Disciplining Eli
Pat
other cats. Abelard has learned to take it in stride but the others are
still working out their best responses. Maybe because Abelard was his first
target and has had time to learn how not to provoke too much?
He doesn't bother Beatrice and won't challenge Tommy. Baby Eyes is getting
better at handling the attacks (not as good as Abelard), Billy is behind
her, and Lily is still pretty much a basket case when he goes for her.
The latest fight he picked was with Baby Eyes, and I got after him right
away. He ran into the bathroom to hide and sure was surprised when I shut
him in there and gave him a good talkin' to, then left him in there alone
for almost half an hour. When he came out he was much more polite and
subdued.
I plan to keep after him but for obvious reasons what I did today won't
always be possible. I'm actually afraid what he will learn out of it is that
he's only forbidden to start fights inside the house and will continue doing
his bad deeds outside. I can't be watching him 24/7 and he knows it.
What's a meowmie to do???
Pat
bathroom alone for half an hour, and came out contrite. I sure hope he
learns. Poor Lily was the "victim" this time, and she takes it very hard.
Karen
strong) but she is much better and learns to "break off".
"Pat" <pdavis...@fidnet.com> wrote in message
news:IsidnaUijcl...@fidnet.com...
mlbriggs
IMHO 1/2 hour isn't enough -- make it all day and night once to see how he
reacts. MLB
Karen
"mlbriggs" <mlbr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.09.28....@nospam.com...
If you do it too long, they won't connect the time out with the behaviour.
But it does have to be consistant. Every time he gets aggressive he needs
time out, or it won't connect either.
polonca12000
--
Polonca & Soncek
"Pat" <pdavis...@fidnet.com> wrote in message
news:IsidnaUijcl...@fidnet.com...
zuz...@webtv.net
> I'm sorry to report that he's still
> regularly harrassing and terrorizing the
> other cats. Abelard has learned to take
> it in stride but the others are still
> working out their best responses. Maybe
> because Abelard was his first target and
> has had time to learn how not to provoke
> too much?
> He doesn't bother Beatrice and won't
> challenge Tommy. Baby Eyes is getting
> better at handling the attacks (not as
> good as Abelard), Billy is behind her,
> and Lily is still pretty much a basket
> case when he goes for her.
> The latest fight he picked was with Baby
> Eyes, and I got after him right away. He
> ran into the bathroom to hide and sure
> was surprised when I shut him in there
> and gave him a good talkin' to, then
> left him in there alone for almost half
> an hour. When he came out he was much
> more polite and subdued.
Not for long, as is proved by your next post where he went right back to
attacking.
> I plan to keep after him but for obvious
> reasons what I did today won't always be
> possible.
This is a mistake and you're making things worse by doing so.
>I'm actually afraid what he
> will learn out of it is that he's only
> forbidden to start fights inside the
> house and will continue doing his bad
> deeds outside.
Or when you're not around.
>I can't be watching him
> 24/7 and he knows it.
> What's a meowmie to do???
Take a different approach that doesn't result in him hating the other
cats *more.*
Look at it this way. If you were constantly getting yelled at because of
someone you didn't care for, does that improve your relationship with
that person? Of course not. Instead, you begin to intensely dislike that
person even more. It's the same for cats and PUNISHMENT AND NEGATIVITY
DOES NOT WORK WITH CATS!! It only makes them find ways to exhibit the
same behavior in a covert fashion.
If a cat gets punished for attacking another cat, he doesn't understand
he's doing something wrong. He only associates the punishment with the
other cat and that makes him dislike the other cat even more. If you
want to work towards developing a good relationship between two cats,
you need to make them associate each other with ONLY positive things. No
yelling, no screaming, no slamming doors, scruffing or anything else.
Only praise, gentle petting and other good things like play and treats.
Even if there are hisses or growls, speak and pet the cat gently and
work towards getting the cat to understand that the other cat is not a
foe, a threat or the catalyst for him getting thrown in a room and
screamed at, but is instead a presence that results in things he finds
pleasant.
If you see something building up between two cats, get proacive *before*
someting happens and simply distract one with a gentle tone of voice, a
feather toy or a bit of petting, take his focus off the other cat and
then move him on to something else. There is no reason to do a time out
and, if you read between the lines in Karen's post, despite her claims
it supposedly works, she contradicts herself in the same message when
she admits that Pearl has not actually stopped the behavior but only
exhibits it to a lesser degree.
