RMMG: Copyright and Trademark Laws(long )
Polfus
<<What court is gonna give you, an unemployed lawyer, free reign to view the
private email of one of its customers? You gonna explain to the
judge/magistrate what your reasons are and keep a straight face?>>
Your ignorance is showing. Of course, you ARE the Gibson shill. Must be too
young to remember when they made GOOD guitars....
My law partners and employees will be amazed to hear I'm unemployed.
Hey, what do YOU do for a living, little boy?
Steve>>
I saves lives...literally.
And you avoided the question once again, little lady.
Polfus
SEFSTRAT
Steve>>
I saves lives...literally.>>
You "saves" lives? Whose do you "saves" and how do you do it?
Steve
===================
SEFSTRAT
Polfus, read a little and learn how subpoenas work in an ongoing case. Then
learn about the procedure required to quash one and the reasons required
I;m not going to try to educate you, the ineducable, on this topic..
Good luck.
Steve
===================
Polfus
>From: sefs...@aol.comnospam (SEFSTRAT)
>Date: Fri, Nov 6, 1998 16:09 EST
>Message-id: <19981106160946...@ng19.aol.com>
Because you would not be able to do such a thing, Steve, without full 'cause,
and even then, you are going to have to explain it to a judge as to your
reasons, as well as go against the lawyers hired by AOL for those records,
which are private to its customers.
*You* are the one who needs luck, little lady.
Polfus
Polfus
>From: sefs...@aol.comnospam (SEFSTRAT)
><<Hey, what do YOU do for a living, little boy?
>
>Steve>>
>
>I saves lives...literally.>>
>
>You "saves" lives? Whose do you "saves" and how do you do it?
>
>Steve
Usually by chest compressions.
I will not satisfy you with any additional info, Steve...especially since you
insist on acting younger than your 14-yr old and try to grab onto any typos
people may make. Very, very childish, Steve.
I have not insulted your profession, so I hope you are a man enough to respect
mine.
Polfus
Carlginger
>I;m not going to try to educate you, the ineducable, on this topic..
>
>Good luck.
>
>Steve
Are those Jr. High Prom contracts hard to read?
~*Freebird*~
respect
>mine.
>
>Polfus
I wouldn't count on it. Sef's not even man enough to reach the high shelves
at the supermarket. Or dress himself. Or change his own diaper.
Rob
~*Freebird*~
SEFSTRAT wrote in message <19981106160946...@ng19.aol.com>...
><<And you avoided the question once again>>
>
>Polfus, read a little and learn how subpoenas work in an ongoing case.
Then
>learn about the procedure required to quash one and the reasons required
>
Subpeona me, asshole. I have the clip. "I am here." Send me a subpeona. I'll
defend myself in court and STILL win. I'll countersue, and win that too.
Your bolt neck PRS will be mine to chop into firewood. I'll use your
hairpiece as a rug in my basement.
Rob
Carlginger
>I wouldn't count on it. Sef's not even man enough to reach the high shelves
>at the supermarket. Or dress himself. Or change his own diaper.
>
>Rob
>
>
That's why he got married.
Carl
~*Freebird*~
Carlginger wrote in message <19981106182811...@ng124.aol.com>...
I'm still trying to figure out what was in it for his wife. Cheryl, was it?
Rob
~*Freebird*~
>critically ill.
>
>Polfus
Well as far as he's concerned you don't deserve respect unless you're
defending critical parking tickets. But then again who wants Sef's respect
anyway?
Keep up the good work Polfus, you're career path is an admirable one, much
like your posting style. :)
Rob
Polfus
>>I have not insulted your profession, so I hope you are a man enough to
>respect
>>mine.
>>
>>Polfus
>
>I wouldn't count on it. Sef's not even man enough to reach the high shelves
>at the supermarket. Or dress himself. Or change his own diaper.
>
>Rob
I received no respect from him regarding my profession of dealing with the
critically ill.
Polfus
Polfus
>From: "~*Freebird*~" <free...@ovation.net>
>Date: Fri, Nov 6, 1998 23:43 EST
>Message-id: <720ise$7f3$1...@newsmaster.pathcom.com>
>
>>I received no respect from him regarding my profession of dealing with the
>>critically ill.
>>
>>Polfus
>
>defending critical parking tickets. But then again who wants Sef's respect
>anyway?
>
>Keep up the good work Polfus, you're career path is an admirable one, much
>like your posting style. :)
>
>Rob
:)
Peace,
Polfus
SEFSTRAT
>you are going to have to explain it to a judge as to your
>reasons, as well as go against the lawyers hired by AOL for those records,
>which are private to its customers.
