EXXXORCISE. AS STATED,
it'll take a few days for him to get the S-HOWER
taste of his former ABUSE HOWETA his system.
> I'll try to use it, or reduce its occurrance,
> as I continue with his training.
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat,
Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard GUARANTEES
YOUR NEARLY INSTANT DISMAL FAILURE if
you CONtinue readin the methods taught by Nazi
Fascist Cowards like dr. mark plonsky and his ilk
and THINKIN they're AT ALL similar to what's
being taught in my Manual.
> Paul and Muttley
PERHAPS I didn't make myself clear?:
The *666* Edition Of Your Own
FREE COPY Of
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{) ; ~ ) >
Dedicated to The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's ANTAGONISTS
on Google Dog News Groups rec.pets.dogs.behavior, alt.med.
veterinary, rec.pets.dogs.health, rec.pets.dogs.breeds, rec. pets.
dogs.rescue, rec.pets.dogs.misc, alt.animals.dog, alt. pets.dogs.
labrador, alt.pets.dogs.pitbull, who's dilligent efforts to CRUCIFY
HIM have made HIM the WIZEST trainer in the WHOWEL WILD
WORLD, bar NONE <{): ~ ) >
THANK YOU, DOG LOVERS!
This is the first of three posts comprising The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
Open each post individually. Due to Google's size limitations,
go to "show options" and then open the link "show original"
and copy the text into your clipboard.
Repeat with each of the three (or 4, there'll be another
chapter coming soon) <{); ~ ) >
It'll help to study your own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual using a text to speech
reader, as such, employing "multiple modalities" of learning
techniques.
There's a free one at http://www.UltraHal.Com.
HOWEDY People,
I'm Jerry Howe, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard. In my forty
sumpthin years of SPECIALIZING in temperament and behavior
problems and protection training of mostly giant breed working
dogs I've had the unique pleasure of IDENTIFYING EXPOSING
and DISCREDITING NEARLY EVERY professional self professed
trainer, university trained veterinary ethologist, even human
psychiatrists, psychologists and university professors of Master's
Degree Programs of BEHAVIORISM and ethology, in the business:
Punishment ALWAYS Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.
Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face for
five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic Behavior at UofWI, pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.=AD),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> >tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
P=2ES. Contacting Dr. P:
Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.
In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.
That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.
Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.
If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs. p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: Marshall Dermer
Date: Tues, Dec 21 1999 12:00 am
Email: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
In article <tfR74.1$W64....@typhoon3.tampabay.rr.com> "Jerry Howe"
<j...@cfl.rr.com> writes:
>
> Lemme aks you sumthin, doc? When you punish your dog,
> do you find that he masturbates more frequently after
> such instances? (referring to your post about your dog
> using a pillow to get himself off)
First, I punish behavior, not dogs.
Second, I rarely issue corrections.
Third, as time goes on my dog uses the pillow less frequently.
I would say he uses it about once a month.
Finally, I'm not really concerned about my dog's masturbating;
I don't find such dog behavior offensive. Eating dog poop, for
me, is another story. And the rate of that behavior has also
diminished with time. :-)
--Marshall
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog eats poo!
Date: 2000-12-05 00:40:48 PST
I used sound distraction to stop my 2 dogs eating cow poo
during walkies. I posted here a while ago explaining how I
managed to control them from eating it but there were a lot
of sceptics. If your interested I'll be glad to tell you
what worked for me, just let me know and I'll post a thread
on this NG.
Paul
--------
From: Paul B
Date: Sat, Oct 21 2000 2:18 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>
The sound distraction and praise method he uses is VERY effective,
I use those techniques on my dogs and the results are great. From
teaching a dog to recall to preventing unwanted behaviours (shit
eating, eating the cats food, growling when taking a bone from a
dog, jumping up, even escaping from the property, any behaviour).
To say sound distraction and praise methods don't work is pure
ignorance.
I can understand you not liking Jerry and being pissed off with
the posts he submits but please keep things in context and don't
slam a technique just because you can't stand the person suggesting
using it.
Paul.
------------
Subject: to Jerry Howe
From: MArtog
Date: Wed, Jan 17 2001 12:51 pm
Email: MArtog <mar...@my-deja.com>
Just wanted to say thanks. The method you told me to stop
my dog from eating my other Labs sh-t in the backyard has
worked well.
She has also improved greatly when off leash out in the woods.
She still sniffs (of course), but I rarely need to stop her
from anything else.
I've always been diligent about watching her, and cleaning
up the yard, but ya just can't be there every second. And
she is quick! So, thanks again for the advice.
I feel more confident now when I turn my back.
And to all you folks going yea, sure, right.
THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST. HE gave me advice.
It worked. Plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.
So Jerry, allthough I don't lurk here, I'm sure
you're still putting up with DogButt and his ilk.
So good keep up the good work!
Off course DogButt will read this, even thoe it doesn't
have his name on it. Cause he thinks he owns the group.
So to you DogButt.........Well,,,,never mind.
You're already a loser. I don't need to tell you that.
Please feel free to correct my spelling/grammer, etc.
Yes, goodbye, good riddance, blah blah blah.
Later.....
MArtog
--------
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST
I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.
I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".
Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).
The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".
That made him afraid to relieve himself in the
house or infront of me.
After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.
When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".
This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...
Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.
Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.
You've been a blessing to all of us.
AIMEE
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent=AD,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts =ADto
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
---------------
If you can't train ALL behaviors NEARLY INSTANTLY withHOWET
PAIN FEAR FORCE BRIBERY AVOIDANCE CRATING INTIMIDATION, or
witholding UNCONDITIONAL LOVE TRUST and RESPECT you're using
an ineffective method or you're doin it wrong.
Here's the first of in the series of posts comprising
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training
Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
It AIN'T just for DOGS, People. The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's NON
PHYSICAL psychological and
scientific Pavlovian and Ericksonian techniques works
for ALL mammals, dogs, kats, rats, ferrets, even birdies
*(which ain't mammals), kids, SP-HOWESES, any
sentinent critter. Just substitute the species you're dealin
with wherever the text sez dog or puppy.
Study The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual carefully
and follow all the instructions and exercises precisely and
you'll get your 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CONTROL
NEARLY INSTANTLY.
An epiphany:
Many years ago The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
thought the SECRET to an effective training manual
laid in the INDEXING and CROSS REFERENCING.
THEN, HE LEARNED that would be the FAILURE
of the method, as people WANT to take the EZ way
HOWET and SKIM over the "unimportant drivel",
stuff that don't apply to *THEM* and *THEIR*
specific PROBLEM.
For that reason and to CONfHOWEND the professional
dog trainers and university obsfucationists who'd
try to skim through the text lookin for MISTAKES
to quote, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard wrote
HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training
Method Manual in such a manner as to make it
NECESSARY to read the entire text in order to use
or criticize it.
And THAT'S HOWE COME we GET 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS.
So RELAXXX and ENJOY learnin HOWE to
do it and share it with your friends <{); ~ ) >
The fameHOWES horse trainer Monty Roberts
AGREES and teaches similar techniques, begining
with his version of The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's Family Ledership Exercise, "The Join-Up".
Monty's 100% NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
techniques likeWIZE teaches us to "JOIN UP" with the
horse using their own body language he's OBSERVED
which he calls "Equs", similarly as The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard teaches you to do with your dog, kat, rat,
bird, kid or SP-HOWES using EFFECTIVE NON
PHYSICAL PSYCHOLOGICAL TECHNIQUES and
PRINCIPLES of behavior as taught in your own FREE
copy of The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits'End Dog Training Method Manual which
HE has learned through field observation of the most
troubled dogs kats kids and people in the WHOWEL
WILD WORLD <{); ~ ) >
The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Safe Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Critters
And ALL Behaviors
ALL OVER THE WHOWEL WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your Own FREE Copy Of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{): ~ ) >
Monty sez abHOWET bribery and food luring: he's
"NEVER seen a horse run to the next blade of grass":
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY model involves the USE OF
PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
Monty teaches and relies on UNCONDITIONAL
LOVE, TRUST, RESPECT, GENTLENESS and
CONSISTENTCY and applies his horsey techniques
to problem children he fosters at his ranch, as well
as in his business consultation for managemet
personnel for corporations.
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were moved to a delayed
contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated."
"Whelan illustrates the simple nature or the
learning process by referring to Ferster's
engaging study of two three year old chimpanzees
taught mathematics through simple procedures.
Whelan carries this EVIDENCE a step futher by
pointing HOWET it's applicability to disturbed
children."
"Skinner (1948, 1953) approaches a definition of the
philosophical issues involved, and provides an utopian
model of a school, but generally psychologists seem
STUCK at a level of MANAGEMENT of an aggressively
disturbing child in the classroom, through peer approval,
or the aplication of accelerating CONsequences in the
classroom, or scientifically S-HOWENDING tactics like
"TIME HOWET" (which we used to know more simply as
"sendin the kid to the cloakroom")."
Kanner (1954) reports that 13 classically autistic children
improved enough to go to school without "anything that is
regarded as good psychotherapy or as psychotherapy at all..."
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in deviant
behavior of children can be achieved through brief,
simple educative routines with their mothers which
modify the mother's social behaviors shaping the
child (Whaler, 1966). Some clinics have reported
ELIMINATION ofthe need for child THERAPY through
changing the clinical emphasis from clinical to
parental HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965)."
Autistic children have been known to become permenantely
social by deinstitutionalization, BY REMOVAL from the
parents, BY RADICAL CHANGES in other environments, and
by MASSIVE DOSAGE of TOUCHING, HOLDING, FONDLING LOVE
DESPITE THE REJECTION OF THE CHILD."
LeeCharlesKelley Wrote:
>From what I've read of Jerry's method it incorporates
a completely new model of learning, which is based (in
simplest terms) on the idea that all behavior is the
result of finding a way to relieve emotional tension.
This is true not just for dogs but all animals.
You don't believe in the validity of this
particular model of learning? You don't
think it makes sense?
Fine, I guess.
But it makes total sense to me.
And it made sense to Pavlov, too, though
not many people know this:
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior."
LeeCharlesKelley is a mystery / dog training author and
author of "No Bad Dogs Only Bad Trainers". His work is
based on Kevin Behan's "Natural Dog Training". EXXXCLELLENT
STUFF, but not for us (The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
"=2E..all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov.
Pavlov Told Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson,
Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can
Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender
Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
"All animals learn best through play," Konrad Lorenz.
Complex activities are LEARNED MORE QUICKLY
through OBSERVATION (copying, if you will) than
by trial and error with reinforcemet (Luchins,).
The SCIENCE of Dog training and behavior AIN'T LUCK.
"Luck is for SUCKERS," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{) ; ~ ) >
Of curse there's PLENTY of folks who WON'T LIKE what
they LEARN HERE, even more than the professional dog
trainers and university behaviorists / veterinary
ethologists who've been discredited by The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's teachings, as it NULIFIES
THEIR LIVES.
We call those disgruntled students, PARENTS.
HOWEver, apupriate handling and training IS a LIFE or
DEATH critteria of ETHICAL BREEDING, MORALS and PRINCIPALS.
Monty has FHOWEND as The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ:
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A Horse Is A Horse;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
ALL TEMPERAMENT AND BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS And 90% Of ALL DIS-EASES
ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING,
Poor Nutrition / Environmental Toxins
And
Iatrogenic Malpractice.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
"It Is By Muteness That A Dog Becomes
So Utterly Beyond Value."
Like A Confessor Priest?
"With Him, Words Play No Torturing Tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.
Don't Bet Your Dog Won't Tell On You...
Their Behaviors Reflect
HOWER Words, Actions And Training Quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
<{} ; ~ ) >
"If You Talk With The Animals,
They Will Talk With You
And You Will Know Each Other.
If You Do Not Talk To Them, You Will Not Know Them,
And What You Do Not Know
You Will Fear.
What One Fears, One Destroys."
Chief Dan George
"The Greatness Of A Nation And Its Moral Progress
Can Be Judged By
The Way Its Animals Are Treated." -
~ Mohandas Gandhi -- Adapted with permission
From His FREE COPY Of The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual
<} ; ~ ) >
There Are NO Gray Areas Between RIGHT And WRONG.
"Only The Unenlightened Speak Of
Wisdom And Right Action
As Separate, Not The Wise.
If Any Man Knows One, He Enjoys The Fruit Of Both.
The Level Which Is Reached By Wisdom
Is Attained Through Right Action As Well.
He Who Perceives That The Two Are One Knows The Truth."
"Even The Wise Man Acts In Character With His Nature,
Indeed All Creatures
Act According To Their Natures.
What Is The Use Of Compulsion Then?
The Love And Hate Which Are Aroused
By The Objects Of Sense
Arise From Nature,
DO NOT YIELD TO THEM.
They Only Obstruct The Path."-
- Bhagavad Gita, Adapted By
Krishna
With Permission From His Own FREE COPY
Of
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% Consistently Nearly Instantly Successful
FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual
<{) ' ~ ) >
Force Training JERRYIZES Critters
And GETS THEM DEAD.
It's called The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome:
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear,
Hate, Reflex, Self Will,
Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment,
Guilt, Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness,
Aversion, Attraction, Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion,
Change, Permanence, Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition,
And
Parental / ReligiHOWES / Societal Conditioning.
YOU ARE THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.
It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Ask me if you need any additional free heelp.
Here's ALL the INFORMATION you need to
pupperly handle and train your dog:
<SNIP Manual>
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
TheSincerelyIncrediblyFreakinInsanelySimplyAmazingGrandPuppyChildPussyBirdyGoatFerettAndHorseyWizard
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:4686b436$0$19115$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
>
> "diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns995F9AC...@216.196.97.142...
>> in thread news:4686a942$0$19123$ecde...@news.coretel.net: "Paul E.
>> Schoen"
>> <pst...@smart.net> whittled the following words:
>
>>> I see the opposition reflex often with Muttley.
INDEEDY. You've seen it EVERY time you'd
taken Muttley on leash pryor to startin my Method.
>>> I'll try to use it, or reduce its occurrance, as I continue with his
>>> training.
Of curse. That's HOWE COME it's IN The
Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy,
Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog,
Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horse
Training Method Manual <{}; ~ ) >
>>> Paul and Muttley
>
>> Your are polluting Jerry's method by
>> interjecting those of others, trashing
>> the experiment
Could very well be the case. THAT'S HOWE
COME it SEZ in The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horse Training Method Manual SPECIFICALLY
NOT to read or study ANY other method till you've
MASTERED the techniques taught in The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett,
Monkey And Horse Training Method Manual:
------------
> No. For now I am gleaning and processing information, but attempting to
> follow Jerry's
> method as closely as possible.
Well Paul, wouldn't you agree that FOLLOWIN
the INSTRUCTIONS means FOLLOWIN ALL
the INSTRUCTIONS, not pick'n an choose'n
which WON you LIKE or not?
> The opposition reflex is specifically addressed in his manual, and I am
> adding nothing new to
> my training.
Well, yeah, you DID, Paul. You've polluted your
mind as diddler sez, with GARBAGE from Nazi
Fascist COWARDS who won't even defend
themselves on accHOWENTA THEY CAN'T!:
Subject: "Science and Dog Training,"
Mark Plonsky, Ph.D., JERRYIZED
HOWEDY dr. p,
"Dr. P" <mplon...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:c972edd3.04041...@posting.google.com...
> "The Puppy Wizard" ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net
wrote in message
<news:z1Ifc.10477$zj3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > HOWEDY People, Here's dr p of UofWI, professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer's
> > partner gettin CRUCIFIED:
> > >Science and Dog Training by Mark Plonsky, Ph.D. Copyright © 1998
> > >(originally appeared in the Malinois Handler)
> Sir,
> I would reply to your comments,
But you got a frog in your throat? Mabe you got
a slight SPELLIN problem, professor? You come
to the right place doc. The Amazin Puppy Wizard
is pertty good abHOWET reptiles, to boot.
NO PROLEMO!
> but you are so far out in left field
Well, if you're refering to The Puppy Wizard's
recommendation of the coqui tree frog eradication
project in Puerto Rico or the sea turtle recipes,
you may have a point.
> that it would be pointless.
Right. Lucky thing we're talkin behavior.
> You must be an unhappy individual
INDEEDY, professor. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
is very unhappy that HOWER universities are teachin
folks HOWE to HURT and INTIMIMDATE their
dogs and try to get HOWET callin that, trainin.
> spewing forth nonsense
CITES please?
> and bad mouthing people
They kinda go hand in hand.
> on the forums for hours each day.
Let's discuss scientific dog trainin professor.
> I urge you to consider visiting a therapist.
INDEED. Let's DISS-CUSS your methods
with a therapist.
> All the best,
The Amazing Puppy Wizard would NEVER resort
to ad hominum attacks till HIS prey is thHOWERLY
discredited based on their work:
> Dr. P Dog Training Site - http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog
HOWEDY People,
Here's dr p of UofWI, professor SCRUFF SHAKE
dermer's partner gettin CRUCIFIED:
>Science and Dog Training by Mark Plonsky, Ph.D. Copyright © 1998
>(originally appeared in the Malinois Handler) In this article, the
>relevance of science to an understanding of dog training and behavior will
>be briefly outlined. Note that I view dog training as an art rather than a
>science.
Well that's QUEER, AIN'T IT, bein you're supposed
to be a SCIENTIST, professor. That's CONtraWIZE
to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's STATEMENT that
dog trainin is a precise science.
THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students REPORT 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS.
> However, just as the artist must learn the mechanics of mixing paints,
Like dancin.
> I believe the dog trainer would be wise to learn what science has to say
> about dog behavior.
You mean, when they're not GUESSIN?
> Science studies phenomena (events in the world) using specific and agreed
> upon methods. There are many branches of science. Two that are
> particularly relevant to an understanding of dog behavior are biology (the
> study of life) and psychology (the study of behavior and mental processes
> in humans and other animals).
Well professor, do you believe in LUCK?
PRAYER?
Better start PRAYIN for LUCK cause The Amazing
Puppy Wizard is abHOWET to DISCREDIT YOU.
AGAIN.
> Within these two major branches are still smaller branches or fields.
> These branches and fields lead to the formation of different perspectives
> or points of view within science. There are at least four major points of
> view that have relevance to dog behavior. These include the biological,
> social, behavioral, and cognitive perspectives.
IOW, a dog is a dog.
> I will briefly discuss each in turn. Note also that these different
> perspectives should be viewed as complementing one another, rather than
> being mutually exclusive.
Sorry professor. You CANNOT punish a DUMB ANIMAL.
>The Biological Prospective
See "THE MISBEHAVIOR OF ORGANISMS"
Keller Breland and Marian Breland (1961)
> The biological perspective emphasizes what is going on inside the dog.
> This view includes an analysis of the dog's perception of its world.
By a professor of animal abuse.
> Dogs and humans have different sensory apparatus and thus perceive the
> world quite differently.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard DISAGREES.
> Consider the joke "the dog really nose the world, but we do not see it
> that way". In any event, I believe an understanding of these differences
> in perception is invaluable to the dog trainer.
Yeah. That's on accHOWENT of you'd have
to make that distinction to justify HURTING
dogs to train them.
> Another relevant area within the biological perspective is called
> "behavioral endocrinology" and is concerned with the effects of hormones
> on behavior.
Ooops! So sorry professor, The Amazing Puppy
Wizard SEZ it's HOWER behavior that causes
the dog's endocrine system to run amok.
> This area is helpful in understanding gender and developmental (age)
> differences in behavior
You're full of crap, professor. A dog is a dog.
> and may provide insight into the effects of neutering/spaying.
S/N is surgical mutilation having little or no
bearing on behavior, professor, EXXXCEPT
that it causes FEAR AGGRESSION in 15%
of critters surgically mutilated.
> A third relevant area within the biological prospective is called
> "behavioral genetics". Most scientists today believe that behavior is a
> result of a complex and continuous interaction of heredity (genetics) and
> the environment (learning).
You mean, most "scientists" who jerk and
choke and shock and pinch and twist and
bribe and lock dogs in boxes and spray
aversives in their faces and try to get HOWET
callin THAT, trainin.
> When talking about a particular behavior, scientists speak of how much of
> a contribution genetics have made compared to learning.
That's rather like discussin HOWE many angels
can fit on the head of a pin, ain't it, professor.
What should be CONsidered is HOWE HOWER
BEHAVIOR triggers the GENETIC PROPENSITIES
for such DIS-EASES as The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> For some behaviors, genetics plays a more important role than for others
> (for example, herding as compared to retrieving in a Border collie).
BWEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> We refer to behaviors that have a strong genetic component as
> "instinctive". Furthermore, we can selectively breed animals based on
> their behavior.
A dog is still a dog.
> Those dogs that show the behavior we desire (for example, pointing or
> retrieving in hunting dogs), are the ones we breed.
IOW, as EXXXPERT dog trainers you
can't train a dog to do a behavior IT
don't already have.
> If successful, the result will be offspring that are more likely to show
> the behavior we desire.
IMAGINE?
>The last relevant area within the biological perspective is "evolution".
>This idea argues that dogs evolved from wolves. If there is any truth to
>this view, then studying the behavior of wolves (and perhaps other, related
>canines) may be helpful in understanding dog behavior.
Ooops! We're digressin to the alphalpha bunk again.
>The Social Perspective
Hmmm.
>The social perspective emphasizes the behavior of more than one animal at a
>time. It also places emphasis upon how the behavior of one animal can
>influence the behavior of another.
Like when you INTIMIATE and HURT them.
>One area that falls within the social prospective is nonverbal
>communication of emotion. This area is concerned with body language or
>being able to "read" the dog. Body posture (including tail and ear
>positions as well as body movements in general) and vocalizations (type and
>quality) tell a great deal about the emotional state and intentions of the
>dog.
Yeah. But other than as a curiHOWEsity, they're
SUBJECTIVE and IRRELEVENT.
> In addition to understanding how dogs communicate with each other, it is
> important to be aware that dogs also "read" our emotional state and
> intentions.
Oh? Like a Mystic?
> Thus, we must also be aware of our own postures, expressions, and
> movements.
Only if you're bein SNEAKY.
> Another area that can fit within the social perspective is called
> "ethology". This field is a branch of biology concerned with the study of
> animal behavior using naturalistic observation as the main research
> method.
Oh? You mean like HOWE The Amazing Puppy
Wizard CONSISTENTLY gets 100% TOTAL
NON PHYSICAL CONTROL, nearly instantly.
> In fact, this method is the primary tool for studying wolves and other
> canines in their natural habitat.
Yeah? What's that got to do with studin dogs
in their HOWEses with their family?
>Although not an area or field of science, a phenomena that ties in with the
>social point of view is "imprinting".
BWEEEAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> This refers to the situation where events that occur at a specific period
> early in the animals life (called a "critical period")
As articulated by Scott & Fuller and interperted
by The Amazing Puppy Wizard.
> have serious and long lasting effects upon the animal's adult behavior.
> This phenomenon is most noted in relation to attachment (or bonding)
> behavior.
Mostly it's for the birds.
> Thus, how the puppy is treated and what types of things it is exposed to
> can influence it's adult behavior.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM?
>The Behavioral Perspective The behavioral perspective is a view within
>psychology that emphasizes the role of the environment (that is, learning)
>in determining dog behavior.
Oh? You mean like when you jerk and choke
a dog on a pronged spiked pinch choke collar
and shock and lock IT in a box and spray IT
in the eyes with aversives and ignore IT when
IT cries and barks for attention and bonding.
> As far as dog training goes, this view gives the most "bang for the
> buck".
You mean CONTROLLING the ENVIRONMENT
when you don't have the intellect to HOWEtwit
the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.
> That is, a study of this area can give the dog trainer quick results.
> This view provides the dog trainer with a theory of how the dog learns
> during training. This learning or "conditioning" is typically divided into
> two types: classical and operant. I should note that there exists some
> controversy among learning theorists about whether there really are two
> distinct kinds, because there is so much overlap between them and they
> have some properties in common.
BWEEEHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
You can't claim you're gettin 100% NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCES with all dogs and all behaviors, professor.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard DOES. That means you
gotta start observing MOORE and forcing and bribing
less.
> In any event, operant conditioning is perhaps more directly applicable to
> dog training. Briefly, proponents of operant conditioning believe that
> "behavior is a function of its consequences".
IOW, you HURT the dog.
> In other words, what happens to the dog after it performs a behavior is
> important in determining whether the behavior will occur again in the
> future.
Well THAT don't make no sense cause you CANNOT
REWARD a dog for a behavior IT AIN'T THINKIN.
You gotta "reward" the behavior in the act of being THOUGHT.
THAT'S HOWE COME you can't train every dog nearly instantly.
You're afraid to PRAISE a dog for NOT doin as you tell it.
> For example, if the dog performs a behavior and is then given something it
> likes (perhaps food, play, a hug, and/or a smile),
It'll be AFTER THE FACT and therefor INVALID.
The dog will have no ability to connect his "reward"
with the past behavior that caused the reward.
You're like five blind men checkin HOWET the elephant.
> it will be more likely to do it again in the future.
Then you can start to reduce the reward.
> Classical conditioning is concerned with the events in the world that
> exist prior to the occurrence of biologically important events (food,
> pain).
HOWE much PAIN does HOWER professor
enjoy with his dinner?
> It has been shown that dogs will salivate to a bell that is regularly
> sounded prior to giving food.
Yeah?
> In other words, the dog's body begins to respond to the sound of the bell
> as if it were food.
A conditioned reflex?
> This is relevant to dog training,
Yeah. Too bad you don't use it.
> since one could argue that the bell has become a pleasant sound and makes
> the dog feel good.
IMAGINE?
> Thus, by manipulating events in the dog's world, we can influence how it
> feels.
And if you could make a dog FEEL GOOD
abHOWET WORKIN, HE'D WORK for FREE.
Wouldn't he, professor p?
> An understanding of this type of conditioning has led to the development
> of a type of therapy called "systematic desensitization".
INDEED? You mean as taught in The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's Anchoring Technique in The
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual.
> This therapy can be used with a dog that is fearful of loud noises (or
> other things).
Like THIS?:
"I posted this to rec.pets.dogs.health without
too much success. Things are beginning to
get much worse day by day and the vets seem
unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
>The Cognitive Perspective
BWEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
>The cognitive perspective is a view within psychology that sees the animal
>as a processor of information.
Is THAT HOWE COME you choke and shock and
pinch and scruff shake dogs?
> Terms like prediction, control, and expectancy are important to this view.
> A relevant phenomenon called "learned helplessness" could easily be
> explained by this view.
Like the Stockholm Syndrome.
> Learned helplessness refers to the fact that an animal exposed to
> uncontrollable unpleasant events has a hard time learning that it has
> control when the events are once again controllable.
Kinda like post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
> In other words, a dog exposed to uncontrollable unpleasant events will
> "shut down" and have a hard time learning anything new (except perhaps
> fear through classical conditioning).
Ahh, HOWER DOG LOVERS often talk abHOWET
dogs "shutting dHOWEN."
> The cognitive perspective would argue that during exposure to
> uncontrollable unpleasant events, the dog learned that "nothing it does
> matters" and this expectancy later interfered with its ability to learn in
> a new situation.
Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME dogs become HYPERACTIVE.
> The cognitive view blends nicely with the behavioral view and the
> combination of the two views (called the cognitive-behavior view) has
> become quite popular in psychology.
BWEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
>Conclusions
Looks like you're full of crap, professor.
> A brief outline of the relevance of science to an understanding of dog
> training and behavior was presented.
Yeah. Too bad you're a clueless descartean abuser.
>Although I have only presented four perspectives, I hope I have made clear
>that many areas of science and well-known phenomena are involved in dog
>learning and behavior. In future articles, I will present more details on
>some of the issues and phenomena noted here.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard eagerly invites
you to DISS-CUSS behaviorISM with The
Amazing Puppy Wizard. We can start with
PUNISHMENT, ANIMAL CRUELTY and
CRIMINAL CONSEQUENCES, professor.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
Date: 2004-01-16 18:36:40 PST
HOWEDY People,
Works for dogs as it works for people... except dogs
need far less trauma stress and mistrust to make them
psychotic cause they can't rationalize that their abuser
LOVES them and HURTS them to keep them SAFE.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good
of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those
who torment us for our own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis.
Figger it HOWET, People.
------------------------------------------
> A deeper base of understanding is always helpful
INDEEDY. Better RE READ your Manual, Paulie.
> I tried a few more brief "hot and cold"
> exercises today, in several locations,
We was gonna do FOUR repetitions in
FOUR different locations <{}: ~ ( >
> but the result is always that he stops pulling, sits, lays down, or rolls
> around, without looking
> at me.
Fine. HOWEver, if you're using the H&C EXXXORCISE
to CON-TROLL Muttley while takin a walk, you AIN'T
FOLLOWIN the METHOD, you're using dr. dunbar's
IDIOTIC "make like a tree" technique AND THAT will
CONfHOWEND HOWER METHODS, Paulie.
NOT to worry, Paul, we ain't gonna be usin
any of diddler's EXXXPERT methods:
diddler wrote:
> I'd probably just knock his dick in the dirt everytime he peed on my dog.
And then tara o. aka tee MURDERED her DEAD DOG.
> This continues whether or not I praise him or "engage him in
> conversation".
Fine. You'll see his progression as he becomes
CONvinced that you AIN'T gonna be jerkin an
chokin him like HOWE janet taught you <{}: ~ ) >
> Only when I tell him we will continue on the
> walk, or otherwise provide him with direction,
When doin the H&C there AIN'T no directions,
other than PRAISE.
> does he briefly pay attention, and then go where
> he wants, except for changes I choose to make.
Sounds like he's become more compliant.
> Paul and Muttley
Subject: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD):
A very real condition
By Dr. Abraham Twerski, M.D.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com |
It is rather strange that a condition which should
have easily been identified on the basis of common
sense was not recognized by the psychiatric profession
until relatively recently.
The term Post Traumatic Stress Disorder did not
appear in the American Psychiatric Association
manual until 1980. The reason this is important
is because it indicates an attitude that can have
bearing on recognizing the problem and instituting
proper treatment.
After World War I, soldiers who showed symptoms
of anxiety, irritability, nightmares and inability to cope
with life were considered to have "a bad state of nerves"
which was termed "shell shock."
It was thought that they were cowards who
wished to evade combat. They were subject
to shame and threatened with court-martial.
It wasn't until 1941 that the first clinical study
entitled The Traumatic Neuroses of War
was published.
The author, Dr. Kardiner, pointed out that war
neurosis was considered by many physicians
to be a "hysterical neurosis," and that this term
led people to think that the patient was weak
willed, malingering and trying to get something
for nothing.
After World War II, a more enlightened attitude
developed, with the realization that prolonged
combat could break even the strongest soldier,
and that the psychiatric casualties of war were
as real and as inevitable as gunshot and shrapnel
wounds. It was not until the Vietnam war that the
condition of "traumatic neurosis" was legitimized.
The resistance to recognizing that trauma can have
long-term psychological effects still persists. Although
there is sympathy for those who were victims of
catastrophic trauma such as an earthquake, tornado
or terrorist attack, there is a less positive attitude
toward people who sustained personal trauma.
As a result, people who have suffered personal
trauma are hesitant to seek help for their problems.
They may do their utmost to cope and may actually
function quite well, but the unresolved residuals of
the trauma may cause emergence of symptoms at
any time.
Shame and guilt may result in the memory
of the trauma being buried in the subconscious
mind, beyond one's awareness.
Children who suffered abuse or molestation may
have difficulties in school performance and socialization.
A variety of pedagogic and psychological techniques
may be used to help them, but as long as the trauma
remains a secret and unattended, they are not likely
to succeed.
The emotional aftermath of childhood trauma may
cause serious disturbances in marriage and in parenting.
People seeking psychological help may not even
recall traumatic events of childhood. These
must be skillfully elicited and dealt with.
Young children are extremely impressionable, and
childhood trauma may have a much greater impact
than similar trauma in adulthood.
After World War II, some psychiatrists tried to treat
the combat neurosis by administering sodium amytal
("truth serum"). Under the effect of this drug, some
patients were able to recall and describe the trauma.
However, mere recollection did little to relieve their
symptoms. What is necessary is an understanding
and integration of the experience into consciousness.
One must become aware of the emotions incident
to the trauma, how they have caused the memory
to be walled off and how they are affecting one's
current behavior.
Symptoms of PTSD can occur anywhere from days
to years after the trauma. Their effect on a person's
functioning may range anywhere from minimal to
totally disabling.
The primary symptoms fall into three categories:
Hyperalertness, Intrusions and Suppression.
Hyperalertness means that the person is constantly
on guard, as if danger is lurking and may occur at
any moment. He is easily startled by noises or by
any unexpected movement. The ring of an alarm
clock or someone entering the door without knocking
may trigger a reaction.
The mind may perceive these as a threat, and the
body may respond with the features of the "fight or
flight" reaction. A person with hyperalertness may
find it impossible to relax. He may have difficulty in
falling asleep and may awaken several times during
the night, with or without nightmares.
Sleep deprivation may result in poor concentration,
impaired memory and moodiness.
People who live with expectation of danger may
actually precipitate some mishap. The tension
and suspense that something terrible is going
to happen may be so intolerable that they do
something "to get it over with."
They may start a business venture and do something
to make it fail. They may have a good relationship and
act in a manner that will make the other person reject
them. They may be more prone to accidents. Each
failure or accident may reinforce their feeling that the
world is stacked against them.
The consequences of their anxiety breeds more
anxiety in a vicious cycle that is reminiscent of
the words of Job, "I felt great anxiety, and what
I feared would happen did happen to me" (Job 3:25).
A person should experience joy in life. People with
morbid expectations may be unable to accept feeling
joy. They may fear that if they enjoy something they
may lose it.
One young mother with PTSD said that she dreads
walking over to the baby's crib for fear that she would
not find the child alive.
"I don't feel I deserve to have such a beautiful baby."
There was no logic to this fear. It was a symptom of
her expecting something terrible to happen. Parents
with PTSD who have morbid expectations may be so
overprotective of their children that they cause them
to become hyperalert and anxious and stifle their growth.
Intrusion means that the traumatic incident keeps
coming back and intruding into their awareness.
Any one of many things that is in any way reminiscent
of the traumatic incident may cause the person to feel
he is reliving it.
This is called a "flashback." In order to avoid flashbacks
the person may restrict his activities to avoid something
that may trigger one. The person may avoid reading a
newspaper, a book, or meeting people who may in some
way trigger a flashback. He may become isolated and
socially withdrawn. For example, some Holocaust
survivors may avoid reading anything referring to
the Holocaust, or even meeting other survivors for
fear of experiencing a flashback of terror.
Night terrors in the way of dreams are intrusive.
People who have experienced a personal assault
at night may not leave their homes at night. A child
who leaves the home at night may trigger an intrusive
thought, and they may forbid their children to go out at
night.
Suppression refers to keeping the thought out of
awareness. Because it is a subconscious process
it should more correctly be referred to as "repression."
It is similar to the bodily defense of fainting upon
an acute pain so that the pain cannot be felt. Some
people describe the experience of a trauma as
though it was not happening to them.
This repression can occur both at the moment of
the trauma or at any time later. Something which
is too painful to realize may be banished from
awareness.
Clinically, this is especially important in cases of child
molestation. The memory of the experience may be so
laden with the negative feelings of fear, shame and guilt,
that the person may not recall it. Nevertheless, the
memory exists in the subconscious mind, from where
the noxious feelings of fear, shame and guilt associated
with the incident continue to exert their effect.
