For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply
lucy...@claque.net
<snip>
> Here's what Jerry is after: Attention.
>
> His methods are pretty much routine. But he manages to convince
> people like you, dog rubes, by packaging them with Newspeak that he's
> got something "special" or "revolutionary," etc.
>
> You're being conned, Lucy.
Could be. Let's, then, talk about specific techniques presented in his
manual. Like, for instance, saying goodbye to a toy, in order to cure
the dog's separation anxiety. What do you think of it?
> If you're not his wife, that is, and act as a team.
I'm not his wife, but I do intend to promote his method to the best of
my abilities - unless you and the other professional trainers here will
manage to prove to me that (in spite of the fact that Jerry's method
worked wonders with my dogs) the method is worthless, or worse:
dangerous to the dogs.
> ><snip>
> >
> >> Millions of people would be beating a path to Jerry's door and
> >> showering him with money if there was anything special about Jerry's
> >> "method," including good ol' Handsome Jack Morrison.
> >
> >What do you think about praising a dog in order to make him stop bad
> >behavior, Jack?
>
> I think it serves as a SOUND DISTRACTION.
>
> Nothing more, nothing less.
That's about like saying that money is nothing but paper, because they
are made of paper. But you certainly know that sound distraction on its
own DOESN'T stop bad behavior, or does so only for a moment or two.
Otherwise, all you had to do when the dog was doing something he
shouldn't (like, for instance, peeing on another dog, or trying to eat
the cat), would be to simply tell him to stop.
> You could call the dog a ^&&^%$ and a &^%$)^&%# and get the exact same
> results.
You can PRAISE the dog in English, Hebrew or Chinese, just as you can
SCOLD the dog in the language of your choice; somehow, the animal
manages to distinguish between the angry "No!" and the encouraging and
approving "GOOD boy!". Just like a very little baby responds to your
smile with a smile, while a stern face eventually makes him cry. Of
course, if you tell the baby or the dog, in a friendly, enthusiastic,
praising voice that he is the worst creature in the world and you wish
he was dead, they'd still respond as if you praised them, because the
meaning of the words for THEM would be different than it is for YOU.
> Trainers have been using sound distractions for eons.
"Sound distraction" and "praise" are two different things, as you very
well know. Praising of bad behavior, as Jerry uses it, is "punishing"
the dog, since it effectively makes the dog stop that specific
behavior. I doubt that THIS particular function of praise has been
employed by so many trainers before Jerry.
> >> But Jerry has steadfastly refused to put up or shut up, as in putting
> >> his "method" up against the many other methods out there(and letting
> >> the dogs and results speak for themselves),
> >
> >He put his method on the web, for everyone who wants to try it to use
> >it and see for oneself if it works or not. The results do speak for
> >themselves, indeed.
>
> To you, they have.
They most certainly have: a puppy that could be left at home alone,
together with a much older dog and two kittens, without having to worry
that the house would be ruined in our absence and the kittens hunted
and eaten; a puppy who would dig like mad and who stops as soon as he's
praised; an older dog who was afraid of thunder all her life and who
now can bear to walk in the rain without panic attacks; two dogs who
used to pull on the leash and who can walk now without me having to run
to keep up with their pace. I think that these are just a few of the
results that do speak for themselves, and pretty loudly, too.
> But to experience dog owners/trainers, there's really no there there.
That's exactly what I'd like to understand: why not? Do these
experienced trainers/dog owners prefer to have their houses turned into
total chaos, their dogs fight each other till they need to be taken to
the vet for their wounds, their cat torn to pieces? Are they really so
excited about their dogs raiding the garbage and stealing food from the
counters? Do you mean that there is this well-known, unexciting
training method that can prevent or put an end to all these problems
and the experienced trainers/dog owners just choose to NOT use it,
despite their familiarity with it?
> And certainly nothing "new."
Maybe it's not new anymore - Jerry has been advertising it on the web
and in these groups for some time; but it is still so stubbornly
resisted that it makes me wonder. What my inexpert eyes see as a
possible cause of this otherwise inexplicable resistance is the fact
that it is extremely unconventional. It's not what one normally does,
when a dog or a child does something wrong: we do not feel like
praising, we feel like expressing our disapproval and anger with a
variable degree of unpleasantness inflicted to the perpetrator. In
simpler words, punishing bad behavior (in the commonly accepted sense
of the word) comes naturally; praising is how we instinctively react to
good behaviors only. It takes a paradigm shift to use praise as a way
to stop bad behavior and unconventional thinking just does not occur
naturally. If you have a creative mind you're more likely to see its
merits, or at least to be willing to try; if you're an expert in the
field, it's more difficult to break the rigid frame of your thinking,
since all your expertise simply screams against it. You simply know
from years of experience that if the dog does A you do B, using tools
C, D, or E. And here comes someone who has the nerve to say that all
you have been doing, with such good results (except of those stubborn
hopeless cases when you failed and the dog had to die), is dead wrong
and his way of doing exactly the opposite of what you do is better. I
can well understand that it's infuriating; what I can't understand is
how come that your curiosity doesn't push you to try it anyway, even
without telling anyone that you do, when you're all alone and not a
soul would know and tell.
> >> because he knows he'd get
> >> laughed off the grounds.
> >
> >He offered someone in this group to adopt her dog who had become
> >aggressive. The person refused and the dog was destroyed.
>
> It's always too bad when a dog has to be euthanized, but I'd rather
> turn over one of my dogs to Jack The Ripper than to Jerry.
Then here is where you and I differ: I'd rather take my chances with
someone I hate than have my dog killed. I don't believe that my dog
could be better off dead than alive and with someone I utterly dislike,
but who could, for all that, be good to my dog. Even if I have the
worst opinion of that person, I'd still go and meet him, see how he
interacts with my dog, try to talk with him in Real Life. If he'd be my
beloved dog's only chance to stay alive, I'd certainly take the trouble
to check this possibility before deciding to put my dog down.
> Why would anyone in his or her right mind turn over a beloved dog to a
> crazy, vile human being?
Because someone who is crazy and vile to humans is not necessarily so
to his dogs. Besides, despite the heated and often crazy way in which
we communicate to one another on Usenet, we might find out that in Real
Life our virtual enemies are not so "bad", or not even so very
different from ourselves. I'm sure that the fact that we're fighting
here so much is due to one thing that we all have in common: a deep
concern and love (though we have our different ways to understand this
love) for dogs - our own dogs, and dogs in general.
> >That dog
> >could have been exactly the kind of test you're talking about. In that
> >case, it wasn't Jerry the one who refused to "walk the walk".
>
> Jerry's been called out so many times that I can't even remember them
> all.
>
> For example, to have a disinterested third party take several abused
> and or incorrigible dogs from shelter and have Jerry do his thing and
> have me do my thing, in front of cameras, etc., and let the results
> speak for themselves. I even offered to pay his way.
>
> Each and every time, he refused to participate.
>
> That is, *all* those dogs "could have been saved," right?
Jerry might have other things higher up on his priority list, than
travel to wherever you are and compete with you in such a setting. But
you could try Jerry's method by yourself on one of those hopeless dogs,
and see if it works or not.
> >> The only people who believe any of his crap are naive, gullible dog
> >> NOVICES like yourself.
> >
> >"His crap" WORKED, Jack.
>
> What I meant there was that you apparently believe that "his crap" is
> anything new or revolutionary.
>
> It's not.
If it's not, why nobody is trying it, when having to deal with hopeless
cases - like the dog who persistently pees on the other dog of his
owners? Why not do the simple, easy thing, before moving to harsher and
more risky methods? Why people don't even bother to TRY?
> >I may be gullible and naïve, but then my dogs
> >are even more gullible and naïve, because they reacted exactly as
> >Jerry predicted they would.
>
>
> >> And it's a damn shame.
> >
> >Look, I've been seeing here people who claim to be "trainers" and whose
> >houses look like a battlefield after their "TRAINED" dogs spent there a
> >few hours alone;
>
> For example?
For example, this one:
http://www.employees.org/~shore/trashedbedroom2.jpg
It's what the trained dogs of our friend Melinda have done, when left
alone at home. Now, Melinda IS a professional trainer, is she not? -
unbelievable as it may be.
>
> >others give complicated advice about how to protect
> >their cats from their dogs;
>
> So what?
Well, I prefer the simple straightforward and painless way to teach my
critters to coexist peacefully. Oh, if that only could work with humans
the way it does with cats and dogs!
> >others can't even walk their dogs on a
> >leash,
>
> There are some pretty lousy trainers out there, Lucy.
Yeah, and some of them are posting right here, criticizing - without
ever having tried it or even having understood it - a method that helps
the average dog owner to get rid of precisely such problems.
> There are some pretty lousy doctors, engineers, lawyers, out there,
> too.
No doubt. But you wouldn't go to them, if you could choose better ones,
would you.
> >or prevent their opposite sex dogs from wounding each other in
> >their continuous fights. I could have been in the place of these
> >unfortunate owners, but for this simple and easy method that Jerry had
> >made available for me and the rest of the world.
>
> Well, I'm happy that it worked for you.
>
> But that doesn't mean that Jerry had much to do with it.
Then what would be the fact that a puppy determined to make my house
look like Melinda's suddenly changed his mind as soon as I did as Jerry
says, in his manual? A coincidence, maybe?
> Over the many years that I've been here, literally thousands of dog
> owners have been helped here, and by *many* of the regulars, and none
> of us feel the need to claim that our help was "revolutionary" or
> "special" or "new," or needed to post the same "testimonials" over and
> over again, ad nauseam, etc. -- because we're not here to SELL
> anything, like Jerry is.
Jerry must be a very poor salesman if he expects to make a fortune
giving away not some isolated training tips, but a method to deal with
your puppy on your own, without a Real Life trainer's help.
If you mean selling his DDR machine, well, logic dictates that he
shouldn't compete with himself by offering a training method that
solves the problems the machine is supposed to cure. And that, while
the advice you can see here the most frequently from the other posters
is "get a trainer's help".
> We just want to help people with their dog problems and have a little
> fun in the process.
>
> That you can't figure this out for yourself says a lot more about you
> than it does us.
I can well understand the desire to help, just as the one to have fun.
Personally, I prefer the solution that is the easiest to apply, fast
and - above all - painless for the dog. Not to mention the fact that it
is given for free (so much about SELLING anything).
> >> >Even a child could
> >> >train a dog by this method (as a matter of fact,
> >>
> >> Children and adults have been "training" dogs from the first days that
> >> dogs/wolves decided to share a campfire (and maybe some food) with
> >> primitive man. It ain't rocket science, actually.
> >
> >True. One needs a bit of intuition, though - and a good understanding
> >of the beast.
>
> They won't get that from Jerry, who has repeatedly claimed here that
> he doesn't even like dogs.
And yet, he clearly understands dogs, and dogs respond to his training
method exactly as he predicts. Strange, isn't it?
> >> We're still using food to good effect, even today.
> >>
> >> In fact, the vast majority of dogs do pretty damn good (no, they won't
> >> win any ribbons, etc. but they can become pretty doggone good
> >> house-pets and companions) with basically no *formal* training
> >> whatsoever.
> >
> >Agreed. But once in a while you have to deal with a little devil who
> >simply drives you crazy. It was one like that who made me search the
> >web until I found Jerry's method, luckily for both me and my dog.
>
> Again, you're a fool to Jerry any credit for it.
>
> Classical and operant conditioning should get all of the credit.
And the Theory of Evolution, and the Second Law of Thermodynamics, too.
But, as it happens, it was Jerry who made it a working method which I
could apply in the particular case of my puppies.
> Again, think: Infinite Monkey Theory.
>
> Even some idiot like Jerry must get something right, if he keeps
> typing long enough.
Yeah. Why doesn't this happen also to a few others here, who can't
solve an easy problem - like making their dogs to stop counter surfing?
Don't tell me that they simple adore it when their dogs steal things
from the kitchen table!
> >> >I think that children
> >> >do get along so well with dogs BECAUSE instinctively they train them
> >> >according to Jerry's method: treat the dog with respect, earn the dog's
> >> >trust, and the dog will do ANYTHING you ask).
> >>
> >> Oh. My. God.
> >>
> >> Again, do you really believe that shit?
> >
> >I've seen it in action, Jack. My first dog was trained by my two nieces
> >- 12 and 11 y.o. at the time. I was busy reading dog training books,
> >while the kids were making the dog do whatever they wanted by simply
> >treating the dog with lots of love and kindness.
>
> I think you're basically full of shit then, or, your nieces were named
> Sigfried and Roy.
Neither. You do have a problem with the truth when it doesn't fit what
you think the truth should be, don't you.
> >> Kids can be amongst the worst of tormentors of dogs on the planet;
> >> that's why they get bitten so often!
> >
> >I know. Children reflect on animals the violence they are subjected to
> >by their caretakers.
>
> Oh, bullshit. Some kids are just plain mean. Period.
Do you think that they are BORN mean? There's no such thing. Kids learn
and imitate what they see.
> They could have the nicest, sweetest parents in the world, and usually
> do.
Usually, there is some horrible cruelty going on, invisible to the
outsiders. Sometimes it's those nice, sweet parents, sometimes another
relative or another adult in the proximity of the kids. Look, we all
have the POTENTIAL to be cruel to other living things. It's in our
genes. It's what made our ancestors become such successful hunters. But
civilization is about NOT hurting creatures when we don't have to do it
in order to survive, and this is something that we have to learn, since
our early childhood.
> >> Especially when the kid's parents are as clueless as the kid, which is
> >> far too often the case.
> >
> >True.
> >
> >> Most importantly, every trainer worth his salt knows that treating a
> >> dog with respect (and consistency!) can help to earn a dog's trust.
> >
> >Is choking a dog, for instance, the way to show this respect?
>
> Who here recommends choking a dog, Lucy?
No choking, surely; just making the noise a choking chain about to
choke makes, right?
> Do you have your own personal tank of nitrous oxide, by any chance?
>
> <boggle>
>
> >> That you attribute this virtue to Jerry Howe and Jerry Howe alone
> >> shows me any one of several things:
> >>
> >> 1. You don't get out much.
> >> 2. You're married to Jerry Howe
> >> 3. Jerry Howe pays you to say things like that.
> >>
> >> Which is it?
> >
> >LOL. Certainly not 2 (I have the slight feeling that Mrs. Howe would
> >object to such an eventuality) and neither 3: Jerry doesn't have to pay
> >me to tell the truth. I tried his method on my critters, it worked, I
> >came here to report the results.
>
> Oh, bullshit. He asked you to come here and "report the results."
He had no idea I even existed before I made my first post here.
Whatever conversation we had, it took place only right here, in the
open. You can see for yourself.
> He didn't however ask those idiots who actually bought his little
> machine (the one he hawks relentlessly) and didn't got BUPKIS for
> results to come here and "report the results."
I have no idea about his machine - I didn't buy it, because his
training manual solved the problems I had with my dogs. But I can tell
you something that I noticed about my dogs: they like to come and
listen to music. The cats like that, too - when I'm at my computer, I
usually listen to music and eventually all my critters, dogs and cats
together, are on the sofa beside me, lying peacefully side by side,
until they fall asleep. So I wouldn't be too surprised that certain
sequences of ultrasounds had a calming effect on them, too.
> >I did so, expecting the people here to
> >put their feelings aside when the good of the dogs was involved.
>
> I can love dogs and still loathe Jerry, can't I?
Your sacred privilege, of course. But aren't you just a little bit
curious to see if the thing works indeed or not?
<snip>
> >Then you must have tried this crazy thing, praising bad behavior? Did
> >it work for you, or not?
>
> It's a DISTRACTION. Period.
No, it's not. The SOUND is a distraction; praise is definitely
something else. HAVE you ever tried it, yes or no? From the way you
talk about it, I bet you haven't.
>
> If you want to keep thinking that the praising of the behavior is
> what's helping, try cursing your dog's behavior with your next dog,
> and with the same enthusiasm that you used to "praise" your current
> dog..
Do you think the dog understands English, Hebrew or Swahili? The words
you use are irrelevant; the meaning of the words - to the DOG - is what
counts. If you curse the dog and consistently make it sound like
praise, then it IS praise - for the DOG. If you angrily yell at your
dog "Good boy!" he won't interpret it as praise, I'm sure.
> Report back the results, okay?
I already have done so - I'm not talking English to my dogs, Jack.
> >> Again, "experts" around the world would be flocking to Jerry's Florida
> >> shanty (yes, I've actually seen it! it's a shanty.)
> >
> >It doesn't matter if it's a shanty or a palace. His METHOD is either
> >good or bad, REGARDLESS of who or what he is, much less where he lives.
>
> His "method" is neither good nor bad.
>
> It's just the same old same old.
>
> >> to find out more
> >> about this wonderful "new" way of Jerry's.
> >
> >They don't need all this Real Life pilgrimage; his method is on the
> >web. All they need to do is read it and try it themselves.
>
> What they need is to see it COMPARED to other methods, and to let the
> results (and the dogs) speak for themselves.
This is something that you could easily do yourself. Try it, if not for
other reasons, just in order to prove Jerry wrong. Do it exactly as he
says, and see if it works or not.
> >> But there's nothing in his
> >> "manual" that can't be found elsewhere, and there's certainly nothing
> >> magical about it.
> >
> >What about praising bad behavior, for instance?
>
> He's managed to convince you that this is something "new," when it's
> not, if you keep in mind that it's just a SOUND DISTRACTION.
But it ISN'T just a sound distraction, since sound distraction alone
DOESN'T WORK.
<snip>
> >Actually, I'm just astounded that no one of you can take Jerry's method
> >step by step and prove what is wrong with it, in spite of the obvious
> >fact that it works.
>
> Why???
It's what a scientist would do, in order to prove that a theory is
wrong; that, and trying to reproduce the results of the original author
by following precisely the technique presented. That's the way of
proving or disproving something in science and it's an objective,
reliable way - it works even for more complicated cases than something
as straightforward as Jerry's dog training method.
> That's what COMPETITION is all about.
>
> The chance to TEST the effectiveness of one method, one trainer, etc.
> against another.
>
> You should ask Jerry why he refuses to compete.
Jerry did the right thing by publishing his method and his results;
it's up to you, his peers, to critically review his paper (i.e. analyze
it step by step and show why it wouldn't work, in what cases) and to
try to duplicate his results by following his method exactly. As I have
already said, this is the scientific way to prove or disprove a theory.
There is no need of any competition - just an honest effort to find out
the truth.
>
> I.e., walk the walk.
The ball is in your field, Handsome Jack. Prove that Jerry is wrong.
> Ain't gonna happen.
Well, that's entirely up to you.
Lucy
YourConscience
Thank you!.
Bye the bye, while you're here abHOWETS you MIGHT
just wanna ask professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" INTO ITS FACE for five seconds and lock IT
in a box for ten minutes contimplation" dermer of
UofWI department of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM or his
partner dr mark plonsky of the ethology departmet
THE SAME SAME SAME SAME questions.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
YourConscience
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:02:44 -0500
Subject: Professora Daniel, Sunshine, Meet Mr. And Mrs. Puppy Wizzzard
- Re: Praising BAD Behaviors Is GOOD
HOWEDY Professor Dermer,
Marshall Dermer wrote:
> In article <3E62C8D0.4080...@netscape.net> ThePuppyWiz...@netscape.net writes:
>>HOWEDY People,
>>This post will cover most of what you never thought
>>of and MOORE than you already know about stuff...
INDEED. The Puppy Wizzzard's in depth post articulates all
of the problems and principles of behavior as detailed in
your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual.
> If this post was written by Jerry Howe
Does HOWER good Professor believe The Puppy Wizzzard
would plagiarize anothers work? Hardly likely wouldn't
you agree, knowing the depth and breadth of HIS colossal
ego and profound Mastery Of Wizzzardry???
> then I offer my congratulations to Jerry
Thank you sincerely, Professor. The Puppy Wizzzard
was rather surprised that you read and replied to
HIS lengthy post within sixteen minutes, DESPITE
that The Puppy Wizzzard is in your KILLFILE. Took
The Puppy Wizzzard nearly fourteen minutes just
to re read his own original post.
> on having posted such positive material.
Your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual has proven 100% CONSISTENT
SUCCESS for all comers who've chosen to RISK relying on
such poorly written work, here on HOWER forum.
Such CONSISTENCY proves the science, does it not, Professor?
As a behavior analyst with a personal interest in dogs as a
dog lover, WON might expect your interest to be piqued to the
point that even wild horses couldn't prevent you from analyzing
the methods and techniques and assist in promoting such a
"FANTASTIC AMAZING MIRACULOUS INCREDIBLE LIFE SAVING" gestalt.
The quotes were provided by The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Students. IN FACT, Professor,
The Puppy Wizzzard OFFERED YOU the PRIVILEGE of EDITING HIS
WORK early on, for whatever your contract price might have been.
INSTEAD, you chose to MOCK the fruit of The Puppy Wizzzard's
blood, sweat, and tears.
The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual SAVES DOGS LIVES when ALL the rest cannot even begin
to help. That's a proven fact, PROFESSOR. The archives are
replete with case histories and testimonials, Professor.
The Puppy And Mrs. Puppy Wizzzard met with Professora Daniel
and HOWER dog Sunshine last Sunday, just for the kibbitz. We
had lunch and spent about seven HOWERS discussing their case
history...
Professora Daniel had taught nursing for thirty years, and
has a rather keen knowledge of the methods taught at the
small animal behavior clinic at Purdue, and has MET IN
PERSON with dra pat mcconnel, author of "the cautious
canine," ALL FOR NAUGHT, at the cost of $5000.00 dollars
and SEVENTY HOWERS of professional training recommended
BY THE UNIVERSITIES, which only made him WORSE, and brought
him to the very brink of DEATH.
The Puppy Wizzzard's POORLY WRITTEN LESS THAN WON hundred
page FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual TOTALLY
REHABILITATED THEM in a few days, NEARLY INSTANTLY, for FREE.
HOWER dog Sunshine is going to become a THERAPY DOG, and
work with J.Q. Pubic, as have several FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Students. Sunshine will be certified
upon HOWER next meeting.
Professora Daniel and Sunshine are going to proceed to
file lawsuits in court, not solely to recoup their losses,
but to PREVENT the continued DEATH PAIN and FEAR in other
troubled dogs, at the hands of HOWER university trained
BEHAVIORISTS.
> --Marshall Dermer
The Puppy Wizzzard is INDEED, A TRUE HOCHOM. That makes The
Puppy Wizzzard's DADDY VERY PROUD of HIS little Mensch. I'm
SHORE you appreciate THAT, Professor.
_____________________________________________________________
> I have read rpdb for about seven years.
The Puppy Wizzzard has been working here exclusively for nearly five
years, for FREE. The Puppy Wizzzard didn't NEED to come here,
Professor.
IN FACT, comin here has been extremely costly for The Puppy Wizzzard
and
HIS family who've SACRIFICED to satisfy realization of HIS lofty goals.
The Puppy Wizzzard has worked very hard for forty years, kinda like
Moishe in the desert, carrying the Word Of G-d in a sacred box. The
Puppy Wizzzard's MAGICK BLACK BOX does all and MOORE than The Puppy
Wizzzard claims. The Puppy Wizzzard's Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will
And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) machine were it
promoted as ANY inventor/manufacturer would have promoted it, would
have made The Puppy Wizzzard and HIS family VERY WEALTHY over these
past five years.
HOWEver, The Puppy Wizzzard chose to forego the near dollar and risk
it all, for the whole nine yards... That's DONE, Professor. It's TIME.
> Consequently, I urge newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts
> of the rpdb regulars from whom I have learned much.
You still want to promote your lying dog abusing Punk Thug Coward
pals on The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Forum? That's SUICIDE, Professor, is it not? Pupper dog training is
NOT a matter of PREFERENCE. The Puppy Wizzzard and HIS Doggy Do Right
machine have PROVEN dog training is a PRECISE SCIENCE.
> They include: Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane
> Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy Holmes,
> Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin
> Nuttall, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
> Webb, and Terri Willis.
Liars and dog abusers, professor. The Puppy Wizzzard's ARCHIVES prove
that FACT.
> Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis Specialty/
> Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee/
> Milwaukee, WI 53201
> der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
The Puppy Wizzzard intends to launch a full scale attack on HIS
detractors, along with HIS BLITZKRIEG on the Universities.
> "Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
> and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William Safire
HOWEver UN civilized The Puppy Wizzzard may indeed be HAS NO BEARING on
the FACTS of the matter, DOES IT, professor...
Here's the deal. The Puppy Wizzzard is about to introduce HIS DDR
machine to the media. That in itself will PROVE to the general pubic
EXXXACTLY what The Puppy Wizzzard sez is TRUE SCIENCE. The impending
lawsuits against the universities could take years, and like any case
goin to a jury, may depend on matters other than FACT, as we KNOW the
judicial system to often fail, to a fast talkin lawyer and "expert"
witness testimony, as will be provided at tremendous expense and
EMBARRASSMENT to the universities.
The Puppy Wizzzard cannot be intimidated or diverted from HIS goals.
REGARDLESS of the court outcome, J.Q. Pubic is going to necessarily
support The Puppy Wizzzard.
You MIGHT save your own skin simply by ENDORSING The Puppy Wizzzard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method and influence HOWER Gang Of
Lying Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards to study and teach The FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method... at which time The Puppy Wizzzard
MIGHT forgive and FORGET the unfortunate, difficult LEARNING CURVE
here on rpdb.
FurtherMOORE, professor, were WE to be gettin 100% CONSISTENT SUCCESS
here on The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Forum, the other university professors MIGHT SEE THE LIGHT, and do
likeWIZE... at which time Professora Daniel and The Puppy Wizzzard
MIGHT disappear into the Sunshine...
"HOWERS is not to reason HOWE COME,
HOWERS is but to DO or BE DONE."
The Puppy Wizzzard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >
Handsome Jack Morrison
news:1121628829.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
[reams of repetititive gibberish snipped to spare the senses]
>> I.e., walk the walk.
>
> The ball is in your field, Handsome Jack. Prove that Jerry is wrong.
No, Lucy, the ball isn't in my "field," or even my court. It's in Jerry's.
Many regulars have already taken the time to present to you (sometimes in
excrutiatingly fine detail) all of Jerry's history here, rebutted your
claims, point by point, etc., and it's quite obvious now that no amount of
words written here (not even Jerry's own!) is ever going to convince
someone like you that Jerry is a kook and a shyster, so, as I said in a
previous post, I'm no longer going to try. I can recognize a brick wall
when I see one.
As far as Jerry being "right" or "wrong" goes, I have never said that
everything Jerry claims here is wrong. Much of it will indeed "work" (and
it was "working" for other trainers/owners before Jerry was even born),
provided the trainer/owner puts in the time, etc., and doesn't expect to
end up with Lassie or Rin Tin Tin. It's quite possible to "train" a dog
without using any formal training-method whatsoever, and the vast majority
of dogs still somehow become satisfactorily trained in spite of their
owners. Yes, your definition of satisfactorily may differ from mine, or
from others, and some people are extremely easily satisfied.
I've challenged Jerry to put up or shut up many times in the past, and he's
repeatedly refused to walk the walk. I've even offered to pay his
expenses, plus given him a chance to win several thousand dollars. But this
is not about whether his methods "work," it's how well they work (results!
results! results!) when compared to other methods (results! results!
results!), e.g., traditional methods, the e-collar, etc. And not only how
well they work, but how reliable they are, how fast they can achieve
lasting results, etc.
There's no better way to convince someone like you, IMO, than to SHOW you,
up close and personal, how wrong you are about Jerry and his "methods," and
I'm still willing to take the time (very valuable time, too!) needed to do
just that, plus pay for Jerry's expenses, plus give him a chance to win
several thousand dollars. All on a neutral court. Details will be provided
upon request.
Moreover, a half-dozen dogs would receive a reprieve from their current
death sentences.
And all you have to do is convince Jerry to come out of his dingy little
rat hole long enough to walk the walk.
Or, to make a complete ass out of himself.
And I'm willing to pay his expenses and wager several thousand dollars that
it's the latter.
One way or the other, the truth would finally be told.
PS: Yes, you can even have the film rights! Think of all the money *that*
would make you and Jerry! Maybe HBO would take on the project?
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
WardM...@animail.net
lying dog abusing punk thug coward mental case,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> lucy...@claque.net wrote in
> news:1121628829.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> [reams of repetititive gibberish snipped to spare the senses]
> >> I.e., walk the walk.
> >
> > The ball is in your field, Handsome Jack.
PROBLEMO. tommy can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE.
> >Prove that Jerry is wrong.
This AIN'T abHOWET JERRY. This is abHOWET tommy and
his mentally ill pals who PREFER to jerk choke shock
crate bribe intimidate mutilate and MURDER innocent
critters like the VERY LONG LIST of DEAD DOGS we've
enterTRAINED TO DEATH RIGHT HERE under the guidance
of tommy and his punk thug coward mental case pals
who can't even jerk and choke a Papillion enough
using their pronged spiked pinch choke collars to
break DOMINANCE PISSIN as per professora melanie
and her dog Skeeter or tara o. aka tee's DOMINANCE
PISSIN Boxer Rescue Dog who'll be RETURNED if she
can't SHOCK IT ENOUGH to make IT NOT FEAR her other
dog to stop him from PISSIN ON HER <{); ~ ) >
> No, Lucy, the ball isn't in my "field," or even my court.
THAT'S CORRECT, tommy. You and your punk thug coward
mental case pals haven't successfully train ANY dog
EVER, here or anywhere else, tommy. You can't even
train your own SELECTIVELY BRED for generation after
generations of FIELD BRED HUNTIN dogs to HUNT withHOWE
HURTIN and INTIMDIATING them <{); ~ ) >
> It's in Jerry's.
You've been DISCREDITED since Robert Crim and laura
arlove MURDERED THEIR OWN DEAD DOGS according to
your GUIDANCE JUST LIKE HOWE tara o. aka tee done
to her own DEAD DOG Summer on accHOWENT of they
COULDN'T HURT and INTIDMIATE their dogs ENOUGH to
make the NOT FEAR GETTIN HURT someMOORE, REMEMBER
tommy? That's QUITE a RECORD your METHODS got, eh
tommy?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!
> Many regulars
You mean HOWER Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Punk
Thug Cowards and ACTIVE ACUTE LONG TERM INCURABLE
MENTAL CASES like yourself, tommy <{); ~ ) >
> have already taken the time to present to you
> (sometimes in excrutiatingly fine detail) all
> of Jerry's history here, rebutted your claims,
> point by point, etc.,
Yeah, the ONLY PROBLEM is they GOT PROBLEM DOGS
whom they JERK CHOKE SHOCK BRIBE CRATE MUTILATE
INTIMIDATE and MURDER and LIE abHOWET it, JUST
LIKE HOWE YOU TAUGHT THEM.
REMEMBER tommy?
> and it's quite obvious now that no amount of
> words written here (not even Jerry's own!) is
> ever going to convince someone like you that
> Jerry is a kook and a shyster, so, as I said
> in a previous post,
You mean on accHOWENT of HE has IDENTIFIED
EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED you and your punk
thug coward mental case pals, tommy?
> I'm no longer going to try.
You MIGHT try QUOTING The Amazing Puppy Wizard
FAILURES, as REPORTED RIGHT HERE, tommy ---> <---.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAHAA!!!
THERE AIN'T NONE, you freakin simpleton.
ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Students ALL
OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS using The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual <{): ~ ) >
JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy done.
> I can recognize a brick wall when I see one.
DUH? You HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs, tommy.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD
REPORT CURING ALL temperament and behavior problems
NEARLY INSTANTLY withHOWET HURTIN their dogs, tommy.
> As far as Jerry being "right" or "wrong" goes,
IN FACT, tommy, The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT CURING ALL
temperament and behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY
simply BY DOIN EXXXACTLY OPPOSITE of HOWE you do it.
> I have never said that everything Jerry claims here is wrong.
BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!
YOUR "OPINION" IS AS WORTHLESS AS YOUR "WORD", tommy.
You're a lying dog abusing anonymHOWES punk thug coward.
> Much of it will indeed "work" (and it was "working"
> for other trainers/owners before Jerry was even born),
That so? CITES PLEASE, tommy?
THERE AIN'T NO OTHER TRAINERS USING The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method, tommy, otherWIZE
The Amazing Puppy Wizard would BE HIM, tommy.
HE AIN'T any other trainer on accHOWETN of THERE AIN'T
NO OTHER trainer who's STUDENTS CONSISISTENTLY REPORT
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for ALL temperament
and behavior problems, tommy.
OtheWIZE, you wouldn't NEED to HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER
dogs as your own POSTED CASE HISTORY SEZ under your alias
of DOGMAN.
> provided the trainer/owner puts in the time, etc.,
NEARLY INSTANTLY is NOT "PUTTING IN THE TIME", tommy.
> and doesn't expect to end up with Lassie or Rin Tin Tin.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> It's quite possible to "train" a dog without
> using any formal training-method whatsoever,
You mean, like your koehler book teaches, tommy?
> and the vast majority of dogs still somehow become
> satisfactorily trained in spite of their owners.
Well tommy, the CASE HISTORIES we got RIGHT HERE
tell the tail, eh tommy?
> Yes, your definition of satisfactorily may differ from mine,
Yeah, but you're a lyin dog abusing punk thug coward mental case.
REMEMBER tommy?
> or from others,
Pssst? Hey tommy? The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students ALL
OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT CURING ALL temperament
and behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY, JUST LIKE
HOWE Lucy done, tommy.
YOU CALL THEM LIARS and their posts FORGERIES.
You told Disciple Paulie and Marty B they'd NEED
to HURT their dogs MOORE than they LIKED to break
coprophagia. THEN YOU CALLED THEM LIARS when they
both reported they'd CURED their dog's coprophagia
in just a couple moments DOIN EXXXACTLY OPPOSITE
of HOWE you told them they should do to their dogs.
REMEMBER tommy?
> and some people are extremely easily satisfied.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD
REPORT CURING ALL temperament and behavior problems
NEARLY INSTANTLY, JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy done, tommy.
You can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE, tommy.
You and your punk thug coward mental case pals have
been IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED as liars
cowards and active acute long term incurable mental
cases who HURT INTIMIDATAE and MURDER dogs on accHOWENT
of THAT'S WHAT YOU PREFER, tommy, on accHOWENT of you're
a dog abusin mental case, tommy. REMEMBER? <{); ~ ) >
> I've challenged Jerry to put up or shut up many times in the past,
THIS AIN'T abHOWET The Amazing Puppy Wizard, tommy.
You're talkin to Lucy, WON of HIS 100% 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
FROM ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD WHO'VE REPORTED
CURING ALL temperament and behavior problems NEARLY
INSTANTLY, JUST LIKE HOWE ALL THE REST have done, tommy.
> and he's repeatedly refused to walk the walk.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard DON'T PLAY GAMES with
liars dog abusers cowards and mental cases, tommy.
> I've even offered to pay his expenses, plus given
> him a chance to win several thousand dollars.
BWEEEEEEEHAHAHHAHAHHAAA!!!
PROBLEMO, tommy. You're a ANONYMHOWES LYING DOG
ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASE who HURTS
INTIMDIATES and MURDERS innocent DEAD DOGS like
HOWE chrisman dinan done to his DEAD DOG Usal
thanks to followin your ADVICE, REMEMBER tommy?
> But this is not about whether his methods "work,"
RIGHT. THAT'S BEEN PROVEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN,
REMEMBER, tommy? ASK LUCY if you AIN'T SHORE.
> it's how well they work (results! results! results!)
HOWE abHOWET 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESS according to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT
CURING ALL temperament and behavior problems
NEARLY INSTANTLY, JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy done, tommy.
YOU CALL THEM LIARS JUST LIKE HOWE you done Disciple
Paul and Marty be when they made YOU EAT SHIT over
a couple cases of coprophagia, REMEMBER tommy?
BWEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAA!!
> when compared to other methods (results! results! results!),
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Students ALL
OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT CURING ALL
temperament and behavior problems NEARLY
INSTANTLY, JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy done, tommy.
> e.g., traditional methods, the e-collar, etc.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAA!!!
> And not only how well they work, but how reliable
> they are, how fast they can achieve lasting results, etc.
You mean, LIKE DEATH, tommy?
We're DONE playin grabbass with lyin dog abusing mental cases
like yourself, tommy. You can't post here abHOWETS nodoGGamenedMOORE.
> There's no better way to convince someone like you,
> IMO, than to SHOW you, up close and personal, how
> wrong you are about Jerry and his "methods,"
PROBLEMO, tommy. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students ALL
OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD CURE ALL temperament
and behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY, JUST LIKE
HOWE Lucy done, tommy.
THEY DON'T NEED TO LEARN HOWE TO HURT THEIR DOGS, tommy.
> and I'm still willing to take the time (very valuable
> time, too!) needed to do just that, plus pay for Jerry's
> expenses, plus give him a chance to win several thousand
> dollars.
BWEEEEEAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
THAT'D MAKE The Amazing Puppy Wizard a party to TORTURE, tommy.
> All on a neutral court.
THIS IS The Amazing Puppy Wizard's NEUTRAL COURT, tommy.
You've been FHOWEND GUILTY of HURTING INTIMDATING and
MURDERING dogs and LYING abHOWET IT. Ask Robert Crim.
Ask laura arlov. Ask purple pony. Ask jls. THEY ALL
GOT DEAD DOGS by followin your ADVICE, tommy.
THEN you told them they DIDN'T HURT THEIR DOGS ENOUGH.
> Details will be provided upon request.
ADIOS, tommy. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
LL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT CURING ALL
temperament and behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY,
JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy done, tommy.
THERE AIN'T NUTHIN ELSE FOR YOU TO DO HERE other
than EMBARRASS YOURSELF someMOORE, like HOWE you
BEEN DOIN for five years, you flunkie.
> Moreover, a half-dozen dogs would receive a
> reprieve from their current death sentences.
Those SHELTERS and RESCUES PREFER TO HURT DOGS,
tommy. THAT'S HOWE THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY, tommy.
> And all you have to do is convince Jerry to come
> out of his dingy little rat hole long enough to
> walk the walk.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFULY TRAINS ALL handlers and ALL dogs and ALL
behavior / temperament problems ALL OVER The WHOWEL
WILD WORLD from settin right here, stark ravin nekkid.
NEARLY INSTANTLY, JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy done, tommy.
> Or, to make a complete ass out of himself.
Psst? HOWE abHOWET ALL THEM DEAD DOGS you've
enterTRAINED TO DEATH RIGHT HERE, tommy?
> And I'm willing to pay his expenses and wager
> several thousand dollars that it's the latter.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard CANNOT support your
efforts to PROVE that SHOCKING CHOKING and
MURDERING dogs is MOORE PERMENANTELY EFFFECTIVE
than NOT HURTING dogs and trainin them to 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS, and FOR FREE,
to boot.
> One way or the other, the truth would finally be told.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!! NOT HERE, tommy. NOT
by you and your mentally ill lying dog abusing punk
thug coward mental cases, tommy.
> PS: Yes, you can even have the film rights!
NO. These are COPYRIGHTED forums, tommy. EVERY
THING IS PUPPERTY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Forums and SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS and HUMAN
BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES, tommy <{); ~ ) >
> Think of all the money *that* would make you and Jerry!
COPYRIGHTED, tommy.
> Maybe HBO would take on the project?
Maybe CRIMINAL COURTS of JUSTICE will
TAKE ON the PROJECT and throw your
stinkin lyin dog abusin arse in jail
for CRIMINAL INSANITY, eh tommy?
LET'S DO YOUR TRIAL IN FRONT OF A CRIMINAL
COURT, JUDGE and JURY. We'll issue the judge
and jurors shock collars tuned to the same
frequencies your dog and YOUR OWN SHOCK collar
are tuned to, and we'll DEMONSTRATE HOWER
METHODS TOGETHER, IN CRIMINAL COURTS, with
the cameras runnin... eh tommy?
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
HOWEDY Robin,
Robin wrote:
> >
> > Naaah, The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just BAITING these lying
> > dog abusing punk thug coward mental cases again <{); ~ ) >
> >
>
> Ok, I want you to put on your honesty and strength hat
You mean, The Amazing Puppy Wizard's SPELLIN cloch <{); ~ ) >
It'll be a relief gettin HOWET from under HIS Cockatoo and
horse trainin sombrero...
> (similar to that man who wrote you recently apologizing
> for being hasty in his decision about you).
THAT was a twenty year veteran K-9 Recruiter for the RAF.
> Do you find the baiting productive to your goals?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's OBJECTIVE is to IDENTIFY
EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT these lying dog abusing punk
thug cowards who'll DO and SAY ANY THING to DEFEND
their alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER
dogs.
> And I'll throw in my two cents here, dear Jerry, a proposal:
> give it a trial period, perhaps a month or so, by discontinuing
> your 'baiting' responses, and just let the 'success' feedback,
> such as mine and the many others, SPEAK FOR ITSELF. It will
> speak volumes.
No. These MENTAL CASES will DENY EVERY THING. THEY CALL YOU
NAMES for REPRORTIN YOUR SUCCESS, JUST LIKE HOWE they done
Lucy, marilyn, Robert Crim, Lisa B, Paul B, Marty B, Nevyn,
Amanda, Juanita, Lynn aka roudygrey, Aimee, and ALL The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL NON VIOLENT TRAINERS who've EVER posted here
abHOWETS.
THEY CALL THEM LIARS and their posts FORGERIES by The
Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) > as they CONtinue to
HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER their own dogs.
