A word, please...!

[La Donna Mobile]

I'm struggling (mental block) to find a word to describe the effect
where a singer alternates fairly quickly between two adjacent notes. Not
a trill, because it's slower than a trill, but it's definitely more an
effect than just the fact that consecutive notes happen to be adjacent
and alternating.

Thanks in anticipation

--
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/
http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/

[edo...@gmail.com]

Vibrato? Wobble?

[jme...@peoplepc.com]

Mordent?

[La Donna Mobile]

jme...@peoplepc.com wrote:
> Mordent?
>

I think that might be it. No wonder I was searching for the word,
because it's not familiar to me.

But I can't work out from Grove and Wikipedia what distinguishes it from
a trill - is it the rapidity, or something else?

[LT]

premie...@aol.com wrote:
> Vibrato? Wobble?

When the latter is difficult, or combined with a treble, it's a
'Trobble'.
LT

[Silverfin]

La Donna Mobile wrote:
> jme...@peoplepc.com wrote:
> > Mordent?
> >
>
>
> I think that might be it. No wonder I was searching for the word,
> because it's not familiar to me.
>
> But I can't work out from Grove and Wikipedia what distinguishes it from
> a trill - is it the rapidity, or something else?
>

IIRR a mordent never has more than 3 notes in it. It's very brief
decoration at the start of a note - say A.
Mordent: abA
Inverted mordent: agA
(with or without accidentals)

I don't know any specific term for what you're describing, but would
comment that there's no set speed for trills, or any reason why the
alternation can't be a bit faster or slower in different cases. (In
fact, woodwind trills can be quite slow indeed when it's some really
awkward high register fingering...)

Silverfin

[donpaolo]

Tremolo...

DonP.
"La Donna Mobile" <enidl...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:kJudnUji8oERTf3Y...@bt.com...

[Jon E. Szostak, Sr.]

Geraldine: You probably mean a 'turn'...such as on the word 'Engel' in the
aria 'O du mein holder Abendstern' from Tannhäuser. It's where the singer
can go back and forth between two notes...at a slower rate than a
trill...usually starting on the lower note and ending on the upper note.

I hope that's what you mean...otherwise my mental block also kicks in!

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

"La Donna Mobile" <enidl...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:kJudnUji8oERTf3Y...@bt.com...

[Ken Meltzer]

La Donna Mobile wrote:
> I'm struggling (mental block) to find a word to describe the effect
> where a singer alternates fairly quickly between two adjacent notes. Not
> a trill, because it's slower than a trill, but it's definitely more an
> effect than just the fact that consecutive notes happen to be adjacent
> and alternating.
>
> Thanks in anticipation

LDM-
Can you point to a recording that illustrates the technique?
That might be helpful.
Thanks!
Best,
Ken

[edo...@gmail.com]

When the latter is difficult, or combined with a treble, it's a
'Trobble'.
LT

=================================================================
I am glad that we have finally discovered a new musical clef. First
there was the treble clef and the bass clef. Now, we have the "Trobble"
clef!! Seems particularly fitting for Thanksgiving music!!

Best
Ed

[jme...@peoplepc.com]

LT wrote:
> premie...@aol.com wrote:
> > Vibrato? Wobble?
>
> When the latter is difficult, or combined with a treble, it's a
> 'Trobble'.
> LT

Hence the little known episode of STAR TREK, "The Trobble with Trebles".

[Stephen Jay-Taylor]

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Accacciatura

SJTrillo

[LT]

Had the tone-deaf, killjoy Klingons not cramped their style, - who
knows how well they'd have sung Opera??

LT

[LT]

Stephen Jay-Taylor wrote:
> http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Accacciatura
>
> SJTrillo

In the above link -
what a timely suggestion for Thanksgiving:
(A)cacciatura, -Whether turkey or chicken!

L Culinarily Conscientious T

[Stephen Jay-Taylor]

Actually, I mis-spelled acciaccatura originally in the search - since that's
what I thought LDM's phenomenon was - and without realising it moved the "i"
around, yet STILL the link worked, even though it's wrong. Weird...

SJT, more fond of Principessa than Cacciatore.

[LT]

I'll take either, - senza Mozzarella, and senza Parmeggiano!

LT,
-culinarily flexible....

[Ken Meltzer]

premie...@aol.com wrote:

> I am glad that we have finally discovered a new musical clef. First
> there was the treble clef and the bass clef. Now, we have the "Trobble"
> clef!! Seems particularly fitting for Thanksgiving music!!
>
> Best
> Ed

I thought Trobble was a character in "Madama Butterfly."
Best,
Ken

[edo...@gmail.com]

I thought Trobble was a character in "Madama Butterfly."
Best,
Ken

=====================================================================
He used to be, Ken. But now he's become Howdy Doody!!

Ed

[La Donna Mobile]

The specific example was in Don Pasquale, in the duet that follows from
Com'è gentil in the line 'tremo lontan da te' where the tenor elides the
da and te; the recording in question is from Cagliari, available on DVD,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0000AKO3Q?tag=madmusinofme-21. Conductor
Gerard Korsten, tenor Antonino Siragusa.

[Stephen Jay-Taylor]

As I suspected : that's an acciaccatura.

SJT

[REG]

Do you by any chance mean "shake"? In some of the writing it was used as an
alternative to 'trill', and in my own mind there sometimes seemed to me a
distinction between the more regular oscillation of the shake and the trill,
although I'm not so sure that was always the case with the people originally
using the word.

Best

"La Donna Mobile" <enidl...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:kJudnUji8oERTf3Y...@bt.com...

[La Donna Mobile]

Thank you all for help. I have learned a lot...and am now even more
confused ;-)

It's a nice effect in a tenor performance that is less than sterling,
but not altogether unpleasant...

[LJO]

> LT,
> -culinarily flexible....
>

We've heard the rumors.
ljo

The weary beagle scootches. The master watches and daydreams of pasta sauce.
ChengYe

[Silverfin]

No, she said just two adjacent notes. A turn includes both the note
above and the note below as well as the main note. (Unless terminology
differerent in US?)

Turn: bagA or abagA
Inverted turn: gabA or agabA

Someone else suggested 'tremolo'. I've only encountered this used to
mean effectively the same as a trill, but where the notes more than a
2nd apart. (Although I believe it may also be used to denote where the
same note is repeated very quickly for a period of time, as often done
on the mandolin. And it means something else again to electric
guitarists.)

eg. bgbgbgbgbgbgbgbgbgbgbgbg

An example, to see or listen to, would allow us to identify the
appropriate description for the effect.

Silverfin

[Jon E. Szostak, Sr.]

Yes...you're quite correct...I forgot about the bottom note. It's been a
while since I sang the bloody thing.

I think the 'tremolo' word may be the right one...e.g. when Don Quichotte &
Sancho Panza enter the forest just before encountering the bandits...Sancho
sings a phrase which ends on the words "Je tremble!"...where he performs
just such a tremolo effect. I don't think its a 'trill'...don't have the
score to check.

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

"Silverfin" <silve...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1164029086....@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[LT]

Best tonal 'shake' example occurring at the moment: Iago, at several
points in his Brindisi. Gobbi, one of the greatest in the role, did it
-not shakily- but chillingly!

LT