The person may be depressed and/or have
problems ranging from low self-esteem to
loathing oneself, without a clue as to why one
feels that way.
She may employ any of the coping tactics described
in my book Life's Too Short. Difficulties in interpersonal
relationships and disturbances of marriage may be the
result of such incidents.
Because the causative trauma is not recalled, the
person may attribute these difficulties to a variety
of other causes, none of which are true.
Even in therapy, the focus may be on resolving
these other causes, which does nothing to alleviate
the problem because the real cause is not addressed.
Some people may recall a traumatic incident and
even describe it, but the memory is devoid of
emotion and meaning.
Allowing oneself to think about the memory might
bring back the painful feelings one wishes to avoid.
Rape is one of the most devastating traumas a human
being can experience. Proper management of the acute
trauma may help forestall severe PTSD, but support and
therapy may be necessary for a longer time.
A man who had been mugged at night developed
a fear of night. He took a job where he worked
from 11PM to 8 AM, because that enabled him to
stay awake all night. He was frightened of being
defenseless when asleep.
The feeling of loss of control that is characteristic of
trauma may result in strange ways of trying to gain control.
Some people may develop superstitions or magical
thinking. Some people may say that they had
premonitions of a disaster and that they have
omens about what may happen.
Some may convince themselves that they brought the
trauma onto themselves, and although this may cause
them to feel guilty, the idea of "I caused it" can mean
"because I made it happen, I can make it not happen."
Ironically, the painful feeling of guilt may provide a
modicum of relief because it may give them a sense
of control. This may also explain recurrent nightmares.
The two symptoms, intrusion and suppression, have
opposite effects. Intrusion tries to bring the trauma
into awareness, and suppression tries to keep it out
of awareness. The person with PTSD is caught in
the middle, vacillating between states of intense
emotion and no feeling at all. This why the person
may be unstable and unpredictable, alternating
between impulsive behavior and no action at all.
With so many possible symptoms, mood alternation and
unpredictable behavior, the person with PTSD may be
erroneously diagnosed and treatment may be ineffective.
It is, therefore, important to be aware of PTSD, to
prevent it when possible, to recognize it early, and
to institute proper treatment.
---------------------------------------------------------------
------------- ---- Abraham J. Twerski, M.D. is a psychiatrist
and ordained rabbi. He is the founder of the Gateway
Rehabilitation Center in Pittsburgh, a leading center for
addiction treatment. An Associate Professor of Psychiatry at
the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, he is a
prolific author, with some 30 books to his credit. He has
recently launched a new 12 step program for self esteem
development www.12steps2selfesteem.com
=======================
Here's an alternative SOLUTION:
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon.
FIGGER IT HOWET.
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferett, Goat, Monkey
bethgsd
"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:f66ds0$c9k$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <4686b436$0$19115$ecde...@news.coretel.net>,
> Paul E. Schoen <pst...@smart.net> wrote:
>>No. For now I am gleaning and processing information,
>
> And turning it into compost, apparently.
> --
> Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
And the compost, wouldn't it be high in nitrogen since shit is considered a
green for that purpose?
Beth
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@hotmail.com
On Jun 30, 4:44 pm, "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote:
> "Marcel Beaudoin" <marcel.beaud...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns995FA1ED82B57...@130.133.1.4...
>
> > "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
> >news:4686b436$0$19115$ecde...@news.coretel.netin
> > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> >> I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises
> >> today, in several locations,
We was suppHOWESED to do four repetitions in
each location pryor to repeating it in four different
locations.
It's important than you not present this EXXXORCISE
as "just takin a walk and stopping to do the H&C",
otherWIZE it'll appear to be the same as dr. ian dunbar's
idiotic "make like a tree" technique for teachin heelin or
loose leash walking.
> >> but the result is always that he
> >> stops pulling, sits, lays down,
EXXXCELLENTE!
> or rolls around, without looking at me.
He's still throwin you the dew claw, Paulie <{):* ~ ( >
> >> This continues whether or not I praise
> >> him or "engage him in conversation".
Looks like he's bein SPITEFUL. Fine. Perhaps
it's time to bring back the PRONG, eh, Paulie?
> >> Only when I tell him we will continue on the walk,
O.K. You might wanna just wait till he comes arHOWEND
askin you to do sumpthin with him, and THEN do it. That'll
give him the sense that he's trainin you and he'll be less
spiteful in the future <{}: ~ ) >
> >> or otherwise provide him with direction, does he
> >> briefly pay attention, and then go where he wants,
> >> except for changes I choose to make.
Does he seem to be more compliant abHOWET
walking withHOWET pulling and keepin WON eye
an WON ear on you, Paulie?
Perhaps this will DEAMONstrate to you HOWE forcing
your dog to walk on leash teaches them to IGNORE you
and pull to ESCAPE being forced?
There's LOTS of EXXXCELLENT lessons to be learned
from payin attention to what your dog is tryin to train you
to do, Paulie <{}'; ~ ) >
GOOD BOY!
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.
What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George
"Only the unenlightened speak of
wisdom and right action
as separate,
not the wise.
If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.
The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.
He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then?
The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense
arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path." --
Bhagavad Gita, adapted by
Krishna with permission from
His FREE copy of The Puppy
Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >
> > Muttley's training of you is coming along nicely I see.
INDEEDY! Paul's doin EXXXCELLENTE! Ain't he, marcel
the imbecile idiot liar dog an child abusin psychoclHOWEN.
Here's HOWE your dog Mooglie is trainin you to MURDER him:
Subject: "He Bit Her In The Face!"
HOWEDY Poople,
HOWEDY marcel the imbecile idiot liar animal an child abusin
punk thug coward active acute chronic life long incurable mental
case Ph.D. FRAUD and obsfucationist,
> Moogli on the other hand, is skating on very
> thin ice with Gen and I at the moment.
Not to be a nit picker, but AIN'T IT suppHOWESED to
be 'gen an ME' marcel the imbecile idiot Ph.D. FRAUD
psychoclHOWEN?
> For no apparant reason yesterday
Dogs NEVER DO NUTHIN for NO REASON, marcel the imbecile
idiot liar animal and child abusing Ph.D. FRAUD psychoclHOWEN:
"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."
Like a confessor Priest?
"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.
Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> that I know of
You don't know much abHOWET nuthin, marcel, other
than PAIN FEAR FORCE INTIMIDATION and AVOIDANCE.
> (I was at work, it happened when Gen was with Emilie just
> before taking her to daycare) when Emilie was walking by
> Moogli, something she had doneseveral times before that
> morning alone,
You've NEVER got your dog an kid to be PALS despite
all your puppy socialization classes and bribin jerkin
chokin cratin an sprayin IT in the face with aversives
an lockin IT in a box and ignoring ITS cries <{}: ~ ( >
> he bit her.In the face.
Naaaah?
Perhaps she was tryin to TAKE sumpthin from him
like HOWE it was when Mooglie BIT your Mrs.?
> Gen informed him in no uncertain terms that this Was Not Allowed,
Did she give him a stern lecture or maybe threaten
to TAKE AWAY HIS BIRTHDAY, marcel?
LIKE THIS:
Best wishes,
Marshall
---------------------------
THAT'S HOWE IT'S DONE, SEE?
> and he spent the rest of the day hiding in his cage.
So he can THINK abHOWET his BAD BEHAVIOR, marcel the imbecile?
> I love Moogli to death,
Well then, IT'S TIME TO MURDER HIM, ain't it, marcel the imbecile.
> but the choice between him or Emilie is not a difficult one to make.
Perhaps you should just sign him up for another OBEDIENCE
TRAININ CLASS, eh, marcel the imbecile idiot liar animal abusin
mental case Ph.D. psychoclHOWEN?
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
BWEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
HOWEDY Cecil,
>>"Cecil" <simpson1...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> in news:1153341753.102152.63540@
>> 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>> From: Marcel Beaudoin
>> Date: Thurs, Jul 20 2006 8:58 am
>> Email: Marcel Beaudoin <marcel.beaud...@gmail.com>
>
>>> He's small and cute -
LikeWIZE The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard
as is marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser coward Ph.D.
psychoclHOWEN's dog Mooglie who attacked his Mrs. and is
fear aggressive towards his 1.5 y.o. child and grHOWELES
at his brother the entire time he visits and grHOWELS at
marcel the imbecile when he carries the newspaper and
attacked his Mrs. for takin STUFF he stole away from him <{}; ~ ) >
>>> prompting people to bend down and stick
>>> out their hand for him to sniff.
Yeah. marcel the idiot imbecile's child CAN'T DO THAT
to his fear aggressive hyperactive dog Mooglie <{}' ~ ) >
>>> Until he knows the person,
It's been nearly WON year an a half and marcel the
imbecile idiot liar's own dog CAN'T BE TRUSTED with
his own daughter on accHOWENT of he's been ABUSED by
marcel on his pronged spiked pinch choke collar.
>>> that when he runs up and bites.
Like HOWE Mooglie did to marcel the imbecile idiot's Mrs?
"Marcel Beaudoin" <mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.urka-gurka.com>
wrote in message news:XdYV9.25072$j5.115440@news...
> Ohhh. I have an opinion on prong collars.
> Might as well have you take away my birthday.
Well marcel the imbecile, The Freakin Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard CAN'T take away your birthday, HOWEver
HE CAN IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you as a liar
a dog abuser a fraud a coward and active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case by QUOTING your own
posted CASE HISTORY <{); ~ ) >
LIKE THIS:
Subject: Re: GL vs. Prong
Date: 2002-12-23 11:14:11 PST
"Mudbunny" <m...@hotmail.com>
A.K.A marcel the clown mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.urka-gurka.com
wrotein message news:ea2dcca7.02122...@posting.google.com
Well, time to add my 2 cents (Canadian, so
about half a cent american) worth. When I
first started looking into getting a dog,
I wandered out on the net and found info on
a prong collar, and when I looked at it, it
looked like this HORRID thing designed to hurt dogs.
Then, I saw on some show (don't remember which)
info on choke-collars vs. prong collars. The host
actually put one of each on HIMSELF and tried it.
HE found that the choke collar did what it was designed
to do, choke the living daylights out of whoever has it on.
The prong collar on the other hand provided even
pressure all the way around the neck, and he could
take a lot harder of a pull before it got really uncomfortable.
Marcel Beaudoin
----------------
And THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS GO INSANE.
Thank you Mudbunny. Now we know HOWE COME we
got lying dog abusing Thug Cowards hurting dogs and
believing they're not hurtin them...
TIME TO MURDER Mooglie, eh, marcel?
BWEEEAAAAHAAHAAAHAAAA!!!
> Once again, I repeated the exercise, for about four minutes in each of four
> locations. He pulled as usual to the first location, and it took some
> effort to have him stop on a loose leash, within 10-20 seconds or so. At
> one point he glanced at me, and I said "Good boy, Muttley", and he started
> moving to resume his walk. He was facing away, so I could not see his eyes
> roll, or hear him mutter under his breath. But he sat down, looking away,
> and further praise produced no response. He did his usual rolls and
> occasional wandering, but mostly stood or sat there. He responded on my
> second announcement that we would continue our walk, and we went a short
> way before repeating the exercise in another area. After four repetitions
> of this, he seemed more manageable, and did LLW on our way back to the
> house. As we got there, a neighbor from down the street passed by, and
> Muttley was very attentive. I exchanged greetings with him, and he
> continued on his way. Muttley pulled a little to get closer, but was
> certainly not clawing his way to get to him. He would not come back when
> called (that is a future lesson), but after a brief pat on his head he
> turned around and went into the house.
>
> None of this behavior is particularly new or surprising, but as part of a
> specific and consistent training exercise, it may be showing some
> improvement.
>
> Stay tuned. You people are so easily amused!
>
> Paul and Muttley
And THAT'S HOWE COME these ARE The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training
Method Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory <{); ~ ) >
SEE?
And when your heads stops spinnin AGAIN, The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy
And Horsey Wizard sincerely wishes you and yours, happy, heelthful
days, FOREVER.
In Love And Light,
And With A Heelthy Dose
Of Pain Fear Force And Intimidation
I remain respectfully, humbly yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU?
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@hotmail.com
punk thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable mental case
whoremongerin SEXUAL SADIST, aka MACK DADDY <{}: ~ ) >
On Jun 30, 3:55 pm, Marcel Beaudoin <marcel.beaud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrotenews:4686b436$0$19115$ecde...@news.coretel.netin
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises today,
>
> Muttley's training of you is coming along nicely I see.
INDEEDY.
After all, this IS all abHOWET trainin an the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR.
> --
> Marcel and Moogli
From The Annals Of Human_And_Animal_Behavior_
Forensic_Sciences_
Research_Laboratory @HotMail.Com
Date: 9 May 2007 10:41:08 -0700
Subject: Re: New addition to the Beaudoin family
HOWEDY marcel the imbecile idiot imbecile liar phd dog an child
abusin punk thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable
mental case whoremongerin SEXUAL SADIST, aka MACK DADDY <{}: ~ ) >
On May 9, 9:45 am, Marcel Beaudoin <marcel.beaud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=386488&id=864585696
> Too early to tell the sex,
Sometimes it's NEVER EZ to tell, marcel. Look at matty aka Rocky,
for EXXXAMPLE Can't tell WHAT IT IS, but it's curiHOWES and it
LIVES!
> but the predicted birthdate is October 31st.
CONGRATULATIONS, marcel.
Let's PRAY it's a girl so's you can add IT to your stable.
> Marcel
marcel beaudoin Sexual Sadist / Masochist
Bondage / Discipline Fetishist,
Whoremonger
Dog Trainin And Pronged Spiked Pinch Choke Collars Go Together
Like A Child An Paddle <{) :~ ) >
HOWEDY marcel the imbecile idiot imbecile liar phd dog an child abusin
punk thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable mental case
whoremongerin SEXUAL SADIST, aka MACK DADDY <{}: ~ ) >
It AIN'T NO SECRET many of the r..p.d.b.er's are SEXUAL SADISTS;
lone hanson, laura arlov, susan fraser, shirley chong, DOGMAN, tarag,
tara o, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, lyin frosty dahl, marcel
beaudoin.
show dog bark aka mirelle, sinofabitch, the list goes on an on and
encompasses ALL psychoses an neuroses, perversions and fetishes,
urolangia, coprophagia, annilingus, animal sex, any despicable
practices, do don't let noWON thinkThe Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard is PICKIN on "MACK DADDY" marcel <{}: ~ ( >
The Followin Posts Are Brought To You Courtesy Of The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
Annals Of Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory
AND
COLLEGE OF HARD KNOCKXXX
<{): ~ ( >
Subject: {ASSD} - Looking for title for BDSM story
1 From: Mudbunny
Date: Tues, Jun 22 2004 3:00 pm
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
I would like the help of the residents of ASSD for help in finding a
story. It is a rather long one that centers (I think) around BDSM.
It starts when the main character is a young boy and he gets into some
BDSM with his neighbour. I remember one of the parts is that she ties
a thread/rope/yarn around his cock.
As an adult, he goes to work for a company that specialises in hosting
websites that deal with erotica and BDSM. He ends up being a sub to a
bunch of the women there, despite being married. At some point in
time, his wife dies. Also, his old neighbour comes back and tries to
buy him. He also names a server after her (the neighbour)
Thanks
mudbunny
You might wanna try that thread on Moogli's Pee Pee, eh marcel
the imbecile idiot liar dog an child abusin punk thug coward acitve
acute chronic long term incurable mental case an self perceived
MACK DADDY~!:
Subject: Moogli is on his way to being a man!!!
Subject: Moogli is on his way to being a man!!!
1 From: Mudbunny
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2003 11:22 am
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
For now, anyways.
At 16 weeks of age (possibly earlier, as we just noticed
it this week), my shih-tzu/mini schnauzer has discovered
that he is a man!!
To the unfortunate suprise of a number of fuzzy slippers
in the apartment.
I am not sure if he knows WHAT he is doing, but it is
sure funny to see him doing it...
He won't be doing it for long though, once training classes
are over and he has all his teeth, he will be going to the vet.
Marcel C. Beaudoin
Pray for the poor slippers, they will never be the same again...
THAT'S INSANE, MACK DADDY <{) : ~ ( >
9 From: Mudbunny
Date: Mon, Dec 23 2002 12:32 pm
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
I always see it as the dog doing it on the chance that they are
getting food. I read somewhere it is the "hope springs eternal" idea.
Sorta like how single guys go out to the bar quite often on the hope
that they get lucky. All it takes is one success (despite hundreds of
failures) to make the positive link.
Marcel
You might have better LUCK if you tie that thread arHOWEND your
puppy's Pee Pee, maybe it'll heighten your enjoyment of his submissive
urination, eh marcel?
Subject: (ASS) Looking for a story (another one)
1 From: Mudbunny
Date: Tues, Dec 10 2002 10:47 am
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Groups: alt.sex.stories
Thanks to the people that replied to my previous post.
The story was Hildy, and I found it on Storiesonline.
My next request is this:
This one is a longish story. More of a novel than anything else. It
involves a man and a younger female (high scchool maybe??). All I
remember is that his house is high tech.. Has voice controls and
everything for the lihjts and stuff like that.
I know it is not much to go on, but I hope it helps.
Me
From: Mudbunny
Date: Wed, Dec 11 2002 12:44 pm
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Groups: alt.sex.stories
Unfortunately, I am quite certain it is his. I think the general plot
is similar to Call Girl Cheerleaders. It starts off with one girl, and
then she invites friends over as well.
Subject: {ASS} Req: Master's Ring
1 From: Chemguy
Date: Sat, Aug 14 1999 12:00 am
Email: Chemguy <m...@hotmail.com>
Groups: alt.sex.stories
I am looking for the rest of a Story Called The Master's Ring. I have
parts 1-3 of 14, but I would like the rest. It looks very interesting
and seems to have a really good plot. Any help would be appreciated.
Please e-mail as attachments or post o the group.
Thanx
Subject: {ASSD} Looking for Story ID
1 From: mudbunny
Date: Mon, Jan 30 2006 3:11 pm
Email: "mudbunny" <marcel.beaud...@gmail.com>
Groups: alt.sex.stories.d
I am looking for the title (or hopefully, a llink) to a story I
remember reading quite a few years ago.
The central character is a man who gets involved in a BDSM
relationship
with some of the senior executives at a corporation where he works. He
is the senior network executive, IIRC.
The story starts out with him as a young child, where he plays D/S
games with his neighbour and she ties his cock with a piece of red
yarn. Years later, he still carries that piece of yarn in his wallet.
He is married, but partway through the story (it is fairly long) his
wife dies and he is distraught.
Partway through the story, the neighbour girl comes back as the head
of
a fairly large business group (I think) and wants to buy him once she
finds out that he named one of the server farms after her.
I have been searching on Google for this story for quite a while now,
but can't seem to find it.
Subject: Help would be greatly appreciated.
6 From: Chemguy
Date: Sat, Jun 5 1999 12:00 am
Email: Chemguy <m...@hotmail.com>
Groups: alt.sex.prostitution
As mentioned previously, incall in Canada is illegal, outcall is
legal.
That being said, most cities have a wide variety of incall providers.
They are generally not harassed by the cops unless there are
complaints
by neighbours. Depending on where you are going, the current law
enforcement attitude may vary. Your best bet would be to check out
Lyla's List at http://www.lyla.com/ . Most, if not all, of your
questions can be answered there.
> That out of the way I have a very stupid question to ask. Never been
> to canada but am going there soon. Is prostitution legal there?
--
Chemguy
**The line between genius and insanity is very**
**fine...Could you please tell me which side I**
**am on???**
You're on the SADIST side of BDSM, marcel the imbecile <{): ~ ) >
From: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Date: 31 Dec 2002 06:29:16 -0800
Subject: Re: [Jerry] Re: New Puppy -
but we both work, what's best "get adjusted" strategy???
There is NOTHING wrong with aversions, when necessary, as a last
resort. Do you have kids Jerry?? Do you know people with kids??
Aversion is, at times, necessary. Your kids reach for the element on
the stove once, you tell them no, twice, tell them no. After a certain
point in time, you have two choices. You can either give them a swat
on the bum, and they probably won't do it again, or you let them touch
the element and they WON'T do it again, garaunteed.
> NOW GET THE HEEL OFF OUR FORUM or study
> your FREE copy of my FREE Wits' End Dog Training
> Method manual and CONTRIBUTE to our forum,
> Marcel, or get the heel outta here.
> What's it gonna be? You gonna continue to make
> yourself out to be a CHUMP PUNK LYING DOG
> ABUSING THUG COWARD like your mentors and
> peers, or are you gonna do what's RIGHT for your
> own dog, Marcel?
You see Jerry. We were having an intelligent, open discussion. I like
discussion. I like the back and forth exchange of ideas. That is what
the internet (that is what society in general) is based upon. You have
good ideas!! You obviously believe in them. The others beloieve in
theirs. The best way to get them to listen to what you have to say
(and listen with an open mind) is to do it rationally and calmly. Not
with insults.
Have a Happy New Year
Marcel C. Beaudoin
Are you fixin to provide the ENTERTRAINMENT, mudbunny?:
Subject: (asp) Need Toronto girl..
2 From: mcb26
Date: Thurs, May 7 1998 12:00 am
Email: m...@hotmail.com
Groups: alt.sex.prostitution
> Ps. please do not recommend anybody associated with Lyla or her list. I
> have seen their posts on this group and can not imagine being with those
> ruffians
Unfortunately for you, you have been mislead. While I haven't tried
anybody directly associated with Lyla, before you make such a quick
decision, you should check out her Lyla's List at
http://www.lyla.com/index2.html
It is pretty damn helpful if you are looking for someone in Toronto
Subject: Req info on San Francisco
1 From: mcb26
Date: Fri, Jun 26 1998 3:00 am
Email: m...@hotmail.com
Groups: alt.sex.prostitution
I will be in San Francisco for the afternoon and evening of
the 9th of July. I just have a couple questions for all of
the experienced ASPers out there.
What local papers should I look in? Are there any hotels
that would give the escort trouble when she shows up to
get to my room?
Any recommendations for someone who doesn't have a
lot of experience in this field?
I would be looking for a young (mid 20's) escort, with
larger than average breasts, long hair, that will allow
me FULL use of the time.
Preferably she would be very enthusiastic, enjoy
(or give a very good illusion of that) her work,
and not mind recieving, as well as giving pleasure.
Thanx
-----------------
Seems you're a bit of a mommy's boy, eh marcel?
Perhaps you was weaned too early, eh chump?
3 From: mcb26
Date: Sun, Feb 14 1999 12:00 am
Email: m...@hotmail.com
Groups: alt.sex.prostitution
Try Lyla's List
They show only the most recent reviews, but from what
I've ead, you can't go wrong with Annik, an independant.
MCB
Subject: (ASS) Looking for a story
1 From: Mudbunny
Date: Fri, Dec 6 2002 5:30 pm
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Groups: alt.sex.stories
Hey there. I am looking for a story that has stuck in my head. It
involves a husband and wife. They go to a party, and the wife thinks
that the husband has cheated on her, so she ties him up and cheats on
him with someone (his best friend I think???). They then, staying in
the same house, try to work it out.
Can anyone help????
Subject: {ASSD} - Looking for another story
1 From: Mudbunny
Date: Thurs, Apr 17 2003 3:46 pm
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Groups: alt.sex.stories.d
Hey. Looking for another story.
This one is a lot more dom/sub. It starts when the guy is young, and
he is playing dom/sub games with a neighbour, where he is the sub. His
nieghbour ties a string or something to his cock to show she owns him.
Later on in life, he goes to work for a web firm, and finds that the
owners are all women and they all dominate him. They have a drug that
enables him to stay hard but not orgasm. It is a very long story. At
some point, his wife dies (is killed by a drunk driver maybe??) and
they comfort him. There is a challenge where he tries to last a
weekend without begging for mercy or somethoing like that. Later on,
the firm is to host a dom/sub website, and the owner of the website is
the girl from his childhood.
Thanks again for your help
Subject: Looking for stories
1 From: Mudbunny
Date: Thurs, Apr 17 2003 2:46 pm
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Groups: alt.sex.stories.d
This is a fairly longish story that I am looking for. It hsa a single
guy in it who has a house that is pretty well computer controlled. He
can tell the house to turn on the lights and stuff like that.
A teenager (a neighbour or friend's daughter) comes over and they get
romantically involved. Her friends come over, and I think he has sex
with them as well.
Another story is this. Again, it is a single guy with a house. He has
a neighbour with some sons and a daughter. He pays the sons to do yard
worlk as they get older. As each one goes off to college, the next
youngest one gets the job. Finally, the daughter gets the job. They
get romantically involved as well.
Thanks
Subject: puppy advise please
11 From: Mudbunny
Date: Mon, Dec 30 2002 9:32 am
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
A friend had a golden retriever with the same problem, towards me!!
Whenever I would show up, she would come up to me, whine, flop on her
back, and then do her best "old Faithful" imitation. Our solution was
to do as was mentioned previously, and greet her outside. After a
while (about 3 years!!!) she grew out of it.
Good luck
Marcel C. Beaudoin
------------------------
Seems you're into "water sports" and Bondage
an Discipline an Sado Masochism, eh marcel
the imbecile lyin DOG ABUSIN SADIST?
Subject: New puppy...a few questions
From: Mudbunny
Date: Tues, Dec 31 2002 1:06 pm
Email: m...@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Groups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
With our puppy (admittedly not a lab, a shih-tzu/schnauzer cross) who
was/is VERY bitey, we found the OW, followed by a pulling away of the
hand/foot whatever when they bite too hard worked. Occasionally, if
they continued, we held his mouth closed with our hand (much like
mother does with her pups) until he started whining. After a couple of
weeks of this, his bites are more mouthing than anything, and it is
only whn he is REALLY excited that he bites too hard that requires us
to pull away.
Marcel C. Beaudoin
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 23:43:05 GMT
Subject: Jerry Howe's (The Amazing Puppy Wizard) Free Training Manual
From: Anne (a...@bigfoot.com)
Subject: Jerry Howe's Free Training Manual
Date: 2002-05-17 12:59:05 PST
I adopted my little shepherd mix pup, Ginger about
a month ago and enrolled us in obedience school
so she could learn to be a good house dog.
I love the classes and she is doing very, very well,
but a few of the techniques the trainer is teaching
us make me a little uncomfortable.
In the instances where I tried to use them exactly,
poor Ginger ended up cowering away from me and
looking sad and scared, and that bothered me.
Our trainer's main theory seems to be contained in
what he told us: Your dog has to fear your wrath more
than he looks forward to any pleasure gained by
disobeying you, whether it be to steal food or chase
a rabbit or just ignore a command.
I dont want Ginger to fear my wrath, or be intimidated
by me, but I also want her to listen! A few times, I
ignored the training method we were taught in school,
and tried just gently correcting her and showing her
again how to do what I wanted, along with lots and lots
of encouraging praise and she seemed to learn more
quickly that way than when I was yelling NO at the top
of my voice.
I downloaded Jerry Howe's Wits End manual and
read through it, and so much of it rang true to what
my own experience with Ginger has been. She learns
if I yell and yank her leash, but she is also unhappy
and frightened. She learns if I correct her gently and
encourage her, and she actually enjoys our training
sessions then.
So even though I havent used Mr. Howe's techniques
exactly yet, it seems like they would work very well for
me and Ginger!
I especially was interested in the part about submission
and rolling your dog over, as that is exactly what the trainer
told us to do, even if the dog was scared and snapped when
you did it!
According to Mr. Howe's manual, thats a terrible thing to do to
your dog, and after seeing a cowering little pup in class used as
an example in front of 15 other dogs, I have to agree with him!
My Ginger rolls over all the time, to have her tummy rubbed, and
Im glad I never had to try to force her like the trainer advised,
as now I see I might have harmed her psychologically by doing
that!
I just wanted to say that I was very happy to get the information
Mr. Howe provided, since a lot of it just validated my own doubts
about our trainer's methods and I feel better now about ignoring
some of them. Im going to read through the Wits End manual again
and try out some of the methods there.
I dont care if Ginger becomes a superdog...I just want
her to be a happy house dog that comes when I call
without fail, and doesnt jump on people or furniture or
steal food -- the usual good house dog behaviors.
Im much more comfortable with Mr. Howe's methods
for achieving this.
Has anyone else used this manual? Any feedback
from other users would really be appreciated.
Anne
AND LIKE THIS, marcel the imbecile idiot liar
dog abuser coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN:
From: Marisa (mari...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Jerry Howe's Free Training Manual
Date: 2002-05-17 13:10:26 PST
Hello-
I agree with you!
I didn't want to scare my dog, or hurt her, or pull on her leash,
or any of that. I wanted her to want to work with me, and do
things with me the right way on her own. Or else I don't have a
dog, I would have a robot dog with a sad face a broken spirit.
I have had a German Shepherd pup. And a couple mixes.
They can be challanging. But let me tell you, the reward
you get from having a trained, happy German Shep far out
weighs the weeks or months or training.
And you DON'T have to hurt them to get them to listen. :)
I am now reading Jerrys manual and working with
it for my second day. My roomates, my boyfriend,
and me have already noticed that I have more "control"
without actually working harder to get it with her.
I really enjoy Jerrys "distraction" methods of sort,
the really are working fast for my Jack Russell.
Stick with it! and hey the worst that can happen
is you instill a good feeling with your dog, who
won't be afriad of you throwing her on her back,
or jerking her leash and possibly creating a
spinal injury :)
marisa
AND NHOWE for TODAY'S post from marcel the imbecile
idiot liar phd dog abusin psychoclHOWEN SEXUAL SADIST:
"Marcel Beaudoin" <marcel.beaud...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9861819905C37...@130.133.1.4...
> shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote in
> news:4ppnqtF...@individual.net:
>> Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
>>> Aren't prong collars supposed to provide self-correction to the dog??
>>> When they pull, it provides some discomfort, when they stop, it
>>> stops. Isn't giving a correction with a prong collar wrong??
>> Not necessarily. It depends on how the collar is being used. If
>> it's being used to curb pulling on lead, then allowing the dog to
>> self-correct is generally the recommended advice. A prong collar
>> can also be used by the handler to apply a physical correction.
> Ahhh, thanks!!
Hey marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser
coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN?
HOWE abHOWET The Amazing Puppy Wizard drops your
name, marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser mental case
phd psychoclHOWEN?:
YOU WROTE:
> Earlier this week, while I was occupied, Moogli grabbed
> something and ran into the bedroom. When Gen went to
> grab it from him, he growled and bit her on the knuckle. :(
Say "ADIOS, Gen..."
> She freaked out, crying.
INDEEDY.
> Needless to say, he swallowed whatever it waws that he stole.
Yeah...
> I also figured out why he bit her.
Cause you've ABUSED HIM, marcel.
> After talking with her, I discovered that, preeviously, when
> she was taking something from him, if he growled, she would
> swat him.
SEE? SEE?? SEE???
Subject: Re: GL vs. Prong
Date: 2002-12-23 11:14:11 PST
"Mudbunny" <m...@hotmail.com>
A.K.A marcel the clown mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.urka-gurka.com
wrotein message news:ea2dcca7.02122...@posting.google.com
Well, time to add my 2 cents (Canadian, so about half
a cent american) worth. When I first started looking into
getting a dog, I wandered out on the net and found info
on a prong collar, and when I looked at it, it looked like
this HORRID thing designed to hurt dogs.
Then, I saw on some show (don't remember which)
info on choke-collars vs. prong collars. The host
actually put one of each on HIMSELF and tried it.
HE found that the choke collar did what it was designed
to do, choke the living daylights out of whoever has it on.
The prong collar on the other hand provided even
pressure all the way around the neck, and he could
take a lot harder of a pull before it got really uncomfortable.
Marcel Beaudoin
And THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS GO INSANE.
Thank you Mudbunny. Now we know HOWE COME we
got lying dog abusing Thug Cowards hurting dogs
and believing they're not hurtin them...
LIKE THIS:
Dogs aggress on children BECAUSE of their owner's
efforts to TRAIN them, as DEMONSTRATED in the thread
"I don't THINK I need to worry":
From: Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaud...@scintrextrace.com>
Date: 15 Sep 2005 14:47:08 GMT
Subject: Re: I don't THINK I need to worry....
"White Monkey" <k.m.c.oo...@chello.nl> wrote in
news:43283c75$0$11071$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl:
> Thus I think instead of worrying about this or
> trying harder to limit dog/baby/chew-thing
> encounters, I should just keep an eye on things.
> What are you folks' takes on this?
I am in the same situation.
When Emilie was born, Moogli wouldn't go near her unless
she was asleep and not moving. He was absolutely terrified
of her and wouldn't come within 5 feet of her.
Pulling him closer resulted in the lean-away and much
struggling. He has gotten a lot better in that he will
sniff her quite a bit if she is sleeping or not looking
at him, but he is still wary of her.
(She, OTOH, is in love with him. If he is moving,
the rest of us might as well not exist)
Right now, Gen and I are going with the idea that
any interaction Moogli has with her is good. He is
pretty much a food whore, so we are putting treats
by her and getting him to take them, petting him
with he hands when he is relly calm, that sort of
thing.
Personally, we are just making sure that Moogli isn't
pushed (too much or too fast) in his interactions with
Emilie. If he is chewing on a rawhide or something, we
try to keep her grabby hands away from him.
If he is playing with something on the other hand, we
will take it, put it by her and get him to come and
take it.
He has growled at her once or twice, but Moogli talks
by growling, so it wasn't a worry. He has also snapped
at her once, but that was because she had gotten a really
good grab (as only babies can do) of his tail and yanked,
hard. He would snap at me if I did that as well.
--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
Local: Tues,Dec 31 2002 11:29 am
Subject: Re: Weekend update (With Marcel and Moogli)
"I think the best thing to do is to let him run and
scream, eventualkly he will learn that they will not
kill him. I will be close and let him hide behind me
if necessary, but I won't pick him up. I will also
ask the trainer to keep a close eye on him when they
play." Marcel C. Beaudoin
From: Marcel Beaudoin
Date: Mon, Feb 17 2003 2:16 pm
Email: Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.com>
Lee DeRaud <lee.der...@boeing.com> wrote in
news:ei625v0supaipeng9...@4ax.com:
> I'll bet the *other* three times are well worth the
> price of admission, at least to a third-party observer.
> Lee
To me, it is kinda scary. We have become kinda used to
Moogli wandering around on the couch (except when he
decides that the best place to watch TV is from my chest,
in front of my head) so often the only warning I get of a
successful attempt is seeing him chewing on something,
taking it away from him, and giving it back to Gen.
Unsuccessful attempts are notified by screams of OW!!OW!!OW!!
I have been told that this situation is not funny.
Not one bit.
--
*******************************************
Marcel Beaudoin
Remove urka-gurka to reply
From: Marcel Beaudoin
Date: Thurs, Apr 3 2003 10:49 am
Email: Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.com>
"shelly" <scouvre...@bluemarble.net> wrote in news:b6hfjf$5cu7a$1@ID-
39167.news.dfncis.de:
> In news:Xns93525C388ACFDmb...@130.133.1.4,
> Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.com> typed:
>> I am a very light sleeper and wake up a couple times a
>> night. Don't know why, I just do (might come from 6 years
>> in the artillery reserves).