This has been their method of operation since the WWW was
invented by V.P. Al Gore. Their ONLY puporse is to DEFEND
what they've ALWAYS done: JERK CHOKE SHOCK BRIBE CRATE and
MURDER dogs and BLAME THE DOG for not bein trainable and
LIE abHOWET it <{); ~ ) >
> > > Keep this out of the health groups, 'kay?
LIKE THAT, Robin. That's matty. His dog Rocky is
DYIN from PSYCHOGENIC SEIZURES <{); ~ ) >
matty would ENJOY your company on his seizure dog list.
> > Dogs DIE from separation anXXXIHOWESNESS,
> You're so right, Jerry, that dogs AND humans,
> often die from illness and disease originating
> from stress and trauma.
Yeah. If that's what it takes, The Amazing Puppy Wizard
is willing to do that too. It's all the same same to HIM.
> Whoa - we just had a sizeable earthquake
Oooops!
> (I'm in so. Calif).
That's curiHOWES, ain't it?
When you reported CURING your dog's separation
anXXXIHOWESNESS, malinda called you some vile
names and sez you and Lucy are from STUPIDLAND.
> Everything seems to be ok now.
I wouldn't think so. That's scary stuff.
> > and continue to rely on other methods like JUST
> > TELLIN THE DOG "NO!" on accHOWENT of it INCREASES
> > anXXXIHOWESNESS and MISTRUST <{);~ ) >
>
> That's an important thing to remember. I almost never
> have a reason to say "no" to Dahli, but I won't do that
> anymore.
Good. HOWER DOG LOVERS can't seem to figger HOWE to
train their dogs withHOWET conflicting and punishing
and physically restraining them NO MATTER HOWE MANY
PEOPLE in HOWEver many different ways TOLD THEM HOWE
THEY DONE IT EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE,
to boot <{); ~ ) >
> I think I say it because I'M scared when she does
> something suddenly that will hurt her,
RIGHT. THAT'S HOWE HOWER DOG LOVERS JUSTIFY SHOCKING
CHOKING and MURDERING dogs <{); ~ ) >
> such as eating something off the street.
PRAISE IN ADVANCE WORKS as well as distraction and
praise. HOWEver, these MENTAL CASES deny the facts
and TRY to CONfHOWEND the METHOD by tellin folks
to DISTRACT and REWARD the dog, and THAT REINFORCES
the BAD BEHAIVORS. YOU CANNOT REWARD A BEHAVIOR THAT
AIN'T BEING THOUGHT OF... and PUNISHMENT will COMPELL
the dog to DO EXXXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you want.
THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS EAT POISON soon as the OVER
CON-TROLLING abuser turns his back, like perry aka
bentcajungirl's DEAD DOG Maggie <{): ~ ( >
> In that situation, what should I be doing instead?
PRAISE HER. LIKE THIS:
>"LeeCharlesKelley" kelleymet...@aol.com wrote:
> So if it's silly, and if praise really works for the
> reasons you *think* it does, why did it work with
> the chicken breast example?
Coincidence.
-----------------------------
Re: Your Training Modality is Driving Your Dogs Crazy
Leah:>>Is there something wrong with being curious?
Morrison:>You're not curious, Leah. IMO, you're just wishy-washy.
Kelley: I don't have the same history that you seem to have with
Leah, but I hardly think being open to exploring new ideas qualifies as
being "wishy-washy". To me it shows intelligence. But then,
from what I've seen, you've demonstrated a singular kind of black-
and-white mentality and a highly ignorant closed-mindedness.
Morrison:>You keep thinking that there's some "new" method
out there that will VOILA!, magically transform you into a
great trainer, and overnight, too.
>It just doesn't work that way.
Kelley: Actually, that's *exactly* how it worked with me.
Within the first day of using these techniques I went from
becoming a run-of-the-mill dog trainer to being pretty damn
good, if I do say so myself, and all simply by testing the
techniques, just to see if they worked.
I've said from the beginning that if I can get the kind of
amazing results I do when I'm not really a dog trainer at
heart, but a writer, then someone who's really a dog trainer
at heart would become a far better trainer than I am instantly,
just by using these methods.
Somewhere along the line, however, I discovered a dirty little
secret about the mentality of most dog trainers: they only
*became* trainers because they liked the feeling of power and
control it gave them. If that's the case with you, then you
definitely wouldn't like natural dog training because it
ultimately teaches a dog how to control his own behavior.
In fact in some ways, it forces you to turn your need for
control over to the dog because the method only works when
you put your trust in a dog's natural instincts instead of
fighting against them all the time.
That's because when you put yourself in alignment with a dog's
instincts, the dog will naturally obey you under any and all
circumstances because group harmony and cooperation, when
properly nurtured, are the most fundamental aspects of a dog's
nature.
I came across the following quote recently, and though I have
no idea who Edward Hoagland is, I think what he says here speaks
volumes: "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try
to train him to be semi-human.
The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of
becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland
Leah:>>This "praise the dog when he misbehaves" thing keeps
coming up, and nobody has been able to explain it to me.
Morrison:>That's because no one can.
Actually, Jerry Howe explains it pretty well.
And as for the incident I related where I praised my
dog when he found a juicy chicken breast and my praise
caused him to drop it, and subsequently got him to stop
scavenging altogether, merely by praising him everytime
he found something, the answer is pretty clear.
He didn't pick up that chicken breast because he was hungry,
he did it because he was looking for something to do that
would satisfy an inner emotional need, relating to his instincts. When
I praised him, suddenly and very enthusiastically, he
dropped the chicken breast because the praise provided him
with more emotional satisfaction than the chicken breast
did at that particular moment.
You could look at this as being an example of pure operant
conditioning, if you like (though you'd be wrong), but it
would still mean that you would have to give up your beliefs
about what praise is and how and why it works, and you don't
strike me as someone who's capable of even *questioning* your
beliefs, let alone capable of giving them up.
Morrison:>every single method out there is based on CC
and/or OC. That's a fact.
No, it's not a fact. The only reason it seems factual to
you is because the basic premise of behavioral science is
tautological in nature (and also because, IMO, you have a
tiny mind).
In my estimation it's more likely that there are little
green men on Mars than that what you think is operant
conditioning is what's really taking place when a dog
learns *anything*.
Dogs do not learn things by association or by repetition or by
trial and error, but through their emotions, pure and simple.
Even Pavlov said: "Positive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic
significance at a given moment, serve as the reinforcement."
Of course, even Pavlov got it wrong on the most basic level,
since there really is no such thing as a reinforcement, but
that's another story for another day.
---------------------------
> > The alpha theory is INVALID.
> Is that right? Interesting.
INDEEDY. There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as DOMINANCE.
So called dominance is LEARNED by being ABUSED.
ALL VIOLENCE IS LEARNED according to recent studies
at Harvard and UCLA.
> > > In fact, no dog!
>
> > She's comfortable...
> >
> > > I got worried, looking all over for her.
> >
> > Perhaps you're gettin a little OCD?
>
> LOL. No question. I better pull out the cans.
>
> > > I found her asleep (yes, asleep!!!!) on a pile of
> > > clothing that was on the floor in my second bedroom.
> >
> > Is she not allHOWED in there?
>
> She's allowed in there.
>
> > JUST LIKE KIDS <{); ~ ) > And THAT'S where we're
> > goin NEXT, Robin, to PROVE it's the same same for
> > dogs as the same same for kids,
>
> None of my business, but curious - do you have kids?
NONE that HE'S been FHOWEND in court to have sired.
HOWEver, The Amazing Puppy Wizard's METHODS WORK just
as well for kids as they have for your own doggy, as
evidenced by Amanda's POSTED CASE HISTORY.
> > O.K., but you may want to do The Technique four
> > times to make SHORE it's installed fully pryor
> > to EXXXTRAPOLATING it to the next "environment"
>
> Let me tell you something that happened last night,
> and I wasn't sure what to do. When I was preparing
> to leave the house, I first went to Dahli and told
> her how much I love her, she's such a good girl, that
> I'm going to be gone for just a short while and will
> then come back for her, etc., etc.
HOWER DOG LOVERS would tell you THAT will INCREASE
her anXXXIHOWESNESS. HOWEver, WE KNOW BETTER, don't
we. Pavlov's last student Sam Corson PROVED the same
same same same at UofOH. Might wanna ask professor
SCRUFF SHAKE dermer HOWE COME he never learned abHOWET
that, Robin. Well, we KNOW he DID LEARN IT, but he
PREFERS to HURT and INTIMIDATE dogs as taught by his
mentor, dr. sidman <{); ~ ) >, who opposite of Corson,
relies on PAIN FEAR FORCE and INTIMIDATION instead of
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE TRUST and RESPECT <{); ~ ) >
> I then went to her hairbrush (the inanimate object I
> use) a couple of feet away to start saying the same
> thing to the brush, when Dahli got up and walked to
> the opposite end of the house.
She seen you fixin to say Adios so she went to bed.
> So here I was with a hairbrush in hand ready to talk
> to it, but no one was there to listen. LOL!!!
IOW, the METHOD WORKED before you finished it today,
just as it did the other day when she FELL ASLEEP.
Perhaps she was just feigning sleep, to avoid facin
the reality of the situation (you fixin to leave).
Same same for goin to the back of the HOWES.
> What did I do? I walked half way between where I was
> and she was and spoke LOUDLY to the brush. LOL.
No need to, she got the message.
> You know, Jerry, it's a good thing this technique worked,
> because otherwise, I would forever more feel like an idiot :).
YEAH, likeWIZE.
PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME HOWER DOG LOVERS
are AFRAID to PRAISE BAD BEHAVIORS, Robin?
WE KNOW PRAISE and BRIEF NON PHYSCIAL DISTRACTION
INSTANTLY followed by PROLONGED NON PHYSICAL PRAISE
will EXXXTINGUISH ALL undesirable behaviors. BUT IT
AIN'T GONNA WORK if we intermittently HURT BRIBE and
INTIMDIATE HOWER dogs and children, TO KEEP THEM SAFE:
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval
of their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon.
> So, what should I do today if that happens (she
> walks out of the room when I start to talk to
> the brush)?
THAT MEANS she KNOWS you're leavin and she's FINE with it.
> > Ask them punks HOWE COME they'd DENY your dog
>
> and more importantly, THEIR dog
Ahhh, THAT'S THE PROBLEM, Robin. EVERY THING these
MENTAL CASES have DONE to their dogs has CAUSED ALL
their dog's temperament and behavior problems and
MOST of their heelth DIS-EASES <{); ~ ) >
THEY CANNOT RECONCILE THOSE FACTS, Robin, so they
DENY and DEFEND what they do to HOWER BEST DOGS.
> > peace heelth and a sense of well being, just so
> > they can MAKE MONEY off
>
> what I see here are a few people who would deny a
> dog's chance for peace, health and sense of well
> being either because it's more important for them
> to be right, or because they're blinded by their
> anger toward you;
NO. The Amazing Puppy Wizard AIN'T the PROBLEM. This
war has been conducted ever since Cain and Able. It's
THE SAME WAR that Pharoah fought with Moses, that Hitler
fought with the WHOWEL Wild World... NUTHIN'S CHANGED,
EXXXCEPT their uniforms <{): ~ ( >
These LYING DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES have CONSPIRED
FOR YEARS to DEFEND their alleged RIGHT to HURT
INTIMDIATE BRIBE CRATE and MURDER HOWER BEST DOGS.
> that they discredit your methods for those seeking
> advice even in the face of positive testimonials posted.
THEY CALLED YOU STUPID, and WORSE, for REPORTING you
CURED your elderly dog's separation anXXXIHOWESNESS,
Robin.
They KILLFILED marilyn FOR POSTING THE SAME REPORT:
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
As they done to Hoku:
From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo
Aloha Jerry,
Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.
Your program is awesome, but you already
know that. Keep up the good work!
Hoku
==================
"Hoku Beltz" <h...@rsphawaii.com> wrote in message
news:SN2k9.45447$V7.10...@twister.socal.rr.com...
Aloha Sunny,
Just follow the training program to the letter, no matter how
insignificant some of the step seem to be and your pupy will
be a very well behaved dog in a few days.
I would seriously consider backing out of the training classes
as they will conflict with the Wit's End principles.
I went the training route first, and still had problems until I
found Wits' End. Now I have two "new and improved" dogs.
You won't be dissapointed if you follow the program.
Good luck,
Hoku
==================
And this WON don't post here abHOWETS noMOORE
on accHOWENT of HE WENT INSANE when he learned
he was IN FACT, CONTRIBUTING to and EXXXACERBATING
the "shelter dog problem" by his training beliefs:
From: Chris Williams (k9ap...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
Date: 2002-03-26 08:16:19 PST
Engrossing account, Anthony. Our best to Angel
and your family.
A friend, who socializes the kittens I've taken
from a feral cat colony, is using the DDR.
She reports far fewer panic problems than
she's had before.
============================
Chris Williams writes:
"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"
====================
> This should be about the dog,
THIS IS abHOWET MENTALLY ILL LYING DOG ABUSING MENTAL
CASES who'll DO and SAY ANY THING to DEFEND their alleged
RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER HOWER BEST DOGS.
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he
enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by
wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who
perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then? The love and
hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise
from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct
the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
permission from His FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
Force training JERRYIZES dogs and GETS THEM DEAD.
> not about the personalities.
These MENTAL CASES will NEVER stop hurting dogs.
> I find this practice heinous.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ they can't live in
HOWER society, Robin. You'll NOTICE it's ONLY the
DOG LOVERS who HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER DOGS,
Robin. People who DON'T LIKE DOGS LEAVE THEM for
the DOG LOVERS to MURDER for them.
> > Subject: Public Apology - Mr Howe - The Amazing Puppy Wizard
> >
> > Public Apology - Mr Howe
> >
> > Date: 2004-06-03 18:17:59 PST
> >
>
> This letter may be the most powerful testimonial
> you've received yet,
Well, it's right up there with all the other TESTIMONIALS
to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Student's REPORTS, like YOUR OWN, and these:
From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm.
My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.
Sorry that slipped my mind.
I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.
Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.
Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.
Seemed he learned through osmosis.
Nice side benefit there.
It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST
I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.
I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".
Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).
The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point at the
mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".
That made him afraid to relieve himself in the house
or in front of me.
After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.
When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".
This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...
Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.
Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.
You've been a blessing to all of us.
AIMEE
===================
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com):
I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.
I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.
I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.
My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.
For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!
I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be left home alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.
Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better. We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.
For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID
NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.
We simply eliminated the nagging and the
acting out to get NEGATIVE attention from
one another since we weren't getting
the POSITIVE attention we wanted.
So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS
METHODS WORK.
It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's alot
of blame that we have to accept, but once we
realize that we've caused these problems to
arise, we can strive to make things better.
AIMEE
=================
> I was very impressed with this man for publicly apologizing
> to you on this very hostile newsgroup, and that he was hasty
> in his decision about your method.
Well, H1R3Z is a professional military K-9 recruiter
for The Queen's RAF. On first glance He didn't agree
with the STUFF The Amazing Puppy Wizard teaches on
accHOWENT of it was OPPOSITE of HOWE he learned to
train dogs in the service.
HOWEver, he SEEN the difference and realized he'd been
overlookin THE BEST RECRUITS on accHOWENT of the military
testing critteria is BACKWARDS, to match their training
methods <{); ~ ) > and IN FACT, instead of selecting and
training HOWER BEST DOGS, they've been selecting and
training the LEAST COMPETENT, MOST FEARFUL dogs, thinkin
they was gettin OBEDIENCE and FEARLESSNESS <{); ~ ) >
> This man is a cut above most,
INDEED, as The Amazing Puppy Wizard EXXXPECTS when
HE talks business with military K-9 handlers. The
FACT that CORRECTING a dog for "pissin on a tent
post" in base camp MIGHT make him lead his handler
into a sniper or booby trap MAKES SENSE to them,
ESPECIALLY when they REALIZE THAT'S EXXXACTLY what
happend TO SOME OF THEIR DEAD COMRADS.
> in my estimation, whatever that's worth.
IT AIN'T WORTH NUTHIN TO A LYING DOG ABUSING NAZI, Robin.
> I hope this letter will encourage others to be
> open to your methods, whether they like you or not.
When HOWER dog abusers FINALLY REALIZE The Amazing
Puppy Wizard was RIGHT, they SELDOM report it here,
they just GO AWAY, like disciple chris done, showin
the true COWARDICE behind the alphalpha mentality.
> This is what I was referring to above,
RIGHT. HOWEver Robin, it's MEANINGLESS to these
CONSPIRATORS, Robin. They're NAZIS, not real human
beings. They DO NOT POSSESS the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit
the cunning of the domestic puppy dog EVEN AFTER all
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students ALL OVER the WHOWEL WILD WORLD
told them HOWE they done it EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
and FOR FREE, too boot <{); ~ ) >
> to let letters such as these, speak for themselves
HOWER DOGS LOVERS CALL THEM LIARS AND THEIR POSTS FORGERIES.
THEN they COMPLAIN that The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Posts
are TOO LONG, that they take up too much bandwidth and
The Amazing Puppy Wizard is creating HARDSHIP for folks
who got to PAY for their downloads...
> without your baiting stuff.
You don't REALLY EXXXPECT these DOG LOVERS to change their spots?
EVERY THING of importance to them IS VESTED IN PROVING The Amazing
Puppy Wizard is A LIAR and HIS METHODS DON'T WORK, in order to
DEFEND their RIGHT to HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER DOGS.
> > > that the very people that so dislike you here are
> > > responsible for making me take the time to delve
> > > deeper into all the trash & see What you are really
> > > like.
INDEEDY. HOWEver, that ONLY works with a small percentage
of readers, as HOWER DOG LOVERS are well aware. THAT'S
HOWE COME they WARN folks like yourself to KILLFILE The
Amazing Puppy Wizard and HIS SOCK PUPPETS, like yourself,
Robin.
> > > Their eagerness to 'pounce' on any newcomer
> > > with an opinion of their own has caused me to
> > > see the 'reality' here.
INDEEDY. HOWEver, it takes a lotta readin to UNDERSTAND
what's really goin on on accHOWENT of NO WON WOULD BELIEVE
THE TRUTH UNLESS it was DOCUMENTED in the CASE HISTORIES
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's voluminHOWES Archives right
here <{); ~ ) >
> You gotta like this guy.
INDEEDY. The Amazing Puppy Wizard has been eagerly
awaiting his return to continue HOWER discussions
of military K-9 trainin, on accHOWENT of THAT'S
the next TARGET of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Gihad
on VIOLENCE FEAR FORCE INDTIMIDATION and MURDERIN
dogs, thanks to ordinary training methods <{); ~ ) >
> > > Killfile me also if that makes you all happy,
> > > but I will not, ever, be railroaded by people
> > > who lack enough intellect to answer my posts
> > > sensibly, without insults & unneccessary
> > > criticisms, JUST because of whom I choose
> > > to talk to.
AnyWON who DOESN'T HURT DOGS to train them is
blacklisted here abHOWETS. LIKE THIS:
"Leprechaun" <Leprech...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:m01Hc.20882$uK.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to
Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
get real) and in just over one hour of working
with the dog, he was coming on command
(not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
walking with us on a loose lead.
His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!
> and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.
You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.
<<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>
Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida
-----------------------
"Zack Pellers" <ZackPell...@GUESSWHERE.cc>
wrote in message
dlin...@towson.edu (Derek) wrote in news:
697700b8.0405202039.5c737...@posting.google.com:
Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.
http://www.DoggyDoRight.com
You can start by downloading the free training manual
available on the site above. I used it on my 4 year old
Fila Brasileiro.
When I first brought him home from rescue, he was
similar to the way you decribed your dog. After using
Mr. Howe's training method, the dog was cured within
72 hours.
-Jack
==============
> Okay. Now I want to marry him :)
The Amazing Puppy Wizard will advise you should HE hear from H..
> Robin
Disciple Paulie Sez: "No One Understands How Wits End
Training Really Works, They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method That
Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation Is Built
On Trust And Understanding."
Disciple Paulie Writes:
I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and
say "good dog" sincerely at the end of the
request and I bet you'll find your dog thinking
then responding everytime.
A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule
applies to every aspect of the relationship with
your dog.
Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.
Paul.
========================
"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3c317fe4.03010...@posting.google.com...
> I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
> dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
> I do not know what started the problem but he came
> aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
> snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
> and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
> ad I took him with me everywhere.
> At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
> Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
> clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
> it was not working on his aggression problem.
> I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
> trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
> They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
> and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
> suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
> working as he was becoming more aggressive.
> I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph.D. 400 miles
> away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
> on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
> use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
> I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
> ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE > LEASH",
> ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
> University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they
> said he had fear aggression, punishment would not
> work, use the gentle leader and when out walking
> and he got stressed have the people stop until he
> could get in control using treats,and work on
> clicker training.
> At that point I knew more about clicker training and using the
> gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he would
> not come when I called him and would run away when I tried
> to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the neighborhood
> as we had become that "mean dog and women who hasn't
> trained her dog"
> I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
> were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two were
> so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one said
> I should give up on him and kill him but they would say
> "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
> responsible for him."
You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.
> As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
> going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
> Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
> Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
> He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
> not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
> The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
> I had been working for 18 month!
> Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
> from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
> I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
> blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
> can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
> I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
> -the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
> looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
> on by.
> When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
> me like "you must be out of your mind"
> The results can make a believer!!!
> Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
> Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
> in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
> He just seemed to not notice any one.
> When people talked to him or ask his name he would
> look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
> I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
> enjoy life out in public.
> If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
> was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
> Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
> toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
> My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
> dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
> out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
> I know most people would have given up on him a long time
> ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
> but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
> I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.
We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!
I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.
I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away- - can you just see
me yelling at people to stop on the street until I get
his attention with treats.
They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
----------------------------------
From: BNTDO...@aol.com To:
jho...@bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always Be Given
The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL GUILTY For Having
An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."
Dear Jerry,
It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them from me
that it does work.
Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated
putting him down are impressed with him.
I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could do
his nails. All 4 feet.
My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
pleased.
He even tried to kiss a child the other day.
Major break through.
This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me again
without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.
So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training
is:
Do No Harm.
The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first
rule.
Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was
diagnosed aggressive and he is going to stay alive and by my
side where he belongs.
Thank you so much. Kay
========================
From: <BNTDO...@aol.com> To: <jho...@bellsouth.net> Sent:
Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: Wits end Training
> Hi Jerry, Send the post to whom ever you wish to. Believe me
> I will keep you updated. I got to tell you His amazing
> progress almost makes me cry.
> Kay Pierce
From: <BNTDO...@aol.com> To: <jho...@bellsouth.net> Sent:
Monday, May 13, 2002 7:54 PM Suject: Making Progress
> Hello Jerry, Hunter and I started working the recall and
> family pack exercise today. On leash and in the house he has
> a perfect recall.
> And I think he really started to relax and enjoy himself I
> swear he was laughing.
> I had taught him to go to the heel position when he comes
> to me years ago. And over the past few months I have had to
> tell him to go there. Today he flew into the heel position
> each and every time without me saying a word to him about
> it.
> He has never bounced like that before.
> I trained him using conventional methods with a choker and
> pinch collar. Over the past few days we have been using his
> regular collar. I can tell that he enjoys it more.
> As I mentioned before I am a dog trainer and when I trained
> my latest dog I used all positive reinforcements techniques.
> When I trained for that I had been amazed at the results.
> Your method takes positive training to the next level and
> should really be used by all trainers who call themselves
> trainers.
> My Hunter is concentrating on me and not on the treat he
> thinks he wants. My other dog wants treats before she'll do
> anything.
> As soon as I get Hunter straightened out she's next.
> Thank you so much,
> Kay Pierce
===============
"Nevyn" <greatd...@badmama.com.au> wrote in message
news:10616959...@grimiore.conceptual.net.au...
HOWEDY Group,
Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using JERRY'S MANUAL
1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking, aggressive, pulled
on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought between
each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual, they were calm,
friends, my companions.
2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the girls had -NO
PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I dropped him by their
noses.
3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping at the fence
all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S MANUAL they were CALMED
AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!
Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND WELCOMED HIM WITH NO
WUCKAS !
4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH - lock him in a
box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS AND HES NEVER DONE IT
SINCE!
5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT - HAD TO BE FED WITH A
BUCKET ON A STICK - ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS FOR SALE !
Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their hairs
coloured up amazingly.
6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER BALL! She carried it
around all day and night - 3 DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now
DROPS it when u ASK her to!
BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!
Nevyn
From: Eric To: ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002
Subject: just checking in..
Jerry!
You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago regarding
submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you know he's doing
great- he was "cured" in about 2 days using your techniques!
He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"! Once I
stopped thinking like a human and got inside his head, I can
teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter of minutes. Makes me
look like an expert dog-trainer.
I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed 'em,
and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside their
heads and teach them to teach themselves how to be good dogs!
Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...
Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain
rather than beating ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.
I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone who beat MY
ass lol!
Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes out
there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.
A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows any
more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it (pun
intended)... Too cool....
Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!
Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard
==========================
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> dogsnuts wrote:
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry. He has millions of
> people aleady reading his posts and watching him extract his
> soggy foot out of his mouth! Out of these MILLIONS, I've
> only seen 2 naive childs come forward and actually believe
> in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since I
freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough of
the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the posts
of Marylin Rammell to believe and use it. This naive child
would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marylin for
putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging
idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe
we would not have had to hold the head of a really magnificent
animal in our arms while he was given the needle and having to
hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into
good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide
behind fake names are more honest than people that use their
real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the
equal or better than those that have studied and lived by
their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marylin Rammell are going to
just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you
act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don't really
care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and actually
> admit to buying and having success with his little black
> box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take
it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You
would never believe the results, so you'll never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by Jerry's
> posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife
and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey
(Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei
(do Iget to listen to the box first?)
Hello People,
Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member, and hated me a
much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a long time
friend and prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry came
along and smartened him up. He learned the hard way, and no
longer posts to his former pals, because it is just too
painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and KILL their dogs
than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT.
----------------------------------------------
"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems
of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the
simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to
admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in
explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which
they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their
lives."
-Leo Tolstoy-
Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated
more complaints to my personal email than any other
controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:
CAVEAT
If you have to do things to your dog to train him that you
would rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing them.
If you have a dog trainer who tells you to jerk your dog
around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock,
shake, slap, scold, hit, chin cuff, scruff shake or punish
your dog in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that
the dog won't think of you as the punisher, or that
corrections are not harmful, or if they can't train your dog
to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows HOWE.
Thank you,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
-Francis Bacon-
There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem,
bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after.
Who ever can't hit the nail on the head should, please, not
hit at all.
-Nietzsche-
The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are
learned qualities.
The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow to make him smarter.
The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising
split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not
mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and
scolding.
-Jerry Howe-
The Puppy Wizard. <}TPW ; ~ ) >
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
WardM...@animail.net
Date: 13 Mar 2005 16:20:42 -0800
Subject: Re: Help! Our Shepherd Keeps Killing Deer
HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,
T...@dog-play.com wrote:
> On 13 Mar 2005 13:14:17 -0800 Jim Pflaum <jpfl...@bellsouth.net>
whittled these words:
> > I was hoping to get some worthwhile training tips,
> > not a lecture. We don't live in or near a city. We
> > live on small 43 acre farm, and have no nearby
> > neighbors. Ali never leaves our property, even
> > when she's chasing deer. Don't like the idea of
> > an e-collar.
> The "idea" of an ecollar is
LOATHESOME.
> very often misudnderstood by people
Oh. You mean the UNEDUCATED masses,
Master Of Deception blankman. The uneducated
folks who don't UNDERSTAND dog behaivor.
> who have limited direct experience with them.
You mean like THIS?:
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching Cubbe
> all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking is behavioral,
> not physical. Naturally I'll continue keeping an eye on her,
> but when I add everything up, I don't see symptoms of
> anything neurological-- and the vet agrees.
> --Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR ufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR ufusSmall.WMV"
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES
and ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
Here is a video from Fred which I have a few concerns
about (and maybe Fred can weigh in if he sees fit), THE
SAME "FRED" that johnny would invite to heelp his
shelter dogs learn RESPECT.
This is a video about Nero being taught to get on
a skateboard.
http://www.studioonline.com/pl ayvideos.asp?crypt=A7E284B9ABD FCE0F
or
In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.
If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.
> Why reject something that you know little about?
We KNOW shocking dogs makes them FEAR
AGGRESSIVE and GETS PEOPLE HURT and
DOGS DEAD, Master Of Deception blankman.
> You want to train with kindness
Wouldn't THAT be curiHOWES?
> then consider the e-collar.
BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> Because it is just about the least stressful way
> there is to acheive your goal - short of keeping
> her on leash 100% of the time.
THAT'S INSANE.
> Instead of rejecting the idea
You mean the IDEA of HURTING his dog.
> out of hand consider further research.
You're a lying dog abusing mental case
and he'll FIND that's VERIFIED by YOUR
OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY if he
does the RESEARCH, Master Of Deception
blankman <{) ; ~ ) >
> > She's been reward-trained and she's an
> > absolutely wonderful and obedient dog,
BWEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> > except for her deer chasing.
So much for your REWARD trainin.
> > We've got three horses, 2 cats and about a
> > dozen chickens and she gets along great with
> > them. Again, I'm looking for some training tips,
> > not a lecture.
> Traning tips aren't going to do it.
Right. He needs to buy a three hundred
dollar shock collar from your website.
> Taking a training class, and investing
> some real time in training probably will.
THAT SO?
> The first thing any competent trainer will tell
> you is that during the time you are training
> you must entirely prevent the behavior.
Well that's on accHOWENT of they can't
TRAIN the behavior NEARLY INSTANTLY.
> Keep in mind the basis of your "reward-training"
> is that the dog will repeat behaviors that are rewarding.
ONLY FOR A REWARD.
> Every time she succeeds in chasing she is
> being more strongly "trained" in that unwanted
> behavior.
And THAT'S HOWE COME HURTING the dog
AIN'T GONNA STOP HER FROM DOIN IT.
> So if you want to work toward the possiblity
> of stopping the behavior through obedience,
You'd have to BE THERE ALL THE TIME to
COMMAND FORCE HURT or INTIMIDATE
the dog EVERY TIME IT sees a deer or you'll
VARIABLY REINFORCE the BAD BEHAVIOR
again.
THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard DOESN'T DO NUTHIN like HOWE
you and your Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing
Punk Thug Coward Active Acute Long Term
INCURABLE MENTAL CASE pals <{) ; ~ ) >
> you have stop the behavior from occurring
> until obdience is instillled.
UNLESS you know HOWE to train ANY behavior
NEARLY INSTANTLY using effective non physical
scientific and psychological conditioning as taught
in your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
<{) ; ~ ) >
> Diane Blackman
> http://dog-play.com/
EZ To Prove?
HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,
<TOTE@ wrote in message
news:2p1n2bFfmju1U1@
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:59:31 -0400 LeeCharlesKelley
<kelleymethod@ whittled these words:
> > It's only when you have a system that is successful
> > with all dogs, all the time, under all circumstances,
> > and a theory that can be applied to all dogs equally,
> > no matter how different they are in terms of temperament,
> > that you have a real scientific basis for training.
Like The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method AS
REPORTED BY The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students all over the
Whole Wild World REPORT RIGHT HERE.
You know, the WONS YOU CALL LIARS
and FORGERIES to defend your alleged
RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER
dogs as you PREFER.
> Too bad there is no such system.
You've got ALL the CASE HISTORY DATA
you need to SCIENTIFICALLY PROVE every
thing The Amazing Puppy Wizard and Lee
are tellin you but YOU CALL IT LIES on
accHOWENT of you're a lying dog abusing
mental case and coward.
> If there were, it would be easily proven
> by anyone who cared to promote it.
It's time for the dog training industry and
the universities who TEACH "behaviorists"
to DEFEND THEIR METHODS against 100%
NEAR INSTANT TOTAL SUCCESS as PROVEN
by the C-HOWENTLESS NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Student's REPORTS,
after they've "TRIED ALL OTHER METHODS
and FAILED".
"The thinking that got us into this mess
will be insufficient to get us out of it."
--Albert Einstein
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marshall Dermer"
> <dermer@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePuppyWizard@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
> Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
> Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
> I have, of late, come to recognize your
> genius and now must applaud your attempts
> to save animals from painful training
> procedures.
> You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional
> talent, who tirelessly devotes his days to
> crafting posts to alert the world to animal
> abuse.
> We are lucky to have you, and more people
> should come to their senses and support
> your valuable work.
> Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
> charity to fund your important work?
> Have you thought about holding a press
> conference so others can learn of your
> highly worthwhile and significant work?
> In closing, my only suggestion is that you
> try to keep your messages short for most
> readers may refuse to read a long message
> even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy
> Wizard.
> I wish you well in your endeavors.
> --Marshall Dermer
> Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/
> Behavior Analysis Specialty/Department
> of Psychology/University of Wisconsin-
> Milwaukee/Milwaukee,WI 53201
> dermer@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
> --------------------------------------
> As stated, it would be easily proven by
> applying a standard set of criteria
HOWE abHOWET 100% NEARLY INSTANT
REHABILITATION of ALL behavior problems
in ALL dogs ALL OVER the Whole Wild World?
> and evaluating the degree to which
> the criteria is met.
HOWE abHOWET 100% TOTAL NON
PHYSICAL CON-TROLL AS REPORTED
by those 100% NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Students
all over the Whole Wild World.
You know, the WONS YOU CALL LIARS
and FORGERIES by The Amazing Puppy
Wizard to MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A LIAR
and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE.
REMEMBER?
> The nice thing is that the standard set of criteria
> already exists in a multitude of forms when it comes
> to evaluating the success of any system in accomplishing
> a particular behavior by a dog.
HOWE abHOWET 100% NEARLY INSTANT TOTAL
NON PHYSICAL CON-TROLL? Will you ACCEPT THAT?
> And once proved would be quickly embraced
> by those for whom success is the prevaling goal.
UNLESS it DISCREDITS and PROVES YOU
to be a LIAR and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE.
They you'll just repeat the same lies and believe
them yourself on accHOWENT of THAT'S your
HUMAN NATURE, Master Of Deception blankman,
the NATURE of a liar and dog abusing coward.
And THAT'S HOWE COME you're a MENTAL CASE.
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME is the perfect
synergy of love, pride, desire, self will, greed,
ego, fear, hate, arrogance, disbelief, jealousy,
embarrassment, embellishment, shame, guilt,
anger, aversion, attraction, revulsion, change,
permanence, enlightenment, insult, attrition,
and conditioning.
It's the perfect fusion of The Word...,
in the physical.
> > Dominance trainers believe their system is valid.
They MURDER their BEST dogs.
> > Positive reinforcement trainers believe THEIRS is.
NO. You mean BRIBERY trainers. You cannot
physically train a dog to naturally want to do
EVERY THING you ask. Food bribes lower's
the dog's appreciation for WORKING with his
people.
> > And in the past few years some trainers,
> > instead of looking for an underlying theory
> > that works with all dogs, have begun using
> > a "combined" approach,
You mean a BALANCED trainer. See The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's Post "BALANCED
TRAINERS."
> > taking a little bit from both camps as a way
> > of accounting for individual differences in dogs.
IOW, they're NOT GETTIN 100% CONSISTENTLY
RELIABLE NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS. That's
on accHOWENT of you CANNOT BRIBE or INTIMIDATE
a dog to naturally WANT to do as you LIKE.
> > The theory behind Natural Dog Training already
> > takes these differences into account, and it
> > always works, with all dogs.*
As does The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method.
> Belief is nice,
You CANNOT DENY the CASE HISTORY DATA
in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives on Google.
> but why rely soley on belief when the ability to
> demonstrate the point is so readily available?
It's been DONE. You call the DATA LIES
on accHOWENT of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard has PROVEN you to be a dog
abusing PSYCHOPATH.
> If a person's training theory is that any dog is
> equally trainable for the same behavior
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End dog Training Method Manual Students have
BEEN PROVING THAT for FIVE YEARS, ever
sincy YOUR FORMER PAL Robert Crim MURDERED
HIS DEAD DOG Fritz and LEARNED THE HARD WAY
that you're a lying dog abusing MENTAL CASE:
The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ decent people
do not post here abHOWETS. There are few, if
any, EXXXCEPTIONS to The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's rules of behaviorISM.
Robert Crim was The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
foremost antagonist and first R.P.D.B. former
Gang Of Thugs Member, in fact, R.P.D.B.'s most
enterTraining and highly respected dog abuser,
to realize he murdered his best friend Fritz The
Wonder Dog only on acc-HOWENT of he was
misled by the CONspiracy to defend hurting and
murdering dogs in typical, timeless rpdb fashion
by the lying dog abusing punk thug cowards and
active long term incurable mental cases led by
professor marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
'NO!' into its face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes CON-templation" dermer of the
Department of ANAL-ytic BehaviorISM at UofWI
and his second in cyberspace command Master
Of Deception blankman of dogplay.CON and the
rabid "dogman" aka joey finnochiario aka jackass
morrison aka tommy soronson of soronson's
Retriever Puppy Mill and sindy SADIST mooreon,
author of HOWER FAQ's pages at K-9web.CON
assisted by the coward ed w of PETLOSS.COIN,
and posted this and never returned:
<"Terri"@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Robert Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member, and
hated me a much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a
long time friend and prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry
came along and smartened him up. He learned the hard
way, and no longer posts to his former pals, because it is
just too painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and
KILL their dogs than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT.
> then there are venues for demonstrating the
> validity of that belief.
Yeah. HOWE abHOWET in criminal court
on animal abuse charges:
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but w e'vecomealongwaysincethen.Shetrusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
> Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
> is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
> keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
> up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
> and the vet agrees.
> --Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR ufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR ufusSmall.WMV"
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
> The criteria for performance are easily determined.
You can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE.
> Read the rules forthe CD and CDX.
BWEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> Obtain a dog who needs to become adoptable
> to survive. Commit to a prediction as the the
> amount of time both result in an adoptable dog
> and to get qualifying scores at both levels (CD,
> CDX). Apply training to the dog. Then prove the
> validity of the claim by meeting the challenge.
YOU'RE INSANE.
> I wouldn't expect a person who was not focussed
> on competition to get high scores because there
> is more than just dog training involved.
YOU'RE FULL OF CRAP.
Your own posting history of jerking and choking
your dog on your pronged spiked pinch choke
collar with custom knitted cover up and shocking
an lying abHOWET it will prove you're a MENTAL
CASE.
> Nonetheless proof of the effectiveness of a
> training system *in comparision to others* is
> easily accomplished by participating in any of
> the available systems of competition in which
> there is an established criteria for performance.
Here's a other DEAD DOG YOU MURDERED:
"misty" <Momisty@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote in message news:
16990-3CAB1F8C-1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how
you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my
using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not
wanting to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping
my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
=====================
misty" <Momisty@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
> dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
> back in the yard and would run for days.
>The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
> my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
> reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
> She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
> chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
> the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
> e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
> then you need to train your dog.
> I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
> our yard again.
> The price was too high:-( ~misty
=====================
> One assumes that (whether from caring about
> the future of dogs, or from mere ego) if one has
> an effective training system, and if wide-spread
> implementation of that system can save lives and
> heart-ache, then taking steps to demonstrate that
> effectiveness would be readily embraced.
Yeah, WON might THINK.
UNLESS of curse your own career and reputation
was GUARANTEED to go DHOWEN the crapHOWES.
> So my question is this: Why fail to take advantage
> of the single most persuasive means of proving training
> method effectiveness?
Date: 2003-07-13 18:23:18 PST
HOWEDY Linda,
"Linda" <llindaleedaniel@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:3c317fe4.0307061948.355550ed@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > "Susan Reardon" <susan.reardon@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
> > message
> > news:cabcf12f.0305300321.22a54ebb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > What is wrong with this guy Jerry Howe? The "Puppy
> > > Wizard"? Why must he reply to every single thread in all
> > > of the doggie newsgroups??? He scares me! Are his
> > > training methods really proven? Why is he so rude
> > > to everyone?
> "rosyjazz" <rosyjazz@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:<225Ea.857993$OV.809318@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
:
> > He has been around FOREVER.
Only FEELS like that.
> > He is a true jerk who doesnt know ANYTHING about dogs.
INDEED. You'd think he'da learned SUMPTHIN in forty years
specializing in temperament and behavior problems in mostly
giant breed dogs and protection training.
> > I think he is a sad and lonely person whom has a lot of
> > time on his hands.
True enough. But it's YOU who makes The Puppy
Wizard and all the dogs in the world, sad.
> Interesting comment--have you met Jerry?
Only here on The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Forum.
> I know from working with Jerry that he understands and
> can communicate with dogs as well as teaching others to
> communicate with their dog.
EZ, FAST, and FOR FREE.
> > DO NOT use any of his methods,
RIGHT. That's the fastest way to get into trouble. You
got to use ALL of it and follow the methods exactly to
get 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CONTROL, NEARLY
INSTANTLY.
> > they are all wrong.
Because NOBODY IN THE Whole Wild World gets the
kind of NEAR INSTANT SUCCESS The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students get.
> > He also doesnt know a thing about dog breeds
A dog is a dog.
> > and behavior.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS IN ANIMALS AND
CHILDREN ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> Have you tried his methods???
HOWER DOG LOVERS SEE NO METHOD cause
there ain't not PAIN FEAR FORCE BRIBES and
INTIMIDATION, there.
> If his methods are all "wrong"> wonder how they
> work so well for so many people and their dogs
> like me and my dog?/?
Oh, that's EZ, Professora Daniel. That's DRIVING
THEM STARK RAVIN INSANE. They're suffering
from mass hysteria right nHOWE.
