WTB: Dog for home security
GeneS
be the best choice to purchase, and where to find the dog.
We live near Austin, Texas.
Things to consider:
1. The dog will be around children from 1 to 12 years old.
2. The location is a VERY rural area, on a 25 acre completely
fenced homesite.
3. The dog should bark & cause any intruder to pause. The dog
should never attack anyone - just an aggressive nature.
4. There are coyotes that come up to eat a cat from time to time.
5. It would be best if the dog would stay around the house most
of the time, and not take hikes into the woods.
6. Not sure if it is better to buy a puppy, or an older dog that has
been trained.
7. If dogs are "smart", them we want a smart one. Not sure how
one determines intelligence.
THANKS,
Gene ---> ge...@thegateway.net
Gwen Watson
GeneS wrote:
> I would like to get your opinions about which dog would
> be the best choice to purchase, and where to find the dog.
> We live near Austin, Texas.
>
Town Lake Animal Shelter could be a good choice for you.
Also Triple Crown Dog Academy has a program going on
with several of the rescues groups. In which they
train dogs in obedience as well as some in Agility
and other things so they are more bidable to a new home.
http://www.triplecrowndogs.com/
I live in Austin too. Well actually Spicewood
but I work in Austin for UT.
> Things to consider:
> 1. The dog will be around children from 1 to 12 years old.
> 2. The location is a VERY rural area, on a 25 acre completely
> fenced homesite.
That doesn't sound like Austin. Hutto, Spicewood, Bastrop,
Elgin, Buda, Kyle.
> 3. The dog should bark & cause any intruder to pause. The dog
> should never attack anyone - just an aggressive nature.
You can't have one and expect not to have the possibility
for the other to occur.
> 4. There are coyotes that come up to eat a cat from time to time.
Are you living near Balconies? Or somewhere around Mesa Rd? I didn't
know anyone had that much property anymore around there.
> 5. It would be best if the dog would stay around the house most
> of the time, and not take hikes into the woods.
If you don't have a fenced in area it is best for you
to install a brinks system. Dogs should be family members
not alarm systems.
> 6. Not sure if it is better to buy a puppy, or an older dog that has
> been trained.
> 7. If dogs are "smart", them we want a smart one. Not sure how
> one determines intelligence.
>
> THANKS,
> Gene ---> ge...@thegateway.net
It doesn't sound like you know enough about dogs to consider
one. It may be best for you to consider one of the security
system options instead.
Gwen
>
>
>
Leah
>1. The dog will be around children from 1 to 12 years old.
An older dog who is already well-socialized around children. Puppies are
hell-on-wheels, and usually too much work for homes with infants and toddlers.
(And they *can't* be left outside for any period of time unsupervised.)
>3. The dog should bark & cause any intruder to pause. The dog
>should never attack anyone - just an aggressive nature.
Well, you can't have a dog with an aggressive nature who won't bite. Almost
any dog will bark at an intruder. If you want one who threatens the intruder
but can be reliably depended on not to do physical harm, then you need to take
the dog into very intensive training. Lotsa time, lotsa bucks.
>4. There are coyotes that come up to eat a cat from time to time.
A pack of coyotes can kill any dog.
>5. It would be best if the dog would stay around the house most
>of the time, and not take hikes into the woods.
He needs to live in the house. He can be outside as much as he wants, but his
den must be inside. That's your best bet at getting a dog who wants to stick
around. Even when he is outside, he needs a human to do things with him out
there often.
If he's bored, he will wander off. And bark at everything. And chew. And
dig. Maybe jump the fence.
>6. Not sure if it is better to buy a puppy, or an older dog that has
>been trained.
If your intention is to stick a dog outside and let him "do his job," then
you'd be much better off with a home alarm system.
>7. If dogs are "smart", them we want a smart one. Not sure how
>one determines intelligence.
The smarter the dog, the more of a challenge it will be for you to keep him
entertained.
---
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
It's A Dog's Life
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
Get Healthy, Build Your Immune System, Lose Weight
http://www.re-vita.net/dfrntdrums
GeneS
an intruder & immediately protect your property & children -
let me know. The cats would be thrilled to learn that coyotes
will be detected by an alarm - and not attacked by a dog:-)
Gene
"Gwen Watson" <gw...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:cnd94d$b7$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
Gwen Watson
GeneS wrote:
> LOL - when you find a security system that will prevent
> an intruder & immediately protect your property & children -
> let me know. The cats would be thrilled to learn that coyotes
> will be detected by an alarm - and not attacked by a dog:-)
>
> Gene
LOL, you leave your children unattended at home? In Austin?
BTW coyotes will make lunch meat out
of very large dogs, so if
you think that obtaining a dog for this purpose
is going to help, I believe you are in for
a surprise. Lots of dogs have been killed
recently in Balconies area of Austin.
I can assure you if you fill out any adoption form
at any shelter or rescue here in Austin making
statements as you have on this NG you will most
certainly be declined adoption of a dog or
puppy.
Why haven't you posted on austin.forsale?
Gwen
ZPL
IMO, your best bet is one of the mastiff or Livestock Guardian breeds. But,
some can be VERY stubborn. If you do not have much experience with dogs,
you may want to go with one of the more docile mastiffs. This is the type
of work they were bred to do. They also tend to stick closer to the house
than the herding dogs and especially the hounds.
Due to the heat, I would not suggest some of the hairier ones - the Tibetan
or the Spanish. I would also not suggest some of the hairier Livestock
Guardian dogs such as the Great Pyr or the CAO/CO. Anatolians should be OK
in the heat.
I grew up in the area, and know of the coyote problems. I would suggest
more than one of these dogs, as coyotes work in packs.
Although the older dogs can bond with new owners, you may run into a problem
with some of these big guardian dogs coming in as adults. It can be easier
to start with a pup. But, they will not be ready for any guarding until
they are a year or more. How about an older one and a pup?
Here is a message board that covers Molossers - mastiffs, bulldogs, and LSG
breeds. LOTS of help from people that work and live with these types of
dogs.
http://members.boardhost.com/MolosserTalk/
Here is a very good site, that gives alot of CORRECT info in these breeds as
well. Look under a header BREEDS.
www.moloss.com
"GeneS" <ge...@thegateway.net> wrote in message
news:8opmd.4817$Pd2.1...@monger.newsread.com...
Leah
>IMO, your best bet is one of the mastiff or Livestock Guardian breeds.
Yes, if they had something to actively guard out there. But if his intention
is to shut them in the yard and leave them alone, which is my first impression
of the OP, they will be bored. And bored dogs can have major behavior
problems.
They will also be unsocialized. And unsocialized dogs are a loaded gun with
the safety off and a twitchy thumb.
Gwen Watson
Leah wrote:
> They will also be unsocialized. And unsocialized dogs are a loaded gun with
> the safety off and a twitchy thumb.
>
> ---
> Canine Action Dog Trainer
Absolutely. Especially considering one of the
requirements was a dog getting along with
kids ranging from the age of
1 year - 12 years.
And then there is the whole, unfenced 25 acres
with coyotes.
And I am very experienced with this area of
Texas, having lived here permanently for
over 9 years and have been coming here
regular since 1971.
Unfenced dogs will get shot by persons
with livestock. That's pretty much
a given. And dogs without attention
and a job will most certainly go after
livestock just for grins.
Gwen
Cate
@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu:
> And then there is the whole, unfenced 25 acres
> with coyotes.
He actually said the area is fenced.
Cate
Cate
@monger.newsread.com:
> 3. The dog should bark & cause any intruder to pause. The dog
> should never attack anyone - just an aggressive nature.
Alert barking does not indicate an aggressive nature. (In fact, many truly
aggressive dogs are silent before attacking.) Even most Labs will bark to
alert you to intruders.
A parent asking around for an agressive dog is just a heap of trouble.
You're likely to end up with a dead dog, an injured child, or worse.
If you want a dog to be a family member that lives inside the house and
protects its territory by alert barking, consider a shelter dog or a rescue
dog with a known history of alert barking.
If you want a dog that'll be relegated to a life alone outside, protect you
by alert barking, be good with the kids, be coyote-proof, not wander off,
and be smart, consider an the rare Japanese Aibo.
Cate
Gwen Watson
Cate wrote:
rare Japanese Aibo.
>
> Cate
>
Cate,
Could you please provide me with a photo?
I would be most interested. :)
Gwen
Gwen Watson
Cate wrote:
Thanks Cate,
I missed that.
Gwen
GeneS
>
>
> GeneS wrote:
>
> > LOL - when you find a security system that will prevent
> > an intruder & immediately protect your property & children -
> > let me know. The cats would be thrilled to learn that coyotes
> > will be detected by an alarm - and not attacked by a dog:-)
> >
> > Gene
>
>
> LOL, you leave your children unattended at home? In Austin?
Unattended children? NOT. Where did you get that?
>
> BTW coyotes will make lunch meat out
> of very large dogs, so if
> you think that obtaining a dog for this purpose
> is going to help, I believe you are in for
> a surprise. Lots of dogs have been killed
> recently in Balconies area of Austin.
I have lived in ranch country a long time ( Lampasas area)
and have NEVER heard of coyotes killing a dog - but
anything is possible in The People's Republic of Austin:-)
>
> I can assure you if you fill out any adoption form
> at any shelter or rescue here in Austin making
> statements as you have on this NG you will most
> certainly be declined adoption of a dog or
> puppy.
We do not want to adopt a dog, we want to buy
a registered one with known breeding.
>
> Why haven't you posted on austin.forsale?
Duh - it was there first - geesh ...
>
> Gwen
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gwen Watson
GeneS wrote:
>
> We do not want to adopt a dog, we want to buy
> a registered one with known breeding.
From your very 1st post this am list
number 6:
>
> GeneS wrote:
>> 6. Not sure if it is better to buy a puppy, or an older dog that has
>> been trained.
>>
>> THANKS,
>> Gene ---> ge...@thegateway.net
This does not at all indicate a person wanting a registered
dog from a known breeding.
It's beginning to look a lot like "Christmas".................
lalalala, with puppies under the tree and bows
and ribbons too.....................
Gwen
AndreaS
> be the best choice to purchase, and where to find the dog.
> We live near Austin, Texas.
>
> Things to consider:
> 1. The dog will be around children from 1 to 12 years old.
> 2. The location is a VERY rural area, on a 25 acre completely
> fenced homesite.
> 3. The dog should bark & cause any intruder to pause. The dog
> should never attack anyone - just an aggressive nature.
Given #1, I would not recommend it have an "aggressive nature". Aggressive
dogs are apt to bite or react aggressively to tense or strange situations.
What you want is a dog with a big bark that /looks/ scarey but will accept
strangers easily. Kids have friends that come over and sometimes do stupid
things with regards to dogs. You don't want to worry about having a dog with
an "aggressive nature" in that situation.
> 4. There are coyotes that come up to eat a cat from time to time.
I recommend bringing the dog in before dusk. And one that is bigger than a
coyote.
> 5. It would be best if the dog would stay around the house most
> of the time, and not take hikes into the woods.
If you want the dog to stay around the house, you should fence the area in
which you'd like him to stay. I have a dog door, so my dogs are mostly in
the house, but they can go outside when they want to. Do you work at home?
How much time in your day can you dedicate to your dog? If you are out much
of the day, your dog will probably get bored and go on walk about if he can.
> 6. Not sure if it is better to buy a puppy, or an older dog that has
> been trained.
Depends exactly what you want the dog to _do_ and how much time you're
willing to spend with it.
> 7. If dogs are "smart", them we want a smart one. Not sure how
> one determines intelligence.
Why? Often times the more intelligent dogs are more likely to pick up bad
habits and get into trouble. If you're not a dog person, I wouldn't
recommend getting a particularly smart dog. Average is probably about right
for most people.
Frankly, I wouldn't recommend any dog for this. There are dogs that will
alert you to the presence of strangers and that look imposing, but buying a
dog as a "security system" is apt to disappoint. Dogs are social creatures.
You should get a dog because you want a _dog_. If you want a security
system, get motion sensing lights and well, an alarm/security system.
--
-Andrea Stone
Saorsa Basenjis
http://home1.gte.net/res0s12z/
The Trolls Nest - greenmen, goblins & gargoyle wall art
www.trollsnest.com
Charlie Wilkes
wrote:
I'm sorry I can't sell you my dog, because she has all of the
qualities you want.
I think you want some kind of a rottie/pit/shepherd type mix, which is
what I've got.
www.geocities.com/wallofgrays/viscouspuppy
I got her when she was a puppy, and I took the pick of the litter. My
puppy was perfectly symmetrical, the largest of the pups, curious and
bold, not overly affectionate toward handlers or "hyper" in any way,
and not aggressive toward other pups in the litter.
The litter happened when the world's meanest dog mounted a friendly
mutt, both good healthy dogs of about the same size. Poppa got shot
eventually.
My dog was mean and nasty as an adolescent. When she was about 9
months old, I was gone on business and my dog was in the care of
friends, and she ran down to the local post office (near my house) and
accosted a couple of guys and backed them down and caused quite a PR
problem for me.
Soon after that she became easy to train and control. I never raised
my voice or punished her except once -- when she ran off overnight.
She was severely punished by being tied out away from the house, alone
with nothing but a bowl of water for 48 hours. That did it, too.
She's only aggressive toward adult humans, mostly men. Kiddies get a
free pass and usually so do their mothers. Within her circle of
friends, her manners are flawless and she is exceedingly affectionate.
I would say, cruise the shelters and junk litters and when you get the
right dog, treat him with the greatest respect and affection always,
and you'll have a fierce domestic protector who is also a good friend
for your entire family.
Charlie
Cate
@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu:
> Could you please provide me with a photo?
> I would be most interested. :)
Certainly: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-
bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-
Start;sid=U4e9s8FoPKW9_IAA6Gq3uI5mpY6Bj3JLi8U=?CategoryName=AIBO
OR
Guess what? They're now breeding them in black!
Cate
Charlie Wilkes
wrote:
>
>It doesn't sound like you know enough about dogs to consider
>one. It may be best for you to consider one of the security
>system options instead.
>
>Gwen
>>
GWEN! Shame on you.
You don't have to know SHIT about dogs to get one. You just have to
be willing to learn and be patient, and you have to like dogs.
I don't know much about dogs, but I have raised a very good one of
just the type this guy wants.
Charlie
Gwen Watson
Cate wrote:
Oh boy, a must have. Do they do house cleaning?
Gwen
Gwen Watson
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
Indeed Charlie. But does your dog live most of
the time outside? I would imagine so.
Anyway you are correct, shame on me for assuming
troll. Shame on me for believing dogs should
be treated as cherished family members
not alarm system/devices/deterents.
Gwen
Charlie Wilkes
wrote:
>
>"Gwen Watson" <gw...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
>news:cnddmd$334$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
>>
>>
>> GeneS wrote:
>>
>> > LOL - when you find a security system that will prevent
>> > an intruder & immediately protect your property & children -
>> > let me know. The cats would be thrilled to learn that coyotes
>> > will be detected by an alarm - and not attacked by a dog:-)
>> >
>> > Gene
>>
>>
>> LOL, you leave your children unattended at home? In Austin?
>
>Unattended children? NOT. Where did you get that?
>
You are getting the rec.pets.dogs.behavior snark treatment, Gene.
These women are quick to jump to alarming conclusions and berate new
posters. I have seen it over and over. In fact, I was a victim when
I first started posting in this group. The people in this group
aren't experts, just average dog owners, but they would like to think
they know more than they do.
Gwen is a nice lady and usually better than this. I would suggest you
and she get together. She can assess your situation and help you get
squared away with the right dog and soon you will be friends.
Charlie
Charlie Wilkes
wrote:
>
>
>Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:16:12 -0600, Gwen Watson <gw...@ig.utexas.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It doesn't sound like you know enough about dogs to consider
>>>one. It may be best for you to consider one of the security
>>>system options instead.
>>>
>>>Gwen
>>>
>> GWEN! Shame on you.
>>
>> You don't have to know SHIT about dogs to get one. You just have to
>> be willing to learn and be patient, and you have to like dogs.
>>
>> I don't know much about dogs, but I have raised a very good one of
>> just the type this guy wants.
>>
>> Charlie
>
>Indeed Charlie. But does your dog live most of
>the time outside? I would imagine so.
Are you kidding? My dog sleeps in bed with me. But if she hears
something, I put her out and she is all over it. She has run off
several intruders.
Charlie
Charlie Wilkes
<charlie...@users.easynews.com> wrote:
Sorry I got my url wrong:
www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy
Cate
@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu:
> Oh boy, a must have. Do they do house cleaning?
Hell, if it did, I'd buy it.
Cate
Marcel Beaudoin
"GeneS" <ge...@thegateway.net> wrote in news:8opmd.4817$Pd2.1992269
@monger.newsread.com:
> I would like to get your opinions about which dog would
> be the best choice to purchase, and where to find the dog.
> We live near Austin, Texas.
OK, from my knowledge, that is a hot place. This means that you have to
consider a refuge for the dog when it gets extremely hot and humid in the
summer. What other inclement weather do you get there?? (I ask because I
am from Ottawa, Canada, and our idea of inclement weather involves low
temperatures and snow. You don't get that in texas, I don't think.)
> Things to consider:
> 1. The dog will be around children from 1 to 12 years old.
This is a pretty wide range to be considering. Most reputable
adoption/rescue agencies will tell people that are looking for a dog when
they have young kids to wait until they are a bit older before you get a
dog. 6 or so. This is mainly because, younger than that, kids may not
understand that the dog needs to be left alone or treated in a certain
manner. Any interaction between dog(s) and young children should be
carefully supervised. Are your kids going to bring friends over?? How
about friends and visitors?? If you have a dog for home security, you
have to be more careful about that.
> 2. The location is a VERY rural area, on a 25 acre completely
> fenced homesite.
I would recommend fencing in a smaller area around the home, and only
allow the dog out to the larger area when you will be with the dog. This
reduces the likelyhood that your dog will find a hole in the fence and go
wandering off and cause trouble.
> 3. The dog should bark & cause any intruder to pause. The dog
> should never attack anyone - just an aggressive nature.
This is, IMO, looking for a very fine line to walk. The more aggressive
in nature a dog is, the closer it is from expressing that agressive
nature with teeth than just with barking. (Note, this is my opinion, not
a statement of fact). As opposed to an aggressive dog, why not just get a
vocal dog. Something that will bark a lot when strangers come around. For
many people, a big black dog (BBD) is very effective and providing home
security. If you get a BBD that has a *very* loud voice, the sound will
cause anybody to pause before entering the house. Never mind that as soon
as they get in the house s/he is a big baby and will roll on his/her back
for tummy rubs and treats.
> 4. There are coyotes that come up to eat a cat from time to time.
Coyotes are, pound for pound, tougher than a dog of equal size, as far as
I know. Looking for a dog to take on a coyote means getting a Big dog,
which presents its own group of problems (health, lifespan, problems with
heat stroke)
> 5. It would be best if the dog would stay around the house most
> of the time, and not take hikes into the woods.
This is partly based on breed, but mostly based on training.
> 6. Not sure if it is better to buy a puppy, or an older dog that has
> been trained.
There are different responsabilities for each option. With an older dog,
you know what personality the dog will have, and you know how it will
react under certain circumstances. However, the older dog may come with
habits that may be difficult to cure. In addition, it may be difficult to
get the exact mix of breeds that you want.
> 7. If dogs are "smart", them we want a smart one. Not sure how
> one determines intelligence.
That is a debate that is entirely subjective. How do you define
intelligence in a species whose brains we, despite claims by a certain
occasional poster to this ng, don't have any idea how they function.
--
Marcel and Moogli
Gwen Watson
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> Are you kidding? My dog sleeps in bed with me. But if she hears
> something, I put her out and she is all over it. She has run off
> several intruders.
>
> Charlie
Then that's the difference between you and me.
That's what my 357 is for. Not my dog. I would
stand in front of my dog if an intruder were
to come about and beg them to shoot me
NOT one of my beloved dogs.
That is what I have guns for.
Gwen
Gwen Watson
LOL! Indeed.
Gwen
Gwen Watson
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>
> Gwen is a nice lady and usually better than this. I would suggest you
> and she get together. She can assess your situation and help you get
> squared away with the right dog and soon you will be friends.
>
> Charlie
Charlie I just have some red flag issues
going on. The coyote thing bugs me.
The dog being good with kids
but aggressive bugs me. It's hard
to have one and not have the other
arise and it could very well be one
of the kids friends.
Yes, Gene lives pretty darned close.
I would think he could find a very good
dog in the Burnet County animal shelter
or any of the Vets near him have numerous
posting from many BYB's in his area. Not
to mention tons and tons and tons of
purposely bred mixed breeds in his area.
Pitbull/chow mix puppy should be very easy
to find in Lampasas. Or shepherd/chow mix
or numerous types of lab mixes by the tons
as well.
Gwen
flick
> He actually said the area is fenced.
What type of fence? If it's standard country perimeter
fence of 3 strands of barbed wire, it isn't going to
keep a dog in.
flick 100785
>
> Cate
Charlie Wilkes
wrote:
>
>
I've got a revolver too. I'm pretty sure I could hit a guy who was
less than 6 feet away even without even cocking the hammer. But it's
not much good in pitch dark in my woodsy back yard. Overall, the dog
is a more efficient tool for handling local teenagers and scrap
thieves from the foothill towns. And there's no paperwork to fill out
later.
I know you Texans put great stock in guns and violence as a way of
solving problems, but other techniques can be valid as well.
Charlie
Charlie Wilkes
wrote:
>
>
>Charlie Wilkes wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Gwen is a nice lady and usually better than this. I would suggest you
>> and she get together. She can assess your situation and help you get
>> squared away with the right dog and soon you will be friends.
>>
>> Charlie
>
>
>Charlie I just have some red flag issues
>going on. The coyote thing bugs me.
>The dog being good with kids
>but aggressive bugs me. It's hard
>to have one and not have the other
>arise and it could very well be one
>of the kids friends.
>
I can only say that my dog poses no danger to any child. She loves
kids and they love her. She doesn't go bounding into toddlers, either
-- she sniffs them gently with her butt wiggling and her tail wagging
and she is careful not to scare them or upset their balance. She is
extremely protective of kids -- it's in her genetics.
I think your red flag issues may be valid. I keep my dog in when
coyotes are about. This is why I think it would make sense for you
and Gene to correspond about details. Perhaps you can introduce him
to some local experts who will help him develop a dog-ownership plan
that works for man and beast. He is, after all, defining his
requirements BEFORE getting the dog, which is the right time to be
misinformed and make mistakes, right?
Charlie
Leah
>She was severely punished by being tied out away from the house, alone
>with nothing but a bowl of water for 48 hours.
Oh, for cryin' out loud.
Okay, don't take any advice from Charlie. Anybody who thinks that this is the
proper way to train a dog is living in a fantasy world.
Dogs live in the here and now. If you catch them doing something and call them
over to you, they will associate whatever you do or say with COMING TO YOU.
Not what they were doing a minute before.
You can't "punish" a dog after the fact. And if you do punish a dog for coming
to you (which is apparently as close as Charlie got), you will get a dog who is
reluctant to come when called.
---
Canine Action Dog Trainer
Charlie Wilkes
>>Charlie Wilkes charlie...@users.easynews.com wrote:
>>She was severely punished by being tied out away from the house, alone
>>with nothing but a bowl of water for 48 hours.
>
>Oh, for cryin' out loud.
>
>Okay, don't take any advice from Charlie. Anybody who thinks that this is the
>proper way to train a dog is living in a fantasy world.
>
>Dogs live in the here and now. If you catch them doing something and call them
>over to you, they will associate whatever you do or say with COMING TO YOU.
>Not what they were doing a minute before.
>
>You can't "punish" a dog after the fact. And if you do punish a dog for coming
>to you (which is apparently as close as Charlie got), you will get a dog who is
>reluctant to come when called.
>
Why isn't my dog reluctant to come when called, then?
This is a life and death issue for a dog like mine living in a rural
area. She might get shot if she is in a field with someone's
livestock. I didn't punish her because I was angry, and I intensely
disliked doing it.
What happened is that the dog ran off in the evening with my tenants'
dog and refused to come back when called. The next morning, about 10
a.m., I found both dogs at the site of an outbuilding then under
construction about 75 yards from my house. They appeared to know that
they had screwed up, or otherwise they'd have come to one or the other
of the houses.
So, I leashed Holly and tied her out as I described.
I don't recommend this, nor do I hold it out as the right way to
handle the situation. I was worried about the implications of my dog
running off, and I was desperate to communicate the importance of this
issue. It seems to have worked, because she has not run off since and
this was a couple of years ago.
There might be a better way but I don't know of one. Do you?
Charlie
Sionnach
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041116160854...@mb-m19.aol.com...
> >Charlie Wilkes charlie...@users.easynews.com wrote:
> >She was severely punished by being tied out away from the house, alone
> >with nothing but a bowl of water for 48 hours.
>
> Oh, for cryin' out loud.
>
> Okay, don't take any advice from Charlie. Anybody who thinks that this is
the
> proper way to train a dog is living in a fantasy world.
Charlie's not living in a fantasy world, just a cloud of drugs - which he
freely admits and is proud of.
(To the OP: I'm not joking or flaming; if you do a Google search, you can
find numerous posts from Charlie referring to this, and IIRC you can even
find one where he talks about his DOG being a "pothead".)
The Puppy Wizard
"Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:2vvo89F...@uni-berlin.de...
You mean Vs being a lying dog abusing mental case
like yourself?:
sinofabitch writes:
> >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
> >> posts from two different people,
> >> took pieces of them out of context,
> >> cobbled them together,
> >> then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> >>and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> >> Which is exactly what he did.
> >> The actual quote is misleading
> >> when taken out of context, and Jerry's
> >> faked "quote" is downright meaningless.