You apparently don't read the news. AOL freely gives that info, given a
subpoena. BIG story about 6 months to a year ago.
Your ignorance knows no bounds. You are actually telling an attorney with many
years of trial experience about subpoenas. You're a piece of work.
:-)
Steve
===================
SEFSTRAT
>
>Steve
>>
I see. EMT, or the like. Good use of your "top notch" education.
I think an EMT needs a high school diploma and training, hereabouts. Their job
is important and vital, I don;t diminish that...but not a lot of original
thought goes on during it.
BTW, we represent a local ambulance corps employees on a legal plan designed
for them, so yeah, I know a lot of those folks.
Steve
===================
Polfus
That's sweet.
It does not describe me, however, as I am not an EMT.
I hope you remember your insults towards EMTs the next time you or someone in
your family needs an ambulance.
Polfus
Polfus
>From: sefs...@aol.comnospam (SEFSTRAT)
>Message-id: <19981108135041...@ng132.aol.com>
Until you *obtain* your little subpoena, you remain a steam-blowing asshole.
Polfus
~*Freebird*~
>You're a piece of work.
>:-)
>
>Steve
And you're a piece of shit.
Rob
Carlginger
>Your ignorance knows no bounds. You are actually telling an attorney with
>many
>:-)
>
>Steve
10th rate hack contract lawyer
~*Freebird*~
>I hope you remember your insults towards EMTs the next time you or someone
in
>your family needs an ambulance.
>
>Polfus
>
If he acts like this in real life, I'm sure that day will come very soon.
Rob
~*Freebird*~
>Your motives are questionable at best.I can't beleive you would seriously
go
>that far,is this some kind of a joke?
>
It is to everyone BUT Sef.
Rob
Lutegirl
>subpoena. BIG story about 6 months to a year ago.
Guys remember AOL headquaters are in my neck of the woods here,I know many
people who work for AOL,on various levels,they are extremely careful in
protecting your privacy.
Especially now.
If they were to take a good look at these threads and threats by an AOL member
to subpoena/harrass other members and customers of AOL through usenet and
e-mail,those attempts could very well backfire.
There is enough information through e-mails and threads for AOL itself to quash
it.
Polfus
I agree, LuteGirl...AOL is not just gonna give him the info he thinks he is
entitled to.
As I said earlier, until he actually *gets* a subpoena, he is blowing smoke
along with cheap intimidation.
Peace,
Polfus
SEFSTRAT
Polfus>>>
Well, doofus, an ongoing lawsuit is required for that, absent exigent
circumstances.. Yeah, I know, you didn't know THAT, either.
Insofar as being a "steam-blowing asshole", I fear that the existence or
nonexistence of a subpoena will not affect the application of that term to you.
Steve
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
<<There is enough information through e-mails and threads for AOL itself to
quash
it.>>
More fine legal advice from the highly educated in that area.
And totally wrong, of course, just like every other legal opinion you've
uttered here.
Steve
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
I see. WHAT do YOU DO?
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
Rob
>>
Is that a threat?
Steve
====
Lutegirl
Carl provoked you and you took the bait,just like the class clown dangling your
love note over your head threateneing to read it to the rest of the class,if
you had blown the whole thing off and just ignored him,he would have gone away.
The two of you seem to need each other,otherwise there wouldn't be over 41,000
hits/pages,on Dejanews for Sefstrat + Carlginger.Why not take the afternoon ,or
a couple of days off and read this"book", that you and Carl wrote.1996-98 Bad
Love,by Sefstrat and Carlginger,uncut, unedited,first edition,thousands upon
thousands of pages...If I didn't know better I would have thought it was
written by a couple of frustrated 15 year old boys.
Why waste your fine legal education in here?
My privacy on AOL, as well as other customers will prevail.
ACCESS DENIED.
SEFSTRAT
Naivete is charming in a teenager; less so in adults.
Steve
Steve
====
Polfus
>
>Steve
>Steve
Shove your insults up your crusty little ass, Steve.
LuteGirl is *the* sweetest, and you *must* be a disrespectful gonad to have
gotten her fired up...I imagine the *insults* you so freely give has something
to do with it.
Think about it.
Polfus
Giri Iyengar
>
> <<My privacy on AOL, as well as other customers will prevail.>>
>
Being an aggressive, unmitigated arsehole is forgiveable
in a hormone-infested teenager, not so in an adult.
..Giri
--
e-mail: giyengar "at" ford "dot" com
Lutegirl
e-mail account information from Carlginger and other AOL customers,through
subpeonas,under the guise of a lawsuit just to get private information?