It's all part of gettin JERRYIZED. It's the same same
results they get with their force training methods.
> > I just wish we could get him banned for good.
Yeah, you an everybody else who LIKES to HURT
and KILL HOWER BEST DOGS.
> > He gives out really bad advise.
Yeah... not to HURT or FORCE or BRIBE or INTIMIDATE
your dogs and kids and spHOWEses and you'll get 100T%
TOTAL CONTROL. But you can't even say "NO!," cause
THAT'S the DEAL BREAKER.
NO FORCE.
And you win everything you want.
> His advice saved my dog-
Perhaps it was a FLUKE.
> -turned him from a fear aggressive out of control
> dangerous dog into a dog that is a joy to be with-
Well Professora Daniel, The Puppy Wizard sez you're
intentionally understating Sunshine's ability to naturally
want to do every thing you ask.
> -this was after 70 some hours of various types of dog
> training that only made him worse and me poorer!
> > Rosy, Founder/Director
> > Small Breed Dogs Rescue
> > http://www.smallbreeddogs.org
Right... You worked with dra mcconnell in person too, didn't
you, Professora Daniel. All that work and all them books you
read didn't help at all, and in fact, was responsible for
Sunshine developing a couple NEW disorders, like his light
chasing OCD that got you bit while changing a CD in your
puter.
Sunshine is ready to do therapy work any time you want
to get sarted, Professora Daniel. Here's Jerome and his
two therapy dogs, his first WON came from a dog club
member cause she couln't get her calm enough to do
that work.
> It is really simple.
INDEEDY.
> Walk the walk.
THAT'S HOWE COME YOU CAN'T
POST HERE abHOWETS noMOORE.
> All this talk, and all this theory is completly
> meaningless if it can't be objectively evaluated.
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
> > *Unless there's an underlying physiological
> > cause of a behavioral problem. And sometimes
> > even then.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.
> Well there are always good reasons for failure.
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
> Diane Blackman
> http://dog-play.com/
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?
"Rocky" <2dogs@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me.
I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,
I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"
BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...
"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"
OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
lucy...@claque.net
> lucy...@claque.net wrote in
> news:1121628829.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> [reams of repetititive gibberish snipped to spare the senses]
Thank you. Always courteous, aren't you, Jack.
> >> I.e., walk the walk.
> >
> > The ball is in your field, Handsome Jack. Prove that Jerry is wrong.
>
> No, Lucy, the ball isn't in my "field," or even my court.
Oops! You're right: not your "field", it's your "court". But still it's
YOUR court - sorry.
> It's in Jerry's.
Nope, for all the reasons I detailed in my post and which apparently
were incomprehensible to you.
> Many regulars have already taken the time to present to you (sometimes in
> excrutiatingly fine detail) all of Jerry's history here,
Jerry's history here is irrelevant, as is Jerry's personality; we were
talking about Jerry's DOG TRAINING METHOD, not about Jerry.
> rebutted your
> claims, point by point,
Nope. They did nothing of the sort. All they did was to say that:
1. Jerry's method doesn't work with all the dogs (never being able to
explain WHY);
2. Jerry's method is plagiarized (never being able to provide the
source from which it was "plagiarized");
3. Jerry is not "nice" to the regulars - the only point for which there
is ample evidence, but which is totally uninteresting to me. Yes, Jerry
isn't nice to all of you - so what? Why should you care if Jerry is
"nice" to you, in order to discuss his METHOD?
> etc., and it's quite obvious now that no amount of
> words written here (not even Jerry's own!) is ever going to convince
> someone like you that Jerry is a kook and a shyster, so, as I said in a
> previous post, I'm no longer going to try.
See? You keep discussing Jerry, while I'm trying to make you talk about
dog training.
> I can recognize a brick wall
> when I see one.
So do I, but I find the challenge engaging - well, sometimes. In what I
am concerned, I think that you were closer to the truth when comparing
me to a Pitbull: I'm stubborn and I don't give up easily.
> As far as Jerry being "right" or "wrong" goes, I have never said that
> everything Jerry claims here is wrong.
Can you be more specific? What exactly of what he says you think IS
wrong?
> Much of it will indeed "work" (and
> it was "working" for other trainers/owners before Jerry was even born),
Is praising bad behavior something that other trainers are using, too?
> provided the trainer/owner puts in the time, etc., and doesn't expect to
> end up with Lassie or Rin Tin Tin. It's quite possible to "train" a dog
> without using any formal training-method whatsoever, and the vast majority
> of dogs still somehow become satisfactorily trained in spite of their
> owners. Yes, your definition of satisfactorily may differ from mine, or
> from others, and some people are extremely easily satisfied.
No doubt. I'm very easily satisfied. I'm satisfied if my opposite sex
dogs don't fight; I'm satisfied if they don't attack children; I'm
satisfied if they don't attack humans of any age; I'm satisfied if they
don't attack other dogs; I'm satisfied if I can walk them on a leash
without pulling; I'm satisfied if I can leave them for hours at home
and find them, the kittens and the house in good state when I return;
I'm satisfied if they are calm and peaceful and healthy and content. I
don't need them to work for me, hunt for me or protect me. And I
certainly don't need them to compete and earn titles and ribbons.
> I've challenged Jerry to put up or shut up many times in the past, and he's
> repeatedly refused to walk the walk. I've even offered to pay his
> expenses, plus given him a chance to win several thousand dollars. But this
> is not about whether his methods "work," it's how well they work (results!
> results! results!) when compared to other methods (results! results!
> results!), e.g., traditional methods, the e-collar, etc. And not only how
> well they work, but how reliable they are, how fast they can achieve
> lasting results, etc.
Jack, if you have, for instance, a dog who tears a hardbound book each
time he's left alone at home, what is your method to put an end to
that? What exactly do you do, so that you don't have to come home to
yet another precious book turned into useless paper flakes?
Or how do you make an AmStaff mix understand the difference between a
kitten and his toys he chews?
Or how do you make your female dog who hates the guts of another female
to stop madly barking at her each time you walk your dogs past her
house?
> There's no better way to convince someone like you, IMO, than to SHOW you,
> up close and personal, how wrong you are about Jerry and his "methods," and
> I'm still willing to take the time (very valuable time, too!) needed to do
> just that, plus pay for Jerry's expenses, plus give him a chance to win
> several thousand dollars. All on a neutral court. Details will be provided
> upon request.
No need to waste your precious time and Jerry's - though it would be
very interesting to watch both you and him at work, no doubt.
> Moreover, a half-dozen dogs would receive a reprieve from their current
> death sentences.
What about the problem dogs we are hearing about right here? What would
you do, for instance, about Tara O.'s dog Joe Joe, who pees on Tara's
other dog? Do you think that an e-collar is the right thing for him? Do
you think that it's a wise idea that someone without any experience
with an e-collar to try it on an otherwise good and obedient dog?
> And all you have to do is convince Jerry to come out of his dingy little
> rat hole long enough to walk the walk.
>
> Or, to make a complete ass out of himself.
Just curious, what would you consider as a success in such a test? When
"walking the walk", how far exactly do you walk? There were people here
telling about dogs who do fantastically well in competitions but can't
be made to stop counter surfing at home, or something like that; how
relevant is the dog's success in the ring, if he's a little monster at
home?
> And I'm willing to pay his expenses and wager several thousand dollars that
> it's the latter.
>
> One way or the other, the truth would finally be told.
The truth HAS been told, many times, Jack; it's just that you do not
want to hear it.
> PS: Yes, you can even have the film rights! Think of all the money *that*
> would make you and Jerry! Maybe HBO would take on the project?
Yeah, that would be nice. But I find the fact that my dogs have become
so easy to live with by far much more rewarding than any money you or
anyone else could offer.
Lucy
Tee
news:1121710530....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> What about the problem dogs we are hearing about right here? What would
> you do, for instance, about Tara O.'s dog Joe Joe,
I haven't used my last initial in over a year so why is it that you're
using it?
> who pees on Tara's
> other dog? Do you think that an e-collar is the right thing for him? Do
> you think that it's a wise idea that someone without any experience
> with an e-collar to try it on an otherwise good and obedient dog?
Please tell me how is it that anyone ever gets e-collar experience unless
they start somewhere? If the prerequisite is that you need to have e-collar
training experience then no one at all would ever be able to use one.
Just as an FYI I have enough how-to material to make an informed decision
about attempting the use of an e-collar and I plan to attempt more than just
correcting the marking problem with it. If I see an abnormal reaction to
the e-collar than I won't use it, period.
You likely believe that e-collars are harsh & evil devices. Tell me then if
you feel the same about a penny can. Did you know that a penny can is just
as harsh to alot of dogs?
--
Tara
Rocky
> when I was growing up, we had a dog we got from the humane
> society. I never saw a dog so sound sensitive. If you
> closed a book, the whooshing sound sent her skittering
> under the piano bench shivering.
It's becoming more and more obvious that Lucy either knows no
dogs well, or has had a "perfect" dog, if there is such a thing.
I'm working on one dog who's scared of "things being unrolled,"
amongst other things. We've progressed from paper towels to tin
foil (still working on the latter).
> I can't imagine
> the damage a penny can would do to her.
A penny can would screw up "my" dog royally. A penny can would
ruin everything that I've work on. A penny can would destroy
this dog's trust in me.
lucy...@claque.net
> <lucy...@claque.net> wrote in message
> news:1121710530....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > What about the problem dogs we are hearing about right here? What would
> > you do, for instance, about Tara O.'s dog Joe Joe,
>
> I haven't used my last initial in over a year so why is it that you're
> using it?
In order to distinguish between you and the other Tara who sometimes
posts here. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to use it, but I'm not
going to use it in the future if that's what you prefer.
> > who pees on Tara's
> > other dog? Do you think that an e-collar is the right thing for him? Do
> > you think that it's a wise idea that someone without any experience
> > with an e-collar to try it on an otherwise good and obedient dog?
>
> Please tell me how is it that anyone ever gets e-collar experience unless
> they start somewhere? If the prerequisite is that you need to have e-collar
> training experience then no one at all would ever be able to use one.
Since you ask me, I think it would be better if no one would use it at
all. And I think that someone who has no experience with it should be
twice as reluctant to use it.
> Just as an FYI I have enough how-to material to make an informed decision
> about attempting the use of an e-collar and I plan to attempt more than just
> correcting the marking problem with it. If I see an abnormal reaction to
> the e-collar than I won't use it, period.
Well, there were a few people here - not exactly Jerry's fans - who did
advise you against it, right?
> You likely believe that e-collars are harsh & evil devices.
No, I don't believe that e-collars are either harsh or evil; they are
things. In the wrong hands, though, they can do a lot of harm.
> Tell me then if
> you feel the same about a penny can.
Yes, if you use it as an aversive.
> Did you know that a penny can is just
> as harsh to alot of dogs?
When used in order to punish the dog, it no doubt is.
Lucy
Tee
news:1121713055.6...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> In order to distinguish between you and the other Tara who sometimes
> posts here. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to use it, but I'm not
> going to use it in the future if that's what you prefer.
People usually use Tee rather than my initial. I don't care so much I just
find it odd since you weren't posting here back then.
> Since you ask me, I think it would be better if no one would use it at
> all. And I think that someone who has no experience with it should be
> twice as reluctant to use it.
Well that just takes us back to the beginning. A person can't ever gain
experience with a tool unless they start somewhere.
> Well, there were a few people here - not exactly Jerry's fans - who did
> advise you against it, right?
Yes and since those people haven't evaluated this dog to know whether or not
the tool might just work I took their advice to heart but I will try what I
think has a chance if it means fixing the problem and keeping the dog. I'm
not JQP who goes to Petsmart to buy a shock collar to teach their dog not to
run off or pull on the leash.
> No, I don't believe that e-collars are either harsh or evil; they are
> things. In the wrong hands, though, they can do a lot of harm.
Mine may be the wrong hands but then they're also more knowledgable than
alot of non-trainers who buy them. I, at least, know what to look for, what
to avoid, what my end goal is, how I can attempt to achieve it and when to
stop if things don't look like they're progressing well.
> Yes, if you use it as an aversive.
It doesn't matter if you use a penny can as an aversive or not. To alot of
dogs its absolute torture.
> When used in order to punish the dog, it no doubt is.
Well that can be said of anything including your own voice.
--
Tara
Robin Nuttall
>
> You likely believe that e-collars are harsh & evil devices. Tell me then if
> you feel the same about a penny can. Did you know that a penny can is just
> as harsh to alot of dogs?
>
<shudder> The penny can. Talk about a training "method" that should be
abandoned. Terrifies noise sensitive dogs, teaches non-noise-sensitive
dogs to BE noise sensitive. I consider the penny can dog abuse.
lucy...@claque.net
> in thread news:3k2ao7F...@individual.net: "Tee"
> <crappol...@netscape.net> whittled the following words:
>
> > Tell me then if
> > you feel the same about a penny can. Did you know that a penny can is
> > just as harsh to alot of dogs?
> >
> > --
> > Tara
> >
> >
>
> never saw a dog so sound sensitive. If you closed a book, the whooshing
> the damage a penny can would do to her. A meaningful stare was a strong
> correction. That was all the corrections she ever needed. She had a very
> strong desire to please. Just be quiet about it, please?
>
> Danny was very sensitive, and a strong correction for him was NOT meeting
> his eyes with yours. No penny cans (nor choke collars, nor e-collars) for
> him either.
You don't have to use a penny can on a dog who is sensitive to sounds.
You can use a snap of your fingers, your keys, the sound made by a
plastic bag suddenly moved, or any environmental sound that happens at
the right time.
> Reka is the first Elkhound that I could probably use a penny can with. Or
> perhaps a choker. No e-collar, thank you. But she doesn't need any one of
> them.
> I wonder how she loves kids, doesn't fight with dogs (yadda yadda, yadda)
> and wasn't trained by Jerries methods?
Any nonviolent method would do, I believe. Jerry's method worked so
well with my strong-willed puppy because it was one that managed to
capture his attention and offer him something more rewarding than the
bad things he enjoyed so much doing.
Lucy
Robin Nuttall
> diddy wrote:
>
> You don't have to use a penny can on a dog who is sensitive to sounds.
> You can use a snap of your fingers, your keys, the sound made by a
> plastic bag suddenly moved, or any environmental sound that happens at
> the right time.
All of which can be devastating to a noise-sensitive dog. I know a dog
who, if you make a soft, quiet, BZZZTT sound, will literally flee the room.
Any time NOISE is made into an aversive, you are just adding problems to
the dog's repetoire. You are teaching that NOISES mean BAD things. This
is not something I would ever teach my dog, as it tends to make them
neurotic.
Marcel Beaudoin
news:1121713526....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> diddy wrote:
<snip>
>> when I was growing up, we had a dog we got from the humane society.
>> I never saw a dog so sound sensitive. If you closed a book, the
>> whooshing sound sent her skittering under the piano bench shivering.
>> I can't imagine the damage a penny can would do to her. A meaningful
>> stare was a strong correction. That was all the corrections she ever
>> needed. She had a very strong desire to please. Just be quiet about
>> it, please?
>>
>> Danny was very sensitive, and a strong correction for him was NOT
>> meeting his eyes with yours. No penny cans (nor choke collars, nor
>> e-collars) for him either.
>
> You don't have to use a penny can on a dog who is sensitive to sounds.
> You can use a snap of your fingers, your keys, the sound made by a
> plastic bag suddenly moved, or any environmental sound that happens at
> the right time.
You don't get it, do you. For some dogs, sound sensitive is sound
sensitive, no matter what the sound. If it startles them, it is a bad
thing. Another point you should consider is that using an environmental
noise is rarely successful. If we could rely on an environmental noise to
distract dogs from doing something (bad or good) than they would never do
anything at all. how is the dog supposed to know if a noise they heard is
an environmental noise they are supposed to acknowledge as a distraction,
or just something that they can ignore. Take a hunting dog for example. I
am pretty sure (and HJM and Kate can probably back me up on this) that you
do not want a hunting dog distracted by envoironmental sounds.
--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
lucy...@claque.net
> diddy said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > when I was growing up, we had a dog we got from the humane
> > society. I never saw a dog so sound sensitive. If you
> > closed a book, the whooshing sound sent her skittering
> > under the piano bench shivering.
>
> It's becoming more and more obvious that Lucy either knows no
> dogs well, or has had a "perfect" dog, if there is such a thing.
BOTH my dogs are perfect - NOW. <G>
> I'm working on one dog who's scared of "things being unrolled,"
> amongst other things. We've progressed from paper towels to tin
> foil (still working on the latter).
My puppy is a fearless little guy. He won't be scared by sounds or
things or critters - he would even accept a bath, if he can't avoid it.
:-)
> > I can't imagine
> > the damage a penny can would do to her.
>
> A penny can would screw up "my" dog royally. A penny can would
> ruin everything that I've work on. A penny can would destroy
> this dog's trust in me.
Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys. Use any sound
you can produce from different directions. Use your imagination, for a
change. And don't forget to praise the dog, each time that you produce
the sound.
Lucy
Robin Nuttall
> in thread news:1121713526....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> lucy...@claque.net whittled the following words:
>
>
>>
>>You don't have to use a penny can on a dog who is sensitive to sounds.
>>You can use a snap of your fingers, your keys, the sound made by a
>>plastic bag suddenly moved, or any environmental sound that happens at
>>the right time.
>>
>>
>
>
> under a piano bench? Keys, snapping fingers, etc simply wouldn't have
> worked. All those would be abuse.
I clicker train, but there are dogs who are terrified of the clicker
sound. And that's with the clicker being paired with a positive, not a
negative! With some dogs you can back down to the sound of a pen
clicking, and with some dogs, you just can't use a noise like that at
all without a lot of desensitization. Imagine using that to punish the
dog. Ugh.
Tee
perception (take the perception that Jerry is an ass but you were still
willing to look at his method) I ask you to please review this website,
particularly the E-Collar Myths page at:
http://www.loucastle.com/myth.htm
Whether or not you change your views even slightly or whether or not you
aren't being entirely truthful about looking for facts about methods at
least you'll have read something that is food for thought.
--
Tara
shelly
>Any time NOISE is made into an aversive, you are just adding
>problems to the dog's repetoire. You are teaching that NOISES
>mean BAD things. This is not something I would ever teach my
>dog, as it tends to make them neurotic.
exactly. i've spent nearly six years trying to teach harriet
that she needn't be concerned about noises. why on *earth*
would i turn around and teach her that she was right all
along? that would, i think, be cruel.
--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com/ (updated 7/10/05)
shelly
>It's becoming more and more obvious that Lucy either knows no
>dogs well, or has had a "perfect" dog, if there is such a
>thing.
ahem. yes, there is, but it's too much to hope that there are
two of them floating around.
i'll take Door #1, Bob.
>A penny can would screw up "my" dog royally. A penny can
>would ruin everything that I've work on. A penny can would
>destroy this dog's trust in me.
thank you! i have one of those dogs, as well. there is just
no way in hell i'd violate her trust by using a penny can
around her.
shelly
>how is the dog supposed to know if a noise they heard is an
>environmental noise they are supposed to acknowledge as a
>distraction, or just something that they can ignore.
or, worse, how do you explain to them that Noise A is a
punishment on Mondays, but on Tuesdays, it's arbitrary and
meaningless? if i use, for example, a pen clicking to
distract my dog, how do i teach her to ignore other people
clicking pens, or me clicking pens in other contexts? i
can't, and that strikes me as 1) unfair to the dog and 2)
counterproductive to training.
shelly
>You have limited sense
you could've stopped right there.
Handsome Jack Morrison
news:1121710530....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
>> lucy...@claque.net wrote in
>> news:1121628829.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> [reams of repetititive gibberish snipped to spare the senses]
>
> Thank you. Always courteous, aren't you, Jack.
My names is Handsome Jack, not Courteous Jack.
On the other hand, you might want to ask yourself just how "courteous"
you've been yourself here, when you imply that (apparently other than
Jerry) we're all a bunch of barbarians or Luddites.
>> >> I.e., walk the walk.
>> >
>> > The ball is in your field, Handsome Jack. Prove that Jerry is
>> > wrong.
>>
>> No, Lucy, the ball isn't in my "field," or even my court.
>
> Oops! You're right: not your "field", it's your "court". But still
> it's YOUR court - sorry.
>> It's in Jerry's.
>
> Nope, for all the reasons I detailed in my post and which apparently
> were incomprehensible to you.
And I outlined in *my* post (and previous ones) why, IMO, it would be a
huge waste of time for anyone to even attempt to educate you via the
written word.
And that's because, where you are concerned, there is no there there.
I don't even think a thousand words, plus a really big picture, would
ever be enough for someone like you.
>> Many regulars have already taken the time to present to you
>> (sometimes in excrutiatingly fine detail) all of Jerry's history
>> here,
>
> Jerry's history here is irrelevant, as is Jerry's personality; we were
> talking about Jerry's DOG TRAINING METHOD, not about Jerry.
No, his history is extremely pertinent, especially when you go back and
review his first few months here (before he was forced to quickly come up
with his now infamous "manual").
And the same kinds of questions that you keep asking here were once asked
of Jerry, too, but he repeatedly refused to give specifics, etc.
Instead, he essentially replied with "Buy my DDR!" or "Read my manual!"
Some did just that, and many of them were extremely disappointed.
>> rebutted your
>> claims, point by point,
>
> Nope. They did nothing of the sort. All they did was to say that:
>
> 1. Jerry's method doesn't work with all the dogs (never being able to
> explain WHY);
That's a claim that you yourself can either easily validate or refute all
by yourself!
Get thee to the pound/shelter, young lady!
And wow them with your results, using nothing more than Jerry's "manual"!
Let me know how that works out for you, okay?
But I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to do that, either.
> 2. Jerry's method is plagiarized (never being able to provide the
> source from which it was "plagiarized");
You were given numerous cites, and the archives at Google are absolutely
littered with them. You're going to have to do your own dirty-work.
Everyone here has *already* been down this muddy road many times
(adfreakingnauseam!), and feels no need to go down it again.
You're the one with all the questions; go find your own answers.
They're all there waiting for you.
> 3. Jerry is not "nice" to the regulars - the only point for which
> there is ample evidence, but which is totally uninteresting to me.
> Yes, Jerry isn't nice to all of you - so what? Why should you care if
> Jerry is "nice" to you, in order to discuss his METHOD?
Frankly, Lucy, *I* don't give a damn how nice or not nice Jerry is.
Jerry's a petty, stupid little prick, yes, but I know lots of petty,
stupid little pricks who are also pretty good dog trainers.
As far as Jerry "discussing" anything with me, again, go back and search
the archives one more time regarding how Jerry "discusses" dog training
with not only me, but with anyone here who questioned him or his
"methods."
You should find the experience both enlightening and entertaining. I
know I did/do.
>> etc., and it's quite obvious now that no amount of
>> words written here (not even Jerry's own!) is ever going to convince
>> someone like you that Jerry is a kook and a shyster, so, as I said in
>> a previous post, I'm no longer going to try.
>
> See? You keep discussing Jerry, while I'm trying to make you talk
> about dog training.
I'm perfectly happy (absolutely ecstatic!) with the results I obtain
using my own methods (which you can also learn more about by searching
the archives).
Moreoever, I'm always willing to compare those results against the
results obtained by other trainers (it's what retriever field-trialing is
all about, in fact).
And in my world, results always speak for themselves.
>> I can recognize a brick wall
>> when I see one.
>
> So do I, but I find the challenge engaging - well, sometimes. In what
> I am concerned, I think that you were closer to the truth when
> comparing me to a Pitbull: I'm stubborn and I don't give up easily.
But I'd never compare you to a pitbull. Pitbulls are very smart dogs, and
can be educated pretty quickly. I compare you to an ill-bred feral dog.
You've been denied a proper upbringing, and remain ignorant of the way
the world actually works, probably through no fault of your own. You can
probably be at least partially rehabilitated (eventually), and maybe even
get to a point where you won't sound quite so naive, but *I* don't have
the patience with humans that I have with dogs.
I essentially "gave up" weeks ago on you.
Now, I'm just havin' a little fun.
>> As far as Jerry being "right" or "wrong" goes, I have never said that
>> everything Jerry claims here is wrong.
>
> Can you be more specific? What exactly of what he says you think IS
> wrong?
No thanks. Been there. Done that. So have many others here. Won't do
it again.
>> Much of it will indeed "work" (and
>> it was "working" for other trainers/owners before Jerry was even
>> born),
>
> Is praising bad behavior something that other trainers are using, too?
I've already answered that questiopn, too.
>> provided the trainer/owner puts in the time, etc., and doesn't
>> expect to end up with Lassie or Rin Tin Tin. It's quite possible to
>> "train" a dog without using any formal training-method whatsoever,
>> and the vast majority of dogs still somehow become satisfactorily
>> trained in spite of their owners. Yes, your definition of
>> satisfactorily may differ from mine, or from others, and some people
>> are extremely easily satisfied.
>
> No doubt. I'm very easily satisfied. I'm satisfied if my opposite sex
> dogs don't fight; I'm satisfied if they don't attack children; I'm
> satisfied if they don't attack humans of any age; I'm satisfied if
> they don't attack other dogs; I'm satisfied if I can walk them on a
> leash without pulling; I'm satisfied if I can leave them for hours at
> home and find them, the kittens and the house in good state when I
> return; I'm satisfied if they are calm and peaceful and healthy and
> content. I don't need them to work for me, hunt for me or protect me.
> And I certainly don't need them to compete and earn titles and
> ribbons.
If you're satisfied with the results, you'd be smart to move on. Spend
the time that you're now spending here sounding really, really stupid on
your dogs instead. They'll appreciate the additional time and attention;
we won't.
>> I've challenged Jerry to put up or shut up many times in the past,
>> and he's repeatedly refused to walk the walk. I've even offered to
>> pay his expenses, plus given him a chance to win several thousand
>> dollars. But this is not about whether his methods "work," it's how
>> well they work (results! results! results!) when compared to other
>> methods (results! results! results!), e.g., traditional methods, the
>> e-collar, etc. And not only how well they work, but how reliable
>> they are, how fast they can achieve lasting results, etc.
>
> Jack, if you have, for instance, a dog who tears a hardbound book each
> time he's left alone at home, what is your method to put an end to
> that? What exactly do you do, so that you don't have to come home to
> yet another precious book turned into useless paper flakes?
I'm a firm believer in good doggie management (an ounce of prevention is
worth a pound of cure), and in good puppy upbringing.
For instance, *I* would never give a puppy free reign of the house,
especially around anything he could ever "get in to." I also would TRAIN
the puppy to leave anything alone that wasn't designated "his" or
"hers," for example his toys, chews, etc.
> Or how do you make an AmStaff mix understand the difference between a
> kitten and his toys he chews?
Again, see above.
> Or how do you make your female dog who hates the guts of another
> female to stop madly barking at her each time you walk your dogs past
> her house?
OBEDIENCE TRAINING. Period. Works every time. It's pretty easy to do,
actually.
>> There's no better way to convince someone like you, IMO, than to SHOW
>> you, up close and personal, how wrong you are about Jerry and his
>> "methods," and I'm still willing to take the time (very valuable
>> time, too!) needed to do just that, plus pay for Jerry's expenses,
>> plus give him a chance to win several thousand dollars. All on a
>> neutral court. Details will be provided upon request.
>
> No need to waste your precious time and Jerry's - though it would be
> very interesting to watch both you and him at work, no doubt.
Interesting indeed, and it can be arranged, too, if you'd just push your
crazy Uncle Jerry a bit.
Even Jerry's repeated refusal to take up the challenge is pretty
interesting, don't you think?
>> Moreover, a half-dozen dogs would receive a reprieve from their
>> current death sentences.
>
> What about the problem dogs we are hearing about right here?
Just in case you've forgotten, I've been helping people with their dog
problems here for years and years and years. Longer than I can even
remember these days.
You can look it up.
>Whatwould you do, for instance, about Tara O.'s dog Joe Joe, who pees on
> Tara's other dog? Do you think that an e-collar is the right thing for
> him? Do you think that it's a wise idea that someone without any
> experience with an e-collar to try it on an otherwise good and
> obedient dog?
1. I probably wouldn't do anything without seeing the dog in action, and
knowing more about the dog's background, the other dog, and getting to
see "what's going on in the pack," etc.
2. No.
3. Depending on what "it" is, not without getting some hands-on help from
an experienced e-collar trainer.
>> And all you have to do is convince Jerry to come out of his dingy
>> little rat hole long enough to walk the walk.
>>
>> Or, to make a complete ass out of himself.
>
> Just curious, what would you consider as a success in such a test?
I'd leave that up to the neutral party/parties to decide, but I'd
probably suggest an end-point that allowed for the dogs to be determined
by them as "adoptable."
Considerations would have to be given to the overall time it took, the
overall reliablity levels, etc. Again, those details could all be worked
out beforehand. I'm game for just about anything.
> When "walking the walk", how far exactly do you walk? There were
> people here telling about dogs who do fantastically well in
> competitions but can't be made to stop counter surfing at home, or
> something like that; how relevant is the dog's success in the ring, if
> he's a little monster at home?
Again, that all depends on what is considered "satisfactory" behavior by
each dog's owner.
As far as how far *I* would walk goes, I'm willing to walk *anywhere* if
Jerry's going to be there.
>> And I'm willing to pay his expenses and wager several thousand
>> dollars that it's the latter.
>>
>> One way or the other, the truth would finally be told.
>
> The truth HAS been told, many times, Jack; it's just that you do not
> want to hear it.
I don't think you'd recognize the truth if it bit you on the ass, Lucy.
I'm not even sure at this point if actually getting to see with your own
eyes your guru make a complete ass out of himself would do the trick.
You remind me of the old men in the fable:
http://www.kcmetro.cc.mo.us/pennvalley/biology/lewis/blindmen.htm
>> PS: Yes, you can even have the film rights! Think of all the money
>> *that* would make you and Jerry! Maybe HBO would take on the
>> project?
>
> Yeah, that would be nice. But I find the fact that my dogs have become
> so easy to live with by far much more rewarding than any money you or
> anyone else could offer.
Well, I know how people like you enjoy feeling good about yourselves, and
wouldn't you feel *unbelievably* good about yourself if, by just talking
your Uncle Jerry into finally walking the walk, you would also have
played a part in "revolutionizing" dog training and perhaps even help to
save MILLIONS and MILLIONS of canine lives, not to mention make MILLIONS
and MILLIONS of dog owners absolutely giddy?
<sigh>
Robin Nuttall
> on 2005-07-18 at 19:08 <rob...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Any time NOISE is made into an aversive, you are just adding
>>problems to the dog's repetoire. You are teaching that NOISES
>>mean BAD things. This is not something I would ever teach my
>>dog, as it tends to make them neurotic.
>
>
> exactly. i've spent nearly six years trying to teach harriet
> that she needn't be concerned about noises. why on *earth*
> would i turn around and teach her that she was right all
> along? that would, i think, be cruel.
>
dog who has learned to be noise sensitive is a bit difficult to have out
at, say, agility trials, or anywhere else for that matter. A lot of us
spend loads of time teaching dogs that noises just are not scary things.
Cala went through a small fear period as a puppy where loud clanging
noises scared her. Far from using that as a way to punish her, I started
banging her steel bowl against everything and anything--as I was filling
it with food. Put something sticky in it and oops! dropped it. Now the
steel bowl clinging gets her all hyped up and happy because she knows
she's going to get fed.
Robin Nuttall
> on 2005-07-18 at 19:08 <rob...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Any time NOISE is made into an aversive, you are just adding
>>problems to the dog's repetoire. You are teaching that NOISES
>>mean BAD things. This is not something I would ever teach my
>>dog, as it tends to make them neurotic.
>
>
> exactly. i've spent nearly six years trying to teach harriet
> that she needn't be concerned about noises. why on *earth*
> would i turn around and teach her that she was right all
> along? that would, i think, be cruel.
>
And another point. A big part of most temperament tests--from puppy
testing to the ATTS TT, and onto schutzhund, look at stability with
noise distraction. In schutzhund and in field dog work, a sound
sensitive (gunshy) dog is useless. And in the TT and the DPCA's Working
Aptitude test, they specifically use a penny can. Imagine teaching a dog
that a penny can is to be feared.
Christy
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri969781EB9191Cau...@rocky-dog.com...
> I'm working on one dog who's scared of "things being unrolled,"
> amongst other things. We've progressed from paper towels to tin
> foil (still working on the latter).
One of my dogs bolts in terror if someone sneezes. Another has an irrational
fear of pans banging together. Do these sound like good candidates for a
penny can?
Christy
Christy
<lucy...@claque.net> wrote in message
news:1121713946.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> My puppy is a fearless little guy. He won't be scared by sounds or
> things or critters - he would even accept a bath, if he can't avoid it.
Well hey. Get back to us when you have a dog that isn't perfect, mmkay?
> Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys. Use any sound
> you can produce from different directions. Use your imagination, for a
> change. And don't forget to praise the dog, each time that you produce
> the sound.
Oh, for God's sake! Can you not accept that some things won't work with ALL
DOGS? Why must you insist that every dog has to be trained with whatever
method you worship, regardless of how inappropriate it is for that dog? I
don't see anyone else here doing that. Interesting.
Christy
Paula
Well, of course! You just need to be sure you are praising while you
do it. This way the dog will not only learn the initial lesson you
were trying to teach with the penny can, but also will learn not to
have irrational fears because of being praised for bolting in terror.
Don't you know anything about dog training?
--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay
Paula
<YourLastInnocentHon...@HushMail.Com> wrote:
>> I.e., walk the walk.
>
>The ball is in your field, Handsome Jack. Prove that Jerry is wrong.
>
>> Ain't gonna happen.
>
>Well, that's entirely up to you.
>
>Lucy
Interesting that it comes from "Your Conscience" and starts with HOWE
speak and yet ends with "Lucy" talking about Jerry and signed by
"Lucy."
shelly
>Interesting that it comes from "Your Conscience" and starts
>with HOWE speak and yet ends with "Lucy" talking about Jerry
>and signed by "Lucy."
that, and Lucifer who just happened to show up today, xposting
Howespew to kingdom come and back again.
Alison
news:1121713526....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Any nonviolent method would do, I believe. Jerry's method worked
so
> well with my strong-willed puppy because it was one that managed to
> capture his attention and offer him something more rewarding than
the
> bad things he enjoyed so much doing.
>
> Lucy>>
Lucy ,
Why not come along to Taking the lead fourm.
http://www.takingthelead.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
You have to subscribe to read the posts. There are several
recognised positive trainers/behaviourists who can explain why using
noise distraction can sometimes do more harm than good.
Alison:)
Christy
"Paula" <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote in message
news:a37od1dsb1ptqmpr0...@4ax.com...
> On 17 Jul 2005 13:12:25 -0700, "YourConscience"
> <YourLastInnocentHon...@HushMail.Com> wrote:
>
> >> I.e., walk the walk.
> >
> >The ball is in your field, Handsome Jack. Prove that Jerry is wrong.
> >
> >> Ain't gonna happen.
> >
> >Well, that's entirely up to you.
> >
> >Lucy
>
> Interesting that it comes from "Your Conscience" and starts with HOWE
> speak and yet ends with "Lucy" talking about Jerry and signed by
> "Lucy."
Ahhhh. I didn't catch that, 'cos I have that name in my killfile. Very, very
good catch, Paula. Guess that's another sock puppet revealed...
Christy
Paula
wrote:
>on 2005-07-18 at 21:09 <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
>
>>Interesting that it comes from "Your Conscience" and starts
>>with HOWE speak and yet ends with "Lucy" talking about Jerry
>>and signed by "Lucy."
>
>that, and Lucifer who just happened to show up today, xposting
>Howespew to kingdom come and back again.
I can understand that. When his meds are working better, he wants to
say some of the same things without looking like a complete lunatic
and an ass and maybe clean up the image of that other Jerry. So up
pops someone to say well, he's kind of odd, but his ideas are great!
Apparently, he has been skipping a few doses here and there again and
is on his way back to psycho only.
Melinda Shore
Christy <easily...@gtenospam.net> wrote:
>Ahhhh. I didn't catch that, 'cos I have that name in my killfile. Very, very
>good catch, Paula. Guess that's another sock puppet revealed...
This kind of thing is pretty easy to check. Most news
interfaces stick the poster's IP address somewhere in the
header. Google constructs an "Injection-Info" header. In
this case Jerry was posting from 24.110.196.12 and Loser
from 217.132.121.111. Other fields in the header are
consistent with the two posts coming not just from different
addresses but from different continents. I think that in
this case what probably happened is that Jerry gave a
virtuoso display of his complete inability to master an
editor.
I realize that Lucy is such a bonehead that you can't help
thinking that it's not possible for someone to be such a
dolt and there must be some other explanation, but as I've
said before, it's in the nature of averages that somebody/
something has to be below average, and thus it is that we
have Lucy.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Average real weekly wages are lower today than they
were at the end of the 2001 recession.
Paula
>I realize that Lucy is such a bonehead that you can't help
>thinking that it's not possible for someone to be such a
>dolt and there must be some other explanation, but as I've
>said before, it's in the nature of averages that somebody/
>something has to be below average, and thus it is that we
>have Lucy.
Unfortunately, I am under no illusion that there aren't all kinds of
boneheads with no critical thinking skills running around loose. If
anything, I have the feeling that they are the rule rather than the
exception sometimes.
YourWorstFre...@inbox.com
diddy wrote:
> in thread news:1121713526....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> lucy...@claque.net whittled the following words:
>
> >
> > Any nonviolent method would do, I believe. Jerry's method
> > worked so well with my strong-willed puppy because it was
> > one that managed to capture his attention and offer him
> > something more rewarding than the bad things he enjoyed so
> > much doing.
Yeah, kinda like HOWE HOWER DOG LOVERS motivate
their dogs to be MOORE REWARDED by GETTIN JERKED
CHOKED and SHOCKED every time they DO the BAD BEHAVIOR.
> > Lucy
>
> Different kind of dog.
Good point, diddler. A dog is a dog.
> I'm not saying Jerry's "methods"[tm] are bad.
IMAGINE? Seems you PREFER choking and shocking.
> They are methods that have been used by very
> many trainers for a very long time.
That so, diddler? CITES PLEASE?
> And they DO work,
INDEED. IN FACT, The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students ALL
OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT CURING ALL temperament
and behavior problems for ALL DOGS and ALL HANDLERS
in ALL fields BAR NONE, diddler, you freakin retard.
> and they do work on a lot of dogs.
EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC METHODS WORK ON ALL CRITTERS, diddler.
> And they worked before Jerry ever dreamed of writing them down.
You mean PLAGIARIZED from "MANY TRAINERS for a very long time."
CITES PLEASE, diddler?
> They worked before the internet.
INDEEDY. But not for "MANY TRAINERS FOR A VERY LONG
TIME" on accHOWENT of THERE AIN'T NO OTHER TRAINERS
EVER who've USED The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual EXXXCEPT Jerry's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students who
REPORT their 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS
RIGHT HERE, JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy done.
And they ALL GET THE SAME RESPONSE from you DOG ABUSING
PUNK THUG COWARD ACTIVE ACUTE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL
CASES, diddler <{); ~ ) >
> There are now better methods for many of the
> issues that he addresses.
That so? You mean like choking and shocking someMOORE, diddler?
CITES PLEASE, diddler?
> And there is NO method that works for every dog.
EXXXCEPT The Amazing Puppy WIzard's on accHOWENT OF:
The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
IN ALL FIELDS And ALL BEHAIVORS
ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> My objection to Jerry is, well, you've seen his writing style...
You mean HE DON'T HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER dogs
like HOWE you PREFER, diddler?
> And i have the same objection to many other regular
> posters for the very same reason. (minus expletitves)
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
THANK YOU for not MAKIN IT UGLY AGAIN, diddler:
Here's diddler at her best.
"Let's just say it was UGLY":
"Franticly And Desperately Demanding To Go Out,
I Finally Put Her In The barn, Locked Securely In A
Horse Stall For The Night," diddler
"My Husband Shot A Dog That Had Been Tearing Up
Trash. USING FOOTHOLD TRAPS IN THE SNOW I
FIND, IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE"
WHEN YOU CAN'T FIND ANY CATS TO SHOOT,
SHOOT HUNGRY DOGS INSTEAD FOR GETTING
IN THE GARBAGE:
diddy (d...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Oh My God
Two nights ago, Reka started acting frantic about 11pm.
I let her out. It's coyote breeding season, and she is
fascinated by them. I assumed she wanted to go out and
listen to them howling. I brought her in, and she spent
the night franticly and desperately demanding to go out.
After about 4am, I finally put her in the barn, locked
securely in a horse stall for the night.
She came in by morning, and had a normal active, playful
day. Last night, at 11pm, She franticly DEMANDED to go
out. I let her out, and brought her in. At midnight, she
DEMANDED to be let out. I let her out, but I went out
to the barn and got a crate, and decided she could
spend the rest of the night in the crate. We were NOT
going to do a repeat of the previous night AGAIN.
At 3am, she whined so loudly, I then decided not to
allow her to set a precedence of this type of behavior.
So I took her crate out to the heated gun shop and
decided to let her act out her bad behavior in peace,
and send a message that her obnoxious behavior
was not going to be tolerated.
This morning at 6am, I went out, and she had vomited
(normal looking dog food) and defecated in her crate
(not normal for Reka, but then, She normally didn't
sleep in a crate, NEVER gets corrected (she never does
anything to GET corrected for) and was probably nerves
from the outside experience, plus reprimand and solitary
confinement.)