>
> >Here's Jerry's version
>
> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
>
> >Here's yours;
>
> > "I dropped the leash, threw my
> > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> > grabbed her opposite foot with my
> > left hand, rolled her on her side,
> > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> > nipped her ear.
> > --Sara Sionnach
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
>
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
>
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
>
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Jerking choking and shockin and lockin dogs
in boxes and ignoring their cries makes their
dogs go "EWWWW" but they don't NOTICE
EXXXCEPT to spray BINACA in their eyes
and jerk and choke them on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars and shock and spray MOORE
aversives in their faces.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL cause
the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's been sprayed
in the face and the dog won't know HOWE COME
IT was MACED?
> > My dogs are not human children wearing
> > fur- they are DOGS.
They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL
LYING DOG ABUSERS HURT and MURDER.
From: sionnach (rhyf...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
>
> And Sally responded:
>
> >Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> >that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
> >Sally Hennessey
>
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
> across the room!
>
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
> 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
>
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...
>
>Di,
>
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
>
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
>
> --Marshall
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting your dog will often
> > > make the dog either aggressive or a fear biter,
> > > neither of which we want to do.
>
> > And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> > No matter what Jerry Howe states.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> > You're scary Marilyn.
>
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
> > I feel very sorry for her and her family. BUT,
> > giving you the benefit of the doubt, please
> > provide a quote (an original quote, not from
> > one of Jerry Howe's heavily edited diatribes)
> > that shows a regular poster promoting or using
> > an abusive form of training.
>
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Is that true, Marilyn?
Of course not~ but THIS IS:
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."
From: sionnach (rhyf...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
>
> And Sally responded:
>
> >Who said that? I would never do or recommend that, and
> >neither would most of the regulars on here.
> >
> >Sally Hennessey
>
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Tke it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
> across the room!
>
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
> 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer-given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the loose
skin at the back of the neck and give a slight shake to
the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking the puppy,
which I think we ALL agree is abusive.
Aggression, Opposition And Allelomimetic Behavior -
Teaching RESPECT For Your HIGHER INTELLIGENCE -
"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS!!!"
Here's professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: new puppy bitting/chewing hands
Date: 1999/07/05
In article
<976F54CA8C2C77AB.9DF24592...@lp.airnews.net
> Jason <asl...@removethisline.geocities.com> writes:
:
> I would assume that all puppies like to bite and chew
> on just about anything. How do you train a young
> puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet? Although
> there is a time and place for saying 'no' and giving
> the dog a scruff shake I do no know if this is appropriate
> at this age.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral
function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy
by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency
of the biting decreases then you will have achieved
too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has
decreased; and two, you have established "No"
as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted biting.
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before
mild forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's
mouth closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad
Dog" came before stronger punishement (the
kind discussed above).
My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually
sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to
stop a behavior.
"Bad Dog" ALWAYS works.
then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog" when
he is appropriately behaving.
In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement
as in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement,
timing is very important.
Use these consquences to control behavior much
as in the game where a child is told "your getting hot"
or "your getting cold." If the delay between the behavior
and the consquence is too long then the behavior will
not appropriately change.
--Marshall
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Update on Puppy Biting
Date: 1999/06/14
In article <37675817...@news3.bga.com>
clayn@NO_JUNKdillonet.com
writes:
:
> My previous thread seems to have deteriorated
> off topic, but I would still like some input on
> biting and aggressive behavior. To recount I
> have a Chow/Lab mix who is now 9 weeks old.
> The biggest problem I had with him is biting.
:
> This could have been when petting him, walking
> by, or when playing. This seems to be his way of
> playing or getting attention, but it can drive me nuts.
>
> To stop this I've distracted with chew toys,
Distraction can be a BIG mistake! Why? Because if
your manipulation of the chew toy is reinforcing then
you are inadvertently reinforcing your dog for biting if
you follow his biting with activating the chew toy.
The standard way to curtail biting is to either "yelp
loudly," "clamp the dog's mouth shut with your hand,"
or "pick him up by the scruff of his neck" and say "no"
whenever he bites.
All of these are punishment procedures and
to work they must be put into place promptly,
within say .5 sec, after the bite.
Isolating the dog after a bite is another form
of punishment called time-out (from reinforcement
but it is hard to rapidly implement--within .5
sec of a bite.
If one of these procedures does not work, that is,
your dog behaves as if it were a game, then you
are not using an effective punisher/procedure.
> I said NO, and failing that put him in my room
> alone for a few min. When in there he barks
> and whines, but afterwards behaves much better.
> After about a week of this the biting has decreased
> remarkably, but hasn't stopped outright. Still does it
> when he gets into hyper Puppy Jihad mode.
Well, be patient.
You can, of course, use differential reinforcement
of other behavior to eliminate biting. If there is a
situation in which your dog often bites. then create
the situation and if your dog goes without biting for
1 sec. offer a reinforcer (click and treat if you use
a clicker).
Then gradually increase the time that your dog
must go without biting for the reinforcer to be
delivered. Eventually, your dog will not bite and
the other behaviors that you have been reinforcing
will be more frequent.
Another factor to consider is whether your dog
is getting sufficient exercise.
Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.
Best wishes,
Marshall
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should
pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work
as efficiently as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior." --Mike Dufort author of the zero selling
book "Courteous Canines"
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but w e'vecomealongwaysincethen.Shetrusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jalts...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
>
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
> Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
> is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
> keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
> up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
> and the vet agrees.
>
> --Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
From: culprit (cul...@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing bark alert,
while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST
"micha el" <spam_y...@spamyourmamma.com> wrote in message
news:yIydnZpPsIz...@comcast.com...
>
> Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
> it felt like to me when I got shocked by
> Hope's collar.
>
> It felt like a bomb going off in my
> hand and forearm.
--------------------------------
"Tricia9999" <trici...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433...@mb-cg.aol.com...
> >> how effective are these electronic fences in
> >> keeping a dog on a property????
>
> Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
> too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
>
> Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
> because the dog got caught right in the path of
> the shock and will now not go near his person,
> won't go outside.
>
> Just hides under a desk in the house.
----------------------------------
http://tinyurl.com/389al
In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.
If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.
Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh
ADIOS, MENTAL CASES.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Leah
>Why isn't my dog reluctant to come when called, then?
Not because you tied her up for 48 hours without food.
>I didn't punish her because I was angry, and I intensely
>disliked doing it.
But the punishment did *nothing* to teach her what she is supposed to do. In
fact, I guarantee you that she had no clue why she was being punished. Dogs'
minds just don't work like that.
> It seems to have worked
Again, I guarantee you that the punishment had nothing to do with whether or
not she has ever run off again.
>There might be a better way but I don't know of one. Do you?
Well, yea. You teach her to come when you call by making it a wonderful
experience every time she does. You start easy, in the house when there's
nothing else going on. Then you start to add distractions and distance. Then
you go outside and start easy, then begin to add distractions and distance.
You raise the criteria slowly at the pace she's learning, until she will come
when you call under any circumstances. Wouldn't even think of not doing it.
If she does have a reliable recall, it's in spite of the fact that you tied her
out for 48 hours. Not because of it.
I had a really good test of my dogs' recall these last two days, when Baby and
Blackie have been out next door. My dogs are fence-running with them, back and
forth, as fast as their little legs can carry them. They stop to rest, pant
and sniff each other, then start up again.
By the way, we're not talking fence aggression. I watch it carefully. All
body language is flat-out play. MacKenzie started out a bit uncertain about
the female adolescent, but we had a talk and she's fine now. :}
Anyway, I don't mind it when they're quiet, and I can't do anything about the
neighbors' dogs barking their fool heads off. But when mine start to get too
vocal, I call them in. I have to admit that I was surprised at how easily
Madigan and Murphy can be called out of mid-frenzy, spin on a dime and run to
me. We haven't had anything anywhere near this exciting going on back there
for a long time.
But at first MacKenzie tried to ignore me. She couldn't - I could see her ears
and eyes twitch in my direction - but she did a good job of pretending she
couldn't hear me.
So I went back to walking her down. That is, I just calmly walked to her,
non-emotionally, following her until she gave herself up, then calmly walked
her into the house. We've been through this before when she was an adolescent,
so she now gives herself up pretty quickly. :}
I also went back to a richer reward schedule. That is, I gave treats for
almost every recall where I didn't have to walk her down, and gave her 10-15
seconds of praise the times that I didn't give her food.
(The dogs are in and out at least 20 times a day apiece, so it's easy to get a
lot of practice at this. Man, I need a dog door. :}
Well, it took a day and a half, but now MacKenzie recalls off a mid fence-race.
Happily.
I grade my graduating class on come when called by the pup's enthusiasm. If
they're barreling so fast that they have to skid-sit to a stop and almost knock
their humans over, then I know the owners have been working them right. I want
to see YAY, MY FAVORITE COMMAND!!! every time they hear it.
Charlie Wilkes
>>Charlie Wilkes charlie...@users.easynews.com wrote:
>>Why isn't my dog reluctant to come when called, then?
>
>Not because you tied her up for 48 hours without food.
>
>>I didn't punish her because I was angry, and I intensely
>>disliked doing it.
>
>But the punishment did *nothing* to teach her what she is supposed to do. In
>fact, I guarantee you that she had no clue why she was being punished. Dogs'
>minds just don't work like that.
>
Why didn't her and ol' Chuck Berry just amble up onto the front porch
in the morning when they were ready to come home? Why did I find them
lying in a muddy clearing by a shed that was under construction near
the house? Why didn't they leap up to greet me when they saw me,
instead of continuing to lie there, wagging their tails sheepishly as
I approached?
At the time, I didn't know if my punishment would work, but I was
desperate because they had run off together several times for shorter
periods, and I can't have a dog like Holly roaming with another dog
where there are sheep. So I carried out this unpleasant punishment,
and I said to myself, if this doesn't work, I'm not going to use any
punishment next time, but instead will confine the dog to a run,
because this is as far as I am willing to go and I can't be watching
my dog every second.
Anyway, this is a dead issue, because the dog is fully reliable now.
My method appeared to work because it marked the last time Holly ever
ran off, but I would not argue that it was shown conclusively to work
or that it is a sound practice, or that I would do it again in the
same circumstances. I'm not sure what I would do.
Charlie
Leah
>Why didn't her and ol' Chuck Berry just amble up onto the front porch
>in the morning when they were ready to come home? Why did I find them
>lying in a muddy clearing by a shed that was under construction near
>the house? Why didn't they leap up to greet me when they saw me,
>instead of continuing to lie there, wagging their tails sheepishly as
>I approached?
You weren't by any chance angry at the time, were you? :}
I had a dog in class last week who wasn't herself. She wouldn't focus, seemed
listless, and was a bit skittish. Dad wondered if she was sick. He mentioned
that he had had a very bad day, and came straight to class from work.
"So when you picked her up, you were in a really bad mood?" I asked.
"Yes."
"Do you usually talk to her on the way to class?" (I knew he did.)
"Oh, yea!"
"Did you talk to her on the way to class tonight?"
Nope. He sat and stewed in uncharacteristic silence. And because of her
owner's mood, this daddy's girl was visibly stressed.
Though it's an over-exaggeration, there is some truth to Marilyn's statement,
"Never frown at your dog." :}
I don't know why Holly didn't run off again. Maybe her first overnight
excursion wasn't much fun. Maybe you've established such a strong bond with
her that nothing is more rewarding than being with you. Perhaps something you
did in training a come command worked well. But it wasn't because of a
punishment that went on for 48 hours.
Even when you give a dog a time out, for it to be effective you have to (1)
catch him in the act and immediately swoosh him into the time out, and (2) keep
him in there as minimal a time as possible. If you have to pick him up, run up
the stairs and into the bathroom, you've lost him halfway up there. He may
know you're angry, but the reason why has left the data banks. And if he's in
there too long - like over 10 seconds for puppies - you'll lose him. He'll be
into something else and you've lost the lesson of why he's being isolated.
Some dogs can do some level of analytical thinking that defies all explanation.
But what you're expecting from Holly's brain is far too anthropomorphic.
Believe me, she didn't sit and meditate on the consequences of running off for
those 48 hours. All she thought was, "I'm lonely. I'm bored. I'm
uncomfortable. I'm frightened. I'm hungry." Here and now.
>My method appeared to work because it marked the last time Holly ever
>ran off, but I would not argue that it was shown conclusively to work
>or that it is a sound practice, or that I would do it again in the
>same circumstances. I'm not sure what I would do.
Well, at least you have an open mind. :}
Charlie Wilkes
The problem arose when I left my dog out and she got together with
another loose dog and may have been out of earshot (although I don't
think so) by the time I called. It was a mild October night with a
full moon and lots of birds hooting it up in the woods and down along
the shore.
I don't think what I did was the right approach. It might have been
better to watch more carefully and nip it in the bud, but ignore it
when it did happen. Part of the problem I was having at that time was
that my tenants weren't taking the issue as seriously as I was, which
added to my sense of desperation.
But, that's another story... now that my dog is a fully mature adult,
the idea of punishing her for anything is absurd, because she is
fanatically loyal and dedicated to pleasing me with everything she
does.
Charlie
Charlie Wilkes
>>Charlie Wilkes charlie...@users.easynews.com wrote:
>>Why didn't her and ol' Chuck Berry just amble up onto the front porch
>>in the morning when they were ready to come home? Why did I find them
>>lying in a muddy clearing by a shed that was under construction near
>>the house? Why didn't they leap up to greet me when they saw me,
>>instead of continuing to lie there, wagging their tails sheepishly as
>>I approached?
>
>You weren't by any chance angry at the time, were you? :}
No. I did not act in anger. I put on the face of a grim
administrator. I was downhearted, because I want a dog who can be put
out in an open yard without running off, and I was contemplating the
need for a run, which constrains how much the animal can enjoy the
rural area where I live. My observation is that once a dog is
confined to a run for significant periods of time, it becomes less
manageable outside the run. A dog like mine might also become vicious
if not allowed to mingle freely with the rest of the household. I
didn't want to go that route.
Charlie
flick
<snipped>
> But the punishment did *nothing* to teach her what she is supposed to do. In
> fact, I guarantee you that she had no clue why she was being punished. Dogs'
> minds just don't work like that.
>
>
>>It seems to have worked
>
>
> Again, I guarantee you that the punishment had nothing to do with whether or
> not she has ever run off again.
Leah, I can't help but wonder if Charlie's punishment
did work. He ostracized the dog from the pack,
withheld food and kicked it out of the den.
Maybe that made his dog more likely to stay closer to
both, more dependent, once she was allowed back.
Though I'm sure she doesn't connect her wandering off
and the punishment.
It isn't a technique I'd go for, either, btw.
flick 100785
The Puppy Wizard
if you can't "train" them to stay behind your shock fence.
"flick" <fl...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:EZHmd.364$mZ4...@fe25.usenetserver.com...
Gwen Watson
Charlie Wilkes wrote:
> I know you Texans put great stock in guns and violence as a way of
> solving problems, but other techniques can be valid as well.
>
> Charlie
Charlie that's not true. And the other techniques that
are valid don't involve any of my dogs. One of which
is a GSD and the other a Malinois. Which are often
used in military, SAR, and for protection. But that
sure isn't why I have them.
Gwen
Leah
>Leah, I can't help but wonder if Charlie's punishment
>did work. He ostracized the dog from the pack,
>withheld food and kicked it out of the den.
>
>Maybe that made his dog more likely to stay closer to
>both, more dependent, once she was allowed back.
>Though I'm sure she doesn't connect her wandering off
>and the punishment.
I thought about that. It is even possible that the traumatic experience caused
a mild separation anxiety. So in that perspective, it may have worked.
>It isn't a technique I'd go for, either, btw.
No, and I don't think Charlie would now either. :}
Before I knew better, I did some horrendous things to "punish my dogs for their
own good." I certainly can't judge somebody else for it, as long as they're
willing to learn. Up until a relatively short while ago, family pet training
common knowledge was non-existent other than the "old wives' tales" handed down
from generation to generation (i.e., rub your dog's nose in his mistakes).
I used to chase after my dog for running off, yell at him and slap him all the
way home, and then give him a time out for a couple of hours. I had to be
strict, he could get killed on the streets! Gee, I wonder why he never came
when I called him? Must be because he was stubborn!
Sigh. And I'd have been shocked and appalled if anybody had called me cruel.
I could shoot myself. :}
Charlie Wilkes
>> fl...@starband.net wrote:
>>Leah, I can't help but wonder if Charlie's punishment
>>did work. He ostracized the dog from the pack,
>>withheld food and kicked it out of the den.
>>
>>Maybe that made his dog more likely to stay closer to
>>both, more dependent, once she was allowed back.
>>Though I'm sure she doesn't connect her wandering off
>>and the punishment.
>
>I thought about that. It is even possible that the traumatic experience caused
>a mild separation anxiety. So in that perspective, it may have worked.
>
>>It isn't a technique I'd go for, either, btw.
>
>No, and I don't think Charlie would now either. :}
>
>Before I knew better, I did some horrendous things to "punish my dogs for their
>own good." I certainly can't judge somebody else for it, as long as they're
>willing to learn. Up until a relatively short while ago, family pet training
>common knowledge was non-existent other than the "old wives' tales" handed down
>from generation to generation (i.e., rub your dog's nose in his mistakes).
>
>I used to chase after my dog for running off, yell at him and slap him all the
>way home, and then give him a time out for a couple of hours. I had to be
>strict, he could get killed on the streets! Gee, I wonder why he never came
>when I called him? Must be because he was stubborn!
Well, Leah, my approach wasn't quite that reactive and ill-considered.
It was something I thought through in advance and carried out
systematically.
As I expected, once Holly was allowed to rejoin the household, she was
contrite and eager for affection. And I royally laid it on, too. She
did not want to leave my side after that.
Holly is about 3-1/2 now, and I will get another dog in about 2 years.
My hope is that Holly will help me train by example. Right now I have
a 14-year-old lab/retriever who I am caring for... he's in great shape
and easy to have around, but not as wary and tuned-in as Holly is.
Very subtly, she has taught him what she knows -- i.e., the limits of
the safe zone around the house. He wouldn't "run off," but he might
wander onto the public road that fronts this lot. But Holly runs an
orbit around him and sort of steers him the right way, toward the
woods in back. She has almost become like an extension of my own will
on certain matters.
Charlie
flick
> Before I knew better, I did some horrendous things to "punish my dogs for their
> own good." I certainly can't judge somebody else for it, as long as they're
> willing to learn. Up until a relatively short while ago, family pet training
> common knowledge was non-existent other than the "old wives' tales" handed down
> from generation to generation (i.e., rub your dog's nose in his mistakes).
>
> I used to chase after my dog for running off, yell at him and slap him all the
> way home, and then give him a time out for a couple of hours. I had to be
> strict, he could get killed on the streets! Gee, I wonder why he never came
> when I called him? Must be because he was stubborn!
>
> Sigh. And I'd have been shocked and appalled if anybody had called me cruel.
> I could shoot myself. :}
Well, dogs, bless 'em, are adaptable and usually
forgiving. You learned better, and they got over it.
flick 100785
The Puppy Wizard
"Mary H Healey" <mhhe...@iastate.edu> wrote in message
news:419B6606...@iastate.edu...
>
> GeneS wrote:
> > I am some impressed with the Blue Healer -
> > at least what I have read so far.
>
> You enjoy tales of destruction and devastation?
You mean on accHOWENT of you ain't intelligent
enough to TRAIN a puppy not to destroy your HOWES?
> > They seem intelligent & with a 25 acre dog proof fence,
You can PERIMETER TRAIN your dog in a few minutes.
An "ESCAPE PROOF" fence is a LOGICAL FALLACY.
> > should have the room to be comfortable.
Accordin to HOWER CRATE TRAININ EXXXPERTS
all the dog NEEDS is enough room to stand up an
turn arHOWEND. You don't WANT them to have
TOO MUCH room or they'll SHIT their crate if they
got ROOM to AVOID LAYING in it.
> > Our dogs never come inside the house, as
> > they have one of their own.
Fine. Many dogs live HOWEtside.
> The dog will either kick your butt and head for town,
That so? Gene didn't say he was fixin to jerk
and choke his dogs on pronged spiked pinch
choke collars or shock them like you and your
PALS recommend.
> or just eat the children.
Dogs and kids go together like hand in glove.
> You do NOT NOT NOT want a Heeler
A dog is a dog.
> as an "outside only" dog
A dog is a ANIMAL. Animals LIVE HOWEtside,
by their NATURE. There's NO PROBLEM for
havin HOWEtside dogs.
> (defined as: not with humans at least 16-18 hours a day).
CITES PLEASE?
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
You're a lying dog abusing mental case, mary.
> They are bright,
BRILLIANT, compared to the likes of you.
> but you really do not want to deal with a dog
> that thinks customizing your truck by chewing
> through the tires and wiring is an amusing
> half-day project.
Perhaps the dog wouldn't DO that if he had
the keys and could cruize the hood a bit?
> If it moves, it dies.
Kinda like culprit's DEAD KAT or leah's
RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT Rottie
and them other "STUDENT'S" little dogs
that MURDERED her HOWES bunny, eh
mary?
> If it doesn't move, bite it until it move, then
> kill it. These are the two most basic tenets
> of Heeler belief.
You're a MENTAL CASE, mary. We don't
blame the BREED for being TOO BRILIANT
to HOWEtwit the cunning behaviors of the
domestic puppy dog noMOORE.
> > Not sure if the Blue Healer will harass the
> > neighbor's cattle & deer hunters near the
> > fences though?
You can TRAIN them not to DO that.
> How tall is the fence?
That's IRRELEVENT, mary. Any self respecting
dog can dig under jump over climb or chew through
any fence you can afford to build.
> My red will clear a 4' fence as casually
> as walking up stairs.
Yeah. So you can't leave IT HOWET withHOWET
watchin IT or IT will ESCAPE like HOWE you warned
Gene.
> What makes the fence "dog proof"?
You probably shock your dogs, mary.
> Dog'll do more than annoy passersby if it can reach 'em.
Not if you TRAIN the dog, mary.
> In any case, a Heeler doesn't meet several of your criteria.
That so?
> They're not guaranteed good with small children.
You mean, speakin as a EXXXPERT who
knows HOWE to train dogs not to attack
deer and jump fences.
> The dog may bark at intruders,
You think so, mary?
> but is just as likely to take large, bloody chunks
> out of them and let the screams tell you about it.
Well than that S-HOWENDS like a GOOD DOG, mary.
> If a Heeler isn't suckered into becoming
> a coyote snack, he's likely to learn far more
> than you want him to know about predation
> and How to Be Feral.
You mean, as IT roams the neighborhood
lookin for kats and small children to attack.
> They *will* roam in search of entertainment
Bored dogs SLEEP, mary.
> (usually something bloody and destructive).
That so? Kinda like The Amazing Puppy Wizard
attackin you and your mentally ill lying dog abusing
punk thug coward pals, eh mary?
> And they're bright enough to be easily bored.
You ain't bright enough to entertrain a sleepin dog.
> A bored Heeler is a Bad Thing,
Bored dogs SLEEP, mary. You're a mental case.
> and a bored Heeler left to its own devices is,
A dog. A dog is a dog, mary.
> well, let's just say that the situation *will* change.
INDEEDY. Soon as the lying dog abusing punk
thug coward active long term incurable MENTAL
CASES stop blamin the dog for HOWEtwitting them.
> FWIW, my current Heeler lets the Lab do most
> of the patroling and protecting, the routine stuff.
That so? You mean, you're speakin from EXXXPERIENCE.
'Nuff said.
> I figure 70 lbs of snarling black dog is a bit more
> intimidating than 45 lbs of silent orange dog,
So get two orange dogs.
> so I don't usually bother to tell folks that the
> big black dog is (mostly) hot air, but the quiet
> little guy glaring at 'em will leave gaping holes
> where they used to have body parts.
Yeah. On accHOWENT of you got them sowell trained.
> Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo:
> Raise A Fund, ANZ Babylon Ranger,
> ANZ MarmaDUKE, and Rotund Rhia
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog
into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that
hide behind fake names are more honest than people that
use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante
dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey
(lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than
those that have studied and lived by their craft for
decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===============
The Puppy Wizard. <}TPW; - ) >
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <}YPW;~} >
oo-oo
The Puppy Wizard
Nuthin like gettin SYMPATHY from another
lying dog abusing punk thug coward mental
case.
"flick" <fl...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:zpPmd.387$mZ4...@fe25.usenetserver.com...
Scoop
Interesting post. But out of purely academic interest, what do you do
with a dog who's convinced that nothing he could do with you is more
fun than what he's doing? My Jack Russell recently died at 21 -- had
slowed down incredibly the last few years of his life. But when he was
young (up until about 15) if he got vermin cornered somewhere he
couldn't get at them, he would bark and hover around until i came and
physically removed him. He knew he was being called, knew what I
wanted, but wasn't that interested in this instance. I could literally
wave a steak at him and he'd stick with the rabbit or whatever it was.
When he was young I did work with him a fair deal, but of course the
answer is clearly that I didn't work with him enough, or I did a lousy
job. Or, put better, maybe I didn't work with him smart enough. So
what do you do in these sorts of cases? I could never figure out was
the intermediate step in this instance, short of trying to look like a
bunny myself.
Leah
>When he was young I did work with him a fair deal, but of course the
>answer is clearly that I didn't work with him enough, or I did a lousy
>job. Or, put better, maybe I didn't work with him smart enough. So
>what do you do in these sorts of cases? I could never figure out was
>the intermediate step in this instance, short of trying to look like a
>bunny myself.
When my students complain that they lose their puppies as soon as they see a
squirrel, I deadpan, "Well, you have to be more interesting than the squirrel."
That's what I was told when I was having trouble not becoming Madigan's kite
upon sight of squirrel. The principle is correct, but it's not a very helpful
piece of advice. So I further explain, "But unless you can run up a tree
chittering, that's not going to happen right now." And then I talk about
proofing.