Lutegirl
>e-mail account information from Carlginger and other AOL customers,through
>subpeonas,under the guise of a lawsuit just to get private information?
>
>
spelling correctum: s u b p o e n a
subpoena: a weapon of litigious web stalkers
SEFSTRAT
>So are you still planning on using your position as a lawyer to get personal
>e-mail account information from Carlginger and other AOL customers,through
>subpeonas,under the guise of a lawsuit just to get private information?
If I decide to get it, it will be as part of an ongoing lawsuit for, among
other things, defamation, misuse of artistic materials wiothout permission
(including but not limited to copyrighted material) and prima facie tort. All
discovery tools would be utilized during the discovery process in the event of
such a litigation.....including finding out the exact extent of the
distribution/publication, which is one of the elements of two of those three
causes of action.
You haven't a clue. Give up.
Steve
====
GeoMac
>
> lutegirl, showing a continued stunning lack of knowledge, said:
(snip)
>
> You haven't a clue. Give up.
>
> Steve
> ====
Are you going to threaten to go beat her up too?
pH
GeoMac
> >
> > Naivete is charming in a teenager; less so in adults.
>
> Being an aggressive, unmitigated arsehole is forgiveable
> in a hormone-infested teenager, not so in an adult.
>
Consider Sef's recent behavior including (but not limited to):
1) The direct threats of violence against other NG readers
2) His sadistic glee when he wrote about bankrupting people
3) The threats against any and all in the NG to harass them with
"subpoenas" if they dared cross him and download material from Carlll.
4) The frequent lies and distortions he resorts to, that seem to imply
he has a "very flexible" view of reality. It seems either he posts
total BS and knows it, or he can justify to himself everything he does
(that is the scary possibility).
5) His numerous allusions and statements about "Sturgeon's Law" and his
opinion that 90% of the people here in RMMG are "crap".
When I take those facts together I reach the conclusion that Sef is far
worse than Carll (and followers). Carll makes disgusting jokes about
the holocaust. But it seems Sef is the sort of person who would
actually be involved in such a thing (not against his own people of
course, but other "crap-people" in his eyes).
Carll uses obscinities. Sef is one (IMO).
pH
Gil Ayan
> lutegirl, showing a continued stunning lack of knowledge, said:
This is uncalled for, isn't it? C'mon, Lutegirl has never personally attacked you,
but go ahead... just don't whine when it comes back at you.
>> So are you still planning on using your position as a lawyer to get personal
>> e-mail account information from Carlginger and other AOL customers,through
>> subpeonas,under the guise of a lawsuit just to get private information?
> If I decide to get it
It doesn't depend entirely on you -- and you know it. What's the point of trying
to, by misleading people, give the impression Carl's future is in your hands?
It seems to me that the only thing that you hold in your hands, lately, has been
a "sub-penis." Wait a second, my spell checker is not working, so let me withdraw
that before you object-- or worse yet, decide to sue me for "defamation of
anatomy." ://
Back to facts, you can decide if you really want to *pursue it,* but whether you
get it or not is another story.
> Tell it like it is, , it will be as part of an ongoing lawsuit for, among
> other things, defamation, misuse of artistic materials wiothout permission
> (including but not limited to copyrighted material) and prima facie tort.
I thank you for amusing me on this Monday. By the way, and this is directed to
everybody, I think Steve is basically trying to say that Carl has already broken
his balls enough, and that he is going to sue Carl for "wronging him." From where
I sit, I think everyone has broken everyone else's balls enough. I would love to
think we can all negotiate a truce. Can we?
And, if anyone wants to see anyone else, fine. Just leave the rest of us BS free.
> such a litigation.....including finding out the exact extent of the
> distribution/publication, which is one of the elements of two of those
> three causes of action.
Now, let me reprint, for your convenience, the three charges stated above, so
we can have a detailed look at this situation:
> defamation, misuse of artistic materials wiothout permission
> (including but not limited to copyrighted material) and prima facie tort.
- - -
Defamation: if your case sticks, then I would probably volunteer to provide
legal counsel for all blue collar workers in a class action suit... and they
might have a better case against you. Defamation implies an attack on the
"good reputation" of a person. I rest my case, your reputation has slipped
down the charts because of your own doings, so perhaphs you should try and
rebuild it before you accuse someone else of damaging it for you.
- - -
Misuse of "artistic materials:" you have already heard about the "Doctor Laura"
(Schlessinger) case. The court ruled the naked pictures will remain available
on the Internet, although Dr Laura NEVER gave consent to put them up there and
they are 20 years old.