I let her in the house while I cleaned the cage. Hoping
I had made my point. She acted healthy and normal, and
playful and chipper. But then I noticed a spot of blood on
the bathroom linoleum and in the bathtub. I was the last to
take a bath, so I knew REKA was the last in the tub.
That blood didnt come from me, so it HAD to come from
Reka. Thinking about her nearing the end of her heat cycle,
I still didnt think a lot about it. I thought her obnoxious
behavior the past couple nights WAS her heat cycle..
and corresponding coyote breeding season.
Then while feeding her breakfast, I saw the whole story.
She had blood (fresh) streaming from her RECTUM. UhOh.
I had her at the vets office this morning before he
opened. He just said her intestines were all bunched
up with huge air pockets.
Was there any chance that she ate strings of carpets? I
said, last Thursday we took a plastic tarp out of the yard
that we had over the grill to protect it from the weather
because she was chewing it. That would explain
EVERYTHING.
The strings are binding and bunching up her intestines,
cutting her internally and tying her intestines in knots as
it works its way through.
Reka is in a very critical situation. She is going to
require extensive and expensive surgery that I cant
afford. I will manage.
Even with the surgery, her condition will be critical
for awhile. Scary thoughts. I would never have
treated her the way I did last night, if I had even a
clue that she was sick. I feel so badly.
--
diddy
==================================
From: diddy (d...@diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Dog Shot, Neighbor Charged, Anchorage AK
Date: 2002-11-08 07:00:27 PST
I guess if I felt Danny was threatened, it's the way
I would react. There would be none left standing
to deal with the threat just in case.
If someone hurt him, I would not let borders or
continents stop me from pursuing justice.
Then again, I always feed Danny INSIDE. If
someone is feeding his dog outside, his own
dog might not mean THAT much to him.
If he was feeding his dog outside though, many
dogs are food aggressive, and that could most
certainly spark a dog aggression thing.
(and if the dog was penned quietly outside, what
was it doing in his yard?)
I shot a neighbors dog one night for chasing my
horses and called him to help me find it. I would
do the same for threatening my dog.
My husband shot a dog that had been tearing up
trash up and down our road for years making an
unbelievable mess.
When we finally killed the culprit, the whole road
cheered. Animal control had never been able in
years to catch this critter. (we think it was feral it
was certainly unkempt enough to have been....
and it had been shot at by MANY of the neighbors,
but it never frightened it off enough to keep it from
NOT tearing up the road the next trash day)
---------------------------------
From: diddy
(d...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: What would you do in this situation?
Date: 2002-05-31 14:49:22 PST
Actually, I borrowed the vets office kitten once for a
couple days for school education on pet care and safe
handling as well as responsible pet ownership.
I kept the kitten over night in a crate within a crate
and yet my dog (yes, Angelic Danny, as well as Taya
and Toby tore that kittne to threads from between the
crate bars. (apparently he stuck his paws through the
crate to bat at the dogs. I was out doing yard work
and rushed in to find the little kittens pieces and
parts being torn through by ALL the dogs.
I called my girl friend to come get my dogs. I screamed
displeasure, and stalked out with the kitten. Danny, et
al spent 3 days in a kennel until I finally felt like I
could interact with them without doing bodily harm. All
three dogs were never touched, but knew they had done
something so unspeakable that I wouldn't associate with
them and they got banished.
To this day, Taya (mom and Dad's dog) and Danny will not
look at a cat. When confronted with one, Danny wees
himself and cowers hiding behind me for help.
I'm not saying this would work this way with all dogs,
But mom and dad now have a house cat, and she has never
been harmed by any of the dogs. Danny is there all the
time, unsupervised, and has no interest in harming the cat.
-------------------------------------------------------
From: diddy (d...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: cats : Crating/Caging: What constitutes abuse?
Date: 2002-08-23 09:18:08 PST
Lyn wrote:
> > You know I'm a cat abuser because I let my cat out.
> > Alison
> Well, it totally depends upon where you live, as to whether
> or not doing so is in the best interest of your animal.
> Abuser isn't a term I would use, and I am a "cat group"
> regular.
Here it would be abuse. If you like your cat you keep it
home. I run a state authorized and monitored nuisance
animal trapline.
This morning there was a cat in a snare. Ordinarily,
an animal caught in a snare can be released unharmed.
One of the animals I am targeting is coyotes (and the
complaint was that coyotes were killing area cats)
Duh.. If your cats are becoming lunch for wild animals,
to me .. It makes sense to keep your cats in where they
can't become lunch.. whatever.
Regarding this cat in the snare. It went nuts. It leaped,
and tangled itself, and most certainly strangulated it's
intestines. It had the snare pulled tight down to the
diameter of a dime (just large enough to encircle the
spine) around the waist area.
This cats snarled, and attacked. Trying to extricate this cat
was exceedingly difficult, not to mention dangerous. Because
I feared damage to the intestines and death of the gut, I
imagined this cat was not likely to survive.
It would have been much simpler to dispatch the unfortunate
cat and take out the dead body. Instead, this cat wore a
collar. it deserved a chance, and the owner deserved closure.
(no id on the collar) .
It escaped, just as I released it and it couldn't be taken to
the vet for examination. I will probably never know if this
particular cat survives the experience or not.
People in the area were aware that trapping was being done and
apparently still let their cats run free, b oth endangered by
the traps and by the coyotes being targeted that are causing a
problem with their cat population.
Had that cat not been wearing a collar, I would not have tried
to release this hostile cat. Releasing it may not have been a
kindness, but then... cats weren't supposed to be attracted to
this type of trap, in this position, and then they weren't
supposed to go ape, to get themselves in this situation.
If you like your pet, you keep them home.
======================================
"diddy" <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9554DA8...@216.196.97.142...
> in thread news:cgshq9$u2n$1...@uwm.edu: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
> (Marshall Dermer) whittled the following words:
> > Sad. Why do we love them so?
>
> Because you will never again in your life
> experience so much honor, nobility, honesty,
> loyalty, and altruistic caring.and true love.
diddy wrote:
I certainly was NOT going to keep him, Nor was
I going to throw him away. I was going to go the
distance and get him back home (we fixed some
other problems while he was here) He's now a
happy and great dog, although I wasn't so fond
of him when he first came, and although we grew
close, the whole experience was not among my
fondest memories, until the end.
I needed to redirect his energies. He used escape for
entertainment. Once I gave him very many jobs to do,
and taught him LOTS of positive job skills to redirect
his energies. Once he found positive alternatives, he
finally forgot his negative behaviors which were severely
entrenched by the time I got him.
The first 6 months were awful for both of us.
-------------------------------------------------
All the "awful"-ness was caused by diddy. Just as all
the awfulness of the blood coming out of Reka's rectum
was caused by diddy and her INSANE need to prevent
her dog with "getting away" with anything (such as telling
diddy she was deathly ill).
Only she led you to believe that she was the hero.
Kind2dogs wrote:
> That's fine. I like to hear all different opinions.
> Now about that rescues dog doing such, how
> long was he alone for,to do such destruction?
diddy wrote:
I think 4 hours or so, I had put him in a supposedly
"Secure" place, while I had to leave. When I got
home, he had trashed my house. From then on,
when I left, he got put in the horse stall.
He trashed my horse stall.
He then got a new horse stall, wore a E-collar,
I electrified the perimeter of the stall and we
were finally able to contain him while we worked
on his escape problems.
Once he learned that I was more determined to
defeat him, he finally subdued. But escaping, to
him was a game.
Both of us had a throughly miserable time during
the stand off. The dog is actually now a very good
citizen. He just had to meet someone more determined,
and stubborn and willing to go the distance to do what it
took, before he would stop.
Like I said, I thought he and I were going
to grow old together.
I am not going to go into exactly where we
went before we got that accomplished.
Let's just say it was "ugly"
------------------------------
"diddy" <d...@diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95D87E1...@216.196.97.142...
> in thread news:XxUDd.1053$ef6...@fe39.usenetserver.com:
> "Sarah" <glyce...@alltel.net> whittled the following words:
> > Anyone have any suggestions for a golden (1yr old)
> > who won't stop retrieving my son's toys, especially
> > stuffed animals.
> I have an elkhound that does this all day long.
> I simply take it from her, put it on my desk,
> and give her a cookie and tell her "THANK YOU"
> She never stops either ;)
IOW, you got THE SAME PROBLEM and NO METHOD,
eh diddler?
> As a result, my desk top looks like a disaster area,
Duh? You need a EXXXCUSE?
> and when I can't find my monitor any more, I take a
> huge sweep of the arm and knock them all on
> the floor.
And do it again...
> Then she goes to work picking them all up again,
> insuring that NOTHING ever touches the floor.
Yeah...
> I feel blessed.
INDEEDY!
> I used to have TWO compulsive retrieving elkhounds
Your dogs are HYPERACTIVE on accHOWENT of you ABUSE THEM, diddler.
> working overtime!
IN FACT, you CAN'T STOP THEM.
That's what the OP wanted to learn HOWE to do, diddler.
REMEMBER?
> Ahhhh for those days again!
You been takin your anti psychotic medications, diddler?
> I want the original back!
You got it, diddler.
> A full desk means I'm loved.
That so?
> Whoops, Danny And Taya run away from
> unsecured yard and imbecile owner.
>
> Will they survive life out in
> the wilderness our amongst the coyote traps?
>
> Will they get mistaken for coyotes and sold
> to the highest bidder at the fur auction?
> Or will they live again to do a help dummy
> diddy do a demonstration on safe and
> responsible pet ownership in the
> kitchen with the vet's office kitten?
>
> Stay tuned, fans...
From: Kathy Levee (kle...@zoo.uvm.edu)
> Subject: Off Topic --MISSING DOGS
> Date: 1999/04/14
>
> I realize this has absolutely nothing to do with
> Disney. Parks, but since those of us on this
> newsgroup are from all over the country, I thought
> you would understand this one time intrusion. We
> are desperate to find these dogs....Please, if you
> have any information, contact the e-mail address
> at the bottom of the note. Thank you for your
> understanding.........
>
> Karyl Parks' (aka diddler) dog Danny - Ch. Alpha's
> Decorum (I think that is his correct registered name) is
> missing . For those that have never met Danny -
> he is very special. Both trained for Search and
> Rescue
You'd think the dog could find his
own way back to his HOWES???
> as well as service dog trained, CDX, etc.
But IT can't find ITS way back to his own HOWES?
> He does all the things that service dogs do
Like run HOWET on his people and not return?
> from opening doors, turning on lights, getting
> clothes and shoes.
You FORGOT MURDERIN the vet's office kitty kat
and escaping and destructively chewing a rug and
gettin locked in a box in an HOWEtbuilding to muffle
his CRYING till he was SHITTIN BLOOD and went in
for intestinal obstruction.
> He is a marvel.
Naaah. You want a MARVEL? Marvel at that
STUPID KAT that PAINICKED when diddler
snared IT in her leg hold STRANGLE / CHOKE
choke trap. She'd have BLUDGEONED IT had
IT not been wearin a collar. Perhaps she was
lookin for a REWARD, bein a SUBSISTANCE
hunter and all.
> He is nine years old but does not
> show his age - he is about 60 pounds 22 1/2
> inches, dark face. By tomorrow I will have a
> picture available.
>
> Monday night he was put out to do his business
> along with Taya another elkie. At 10:00pm - both
> he and Taya were gone from Karyl's yard.
>
> She heard nothing and the gate was open but
> opened inward. Danny was neutered in the last
> year so is not of any use to anyone for breeding.
>
> Karyl has handed out over 1,200 flyers today -
> gone to the schools where Danny was well
> known - he did demonstrations, talked to
> neighbors and combed the neighborhood.
>
> She lives in farm
> country outside Greenville, Ohio.
>
> Danny is a tall elkie - very handsome -
> microchipped. I am looking for a picture I took
> when he visited here two years ago. He was not
> wearing a collar when lost. Karyl will talk to
> postal workers, garbage truck drivers, county
> road crews, meter readers, tomorrow - has
> already contacted law enforcement and shelters.
>
> Please for anyone in the area or who can cross
> post this to other lists do it. This dog is Karyl's
> life and she can not imagine life without him.
>
> Taya - also an elkhound her parents dog - spayed
> female five years old. Small size - I think only
> about 18 inches. They could be together or
> separate - Taya did have a collar on. Do not
> know if she is microchipped.
>
> Karyl's email is kpa...@bright.net
>
> Thank you for your understanding......we're
> posting this to every list we are involved with
> and pray for their safe return.
Ummm, better RETHINK THAT. Your PAL diddler
is a Satanist or somethin weird like that.
> Kathy
>
> =================================
diddy wrote:
I certainly was NOT going to keep him, Nor was
I going to throw him away. I was going to go the
distance and get him back home (we fixed some
other problems while he was here) He's now a
happy and great dog, although I wasn't so fond
of him when he first came, and although we grew
close, the whole experience was not among my
fondest memories, until the end.
I needed to redirect his energies. He used escape for
entertainment. Once I gave him very many jobs to do,
and taught him LOTS of positive job skills to redirect
his energies. Once he found positive alternatives, he
finally forgot his negative behaviors which were severely
entrenched by the time I got him.
The first 6 months were awful for both of us.
-------------------------------------------------
All the "awful"-ness was caused by diddy. Just as all
the awfulness of the blood coming out of Reka's rectum
was caused by diddy and her INSANE need to prevent
her dog with "getting away" with anything (such as telling
diddy she was deathly ill).
Only she led you to believe that she was the hero.
Kind2dogs wrote:
> That's fine. I like to hear all different opinions.
> Now about that rescues dog doing such, how
> long was he alone for,to do such destruction?
diddy wrote:
I think 4 hours or so, I had put him in a supposedly
"Secure" place, while I had to leave. When I got
home, he had trashed my house. From then on,
when I left, he got put in the horse stall.
He trashed my horse stall.
He then got a new horse stall, wore a E-collar,
I electrified the perimeter of the stall and we
were finally able to contain him while we worked
on his escape problems.
Once he learned that I was more determined to
defeat him, he finally subdued. But escaping, to
him was a game.
Both of us had a throughly miserable time during
the stand off. The dog is actually now a very good
citizen. He just had to meet someone more determined,
and stubborn and willing to go the distance to do what it
took, before he would stop
Like I said, I thought he and I were going
to grow old together.
I am not going to go into exactly where we
went before we got that accomplished.
Let's just say it was "ugly"
You call tying the dog to a wall training, diddler, like
HOWE you trained your fence to train your dog?
diddy wrote:
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> We have a beagle. Before we got our last one, we
> knew what to expect and spent a year re-enforcing the fence.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> What we did.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> Double fencing, hardware cloth lined on the inside.
> Wood ties under gates. A chicken wire apron extending
> out into the yard 12 inches. (hog ringed to the upright
> fencing). We chose chicken wire because it was flexible
> and ground conforming. grass grows right over it, making
> it invisible and easy to mow over. It's tacked down by tent
> stakes every 10 inches. (this is our most considerable
> investment)
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> The problems with it is that it eventually disintegrates,
> rusts, pulls apart and need repair a lot. We placed tile
> blocks over the top, because the tent stakes stick up,
> and sometimes get hit by the lawnmower.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> Overall, it's a pretty decent system and works
> MOST of the time.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> The beagle is persistent, and tends to work the inner
> fencing, that's flimsy down, or tear it, making exit holes.
> We recently cut down a couple yard trees that broke down
> sections of the fence and they need re-enforcement.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> When the weather breaks, a whole new fence
> is in order, but the system works MOST of the time.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> We did install an underground perimeter E-fence
> at the fence line, and found a single strand 12 inch
> high electric cattle fence around the perimeter was
> just as effective, cheaper, less bothersome (no need
> to wear heavy e-collars.. especially that mess up coats),
> but both needed occassional maintenence.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> What we did.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> I admit our system fails occassionally, especially
> when snow drifts are over the top of the fences
> and erase any identifiable fenceline.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> We installed (BEFORE getting the beagle) a 100
> foot trolly line that crosses the yard.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> This is a safe, effective restraint system that has
> always worked when immediate repairs or extra
> security is desired.
>
> If I go away and leave the beagle outside. He goes
> to the trolly line, whether the containment system
> is currently working or not.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> It's great for emergency situations, and the $17
> last resort system gets used for the beagle far
> more than I ever expected. It still allows reasonable
> exercise range of area and mobility. The elkhounds
> and the beagle still play avidly, and it's the cheapest
> piece of mind security ever.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> A trolly tether system is the best for temporary
> containment while discovering where the leak
> is. In the snow, it's easy to discover the
> leak. In the summer, it's more difficult.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> I do not like, or use our current underground collar system
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
YourWorstFre...@inbox.com
abuser coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN,
Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
> lucy...@claque.net wrote in
> news:1121713526....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
> > diddy wrote:
> <snip>
> >> when I was growing up, we had a dog we got from the
> >> humane society. I never saw a dog so sound sensitive.
ONLY ABUSED DOGS FEAR LHOWED NOISES, dog lovers.
> >> If you closed a book, the whooshing sound sent her
> >> skittering under the piano bench shivering.
Well then, PRAISING him would EXXXTINGUISH his FEAR.
WOULDN'T IT, marcel the imbecile.
> >> I can't imagine the damage a penny can would do to her.
Of curse not, on accHOWENT of diddler is a freakin retard.
> >> A meaningful stare was a strong correction.
THAT'S HOWE COME THE DOG WAS AFRAID.
> >> That was all the corrections she ever needed.
THAT'S ALL IT TAKES TO MAKE A DOG FEARFUL, dog lovers.
> >> She had a very strong desire to please.
diddler means she was VERY SUBMISSIVE, dog lovers.
> >> Just be quiet about it, please?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> >> Danny was very sensitive,
Duh-Oh?
> >> and a strong correction for him was
> >> NOT meeting his eyes with yours.
Oh... diddler means IGNORING him worked as PUNISHMENT for Danny.
> >> No penny cans (nor choke collars, nor e-collars)
> >> for him either.
IMAGINE? Seems THAT don't jive with diddler's
POSTED CASE HISTORY, abHOWET Danny:
diddler wrote:
"Actually, I borrowed the vets office kitten once for a
couple days for school education on pet care and safe
handling as well as responsible pet ownership.
I kept the kitten over night in a crate within a crate
and yet my dog (yes, Angelic Danny, as well as Taya
and Toby tore that kittne to threads from between the
crate bars.
To this day, Taya (mom and Dad's dog) and Danny will not
look at a cat. When confronted with one, Danny wees
himself and cowers hiding behind me for help."
> Whoops, Danny And Taya run away from
You'd think Danny the "MARVEL" WONder dog
could find his own way back to his HOWES???
> as well as service dog trained, CDX, etc.
But IT can't find ITS way back to his own HOWES?
> He does all the things that service dogs do
Like run HOWET on his people and not return?
> from opening doors, turning on lights, getting
> clothes and shoes.
You FORGOT MURDERIN the vet's office kitty kat
and escaping and destructively chewing a rug and
gettin locked in a box in an HOWEtbuilding to muffle
his CRYING till he was SHITTIN BLOOD and went in
for intestinal obstruction.
> He is a marvel.
Naaah. You want a MARVEL? Marvel at that
STUPID KAT that PAINICKED when diddler
snared IT in her leg hold STRANGLE / CHOKE
choke trap. She'd have BLUDGEONED IT had
IT not been wearin a collar. Perhaps she was
lookin for a REWARD, bein a SUBSISTANCE
hunter and all.
Well diddler, so much for your Danny, eh diddler?
> > You don't have to use a penny can on a dog who is
> > sensitive to sounds. You can use a snap of your fingers,
> > your keys, the sound made by a plastic bag suddenly moved,
> > or any environmental sound that happens at the right time.
All you gotta do is STOP CHOKING and SHOCKING
BRIBING and CRATING your dogs and PRAISE them
when you'd PREFER to HURT and INTIMDIATE them.
> You don't get it, do you.
Seems Lucy got her dog's trained NEARLY
INSTANTLY and FOR FREE, to boot, UNLIKE
your own dog who bit your mrs. and grHOWELS
at your brother for as long as he visits on
accHOWENT of HE LOOKS LIKE you.
Your own dog GRHOWELS at you when you
carry the newspaper. REMEMBER marcel
the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser
phd psychoclHOWEN?
> For some dogs, sound sensitive is sound
> sensitive, no matter what the sound.
THAT'S INSANE, dog abuser.
> If it startles them,
Then you PRAISE the dog and he AIN'T SCARED
noMOORE UNLESS you been jerkin and chokin IT
like HOWE you done your own fear aggressive
dog who BIT YOUR wife, marcel the imbecile.
> it is a bad thing.
You mean, like puttin MHOWES TRAPS in the
FLHOWER beds to HURT a innocent dog bein
walked indiscriminately on leash like HOWE
you told bentcajungirl aka perry to do?
AND THEN you told her to LIE abHOWET it
if she GOT CAUGHT HURTIN the man's dog.
REMEMBER marcel the imbecile idiot liar
dog abuser coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> Another point you should consider is that using
> an environmental noise is rarely successful.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAHAAA!!!
THAT'S INSANE, marcel the imbecile idiot liar
dog abuser coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN.
> If we couldrely on an environmental noise to distract
> dogs from doing something (bad or good) than they would
> never do anything at all.
INDEED. HOWEver, you'd have to KNOW HOWE to USE IT,
marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser coward
mental case phd psychoclHOWEN JUST LIKE HOWE The
Amazing Puppy Wizard and ALL HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUl FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL
WILD WORLD REPORT RIGHT HERE JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy
done <{); ~ ) >
You and your MENTALLY ILL PALS call them LIARS
and their posts FORGERIES. REMEMBER marcel the
imbecile idiot liar dog abuser coward mental
case phd psychoclHOWEN?
> how is the dog supposed to know if a noise they
> heard is an environmental noise they are supposed
> to acknowledge as a distraction,
On accHOWENT of the PROLONGED NON PHYSICAL
PRAISE INSTANTLY FOLLOWIN IT, you simpleton.
Naaah. You AIN'T a SIMPLETON, you're a UNIVERSITY
GRADUATE, A SCIENTIST, remember, you imbecile?
Ooops! You AIN'T a IMBICILE like diddler,
you're a DOG ABUSING MENTALLY ILL LIAR
JUST LIKE DIDDLER <{); ~ ) >
> or just something that they can ignore.
NO PROBLEMO, marcel the DOG ABUSING COWARD.
THAT'S HOWE COME you got to use VARIABLY
ALTERNATING S-HOWENDS, mr university trained
SCIENTIST <{); ~ ) >
> Take a hunting dog for example.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
A DOG IS A DOG, dog abuser.
> I am pretty sure (and HJM and Kate
kate aka kwbrown MURDERED HER OWN DEAD DOG
Teena on accHOWNET of she COULDN'T STOP
HURTING IT someMOORE.
REMEMBER you freakin lyin dog abusing mental case?
> can probably back me up on this)
INDEEDY! THAT'S HOWE COME YOU BUMS CAN'T POST
HERE ABHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE. REMEMBER?
> that you do not want a hunting dog distracted
> by envoironmental sounds.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You mean like the BZZZT of their SHOCK COLLARS,
marcel the imbecile liar dog abuser coward active
acute long term incurable MENTAL CASE phd psychoclHOWEN?
> Marcel and Moogli
> http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
Here, for review, Lynn K.
is your inarguably "confrontational" approach
and advice for how you would have handled Teena
contrasted with Charlie's "non confrontational"
approach:
From: Lynn K. (java...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: When is euth. warranted?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2004-02-07 17:15:58 PST
Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message <news:l8982014t0khvkba1...@4ax.com>...
> A lot of people here, including Janet Boss and
> Spinach, appear to operate on a completely different
> set of principles, driven more by their attitude than
> by what is most effective.
> I do not believe any of the people whose books I
> have read recently would suggest that daily
> grooming of a dog who has just snapped at it's
> owner during a grooming, is a good idea. The
> sources at my disposal say DON'T gratuitously
> repeat a situation that causes a dog to behave
> aggressively. Change the way you interact with
> the dog to change the dog's responses, slowly
> and carefully.
You'd be wrong. I'd have that dog on the grooming table
several times a day, and I'd bet any number of other
trainers would, too. I'd feed the dog on the grooming
table. I'd brush and treat for 1 minute, then 2, then 3.
IOW, desensitize the dog and build tolerance.
Lynn K.
> We sure can try, but a dog who knows a command and growls
> when given it is certainly being "confrontational". You
> can't simply walk away and pretend it didn't happen or
> leave it for later work in every situation.
> Lynn K.
A confrontational Toxic Mommy cannot hide her
true colors. You and Janet have been exposed
(as if anyone had any doubts).
So, to summarize this mess for my fans:
You, (Lynn K.) as usual, are a triple talking
hypocrite. You are a decidedly Confrontational
Trainer, one who uses confrontation while
training, despite the fact that you say that
"confrontation is not training."
Following your advice, Teena would have been
dead just as soon, if not sooner, if you were
involved, especially if you were the trainer
AND the "evaluator"
Teena was dead meat any way you slice it, if
you were involved. And you WERE involved, due
to the vigorous dog murdering moral support
you gave to KW Brown.
With Charlie's non confrontational approach,
backed by the writer YOU TOLD HIM to read,
and the writer/Trainer YOU chatted with about
Charlie,
and...
despite the fact that Charlie doesn't have 40
plus years of experience training and murdering
dogs, Teena would have had an extremely good
chance of not being murdered in his relatively
novice hands.
Teena would still be alive.
Teena was murdered because a Toxic Mommy
can't admit she is wrong. And a Toxic Mommy
can't accept criticism. Especially when it
comes from a heelpless dog. That's what Teena
was expressing. Criticism.
And for that, she got death.
As appropriate per you and all the other Toxic
Mommies in the audience.
HOPE THAT HEELPS!!
WELCOME TO THE NEW MUZZLE
Your kind is quickly going EXTINCT
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!
michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
Local: Tues,Feb 4 2003 10:36 am
Subject: Dog presentation to young children
Hi, everyone.
I've been asked to give a five-to-ten minute presentation
on dogs to my daughter's Sparks (proto-Brownies - they wear
pink and have a blast being little girls together) troop.
I think I will take Teena the Springer, as she's smaller
and less threatening to a 5-y-o than Storm the FCR. Besides,
Teena has a few Stupid Dog Tricks in her repetoire, and they
should be entertaining.
Given short attention spans and short available time: what
five things do you think would be the best to say to the kids?
I think it's:
Dogs like to be taken care of - food, water, grooming (brush
pretty dog) Dogs like to learn what to do - training (demonstrate
stupid dog tricks) Dogs are full of love for their people and need
to count on their family Dogs need to be handled carefully - be
considerate to your dog Some dogs can be cranky with kids - so ask
the dog's owner before you get too close.
Ideas?
Kate in Victoria
From: KWBrown <arfenarfNOS...@hotmail.com>
Date: 20 Jan 2004 22:46:29 GMT
Local: Tues,Jan 20 2004 5:46 pm
Subject: Re: Snapping
Janet, I really appreciate your thoughts on this.
j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss) wrote in
news:20040120172814...@mb-m03.aol.com:
> I went to an interesting seminar this weekend (can't walk
> or drive for another several weeks but had a friend play
> chauffer and wheelchair pusher to attend!).
> It was on FCR temperament, but the presenters really felt
> that while things like an attack and lack of socialization
> have SOME impact, it all comes down to genetic temperament.
Dang, that sounds marvelous.
If you have electronic slide notes, I'd love a copy.
> Did you correct the lip curling?
With a casual "knock it off already" and a change to brushing
another place.
> Did she react to being felt all over? OR was it the grooming
> tool she objected to?
Didn't mind the pat down at all. It's an interesting thought
about the tool. I was using the pin-side of a double-headed
brush. She usually flops on her side and seems to like the
brush-out.
> I'd be going with a NILIF approach and daily grooming/training
> sessions. And watching very carefully.
Very carefully. She lives a near-NILIF life anyway: it's been
part of the deal since we realized what an Interesting dog we had.
> That said, I don't trust the breed in general, and not a
> questionable specimen.
> What anyone chooses to live with is another story.
> I'm surprised she handled well enough to get her CH, given
> her reaction to men.
I knew we had a nutty dog - and chose to put the work into
making her a good household companion - but there are too
many children in and out of my house to tolerate a dangerous
dog.
Thanks so much for your input:
it will help us sort out whether we're looking at nutty or dangerous.
Kate
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com>;
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:15:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Snapping
On 20 Jan 2004 19:35:53 GMT, KWBrown <arfenarfNOS...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!"
> and switched to brushing another part of her. Later, I
> felt her over and couldn't find any obvious reason that
> she might have been uncomfortable.
Ok, that kind of handling is bound to make matters much worse,
guaranfuckenteed. If that is how you handle dogs, you've got a
problem.
Charlie
From: KWBrown <arfenarfNOS...@hotmail.com>
Date: 10 Feb 2004 17:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: When is euth. warranted?
Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
news:o40i205pl33a7e8bn...@4ax.com:
> Here is what Kate wrote:
> <Xns9476762AC6362arfenarfNOSPAMhot...@130.133.1.4>
>Last night, she was lying on the floor while I brushed her out.
>I didn't feel any mats or knots in her coat, but she started
>curling her lip. I shifted her into a different position and
>started brushing an ear. She turned and snapped at the air near
>the hand with the brush.
>I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!" and
>switched to brushing another part of her. Later, I felt her
>over and couldn't find any obvious reason that she might have
>been uncomfortable.
> Is that really someone who understands desensitizing?
Charlie:
Of course I understand desensitizing - my original question
came from bafflement that this dog had, after years and years
of daily brushing sessions, decided that this was the time to
give me a hard time about it. Read carefully what you posted
above: There were no mats in her coat. This was not a painful
experience.
I chose to brush another part of her body after the lip
curl in case something under the coat where I had been
working was uncomfortable - and was rewarded with a snap.
Desnsitizing had worked well for her when she came to us -
it's how we got her more comfortable with fifty-year-old men
(thanks to a neighbour who spent night after night "accidentally"
perambulating around the block so we could get her to the point
where she looked to me for treats instead of going into attack
mode at the sight of him. She had always accepted grooming.
That snap was a shocker.
Letting her go un-groomed for more than about three days
would have left her a matted mess and then subject to a
clean-up that *would* have been uncomfortable - I was
asking: what to do? How to manage, how to re-train?
We were building a plan that included desensitzing her to
grooming and a physical check to see if anything else was
wrong. Unfortunately, she then demonstrated that the
unpredictable snapping was not at all limited to grooming
or handling - she snapped at my son for being in her space.
That is when we went from "how to manage this new behavior"
to "oh, dear."
You disapprove of my response to the grooming snap. I
certainly wasn't inclined to pat her on the head and give
her a cookie. Nor was I at all interested in letting her
get away with that without comment.
Coated dogs don't get to decide when they get brushed out.
There's room for an ethical debate: should we breed dogs
who need brushing? Since the vast majority of those coated
dogs who are in the world don't mind it a bit, I don't think
there's a big problem.
So: The Teena question evolved before your eyes.
First, it was an issue of: how/when to handle this dog, who has
suddenly responded to routine, required handling differently?
Then, it became a pattern of snapping and resentful behaviour
that went from annoying-to-me to dangerous in our household.
Recalls went to pieces. Her favourite training routines were
met with resentment. She had decided, quite suddenly, that
Storm was no longer allowed on our dock. And she had tried
to bite two members of the family.
I believe, and I have two vets, a behaviourist, a trainer,
and the dog's own breeder backing me on this, that Teena
was a fundamentally unstable dog (ref: history in the original
post if you want) who, with management (my management, of
which you disapprove) and *tons* of training over the years,
got a lot better.
Even at her best, however, we spent a lot of energy managing
her life and environment so she wouldn't get into fights with
dogs or freak out at a strange person.
Despite that work, however, she eventually went to pieces.
It turns out, incidentally, that the housebreaking accidents
that we had been blaming on Storm have suddenly stopped.
Teena was probably disintegrating more than we knew, longer
than we ever suspected.
For the record, the breeder has pulled two planned litters
this year and is probably going to have to start her entire
program over. One wonky dog was a fluke. Two in the line
is a pattern, and she's re-thinking everything.
Charlie, you might have been able to perform miracles with this
dog - we'll never know - but I did the best I could for years and
had great results until this last slide.
I require a dog with a bulletproof temperament in my household.
I coddled along a dog with a wonky one for as long as I possibly
could. Assuming that you would have found a way to keep any
living creature from pissing her off, and that you could have
somehow managed to groom her without getting bit, I'm sure she
could have lived longer with you than with us.
Since, however, you aren't running a shelter for aggressive
dogs, I had to do what I had to do and won't apologize for it.
Kate
From: KWBrown <arfenarfNOS...@hotmail.com>
Date: 20 Jan 2004 22:25:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Snapping
Handsome Jack Morrison <me10...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
news:me6r00hn0jsm3faev...@4ax.com:
> The behavior you're describing *might* be the first expression
> of a behavior known as Rage Syndrome, or idiopathic aggression.
Rage came to mind and is what worries me most. At the same time,
I know other behavioural issues are often mis-diagnosed as this,
and that Springer Rage is truly rare.
I have a call in to the breeder and would love to tap
some ESS expertise. Mindy, are you out there?
> I'd have her checked out by your vet, just in case there is
> a physical explanation of some kind, but I don't think he or
> she will find any.
Have booked the appointment. I agree with you, but this is
an important step in eliminating other possibilities.
> I really don't have a very good feeling about it,
> considering the way it happened.
> Kate, you can cross your fingers and just hope that
> it was an isolated incident (I'll even cross mine, too!).
They're crossed, and I don't have a very good feeling
about this, either. My heart sank when it happened.
Would you continue grooming the dog? Stay away from ears?
Take her warning signals seriously? If I can't brush her
regularly, I'm going to have to cut her down, which would
be a crime. Still, I guess cut down is better than put down.
I have asked the children to give her a wide berth and lay
off patting her, in case she is in some kind of pain.
Kate
From: _michael <mich...@ddddogtv.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:15:24 GMT
Subject: Re: Snapping
Ah, that's just what got her in trouble. Being a toxic mommy.
And now she's got The Queen of Toxic Mommies advising
her. This will almost ensure that KW gets bit.
Hello fans,
=========================================
Here is a quote from the sharpest mind in the dog game (aka, mine)
(can I have a drum roll please?)
"The VAST MAJORITY of dog bites occur because
of too much aggression. By the Human.
Too aggressive in their assumptions.
Too aggressive in their play.
Too aggressive in their discipline.
Too aggressive in their approach.
Too aggressive in their grooming.
Too pushy, too hasty, too busy, in
too much of a hurry, etc, etc..."
michael patton
ceo of dogtv.com networks
===============================================
this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
J1Boss wrote:
>>From: KWBrown
>>Teena is a 4-year-old spayed ESS. ..... behaviour comes from 1) being
> attacked by an older bitch in
>> the breeder's household when she was a 8-week-old pup and 2)
>> a general lack of socialization outside the breeder's home.
> I went to an interesting seminar this weekend (can't walk or drive for another
> several weeks but had a friend play chauffer and wheelchair pusher to attend!).
> It was on FCR temperament, but the presenters really felt that while things
> like an attack and lack of socialization have SOME impact, it all comes down to
> genetic temperament. I'm not sure I don't feel that the socialization ans such
> don't play a larger role than they thought it did, but I do think that dogs are
> who they are for the most part, and the rest is management of some sort.
>> She is a very high-drive, sometimes pushy dog, but she and I
>> have built a strong relationship, using the Obedience training
>> as a tool.
>> Last night, she was lying on the floor while I brushed her out.
>> I didn't feel any mats or knots in her coat, but she started
>> curling her lip. I shifted her into a different position and
>> started brushing an ear. She turned and snapped at the air
>> near the hand with the brush.
> Did you correct the lip curling?
>> I glared at her and said, "Don't you EVER do that again!"
>> and switched to brushing another part of her. Later, I
>> felt her over and couldn't find any obvious reason that
>> she might have been uncomfortable.
> Did she react to being felt all over? OR was it the
> grooming tool she objected to?
>> So. What to do now? She usually puts up with any kind
>> of grooming with a sigh and a shrug.
> There could be a lot of reasons for her being more sensitive to the grooming
> TOOL that may not involve any pain issues. Weather, static, cold, etc may come
> into play. Still, a dog wanting to get away is one thing, a dog curling a lip
> and snapping is quite another.
>> I don't like being snapped at, but I don't want to
>> shut down any early warning signs. How would you go at this?
> I'd be going with a NILIF approach and daily grooming/training
> sessions. And watching very carefully.
>> thinking of having the vet check her over fo/r any discomfort
>> I may have missed. At the same time, I'm worried that she will
>> decide that she has control over whether or not I choose to brush
>> her and when.
> Again - how about the same actions with just your hands?
> A vet check is definitely in order of course.
> That said, I don't trust the breed in general, and not a
> questionable specimen. What anyone chooses to live with
> is another story. I'm surprised she handled well enough
> to get her CH, given her reaction to men.
> First, the vet check. Then, behavior modification re:grooming
> tolerance. Following that, close observation of ANY subtle changes
> in her behavior that indicate her becoming a serious offender.
> Janet Boss
> Best Friends Dog Obedience
> "Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
> Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.co m
From: KWBrown <arfenarfSPAMBL...@hotmail.com>
Date: 21 Jan 2004 05:36:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Snapping
Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in
news:Xns9476D0D6A857Bau...@rocky-dog.com:
> KWBrown said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>> Teena is a 4-year-old spayed ESS.
> I know Teena somewhat, she's a very good dog. Something that
> comes on so quickly has *got* to be medical, at least I hope it
> is.
> I have no advice beyond what others have offered.
> Good wishes Kate.
Thanks, Matt.
We'll find out more from the vet Thursday afternoon. I'm
probably going to ask for blood panels as well as a physical
to see if there's anything out of whack that might not be
immediately obvious.
My trainer will be boarding both girls the following week
and will see what she can learn while we're away.
Carefully, of course.
Kate
--
Kate
Teena the ESS, Storm the FCR
From: KWBrown <arfenarfNOS...@hotmail.com>
Date: 22 Jan 2004 15:11:43 GMT
Local: Thurs,Jan 22 2004 10:11 am
Subject: Re: Snapping
"KrisHur" <kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:100vi463f0sv497
@corp.supernews.com:
> I just wanted to comment on showing her in obedience--you can. You can
> pretty much pick the judges you want. Just don't enter shows with male
> judges. The judging panel is available for you to see before entering a
> show.
True enough, Kristin.
The judge issue isn't the only one. I have wondered what she'd
do if some dog broke a stay during the group exercises and came
to investigate her. I don't think it's fair to anyone to put a
dog with a hinky temperament into those exercises. I can make
her hold a stay with eye contact, but the work done with the
handler out of sight makes me nervous.
At this point, I'm happy with the obedience training as a tool:
trialling isn't much of a priority.
Kate
From: "Tee" <crapolagozh...@netscape.net> r
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:35:47 -0500
Local: Tues,Jan 20 2004 8:35 pm
Subject: Re: Snapping
I've been of this school of thought since I got Summer. I've been
proven right in it several times since with other dogs. Even when
you do everything right there are some dogs who are just *not right*
upstairs. No amount of training or medication will cure them....the
latter certainly helps manage & change the symptoms and the former
can help with management but the problem is still always there IMO.
I also believe that bad temperaments are hereditary and breed more
bad temperaments. I cringe when I hear people automatically blame
a dog's aggression on abuse and/or lack of socialization.
They are probably the more common factors but certainly not
the only ones.
Take just one litter of 6 byb pups born from badly temperd parents.
Say 1/3 inherit the temperament problem. Now you have 2 badly-
tempered pups.
Its likely that those 2 pups will reproduce at least once in their
lifetimes. Say each of them has a litter of 6 a piece also. Of
those 12 new puppies, 1/3 will be affected. Now you have 4 more
badly tempered pups.
In one small area, in less than 5 years, you can have 8 badly
tempered dogs just from one line. When you think about how
rapidly byb dogs rise in number, its really not that hard to
think that genetically bad temperaments are becoming commonplace.
Btw, the 1/3 is just me using a percentage, certainly nothing
documented anywhere.
--
Tara
"Tending To Agree With The Positive Reinforcement Method"?
HOWEDY People,
Hello Tara,
"Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:n%Zy6.30496$BC6.8...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.co
m...
> I tend to agree with the positive reinforcement
> method.
Oh, that's nice. I tend to think people who tend to
agree with positive reinforcement methods tend to be
pulling our chains... That's what I tend to think,
based on my experience working with people who tend to
agree with positive reinforcement who TEND TO
hurt their dogs when their tendencies to use positive
methods are outweighed by their tendencies to run out
of information or intellect and TEND to get frustrated
and TEND NOT to do the things they TEND TO believe are
right, when they TEND to be frustrated, or TEND to be
at a loss for INTELLECT, and TEND TO resort to
violence because they TEND to be shy on BRAINS... I
TEND TO view those folks as hypocrites, that's what I
TEND to do because I just happen to TEND to be HONEST,
> IMO, shock collars should be used only after normal
> obedience training methods have failed.
If your NORMAL obedience training TENDED to properly
train dogs, there would be a TENDENCY to have well
trained dogs. But that's not the case, becasuse NORMAL
obedience training TENDS to provoke, intimidate, and
confound your dog and inhibit his ability to think
and learn to want to work and think and learn... SEE?
That's what I TEND to think about NORMAL obedience
training which TENDS to FAIL because it TENDS to
resort to VIOLENCE instead of TENDING TOWARDS
THE MOST EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC METHODS AVAILABLE.
> It just bothers me to imagine shocking my dog, even
> at a very low frequency.