When you "proof" a behavior, you make certain that it is unshakable no matter
what the circumstances. To be successful, you have to pick achievable goals,
and then raise the criteria very slowly only when the dog is reliable on the
current step. Some steps will move quickly. Others will seem insurmountable.
For this, I would highly recommend a clicker. When your dog is in a high state
of excitement, he may be able to tune out your voice. I call it "watching TV."
When you're engrossed in a TV program and your spouse is talking to you, you
may not hear him/her. In fact, you may even be answering questions, but you
won't remember.
A distinctive sound that he is conditioned to associate with a reward may be
more likely to get through than a voice he hears blah-blahing all the time.
Also, with a clicker you can catch even an ear-twitch intention to do
something, so that you can break the hard steps into teeny little achievable
pieces.
The first thing I do to proof a pup's sit is simply have another student stand
quietly about 2' away from the puppy. The criteria to move on is when he
performs the sit when asked without glancing at the stranger after several
trials. I raise criteria by having the person sit on the floor. And then lie
on the floor. (No, we don't go this far in class - I don't make my students
lie on the wet pavement. :}
By the way, this all ties in to my theory about the Dog Law of Human Head
Trajectory. The closer to the ground the human head, the more magnetic
attraction to the dog's tongue. A person lying on the floor is an almost
irresistible temptation to a 3 month old puppy.
So to take these principles and train a jrt to recall off a mouse, you would
need to get very creative about your proofing. And, I would imagine, have the
patience of Job. :} This is not an easy task.
But it can be done!
ceb
news:20041118112156...@mb-m15.aol.com:
> So to take these principles and train a jrt to recall off a mouse, you
> would need to get very creative about your proofing. And, I would
> imagine, have the patience of Job. :} This is not an easy task.
>
> But it can be done!
>
Do you think that's always true? It seems like the "high independence" type
dogs (which most terriers would fall into, and certainly JRTs would) just
are never 100% recall-proofed. There are always times when they will do
what they want if you don't have physical control of them. And when you
have high independence combined with a highly instinctual task (such as a
JRT with a rodent), the likelihood that the dog will listen to his/her
person seems to go down considerably.
Or do you think this happens just because an owner tolerates it?
--Catherine
& Zoe the highly independent but generally well-trained and cooperative
cockerchow
Leah
>Do you think that's always true? It seems like the "high independence" type
>dogs (which most terriers would fall into, and certainly JRTs would) just
>are never 100% recall-proofed.
Oh, only the Aibo can be 100% recall-proofed. :} But you can shoot for the
high 90s. If you're persistent and patient enough, I think you can train a dog
to do anything he's physically capable of doing.
There are always times when they will do
>what they want if you don't have physical control of them. And when you
>have high independence combined with a highly instinctual task (such as a
>JRT with a rodent), the likelihood that the dog will listen to his/her
>person seems to go down considerably.
Absolutely. It would be a real training challenge to have a jrt with a
reliable recall off a rodent. But it's not impossible.
>Or do you think this happens just because an owner tolerates it?
I don't think the average owner wants to make the time and energy commitment it
takes to learn how to achieve this level of training, never mind go for it.
Can't blame 'em.
It's a matter of priorities. With any behavior problem, the owner has to make
a decision between training and management. For many behavior problems,
management is the most expedient solution. For example, at this time I would
prefer to put the garbage up when I leave the house than attempt to train three
dogs to leave it alone when I'm not home. Very easy management solution,
time-consuming and tricky training solution.
(Let me take that back - train TWO dogs. I'm certain it's Kenzie and Murphy,
not Madigan. She has shown no interest in garbage since adolescence. Knows
it's a permanent "leave it" object.)
The OP with the deer-thug dogs has a harder decision. Management would require
that the dogs be leashed when out romping. If running free works well for them
in all circumstances when there are no deer, then the OP may want to consider
training a solid recall as a solution. Since a solid recall is important in
any case, that's what I'd recommend here.
Tough one, but certainly easier than teaching a jrt to recall off a rodent. :}
The Puppy Wizard
In case you're curiHOWES, the Cc: is to INSURE
The Amazing Puppy Wizard pupperly EMBARRASSES
you with your IDIOCY and LIES, leah.
Cc: bali_u...@yahoo.com;
ge...@thegateway.net;
dfrnt...@aol.com:
But don't let THAT stop you:
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041118112156...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> > (Scoop) wrote:
> > When he was young I did work with him a fair deal,
> > but of course the answer is clearly that I didn't work
> > with him enough, or I did a lousy job. Or, put better,
> > maybe I didn't work with him smart enough.
ALL behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
You GET the critter you TRAINED.
> > So what do you do in these sorts of cases?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard and all HIS 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students all over the Whole Wild World just go:
"BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!Q
NHOWE YOU KNOW HOWE COME.
> > I could never figure out was the intermediate
> > step in this instance, short of trying to look like
> > a bunny myself.
THAT will get you DEAD here abHOWETS.
There AIN'T no "intermediate step". EVERY THING
you've been led to believe abHOWET dogs training
and beavior is DEAD WRONG and we got the PROOF
RIGHT HERE in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
on Google.
> When my students complain that they lose their puppies
And their DEAD HOWES kats and bunnys and
that little DEAD DOG in the park your RECENT
GRADUATE STUDENT Rottie MURDERED when
"his PRAY DRIVE SUDDENLY KICKED IN."
> as soon as they see a squirrel, I deadpan,
> "Well, you have to be more interesting than
> the squirrel."
ANY behavior that's CONSISTENT PREDICTABLE
or REPEATABLE is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH NEARLY
INSTANTLY if you know HOWE.
IOW, you can't train a dog not to attack a
squirrel any doGgamend better than you
can train a dog not to EAT POISON or
attack a little innocent DEAD DOG in the
park or MURDER their own HOWES bunny:
Really Bad Day
Date: 2004-03-21 17:34:07 PST
HOWEDY leah,
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF> wrote in message
news:20040321194728...@mb-m15.aol.com...
>
> The mom of a graduate student
BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You're no dog trainer, you're a FRAUD.
> interrupted my class,
Class??? You don't have trainin classes you
teach people to throw treats to dogs for mindless
unthinking behaviors and tell folks to jerk and
choke and shock dogs when bribing and avoiding
behaviors doesn't work an then you try to get HOWET
callin THAT, trainin.
> in a state of shock,
AnyWON who'd trust you to train them to handle
their dog was in a state of shock or takin anti psychotic
meds before they started.
> to tell me that her rottie had killed a little
> dog at a dog park today.
Tough break. R.I.P., dog.
-----------------------
I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying.
You, abHOWET your STUDENT:
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart."
YOUR STUDENT.
--------------------------------------
> That's what I was told when I was having
> trouble not becoming Madigan's kite upon
> sight of squirrel.
Your own dog BIT YOU FIVE TIMES.
You just RECENTLY took your own dog to a
BEHAVIORIST to break her FEAR AGGRESSION
of other dogs on leash. You SEZ "IT DIDN'T WORK."
> The principle is correct,
If that was TRUE you'd be able to TRAIN
EVERY DOG NEARLY INSTANTLY JUST
LIKE HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students all over
the Whole Wild World REPORT RIGHT HERE.
You know, the WONS you call LIARS and FORGERIES.
> but it's not a very helpful piece of advice.
NUTHIN you got is HEELPFUL advice on
accHOWENT of you're a lying dog abusing
punk thug coward FRAUD and ACTIVE LONG
TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASE:
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.
> So I further explain, "But unless you can run up
> a tree chittering, that's not going to happen right now."
Perhaps they could make CHIMPANZEE S-HOWENDS
while doin the MONKEY MACARENA?
IT's EZ!
HERE'S HOWE:
"spin around and start skipping in the
other direction, making chimpanzee
sounds.
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
"Your goal is going to be to teach your dog
that every time he sees another dog, something
good is going to happen.
So as soon as he notices another dog,
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
you begin to praise like mad and stuff his
face with hot dogs. When the dog is out
of sight, the praise and treats stop."
SEE?
O.K., NHOWE YOU TRY?:
Rememer, it ain't hard to do:
"spin around and start skipping in the
other direction, making chimpanzee
sounds.
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
"Your goal is going to be to teach your dog
that every time he sees another dog, something
good is going to happen.
So as soon as he notices another dog,
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
you begin to praise like mad and stuff his
face with hot dogs. When the dog is out
of sight, the praise and treats stop."
SEE?
> And then I talk about proofing.
AHHH, "PROOFING"!
You SEZ you CAN'T PROOF PRAY DRIVE when
your own RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT Rottie
RECENTLY MURDERED a little innocent DEAD
DOG in the park.
REMEMBER, leah?:
"REALLY BAD DAY"
"I was in too much of a state of shock myself to
get details (like which park and what exactly happened),
but she said he chased him, picked him up and shook
him, then grabbed his brother. The other one survived.
Man. I tell my students in every class that dogs are not
little people in fur suits. They are animals. They have
no morals, and don't know right from wrong - only safe
from not safe.
But then prey drive rears its ugly head
and really shoves the message home.
Because I'd bet that's what happened.
This little white fuzzy guy whizzed by
Mack, and his prey drive kicked in.
Plain and simple.
Not a bad dog, not a dangerous dog.
Just a dog.
*Any* dog.
-------------------------
No, not "JUST ANY" dog, leah:
THAT DOG was YOUR RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie you been SOCIALIZING since
IT was TEN WEEKS old.
REMEMBER, leah?
> When you "proof" a behavior,
Like MURDERIN innocent DEAD DOGS in the park?
Or do you mean MOORE like YOUR OWN STUDENT'S
DOGS MURDERIN THEIR OWN HOWES bunny?:
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart."
YOUR STUDENTS DOGS MURDERED
YOUR STUDENT'S HOWES bunny and
you think it's FUNNY. You BLAME THAT
MURDER on a FULL MOON:
> As an interesting side note... do any of you other
> trainers have a problem of not recognizing or
> remembering human students (except that they
> may "look familiar?"). When she started talking
> about having been in my class, I thought she was
> mistaken.
Perhaps THIS'LL sharpen your anti psychotic drug
crazed pathetic selective memory:
"Then I start class, after all the vet staff had left, and
there's a frantic knocking on the door. There's a woman
holding a bloody and lifeless bunny, hysterical.
Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.
(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").
Full moon.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
--------------------------------------
> you make certain that it is unshakable
> no matter what the circumstances.
Like HOWE you trained your own dogs
and kat to TRUST each other? Your kat's
been locked in a box for over WON YEAR
on accHOWENT of you CAN'T "PROOF"
their KAT AGGRESSION.
> To be successful,
Like YOUR STUDENTS? Or like your own dogs
who've DESTROYED your HOWES and RUINED
your marriage and tried to attack your brother in
law and bit you five times, ALL of which you DENY
on accHOWENT of THAT'S your HUMAN NATURE,
the NATURE of a LYING DOG ABUSING PUNK
THUG COWARD ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE
MENTAL CASE.
REMEMBER NHOWE, leah?
THAT'S HOWE COME you take anti psychotic medication.
> you have to pick achievable goals,
Like breakin marie's dog of C-HOWENTER SURFIN
and stealin the baby's food, leah? YOU SAID TO LOCK
THE DOG IN A BOX and whack herself in the head with
a newspaper if she FORGETS to HIDE THE WEENIE
and her dog Macula EATS POISON or steals the child's
food.
> and then raise the criteria very slowly only
> when the dog is reliable on the current step.
Like that recent graduate student Rottie or
them bunny murderin Bichons, leah? HOWE
you gonna "RAISE YOUR CRITTERIA" from
THE GODDAMNED DEAD???
> Some steps will move quickly.
Yeah? Like RIGORMORTIS, leah?
> Others will seem insurmountable.
Like makin your own dogs TRUSTWORTHY
on accHOWENT of all you know is bribe
intimidate avoid and lock dogs in boxes and
try to get HOWET callin THAT, trainin.
> For this, I would highly recommend a clicker.
That so? You just haven't figgered it HOWET,
have you, leah. Your CLICKER TRAINING FAILS
on accHOWENT of WITHHOLDING BRIBES to
elicit MINDLESS MEANINGLESS UNTHINKING
behaviors INCREASES anxiHOWESNESS and
TEACHES GREED and MISTRUST.
> When your dog is in a high state of excitement,
Like when "PRAY DRIVE SUDDENLY REARS ITS
UGLY HEAD", leah?
> he may be able to tune out your voice.
That so? You think offerin a COOKIE will help?
> I call it "watching TV."
You're a MENTAL CASE.
Your own POSTED CASE HISTORY is DEATH.
> When you're engrossed in a TV program and
> your spouse is talking to you, you may not hear
> him/her. In fact, you may even be answering
> questions, but you won't remember.
THAT'S on accHOWENT of your ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDS, leah.
> A distinctive sound that he is conditioned
> to associate with a reward may be more
> likely to get through than a voice he hears
> blah-blahing all the time.
That so, leah?
> Also, with a clicker you can catch even
> an ear-twitch intention to do something,
Like MURDER a innocent little DEAD DOG
in the park, leah? Or do you mean like MURDERIN
your own STUDENT'S HOWES bunny? OR
did you mean MOORE like your own dogs
attacking each other and your own HOWES kat?
> so that you can break the hard steps into
> teeny little achievable pieces.
You mean, INSTEAD of teachin the entire
idea IN CONTEXT using EFFECTIVE NON
PHYSICAL CONDITIONING, leah?
> The first thing I do to proof a pup's sit is simply
> have another student stand quietly about 2' away
> from the puppy. The criteria to move on is when
> he performs the sit when asked without glancing
> at the stranger after several trials. I raise criteria
> by having the person sit on the floor. And then lie
> on the floor. (No, we don't go this far in class - I
> don't make my students lie on the wet pavement. :}
You mean UNLESS THEY'RE DEAD.
You're a MENTAL CASE.
> By the way, this all ties in to my theory about
> the Dog Law of Human Head Trajectory. The
> closer to the ground the human head, the more
> magnetic attraction to the dog's tongue.
THAT'S INSANE.
> A person lying on the floor is an almost
> irresistible temptation to a 3 month old puppy.
BWEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
You threw yourself to the grHOWEND CRYIN
to get your own dog to come. REMEMBER?
> So to take these principles and train a jrt to
> recall off a mouse, you would need to get
> very creative about your proofing.
Yeah. He'd have to perform a freakin MIRACLE
like Jesus done, like HOWE HE done for you,
leah. REMEMBER?
> And, I would imagine, have the patience of Job. :}
Ahhhh, THAT'S on accHOWENT of your "METHDOS"
DON'T WORK, leah.
> This is not an easy task.
IN FACT, it's IMPOSSIBLE on accHOWENT
of your methods are incorrect, leah. Every
thing you think you know is DEAD WRONG
and THAT'S HOWE COME PRAY DRIVE
MURDERED that little INNOCENT DEAD
DOG and that HOWES bunny of YOUR
STUDENTS, leah.
REMEMBER?
> But it can be done!
CITES PLEASE?
> Canine Action Dog Trainer
> http://www.canineaction.com
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Two HOWETA three Pauls PREFER NOT HURTIN
DOGS as The Puppy Wizard teaches in HIS FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
Here's two Pauls:
Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witse...@aol.com
Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.
My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.
When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.
I will write to Amanda about the video.
I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.
Thanks again
Paul
=============================
> From: Paul B (NOSPAMpa...@clear.net.nz)
> Subject: Re: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
> Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST
>
> It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out of a cat bowl
> without too much difficulty.
>
> My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls although
> Roz licks up any bits that have been dropped around the
> bowls :-)
>
> I used a can with stones in it to create a distraction
> anytime the dogs tried to eat the cats food, followed
> with immediate praise. It worked a treat.
>
> The cats bowls are down all the time, usually there is
> food left over but the dogs don't eat it, even if we go
> out and leave the dogs with access inside through a
> dog door.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Obedience and affection are not related, if they
> were everyone would have obedient dogs.
>
> See the dogs, cats, us and pics of NZ etc at my homepage.....
>
> http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/paulbousie/index.html
>
> Updated regularly (last time 23 Jan 01) so keep coming back!!!
>
> ====================
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
>> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
>> I haven't read any other advice that says to
>> praise immediately regardless of what the dog
>> does next (the common advice is to praise once
>> the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
>> stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
>> to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences
>> is an important part of the process.
And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
--Marshall
=================
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:9ihtee$7ib$1...@uwm.edu...
>
From: Paul B (NOSPAM...@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST
Hello Marshall,
The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.
The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.
A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.
One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.
While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.
> Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> that this may not work and so distraction
> is recommended as a back up procedure:
"Estel J. Hines" <ejh...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfN...@comcast.com...
>
>>> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon,
>>> it went something like this with our 11 month old
>>> puppy "Yoshi"
>>> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
>>> us: HUSH Youshi
>>> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
>>> us: Hush Youshi
>>> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .........................
>>> it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
>>> We decided to try the Jerry method
>>> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
>>> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>>> Yoshi Bark, Bark
>>> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
>>> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that.
>>> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
>>> can praise him, to deal with things like this
>>> Thanks Jerry
>>> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
>>> Papers, and learn how to live with our son
>>> "Yoshi", whom we love very much. --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Estel J. Hines
==============
> There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!
Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE.
> Sound distraction may be understood in
> terms of the more general behavior analytic
> approach as follows.
>
> The distracting stimulus
Like a SCRUFF SHAKE, professor?
>evokes a behavior that is incompatible with barking.
You mean like SCREAMING "NO!" into ITS face
for 5 seconds?
> The dog engages in some other behavior
NO, professor SCRUFF SHAKE.
THAT AIN'T HOWE IT WORKS.
> and then is reinforced (if praise functions as a
> reinforcer).
NO, professor. You don't UNDERSTAND the METHOD.
> --Marshal
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would
Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE
Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual."
Disciple Paulie Writes:
I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good dog"
sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll
find your dog thinking then responding everytime.
A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies
to every aspect of the relationship with your dog.
Obedience and affection are not related, if they were
everyone would have obedient dogs.
Paul.
========================
Disciple Paulie Sez: "No One Understands How Wits
End Training Really Works, They Assume It's All Nicey
Nicey And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation Is
Built On Trust And Understanding."
Here's a couple of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students tellin you HOWE they done it EZ GENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE:
"The Puppy Wizard" <ThePupp...@earthlink.net>
schreef inbericht
news:DLpzb.2640$Qd6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> You'll get ALL the INFORMATION you need in your
> FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
> Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual. You'll be
> taught some general exercises to calm and relax
> your dog and give him the direct attention he
> NEEDS in only a few minutes every other day, and
> you'll learn HOWE to use distraction and praise to
> EXXXTINGUISH the HABITUAL aspect of this DIS-
> EASE.
My dog (a 1 year old Yellow Lab) was biting his tail
at the root (Vet said his anal gland was blocked, and
was causing an itch).
After squeezing it, he still wouldn't stop biting his
tail. The vet advised a neck-funnel (don't know wat
you US-guy's call those) so he couldn't reach his butt.
I hate those things, i think they will drive a dog nuts.
I tried the wits end method. (difficult to read such a long
textfile if English is not your native language) Luckily this
is without all the "HOWE's" etc.so at least it's readable for
somebody like me.
The minute he started to bite i trew my key's
next to him on the floor, and praised him (he
stopped biting and looked up when he heard
the sound) I did this 7 times,
after that the tailbiting completely stopped.
Just give the wits end method a try.
One of the possible downloadlocations
is http://www.doggydoright.com/id3.html
Hennie van Dalen
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11
----------------------------
"Paul B" <ab...@clear.net.nz> schreef in bericht
news:3ff5...@clear.net.nz...
>
> Both my dogs at some stage have licked a spot
> somewhere on their bodies and I have always
> managed to train them to stop. In all cases there
> was nothing wrong that licking would have helped
> (Roz has had cut pads, stitches in her belly and
> skin itrritations, all tempting her to lick), none of their
> licking has been due to any allergies
>
>. When I see the dog licking more than normal I
> look at the spot to see whats there and decide if
> a vet appointment is needed or to wait and see,
> keeping a close eye.
>
>To stop the licking I distract the dog and give it
> some friendly banter, when it starts licking again
> I repeat, usually after about 4 times the dog stops,
> for the moment at least, if it starts again then repeat,
> before long the dog has no more desire to lick that
> spot at all.
The same thing worked with my lab licking/chewing
problem too. He had an itch due to blocked anal glands
and started chewing and licking his tail at the root.
After the glands were squeezed, and the itch was
gone he still wouldn't stop. (because the place he
chewed raw was itching)
After some training (roughly the same methode as
yours) he stopped.
--
Hennie van Dalen
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11/fotografie/doggy-pictures/
--------------------------------------
"Hennie van Dalen" <h.vandalen11***removethis***@chello.nl>
wrote in message news:TlsCb.2895$7U1.7896@amstwist00...
RTFM is age-old computer lingo.... It stands for "Read The F***ing
Manual" ;-) I used the manual and it works
very good!
But it is a long text to read (76 pages printed on
A4-size paper) My lab is 1year old now, and teaching
him something new takes about 30minutes
(depending on what to teach offcourse)
My other dog (a 7year old staffordshire terrier-mix) is a bit
slower in learning, but he is used to me calling him a "bad
dog"whenever he did something i didn't want him to do, or
it might be the age.
Sometimes it looks like Sam (the lab) WANTS to learn
something new: he wants me to bring along the can
filled with washers whenever we go for a walk. It is a
very "humane" way of teaching: the dog is allways a
"good dog", and never a "bad dog"
There is nu punishment or prong-collars involved.
For a fact i tought him to heel in 15min's without
beeing on a leach at-all !!! When he spotted a dog,
he used to run towards it, but now i tought him to "ask
permission" first, and to my surprise it worked!
My dogs never went to puppy-training (lucky for them),
maybe this helped too.
Manual can be found at http://www.doggydoright.com/id3.html
-- Hennie van Dalen www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11/fotografie/doggy-pictures/
"Ted Rumple" <rumpl...@kalbar.net> wrote in message
news:30aa784b.03092...@posting.google.com...
>
> Jerry, I am forever in your debt. The system you have
> created for training dogs is absolutely amazing!
>
> I can't wait until the new version is available for human
> children!
>
> Thank you for your service to humanity!
flick
<snipped>
> It's a matter of priorities. With any behavior problem, the owner has to make
> a decision between training and management. For many behavior problems,
> management is the most expedient solution. For example, at this time I would
> prefer to put the garbage up when I leave the house than attempt to train three
> dogs to leave it alone when I'm not home. Very easy management solution,
> time-consuming and tricky training solution.
I did that, too. Put the trash can up on the counter.
It worked until we got a huge St. Bernard.
Now it's on top of the fridge ;-).
flick 100785
flick
<snipped>
> As I expected, once Holly was allowed to rejoin the household, she was
> contrite and eager for affection. And I royally laid it on, too. She
> did not want to leave my side after that.
Sounds like she wanted back in the pack, and was going
to be extra sweet and subservient to get there.
> Holly is about 3-1/2 now, and I will get another dog in about 2 years.
> My hope is that Holly will help me train by example. Right now I have
> a 14-year-old lab/retriever who I am caring for... he's in great shape
> and easy to have around, but not as wary and tuned-in as Holly is.
> Very subtly, she has taught him what she knows -- i.e., the limits of
> the safe zone around the house. He wouldn't "run off," but he might
> wander onto the public road that fronts this lot. But Holly runs an
> orbit around him and sort of steers him the right way, toward the
> woods in back. She has almost become like an extension of my own will
> on certain matters.
What a Good Dog. She's herding the other dog - maybe
because he's the household's possession? Or maybe she
thinks if *she* can't go into the road, she won't allow
him to?
flick 100785
The Puppy Wizard
Cc's for EMBARRASSMENT FACTOR:
ce...@virginia.edu;
dfrnt...@aol.com;
bali_u...@yahoo.com;
ge...@thegateway.net
"Leah" <> wrote in message
news:20041118123759...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> >ceb wrote:
>
> >Do you think that's always true?
Ooops!
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> > It seems like the "high independence" type
> >dogs (which most terriers would fall into,
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
A Dog Is A Dog As A Kat Is A Kat As A
Birdie Is A Birdie As A Child Is A Child As A
SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.
ALL Critters Only Respond In PREDICTABLE INNATE
NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
> > and certainly JRTs would)
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
> > just are never 100% recall-proofed.
THAT'S on accHOWENT of you CAN'T get
a 100% RELIABLE COME COMMAND if
you jerk and choke dogs on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars and bribe and lock them
in boxes and try an get HOWET callin THAT, trainin.
> Oh, only the Aibo can be 100% recall-proofed. :}
Sez you, a lying dog abusing mental case, leah.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard REQUIRES HIS 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students to INSTALL a 100% RELIABLE COME
command as a CONDITIONED REFLEX, leah.
You don't know NUTHIN abHOWET, that.
> But you can shoot for the high 90s.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
> If you're persistent and patient enough,
"NEARLY INSTANTLY," leah. OR YOU AIN'T
FOLLOWIN THE METHOD on accHOWENT of:
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> I think you can train a dog to do anything
> he's physically capable of doing.
You trained your RECENT GRADUATE Rottie
to RECENTLY MURDER a little innocent DEAD
DOG at the park and your other STUDENT'S
dogs to MURDER her DEAD HOWES kat.
And your own kat has been LOCKED IN A BOX
for over WON YEAR on accHOWENT of you can't
TRAIN YOUR OWN DOGS not to MURDER HER
if you ain't standing there ready to HURT INTIMIDATE
BRIBE and lock them in the crapper for a TIME HOWET.
> > There are always times when they will do
> > what they want if you don't have physical
> > control of them.
IOW, you don't know HOWE to TRAIN a dog, leah.
> > And when you have high independence combined
> > with a highly instinctual task (such as a JRT with
> > a rodent),
You mean like HOWE if you got a MENTAL
CASE makin EXXXCUSES for NOT havin
the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunning
of the domestic puppy dog.