> or you wake yourself up snoring!
Entirely possible. I did that on Saturday afternoon. I was
sleeping on the couch in the afternoon, and would wake
myself up with my snoring. Gen was on the otherside of
the apartment working on the laptop. SHe said it was loud
from where she was.
This time, Moogli didn't react to my snoring, he just laid
down with his head jammed into my armpit. (To block
the noise maybe??)
>> I calm him down, and he spent the rest of the
>> night sleeping on my chest (advantage of a small dog) or
>> beside me, leaning against me through the covers.
> both of my dogs have vivid dreams (lots of movement and
> vocalization). i've never had one of them wake up afraid,
> though. poor Moogli.
It's the first time he has woken my up with his dreaming.
He was a bit panicked for the first couple of minutes, but
calmed down prertty quickly after that.
--
*******************************************
Marcel Beaudoin & Moogli
Remove urka-gurka to reply
Subject: Weekly update (by Marcel for Moolgi) - LONG
1From: Marcel Beaudoin
Date: Mon, Aug 25 2003 10:50 am
Email: Marcel Beaudoin <m...@privacy.net>
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sorry for the delay, but real life things
(like a wedding) got in the way.
Executive Summary:
Moogli is not a fan of my brother
Statement from my mom about Moogli
Moolgi goes on vacation.
Moogli's acrobatics
Moogli discovers that he is (was??) a man
The race circuit
Some of you may have gotten this from previous posts. Moogli
is not a fan of my brother. The first time my brother showed
up in the apartment was when Gen went to pick up Shawn from
the bus station. They got home, let Moogli out of the cage,
and Moogli spent the day either hiding behind Gen or barking
at my brother from undereath the futon or the living room table.
Wierd little dog. However, any uncertainty would disappear when
it came time for my brother to take a nap. Then, Moogli would
decide to nap with him. However, once my brother would wake up
again, it was back to fear.
The fear thing lasted longer than I thought, mainly because my
brother spent a lot of time out with friends, thus Moogli never
really had to spend a lot of time around him. Nearest I can figure,
Shawn wierded Moolgi out because he has the same general body
type as me, moves like I do, but, he is *not* me.
Once Shawn started spending some time at home, Moogli got a bit
better, but he was still uncertain. He would crouch, moving forward
*very* slowly, until my brother would make a "threatening" gesture
(like turning his head, talking, or any other normal movement) at
which point Moolgi would rununder the futon.
This graduated to apoint where he would move up to Shawn, sniff him,
and then run around the futon, through the kitchen and do the same
thing from the other side of the sofa. He did this for about 30
minutes.
<snip idiocy>
*******************************************
Marcel Beaudoin & Moogli
HOWEDY marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog and child
abusing punk thug coward Ph.D. psychoclHOWEN,
"Marcel Beaudoin" <marcel.beaud...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98289F2F760A3...@130.133.1.4...
> "jordan.mcche...@gmail.com" <jordan.mcche...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:1156361869.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>>> Have you done anything to make him enjoy being in the crate?
>>> What crate training have you done?
That's sheer idiocy.
>> I made it as comfortable as possible for him before. With bedding,
>> toys, and treats, and even covering it with a sheet for privacy. None
>> of this stopped the whining. I have him eating in his crate, I can get
>> him to go into his crate for a treat. He's not terrified of the crate,
>> he just doesn't like being in it at night when we are there.
> Than you just need to be patient IMO.
That so, marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser Ph.D.
psychoclHOWEN?
> He will grow accustomed to sleeping in the crate.
Some dogs DIE from being locked in boxes and ignored when they cry.
> It may take some time, but he will grow accustomed to it.
Ahhh, the voice of EXXXPERIENCE!:
Puppy Nipping/Biting Advice
5 From: Marcel Beaudoin
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2003 12:12 pm
Email: "Marcel Beaudoin" <m...@hotmail.com>
Groups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
"KeithMorri" <keithmo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030210100213...@mb-cu.aol.com...
> My 10-week-old lab, Cooper, has started to aggressively nip and bite.
> He has taken a particular fancy to my hands, fingers, arms, feet, legs,
> pretty much whatever he can get.
> I want to stop this as soon as possible but so far nothing seems to be
working.
> Here's what I've done so far -
> 1. The high-pitched "OWWW". Doesn't phase him, actually it seems to make
> him more aggressive.
> 2. Putting my finger down his throat. Also doesn't work.
> He'll stop, gag, and resume biting.
At 10 weeks old, they aren't all that bright. It may take
a couple of weeks/months doing #1 for it to take effect.
Like Montana said, you have to ignore them completely for
a couple of minutes. That is what mom and the other pups
would do when they played too rough. They learn that biting
hard stops play, ergo, biting hard is bad.
This is what we did with our pup. It took a couple of months,
and even now he bites hard when we play too rough, but I say
OWWW and he stops, and usually kisses the offended finger/wrist.
Marcel
Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in
news:Fri95B37CF743490au...@rocky-dog.com:
> Marcel Beaudoin said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>> Hate to break it to you Matt, but like I said in the e-mail
>> I sent you, there was no forgery. All the posts in this
>> thread attributed to me were written by me.
> Sorry to not get back to you on email (I'm dealing with a ton of
> that right now), but there were a couple of things that led me
> to believe it wasn't you - the main one being that you tried
> relocating Moogli to the basement.
NP. I figured that was it. As for relocating him to
the basement, that was made under a great deal
of duress.
Once I told Genevieve that if she wanted
him to stop crying, that she would be going
down the stairs all the time, the idea got shelved.
Now he is in the bedroom in the corner. Settles down
quite quietly at night, no squirtguns needed any more.
Funny story with that. When I leave for work, Moogli
gets to sleep the rest of the morning in bed with Gen.
Yesterday morning, when Gen woke up, she couldn't
feel him in bed with her so she looked around in a panic.
The first thought in her head was that she had squished
him flat. (I know I know, but as Gen gets more pregnant,
her brains are turning to mush. I expect to come home
one day to find whiteout on the laptop) She looked and
looked in the bed under the covers for him in a panic.
She looked downtairs in the living room to see if he had
gone down to one of the couches and crashed on a pillow.
Finally, she gets back upstairs and sees him asleep (still)
in his cage.
--
Marcel and Moogli
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
> Marcel and Moogli
> http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
"I Know The Difference Between Testimonials And Demonstrated
Examples, So, Please Provide Examples, NOT Testimonials.
ANYONE Can Name-Drop-", marcel the imbecile idiot liar <{); ~ ) >
Hey marcel? Ask Lucy for some EXXXAMPLES of HOWE she CURED
her dog's aggression and separation anXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY
INSTANTLY, amongst other AMAZING behaviors like fear of thunder?
HOWE'S THAT for NAME DROPPIN, marcel?
LIKE THIS:
"Marcel Beaudoin" mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.urka-gurka.com
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
wrote in message news:goaZ9.46900$j5.154010@news...
> Well. The weekend gave us some good news and some
> bad news for Moogli. Start with the bad news. Moogli
> gets a participation certificate from his training class.
> The fact that he shuts down with other dogs around him
> makes it really difficult for him to do anything. Stacey
> (the trainer) recommended putting him through another
> session of puppy training. It sounds like a good idea, but
> I don't think I will do it at PetSmart. (Sorry Leah<grin>)
> I don't think that they would be able to offer a class size
> that won't shut Moogli down in the times that we can make it.
> So we are going to look around the area, see if there are
> any other trainers available that might be able to help.
> On the plus side, Moogli has gotten better in his interactions
> with other dogs. While he still doesn't play with them, he doesn't
> run in terror from them either.
> He will walk away.
> A couple times, when they (the other dogs) would come up
> and he would not be able to move, he would growl and bark
> at them. But he would let them sniff him! Granted, he wasn't
> sniffing back and he was curling his lips at them.
> Oh well, you win some and you lose some.
> Marcel
DOG TRAININ AIN'T LUCK... masters degree holder...
The Puppy Wizzzard sez BWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!
Our university professors are on the horns of a few dilemmas.
The Puppy Wizzzard has determined their methods cause behavior
problems... we're SUIN em for MALPRACTICE and ANIMAL ABUSE.
You won't see them respond here, cause of their INSECURITY
FEAR AND MISTRUST. They don't trust themselves to be RIGHT...
The Puppy Wizzzard is fixin to drop the hammer on the entire
industry all at WONCE.
HOWEDY marcel the clown,
"Marcel Beaudoin" <mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.urka-gurka.com>
wrote in message news:V%QZ9.48724$j5.162977@news...
> Just try to keep an eye on him.
That's HOWE COME the dog will do that BEHIND YOUR BACK.
> When he goes to chew on something you don't
> want, distract him
BRIEFLY, NON PHYSICALLY and INSTANTLY PRAISE for
5-15 seconds and allow the pup to CONTINUE as he
chooses.
> then give him a toy he can chew on.
NO. THAT'S HOWE COME YOU CAN'T TRAIN THE PUP.
HE NEEDS TO THINK OF AND ATTEMPT THE BEHAVIOR
UNTIL IT'S FULLY EXTINGUISHED THRU REPEATED
SUCCESSIVE SUCCESSFULLY DISTRACTED AND PRAISED
BRIEF VARIABLE INTERRUPTIONS AND THE FREEDOM TO
THINK IT THROUGH TILL EXTINCTION.
Too bad you're a phd... marcel the clown... you
add a new dimension to STUPID.
> Once he starts chewing, praise him.
NO. That's IDIOCY. The dog has been taken away from
the problem BEFORE HE CAN LEARN not to DO IT!
> Eventually he will learn that he gets rewards
> from chewing on his toys.
"Oh well, another 19 months and maybe he'll
have outgrown his chewing."
BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
That's HOWE COME the "EXXXPERTS" tell you
to lock the dog in a box.
> With Moogli, it took about a month and a half of this
> before he learned not to chew on shoes.
Takes The Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Students aboHOWET WON DAY to do THAT.
> Now there is only once or twice a week
> that he wanders around the apartment
> with a shoe in his mouth.
BWWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
GOOD LUCK, marcel the goddamnedest freakin most
stupidest most undeservedly arrogant mealy mouthed
doubletalking lying dog abusing Punk Thug Coward
clown in town...
BWWAAHJAJAJAJAJAAA!!!
> Marcel
Sun,May 15 2005 9:27 am
Subject: Re: What does "bupkis" really mean
HOWEDY marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser
coward active acute long term incurable mental
case phd psychoclHOWEN,
Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
> lucyaa...@claque.net wrote in news:1116000208.026381.280780
> @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> > Yeah. "It doesn't work", but allows me to walk my dogs
> > without the bolting, pulling and the wanting the other
> > dogs to diediedie, that TRAINED dogs seem to be so good
> > at doing, every day.
> Hmmm. Let me try to explain it a bit clearer.
Your own dog bit your Mrs. on accHOWENT of you jerk an choke IT.
> By the words that you used, you indicated that if you
> wanted to get your dog to not bother the other dog, you
> use "good Boy" to distract them
No. We DON'T "distract" the dog with PRAISE, we REASSURE the dog.
> and get them to focus on you.
No marcel the imbecile. THAT makes the dog DEPENDENT on
his CON-TROLLER being IN CON-TROLL <{) ; ~ ) >
> The thing is, if your (Jerry's) technique actually worked,
> after the first few times, you woudn't need to distract tham,
RIGHT. But ONLY if we BRIEFLY ALTERNATELY and NON PHYSICALLY
DISTRACT and PRAISE AFTER PRAISE IN ADVANCE, marcel .
HERE'S HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual STUDENTS all over the Whole Wild World DO IT
EFFECTIVELY NEARLY INSTANTLY GENTLY and FOR FREE, to boot:
"ziggy" <y...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:98c6b5cb.03012...@posting.google.com...
Well, thanks for taking the time to reply as you
kindly did. Yeah, ok, I think I got to hand it to you
lol So it's back to the manual for a while and I'll
let you know how we get on! I'm still eating my
humble pie so excuse crumbs ~;0)
I really didn't think the rewarding bad behaviour
had a chance in hell but you have proved me wrong......
He was blanking me like crazy the other day, I lost
my rag (Got the flu so on a short leash myself lol)
Gave it a 'Good boy, yeah you really are!' and he
did what I'd been asking him to do for 5 mins straight
away lol Doh!!
Tickles me now when he's up to no good and I say
Good Boy, he turns straight back to my sweety and
he doesn't even know it!
It's applied physchology all the way with Dobies
in particular and I know it's often better to turn a
blind eye rather than confront at that particular
time, I've always distracted rather than corrected
at this young age but I'm going your way!!
Thanks all
ziggy
This humble pie tastes nice actually ~;0)
ziggy--
> they would be coming to you on your command
No marcel. The COME COMMAND IS the come command, not priase.
HOWEver, you GOT TO PRAISE WITH the COME COMMAND or you'll
not be followin the SCIENTIFICALLY CONSISTENT METHOD, marcel,
and you'll EXXXTINGUISH the INSTALLATION of the COME COMMAND
as a CONDITIONAL REFLEX.
HOWEver, askin the dog to COME WILL NOT TRAIN HIM NOT TO DO THAT.
> *without* the need to distract them first.
You're full of crap, marcel. You got NO IDEA HOWE to install
a conditional reflex or you wouldn't be JERKIN and CHOKIN
your own dog who FEARS you and your brother and GRHOWELS at
you when you carry the paper and GRHOWELED at your brother
for two weeks when he visited on accHOWENT of HE LOOKS LIKE
YOU.
That SEZ IT ALL, don't it, marcel.
> Question for you, what phrase do you use when you want to
> praise your dogs?
Same same, marcel. UNLESS we've CONDITIONED a string of
relaxing reinforcers to be triggered when we need the
dog to RELLY REALLY calm DHONEN INSTNATLY, like when
there's a thunder storm or maybe sumpthin like THIS
> > Wasn't there someone here last year (who writes books
> > with dogs in it) who said essentially the same thing?
That was LeeCharlesKelley who likeWIZE LEARNED HOWE
to understand and use PRAISE according to The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
From: "LeeCharlesKelley" <kelleymet...@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:14:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
Leah:>I did try to get my head around your theories, but
I can't buy them. praise *reinforces* the dog's behavior<
I'll give you an easier example: say you're walking through
the park with your dog. She starts walking a little ahead
of you but not isn't intensely focused on something in the
environment, she's just a little restless to move ahead.
You praise her entususiastically and she turns and comes
back to your side. If praise were only a reinforcer, praising
her for moving ahead of you would have made her feel that *that*
behavior was good and reinforced it, right?
She would have been more likely to
stay in front of you than come back.
So in this example how and why did praise have the
opposite effect and *change* the behavior rather
than reinforce it?
From: "LeeCharlesKelley" <kelleymet...@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:46:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
John:>I dunno. In both of these situations, praise
stopped the undesirable behavior. I would guess that
the praise meant more to your dog at that point than
the object he was after.
That's it pretty much in a nutshell. The dog was looking
for a way to relieve mild emotional tension. The behavior
was given up voluntarily when the dog found another source
of emotional satisfaction, being praised. Praise works,
as both a reward and a "correction", because it
changes the dog's emotional state. Behavior is caused by
emotion. When you change a dog's emotional state, you
automatically change his behavior.
John: > What happens if that balance is disturbed. What
happens if the object your dog is going after means more
to them than your praise,
Then praise wouldn't have any effect on the behavior. In
order to use praise in this way you have to be able to "read"
the dog's emotions.
Although, I take that back. That's not necessarily true.
I once got an aggressive dog at the dog run to almost give
up her aggression by praising her every time she growled at
a dog who came too close. I wasn't doing it on purpose.
I was just trying to calm her nerves, but I noticed that
when I began praising her, her psychic buffer zone started
about fifteen feet away from where we were sitting.
But after praising her for ten minutes or so, she'd let a
dog get within five feet or less before the growls started
escaping from her throat. She even did the thing with her
nose, where she'd start to try and sniff the dog from her
perch on the park bench before the growl in her throat got
loose.
I thought she was very sweet underneath her swagger and felt
that with enough encouragement she might be able to get off
her ass and actually go play with some of the other dogs,
but her owner thought I was "encouraging" her aggression and
gave us both a good scolding.
She was quite right to scold me. I hadn't been asked to change
her dog's behavior. But the dog hadn't been doing a damn thing
when the owner came over, grabbed her roughly by the collar, held
her snout and shouted in her face.
John:>or what happens if you do not praise them for a
while when they attempt to perform the undesired behavior?
I'm not sure I understand the question. Praising a bad
behavior, if done in the right situation, with the right
timing, and with four or five repetitions, should get the
dog to totally give up the desire to produce the behavior
ever again, at least in that location.
Remember, the desire to produce the behavior comes from
internal emotional tension. If that tension is resolved
through praise (or whatever tactic you use), the dog will
have learned that the behavior it had wanted to produce
didn't get a successful result, but that listening to you
(or responding to whatever tactic you used to relieve the
tension) *did*.
> > So, I used his "technique" on Pan's stick chewing.
Yeah, but NON VIOLENT METHODS DO NOT WORK for DOG ABUSERS:
Re: Your Training Modality is Driving Your Dogs Crazy
Leah:>>Is there something wrong with being curious?
Morrison:>You're not curious, Leah. IMO, you're just wishy-washy.
Kelley: I don't have the same history that you seem to have with
Leah, but I hardly think being open to exploring new ideas qualifies
as being "wishy-washy". To me it shows intelligence. But then,
from what I've seen, you've demonstrated a singular kind of black
and-white mentality and a highly ignorant closed-mindedness.
Morrison:>You keep thinking that there's some "new" method
out there that will VOILA!, magically transform you into a
great trainer, and overnight, too.
> It just doesn't work that way.
Kelley: Actually, that's *exactly* how it worked with me.
Within the first day of using these techniques I went from
becoming a run-of-the-mill dog trainer to being pretty damn
good, if I do say so myself, and all simply by testing the
techniques, just to see if they worked.
I've said from the beginning that if I can get the kind of
amazing results I do when I'm not really a dog trainer at
heart, but a writer, then someone who's really a dog trainer
at heart would become a far better trainer than I am instantly,
just by using these methods.
Somewhere along the line, however, I discovered a dirty little
secret about the mentality of most dog trainers: they only
*became* trainers because they liked the feeling of power and
control it gave them. If that's the case with you, then you
definitely wouldn't like natural dog training because it
ultimately teaches a dog how to control his own behavior.
In fact in some ways, it forces you to turn your need for
control over to the dog because the method only works when
you put your trust in a dog's natural instincts instead of
fighting against them all the time.
That's because when you put yourself in alignment with a dog's
instincts, the dog will naturally obey you under any and all
circumstances because group harmony and cooperation, when
properly nurtured, are the most fundamental aspects of a dog's
nature.
I came across the following quote recently, and though I have
no idea who Edward Hoagland is, I think what he says here speaks
volumes: "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try
to train him to be semi-human.
The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of
becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland
Leah:>>This "praise the dog when he misbehaves" thing keeps
coming up, and nobody has been able to explain it to me.
Morrison:>That's because no one can.
Actually, Jerry Howe explains it pretty well.
And as for the incident I related where I praised my
dog when he found a juicy chicken breast and my praise
caused him to drop it, and subsequently got him to stop
scavenging altogether, merely by praising him everytime
he found something, the answer is pretty clear.
He didn't pick up that chicken breast because he was hungry,
he did it because he was looking for something to do that
would satisfy an inner emotional need, relating to his instincts.
When I praised him, suddenly and very enthusiastically, he
dropped the chicken breast because the praise provided him
with more emotional satisfaction than the chicken breast
did at that particular moment.
You could look at this as being an example of pure operant
conditioning, if you like (though you'd be wrong), but it
would still mean that you would have to give up your beliefs
about what praise is and how and why it works, and you don't
strike me as someone who's capable of even *questioning* your
beliefs, let alone capable of giving them up.
Morrison:>every single method out there is based on CC
and/or OC. That's a fact.
No, it's not a fact. The only reason it seems factual to
you is because the basic premise of behavioral science is
tautological in nature (and also because, IMO, you have a
tiny mind).
In my estimation it's more likely that there are little
green men on Mars than that what you think is operant
conditioning is what's really taking place when a dog
learns *anything*.
Dogs do not learn things by association or by repetition or by
trial and error, but through their emotions, pure and simple.
Even Pavlov said: "Positive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic
significance at a given moment, serve as the reinforcement."
Of course, even Pavlov got it wrong on the most basic level,
since there really is no such thing as a reinforcement, but
that's another story for another day.
---------------------------
> > Before, I would just ask her to drop it/leave it.
No, suja would JERK and CHOKE IT and SCREAM "LEAVE IT"
as per taragreen2's INSTRUCTIONS which she NEVER FINISHED
TEACHIN US on accHOWENT of she got CONGESTED.
> > After, I would tell her she's a good girl when she
> > picked up or was about to pick up a stick.
INDEED. PUNISHMENT and INTIMDIDATION are HOWE COME
you got to CONTINUE SCREAMIN "LEAVE IT" and jerking
and choking the dog someMOORE as suja's POSTED CASE
HISTORY will clearly reveal, as will yours, marcel.
> > Upshot was that I had a very happy, waggy tailed
> > dog who settled down to chew the stick.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
AS OPPOSED to havin a VERY UNHAPPY dog DOIN THE SAME SAME.
> > Clearly, she was relieved that I had come to my
> > senses and recognized that sticks are an essential
> > part of the doggie diet.
CLEARLY, PUNISHMENT DERRANGES BEHAVIORS.
> Hey Lucy!!!
Hey marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser
coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN!!!
> Obviously, based on your own words "A theory - ANY theory -
> is worthy only as long as it is supported by the experimental
> data. ONE discordant experiment and the theory is in bad trouble. "
INDEEDY! NON VIOLENT METHODS DO NOT WORK FOR DOG
ABUSING MENTAL CASES like yourself, marcel the
imbecile idiot liar dog abuser coward mental case
phd psychoclHOWEN <{): ~ ) >
> In Message-ID: <1122919044.441562.48...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
> Jerry's method is in "bad trouble".
HARDLY, marcel. If you EXXXPERT DOG ABUSERS STUDIED
and FOLLOWED THE METHODS PRECISELY you'd GET your own
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS JUST LIKE
HOWE ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students from ALL OVER The
WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT RIGHT HERE.
You know, the WONS YOU CALL LIARS, remember marcel?
> --
> Marcel and Moogli
> http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
LIKE THIS:
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:46:32 -0500
Subject: Re: New record (Ninnyboy, Jerry Howe) -
"I Know The Difference Between Testimonials And
Demonstrated Examples, So, Please Provide Examples,
NOT Testimonials. ANYONE Can Name-Drop-
HOWEDY marcel the clown,
"Marcel Beaudoin" <mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.urka-gurka.com>
wrote in message news:TqQZ9.48305$j5.162782@news...
> Aww crap. That's what I get for posting at 7:45 when I'm
> not awake yet. Sorry for the crosspost everyone...
"Mudbunny" <m...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea2dcca7.0212...@posting.google.com...
> jho...@bellsouth.net (The Puppy Wizard) wrote in message
<news:92F3BF...@216.168.3.30>...
> > Sounds like you're doing perfectly...
BWEAAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> > That's HOWE COME I'm here...
That, and to RUB IT IN BUT GOOD, to boot.
> > cause what you're being taught is DEAD WRONG.
Yeah... The Puppy Wizzzard likes to HURT.
> > <}TPW;~} >
> OK, it's kinda boring at work right now, so I'll bite.
Can your chin reach your butt???
> Can you, WITHOUT relying on rhetoric or name-calling,
You don't like being proven DEAD WRONG by a uneducated
shade tree shit kicking dog trainer tellin you HOWER university
professors are givin you a bum steer, ESPECIALLY after you
done gone and blown your INHERITANCE on a degree that
The Puppy Wizzzard JUST PROVED his HALF TRUTH...
> AND providing concrete examples,
The Puppy Wizzzard prefers to use DEMON-STRATED
SELF DISCIPLINE as EXXXAMPLE. That's HOWE COME
The Puppy Wizzzard doesn't force bribe punish
scold confine correct and mishandle dogs, cause
they're VERY SENSITIVE, like PHD'S... BWEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
WELCOME TO WWW WITS' END DOG TRAINING FOOL SCHOOL.
> tell me how what I am being taught is wrong,
START BY LOOKIN AT YOUR POSTIN HISTORY THE PAST MONTH.
> and what I should do instead.
EVERYBODY ELSE SEZ THEY KILLFILED JERRY SO THEY
DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND BE PROVEN
LIARS AND FACE RIDICULE.
> Marcel C. Beaudoin
The Puppy Wizzzard wouldn't RIDICULE a Phd... cause HE'D
PROBALBY FALLA OUTTA HIS ARMCHAIR BUSTIN A GUT
LIKE DIDDLER'S DOG LAUGHIN HIS ARSE OFF AND FALL
INTO YOUR MALARKEY PILED HIGH AND DEEP.
BWAAAAHAHAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAA!!!
> N.B. Having finished my PhD,
Yeah... It'll COME IN HANDY when The Puppy Wizzzard
WRITES HIS BOOK about SHAMING THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY...
YOU'RE THE PUPPY WIZZZARD'S CANNON FODDER, marcel the
goddamnedest freakin stupidest most undeservedly arrogant
mealy mouthed doubletalking lying dog abusing clown in town...
BWWAAHJAJAJAJAJAAA!!!
> I know the difference between testimonials
Testimonials? You mean the SCORES of FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Students who've REPORTED 100%
TOTAL NON FORCE CONTROL NEARLY INSTANTLY?
YOU MEAN THE WONS YOU CALLED FORGERIES AND LIES?
> and demonstrated examples,
Oh! The Puppy Wizzzard is gettin the HANG of this universtiy
thinkin...
> so, please provide examples,
NO PROBLEMO EL ESTUPIDO!!!
> NOT testimonials.
RIGHT... SCORES OF IDENTICAL TESTIMONALS FROM
ALL KINDS OF FOLK FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD WITH
SERIOUS BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS NEARLY INSTANTLY
CURED, FOR FREE, AND THAT AIN'T GOOD ENOUFF
FOR A PHD?????
You tickle The Puppy Wizzzard... PINK.
> ANYONE can name-drop.
FOR SHORE!
But NOBODY can name drop like The Puppy Wizzzard
when he DROPS THE HAMMER on the entire industry,
startin with PURDUE BEHAVIOR CLINIC FOR MALPRACTICE.
HOWE'S MY SPELLIN?
Re: puppy advise please
Subject: The Core Takeaway I Got From Jerry's Manual
Is This: Make Yourself The Center Of Your Puppy's World -
His Personal Lord Jesus. Never Give Him A Reason To Fear
You Or Think You're Angry. Love The Heck Out Of Him, And
You'll End Up With...
HOWEDY mud,
"Mudbunny" <m...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea2dcca7.02123...@posting.google.com...
> A friend had a golden retriever with the same problem, towards me!!
> Whenever I would show up, she would come up to me, whine, flop on her
> back, and then do her best "old Faithful" imitation. Our solution was
> to do as was mentioned previously, and greet her outside. After a
> while (about 3 years!!!) she grew out of it.
Brilliant. The Puppy Wizard has never seen a case of
submissive urination last longer than a couple days...
> Good luck
Yeah. KEEP IT, marcel. Dog training AIN'T LUCK.
> Marcel C. Beaudoin
That's HOWE COME your idiocy takes 3 years to
'train' the dog and Your Puppy Wizard's students
do it in a day or two...
The Core Takeaway I Got From Jerry's Manual Is This:
Make Yourself The Center Of Your Puppy's World -
His Personal Lord Jesus. Never Give Him A Reason
To Fear You Or Think You're Angry. Love The Heck
Out Of Him, And You'll End Up With A Great Dog," Charlie
From: Eric
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in..
Jerry!
You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago
regarding submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you
know he's doing great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!
He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"!
Once I stopped thinking like a human and got inside his
head, I can teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes. Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.
I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed
'em, and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside
their heads and teach them to teach themselves how to
be good dogs!
Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...
Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather
than beating ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.
I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone who beat MY ass lol!
Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes
out there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.
A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....
Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!
Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> HOWEDY marcel the clown,
> "Marcel Beaudoin" <mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.urka-gurka.com>
> wrote in message news:V%QZ9.48724$j5.162977@news...
> > "Trentus" <The_Supe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:VeMZ9.35670$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> > > Why do I love this dog so much.
> That's what gets a lot of dogs HURT and DEAD around here...
> > > He ate through one keyboard cable,
> Tough break. That'll happen if you don't allow the puppy
> to cruize around the HOWES and teach him what's his
> or not... without giving alternate behaviors and substitutes...
> > > but didn't matter,
> It mighta, if he got DEAD over it. That's HOWE COME
> we sometimes use a little Sloan's Linament, if we haven't
> been able to address that sort of thing, USUALLY BECAUSE
> of PAST INAPPROPRIATE EFFORTS to break the dog of
> chewing wires...
> That makes it REAL HARD to CATCH THE DOG in the ACT
> of THINKIN about touching a wire, AND PRAISING HIM for
> THINKING ABOUT IT BEFORE HE TOUCHES it...
> If he CONTINUES to try to touch it, we make a brief variable
> distraction INSTANTLY followed by prolonged non physical
> PRAISE, and ALLOW the pup TO CONTINUE exploring to
> TEACH HIM the wires are not for him... WITHOUT TAKIN
> HIM AWAY FROM IT.
> SAME SAME SAME SAME FOR ANY OTHER BEHAVIOR.
> > > it was an old keyboard.
> Big deal. Don't matter WHAT it was, it's ALL THE SAME
> SAME to the puppy.
> > > Then he ate through a PlayStation2 Controller cable
> > > I'd left out when went to bed.
> Because you hadn't TRAINED him. Takes The Puppy
> Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
> Manual Students about two HOWERS to train their pups
> to not touch nuthin that's not for them throughout the HOWES.
> > > That's OK, I mostly play alone.
> Sometimes it's hard to find anybody good enough to play with...
> > > But today he ate through the other controllers cable
> Brilliant. You could have used the two pryor instances as
> training lessons AFTER THE FACT as instructed in your
> FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
> > > while the kids were playing with it (they had part of
> > > it lying over the arm of the chair he was lying beside)
> Blame the kids...for you not training EITHER to behave.
> > > The total of replacement parts is greater than the price
> > > we paid for the dog.
> The Puppy Wizzzard gets most of HIS dogs for FREE from
> EXXXPERT trainers who've become afraid of their dogs
> they've abused according to traditional training methods.
> > > Oh well, another 19 months and maybe he'll have
> > > outgrown his chewing.
> YEAH. THAT'S BECAUSE OF HOWE YOU'RE TRAINING HIM.
LIKE THIS:
From: Marcel Beaudoin
Date: Mon, Feb 3 2003 11:37 am
Email: "Marcel Beaudoin" <m...@hotmail.com>
Groups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
"Very Joyful" <veryjoy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:usgs3vghg3ubkervj...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:11:03 -0500 (EST),
> rmazz...@webtv.net (Roe M) wrote:
> > I have a 6 month old female chocolate lab.....very loving..
> > but.....when playing with her she occassionally will nip my
> > hand and lunge at my shirt sleeve.
> Go alpha on her immediately.
> Get higher than her. (Stand up, right over her.)
> Say NO! in a deep loud voice.
I wouldn't suggest this at all. You want to teach your pup
how to play. When she was with her mom, mom would turn away
and ignore the pups if they got too bitey. By doing it this
way, your pup associates biting with play stopping, and she
will learn to play the right way.
Also, when she bites you, use a high pitched voice and go OW!!!
This is similar to the yelp that mom (or the other pups) made
when they were playing... Marcel
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> Teething does not mean destructive chewing. Destructive
> chewing is a SYMPTOM OF ANXIETY, not teething.
> > > The stupid thing is
> YOU GOT ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED BUT YOU'RE
> TOO STUPID TO USE IT CAUSE YOU WANT TO PUNISH
> AND HURT.
> > he has A HUGE supply of Pigs ears,
> The Puppy Wizzzard would NEVER give HIS dogs crap like that.
> The Puppy Wizzzard only leaves WON acceptable chew item
> in each area of the HOWES. The Puppy Wizzzard NEVER
> offers the acceptable chew items unless it's for PLEASURE.
> > > twisted ropes, rubber toys,
> Fine...
> > marinated cowhides,
> GARBAGE.
> > > and every other conceivable chewable items
> > > from super soft to extra tough,
> Like your electronics stuff, hunh?
> > > he has no EXCUSE for chewing cables.
> SHORE he does. YOU NEVER TRAINED HIM.
> > > Aaaarrrghhh.
> Stupidity begins in the HOWES... or sumpthin like that.
> > > Trentus
> GOOD LUCK...
> > Just try to keep an eye on him.
> That's HOWE COME the dog will do that BEHIND YOUR BACK.
> > When he goes to chew on something you don't want,
> > distract him
> BRIEFLY, and INSTANTLY PRAISE for 5-15 seconds and
> allow the pup to CONTINUE as he chooses.
> > then give him a toy he can chew on.
> NO. THAT'S HOWE COME YOU CAN'T TRAIN THE PUP.
> HE NEEDS TO THINK OF AND ATTEMPT THE BEHAVIOR
> UNTIL IT'S FULLY EXTINGUISHED THRU REPEATED
> SUCCESSIVE SUCCESSFULLY DISTRACTED AND PRAISED
> BRIEF VARIABLE INTERRUPTIONS AND THE FREEDOM TO
> THINK IT THROUGH TILL EXTINCTION.
> Too bad you're a phd... marcel the clown... you add a new
> dimension to STUPID.
> > Once he starts chewing, praise him.
> NO. That's IDIOCY. The dog has been taken away from
> the problem BEFORE HE CAN LEARN not to DO IT!
> > Eventually he will learn that he gets rewards from
> > chewing on his toys.
> "Oh well, another 19 months and maybe he'll have
> outgrown his chewing."
> BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> That's HOWE COME the "EXXXPERTS" tell you to lock
> the dog in a box.
> > With Moogli, it took about a month and a half of this
> > before he learned not to chew on shoes.
> Takes The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
> Training Method Students bout WON DAY to do THAT.
> > Now there is only once or twice a week
> > that he wanders around the apartment
> > with a shoe in his mouth.
> BWWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
> GOOD LUCK, marcel the goddamnedest freakin most
> stupidest most undeservedly arrogant mealy mouthed
> doubletalking lying dog abusing Punk Thug Coward
> Psycholown in town...
> BWWAAHJAJAJAJAJAAA!!! \
> > Marcel
And THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard goes: "BWEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!}
LIKE THIS:
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
Subject changed: Doggy Do Right?
40 From: Marcel Beaudoin
Date: Thurs, Feb 13 2003 12:14 pm
Email: "Marcel Beaudoin" <m...@hotmail.com>
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
"Jayne" <J...@skyline-design.com> wrote in message
news:b2f5cd$1it$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> So what's the story here. Excuse my ignorance, I'm new here. Is this a
> endorsed and reliable form of training and does it work for puppy's?
In addition to what the above posters have said, he states that "A dog
is a dog". That is not true. Even in my (admittedly limited)
experience
with dogs, I know that you may have to take different approaches with
different dogs.
Some dogs catch onto training very quickly, some dogs take
longer. Some dogs catch everything, some dogs are good with
everything but cannot be trusted off a leash.