It bothers me less to think of shocking the dog than
thinking about what punishment and confrontation can
do to a dog's temperament. That's what I tend to think
based on my thirty eight years professional experience
training dogs.
> I will definitely admit that there are many dogs who
> either can't or won't benefit from training without
> such things as e-collars.
Is that based on your thirty eight years of experience
specializing in temperament and behavior problems and
protection training in giant breed dogs? Or is that
based on your TENDANCY to believe incompetent dog
abusing Thugs who tell you they TEND to get excellent
results from HURTING dogs to train them because they
TEND NOT TO be intelligent enough to outwit the
cunning of the domestic puppy dog???
OR IS IT BASED ON YOUR TENDENCY TO MURDER
YOUR OWN DEAD DOG Summer?
> I just hope its a last-resort, not a first.
And I just hope you figure out why your pals here who
hurt dogs to train them TEND to claim they have me in
their killfiles, because they TEND NOT TO be able to
answer my questions in good conscience...That's what
they TEND to do around here because our lying dog
abusing Thugs TEND to be INCOMPETENT, IMMORAL,
UNETHICAL, UNPRINCIPLED, DOG ABUSING COWARDS.
Like yourself.
That's what I tend to think.
Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~}
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{) ; ~ ) >
<ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:12:11
GMT Local: Thurs, Oct 7 2004 10:12 am
Subject: "I'm Shocked That I Shocked" tara o. aka tee,
NC Boxer Rescue Abuse
HOWEDY People
Here's WON of HOWER MENTAL CASES
hurtin dogs and lying abHOWET it again.
"I'm shocked that I shocked"
"Tara O." <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bh9f81$vrac2$1...@ID-92443.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Due to someone reprimanding Jar-Jar & the word
> "rescue" in the post, I decided to read down and see
> what he was spewing now. I was able to learn that
> besides choking, pinching, crating, abusing and
> murdering my dog, I also shocked her. I must be
> suffering from amnesia.
> Can someone point me to a post where I said
> I shocked my dog, or any dog, or that I even
> know *how* to use an e-collar....assuming I had one
> which must have been stolen at the same time I lost
> my memory.
> One would think Jerry would be happy with the
> "murder" part and all my other training sins but
> evidently not.
> --
> Tara
HOWEDY tara o.,
You didn't HURT INTIMIDATE and MURFDER
your own DEAD DOG Summer:
Date: 2003-04-28 18:09:04 PST
> "Tara O." wrote:
> > Labs are a breed that are normally trained for
> > field work with ear pinches, e-collars and other
> > forms of physical interaction without making them
> > fearful or aggressive.
==============
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Dane hyper when passing other dogs
Date: 2001-04-21 12:07:54 PST
I think its pertinent to mention that I've never had
any dogs who exhibited signs of aggression or were in
any way, shape, or form resistent to whatever
"training" I did with them.
I would not feel comfortable relying on my past
experience or a book to train a dog to stop biting,
snapping or growling.
--
Tara O.
===================
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Canine Behaviors For Dummies
Date: 2001-06-11 19:42:23 PST
"joshua" <jos...@ycsi.net> wrote in message
news:9g3uoi$sc7$0...@63.90.193.133...
> I cant seem to understand why people believe prong
> collars are cruel and inhumane. They do nothing more
> than pinch, getting the attention of the animal.
> Choke collars, on the other hand, do permanent
> damage. They bruise the esophagus.
> Shock collars will eventually destroy nerve endings,
> much the same as electric fencing.
Joshua, you have just reopened a can of worms
that can quickly cause infestation here lol
--
Tara O.
===============
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: jerry howe
Date: 2001-04-04 11:58:06 PST
> People are tired of being abused and insulted simply
> for saying they use a prong collar, or a choke
> collar, or an e-collar, or a crate, etc. If you want
> to LEARN more about dog training and dog behavior,
> then listen to what they have to say, too.
"I've never not listened to what people say here.
I use a crate, am about to begin with a choke collar,
I'm not the bad guy here." tara o.
======================
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Electronic Training Collars
Date: 2001-05-11 17:29:33 PST
""Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together"" wrote
> BTW, this is one of the frequent topics on obedience
> email lists. When people say that they haven't used
> corrections, it turns out that they feel that if
> they do it, it's not a real correction. :)
That makes sense in a weird sort of way. I don't
honestly think that its humanly possible to train
anyone or anything without correction. Its human
nature to say 'no' or to stop a behavior by doing
something. I used a tin can with coins to correct
Summer's bad puppy behaviors and the cold shoulder
to correct her other less desirable behaviors. I
have said 'no' so many times that I probably sound
like a broken record. Amie can attest to that
lol.
It seems to me that some people are automatically
equating the term correction with punishment. I
guess they can go hand in hand since my tin can
wasn't something Summer liked. My ignoring her
when she's misbehaving is also something she
doesn't like. Therefore it can be viewed as
punishment? And that term is 100% negative.
Maybe if more people saw it as correction and not
the total negative, they'd be less inclined to
want to be PP.
Don't know if the way I wrote that made sense, it
makes sense in my head but then again the men with
the white coats could come a'knockin at any
moment.
Tara O.
===================
From: Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Any hope? rage?
Date: 2003-03-26 05:46:02 PST
Yes I see and understand your point. There's no such
thing as 100% vigilence 100% of the time IMO. You
could call an e-fence company to find out if its
possible to wire only your front door so that if she
gets within a certain range of that front door the
collar will start working. I'd think there would be a
way to work that and it may be inexpensive to do
so.
There are also items called Scat Mats that you place
in front of doors or any area you don't want your dog
to proceed through. When stepping on the mat, it gives
off a vibration, something which most dogs hate.
They'll stay far away from the mats. I believe you can
buy them from
--
Tara
==================
Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Need advice--barking dog
Date: 2003-08-06 17:38:14 PST
you could consider installing an invisible fence just
inside the fence line so he cannot get too close. You
could talk to your neighbor about splitting the cost
of whichever alternative you both find most
acceptable.
--
Tara
=================
From: Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Containment Collars
Date: 2003-03-11 07:12:57
I know people who have electric fences and it works
very well for them. I know people who have them and
whose dogs escape and refuse to come back in. From
the details I know of all involved, I wouldn't use an
e-fence on:
1. An adult dog that wasn't raised with the fence from
a puppy
2. A dog with a high prey drive
3. A very stubborn dog
If I put my female out in an e-fence, the very first
kid, cat, dog or squirrel she sees would have her
bolting through the barrier shock or not. When she
finally loses interest in whatever has caused her to
leave and her adrenalin has diminished, she will think
rationally and realize she's not willing to come back
into the yard because she knows the shock would get
her.
you have a dog who just has to go after or
up to any and everything that walks down the street
then I'd definitely not recommend one of these
systems. The people I know who it works for installed
them when their dogs were pups so they were brought up
trained to it. Two of the ones I know it didn't work
for have adult adopted dogs who weren't raised
with this kind of invisible barrier.
===================
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: escape artist, thunder, aggression
questions Date: 2001-05-12 07:56:04 PST
Since he got a taste of freedom and knows he can
get out I doubt you'll be able to stop him short
of tethering him or using a more sophisticated
device like an e-fence but I wouldn't recommend
going the electronic fence route without first
doing your homework on the pros and cons of them
and understand that they are not fool-proof.
=========================
MacKenzie's First Pinch Collar Class
Date: 2003-07-08 13:54:19 PST
I consider myself to be a pretty good basic obed.
trainer of Boxers with some learned but not necessarily
practiced, advanced training knowledge.
I think this because not only have I worked
with all the dogs I've had at my house but I'm also
the one in charge of all the dogs in our rescue, their
behavioral issues (identifying and working with),
basic training (done in the foster home) and a host of
other things. I'm the one who gives the advice and
walks the foster volunteers through alot of things.
Now I don't believe, for a second, that I would be
successful at teaching basic obedience to other dogs
in a class environment. Maybe I would but probably
not. Other trainers with class experience may think I
have no clue what I'm doing because my experience
has been primarily hands-on and with only one breed.
=========================
From: m_icha_el <mich_ael@ddd_dogtv.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:25:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Jean Donaldson on canine guarding/aggression
Lynn K. wrote:
> michael <michael@dddd_dogtv.com> wrote in message <news:AN6dnexDYKU...@comcast.com>..
>>Is the approach outlined below by Janet Boss
>>"confrontational?"
> Yes, of course (assuming you're talking about the
> advice to physically pull the dog off the chair).
It was a very simple question, but at least you
answered.
You snipped it, but here it is again for
reference: Please don't snip it again, unless
you want to avoid the issue, which you probably
do. It's a classic example of a Toxic Mommy
confrontation attitude and approach to dogs,
especially this line:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction"
--Janet Boss
It's no secret that Janet Boss views dogs
as little demons who need their Toxic
Mommy medicine.
----------------------------------------------
Beginning Janet Boss, "confrontational" approach
as per Lynn K.
==============================================
From: J1Boss (j1b...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Aggression: Follow-up, still need help
View: Complete Thread (25 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 1998/11/09
lesaigle writes (re dog aggression):
>Are there other ways besides
>grabbing the scruff of his neck?
*********
Erin -
I think your behaviorist is wrong in her approach. On the
other hand, you want to avoid getting bitten. This is a
situation where I would use a "kennel lead"
AND a NILIF routine. First - the NILIF - basically,
everything should be on YOUR terms. If the dog wants to be
petted/play ball/whatever, he must do something that you ask
first. No pawing at you, no grabbing you, no biting you.
Eliminate treats. Exercise the hell out of the little guy.
Practice every obedience command you know, and use them in
practical purposes. Make the dog sit (or even better yet -
DOWN) and stay before being given PERMISSION to eat. Don't
let the dog decide ANYTHING - everything should be done
because YOU want to, not him.
Now, the kennel lead. Basically, dog on chair (which is
going to be a no-no, invited or not), growls at you when you
tell him to get off? Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT
nylon or leather choke collar) over his snarly little head,
and give him a stern correction, popping him off the
furniture as you do. Still snarly? Hold him off with the
leash and ask him to sit. Hold him off enough for him to
"chill", then go through a short obedience routine.
During the evening, put him on a leash (with a choke
collar), and make him down near your chair/sofa while you
read, watch tv, whatever. Correct any attempts
to paw or bite at you, or get on the sofa.
My bet is, that after 2 weeks tops, he's gonna figure out
that his arguing will get him nowhere but popped onto the
floor, and he can't bite with the leash control. Let us know!
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
"Read your question for the obvious answer"
==================================================
end Janet Boss "confrontational" approach
as per Lynn K.
---------------------------------------------------
> So what? Whoever said that it's right to always not confront?
So we agree that Janet Boss is a confrontational trainer.
Here's what you said recently about the merits
of a "confrontational approach"
======================================
From: Lynn K. (java...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: When is euth. warranted?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2004-02-09 16:16:45 PST
Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote in
message <news:4eef209iogo2ja3m0...@4ax.com>...
>
> Have you been following this discussion, Emily?
> My point is that the opinions and advice tendered
> by the self-styled experts in this newsgroup are
> radically at odds with those published by well-known
> animal trainers and behavioralists.
And my point is that you have a total misunderstanding of
what you are reading and hearing. There is NO such
divergence in methods. You are mistaking "confrontation"
with addressing an issue.
--------------------------------------
michael interjects:
I see....?
--------------------------------------
When trainers talk about confronting a dog, they mean
forcing an issue until the dog
backs down.
--------------------------------------
michael interjects:
I see....?
--------------------------------------
Smart trainers don't do that,
--------------------------------------
michael interjects:
BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!!!!
I see....?
Therefore, according to your logic,
Janet Boss is not a smart trainer
YOU are not a smart trainer
SnipLieAch is not a smart trainer
You may be on to something!!!
--------------------------------------
moreover, they try not to let things get to a point where
confrontation occurs.
--------------------------------------
michael interjects:
some trainers START OFF at that point, every
time they train, and Janet Boss is one of them.
And you're not much different. Neither is
SnipLieAch.
PS, what do you think of my approach with HOPE
was it "confrontational"
http://dogtv.com/sionnach.wmv
--------------------------------------
Negotiation is not confrontation, persuasion is not
confrontation, training is not confrontation.
--------------------------------------
michael interjects:
Hmmmmmmmm?
"Training is not confrontation"
Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation."
Lynn K.
--------------------------------------
KWBrown
news:asaod155ai0i5qdd3...@4ax.com:
> On 18 Jul 2005 19:12:04 GMT, Marcel Beaudoin
> <mbea...@scintrextrace.com> wrote:
>
> []
>>Take a hunting dog for example. I
>>am pretty sure (and HJM and Kate can probably back me up on this) that
>>you do not want a hunting dog distracted by environmental sounds.
>
> It would surely make for some, shall we say "interesting," field work,
> Marcel.
My poor dog.
She's not the slightest bit gunshy, which is good, 'coz I'm firing
shotguns over her regularly year round. (My new puppy - TWO weeks to go!
- is already hearing distant gunfire (primers set off in the garage)
whenever the breeder puts his feed pan comes out. He's going to be
thinking gunfire is a GOOD thing!)
So we're at a hunt test, Stormy and I. And it's a complicated land
series, in which I have to load one (blank) shell, fire at a duck that
comes flying out of the shrubbery, take it from Storm, load two more
shells, run and pick up a double, and then load a final two shells,
"shoot" in the general direction of a blind, send Storm to get it, and
then make one final shot at a diversion bird as she returned from the
blind. Got all that?
All went very, very well, Storm marking and flushing just as she's
supposed to, guns going off all over the place. So we saunter over to the
blind, I shoot it, she lines it (this is good), and as she's coming back,
the last bird goes down. I point the shotgun and realize the safety's
still on and I've forgotten to chamber this last round. Desperate, I
yelled "BANG!" at the falling (dead) duck.
Storm stopped cold. Sat down, still with the blind bird in the mouth, and
directed, "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING, WOMAN?" through laserbeam eyes to
my poor befuddled self. Looks at fallen bird, looks at me with disdain,
and saunters back to heel to return the blind bird. Then she went for the
diversion.
When the judge picked himself off of the grass and stopped giggling, he
said I was lucky: some dogs have heard "BANG!" as "BACK!" which means
"run directly away from me. Do not pass go, do not collect $200".
That can really mess up your day.
--
Kate
and Storm the FCR
YourConscience
HOWEDY People,
THAT'S the TRAININ ADVICE diddler gave to
tara o. aka tee, HOWER Boxer Rescue of NC
representative, the SAME tara o. aka tee
who MURDERED her own DEAD Boxer Rescue
Dog Summer for FEAR AGGRESSION of small
children DESPITE that she was RAISED with
a small child and IN SPITE of havin an offer
of a PERMENANT SAFE FREE HOWES where she'd
NEVER be hurt intimidated or MURDERED.
HOWEDY diddler,
>From: diddy <d...@nospam.diddy.net>
>Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:28:51 -0500
>Subject: Re: Help w/Joe Joe!!!!
>Note: The author of this message
>requested that it not be archived. This
>message will be removed from Groups in
>4 days (Jul 19, 9:28 pm). in thread
>news:3jj7quF...@individual.net: Tee"
><crappolagozh...@netscape.net> whittled
>the following words:
>> "diddy" <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9691A08...@216.196.97.142...
>>> I find it hard to believe he didn't mark
>>> previously also.
So called marking is a SYMPTOM of ANXXXIHOWESNESS.
>>> But He may be trying to establish dominance.
THAT'S INSANE. There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as
"DOMINANCE" in dogs. What you DOG LOVERS call
DOMINANCE is FEAR. ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR and
if there IS such a thing as "DOMINANCE PISSIN"
as professora melanie got with her dog Skeeter,
IT'S A FEAR BEHAVIOR, not dominance, which MEANS
HURTING the dog will ONLY make it MOORE FEARFUL.
> I'd give him a real hard dose of NILIF
PERHAPS diddler FORGOT this dog is already being
abused by a alpha dominance NILIF EXXXPERT.
> and let him know YOU are the boss.
You mean, DOMINANT? PERHAPS your DOMINANCE PISSIN
problems are the RESULT of ALLELOMIMETIC behavior?
Your dogs are COPYING your fear and abuse.
>> He established his dominance immediately
IOW, he was FEAR AGGRESSIVE from the git go.
Fancy is the FEAR AGGRESSIVE alpha in tara o.
aka tee's HOWES. She LEARNED it from tara o.
aka tee.
>> and he's the only dog Fancy has ever fully
>> submitted to
On accHOWENT of HE is MOORE AFRAID of her
than she is of him, so HE DEFENDS HIMSELF
WITH HIS LIFE, dog lovers.
THAT'S YOUR DOMINANCE.
>> like that without so much as a skirmish.
DUH? Fancy KNOWS he's SO AFRAID he'll KILL HER
if she scares him anyMOORE and THAT'S HOWE COME
Fancy is DEPRESSED, she's NOT the MOST FEARFUL
dog in tara o. aka tee's HOWES <{); ~ ) >
>> He didn't need to use any physical force either.
Duh?
>> His previous adoptive family said he'd recently
>> begun trying to exert dominance over their female
>> bully.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
>> They also said he did so without using physical
>> aggression. When he fostered here a year ago he
>> was dominant then too but since he didn't mark
>> other dogs it didn't seem as blatant
BWEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> That seems to be an issue.
Yeah, good point. Let's talk abHOWET givin
PERMENANT SAFE HOWESES to dogs. Let's talk
abHOWET not hurtin and murderin and DUMPING
dogs you can't train on accHOWENT of you
CAN'T STOP HURTIN THEM.
> He's claiming Fancy and everything in his domain as HIS.
THAT'S INSANE.
> I still reccomend a healthy dose of NILIF.
THAT'S diddler. She's INSANE.
> And I don't believe I'd give him access
> to pee on poor Fancy either.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
THAT MEANS SHE'D SEPARATE THEM.
> When Torin came here, Reka gave Torin Alpha on a plate.
SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE?
> But Reka didn't ike how Torin ran the show.
IOW, diddler GOT THE SAME PROBLEM for THE SAME REASON.
> Reka was used to Danny's wise leadership,
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!
> and with Torin in charge, and no clue what
> the housze rules were, well Reka just couldn't
> watch. Reka would hide in the bath tub Until
> Finally Reka could take no more.
S-HOWENDS LIKE ALPHA THINKIN, don't it.
You'll NOTICE ALL HOWER ALPHA trainers are lying
dog abusing punk thug coward mental cases like
tara o. aka tee, shelly, diddler, malinda, well,
the list goes on an on...
> And Reka took over.
SHE DEFENDED HERSELF.
> She didn't know how to lead, but she could
> figure it out better than Torin.
THAT'S ABSURD.
> I think the loss of a leader dog makes a huge impact.
THAT'S INSANE. Dogs BOND TOGETHER in DEFENSE from
their ABUSERS, dog lovers. THAT'S your "LEADERSHIP",
diddler.
> And Fancy is feeling the loss of her companion,
AS IS diddler's dog even after WON YEAR.
> and I suspect she's wondering about the wisdom
> of the current leader.
THAT'S INSANE.
> Being peed on doesn't help her much.
Takes the GUESSWORK HOWETA WONDERIN, diddler.
> I think NILIF should help you take command.
The dog is PISSIN on accHOWENT of HE'S AFRAID.
Giving the dog sumpthin to REALLY FEAR MIGHT DO IT.
But it WON'T UNLESS tara o. aka tee can HURT HIM
EVERY TIME HE DOES IT, and SHE CAN'T, on accHOWENT
of she AIN'T GOT THE INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the
cunning of the domestic puppy dog <{); ~ ) >
> And if he already recognizes you as the dominant
> commanding leader,
NHOWE THAT'S SCARY.
> his peeing on Fancy is giving you the finger.
Hmmm. This IS "ALL abHOWET ME", ain't it, dog lovers.
> When the renal panels are done,
Medically testing the dog for anXXXIHOWESNESS
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS IS INSANE, and MALPRACTICE.
> and of he's healthy,
The dog is VERY HEELTHY, just VERY SCARED.
> I'd probably just knock his dick in the
> dirt everytime he peed on my dog.
Yeah, and you'll probably GET BIT and MURDER IT.
> If caught in the act, he should be able
> to make the distinction between outside
> appropriateness, and Fancy Inappropriateness.
RIGHT. JUST LIKE HOWE SHE DONE.
AND THAT'S HOWE COME THE PROBLEM GOT WORSE.
>From: diddy <d...@nospam.diddy.net>
>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:44:52 -0500
>Subject: Re: Argh!
> Note: The author of this message requested that
> it not be archived. This message will be removed
> from Groups in 6 days (Jul 21, 1:44 pm). in thread
> news:3jnmelF...@individual.net: "
>Tee"
><crappolagozh...@netscape.net
>> whittled the following words:
>> I haven't intervened except when he's about to mark her
Which has TAUGHT Joe Joe to DO that behavior
EVERY TIME when tara o. aka tee AIN'T LOOKIN.
>> or, occasionally, when we're giving out attention
>> and he bodily keeps her from getting any.
On accHOWENT of he's NEEDY, he's AFRAID.
He's AFRAID Fancy and tara o. aka tee
are fixing to GANG UP ON HIM and HURT
HIM someMOORE, as they BEEN PLANNIN on doin.
>> Otherwise I stay out of all dog-dog interactions
IOW, she LET'S THEM FIGHT IT HOWET.
>> as best as possible because I don't want to give Joe
>> Joe any further reason to feel a need to prove himself
>> with her.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> Perhaps he feels he's running the show (obviously)
Fancy ATTACKED him last week.
> Perhaps it's time you establish that you are the
> HEAD HONCHO/BIG CHEESE.
INDEEDY. tara o. aka tee DONE THAT... EXXXCEPT
for the DOGGY Part, which she leaves to Fancy
to FIGGER HOWET on accHOWENT of tara o. aka
tee DON'T LIKE to GET INVOLVED between dog
heirarchies. BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
What a load of crap, dog lovers.
> Start him on NILIF
JUST LIKE HOWE SHE'S DONE SINCE DAY WON.
> and make a stand that he will NOT behave
> like this in your presence,
JUST LIKE HOWE SHE DONE to TRAIN him to
DO THAT AS SOON AS tara o. aka tee AIN'T
IN CON-TROLL <{); ~ ) >
> on your dog, on your property .. or EVER.
BWEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!
> You want this to stop,
BUT EVERY THING SHE DOES MAKES HIM WORSE.
> and it WILL stop right now.
OR, tara o. aka tee will GET RID OF IT.
> Quit playing head games with him,
You mean, quit playin NILIF ALPHA grabbass
and chokin bribing crating sprayin aversives
and intimidating her dogs?
> because he's winning.
You mean, he's WINNING the HEAD GAMES?
Naaah. That'd MEAN tara o. aka tee AIN'T
GOT the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunnin
of the domestic puppy dog.
> Take over.
THAT'S HOWE COME she just got a SHOCK COLLAR.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
HOWEDY People,
Hello Tara,
news:n%Zy6.30496$BC6.8...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.co
m...
Like yourself.
HOWEDY People
news:bh9f81$vrac2$1...@ID-92443.news.uni-berlin.de...
HOWEDY tara o.,
==============
===================
news:9g3uoi$sc7$0...@63.90.193.133...
===============
======================
That makes sense in a weird sort of way. I don't
YourConscience
Rocky wrote:
> diddy said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > when I was growing up, we had a dog we got from
> > the humane society. I never saw a dog so sound
> > sensitive.
Dogs FEAR THINGS on accHOWENT of they're ABUSED.
> > If you closed a book, the whooshing sound sent
> > her skittering under the piano bench shivering.
Praising the dog IN ADVANCE and DISTRACTING
and NON PHYSICALLY praising for 5-15 seconds
would EXXXTINGUISH the phobia in a couple of
repetitions IOW NEARLY INSTANTLY <{); ~ ) >
> It's becoming more and more obvious that Lucy
> either knows no dogs well, or has had a "perfect"
> dog, if there is such a thing.
INDEEDY. Lucy got TWO PERFECT dogs JUST LIKE HOWE
ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL
WILD WORLD REPORT RIGHT HERE.
You call them LIARS and their posts FORGERIES, remember matty?
> I'm working on one dog who's scared of
> "things being unrolled," amongst other things.
THAT'S YOUR OWN FEARFUL DOG, matty.
> We've progressed from paper towels to tin
> foil (still working on the latter).
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> > I can't imagine the damage a penny can would do to her.
It wouldn't do ANY "damage" if you'd stop jerking
and choking and intimidating and PRAISE the dog
EVERY TIME you make a BRIEF VARIABLY ALTERNATING
S-HOWEND <{);~ ) >
> A penny can would screw up "my" dog royally.
INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of you're a DOG ABUSER, matty.
> A penny can would ruin everything that I've work on.
YOUR DOG IS DYIN FROM STRESS INDUCED SEIZURES.
REMEMBER matty?
> A penny can would destroy this dog's trust in me.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!
But they don't MIND bein SHOCKED and JERKED and CHOKED.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.Thurs,Jul 7 2005 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: A Question about my dog's
aggressive behavior towards other dogs
HOWEDY matty,
Rocky wrote:
> bala888 said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > I think I will try to start working on the "look at me"
> > command, since it seems to be the least stressful solution
> > for her.
> FWIW, I'm in your area
Well AIN'T THAT CONvienient, eh matty?
PERHAPS you'll train her not to yell at her fearful dog?:
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
PERHAPS she'll come by an give you a pretty cool spankin?:
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
You're a MENTAL CASE, matty. nessa's
dogs TURNED ON HER. REMEMBER, matty?
Your parents was ABUSERS and YOU IS a ABUSER on accHOWENT OF:
YOU GET THE CRITTER YOU TRAINED
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.
ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
> and may be able to offer some help.
INDEED? Your parents taught you to be an abuser
a liar a coward and mental case, matty:
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 7 Aug 2003 02:15:55 GMT
Subject: Re: PetSmart Training Class
Tricia9999 said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>> Yet when a handler does something like give a solid collar
>> pop to a dog for challenging another dog, then immediately
>> praise that dog for continuing to work, some people will
>> always see the pop and fail to hear that praise.
>> Go figure.
> We are all like that. If a guy hits his girlfriend, but
> then goes out and buys her some flowers, I'm afraid I am
> much more tuned in to the hit and a bit disdainful of the
> flowers.
How can you equate these two situations?
I need some more explanation, Tricia.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------------
PERHAPS you can try trainin your own fear aggressive
dog while she's payin you for all your ADVICE, eh matty?:
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> My contact information is in my headers.
THIS is ALL the INFORMATION she needs, matty.
NO WON in the "bupkis" thread can CON-TROLL
their own FEAR AGGRESSIVE DOGS unless they're
ABLE to HURT and INTIMIDATE them.
Your "STUDENT" BIT YOU and swallowed the squeaky
toy and stole your bag of cookies you was BRIBING
IT with and went to the emergency HOWEspital for
abdominal surgery, thanks to you, REMEMBER matty?:
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 15 May 2005 16:03:05 GMT
Subject: Re: What does "bupkis" really mean
shelly said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> you've just described elliott. i don't think Lucy would
> have had a clue what to do with him, though. while he's
> easy and forgiving in terms of handling, i think his prey
> drive and dog aggression would've had her in tears.
Hmm. You've got a point. Rocky is dog-dominant, a surprise to
almost everyone - some of whom know him very well. I wonder how
well Lucy reads dog? If she can't, she'd get some ugly
surprises.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAHAAA!!!
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 24 Mar 2005 17:16:47
Subject: Re: help with identifing a dog breed
A mature dog comfortable in its surroundings often
won't need to physically assert its dominance.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 22 Dec 2004 16:58:38 GMT
A Useful Dog
... Rocky, OTOH, I crate when a new dog is introduced -
while he's quick to back off in times of trouble, he's
fairly dominant. -- --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAA!!!
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 25 Jan 2005 17:41:39 GMT
Subject: Re: dominance issue
ceb said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I totally agree with your post and wanted to add my own
> plug for obedience classes [...]
I'll third that. While I haven't taken Friday to obedience
classes, Rocky's past obedience instructor is part of my agility
training group as well as being another co-owner of our new
agility school - so I get all sorts of advice for free.
*Nothing* beats hands-on training with a knowledgeable trainer
you can impartially observe you and your dog's interaction.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!
YOU MEAN, LIKE THIS?:
From: Rocky <2dogsREM...@rocky-dog.com.invalid>;
Date: 26 Jun 2004 04:09:37 GMT
Subject: Re: destructive puppy
Bekki Preston said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I have a German Shepherd female, 1 yr old. We got
> her from the humane society about 2 months ago.
Wonderful! Shelter dogs are wonderful dogs.
> She is wonderful inside the house, but tears everything
> up while she is outside alone during the day. We leave
> her in our fenced yard while we are at work. She finds
> stuff and destroys it. The BBQ cover, a camp chair, plastic
> fencing around the flower garden, even a garage door opener.
Just to be clear: She's OK in your home while you're
present but not OK in your yard while you're not at home?
How is she in your home while you're not there?
> I got her a Kong toy, and a tennis ball chew toy, what
> else can I do? My husband is ready to get rid of her...
Your husband is pretty quick off the trigger if ripping
up stuff that's easily replaced is all that's happened.
Where do you live? I know that in some parts of the world
it's not common to leave your dogs inside while you're not
at home. It's OK where I live.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 21 Jan 2004 03:11:14 GMT
Subject: Re: lost dog found, but already adopted
shelly said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> my neighbors have a dog door and give their dogs 24/7 access
> to their dog yard. there's no way i could do that.
Yup. For the very same reasons that my dogs stay in my yard
(even with the gate open, I've discovered) while I'm at home,
I wouldn't trust them in the yard while I'm not there.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
HOWEDY matty!
Looks like you're up to the same old same old, eh
my little mentally ill dog abusing punk thug coward
buddy?
> Trade: Exchange
Dogs are SCAVENGERS. They STEAL SCRAPS
and run to hide to eat them with their back to the
wall in a heightened state of alert.
> the toy she's holding for the one you have in your hand.
Trying to take STUFF from a dog who DON'T TRUST
YOU will TEACH IT to RUN, HIDE, and SWALLOW
STUFF so you can't TAKE IT and MAY teach IT to
ATTACK YOU and TAKE YOUR STUFF to boot.
> The P
There AIN'T NUTHIN POSITIVE abHOWET
TAKIN AWAY STUFF, matty. You ADD VALUE
to STUFF you TRY to TAKE AWAY from the
dog, matty. THAT makes dogs PROTECTIVE
of their STUFF, matty.
> will come from the toy you're offering
You mean, to get the dog to RESPECT your
COMMAND to LEAVE IT, matty? We was
talkin to your pal taragreen2 from NYC abHOWET
her LEAVE IT COMMAND when she suddenly
got CHOKED UP and couldn't teach us HOWE
to POISON PROOF a dog, matty.
PERHAPS you can ADVISE US, as marie was
ASKIN abHOWET IT for her own HOWETA CON-
TROLL dog Macula and her HOWETA CON-TROLL
twins who are LEARNIN to DISRESPECT her for
BRIBING them JUST LIKE HOWE her dog Macula
has LEARNED to elicit BRIBES and carry on her
HOWETA CON-TROLL BEHAIVORS.
Like HOWE your pal melanie change is doin with
her HOWETA CON-TROLL dogs Solo and her
peeing Pekinese you and your punk thug coward
mental case pals told her to JERK and CHOKE
to break his HOWES PISSIN on accHOWENT of
HE'S ABUSED.
> and the way you're offering it;
You mean, TEASING the dog with an alternate
REWARD for STEALIN STUFF, matty? You're
a MENTAL CASE, matty.
> that is, make the exchange worthwhile.
THAT'S INSANE!
> There's plenty of good beginning stuff,
You mean like a 100% INSTANTLY RELIABLE
COME COMMAND trained NEARLY INSTANTLY
and FOR FREE, to boot, matty?
> but "trade" is the best thing Aussie Rocky learned as a pup.
Well THAT'S IDIOCY matty. You "TRAINED" your
dog to TRADE STUFF HE STOLE for a REWARD???
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
CERTAINLY even a MENTAL CASE can SEE THAT
AIN'T NORMAL THINKIN, matty. IN FACT, your own
POSTED CASE HISTORY SHOWES US otherWIZE.
Here's your "METHOD" IN ACTION:
HOWEDY matty,
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri95A66E7693239au...@rocky-dog.com...
> Melinda Shore said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> >>To put a dollar value on it: A "drop it" command would
> >>have saved an acquaintance a $1000 surgery bill on her lab.
That so?
Seems the DROP IT command happens AFTER
the dog has TAKEN the FORBIDDEN FRUIT.
> >> Said lab (not a puppy) wouldn't give up a squeaky
> >> and, when presented with a treat in exchange,
You mean as a BRIBE to release what IT got
in ITS MHOWETH that YOU WANT MOORE
than the stinkin weenie you're offerin IT in
EXXXCHANGE?
EVEN A DOG GOT MOORE BRAINS than
to fall for THAT kinda IDIOCY.
> > > made the decision to swallow the toy
As ANY critter would, being PURSUED by
a COMPETITOR, dog lovers. What do you
EXXXPECT a dog to do when you're fixin
to STEAL his BHOWENTY.
> >> and then grab and swallow the treat bag.
THAT'S what The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
been TELLIN you bums in HIS N.I.L.I.F. Posts.
REMEMBER, matty?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ the dog is
fixin to tell yout to SHOVE IT and RIP YOU
OFF for your weenies and FIGHT you if you
offer a protest.
THAT'S HOWE COME your stinkin N.I.L.I.F.
program GETS SOME DOGS DEAD, matty.
> > I'm very sorry for what must have been a terrible
> > scare for your friend as well the risk to the dog,
MOST of HOWER DOG LOVERS here abHOWETS
have BEEN THROUGH the SAME SAME SAME SAME
for the SAME SAME SAME SAME REASON.
THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
goes "BWEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!"
REMEMBER NHOWE, matty, you lying dog
abusing punk thug coward MENTAL CASE?
BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> > but it's hard not to admire a dog with
> > advanced problem-solving skills.
BULLSHIT.
The dog attacked the bag of treats based on
PREDICTABLE NORMAL NATURAL INNATE
INSTINCTIVE REFLECIVE behavior.
A freakin CHIMPANZEE woulda seen THAT comin.
> It was a scare for me, too.
That so, matty? No "skin off your nose," eh matty?
Hey? That's abHOWET HOWE and where leah got
bit, too.
> How's this for problem-solving:
AllHOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard to
CONsult HIS crystal ball. Ooops! SEZ you're
a lying dog abusing mental case and you
can't post your idiocy here abHOWETS no
doGgamened MOORE.
> The dog went for the hand that was holding the
> bag of treats, not the treat in the proffered hand.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM?
> In doing so, she scraped up my hand fairly well
The dog BIT you matty. JUST LIKE HOWE
The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ a dog is
SUPPOSED TO DO, matty, on accHOWENT
of THAT is the NATURE of the BEAST.
> (I was attempting the trade
Dogs ain't into TRADING, matty. They
don't CARE abHOWET your "VALUES."
> after my acquaintance stood still after saying
> "drop it drop it drop it" and after her attempted
> wrestling away didn't work).
You went an stuck your hand in the dog's face
to teach IT to RESPECT you for a WEENIE.
> BTW, this was the second time this dog had
> had bowel surgery and the Nth time she wouldn't
> give up a toy to the owner.
Well, perhaps THAT'S on accHOWENT of
all the REINFORCEMENT you've done on
this behavior problem by REWARDING
BAD BEHAVIORS with TREATS, eh matty?
> I told her to get her dog to the vet ASAP,
On accHOWENT of you fed IT a whole bag
of "treats" to wash DHOWEN a squeeky toy
you din't have the INTELLECT to GET THE
DOG TO PLAY WITH?
> but she waited until the next day.
"Birds of a feather," eh matty.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
>By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
>suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
>that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
>the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
>crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
>you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
>dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
"Rocky" <> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting your dog will often
> > > make the dog either aggressive or a fear biter,
> > > neither of which we want to do.
> > And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> > No matter what Jerry Howe states.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
> > I feel very sorry for her and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Is that true, Marilyn?
Of course not~ but THIS IS:
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should
pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work
as efficiently as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior." --Mike Dufort author of the zero selling
book "Courteous Canines"
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Date: 18 Apr 2005 17:58:53 -0700
Subject: Re: digging
HOWEDY matty,
Rocky wrote:
> PapaBear said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> >>Care to share any more information?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!
> >> The short answer is yes.
The RIGHT answer is you ain't got NO METHOD, matty.
> > Not sure what more info is requested
matty is a LYING DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE.
> Originally, you gave no indication as to whether this
> was even a single dog,
That's IRRELEVENT, matty.
> let alone what Tara covered with her questions.
THAT'S IRRELEVENT, matty.
> > except he is digging in the yard, nothing or for
> > what reason I don't know he is just digging.
Dogs DIG for the SAME REASON matty's dog Rocky is DYIN
from STRESS INDUCED SEIZURES <{) : ~ ( >
> The usual reason for digging is "because it's fun".
That so, matty? That's INSANE. Dogs OCCASSIONALLY dig
for FUN, but DIGGIN is a SYMPTOM of ANXXXIHOWESNESS...
LIKE SEIZURES, matty <{); ~ ) >
> Honestly,
HONESTLY, matty? You're a PROVEN LIAR and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE.
> we'll help
That so, matty? You been a BIG HEELP so far.
You're a dog absuing liar, matty, and you
can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE.
> as much as the written word can,
You think you can teach him HOWE to train his
dog to NATURALLY WANT to do ANY THING HE ASKS,
NEARLY INSTANLY, matty?
> but a good start will be answering Tara's questions.
BWEEEEEEEEJAAAJAJAJAJAJJJAAAAA!!!
Hey? Let's PRETEND the dog is DIGGIN on accHOWNT
of IT'S FUN? HOWE are you gonna TRAIN IT not to dig?
You gonna recommend takin IT for a five mile bicycle
chase like your punk thug coward pal professor SCRUFF
SHAKE, matty?
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 17 Feb 2004 02:35:03 GMT
Subject: Re: How to protect harmful landscaping from dog?
fish said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> How can I prevent my dog from getting into these flower
> beds, destroying them and possibly harming himself in the
> process?
Training your dog to *not* do this is a start. That wasn't
meant to be flippant. Supervision works best, as does lots
of exercise.
Where does he live while you're not at home?
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
m i cha el
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:29:48 -0500, shelly <scouv...@bluemarble.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>on 2005-07-18 at 21:09 <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Interesting that it comes from "Your Conscience" and starts
>>>with HOWE speak and yet ends with "Lucy" talking about Jerry
>>>and signed by "Lucy."
>>
>>that, and Lucifer who just happened to show up today, xposting
>>Howespew to kingdom come and back again.
>
>
> I can understand that. When his meds are working better, he wants to
> say some of the same things without looking like a complete lunatic
> and an ass and maybe clean up the image of that other Jerry. So up
> pops someone to say well, he's kind of odd, but his ideas are great!
> Apparently, he has been skipping a few doses here and there again and
> is on his way back to psycho only.
Well...
We don't really know whether or not Jerry uses
meds, but we know you do!
How are your meds treating you?
=============================
THE COMPLETE DOG NEWSGROUP MENTAL ILLNESS
LIST (WHEW!) AS OF 8/6/2004
BREAKING MENTAL ILLNESS NEWS!
DATELINE: August 6, 2004
NEWSGROUPS: Dog Related + ARK
California Mormon Mom come Kibologist Paula
Makes Dog Newsgroup Mental Illness History
OUR FIRST CRAZY MORMON
Paula is a divorced Mormon Mom who dabbles freely
in Kibology, leaving herself at risk for being
Smite into a pile of rubble by either an angry,
vengeful God or worse yet, a Kibo unglued.
As a California based youth counselor, Paula
helps children deal with physical & emotional
problems while dealing with mental problems of
her own. Particularly chronic depression for
which she is drugged.
Paula has a long history of questioning her
faith, questioning her mother and worrying about
whether or not she'll be excommunicated for the
thoughts in her head. With good reason, after
spending so much time fraternizing with free
thinking, blaspheming Kibologists.
At one point, when Paula was suffering from a
heavy bout of depression, and in violation of
Mormonology and her mother's own advice, she
eschewed prayer and instead enlisted the heelp of
Harco Industries own twillis, who cruelly
flaunted her vaunted Paxil supply
"Sorry, go ride a horse, hands off my
Paxil."
says HARCO's twillis
WON'T SHARE MY PAXIL WITH PAULA
From: HarCo Industries (tdwil...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: I need
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology
Date: 2003-05-13 09:48:41 PST
mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent (Paula) wrote
> I need something to get me out of this
> deepening depression.
I prescribe a horseback ride.
Really.
I'd share my Paxil with you, but I'm selfish.
twillis
To which Paula responded:
THE PAXIL IS NOT ENOUGH
"HAH! Paxil stopped working for me
and I had to switch to Celexa, for the
really and truly messed up!"
Paula
From: Paula (mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent)
Subject: Re: ATTENTION DOCTROID DOCTROID: Thad Van Cenks
paula's concise thesis on depression:
THE PRINGLES ARE NOT ENOUGH
Oh, honey! Pringles are never an adequate defense
against depression. It takes large amounts of premium
ice cream, at the very least.
THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
BUT ZOLOFT IS TOO MUCH
BETTER FAT THAN DEAD
Also, zoloft is not a good anti-depressant because it
makes you fat. Or so an acquaintance of mine told me.
I refrained from pointing out to her that being fat
was not exactly a bad trade-off if you stopped being
suicidal in so many words.