> > the likelihood that the dog will listen to his/her
> >person seems to go down considerably.
THAT'S INSANE.
> Absolutely.
BWEEEEEAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
We don't BLAME THE DOG noMOORE, leah.
ALL behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> It would be a real training challenge to have
> a jrt with a reliable recall off a rodent.
THAT'S INSANE, leah. THAT'S what Lee was
trying to teach you, but you ain't got the INTELLECT
to FIGGER IT HOWET no matter HOWE many
different ways The Amazing Puppy Wizard and
all HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students REPORT RIGHT HERE.
YOU CALL THEM LIARS.
REMEMBER, leah?
> But it's not impossible.
Would you BET YOUR LIFE on that?
Would you BET that little DEAD DOG in
the park and that DEAD bunny's and
culprit's DEAD KAT on THAT, leah?
> > Or do you think this happens just because
> > an owner tolerates it?
This happens on accHOWENT of you MENTAL
CASES can't stop HURTING INTIMIDATING
BRIBING and LOCKING YOUR DOGS IN BOXES.
> I don't think the average owner wants to make
> the time and energy commitment it takes to learn
> how to achieve this level of training,
It only takes The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students abHOWET WON HOWER to LEARN HOWE
to do it EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY IN WON
HOWER to TRAIN their dogs to a RELIABLE come command.
> never mind go for it.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> Can't blame 'em.
THAT'S on accHOWENT of you GOT NO METHOD, leah.
> It's a matter of priorities.
NO. Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK, leah. It's a MATTER
that EVERY THING you think you know abHOWET
dogs trainin and behavior is DEAD WRONG.
> With any behavior problem, the owner
> has to makea decision between training
> and management.
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
O.K. Tell us HOWE to train marie's dog Macula
NOT to C-HOWENTER SURF withHOWET lockin
IT in a box and hiding the weenie, leah?
YOU CAN'T.
THAT'S on accHOWENT of you MANAGE to
HIDE THE WEENIE and AVOID behavior
problems you ain't got the INTELLECT to
HOWEtwit even after The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD
WORLD TOLD YOU HOWE THEY DONE
IT EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and
FOR FREE, to boot.
YOU CALL THEM LIARS on accHOWENT of
IF The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method WORKS
as REPORTED, then YOU'RE HOWETA BUSINESS.
You're a FRAUD a LIAR a DOG ABUSER a COWARD
and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURALE MENTAL CASE:
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.
> For many behavior problems, management
> is the most expedient solution.
THAT'S INSANE.
ALL temperament and behavior problems
can be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY if you
know HOWE on accHOWENT of:
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> For example, at this time I would prefer to
> put the garbage up when I leave the house
> than attempt to train three dogs to leave it
> alone when I'm not home.
Takes MINUTES to TRAIN the dog not to
EAT POISON, if you stop HURTING and
INTIMDIATING and BRIBING and AVOIDING
it, leah:
From: Margaret Hoffman
Subject: Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe
I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it
incredible.
I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about
one year. It truly does work - at least on my Dobe, Chelsea.
Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed
attempts at obedience training, both in a "class"
environment and with a personal trainer.
She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately,
spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our
dog.
We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not
only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally
work with Chelsea.
His methods are wonderful and effective.
Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn't
dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her,
she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter,
pulled me incessantly on the leash.
She is calmer and we are all happier.
Well, it is a very long story and I won't bore you with
all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe
saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman
P.S. You can send me the reward money,
but I won't sell you my DDR!
> Very easy management solution,
The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ you're a FRAUD.
> time-consuming and tricky training solution.
Took a few minutes to break Chelsea from an
EIGHT YEAR HABIT of C-HOWENTER SURFIN, leah.
> (Let me take that back - train TWO dogs.
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> I'm certain it's Kenzie and Murphy,
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> not Madigan.
Would you BET YOUR LIFE on that?
You haven't forgotten Madigan's POSSESSION
AGGRESSION problem, have you, leah?
> She has shown no interest in garbage since adolescence.
You mean, sinch she BIT YOU a couple days
after your two week POSSESSION AGGRESSION
classes on your PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE
collar.
REMEMBER, leah?
> Knows it's a permanent "leave it" object.)
OR YOU'LL HURT HER someMOORE.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> The OP with the deer-thug dogs has a harder decision.
ALL behaviors are the SAME SAME.
It's NO different trainin marie's dog not to
C-HOWENTER SURF than trainin the other
dogs not to chase deer.
UNFORTUNATELY, you'll NEVER learn
HOWE to train your own dogs on accHOWENT
of you're a lying dog abusing mental case, leah.
> Management would require that the
> dogs be leashed when out romping.
On accHOWENT of you know you
CAN'T TRAIN a dog NOT to attack
a DEER by offerin IT a WEENIE, leah.
You're a FRAUD, leah.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard is fixin to
PUT YOU HOWETA this BUSINESS, leah.
> If running free works well for them in all
> circumstances when there are no deer,
> then the OP may want to consider training
> a solid recall as a solution.
That so, leah? You think tellin the dog to
come EVERY TIME a distraction comes
up will train the dog not to go to the
distraction when you ain't there to call IT
away from the distraction, leah?
You're INSANE.
> Since a solid recall is important in
> any case, that's what I'd recommend here.
Yeah. But you CAN'T GET a 100% RELIABLE
COME COMMAND or that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie wouldn't of RECENTLY MURDERED
that little innocent DEAD DOG in the park, thanks
to your SOCIALIZATION and PAW PATROL classes
since IT was TEN WEEKS OLD.
REMEMBER?
> Tough one,
Yeah? You think THAT was as TOUGH as your
OTHER STUDENT who's dogs MURDERED
her own PET HOWES BUNNY whom they'd
been RAISED with and was FINE with till you
started TRAININ them, leah?
> but certainly easier than teaching a jrt to recall off a
rodent. :}
You're full of crap, leah. You're a FRAUD
a DOG ABUSER a LIAR and MENTAL CASE.
> Canine Action Dog Trainer
> http://www.canineaction.com
From: TooCool (larr...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method
I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.
The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.
It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a
logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same
logically consistent manner.
Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.
One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is not
a
bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system for not
only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.
When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.
You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).
Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.
What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.
At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.
Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.
Is Jerry a nut?
It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based upon
their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply
when he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding
or hurting dogs.
More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.
I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?
Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.
Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.
Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.
Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.
If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet little
Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little gremlin
(anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry
The Puppy Wizard
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041117100612...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> > fl...@starband.net wrote:
>
> >Leah, I can't help but wonder if Charlie's punishment did work.
You COULD say it WORKED on accHOWENT of
charlie's dog didn't ESCAPE again. UNLESS of
curse, charlie began pupperly handling and trainin
his dog Holly, but that'd be HOWETA the question,
givin charlie's recent past case history.
> > He ostracized the dog from the pack,
> >withheld food and kicked it out of the den.
charlie's dog Holly ran HOWET on him on accHOWENT
of charlie BROKE THE RULEZ of apupriate handling.
> >Maybe that made his dog more likely to stay closer to
> >both, more dependent, once she was allowed back.
Maybe pigs will fly. Maybe charlie's dog wouldn't
of been able to be FORCED off her pupperty had
charlie FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS in his
FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
> >Though I'm sure she doesn't connect her
> > wandering off and the punishment.
Then HOWE else can you EXXXPLAIN it?
LUCK?
> I thought about that.
"Luck is for SUCKERS," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
> It is even possible that the traumatic
> experience caused a mild separation anxiety.
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> So in that perspective, it may have worked.
THAT'S INSANE.
> >It isn't a technique I'd go for, either, btw.
Of CURSE not! flick SHOCKS and CHOKES her dogs
and MURDERS the WONS she's AFRAID to HURT
and INTIMIDATE someMOORE.
> No, and I don't think Charlie would now either. :}
As miserably as charlie has handled his dog since
READING donaldson and trying to BRIBE his dog
and LHOWESED her up, Holly IS WAS and ALWAYS
WILL BE better trained than ANY of your dogs, EVER.
> Before I knew better,
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> I did some horrendous things to "punish
> my dogs for their own good."
You still do. But NHOWE you LIE abHOWET it.
> I certainly can't judge somebody else for it,
"You're JUDGED BY the company you keep," The
Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
> as long as they're willing to learn.
"When you lie with PIGS you'll awaken STINKIN
like 'm," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
> Up until a relatively short while ago,
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's
And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> family pet training common knowledge was
> non-existent other than the "old wives' tales"
> handed down from generation to generation
> (i.e., rub your dog's nose in his mistakes).
Or lock IT in a box and bribe IT.
> I used to chase after my dog for running off,
> yell at him and slap him all the way home,
> and then give him a time out for a couple of hours.
But NHOWE that you're a EXXXPERT trainer you
jerk and choke your dog on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar and GL neck twister and LIE abHOWET it.
> I had to be strict, he could get killed on the streets!
THAT'S The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, leah.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good
of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those
who torment us for our own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis.
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon.
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he
enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by
wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who
perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then? The love and
hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise
from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct
the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
permission from His FREE copy of my FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual.
Force training JERRYIZES dogs, and GETS THEM DEAD.
> Gee, I wonder why he never came when I called him?
For the same same reason your dogs today will
NOT come when you call them unless you got
a cooke and NO DISTRACTIONS and NO ESCAPE.
> Must be because he was stubborn!
"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon.
> Sigh.
> And I'd have been shocked and appalled if
> anybody had called me cruel.
Naaah. You'd CALL THEM A LIAR despite the EVIDENCE.
> I could shoot myself. :}
Well, that'd be INSANE. Wouldn't it.
"Speech is a mirror of the soul: as a man speaks, so is he."
Publilius Syrus, First century B.C., Maxim 1073
"We are what we do."
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
> Canine Action Dog Trainer
> http://www.canineaction.com
You're FINISHED in this business you
miserable lying dog abusing FRAUD.
The Puppy Wizard
"Scoop" <bali_u...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7d3164c7.04111...@posting.google.com...
> dfrnt...@aol.com (Leah) wrote in message
news:<20041116220736...@mb-m19.aol.com>...
>
> Interesting post.
CuriHOWES ain't it, The Amazing Puppy Wizard
SEZ leah is blowin smoke up HOWER arses.
> But out of purely academic interest,
Perhaps you should review the CASE HISTORYS
in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives on Google,
Scoop? It's ALL in there. You'll SEE CONSISTENT
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS reported by ALL The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Student's from all over
the Whole Wild World.
leah and her PALS call them LIARS and FORGERIES
by The Amazing Puppy Wizard. Their INTENT is to
DEFEND their alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE
and BRIBE CRATE and MURDER dogs for the behaviors
of the domestic puppy dog they don't have the INTELLECT
to HOWEtwit.
> what do you do with a dog who's convinced that
> nothing he could do with you is more fun than what
> he's doing?
That's SHEER IDIOCY.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard teaches HIS 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students HOWE to install an INSTANT reliable come
or ANY command as a conditional reflex.
Ask leah and her cronies abHOWET that.
They'll tell you IT CAN'T BE DONE.
> My Jack Russell recently died at 21 -- had slowed
> down incredibly the last few years of his life. But
> when he was young (up until about 15) if he got
> vermin cornered somewhere he couldn't get at them,
> he would bark and hover around until i came and
> physically removed him.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual teaches you
HOWE to train ALL dogs for ALL behaviors NEARLY
INSTANTLY.
But you don't have to BELIEVE THAT.
> He knew he was being called,
You didn't know HOWE to train your dog.
> knew what I wanted,
You didn't know HOWE to train your dog.
> but wasn't that interested in this instance.
You didn't know HOWE to train your dog.
> I could literally wave a steak at him
You CANNOT train a dog to come by bribing him.
> and he'd stick with the rabbit or whatever it was.
On accHOWENT of you didn't know HOWE to train your dog.
> When he was young I did work with him a fair deal,
You didn't know HOWE to train your dog.
> but of course the answer is clearly that I didn't
> work with him enough,
You "worked with him" TOO MUCH. You didn't know
HOWE to train your dog. If you DID know HOWE to
TRAIN your dog he'd LEARN to DO IT NEARLY INSTANTLY.
> or I did a lousy job.
You didn't know HOWE to train your dog.
> Or, put better, maybe I didn't work with him smart enough.
You was LIED to by the EXXXPERTS who
didn't know HOWE to train your dog.
> So what do you do in these sorts of cases?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard IDENTIFIES EXXXPOSES
and DISCREDITS them pubicly and teaches HIS 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students all over the Whole Wild World HOWE to
TRAIN THEIR DOGS NEARLY INSTANTLY.
You'll read their CASE HISTORYS in The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's Archives on Google. Your EXXXPERT
PALS HERE abHOWETS call them LIARS and jerk
and choke and shock and bribe and lock their dogs
in boxes and call The Amazing Puppy Wizard INSANE.
Well, that's on accHOWENT of HE knows HOWE
to train ALL DOGS NEARLY INSTANTLY withHOWET
HURTING THEM.
The EXXXPERTS KNOW otherWIZE.
BWEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> I could never figure out was the intermediate
> step in this instance,
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's INTERMEDIATE
STEP is to teach the EXXXPERTS the HOWETA
BUSINESS command, Scoop.
> short of trying to look like a bunny myself.
Try makin CHIMPANZEE S-HOWENDS and doin
the MONKEY MACARENA the next time your dog
fixates on a rat:
Ain't hard to do:
"spin around and start skipping in the
other direction, making chimpanzee
sounds.
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
"Your goal is going to be to teach your dog
that every time he sees another dog, something
good is going to happen.
So as soon as he notices another dog,
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
you begin to praise like mad and stuff his
face with hot dogs. When the dog is out
of sight, the praise and treats stop."
SEE?
O.K., NHOWE YOU TRY?
> > Canine Action Dog Trainer
> > http://www.canineaction.com
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.
(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").
Full moon.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.
YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.
> I will always remember the dogs.
Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
You hurt intimidate and murder critters, leah.
Really Bad Day
Date: 2004-03-21 17:34:07 PST
HOWEDY leah,
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF> wrote in message
news:20040321194728...@mb-m15.aol.com...
>
> The mom of a graduate student
BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You're no dog trainer, you're a FRAUD.
> interrupted my class,
Class??? You don't have trainin classes you
teach people to throw treats to dogs for mindless
unthinking behaviors and tell folks to jerk and
choke and shock dogs when bribing and avoiding
behaviors doesn't work an then you try to get HOWET
callin THAT, trainin.
> in a state of shock,
AnyWON who'd trust you to train them to handle
their dog was in a state of shock or takin anti psychotic
meds before they started.
> to tell me that her rottie had killed a little
> dog at a dog park today.
Tough break. R.I.P., dog.
-----------------------
I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying.
"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."
Like a confessor Priest?
"With him,
words play no torturing tricks.........., "
--John Galsworthy.
Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
our words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Sionnach
"Leah" wrote:
>
> When my students complain that they lose their puppies as soon as they see
a
> squirrel, I deadpan, "Well, you have to be more interesting than the
squirrel."
And if your students have properly bred Jack Russells, that's literally
impossible.
> So to take these principles and train a jrt to recall off a mouse, you
would
> need to get very creative about your proofing.
Or, if you know what your're doing with a working-bred terrier, you teach
the dog that there are consequences for not listening. Of course, that STILL
means that the dog has to hear you, which may not happen if the dog's intent
on prey (and trust me, a clicker is NOT the answer).
Sionnach
> dogs (which most terriers would fall into, and certainly JRTs would) just
> are never 100% recall-proofed.
There are always times when they will do
> what they want if you don't have physical control of them.
Bingo.
And when you
> have high independence combined with a highly instinctual task (such as a
> JRT with a rodent), the likelihood that the dog will listen to his/her
> person seems to go down considerably.
To be more precise, the likeilhood that they will even be aware that
they're being CALLED will go down.
>
> Or do you think this happens just because an owner tolerates it?
Nope. It happens because JRTs are BRED not only to work independently, but
to persist in working prey until it either bolts or is dug down to.
It IS possible to teach them recalls and call-offs, but it's never 100%,
and the intelligent JRT owner is very careful about *where* the dog is
allowed off-leash.
Sionnach
"Leah" wrote:
> Absolutely. It would be a real training challenge to have a jrt with a
> reliable recall off a rodent. But it's not impossible.
For the record, Leah, would you mind telling me exactly how many JRTs you
know that have a reliable OFF-LEASH recall off of prey? Mine - who is one of
the best-trained and best-socialized JRTs anyone could ever meet - has a
reliable recall, but where small prey is concerned, that generally means she
comes back with the corpse in her mouth.
Among other things, it only takes a few seconds for a JRT to kill most
rodents.
> If running free works well for them
> in all circumstances when there are no deer, then the OP may want to
consider
> training a solid recall as a solution. Since a solid recall is important
in
> any case, that's what I'd recommend here.
Leah, I think you need to learn the difference between a recall and a
call-off.
(Also, which OP are you talking about? The OP in this thread is looking for
an alarm/guard dog on fenced property, and I don't recall him mentioning a
problem with deer-running.)
>
> Tough one, but certainly easier than teaching a jrt to recall off >.a
rodent. :}
Actually, it's about the same thing.
cmelenyzer
"GeneS" <ge...@thegateway.net> wrote in message
news:8opmd.4817$Pd2.1...@monger.newsread.com...
> I would like to get your opinions about which dog would
> be the best choice to purchase,
I would highly recommend a boxer. They're homebodies, love kids, and look
mean from a distance, but won't eat you out of house and home.
and where to find the dog.
Call the Austin Boxer club, they'll have somebody that saves boxers.
> 1. The dog will be around children from 1 to 12 years old.
I have three grandkids with a boxer that outweighs each one of them, and he
won't even run into them.
> 3. The dog should bark & cause any intruder to pause.
The barking can be trained into the dog. My boxers sometime give my friends
pause.
> 4. There are coyotes that come up to eat a cat from time to time.
I've got coyotes as well, they don't mess with mine.
> 5. It would be best if the dog would stay around the house most
> of the time, and not take hikes into the woods.
Try an "invisable fence" It only takes a couple of lessons with a smart dog.
> 6. Not sure if it is better to buy a puppy, or an older dog that has
> been trained.
If you've got cats already, I'd start with a pup.
> 7. If dogs are "smart", them we want a smart one. Not sure how
> one determines intelligence.
I've oft times said if mine were any smarter, they'de want me to buy 'em a
car.
> THANKS,
You're Welcome
Charlie
> Gene ---> ge...@thegateway.net
>
>
>
Leah
>> When my students complain that they lose their puppies as soon as they see
>a
>> squirrel, I deadpan, "Well, you have to be more interesting than the
>squirrel."
> And if your students have properly bred Jack Russells, that's literally
>impossible.
The point is that it's literally impossible for any breed, unless the dog has
been heavily and purposefully proofed to ignore small furry running creatures.
Which is why I finish my statement by telling my beginner puppy students that
they need to run up a tree chittering, like I said in the original post. :}
---
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
Leah
> For the record, Leah, would you mind telling me exactly how many JRTs you
>know that have a reliable OFF-LEASH recall off of prey?
None. But I don't believe it's across-the-board impossible to achieve, do you?
If they can train wild animals to come to the bars of their cage and
voluntarily spread out their paws so their nails can be trimmed, I believe any
animal can be trained to do just about anything.
The Puppy Wizard
your shock fence?
"cmelenyzer" <clm...@world-net.net> wrote in message
news:419d631d$0$91009$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
The Puppy Wizard
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041118233413...@mb-m21.aol.com...
> >"Sionnach" rhyf...@msn.com wrote:
>
> >> When my students complain that they lose
> >> their puppies as soon as they see a squirrel,
> >> I deadpan, "Well, you have to be more interesting
> >> than the squirrel."
>
> > And if your students have properly bred Jack Russells,
A dog is a dog.
> > that's literally impossible.
It's IMPOSSIBLE for a dog abusing mental
case to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic
puppy dog.
> The point is that it's literally impossible for any breed,
A dog is a dog.
> unless the dog has been heavily and purposefully
> proofed to ignore small furry running creatures.
That's INSANE.
Firstly, you CANNOT "PROOF" a behavior PRYOR
to TRAININ the behavior. Like C-HOWENTER SURFIN
or POO EATIN and GARBAGE BIN RAIDING, you got
NO METHOD of TRAINING the dog.
When you "ADVANCE" to your "PROOFING" all
you're doin is HURTIN the dog for a behavior YOU
have FAILED to TRAIN the dog to do or not do.
Your using TOO MANY WORDS again, leah.
You CANNOT PROOF a behavior till it's TRAINED.
By your own POSTED CASE HISTORY you got
NO METHOD to train a dog not to do those behaviors.
> Which is why I finish my statement by telling
> my beginner puppy students that they need to
> run up a tree chittering, like I said in the original post. :}
Which is EXXXACTLY where you'll be
FHOWEND lookin for your arse.
> Canine Action Dog Trainer
> http://www.canineaction.com
HOWE do you get a WON armed IDIOT
HOWETA a tree?: wave to him.
HOWEDY People,
Here's HOWE COME HOWER DOG LOVERS CAN'T
POST here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE:
From: sionnach (rhyf...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
>
> And Sally responded:
>
> >Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> >that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
> >
> >Sally Hennessey
>
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Tke it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
> across the room!
>
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
> 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer-given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the loose
skin at the back of the neck and give a slight shake to
the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking the puppy,
which I think we ALL agree is abusive.
Aggression, Opposition And Allelomimetic Behavior -
Teaching RESPECT For Your HIGHER INTELLIGENCE -
"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS!!!"
Here's professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: new puppy bitting/chewing hands
Date: 1999/07/05
In article
<976F54CA8C2C77AB.9DF24592...@lp.airnews.net
> Jason <asl...@removethisline.geocities.com> writes:
:
> I would assume that all puppies like to bite and chew
> on just about anything. How do you train a young
> puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet? Although
> there is a time and place for saying 'no' and giving
> the dog a scruff shake I do no know if this is appropriate
> at this age.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral
function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy
by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency
of the biting decreases then you will have achieved
too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has
decreased; and two, you have established "No"
as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted biting.
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before
mild forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's
mouth closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad
Dog" came before stronger punishement (the
kind discussed above).
My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually
sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to
stop a behavior.
"Bad Dog" ALWAYS works.
then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog" when
he is appropriately behaving.
In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement
as in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement,
timing is very important.
Use these consquences to control behavior much
as in the game where a child is told "your getting hot"
or "your getting cold." If the delay between the behavior
and the consquence is too long then the behavior will
not appropriately change.
--Marshall
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Update on Puppy Biting
Date: 1999/06/14
In article <37675817...@news3.bga.com>
clayn@NO_JUNKdillonet.com
writes:
:
> My previous thread seems to have deteriorated
> off topic, but I would still like some input on
> biting and aggressive behavior. To recount I
> have a Chow/Lab mix who is now 9 weeks old.
> The biggest problem I had with him is biting.
:
> This could have been when petting him, walking
> by, or when playing. This seems to be his way of
> playing or getting attention, but it can drive me nuts.
>
> To stop this I've distracted with chew toys,
Distraction can be a BIG mistake! Why? Because if
your manipulation of the chew toy is reinforcing then
you are inadvertently reinforcing your dog for biting if
you follow his biting with activating the chew toy.
The standard way to curtail biting is to either "yelp
loudly," "clamp the dog's mouth shut with your hand,"
or "pick him up by the scruff of his neck" and say "no"
whenever he bites.
All of these are punishment procedures and
to work they must be put into place promptly,
within say .5 sec, after the bite.
Isolating the dog after a bite is another form
of punishment called time-out (from reinforcement
but it is hard to rapidly implement--within .5
sec of a bite.
If one of these procedures does not work, that is,
your dog behaves as if it were a game, then you
are not using an effective punisher/procedure.
> I said NO, and failing that put him in my room
> alone for a few min. When in there he barks
> and whines, but afterwards behaves much better.
> After about a week of this the biting has decreased
> remarkably, but hasn't stopped outright. Still does it
> when he gets into hyper Puppy Jihad mode.
Well, be patient.
You can, of course, use differential reinforcement
of other behavior to eliminate biting. If there is a
situation in which your dog often bites. then create
the situation and if your dog goes without biting for
1 sec. offer a reinforcer (click and treat if you use
a clicker).
Then gradually increase the time that your dog
must go without biting for the reinforcer to be
delivered. Eventually, your dog will not bite and
the other behaviors that you have been reinforcing
will be more frequent.
Another factor to consider is whether your dog
is getting sufficient exercise.
Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.
Best wishes,
Marshall
=========================
> Date: 1999/07/05
> Marshall Dermer wrote:
>
>> In article
<976F54CA8C2C77AB.9DF24592...@lp.airnews.net
> Jason <asl...@removethisline.geocities.com> writes:
>>
>> > I would assume that all puppies like to bite and chew
>> > on just about anything. How do you train a young
>> > puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet? Although
>> > there is a time and place for saying 'no'
SHORE!~ If you want the dog to OPPOSE you.
>> > and giving the dog a scruff shake I do no
>> > know if this is appropriate at this age.
We shove fingers dHOWEN puppy's throats to choke
them HOWETA mHOWETHING from the time they're
in the litter box, ACCORDING TO lying frosty dahl,
sindy SADIST mooreon, lyingdogDUMMY, lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, ed w of PET LOSS dot CON,
and company.
Hello doc,
You seem to be real good with all the big words
and stuff, but you are failing dog behavior 101.
The obvious negative consequences of
the abusive advice you have given Jason
is likely to have a major negative impact
on his dog and his family as a result of
your failure to understand what we have
been discussing here.
>> At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral
>> function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy
>> by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency
>> of the biting decreases then you will have achieved
>> too things.
This will achieve violating the trust and respect you
need to develop to make your dog NATURALLY
WANTdo anything you ask. The MonkeysofNotso
NewSkeete are a bunch of heavy handed gorillas
when it comes to dog training.