You, Steve, not only gave permission to have your "artistic material" posted
on the Internet, you alledgedly also wanted it out there ever so badly... to the
point you asked that your submissions be delayed in order to generate anticipation,
and then you asked a few people to post some plugs for you.
That all worked until the "holes beat the plugs" and some people began to see right
through you, using that very material to suggest that, based upon the expectation
generated by your history of postings on this forum, you were actually somewhat
of a moderately gifted "artist."
So what is the misuse? Is there a chance you are upset because your plan back
fired? I remind everybody that it was you who accused people of tampering with
your recording to make it sound worse. I received testimony from several people
suggesting they have intact copies of your performance. So, is it the tampering
or the performance itself you are apprehensive about?
[Taking my barrister wig off, I wouldn't worry about a thing. This group should
be about music, that meaning a form of expression. Someone doesn't like your
preformance? Too bad, I am sure there is at least someone else who does like
it, so it's, at worst, a wash. Barrister wig on.]
- - -
Prima Facie Tort:
Prima Facie: (Latin) A legal presumption which means "on the face of it"
or "at first sight". Law-makers will often use this device to establish that
if a certain set of facts are proven, then another fact is established prima
facie. For example, proof of mailing a letter is prima facie proof that it was
received by the person to whom it was addressed and will accepted as such by
a court unless proven otherwise. Other situations may require a prima facie
case before proceeding to another step in the judicial process so that you would
have to at least prove then that at first glance, there appears to be a case.
Tort: Derived from the Latin word tortus, which meant wrong. In French, "tort"
means a wrong. Tort refers to that body of the law which will allow an
injured person to obtain compensation from the person who caused the injury.
Every person is expected to conduct themselves without injuring others. When
they do so, either intentionally or by negligence, they can be required by a
court to pay money to the injured party ("damages") so that, ultimately, they
will suffer the pain cause by their action. Tort also serves as a deterrent by
sending a message to the community as to what is unacceptable conduct.
This then has to imply that Steve feels hurt by Carl, in direct contradiction of
what we so often read: "Go ahead, Carl, I coudln't care less... I don't mind, I'm
so high above you you don't even bother me." That was actually paraphrasing, not
a direct quote. Deja News can provide thousands of quotes to support my argument.
So, which one is it, Steve?
>You haven't a clue. Give up.
Maybe Lutegirl is not 100% familiar with the law, but others are. Maybe you are
not all you think you are from a musical standpoint. Rather than telling you
you give up, a motion which I am sure would have massive support, I suggest you
take up yoga. I've mentioned this in the past, and with nothing but the best of
intentions, I say to you that I believe it could help you out.
Once again, guess what? Yes, I own the Copyright to this posting, but I allow you
all to add to it, quote it, thrash it, etc.
Love always,
Gil
PS: Of course, can I be your witness? Roundtrip for 2 from LA to NY and a stay
at anything ***** will do just fine.
©1998 Gil Ayan
All Rights Reserved
--
______ __ __ ______ __ __
/ __ / / /_/ / / __ / / \/ / Gil Ayan, Los Angeles, CA
/ /_/ / \__ / / /_/ / / / / / Email: ai...@lafn.org
/_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_/\__/ http://home.earthlink.net/~ayan
NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS: Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5,
Subchapter II, p.227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent
to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount
of $500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
Carlginger
>>> So are you still planning on using your position as a lawyer to get
>personal
>>> e-mail account information from Carlginger and other AOL customers,through
>>> subpeonas,under the guise of a lawsuit just to get private information?
Nice post Gil.
When Carl C. posted my clips, I heard eveything from "you're awesome" to "you
suck"
'Ol Sef can't take it....and what's even funnier is that all these weeks that
I've been refering to "Bad Love"....I was refering to Clapton's
version....taking Sef for a "ride" if you will.
What a jerk, I can't waste anymore time with this blowhard, as you know I have
a high-gain head to research.
Later, Carl
Steve Sklar
Question: If this suit actually proceeds, can we all file some kinda
"friends of the court" brief requesting that both litigants receive a
"gag order," or some similar "shut the fuck up" under penalty of law?
That would be cool!
Steve Sklar/Big Sky email: skla...@tc.umn.edu
Guitarist/Producer/Throat Singer fax: (612) 521-0865
Big Sky Home Page: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~skla0003/Big_Sky.html
Khoomei Page: http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/g057/sklar001/khoomei.html
Images of Tuva: http://www.cbc.umn.edu/~sklar/tpics.html
"It's all Folk Music...you ever hear a horse play music?"...Doc Watson
Polfus
and that was just superb what you posted.