Personally, I have tried (with disastrous results) to engage
Mr Howe in a conversation about the merits of his training
program and why it is better/worse than what others propose.
It degenerates VERY quickly into name calling. I haven't
read any of his posts in a while, but I think I am Marcel
the clown. Actually, I am kinda disappointed in that. With
others he has gotten MUCH more imaginative.
Others in here have also tried the same thing, with the same results.
If you happen to disagree with him, you become, depending
on the day, a thug, a dog abuser, and various other people.
Now while I have lied a coulpe of times (I swear, I don't
know what happened to the chocolate cake!!)
I have never abused my dog.
As for the training techniques themselves in WETS, I am not
a trainer, so I cannot comment on that, only repeat what was
told to me when I asked this question several months ago.
Some of the techniques he has "borrowed" from established
training methods (without a reference or credit) and may
work.
The others, no one knows where they came from. People in
this group have offered to go to see him with a dog to get
it trained, or invited him down to their school to train a
dog. No response at all.
The people in this group love dogs. If his training system
worked, you can bet that someone in this group would have
ried it and found it worked.
Marcel
From: Marcel Beaudoin -
Date: Wed, Jan 15 2003 8:58 am
Email: "Marcel Beaudoin" <mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.urka-gurka.com>
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Hey. I would provide your cats with a place that your pup
can't get to. That way they have a place to hide when it
gets to stressful for them. Also, maybe it will take a
swat or two for your pup to learn when to stop.
AFter enough repetitions of Hiss, Swat, OW!!!, he will
learn to back off after the hiss,knowing that the swat
is coming.
No magic box will help you with this.
As for your pup screaming, is your pup crate-trained??
--
Marcel Beaudoin
Remove urka-gurka to reply
---------------
You mean LIKE THIS, marcel the imbecile idiot liar
dog abuser quasi pimp whoremonerin Sexual Sadist?:
Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue,
Animal Commissioner Brevard Co FL, writes:
I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped
my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a valuable tool in
helping with aggression and other behavior problems. I am in Feral
Cat Network (we spay and neuter approximately 100 feral cats a
month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog obedience club,
member of a local AKC agility club, president of Pet Rescue, board
member of the Alliance for Careand Welfare of Animals (on the board
are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat
club, assistant County manager, head of animal control, director of
two different shelters, etc.).
Thanks, Elaine,
Elaine, Desiree, and Margaret (their posts below) have
posted publicly, and have been verified as true, independent,
entities belonging to the organizations quoted in their texts below.
The "Reward For Doggy Do Right Owners" offered by DW
has been PAID to Margaret. Your pal marquis de "read
koehler for content" shaw reneged on paying his reward, as
expected. But in the process he DID verify Elaine McClung
as a real person.
Desiree (New Leash), is a member of the Space Cats
Rescue in Melbourn, FL. She wrote me after using Doggy
Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) for just TWO DAYS. She'd
borrowed it from Elaine, but Elaine called her back and
asked her to return it A.S.A.P., because she needed it to
keep her problem cat from bullying the others. Her post
wasn't sent as an endorsement, it was just her private email to me:
"I had the unit from Sunday afternoon until
Tuesday Morning. I was certainly pleased with
the night effect. I wasn't so sure about the
amount of the day time effect. Until I took it
back. Within half an hour, the monsters had
resurfaced. I wondered if I could break into
Elaine's house and if she would notice :)"
Hi Jerry, (update 10/31/00)
Teddy, my friend, with the very alpha male Siamese cat reports all
is well. She has been running DDR for well over a week now and JR
has not beaten up on any of the other cats. Gillie the smallest
female cat was living in the bathroom and JR was attacking her
every day.
Teddy forgot to close the bathroom door the second day she had the
DDR and came home to good news "no hair all over the room." Now
she is leaving the bathroom door open all the time and JR has not
attacked Gillie.
Gillie used to be able to sleep with Teddy on the bed but JR got
soooo....bad he would almost maul her if she came into the bedroom.
Teddy told me that yesterday Gillie came into the bedroom and JR
just looked at her and ignored her.
Teddy is so grateful as she was considering putting JR outside or
having him euthanized. Will update you in another week or so.
Thanks, Elaine
------------
Dear Jerry-
I just wanted to let you know how wonderful your Doggy Do
Right product is. I was skeptical at first, but have been
tremendously pleased.
As you know, we had a neighbor's dog that was extremely
bothersome, at times barking loudly for 3 hours straight.
Within a few days, the barking decreased, and now it is just
the occasional bark. this dog lives approximately 500 feet
away, and even at that distance, the machine has done wonders.
You were always available and patient to answer my
questions, and now I can be in my own home without going
nuts from the barking. As an added pleasure, all the other
minor barking nuisances in the neighborhood have stopped
as well.
Quiet is wonderful! Thank you.
Pam Graves
UPDATE (3/4/01): Pam called and mentioned HOWE thrilled she was
when the yapper that's been driving her to her wits' end stopped
his barking jag in EIGHTEEN SECONDS when she turned the machine
on. No wonder our friends here don't want to believe me... I'd
been saying Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) can stop a barking
dog in twenty seconds, heh, heh, heh.
---------------
Apr 25, 05:59 PM
Margaret Hoffman
Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe
I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it
incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for
about one year. It truly does work - at least on my Dobe,
Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed
attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment
and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and
strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older
couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry
Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him
personally work with Chelsea.
His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog
that you will bully, and I wouldn't dream of hurting her. After
Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture,
ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash.
She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long
story and I won't bore you with all the details, but suffice it
to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us.
Marge Hoffman
P.S. You can send me the reward money, but
I won't sell you my DDR!
-------------
Hi Jerry,
Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3 weeks)
now and would appear that it is working. We are still on the
lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now much calmer
with the little fur balls getting near her. Not perfect but
much improved! I do think that you need a more universal name
as it appears to have drastically cut the spraying problem down
that we have with our crowded cat situation. I am going to send
an e-mail to Domesti-Cats club, Feral Cat Network and Space
Cats Club as a lot of the members have some of the same
problems with their cats. It has also lessened the number of
nightly cat fights.
Thanks, Elaine
---------------
Hi,
Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least number
of times during the day. We are going to try putting it on the
next setting and see if that will completely solve our
problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the
spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work. Will let
you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to people
with cat spray problems though you might want to recommend that
they do what we did.
We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme product
that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a long time
and it usually only slows them down for a week or two, so I
know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the success we are
seeing right now. We were resigned to constant cleaning and
even then it was difficult to keep up with. I don't know if you
have forgotten but we have 19 cats.
Elaine.
------------------------------
Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue, Animal
Commissioner Brevard Co FL, writes:
Hi Jerry,
I received email from Mark Shaw on 10/6 which I just read today.
Sorry I didn't have time to get to it sooner. We have had a lot
going on in our area concerning animals. We formed a new Task
Force to address spay/neuter, pet overpopulation and animal
abuse. I needed to do a lot of research before the first meeting
and time was just not available for anything else.
Anyway the letter went on to say that we are in collusion, I tried
to defraud him, and have sent none of the materials that he has
asked for although he has yet to furnish the P. O. Box number that
he wanted them sent to in the first place. He goes on to state that
I am no longer eligible for the "fictions reward." All of this is in
answer to postings that prove I was "sharing" his email with you
which in his opinion was a breach of good manners. His email only
had terms and conditions of the reward which I would consider
"public information."
Be that as it may, I would like to state that you had my permission
to post any email I have sent you regarding DDR including this email.
I'm very sorry that you have to put up with this type of situation
from someone that obviously never intended to make good on his
reward offer in the first place.
I had a call from a friend of mine with a very aggressive cat. I
have loaned her my DDR for a few weeks to see if it will calm JR
down. I will let you know the results. She goes to the same holistic
vet that I go to and he is also interested.
In case Mark does post to the list again I would like to say that I
do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped
my dogs and cats. I have entirely too much to do, to worry about his
opinions or reward.
The only reason I was willing to apply for the reward was on your
behalf as I do think your product is a valuable tool in helping with
aggression and other behavior problems.
I am in Feral Cat Network (we spay and neuter approximately 100
feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog
obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club, president of
Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for Care and Welfare of
Animals (on the board are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep.
from AKC dog club, CFA cat club, assistant County manager, head of
animal control, director of two different shelters, etc.) and Space
Coast Feline Network http://www.spacecoastfelinenet work.com
I listed these not to be on an ego trip but to let Mark know that I
am involved with animals and have very little time to play games
with him also I would not recommend your product if I did not
believe in it.
Please feel free to post this email as it has no
copyright on it as did Mark Shaw's last email to me.
Take care Jerry and don't let the Mark's of the
world get you down.
Elaine
Thank you, Elaine. I have been trying to educate the
mark's of this world, with some occasional successes.
I guess that's variable reinforcement?
Yours, Jerry.
--------------------
And THAT'S HOWE COME you lyin dog abusing punk
thug coward mental cases CAN'T POST to The Freakin
Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Forums nodoGdameneDMOORE.
REMEMBER NHOWE,marcel the imbecile lyin animal an
child abusin freakin pathetic multi dimensional
mentally, socially, morally, ethically challenged
insufficent, stiffled, stunted, abused, abuser?
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
turb...@webtv.net
between your lips and Muttley will look at you.
Paul E. Schoen
<Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@HotMail.Com>
wrote in message
news:1183289365....@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> HOWEDY Paul,
>
> On Jun 30, 4:44 pm, "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote:
>> "Marcel Beaudoin" <marcel.beaud...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:Xns995FA1ED82B57...@130.133.1.4...
>>
>> > "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
>> >news:4686b436$0$19115$ecde...@news.coretel.netin
>> > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>>
>> >> I tried a few more brief "hot and cold" exercises
>> >> today, in several locations,
>
> We was suppHOWESED to do four repetitions in
> each location pryor to repeating it in four different
> locations.
OK, that was not mentioned in your manual, except for the FPLX, which I
expect to try next. For the H&C, how do I repeat the exercise of getting my
dog settled down four times in the same place without getting him riled up
between sessions?
>
> It's important than you not present this EXXXORCISE
> as "just takin a walk and stopping to do the H&C",
> otherWIZE it'll appear to be the same as dr. ian dunbar's
> idiotic "make like a tree" technique for teachin heelin or
> loose leash walking.
I tell Muttley when we are going to walk, and when we will stop to do the
H&C. I need to walk him from one location to the other. He gets very fussy
when I try to carry him (and he's too heavy). I don't want to hog-tie him
and transport him in a wheelbarrow.
>
>> >> but the result is always that he
>> >> stops pulling, sits, lays down,
>
> EXXXCELLENTE!
>
>> or rolls around, without looking at me.
>
> He's still throwin you the dew claw, Paulie <{):* ~ ( >
>
>> >> This continues whether or not I praise
>> >> him or "engage him in conversation".
>
> Looks like he's bein SPITEFUL. Fine. Perhaps
> it's time to bring back the PRONG, eh, Paulie?
>
>> >> Only when I tell him we will continue on the walk,
>
> O.K. You might wanna just wait till he comes arHOWEND
> askin you to do sumpthin with him, and THEN do it. That'll
> give him the sense that he's trainin you and he'll be less
> spiteful in the future <{}: ~ ) >
I can almost guarantee that I will have to wait until spiders tie me to the
trees with webs, or my feet grow roots, or maybe if Muttley gets hungry or
thirsty enough. Or are you being sarcastic?
>
>> >> or otherwise provide him with direction, does he
>> >> briefly pay attention, and then go where he wants,
>> >> except for changes I choose to make.
>
> Does he seem to be more compliant abHOWET
> walking withHOWET pulling and keepin WON eye
> an WON ear on you, Paulie?
Maybe just a little bit. Of course, I've done this before, by stopping and
waiting for him to settle down before continuing.
>
> Perhaps this will DEAMONstrate to you HOWE forcing
> your dog to walk on leash teaches them to IGNORE you
> and pull to ESCAPE being forced?
>
> There's LOTS of EXXXCELLENT lessons to be learned
> from payin attention to what your dog is tryin to train you
> to do, Paulie <{}'; ~ ) >
>
> GOOD BOY!
Again, sarcasm or advice?
[big snip]
As others have suggested, he'll sure look at me and give me a lot of
attention if I have some treats with me. I had some in a bag on my belt
before visiting Lucky yesterday, and I was wondering why Muttley stayed
real close to me while I gave him a quick walk. Duh!@@
But that would be a bribe, and of course he's looking at the treats, not at
me.
When I came back in, I had the bag of treats on the bed where Muttley was
stretched out. He put his paw on the bag and looked at me. I had him lie
down nicely and gave him a treat. Then I put the bag by my computer, and
caught up on some things. Muttley stuck his head over my shoulder and
breathed in my ear, looking keenly at the bag of goodies. I asked him to
move back and lie down again, which he did, and I rewarded him with a
treat. Ooh, bad, a bribe.
Then I took a shower, and remembered that I had left the bag of treats on
the desk by the computer. Oh, well. So I dried off and came back into the
bedroom...
OMG!
Where is Muttley?!
He had gone downstairs to relax on his other dog bed, and looked up at me
when I saw him, and I said "good boy". The bag of treats were undisturbed,
right where they had been left, and obviously he knew where they were.
He has sometimes helped himself to treats when not specifically given to
him. I had a bag of milk bones I had left on the floor for a while, near
the trash can. He will sometimes get things out of the trash, but he is
good about counter surfing, so I allow him this guilty pleasure. So the
treats were probably close enough to being allowed, and when I got home
from work, I found a little bite hole in the bag, and he had helped himself
to "a few" treats.
Another time I had left some of these on the night table by the bed. He
helped himself to all but one.
"Good boy"
Muttley and Paul
Handsome Jack Morrison
<el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote:
>On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 16:05:15 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net>
>wrote:
>
>>As others have suggested, he'll sure look at me and give me a lot of
>>attention if I have some treats with me. I had some in a bag on my belt
>>before visiting Lucky yesterday, and I was wondering why Muttley stayed
>>real close to me while I gave him a quick walk. Duh!@@
>>
>>But that would be a bribe, and of course he's looking at the treats, not at
>>me.
>
>so reward him with the treat when he looks at you instead of at the
>treat.
><http://www.flyingdogpress.com/rewards.html>
Isn't this the point where Jerry runs up to them both, slaps Elegy in
the face and screams "Stay away from my man! He's mine!"
Yeah, he's yours, Jer.
He's all yours.
Heh.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
Alarmist global warming claims melt under scientific scrutiny!
http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/450392,CST-EDT-REF30b.article
Paul E. Schoen
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri99609E33021F2au...@rocky-dog.com...
> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>> As others have suggested, he'll sure look at me and give me
>> a lot of attention if I have some treats with me. I had
>> some in a bag on my belt before visiting Lucky yesterday,
>> and I was wondering why Muttley stayed real close to me
>> while I gave him a quick walk. Duh!@@
>>
>> But that would be a bribe, and of course he's looking at
>> the treats, not at me.
>
> as such. There's a big difference between a bribe and a reward,
> mostly to do with your timing.
>
If you notice, I am being a bit facetious and sarcastic. For this
experiment, I need to follow Jerry's advice, to the letter, or he can say I
did this or that wrong. But I think you are right, it makes sense, and it
seems to be clearly evidenced in Muttley's behavior. We'll see what Jerry
has to say this time. I can't be polluting his methods.
Paul and Muttley @@
Janet Boss
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote:
> . For this
> experiment, I need to follow Jerry's advice, to the letter, or he can say I
> did this or that wrong. But I think you are right, it makes sense, and it
> seems to be clearly evidenced in Muttley's behavior. We'll see what Jerry
> has to say this time. I can't be polluting his methods.
You're an ass with your own agenda. Your dog is not a lab animal. Not
a science experiment. Nor is he your child. He's your DOG and needs to
be treated well and appropriately. You are doing him no favors, and "un
-Lucky" even fewer. Go see "Live Free or Die Hard" if you can afford to
go. Kevin Smith is younger, but........
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Handsome Jack Morrison
<ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>In article <468820d3$0$19128$ecde...@news.coretel.net>,
> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote:
[...]
>You're an ass with your own agenda. Your dog is not a lab animal. Not
>a science experiment. Nor is he your child. He's your DOG and needs to
>be treated well and appropriately.
I sure hope that you're passing his name around to local rescue
organizations. This narcissistic buffoon might decide to "rescue" even
more dogs, just to keep his name up in lights.
<spit>
Janet Boss
Handsome Jack Morrison <handsomeja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I sure hope that you're passing his name around to local rescue
> organizations. This narcissistic buffoon might decide to "rescue" even
> more dogs, just to keep his name up in lights.
No worries there........
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
TheSincerelyIncrediblyFreakinInsanelySimplyAmazingGrandPuppyChildPussyBirdyGoatFerettAndHorseyWizard
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:46880923$0$19103$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
>
<Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@HotMail.Com>
> wrote in message
> news:1183289365....@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> HOWEDY Paul,
>>
>> On Jun 30, 4:44 pm, "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote:
>>> "Marcel Beaudoin" <marcel.beaud...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns995FA1ED82B57...@130.133.1.4...
>>>
>>> > "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
>>> >news:
4686b436$$19115e...@news.coretel.netin
>>> > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
marcel's EXXXPERT on dog an child behavior:
Subject: New addition to the Beaudoin family
Moogli on the other hand, is skating on very thin
ice with Gen and I at the moment. For no apparant
reason yesterday that I know of (I was at work, it
happened when Gen was with Emilie just before
taking her to daycare) when Emilie was walking
by Moogli, something she had done several times
before that morning alone, he bit her.In the face.
Gen informed him in no uncertain terms that this
Was Not Allowed, and he spent the rest of the day
hiding in his cage. I love Moogli to death, but the
choice between him or Emilie is not a difficult one
to make.
Marcel
-----------------
You have good ideas!!
Marcel C. Beaudoin
---------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
He also got EXXXPERTEASE on
RELATIONSHIPS and DATING:
6 From: Chemguy
Date: Sat, Jun 5 1999 12:00 am
Email: Chemguy <m...@hotmail.com>
Groups: alt.sex.prostitution
> That out of the way I have a very stupid question to
> ask. Never been to canada but am going there soon.
> Is prostitution legal there?
As mentioned previously, incall in Canada
is illegal, outcall is legal.
That being said, most cities have a wide variety
of incall providers. They are generally not harassed
by the cops unless there are complaints by neighbours.
Depending on where you are going, the current law
enforcement attitude may vary. Your best bet would
be to check out Lyla's List at http://www.lyla.com/ .
Most, if not all, of your questions can be answered there.
--
Chemguy
-------------
Thanx
-----------------
You should listen to him if you got any plans
to visit Toronto, but maybe NOT SO MUCH
if you got any plans to TRAIN YOUR DOG
or ladies or children <{}: ~ ) >
>>> >> I tried a few more brief "hot and cold"
>>> >> exercises today, in several locations,
>>
>> We was suppHOWESED to do four repetitions in
>> each location pryor to repeating it in four different
>> locations.
>
> OK, that was not mentioned in your manual,
> except for the FPLX, which I expect to try next.
Having just re read it, you're right, it was a little unclear.
Actually, I'd intended for the H&C and FPLX to be done
together as WON EXXXORCISE, so each time the H&C
is done the FPLX and installation of the come command
are also done.
But you wanted to take it S-L-O-W and I was fine with that.
NO PROBLEMO.
We're still on the same page and me an Muttley
are eagerly lookin forward to the FUN parts!
> For the H&C, how do I repeat the exercise of getting my
> dog settled down four times in the same place without
> getting him riled up between sessions?
Each performance entails a new outing. We don't want
it to appear as though we're stopping because he's pullin.
When you're done with the EXXXORCISE for each
session the dog is "FREE" to wander at the length of his
lead. Just keep working the leash handling techniques
to prevent yourself from triggerin the opposition reflex
and compellin him to pull.
>> It's important than you not present this EXXXORCISE
>> as "just takin a walk and stopping to do the H&C",
>> otherWIZE it'll appear to be the same as dr. ian dunbar's
>> idiotic "make like a tree" technique for teachin heelin or
>> loose leash walking.
>
> I tell Muttley when we are going to walk, and
> when we will stop to do the H&C.
That's cool.
> I need to walk him from one location to the other.
Keep each session independent or separate from the
other. Start off walking to and from each specific
location "at liberty" and make sure you've got enough
area there to go into the FPLX and install the come
command as a conditional reflex when you're ready to
go into those.
That way he'll be CONditioned to the
training areas as "home turf" <{}'; ~ ) >
> He gets very fussy when I try to carry him
That suggests he don't fully TRUST you.
> (and he's too heavy).
He won't feel so heavy soon as you get
him up an over your shoulders <{}: ~ ) >
> I don't want to hog-tie him and
> transport him in a wheelbarrow.
If he was a big as my Danes an Mastiffs
you could ride him. OtherWIZE you could
JUST ASK HIM to get up in there and he'll
NATURALLY WANT to DO ANY THING
you ask on accHOWENTA THAT'S the
NATURE of the BEAST <{}'; ~ ) >
>>> >> but the result is always that he
>>> >> stops pulling, sits, lays down,
>>
>> EXXXCELLENTE!
>>
>>> or rolls around, without looking at me.
>>
>> He's still throwin you the dew claw, Paulie <{):* ~ ( >
>>
>>> >> This continues whether or not I praise
>>> >> him or "engage him in conversation".
>>
>> Looks like he's bein SPITEFUL. Fine. Perhaps
>> it's time to bring back the PRONG, eh, Paulie?
>>
>>> >> Only when I tell him we will continue on the walk,
>>
>> O.K. You might wanna just wait till he comes
>> arHOWEND askin you to do sumpthin with
>> him, and THEN do it. That'll give him the sense
>> that he's trainin you and he'll be less spiteful in
>> the future <{}: ~ ) >
>
> I can almost guarantee that I will have to wait
> until spiders tie me to the trees with webs, or
> my feet grow roots, or maybe if Muttley gets
> hungry or thirsty enough.
NO PROBLEMO unless you got arachnaphobia.
OtherWIZE you could just wait till heel freezes over:
Hot & Cold:
"If this exercise requires more time, that's fine too.
Spend twenty or thirty minutes in one spot, just
calming the dog and gaining his trust and commanding
his attention through the intermittent praise."
> Or are you being sarcastic?
No no, for real. We're workin NHOWE. And
you're DOIN FINE! Keep up the good work
and maybe we'll teach a few of these pathetic
malignant ignorameHOWESES HOWE to
train their own dogs BEYOND "AMAZINGLY
well trained dog to the level that it boggles your
mind" <{}; ~ ) >
Subject: Re: Muttley Training, Lesson #1
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns995C76A...@216.196.97.142...
> in thread news:4681eaa9$0$3863$ecde...@news.coretel.net: "Paul E. Schoen"
> <pst...@smart.net> whittled the following words:
in thread news:4681eaa9$0$3863$ecde...@news.coretel.net: "Paul E. Schoen"
<pst...@smart.net> whittled the following words:
> This is my forum for reporting my experiences and
> fine tuning Muttley's training to be as effective as
> possible.
Do tell.
YOUR Forum? Why not AOHEll where they
appreciate you? I could show you some REALLY
trained dogs (as well as many others here) and yet,
it never strikes you that perhaps there are other
methods to create and AMAZINGLY well trained
dog to the level that it boggles your mind, and you
would prefer to think training to that level is
IMPOSSIBLE, and fabricated, rather than accept
that perhaps your methods are inefficient.
--------------------
LIKE THAT <{}: ~ ) >
>>> >> or otherwise provide him with direction, does he
>>> >> briefly pay attention, and then go where he wants,
>>> >> except for changes I choose to make.
>>
>> Does he seem to be more compliant abHOWET
>> walking withHOWET pulling and keepin WON
>> eye an WON ear on you, Paulie?
>
> Maybe just a little bit. Of course, I've done this before,
> by stopping and waiting for him to settle down before
> continuing.
Yeah, we don't wanna do THAT. THAT teaches the
dog HE is IN CON-TROLL. When you've progressed
to the heeling part you'll learn HOWE to get through
any EXXXCITEMENT or pullin <{}; ~ ) >
Amanda wrote:
No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.
Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..
she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.
Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.
I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..
we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.
She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.
One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.
two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.
And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..
actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.
She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.
She also does her commands on cue..
and doesn't look for a treat.
---------------
>> Perhaps this will DEAMONstrate to you HOWE forcing
>> your dog to walk on leash teaches them to IGNORE you
>> and pull to ESCAPE being forced?
>>
>> There's LOTS of EXXXCELLENT lessons to be
>> learned from payin attention to what your dog is
>> tryin to train you to do, Paulie <{}'; ~ ) >
>>
>> GOOD BOY!
>
> Again, sarcasm or advice?
No no, for REAL, Paul. I wouldn't give a ration
to my STUDENTS, otherWIZE they'd throw me
the dew claw an NO WON would talk to me!
Looks like YOU are the ONLY friend I got here,
seein as my 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Training Method Manual Student's DON'T
POST HERE on accHOWENTA THEY AIN'T
GOT BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS.
Unlike HOWE the dog wheeesper and his fans sez,
dog trainin AIN'T an ongoing process of constant
jerking chokin avoidance and punishment. When a
dog is TRAINED, he's TRAINED and THAT'S
THAT.
The "reinforcement never ends" idiocy ONLY happens
when you use FORCE to "train" a dog, Paulie <{}: ~ ) >
> [big snip]
Oh yeah, speakin of SNIPPIN, please DO NOT
snip cross posts when replying, otherWIZE I may
OVERLOOK your post and that could cause a
PROBLEM like when Misty's DEAD DOG Peaches
GOT DEAD on her on accHOWENTA I didn't reply
when I didn't see her post in time to send her my manual.
> As others have suggested, he'll sure look at me
> and give me a lot of attention if I have some treats
> with me.
Nooo, that's not attention, that's GREED.
He'd be playin you for a CHUMP! Food
bribes, lures and "rewards" got NO place
in The Method <{}: ~ ) >
> I had some in a bag on my belt before visiting
> Lucky yesterday, and I was wondering why
> Muttley stayed real close to me while I gave
> him a quick walk. Duh!@@
Ahhh, if he'd do that JUST on accHOWENTA
you got food handy, imagine HOWE he'll do
when he thinks YOU are THE most important
treat in the WHOWEL WILD WORLD??
> But that would be a bribe, and of course
> he's looking at the treats, not at me.
Of curse:
"We have a system that will guide your dog's correct
performance, or provide you with a strategic withdrawal.
You are the one in charge; so therefore, you may
change your mind, as you so desire. We'll show
you how to insure that you come out looking smarter
than your dog."
> When I came back in, I had the bag of treats
> on the bed where Muttley was stretched out.
> He put his paw on the bag and looked at me.
He's ASKIN. You shoulda gave him WON.
> I had him lie down nicely and gave him a treat.
No, not a TREAT, that was a REWARD.
TREATS are UNCONDITIONAL and UNDESERVED,
just "on accHOWENTA", not EARNED, otherWIZE you
INCREASE GREED and anXXXIHOWESNESS and risk
makin the dog AGGRESSIVE:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY model involves the USE OF
PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon that
an expected reward not received is experienced as a
punishment and can produce extensive and persistent
aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."
> Then I put the bag by my computer, and caught
> up on some things. Muttley stuck his head over
> my shoulder and breathed in my ear, looking
> keenly at the bag of goodies.
Fine. You're welcome to give him anything he wants.
> I asked him to move back and lie down again,
Ooops!
> which he did, and I rewarded him with a treat.
Yeah, REAL BAD, Paulie.
BAD BOY! SHAME!
GO TO YOUR BOX!
> Ooh, bad, a bribe.
Yeah, REAL BAD, Paul.
Givin treats is for PLEASURE.
Offerin or withHOWELDING bribes
teaches GREED and AVRICE:
WordNet - avarice
noun
1. reprehensible acquisitiveness; insatiable desire
for wealth (personified as one of the deadly sins)
2. extreme greed for material wealth
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
av·a·rice /'æv?r?s/
-noun insatiable greed for riches; inordinate, miserly desire to gain
and hoard wealth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1250-1300; ME < OF < L avaritia, equiv. to avar(us) greedy
+ -itia -ice]
-Synonyms cupidity.
> Then I took a shower,
"Cleanliness is next to G-dliness" but HERE
it's next to IMPOSSIBLE <{}: ~ ( >
> and remembered that I had left the bag
> of treats on the desk by the computer.
NO PROBLEMO, Paulie. Dogs DO NOT STEAL
STUFF if we don't TRY to keep it from them. WE
put "value" on STUFF by tellin the dog "DON'T
TOUCH", and so, they STEAL IT soon as we turn
HOWER back on them, just like HOWE a child
learns to steal.
And then of curse, PUNISHING them (*often called
TEACHIN them CONSEQUENCES) teaches them
to LIE.
Ask any of the dog lovers here who got children.
They CANNOT trust their kids not to steal cheat
an lie nodoGdameneD better than they can train
their dogs not to steal an RUN HOWET on them
or bite their snot nose kids in the face when mommy
an daddy AIN'T IN CON-TROLL.
Freakin marcel's dog Mooglie AIN'T NEVER
been TRUSTWORTHY and UN AFRAID of
his rug rat since the day IT arrived. He'll end
up MURDERIN Mooglie FOR SHORE...
wanna know HOWE COME I'm SO SHORE,
Paulie?
HERE'S HOWE COME. Mooglie is comin up
on FIVE YEARS old, according to Scott & Fuller
and myself, the fifth year is a particular developmental
stage where dogs CHALLENGE the status quo, kinda
like a last ditch effort towards INDEPENDENCE.
HE'S HISTORY.
And marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog an child
abuser ignorameHOWES Phd psychoclHOWEN
will BLAME THE DOG and DO IT AGAIN if
he ever gets another dog to JERK CHOKE BRIBE
CRATE INTIMIDATE MUTILATE an MURDER.
> Oh, well. So I dried off and came
> back into the bedroom...
Did you make a special trip to "save" the treats?
> OMG!
> Where is Muttley?!
> He had gone downstairs to relax on his other
> dog bed, and looked up at me when I saw him,
> and I said "good boy". The bag of treats were
> undisturbed, right where they had been left, and
> obviously he knew where they were.
Of curse. He probably went DHOWEN stairs so's
not to be TEMPTED by the inviting treats <{}: ~ ) >
I usually have five pounds of meat thawing on the
counter an they've NEVER been stolen by my dogs.
Most of the time my mostly uneaten dinner is settin
on my desk and they frequently check up on it waitin
for scraps when I'm done.
They're WELCOME to SMELL it all they like.
> He has sometimes helped himself to treats
> when not specifically given to him.
THAT'S a BIG "no, no", Paulie. Set it up so's
he'll WANT to take sumpthin special and use
the variably alternating distraction and praise
technique to EXXXTINGUISH his desire for
takin ANY THING that's not specifically given
to him.
REMEMBER, as diddler SEZ:
diddler wrote:
"You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.
I think that should be expected of any breed,
and those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat".
"Cappy the beagle killed one of my ducklings today.
Tuck grabbed a leg, and swallowed a leg and thigh
before I could get him.
a month ago, he almost died from swallowing a
chicken wing. Now I'm sweating all over again.
I think he's never going to be allowed out ever
again without a muzzle! (he seems alright thus far.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
diddler wrote:
"You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.
I think that should be expected of any breed,
and those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat".
Re: Tuck's SAR experience
"diddy" <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns982D2E8...@216.196.97.142...
I just came in from putting chickens to bed, and Tuck
had my computer keyboard on the floor, and there are
now two keys missing.
Ornery git
-------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
diddler wrote:
"You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.
I think that should be expected of any breed,
and those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat".
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
News:Xns993C52B...@216.196.97.142...
My dogs aren't into beer that much.
But they sure love Horse poop!
--------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
diddler wrote:
"You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.
I think that should be expected of any breed,
and those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat".
"diddy" <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns98696E8...@216.196.97.142...
I've scorned your counter surfing dog all these years. I just
discovered this morning,I had one also. I was slicing Beef
tongue (remember the tongue table re: tribute to Cate's
mom?) and I left it on the counter,while I went to read email.
I suddenly saw movement in the kitchen and there was
Tuck scarfing down 7 pounds of sliced tongue. Oh my
goodness gracious, where did he put all of that?
ANYWAY... I owe you an apology.
humiliated in Ohio
diddy
---------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
diddler wrote:
"You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.
I think that should be expected of any breed,
and those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat".
"diddy" <d...@diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97F28C17046...@216.196.97.142...
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:06:26 -0500, diddy <d...@diddy.net> wrote:
my new puppy, Tuck, grabbed a raw chicken wing and
wolfed it down on sunday. He's been in the hospital daily,
admitted sometimes, and home montored others.He's been
supported supported daily by fluids, hoping he would pass
it, but he's destabilizing fast, and has just gone into surgery
to have it removed from his stomach, and his intestines have
intuscepted from being empty for so long, and they need
surgery also.
----------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
diddler wrote:
"You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.
I think that should be expected of any breed,
and those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat".
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: diddy <d...@whoops.I.said.WHAT?>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:51:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Disaster plans for dog owners
We left Reka outside, Mr beeegs crated, Taya in the
house.. because Reka plays when Taya doesn't want
to, and Danny came with me. I forgot Taya counter
surf'd. I had 3 sticks of summer sausage sitting on the
table that I was going to give away.
When I came home, all three sticks were gone, with
only the paper skins left that I'd wrapped them with.
Taya had eaten over 5 POUNDS of summer sausage!
I just had to laugh, because otherwise, I'd have cried.
diddy
---------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
diddler wrote:
"You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.
I think that should be expected of any breed,
and those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat".
From: diddy
(d...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: What would you do in this situation?
Date: 2002-05-31 14:49:22 PST
Actually, I borrowed the vets office kitten once for a
couple days for school education on pet care and safe
handling as well as responsible pet ownership.
I kept the kitten over night in a crate within a crate
and yet my dog (yes, Angelic Danny, as well as Taya
and Toby tore that kittne to threads from between the
crate bars. (apparently he stuck his paws through the
crate to bat at the dogs. I was out doing yard work
and rushed in to find the little kittens pieces and
parts being torn through by ALL the dogs.
I called my girl friend to come get my dogs. I screamed
displeasure, and stalked out with the kitten. Danny, et
al spent 3 days in a kennel until I finally felt like I
could interact with them without doing bodily harm. All
three dogs were never touched, but knew they had done
something so unspeakable that I wouldn't associate with
them and they got banished.
To this day, Taya (mom and Dad's dog) and Danny
will not look at a cat. When confronted with one,
Danny wees himself and cowers hiding behind me
for help.
I'm not saying this would work this way with all dogs,
But mom and dad now have a house cat, and she has
never been harmed by any of the dogs. Danny is there
all the time, unsupervised, and has no interest in harming the cat.
----------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> I had a bag of milk bones I had left on the floor
> for a while, near the trash can. He will sometimes
> get things out of the trash,
NO PROBLEMO!
Just ask diddler HOWE she trained her
AMAZINGLY UNBELIEVABLY well
trained dogs to the level that it boggles
your mind, and you would prefer to think
training to that level is IMPOSSIBLE,
and fabricated, HOWE to stay HOWETA
the garbage:
"My Husband Shot A Dog That Had Been Tearing
Up Trash Up And Down Our Road For Years Making
An Unbelievable Mess. When We Finally Killed The
Culprit, The Whole Road Cheered," diddler.