Their methods are barbaric and outdated by current
information. But they do have a nicely edited text with
lots of pretty pictures. They specialize in GSD's, a
breed known to tolerate heavy handed treatment from
their owners.
>> First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has
>> decreased; and two, you have established "No"
>> as a conditioned punisher.
Not necessarily, doc. Allelomimetic behavior dictates
the dog will copy your actions and attitudes.
Remember?
What you are teaching the dog is HOWE you want him
to respond back to you in the future. People who abuse
their dogs as puppies usually face aggressive challenges
when the dog is more mature.
Are you going to have some good suggestions if
the dog decides to do that with one of Jason's kids
WON day?
That's what you'd be responsible for...
That's HOWE COME I'm here.
Seems to me that a dog trainer who needs to resort
to fear, force, intimidation and confrontation is hardly
able to outsmart the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.
Nice work getting your degree, but cause you pay the
price doesn't insure you're able to use your head. You
do seem to be a lazy student, though.
>> How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
>> minimum necessary to
TEACH GENTLENESS, LOVE, TRUST
and RESPECT, professor?
To DEMONSTRATE SELF DISCIPLINE, professor?
>> decrease the unwanted biting.
Nothin you suggest is acceptable under
ANY circumstances. Violence is not
subjective. We do not quantify HOWE
much abuse we shall administer today.
That is sick and disgusting.
Furthermore, a human being is not a mother dog. We
cannot compete with them on their level effectively. Mom
dogs abuse their puppies just like HOWE they're taught
by their abusive moms and handlers. Puppy bitches
CHALLENGE and FIGHT with mom and sibling bitches.
That's all part of NATURE'S PLAN to prevent inbreeding.
>> When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before
>> mild forms of punishment
And your dog is NHOWE DYING ON YOU
as a RESULT of the constant stress of
varialbly reinforced punishment.
>> (I would hold my dog's mouth closed for a few seconds.)
To teach it to RELAX, TRUST and NOT TO GRAB you...
>> whereas "Bad Dog" came
From your fear, anger, ignorance, descartean
university trainin and colossal ego, professor.
>> before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
The kind of PUNISHMENT that teaches unconditional
love, gentleness trust and RESPECT for your HIGHER
INTELLIGENCE, LEADERSHIP, CARING, and your
measure of self control and confidence, professor?
In the past thirty years of my professional dog training
career, punishment has not ever been used on any of
the dogs I've worked.
Punishment causes misery. Misery causes aversion to
the handler, not the behavior. The dog will not want to
be the best he can for you under punitive situations.
Confrontation, physical force, intimidation cause
STRESS and ANXIETY which are not conducive
to the learning situation. They may result in similar
symptoms to post traumatic stress disorder.
>> My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually sufficient
>> but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to stop a behavior. "Bad
>> Dog" ALWAYS works.
Yeah. It's causes Maxie to have OCD'S and LIFE
THREATENING, STRESS INDUCED AUTO-
IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME.
>> I then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog"
>> when he is appropriately behaving.
You mean, AFTER THE FACT.
My dogs never do things requiring discipline, they
have obviated those behaviors through the process
of learning, not through the process of being corrected.
People who use force and confrontation on their dogs
are constantly having to address behavior problems
that manifest as a result of the punished behavior being
trainsferred to other substitute behaviors.
That's one of the many subtitles of dog behavior
the good doc needs to learn a little more about.
>> In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement
>> as in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement,
>> timing is very important.
Timing is everything. There is never any time that
punishment is justifiable. Not ever. It is unnecessary
and creates other behavior problems when it does
not work.
Your risk of causing the dog to turn on its owners
by the age of eighteen months is roughly ten percent.
Those are the dogs that I work with very often. Their
stories are all the same. The people followed the advice
of the Monks or Koehler and used all the group classes
for months to control escalating malbehaviors and pushed
it to the point where the dog is aggressive with the family.
I'm F'n tired of seeing that happen.
That's HOWE COME I'm here.
I'm here to tell you you got another think coming.
You are dead wrong and dogs and people die
unnecessarily as a result of those kinds of handling
methods.
>> Use these consquences to control behavior much
>> as in the game where a child is told "your getting
>> hot" or "your getting cold." If the delay between the
>> behavior and the consquence is too long then the
>> behavior will not appropriately change.
Your getting colder. You've got time, stick around,
maybe some good information will rub off on you.
>> --Marshall
>> I have listed below, in rank order, ( 1 = "The Best")
>> my favorite sources.
That will serve as an INDICTMENT of their INFORMATION.
Is it any wonder that the following sig file has
generated more complaints to my personal
email than any other controversial post I have
made to date, bar none?:
If you have to do things to your dog to train him,
that you would rather not have to do, then you
shouldn't be doing them. If you have a dog trainer
that tells you to jerk your dog around, shock, or
punish him in any manner, that corrections are
appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the
punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or
they can't train your dog to do what you want, look
for a trainer that knows Howe.
1. Overall, K. L. (1997). _Clinical behavioral medicine for small
animals._ St.Louis: Mosby
Professor Overall has earned many degrees (MS,
VMD, PhD) and is certified by the Animal Behavior
Society as an Applied Animal Behaviorist.
See "Hole Diggin."
2. Diane Blackman's Fun with Your Dog:
Diane has compiled "tons" of information about dogs.
This work in progress reveals Diane's tremendous love
and respect for dogs.
Master Of Deception blankman is a liar and dog
abuser and active long term incurable MENTAL
CASE. She beats her dog in the face with a
shepherd's crook and jerks and chokes them
on pronged spiked pinch choke collars and shocks
and sprays aversives in their faces.
3. Prof.Mark Plonsky's Fabulous Site:
Mark's site has won numerous awards. It is VERY complete.
Yeah. He's your associate at UofWI. His site endorses
the most viciHOWES methods on the WWW.
4. Frequently Asked Questions
Cindy Tittle Moore has written the "classic" Usenet source for
information about pets.
sindy SADIST mooreon has been banned from two
obedience clubs. Only redeemin quality she's got
is SHE DOESN'T LIE to DEFEND HER ABUSE.
She sez NUTHIN and continues HURTIN dogs
with her PARTNER lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
5. Karen Pryor's Web Site:
Discover clicker training and training resources.
Clicker training is apositive approach!
karen pryor KILLED HER KAT cause she couldn't
C/T it not to piss and shit in her stove top. Clicker
training INCREASES ANXIETY and can cause
OCD behavior problems AND seizures, adn FAILS
10% of the time soon as the animal can find access
to FOOD.
Also check out this URL for more on clicker training:
6. Gary Wilkes's Click & Treat Web Site:
Much excellent training information.
Yeah? You was highly impressed with gary's new
development: "DELAYED PUNISHMENT".
<snip BUNK>
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.
And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:
> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY
TIME The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer,
33 Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her coment above
regarding her success with The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy
Separation Anxiety / Bed Time Calming Technique (STSA/BTCT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."
You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?
Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?
Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her
Ear," sionnach.
Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context,
because you are full of bizarro manure."
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you
should knee the dog in the chest, step on
its toes, throw him down by his ears and
climb all over it like a raped ape growling
into his throat and bite IT on his ears, or
leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with
the heel of your palm.
"BethF" <da...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:ugc7us3...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Frank" <flma...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:d2f1624e.02061...@posting.google.com...
> > dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
news:<20020610173326...@mb-fx.aol.com>...
> > > >"brianev" bri...@attbi.com wrote:
> > > > I ENJOYED reading your book, and
> > > > AGREED with what you had to say.
> > > > I find it sick to hear what people
> > > > do with their dogs.
>
> > > Keep in mind that everything he says that
> > > the regular posters of this ng do to their
> > > dogs are lies.
>
> > > All of it. Every last bit.
>
> > All of it?
> > Ear pinching?
> > Shock collars?
> > Spiked chokers?
> > The regulars lie more in their denials than
> > Howe does in his accusing of them.
:
> Uh, Frank? Who do you see denying anything?
> Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
> would see denials when everyone has Jerry
> killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
> let alone respond to them.
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?
matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.
Isn't that true, Marilyn?
Of course not, but THIS IS:
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...
> >Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular
> kind of training. If you are interested in
> training retrieval behavior than do
> consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
> Well-Mannered, Obedient and
> Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
> Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"
LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.
"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"
BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...
"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"
OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43...@earthlink.net>
rhur...@earthlink.net writes:
>> -snip headers etc.
>> Yes. you're right, I really should find
>> the book.. they don't have these books
>> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
>> do you find Koehler?
> I got a nice large print copy from
> Amazon.com
>Richard
Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:
Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.
Koehler Method Of Dog
Training by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,
=======================================
Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE and scream "NO!" into its face for 5
seconds:"
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."
Hanging
"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could
cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately
and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab.
Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.
As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned
problems the dog is suspended in mid-air.
However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.
The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.
When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
over on his side.
The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you
THE REAL "HOOD"
"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.
"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.
When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-
mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the
broken skins and broken hearts their
misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.
"With more genuine compassion for the
biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major
operation."
"Since we are presently concerned with
the dog that bites in resentment of the
demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later
chapter we will deal with the with the
much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."
Are we havin FUN yet?
Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
From: Paul B (NOSPAM...@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Get off the bed... please?
Date: 2001-07-03 03:05:59 PST
A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies to
every aspect of the relationship with your dog.
Paul.
--------------------------
The Puppy Wizard sez "A dog is a dog as a child
is a child. They only respond in PREDICTABLE
NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE
REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstances
of their environment which we create for them.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME SAME
SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
"Ted Rumple" <rumpl...@kalbar.net> wrote in message
news:30aa784b.03092...@posting.google.com...
>
> Jerry, I am forever in your debt. The system you have
> created for training dogs is absolutely amazing!
>
> I can't wait until the new version is available for human
> children!
>
> Thank you for your service to humanity!
ANAL-yize THIS, professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
******IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?*******
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."
THAT'S INSANE. AIN'T IT, professor dermer.
That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >
P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.
In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.
That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.
Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.
If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.
What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George
"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
> To: "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePupp...@earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, July
> 23, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
>
>
> Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
>
> I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
> and now must applaud your attempts to save
> animals from painful training procedures.
>
> You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
> who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
> alert the world to animal abuse.
>
> We are lucky to have you, and more people should
> come to their senses and support your valuable
> work.
>
> Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
> charity to fund your important work?
>
> Have you thought about holding a press conference
> so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
> and significant work?
>
> In closing, my only suggestion is that you
> try to keep your messages short for most
> readers may refuse to read a long message
> even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
>
> I wish you well in your endeavors.
>
> --Marshall Dermer
>
> Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior
> Analysis Specialty/Department of Psychology/
> University of Wisconsin- -Milwaukee/ Milwaukee,
> WI 53201
> der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
> --------------------------------------
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >
Sionnach
> >"Sionnach" rhyf...@msn.com wrote:
> > For the record, Leah, would you mind telling me exactly how many JRTs
you
> >know that have a reliable OFF-LEASH recall off of prey?
>
> None. But I don't believe it's across-the-board impossible to >achieve,
do you?
I think you should ask that question on one of the JRT lists - preferably
one of the ones where some of the members actually hunt with their dogs, or
allow them to. :-)
>
>
> If they can train wild animals to come to the bars of their cage and
> voluntarily spread out their paws so their nails can be trimmed, I believe
any
> animal can be trained to do just about anything.
That's not a very good comparison, IMO. What one can train a CAGED big
cat or wild canid to do isn't the same as being able to stop that same
animal from killing prey which is in front of it.
For that matter, Rocsi's quite good about letting me cut her nails, but if
there's a mouse in front of her....
Judy
news:3054cuF...@uni-berlin.de...
> Or, if you know what your're doing with a working-bred terrier, you
teach
> the dog that there are consequences for not listening. Of course, that
STILL
> means that the dog has to hear you, which may not happen if the dog's
intent
> on prey (and trust me, a clicker is NOT the answer).
The dog has to not only hear you but actually consider the consequences of
not reacting.
Given a dog with a thinking brain - even if they DO hear you, they are still
thinking about whether the consequences are dire enough to give up the
immediate reward of the prey.
And I swear they are capable of reasoning that if they can just get that
mouse in the next few seconds (which they are convinced they can do) that
they can then bring the corpse back to you thereby fulfilling both your
needs. And they are pretty sure that you don't really mean that they should
just abandon the cornered mouse *right now*. You just don't understand all
the details of the situation or you wouldn't be asking something so
ridiculous as calling them away right now.
It's not really a willful disobedience. They do want to please you. The
dog just believes he is thinking one step ahead of you. He knows what you
want and he knows what he wants and he's pretty sure that he's right and
you'll certainly see that if you just step back and look at it more clearly.
At least that's a miniature schnauzer.
greyhound
>>"Sionnach" rhyf...@msn.com wrote:
>
>>> When my students complain that they lose their puppies as soon as they see
>>a
>>> squirrel, I deadpan, "Well, you have to be more interesting than the
>>squirrel."
>
>> And if your students have properly bred Jack Russells, that's literally
>>impossible.
>
>The point is that it's literally impossible for any breed, unless the dog has
>been heavily and purposefully proofed to ignore small furry running creatures.
I don't think that was Sarah's point. I think you're very well aware
that all dogs are not alike. It is literally impossible, to use your
words, for some breeds/dogs with high prey drive to be "proofed" to
ignore small furry running creatures. It's hard-wired, it runs
through their veins, it's their very existence, to chase and kill
small furry running creatures.
>Which is why I finish my statement by telling my beginner puppy students that
>they need to run up a tree chittering, like I said in the original post. :}
Very amusing, but not terribly helpful in terms of educating people
about their breeds. It's not about interest. My high-prey dogs know
the difference between a squirrel and me runnning up a tree
chittering.
Mustang Sally
Gwen Watson
greyhound wrote:
It's hard-wired, it runs
> through their veins, it's their very existence, to chase and kill
> small furry running creatures.
What about the dogs whose very existence is to chase large
furry running critters like white tail deer. Well there is
a similarity in looks in a deer and a barbadoes sheep, ya know?
I couldn't call Blade off a deer if my life depended on it.
But then I admit I am not a very good trainer when it comes
to things that are hard wired, such as prey drive or
herding instincts.
>
>
>>Which is why I finish my statement by telling my beginner puppy students that
>>they need to run up a tree chittering, like I said in the original post. :}
>
>
> Very amusing, but not terribly helpful in terms of educating people
> about their breeds. It's not about interest. My high-prey dogs know
> the difference between a squirrel and me runnning up a tree
> chittering.
>
> Mustang Sally
My dogs would think I had completely lost my mind.
And they wouldn't be very amused, either.
Gwen
>
greyhound
wrote:
>
>
>greyhound wrote:
> It's hard-wired, it runs
>> through their veins, it's their very existence, to chase and kill
>> small furry running creatures.
>
>What about the dogs whose very existence is to chase large
>furry running critters like white tail deer.
IMO hard-wired is hard-wired, regardless of the size of the prey.
>But then I admit I am not a very good trainer when it comes
>to things that are hard wired, such as prey drive or
>herding instincts.
I'm not a great trainer period, but I don't think that good,
experienced trainers claim they can proof chasing prey in certain
dogs/breeds.
>>>Which is why I finish my statement by telling my beginner puppy students that
>>>they need to run up a tree chittering, like I said in the original post. :}
>>
>>
>> Very amusing, but not terribly helpful in terms of educating people
>> about their breeds. It's not about interest. My high-prey dogs know
>> the difference between a squirrel and me runnning up a tree
>> chittering.
>>
>> Mustang Sally
>
>My dogs would think I had completely lost my mind.
>And they wouldn't be very amused, either.
To a high-prey dog, nothing is more interesting that what they're
watching/chasing. Certainly a human being standing on its head would
not be.
Mustang Sally
Gwen Watson
greyhound wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:17:33 -0600, Gwen Watson <gw...@ig.utexas.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>greyhound wrote:
>> It's hard-wired, it runs
>>
>>>through their veins, it's their very existence, to chase and kill
>>>small furry running creatures.
>>
>>What about the dogs whose very existence is to chase large
>>furry running critters like white tail deer.
>
>
> IMO hard-wired is hard-wired, regardless of the size of the prey.
Indeed I have to agree. And depending on how "hard" the dog
also makes it very tough to begin to work with.
>
>
>>But then I admit I am not a very good trainer when it comes
>>to things that are hard wired, such as prey drive or
>>herding instincts.
>
>
> I'm not a great trainer period, but I don't think that good,
> experienced trainers claim they can proof chasing prey in certain
> dogs/breeds.
I agree.
>
>>>>Which is why I finish my statement by telling my beginner puppy students that
>>>>they need to run up a tree chittering, like I said in the original post. :}
>>>
>>>
>>>Very amusing, but not terribly helpful in terms of educating people
>>>about their breeds. It's not about interest. My high-prey dogs know
>>>the difference between a squirrel and me runnning up a tree
>>>chittering.
>>>
>>>Mustang Sally
>>
>>My dogs would think I had completely lost my mind.
>>And they wouldn't be very amused, either.
>
>
> To a high-prey dog, nothing is more interesting that what they're
> watching/chasing. Certainly a human being standing on its head would
> not be.
>
> Mustang Sally
I know I live with one. And nothing is more interesting or more
fun to do, than to chase critters on the run.
Gwen
The Puppy Wizard
"Judy" <noway...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4Tmnd.8884$17.18...@news1.epix.net...
> "Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:3054cuF...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> > Or, if you know what your're doing
You mean like when sinofbitch jerks and chokes
a new Labradorable dog puppy on her pronged
spiked pinch choke collar till IT went NUTS and
she ATTACKED IT?:
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
> > with a working-bred terrier,
A dog is a dog.
> > you teach the dog that there are consequences
> > for not listening.
You mean you HURT and INTIMIDATE and PUNISH
the dog when IT doesn't do what you LIKE on accHOWENT
of you don't have the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunning
of the domestic puppy dog.
> > Of course, that STILL means that the dog has to hear you,
IOW, your METHOD FAILS to work when the
dog isn't sufficiently AFRAID of GETTIN HURT.
> > which may not happen if the dog's intent on prey
So you ATTACK the dog instead of TRAINING
him NEARLY INSTANTLY using EFFECTIVE
NON PHYSCIAL CONditioning:
Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witse...@aol.com
Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.
My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.
When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.
I will write to Amanda about the video.
I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.
Thanks again
Paul
> > (and trust me,
TRUST YOU, sinofabitch? You're a PROVEN
LIAR and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE:
sinofabitch writes:
> >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
> >> posts from two different people,
Of curse THAT'S a lie.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
"I'm not going to rehash the entire series of posts unless
and "Only if it's taken completely out of context. <G>"
> >> took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse.
QUOTED.
You wanna see it in context?
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out
of context" "I'm not going to rehash the entire series
of posts unless and "Only if it's taken completely
out of context. <G>"
> >> cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
But NOT TO WORRY:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
"I'm not going to rehash the entire series of posts unless
and "Only if it's taken completely out of context. <G>"
> >> then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> >>and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> >> Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
"I'm not going to rehash the entire series of posts unless
and "Only if it's taken completely out of context. <G>"
> a clicker is NOT the answer).
RIGHT. On accHOWENT of clicker training
RELIES on BRIBERY and NUTHIN is gonna
BRIBE a dog away from PREY DRIVE UNLESS
it's his PACK LEADER choosing a BETTER PRAY.
And then he'll follow suit.
But you don't know THAT. All you know is HURT
and INTIMIDATE dogs and LIE abHOWET IT.
LIKE THIS:
> > Here's Jerry's version
> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
>
> > Here's yours;
>
> > "I dropped the leash, threw my
> > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> > grabbed her opposite foot with my
> > left hand, rolled her on her side,
> > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> > nipped her ear.
> > --Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
"I'm not going to rehash the entire series of posts unless
and "Only if it's taken completely out of context. <G>"
SEE?
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
"When you get BAGGED for LYING you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
> The dog has to not only hear you
You mean when you CALL HIM OFF of
UNDESIREABLE behaviors you don't
have the INTELLECT to TRAIN the dog
NOT to do on accHOWENT of his PRAY
DRIVE cannot be CON-TROLLED by
bribery pain fear or force.
So HOWE COME you TRY?
> but actually consider the consequences of not reacting.
You CANNOT overcome PRAY DRIVE with
THOUGHTS of CONsequences when the
REWARD for the PRAY DRIVE is "HARD
WIRED," to use the DOG ABUSERS own
terminology.
> Given a dog with a thinking brain -
THINKING got NUTHIN to do with breaking a
normal natural innate instinctive reflexive behavior.
> even if they DO hear you,
You mean, like a dog would "hear" his
pack leaders when on a hunt? They DO
that by PAYING ATTENTION all the time,
on accHOWENT of THAT'S HOWE a PACK
HUNTS PRAY.
> they are still thinking about whether the
> consequences are dire enough to give up the
> immediate reward of the prey.
Well then, you've answered your own question.
HAVEN'T YOU.
You're SAYIN the dog will THINK of his CONsequences
for REFLEXING to his NORMAL NATURAL INNATE
INSTINCTIVE HARD WIRED PRAY DRIVE.
The CONsequences of NOT obeying his NORMAL
NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE HARD
WIRED PRAY DRIVE, is DEATH.
BWEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
SEE?
You really ARE smart enough to HOWEtwit
the cunning of the domestic puppy dog, IF
you understand the NATURE of the BEAST
and EXXXAMINE your THINKING.
THAT'S HOWE COME every thing you think
you know abHOWET dogs and behavior is
DEAD WRONG.
> And I swear
NOT on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Forums you won't.
Not no MOORE, soon as we get rid of the UNDESIREABLE
ELEMENT who are ATTRACTED to HURTING dogs
and LYING abHOWET it to compensate for their fragile
defective ego's, weak fearful minds and inferiority complexes.
> they are capable of reasoning
INSTINCT TRUMPS REASON EVERY TIME.
Just like HOWE HOWER DOG LOVER'S INSTINCT
is to HURT dogs and LIE abHOWET it on accHOWENT
of THAT'S their HUMAN NATURE.
> that if they can just get that mouse in the next few seconds
JUST LIKE HOWE you try to sneak up on behavior problems.
> (which they are convinced they can do)
JUST LIKE HOWE you try to sneak up on behavior problems.
> that they can then bring the corpse back to you
JUST LIKE HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard is doin...
> thereby fulfilling both your needs.
Well then, you've got SUMPTHIN to WORK WITH!
PRAY DRIVE!
WHOOPIE!
Ask LeeCharlesKelley abHOWET THAT, judy.
Your PALS was just tellin him he's a LIAR.
> And they are pretty sure that you don't really
> mean that they should just abandon the cornered
> mouse *right now*.
That's absurd. The dog ain't gonna call off
on accHOWENT of you AIN'T got CON-TROLL
of his ATTENTION on accHOWENT of you're
in OPPOSITION to his PRAY DRIVE.
You're COMPETING with MOTHER NATURE.
And your armed with BRIBERY FEAR FORCE
and AVOIDANCE. NO WONDER you bums
can't HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic
puppy dog. THAT requires INTELLECT.
> You just don't understand all the details of
> the situation or you wouldn't be asking something
> so ridiculous as calling them away right now.
ALL BEHAVIORS ARE THE SAME SAME SAME SAME.
> It's not really a willful disobedience.
SO YOU HURT THE DOG anyHOWE.
> They do want to please you.
NO. Dogs children and SP-HOWESES only
want to PLEASE themselves or you'd be able
to make them want to do as YOU please and
you wouln't NEED to BRIBE and PUNISH them.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
> The dog just believes he is thinking one step ahead of you.
The dog AIN'T even THINKIN of you UNLESS
he's thinkin of you as a COMPETITOR. THAT'S
HOWE COME you can't STOP them from DOIN IT.
> He knows what you want and he knows
> what he wants and he's pretty sure that
> he's right and you'll certainly see that if
> you just step back and look at it more clearly.
That so? That's abHOWET as SCIENTIFIC as
anything professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer
has taught us that didn't work so we might as
well take your word for this IDIOCY.
> At least that's a miniature schnauzer.
A DOG IS A DOG.
HOWEDY People,
Can AnyWON PROVE "Jerry Is NOT G-D And HIS
Manual Is NOT The Bible", Cleverly Disguised As
The Amazing Puppy Wizard And HIS FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual??
The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
>Paul B wrote:
>> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
>> I haven't read any other advice that says to
>> praise immediately regardless of what the dog
>> does next (the common advice is to praise once
>> the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
>> stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
>> to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own
>> experiences is an important part of the process.
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
--Marshall
=================
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1...@uwm.edu...
Hello Marshall,
> There really is NOTHING new about
> the advice above!
Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
"Dan Moore" <moor...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message
news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
..
>
> Tracy,
>
> What worked for me, in just one storm,
> was to praise the dog after each clap
> of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
>
> This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
>
> The next time it thundered, he did not even react at
> all--you could not tell it was the same dog as before.
>
> There was more thunder just the other day, and same
> thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no cowering, whimpering,
> trying to hide at all, it was that simple.
>
> I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
> to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
> abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
>
> Wonderfully.
>
> Praise.
>
> It's that simple.
>
> Juanita
"Estel J. Hines" <ejh...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfN...@comcast.com...
>
> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon,
> it went something like this with our 11 month old
> puppy "Yoshi"
>
> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
>
> us: HUSH Youshi
>
> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
>
> us: Hush Youshi
>
> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................i
> it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
>
> We decided to try the Jerry method
>
> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
>
> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>
> Yoshi Bark, Bark
> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
>
> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
>
> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
> can praise him, to deal with things like this
>
> Thanks Jerry
>
> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
> Papers, and learn how to live with our son
> "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Estel J. Hines
==============
HOWEDY Brandy,
"Brandy Kurtz" <Krafty...@wmconnect.com> wrote in message
news:2f66e35d.04073...@posting.google.com...