I'm gonna go read it again.
Sefstrat...."PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!"...what a sadistic inferiority complex
laiden case *that* is!!!!
And congrats on your review featured in Guitar Shop, Dec. '98!!!!
Check it out folks..."The Smooth And Slim" pedal by Ayan Enterprises!!!
Peace,
Polfus
~*Freebird*~
SEFSTRAT wrote in message <19981109090645...@ng154.aol.com>...
Nope. I'm not catchin' a plane just to kick your ass when I'm sure there's a
line up of your neighbors willing to do it first.
Rob
~*Freebird*~
And a great guitarist too! (trying to get back on topic) hehe
Rob
~*Freebird*~
>Carll uses obscinities. Sef is one (IMO).
>
Well said. And let it be noted that Carl's obscenities pertain to Sef, and
are therefore right on the money.
Rob
~*Freebird*~
Rob
Gil Ayan wrote in message <727phl$lgf$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
~*Freebird*~
>Are you going to threaten to go beat her up too?
>
>pH
It would be an empty threat, I doubt he COULD.
Rob
~*Freebird*~
>Being an aggressive, unmitigated arsehole is forgiveable
>in a hormone-infested teenager
Thanks for givin me an official excuse :)
Rob
Daniel R. Haney
[Bad SEF! Bad Carl! (rubs noses in public doodoo)]
Daagnabbit, Woman!
Git outer thet hawg waller and
quit tryin' ta wrassle them hawgs!
-drh
--
Dan Stanley
Kamchak Tuchuk wrote in message <36478e02...@nntp.InfoAve.net>...
In a way, aren't we ALL Ellie Mae? Aren't we?
SDan
Greg Peterson
SEFSTRAT <sefs...@aol.comnospam> wrote in article
<19981109155024...@ng-fc1.aol.com>...
> lutegirl, showing a continued stunning lack of knowledge, said:
>
> >So are you still planning on using your position as a lawyer to get
personal
> >e-mail account information from Carlginger and other AOL
customers,through
> >subpeonas,under the guise of a lawsuit just to get private information?
>
> If I decide to get it, it will be as part of an ongoing lawsuit for,
among
> other things, defamation, misuse of artistic materials wiothout
permission
> (including but not limited to copyrighted material) and prima facie tort.
All
> discovery tools would be utilized during the discovery process in the
event of
> such a litigation.....including finding out the exact extent of the
> distribution/publication, which is one of the elements of two of those
three
> causes of action.
>
> You haven't a clue. Give up.
So, basically you're saying the answer to Lutegirl's question is "yes."
brett & annette
Giri Iyengar wrote in message
<364748EB...@av7005.pd5.ford.com>...
>SEFSTRAT wrote:
>>
>> <<My privacy on AOL, as well as other customers will
prevail.>>
>>
>> Naivete is charming in a teenager; less so in
adults.
>
>Being an aggressive, unmitigated arsehole is
forgiveable
>in a hormone-infested teenager, not so in an adult.
>
Kamchak Tuchuk
Haney" <salv...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Lutegirl wrote:
>
>[Bad SEF! Bad Carl! (rubs noses in public doodoo)]
>
>Daagnabbit, Woman!
>
>Git outer thet hawg waller and
>quit tryin' ta wrassle them hawgs!
>
>-drh
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[...]
[] The two of you seem to need each other,otherwise there wouldn't be over 41,000
[] a couple of days off and read this"book", that you and Carl wrote.1996-98 Bad
[] Love,by Sefstrat and Carlginger,uncut, unedited,first edition,thousands upon
[] thousands of pages...If I didn't know better I would have thought it was
[] written by a couple of frustrated 15 year old boys.
Oh, oh!! Can I have a autographed copy?
----
"It is better to debate a question without answering it than to answer a question without debating it."
-- Mark Twain
..............................................................
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
chri...@microsoft.com -- Seattle, WA.
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
Kamchak Tuchuk
<stan...@tiac.net> wrote:
>
>Kamchak Tuchuk wrote in message <36478e02...@nntp.InfoAve.net>...
>>On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 19:02:55 -0500, "Daniel R.
>>Haney" <salv...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Lutegirl wrote:
>>>
>>>[Bad SEF! Bad Carl! (rubs noses in public doodoo)]
>>>
>>>Daagnabbit, Woman!
>>>
>>>Git outer thet hawg waller and
>>>quit tryin' ta wrassle them hawgs!
>>>
>>Lutegirl is actually Ellie Mae???