From: diddy (d...@diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Dog Shot, Neighbor Charged, Anchorage AK
Date: 2002-11-08 07:00:27 PST
I guess if I felt Danny was threatened, it's the way
I would react. There would be none left standing
to deal with the threat just in case.
If someone hurt him, I would not let borders or
continents stop me from pursuing justice.
Then again, I always feed Danny INSIDE. If
someone is feeding his dog outside, his own
dog might not mean THAT much to him.
If he was feeding his dog outside though, many
dogs are food aggressive, and that could most
certainly spark a dog aggression thing.
(and if the dog was penned quietly outside, what
was it doing in his yard?)
I shot a neighbors dog one night for chasing my
horses and called him to help me find it. I would
do the same for threatening my dog.
My husband shot a dog that had been tearing up
trash up and down our road for years making an
unbelievable mess.
When we finally killed the culprit, the whole road
cheered. Animal control had never been able in
years to catch this critter. (we think it was feral it
was certainly unkempt enough to have been....
and it had been shot at by MANY of the neighbors,
but it never frightened it off enough to keep it from
NOT tearing up the road the next trash day)
----------------
"diddy" <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9839861...@216.196.97.142...
> in thread news:m1s5g2lsio01rsk9i...@4ax.com: Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> whittled the following words:
> Curious how many choose to crate a dog forever,
> whenever they leave the house and/or overnight,
> or how many choose to wean from household
> crate usage (usage being shutting the dog in the
> crate, not the dog choosing to hang out there) at
> some specific ages or maturity levels.
> Not for how long during a workday, but how
> long for a dog's lifespan?
I plan on crating Tuck whenever NOT supervised
(which isn't often.. he usually is with me) Until the
day that he quits tearing apart everything in sight
when I leave the room.
A dog proof room doesn't work.
He's figured out door knobs. He's figured out cupboards,
and he loves to tug open dresser drawers. He's not
interested in anything left out in the open.
He's into treasure hunting, figuring anything worth
secreting away is worth his effort discovering. He's
discovered the sock stash is in drawers.
Trash cans? --not interested.
Counter tops? --not interested
Counter tops -with food? --not interested
Dog food sitting on the floorin open bags? --not interested
razor blades from bathroom drawers? ... Very cool stuff!
Mom really gets bent too!
nope.. His crate is going to be occupied for
some time to come.
As for the beagle.. She's never been trustworthy.
She's getting senile and never will be trustworthy,
so a crate is in her future until she crosses the bridge.
Reka, no crate at no time, She lost her crate when she was
5 months old. Both Tuck, and reka hangout in crates by choice.
Reka dens in the bathtub usually. (kind of a crate) But she
likes the beagles vantage point, because the beagles crate
is on top of Tuck's. Right next to the window so she can see
out. Tuck prefers the compartment with a view as well.
I always have to vacate him (even though the crate on top is
too small for both elkhounds, it's their preferred lookout)
when I wantto stick in the beagle.
Reka sleeps under the bed at night or in the bathtub at night
if it's really hot. She sleeps in the bathtub by day when not
watching from the penthouse suite.
Tuck is not crated at night, and has chosen to sleep in
the closet. The beagle holds down the couch, night and day.
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> but he is good about counter surfing,
O.K., here's a FAIR deal, Paulie: you teach diddler
HOWE to train her PERFECT *(tm) dogs to lay off
stealin from her counters and she'll teach you
MARKSMANSHIP!
> so I allow him this guilty pleasure.
OtherWIZE you can EXXXTINGUISH garbage
can raiding NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by
followin the "after the fact" technique of droppin
a can at the site he's touched when you discover
he's done sumpthin BAD and SAY NUTHIN...
till AFTER you've cleaned up or repaired the
damage *(after he's gone HOWETA the room
for a few minutes) AND THEN PRAISE HIM!:
A. S. Neill, Tthe Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!
The Embry Study:
"While some may find it strange that reprimands might increase the chances
of a child going into the street, the
literature on the experimental analysis of behavior is
replete with examples of how "attention to inappropriate
behavior" increases the chances of more inappropriate
behavior.
Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason
with their children about dashing into the street will
likely to have the opposite impact. Reprimands do not
punish unsafe behavior; they reward it."
Source:
"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to Preschoolers by Parent
Training and Symbolic Modeling for Children:
An Experimental Analysis in the Natural Environment.
Research Report Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."
---------------
> So the treats were probably close enough to being
> allowed, and when I got home from work, I found
> a little bite hole in the bag, and he had helped himself
> to "a few" treats.
Ahhh, sounds like he was SNEAKIN a treat or two...
NO PROBLEMO! It only takes WON DAY to
train ANY dog not to STEAL STUFF, so long as
you simply DO EVERY THING EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE these miserable
stinkin lyin animal murderin pathetic malignant punk
thug coward active accute chronic life long incurable
MENTAL CASES do it themselves <{}: ~ ) >
> Another time I had left some of these on the night
> table by the bed. He helped himself to all but one.
Did he bring your slippers?:
diddy <d...@nospam.diddy.net>
This morning, Tuck was up early, but I wanted
to sleep in. He was rustling around, and I told
him to go to sleep. When I woke up, both slippers
were on the bed with me. But apparently since I
had not acknowledged his work, he paid himself,
because both biscuits were gone!
---------------
> "Good boy"
No, "BAD OWNER!":
Best wishes,
Marshall
---------------------------
Coprophagia, counter surfing, raiding garbage, stealing
chewing and swallowing illicit items etc. are CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING during housebreaking and house training
by AVOIDING TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES, by "puppy
proofing" and lockin puppys in boxes with no food water
or toilet area and ignoring their cries.
LIKE THIS:
From: dermer @alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> > tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
>
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps,
> IMMEDIATELY pick her up ONLY by the skin at the
> back of her neck, for 5 sec, and loudly say, "NO!"
> Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold her mouth shut
> for say 15 sec.
>
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
************
IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?
************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, professor of ANAL-ytic behavior, UofWI.
> From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
> Date: 1999/12/21
> Subject: Re: Doc Dermer's offer
> > In article <tfR74.1$W64....@typhoon3.tampabay.rr.com> "Jerry Howe"
> > <j...@cfl.rr.com> writes:
>
> Lemme aks you sumthin, doc? When you punish your
> dog, do you find that he masturbates more frequently
> after such instances? (referring to your post about your
> dog using a pillow to get himself off).
First, I punish behavior, not dogs.
Second, I rarely issue corrections.
Third, as time goes on my dog uses
the pillow less frequently.
I would say he uses it about once a month. Finally, I'm
not really concerned about my dog's masturbating; I don't
find such dog behavior offensive.
Eating dog poop, for me, is another story. And the rate
of that behavior has also diminished with time. :-)
--Marshall
------------
Poop eatin is CAUSED by your ineffective inapupriate
miserable stinkin bribing crating and HOWEsbreakin
methods and can be EXTINGUISHED NEARLY INSTANTLY.
LIKE THIS:
Here's FIVE cases of COPROPHAGIA CURED
NEARLY INSTANTLY by doing EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE these pathetic
miserable stinkin lyin animal abusing ethologists
PREFER:
From: lolajo...@webtv.net (lolajo...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: My greyhound becoming bully of dog
park, help?
Date: 2004-01-07 01:15:04 PST
What is wrong with "The Puppy Wizard"?
I know his posts are a little wacky but his sound
distraction technique has worked very well for me.
After using traditional training with mixed results,
I was able to stop my dog from jumping up, eating
poop, begging from the table and excessive barking
using his methods.
Lolajoker.
--------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: to Jerry Howe
From: MArtog
Date: Wed, Jan 17 2001 12:51 pm
Email: MArtog <mar...@my-deja.com>
Just wanted to say thanks. The method you told me
to stop my dog from eating my other Labs sh-t in
the backyard has worked well. She has also improved
greatly when off leash out in the woods.
She still sniffs (ofcourse), but I rarely need to stop
her from anything else. I've always been diligent about
watching her, and cleaning up the yard, but ya just
can't be there every second. And she is quick!
So, thanks again for the advice.
I feel more confident now when I turn my back.
And to all you folks going yea, sure, right.
THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST.
HE gave me advice. It worked. Plain and simple.
Nothing more, nothing less.
So Jerry, allthough I don't lurk here, I'm sure
you're still putting up with DogButt and his ilk.
So good keep up the good work!
Off course DogButt will read this, even thoe it doesn't
have his name on it. Cause he thinks he owns the group.
So to you DogButt.........Well,,,,never mind.
You're already a loser. I don't need to tell you that.
Please feel free to correct my spelling/grammer, etc.
Yes, goodbye, good riddance, blah blah blah.
Later.....
MArtog
----------------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog eats poo!
Date: 2000-12-05 00:40:48 PST
I used sound distraction to stop my 2 dogs eating cow poo
during walkies. I posted here a while ago explaining how I
managed to control them from eating it but there were a lot
of sceptics. If your interested I'll be glad to tell you
what worked for me, just let me know and I'll post a thread
on this NG.
Paul
-------------
AND LIKE THIS:
AIMEE
-----------------------
HERE'S HOWE COME:
From: Paul B
Date: Sat, Oct 21 2000 2:18 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>
The sound distraction and praise method he uses is
VERY effective, I use those techniques on my dogs
and the results are great. From teaching a dog to
recall to preventing unwanted behaviours (shit eating,
eating the cats food, growling when taking a bone
from a dog, jumping up, even escaping from the
property, any behaviour).
To say sound distraction and praise
methods don't work is pure ignorance.
I can understand you not liking Jerry and being pissed
off with the posts he submits but please keep things in
context and don't slam a technique just because you can't
stand the person suggesting using it.
Paul.
------------
From: Paul
Date: Wed, Dec 6 2000 12:00 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>
I'm not exactly sure why Jerry is saying to ignore me,
it's his advice that I found was the most successful.
During walks in a particular park the dogs would
come across fresh cow pats and munch away happily.
To stop this I'd set them up, I'd find a nice fresh cow turd
and stand next to it, when the dogs came over and saw it
they would start to munch, at the onset of this I'd chuck a
throw chain near the dog to distract it and praise straight away, the reason
for the praise is the dog stops eating as
soon as it hears the distraction so I'm praising that
behaviour, the not eating.
I'd set them up again and repeat, but make the sound
come from a different direction, maybe the first time
chuck the chain to the right of the dog, the next time
to the left, then behind etc, it's the randomness that is
effective and always sincerely praise immediately.
Now when I walk through the park they leave the turds
alone, they aren't interested in them anymore due to the
distraction training. Don't let the dog know that you
made the sound, the sound just "occurs" this is important
as it removes "you" out of the problem.
Paul
--------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Lynn is a professional horse and dog
trainer of twenty years experience:
Subject: Sweet Coprophagia
From: Lynn
Date: Wed, Sep 18 2002 10:01 pm
Email: roudyre...@yahoo.com (Lynn)
I hate to be in such agreement all the time, but am excited
about Coco the Rotti we have boarded here. Yes she made my job easier (no
poo to pick up) as at her home she eats
poo due to major anxiety and being punished with a stick
for it. She was living on it just about.
It was gross, and she is a beautiful dog.
I decided to change this. It has taken 6 days for HER to
get an appetite and I PICK up poo now. We have yard
kennels here, so it's hard to catch every dog doing everything.
I took all the pressure off her. SHE is using a dog house,
not cowering at her gate. SHE is breaking the habit of body
blocking me so I cannot leave her area. SHE is now playing
ike a normal doggie.
What did I do? Not much. Just ask as the other's are doing,
and be patient. Not making a big deal out of behavior she is
used to being punished for.
I can snap a finger now to distract her, and say "Coco
back good girl" I move into Hot and Cold on a bad day.
The owner just got done putting up a security door due
to her taking out the old one. The dog has quit blocking
me from getting in my door when out for play. My job is
getting easier, it's a pain to be rushed by a pack of
dogs all trying to come in.
Call the dogs puppets, they don't care!
Lynn
--------------------------
From: MArtog
Date: Thurs, Jan 18 2001 7:51 am
Email: MArtog <mar...@my-deja.com>
In article <3A65FE5F.70D8D...@Rosenblatt.com>,
Jos...@Rosenblatt.com wrote:
> Ummm OK
> and if you didn't want Dog'butt' or anyone else to
> raad it.. why didn't you just email Jerry your thanks?
> I smell a rat....
> Bye Bye
Last reply/post from me just to explain to Joshua.
Then I'm outta here (yippee).
No I was not trying to TROLL. I wanted to post a
thank you to Jerry. That's it. Never said I didn't
want anyone else to read it. I did say that I knew
DogButt would read it even thoe it wasn't for him.
He thinks everything in here is his business.
So he had to post some childish response because he
can't help it. He is sooo predictable. He will read
this too and again post a childish response. If he
doesn't, it will show a strength of will that I don't
believe he has.
Not trying to be a rat or anything else. I clearly said
what I wanted to say about Jerry's help with my dog problem.
It is sad that this group is still so antagonistic all the time.
There is a lot of knowledge here, but it is rarely
disseminated in a kindly manner. Most newbies get
ran off in fairly short order, and go over to r.p.d.breeds
where people are much freindlier. Seems like most
posters in here have been around each other too long.
Some sort of internet cabin fever or something (IMHO).
Anyway, I won't be reading your's or DogButt's reply. So
feel free to go at each other's throats as usual,flame me
and my post, whatever.
Again, thanks Jerry and all of you have a nice day......
well except you DogButt!
Maybe Jerry can help you stop eating sh-t!
BYE!
------------
> Muttley and Paul
Date: December 29, 2006 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: Dog chewing up floors
in thread news:aad9p2hg0aei5nijq...@4ax.com: Paula
<mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> whittled the following words:
> I, for one, am glad that the Puppy Wizard comes
> across as a complete loon given what his advice
> is since it makes it less likely that people will take
> it instead of the advice of someone else I think
> gives better advice.
For the record, The Puppy wizard over-rates himself.
But "his" (tm) methods are pretty much tried and true
methods that trainers have used and some still use today.
There are better methods out there now. But the ones
posted in his manual (now that he has removed the
advice to SPIKE a dog's temperature to dangerous
levels) are sound. they work..
no matter what we think of the puppy-wizard and
his packaging... "his methods" <cough> are just
as valid as anyone else's
"His methods" can stand some updating, and he
definitely needs to look at some repackaging.
Hopefully others add a slicker delivery to grab attention,
but truthfully, when you look at the cat fights that go on
here, and stand back and watch in perspective, it's rather
hard to determine the sane ones from the lunatics.
In fact, an awful lot of people here come off looking
rather tainted. A person needs to have a good filtering
device to sort out the noise.
TPW just has a problem that's too painfully obvious.
--------------------
Abuse / fear / aggression / hyperactivity / shyness / suicide
attempts AIN'T a chemical imbalance or genetic problem,
it's a SPIRITUAL problem,
passed on
from WON generatiHOWEN of abuser
to the next,
like the 100th monkey washin fruit in the stream;
After a while it's not just NORMAL, it's OBLIGATORY.
To do otherWIZE would be DISRESPECTFUL
of your parental teachins.
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME
Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear,
Hate, Reflex, Self Will,
Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment,
Guilt, Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness, Aversion,
Attraction, Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion, Change,
Permanence, Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition,
And
Parental / ReligiHOWES / Societal Conditioning.
YOU ARE THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.
It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.
If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.
The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.
He who perceives that the two are one
knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then?
The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >
--------------------------
--Marshall Dermer
----------------
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
Email:
The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply_Amazing_Grand_Puppy_Wizard_ @HotMail.Com
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferett, Goat, Monkey
And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
Lynne
> <Human_And_Animal_[...]@HotMailCom> wrote:
>>> >> This continues whether or not I praise
>>> >> him or "engage him in conversation".
>>
>> Looks like he's bein SPITEFUL. Fine. Perhaps
>> it's time to bring back the PRONG, eh, Paulie?
Sorry to include a JH quote here, but this is pretty significant. Am I
understanding that Paul's doing so poorly that even Howe is suggesting a
prong collar? Or does he mean for it to be used on Paul??
Spiteful dogs... someone should patent those!
--
Lynne
Paul E. Schoen
"Lynne" <unmonito...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9960E34CD4622HD...@216.196.97.142...
Well, Jerry said:
>> Or are you being sarcastic?
> No no, for real. We're workin NHOWE. And
> you're DOIN FINE! Keep up the good work...
>> Again, sarcasm or advice?
> No no, for REAL, Paul. I wouldn't give a ration
> to my STUDENTS, otherWIZE they'd throw me
> the dew claw an NO WON would talk to me!
> Looks like YOU are the ONLY friend I got here, ...
> The "reinforcement never ends" idiocy ONLY happens
> when you use FORCE to "train" a dog, Paulie <{}: ~ ) >
>> [big snip]
> Oh yeah, speakin of SNIPPIN, please DO NOT
> snip cross posts when replying...
No, Jerry, this is the proper forum for this discussion and experiment. You
may do as you wish, but I try to limit crossposting to at most one
additional newsgroup, if the topic has a wide range of interest. I get
enough flak here already that I'm donning a full metal jacket and ducking
and running. (There's a funny in there that a gun person might appreciate).
>> but he is good about counter surfing,
>> so I allow him this guilty pleasure.
> O.K., here's a FAIR deal, Paulie: you teach diddler
> HOWE to train her PERFECT *(tm) dogs to lay off
> stealin from her counters and she'll teach you
> MARKSMANSHIP!
Diddy might help me with pistol, for which I never got a chance to train
and qualify. But I held expert in .22 and M14 rifle, and I was a top
scoring participant (and captain) on the Johns Hopkins University Rifle
Team. Many years ago (1966-1970).
Now to continue where I was previously:
>> When I came back in, I had the bag of treats
>> on the bed where Muttley was stretched out.
>> He put his paw on the bag and looked at me.
> He's ASKIN. You shoulda gave him WON.
>> I had him lie down nicely and gave him a treat.
> No, not a TREAT, that was a REWARD.
> TREATS are UNCONDITIONAL and UNDESERVED,
> just "on accHOWENTA", not EARNED, otherWIZE you
> INCREASE GREED and anXXXIHOWESNESS and risk
> makin the dog AGGRESSIVE:
I sometimes give him a treat "just because". Usually I ask him to sit, but
often he does it on his own. I don't see the harm in this. It's just being
polite. I don't use force or fear, and I don't bark a command, but a gentle
request.
>> I asked him to move back and lie down again,
> Ooops!
>> which he did, and I rewarded him with a treat.
> Yeah, REAL BAD, Paulie.
> BAD BOY! SHAME!
> GO TO YOUR BOX!
>> Ooh, bad, a bribe.
(I was being sarcastic here)
> Yeah, REAL BAD, Paul.
> Givin treats is for PLEASURE.
> Offerin or withHOWELDING bribes
> teaches GREED and AVRICE:
Well, I think Muttley is doing fine, and I don't see a big deal if I can
leave treats in a bag and he doesn't dig in to help himself (except when
they're left on the floor for a while). I have sometimes left him treats
where he can easily get them (just because), and he will usually eat them.
His food is also in a bag by his bowl, and he has never helped himself. I
wouldn't tempt him with really high value treats, however. He has sometimes
taken a sandwich or piece of cheese from the edge of the counter. He has
his limits. He won't be the bacon covered dog, and I don't intend to train
him to fetch hot dogs. He's just good enough for me and government work...
Paul and Muttley
Paul E. Schoen
"Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:janet-CAD826....@news.individual.net...
Muttley and I are having fun with all this. Really we are! And now he has a
job to do. What harm can come of gentle methods? He still responds to a
quick "Anh-anh" if he tries to run out the door before I do. And he looks
right at me for approval to go out. This is important for safety, even
though Jerry might berate me for it. Maybe it can be reinstilled as a
"conditioned reflex" and it will be obeyed instantly and held indefinitely
even with extreme distractions. We'll see.
Paul and the Mutt
Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:
> He's just good enough for me and government work...
If he were good enough for government work, you'd at least be able to
take him for a walk on a loose leash. Yes, anywhere.
You're so far away from "government work" that it can't even be picked
up on radar yet.
Loser.
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@hotmail.com
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:4688893c$0$19103$ecde...@news.coretel.net...
>
> "Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
> news:janet-CAD826....@news.individual.net...
>> In article <468820d3$0$19128$ecde...@news.coretel.net>,
>> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote:
>>
>>> For this experiment, I need to follow Jerry's advice,
Not "advice", Paulie. The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard DON'T
GIVE "advice" or "tips", HE gives INSTRUCTIONS.
OtherWIZE HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horse
Training Method Manual Students WOULDN'T GET
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL RESULTS <{}:~ ) >
WOULD THEY, Paulie <{}: ~ ( >
>>> to the letter, or he can say I did this or that wrong.
THAT'S the beautiful part of MY method, Paulie.
Even if you're TRYIN to follHOWE The Method
an IF you was to do sumpthing DEAD WRONG
you STILL AIN'T gonna HURT your dog, like
HOWE you done when you was under janet's
EXXXPERT IN PERSON supervision and
INSTRUCTION in her OBEDIENCE CLASS
with her CUSTOM MADE pronged spiked
pinch choke collar and your foot on Muttley's
leash crammin him into the grHOWEND like
as if you had a piece of shit on your boot <{}: ~ ( >
>>> But I think you are right,
janet's AIN'T NEVER been "RIGHT", Paulie.
She's been on ANTI PSYCHOTIC medications
for TWENTY YEARS.
>>> it makes sense, and it seems to be
>>> clearly evidenced in Muttley's behavior.
Naaaah? SHAAAZZZAAAMMM???
NO, Paulie. NOT "SHAAAZZZAAAMMM".
IT'S PREDICTABLE:
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated
At UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
ALL TEMPERAMENT AND BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
And 90% Of ALL DIS-EASES
ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING,
Poor Nutrition / Environmental Toxins
And
Iatrogenic Malpractice.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
>>> We'll see what Jerry has to say this
>>> time. I can't be polluting his methods.
NO PROBLEMO, Paulie. THAT'S the BEAUTY of a
CONSISTENT IMMUTABLE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
EVERY mistake you could ever possibly make will be
KNOWN to me just like as if I was settin right there
watchin you, and we can fix it NEARLY INSTANTLY,
so long as you're willin to follHOWE INSTRUCTIONS
like HOWE you done when janet taught you to jerk choke
force bribe and intimidate Muttley on her custom made pronged spiked
pinch choke collar and MADE HIM GO INSANE.
HERE'S HOWE COME:
"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."
Like a confessor Priest?
"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.
Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
>From your own FREE copy of The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett,
Monkey And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog,
Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horse
Training Method Manual:
"The mistakes your dog makes are neither mistakes
nor accidents. They are normal natural innate
instinctive reflexive challenges to your leadership
and authority.
Wits' End Dog Training anticipates these impending
mistakes inherent to each phase of training and relies
on them to turn the tables psychologically on your pet
to convince him you are his appropriate leader and make
him naturally want to do anything you ask the first time.
Wits' End Training is easy, quick, foolproof,
and works every time, with every critter, even
university professors, SP-HOWESES and wolves!
HERE'S HOWE COME:
ETIOLOGY: The study of causative factors creating
symptoms. DOGS DON'T DO THINGS WITHOUT REASONS.
REASONS: Those reasons may not be obvious to
you, but if you looked at life from a dog's point of
view, it would be evident. We'll do that later.
But first, when your dog is disruptive, what gets
all your attention is its behavior. Don't worry
about the misbehavior; find the cause.
As we solve one problem, another will surface
in its place. As we become focused on the
misbehaviors, our attention further compounds
the problem.
In fact, any attention or reaction to misbehavior
can vicariously reward the dog or further incite him."
You PAYIN ATTENTION, Paulie?:
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
ALL TEMPERAMENT AND BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
And 90% Of ALL DIS-EASES
ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING,
Poor Nutrition / Environmental Toxins
And
Iatrogenic Malpractice.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
REMEMER when janet told you to MURDER Muttley?
This requires a basic understanding of how your creature
thinks and learns. That, and the "Family Pack Leadership"
exercise, coupled with installation of the "recall" or "come"
command as a conditional reflex, are all that one needs to
effectively control the companion dog, child, horse, rat, kat,
ferret, birdy, SP-HOWES or professor.
Successful completion of The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's program means you will never need another
dog training lesson again!"
>> You're an ass with your own agenda.
Yeah. Paule want's to TRAIN his dog so's he
can be HAPPY with his behavior and Muttley
will be PRHOWED of him.
While OTOH, janet's AFRAID of NOT HURTIN
dogs to train them an losin her AUTHORITY over
them like HOWE she done to you an Muttley.
>> Your dog is not a lab animal.
Right. OtherWIZE we could just jerk an choke an
shock him under scientifically CON-TROLLED circumstances and get THE
SAME EXXXACT
PRECISE RESULTS, albeit, withHOWET affection.
>> Not a science experiment.
RIGHT! This is PROVEN SCIENCE, not THEORY.
>From your own FREE copy of The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett,
Monkey And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And
Horse Training Method Manual:
"Trivial as this may seem, nothing in the Wits' End
Dog Training Method (at this point) is arbitrary."
>> Nor is he your child.
RIGHT! Dogs do not understand "I'm SORRY I
made a MISTAKE and HURT or INTIMIDATED
you," like HOWE a child or spHOWES would.
>> He's your DOG and needs to be
>> treated well and appropriately.
INDEEDY!:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or
leather choke collar) over his snarly little head,
and give him a stern correction" --Janet Boss
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
> And Sally responded:
> > Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> > that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
> > Sally Hennessey
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging
> puppies across the room!
>
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking
> about a 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy
is very persistant, it can be appropriate to take
hold of the loose skin at the back of the neck and
give a slight shake to the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."
Here's janet's PARTNER who heelped nessa
jerk choke an shock her dogs into INSANITY:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
> > cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
> > then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> > Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
> > The actual quote is misleading
That so?
> > when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
> > and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.
> > is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
Here's yours:
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
"Birds of a feather. You're JUDGED BY the
company you keep. You're ONLY as good as
your WORD. When you GET BAGGED for
LYIN, you're MARKED FOR LIFE," The
Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{}: ~ ( >
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAAAA!!!
>> You are doing him no favors,
INDEEDY. Like HOWE janet done when she
offered to heelp you "TRAIN" Muttley to be
good enough TO GET RID OF him on accHOWENTA
she COULDN'T TRAIN him to BE PALS with
your DEAD KAT Photon <{}: ~ ( >
IN FACT, janet COULDN'T EVEN TRAIN
her owon "rescue" puppy Rudy well enough
to GET RID OF HIM to FIVE families who
LOOKED AT HIM for "adoption" an wouldn't
take him on accHOWENTA he's HYPERACTIVE!:
Subject: The crate escape - my brilliant puppy!
1 From: Janet B
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 7:44 am
Email: Janet B j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com
After Rudy came to stay with us, I got tired of running
into an open crate door, so I bought a new crate, with a
door that folds up and in. "can't be opened from the inside"
says the ad. I always looked at these and hought "right",
but for the last few months (yes, folks, it's been 3.5 months)
it has worked great.
Until Monday.
That's when Mr Smarty-pants decided he knew how
to open it. And greeted us at the door after 6+ hours
of freedom.
A chewed wastebasket lid and a puddle inside the
front door (he loses it if very excited and yesterday
morning I found evidence that a smallish dog had
apparently "visited" right outside my full view front
door) was all that was wrong.
So yesterday, when I left for a short errand, I made
sure to clip the door closed securely. And once again
came home to an unconfined puppy.
So, today, the crate will get clips on the door to ensure
this doesn't happen again. I need him to learn that he
shouldn't let himself out.
But it looks like he's going to be allowed house freedom
within a few days, and since he'll be 9 months old on
Monday, that'll be the day.
I'll take the next few days to put some shoes away and
check out other things he may be interested in, and get
out the bitter apple.
My house is not exactly the neatest place in the world,
and there's a lot of stuff that may be too available and
interesting. We shall see.
My puppy is growing up and too smart for his own good!
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
On 6 Feb 2006 01:19:16 -0800,
"dallygirl" <kwickw...@hotmail.com>, clicked
their heels and said:
> janet, yes unfortunatly i have. i joined a mother and
> daughter duo training group and i am still kicking my
> arse over it :( i have since learnt (and anyone new to
> dogs please take note!) they have no qualifications only
> their own experience.
What exactly does that mean?
> its because of them i am busting a gut
> to get qualified and to join the apdt.
"credentials" only mean something if the issuing
organization is recognized as THE authority. The
American Medical Association, The American Bar
Association - things like that. There is no "whatever"
dog association that licenses dog trainers.
> i saw a massive negative difference in my dogs
> behaviour when on the lead and i didnt yank or
> pull i never would no matter what the 'trainers'
> said.
What exactly were you doing with the lead that
caused a negative behavior? Do you not use a
lead when training? Not on city streets?
> i guess i was as distressed as my dog.
I'm pretty sure you are the only one who was
distressed and you transmitted that to your dog.
> i took a dog out of this real nasty hell hole. the lady
> had set her self up as a rescue then had about 20
> dogs running free in her back garden and it broke
> down to chaos.i took out a young lab female who
> was so scared she wouldnt climb into my car and
> i wasnt going to force her so i just sat next to her
> but on my tail gate. the 'rescue' woman growled
> and grabbed the dog at the back of the neck and
> a lump of flesh at the rump and threw her into my car.
What on earth does that have to do with properly
using a variety of training tools? So far, you've
equated using choke collars with people who enjoy
drop-kicking dogs.
> with ppl such as this working with dogs i want to
> show a 'better way'. i don't refer to them when i'm
> talking to the person on the street as 'tools of horror'
> but i do give them some tips on a nicer way.
When 150# Cujo is trying to eat the dog net
door, what "nicer way" do you employ?
> the thing is, you put one of those around your neck,
> be it choke prong or electric and then tell me you
> want to keep using them.
My neck is very different from a dog's neck. I have
no problem with a choke or prong on my neck - I
would respond accordingly. As far as electric, I have
had a ton of PT at times, and the electricity has been a
godsend.
> ok i am bent over ~ no pointy toes please, but form
> an orderly line to kick my arse..............i am braced :)
Nope - don't believe in kicking. But I do use a variety
of collars when training dogs. I'm not a big fan of
CHAIN chokes, because I don't find them easy to fit
properly. I prefer nylon slip collars in general, will
never connect a leash to a buckle ID collar, and find
prong collars to be very, very useful training tools.
Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond.
--
Janet B
From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:26:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Our new dog???
On 31 Oct 2006 08:06:19 -0500, s...@panix.com
(Melinda Shore), clicked their heels and said:
> Still, I think a Siberian needs space to get his zoomies
> on. I did the on-leash thing for awhile (that was when
> I had fewer dogs, obviously) but when I put up the f
> encing about 5 years ago I could not get the dogs to
> come in for the first few days, they were so happy
> about being able to run freely outside.
I think all dogs, but particularly large, active breeds,
need a safe place to get their ya-ya's out. I consider
off leash exercise to be a necessity, not a luxury. If
more people considered that, I think there would be
a lot fewer large breed adolescent dogs surrendered
to shelters.
There was more than one person who wanted to adopt
Rudy, who did not have a fenced yard. Some were actual
apartments, where others were townhouses with mostly
communal space. That may work for a low to middle key
Golden who could be trained to be fine off leash at a park
or such, but for Wild Thing #2 (guess who's #1!), totally inadequate.
I suspect that a good deal of why he lost his first 2 homes
was due to no place to just blast around. He definitely
blasts around several times a day, and I think that's as
important as the structured exercise.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
--------------------
>> and "un-Lucky" even fewer.
Seems Lucky is doin JUST FINE. And his
irresponsible owners won't be chokin an
shockin him and he won't be swallowin
socks when they ain't lookin and he won't
be locked in a box and gettin abdominal
surgery or gettin run DHOWEN by a car
in front of their HOWES like janet's dogs
Lindy an Franklin done.
From: Janet B
Date: Fri, Mar 3 2006 6:27 pm
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 22:13:32 GMT, Robin Nuttall
<robi...@mchsi.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> Here's the theory. The only people who think Jerry
> makes sense are those with the same mental problems
> as Jerry. I.e., it takes a loon to understand a loon.
I do believe you've hit the nail on the head, Robin.
Getting back to the subject line, I started using the
e-collar with Rudy today. He's hit adolescence and
is so engrossed in munching sticks, flirting with the
Dobe bitch behind us, etc, that his recall has become
a bit inadequate.
Now then, I can go out to him, call him, and he's
fine with that. He comes, sits front, I food reward,
and all is right with the world.
Only he really needs to come from the back of the
yard with me at the back door, 100'+ away. I tapped
him on ~12 (Dogtra 1200) and he perked up and
recalled beautifully.
Did it again at a point where he was in the bushes
and totally focused on something. He came happily,
tail wagging, and got a food reward as well.
Since then, he has just recalled, no tap given.
We'll be using it daily, especially at his most
challenging times of day (the post-dinner Dobe
shmoozing).
I'll be teaching it to DH now, since Rudy rarely
recalls to him in a reasonable amount of time,
and he handles it poorly.
We need to keep endearing the Rude-man to him after all!
--
Janet B
-----------------------
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: Thurs, Dec 1 2005 12:31 pm
Email: lucyaa...@claque.net
Janet B wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2005 23:35:38 -0800, lucyaa...@claque.net, clicked their
> heels and said:
> > That is, except for a sock fetish that did
> > almost cost one of your dogs his life.
> Not quite,
"Not quite" - what? "Not quite" a sock fetish,
or "not quite" almost killed your dog?
> but thanks for playing.
You're always welcome, Janet. <g>
> You really have no idea what
> you're talking about, so I'll leave it at that.
We were talking about the behavioral problems of your
perfectly trained dogs, Janet. Or perhaps you don't
consider sock eating as a behavioral problem?
> > Good point. The truth is that you guys have
> > no method; you have only training tools.
> "you guys"? You're lumping everyone in together?
No, not everyone - only those of you
who do respond in a similar way.
> interesting - very JH-like of you.
See? You're lumping together all of us who happen to
disagree with "you guys". It looks like this lumping
thing is a very human trait.
> I'm a motivational trainer - does that help you?
No, not really - but your honest reply about
the choke collar some time ago did.
> >> How have we failed our dogs?
> > For instance, by failing to make them
> > understand that socks are NOT food.
> Ahhh, Lucy, socks are not treated as food
> or toys - but you'll never quite understand.
Oh, do help me! How exactly ARE socks treated
by a motivational trainer? How do you convey the
dog that thinks that socks are tasty the idea that
socks are not for eating?
> >You mean, something like a sock?
> Nope. He doesn't steal socks and ignores
> socks in my presence.
But he doesn't seem to ignore them at all in your
absence. So how do you solve the problem when
you're not there to prevent the dog to feast on socks?
Do you cage the dog or the socks?
> > Well, does this mean that, in order to make a
> > confident dog to obey, you HAVE to hurt it,
> > at some point - or doesn't it?
> No.
That's nice to hear. So what do you do when the
confident dog chooses to disobey your orders?
> > Well, do tell, please, how people here train when
> > the dog wants something that the trainer doesn't
> > want. Like when the dog wants to eat the trainer's socks.
> Fixated a bit Lucy?
Well, I do have a soft spot for your dog with a sock fetish.
> He doesn't touch socks in my presence and not
> because of any correction of any sort.