> Krafty...@wmconnect.com (Brandy Kurtz) wrote in message
news:<2f66e35d.04072...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > Hello everyone! We have a 2 1/2 year old male
>
> Well I just printed out the Amazing Puppy Wizard info,
> so I haven't actually started to train yet.
>
> Today a salesman knocked on the door, and Pokey
> was going balisstic. I calmly go to the window to see
> who it is, and off-handly say Good Boy, It's a stranger,
> Good Boy. Pokey shut right up, gave me a quizical
> look, and came and sat beside my feet! OMG, I could
> not believe it!
>
> I was totally floored, as this has been his
> behavior since a pup. Just wanted to update,
> and Pokey and I are hitting the sack...;)
Well THAT IS encouraging, AIN'T IT.
> Brandy
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witse...@aol.com
Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.
My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.
When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.
I will write to Amanda about the video.
I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.
Thanks again
Paul
From: Chris Williams (k9a...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
Date: 2002-03-26 08:16:19 PST
Engrossing account, Anthony. Our best to Angel
and your family.
A friend, who socializes the kittens I've taken
from a feral cat colony, is using the DDR.
She reports far fewer panic problems than
she's had before.
============================
Chris Williams writes:
"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"
====================
----- Original Message -----
From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo
Aloha Jerry,
Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.
Your program is awesome, but you already
know that. Keep up the good work!
Hoku
==================
Dave Cohen <coh...@total.net writes:
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...
Hi. Please understand that I do not know Jerry
and have spoken with him briefly once by email.
I have no stake or interest in the success of his
business. I simply want to thank him publicly for
one of his tips, with regards to separation anxiety.
I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed
animal and then say good bye to my own dog, but
I am usually a very open minded person, so I tried it.
Well, lo and behold- the damn trick worked!
I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic.
Thank you Jerry!
=====================
"Greg M. Silverman"
<gmsN...@no.umn.edu<mailto:gmsN...@no.umn.edu>>
wrote in message
Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever
your alias of the day is,
I have to say that our dog heels much better than
she did. This is after reading and implementing the
bit in your "Wits End" treatise. And she's a royal
nutter (but then again, aren't they all?).
Cheers! Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: <n> To: "Jerry Howe"
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much
Hi Jerry,
When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had him
for 3 years.
It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book training
with him.
Where I used to say "come" and then say "good boy"
when he obeyed, I have reversed it with a "good boy" first.
It really does work. He was very confused at first,
wondering what he had done to get the praise.
But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.
Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.
Thanks, N
------------------------------------
"Ned" <komo...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:fQIg9.25850$561....@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Hi !
> Our black lab girl is 3 months old (she will be 4 months
> on the 30th).
>
> When we first brought her home she had a bad habit
> of trying to nip our faces (including my 3 year old twins)
> during playtime. It drove everyone in the house nuts
> and it brought my little girls to tears as you can imagine.
>
> We tried saying no, and that would just get her even
> more excited, so we would yell no and that would just
> get her "scared" but still excited. In short it just wasn't
> working.
>
> So we finally did what Jerry has suggested to you.
> We used a sound do distract her and we would
> immediately praise her.
>
> I have to say that it worked great. BUT she then
> moved on to nipping at the feet LOL silly little thing.
>
> So again, we tried no, and then louder no, but again
> it didn't work so we went for the distraction and praise.
> I must say that she is doing great!
>
> I hope that helps.
> Edyta aka Ned
===================
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM
Hello.
I never posted here (or anywhere) before.
I never trained or owned a dog before this
year.
I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.
Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.
I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.
I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.
A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.
We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he is very eager to accept our love.
So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.
His method worked for us.
I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.
Florence
------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "nicole" <To: "Jerald D. Howe">
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: Off to a good start!
Hi Jerald, Just wanted to tell you we read
your manual and have started working with
the dogs...
"Chloe" (the one we adopted--a. k. a.
"The Destroyer") has already shown
great improvement! (In Just 1 DAY!)
She responds even better than our other
(better-behaved) dog "Poe".
We tried out the surrogate toy technique, and
not a thing was touched when we got back!
We were both surprised because Chloe isn't
that interested in toys and was still very uptight
about us reaching for the door... anyway, it
seemed to work.
We both work all day today so we'll see
how that goes... Regardless, we will be
cool as cukes when we get home! ;)
I'm just so thankful we might have a chance
to get through to her! We're very excited about
her progress thus far...
Thank You!
Nicole, Michael, Poe and especially Chloe!
__________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff & Di"
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: help, with the At Wits End training manual
HOWEDY Diana,
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Thanks very much for the prompt reply.
> I'm just writing to let you know that I've
> had some wonderful progress with Molly.
Of curse!
> I took her up to the school in the car when
> I was picking up my daughter. My husband
> went to get our daughter while I stayed in
> the car with Molly. It was a quick trip so I
> wasn't expecting any car sickness, but I
> thought it would be a great opportunity to
> work on her fear of people approaching the
> car.
>
> When we pulled up, there were already a lot
> of people and kids milling around, and as I
> haven't explained the AWETM to my husband
> of course he was yelling at Molly to shut up
> and sit down.
That'll increase anxiHOWESNESS.
> As you can imagine this didn't help.
>
> Once he was gone I simply told Molly she
> was good, she growled a few times at people
> and I said "thanks Molly I see them too, they're
> ok" then I asked her to find her ball which was
> in the back.
I wouldn't recommend offering a physical
distraction for two reasons. 1) she's likely
to become dependent on putting something
in her MHOWETH when she's stressed and
2) it may disavail you of successive training
opportunities necessary to extinguish the behavior.
> She loves her ball so was keen to do that and
> didn't notice what was by now a big crowd of
> parents and kids passing the car.
See, we really do want her to notice, so
we can briefly and variably distract and
praise to extinguish the behavior.
> I kept up with the "good girl" and "where's
> your ball" soon she was sitting watching
> the people walk past and offering them
> her ball to throw, not that they noticed her.
Well, it worked well for you this time. Don't
use the ball again the next time, just follow
the praise techniques.
> But it was lovely to see her so relaxed.
INDEEDY. That's the bottom line for successful
nearly instant training. That's why bribing and
withholding bribes fails, cause anxiety increases
as we withhold the reward to elicit the behavior.
> Just to add, I was sitting in the front and she
> was in the back of the wagon, so this was all
> verbal praise and distraction with no touching
> or patting.
Right. Physical contact distracts the dog from
thinking and processing the information.
> Jerry it is so hard not to yell at the dog when
> you are frustrated and want it to behave immediately,
Yeah. It only takes a few minutes to appupriately
extinguish any behavior, but you've got to know HOWE.
> but as you have said it really gets you
> nowhere in the long run.
"Reinforcement NEVER ends."
That's HOWE COME when we train dogs using
non physical methods the behavior is not dependent
on HOWER ability to reinforce manage supervise
bribe and avoid... IOW, we've HOWEtwitted the
cunning of the domestic puppy dog by tempting
the dog to do the undesirable behavior and distracting
and praising before the thought is fulfilled till
it's no longer thought of as a useful behavior.
> I would never of had these great results
> with Molly without your help, as we really
> were stuck in the "yelling at the dog" rut.
Just wait till you apply my methods to your kids.
My methods have rehabilitated severe hyperactive
kids as fast and permanent as the dogs I've heelped.
> I have to work on getting my husband to read
> your manual now, by the way an At Wits End
> Husband Training Manual would be helpful too,
> haha.
Not a chance in heel. If Mrs. Puppy Wizard
discovered it I'd be wearin an apron and workin
insetead of settin right here, stark ravin nekkid,
wearin nuthin but these gawd awful paper slippers.
> Thankyou so much for providing this info for free.
My pleasure. Consider it my vindictive nature...
> I was looking at dog training books in the shops
> today and they are so expensive !! (around $30
> to $40 in Australia) Not that I need them now, but
> I like to browse the dog and pet sections from
> time to time.
Makes The Amazing Puppy Wizard grind HIS teeth...
> You might like think about publishing a book
> one day, I think it would be received very well
> by the general public and reach those without
> internet access.
I probably should do sumpthin. The dog lovers
on the news groups ain't interested in training
their dogs, they seem to enjoy discussing behavior
problems and the training tools they used to cause
them.
> I was going to copy my last letter onto the news
> groups but see that you have already done so.
Yeah, but a lot of folks don't like to read my posts
cause HOWER dog lovers like to tell foks they're
forgeries.
> Feel free to quote this letter too if it helps.
Thank you, but I really wish you'll repost them
cause it'll be more believable coming from you.
These folks think it should take weeks and
months to rehabiliatate behavior problems.
They think they're successful if they've
rehabilitated an aggresson problem after a
year or longer working at it.
> It's unfortunate that the newsgroups are cluttered
> with rubbish, as It would be nice to discuss dogs
>from time to time with other dog lovers.
That ain't gonna happen cause decent folks
don't post there. Every WON is interested
in saving dogs lives by hurting them as a last
resort when forcing avoiding and bribing didn't work.
> cheers,
LikeWIZE.
> Dianna
Yours, Jerry.
----- Original Message -----
From: "LEE " <>
To: <ThePupp...@EarthLink.Net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 6:11 AM
Subject: Wits end training in England
HOWEDY Lee,
> Hi,
> I have stumbled across your training method on the internet
EXCELLENT!
Nuthin happens by accident or coincidence.
> and I am pleased to say, one part of it has worked
> already after only 3 days of training.
Wonderful! Please follow the method entirely and
PRECISELY. It NEVER FAILS, but it's very unforgiving
of mistakes and doesn't play well with other methods.
> I own two boxers, one of which is a rescue dog who
> sufferred from 'seperation anxiety'
SA usually takes no more than WON day or two, to break.
> and would constantly chew his bedding in his crate
> when in the house alone. After only 2 sessions of
> praising his favourite nylon bone and leaving it in
> front of the crate before leaving, the behaviour is gone!
> Lee.
HOWETSTANDING!
From: Mike (m.bi...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-15 12:28:54 PST
Alan,
The puppy wizard calls it as he sees it.
He isn't PC and that pisses people off.
The fact is that I have used his FREE
methods and they DO in fact work.
What a crock of shit relating his methods
to a science experiment.
Yes, the man is a cross posting menace
and has proly smoked too many batts in
his day but he has the canine species best
interest at heart and doesn't profit from his
point of view.
He is a selfless advocate for dogs and
that's enough for me to respect the man
no matter how controversial he gets.
Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
Mike
From: Mike (m.bi...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
>
> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> >
> > Mike
>
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?
>
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm. My dogs get distracted easy
from their jobs ie, retrieving or training to find lost
people, oh did I mention that I am a Search and
Rescue Team Leader.
Sorry that slipped my mind.
I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.
Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left
over.
Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog. Seemed he learned through osmosis.
Nice side benefit there.
It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what?
I was at my "Whits End" then someone I
knew turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks.
The first night home following Jerrys advice
we ditched the crate and put the pup on the
floor beside the bed and after 2 whimpers
NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG FOR
6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
The Puppy Wizard sez:
A Dog Is A Dog As A Kat Is A Kat As A
Birdie Is A Birdie As A Child Is A Child As A
SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.
ALL Critters Only Respond In PREDICTABLE INNATE
NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >
> --Marshall Dermer
> Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/
> Behavior Analysis Specialty/Department
> of Psychology/University of Wisconsin-
> Milwaukee/Milwaukee,WI 53201
> der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
--------------------------------------
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
GOT MILK?
The Puppy Wizard
HOWE COME you can't train them and THAT'S
HOWE COME your dog Blade is DYING from
STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE.
"Gwen Watson" <> wrote in message
news:cnl7a2$c5i$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
The Puppy Wizard
"greyhound" <x...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:ng6sp05qb8cbkq1a1...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:17:33 -0600, Gwen Watson
<gw...@ig.utexas.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >greyhound wrote:
> >> It's hard-wired, it runs through their veins,
> >> it's their very existence, to chase and kill
> >> small furry running creatures.
Like that little innocent DEAD DOG in the
park your pal leah's RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie RECENTLY MURDERED
and like that HOWES bunny her STUDENT'S
dogs RECENTLY MURDERED and like culprit
aka kelly aka metta's DEAD KAT her dogs
RECENTLY MURDERED on accHOWENT
of you bums can't stop HURTING and INTIMIDATING
your dogs.
> > What about the dogs whose very existence
> > is to chase large>furry running critters like
> > white tail deer.
Or HOWES bunnys HOWES kats and
innocent little dogs in the park?
> IMO
Your OPINION is that of a lying dog
abusing mental case, racetrack silly:
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.
There's MOORE of that where it came from...
> hard-wired is hard-wired,
THAT'S INSANE.
> regardless of the size of the prey.
You can't train a dog not to C-HOWENTER SURF
on accHOWENT of his PRAY DRIVE?
> >But then I admit I am not a very good trainer when
> >it comes to things that are hard wired, such as prey
> >drive or herding instincts.
THAT'S INSANE.
If the dog was "IN DRIVE" you'd be able to
CON-TROLL him on accHOWENT of THAT
is what PRAY DRIVE is all abHOWET.
You'll use ANY EXXXCUSE as a reason
for not having the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit
the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.
> I'm not a great trainer period,
Right. You're both liars and dog abusers
and punk thug coward long term incurable
MENTAL CASES.
> but I don't think that good, experienced trainers
Like your PALS here abHOWETS?
> claim they can proof chasing prey in certain dogs/breeds.
BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
THAT'S HOWE COME THEY MURDER THEIR
OWN DOGS when they become TOO DANGERHOWES
to abuse someMOORE to get through the initial
training period and then of curse, the "REINFORCEMENT
NEVER ENDS" period.
PERIOD.
> >>>Which is why I finish my statement by telling
> >>>my beginner puppy students that they need to
> >>>run up a tree chittering, like I said in the original post.
:}
Might as well, for all her TRAINING is worth.
> >> Very amusing, but not terribly helpful in terms
> >> of educating people about their breeds.
Like that RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT Rottie
and her other student who's dogs RECENTLY
MURDERED INNOCENT DEAD CRITTERS.
> >> It's not about interest.
Ahhh, the PET PSYCHIC again?
> >> My high-prey dogs
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
That's dog trainer lingo for HYPERACTIVE.
> >> know the difference between a squirrel and
> >> me runnning up a tree chittering.
THAT'S IDOCY.
> >> Mustang Sally
>
> >My dogs would think I had completely lost my mind.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard will be eager to
QUOTE YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY.
> >And they wouldn't be very amused, either.
Pretty sad stuff.
> To a high-prey dog,
A DOG IS A DOG.
> nothing is more interesting that
> what they're watching/chasing.
You mean, PRAY DRIVE?
> Certainly a human being standing on its
> head would not be.
NOT unless you was makin CHIMPANZEE
S-HOWENDS while doin the MONKEY
MACARENA.
> Mustang Sally
HOWEDY racetrack silly,
"greyhound" <x...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:p0c5o0tcihrka2gri...@4ax.com...
> On 29 Oct 2004 20:01:01 GMT, dfrnt...@aol.com (Leah) wrote:
>
> I was going to really start laughing when you
> mentioned the CPR, until I read that it was her
> pet. That's too bad. It's always very hard when
> something like that happens.
>
> >And he was killed by bichons.
>
> Now that I didn't expect. But I guess bichons have
> prey drive too.
>
> Mustang Sally
HOWEDY Soup,
"c0u_ch_cam" <c0u_ch_cam@sppa_mdo_gtv.com> wrote in message
news:37ed45beaa08bf87...@news.teranews.com...
>
>
> sighthounds etc. wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:04:48 -0400, janet, kills,
> > dogs, janet, kills, dogs wrote:
> >
> >>sighthounds etc. wrote:
> >>
> >>>On 22 Sep 2003 02:28:42 GMT, kind...@aol.com (Kind2dogs)
wrote:
> >>> It is. He's huge, not tall of course but a squat
> >>> bundle of 100 lbs or so of solid muscle. A real
> >>> sweetie and very handsome; he's black and
> >>> white, though pretty dirty these days from living
> >>> outside. No manners whatsoever - - I always sit
> >>> down to greet him because he can knock me
> >>> over in a heartbeat. I hope he doesn't end up in
> >>> the pound someday.
> >> Especially YOUR pound. You sit on the board, and
> >> you rake in cash and pay SUCKER animal lovers
> >> six bucks an hour to exterminate dogs like the above.
> >> You GET PAID to eliminate dogs. Isn't that correct
> >> Mustang Sally Dog Exterminator?
> > No. 1) I'm not on the board. 2)
And racetrack silly doesn't KILL animals...
> I must be confusing you for this Sally Hennessy,
> President of the Board who oversaw the killing
> of two thirds of the animals who came into your "shelter."
RIGHT! NOBODY HURTS AND KILLS DOGS,
HERE ABHOWETS.
> My bad.
SHAME ON YOU, RUMORMONGER!!!
> Did you resign or get fired?
You must be CONfHOWENDING racetrack silly
for a other racetrack silly.
> Sally, President of the Board
> Killing dogs and getting paid for it
> (at least her "shelter" gets paid for it)
> Sally claims she doesn't or didn't get paid
> to kill dogs as the President of the Board
>
> ===========================================
> From: sighthounds etc. (greypi...@ncweb.com)
> Subject: Re: Not Working in the Shelter :}
> Date: 2002-06-26 16:53:21 PST
>
> It probably wouldn't hurt, and a dose of reality might be
> helpful, too. I'm president of the board of our local shelter.
>
> The new board has almost succeeded in pulling the APL
> out of financial ruin, and very soon now we'll be able to
> turn our attention to making improvements in our shelter,
> increasing adoptions, etc. We are in the largest county in
> our state, and it's also one of the poorest. We take in
> around 3,000 animals a year and euthanize two-thirds of them.
> ============================================
BUT THAT'S NOT KILLIN DOGS.
> > To the best of my knowledge, the
> > local shelter doesn't rake in cash.
RIGHT! They kill dogs for FREE.
> > 3) I have never been paid to
> > eliminate/exterminate/euthanize dogs.
NOBODY HURTS AND KILLS DOGS HERE ABHOWETS.
> >>give some scritches to your ugly greyhounds,
They'll like that.
> > What a lovely thing for a suppposed dog lover to say,
> > Mikey. FYI, my Greyhounds are not ugly. Also FYI, I
> > would never tell anyone their dog was ugly, even if it was.
You only kill perty dogs?
> > Not even you.
> But you have no problem killing 67% of the animals that
> come into your "shelter" and you have the nerve to call
> it an ANIMAL PROTECTION LEAGUE.
>
> I think that's pretty ugly, Hennessy.
NOBODY HURTS AND KILLS DOGS HERE ABHOWETS.
> have a very nice day...
> michael
> live...
> http://dogtv.com
>
>
> I might tell you that you are a pathetic, nasty,
attention-craving,
> underachieving, egomaniacal little creep, but I wouldn't tell
you
> your dogs were ugly.
Certainly not noMOORE than you'd KILL innocent dogs:
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> ================
>
>>lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
>> depression) will "put down a biter
>> as fast as anyone" yet claims to
>> be a saintly dog rescuer
>>Lynn K. wrote:
>>
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
>>one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
>>schedules and duties causes a great deal of
>>scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
>>volunteers get the meaningful experience that
>>they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that
>>Volunteer Program, and it is best done
>>by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
>>every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
>>had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>--------------------------------------
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
Are those MENTAL CASES, or NOT?
Better report to Soup and update your MENTAL ILLNESS
status. The Puppy Wizard wouldn't wanna push you over
the goddamned edge and see you HURT YOURSELF
from EMBARRASSMENT.
The Puppy Wizard
"greyhound" <x...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:1s2sp09dp6sn7rc01...@4ax.com...
Leah
>It's not really a willful disobedience. They do want to please you. The
>dog just believes he is thinking one step ahead of you. He knows what you
>want and he knows what he wants and he's pretty sure that he's right and
>you'll certainly see that if you just step back and look at it more clearly.
>
>At least that's a miniature schnauzer.
LOL! Yes, it certainly is. I always hold my breath when I see one of those
little stinkers coming into class, and pray that he isn't an adolescent. :}
Like jrts, clever little guys with minds of their own.
Admittedly my belief is theoretical, since at this point I don't know any jrts
who can be called off mice. But a lot of high-drive dogs can be trained to
inhibit their drives on command.
If you break any behavior up into teeny tiny little increments, then drill each
successive increment, you can accomplish some amazing behavior modification.
---
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
Leah
>>Which is why I finish my statement by telling my beginner puppy students
>that
>>they need to run up a tree chittering, like I said in the original post. :}
>
>Very amusing, but not terribly helpful in terms of educating people
>about their breeds.
No, but it is my prelude to educating them about proofing.
As I detailed in the first post, and both you and Sarah apparently missed
(since you both pulled this statement out of context).
And also, as I said in the first post, this is what was said to ME when I
wanted advice on how to distract Madigan from squirrels. "You have to be more
interesting than the squirrel." Which was less than helpful. And which is why
I have added a punchline.
The Puppy Wizard
to PRAY after the C-HOWENTERS and
GARBAGE bin.
You can't TRAIN a dog not to steal food
from children no doGgamened better
than you can break a terrier of chasin
a rat, on accHOWENT of you don't know
HOWE to train ANY dog for ANY behavior
that can't be BRIBED FORCED INTIMIDATATED
or AVOIDED.
You're a bunch of FRAUDS.
You're blowin smoke up HOWER arses,
just judging by your own POSTED CASE
HISTORIES.
Like THIS WON:
Subject: "Pure Positive Training Is NOT POSSIBLE,"
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. "HOWE Do They Correct Unwanted
Behaviors," bigb, Canine ACTION Training.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAA!!!!
HOWEDY bigb,
"BigB" <del...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:N6xEc.2971$IX4.4...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:37cd72a9.04062...@posting.google.com...
>
> > Oh, I think "pure positive" is a reality --- but "pure
> > positive training" is not. I know plenty of people who DO
> > use pp only. They just aren't achieving much training.
>
> How do they correct unwanted behaviors?
You CANNOT "correct" unwanted behaviors, dog
abuser, cause a dog doesn't know RIGHT from
WRONG, they ONLY know DOG. Dogs ONLY
respond in PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL
NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE ways to
situations and circumstance which we create
for them.
> Say jumping for example or leash pulling.
You'd have to learn HOWE to pupperly handle
and train a dog, dog abuser. You don't, cause
you're a doggamned FRAUD.
> I find it difficult to use reinforcement
> without some type of punishment.
Might you CONsider postin THAT on your
web page SELLING your "training" lessons?:
"BigB" <del...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:S4wLc.80365$uK.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> > "TooCool" <larr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NNvLc.2700$4L7....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>
> > Dogs do not understand the concept of right
> > and wrong. But it is their nature to oppose you.
> > If you pull upon them then they will pull back, if
> > you push upon them then they will push back,
> > if they chew upon your shoe and you scold them
> > then they will naturally chew your shoe again.
The FASTEST way to TRAIN a dog to TAKE
sumpthin is to TRY to KEEP IT AWAY from him.
> > Shoo your dog out of your kitchen and he will
> > immediately come back in. Try to keep him
> > from charging the door by pushing him away
> > with your foot and he will charge ever so much
> > more deliberately and he will become an expert
> > at avoiding your foot. Once your dog figures out
> > your intention, he will figure out a way to oppose it.
Tellin the dog HE CAN'T DO SUMPTHIN puts
VALUE on whatever HE CAN DO but YOU
won't allHOWE. Like EATIN POISON.
> > Your job is to never oppose your dog-then he
> > will never oppose you.
>
> You must be sleeping with TPW...
TooCool aka Larry is a SCIENTIST who's
been STUDING behaviorISM and has
TALKED BUSINESS with ALL the "great
trainers" still alive, and FHOWEND The
Amazing Puppy Wizard to have the ONLY
PERFECT METHOD, BAR NONE.
---------------------------------------------------
> Most positive trainers I know
NAME WON. You don't KNOW ANY or you
wouldn't NEED to HURT BRIBE and lock
dosg in boxes to "train" them.
> call themselves that because of the heavy
> focus on rewards for good behavior and lack
> of harsh "physical" corrections
ANY "correction" or DENIAL of or withholding
attention or affection and bribery is CRUEL to
a DUMB ANIMAL, child or spHOWES.
> but corrections are given nonetheless.
AS STATED:
"ANY "correction" or DENIAL of or withholding
attention or affection and bribery is CRUEL to
a DUMB ANIMAL, child or spHOWES."
> And often they will try to use P- before P but
> essentially you use R, R-, P, & P- when training
The Amazing Puppy Wizard got NO idea what
the heel you're talkin abHOWET when you encrypt
your LIES and DHOWEble talk, dog abuserS.
> or else you are only supplying half the info to the dog.
You mean the HALF that makes dogs FEAR you
enought to do as you tell them, dog abuser.
> I think you can classify a NRM as P.
WHATEVER... That means NUTHIN to noWON
cause P could be PUNISHMENT as YOU PREFER
or P COULD be PRAISE as you POO POO cause
you DO NOT UNDERSTAND the NATURE of the
BEAST, all YOU understand is FEAR FORCE PAIN
INTIMIDATION GREED MISERY and DEATH.
> > I spent this evening at a small group session on
> > dog-human aggression hosted by Open Paw. Ian
> > Dunbar was the speaker
That's DOCTOR ian dunbar, dog behavior fraudS.
> > and was very clear that he uses P.
You mean P as in PUNISHMENT or P as in PRAISE?
Or P as in POO POO?
We're gonna quit using CONfHOWENDING scrabble
terms and RELY on INTELLIGENCE and HONESTY,
things you've YET to learn abHOWET cause you'll
do and say ANY THING to defend your alleged right
to hurt and murder dogs as you PREFER.
> > The distinction he made, and I think it's at the
> > heart of the issue, is that he only uses what he
> > calls "instructive punishment".