>
>In a way, aren't we ALL Ellie Mae? Aren't we?
>
>SDan
Ah yes. I see. You are right of course. I just
hadn't thought about it. Now, excuse me while I go
play w/ my monkey.....
Mic Cullen
written:
[snips]
>You "saves" lives? Whose do you "saves" and how do you do it?
Typos is a particularly stupid area for you to go to, Sef;;;;
cheers,
Stevie DejaToobjerkFAQNaziMi©
SEFSTRAT
pH>>
I offered to LET Carllll take his best shot at me. I also said I'd never
initiate a fight with him, but would respond in kind if he so chose.
And you know it.
Phil, you're really full of crap, you know?
Steve
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
<<Consider Sef's recent behavior including (but not limited to):
<<1) The direct threats of violence against other NG readers>>
Liar. I offered to let Carlll take his best shot. I said I'd respond in kind.
I also said I'd never initiate same. Show me where I said otherwise, you
dishonest pitiful excuse for a human. I pity your students. What a moral
bankrupt you are. You must take CarlLessons.
<<2) His sadistic glee when he wrote about bankrupting people>>
Only about ONE person: Carlll. Would I find HIS bankruptcy, should it occur, a
source of amusement? Most definitely. He's an antisemitic, woman-hating
obscene-mouthed slime who is already unwelcome in another music forum online.
It'd be appropriate.
<<3) The threats against any and all in the NG to harass them with
"subpoenas" if they dared cross him and download material from Carlll.>>
I did you a favor, but you're too stupid to know it. I gave you the key to
staying UNinvolved.
Lesson: defamation and unauthorized use causes of action depend in part upon
proof of publication and proof of distribution. Accordingly, proof of such
would be best obtained via subpoena; first, to obtain records of Carlll's
activity, and second, to obtain confirmation of receipt from those exposed to
such publication and/or receiving such distribution . If I were to pursue such
a cause of action for a client, either for damages or injunctive relief, I
would be guilty of malpractice if I did NOT follow that route of discovery,
among other avenues, because such would help to establish both an element of
each cause of action and damages associated with those causes of action.
The mere fact that an attorney may be proceeding pro se doesn't change those
standards.
Accordingly: stay out of it. Then you'll never be bothered by it, except as a
NG thread, which you CAN ignore.
You're obviously ignorant about this to a high degree. But that doesn't stop
you from having an opinion, does it?
<<<4) The frequent lies and distortions he resorts to, that seem to imply
he has a "very flexible" view of reality. It seems either he posts
total BS and knows it, or he can justify to himself everything he does
(that is the scary possibility).>>
Actually, I just happen to think you're full of crap, for several reasons.
<<5) His numerous allusions and statements about "Sturgeon's Law" and his
opinion that 90% of the people here in RMMG are "crap".
>>
90% of EVERYTHING is crap, sir. That was Sturgeon's law. It was stated HALF
humorously by him, and quoted by me the same way.
With or without Sturgeon, however, I said I believe YOU to be full of crap. No
Sturgeon's Law required there.
Now, you have attempted to parlay that into an insult of 90% of the people in
the newsgroup.
But I only said that YOU were full of crap, Phil. Maybe the NG contains mostly
folks from the other 10%. I know, it never occurred to you, inasmuch as your
own comments make it clear that you place yourself squarely in Sturgeon's 90%.
Gee, how surprising....
<<<<When I take those facts together I reach the conclusion that Sef is far
worse than Carll (and followers). Carll makes disgusting jokes about
the holocaust. But it seems Sef is the sort of person who would
actually be involved in such a thing (not against his own people of
course, but other "crap-people" in his eyes).>>>>
I see. My contempt for a particular individual now makes me capable of
genocide.
You are a piece of dirt. A waste of skin.
Fortunately, YOUR opinion is irrelevant to me (any, I suspect, any other
critically thinking person, given the factual inaccuracies and logical gulfs in
this one post of yours, alone).
Just why should I give a damn what YOU think? What difference could it
possibly make in the world to me, or anyone else, here? Think what you like.
Don't go away mad. Just go away.
Ever since I took that shot at your little---er, the fine educational
institution at which you work, you've come gunning. I must have hit a HELL of
a nerve. Hmmm.
Your arguments are unoriginal and largely uninformed, particularly with regard
to legal matters, in which you have no knowledge, no education and no
experience, yet express a pretty sophomoric opinion. You bore me. I guest in
Trial Practice classes from time to time, and it's clear that 25-year-old first
year Law School students have better critical thinking skills than yours.
Those who can, do. Those who can't.......