Smart dog! All that he has to do is wait until YOU
ARE NOT THERE. Then it's party time, right? Open
season on socks. Janet, how do you prevent the kids
from leaving unsupervised socks in Franklin's presence?
> A breed and familial complusion when
> stressed is another ball of wax.
Could you elaborate, please? Is sock eating "a breed
and familial compulsion"? Sounds awesome!
> Perhaps you should do some research.
Oh, I love to learn these things from you! Straight from
the horse's mouth, as they say - nothing like learning
from someone else's direct experience.
Lucy
HOWEDY janet,
Janet B wrote:
> Rudy, my golden foster puppy, is a wonderful puppy.
Ooops!
> He is mostly housebroken
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!
You mean like your STUDENT nessas's dog Bagle?
You and sinofabitch jerked choked and shocked
him and tied him to the bed or locked him in
the crapper till he TURNED ON HER.
Then you got MAD at paulette "KIND 2 DOGS" -
"Too Many No Kill Shelters" for offering to
"SHELTER" and place them in a nice HOWES
together... REMEMBER?
> (not a good idea to wake up to greet
> DH without going out first!),
OtherWIZE he'll crap his crate.
> beautifully crate trained
You mean he hides in his box.
> (had not been by his first 2 homes),
Perhaps they didn't have a shock collar?
> obedient and snuggly and charming.
So long as he knows you can HURT him somemore.
> For the most part, unless ignored, sits politely
> for greeting and is generally a delight.
So long as you're pattin and feedin him cookies.
> So why is he still here after 2+ weeks?
On accHOWENT of he's HYPERACTIVE and
HOWETA CON-TROLL otheWIZE you wouldn't
keep IT locked in a box.
> I've had 5 interested parties.
But they didn't want to get involved with you
on accHOWENT of you're a screwball.
Janet B wrote:
> On 28 Apr 2006 16:32:26 -0400, s...@panix.com (Melinda Shore), clicked their heels and said:
> I think since that's actually the age at which the dog
> is most likely to find creative ways to get into trouble
> (combined with sufficient physical maturity to be able
> to pull off all kinds of stuff you wouldn't have thought
> possible), crating is a really attractive option for when
> you're out of the house.
You bet, although at least she's not a retriever puppy! ;-D
Rudy is a very smart and creative puppy. He learned to
let himself out of the crate (we fixed that) and he's very
much in his toilet paper phase right now. Good thing
it's relatively cheap. I need to buy some pastel rolls to
douse with bitter apple, keeping the usable stuff in a container.
I'm not sure using BA laced paper is a good
idea.
Adolescents are such interesting creatures - all species. Confinement
is just so wise.....
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
-------------------
>> Go see "Live Free or Die Hard" if you can afford
>> to go. Kevin Smith is younger, but........
That's curiHOWES, ain't it, that janet recommends
you go to the movies INSTEAD of RE READING
Your Own FREE COPY
Of
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
***FREE***
WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horsey Training Method
Manual<{) ; ~ )>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}:~} > < {~ :{@}>
<{}:~}>http://makeashorterlink.com/?K3AD21A3D<{}:~) >
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}:~} > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
> Muttley and I are having fun with all this.
LikeWIZE <{}'; ~ ) >
> Really we are!
As it should be:
"All animals learn best through play," Konrad Lorenz.
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated
At UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
> And now he has a job to do.
JUST LIKE US, eh, Paulie?
> What harm can come of gentle methods?
janet is AFRAID NOT TO HURT and INTIMDIDATE
dogs. If your "EXXXPERIMENT" proves successful,
and IT WILL, provided you follHOWE INSTRUCTIONS
PRECISELY just as you would working with electronics,
janet and the other miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin
punk thug coward active accute chronic life long incurable mental case
professional dog trainers and university trained
ethologists COULD GO HOWETA BUSINESS.
> He still responds to a quick "Anh-anh"
INDEED?
An HOWE would you KNOW THAT, Paulie?
"Anh-anh" AIN'T IN your own FREE copy of
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat,
Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog,
Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horse
Training Method Manual.
IS IT.
IN FACT, it SPECIFICALLY ADVISES
AGAINST THAT kinda IDIOCY as THAT
will TEACH your dog to DO STUFF soon
as YOU ain't in CON-TROLL or can physically
HURT him with a SHOCK COLLAR, Paulie.
>From your own FREE copy of The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett,
Monkey And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And
Horse Training Method Manual:
"If you can't train ALL behaviors NEARLY
INSTANTLY withHOWET PAIN FEAR
FORCE BRIBERY AVOIDANCE CRATING
INTIMIDATION, or witholding UNCONDITIONAL
LOVE TRUST and RESPECT you're using an
ineffective method or you're doin it wrong.
It AIN'T just for DOGS, People. The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's NON PHYSICAL psychological and
scientific Pavlovian and Ericksonian techniques works
for ALL mammals, dogs, kats, rats, ferrets, even birdies
*(which ain't mammals), kids, SP-HOWESES, any
sentinent critter. Just substitute the species you're dealin
with wherever the text sez dog or puppy.
Study The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training
Method Manual carefully and follow all the
instructions and exercises precisely and you'll
get your 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CONTROL
NEARLY INSTANTLY.
An epiphany:
Many years ago The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
thought the SECRET to an effective training manual
laid in the INDEXING and CROSS REFERENCING.
THEN, HE LEARNED that would be the FAILURE
of the method, as people WANT to take the EZ way
HOWET and SKIM over the "unimportant drivel",
stuff that don't apply to *THEM* and *THEIR*
specific PROBLEM.
For that reason and to CONfHOWEND the professional
dog trainers and university obsfucationists who'd try to
skim through the text lookin for MISTAKES to quote,
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard wrote HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual in such a manner as to make it
NECESSARY to read the entire text in order to use
or criticize it.
And THAT'S HOWE COME we GET 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS.
So RELAXXX and ENJOY learnin HOWE to do it
and share it with your friends <{); ~ ) >"
> if he tries to run out the door before I do.
If Muttley BOLTS for the door or the street
tellin him "Anh-anh" may TRIGGER the
OPPOSITION REFLEX and COMPEL
him to GO FASTER AND IT VIOLATES
TRUST and INSTILLS FEAR.
You're NEVER suppHOWESED to say "NO!" or
"Anh-anh" or ANY CON-TROLLIN IDIOCY.
You're suppHOWESED to make a brief variably
alternating sound and INSTANTLY praise for
five to fifteen seconds and allHOWE the dog to
ATTEMPT to REPEAT the behavior and make
another sound from another direction and INSTANTLY
PRAISE for five to fifteen seconds and REPEAT
the SCIENTIFIC PROCESS until EXXXTINCTION.
Muttley is already a VICTIM of TRAUMA:
Here's a other WON of janet's REAL
LIFE IN PERSON "students":
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
Hello everyone:
If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.
I will add a bit more history later in this post.
Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.
The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.
I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pushing his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.
Muttley took the opportunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.
That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.
When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.
She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.
She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.
"They can't all be saved".
<snip>
--------------
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
<snip>
If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience classes at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.
Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------
It was your "Anh-anh" that CAUSED Muttley
to want to attack your kat JUST LIKE HOWE
it was for lynne's LAST TWO "RESCUE" dogs
that SHE GOT RID OF on accHOWENTA THEY
ATTACKED HER and her kats.
HERE'S HOWE COME:
Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07
"Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:janet-730AB8....@news.individual.net...
It seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.
What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.
I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have enough
obedience to avoid it.
While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.
We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
You want another piece of THAT??
> And he looks right at me for approval to go out.
Ahhh, like the Stockholm Syndrome <{}: ~ ( >
PROBLEMO, Paulie...
Did you not read Dr. Twersky's paper on Post
Traumatic Stress Disorder that I posted to this
thread?:
"The resistance to recognizing that trauma can have
long-term psychological effects still persists. Although
there is sympathy for those who were victims of
catastrophic trauma such as an earthquake, tornado
or terrorist attack, there is a less positive attitude
toward people who sustained personal trauma.
As a result, people who have suffered personal
trauma are hesitant to seek help for their problems.
They may do their utmost to cope and may actually
function quite well, but the unresolved residuals of
the trauma may cause emergence of symptoms at
any time.
Shame and guilt may result in the memory
of the trauma being buried in the subconscious
mind, beyond one's awareness.
Children who suffered abuse or molestation may
have difficulties in school performance and socialization.
A variety of pedagogic and psychological techniques
may be used to help them, but as long as the trauma
remains a secret and unattended, they are not likely
to succeed."
And THAT'S HOWE COME
THESE ARE
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat,
Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horse Training Method Manual Forums
And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory <{); ~ ) >
"The emotional aftermath of childhood trauma may
cause serious disturbances in marriage and in parenting.
People seeking psychological help may not even
recall traumatic events of childhood. These
must be skillfully elicited and dealt with."
AND THAT'S HOWE COME these MENTAL
PATIENTS love to say "dogs are SO forgiving",
on accHOWENTA they THINK their dogs can
BURY their SHAME FEAR and GUILT as they
have done themselves... therebye PERPETUATIN
the ABUSE taught by dog lovers like janet and
cesar millan.
AND THAT'S HOWE COME these pathetic miserable
stinkin lyin animal murderin PSYCHOPATHS LOVE
to say "dogs live in the MOMENT", paulie:
Abuse / fear / aggression / hyperactivity / shyness / suicide
attempts AIN'T a chemical imbalance or genetic problem,
it's a SPIRITUAL problem,
passed on
from WON generatiHOWEN of abuser
to the next,
like the 100th monkey washin fruit in the stream;
After a while it's not just NORMAL, it's OBLIGATORY.
To do otherWIZE would be DISRESPECTFUL
of your parental teachins.
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME
Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear,
Hate, Reflex, Self Will,
Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment,
Guilt, Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness, Aversion,
Attraction, Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion, Change,
Permanence, Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition,
And
Parental / ReligiHOWES / Societal Conditioning.
YOU ARE THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.
It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.
If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.
The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.
He who perceives that the two are one
knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then?
The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >
--------------------------
We're not talkin DOG BEHAVIOR we're dealin
with PATHOLOGY, Paulie. We got mentally ill
VICTIMS of ABUSE who do the same same to
their dogs on accHOWENTA THAT'S HOWE
THEY WAS RAISED, Paulie <{}: ~ ( >
> This is important for safety,
Oh, you mean JUST LIKE HOWE it is when
janet jerks an chokes and shocks a dog to
MAKE IT SAFE to be with children JUST
LIKE HOWE marcel done to his dog Mooglie,
Paulie?
> even though Jerry might berate me for it.
You mean, for NOT follHOWEIN INSTRUCTIONS?
> Maybe it can be reinstilled as a "conditioned reflex"
No, you TRAIN the dog not to BOLT by
EXXXTINGUISHING the OPPOSITION
REFLEX by NOT CHALLENGING him
by sayin "Ahh-anh" or tellin him "NO!".
> and it will be obeyed instantly and held
> indefinitely even with extreme distractions.
Oh, you mean LIKE THIS?:
Subject: Chasing squirrels
From: lindalee
Date: Sat, Jan 21 2006 10:34 pm
Email: "lindalee" <llindaleedan...@msn.com>
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
I have not posted to the group for awhile but want
to share my success of teaching my dog Sunshine,
who has a very high prey drive, to not go after
squirrels when on a walk.
It took a few trials but he can now walk right
past squirrels running up a tree or in a yard.
Using Jerry Howe's approach I used a sound to get his
attention when he saw a squirrel and then praised him
and kept on walking past the squirrel.
Where we live in Michigan we lots of squirrels and he
was always wanting to chase them up a tree. Jerry's
approach of sound and praise really works.
I think the people who discount his methods have never
tried the method because it works everytine. Sometimes
it takes a little practice to get the sound from different
directions but I was able to change Sunshine's behavior in
just a week after we moved back to Michigan.
Sunshine is a very sensitive dog so any physical corrections
just won't work but using sound and praise he is a really
great dog who opens doors, picks up things I drop, and and
helps me a lot.
If you have a behavior problem with your dog get a
copy of Jerrry's manual and solve your problem!
----------
Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsend...@aol.com
Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.
My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.
When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.
I will write to Amanda about the video.
I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.
Thanks again
Paul
------------------------
Here's trainer and author LeeCharlesKelley's
GENTLE, EFFECTIVE method bein described
by elizabeth naime, PROFESSIONAL DOG
TRAININ FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST and
MENTAL PATIENT:
"Elizabeth Naime" <ena...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:r2itp09ioneibmse2...@4ax.com...
> Quoth Handsome Jack Morrison
> <me10...@privacy.net.invalid> on Sat, 20 Nov 2004
> 02:15:55 GMT,
>
> >What's the difference between making, say, a
> >hard-charging field-bred retriever (say an equally
> >independent Chessie) "reliably do something that is
> >completely contrary to its wiring," e.g.,
>
<SNIP>
>
> Couple of years ago by now, a woman with fox
> terriers wrote about training a recall on the
> clicktrain list. She had used a long line and
> proofed for distractions per Koehler; yet the dog
> knew when he was on a line and when not, and
> would ignore her when there were squirrels to chase.
>
> She had used an e-collar under the direction of a
> professional, who said he had never met a dog who
> could tell whether he was wearing the real thing or
> the dummy collar, as her dog seemed able to.
>
> Heck, they're terriers. Chasing squirrels or other
> irresistable prey, they'll scramble through thorny
> bushes, tumble down rocky hills, and the prey could
> always bite back (though I'm thinking more of
> badger dogs -- the Cairn Terrier, the West Highland
> White Terrier, and the hunting Dachshund -- badgers
> are reputed to be pretty tough critters). And none of
> that diminishes the fun. What's a few scratches and
> lumps and bruises? And what are corrections
> from a long line or an e-collar in the face of such
> delightful temptation?
>
> What did work for her, at last, was chasing
> squirrels with the dog. I believe she used a harness
> with a long line and a snapback, not to correct the
> dog, but to ensure that during training he simply
> wasn't able to enjoyably chase squirrels without her
> cooperation.
>
> Each time he focused on her rather than a
> nearby squirrel, the reward was that they
> chased the squirrel together.
>
> The fact that his best friend and fellow squirrel
> chaser was a bit clumsly and let the squirrels
> get away didn't bother him... apparently the
> chase was the best part.
>
> Once he got the picture (not long at all) the dog took
> to running over and stepping on her foot when there
> was chasable prey about... which pretty much took
> care of the squirrel chasing problem, as she was
> then able to pick him up and/or reward him with a
> joint chase when appropriate and not too
> embarassing.
>
> A good while after this training success, she found
> that he would run and touch her foot to alert her to
> prey *she* hadn't seen yet. Which gave her time to
> pick him up the time he saw the chicken first...
>
> There are limits, obviously. You can't chase deer
> with your dog; ain't proper and the game warden's
> not gonna be happy with it.
>
> However, I think there's a lesson here for all trainers,
> about the dog knowing what's reinforcing and what's
> not (treats ranking lower than squirrels for this dog)
> and about modifying "drives," setting rules and limits
> rather than trying to "put a stop to it" entirely.
>
> So the retriever gets to chase and retrieve birds,
> the scent hound gets to use his nose, the terrier
> gets to chase the prey, the greyhound gets to lure
> course (or, squeamish though I personally might be
> about it, open-field course)... on the handler's
> terms.
> ---------------------------------------------------
BWEEEEAAAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!
> We'll see.
INDEED? WE JUST DONE THAT, Paulie.
>From your own FREE copy of The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett,
Monkey And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And
Horse Training Method Manual:
"This One Instance Of Inconsistency Just Fractured
His Entire Concept Of The Infrastructure Of Your
Home And your and His Roles In It.
If you cannot make up your mind as to what is
important, then he needs to make decisions so
as to insure stability in his den.
7C. More Subtle Examples of Unacceptable Dominance
How about every time your dog steps on your
feet? Don't you think your dog knows where
each of his feet are, and where they belong?
Or, how about his tail? Does he accidentally
smack you as he goes by? Maybe he clears
your coffee table as he moves past?
Certainly you can't expect your dog to understand
that this long, unwieldy appendage can rearrange
your knick-knacks or whatever.
"Maybe it's best to keep him out of those areas.
Besides, he's like a bull in a china shop."
We don't need to put up with these sorts of
"unavoidable" impositions on our lives or property.
You may say, "But surely there's no way to correct
such innocent impositions."
If you believe that, then you've wasted your time
reading this manual. Either start over again, or
reexamine your thinking. Let's look at how you
might remedy these situations. Remember, your
dog is going to model your behavior and act in kind.
You set the standard for good behaviors by demonstration.
Complex activities are LEARNED MORE QUICKLY
through OBSERVATION (copying, if you will) than
by trial and error with reinforcemet (Luchins,)."
THAT'S HOWE COME Muttley WON'T LOOK AT
YOU when you're doin the Hot & Cold EXXXORCISE.
> Paul and the Mutt
From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method
I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.
The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.
It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.
Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.
One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.
When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.
You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).
Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.
What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.
At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.
Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.
Is Jerry a nut?
It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.
More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.
I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?
Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.
Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.
Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.
Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.
If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?).
--Larry
--------------------
"Tara" <taragre...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:41CAF38E...@verizon.net...
> vampyressk...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Tell her your puppies are trying to chew
> > the walls or floor or steal food off the
> > counters. Ask her how to teach them
> > her "LEAVE IT" command. She won't tell
> > you what she does. She jerks and chokes
> > them on pronged spiked pinch choke collars
> > and SCREAMS "LEAVE IT!". And denies
> > she hurts and intimidates dogs.
> You're listening to JERRY HOWE????
Yeah. The Amazing Puppy Wizard just taught
her HOWE to POISON PROOF her puppys and
train them to stay in the kitchen withHOWET a
gate or cage or hurting and intmidating them
like HOWE you would to POISON PROOF or
train a dog to STAY in a room or yard and not
leave it's BHOWENDARIES.
> Are you kidding?
Nope. It only takes a couple minutes if you know HOWE.
> Its a really sad thing that you have chosen
> to align yourself with one of the most insane
> posters on all of usenet
You mean on accHOWENT of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard teaches HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
HOWE to get 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CON-
TROLL NEARLY INSTANTLY withHOWET HURTIN
noWON other than the professional lying dog abusing
punk thug coward and active long term incurable
MENTAL CASES HE'S IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED
and DISCREDITED by QUOTING their own words?
> (he's actually famous on quite a few
> newsgroups for being certifiable,
INDEED? You've got a very long history of hurting
dogs and lying abHOWET it and bein an active long
term incurable multi substance abuser and victim of
physical SPHOWESAL and parental abuse which
made BOTH them and you, a MENTAL CASE.
> and has been tossed off of more than one ISP
> for his behavior)
That's false. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's POSTS
have been INVESTIGATED by EVERY ISP HE'S
used and FHOWEND to be FACTUAL and
THEREFORE they CANNOT OBJECT TO ANY
THING The Amazing Puppy Wizards SEZ so long
as HE QUOTES YOU when HE IDENTIFIES YOU
as LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES.
> rather than actually try and understand how
> what you are doing is hurting puppies and dogs.
We was talkin abHOWET your LEAVE IT command
and HOWE you POISON PROOF and PERIMETER
TRAIN a puppy, taragreen2.
REMEMBER?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just TELLIN HOWER
new poster that you HURT dogs to train them and if she'd
ASK YOU for your LEAVE IT COMMAND you'd TEACH
HER HOWE to JERK and CHOKE and SHOCK and
SPRAY AVERSIVES in her puppys face to TRAIN IT.
> But you've made your priorities clear.
INDEEDY!
> By the way, Jerry's lies about me
CITES PLEASE?
> have embarrassed more than one poster.
That so? You mean you and your pals...
> He recently humiliated a colleague of his (one
> that I know personally) by lying to him to entice
> him into fighting me in the ng.
Oh? You mean LeeCharlesKelly? You and your
punk thug coward mental case pals called him
a LIAR on accHOWENT of he learned HOWE
to train dogs NEARLY INSTANTLY withHOWET
HURTING THEM, although he uses a somewhat
different method than The Amazing Puppy Wizard.
> Turned out Jerry wasn't exactly telling the truth then,
Well, on accHOWENT of you DENIED talkin abHOWET
Lee's methods when you was talkin abHOWET Lee's
methods just on accHOWENT of you didn't mention
HIS NAME as the SOURCE of your "information" you
misled Lee to believe that The Amazing Puppy Wizard
said you was talkin abHOWET HIM, not HIS METHOD
which you BUNGLED and offered some other imbecile's
take on "TRAINING IN DRIVE."
HOWEver, that's neigther fish nor FHOWEL.
The QUESTION IS, HOWE does taragreen2
POISON PROOF or PERIMETER TRAIN a dog?
BWEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOU CAN'T, on accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE.
> just as he's not telling the truth now.
YOUR LEAVE IT COMMAND, taragreen2?
Re: why are Tara Green and Leah talking about
me, or are they?
"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@aol.com
wrote in message news:
98802f677eaeef38...@localhost.talkaboutpets.com...
> Re: Magic Bait Bag & Clicker Fun
> Kelley: I see now why Jerry thought my
> techniques were under discussion --
> they kind of were. From my website:
And Lee cites the CASE HISTORY from his
website remarkably similar to what you posted,
IN FACT it was nearly verbatim.
> But its clearly not your style to get educated *before*
> you act. This would be just another example of that.
YOUR LEAVE IT COMMAND,taragreen2?
> My posting history speaks for itself.
INDEED. YOU REFUSE TO TEACH US YOUR
LEAVE IT COMMAND on accHOWENT of you
HURT and INTIMDIATE dogs and LIE abHOWET it.
GO AHEAD. TEACH US YOUR LEAVE IT COMMAND.
BWEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> So does yours by now.
Well La Di Da, taragreen2, Lee was just SAYIN:
Re: why are Tara Green and Leah talking
about me, or are they?
"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@aol.com
wrote in message news:
1aa20e772f244963...@localhost.talkaboutpets.com...
> Okay, I got an e-mail from that crazy person Jerry
> (who, by the way, is totally not crazy but incredibly
> sane, without the need for Halidol or Prozac like
> some of you here), and he said that Tara and Leah
> were talking about me as if they understood or used
> my training methods.
>
> Now, Tara I can understand because she's actually
> read, and partially understood "Natural Dog Training",
> but Leah?
> And frankly? My problem is that right now, I'm trying
> to finish the last two or three chapters I have left right
> now on my latest novel so I can wrap up the story in a
> nice Christmas bundle ("Twas the Bite Before Christmas",
> due in stores in Nov. 2005, though "To Collar a Killer", a
> great summer read, and a lovely Christmas novel to boot,
> has just been released to stores this week) and so I don't
> have the time to defend myself from whatever shenanigans
> are going on on this wonderful message group.
> I can't even find the right thread to post this in . . .
"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@aol.com
wrote in message
news:2b0408de52146514...@localhost.talkaboutpets.com...
> Tara:>Again, it depends on how you look at it, I think.
> There are all kinds of micro moments within a training
> moment. We al chose which micro moments to reinforce
> and which to "punish" (and I'm NOT going down thatroad
> again!).
The heel you AIN'T you lying dog abusing mental case.
> I've been experimenting recently with Jerry Howe's
> method of using a sound distraction, then praising
> the dog, without any physical contact, for 15 seconds.
> My initial reaction to his technique was that it
> was silly to keep praising the dog that long. I
> mean, Jerry's a nut, right?
> But in every case except one, when I've followed
> the exercise exactly, I've seen a definite physiological
> change take place in the dog -- yawning or stretching
> have been the usual indicators -- and after only a few
> repetitions, the dog often relaxes, curls up, and goes
> to sleep!
> I've tried this on barking, counter-surfing, separation
> anxiety, even two dogs who live together and fight
> constantly. I was pretty amazed when I saw this little
> Boston give up her aggression and start to yawn!
> It's too early for me to be convinced that it will work
> every single time with every single dog, or that it will
> even have a lasting effect on these dogs, but so far
> I think that it's effective at reducing emotional tension,
> which, as you know, I believe that all behavior comes
> from the dog trying to find a way to reduce emotional
> tension.
> If you give the dog a replacement behavior that
> successfully reduces emotional tension, the first
> behavior will no longer be necessary and the dog
> will stop doing it.
> Tara
Re: Your Training Modality is Driving Your Dogs Crazy
"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@aol.com
wrote in message
news:e3d001a4e1c845dc...@localhost.talkaboutpets.com...
> Leah:>>Is there something wrong with being curious?
> Morrison:>You're not curious, Leah.
> IMO, you're just wishy-washy.
> Kelley: I hardly think that being open to
> new ideas qualifies as being "wishy-washy".
> To me it shows intellectual curiosity, which
> is always a good thing.
> Morrison:>You keep thinking that there's some
> "new" method out there that will VOILA!, magically
> transform you into a great trainer, and overnight, too.
Yeah, JUST LIKE HOWE ALL The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students all over the Whole Wild World
who REPORT 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CON-TROLL
and CURE ALL temperament and behavior problems
NEARLY INSTANTLY.
YOU CALL THEM LIARS and FORGERIES,
REMEMBER taragreen2? BWEEEEEEAHAHAHA!!!
> >It just doesn't work that way.
DOES NHOWE, you lyign dog abusing
punk thug coward fraud.
> Kelley: In actual fact, it worked exactly that
> way for me. It's long been my contention
> that if I can get amazing results just by testing
> Kevin's techniques to see if they work, when
> I'm not really a dog trainer, but a writer at heart,
> then people who are really dog trainers at heart
> should be able to far surpass me and my meager
> talents in this field. Of course, that was before it
> began to dawn on me that far too many dog trainers
> only *became* dog trainers because it gave them
> an opportunity to flex their muscles and exert some
> kind of "power" and "control" over animals, when
> the real talent is in teaching these animals how to
> control their own behavior.
> But where's the fun in that when what you really
> want to do is be in control and tell the dog what
> to do or not to do all the time?
> It's a totally foreign concept, sadly, for most dog
> trainers to learn how to give up control to the dog!
> That means you have to trust the dog's
> instincts, not fight them.
> Leah:>>This "praise the dog when he misbehaves"
> thing keeps coming up, and nobody has been able
> to explain it to me.
> Morrison:>That's because no one can.
> Actually, Jerry Howe explains it pretty well.
> And in the instance I related, where I praised my
> dog when he found a chicken breast, it seems to
> me that the answer is very clear.
> He went after it, not because he was hungry,
> but because he was feeling a need to connect
> to something through his instincts.
> My sudden praise provided him with a stronger
> and more satisfying feeling than he got from grabbing
> the "forbidden fruit", and so he willingly gave it up,
> because it didn't provide him with the same level
> of satisfaction.
> It's really that simple.
> Will it work every time with every dog?
BET YOUR DOGGAMNED LIFE ON IT.
> Sure, but only if the praise provides a higher level of
> satisfaction for the dog than whatever behavior he's
> engaged in.
Well THAT'S HOWE COME we NEVER scold
or punish bribe intimdate or physically force a
dog child or spHOWES. AIN'T IT.
> That sounds like pure operant conditioning to me,
> something you supposedly understand.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't understand
such scientific terminology... to HIM, OC means
HURT INTIMDIATE and PUNISH dogs.
> But then you'd have to realize that praise
> is not what you think it is.
Yeah. If we withHOLD it it can be a PUNISHER.
and THAT would CONfHOWEND TRAINING. So
THAT'S HOWE COME we always PRAISE IN
ADVANCE when POISON PROOFIN and PERIMETER
TRAININ a dog.
"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@aol.com
wrote in message
news:f586bbe9467a482e...@localhost.talkaboutpets.com...
> Leah:>>Is there something wrong with being curious?
> Morrison:>You keep thinking that there's some "new"
> method out there that will VOILA!, magically transform
> you into a great trainer, and overnight, too.
> >It just doesn't work that way.
> Kelley: Actually, that's exactly how it worked with me.
> Within the first day of using these techniques I
> went from becoming a run-of-the-mill trainer to
> being pretty damn good, if I do say so, and all
> by testing the techniques, just to see if they worked.
> I've said from the beginning that if I can get the kind
> of results I do when I'm not really a dog trainer at heart,
> but a writer, then someone who's really a dog trainer
> at heart would become a far better trainer than I am
> instantly using these methods.
> Somewhere along the line, however, I discovered a
> dirty little secret about the mentality of most dog trainers:
> they only *became* trainers because they liked the feeling
> of power and control it gave them.
> If that's the case with you, then you definitely
> wouldn't like natural dog training because it
> ultimately teaches a dog how to control his own
> behavior.
> In fact in some ways, it forces you to give
> control over to the dog because it works
> by fostering trust in a dog's natural instincts
> instead of fighting against them all the time.
> When you put yourself in alignment with the
> dog's instincts, the dog will naturally obey you
> under any and all circumstances because that's
> the most fundamental part of his nature.
> I came across the following quote recently, and
> though I have no idea who Edward Hoagland is,
> I think what he says here speaks volumes:·"In
> order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely
> try to train him to be semi-human. The point of
> it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming
> partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland
> Leah:>>This "praise the dog when he misbehaves"
> thing keeps coming up, and nobody has been able
> to explain it to me.
> Morrison:>That's because no one can.
> Actually, Jerry Howe explains it pretty well.
> And as for the incident I related where I praised
> my dog when he found a juicy chicken breast
> and my praise caused him to drop it, and
> subsequently got him to stop scavenging
> altogether, the answer is pretty clear.
> He didn't pick it up because he was hungry,
> he was just looking for something to do that
> would satisfy an inner emotional need relating
> to his instincts.
> When I praised him suddenly and very enthusiastically,
> he dropped the chicken breast because the praise
> provided him with more emotional satisfaction than the
> chicken breast did at that paricular moment.
> You could look at this as being an example of pure
> operant conditioning, if you like (though it's not), but
> it would still mean that you would have to give up your
> ideas of what praise is and how and why it works.
> Morrison:>every single method out there is based
> on CC and/or OC. That's a fact.
> No, it's not a fact. The only reason it seems so
> to you is because it's basic premise is tautological
> (and also because, IMO, you have a tiny mind).
> And dogs do not learn things by association or
> repetition or trial and error, but through their emotions.
> Even Pavlov said so: "Positive emotions arising in
> connection with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
> of its pragmatic significance at a given moment,
> serve as the reinforcement."
> So, we're back to the anterior cingulate cortex, which
> is where emotional memories are stored.
"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@aol.com
wrote in message news:
8eecd625f0323da4...@localhost.talkaboutpets.com...
>
> Leah:>>Is there something wrong with being curious?
>
> Morrison:>You're not curious, Leah. IMO, you're just wishy-washy.
> Kelley: I don't have the same history that you seem
> to have with Leah, but I hardly think being open to
> exploring new ideas qualifies as being "wishy-
> washy". To me it shows intelligence. But then,
> from what I've seen, you've demonstrated a singular
> kind of black-and-white mentality and a highly
> ignorant closed-mindedness.
> Morrison:>You keep thinking that there's some
> "new" method out there that will VOILA!, magically
> transform you into a great trainer, and overnight,
> too.
> >It just doesn't work that way.
> Kelley: Actually, that's *exactly* how it worked with me.
<snip>
> That's because when you put yourself in alignment with
> a dog's instincts, the dog will naturally obey you under
> any and all circumstances because group harmony and
> cooperation, when properly nurtured, are the most
> fundamental aspects of a dog's nature.
<snip>
> Leah:>>This "praise the dog when he misbehaves"
> thing keeps coming up, and nobody has been able
> to explain it to me.
> Morrison:>every single method out there is based
> on CC and/or OC. That's a fact.
> No, it's not a fact. The only reason it seems factual
> to you is because the basic premise of behavioral
> science is tautological in nature (and also because,
> IMO, you have a tiny mind).
> In my estimation it's more likely that there are little
> green men on Mars than that what you think is
> operant conditioning is what's really taking place
> when a dog learns *anything*.
> Dogs do not learn things by association or by repetition
> or by trial and error, but through their emotions, pure and
> simple.
> Even Pavlov said: "Positive emotions arising in
> connection with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
> of its pragmatic significance at a given moment,
> serve as the reinforcement."
> Of course, even Pavlov got it wrong on the
> most basic level, since there really is no
> such thing as a reinforcement, but that's
> another story for another day.
And whaddaya know, here it is, a other day:
"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@aol.com
wrote in message
news:fe89332a1bde5615...@localhost.talkaboutpets.com...
> Loathesome Jack Morrison wrote:[snip of the usual and
> *extremely* repetitive, verbose, bizarre, pseudoscientific
> psychobabble and gibberish, sounding very much like the
> repeated flushing of a toilet somewhere in Uzbekistan]
> >The point is, you're a doofus, Kelley, and that you
> > associate with the wrong kinds of people. Jerry
> > Howe got you into this mess, but he can't get you
> > out of it.
> > [even more superfluous and totally irrelevant
>> drivel snipped)
> (a little snipping of my own)
> > I think I've already been pretty clear, and succinct,
> > about what I think of you as a trainer, Kelley. I'm
> > known the world over for my clarity and succinctness.
> Somehow I doubt that's what you're actually known for*.
> > But the more that you ramble on, the more that I
> > also realize that you're just a big pompous asshole
> > of a human being, too.
> *See? You may think that's succinct, but it's
> really just sour, angry, and extremely juvenile.
> >>I wish I'd had a video camera with me when
> >> I worked with Margo.
> > Margo must be a cat, because I don't think you've
> > ever worked with a real dog in your life.
> Typical. I present a true story that illustrates the
> differences in our philosophies and instead of
> examining my process with the dog -- which is
> something you apparently couldn't possibly
> comprehend -- you toss off a dismissive one-liner,
> questioning my veracity.
> I was there, Jackie. I felt my testicles go into hiding
> the second that apartment door opened. I mean, this
> dog really wanted to kill me. But do you examine the
> key points in the process, maybe scratch your head a
> little, try to figure it out?
> No, you just pretend it never happened.
> That says a lot more about your credibility (or lack
> of it) than it does mine.
> Here are the sections you so injudiciously snipped:
> >> I was met by a Rottweiler who'd been kept in
> >> a locked basement so long that her puppy collar
> >> had to be surgically removed. She exhibited intense
> >> aggression toward me when I came to her new
> >> owner's door and her owner,who had AIDS, was
> >> unable to control her.
> >> I suggested that he leash the dog and meet
> >> me in the lobby, where I lay on the floor,
> >> encouraging the dog to approach me in whatever
> >> way felt comfortable to her. After she made contact,
> >> we went back up to the apartment and ten minutes
> >> later she was lying on her back next to me, on the
> >> couch, with her legs in the air, happily mouthing my
> >> hand (which I had deliberately and purposely put
> >> inside her mouth).
> (Scratching your head yet?)
> >> I suggested that the owner do the same mouthing
> >> exercise I was doing, on a daily basis, and play tug-
> >> of-war with the dog every day, always letting her win
> >> and praising her for winning.
> >>That was the last time she was aggressive to anyone.
> >> (I forgot to mention that I also told him to never
> >> say "No!", never correct the dog for anything, and
> >> to always praise her for barking whenever someone
> >> new came to visit.)
JUST LIKE HOWE IT SEZ in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
> (Puzzled at all, Jackie? Wait, there's more:)
> >> you can probably see from what I described
> >> with the Rottweiler that you and I have very
> >> different ways of doing things. Kevin Behan,
> >> who's worked for more than thirty years with
> >> hard cases, said that his whole approach to
> >> problem dogs changed when he learned to
> >> "give the dog permission to bite",
JUST LIKE HOWE IT SEZ in your FREE
copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End DogTraining Method Manual.