IOW MOORE DHOWEble talk. lying "I LOVE KOEHELR"
lynn REPORTED his "METHOD" DIDN'T WORK for her
and her PALS who were at that "grHOWEL class":
Lynn K.:
In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27.
Given his propensity for repeating himself
verbatim, I'll bet he's also written it somewhere :-)
My biggest take-home from that evening actually
came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 &
some co-workers afterwards.
They confirmed my experience that "growl classes"
don't have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog
aggressive dogs.
Our common experience was that the desensitization
only lasted for the session and didn't carry forward.
As an aside, you might want to get a copy of the
little training manual they are using for shelter
volunteers at www.openpaw.org
The stuff on teaching people how to get into the
kennel and get an excited dog out for a walk is
excellent. Lynn K.
So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS
DON'T WORK and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE
FRAUDS LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS
and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL
CASES and IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE and html.
> > If the dog is not given a clear picture of what
> > response is required, the P is meaningless.
Hunh? You mean P as in PUNISH or P as in Praise
Or P as in PUNK THUG COWARD?
> He does use P.....you might be referring to what he calls
> the "instructive reprimand". Ian was just in Orlando in May
> for a 4 day seminar where he discussed his use of this.
INDEED. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Student Professora Daniel was there as well.
We LAUGHED at his "method" takin SIX
WEEKS to "rehabilitate" FEAR AGGRESSION,
cause SHE done THAT in six days using HER
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual and NOT DOIN whatever the EXXXPERTS
"teach."
Seems FITTIN that "open paw" clearly describes
his MOTIVE for TAKIN ADVANTAGE of guillible
people denying the basic principles of behaviorISM:
"The amount of misery and difficulty a dog abuser
has from their dogs is directly proportionate to the
number of times they've WARNED people to KILLFILE
Jerry and not study your FREE copy of The Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual..."
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of
Behavior Never Change, Or They'd Not Be
Scientific And Would Not Obtain Consistent,
Reliable, Fast, Effective Results For All Handler's
And All Dogs, NEARLY INSTANTLY, As Taught
In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> Again...I think these "pure positive" trainers
> you are referring to are uneducated.
Professora Daniel FAILED to successfully TRAIN
her dog Sunshine raising him guided by the
EXXXPERTISE of dr dunbar.
After raising a FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog according
to dr dunbar's METHOD and clicker training, she
CON-sulted dra patricia mcconnel at Purdue behavor
clinic with whom she worked with IN PERSON to the
tune of $5,000.00 and SEVENTY HOWERS of proffesional
trainin classes as RECOMMENDED at Purdue with NO SUCCESS.
> They must use some time of punishment alomg the line.
ONLY IF THEY'RE INCOMPETENT and WILLING to
HURT and MURDER dogs as the EXXXPERTS DO.
> They probably just don't realize it because they are
> uneducated, and because of this they are inconsistent
> and therefore ineffective.
That so? The Amazing Puppy Wizard is fixin to
DIS-CUSS BUSINESS with the investigative
reporters in Orland, bigb, using YOUR SCHOOL
as a MODEL for the FRUAD and ABUSE in the
dog training INDUSTRY, bigb.
> So again, that is why I say that it is not a "reality".
What's NOT a REALITY is YOUR FUTURE in this BUSINESS.
> Those trainers who say they don't use punishment
> of any kind are out to lunch.
Please pass the rolls, bigb.
> B
We'll be lookin forward to SHARING lunch
WON fine day with the investigative staff
of several news media in the Orlando area.
HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
"Lynn K." <jav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37cd72a9.04072...@posting.google.com...
> "TooCool" <larr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<NNvLc.2700$4L7....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>...
>
> > But it is their nature to oppose you.
>
> Not only is that view of dogs incorrect, it's incredibly sad.
Sad? You want SAD?
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
> Cooperation is the nature of all pack animals.
INDEED?
> It led the 1st canine to approach the human campfire
And discovered your pronged spiked
pinch choke and shock collar?
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
HOWE come you don't bribe the dog
to be quiet when you lock IT in a box
and ignore it or when trainin IT to be
pals with the HOWEskat instead of
jerkin and choking and shocking IT?
> and has only been increased by all the
> generations of dogs who have been
> selectively bred for their cooperative nature.
Oh? You mean like your own SELECTIVELY
BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED SAR dog
JIVE who gets HIGH SCORES while COOPERATIN
in the ring where you practice daily jerking and
choking and shocking him and FLUNKED SAR
trainin cause HE KNOWS YOU CAN'T HURT
HIM if you don't know where the FIND is?
> Opposition only occurs when a dog is anxious &
> confused because they can't figure out how to
> cooperate with the stupid human who can't
> communicate it to them.
That so?
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
> It doesn't matter what training method is followed -
Well THAT'S certainly a RELIEF cause otherWIZE
you'd probably RUIN your own SAR dog by jerkin
chokin and shockin IT. Wouldn't you.
> any decent owner/handler/trainer
Like yourself and Master Of Deception blankman?
> will avoid confrontation if at all possible.
INDEEDY!
THAT'S HOWE COME you MURDER dogs
and won't TALK BUSINESS with The Amazing
Puppy Wizard.
> Many never experience any opposition at all,
> for the entire life of their dogs. The smart ones
> realize that if they do get opposition, it's because
> they failed to utilize the dogs nature.
But of curse!
> Lynn K.
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkos...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ging...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
> >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> >> quotes are true.
> >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> >> making those calls.
> >> In your post above, you state you do not
> >> make those calls.
> >>Which one is it?
------------------------------------------
> Lynn K.
The only ASSociation the readers of
these forums need to make is THIS:
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he
enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by
wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who
perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then? The love and
hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise
from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct
the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
permission from His FREE copy of my FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual.
Force training JERRYIZES dogs, and GETS THEM DEAD.
"Speech is a mirror of the soul: as a man speaks,
so is he." Publilius Syrus, First century B.C., Maxim 1073
"We are what we do."
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
--Marshall
=================
Hello Marshall,
"Estel J. Hines" <ejh...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfN...@comcast.com...
>
>>> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reduction,
>>> it went something like this with our 11 month old
>>> puppy "Yoshi"
>>> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
>>> us: HUSH Youshi
>>> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
>>> us: Hush Youshi
>>> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................
>>> it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
>>> We decided to try the Jerry method
>>> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
>>> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>>> Yoshi Bark, Bark
>>> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
>>> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
>>> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
>>> can praise him, to deal with things like this
>>> Thanks Jerry
>>> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
>>> Papers, and learn how to live with our son
>>> "Yoshi", whom we love very much. --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Estel J. Hines
==============
> There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!
Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE.
Here's MOORE SCIENCE, professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
"Leprechaun" <Lepre...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:m01Hc.20882$uK.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
>
> Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
> I took a rescued three year old beagle that
> had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
> even recognize or respond to its name to
> Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
> get real) and in just over one hour of working
> with the dog, he was coming on command
> (not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
> walking with us on a loose lead.
>
> His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
> command and pack exercise WORK!
>
> > and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
>
> Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.
>
> You don't have to like him. You don't have
> to agree with his methods, but as far as I
> am concerned, I've never seen any other
> training approach that was as fast and easy.
>
> <<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>
>
> Ron Flanagan
> Orlando, Florida
-----------------------
> "Zack Pellers" <ZackP...@GUESSWHERE.cc>
> wrote in message
> dli...@towson.edu (Derek) wrote in news:
> 697700b8.04052...@posting.google.com:
>
> Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.
>
> Http://www.DoggyDoRight.com
>
> You can start by downloading the free training
> manual available on the site above. I used it on
> my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro.
>
> When I first brought him home from rescue, he
> was similar to the way you decribed your dog.
> After using Mr. Howe's training method, the dog
> was cured within 72 hours.
>
> -Jack
"Dan Moore" <moor...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message
news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
..
>
> Tracy,
>
> What worked for me, in just one storm,
> was to praise the dog after each clap
> of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
>
> This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
>
> The next time it thundered, he did not even react at
> all--you could not tell it was the same dog as before.
>
> There was more thunder just the other day, and same
> thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no cowering, whimpering,
> trying to hide at all, it was that simple.
>
> I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
> to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
> abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
>
> Wonderfully.
>
> Praise.
>
> It's that simple.
>
> Juanita
"Ted Rumple" <rumpl...@kalbar.net> wrote in message
news:30aa784b.03092...@posting.google.com...
>
> Jerry, I am forever in your debt. The system you have
> created for training dogs is absolutely amazing!
>
> I can't wait until the new version is available for human
> children!
>
> Thank you for your service to humanity!
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall
"Rootman" <no-...@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:vd83djr...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Mini Adolph Hitler (aka megalomanic) wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
> Something else that was completely stupid,
> ignorant false and nongermane.
>
>
> JH, you are a goosestepping, facist, brownshirt,
> terrorist supporting, nazi thug. YOU hurt and kill
> dogs then try and cover it up by dreaming up false
> quotes to support your own retard methods.
>
> Go and practice your wild facism somewhere else.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall
The Puppy Wizard sez "A dog is a dog as a child
is a child. They only respond in PREDICTABLE
NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE
REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstances
of their environment which we create for them.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME SAME
SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.
What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George
"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior
> Analysis Specialty/Department of Psychology/
> University of Wisconsin- -Milwaukee/ Milwaukee,
> WI 53201
> der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
> --------------------------------------
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041119125308...@mb-m19.aol.com...
Leah
>No, this can't be done simply by making yourself "more interesting
>than the squirrel," as Leah suggests,
Note that I did not suggest that as the answer. I said that was what I was
told in response to questions about how to distract Madigan from squirrels.
And then by saying, "Unless you can run up a tree chittering," I made it into a
JOKE.
Just trying to fix a little spin action. :}
Gwen Watson
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
No, I almost certainly
> couldn't do it using R+ alone, and I wouldn't waste my time trying.
> But with the help of an e-collar,
Yeah well sure that works but me being more interesting alone
isn't going to work. It is amazing what NL can do as well
as an e-collar to curb the ole hard wired instincts.
I imagine it could even work on men.<g> For certain
things I will not go into.
Gwen
The Puppy Wizard
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me1...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
message news:dcjsp09a6kfr4pl99...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:08:08 -0500, greyhound <x...@ncweb.com>
wrote:
>
> >On 19 Nov 2004 04:34:13 GMT, dfrnt...@aol.com (Leah) wrote:
> >
> >>>"Sionnach" rhyf...@msn.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>> When my students complain that they lose
> >>>> their puppies as soon as they see a squirrel,
> >>>> I deadpan,
Kinda like HOWE she done when she was
told her RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT
Rottie just MURDERED a little innocent
DEAD DOG in the park, JUST LIKE HOWE
she done when her OTHER STUDENT told
her her dogs had just MURDERED her HOWES
kat, thanks to leah's TRAINING.
> >>>> "Well, you have to be more interesting than the squirrel."
That's sheer idiocy.
> >>> And if your students have properly bred
> >>> Jack Russells, that's literally impossible.
That's on accHOWENT of you CAN'T "make
yourself MOORE INTERESTING than a squirrel."
You'll just have to LEARN HOWE to HOWEtwit the dog.
> >>The point is
THAT'S the POINT.
ALL behavior problems are CAUSED BY mishandling.
> >> that it's literally impossible for any breed,
It's only IMPOSSIBLE if you bribe choke
shock beat and lock your dogs in boxes.
> >> unless the dog has been heavily and purposefully
> >> proofed to ignore small furry running creatures.
It only takes a few minutes to train a
dog not to REFLEX to situations and
circumstances of his environment, if
you know HOWE.
> >I don't think that was Sarah's point.
The POINT is, we got LIARS DOG ABUSERS
COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE
MENTAL CASES who BLAME the DOG for their
not being able to HOWEtwit the cunning of the
domestic puppy dog.
>> I think you're very well aware that all dogs are not alike.
Well THAT'S HOWE COME you can't train
EVERY DOG NEARLY INSTANTLY.
>> It is literally impossible, to use your words,
Only on accHOWENT of these lying dog abusing
mental cases DENY their own words.
>> for some breeds/dogs with high prey drive to be
>> "proofed" to ignore small furry running creatures.
Well THAT'S the PROBLEM. You CANNOT "PROOF"
a behavior YOU NEVER TRAINED on accHOWENT
of you don't know HOWE.
As a PROFESSIONAL TRAINER the DEFINITION
of "PROOFING" is HURT the dog for MAKING A
MISTAKE.
Where's your TRAINING to EXXXTINGUISH
the behavior PRYOR to your "PROOFING."
Here's a HINT: You train and break ALL behaviors
the same same same same way, using EFFEFCTIVE
NON PHYSICAL CONDITIONING and PRAISE.
>> It's hard-wired,
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
In PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAINER talk "HARD-
WIRED" means you can't train the dog on accHOWENT
of YOU DON'T KNOW HOWE.
>> it runs through their veins,
That's MALARKEY.
> >it's their very existence,
BWEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
YOU'LL DIE DEFENDING YOUR INSANITY.
> > to chase and kill small furry running creatures.
Like leah's recent STUDENTS and culprit aka kelly
aka metta's dogs... and most of the rest of these
lying dog abusing punk thug coward MENTAL
CASES who HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER
dogs and try to get HOWET callin THAT, trainin:
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
> I'd like to butt in here,
INDEEDY!
Welcome "jack"!
Looks like the Institute realeased you guys for
a early Thanksgivin Day celebration so you won't
miss being invited to your family's HOWES over
the holiday. That was BRILLIANT of the staff.
> please,
The Amazing Puppy Wizard LOVES it when you BEG, tommy.
> and respectfully disagree.
Are you disagreeing RESPECTFULLY as tommy
soronsen or gentleman jack or lyingdogDUMMY,
the notoriHOWES lying dog abusing mental case
who beats an chokes an shocks dogs to HOWEs
break them?
> Retriever (and other hunting breed) trainers
Like you an lying frosty dahl?
> have been doing just that, for ages.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM?
> I.e., "proofing" hard-charging, *extremely* "driven"
> hunting dogs, from wildly chasing down various critters,
> e.g., a wounded pheasant, duck, etc., unless it's on
> command.
IOW, the EXXXPERTS on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS have
been PROVEN to be LYING DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASES, EXXXACTLY as The Amazing
Puppy Wizard has been showing based on their
own QUOTED CASE HISTORIES.
> In fact,
You can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamened
MOORE, tommy, on accHOWENT of you're a lying
dog abusing mental case.
> that's precisely what field trials and hunt tests are all
about.
DUH-OH?
> And doing it at great distances, too.
And you can't do THAT withHOWET SHOCKING the dog.
HOWE do you suppose they done that pryor
to shock collars, tommy?
> With every fiber of their being shaking and
> trembling with the excitement of the hunt,
> they can and *must* obey the commands
> of their handler,
That's EZ to do if you know HOWE, tommy.
When a dog is "IN DRIVE" like that they'll
DO ANY THING YOU SAY. Ask LeeCharlesKelley.
> no matter what their "hard-wired"
> instincts otherwise tell them.
PRECISELY, tommy. As The Amazing Puppy
Wizard was just SAYIN, these MENTAL CASES
have been blowin smoke up HOWER arses.
THANK YOU for straightening them HOWET.
HOWEver, as with ALL behaviors which are
REPRESSED instead of TRAINED, the behavior
only CHANGES to other, seemingly non related,
often worse, behaviors as TRAINsfer or replacement
or anxiHOWESNESS relief mechanisms.
NHOWE they're blowin smoke in HOWER faces,
thanks to you, tommy..
> They can be stopped and turned around
> while engaged in hot pursuit, or made to
> "honor" the hot pursuit of a brace mate, etc.
Yeah. But you don't know HOWE to DO THAT
withHOWET HURTING the dog, tommy.
REMEMBER?
> No, this can't be done simply by making yourself
> "more interesting than the squirrel," as Leah suggests,
Of curse not. That's INSANE.
> but it can be and is done ROUTINELY, using
> the full-range of OP and CC options available
> to any trainer who chooses to use them (R+, R-,
> P+, P-, yada yada yada).
You mean if you HURT the dog ENOUGH
CONSISTENTLY EVERY TIME till the dog
NEVER does it again, eh tommy?
> No, I've never personally trained a Jack
> (doggone, I like that name!)
Yeah. That's HOWE COME you're usin it as a alias,
you miserable anonymHOWES lying dog abusing
punk thug coward mental case.
> not to chase rabbits, or to only chase them on
> command, but I'm having a hard time understanding
> why I couldn't.
Perhaps you can't FIT your SHOCK COLLAR
on a little doggy like a JRT?
> No, I almost certainly couldn't do it using R+ alone,
That's curiHOWES, considerin HOWE you use
R+ for all other behaviors, like HOWEsbreakin.
> and I wouldn't waste my time trying.
Of curse not. HOWEver, you'd TRAIN the
dog four to six times FASTER and MOORE
PROFICIENTLY if you didn't rely on pain
fear force intimidation avoidance bribery
and confinement to a box, tommy.
But that's YOUR PREFERENCE, tommy.
Can't teach a old dog new tricks if they
ain't got the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit
the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.
> But with the help of an e-collar, or a check cord,
> and some good ol' CC and OP, I have no reason
> to think that I wouldn't be successful.
UNLESS the police was watchin...
then you'd go to the MENTAL HOWES
for the CRIMINALLY INSANE.
> Anyway,
You mean, anyHOWE, tommy.
> that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
Yeah... just like leah done when she learned
abHOWET clicker trainin bein the end all of
dog trainin and learned all abHOWET behaviorISM
from dr. ian dunbar.
BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> PS: Drats. I had hoped to see fewer faces here
There ARE "fewer faces" here abHOWETS, tommy.
Your pal mental shelly ain't postin here abHOWETS
nodoGgamened MOORE and professor SCRUFF
SHAKE has pretty much limited his advice to dog
food and puppy puke.
> upon my return from Texas, what with all those
> bellicose threats from commie pinko liberals
> that they would leave the country if Bush won.
malinda's on her way North.
> Maybe y'all are just still packing?
Naaah. You haven't been takin your medications
again, eh tommy?
> Heh.
Heh heh.
--
>
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
Oh, bye the bye, here's you beatin a dog to
HOWEsbreak IT, tommy:
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsome...@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jm...@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogst...@aol.com (DogStar716)
wrote:
>
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >
> >Uh huh :)
>
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
>
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
> >>list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
> >>matter how loud you scream otherwise.
> >
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on a list
> >to use Koehlers
> >methods or teach his methods.
>
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
> every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
> hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
> Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
>
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
>
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever
> >wrote it knows nothing about PR based training:
> >
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in
> >Positive Reinforcement
> >Only training systems"
> >
> >You cannot use PR only.
>
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
> other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
> You know, the PPers.
>
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
>
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
>
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
>
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would
> >realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.
>
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
> Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
> including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
> limits.
>
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
> sand.
>
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.
>
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
>
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
> enough.
>
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper
> >leash correction as I
> >do not rely on a leash to control or teach my dog.
>
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
> suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
> the advent of leash laws.
>
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
> Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.
>
> That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
> just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.
>
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the
> >start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what
> >I don't like.
>
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
> for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
> rest of us.
>
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
>
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
> you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
> behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
> informed discussion with you.
>
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
> denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
> RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE,
> even after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
> Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
> care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
> are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
> not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
> to reply via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsome...@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omh...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you
> >to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
> it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
> Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
> at the wrong time, etc.
>
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard enough
> >if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of
> >his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
> evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
> quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
> half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
> more discipline.
>
> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for
> >housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior,
> >stealing, trying to get on your bed
> >at night and dog on dog aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
> swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
> constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
> in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
> serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
> for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
> occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
> careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
> was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
> either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
> going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
> compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
> whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
> life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
> and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
> and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
> (no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
> dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
> his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
> couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
> wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
> stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
> life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
>
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
>
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
> reply via e-mail
Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking
Backslider.
"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."
"Housebreaking Problems:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment.
Make certain he is equipped with a collar
and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside.
Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
and close observation, you will not have to do
much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling.
To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
and then backslides, the method of correction
differs somewhat.
In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.
The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him
sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.
If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish him again for the same thing.
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.
It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.
The Puppy Wizard
The only SPIN you gotta CON-TROLL is your
own posted case history. You can't train a dog
not to eat garbage or steal from the C-HOWENTER
any MOORE than you can train a terroror not to
chase vermin.
You're a FRAUD, leah.
JACK just PROVED IT for you and your pals
so you don't have to accept The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's WORD on it.
You're a LIAR a DOG ABUSER a COWARD
and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL
CASE and THAT'S in your own posted case history.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041119150447...@mb-m19.aol.com...
The Puppy Wizard
You shock and choke your dogs on
accHOWENT of you don't have the INTELLECT
to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic
puppy dog.
Your own dog is DYIN from STRESS INDUCED
AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE, aka The Puppy
Wizard's SYNDROME.
You got it too, BTW.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
"Gwen Watson" <gw...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:cnlkd9$imm$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
Gwen Watson
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:17:44 -0600, Gwen Watson <gw...@ig.utexas.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
>>
>> No, I almost certainly
>>
>>>couldn't do it using R+ alone, and I wouldn't waste my time trying.
>>>But with the help of an e-collar,
>
>
>>Yeah well sure that works
>
>
> Which was my point. That it's not "literally impossible," nor is it
> even just a little bit impossible.
>
>
>>but me being more interesting alone
>>isn't going to work.
>
>
> I don't know, Gwen. With the right push-up bra...
Nah my dogs don't care about that. You have
them mistaken for my husband.<g>
>
>
>>It is amazing what NL can do as well
>>as an e-collar to curb the ole hard wired instincts.
>
>
>>I imagine it could even work on men.<g> For certain
>>things I will not go into.
>
>
> Has Fred told you about The Big Secret yet?
Nope he hasn't.
>
> How a few of us, and only a few of us (all men, of course), can easily
> deactivate *any* e-collar (from up to a mile away) by...well, I can't
> really tell you how. Otherwise it wouldn't be The Big Secret anymore.
I don't expect he will be telling me either.
>
> I looked for you down in Texas, Gwen, but it appears that you're
> probably already on the way up to Canada, right?
You didn't look for me or you would have found me. I am pretty
easy to find in my local area and everyone or almost everyone knows
who "we" DH and myself are. Nah I think Ireland sounds much
much better than Canada. Besides I wanted to go to Costa Rica.
>
> Will you be converting to Islam, too?
No, Catholic, I am moving to Costa Rica you see or
Ireland. <g>
>
> Heh.
>
Heh!
Gwen
Leah
You want to move to Ireland too???
I want to jump right into those Irish Spring commercials. :}
The Puppy Wizard
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041119125757...@mb-m19.aol.com...
> >greyhound x...@ncweb.com wrote:
>
> >>Which is why I finish my statement by telling
> >> my beginner puppy students
Like your recent graduate student Rottie who
RECENTLY MURDERED a little innocent DEAD
DOG in the park thanks to your SOCIALIZATION
and PAW PATROL since IT was ten weeks old?
> > that they need to run up a tree chittering,
> > like I said in the original post. :}
You think THAT woulda worked for your other
STUDENT who's dogs MURDERED her own
DEAD HOWES BUNNY, leah?
> >Very amusing,
Yeah. You blamed it on PRAY DRIVE, just
like HOWE your mentally ill pal culprit aka
kelly aka metta blamed PRAY DRIVE for
her own dogs MURDERIN her own DEAD
KAT, leah?
> > but not terribly helpful in terms of educating
> > people about their breeds.
You want FUNNY & EDUCATIONAL, leah?
> No,
DoGgamened tootin you don't. HOWEver, The
Amazing Puppy Wizard CAN'T RESIST QUOTING
YOU HURTING and MURDERING INNOCENT
DEAD CRITTERS with your TRAINING METHODS:
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart."
YOUR STUDENT.
--------------------------------------
> but it is my prelude to educating them about proofing.
Yeah. HOWEver, pryor to "PROOFING" you gotta
TRAIN the dog or you can't PROOF the behavior.
"PROOFING" MEANS HURT THE DOG for makin
a MISTAKE, leah. PROOFING is done AFTER
"training."
Of curse if the TRAININ is done pupperly there AIN'T
NUTHIN TO PROOF, leah. OtherWIZE, your "TRAINING"
FAILED.
So, back to hurting dogs and lying abHOWET it, eh leah?
> As I detailed in the first post,
You can't train a dog not to chase GARBAGE
or food on the C-HOWENTER, let alone train
a terrorier not to chase a squirrel, leah.
WHO ARE YOU BULLSHITTING?
> and both you and Sarah apparently missed
> (since you both pulled this statement out of context).
Let's talk abHOWET your REALLY BAD DAY
when your RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT
Rottie RECENTLY MURDERED a little innocent
DEAD DOG you been SOCIALIZING since IT
was ten weeks old, leah:
From: Leah (dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF)
Subject: Re: de-lurking with puppy questions
Date: 2003-07-21 07:56:07 PST
>"LytaA" lytaal...@babylon5fan.com wrote:
>
> I was guilty of accusing The Puppy Wizard of being
> the resident troll - until I took a deep breath and read
> his posts correctly. He feels it vitally important to point
> out that not all advice is good advice, considering that
> alot of well-intentioned posters here have actually made
> devastating and **fatal** mistakes with their own canines.
Name one.
Really Bad Day
Date: 2004-03-21 17:34:07 PST
HOWEDY leah,
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF> wrote in message
news:20040321194728...@mb-m15.aol.com...
>
> The mom of a graduate student
BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You're no dog trainer, you're a FRAUD.
> interrupted my class,
Class??? You don't have trainin classes you
teach people to throw treats to dogs for mindless
unthinking behaviors and tell folks to jerk and
choke and shock dogs when bribing and avoiding
behaviors doesn't work an then you try to get HOWET
callin THAT, trainin.
> in a state of shock,
AnyWON who'd trust you to train them to handle
their dog was in a state of shock or takin anti psychotic
meds before they started.
> to tell me that her rottie had killed a little
> dog at a dog park today.