I think you know how that famous saying ends, right? It was apparently written
for you.
>Carll uses obscinities. Sef is one (IMO).>>
Good. Glad you think so. Then you would see no reason to respond to this or
my other posts in the future, inasmuch as you have deemed me to be an
"obscinity" (sic). Perfect.
Steve
====
Mic Cullen
have written:
[snips]
>When I take those facts together I reach the conclusion that Sef is far
>worse than Carll (and followers). Carll makes disgusting jokes about
>the holocaust. But it seems Sef is the sort of person who would
>actually be involved in such a thing (not against his own people of
>course, but other "crap-people" in his eyes).
Agree entirely.
>Carll uses obscinities. Sef is one (IMO).
Yeah :-)
cheers,
Stevie DejaToobjerkFAQNaziMiŠ
SEFSTRAT
This is uncalled for, isn't it? C'mon, Lutegirl has never personally attacked
you,>>
You're kidding, right? Her "look before you leap" thread? Get real.
She wants to argue law with a lawyer. YOU decide how bright that is.
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
(snip)
In other words, there would be issues of fact with respect to all three causes
of action, requiring resolution by a trier of fact. Prima facie cases on all
three causes of action DO exist, and are unassailable under Rule 11.
Gee. That's the test for Summary Judgment. In other words, Carlll would have
to go though discovery, to trial, to try to prove a case along the lines of
what you argued, should such a case be brought.
And that was the point, wasn't it?
Gil, your view is typical of folks with some legal education and no practical
experience. You think you know how it'll come out. But you don't understand
that it doesn't matter what YOU think; you have acknowledged material issues of
fact on all three fronts that could NOT result in the dismissal of a case. And
YOU will not be deciding the facts ultimately, anyway. Many a time folks are
surprised at what happens when a factfinder gets into a matter.
And win or lose...do you think the ultimate verdict is the issue in the first
place?
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
>Steve
>====
>
Nope. I'm not catchin' a plane just to kick your ass when I'm sure there's a
line up of your neighbors willing to do it first.
Rob>>
Son, you'd not be allowed in this neighborhood.
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
Typos is a particularly stupid area for you to go to, Sef;;;;
cheers,
Stevie DejaToobjerkFAQNaziMiŠ
>>
Oh, I was sincerely interested in the answer.
And in the answer to "which Gibsons are not worth the money they change",
too.....
Steve
====
Mark Garvin
>Tort: ... In French, "tort" means a wrong.
So everyone go away or we shall tort you for a second time.
MG
Gil Ayan
sefs...@aol.comnospam says:
> And win or lose...do you think the ultimate verdict is the issue in the
> first place?
As a sworn in officer of the court, I would assume your objective is
to see to it that justice is served, and since that is directly
reflected by the verdit of the case (ideally speaking, that is), the answer
would be yes, the ultimate verdict is the issue. It is plain to see you re
apparently trying to shove your personal agenda though -- threatening to
abuse the legal system with childish whining, bullying people and making
threats (or promises if youd rather) of taking legal action because you get
in a bickering contest with someone who pokes you in the eyes -- without any
regard to who you treat with little or no respect. Anything you write here
is an example of the character you accuse other people here of trying to
defame... and you believe any court will overlook your acxtions here? You
might be hurt by these wars you fight, I certainly wont... and I have nothing
to gain either. So, if anything, its your loss and therefore your choice as
to how to go on with your life. I am merely trying to get some entertainment
out of this newsgroup, since it seems getting down to some music and guitars
is impossible at present.
As I said brefore, round trip for two from LA to NY and we re doing
business, Steven, please? I will be a good witness, I promise... and I like
NY in the winter time! :) Tell you what, unregulated gambling is illegal in
California, and everything I say is by default California venue... otherwise
Id be willing to bet you would be having your shoes for lunch if you were to
go to court on the three counts you brought up! I suppose well have have to
wait and see whether you go forth, fight and succeed, or, as you said of
others here yourself, whether you fold. If the latter, I hope you will
change your tune and be like you once used to. If you get your way, I know
this place will be just too much to bear for me!
Still lovingly,
Gil
© 1998 Gil Ayan
All Rights Reserved
boogie...@my-dejanews.com
sefs...@aol.comnospam (SEFSTRAT) wrote:
> <<2) His sadistic glee when he wrote about bankrupting people>>
>
> Only about ONE person: Carlll. Would I find HIS bankruptcy, should it occur,
a
> source of amusement? Most definitely. He's an antisemitic, woman-hating
> obscene-mouthed slime who is already unwelcome in another music forum online.