SERIOUSLY, CHRONIC DEPRESSION IS LIKE THIS
Seriously, chronic depression is all about feeling
like shit and not knowing why. If there were a reason,
it would be "the blues" or something equally not quite
fuzzy but not really serious sounding.
YOU KNOW, LIKE FEMALE TROUBLE
THAT'S WHERE GOOD DRUGS COME IN
UNLESS YOU LISTEN TO MY MOM
You know, like "female trouble." This is where good
drugs come in. Unless you listen to my mom, who
thinks that you should be able to pray and read your
scriptures and serve others to happiness and full
enjoyment of living. The rest of us wish she would
It seems that Paula's mom tries to make her feel bad for
being mental, just like Sighthounds aka Mustang Sally
tried to make Kelly aka Culprit feel bad about her mental
problems
WISH YOU WOULD SHUT THE HELL UP AND
GET ON SOME MEDS YOURSELF, MOM!
not only shut up about how to treat our issues but
also stay on some good meds herself.
DRUGS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN PRAYERS OR PRINGLES
BUT FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, DRUGS WORK BETTER
Anyway, I have to say the good drugs route works much
better and takes less time, too. It's more expensive
than praying and pringles, but it's worth it. Get
thee to a good psychiatrist. If you can find a good
therapist, that helps, too.
DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP
Do not in any way, shape or form beat up on yourself
for your depression making no sense or not being made
worse by commercials, however. That is an order.
Paula
Paula's mother would prefer that her children pray to
the Mormon God or Jesus, or whomever the Mormons pray
to, but Paula and her brother prefer drugging themselves
instead.
MY BROTHER, MY PAXIL
rmho...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >Youre talking to someone on meds for
> >Social Phobia.
Sarah Cherlin <scher...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Ummm...what are those? I need to know for,
> like, a friend.
Paula (mmmtobler...@earthlink.net) responds
PAXIL MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE
For my brother, paxil made all the difference.
He feels like a new person, and acts like one
too. And he has been living with a hawt chyk
for years now when before he had problems with
supervisors at work, with friendships and with
wimmin because he just never felt socially
comfortable. It really has made a huge
difference for him.
Paula
Paula discussing both her own, and more
specifically, the mental problems of her husband
before they got divorced, exhibiting a slight
masochistic bent:
From: Paula (mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent)
Subject: Re: Marriage and Kids
Newsgroups: soc.religion.mormon
Date: 2003-11-02 08:28:04 PST
ASKED HUBBY TO BEAT ME
Yes. I once told my husband that I wished he
would hit me. He didn't believe me. I asked him
what was more hurtful and had the longest lasting
and most devastating effect on him, the physical
abuse or the emotional abuse he suffered as a child.
HE COULD ONLY CRY
BUT AGREED TO GO TO COUNSELING
He could only cry. He agreed to go to counseling
immediately after processing that question. I don't
think you have to sit around while your spouse beats
WHO IS BEATING WHOM?
up your spirit any more than you are expected to sit
around waiting for the next physical beating. There
are other reasons cancellations of sealings have been
granted, even in the stricter days, so it appears
there are various "legitimate" reasons for divorce,
even when it is a temple marriage
Paula uses her own mental illness experience to help
her in her capacity as counselor to others who
are suffering with mental problems. Here, Paula
coaches Matt into taking some Paxil, so that
Skylab won't fall on him.
Matt McIrvin <mmcir...@world.std.com> wrote:
PAULA, I KNOW SKYLAB IS GOING TO FALL ON ME
> No, it's a sign that *I personally* have a
> tendency to become worried about catastrophic
> consquences of everything. I've known this
> for a long time-- when I was twelve, I was
> convinced that Skylab was going to fall ON
> ME PERSONALLY--
MATT, TAKE IT EASY AND TAKE SOME PAXIL
Matt, you are a sweetheart, but definitely a
worrying sweetheart. I hope you can find a way to
calm down your fears and turn off that cycle of
escalating worry. I have an aunt like that and
she has literally driven herself crazy....
I don't want you to end up like that. Take it
easy and take some paxil.
Paula
========================================
BREAKING NEWS.
SHELLY DETHRONES NESSA AS OUR NEW MVP (most valuable psychotic)
Nessa loses MVP title due to inactivity
so shelly takes over by default)
========================================
ALL NEW as of 9/19/2004
A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly couvrette,
========================================================
All in the Mental Family
shelly: severe OCD
shelly's mom: chronic depression
shelly's brother: severe BiPolar
shelly's dogs are victims of Munchausens
Anorexia by proxy Syndrome. Here, she goes
off the deep end because she OCD'd on a
conversation she overheard about the quantity
of food being fed to her coworker's son's
shih tzus.
hattie, shelly's starving boxer (who,
theoretically, if she was not being
systematically starved by a psychotic
owner) should weigh at least five times
more than a shih tzu, yet she doesn't
get five times as much food. She
doesn't even get twice as much.
Can you say "KUCKOOOO!!!"
IT DRIVES ME CRAZY THAT MY COWORKER'S SON
DOESN'T STARVE HIS DOG
SHIH TZUS EAT MORE THAN HALF AS MUCH AS
HATTIE
one of my cow-orkers was just on the phone
with her son.....
and, get this! the were discussing feeding
amounts. her Shih Tzus eat more than half
as much as my dogs! i don't know if that's
because Iams is less calorically dense than
the foods my dogs eat or what, but i'm
boggled. *boggled*, i tell ya'.
so, anyway, i've bitten my tongue nearly
in half.
-- shelly (perfectly foul wench) and
elliott and harriet
EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED
"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding
weight to her. six months later i took
harriet in for her spring check-up and my
vet was surprised that at how thin she still
was."
--shelly couvrette
STILL VET SHOPPING
"<raises hand> i've been told by three
different vets that harriet (53lbs) is
*way* too skinny. we're still vet-shopping,
BTW."
--shelly couvrette
THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE
"if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls
the "i'm starving!" routine <G>, you can give
him some frozen green beans or a small amount
of plain pureed pumpkin. i would also suggest
putting the food out of his sight. i keep my
food--still inside the bags, which are tightly
rolled down--inside trash cans in the closed
laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps
it out of my dogs' sight."
--shelly couvrette
POSITIVELY STARVED
"heh. i get the opposite response. people think
that poor little harriet is positively starved
to death. i've actually had people stop me in
the pet supply shop and tell me that i need to
fatten her up!"
--shelly couvrette
WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE HURTING YOUR
WIDDLE PRECIOUS?
"i think that may be part of the problem. who
wants to go to a vet who tells you you're
hurting your .widdle precious? i think the
other part is that some vets really don't
*realize* that what they consider proper weight
is fat. after having been told by a couple of
vets that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim
view of vets on that topic."
--shelly couvrette
JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
--shelly's mom
FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR
ARM OFF, BITCH
-shelly
"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny,
so feeding her table snax is okay. she
tells me that just a bite won't hurt."
--shelly couvrette
March 2004, HATTIE DOWN TO 47 POUNDS
"while i was sick,
elliott was *pretty* good (he got really
needy and pathetic toward the end), but
harriet turned into 47lbs of pure
orneriness."
--shelly couvrette
NOBODY IS STARVING SHELLY
NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET
AND TELL HER SHE IS STARVING HERSELF
shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~sc ouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
=======================================================
There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who
starve their dogs out of vanity, but shelly is a
special case.
shelly is more than a little bit beyond the pale
Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little
obsessive about measuring out extra tiny and
discrete portions with a tiny measuring
cup, or counting out pieces of green bean or
pumpkin that she gives her dogs when they give
her the "I'm Starving" routine. When grandma
tried to give Hattie a snack, shelly probably
went apeshit, because it was in violation of
her Obsessive need to oversee every tiny
calorie that goes into her widdle precious'
mouth.
shelly's a special case, a special kind of
dog abuser.
NEWSFLASH
in late september, 2004 shelly left the group
because diddy was a meanie pants to her.
shelly's illness prevented her from seeing
the reality that she was the # 1
meanie pants in the history of the dog
newsgroups. We hope she gets the treatment
she needs.
Disclaimer:
=========================================
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in the dog newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think
it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who
is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid
any misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
This list is strictly for group harmony purposes.
=======================================
NEW!
LYNN K. Staunch Law and Order type
CAUGHT ON TAPE AT WOODSTOCK!
Passing Joint to Cameraman
From: Lynn K. (java...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Using Zoloft or Prozac as a one shot treatment
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2001-09-27 23:13:46 PST
Gwen Watson <g...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
<news:3BB2402B...@ig.utexas.edu>...
> At Woodstock?????? Oh you lucky, lucky women!
> I will be forever jealous of you devulging this tid
> bit of info! GGGGggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
More of us than you know. I'm even in the movie.
Let me tell you about trying to advise a teenager
about drugs after the ever-helpful uncle points out
your 15 seconds of fame - passing a joint to the
cameraman as Arlo Gutrie croons "coming into Los
Angeleeeze......." in the background :-( Kind of
undermines the parental authority thing.
Lynn K.
==========================================
REC.PETS.DOGS CRAZY PERSON LIST
as of
8/1/2004
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
BREAKING MENTAL ILLNESS NEWS
DATELINE: AUGUST 1, 2004
Tara O. aka, Tee is an Anorexia Survivor
UNTIL YOU'VE LIVED WITH THIS DISORDER
YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW DEVASTATING
Tara O. aka Tee, is in many ways a typical suburban
South Carolinian soccer mom. Upon casual inspection,
nothing appears to be amiss. Tara, aka Tee spends her
free time surfing the internet and is a big fan of the
WB's "Gilmore Girls." Tara is also a passionate member
of the Carolina Boxer Rescue network. The only sign of
controversy or untowardness is that Tara's own Boxer
Summer was suddently put to sleep in October 2001,
despite several offers from an Orlando, FL dog expert
(Jerry Howe) to adopt her, claiming he could easily
cure Summer's behavioral problems.
Looking at Tara today, you'd never know that when she
was a teen, she suffered for five years with the
debilitating mental disorder, known as anorexia.
Tara is now a healthy weighted (some would say
plump) mom in her thirties, but during her teens
Tara O. (along with her Bulimic Friend), looked like
a skeleton.
like so many of the mentally ill before her, Tara O.
is coming forward because she wants to educate those
who come after her. The message Tara is sending is
clear. Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of.
"We don't have to hide any longer!" she seems to be
saying.
Tara O. aka, Tee attributes her anorexia to
a lack of self esteem, which sprung from peer
pressure and an upbringing that could have been
more nurturing.
Determined that the same fate not befall her daughter
Amie, and out of a belief that no child should have to
follow the same path of self destruction and starvation,
Tara, in graphic and sometimes excruciating detail
relives the drama of how she was bowed and broken by,
but ultimately came back to beat anorexia.
YOU GO (gilmore) Girl!
Tara and Amie's harrowing saga (below) is a cautionary
tale and a must read for all of those, who care deeply
about the future of young girls in America. This is an
issue that affects both young and old, black and white,
male and female all across America.
Tara is doing everything in her power, including
medicating her daughter Amie with Ritalin, so that Amie
does not have to feel the sting of self esteem issues,
brought on by peer pressure courtesy of the cliques of
marauding "mean girls" who prey on young females
struggling to find their way and their indentity during
the precarious and perilous passage from adolescence
to young adulthood. We can only be thankful that Tara
prevailed and lived to tell her story.
We wish Tara O and her daughter Amie nothing but success
in overcoming mental illness and mental disorders. Tara
and Amie, you are an inspiration to us all!
I BATTLED ANOREXIA FOR MOST OF MY TEEN YEARS
WE BOTH LOOKED STICK THIN
Well if you had one and you did it to gain attention
then quite frankly you'd be the first person I have
ever heard of taking that approach. I battled anorexia
for most of my teen years and had a very good
acquaintance who was bulimic and almost died. We both
looked stick thin but could cover the circles around
our eyes with makeup and the colorless, chapped lips
with lipstick. How often did any of us see Diana out
in public during this time with no makeup on as well
as up-close & personal?
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
UNTIL YOU'VE LIVED WITH THIS DISORDER
YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW DEVASTATING
IT'S NOT LIKE SLITTING YOUR WRISTS
Until you've lived with an eating disorder, you cannot
understand how devastating they can be or what goes on
in the person's head during the time. Book smarts are
all good and well but there is never just one
cut-and-dried reason for becoming bulimic or anorexic.
Your whole theory is shot simply by the fact that the
vast majority of bulimics and anorexics go out of their
way to HIDE their problems. They do not want attention
drawn to themselves. Its not like slitting your wrists
in the wrong direction so that people will know you want
or need help.
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
------------
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Does Liza Weil have anorexia?
Newsgroups: alt.tv.gilmore-girls
Date: 2002-10-10 10:54:39 PST
SORRY TO BE GRAPHIC
HER NICE-SIZED CHEST WOULD SHRINK AND DROOP
She doesn't look anorexic to me. She'd be much
skinner, much bonier and her nice-sized chest would
shrink & droop. Sorry to be graphic but I know a
good bit about the disease and the effects it has
on appearance
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
http://cbr.homestead.com
--------------------
"Tom" <tomlit...@hotmail.com> wrote
> So, from your view, why did Diana write a book by
> way of Andrew Morton that talked ALL about it? And
> then, why did she go on PANOROMA and talk about it
> some more?
FOR FIVE YEARS, I LOOKED LIKE A SKELETON, AND I
WANT TO HELP OTHERS. I'M STEPPING FORWARD, TOM
For the same reason that I've talked about my 5-year
problem with anorexia to others.....to educate others
and to help explain why when anyone sees pictures of
me during my teens, I look like a skeleton.
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
----------
LEAVE PRINCESS DI ALONE, TOM
Newsgroups: alt.gossip.royalty
Date: 2002-08-06 05:35:07 PST
"Tom" <tomlit...@hotmail.com> wrote
> If she had been as sick as she said she was
> she would not have looked as good as she did.
> Her hair and teeth and
> skin would have been ragged and spotty.
> It's really that simple.
YOU'VE NEVER SUFFERED FROM THIS ILLNESS, TOM
YOU'VE NEVER STARVED YOURSELF, DAMMIT, I HAVE
No its not and you've obviously never suffered from
this illness or anorexia which is related. Firstly,
I've seen pictures of her where she did look deathly.
It was very likely only due to heavy makeup and help
with her hair that she even managed to look
presentable.
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
---------
PEIR PRESSURE AND ANOREXIA
"Tom" <tomlit...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Bulimia is a sympton of a personality disorder.
> I'm not sure what doctor's you're talking to.
> Diana was absolutely a textbook example
> of a borderline personality:
LOOK, TOM, I SAW A DOCTOR FOR MY ANOREXIA
SO I KNOW A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THIS THAN YOU
"I've never heard of low self-esteem being
classified as a personality disorder. The doctors
I refer to are the ones who lectured at one of my
high school as well as a doctor I had to see for my
anorexia."
> Borderline personality disorder is characterized
> by mood instability
> and poor self-image.
PIER PRESSURE IS A BIG PROBLEM FOR TEENS, TOM
"Low self-esteem affects alot of people at some
point in their life, usually in their teens when
pier opinion is very important. Then there is
the lack of self-esteem created by a verbally
abusive friend or family member. You tell
someone something enough times and they might
just start believing you."
> Everything is related to personality.
> I don't see how you can say
> that any mental illness is NOT related to
> a personality disorder.
> Where are you getting your information?
MENTAL DISORDERS HAVE A WAY OF SHOWING
THEMSELVES THROUGH WORDS, TOM
"Related yes as in mental disorders have a way
of showing themselves through someone's words &
actions which can be interpreted as personality.
But mental issues and personality issues are not
one in the same."
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
http://cbr.homestead.com
WHAT I HAVE LEARNED, TOM
From all I know of bulimia, it is not normally
a symptom of a personality disorder such as manic
depression, bi-polar, or anything else. It is,
most of the time from what I have come to know,
a byproduct of someone having too little
self-esteem. There are other reasons but none
that cause bulimia as often as lack of
self-esteem from what I have learned.
--
Tara
------------------
TARA'S DAUGHTER AMIE IS BEING DRUGGED FOR ADHD
From: Tee (crappolagozh...@netscape.net)
Subject: Re: OT - ADHD
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2004-02-07 21:09:37 PST
I'M NOT A RITALIN PUSHER
I should add that I'm not an ADHD or
Ritalin pusher. While there are diehard
disbelievers there are also diehard believers,
almost fanatical. My contributions to this
thread on children are based solely on my own
experience with Amie for the last 3.5 years
...
ONLY A WEEK
Amie has only been on the medication for a week.
We and the teacher have already noticed a
significant change in her ability to not only pay
attention
...
CLEARED ALL THE CHAOS AND NOISE
Its like someone cleared all the chaos & noise
out of her head and took the earplugs out of her
ears. That's not to say I swear by the drug because
its still in the trial phase with her but if this is
what we can expect from this medication then she'll
remain on it until she chooses not to.
...
MY DAUGHTER WILL NEVER BE AN HONOR STUDENT,
BUT I'M OKAY WITH THAT
My daughter will never be an honor roll student and
I don't care about that, I just don't want her to
fail school and watch her friends move on for something
she can't control.
--
Tara
------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
SPECIAL THANKS TO CHRIS JUNG
for the PROZE and CONS of PROZAC
CHRIS JUNG on the
PROZE and CONS of PROZAC
I have to comment here. Anti-depressants such
as Prozac do not have any "drugging" effect. It
doesn't tranquilize, make euphoric, or cause
any sort of change in behavior except for
bringing the brain imbalances back to normal
and thus reducing depression. I take Prozac and
the difference between being on Prozac and not
is very subtle. I still feel everything (happy,
sad, nervous, mad) but I'm just not as
unreasonably bummed about it.
==================================
DATELINE: JULY 23, 2004
REC.PETS.DOGS NEWSGROUPS
A WARM WELCOME TO OUR NEWEST CRAZY PERSON
BETHGSD
Please, all mental cases on deck! We need to
Welcome Bethgsd, and let her know that she is
not alone. If any of you can heelp, with some
encouraging words, that would be great.
You are not alone, Beth!!
REC PET DOGS NEWSGROUPS CRAZY KLUB
NEWEST INDUCTEE BETHGSD
July 2004
=======================================
From: Bethgsd (beth...@aol.comnojunk)
Subject: Re: failed attempt to rehabilitate aggressive dog
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2002-04-11 16:42:08 PST
Gwen wrote:
>Absolutely! And I personally find it somewhat
>insulting that the comparisons of this were made.
>Since I do have epilepsy myself and it is a very
>life threatening disease when one is not on
>medication. Very.
>
>Gwen
>
>
[Bethgsd Responds]
[GWEN, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS...
CHEMICAL IMBALANCES CAN BE LIFE THREATENING]
Well, Gwen I suffer from severe depression which
is controlled by a particular SSRI and I find it
insulting that you don't feel that chemical
imbalances can be lifethreatening. No, I don't
go into status but I've attempted to commit
suicide a few too many times. And no, those
weren't little "cries for help" they were honest
to G-D attemts to get out of the pain.
So get your head out of your ass and realize that
chemical imbalances can be as life threatening,
if in a different way, than electrical misfiring.
Beth [aka Bethgsd]
not to be confused with
the non crazy (as far as we know, BethF)
----------------------------
Disclaimer:
=========================================
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in the dog newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think
it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who
is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid
any misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
This list is strictly for group harmony purposes.
=======================================
Dateline: rec.pets.dogs.* newsgroups
Breaking Mental Illness News, JUNE 2004!
HATTIE @ 47 lbs!
Hattie, a boxer owned by shelly couvrette is
now down to 47 pounds. Couvrette, a librarian
at Indiana U. who suffers from obsessive/
compulsive disorder (OCD), was told by three
different Veterinarians that Hattie was "way
too skinny" when Hattie weighed 53 lbs.
Undeterred by that, and the reactions from
family and strangers on the street, shelly
continued shopping for vets and cutting
calories until Hattie,a chronic counter
surfer at age 5 now weighs just 47 lbs!
shelly finds all the symptoms of a starving
dog searching for nutrients to be
entertaining. Couvrette has developed a unique
technique to fool dogs who are having
pangs of starvation. She feeds them
green beans and canned pumpkin, so there
will be some "filler" in their stomachs
when they give her the "I'm Starving--no,
really" routine.
shelly is not nearly as obsessed with her
own weight, and has never been told by a
medical professional that she is "way too
skinny." If so, that medical professional
would be end up on this crazy person list
as well.
For a complete recap of the shelly and
hattie show, page down to the bottom of
this list.
=================================
=================================
In other news....
JUNE 2004
LEAH ditches Effexor for Zyban.
Leah Roberts, a professional dog
trainer and former Jew who has turned
her life over to Jesus, has graduated
from the ranks of PetSmart Trainers and
has signed on with a progressive agility
and family pet focused Dog Training outfit
Canine Action based in Orlando, Fl.
http://www.canineaction.com
As part of the move, Leah has switched
mental medications from from Effexor to
Zyban in an attempt to quit smoking. As a
result, she has much more energy, which
has allowed her to pass a colonoscopy exam
with flying colors.
Said Roberts:
"I'm wondering if it was the
med [effexor] and not the CFS that was
affecting me so badly."
Leah continues to improve her life and is
considering buying herself a motorcycle for
her 50th birthday later this year. Leah is
almost to the point where we can remove her
from the crazy person list. But not yet.
We wish her continued success in becoming
crazy-free.
============================================
RPD* MeNTally Ill All_StaRz as of 7/23/2004
LYNN K. 20 plus years on Lithium
LOIS E. 25 plus years on tricyclics
Hello Fans,
here is our latest NEW AND IMPROVED crazy person update,
including our latest mentally unstable person, Lois E.
of Gary and Lois fame who has been on Tricyclics
pushing 25 years. She is no longer afraid to talk about it.
Neither is Lynn K. who embraces her mental illness and
opens up about her 20 plus years on Lithium, as well as
her love afair with Zoloft.
I TOO HAVE A BIPOLAR MOOD DISORDER (MANIC DEPRESSION)
I ALSO CARE ABOUT DOGS
COMMUNITY IS AN EVOLUTIONARY THING
WORDS OF WISDOM from our own
Lynn Kosmakos
=======================================
From: Chris Kosmakos (chris...@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: complaints and goodbye
Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
:
: Sheesh, if everyone would start taking responsibility for their own
: actions, wouldn't life be grand?
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully
outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar conversation
on Mental problems.
LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined
-----------------------------------------
> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
----------------------------------------
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific, is
now days you can say proudly, 'I take anti-depressives'"
-------------------------------------
Message 52 in thread
From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted." The
good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
Updated KUCKOO!! KUCKOOO! DING! DING! DING! list as of 7/27/2004:
list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy) Regulars
Most of whom are women or homosexuals
RPD CRAZY PERSON ROLL CALL and BIOS
=============================================
=============================================
NESSA
NUTCASE
FORMER MVP (Most Valuable Psychotic) of
dog newsgroups
Successfully dethroned MaryBeth as MVP but
lost her title to shelly due to inactivity
Nessa blames all the problems in her life
on ADD, ADHD Or some other empowering acronym
which encapsulates her futility for her
Her dog bagel, a large newf mix
has used her house liberally
as a toilet since February of 2002. Drives
a 2003 Toyota Matrix, owns a house in
suburban MD, recently got a raise/promotion
to US goverment grade 11 (circa $50,000) and
promptly decided she couldn't afford her two
dogs. With help from non crazy regular
(Paulette) and witchcraft practicing regular
Sara Sionnach, Nessa has decided to keep her
dogs for the time being. She is undergoing
training from Janet "Nice Abdominal Surgery
and getting Run Over for the Family Pet" Boss.
Her results have not been dramatic.
CrAzy ReGulAr helping CraZy ReGular
Leah helping Nessa
=============================
On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 8:40:08 -0400, Leah wrote
Nessa use...@nessa.info wrote:
"As far as the depression goes,
it's not related to Bagel at all.
I have chronic major depression and
I'm just having a flare."
Leah asks
"Are you on any medication?"
Nessa responds
yes for depression, mood swings and ADHD.
I have been for over 10 years.
--nessa
Nessa is Fat as well as crazy
=============================
"For what it's worth...
I picked up 30 pounds when I started
Dilantin. I picked up (just recently) another
20 on risperidol.
I hate that I was a size 8-10 before meds and
now I am solidly (pun intended) a 22-24.
Sad part is, the side effects are worth it.
The positive effects
are too much to part with."
--nessa
============================
NESSA'S HAS A GREAT NEUROPSYCH
==============================
Hi, I have a great neuropsych in Arlington Va.
He is at the Rosyln Metro Station. His name is
Martin Stein
1911 N Fort Myer Dr.
Suite 907
Arlington Va 22209
703-807-2471
email 75120.2...@compuserve.com
Marty is wonderful. He is really the best.
He has also given me permission to post his
infomation on this Newsgroup. If you call
him and see him by all means tell him Nessa
sent you.
--nessa
================================
ROTATE YOUR STIMULANTS
=============================
from: Nessa (n...@ix.netcom.com)
Hi,
I often have to rotate my stimulants.
You can become used to them and sometimes
need a different one for a while. Until I
got on my Desoxyn I rotated Ritilan and
Dexedrine every 3 months or so.
It is true that anti-depressants or
anti-anxiety pills will help with the
stimulants so your DR is not wrong. However,
perhaps she needs to check into the idea that
a switch from cylert to something else might
be in order.
warm thoughts,
Nessa
=============================
=============================================
=============================================
Lois E.
(of Gary and Lois fame)
Lois' has been on tricyclic antidepressants for
approximately 25 years. This may be a record.
Husband is a cop but there is no evidence
that he beats the crap out of her, or that he
has for 25 years.
Had a traumatic experience as a child with a
horse running wild in the Pantry and living room.
In recent years, shot neighbor's dog from point
blank range while it was chewing on her pigmy goat,
teaching son to solve problems with the neighbor's
using shock and awe levels of violence."
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted." The
good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
=============================================
=============================================
Kelly/
culprit
Systems engineer at Microsoft, owner of two
pitbulls, proving that Bill Gates does not
discriminate against crazy people or pit bull
owners.
psychotic features, panic and more. Coming
forward so that others like her will have the
strength to do the same. Like Charlie Wilkes,
she is one of our most entertraining regulars
Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally
about her mental illness/crazy problems.
Sally is being rude and condescending (as usual)
and trying to make kelly/culprit feel bad for
being crazy, aka wacked in the head
culprit standing up for herself against rude and condescending Mustang
Sally
-----------------------------------------------
I WON'T DENY MY PROBLEMS, MUSTANG SALLY!
"but i stand by the fact that OCD is an
illness, major depression with psychotic features
certainly is, panic disorder is too. and the
other stuff just makes it all the more fun.
i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to
accept it, because ignoring it wasn't working out
too well. i need to do that to make changes to my
life so that i can become healthy. and you say
you're not trying to be condescending, but you're
doing it again. what i read was, (my paraphrasing)
"people who think they're mentally ill are
wallowing in their disabilities and letting them
consume their life"
you come across as though you would be able to
handle any of these illnesses, and anyone who
can't is just copping out. well we're all
different. and i don't accept your idea that i
would have a more productive life if i denied my
problems. i tried it for years, and believe me,
it didn't work very well."
-kelly aka culprit
systems engineer @ Microsoft
----------------------------------------------
=============================================
=============================================
MaryBeth
FMVP (former most valuable psycho)
(super psycho bitch
lunatic queen of the
mentally fucked in
the head)
Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid,
MaryBeth has suffered from or been:
TIDAL WAVES OF PMS
suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS,
mood swings, turned into a hermit, bloated,
just real angry, hubby afraid of her, high
blood pressure, divorced, "raving bitch"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living
through layers and layers of gauze," chain
smoker, buzzing, weight gain, fatigue,
terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy
brain, lack of concentration..etc.
severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
it...etc...
MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell
I RAN OVER EVERYONE IN MY PATH
"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
everyone in my path."
"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially
on a long term basis, and it's not pretty.
You become another person, if it's not the
correct med for you.
--All the best,
MaryBeth
DON'T TAKE ULTRAM AND ZOLOFT TOGETHER
"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."
"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for menopause."
--MaryBeth
ME NOT SO HORNY
"I noticed that antidepressants cut libido
into the dead zone and I had no real emotions,
like not laughing at funny stuff, couldn't cry
either.....except about my suicidal thoughts
(but at the time I thought there was no other
way out)."
--MaryBeth
NEW TO GROUP
"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today.
I talked with RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50
mg daily) and ineraction with Clomid. They
reported none. Not sure about the prozac tho.
Gonna poat a new message to intorduce
myself :)"
--MaryBeth <still feeling
like herself> <G>
WASTED 10 YEARS
"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost
many many treasured ppl and things. Please
don't do the same. (((((((SCOUT))))))))))
--MaryBeth
WAS HORRIBLE
"Slowly but surely my depression got worse and
worse. They put me on meds for it, and all
along kept telling me to wait on the TKR, as
'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!"
The depression got so bad, and lots of other
things happened and my ex and I would up
divorced four years after our move. It was
horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone
thru"
--MaryBeth
=============================================
=============================================
Theresa Willis
(paxil, depression, robot displacement)
Theresa is a gang banger who comes out
of cutesy robot mode when it's time to
gang attack people with her pal shelly
Victim is usually Leah, but may be a
random person.
=============================================
=============================================
shelly
couvrette
OUR NEWEST MVP (MOST VALUABLE PSYCHOTIC)
All in the Mental Family
shelly: severe OCD
shelly's mom: chronic depression
shelly's brother: severe BiPolar
Severe OCD, depression, prescribed Paxil
for mental illness, but claims she does
not take it, resulting in an obsessive
basket case online persona. Posts more than
any other female in all dog newsgroups
(familial mental illness, possibly related
to family bed) obsessively starves her
dogs according to friends, family,
strangers and 3 different vets, but
not herself (see below). Still thinks
of herself as a five year old ballerina
despite the fact that she is a fat
adult in her mid thirties.
PAGE ALL THE WAY UP FOR BONUS COVERAGE
NEW, HATTIE DOWN TO 47 POUNDS!!
NEWER, SHELLY GOES KUCKOOO!!! Over
shih tzu's being fed almost as much
as hattie (page to top)
=============================================
=============================================
lynn
kosmakos
RPD* Enemy of Dogs #1
(Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
depression) will "put down a biter
as fast as anyone" yet claims to
be a saintly dog rescuer. Murders
dogs because of insurance rates
Her brother was attacked by a Golden
Retriever when she was young. For
this reason, she murders easily
trainable dogs. Condemns dogs to
death who are easily trainable
with her "evaluations."
Is nice to people in person, but
her true dog hating nature comes
out on newsgroups with
extreme clarity.
Advocates shooting dogs on sight, when
they chase deer. Sees no other
option. Her own dog Java had to be shocked
with a shock collar to keep him from
chasing deer.
has been on lithium for approximately
20 years. Zoloft for an undetermined
number of years
1200mg LITHIUM
50mg ZOLOFT
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
WE EARN THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
From: Chris Kosmakos (chris...@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: Prozac - Good medication or no?
I TAKE A SIMILAR DRUG MYSELF
"Yes, for very specific behaviorial problems.
I would have to trust my vet and behaviorist
a lot, and be very sure that I had exhausted
every other option before I used Prozac to
deal with a dog problem - and I take a
similar drug, Zoloft, myself."
Lynn K.
CAUGHT ON TAPE AT WOODSTOCK (I'M IN THE MOVIE)
From: Lynn K. (java...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Using Zoloft or Prozac as a one
shot treatment
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2001-09-27 23:13:46 PST
Gwen Watson <g...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
<news:3BB2402B...@ig.utexas.edu>...
> At Woodstock?????? Oh you lucky, lucky women!
> I will be forever jealous of you devulging this tid
> bit of info! GGGGggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
More of us than you know. I'm even in the movie.
Let me tell you about trying to advise a teenager
about drugs after the ever-helpful uncle points out
your 15 seconds of fame - passing a joint to the
cameraman as Arlo Gutrie croons "coming into Los
Angeleeeze......." in the background :-( Kind of
undermines the parental authority thing.
Lynn K.
=============================================
=============================================
Leah
Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her
chronic mental problems. Leah is
improving as a dog trainer and wants
to open her own training/boarding
kennel soon and write a book.
This drives her fellow
mentally ill regulars nuts (read shelly
Lynn K.), especially if Leah succeeds
while other loonies continue to sit on
their fat behinds
Leah is a relatively stable crazy person
but she just might be the agent that drives
others to jump off of a cliff
NEW, Leah gets a new job. Switches mental
medication from Effexor to Zyban
=============================================
=============================================
Bethgsd
German Shepherd enthusiast Bethgsd is
taking an unamed SSRI for severe
depression.
Here, Bethgsd, points out to Gwen the
importance of being understanding about
the mental problems of crazy people.
GWEN, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS
I SUFFER FROM SEVERE DEPRESSION
"Well, Gwen I suffer from severe depression
which is controlled by a particular SSRI and
I find it insulting that you don't feel that
chemical imbalances can be lifethreatening.
No, I don't go into status but I've attempted
to commit suicide a few too many times. And
no, those weren't little "cries for help"
they were honest to G-D attemts to get out of
the pain.
So get your head out of your ass and realize
that chemical imbalances can be as life
threatening, if in a different way, than
electrical misfiring."
Beth [aka Bethgsd]
=============================================
=============================================
Tara O. aka Tee
UNTIL YOU'VE LIVED WITH THIS DISORDER
YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW DEVASTATING
Tara O. aka Tee, is in many ways a typical suburban
South Carolinian soccer mom. Upon casual inspection,
nothing appears to be amiss. Tara, aka Tee spends her
free time surfing the internet and is a big fan of the
WB's "Gilmore Girls." Tara is also a passionate member
of the Carolina Boxer Rescue network. The only sign of
controversy or untowardness is that Tara's own Boxer
Summer was suddently put to sleep in October 2001,
despite several offers from an Orlando, FL dog expert
(Jerry Howe) to adopt her, claiming he could easily
cure Summer's behavioral problems.
Looking at Tara today, you'd never know that when she
was a teen, she suffered for five years with the
debilitating mental disorder, known as anorexia.
Tara is now a healthy weighted (some would say
plump) mom in her thirties, but during her teens
Tara O. (along with her Bulimic Friend), looked like
a skeleton.
like so many of the mentally ill before her, Tara O.
is coming forward because she wants to educate those
who come after her. The message Tara is sending is
clear. Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of.
"We don't have to hide any longer!" she seems to be
saying.
Tara O. aka, Tee attributes her anorexia to
a lack of self esteem, which sprung from peer
pressure and an upbringing that could have been
more nurturing.
Determined that the same fate not befall her daughter
Amie, and out of a belief that no child should have to
follow the same path of self destruction and starvation,
Tara, in graphic and sometimes excruciating detail
relives the drama of how she was bowed and broken by,
but ultimately came back to beat anorexia.
YOU GO (gilmore) Girl!
Tara and Amie's harrowing saga (below) is a cautionary
tale and a must read for all of those, who care deeply
about the future of young girls in America. This is an
issue that affects both young and old, black and white,
male and female all across America.
Tara is doing everything in her power, including
medicating her daughter Amie with Ritalin, so that Amie
does not have to feel the sting of self esteem issues,
brought on by peer pressure courtesy of the cliques of
marauding "mean girls" who prey on young females
struggling to find their way and their indentity during
the precarious and perilous passage from adolescence
to young adulthood. We can only be thankful that Tara
prevailed and lived to tell her story.
We wish Tara O and her daughter Amie nothing but success
in overcoming mental illness and mental disorders. Tara
and Amie, you are an inspiration to us all!
I BATTLED ANOREXIA FOR MOST OF MY TEEN YEARS
WE BOTH LOOKED STICK THIN
Well if you had one and you did it to gain attention
then quite frankly you'd be the first person I have
ever heard of taking that approach. I battled anorexia
for most of my teen years and had a very good
acquaintance who was bulimic and almost died. We both
looked stick thin but could cover the circles around
our eyes with makeup and the colorless, chapped lips
with lipstick. How often did any of us see Diana out
in public during this time with no makeup on as well
as up-close & personal?
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
Page to the top for more...
=============================================
=============================================
Paula
OUR FIRST CRAZY MORMON
Paula is a divorced Mormon Mom who dabbles freely
in Kibology, leaving herself at risk for being
Smite into a pile of rubble by either an angry,
vengeful God or worse yet, a Kibo unglued.
As a California based youth counselor, Paula
helps children deal with physical & emotional
problems while dealing with mental problems of
her own. Particularly chronic depression for
which she is drugged.
Paula has a long history of questioning her
faith, questioning her mother and worrying about
whether or not she'll be excommunicated for the
thoughts in her head. With good reason, after
spending so much time fraternizing with free
thinking, blaspheming Kibologists.
At one point, when Paula was suffering from a
heavy bout of depression, and in violation of
Mormonology and her mother's own advice, she
eschewed prayer and instead enlisted the heelp of
Harco Industries own twillis, who cruelly
flaunted her vaunted Paxil supply
"Sorry, go ride a horse, hands off my
Paxil."
says HARCO's twillis
WON'T SHARE MY PAXIL WITH PAULA
From: HarCo Industries (tdwil...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: I need
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology
Date: 2003-05-13 09:48:41 PST
mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent (Paula) wrote
> I need something to get me out of this
> deepening depression.
I prescribe a horseback ride.
Really.
I'd share my Paxil with you, but I'm selfish.
twillis
To which Paula responded:
THE PAXIL IS NOT ENOUGH
"HAH! Paxil stopped working for me
and I had to switch to Celexa, for the
really and truly messed up!"
Paula
Page to the top for much more on
this mental case
=============================================
=============================================
Tara Green
Tara Green is a dog trainer of sorts in New York
City left rpd* claiming that she could
not afford internet access and/or a computer,
but her story is of value nonetheless
was on antidepressants for a few years
prior to her marriage. During her
marriage, she learned a lot:
"With the therapist I saw during my
marriage I learned that some
situational depressions are masked as
chemical simply because of our too human
ability to prolong the impact of the
causal situations indefinitely"
Sounds like more denial, see leah
Tara is also a drunk who has also had
problems with other substances
TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:
"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they
are separate issues.....so which camp does
that put me in???)"
"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are
alcoholics. I'm not one of those people,
but they do exist."
aka, tara has problems with both
=============================================
=============================================
Kevin
Michael
Vail
various mental illness drugs, started with
zoloft, didn't like that, then went to
antidepressant, stopped after sufficent
side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy
Kevin is a homosexual but there is no
evidence that this is the cause of him
being crazy
=============================================
=============================================
Furpaw
(SSRI, cognitive therapy)
otherwise, a fairly boring
and nondescript crazy person
=============================================
=============================================
Chris Jung
(Prozac and Welbutrin,
cognitive therapy)
CHRIS JUNG on the
PROZE and CONS of PROZAC
I have to comment here. Anti-depressants such
as Prozac do not have any "drugging" effect. It
doesn't tranquilize, make euphoric, or cause
any sort of change in behavior except for
bringing the brain imbalances back to normal
and thus reducing depression. I take Prozac and
the difference between being on Prozac and not
is very subtle. I still feel everything (happy,
sad, nervous, mad) but I'm just not as
unreasonably bummed about it.
=============================================
=============================================
Charlie
Wilkes
drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his
life, Christ the shit he's been through
including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major cash
as a business consultant. Triumphing over
adversity, with a damn good life and a
well trained dog. One of our most lucid
regulars, despite (or maybe because of?)
a penchant for phat philly blunts.
=============================================
=============================================
Karen
DuChateaux
aka Karibear
suffered from clinical depression for years
until some drug or something brought her out
of it. Some of her best friends "are
certifiable" and have various degrees of
psychoses. Familial mental disability.
Refuses to say whether or not she is
currently using drug or cognitive therapy
for mental illness.
=============================================
=============================================
Mike
"DumbOxDumb"
Dufort
threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe
with Mike's fully armed US Army Platoon.
Threatened to bring his platoon to Jerry's
HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)
=============================================
=============================================
Jim "Brain
Shivers"
Sabatke
Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes
because of his depression/mental problems.
Like many of our mental cases, Jim has had
trouble finding the right med(s) to keep him
from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or getting
the "brain shivers"
From: Jim Sabatke (jsaba...@execpc.com)
Subject: Re: anyone using Effexor?
alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST
EFFEXOR
"I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked
wonders for me. The only down side is
that my blood pressure has elevated
somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a
couple of hours the "brain shivers" can
be really bad.
Good luck!
Jim
"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about
5 months ago. I tapered off of the Paxil
and tapered onto the Effexor at the same
time."
Jim
"After several years on Effexor IR, my
pdoc tried switching me to XR. I
experienced fairly severe Effexor
withdrawel until I went back to the IR."
Jim
=============================================
=============================================
<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific to you,
if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward, we can help
each other with our problems. Remember, mental illness is nothing to
be ashamed of. It's not your fault if you have a defective brain which
may cause you to act like an extreme hypocrite and/or idiot and/or
robot without your being aware of it).
Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have been
added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections and remove
you from the crazy person list.
===========================================
This has been a production of
dogtv.com networks
your world leader in dog entertraining
this marks the end of the rec.pets.dogs.* crazy person list
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Further Explains The Mental Illness List
==========================================
In the past, before Michael fixed things, this was a
way to shut people up and discredit people. Calling
them mentally ill. shelly told us not to even talk
to the mentally ill.
But it turned out most of the people doing the
accusing and finger pointing and "you better take
your meds" etc... were mentally ill themselves.
That's a huge story, and I SCOOPED IT.