> >> something which, I assume, would get
> >> a huge <boggle> from you
Seems HOWER DOG LOVERS are abHOWET
all laffed HOWETA laffs. BWEEAAAHAHAAA!!!
THAT'S HOWE COME they sez "HE who laffs last..."
> >> and most other trainers.
Like those The Amazing Puppy Wizard has
IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED.
> >> (What? No boggle?)
IT AIN'T OVER TILL THE FAT LADY SINGS.
> >> Giving the dog "permission to bite" (which
> >> is different from "letting" the dog bite) can
> >>often defuse an aggressive situation dramatically.
INDEEDY. JUST LIKE HOWE IT SEZ.
> >> I can't pretend to know what you would
> >> have done with Margo, neither can you.
tommy or taragreen2 woulda HUNG the dog a la koehler.
> >> But I assume, and perhaps wrongly, that you
> >> would have seen this as a case that required
> >> physical "discipline". I was there and it was my
> >> feeling when I met her that discipline was the last
> >> thing that poor dog needed.
Yeah. It's the last thing anyWON needs, EXXXCEPT
HOWER DOG LOVERS who HURT INTIMDIATE
and MURDER dogs and LIE abHOWET it.
Like you, taragreen2.
> (Oh, and did I mention? I was absolutely right.)
> So stop ducking the hard questions (the way you
> did with my examples of why praising a dog for
> misbehavior is effective, or the examples I gave
> showing why the old model of learning, which says
> that it takes place by a process of association,
> repetition, or trial and error, is wrong).
> You're a big mouth, right? You know more than I do,
> supposedly. So where's your God *now*, Moses?
> Huh? Why is it that what I did with Margo turned
> her from a snarling beast into a sweet, cuddly toy?
> One other question: what the hell are you so angry about?
Seems HOWER DOG LOVERS got a case
of The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Paula
news:Fri99609E33021F2au...@rocky-dog.com:
> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>> As others have suggested, he'll sure look at me and give me
>> a lot of attention if I have some treats with me. I had
>> some in a bag on my belt before visiting Lucky yesterday,
>> and I was wondering why Muttley stayed real close to me
>> while I gave him a quick walk. Duh!@@
>>
>> But that would be a bribe, and of course he's looking at
>> the treats, not at me.
>
> Praise, treats, play, whatever are only bribes if you use them
> as such. There's a big difference between a bribe and a reward,
> mostly to do with your timing.
>
I'm having a really hard time with this. I can imagine having to do
attention exercises to get a dog to pay attention to you instead of the
squirrel that is running across his path or to pay attention to you when
you first get him or something. But am I missing something here when I
don't get why you would have such trouble getting a dog to even look at
you when it has lived with you and only you for months? My dogs are
constantly checking out what I am doing and trying to get my attention,
it seems to me. I don't walk around with treats in my hands or pockets.
I sometimes wish they would pay less attention to me, like when they
think I need company in the bathroom. I just don't get a situation where
the dog seems to never be looking toward the owner, always looking away.
Paula
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@hotmail.com
not so happy, not so gentle, not so manly, jackass
not even morrison aka joey finnochiarrio aka howie
lipshitz aka BIG DADDY aka DOGMAN you pathetic
miserable stinkin anonymHOWES malignant lyin dog
child an spHOWES abusing punk thug coward active
acute chronic life long incurable mental case and
paranoid homophobe, misogynist puppy miller and
shock collar salesman,
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <handsomeja...@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:li7g839lpq94bbmh2...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 16:46:45 -0400, elegy
> <el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 16:05:15 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> As others have suggested, he'll sure look at
>>> me and give me a lot of attention if I have
>>> some treats with me. I had some in a bag on
>>> my belt before visiting Lucky yesterday, and
>>> I was wondering why Muttley stayed real
>>> close to me while I gave him a quick walk.
>>> Duh!@@
>
>>> But that would be a bribe, and of course he's
>>> looking at the treats, not at me.
>
>> so reward him with the treat when he
>> looks at you instead of at the treat.
THAT'S INSANE:
From: "Larry M Male" <larrymm...@yahoo.com>
To: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Cocker with ear infection
Thanks Jerry,
I enjoyed the scientific discussion debunking
operant conditioning for teaching thinking animals.
Humans think by forming concepts. All of their
knowledge is held as a hierarchy of concepts
(more complex concepts defined in terms of
simpler ones). In my mind, to treat such a being
as a B. F. Skinner robot is criminal.
I don't believe that dogs hold their knowledge
as concepts as do humans but their ability to
think is unquestionable.
Operant conditioning doesn't utilize an animal's
ability to think. When you show a dog what you
want them to do, then they are able to grasp the
problem; they are able to think about it and to
integrate possible solutions into their mind.
But with operant conditioning a trainer is actually
hiding the problem to be solved from the animal.
For example, it is good for your dog's attention to
be upon you. When heeling, he will notice your
movements, your subtle hand signals, your facial
expressions and he will immediately sense your
next command. But the clicker trainers have forgotten
the reasons why a dog's attention should be upon you.
So they condition a dog to unnaturally cock his head
to stare upward at you. The dog doesn't appreciate
the meaning of this and neither does the trainer. Since
this unnatural behavior is prized in the obedience ring,
the clicker trainers are motivated to condition it.
Don't you think that the "high five" hand shake that
clicker trainers use to motivate novices looks like a
Nazi salute (an unthinking reflex). It is not at all like
a warm hand shake from a loving companion, is it?
Some of your testimonials bring tears to my eyes. I
love to see how some "thinking" people appreciate
your methods.
--Larry
---------------
>><http://www.flyingdogpress.com/rewards.html>
susan clothier is a dog abusing coward.
Subject: Thinking Dogs
From: TooCool
Date: Tues, Jul 27 2004 2:56 pm
Email: "TooCool" larrym...@hotmail.com
Using a proper training method, a method consonant
with a dog's nature, it is possible to enhance a dog's
ability to think.
If their thinking faculty is not exercised and developed
then dogs have a tendency to bounce around, like a billiard
ball, from one stimulus to another.
But when a dog's thinking faculty is exercised and
developed then they enjoy using that faculty more
and more. They begin to feel pride in their
accomplishments-you can observe their delight in
the way that they love to show off what they have
learned.
As their thinking faculty develops you will begin
to see them improvise more and more, i.e., applying
what they have learned to new situations.
Operant conditioning (clicker training) does not
exercise a dog's ability to think-it conditions a
reflex like reaction at the nervous system level.
If you desire to train a thinking dog, please read
the Puppy Wizard's Wits' End Training Method-
it caters to the nature of our thinking dogs.
--Larry
----------------------
> Isn't this the point where Jerry runs up to them
> both, slaps Elegy in the face and screams "Stay
> away from my man! He's mine!"
Naaaah. It's hugely unlikely The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard
would be running anyHOWE. As unlikely perhaps, as
HE'D be jealHOWES or possessive. EVEN MOORE
unlikely than that'd HE'D EVER slap someWON in the
face or scream at them...
HOWEver, it's even less likely than that HE'D just
walk up to them an knee them in the chest or shove
HIS fingers DHOWEN their throat or throw them
to the grHOWEND an climb all over them like a
raped ape and grHOWEL into their throat an bite
them on the ear or beat them with a stick or heavy
man's leather belt and pinch their ears between a
shotgun shell and the buckle on their collar or shock
them with your 100 levels of static like stimulation
collar or hang them over a door or tree limb like
HOWE it sez in your koehler book <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
=====================
"Swatting a dog on the nose is
always the wrong thing to do."
From: qbt...@v1.arg (Dogman)
Date: 1997/01/24
Subject: Re: Over-Excited Lab
On a cold day in Hell, Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:53:10
Teaching a puppy to stop biting and nipping people is
probably the very easiest thing you will ever do as a dog
trainer. Don't make such a big deal out of it.
It's E-A-S-Y, but it won't be done in just one or
two lessons. You must be C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T.
And P-A-T-I-E-N-T.
Whenever your puppy bites or nips you (or anyone else
in your family), do any one of the following:
1.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your index
finger.
2.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly grasp your puppy's lower jaw with your
right hand (if you are right handed), your right thumb stuck
down and under her tongue, your other fingers wrapped
under her jaw, and gently but firmly shake her jaw back
and forth a couple of times.
3.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently place a couple of fingers into her mouth, trying to
touch the back of her tongue with them, initiating a gag
reflex.
Immediately after doing any one of the above,
stop playing with her for at least 15-20 minutes
and completely IGNORE her. Do not even make
eye contact!
I promise you, Phil, that if you will be consistent in
the application of the above, your puppy will soon stop
nipping and biting people. Just how soon this occurs depends upon the
puppy, how well you execute the
above, and how C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T you are.
And no one should be allowed to play with the puppy
who is not capable of doing any of the above. Not
until she has first learned not to nip and bite people.
"At the very FIRST nip, tap your puppy on his nose with
your index finger, sharply, but not very hard, your face in
his face, and say "NO BITE!" in a firm but not loud voice."
"With your index finger, tap the puppy on her nose firmly,
but not harshly, then, at the very same time, and nose to
nose with her, tell your puppy in a firm but not loud voice,
"NO BITE!"
"At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your
index finger."
BUT NEVER HIT YOUR DOG~!
Swatting a dog on the nose is always the
wrong thing to do.
IMO, the *fastest* way to curb a mouthy puppy's
desire to bite hands (especially if other methods
have failed, because you don't want this habit to
become reinforced by too much success), etc., is
to take advantage of the pup's gag reflex:
Slowly reach over and around the pup's shoulder
(while you're sitting on the floor), coming up to
the pup's mouth from underneath it with your
right hand (that way he can't see your finger or
your hand), and stick your index finger into the
pup's mouth, at the very rear, then down the
pup's throat, and gently place some downward
pressure on the back of the tongue, until he starts
to gag. Use your left arm to hold him close to you,
while you're doing this.
Trust me, it's easier to demonstrate this technique
than to explain it, but it's fail-proof.
He'll quickly put 2 and 2 together. Biting hands = gag.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
-------------------
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
------------------------
From: Tara <taragre...@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:51 GMT
Subject: Re: good dog training books?
I've personally seen their methods (as applied by
them) NOT work on dogs they themselves have bred.
IMO, their methods actually made the underlying problems
*worse*. In three cases, where they both bred and trained
the dogs, they subsequently washed their hands of the dogs
and suggested euthanasia....and then promptly tried to
talk the owners into taking another one of their own pups.
<snip>
Since I have serious issues and doubts about the
practices and ethics of the Monks, I obviously
only support the latter two ;-)
Tara
From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls at me sometimes. When he
growls at me he stares me in
the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?
----------------------
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have
a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to progress to
striking them more sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most
people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually,
the dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."
Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes
koheler look like St. Francis.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL
Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME she LIES abHOWET it?:
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive," dahl.
LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.
"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK"
Makes A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When
You Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up
The Mandible To The Ears And Give A Popping
Sound To The Dog."
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp
Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't
Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still
Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My
Cat," Melanie Lee Chang * mch...@lppi.ucsf.edu
Canine Behavioral Genetics Project
University of California, San Francisco
http://psych.ucsf.edu/K9BehavioralGenetics/
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.
You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.
Knock the shit out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relationship based on mutual respect.
Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete
were pre-Lon-Chaney.
Charlie
-----------------------
> Yeah, he's yours, Jer.
THANK YOU, tommy <{}: ~ ) >
> He's all yours.
So long as Paul follHOWES INSTRUCTIONS
he'll not have to HURT and INTIMIDATE his
dog like HOWE you PREFER, tommy.
> Heh.
Heh, heh <{}: ~ ) >
Here's a couple of tommy's STUDENTS:
"Feisty, Humorous, Brave, Curious And
Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre," And DEAD.
> From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
> Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !
> Date: 1999/01/20
> Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
> and I'll keep you all posted.
> Laura in Oslo
You're quite the dog enthusiast, eh laura?
> The listener,
You didn't WANT to listen to The Puppy Wizard when
HE told you you couldn't PUNISH and INTIMIDATE
your dog or you'd make IT aggressive.
> the observer.
NHOWE you got a DEAD DOG HOWETA it.
> We do work were you sometimes have to observe people
Like laura, MURDERING her dog...
> and take notes.
INDEEDY!
> B. has amazing powers of observation and concentration.
RIGHT...
> Laura and Angel in Oslo
Subject: < BEFORE-- -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER ---> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
> Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
> Date: 02/05/1999
> Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you
insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get
to listen to the box first?)
-----------------
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you
insipid piece of cow dung!" Your "ADVICE"
GOT Robert's and laura's DEAD DOGS DEAD.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Here's lyingdogDUMMY aka tommy soronson
beatin a dog to HOWEsbreak IT to save ITS life:
But FIRST, a little good KOEHLER trainin:
Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking
Backslider.
"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."
"Housebreaking Problems:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment.
Make certain he is equipped with a collar
and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside.
Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
and close observation, you will not have to do
much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling.
To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
and then backslides, the method of correction
differs somewhat.
In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.
The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him
sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.
If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish him again for the same thing.
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.
It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net>
wrote in <message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jm...@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@aol.com
> (DogStar716)
wrote:
>
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >
> >Uh huh :)
>
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh
> huh" a lot.
>
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't
> >>on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved
> >>Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream
> >>otherwise.
> >
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on
> >a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his
> >methods.
>
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you
> that not every trainer who uses a leash is a
> *Koehler* trainer.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
> if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as
> far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
> possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
>
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
>
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining. com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that
> >whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based
> >training:
> >
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
> >in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> >
> >You cannot use PR only.
>
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and
> many other places as well) *claim* that they use
> nothing but R. You know, the PPers.
>
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
>
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as
> ignorant?
>
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
>
> > And if you knew anything about PR BASED
> > training, you would realize that. It's not all
> > cookies and babytalk.
>
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
> Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
> in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
> that even R has its limits.
>
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have
> your head in the sand.
>
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the
> > Koehler-ites.
>
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
>
> They have behaviorism on their side, and
> that's more than enough.
>
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a
> >proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash
> >to control or teach my dog.
>
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but
> it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
> especially since the advent of leash laws.
>
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
> training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
> need of a leash.
>
> That you apparently don't know that, once again
> shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
> Koehler you are.
>
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
> >from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
> >nothing for what I don't like.
>
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good
> enough for you, fine. But it's not good enough for
> many of the rest of us.
>
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
>
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore,
> because you apparently know so damn little about
> Koehler and behavioral principles in general that
> it's hard to have an informed discussion with you.
>
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
> keep denying that those certain harsh methods are
> only for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to
> SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly
> given you direct *quotes* from Koehler's book
> saying just that. It's like you don't even care how
> stupid people think you are, or how devious you
> are, etc.
> That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even
> if you're not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently
> remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net>
wrote in <message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omh...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
> >tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
> (i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some*
> situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it
> incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc.
>
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
> >enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
> >5 minutes of his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after
> careful evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get
> it over with quickly than it is to do it
> incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually only
> invites the need for even more discipline.
>
> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these
> >beatings for housebreaking accidents, chewing/
> >destructive behavior, stealing, trying to get on
> >your bed at night and dog on dog aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> *not* constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be
> looked at in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical
> discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
> every individual dog and situation, we feel
> obligated to emphasize from the outset that
> discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for
> all offenses. We do, however, believe that physical
> and verbal discipline can be an effective technique.
> The best policy if you experience any of the above
> problems is to consult a qualified trainer or
> veterinarian for evaluation of your individual
> situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training
> technique, it should be the proper technique. We
> feel we have developed several methods that depend
> less on violent physical force than timing, a flair
> for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to
> map out these methods, rather than simply skip
> the topic because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want
> to know what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for
> those serious, special occasions when other methods
> have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using physical
> discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores --
> only on those rare occasions when an already
> reliably housebroken dog is (after careful
> evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an
> adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable*
> house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably
> housetrained or the dog was going on a one way trip
> to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate trainer
> that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it took to
> get this dog house-trained and save his life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional
> training, and to poor result, I brought out the big
> guns -- physical and verbal discipline. Whenever the
> dog soiled the house (no, you don't even have to
> catch him in the act), I immediately (but very
> calmly) tossed a leash on his collar, dragged him to
> the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the
> chair, with his nose about two inches away from the
> poop. After a couple of swats on the rump, some
> loud vocalizing, and a wait of about 20 minutes, I'd
> release the dog and then ignore him for a while. I
> had to repeat this process *three* times, I think --
> and the house-soiling miraculously stopped. The dog
> went home to enjoy a long and contented life with
> his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
>
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for
> novices.
>
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the
> detonator to reply via e-mail
HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka handsome gentleman
jack morrison aka joey finnochiarrio aka howie lipschitz
aka DOGMAN you anonymHOWES miserable stinkin
lyin dog murderin coward,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 17:57:54 -0400, elegy
> <e...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote:
> []
> >> But I think that having a show like this reach the
> >> masses, well, that *is* ground-breaking, and it
> >> just might have a positive effect on the folks out
> >> there who might recognize *themselves* in the
> >> folks and families he "trains" on his show.
the ces is a ABUSER. It's on accHOWENT of imbeciles
who ENJOY watchin him ABUSING innocent defenseless
dumb critters that we're MURDERIN innocent defenseless
dumb PEOPLE all over the WHOWEL WILD WORLD
an callin it DEMOCRACY <{): ~ ( >
> >> It surely can't hurt.
No MOORE than Hitler HURT.
> > i don't know.... does it help or hurt when what they
> > take away from the show is "tsst",
> What harm could come from the "tsst"???
Well, the "tsst" has been used predominantely by
ATTACK DOG TRAINERS to aggitate their dogs <{): ~ ) >
> Other trainers have been using similar versions of
> the "tsst" for years.
On accHOWENT of it makes them s
uspiciHOWES and SCARES THEM.
> It's a distraction.
Fartin is a DISTRACTION too, tommy.
> Feel free to come up with your own.
FARTIN is FINE, tommy.
> For example: "psst" "yech" "acch" "ooop" Etc. :)
You mean, ANY intimidating S-HOWEND, tommy?
> > leash pop
the ces likes to jerk an choke dogs.
> What leash pop?
The WON you and your punk thug coward active acute
chronic long term incurable MENTAL CASE pals use, tommy.
> I done see no steeeeeeenkin' leash pops.
Of curse you do, tommy.
You're just LYIN abHOWET IT again:
From The Annals Of
Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory
Subject: To Jerry Howe...how 'bout a response?
1From: Dogman
Date: Sun, Jan 17 1999 12:00 am
Email: dog...@i1.net (Dogman)
> I've seen advice as to how to hit your dog coming from
> them, and lots of other non productive advice.
Where have you ever seen the Monks advocating
hitting a *puppy*????????
What other "non-productive" advice
have you seen in this book?
Be as specific as you can be, eh?
--
Dogman
dog...@i1.net
Dogman's *New* Web Site
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
Dogman's Book Recommendations
http://www.i1.net/~dogman/books.htm
2 From: Jerry Howe
Date: Mon, Jan 18 1999 12:00 am
Email: Jerry Howe <jho...@bellsouth.net>
While I realize that your definition of abuse differs
greatly from mine, I have spent most of the last thirty-
six years retraining dogs brought up and trained by
abusive techniques.
In The Art of Raising a Puppy , copyright 1991, the Monks
of New Skete recommend these disciplinary measures:
1. Scruff shake. (recommended for puppies,
8-12 weeks) Grab scruff of neck, shake firmly,
bark "NO!"
2. Shakedown. Grab sides of throat with both hands,
lifting dog's front feet off floor, stare, shake several
times, and bark "NO!"
3. "Using a firm cuff underneath the chin with your opened
hand...To make this correction effectively, your dog must
be anchored in a sitting position with your left hand
holding onto his collar. As you make eye contact with your
dog, cuff the underside of his mouth with your opened right
hand, rapping him sharply several times, as you say NO!"
(recommended for 5-6 month old puppies)
4. Stick finger down throat to stop mouthing or squeeze and
shake muzzle hard enough to elicit a whine, and bark "NO!"
5. To stop jumping, grab front paws of jumping pup, and
force him to remain in that position long enough to become
uncomfortable.
6. Leash Pop with choke collar (Also popularized as the Margolis Jerk)
Let me start by calling attention to the recent notoriety of
shaken baby syndrome. Although dogs have a loose scruff,
the brain damage can result just the same, and disk damage
may occur.
The ubiquitous leash pop is my number one gripe.
It is recommended and used by almost everyone.
The sharp corrections on leash continue throughout
the life of the dog. It is recommended they be increased
in severity and frequency as the dog becomes more
resistant and the trainer thinks the dog knows what is
expected of him but the dog refuses to do it. (Dogs
don't do things out of spite!)
Nerve damage can result from leash corrections.
Makes me nauseous to hear people say that dogs
don't feel pain the same way we do.
As a society we don't condone treating our children
or employees that way. What makes abuse O.K. for
animals? Force, abuse, and punishment do not have
any place in a learning environment!
Most of the mistakes our dogs make are not even
understood by the dog to be mistakes. The punishment
is not understood, and behavior problems result from
the abuse.
If you would like to learn non abusive techniques,
I recommend the Wits' End Dog Training Method.
It is being offered as a not for profit educational
organization to enhance the lives of dogs and dog
lovers. Download free at: http://www.doggydoright.com
Now it's time to recognize the responsibility of dog
owners to do right by their dogs. I've seen the pain
that families go through when they think they have
to give up or kill their pets even after this kind training.
In love and light,
Jerry Howe,
Wits' End Dog Training
Witsend...@aol.com
Dogman wrote:
> > I've seen advice as to how to hit your dog coming
> > from them, and lots of other non productive advice.
>
> Where have you ever seen the Monks advocating
> hitting a *puppy*???????? What other "non-productive"
> advice have you seen in this book?
> Be as specific as you can be, eh?
> --
> Dogman
> dog...@i1.net
> Dogman's *New* Web Site
> http://www.i1.net/~dogman
> Dogman's Book Recommendations
> http://www.i1.net/~dogman/books.htm
3 From: Dogman
Date: Mon, Jan 18 1999 12:00 am
Email: dog...@i1.net (Dogman)
Upon my return to the Cuckoo's Nest, Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:09:42 GMT,
Jerry Howe <jho...@bellsouth.net> says:
> While I realize that your definition of abuse differs greatly
> from mine, I have spent most of the last thirty-six years
> retraining dogs brought up and trained by abusive
> techniques.
And I've spent almost four decades *rehabilitating*
dogs that were "trained" by those "positive only"
techniques that *you* apparently espouse -- attempting
to save their lives from the gallows.
But I think I see now where you're coming from.
Geeeeeeez.
You're either a shyster -- or a PETA puke.
> In The Art of Raising a Puppy , copyright 1991,
> the Monks of New Skete recommend these disciplinary
> measures:
> 1. Scruff shake. (recommended for puppies, 8-12
> weeks) Grab scruff of neck, shake firmly, bark "NO!"
> 2. Shakedown. Grab sides of throat with both hands,
> lifting dog's front feet off floor, stare, shake several
> times, and bark "NO!"
> 3. "Using a firm cuff underneath the chin with your
> opened hand... To make this correction effectively,
> your dog must be anchored in a sitting position with
> your left hand holding onto his collar.
>
> As you make eye contact with your dog, cuff the
> underside of his mouth with your opened right
> hand, rapping him sharply several times, as you
> say NO!" (recommended for 5-6 month old puppies)
>
> 4. Stick finger down throat to stop mouthing or
> squeeze and shake muzzle hard enough to elicit
> a whine, and bark "NO!"
> 5. To stop jumping, grab front paws of jumping
> pup, and force him to remain in that position long
> enough to become uncomfortable.
> 6. Leash Pop with choke collar (Also popularized
> as the Margolis Jerk)
Yes, and they're all EFFECTIVE and PRODUCTIVE techniques!
And TIME-PROVEN!
> Let me start by calling attention to the recent notoriety
> of shaken baby syndrome. Although dogs have a loose
> scruff, the brain damage can result just the same, and
> disk damage may occur.
Phoooey! Comparing SBS to a scruff shake is about
the most ludicrous thing you've said here yet, Howe,
and that's among a LOT of ludicrous stuff you've said here.
I might just as well accuse your "little black box" of
emitting DANGEROUS and possibly even DEADLY
*electro-magnetic* waves capable of causing cancers
and severe brain damage!
But then again -- maybe it *does,* eh?
> The ubiquitous leash pop is my number one gripe.
Oh please...a freakin' leash pop gets your
Jockey's to ride up on you, does it?
I thought so...you're a huckster selling little
black boxes. Period.
> It is recommended and used by almost everyone.
That's because it's EFFECTIVE and produces some of
the HAPPIEST and best-trained dogs in the world!
It's also because not every "trainer" is a huckster
selling little black boxes -- like you seem to be, Howe.
> The sharp corrections on leash continue throughout
> the life of the dog.
No, they don't, not if they're used *correctly* at the onset.
Sharp corrections are seldom necessary later on if they're
used correctly and timely early in the dog's training.
You'd know that if you weren't so busy selling little black
boxes and quick fixes to ignorant and *gullible* dog owners.
> It is recommended they be increased in
> severity and frequency as the dog becomes
> more resistant
No! It's not! Here you're just using a straw
man to argue with.
Dog's don't become "resistant" to collar pops
when they're used *correctly* and *timely.*
Maybe you should actually watch it being done
correctly before you attack something you obviously
know absolutely nothing about?
> and the trainer thinks the dog knows what is
> expected of him but the dog refuses to do it.
> (Dogs don't do things out of spite!)
Dogs refuse to do things when they don't
think they have to do them!
When there's no CONSEQUENCES.
> Nerve damage can result from leash corrections.
> Makes me nauseous to hear people say that dogs
> don't feel pain the same way we do.
OIC...you're one of those AR whackos, too, are you?
Well, that's pretty much what I expected you to be
from reading just a few of your posts.
The chances of any "nerve damage" being done to
a dog from the correct application of collar pops
are much less than the chances of *you* ever being
hit by a freakin' meteorite!
In fact, the chances are NIL, NADA, ZILCH, ZERO,
but that won't prevent you from trying to scare people
away from using a time-proven and very effective
technique in a disingenuous attempt to sell more
little black boxes to GULLIBLE dog owners.
In fact, it's people just like you, Howe, who are
responsible for the vast majority of those 1.5 MILLION
dogs who have to be KILLED each year in America
because they've become incorrigible.
> As a society we don't condone treating our children
> or employees that way. What makes abuse O.K. for
> animals? Force, abuse, and punishment do not have
> any place in a learning environment!
What drivel!
Comparing children and dogs is one of
the first signs of a PETA puke.
In the very words of Ingrid Newkirk, PETA founder:
"A man is a dog is a giraffe is a monkey is a cat..."
or something to that effect.
In other words, there is no difference between
human beings and any other animals.
Well, when the day comes that I see a Pomeranian
attending Harvard, or a human baby riding around
on the back of a macaque, maybe I'll agree myself...
but until that day comes, I think you're all a bunch
of fruitcakes.
Fruitcakes who inadvertently (I think) espouse
theories that when adopted by authorities fill
our prisons with undisciplined repeat offenders
and our shelters with undisciplined dogs.
> Most of the mistakes our dogs make are not even
> understood by the dog to be mistakes.
That's the only thing you've said yet that's true.
What was it...a lucky guess?
But what does that have to do with the Monks??????????
> The punishment is not understood, and behavior
> problems result from the abuse.
Again, that's simply bull ca ca.
Real punishment should always, of course, be used as
a last resort, and then only EFFECTIVE punishment.
Nine out of ten serious behavior problems that I've ever
seen were the direct result of those "positive only" methods
that you espouse!
Then what happens? The owners end up taking
the dog to the POUND for EUTHANASIA!
How that for "abuse," Howe?
That's REAL abuse.
> If you would like to learn non abusive techniques, I
> recommend the Wits' End Dog Training Method. It is
> being offered as a not for profit educational organization
> to enhance the lives of dogs and dog lovers. Download
> free at: http://www.doggydoright.com
Translation:
Yes, folks, if you would like to be taken to the
cleaners by GIMMICKS, LITTLE BLACK BOXES,
MUMBO JUMBO and unmitigated BULL CA CA,
this is probably a pretty good site to visit.
Be CAREFUL what you download from this guy,
though, because computer VIRUSES can be
transmitted to your computer using this method!
Yo! Howe, how 'bout some information on your
"not-for-profit" "educational organization," eh?
Are you a 501 organization?
What is your federal tax ID number?
Where can I find copies of your organization's
financial statements?
When did you file for this exemption?
What are the SALARIES of the principals?
What are your EXPENSES?
What accounting firm does your books?
What is BMS Productions, 201 E. Southern
Ave., Suite 209, Tempe, Arizona?
Does "Biosound Scientific" have any r
elationship with Biosound, Inc?
> Now it's time to recognize the responsibility of dog owners
> to do right by their dogs. I've seen the pain that families
> go through when they think they have to give up or kill
> their pets even after this kind training.
Shysters and hucksters who make claims like:
"Little black box solves all dogs behavior problems!"
are in the *same* category (and maybe will even end
up in the same jail cell) as Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, folks!
If statements like the below don't make you
HIGHLY suspicious, nothing ever will:
"Once again, we do not seek the endorsement of our
technology through any other researchers efforts.
Nor do we care to use any other researchers
documentation to substantiate BIOSOUND
Scientifics' technology or claims. As stated earlier,
BIOSOUND Scientific was created by Elves,with
the aid of expert advice from a dog trainer."
[Screw your "elves," Howe.]
In other words, just take *our* word for it -- okay?
Just because no one else can duplicate our results,
well, that alone doesn't mean that we're FAKIRS
(of course, we're FAKIRS!).
Stay away from this guy!
At least until he comes clean...
Geeeeeeeeeeez.
--
Dogman
dog...@i1.net
Dogman's *New* Web Site
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
Dogman's Book Recommendations
http://www.i1.net/~dogman/books.htm
-------------------------
So tommy, HURTIN and INTIMIDATIN innocent
defenseless dumb critters desensitizes innocent
defenseless dumb gullible human critters into hurtin
intimidatin and murderin other innocent defenseless
dumb human critters.
> > and alpha roll?
> Yes, (as I've said previously) that could get them
> in some trouble.
Naaah? DO TELL?: "Yes, and they're all EFFECTIVE
and PRODUCTIVE techniques! And TIME-PROVEN!"
> However, his show is *littered* with warnings not to]
> try his methods without the supervision and assistance
> of a professional trainer.
Oh, THAT'S on accHOWENT of dogs
NORMALLY ATTACK their abusers, tommy.
> Again, I think the positives far outweigh the negatives.
INDEEDY. And THAT'S HOWE COME you
can't post here abHOWETS nodoGdameneDMOORE.
REMEMBER tommy?
> YMMV.
All depends, if you're WALKIN The WALK, eh tommy?
> --
> - Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove
> the detonator to reply via e-mail
Here, permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to
give you a hand with that little pin, tommy...
There. That's FIXED. ENJOY!
NHOWE START WALKIN THE WALK, tommy<{}: ~ ) >
.
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey
And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
pfoley
"Paula" <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote in message
news:Xns9962F20838827mm...@199.45.49.11...
It could be Muttley,being the type of dog he is, is on guard and keeping an
eye on his surroundings. He might be working. My Rottweiler, Susie, was
always on guard. When we walked on leash, if we approached any intersection
on our walk, she would stop dead in her tracks and then very methodically
look down each path first before proceeding forward. She was constantly on
the lookout and on guard for anything suspicious. She was always working;
always thinking. I guess she felt that was her job.
Lynne
wrote:
> I'm having a really hard time with this. I can imagine having to do
> attention exercises to get a dog to pay attention to you instead of
> the squirrel that is running across his path or to pay attention to
> you when you first get him or something. But am I missing something
> here when I don't get why you would have such trouble getting a dog to
> even look at you when it has lived with you and only you for months?
> My dogs are constantly checking out what I am doing and trying to get
> my attention, it seems to me. I don't walk around with treats in my
> hands or pockets. I sometimes wish they would pay less attention to
> me, like when they think I need company in the bathroom. I just don't
> get a situation where the dog seems to never be looking toward the
> owner, always looking away.
I think the word you are looking for is neglect. I've seen Paul post that
Muttley never demands anything of him. That tells me Muttley doesn't get
much of anything and has no expectations of Paul, no real relationship.
I'm sure his basic shelter and nutritional needs are being met, but beyond
that, I really wonder...
Maybe this little experient with JH's methods will serve to help them bond
to each other. I sure hope so, for Muttley's sake.
--
Lynne
Marcel Beaudoin
news:Xns99635F2351EDDHD...@216.196.97.142:
> I think the word you are looking for is neglect. I've seen Paul post
> that Muttley never demands anything of him. That tells me Muttley
> doesn't get much of anything and has no expectations of Paul, no real
> relationship. I'm sure his basic shelter and nutritional needs are
> being met, but beyond that, I really wonder...
>
> Maybe this little experient with JH's methods will serve to help them
> bond to each other. I sure hope so, for Muttley's sake.
I don't think Paul is neglecting Muttley. There are just some dogs that
don't care about the humans in their life. They don't hate them, they know
that the human(s) provide food and water, they just don't really care
otherwise.
--
Marcel Beaudoin and Moogli
Lynne
<marcel....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think Paul is neglecting Muttley. There are just some dogs
> that don't care about the humans in their life. They don't hate them,
> they know that the human(s) provide food and water, they just don't
> really care otherwise.
Fair enough, but I do still think Paul has been neglecting Muttley, based
on his posts here and on the AOL CBB. Maybe the tide has turned, though,
since he's actually actively doing something with him now. Even if his
motives are to discredit certain types of training and/or rile people up
(I'm not clear on that), I still think that having focused time with
Muttley is a Very Good Thing.
--
Lynne
Melinda Shore
Rocky <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>Some dogs simply seem to have a personal agenda which is not
>easily rescheduled.
There are so many reasons why that kind of detachment can
happen. I only had a few years with Duncan but I came to
believe that he was a doggie version of autistic. Slick
wasn't at all people-oriented when he arrived but that
turned out to be a socialization issue and was easy to fix.
It varies a lot.
But, given that Paul already has a history of writing off
behavior problems as having something to do with breed and
therefore basically giving up on them, I'd hate to see him
do it again with Muttley's poor human bond (somebody
suggested that was the issue here). It may or may not be
the root of the problem (it strikes me as less likely rather
than more likely) but the right thing to do is to work to
see to what extent it can be improved. Giving Paul yet more
excuses to give up seems like a bad idea to me.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
Melinda Shore
elegy <el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote:
>this is my biggest problem and my biggest frustration with luce. she
>has this impressive ability to just tune everything else out, me
>included. there are times when she's extremely attentive, but i can't
>always make that happen.
The single biggest helpful thing I've found is to move, or
to do something differently. We get pretty deeply into our
ruts and do things the same way over and over and over
again, and I've found that just standing someplace
different, or standing differently, or using a different
tone of voice, or just being surprising will make you a lot
more interesting to your dog.
Also, under the right circumstances (this can backfire) dogs
can be a lot like boyfriends/girlfriends, in that you're
never quite as interesting as you are when you're walking
away.