You'll get much farther with these cats if you only use methods that
give the cats reasons to **like** being around each other.
What you're doing now will not result in that.
Megan
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."
- W.H. Murray
Pat
<zuz...@webtv.net> wrote in
Your advice sounds good, but I don't see how I can implement it. It would
require constant vigilance until he is fully retrained, and most of the time
I don't see the beginning of any of the fights. Understand, it's not just
innocuous hissing and growling. He catches her off-guard and tries to kill
her.
Yesterday I did see him stalking her in the yard and warned him with my
voice, and he backed off.
The only thing I've ever seen bring two cats who don't get along together
has been a "common enemy" such as a new d-pet. I may try that one of these
days....
MaryL
Actually, it's very good advice, and positive reinforcement does not require
any more time and energy than negative reinforcement -- in either case, you
obviously can't "do" anything unless you are present to make an observation.
This is true for all of us. I am sure that *none* of us can be available at
all times. Nevertheless, it is important for you to begin this process and
use it any time you see that a fight may be about to break out. We called
Holly "the black tornado" before I adopted Duffy because she would attack
*any* other cat in my vicinity with real aggression and viciousness. I
spent a great deal of time an care with their introduction because I wanted
to accomplish a complete transition. Once they were together, I used the
type of positive reinforcement that Megan described. The first time Holly
started to attack, I panicked and began yelling "NO! NO" etc. That had no
effect and I had to physically restrain Holly. Then I realized that I had
gone completely contrary to positive reinforcement. After that, if I saw
any signs at all of nervousness or aggression, I would talk very calmly and
in a soothing voice, and I would use toys to distract attention -- for
example, the laser pointer or toss a small ball or wiggle one of those
little "fishing poles" with a toy attached to the end. This has worked
wonders!!! I seldom see any potential problems now, and if I do a few
soothing words will immediately cause Holly and/or Duffy to come to me for
some scritches. You really want both cats to associate "good" things with
the other cat, *not* to develop the thought that the other cat is somehow
"causing" all these punishments. Think of yourself...would you react better
to someone who is positive or someone who yells at you and harasses you if
you do not conform to their expectations?
MaryL
zuz...@webtv.net
> Your advice sounds good, but I don't see
> how I can implement it. It would require
> constant vigilance until he is fully
> retrained, and most of the time I don't
> see the beginning of any of the fights.
Nobody on the planet is in a position to supervise their cats 24/7. The
key is to be consistent when you do observe body language that indicates
something is about to happen, and when fights do occur, breaking them up
without yelling and other behaviors on your part that create stress and
fear. A fight is broken up just as easily with gentle words and
separation without yelling, throwing one cat into a room and slamming
the door. You could just as easily herd one cat into the house or
outside without any negative actions.
> Understand, it's not just innocuous
> hissing and growling. He catches her
> off-guard and tries to kill her.
Then find a way to keep them separate for awhile. This may mean
alternating keeping one inside and one outside or alternating having one
cat in a bedroom with the door closed. You can find a way to allow these
cats to be separate for a week or two so tempers diffuse and then you
can start over very slowly when you can supervise them using only
positive and gentle words and gestures. What you have been doing so far
has only served to create a great deal of animosity and made things
worse for *both* cats. The behaviors have become a pattern and it's up
to you to break it and help the cats to develop new, positive behaviors.
> Yesterday I did see him stalking her in
> the yard and warned him with my voice,
> and he backed off.
You can achieve the same effect using a gentle voice and distracting
him. "Warning" him means, to him, that something bad will occur when the
other cat is around and it does nothing to make him like the other cat.
Instead it only increases his association with the other cat and you
being mean to him.
> The only thing I've ever seen bring two
> cats who don't get along together has
> been a "common enemy" such as a new
> d-pet. I may try that one of these
> days....
It's not necessary. Using the methods I outlined will eventually result
in the cats at the minimum forming a truce, which is sometimes the best
you can expect. If you continue to create an environment where fear and
punishment rule the day, you won't have much success.
I've have worked with many people wih this issue and have dealt with it
with cats I have adopted, and it works. There is no requirement for 24
hour monitoring. The only thing that is required is to be vigilant and
consistent and do everything with kindness and gentleness. I would like
to think that you would be ecstatic to have, and not hesitate to use, an
option that doesn't involve meanness and punishment. Am I wrong?