MaryBeth for instance, was constantly telling
people to take their meds. Once I started to
do a little research, the floodgates opened
and an amazing story unfolded.
==========================================
copyright 2004
dogtv.com networks
you are free to reproduce this list for
group harmony purposes
--
this is michael
the voice of reason
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
Rocky
>> A penny can would screw up "my" dog royally. A penny can
>> would ruin everything that I've work on. A penny can
>> would destroy this dog's trust in me.
>
> Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys.
Same thing.
> Use any sound you can produce from different directions.
> Use your imagination, for a change.
"For a change"? Keep working at it, you're not quite as
obnoxious as Jerry.
> And don't forget to
> praise the dog, each time that you produce the sound.
!!!!CLANG!!!! shut up lucy good girl.
ThePupp...@animail.net
diddy wrote:
> in thread news:3k2ao7F...@individual.net: "Tee"
> <crappol...@netscape.net> whittled the following words:
>
> > Tell me then if you feel the same about a penny can.
> > Did you know that a penny can is just as harsh to alot
> > of dogs?
Yeah, if it's used as an AVERSIVE like your
"callin off" and jerking and choking your dog.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAAA!!!
> > --
> > Tara
ONLY ABUSED DOGS are AFRAID of S-HOWENDS, dog lovers...
> when I was growing up, we had a dog we got from the
> humane society. I never saw a dog so sound sensitive.
> If you closed a book, the whooshing sound sent her
> skittering under the piano bench shivering. I can't
> imagine the damage a penny can would do to her.
BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> A meaningful stare was a strong correction.
INDEED?
> That was all the corrections she ever needed.
RIGHT! THAT'S HOWE COME SHE WAS PARANOID.
> She had a very strong desire to please.
diddler means she was VERY SUBMISSIVE.
> Just be quiet about it, please?
On accHOWETN of she was PARANOID.
> Danny was very sensitive, and a strong correction
> for him was NOT meeting his eyes with yours. No
> penny cans (nor choke collars, nor e-collars) for
> him either.
Of curse not, not even when he RAN HOWET ON YOU right
thru your shock fence, REMEBER diddler?
> Reka is the first Elkhound that I could probably
> use a penny can with.
You mean to INTIMDIATE her, diddler?
> Or perhaps a choker.
Well, no dHOWET she'll LOVE that, eh diddler?
> No e-collar, thank you.
Too bad she's MISSIN HOWET on all the FUN:
diddy wrote:
I think 4 hours or so, I had put him in a supposedly
"Secure" place, while I had to leave. When I got
home, he had trashed my house. From then on,
when I left, he got put in the horse stall.
He trashed my horse stall.
He then got a new horse stall, wore a E-collar,
I electrified the perimeter of the stall and we
were finally able to contain him while we worked
on his escape problems.
Once he learned that I was more determined to
defeat him, he finally subdued. But escaping, to
him was a game.
Both of us had a throughly miserable time during
the stand off. The dog is actually now a very good
citizen. He just had to meet someone more determined,
and stubborn and willing to go the distance to do what it
took, before he would stop.
Like I said, I thought he and I were going
to grow old together.
I am not going to go into exactly where we
went before we got that accomplished.
Let's just say it was "ugly"
------------------------------
> But she doesn't need any one of them.
That so, diddler? HOWE abHOWET when you
CAN'T CON-TROLL her from destroying and
swallowin your HOWES, and barkin and whining
and crying all nite for three days straight
till IT was SHITTIN BLOOD from swallowin
STUFF you used to BARRICADE her from destroyin
your BBQ?
> I wonder how she loves kids, doesn't fight
> with dogs (yadda yadda, yadda) and wasn't
> trained by Jerries methods?
You mean THIS Reka, diddler?:
HOWEDY diddler,
diddy wrote:
> in thread news:3k2ao7F...@individual.net: "Tee"
> <crappol...@netscape.net> whittled the following words:
>
> > Tell me then if
> > you feel the same about a penny can. Did you know that a penny can is
> > just as harsh to alot of dogs?
> >
> > --
> > Tara
> >
> >
>
> when I was growing up, we had a dog we got from the humane society. I
> never saw a dog so sound sensitive. If you closed a book, the whooshing
> sound sent her skittering under the piano bench shivering. I can't imagine
> the damage a penny can would do to her. A meaningful stare was a strong
> correction. That was all the corrections she ever needed. She had a very
> strong desire to please. Just be quiet about it, please?
>
> Danny was very sensitive, and a strong correction for him was NOT meeting
> his eyes with yours. No penny cans (nor choke collars, nor e-collars) for
> him either.
>
> Reka is the first Elkhound that I could probably use a penny can with. Or
> perhaps a choker. No e-collar, thank you. But she doesn't need any one of
> them.
> I wonder how she loves kids, doesn't fight with dogs (yadda yadda, yadda)
> and wasn't trained by Jerries methods?
"Franticly And Desperately Demanding To Go Out,
I Finally Put Her In The barn, Locked Securely In A
Horse Stall For The Night," diddler
=============================
"Franticly And Desperately Demanding To Go Out,
I Finally Put Her In The barn, Locked Securely In A
Horse Stall For The Night," diddler
==============================
> When Torin came here, Reka gave Torin Alpha on a plate.
SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE?
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!
> And Reka took over.
SHE DEFENDED HERSELF.
THAT'S ABSURD.
THAT'S INSANE.
NHOWE THAT'S SCARY.
Here's your Danny's WIZE LEADERSHIP, diddler:
You'd think the dog could find his
own way back to his HOWES???
> as well as service dog trained, CDX, etc.
But IT can't find ITS way back to his own HOWES?
> He does all the things that service dogs do
Like run HOWET on his people and not return?
> from opening doors, turning on lights, getting
> clothes and shoes.
You FORGOT MURDERIN the vet's office kitty kat
and escaping and destructively chewing a rug and
gettin locked in a box in an HOWEtbuilding to muffle
his CRYING till he was SHITTIN BLOOD and went in
for intestinal obstruction.
> He is a marvel.
Naaah. You want a MARVEL? Marvel at that
STUPID KAT that PAINICKED when diddler
snared IT in her leg hold STRANGLE / CHOKE
choke trap. She'd have BLUDGEONED IT had
IT not been wearin a collar. Perhaps she was
lookin for a REWARD, bein a SUBSISTANCE
hunter and all.
> He is nine years old but does not
> Kathy
>
> =================================
diddy wrote:
> What we did.
> What we did.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
ThePupp...@animail.net
Rocky wrote:
> Lucy afar said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> >> A penny can would screw up "my" dog royally.
ONLY ABUSED DOGS FEAR STUFF.
> >> A penny can would ruin everything that I've work on.
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!
A penny can woulda TRAINED that dog who BIT
you and took your bag of cookies and swallowed
the squeaky toy you was TRYING to bribe and
intimidate away from him and THEN he went to
the emergency HOWEspital for INTESTINAL SURGERY.
REMEMBER matty?
> >> A penny can would destroy this dog's trust in me.
Your dog DON'T TRUST YOU or IT WOULDN'T BE AFRAID of STUFF.
> > Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys.
>
> Same thing.
Try The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Beans 'N Beer method, matty.
IMPROVISE, matty.
> > Use any sound you can produce from different
> > directions. Use your imagination, for a change.
PROBLEMO.
> "For a change"?
ALL you know is HURT INTIMDIDATE BRIBE AVOID and LIE.
> Keep working at it, you're not quite as obnoxious as Jerry.
INDEED? Lucy is WORSE, on accHOWENT of she gets
all you MENTAL CASES to talk abHOWET HOWE COME
you hurt intimdate and MURDER dogs, matty.
> > And don't forget to praise the dog, each time
> > that you produce the sound.
>
> !!!!CLANG!!!! shut up lucy good girl.
PROBLEMO, matty. You can't use the S-HOWEND
as an AVERSIVE and THEN praise the dog on
accHOWENT of it'd be like beatin your boyfriend
and sendin him FLHOWERS. REMEMBER? THAT DON'T
MAKE SENSE to you, does it, matty.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
HOWEDY matty,
Rocky wrote:
> diddy said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > when I was growing up, we had a dog we got from
> > the humane society. I never saw a dog so sound
> > sensitive.
Dogs FEAR THINGS on accHOWENT of they're ABUSED.
> > If you closed a book, the whooshing sound sent
> > her skittering under the piano bench shivering.
Praising the dog IN ADVANCE and DISTRACTING
and NON PHYSICALLY praising for 5-15 seconds
would EXXXTINGUISH the phobia in a couple of
repetitions IOW NEARLY INSTANTLY <{); ~ ) >
> It's becoming more and more obvious that Lucy
> either knows no dogs well, or has had a "perfect"
> dog, if there is such a thing.
INDEEDY. Lucy got TWO PERFECT dogs JUST LIKE HOWE
ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL
WILD WORLD REPORT RIGHT HERE.
You call them LIARS and their posts FORGERIES, remember matty?
> I'm working on one dog who's scared of
> "things being unrolled," amongst other things.
THAT'S YOUR OWN FEARFUL DOG, matty.
> We've progressed from paper towels to tin
> foil (still working on the latter).
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> > I can't imagine the damage a penny can would do to her.
It wouldn't do ANY "damage" if you'd stop jerking
and choking and intimidating and PRAISE the dog
EVERY TIME you make a BRIEF VARIABLY ALTERNATING
S-HOWEND <{);~ ) >
> A penny can would screw up "my" dog royally.
INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of you're a DOG ABUSER, matty.
> A penny can would ruin everything that I've work on.
YOUR DOG IS DYIN FROM STRESS INDUCED SEIZURES.
REMEMBER matty?
> A penny can would destroy this dog's trust in me.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!
But they don't MIND bein SHOCKED and JERKED and CHOKED.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.Thurs,Jul 7 2005 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: A Question about my dog's
aggressive behavior towards other dogs
HOWEDY matty,
Rocky wrote:
> bala888 said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > I think I will try to start working on the "look at me"
> > command, since it seems to be the least stressful solution
> > for her.
> FWIW, I'm in your area
Well AIN'T THAT CONvienient, eh matty?
PERHAPS you'll train her not to yell at her fearful dog?:
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
PERHAPS she'll come by an give you a pretty cool spankin?:
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
You're a MENTAL CASE, matty. nessa's
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 7 Aug 2003 02:15:55 GMT
Subject: Re: PetSmart Training Class
Tricia9999 said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>> Yet when a handler does something like give a solid collar
>> pop to a dog for challenging another dog, then immediately
>> praise that dog for continuing to work, some people will
>> always see the pop and fail to hear that praise.
>> Go figure.
> We are all like that. If a guy hits his girlfriend, but
> then goes out and buys her some flowers, I'm afraid I am
> much more tuned in to the hit and a bit disdainful of the
> flowers.
How can you equate these two situations?
I need some more explanation, Tricia.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------------
PERHAPS you can try trainin your own fear aggressive
dog while she's payin you for all your ADVICE, eh matty?:
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> My contact information is in my headers.
THIS is ALL the INFORMATION she needs, matty.
NO WON in the "bupkis" thread can CON-TROLL
their own FEAR AGGRESSIVE DOGS unless they're
ABLE to HURT and INTIMIDATE them.
Your "STUDENT" BIT YOU and swallowed the squeaky
toy and stole your bag of cookies you was BRIBING
IT with and went to the emergency HOWEspital for
abdominal surgery, thanks to you, REMEMBER matty?:
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 15 May 2005 16:03:05 GMT
Subject: Re: What does "bupkis" really mean
shelly said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> you've just described elliott. i don't think Lucy would
> have had a clue what to do with him, though. while he's
> easy and forgiving in terms of handling, i think his prey
> drive and dog aggression would've had her in tears.
Hmm. You've got a point. Rocky is dog-dominant, a surprise to
almost everyone - some of whom know him very well. I wonder how
well Lucy reads dog? If she can't, she'd get some ugly
surprises.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAHAAA!!!
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 24 Mar 2005 17:16:47
Subject: Re: help with identifing a dog breed
A mature dog comfortable in its surroundings often
won't need to physically assert its dominance.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 22 Dec 2004 16:58:38 GMT
A Useful Dog
... Rocky, OTOH, I crate when a new dog is introduced -
while he's quick to back off in times of trouble, he's
fairly dominant. -- --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAA!!!
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 25 Jan 2005 17:41:39 GMT
Subject: Re: dominance issue
ceb said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I totally agree with your post and wanted to add my own
> plug for obedience classes [...]
I'll third that. While I haven't taken Friday to obedience
classes, Rocky's past obedience instructor is part of my agility
training group as well as being another co-owner of our new
agility school - so I get all sorts of advice for free.
*Nothing* beats hands-on training with a knowledgeable trainer
you can impartially observe you and your dog's interaction.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!
YOU MEAN, LIKE THIS?:
From: Rocky <2dogsREM...@rocky-dog.com.invalid>;
Date: 26 Jun 2004 04:09:37 GMT
Subject: Re: destructive puppy
Bekki Preston said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I have a German Shepherd female, 1 yr old. We got
> her from the humane society about 2 months ago.
Wonderful! Shelter dogs are wonderful dogs.
> She is wonderful inside the house, but tears everything
> up while she is outside alone during the day. We leave
> her in our fenced yard while we are at work. She finds
> stuff and destroys it. The BBQ cover, a camp chair, plastic
> fencing around the flower garden, even a garage door opener.
Just to be clear: She's OK in your home while you're
present but not OK in your yard while you're not at home?
How is she in your home while you're not there?
> I got her a Kong toy, and a tennis ball chew toy, what
> else can I do? My husband is ready to get rid of her...
Your husband is pretty quick off the trigger if ripping
up stuff that's easily replaced is all that's happened.
Where do you live? I know that in some parts of the world
it's not common to leave your dogs inside while you're not
at home. It's OK where I live.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 21 Jan 2004 03:11:14 GMT
Subject: Re: lost dog found, but already adopted
shelly said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> my neighbors have a dog door and give their dogs 24/7 access
> to their dog yard. there's no way i could do that.
Yup. For the very same reasons that my dogs stay in my yard
(even with the gate open, I've discovered) while I'm at home,
I wouldn't trust them in the yard while I'm not there.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
HOWEDY matty!
> Trade: Exchange
> The P
THAT'S INSANE!
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
CERTAINLY even a MENTAL CASE can SEE THAT
HOWEDY matty,
news:Fri95A66E7693239au...@rocky-dog.com...
That so?
REMEMBER, matty?
BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
BULLSHIT.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM?
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
--Matt
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting your dog will often
> > > make the dog either aggressive or a fear biter,
> > > neither of which we want to do.
> > And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> > No matter what Jerry Howe states.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Is that true, Marilyn?
Of course not~ but THIS IS:
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should
pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work
as efficiently as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior." --Mike Dufort author of the zero selling
book "Courteous Canines"
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Date: 18 Apr 2005 17:58:53 -0700
Subject: Re: digging
HOWEDY matty,
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!
That's IRRELEVENT, matty.
THAT'S IRRELEVENT, matty.
> Honestly,
> we'll help
BWEEEEEEEEJAAAJAJAJAJAJJJAAAAA!!!
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 17 Feb 2004 02:35:03 GMT
Subject: Re: How to protect harmful landscaping from dog?
fish said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> How can I prevent my dog from getting into these flower
> beds, destroying them and possibly harming himself in the
> process?
Training your dog to *not* do this is a start. That wasn't
meant to be flippant. Supervision works best, as does lots
of exercise.
Where does he live while you're not at home?
--
lucy...@claque.net
> On 17 Jul 2005 13:12:25 -0700, "YourConscience"
> <YourLastInnocentHon...@HushMail.Com> wrote:
>
> >> I.e., walk the walk.
> >
> >The ball is in your field, Handsome Jack. Prove that Jerry is wrong.
> >
> >> Ain't gonna happen.
> >
> >Well, that's entirely up to you.
> >
> >Lucy
>
> Interesting that it comes from "Your Conscience" and starts with HOWE
> speak and yet ends with "Lucy" talking about Jerry and signed by
> "Lucy."
Very interesting, indeed - never happened before, when people quote
other people's posts, on Usenet. Even more interesting yet, the fact
that - though Jerry is in everybody's killfiles - you all seem to be
reading Jerry's posts.
Lucy
lucy...@claque.net
> In article <PiVCe.9349$2h1.6011@trnddc05>,
> Christy <easily...@gtenospam.net> wrote:
> >Ahhhh. I didn't catch that, 'cos I have that name in my killfile. Very, very
> >good catch, Paula. Guess that's another sock puppet revealed...
>
> This kind of thing is pretty easy to check. Most news
> interfaces stick the poster's IP address somewhere in the
> header. Google constructs an "Injection-Info" header. In
> this case Jerry was posting from 24.110.196.12 and Loser
> from 217.132.121.111. Other fields in the header are
> consistent with the two posts coming not just from different
> addresses but from different continents. I think that in
> this case what probably happened is that Jerry gave a
> virtuoso display of his complete inability to master an
> editor.
>
> I realize that Lucy is such a bonehead that you can't help
> thinking that it's not possible for someone to be such a
> dolt and there must be some other explanation, but as I've
> said before, it's in the nature of averages that somebody/
> something has to be below average, and thus it is that we
> have Lucy.
Sure. Not all of us are gifted enough to sing "The Girl of Ipanema"
while simultaneously holding a dog's rear end (how do you do it with a
Great Dane or a Saint Bernard, Melinda? THAT must be a sight to see!),
so a simple-minded person like me needs a simple working method like
Jerry's.
Lucy
lucy...@claque.net
> in thread news:1121713946.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:> > Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys. Use any sound
> > you can produce from different directions. Use your imagination, for a
> > the sound.
> >
> >
>
> For heavens sakes. Keys would be like beating the dog. If i start beating
> the dog, then praise it, would that make them LIKE being beaten?
> You have limited sense of what a sound sensitive dog is.
Do your sound sensitive dogs live in acoustically isolated
environments? Do they spend their lives in absolute silence? Do these
unfortunate dogs ever bark? Do they scratch? The mere sound of it must
make them shake in terror. What about the sound of their teeth crushing
their dry food? Is that not traumatic to them?
And then, what about the sound of the choke chain behind their ears? Or
the sound of your voice telling them "No!" (or "No"; or "no")? These
sounds must sound like music to their ears, no doubt.
Lucy
lucy...@claque.net
> <lucy...@claque.net> wrote in message
> news:1121713946.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> >
> > My puppy is a fearless little guy. He won't be scared by sounds or
> > things or critters - he would even accept a bath, if he can't avoid it.
>
> Well hey. Get back to us when you have a dog that isn't perfect, mmkay?
I already HAD such a puppy: he used to bite, he used to annoy my older
dog, he used to make holes in blankets and dig like mad right in the
middle of the sofa. He managed to chew to pieces a USB cable from the
digital camera, a cellular phone and several history books. Thanks to
him I even had the opportunity to look at the inside of a computer
diskette. He had some other ideas of "home improvement" that I couldn't
agree with - like moving the content of the garbage bin on the
living-room carpet. It's the same puppy that is now my perfect dog that
has caused your "friendly" remark.
> > Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys. Use any sound
> > you can produce from different directions. Use your imagination, for a
> > change. And don't forget to praise the dog, each time that you produce
> > the sound.
>
> Oh, for God's sake! Can you not accept that some things won't work with ALL
> DOGS?
You mean, some things like PRAISING the bad behavior? Really, I cannot
see what kind of dog would be harmed by that; maybe you could enlighten
me. Because it's not the SOUND distraction that is bothering you all,
Christy (you could use anything you want as a sound distraction - or no
sound at all: a flashlight would do, a bouncing ball, any kind of
DISTRACTION which is NOT used as a PUNISHMENT). What bothers you all is
the PRAISE.
> Why must you insist that every dog has to be trained with whatever
> method you worship, regardless of how inappropriate it is for that dog? I
> don't see anyone else here doing that. Interesting.
Is praising a dog for bad behavior more inappropriate than a choke
collar, a prong collar or an e-collar, especially IN THE HANDS OF THE
AVERAGE DOG OWNER, as most of the posters here are? Despite all the
dangers inherent to the INAPPROPRIATE use of these tools - even if the
fact that you have to hurt your dog (be it only momentarily and with a
limited amount of pain inflicted) is acceptable to you in order to make
him behave? Or is it preferable to have to live with his behavior
problems, despite all the "training" you subject him to?
Lucy
lucy...@claque.net
> lucy...@claque.net wrote:
>
> > diddy wrote:
>
> >
> > You don't have to use a penny can on a dog who is sensitive to sounds.
> > You can use a snap of your fingers, your keys, the sound made by a
> > plastic bag suddenly moved, or any environmental sound that happens at
>
> All of which can be devastating to a noise-sensitive dog. I know a dog
> who, if you make a soft, quiet, BZZZTT sound, will literally flee the room.
>
> Any time NOISE is made into an aversive, you are just adding problems to
> the dog's repetoire.
That's your mistake: the sound must NOT be used as an AVERSIVE; the
PRAISE should work as a punishment, NOT the NOISE. As a matter of fact,
you do not need the noise AT ALL: you could use light. You could use a
bouncing ball. You could use a scent. You could use ANYTHING that
briefly distracts the dog, alternating the direction from which the
distraction is produced.
> You are teaching that NOISES mean BAD things. This
> is not something I would ever teach my dog, as it tends to make them
> neurotic.
Of course. ANYTHING can be turned into a bad thing if used ineptly.
Jerry's manual, which you haven't read, shows the right way to use
distraction-and-praise in order to make your dog obey not out of fear,
not out of greed, but out of trust and love for you. Horrible notion,
no doubt.
Lucy
lucy...@claque.net
> on 2005-07-18 at 19:08 <rob...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> >Any time NOISE is made into an aversive, you are just adding
> >mean BAD things. This is not something I would ever teach my
> >dog, as it tends to make them neurotic.
>
> that she needn't be concerned about noises. why on *earth*
> would i turn around and teach her that she was right all
> along? that would, i think, be cruel.
While letting her fight with Elliott until they need vet assistance is
kind and caring, of course.
Lucy
lucy...@claque.net
> lucy...@claque.net wrote in
> news:1121713526....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
> > diddy wrote:
> <snip>
> >> whooshing sound sent her skittering under the piano bench shivering.
> >> stare was a strong correction. That was all the corrections she ever
> >> needed. She had a very strong desire to please. Just be quiet about
> >> it, please?
> >>
> >> Danny was very sensitive, and a strong correction for him was NOT
> >> meeting his eyes with yours. No penny cans (nor choke collars, nor
> >> e-collars) for him either.
> >
> > You can use a snap of your fingers, your keys, the sound made by a
> > plastic bag suddenly moved, or any environmental sound that happens at
> > the right time.
>
> sensitive, no matter what the sound.
Then they should be terrified at the sound of their owner's voice too,
don't you think? Or MAYBE sound sensitive is still a matter of CERTAIN
sounds, at CERTAIN sound intensity, after all?
> If it startles them, it is a bad
> thing.
How bad is a sound that just makes you stop for a moment and turn your
head in its direction? Like a door suddenly opening, or someone saying
"Hey!"?
> Another point you should consider is that using an environmental
> noise is rarely successful.
It depends on the timing and the context. It isn't successful if you
count on it to work as an aversive.
> If we could rely on an environmental noise to
> distract dogs from doing something (bad or good) than they would never do
> anything at all.
Because you think of it as an aversive, and it DOESN'T WORK in such a
way.
> how is the dog supposed to know if a noise they heard is
> an environmental noise they are supposed to acknowledge as a distraction,
> or just something that they can ignore.
Now THAT'S a really silly question. The dog doesn't give a damn about
what you think he should acknowledge or ignore; he is either
distracted, or isn't. But if the dog IS distracted by a sound that
happens in the environment, you CAN use the opportunity in order to
PRAISE the dog. It isn't as complicated as you guys are trying to make
it sound (pun intended), really.
> Take a hunting dog for example. I
> am pretty sure (and HJM and Kate can probably back me up on this) that you
> do not want a hunting dog distracted by envoironmental sounds.
Then DON'T use the environmental sounds in this way for a hunting dog.
But if your hunting dog is so sound sensitive that he's startled by the
sound of your keys, I wonder what the sound of your gun is going to do
to him.
Lucy
lucy...@claque.net
> on 2005-07-18 at 19:12 <mbea...@scintrextrace.com> wrote:
>
> >how is the dog supposed to know if a noise they heard is an
> >environmental noise they are supposed to acknowledge as a
> >distraction, or just something that they can ignore.
>
> punishment on Mondays, but on Tuesdays, it's arbitrary and
> meaningless?
Simple: you DON'T use SOUND as a PUNISHMENT; you use PRAISE as a
PUNISHMENT. The sound is only a DISTRACTION. You can use lots of OTHER
things as distraction. But you always punish with PRAISE.
Lucy
lucy...@claque.net
> HOWEDY Lucy,
>
> Thank you!.
You're welcome, Jerry. But when thinking of what I owe you and your
method in what the welfare of my dogs is concerned, it is *I* who
should thank YOU, rather than the other way round.
> Bye the bye, while you're here abHOWETS you MIGHT
> just wanna ask professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
> "NO!" INTO ITS FACE for five seconds and lock IT
> in a box for ten minutes contimplation" dermer of
> UofWI department of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM or his
> partner dr mark plonsky of the ethology departmet
> THE SAME SAME SAME SAME questions.
I'd be glad to. As a matter of fact, my questions are addressed to all
the dog specialists around here. I really want your method discussed in
a cold, dispassionate way, since I believe (from the replies I'm
getting, now as in the past) that those who criticize you the most also
lack the most basic understanding of what your method is really about.
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Take care,
Lucy
Marcel Beaudoin
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> That's your mistake: the sound must NOT be used as an AVERSIVE; the
> PRAISE should work as a punishment, NOT the NOISE.
Of course, the fact that you are using the praise as a punishment means
that, for the rest of the dogs life, you can't be praising the dog for
doing something right or try any other training system that relies on
praise for...ummm...praise.
--
Marcel Beaudoin
news:1121767934.2...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Marcel Beaudoin wrote:
<snip>
>> If we could rely on an environmental noise to
>> distract dogs from doing something (bad or good) than they would
>> never do anything at all.
>
> Because you think of it as an aversive, and it DOESN'T WORK in such a
> way.
(looks through post to see where I said that the sound was an aversive,
sees only comments by me about a) using sound as a distraction and b)
sound-sensitive dogs)
Ummm, you are awfully focused on aversives.
Robin Nuttall
> shelly wrote:
>
>
>
> Simple: you DON'T use SOUND as a PUNISHMENT; you use PRAISE as a
> PUNISHMENT. The sound is only a DISTRACTION. You can use lots of OTHER
> things as distraction. But you always punish with PRAISE.
>
> Lucy
>
Ooo! New sig file, new sig file--who wants to claim it?
So....Lucy. If all praise is punishment, then is all punishment praise?
If you are beating the dog, is that then a good thing?
sighthounds & siberians
>diddy wrote:
>> in thread news:1121713946.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>> lucy...@claque.net whittled the following words:
>>
>> >
>> > Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys. Use any sound
>> > you can produce from different directions. Use your imagination, for a
>> > change. And don't forget to praise the dog, each time that you produce
>> > the sound.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> For heavens sakes. Keys would be like beating the dog. If i start beating
>> the dog, then praise it, would that make them LIKE being beaten?
>> You have limited sense of what a sound sensitive dog is.
>
>Do your sound sensitive dogs live in acoustically isolated
>environments? Do they spend their lives in absolute silence? Do these
>unfortunate dogs ever bark? Do they scratch? The mere sound of it must
>make them shake in terror. What about the sound of their teeth crushing
>their dry food? Is that not traumatic to them?
Lucy, Lucy, Lucy. I promised myself I wouldn't respond to your posts,
because I really don't need any more aggravation right now, but I
can't resist. Feel free to talk about how to handle dog problems you
have personally dealt with. However, if you've never had a dog with
shyness, spookiness, noise, or other issues, you shouldn't tell people
how to handle them. I have a dog that I don't believe is genetically
shy, like my spooky Greyhounds are, but her upbringing was such that
she was afraid of virtually everything when I got her just over 5
years ago at about 1 1/2 years old. She lived with 27 other dogs - -
Borzoi, big dogs - - in a townhouse with a woman and her dog and
wife-beating husband. She was on the bottom of the pecking order and
was covered in feces and urine when rescued, and it took months for
the stains and bleaching to grow out of her coat and nails. None of
the dogs was neutered, and they bred at will. At some point the
people stopped doing anything for/with the dogs, and many of the
younger dogs had never been outside. Think about that: *never been
outside*. When we got her, Trissa was frightened of wind, traffic
noise, trains, leaves blowing, nighttime, men, women... Now, she's
infinitely better. She warms up to most strangers who come to the
house pretty quickly, even kids. For at least the first two years,
she was so spooky that I couldn't raise my voice to her - - she'd pee
and poop, sort of like a startled buzzard - - so I had to use very,
very mild sound distractions, like a hiss or "psst", or a visual
distraction like waving. Now, at about 6 1/2, she's showing what her
real personality is - - she's a Borzoi Brat. If I'm letting everybody
out and she doesn't feel like getting up, she looks me straight in the
face and ignores me (I feel like she's flipping me off). I can almost
yell "no" and she looks at me like "I know you're not talking to me".
Sighthounds aren't usually barky, but she does bark occasionally,
usually when pouncing at another dog in a somewhat dysfunctional
invitation to play. Oddly enough, the sound of chewing her own food
doesn't seem to bother her a bit. But an unexpected noise, whether
it's caused by her accidentally knocking something over while snooping
around, or by someone or something else, still makes her jump a foot.
A shake can would probably give her a heart attack.
My point is that, in spite of what your idol tells you, All Dogs Are
Not Alike, and One Training Size Does Not Fit All.
Here's where Jerry posts that my dog's bone cancer was caused by
mishandling. Killfiles, especially when set to automatically delete,
are such wonderful things.
Mustang Sally
shelly
>While letting her fight with Elliott until they need vet
>assistance
FTR, none of the above is actually true.
i did not, and have never, "let" her fight with elliott. the
"fight" in question was a very minor squabble (it was easily
broken up by my saying "knock it off"). the injury she
sustained could have easily happened in play.
and, she did not need "vet assistance." antibiotics were
prescribed as a safety precaution, but the injury itself was
untreated.
>is kind and caring, of course.
i like to think i am. but, then, most owners think they are.
i dare say even you believe you're kind and caring.
--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com/ (updated 7/10/05)
shelly
>you use PRAISE as a PUNISHMENT.
YOU DOG ABUSING THUG!!!1!11
shelly
>How bad is a sound that just makes you stop for a moment and
>turn your head in its direction? Like a door suddenly
>opening, or someone saying "Hey!"?
i dunno. how bad is a pinch or nick that just makes you stop
for a moment and turn your head in its direction?
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
@attbi_s72:
> lucy...@claque.net wrote:
>> shelly wrote:
Heh.
But who knows what the heck "Lucy" is really talking about?
I know that I don't.
Besides, I DON'T THINK SHE UNDERSTANDS BEHAVIORAL TERMINOLOGY.
And until she shows us that she does, it's pretty much impossible to
discuss canine behavior with her.
The phrase "punish with praise" alone makes my head hurt.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
Rocky
> Here's where Jerry posts that my dog's bone cancer was
> caused by mishandling.
Jerry probably viewed my Murphy's death at 14 from osteosarcoma
as an abuse issue. I know that he gloated over her death.
> Killfiles, especially when set to
> automatically delete, are such wonderful things.
Lucy's entertainment value is quickly waning.
Rocky
>> Well hey. Get back to us when you have a dog that isn't
>> perfect, mmkay?
>
> I already HAD such a puppy: he used to bite, he used to
> annoy my older dog, he used to make holes in blankets and
> dig like mad right in the middle of the sofa. He managed to
> chew to pieces a USB cable from the digital camera, a
> cellular phone and several history books. Thanks to him I
> even had the opportunity to look at the inside of a
> computer diskette. He had some other ideas of "home
> improvement" that I couldn't agree with - like moving the
> content of the garbage bin on the living-room carpet.
In other words, he was acting like a puppy, albeit a poorly
supervised puppy.
> It's the same puppy that is now my perfect dog [...]
In other words, your puppy grew up.
Rocky
> Of course. ANYTHING can be turned into a bad thing if used
> ineptly.
Even Kool-Aid.
lucy...@claque.net
> On 19 Jul 2005 01:25:53 -0700, lucy...@claque.net wrote:
>
> >diddy wrote:
> >> in thread news:1121713946.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> >> lucy...@claque.net whittled the following words:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys. Use any sound
> >> > you can produce from different directions. Use your imagination, for a
> >> > change. And don't forget to praise the dog, each time that you produce
> >> > the sound.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> For heavens sakes. Keys would be like beating the dog. If i start beating
> >> the dog, then praise it, would that make them LIKE being beaten?
> >> You have limited sense of what a sound sensitive dog is.
> >
> >Do your sound sensitive dogs live in acoustically isolated
> >environments? Do they spend their lives in absolute silence? Do these
> >unfortunate dogs ever bark? Do they scratch? The mere sound of it must
> >make them shake in terror. What about the sound of their teeth crushing
> >their dry food? Is that not traumatic to them?
>
> Lucy, Lucy, Lucy. I promised myself I wouldn't respond to your posts,
> because I really don't need any more aggravation right now, but I
> can't resist.
Hi, Sally!
I'm very sorry for what you're going through with Tasha - I've been
hoping that, despite the gloomy symptoms, the tests would show that it
wasn't cancer after all - and I'll do my best to reply in a way that
won't cause you more unnecessary aggravation.
> Feel free to talk about how to handle dog problems you
> have personally dealt with.
> However, if you've never had a dog with
> shyness, spookiness, noise, or other issues, you shouldn't tell people
> how to handle them. I have a dog that I don't believe is genetically
> shy, like my spooky Greyhounds are, but her upbringing was such that
> she was afraid of virtually everything when I got her just over 5
> years ago at about 1 1/2 years old. She lived with 27 other dogs - -
> Borzoi, big dogs - - in a townhouse with a woman and her dog and
> wife-beating husband. She was on the bottom of the pecking order and
> was covered in feces and urine when rescued, and it took months for
> the stains and bleaching to grow out of her coat and nails.
Poor dog!
> None of
> the dogs was neutered, and they bred at will. At some point the
> people stopped doing anything for/with the dogs, and many of the
> younger dogs had never been outside. Think about that: *never been
> outside*. When we got her, Trissa was frightened of wind, traffic
> noise, trains, leaves blowing, nighttime, men, women... Now, she's
> infinitely better. She warms up to most strangers who come to the
> house pretty quickly, even kids. For at least the first two years,
> she was so spooky that I couldn't raise my voice to her - - she'd pee
> and poop, sort of like a startled buzzard - - so I had to use very,
> very mild sound distractions, like a hiss or "psst", or a visual
> distraction like waving.
THAT was exactly my point, Sally, when I repeatedly said that the penny
can was NOT what the method was about. Even a very, very sound
sensitive dog can be distracted, in the ways you mention above.
> Now, at about 6 1/2, she's showing what her
> real personality is - - she's a Borzoi Brat. If I'm letting everybody
> out and she doesn't feel like getting up, she looks me straight in the
> face and ignores me (I feel like she's flipping me off). I can almost
> yell "no" and she looks at me like "I know you're not talking to me".
Oh, I do know that look! In such instances, what suddenly turns them
back into the "I-hear-you mode" is when I say "What a GOOD BOY he is!
What a GOOD GIRL she is!"
> Sighthounds aren't usually barky, but she does bark occasionally,
> usually when pouncing at another dog in a somewhat dysfunctional
> invitation to play. Oddly enough, the sound of chewing her own food
> doesn't seem to bother her a bit. But an unexpected noise, whether
> it's caused by her accidentally knocking something over while snooping
> around, or by someone or something else, still makes her jump a foot.
If praise is to the dog what Jerry says it is (and my experience with
my dogs makes me believe that he is right), perhaps praising her when
this happens might make her calm down?
> A shake can would probably give her a heart attack.
I'd never use a penny can for this dog, Sally. I'd use a different kind
of distraction, like what you do, but alternating the direction of the
sound - or maybe I'd use something ELSE than a sound in order to
capture the dog's attention.
But the issue that people here have with the method is the PRAISE, not
the shake can, since the shake can is only an example of how to produce
the distraction from different directions. The fact that the source of
the distraction should come from a different direction than the
previous one is essential for the method to work, but it certainly can
be done by using other things than a penny can.
> My point is that, in spite of what your idol tells you, All Dogs Are
> Not Alike, and One Training Size Does Not Fit All.
I can't speak for Jerry, but the way *I* understand the method is that
all the dogs react to PRAISE in the same way, not that there are no
individual variations in how the dogs react to sound. The problem of
how to apply Jerry's method to training a deaf dog has been raised
several times in this context with the intention to shoot down the
distraction-and-praise as unfit for such a dog, and Jerry told what
could be used instead of the penny can (which was obviously
inapplicable in such a case).
> Here's where Jerry posts that my dog's bone cancer was caused by
> mishandling. Killfiles, especially when set to automatically delete,
> are such wonderful things.
Yes, they are. I do not necessarily agree with EVERYTHING that Jerry
posts, though I think that he has a point when saying that many kinds
of illnesses (including cancer) often are produced or accelerated by
stress. But "many" doesn't equal "all" and blaming someone unjustly for
the illness of their beloved dog is an unnecessary and unwarranted
cruelty, IMO.
I wish you and your dog all the best, whether you believe me or not.
Lucy
Paula
>sighthounds & siberians said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>> Here's where Jerry posts that my dog's bone cancer was
>> caused by mishandling.
>
>Jerry probably viewed my Murphy's death at 14 from osteosarcoma
>as an abuse issue. I know that he gloated over her death.
I was wondering how Murphy could live for 14 years with such a dog
abusing thug but then I figured it out. You strung it out so that she
would be miserable enough to get cancer but not enough to do permanent
harm so that you could have her around longer to abuse her longer,
right? It all makes sense now! I'm sure that medical journals would
all back this theory up.
I can tell from all your pictures that your dogs are absolutely
miserable. I'll bet you get a lot of business because other people
want experienced abusers to help them to abuse their dogs, too.
--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay
It's Only Alimentary, Dear Watson
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 19 Jul 2005 01:25:53 -0700, lucy...@claque.net wrote:
>
> >diddy wrote:
> >> in thread news:1121713946.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> >> lucy...@claque.net whittled the following words:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys.
> >> > Use any sound you can produce from different directions.
Or ANY brief variably alternating NON PHYSICAL distraction.
> >> > Use your imagination,
Ooops!
> >> > for a change.
HOWER DOG LOVERS DON'T WANT CHANGE, on accHOWENT
of THAT would PROVE EVERY THING THEY BELIEVED IS
DEAD WRONG <{); ~ ) >
> >> > And don't forget to praise the dog,
HOWER DOG LOVERS CAN'T DO THAT if their dog
is DISRESPECTING their AUTHORITY <{); ~ ) >
> >> > each time that you produce the sound.
HOWER DOG LOVERS PREFER TO HURT INTIMIDATE CHOKE
SHOCK BEAT CRATE AVOID and MURDER their dogs
RATHER THAN PRAISING their BAD BEHAVIORS on
accHOWENT of THAT would REWARD their fearful
for DISRESPECTING their AUTHORITY <{); ~ ) >
> >> For heavens sakes. Keys would be like beating the dog.
Of curse.
Dogs FEAR S-HOWENDS on accHOWENT of THEY'VE BEEN ABUSED.
> >> If i start beating the dog, then praise it,
> >> would that make them LIKE being beaten?
PROBABLY SO. Kinda JUST LIKE HOWE you LOVED your
abusive parents for beatin RESPECT into you.
> >> You have limited sense of what a sound sensitive dog is.
Yeah. A S-HOWEND SENSITIVE DOG IS A VICTIM OF ABUSE.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> > Do your sound sensitive dogs live in acoustically isolated
> > environments? Do they spend their lives in absolute silence?
> > Do these unfortunate dogs ever bark? Do they scratch? The
> > mere sound of it must make them shake in terror. What about
> > the sound of their teeth crushing their dry food? Is that
> > not traumatic to them?
>
> Lucy, Lucy, Lucy.
racetrack silly, racetrack silly racetrack silly!
> I promised myself I wouldn't respond to your posts,
Yeah, but you CAN'T CON-TROLL yourself on accHOWENT
of you'll DO and SAY ANY THING to DEFEND your alleged
RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER your own DEAD DOGS.
> because I really don't need any more aggravation right now,
Close to the breakin point, racetrack silly?
Most of you dog abusing punk thug coward mental
cases oughtta be goin INSANE what with all this
JERRY STUFF again, eh racetrack silly, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> but I can't resist.
PERHAPS you should increase orchange your meds, eh
racetrack silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> Feel free to talk about how to handle dog
> problems you have personally dealt with.
Lucy DONE THAT... withHOWET MURDERING HER OWN
DEAD DOGS like HOWE you and tara o. aka tee
and kwbrown done.
> However, if you've never had a dog with shyness,
> spookiness, noise, or other issues, you shouldn't
> tell people how to handle them.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!
> I have a dog that I don't believe is genetically shy,
THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING, racetrack silly.
> like my spooky Greyhounds are,
Your dogs are SPOOKY on accHOWENT of YOU ABUSE THEM.
> but her upbringing was such that she was afraid of
> virtually everything when I got her just over 5
> years ago at about 1 1/2 years old.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
HOWE COME she WASN'T SCARED of EVERY THING when
she was livin on the racetrack, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> She lived with 27 other dogs - - Borzoi, big dogs - -
> in a townhouse with a woman and her dog and wife-beating
> husband.