Marcel Beaudoin
news:1evn83htjjqrf5b7d...@4ax.com:
> On 4 Jul 2007 19:54:28 GMT, Rocky <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>
>>sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) said in
>>rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>>
>>>>Some dogs simply seem to have a personal agenda which is
>>>>not easily rescheduled.
>>>
>>> Giving Paul
>>> yet more excuses to give up seems like a bad idea to me.
>>
>>It's not all about Paul. I also wrote that it's fixable and
>>that I'd fix it if it were my dog.
>
> how would you go about fixing it?
Note that I am not a trainer, but here is how I would do it. Make it so
that *every* time the dog looks at you, something good happens. Most dogs
would eventually figure out that "from that person, good things
happen!!" and start paying attention.
> ---
> http://shattering.org
> x-no-archive:yes in headers
Just a note, your sig is wrong. It should be dash dash space <enter>, not
dash dash dash.
sighthounds & siberians
>There are so many reasons why that kind of detachment can
>happen. I only had a few years with Duncan but I came to
>believe that he was a doggie version of autistic. Slick
>wasn't at all people-oriented when he arrived but that
>turned out to be a socialization issue and was easy to fix.
>It varies a lot.
It does. Muttley certainly isn't the only "street dog" around here;
we've had several, and none had any problem bonding with humans. Gene
the greyhound was pretty uninterested in people when we got him, and
that, too, was lack of socialization. Ditto Trissa. The solution to
that problem is to work on building a bond, not say "oh, well, he's a
street dog" or "we don't demand much from each other" to excuse it.
>But, given that Paul already has a history of writing off
>behavior problems as having something to do with breed and
>therefore basically giving up on them, I'd hate to see him
>do it again with Muttley's poor human bond (somebody
>suggested that was the issue here). It may or may not be
>the root of the problem (it strikes me as less likely rather
>than more likely) but the right thing to do is to work to
>see to what extent it can be improved. Giving Paul yet more
>excuses to give up seems like a bad idea to me.
I agree, and would add that this has nothing to do with Muttley not
regarding Paul as his personal lord and savior. I most certainly
don't want dogs that look at me that way - - one of the reasons I love
Siberians is their irreverence - it's not a breed that needs human
intervention in order to think of something to do - - and I don't
think most other folks here do either.
Mustang Sally
Paula
news:ai9o839t550ideu34...@4ax.com:
> It does. Muttley certainly isn't the only "street dog" around here;
> we've had several, and none had any problem bonding with humans. Gene
> the greyhound was pretty uninterested in people when we got him, and
> that, too, was lack of socialization. Ditto Trissa. The solution to
> that problem is to work on building a bond, not say "oh, well, he's a
> street dog" or "we don't demand much from each other" to excuse it.
That makes sense. Diva not only didn't fawn on people, she didn't want
anything to do with them. She had certainly come from a place of only
being able to rely on herself from the wounds and the behavioral issues.
She also would not pay any attention to me if there was something much
more interesting going on even after she bonded with me. She was
obssessed by lights. If she was trying to get the evil light reflection
off the ceiling or wall, the rest of the house could come crashing down
and she wouldn't notice unless the light spot also moved. She was also
very protective, as have been several of my dogs, and patrolling was
always on her mind. But she didn't blow me off when I said her name even
when on patrol.
I wouldn't find it so odd if it were that there was mayhem of some kind
going on or if Muttley hadn't been with Paul that long. I don't even
expect rapt attention. But what Paul described struck me as very odd.
Definitely something I would be working on diligently if it were my dog.
I'm glad he is working on it.
>
>>But, given that Paul already has a history of writing off
>>behavior problems as having something to do with breed and
>>therefore basically giving up on them, I'd hate to see him
>>do it again with Muttley's poor human bond (somebody
>>suggested that was the issue here). It may or may not be
>>the root of the problem (it strikes me as less likely rather
>>than more likely) but the right thing to do is to work to
>>see to what extent it can be improved. Giving Paul yet more
>>excuses to give up seems like a bad idea to me.
>
> I agree, and would add that this has nothing to do with Muttley not
> regarding Paul as his personal lord and savior. I most certainly
> don't want dogs that look at me that way - - one of the reasons I love
> Siberians is their irreverence - it's not a breed that needs human
> intervention in order to think of something to do - - and I don't
> think most other folks here do either.
I actually don't care for velcro dogs. I don't want to be a dog's
personal lord and savior and I don't want them hanging all over me.
Sammie tends to be a little too much that way when the girls are at their
dad's and I find myself telling him to go play with Molly or something.
So I'm not talking about hanging on my every word.
Actually, that might be why my dogs pay attention. I am always doing a
thousand things at once. If they don't pay attention when I'm going to
do something for them, the moment will pass. I have noticed that if I
call one dog, they all come. I don't actually have to call one of them,
even. If I am sweet talking with one, they all come running. I guess
they have figured out that they'd better keep an ear out for when I have
the time and hands to give out lovies and treats and spankings (even
Sammie insists on having his backside drummed because I do it to the big
dogs when I walk by them and they like it, so...).
Paula
Paul E. Schoen
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri9963953D9418au...@rocky-dog.com...
> elegy <el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>> how would you go about fixing it?
>
> start rewarding what the dog offered. This is what I think Paul
> tried to describe earlier, sans the part about patience.
>
> If the dog offered up nothing, then I'd do what Melinda
> mentioned - make myself a little bit more interesting than
> anything else in order to elicit the behaviour.
>
Muttley enjoys my attention, and sometimes asks for it when I have been
busy on the computer or watching TV or something. Sometimes it is because
he needs to go out, or needs water or food. When he is relaxed and not
occupied (as in chewing a bone), he responds well to my calling his name,
or just moving a bit. When he is doing something he wants to do, like
walking, he focuses on that and ignores me and any attempted leash or
collar corrections. But when the more interesting parts of the walk are
done with, and we are walking back, he is more attentive. Usually he will
sit and stay on cue, such as when I need to untangle the leash. He also
understands when I say "far enough" at a corner of the perimeter, and he
will usually slow down and turn around.
I can also get his focused attention when we are going out the door, and I
tell him to sit and wait. He looks up at me and watches for any sign that I
will be saying "OK" or "Go" or anything else but "Stay" or "Wait".
Sometimes he adopts this position without command, and other times he
insists on barging out. I achieved this bit of obedience using what are
probably old Koehler methods. I simply made a concerted effort to "not
allow" the unwanted behavior, and I would actually drag him back inside,
close the door, and even unbuckle the leash and ignore him a while. He
seemed to "get it" in about an hour, and it was even better after a few
days of practice.
I spoke today with an old friend who once owned a half-Wolf, Cheyenne. I
mentioned some of Muttley's traits, as well as some described as those of
Anatolians, and he laughed and said it sounded a lot like Cheyenne. I
mentioned the dog that would fetch a thrown stick once, but then would not
if thrown again, but instead look as if saying, "Look, I brought it back
once, and you threw it away. You get the damn thing if you want it again!"
I don't think Muttley is a playful dog, although he enjoys occasional
rollovers and belly rubs and cuddling. He does seem to adopt a watchful
guardian attitude when I have him stop, and pretty much only when I resume
walking does he briefly look at me and then continue.
My feeling is that he is just satisfied knowing that he is provided food,
shelter, and care, but he is not needy or outgoing. He has demonstrated
that he cares about me by showing immediate concern when I sneeze, and when
I have slipped and fallen on my butt, he has immediately come to my side
and looked at me until I got up.
"My" other rescue dog "Lucky" is much different. She is playful and
affectionate, and very responsive. Running off-leash, she gallops gleefully
a short distance, looks back occasionally, and comes when called. She
mostly ignores nearby deer, and usually plays nicely with cats, while
Muttley considers both as prey. As much as I love Muttley, I must say I
have more fun with Lucky, and I think I could train her to win an obedience
medal. Her new "owners" seem to be kind, but disinterested in training and
not very affectionate. I was able to coax her into her new crate with just
a few pieces of kibble, strategically dropped onto the pan, or offered
through the bars for her to take directly. I would love to have her as well
as Muttley. He may never be a well-trained dog, but hopefully adequately
managed. Lucky seems to be a "soft" dog, eager to please, and highly
motivated by human contact. I love them both.
Paul and Muttley
sighthounds & siberians
wrote:
>That makes sense. Diva not only didn't fawn on people, she didn't want
>anything to do with them. She had certainly come from a place of only
>being able to rely on herself from the wounds and the behavioral issues.
>She also would not pay any attention to me if there was something much
>more interesting going on even after she bonded with me. She was
>obssessed by lights. If she was trying to get the evil light reflection
>off the ceiling or wall, the rest of the house could come crashing down
>and she wouldn't notice unless the light spot also moved. She was also
>very protective, as have been several of my dogs, and patrolling was
>always on her mind. But she didn't blow me off when I said her name even
>when on patrol.
I don't think I've ever had a dog that didn't respond to his/her name.
>I wouldn't find it so odd if it were that there was mayhem of some kind
>going on or if Muttley hadn't been with Paul that long. I don't even
>expect rapt attention. But what Paul described struck me as very odd.
>Definitely something I would be working on diligently if it were my dog.
>I'm glad he is working on it.
I hope he is working on it. I do think it's odd, particularly in a
home with one human and one dog.
>Actually, that might be why my dogs pay attention. I am always doing a
>thousand things at once. If they don't pay attention when I'm going to
>do something for them, the moment will pass. I have noticed that if I
>call one dog, they all come. I don't actually have to call one of them,
>even. If I am sweet talking with one, they all come running. I guess
>they have figured out that they'd better keep an ear out for when I have
>the time and hands to give out lovies and treats and spankings (even
>Sammie insists on having his backside drummed because I do it to the big
>dogs when I walk by them and they like it, so...).
That happens here, too, although our house isn't anywhere as busy as
yours. doG forbid one dog should get something they don't all get.
Mustang Sally
diddy
wildhack <mon...@wildhack.com.invalid> whittled the following words:
> On 2007-07-05 09:30:09 -0400, sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
said:
>
>> I don't think I've ever had a dog that didn't respond to his/her name.
>
> One of the foundations of puppy training that we learned was doing
> attention exercises. We've done this with Beanie (or whatever name we
> use with her) because she's not used to learning. So one of the first
> steps was getting her used to looking at us to get a command - or treat
> - or whatever. She liked this part of training very much.
>
> Many of the people who post here have actually worked with their dogs
> and have trained them to one extent or another. This is not something
> Paul has done. While he thinks he and Muttley communicate, clearly they
> don't. Attention exercises are a pretty painless place to start.
>
>
I agree.
Paul ... simple.. easy.. Since you seem to have abandoned the Jerry
Experience,
Say Muttley's name.
If he looks at you, and responds.. CLICK/Treat with something he likes..
It's that simple.
You have to get his attention and focus in order to train him.
sighthounds & siberians
<mon...@wildhack.com.invalid> wrote:
>On 2007-07-05 09:30:09 -0400, sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> said:
>
>> I don't think I've ever had a dog that didn't respond to his/her name.
>
>One of the foundations of puppy training that we learned was doing
>attention exercises. We've done this with Beanie (or whatever name we
>use with her) because she's not used to learning. So one of the first
>steps was getting her used to looking at us to get a command - or treat
>- or whatever. She liked this part of training very much.
Attention really is the foundation of training, period. I have not
done that with Gene/Stan, but they still will look at us when they
hear their names. That's after only 6 months in this house, and they
were very unsocialized dogs, and with several other dogs in the house
and all sorts of things going on with canine illnesses and deaths,
human illnesses and daily life. So if we can do it practically
accidentally, Paul can do it intentionally.
>Many of the people who post here have actually worked with their dogs
>and have trained them to one extent or another. This is not something
>Paul has done. While he thinks he and Muttley communicate, clearly they
>don't. Attention exercises are a pretty painless place to start.
This is true. "We don't demand much of each other" keeps going
through my mind.
Mustang Sally
Janet Boss
sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> wrote:
>
> This is true. "We don't demand much of each other" keeps going
> through my mind.
Sad, isn't it?
I had a young couple start class a few years ago, with a toy mixed
breed. They e-mailed before week 3 (dogs are there from week 2 on) and
said they didn't want a refund or anything, but they found that they
didn't feel right asking anything of the dog. Huh? What did they think
obedience class meant?
I ask a lot in some ways and very little in others. They rely on me for
basic care, but also to be their leader, their partner in activities,
and their companion. I ask the second two things of them. If I don't
provide the leadership, it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Suja
"elegy" <el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote in message:
> she still ignores me. maybe i'm just not being weird enough.
IME, depending on the dog and the circumstances, there is really nothing you
can do to make yourself more interesting than whatever is out there. Khan
started off with everything else but the human being interesting to him, and
we've worked up to the point where specific humans trump most things. He
still has specific triggers that override the human, but those are far fewer
than they used to be. It's a matter of being more stubborn than they are,
and working away at it.
Suja
diddy
<ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> whittled the following words:
>> This is true. "We don't demand much of each other" keeps going
>> through my mind.
>
> Sad, isn't it?
Paul lives in a world where he seems to be seeking the perfect woman, the
perfect life, and this fits in with his conception of things.
Until he realises that training imposes some sort of expectations of the
other individual, he will realize that training and the above statement are
oxymorons. They cannot exist in the same relationship.
He has to be willing to change that concept if the training of Muttley is
to continue. Unless he's willing to change that ideology.. training Muttley
is not going to happen. It's his choice. No reason to beat him up over it.
Many Dogs (flick)
news:Xns9963747...@216.196.97.142...
>
> Considering Muttley's beginnings as a street dog, He never developed the
> human relation "Need" that we develop in our own dogs. Muttley was
> pretty much self reliant. And I think pfoley is on to something when it
> was mentioned it's a part of the guardian type breeds to listen with
> their ears, but watch as a guardian with their eyes AKA multitasking.
> I don't consider this either surprising, or strange considering Muttley's
> breed background and his lack of early human conditioning. I think people
> are looking for a place to find fault. Lord knows there are certainly
> things going on here worth critiqueing but there is no reason to make
> mountains out of mole hills, and I don't consider Muttley's not bowing
> down to Paul as his personal Lord and Savior worshiping his every breath
> as surprising or even something to be critical of.
Well said. I absolutely agree with this.
flick 100785
sighthounds & siberians
<mon...@wildhack.com.invalid> wrote:
>On 2007-07-05 11:20:29 -0400, sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> said:
>
>> Attention really is the foundation of training, period.
>
>Mustang Sally-
>
>I really didn't mean to pick apart your post or your success with
>training dogs or single you out. You just gave me a clear jumping off
>point.
I didn't take your post that way at all, and if my response sounded as
though I did, it was entirely unintentional.
>We've all talked about the value of attention exercises here and I was
>mildly taken aback by the responders who seemed to denigrate them. I
>agree that most people do them unintentionally - even reflexively. But
>it's obvious that this is new territory for Paul and Muttley.
Unfortunately, most things are new territory for Paul and Muttley, and
I hope Paul starts exploring new territory soon and keeps at it.
Mustang Sally
Melinda Shore
>I hope Paul starts exploring new territory soon and keeps at it.
I'm not sure how much of an issue that actually is - he
keeps flitting from "territory" to territory without
lighting anywhere. I guess that's what you're alluding to
with "exploring."
But really, there are so many pieces to the process -
knowledge, patience, attentiveness, self-discipline and
self-awareness, etc. You can probably drop the ball on one
or a few of them and still be okay, but there are limits.
sighthounds & siberians
<ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>> This is true. "We don't demand much of each other" keeps going
>> through my mind.
>
>Sad, isn't it?
It is. I certainly don't want dogs that won't make a move without my
telling them to (not much chance of that with my breeds anyway!), but
I can't imagine living with a dog like two ships passing in the night.
>I had a young couple start class a few years ago, with a toy mixed
>breed. They e-mailed before week 3 (dogs are there from week 2 on) and
>said they didn't want a refund or anything, but they found that they
>didn't feel right asking anything of the dog. Huh? What did they think
>obedience class meant?
Heh. Good question; did you ask them that? Unfortunately, though,
there are an awful lot of people out there who apparently don't feel
right asking anything of their dogs.
>I ask a lot in some ways and very little in others. They rely on me for
>basic care, but also to be their leader, their partner in activities,
>and their companion. I ask the second two things of them. If I don't
>provide the leadership, it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
Certainly, but as you know, a whole lot of people don't understand the
concept of leadership when it comes to dogs.
Mustang Sally
the.longest.use...@gmail.com
wrote:
> "diddy" <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
I don't care what he does with his dog. I have a problem when he
starts posting advice to people like he actually solved his problems
with his dog. Ignoring them does not equal a solution.
Nick
diddy
siberians <x...@ncweb.com> whittled the following words:
> Certainly, but as you know, a whole lot of people don't understand the
> concept of leadership when it comes to dogs.
>
> Mustang Sally
>
And this becomes problematic, as Paul seems to think that a mutual anarchy
is a good thing. You do your thing/I do mine sort of relationship. But as
soon as he starts imposing his will AKA TRAINING.. the whole thing falls
apart.
What he does not recognise that Muttley is also imposing his will. Equality
really does not exist.
Shelly
> I don't care what he does with his dog. I have a problem when he
> starts posting advice to people like he actually solved his problems
> with his dog. Ignoring them does not equal a solution.
His "advice" is more like a lengthy "Hey, look at me-me-me"
advertisement. I suspect it is also motivated by his need to blame
other people and try to make them look bad.
--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
diddy
sidh.net> whittled the following words:
I suspect it is also motivated by his need to blame
> other people and try to make them look bad.
>
Ahh .. He fits right in here then!
Shelly
If anyone here has made a habit of blaming others for their dogs'
training (or lack thereof), I have missed it.
Janet Boss
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>
> If anyone here has made a habit of blaming others for their dogs'
> training (or lack thereof), I have missed it.
I agree - I haven't seen anyone other than Paul do that.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
the.longest.use...@gmail.com
> diddy wrote:
> > in threadnews:f6j6n2$fet$5...@registered.motzarella.org:Shelly <shelly@cat-
It is everyone's fault my dog is so well trained. I hold you all
personally responsible, I expect repayment. I liked it when he was a
pain in my neck.
Sorry, just had to make the smart ass remark with how you worded it.
Nick
Suja
"Shelly" <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote in message:
>
> If anyone here has made a habit of blaming others for their dogs'
> training (or lack thereof), I have missed it.
I don't know if I've done it here, or if I've done it here sufficiently for
it to stick in anyone's mind, but it is *clearly* a certain other person's
fault that my dogs have the bad habits they have. *I* don't feed them off
my plate, and *I* sure as hell don't use commands I can't enforce.
Not to mention, I don't decide to teach new stuff to the dogs by talking in
complete sentences, but S-L-O-W-L-Y and LOUDLY, 'cuz clearly, the dogs
understand English, just not if you speak it fast or softly. I will admit
that there is a certain entertainment value to watching this sort of
"training" going on.
Suja
Shelly
> Sorry, just had to make the smart ass remark with how you worded it.
My words were carefully chosen. I'm sure Janet could explain it to
you, if you misunderstood my meaning.
Shelly
> I don't know if I've done it here, or if I've done it here sufficiently for
> it to stick in anyone's mind, but it is *clearly* a certain other person's
> fault that my dogs have the bad habits they have. *I* don't feed them off
> my plate, and *I* sure as hell don't use commands I can't enforce.
This is just one reason why I refuse to share my home with other
human beings. There would be killeratings, I fear, if I did.
> Not to mention, I don't decide to teach new stuff to the dogs by talking in
> complete sentences, but S-L-O-W-L-Y and LOUDLY, 'cuz clearly, the dogs
> understand English, just not if you speak it fast or softly.
I admit to doing nearly the same thing. Howsomever, I do not
actually expect the dog to understand. See below.
> I will admit
> that there is a certain entertainment value to watching this sort of
> "training" going on.
Clearly, it's performance art, not training.
diddy
<she...@cat-sidh.net> whittled the following words:
>
>> Not to mention, I don't decide to teach new stuff to the dogs by
>> talking in complete sentences, but S-L-O-W-L-Y and LOUDLY, 'cuz
>> clearly, the dogs understand English, just not if you speak it fast
>> or softly.
>
> I admit to doing nearly the same thing. Howsomever, I do not
> actually expect the dog to understand. See below.
>
>
I find if I am speaking loudly to my dog, he will not pay as much
attention to me as when I speak softly.
When I was at a border patrol training facility last January, I was
watching some handlers training their dogs with little result. They were
yelling at their dogs. I asked one why she was yelling at her dog. She
said so her dog would hear her. She was trying to intimidate her dog into
compliance.
I asked to handle the dog. I softly gave the dog the command, and the dog
complied immediately. I handed the dog back, and told the handler that
the dog's hearing was fine.
Perhaps the dog obeyed because the handler switch got his attention. In
fact, this is probably true. But the point is, the negativism
inadvertantly implied by ordering loud did nothing to to help the handler
achieve compliance. The handler needed to attain the dog's attention. In
the heat of pandemonium, loud commands to a dog may be necessary,
considering the work that the dog was being prepared for. But if you give
loud commands as a matter of course, loud commands lose their attention
getting properties as the dog becomes immune.
I know my dogs pay closer attention if I speak softly.
Shelly
> I find if I am speaking loudly to my dog, he will not pay as much
> attention to me as when I speak softly.
I think you misunderstand my point. Making a big production out of
explaining things in minute detail is entertaining to both me and, I
dare say, my dog. But then, we both have sort of odd senses of humor.
> I asked to handle the dog. I softly gave the dog the command, and the dog
> complied immediately. I handed the dog back, and told the handler that
> the dog's hearing was fine.
Harriet and I play the whisper game. How quietly can I give a
command without it being unintelligible to her? Pretty darned
quietly, it turns out. We also play the (happy!) shouting game,
because I think it is helpful for her to understand that loud voices
are not something she needs to be afraid of.
the.longest.use...@gmail.com
> the.longest.username.availa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Sorry, just had to make the smart ass remark with how you worded it.
>
> My words were carefully chosen. I'm sure Janet could explain it to
> you, if you misunderstood my meaning.
>
> --
No I caught it, it just left the door open for a smart ass statement,
and I find it hard to resist those.
Nick
Paula
news:harp83hab3ldummt4...@4ax.com:
> That happens here, too, although our house isn't anywhere as busy as
> yours. doG forbid one dog should get something they don't all get.
I'm good at getting the girls to like being abused, too. My brother
couldn't believe when we went to visit when Anna was a toddler. When he
would say he was going to get her and make "rahr" noises, she would run
toward him instead of away. She liked being tickled. Mimi came along and
did the same thing. She would also joyfully come running and present her
butt when asked if she wanted a spanking. Obviously I'm no good at real
abuse. Now the dogs also come running when I ask one of them if they need
a spanking. When I tell them I am going to get them, they run away for a
minute and then run back, butt tuck zooming all the way.
Paula
Paula
> This is true. "We don't demand much of each other" keeps going
> through my mind.
Is "demand much of" the same as "have much to do with?" Maybe I just need
to buy a thesaurus and it will all make sense. Is there a special
engineering thesaurus that I don't know about or something?
Paula
Many Dogs (flick)
news:Xns9964A892DEDC6mm...@199.45.49.11...
> to buy a thesaurus and it will all make sense. Is there a special
> engineering thesaurus that I don't know about or something?
Obviously you haven't seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vVMMCE_x-A
Heh.
flick 100785
Paula
news:janet-CDB217....@news.individual.net:
> I had a young couple start class a few years ago, with a toy mixed
> breed. They e-mailed before week 3 (dogs are there from week 2 on)
> and said they didn't want a refund or anything, but they found that
> they didn't feel right asking anything of the dog. Huh? What did
> they think obedience class meant?
I know some people like that with kids and with dogs. It's sad when
people don't realize that limits are good things. You don't have to
have dogs that can win obedience contests or dogs who blow you off.
There is a whole middle ground in there. I should know. My dogs don't
do anything difficult, mostly because I am too lazy to do sports and
stuff with them. But we do interact in ways that teach limits. When
you see the joyful sitting that is done around here, you can see that it
is a great thing to the dogs to know exactly what they can do to get
your attention even if you don't feel comfortable with demanding their
attention. The interactionswork both ways and you both end up with a
stronger bond and a whole new vocabulary to meet needs and desires with.
Paula
Paula
news:Xns99647F6...@216.196.97.142:
> What he does not recognise that Muttley is also imposing his will.
> Equality really does not exist.
I was trying to tell a neighbor this when she asked me some questions about
my dogs because she is having trouble with her dog. She has a "let's all
just get along" personality, which is fine as I do as well. But, as I told
her, dogs are hierarchical by nature. They don't "get" no leader in the
group. So if they don't see leadership, they'll step up to the plate and
lead you. Nothing personal, it's just a job that has to be done and a role
that has to be filled and they no doubt assume you are just as
uncomfortable without a leader as they are and are grateful to them for
taking on the job.
Paula
bethgsd
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
> He has to be willing to change that concept if the training of Muttley is
> to continue. Unless he's willing to change that ideology.. training
> Muttley
> is not going to happen. It's his choice. No reason to beat him up over it.
No, but it is also his choice to post here.
Beth
diddy
<bet...@nospam.verizon.net> whittled the following words:
I see. So because he posts here, the group is supposed to rip him to
shreds, simply because his philosophy is different than ours and decides
to explore dog training to the tune of his own drummer?
bethgsd
"Suja" <span...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10aji.7789$aP2...@newsfe16.lga...
>
>
> Not to mention, I don't decide to teach new stuff to the dogs by talking
> in
> complete sentences, but S-L-O-W-L-Y and LOUDLY, 'cuz clearly, the dogs
> understand English, just not if you speak it fast or softly. I will admit
> that there is a certain entertainment value to watching this sort of
> "training" going on.
>
> Suja
This deserved a warning! I have a picture of Rajeesh <-brain fart on
spelling, doing the "Ugly American" thing with dogs.
Beth
>
>
sighthounds & siberians
wrote:
>sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> wrote in
>news:322q83hpo0giblaet...@4ax.com:
>
>> This is true. "We don't demand much of each other" keeps going
>> through my mind.
>
>Is "demand much of" the same as "have much to do with?"
I interpreted it that way, mostly due to context. Hopefully that's
incorrect, or if it's correct it will change.
>Maybe I just need
>to buy a thesaurus and it will all make sense. Is there a special
>engineering thesaurus that I don't know about or something?
I certainly wouldn't know about it if there were. Although I do think
we're dealing with a language barrier here.
Mustang Sally
sighthounds & siberians
wrote:
We have a particularly nosey neighbor here.** I think that if she
lived near you, and didn't know you well, you could have some fun with
her...
Mustang Sally
**Not long after I had brain surgery, a foster husky dug himself out
of the yard and had a romp in the neighborhood. When I went out to
try to coax him in, she was outside and pointed out the direction he
took. I explained that due to balance problems I couldn't chase him,
and she said she didn't know I'd had surgery and immediately asked
what the scar on my neck was from (thyroidectomies). Recently our
housemate walked across the street to say hello for the first time
this summer and Cheryl immediately told her she knew she was sick
because sometimes she saw her with hair (wig) and sometimes without.
She then topped herself by saying that the only two people she'd known
with cancer died. Anyone want her?
Paula
@registered.motzarella.org:
> the.longest.use...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I don't care what he does with his dog. I have a problem when he
>> starts posting advice to people like he actually solved his problems
>> with his dog. Ignoring them does not equal a solution.
>
> His "advice" is more like a lengthy "Hey, look at me-me-me"
> advertisement. I suspect it is also motivated by his need to blame
> other people and try to make them look bad.
>
Apparently he gives credit to Koehler methods for working better than
Jerry's. I guess it is only when someone else suggests Koehler that it
is evil and causes perfectly sweet dogs to go Cujo on the next dog's ass
out of nowhere. I hate when that happens!
My personal belief is that my dogs are mine, so whatever they are doing
or not doing and whatever or whoever might have had a hand in that, it is
my problem to solve it. I should get a different attitude. I'd have a
lot less on my plate that way.
Paula
Paula
news:10aji.7789$aP2...@newsfe16.lga:
> "Shelly" <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote in message:
>>
>> If anyone here has made a habit of blaming others for their dogs'
>> training (or lack thereof), I have missed it.
>
> I don't know if I've done it here, or if I've done it here
> sufficiently for it to stick in anyone's mind, but it is *clearly* a
> certain other person's fault that my dogs have the bad habits they
> have. *I* don't feed them off my plate, and *I* sure as hell don't
> use commands I can't enforce.
The last time my dad was over, he bought pizza for the kids to have for
dinner (as usual) and the dogs immediately gravitated to him because they
know that he breaks the feeding the dogs at the table rule (as usual).
But I noticed that he was feeding Faith because she was putting her front
paws up on his leg while he ignored Sammie because Sammie was sitting and
waiting patiently like a good boy who wants treats is supposed to do. He
had his best "I am such a good boy and you love me!" face on and
everything. I had to draw the line at that point. I told my dad that I
turn a blind eye to his disregarding their training to spoil them, but he
can't undo their training completely by ignoring the one that is doing as
trained while rewarding the one who isn't. He then made sure to throw
some pizza bits to the dogs that were sitting and begging with their eyes
as well as to the one who was begging with her paws. I'm not sure we'll
ever train him not to feed the one who begs with her paws and heaven
knows she'll be the last one to give up trying. You don't tell the queen
what to do or not to do, don't you know. She only puts up with our
shortcomings in the spoiling department because good servants like
Grandpa are hard to find and don't live here full time.
Paula
Shelly
> Apparently he gives credit to Koehler methods for working better than
> Jerry's. I guess it is only when someone else suggests Koehler that it
> is evil and causes perfectly sweet dogs to go Cujo on the next dog's ass
> out of nowhere. I hate when that happens!
Amazing, isn't it? But it fits with his need to blame others
instead of taking responsibility himself.
> My personal belief is that my dogs are mine, so whatever they are doing
> or not doing and whatever or whoever might have had a hand in that, it is
> my problem to solve it.
No way!
> I should get a different attitude. I'd have a lot less on my plate that way.
No kidding. Maybe, the next time Harriet is being B-A-D, I'll shrug
and say, "That's just how she is."
Shelly
> I see. So because he posts here, the group is supposed to rip him to
> shreds, simply because his philosophy is different than ours and decides
> to explore dog training to the tune of his own drummer?
No. If he were just training his dog, I think most folks would be
happy and encouraging. That's not what he's doing, though. He has
an ugly agenda.
Also, "philosophy"? What philosophy? Paul has shown no sign of
having any sort of coherent, consistent ideas about training. As
for "exploring dog training," don't make me laugh.
the.longest.use...@gmail.com
> diddy wrote:
> > I see. So because he posts here, the group is supposed to rip him to
> > shreds, simply because his philosophy is different than ours and decides
> > to explore dog training to the tune of his own drummer?
>
> No. If he were just training his dog, I think most folks would be
> happy and encouraging. That's not what he's doing, though. He has
> an ugly agenda.
>
> Also, "philosophy"? What philosophy? Paul has shown no sign of
> having any sort of coherent, consistent ideas about training. As
> for "exploring dog training," don't make me laugh.
>
> --
I agree, he can train his dog however he wants for all I care. It is
his dog to mess up if he does a piss poor job with his
"experimenting". I take issue when he replies to people who come
looking for advice with stories of what he does with his dog like he
is trying to suggest they do the same. Personally, experimentation is
fine, but I sure wouldn't be recommending something as a cure if I
haven't seen results in my own experimentation. Until he has actually
shown his methods have results and actually qualify as training, I
won't hesitate to rip him apart any time I believe he is recommending
his methods, even if it is only a statement that could be interpreted
as a recommendation.
Nick
Melinda Shore
the.longest.use...@gmail.com <the.longest.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Personally, experimentation is
>fine, but I sure wouldn't be recommending something as a cure if I
>haven't seen results in my own experimentation. Until he has actually
>shown his methods have results and actually qualify as training, I
>won't hesitate to rip him apart any time I believe he is recommending
>his methods, even if it is only a statement that could be interpreted
>as a recommendation.
Please feel free to do the same with other, more popular
denizens of rpdb who do the same thing. It's unfortunately
common, although the circumstances tend to be different
(inexperienced or relatively inexperienced owners/trainers
parroting stuff they've read online or heard from friends
without trying it themselves). Paul's is particularly
problematic because he says he's tried this and that when he
obviously didn't really, but in general when you give advice
about something you've never tried you don't know if there's
something to it that you'd missed that you wouldn't have if
you'd actually done it, and you don't have the experience of
making corrections to the process when something wacky goes
wrong.
It's not as if there's a shortage of experienced, skilled
trainers here.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
diddy
Shore) whittled the following words:
> Please feel free to do the same with other, more popular
> denizens of rpdb who do the same thing.
Who does that? I have not seen anyone else besides Jerry pimping "Their"
methods. Unless you are begging carte Blanche assassination of Broom Sandy.
Just who are you sic'ing people on?
Shelly
> Unless you are begging carte Blanche assassination of Broom Sandy.
Why on earth would Blanche do such a thing?
Shelly
> Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>> Maybe, the next time Harriet is being B-A-D, I'll shrug
>> and say, "That's just how she is."
>
Aw, hell! I was so close, and yet so totally incorrect. I shall
strive to get it right, next time.
Janet Boss
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
> Rocky wrote:
> > Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> >
> >> Maybe, the next time Harriet is being B-A-D, I'll shrug
> >> and say, "That's just how she is."
> >
> > No: "It's all Janet's fault."
>
> Aw, hell! I was so close, and yet so totally incorrect. I shall
> strive to get it right, next time.
Wahhhhhh! I'v never even MET Harriet! Maybe I send evil vibes?
I met a very nice young Boxer today. Unfortunately, it as while taking
a bratwurst of a Golden from the only home she has ever known (she's
almost 8). He was all waggles and wiggles. So was she. Once hoisted
into my vehicle, she was an angel on the drive to her foster home.
Weird - this is what I would call a "petite Golden (short in height and
length) but at 107#+, she needs to lose 1/2 her current weight to
actually appear petite. I'm just a big meanie though.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Shelly
> Wahhhhhh! I'v never even MET Harriet! Maybe I send evil vibes?
Where there's a will, there's a way.
> I met a very nice young Boxer today. Unfortunately, it as while taking
> a bratwurst of a Golden from the only home she has ever known (she's
> almost 8). He was all waggles and wiggles.
That's Boxers for ya'. And they never quite grow out of the wriggly
stage, either. I find it absolutely enchanting.
> So was she. Once hoisted into my vehicle,
Lordy! Didja get a hernia?
> she was an angel on the drive to her foster home.
> Weird - this is what I would call a "petite Golden (short in height and
> length) but at 107#+, she needs to lose 1/2 her current weight to
> actually appear petite. I'm just a big meanie though.
Someone should have been mean to that dog long ago. That is
heartbreaking. Didn't someone tell the owners that foie gras comes
from *geese*, not dogs?
the.longest.use...@gmail.com
> Rocky wrote:
> > Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> >> Maybe, the next time Harriet is being B-A-D, I'll shrug
> >> and say, "That's just how she is."
>
> > No: "It's all Janet's fault."
>
> Aw, hell! I was so close, and yet so totally incorrect. I shall
> strive to get it right, next time.
>
> --
Why strive to get anything at all?
Nick
Shelly
> Why strive to get anything at all?
I am too OCD to master Paul's lackadaisical attitude.