Tough break. R.I.P., dog.
-----------------------
> And also, as I said in the first post,
You're a FRAUD a LIAR a DOG ABUSER and a
ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASE.
> this is what was said to ME when I wanted
> advice on how to distract Madigan from squirrels.
BWEEEEEEAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You had to break her of atttacking you first.
REMEMBER, leah?
> "You have to be more interesting than the squirrel."
That's SHEER IDIOCY.
> Which was less than helpful.
INDEEDY.
But THAT'S YOUR ADVICE. Care to SEE
your own POSTED CASE HISTORY in
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
on Google, leah?
> And which is why I have added a punchline.
You mean, make squirrel S-HOWENDS instead
of making CHIMPANZEE S-HOWENDS and doin
the MONKEY MACARENA, leah?
Ain't hard to do:
"spin around and start skipping in the
other direction, making chimpanzee
sounds.
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
"Your goal is going to be to teach your dog
that every time he sees another dog, something
good is going to happen.
So as soon as he notices another dog,
Scream "My dog has aggression issues."
They'll avoid you. > :}
you begin to praise like mad and stuff his
face with hot dogs. When the dog is out
of sight, the praise and treats stop."
SEE?
O.K., NHOWE YOU TRY?:
> Canine Action Dog Trainer
> http://www.canineaction.com
"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."
From: Leah (dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF)
Subject: Re: de-lurking with puppy questions
Date: 2003-07-21 07:56:07 PST
>"LytaA" lytaal...@babylon5fan.com wrote:
>
> I was guilty of accusing The Puppy Wizard of being
> the resident troll - until I took a deep breath and read
> his posts correctly. He feels it vitally important to point
> out that not all advice is good advice, considering that
> alot of well-intentioned posters here have actually made
> devastating and **fatal** mistakes with their own canines.
Name one.
Really Bad Day
Date: 2004-03-21 17:34:07 PST
HOWEDY leah,
"Leah" <dfrnt...@aol.comMURK-OFF> wrote in message
news:20040321194728...@mb-m15.aol.com...
>
> The mom of a graduate student
BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You're no dog trainer, you're a FRAUD.
> interrupted my class,
Class??? You don't have trainin classes you
teach people to throw treats to dogs for mindless
unthinking behaviors and tell folks to jerk and
choke and shock dogs when bribing and avoiding
behaviors doesn't work an then you try to get HOWET
callin THAT, trainin.
> in a state of shock,
AnyWON who'd trust you to train them to handle
their dog was in a state of shock or takin anti psychotic
meds before they started.
> to tell me that her rottie had killed a little
> dog at a dog park today.
Tough break. R.I.P., dog.
-----------------------
Looks like your MONKEY MACARENA didn't work, eh leah?
That'd be enough to make a MENTAL CASE HOWETA
anyWON, wouldn't it, leah:
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.
Suja
> No, I've never personally trained a Jack (doggone, I like that name!)
> not to chase rabbits, or to only chase them on command, but I'm having
> a hard time understanding why I couldn't.
The wiring of the dog has something to do with it. What works with
breeds that were bred specifically to work with people and take
direction from them, may not necessarily work with others that were
designed to work independently. I would think that has a little
something to do with why you wouldn't want to take any old dog of any
old breed and teach it to become a super duper retriever. Perhaps also
the reason why certain breeds are overrepresented in achieving certain
performance metrics, be it obedience or schutzhund. I would think that
it would be a fool's errand to make a dog reliably do something that is
completely contrary to its wiring.
Suja
The Puppy Wizard
"Suja" <span...@scs.gmu.edu> wrote in message
news:%dvnd.3563$SA.181@lakeread02...
> Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
>
> > No, I've never personally trained a Jack
IN FACT, tommy sorenson has NEVER trained
a dog in his life. All he does is jerk and choke
and shock them till he gets a dog that can DEAL
with it and then he's got hisself a trained dog.
> (doggone, I like that name!)
INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of it ain't tommy's
real name on accHOWENT of he's a anonymHOWES
lying dog abusing mental case.
> > not to chase rabbits, or to only chase them
> > on command, but I'm having a hard time
> > understanding why I couldn't.
>
> The wiring of the dog has something to do with it.
That so, suja? Perhaps you're missin tommy's POINT.
tommy SEZ a dog is a dog is a dog and you're a FRAUD.
> What works with breeds that were bred specifically
> to work with people and take direction from them,
> may not necessarily work with others that were
> designed to work independently.
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
> I would think that has a little something to
> do with why you wouldn't want to take any
> old dog of any old breed and teach it to
> become a super duper retriever.
No. THAT'S on accHOWENT of tommy relies
on SHEER LUCK and VIOLENCE.
> Perhaps also the reason why certain breeds are
> overrepresented in achieving certain performance
> metrics, be it obedience or schutzhund.
That so, suja? You mean "PERFORMANCE METRICS"
like your own dog bolting after a innocent critter and
pullin you to the grHOWEND thanks to you jerkin an
chokin IT on your pronged spiked pinch choke collar
and breakin your doGgamened arm and your own
dog attacking your new OPPOSITE SEX "RESCUE"
Malamute and put them both in the emergency HOWEspital
and then you returned the new RESCUE to the P-HOWEND,
where MAGICKALLY she F-HOWEND herself in a NEW
HOWES with a SAME SEX dog and was eatin HOWETA
the same BHOWEL the next day.
REMEMBER, suja?
> I would think that it would be a fool's errand
> to make a dog reliably do something that is
> completely contrary to its wiring.
You mean like C-HOWENTER SURFIN or GARBAGE
BIN RAIDING or EATIN POISON or not attacking
innocent critters, suja?
Or heeling on leash withHOWET breaking your arm?
> Suja
You bums can't post here abHOWETS no doGgamenedMOORE.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
From: Mike (m.bi...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Works like a charm.
Nice side benefit there.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
From: AIMEE (country...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST
I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.
I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".
Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).
The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point at the
mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".
That made him afraid to relieve himself in the house
or infront of me.
After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.
When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".
This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...
Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.
Thank you, Jerry, for all you help. You've been a
blessing to all of us.
AIMEE
===================
From: AIMEE (country...@yahoo.com):
I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.
I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.
I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.
My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.
For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!
I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be left home alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.
Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better. We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.
For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID
NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.
We simply eliminated the nagging and the
acting out to get NEGATIVE attention from
one another since we weren't getting
the POSITIVE attention we wanted.
So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS
METHODS WORK.
It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's alot
of blame that we have to accept, but once we
realize that we've caused these problems to
arise, we can strive to make things better.
AIMEE
=================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry M Male" <larry...@yahoo.com>
To: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePupp...@EarthLink.Net>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Cocker with ear infection
>
> Thanks Jerry,
>
>
> I enjoyed the scientific discussion debunking
> operant conditioning for teaching thinking animals.
> Humans think by forming concepts. All of their
> knowledge is held as a hierarchy of concepts
> (more complex concepts defined in terms of
> simpler ones). In my mind, to treat such a being
> as a B. F. Skinner robot is criminal.
>
> I don't believe that dogs hold their knowledge
> as concepts as do humans but their ability to
> think is unquestionable.
>
> Operant conditioning doesn't utilize an animal's
> ability to think. When you show a dog what you
> want them to do, then they are able to grasp the
> problem; they are able to think about it and to
> integrate possible solutions into their mind.
>
> But with operant conditioning a trainer is actually
> hiding the problem to be solved from the animal.
>
> For example, it is good for your dog's attention to
> be upon you. When heeling, he will notice your
> movements, your subtle hand signals, your facial
> expressions and he will immediately sense your
> next command. But the clicker trainers have forgotten
> the reasons why a dog's attention should be upon you.
>
> So they condition a dog to unnaturally cock his head
> to stare upward at you. The dog doesn't appreciate
> the meaning of this and neither does the trainer. Since
> this unnatural behavior is prized in the obedience ring,
> the clicker trainers are motivated to condition it.
>
> Don't you think that the "high five" hand shake that
> clicker trainers use to motivate novices looks like a
> Nazi salute (an unthinking reflex). It is not at all like
> a warm hand shake from a loving companion, is it?
>
> Some of your testimonials bring tears to my eyes. I
> love to see how some "thinking" people appreciate
> your methods.
>
> --Larry
>----- Original Message -----
> Subject: GREMLINS
>From: "Larry" To: "The Puppy Wizard"
><thepupp...@earthlink.net Sent:
> Friday, July 02, 2004
I live in an apartment complex that accepts dogs. I
have recommended your web site and your training
manual to quite a few pet owners. Unfortunately, it
seems to be human nature for them to not address
training until their dog's behavior problems become
serious.
Several people have seen me out working with Kit. They
cannot believe it when I am able to call a 7 week old
pup away from them. Those who have pups of their own
say that they are waiting until their pups are older
in order to begin traini ng.Itellthemtobeginnow.
But they don'tknowwhattodo.
Have you ever seen the movie "Gremlins"? The Mogwai
comes with three rules: 1) keep out of bright light,
2) keep away from water and 3) never feed after
midnight. Of course disaster befalls the new owners
because they don't take these rules seriously. When I
last watched this movie I thought to myself, how
similar it was to getting a new puppy. Just as does a
Mogwai, a puppy has a nature that demands proper
handling and just as it will with a cute little
Mogwai, mishandling will turn your cute little puppy
into a gremlin.
--Larry
Subject: PetsMart Puppy Playtime
Date: 2004-07-17 12:05:36 PST
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry"
To: "The Puppy Wizard" <thepupp...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 2:48 PM
Subject: Kit rules PetsMart Puppy Playtime
Hello Jerry,
The experts say to take your puppy to puppy
classes to socialize them with other puppies.
Kit went to Puppy Playtime at PetsMart today.
I guess that I fail to see what Kit could learn
from those unruly puppies except perhaps
some bad behaviors.
Anyway he mostly lay there quietly and watched.
He wasn't' scared or apprehensive and he didn't
mind approaching other dogs if they seemed willing.
But it was a mad house-a beagle sounding off, a
boxer jumping on everyone, a bull dog pushing his
way around, a Great Dane tripping over everyone,
a little pug barking and poor little Kit getting trampled
because he was so much smaller than everyone else.
Once, he got a bit defensive and snarled and yipped
when this one bigger terrier kept picking on him
(scratching him hard).
Several people commented to me how calm Kit
seemed to be. They wondered if it were a breed
characteristic.
I told them that it was my training method, but
most of them seemed to just get that look in
their eye that says "Yea, yea".
But this one lady seemed interested so I referred
her to your web site. She had a rescued dog which
she held in her arms and it would snap at other
dogs when she gave them any attention.
She would immediately grab her little dog's muzzle
and squeeze it tightly. She finally confided in me
that it did the same to her husband and to her 25lb
cat.
I told her that it was going to get worse and
worse if she didn't address it immediately.
I know that carrying that dog around like she
does and tucking him tight under her arm
when another dog approaches is exasperating
her dog's behavior. I told her so. She said that
she would immediately go to doggydoright.com.
I hope she does.
--Larry
Tara
>
> >"Sionnach" rhyf...@msn.com wrote:
> > For the record, Leah, would you mind telling me exactly how many JRTs you
> >know that have a reliable OFF-LEASH recall off of prey?
>
> None. But I don't believe it's across-the-board impossible to achieve, do you?
Impossible to achieve? I don't think so. AM I as cock sure as you were
in your earlier post? Nope.
Get a 99% reliable recall on a pure Bloodhound and get back to us on
your success. Do that on a Husky and a Greyhound as well, and you've
discovered something pretty amazing. Consistently get results with all
of the above while the dogs are in full prey drive, (remember, to a
*high* degree of reliability) and I'll come down and sit at your feet
myself and learn what you know.
> If they can train wild animals to come to the bars of their cage and
> voluntarily spread out their paws so their nails can be trimmed, I believe any
> animal can be trained to do just about anything.
Sure, an animal can be trained to do just about anything. But that's not
saying that every animal can be trained to do anything ALL of the time,
no matter what the circumstances, at the drop of a hat.
You're basically comparing apples and oranges with this.
Tara
Leah
> Consistently get results with all
>of the above while the dogs are in full prey drive, (remember, to a
>*high* degree of reliability) and I'll come down and sit at your feet
>myself and learn what you know.
I didn't mean to imply I thought I could do it. Just that I believe it can be
done.
---
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
The Puppy Wizard
"Tara" <tarag...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:419E9978...@verizon.net...
> Leah wrote:
> >
> > >"Sionnach" rhyf...@msn.com wrote:
> > > For the record, Leah, would you mind telling
> > > me exactly how many JRTs you know that
> > > have a reliable OFF-LEASH recall off of prey?
A dog is a dog, dog lovers.
> > None.
HOWE many dogs of ANY breed do you
bums know that'll call off of ANY THING,
INCLUDING the GARBAGE BIN or the
food on the C-HOWENTER?
> > But I don't believe it's across-the-board impossible
> > to achieve, do you?
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
Let's try to solve C-HOWENTER SURFIN POO
EATIN and ESCAPING your SHOCK FENCES
pryor to talkin abHOWET STUFF that you got
NO CHANCE IN HEEL of trainin a dog to do
withHOWET a shock collar EVEN IF you got
your SHOCK COLLAR SALESMEN FRAUDreck
and tommy sorenson and their lying dog abusing
punk thug coward pals lying frosty dahl and lying
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, and janet boss, heelpin.
> Impossible to achieve?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students GET
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT TOTAL NON
PHYSICAL CON-TROLL of ALL behaviors in ALL dogs
and ALL handlers all over the Whole Wild World.
You MENTAL CASES call them LIARS and FORGERIES
by The Amazing Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT of "NOT
ALL DOGS CAN BE TRAINED NEARLY INSTANTLY
withHOWET HURTING them."
AIN'T THAT CORRECT, taragreen2.
Your "LEAVE IT COMMAND" will PROVE
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's POINT, taragreen2.
> I don't think so.
Duh?
Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK, dog lovers. "Luck is
for SUCKERS," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
> AM I as cock sure as you were in your earlier post? Nope.
Of curse not. On accHOWENT of you don't know
HOWE to train a dog withHOWET HURTIN IT.
> Get a 99% reliable recall on a pure Bloodhound
> and get back to us on your success. Do that on
> a Husky and a Greyhound as well, and you've
> discovered something pretty amazing.
BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
Can you say "my daddy sells sea shells by the sea
SHORE" fifteen times quickly in succession?
By the time you could TRAIN yourself to DO SO,
ANY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
could have likeWIZE been able to train ANY dog
to do ANY behavior.
> Consistently get results with all of the above
> while the dogs are in full prey drive, (remember,
> to a *high* degree of reliability)
That's not a problem, taragreen2, if you know
HOWE to train a dog using EFFECTIVE NON
PHYSCIAL SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL
techniques as taught in your FREE copy of The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.
> and I'll come down and sit at your feet myself
Take off your shoes and turn your face...
you're SETTIN at The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's feet.
> and learn what you know.
You'll learn what's in your FREE copy of
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual first.
Then you'll KNOW what The Amazing Puppy Wizard KNOWS.
> > If they can train wild animals to come to the
> > bars of their cage and voluntarily spread out
> > their paws so their nails can be trimmed,
Sez HOWER EXXXPERT leah who can't even
train her RECENT GRADUATE STUDENT Rottie
who RECENTLY GRADUATED her SOCIALIZATION
and OBEDIENCE training classes and PAW PATROL
since IT was ten weeks old to RECENTLY MURDER
a innocent little DEAD DOG in the park, and her other
recent student's dogs to MURDER her HOWES bunny.
> > I believe any animal can be trained to do just
> > about anything.
EXXXCEPT C-HOWENTER SURFING HOLE
DIGGING BARKING WHINING CHEWING
MHOWETHING ESCAPING GARBAGE /
POISON EATING and MURDEREING INNOCENT
DEAD CRITTERS.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
You gonna teach us your LEAVE IT COMMAND,
taragreen2? THAT will PROVE you're a lying dog
abusing MENTAL CASE and THAT'S HOWE COME
you can't train a dog not to steal garbage or eat
poison or ESCAPE your SHOCK FENCE if you
aint standing right there ready to HURT and
INTIMIDATE them someMOORE.
Isn't that correct, taragreen2.
Don't you think it's time to give up the
ghost of prehistoric dog training methods
like jerking and choking a dog on your
PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE
collar while SCREAMIN "LEAVE IT"
to train dogs not to EAT POISON when
you ain't standing there ready to HURT
and INTIMIDATE them someMOORE,
taragreen2?
Perhaps bein a multi faceted substance
abuser and active long term incurable
MENTAL CASE has caused you to fail
to be able to learn HOWE to train dogs
EFFECTIVELY, taragreen2?
> Sure, an animal can be trained to do just about anything.
Like C-HOWENTER SURFIN and poison
proofin, or stealin food from the kids like
HOWE marie's been ASKIN, taragreen2?
OR MURDERING YOUR OWN CRITTERS.
> But that's not saying that every animal can
> be trained to do anything ALL of the time,
O.K. Let's go with that for the moment. As
an EXXXAMPLE of SOME critters who COULD
be TRAINED not to steal food from the C-HOWENTER
or EAT POISON or steal garbage, HOWE would
you TRAIN THEM NOT TO DO IT, taragreen2?
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
ASK marie, taragreen2. She was just told to
SHOCK her dog or LOCK IT IN A BOX as the
ONLY other alternative to HURTING IT, which
WON'T WORK if you're not standing there
ready to HURT and INTIMIATE the dog, UNLIKE
your LEAVE IT COMMAND.
REMEMBER?
So please don't hesitate to tell us your SECRET
on accHOWENT of NO WON got NO METHOD
to break those pesky little problems.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
YOU'RE FRAUDS LIARS and DOG ABUSERS.
But THAT'S only on accHOWENT of you're
COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE
MENTAL CASES. And your LEAVE IT COMMAND
PROVES IT, taragreen2.
But since you won't DIVULGE your SECRET to
trainin a dog NOT to STEAL STUFF, HOWE does
your "EFFECTIVE LEAVE IT COMMAND" train a
dog NOT to STEAL STUFF when you ain't standin
there ready to HURT and INTIMIDATE IT someMOORE?
We'll simply have to rely on your own posted MENTAL
HEELTH CASE HISTORY to DISCREDIT you.
BWEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> no matter what the circumstances, at the drop of a hat.
Let's you and your MENTALLY ILL LYING DOG
ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS solve marie's
C-HOWENTER SURFIN and stealin food from the
babys and raiding the garbage can, eh taragreen2?
Let's not stack the deck against you bums.
Just tell us HOWE to TRAIN a dog not to steal food.
> You're basically comparing apples and oranges with this.
Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing
Puppy Wizard LOWERED the bar and offered
you bums a OPPORTUNITY to PROVE your
EXXXPERTISE with a REAL LIFE trainin problem
from within your own ranks of incompetent
mental cases who can't train your own dogs
to the SIMPLEST behaviors like not stealin food
or eatin Gorilly Glue and shittin the bed all
over the bloody kitchen floor like your pal perry
aka bencajungirl's DEAD DOG Maggie who'd
been teachin her DEAD DOG Maggie not to
STEAL STUFF usin the SAME METHOD janet
boss used to train her dog to swallow any thing
IT can STEAL and got intestinal surgery over it,
just like marie IS ASKING YOU FOR YOUR HEELP.
> Tara
Go ahead, taragreen2.
YOUR LEAVE IT COMMAND.
Here's what janet's LEAVE IT COMMAND taught Maggie:
"bentcajungirl" <perr...@bellsouth.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:1Y5Aa.75956$Jk1....@fe09.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> Husband and I left on bike ride this morning. Left
> dogs in house. Maggie the youngster got into a jar
> of Gorilla Glue. She is a 1 yo Rat/Boston mix.
> About 15 pounds. It was all over the floor, it foams
> and expands as it sets. And the sofa. I can see
> evidence of some of it on her bottom lip whiskers,
> but don't know what signs to look for if she ingested
> any. The jar says possibly harmful or fatal if swallowed.
> Contains prepolymized MDI, Diphenyl-methane-4.4,
> Disocyanate..
>
> I am going to call the vet and see what he recommends.
> Any experience with stuff like this, let me know.
>
> Perry
> bentcajungirl
From: bentcajungirl (perr...@bellsouth.nospam.net)
Subject: Re: Maggie and the Gorilla Glue incident
Date: 2003-05-25 21:23:32 PST
I called the vet again and I expained her puke was dark..
I don't know if it's blood tinged or something is coming
up with it.
One of her spells it was grainy and dark, like she had
eaten and vomited her food. The last time it was just
dark like it was blood tinged.
I have a white bedspread. ( but it wasn't food, she
hasn't eaten since early this morning over 16 hours ago)
I live in the boondocks and there is no emergency care.
I have heard good things about this vet, and don't want
to go off on him like Terms of Endearment Shirley Mclaine.
I plan to keep a close eye on Maggie and if she
digresses much I will make a earnest request to
this vet that he see her.
Perry
bentcajungirl
From: bentcajungirl (perr...@bellsouth.nospam.net)
Subject: Re: Maggie and the Gorilla Glue incident
Date: 2003-05-25 21:10:09 PST
Just spoke with the vet. I really feel like I'm
getting blown off. He said to remove source
of water and give her honey. And call him in
the morning.
Perry
bentcajungirl
From: bentcajungirl (perr...@bellsouth.nospam.net)
Subject: Re: Maggie and the Gorilla Glue incident
Date: 2003-05-25 23:20:47 PST
I downloaded the product toxicity information and
took the printout to the vet. He said according to
the information, the advice from Poison Control
would be supportive. In other words, no specific
antidote, just treat symptoms.
Perry
bentcajungirl
From: bentcajungirl (perr...@bellsouth.nospam.net)
Subject: Re: Maggie and the Gorilla Glue incident
Date: 2003-05-26 05:28:49 PST
It's 7am, I am up. It's late compared to what Maggie
would have let me sleep til. The vet said to call around
8:30am. I am hoping for the best.
As far as the vet....I think probably he's been in
practice long enough that he followed his personal
protocol for not having patients flying in for non-
emergency visits.
One call, two calls, and then on the third call, when
he said to bring her in, he was all business, but I
guess his method of assuaging most panicky pet
owners is to be a bit aloof....at first.
Perry
bentcajungirl
From: bentcajungirl (perr...@bellsouth.nospam.net)
Subject: Maggie, my sweet Maggie
Date: 2003-05-26 13:52:18 PST
I just returned from the vet paying the balance on
emergency treatment and cremation services.
First thing, I knew the vet only slightly, I just
moved to this town and transferred to his office.
Took both dogs in for their checkups a couple of
months, but HE was not there, an associate looked
after the girls.
I am friends with his head honcho assistant/receptionist.
In this chain of events, I think he was being
conservative when I was calling about a "sick
dog", probably from experience dealing with
the average panicky dog owner.(on a holiday
weekend to boot)
My friend told him, oh no, when Perry says it's
important, it's important. He acknowledges that
treatment could've started sooner, but doubts
that it would have done any good.
My friend said the Gorilla Glue "ate up her insides".
I did not ask for details.
Considering the dog was actively vomiting blood
at the end, I'm sure it destroyed everything it came
in contact with throughout her gastrointestinal tract.
If you have a dog that's a chewer, by all means
pick up the toxic stuff. Anything and everything.
This jar of glue had been in the same accessible
place for the last month. So, who knows what
made her go for it?
I know, in my house, and shop I have lots of
things that need attention.
I miss my Maggie.
She was a special treat.
Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts.
I stopped on my way home at the lady's house who
owns Maggie parents. It's a combination that she
breeds often and regular. I guess you could call it
a neighborhood small scale puppy mill.
The lady is on fixed income and the puppy money
is a boost. Anyway they are the Rat/Boston mix,
like Maggie and I loved her combination.
I am in line for the next litter, pick of the females.
Perry
bentcajungirl
-----------------
Emily Carroll/Fluttervale
news:dcjsp09a6kfr4pl99...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:08:08 -0500, greyhound <x...@ncweb.com> wrote:
>
> >On 19 Nov 2004 04:34:13 GMT, dfrnt...@aol.com (Leah) wrote:
> >
> >>>"Sionnach" rhyf...@msn.com wrote:
> I'd like to butt in here, please, and respectfully disagree.
>
> Retriever (and other hunting breed) trainers have been doing just
> that, for ages. I.e., "proofing" hard-charging, *extremely* "driven"
> hunting dogs, from wildly chasing down various critters, e.g., a
> wounded pheasant, duck, etc., unless it's on command. In fact, that's
> precisely what field trials and hunt tests are all about. And doing it
> at great distances, too. With every fiber of their being shaking and
> trembling with the excitement of the hunt, they can and *must* obey
> the commands of their handler, no matter what their "hard-wired"
> instincts otherwise tell them. They can be stopped and turned around
> while engaged in hot pursuit, or made to "honor" the hot pursuit of a
> brace mate, etc.
While I'm not arguing your point, as it's a decent point, there is a great
difference between retrievers & terriers. Retrievers have been bred for 200
years to *obey* their handlers' directions. A retriever often is "handled"
and led to the bird, or at the very least is pointed in a general direction.
In addition, neither a retriever nor a pointer will generally get their paws
on a bird that isn't at least wounded. (Some get lucky--an acquaintance had
a Weim that managed to catch a live bird during a hunt test and was forever
convinced that she COULD catch one). A terrier doesn't typically get
direction nor do they have a wounded animal (at least to begin with).
Their prey drive isn't diminished, but translated into a different type of
drive. Terriers & hounds are bred to KILL. Gundogs aren't bred to kill the
birds, just find them and then retrieve the dead ones. It's a small but
important distinction. Retrievers are never suppossed to KILL the birds.
It's why retrievers will fetch sticks but terriers won't kill them.
--
Emily Carroll
http://www.fluttervale.com/kennel - Fluttervale Labradors
http://www.fluttervale.com/biography - Canine Biography