Oh? So she wasn't off the racetrack... silly The
Amazing Puppy Wizard, ain't HE, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> She was on the bottom of the pecking order
That's sheer IDIOCY.
> and was covered in feces and urine when rescued,
"RESCUED"???
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
> and it took months for the stains and bleaching to grow
> out of her coat and nails. None of the dogs was neutered,
Good. Surgical sexual mutilation MAKES DOGS FEAR AGGRESSIVE.
> and they bred at will.
S-HOWENDS LIKE FUN, not ABUSE, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> At some point the people stopped doing anything for/with the dogs,
You mean they stopped jerkin and choking them?
> and many of the younger dogs had never been outside.
NO PROLEMO. You can rehabilitate kennelosis in a
couple days using your FREE COPY of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual <{); ~ ) >
> Think about that:
YEAH, THINK ABHOWET THAT, racetrack silly, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
> *never been outside*.
Oh? You mean he got NO FEARS from BAD EXXXPOSURES
to being HOWEtside, a veritable CLEAN SLATE, a
BLANK PAGE, eh racetrack silly racetrack silly,
racetrack silly?
> When we got her, Trissa was frightened of wind, traffic
> noise, trains, leaves blowing, nighttime, men, women...
Oh...
> Now, she's infinitely better.
You mean your "SPOOKY" dog is MUCH BETTER after five years
of you jerking choking and locking IT in a box and sprayin
aversives in her face.
> She warms up to most strangers who come
> to the house pretty quickly, even kids.
"MOST," hunh?
> For at least the first two years, she was so
> spooky that I couldn't raise my voice to her -
Naaah? DO TELL?
> - she'd pee and poop, sort of like a startled buzzard -
You mean she'd shit an piss herself when you INTIMIDATED IT,
racetrack silly racetrack silly, racetrack silly <{): ~ ) >
> - so I had to use very, very mild sound distractions,
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> like a hiss or "psst", or a visual distraction like waving.
ADIOS, racetrack silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly.
> Now, at about 6 1/2, she's showing what her real
> personality is - - she's a Borzoi Brat.
That so?
> If I'm letting everybody out and she doesn't feel like
> getting up, she looks me straight in the face and ignores
> me (I feel like she's flipping me off).
DUH?
> I can almost yell "no"
That so?
> and she looks at me like "I know you're not talking to me".
Naaah. You'd NEVER yell at her on accHOWENT of she'd
shit an piss herself. REMEMBER, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> Sighthounds aren't usually barky,
That so? Couldn't tell by LISTENING to them barkin
constantly at the kennels, could you?
> but she does bark occasionally,
Naah?
> usually when pouncing at another dog in a somewhat
> dysfunctional invitation to play. Oddly enough,
> the sound of chewing her own food doesn't seem to
> bother her a bit.
IMAGINE? PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENT Of you
got to LOCK IT IN A BOX to FEED your dogs or
they'll ATTACK each other in a dysfunctional
game of SELF DEFENSE?
> But an unexpected noise, whether it's caused by her
> accidentally knocking something over while snooping
> around, or by someone or something else, still makes
> her jump a foot.
Well then, after FIVE YEARS of WORKIN at it you AIN'T
DONE SO GOOD, have you, racetrack silly, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> A shake can would probably give her a heart attack.
Yeah, on accHOWENT of ALL SHE KNOWS IS ABUSE from you.
> My point is that, in spite of what your idol tells
> you, All Dogs Are Not Alike, and One Training Size
> Does Not Fit All.
Well then, HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Students REPORT CURING
FEAR OF THUNDER and SEPARATION ANXXXIHOWESNESS in ten
and twelve year old PROBLEM DOSS IN WON DAY, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> Here's where Jerry posts that my dog's bone
> cancer was caused by mishandling.
INDEEDY. Cancers are STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >
> Killfiles, especially when set to automatically
> delete, are such wonderful things.
That so, racetrack silly? HOWE COME you KNOW The
Amazing Puppy Wizard BLAMED YOU for CAUSING your
dog's CANCERS, racetrack silly, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly?
You've got SEIZURES and CANCERS IN ALMOST ALL YOUR DOGS.
> Mustang Sally
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
Hey, racetrack silly? HERE'S A "POSITIVE THOUGHT":
You and your mental case pals can't post here abHOWETS
nodoGgamenedMOORE.
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 09:27:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Dog defecates during walks
Clearly, my stating the facts is not enough for Lucy;
perhaps she needs some sort of tangible proof, or perhaps
she thinks Jerry knows what I do better than I do.
In either case, she's proven herself incapable of reason,
and therefore a waste of time.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:48:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Fencing
It's astounding. We used livestock electric fence at the bottom of
our fence some years back because of a certain digging husky with
wanderlust. This was fairly new electric fencing, the shock was mild,
said husky touched it any number of times, and I can guarandamntee you
it didn't do anything horrible to her body or her mind.
If I live to be 100, I will never understand the mentality of people
who have no knowledge of a subject but still feel free, apparently
compelled even, to opine on that subject.
When it's people in another country,
it's nothing short of mind-boggling.
Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:21:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Stop Barking Products
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:07:02 -0600, Katra <K...@centurytel.net>
wrote:
>"sighthounds etc." wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:50:59 -0600, Katra <K...@centurytel.net>
>> wrote:
> Sorry, I don't hang out here enough anymore to recognize
> the morons... :-) Except for Jerry.
They can be difficult to recognize when they pretend to be someone
else. It must be a pretty fun game, as both Jerry and Mikey devote a
lot of time to it, especially when one considers what busy people they
are.
> Bark collars are supposed to work pretty well and a good
> one runs less han $100.00. He ought to just try one and
> see if it works. He won't be out much. <shrugs>
There is some controversy about the humane-ness of citronella collars
because dogs' noses are so sensitive. I've tried citronella collars
on our kenneled adoption dogs, and they didn't appear to be able to
figure out the connection between their noise and the squirt.
>Or keep the dog inside.....
Now that's a pretty foolproof method of dealing
with problematic outdoor barking.
Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:18:01 -0500
Subject: Re: BTW, Who am I
I don't know that Sibes generally go home on their own; many don't, or
they wouldn't end up in shelters. I don't know if it's coincidence
that one of our permanent Sibes did this and one of our fosters did
too. But I think Siberians *can* find their way home, at least based
on my experience, where Greyhounds apparently usually can't. I don't
know why Greyhounds can't; I guess it doesn't occur to them to use
their noses to sniff their way back home. Of course, Greyhounds often
are several miles away from home by the time they stop and consider
what they're doing. In our case, it took our Siberian to find our
Greyhound. doG knows what would have happened to Matty if not for
Tasha, since he wouldn't come to us. Guess we would have had to try
darting him.
Invisible fences should not be used (except as reinforcerment for
normal-height fences ) with northern breeds and sighthounds, period.
Sally Hennessey
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:12:56 -0500
Subject: Seiure land
OK, living in this house is an epileptic Greyhound that hasn't had a
seizure in 3 years, and epileptic IG that has a seizure (sometimes GM,
but inconsistent) every couple of months or so, a non-epileptic
Siberian that has a GM seizure every year or so, and a very badly bred
Miniature Dachshund that has atypical apparent seizure activity at
irregular intervals (but once on the same day the IG had one). So
half an hour ago, I hear strange cat howling noises from the kitchen,
and upon investigating, there's Dolce having a tonic seizure on the
kitchen table.
It must be the house.
Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:27:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Bullmastiff bullies my Staffordshire Bull Terrier
That is just *exactly* what I was going to say. I had one aggressive
female (Dal) and a dominant female that would die before she'd back
down (Sibe). We tried just about everything, and had we kept them
both, I am convinced that one would have killed the other. These were
fights that caused injuries every time.
Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:11:28 -0400
Local: Sat,Apr 16 2005 12:11 pm
Subject: Re: Mojo,Luke and Taffy update
If we had known that the vet was going to treat it as MMM regardless
of the biopsy results, we'd never have put Tasha through that.
Specialists are great and all that, but I think he did a lot of tests
just because he could. That internist is gone from our vet's practice
now, and at first I was sorry, but now I'm not so sure. Yesterday I
took Abby the kitty in because I thought she might be hyperthyroid.
She isn't, but she probably has IBD. I asked the vet how they'd treat
it, and he said that if the specialist were there he'd scope her and
then they'd treat with prednisone. Since the specialist isn't there,
he's going to treat with prednisone because she has the symptoms
(she's also 15, and I wouldn't want to put her through endoscopy).
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:57:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Fear aggression
While most of my dogs are well-behaved when left alone unconfined,
my Whippets are not, and it is simply not possible to sufficiently
proof' my home from dogs that can jump baby gates and get onto tables
and counters when no one is home.
No, of course they don't do that when we're
home, but they sure do when we're gone.
They aren't really destructive, though my female that enjoys
chewing up plastic, but they're very food oriented, and their
definition of food differs from ours, so they're crated for
their own protection. I've found crate training to be very
useful when a dog is ill or injured and needs to be confined
for medical purposes; and this happens more often than you
might think.
I hate to spoil the image of cruel Americans locking up their
dogs in boxes all day, but, well, it's BS, so there you go.
To the OP: it's very difficult to say what's going on with
your dog without observing him. I've had several very fearful
dogs, one of which had some minor fear aggression when she felt
absolutely trapped, but this resolved on its own as she became
more confident.
If there are specific things which trigger Sunny's fear aggression,
you could work on desensitizing her to those things, but in general,
I think you need either a behaviorist or a very good trainer who
deals with aggression problems.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:43:17 -0500
Subject: Re: New dog, need reassurance
The owner is the critical thing though - - you set the rules,
you decide what's acceptable, your attitude conveys that to
your dogs.
We currently have two males that really don't get along.
To minimize stress for animals and humans, they are kept separate.
No amount of training or alpha attitude is going to change
how they feel about each other, but they won't go after each
other if DH or I is/am present.
They will we're not around, though.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: greyhound <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:10:07 -0500
Subject: Re: your dog's breed
I don't know about yours, but all the Siberians we've had maintain
some degree of aloofness. They're affectionate, sleep on the bed and
all that, but they're always independent. When a Sibe gets clingy,
it's a good indication that something's wrong. As ours age, though,
they become a bit less independent. A couple of weeks ago, Tasha, who
was on the bed, crawled over and curled up right next to me, almost on
top of me, and cuddled. She was trembling a bit, and I thought she
might be about to have another seizure, but the moment passed. I
imagined calling the vet: "I need to bring Tasha in because she's
cuddling."
How bittersweet that you and Duncan bonded more toward the end of his
life than in the years before. He always knew who he loved and
trusted, and when he felt himself failing, you're what he wanted.
Hope you're feeling better.
Mustang Sally
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:54:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Injured By Dogs????
There are some dogs that will never bite a human under any
circumstances, and some that will bite a human when in pain.
Tasha is apparently one of the latter - - she bit my hand
when I closed her paw in a baby gate - - and I don't think
any less of her because of it, nor do I consider it a
reflection on her training. The incident showed us that
that type of baby gate wasn't the best design for use
with dogs, and we got rid of it.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:01:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Dog fight, dog bite, aaaiiiieeeeee
Heh. Probably confuses the dogs, too. I'll have to keep that
in mind if I have to break up a fight again. Keeping calm is
always recommended, but usually harder than actually breaking
up the fight.
The fights we've had in the last few years are nothing compared
to the ones between the Sibe and Dal (one of the worst things about
their fights was that once you separated them, you had to hold onto
them and be *very*careful, because if they got half a chance, they'd
go after each other again.
The Dal always started it, but Tasha, as you might
guess, never backed down. Anyway, it's easier to
stay calm now because I know the dogs don't have
death as a goal, as they seemed to.
Staying calm also has a lot to do with the dogs'
behavior when you try to break up the fight.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 08:30:40 -0500
Subject: Re: my brother's dog
Assuming you could have found someone who knew what
they were doing. When the problems with Justy and
Tasha started, we contacted everyone we could think
of, including the Dal rescue people and trainers.
There weren't any behaviorists around, but someone,
I don't remember who, referred us to one in another
state who did phone consultations!
Of course, that was of limited value. In retrospect,
I still think that situation was unsalvageable. But
we sure learned a lot about multi-dog interactions,
dog aggression and managing less severe fighting
situations.
It was months before hearing a dog growl
didn't make my heartbeat race.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:32:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Introducing New Dog to Household Cats
>> >but I'm inclined to believe that the "Wits' End Dog Training
>> >Manual" did have something to do with it, too. :-)
>> which exercises did you find most helpful?
> You know, what I found as most helpful were the magic
> words "Good boy, Clyde" and "Good girl, Bonnie". The
> dogs do ANYTHING if I just utter these words. I suspect
> that they are secretly reading Jerry's posts to rpdb. <g>
>
>> >for me, it was the best thing that I could wish for - no
>> >violence at all,
>
>> i've been playing at training my own dogs since i was 3-4
>> years old (probably longer, but my memory has its limits).
>> in any event, it was long before i'd ever heard of Mr. Howe.
>> somehow, without the benefit of Mr. Howe's "superior" methods,
>> i managed not to treat any of my dogs violently.
>
>> > very easy to apply, and best of all, always gives
>> > wonderful results.
>> that's untrue. one of his favorite methods (using a shake can
>> as positive punishment) does not work with either of my dogs.
>> one ignores it (he's not bothered by loud, sudden noises) and
>> the other loses all control of her bowels and bladder when
>> startled by sudden noises/movement. so, like most training
>> tools, the shake can may vary from benignly ineffective to
>> downright abusive, depending on the situation.
> This is nothing at all like what Jerry says. Really,
> shelly, why not READ the manual?
I've read the thing (I refuse to call it a manual), and I can tell
you, based on experience with high prey breeds, that "good boy" and
"good girl" are not particularly useful when redirecting high prey
drive.
Mustang Sally
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
diannes
>Lucy afar said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>>> Well hey. Get back to us when you have a dog that isn't
>>> perfect, mmkay?
>>
>> I already HAD such a puppy: he used to bite, he used to
>> annoy my older dog, he used to make holes in blankets and
>> dig like mad right in the middle of the sofa. He managed to
>> chew to pieces a USB cable from the digital camera, a
>> cellular phone and several history books. Thanks to him I
>> even had the opportunity to look at the inside of a
>> computer diskette. He had some other ideas of "home
>> improvement" that I couldn't agree with - like moving the
>> content of the garbage bin on the living-room carpet.
>
> In other words, he was acting like a puppy, albeit a poorly
> supervised puppy.
*THAT'S* her idea of a problem dog? ROTFLMAO!
Dianne
It's Only Alimentary, Dear Watson
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 19 Jul 2005 01:25:53 -0700, lucy...@claque.net wrote:
>
> >diddy wrote:
> >> in thread news:1121713946.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> >> lucy...@claque.net whittled the following words:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys.
> >> > Use any sound you can produce from different directions.
Or ANY brief variably alternating NON PHYSICAL distraction.
> >> > Use your imagination,
Ooops!
> >> > for a change.
HOWER DOG LOVERS DON'T WANT CHANGE, on accHOWENT
of THAT would PROVE EVERY THING THEY BELIEVED IS
DEAD WRONG <{); ~ ) >
> >> > And don't forget to praise the dog,
HOWER DOG LOVERS CAN'T DO THAT if their dog
is DISRESPECTING their AUTHORITY <{); ~ ) >
> >> > each time that you produce the sound.
HOWER DOG LOVERS PREFER TO HURT INTIMIDATE CHOKE
SHOCK BEAT CRATE AVOID and MURDER their dogs
RATHER THAN PRAISING their BAD BEHAVIORS on
accHOWENT of THAT would REWARD their fearful
for DISRESPECTING their AUTHORITY <{); ~ ) >
> >> For heavens sakes. Keys would be like beating the dog.
Of curse.
Dogs FEAR S-HOWENDS on accHOWENT of THEY'VE BEEN ABUSED.
> >> If i start beating the dog, then praise it,
> >> would that make them LIKE being beaten?
PROBABLY SO. Kinda JUST LIKE HOWE you LOVED your
abusive parents for beatin RESPECT into you.
> >> You have limited sense of what a sound sensitive dog is.
Yeah. A S-HOWEND SENSITIVE DOG IS A VICTIM OF ABUSE.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> > Do your sound sensitive dogs live in acoustically isolated
> > environments? Do they spend their lives in absolute silence?
> > Do these unfortunate dogs ever bark? Do they scratch? The
> > mere sound of it must make them shake in terror. What about
> > the sound of their teeth crushing their dry food? Is that
> > not traumatic to them?
>
> Lucy, Lucy, Lucy.
racetrack silly, racetrack silly racetrack silly!
> I promised myself I wouldn't respond to your posts,
Yeah, but you CAN'T CON-TROLL yourself on accHOWENT
of you'll DO and SAY ANY THING to DEFEND your alleged
RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER your own DEAD DOGS.
> because I really don't need any more aggravation right now,
Close to the breakin point, racetrack silly?
Most of you dog abusing punk thug coward mental
cases oughtta be goin INSANE what with all this
JERRY STUFF again, eh racetrack silly, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> but I can't resist.
PERHAPS you should increase orchange your meds, eh
racetrack silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> Feel free to talk about how to handle dog
> problems you have personally dealt with.
Lucy DONE THAT... withHOWET MURDERING HER OWN
DEAD DOGS like HOWE you and tara o. aka tee
and kwbrown done.
> However, if you've never had a dog with shyness,
> spookiness, noise, or other issues, you shouldn't
> tell people how to handle them.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!
> I have a dog that I don't believe is genetically shy,
THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING, racetrack silly.
> like my spooky Greyhounds are,
Your dogs are SPOOKY on accHOWENT of YOU ABUSE THEM.
> but her upbringing was such that she was afraid of
> virtually everything when I got her just over 5
> years ago at about 1 1/2 years old.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
HOWE COME she WASN'T SCARED of EVERY THING when
she was livin on the racetrack, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> She lived with 27 other dogs - - Borzoi, big dogs - -
> in a townhouse with a woman and her dog and wife-beating
> husband.
Oh? So she wasn't off the racetrack... silly The
Amazing Puppy Wizard, ain't HE, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> She was on the bottom of the pecking order
That's sheer IDIOCY.
> and was covered in feces and urine when rescued,
"RESCUED"???
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
> and it took months for the stains and bleaching to grow
> out of her coat and nails. None of the dogs was neutered,
Good. Surgical sexual mutilation MAKES DOGS FEAR AGGRESSIVE.
> and they bred at will.
S-HOWENDS LIKE FUN, not ABUSE, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> At some point the people stopped doing anything
> for/with the dogs,
You mean they stopped jerkin and choking them?
> and many of the younger dogs had never been outside.
NO PROLEMO. You can rehabilitate kennelosis in a
couple days using your FREE COPY of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual <{); ~ ) >
> Think about that:
YEAH, THINK ABHOWET THAT, racetrack silly, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
> *never been outside*.
Oh? You mean he got NO FEARS from BAD EXXXPOSURES
to being HOWEtside, a veritable CLEAN SLATE, a
BLANK PAGE, eh racetrack silly racetrack silly,
racetrack silly?
> When we got her, Trissa was frightened of wind, traffic
> noise, trains, leaves blowing, nighttime, men, women...
Oh...
> Now, she's infinitely better.
You mean your "SPOOKY" dog is MUCH BETTER after five years
of you jerking choking and locking IT in a box and sprayin
aversives in her face.
> She warms up to most strangers who come
> to the house pretty quickly, even kids.
"MOST," hunh?
> For at least the first two years, she was so
> spooky that I couldn't raise my voice to her -
Naaah? DO TELL?
> - she'd pee and poop, sort of like a startled buzzard -
You mean she'd shit an piss herself when you INTIMIDATED IT,
racetrack silly racetrack silly, racetrack silly <{): ~ ) >
> - so I had to use very, very mild sound distractions,
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> like a hiss or "psst", or a visual distraction like waving.
ADIOS, racetrack silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly.
> Now, at about 6 1/2, she's showing what her real
> personality is - - she's a Borzoi Brat.
That so?
> If I'm letting everybody out and she doesn't feel like
> getting up, she looks me straight in the face and ignores
> me (I feel like she's flipping me off).
DUH?
> I can almost yell "no"
That so?
> and she looks at me like "I know you're not talking to me".
Naaah. You'd NEVER yell at her on accHOWENT of
she'd shit an piss herself. REMEMBER, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> Sighthounds aren't usually barky,
That so? Couldn't tell by LISTENING to them barkin
constantly at the kennels, could you?
> but she does bark occasionally,
Naah?
> usually when pouncing at another dog in a somewhat
> dysfunctional invitation to play. Oddly enough,
> the sound of chewing her own food doesn't seem to
> bother her a bit.
IMAGINE? PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENT Of you
got to LOCK IT IN A BOX to FEED your dogs or
they'll ATTACK each other in a dysfunctional
game of SELF DEFENSE?
> But an unexpected noise, whether it's caused by her
> accidentally knocking something over while snooping
> around, or by someone or something else, still makes
> her jump a foot.
Well then, after FIVE YEARS of WORKIN at it you AIN'T
DONE SO GOOD, have you, racetrack silly, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> A shake can would probably give her a heart attack.
Yeah, on accHOWENT of ALL SHE KNOWS IS ABUSE from you.
> My point is that, in spite of what your idol tells
> you, All Dogs Are Not Alike, and One Training Size
> Does Not Fit All.
Well then, HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Students REPORT CURING
FEAR OF THUNDER and SEPARATION ANXXXIHOWESNESS in ten
and twelve year old PROBLEM DOSS IN WON DAY, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> Here's where Jerry posts that my dog's bone
> cancer was caused by mishandling.
INDEEDY. Cancers are STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >
> Killfiles, especially when set to automatically
> delete, are such wonderful things.
That so, racetrack silly? HOWE COME you KNOW The
Rocky
> I can tell from all your pictures that your dogs are
> absolutely miserable.
I took this picture just now. I'm exhausted after the full
morning of abuse it took to get Friday to relax.
http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/abused.jpg
> I'll bet you get a lot of business
> because other people want experienced abusers to help them
> to abuse their dogs, too.
Yup. And it's amazing how their tails wag when they come back
the next day. Dogs must be masochists.
As an aside, does anyone know what this food is? My guess is
Purina Beneful.
http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/whatsthisfood.jpg
Sionnach
"Tee" wrote:
> Just as an FYI I have enough how-to material to make an informed decision
> about attempting the use of an e-collar and I plan to attempt more than
just
> correcting the marking problem with it. If I see an abnormal reaction to
> the e-collar than I won't use it, period.
Not to mention that in this case, there's a very good reason for using it
IF he reacts appropriately (e.g. isn't freaked out by it, and it doesn't
cause reactions to Fancy): the fact that it will alleviate Fancy's confusion
over who's being corrected.
Among the many concepts Lucy apparently doesn't grasp is the necessity for
clarity when working with an issue that involves two dogs in the same
household.
It's Only Alimentary, Dear Watson
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 19 Jul 2005 01:25:53 -0700, lucy...@claque.net wrote:
>
> >diddy wrote:
> >> in thread news:1121713946.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> >> lucy...@claque.net whittled the following words:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Oh, for God's sake! Forget the penny can - use your keys.
> >> > Use any sound you can produce from different directions.
Or ANY brief variably alternating NON PHYSICAL distraction.
> >> > Use your imagination,
Ooops!
> >> > for a change.
HOWER DOG LOVERS DON'T WANT CHANGE, on accHOWENT
of THAT would PROVE EVERY THING THEY BELIEVED IS
DEAD WRONG <{); ~ ) >
> >> > And don't forget to praise the dog,
HOWER DOG LOVERS CAN'T DO THAT if their dog
is DISRESPECTING their AUTHORITY <{); ~ ) >
> >> > each time that you produce the sound.
HOWER DOG LOVERS PREFER TO HURT INTIMIDATE CHOKE
SHOCK BEAT CRATE AVOID and MURDER their dogs
RATHER THAN PRAISING their BAD BEHAVIORS on
accHOWENT of THAT would REWARD their fearful
for DISRESPECTING their AUTHORITY <{); ~ ) >
> >> For heavens sakes. Keys would be like beating the dog.
Of curse.
Dogs FEAR S-HOWENDS on accHOWENT of THEY'VE BEEN ABUSED.
> >> If i start beating the dog, then praise it,
> >> would that make them LIKE being beaten?
PROBABLY SO. Kinda JUST LIKE HOWE you LOVED your
abusive parents for beatin RESPECT into you.
> >> You have limited sense of what a sound sensitive dog is.
Yeah. A S-HOWEND SENSITIVE DOG IS A VICTIM OF ABUSE.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> > Do your sound sensitive dogs live in acoustically isolated
> > environments? Do they spend their lives in absolute silence?
> > Do these unfortunate dogs ever bark? Do they scratch? The
> > mere sound of it must make them shake in terror. What about
> > the sound of their teeth crushing their dry food? Is that
> > not traumatic to them?
>
> Lucy, Lucy, Lucy.
racetrack silly, racetrack silly racetrack silly!
> I promised myself I wouldn't respond to your posts,
Yeah, but you CAN'T CON-TROLL yourself on accHOWENT
of you'll DO and SAY ANY THING to DEFEND your alleged
RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER your own DEAD DOGS.
> because I really don't need any more aggravation right now,
Close to the breakin point, racetrack silly?
Most of you dog abusing punk thug coward mental
cases oughtta be goin INSANE what with all this
JERRY STUFF again, eh racetrack silly, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> but I can't resist.
PERHAPS you should increase orchange your meds, eh
racetrack silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> Feel free to talk about how to handle dog
> problems you have personally dealt with.
Lucy DONE THAT... withHOWET MURDERING HER OWN
DEAD DOGS like HOWE you and tara o. aka tee
and kwbrown done.
> However, if you've never had a dog with shyness,
> spookiness, noise, or other issues, you shouldn't
> tell people how to handle them.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!
> I have a dog that I don't believe is genetically shy,
THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING, racetrack silly.
> like my spooky Greyhounds are,
Your dogs are SPOOKY on accHOWENT of YOU ABUSE THEM.
> but her upbringing was such that she was afraid of
> virtually everything when I got her just over 5
> years ago at about 1 1/2 years old.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
HOWE COME she WASN'T SCARED of EVERY THING when
she was livin on the racetrack, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> She lived with 27 other dogs - - Borzoi, big dogs - -
> in a townhouse with a woman and her dog and wife-beating
> husband.
Oh? So she wasn't off the racetrack... silly The
Amazing Puppy Wizard, ain't HE, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> She was on the bottom of the pecking order
That's sheer IDIOCY.
> and was covered in feces and urine when rescued,
"RESCUED"???
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
> and it took months for the stains and bleaching to grow
> out of her coat and nails. None of the dogs was neutered,
Good. Surgical sexual mutilation MAKES DOGS FEAR AGGRESSIVE.
> and they bred at will.
S-HOWENDS LIKE FUN, not ABUSE, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> At some point the people stopped doing anything for/with the dogs,
You mean they stopped jerkin and choking them?
> and many of the younger dogs had never been outside.
NO PROLEMO. You can rehabilitate kennelosis in a
couple days using your FREE COPY of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual <{); ~ ) >
> Think about that:
YEAH, THINK ABHOWET THAT, racetrack silly, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
> *never been outside*.
Oh? You mean he got NO FEARS from BAD EXXXPOSURES
to being HOWEtside, a veritable CLEAN SLATE, a
BLANK PAGE, eh racetrack silly racetrack silly,
racetrack silly?
> When we got her, Trissa was frightened of wind, traffic
> noise, trains, leaves blowing, nighttime, men, women...
Oh...
> Now, she's infinitely better.
You mean your "SPOOKY" dog is MUCH BETTER after five years
of you jerking choking and locking IT in a box and sprayin
aversives in her face.
> She warms up to most strangers who come
> to the house pretty quickly, even kids.
"MOST," hunh?
> For at least the first two years, she was so
> spooky that I couldn't raise my voice to her -
Naaah? DO TELL?
> - she'd pee and poop, sort of like a startled buzzard -
You mean she'd shit an piss herself when you INTIMIDATED IT,
racetrack silly racetrack silly, racetrack silly <{): ~ ) >
> - so I had to use very, very mild sound distractions,
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
> like a hiss or "psst", or a visual distraction like waving.
ADIOS, racetrack silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly.
> Now, at about 6 1/2, she's showing what her real
> personality is - - she's a Borzoi Brat.
That so?
> If I'm letting everybody out and she doesn't feel like
> getting up, she looks me straight in the face and ignores
> me (I feel like she's flipping me off).
DUH?
> I can almost yell "no"
That so?
> and she looks at me like "I know you're not talking to me".
Naaah. You'd NEVER yell at her on accHOWENT of she'd
shit an piss herself. REMEMBER, racetrack silly,
racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> Sighthounds aren't usually barky,
That so? Couldn't tell by LISTENING to them barkin
constantly at the kennels, could you?
> but she does bark occasionally,
Naah?
> usually when pouncing at another dog in a somewhat
> dysfunctional invitation to play. Oddly enough,
> the sound of chewing her own food doesn't seem to
> bother her a bit.
IMAGINE? PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENT Of you
got to LOCK IT IN A BOX to FEED your dogs or
they'll ATTACK each other in a dysfunctional
game of SELF DEFENSE?
> But an unexpected noise, whether it's caused by her
> accidentally knocking something over while snooping
> around, or by someone or something else, still makes
> her jump a foot.
Well then, after FIVE YEARS of WORKIN at it you AIN'T
DONE SO GOOD, have you, racetrack silly, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> A shake can would probably give her a heart attack.
Yeah, on accHOWENT of ALL SHE KNOWS IS ABUSE from you.
> My point is that, in spite of what your idol tells
> you, All Dogs Are Not Alike, and One Training Size
> Does Not Fit All.
Well then, HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Students REPORT CURING
FEAR OF THUNDER and SEPARATION ANXXXIHOWESNESS in ten
and twelve year old PROBLEM DOSS IN WON DAY, racetrack
silly, racetrack silly, racetrack silly?
> Here's where Jerry posts that my dog's bone
> cancer was caused by mishandling.
INDEEDY. Cancers are STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >
> Killfiles, especially when set to automatically
> delete, are such wonderful things.
That so, racetrack silly? HOWE COME you KNOW The
Paula
>Paula said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>> I can tell from all your pictures that your dogs are
>> absolutely miserable.
>
>I took this picture just now. I'm exhausted after the full
>morning of abuse it took to get Friday to relax.
>
>http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/abused.jpg
YOU KILLED HIM!!!!
>
>> I'll bet you get a lot of business
>> because other people want experienced abusers to help them
>> to abuse their dogs, too.
>
>Yup. And it's amazing how their tails wag when they come back
>the next day. Dogs must be masochists.
>
>As an aside, does anyone know what this food is? My guess is
>Purina Beneful.
>
>http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/whatsthisfood.jpg
I would guess the same, though I've only seen Beneful in the pictures
on the packages and not in real life. I can't think of any other that
colorful, though. Hivemindy. My daughter was just asking me
yesterday if Beneful was a good dog food.
Rocky
> I would guess the same, though I've only seen Beneful in
> the pictures on the packages and not in real life. I can't
> think of any other that colorful, though.
It's a little less colourful in real life - the stainless steel
bowl augmented the hue.
> Hivemindy. My
> daughter was just asking me yesterday if Beneful was a good
> dog food.
And? What did you say? I hope it wasn't "Shut up and finish
your Froot Loops, Mimi."
Christy
<lucy...@claque.net> wrote in message
news:1121764298.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I already HAD such a puppy: he used to bite, he used to annoy my older
> dog, he used to make holes in blankets and dig like mad right in the
> middle of the sofa. He managed to chew to pieces a USB cable from the
> digital camera, a cellular phone and several history books. Thanks to
> him I even had the opportunity to look at the inside of a computer
> diskette. He had some other ideas of "home improvement" that I couldn't
> agree with - like moving the content of the garbage bin on the
> living-room carpet. It's the same puppy that is now my perfect dog that
> has caused your "friendly" remark.
That's a normal puppy. I'm talking about a dog with issues, not a normal
puppy.
What bothers you all is
> the PRAISE.
I praise my dog all the time. Just not bad behavior, because that's just
dumb.
> Is praising a dog for bad behavior more inappropriate than a choke
> collar, a prong collar or an e-collar, especially IN THE HANDS OF THE
> AVERAGE DOG OWNER, as most of the posters here are?
Its just dumb, is all.
Despite all the
> dangers inherent to the INAPPROPRIATE use of these tools - even if the
> fact that you have to hurt your dog (be it only momentarily and with a
> limited amount of pain inflicted) is acceptable to you in order to make
> him behave? Or is it preferable to have to live with his behavior
> problems, despite all the "training" you subject him to?
Huh? I haven't had to hurt my dogs to make them behave, silly. And I didn't
have to do anything dumb, either. Yeah, yeah, my youngest stole a green
tomato off the vine yesterday, so I grabbed an e-collar and shocked the
daylights out of him. Is that what you wanna hear? Actually, I laughed, and
he gave me the tomato and I gave him a cookie as a reward. Hmmm, was my
laughing the "sound distraction" and the cookie "praise?" Hot diggety, I'm
Jar Jar!!
Christy
Janet B
their heels and said:
>
>http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/whatsthisfood.jpg
yup - Beneful:
http://beneful.com/products/original.aspx
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
shelly
>http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/abused.jpg
awww!
>As an aside, does anyone know what this food is? My guess is
>Purina Beneful.
>
>http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/whatsthisfood.jpg
that seems likely.
http://www.beneful.com/products/original.aspx
Christy
<lucy...@claque.net> wrote in message
news:1121768271.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Simple: you DON'T use SOUND as a PUNISHMENT; you use PRAISE as a
> PUNISHMENT. The sound is only a DISTRACTION. You can use lots of OTHER
> things as distraction. But you always punish with PRAISE.
OK. Lets say I buy this theory. When my dog is misbehaving, I lay down the
whips and cattle prod, and clap my hands. Then, I tell him he's a good boy,
which punishes him and lets him know he was a bad boy and he has misbehaved,
and he never repeats that mistake again.
Flash forward to the weekend. We run a perfect run in agility in record
time, and as we cross the finish line, I clap my hands and tell him he's a
good boy....
Christy
shelly
>On 19 Jul 2005 17:22:34 GMT, Rocky <2d...@rocky-dog.com>, clicked
>their heels and said:
>
>>
>>http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/whatsthisfood.jpg
>
>yup - Beneful:
>
>http://beneful.com/products/original.aspx
damn! a mere five seconds.
Janet B
>As an aside, does anyone know what this food is? My guess is
>Purina Beneful.
>
>http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/whatsthisfood.jpg
On second look, it looks more like the diet food:
http://beneful.com/products/healthyweight.aspx
lucy...@claque.net
> Robin Nuttall <rob...@mchsi.com> wrote in news:oD6De.164649$x96.58211
> @attbi_s72:
>
> > lucy...@claque.net wrote:
> >> shelly wrote:
>
> >> Simple: you DON'T use SOUND as a PUNISHMENT; you use PRAISE as a
> >> PUNISHMENT. The sound is only a DISTRACTION. You can use lots of OTHER
> >> things as distraction. But you always punish with PRAISE.
> >>
> >> Lucy
> >>
> > Ooo! New sig file, new sig file--who wants to claim it?
> >
> > So....Lucy. If all praise is punishment, then is all punishment praise?
> > If you are beating the dog, is that then a good thing?
>
> Heh.
>
> But who knows what the heck "Lucy" is really talking about?
>
> I know that I don't.
But you're trying, which is commendable in itself.
> Besides, I DON'T THINK SHE UNDERSTANDS BEHAVIORAL TERMINOLOGY.
>
> And until she shows us that she does, it's pretty much impossible to
> discuss canine behavior with her.
>
> The phrase "punish with praise" alone makes my head hurt.
You're now just like Jupiter when Minerva was about to be born out of
his head: it probably explains the very human reaction to new ideas.
Lucy
Rocky
> yup - Beneful:
What would you do? Tell the client that the food was "not the
best"? Or leave it be? This is a puppy who's going to be a
very large boy.
As a data point, this dog doesn't need encouragement to eat.
lucy...@claque.net
Do you think that praising Joe Joe would harm Fancy?
Lucy
Tee
news:3k4rd1F...@individual.net...
Yep and this is yet another reason why verbal praise when he's trying to
mark Fancy could cause serious problems. What exactly is Fancy going to
think if rather than issuing a Joe Joe NO *at the time he is leg-lifting* I
instead begin praising him? I'm sure she'd love that, assuming she
understood it but then she tends to understand verbal praise and correction
pretty clearly.
The dogs got into another fight last night this time at the food station. I
don't know who started it because the table blocked my view. I was in the
kitchen talking to Scott, not looking in the dogs' direction. My shouting
"Heyyyyyyyy!!!" while advancing around the table with Scott stomping on the
floor as he jumped up caused them to break. It seems Joe Joe broke first
but I can't be sure, he may have just been closest to the escape route as he
bolted to his crate while Fancy paced in place.
This could be the start of that theory I had where Joe Joe is trying to
eliminate Fancy completely. Dominating the food/feeding may be an extension
of urinating on her. It may also be that Fancy is at her breaking point and
either deciding to take a stand or just snapping out of impatience. There
was an airsnap from Joe Joe the first day he was here and it was while we
were eating. I chalked it up to nerves and I still believe that's what it
is. There have been *no* snappy/snarky/bitchy or otherwise aggressive
incidents, not even the occasional "back off" that I expect out of Fancy.
However, there have now been two serious incidents in less than a week.
I started using the e-collar to reinforce some known commands and introduce
a "break" since Joe Joe doesn't have a good stay. I had hoped to work on a
good recall followed by a heel as I know its a very common thing to teach
with the e-collar and isn't flat-out correction. I have not used the
e-collar for *any* correction at all, only on level 1 using the avoidance
method for reinforcing sit & down. He responded pretty well and never
vocalized, jerked or seemed confused. He did tire of it quickly, about 10
minutes and 15-20 reps after we started so we ended with a successful
down/break and lots of praise and treats.
I explain this so that no one thinks I've managed to create any negative
associations with the e-collar and we've only had two training sessions,
neither of which were on the same day as the fights so I don't think it was
stress from that. I've been going outside with the dogs and supervising
half the time and the other half I've been letting them out individually so
there's no opportunity for marking. Maybe its this constant supervision
and/or musical dog outings that is upsetting the balance. Maybe its just
escalating and what I thought was the big problem before was a precursor &
symptom of a bigger problem to come. Its sure as hell confusing.
--
Tara
Janet B
their heels and said:
>
>What would you do? Tell the client that the food was "not the
>best"? Or leave it be? This is a puppy who's going to be a
>very large boy.
>
>As a data point, this dog doesn't need encouragement to eat.
I would collect some pamphlets from your favorite decent dog foods and
give them to the client, explaining that especially for big dogs
(appeal to that "pride" that seems to exist), there are foods that
will be much better for him.
Look at the shapes on that Purina site - it really does look like the
low calorie, yes?
ceb
news:Fri969873793E0F4au...@rocky-dog.com:
> http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/abused.jpg
>
I notice that you have carefully avoided capturing the woeful look on his
face.
--
Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Rosalie the calico
shelly
>What would you do? Tell the client that the food was "not the
>best"? Or leave it be? This is a puppy who's going to be a
>very large boy.
i'd say something. i'd probably start with the fact that
Beneful has an awful lot of salt and sugar in it, in addition
to dyes. after that, they'll hopefully be receptive to some
better alternatives.
>As a data point, this dog doesn't need encouragement to eat.
even more reason to get him on a good food. my personal
feeling is that foods like Beneful have a *lot* of empty
calories (not entirely unlike Froot Loops). such foods tend
IME to increase appetite instead of sating it.
Janet B
clicked their heels and said:
>
>I notice that you have carefully avoided capturing the woeful look on his
>face.
Face? where's his face? ;-D
This is Franklin's favorite sleeping position as well. Damn - Friday
is one adorable dog.
Rocky
> On second look, it looks more like the diet food:
I think that's it. Poking through the food, though, I can't
find a single "Moist, chewy chunk".
More fiber and less fat seems to be the main difference between
"Healthy Weight" and "Original".
Rocky
>> http://www.rocky-dog.com/Misc/abused.jpg
> I notice that you have carefully avoided capturing the
> woeful look on his face.
I hope you also noticed that he carefully arranged his tail so
that I wouldn't photograph his naughty bits.
Melinda Shore
Rocky <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>What would you do? Tell the client that the food was "not the
>best"? Or leave it be? This is a puppy who's going to be a
>very large boy.
I'd ask them if they're interested in talking about dog food
or some such. Or mention the nutritional needs of
mega-puppies. Basically, open the issue and see if they're
receptive.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Average real weekly wages are lower today than they
were at the end of the 2001 recession.
Marcel Beaudoin
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> I can't speak for Jerry, but the way *I* understand the method is that
> all the dogs react to PRAISE in the same way, not that there are no
> individual variations in how the dogs react to sound.
That is where you are wrong. There are dogs out there (thankfully, Moogli
is not one) who couldn't give a rat's ass about whether you are praising
them or not.
--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
Rocky
> I'd ask them if they're interested in talking about dog food
> or some such. Or mention the nutritional needs of
> mega-puppies. Basically, open the issue and see if they're
> receptive.
After a bit of thought, I'll be up front. The owner is an EMT,
so knows health.
I think that I'll just tell her that she's feeding her puppy
crappy food. After I've been paid for the day, of course.