> It'd be appropriate.
Carl Fiadino + Carl Christenson = TWO people. Elementary arithmatic is
obviously not a requirement in law schools. Or maybe it's just memory that
isn't necessary.
> You bore me. I guest in
> Trial Practice classes from time to time, and it's clear that 25-year-old
first
> year Law School students have better critical thinking skills than yours.
>
> Those who can, do. Those who can't.......
.....play in cover bands.
> I think you know how that famous saying ends, right?
Yes.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Lutegirl
>place?
>
No, I think you are trying to abuse the legal system to get our private e-mail
and account information from America Online.
The" lawsuit"with Carlginger is just part of scheme to get it.
If you were sincerely offended by Carl,you would not constantly throw yourself
into the flames with him,you would have steered clear,and at least
given the impression that you were trying to get away from him.
I'm not a lawyer,but If I need one,I can go $buy$ one.I have $money$.
If I didn't have the $money$, I wouldn't have the $luxury$ of $spending$ $time$
in here,nor would I have all the $guitars$.
ehemin...@my-dejanews.com
sefs...@aol.comnospam (SEFSTRAT) wrote:
> <<Are you going to threaten to go beat her up too?
>
> pH>>
>
> I offered to LET Carllll take his best shot at me. I also said I'd never
> initiate a fight with him, but would respond in kind if he so chose.
>
sounds like a scene from Grumpy Old Men.
mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
>
>
> If I didn't have the $money$, I wouldn't have the $luxury$ of $spending$ $time$
> in here,nor would I have all the $guitars$.
>
You have $money$ ?
Gosh, wanna do on a date?
Mickey Yahoo-Mooshoo
Pittsburgh, PA
Dan Stanley
SEFSTRAT wrote in message <19981110003957...@ng19.aol.com>...
><<You "saves" lives? Whose do you "saves" and how do you do it?
>
>Typos is a particularly stupid area for you to go to, Sef;;;;
>cheers,
>Stevie DejaToobjerkFAQNaziMiŠ
Sbould;nt that be, "Typo's ARE a particularly studid areas..."?
>And in the answer to "which Gibsons are not worth the money they change",
>too.....
Me too. I can't sleep at night knowing that Polfus feels that there are
Gibson's out there that aren't "good enough". Why, the other day he said
that of eight LP DC Stds. he recently played, only three were worthy of his
exacting standards. I'd love to know what was wrong with the other five.
Dan
RJClayton
You misspelled "farts."
Bob (you got the grumpy part right, though) Clayton, S.R.
Quality music since 1963.
GeoMac
>
> >>
> >Lutegirl is actually Ellie Mae???
>
> In a way, aren't we ALL Ellie Mae? Aren't we?
Well there is one person that I view more as Granny on speed.
And a few Jethro's around too.
pH
GeoMac
>
> Son, you'd not be allowed in this neighborhood.
>
Are you saying you would beat him up?
Is that the way things go in your neighborhood?
pH
GeoMac
>
> In article <19981109235356...@ng21.aol.com>,
> sefs...@aol.comnospam (SEFSTRAT) wrote:
>
> > <<2) His sadistic glee when he wrote about bankrupting people>>
> >
> > Only about ONE person:
(snip)
> Carl Fiadino + Carl Christenson = TWO people. Elementary arithmatic is
> obviously not a requirement in law schools. Or maybe it's just memory that
> isn't necessary.
He also talked (with sadistic glee) about already doing it to someone
else. That's ANOTHER one.
> > Those who can, do. Those who can't.......
>
> .....play in cover bands.
>
LOL
pH
GeoMac
>
> Phil the cloistered one writes:
>
> <<Consider Sef's recent behavior including (but not limited to):
>
> <<1) The direct threats of violence against other NG readers>>
>
> Liar.
*LOL* Your hormone infested rantings are there for all to see. I was
wrong in that most of your threats of violence are more indirect. (Stuff
like "I'm going to tell the JDL on you").
> I pity your students. What a moral
> bankrupt you are. You must take CarlLessons.
>
Just curious Other than my being disgusted at YOU. Do you have any
basis for saying anything like that? In your world does liking/agreeing
with SEF equal morality?
> <<2) His sadistic glee when he wrote about bankrupting people>>
>
> Only about ONE person:
Liar
Carl F., Carl. C., and the person you said you had already done it to
make at least 3 that come to mind.
> <<3) The threats against any and all in the NG to harass them with
> "subpoenas" if they dared cross him and download material from Carlll.>>
>
> I did you a favor, but you're too stupid to know it.
Oh "cross me and I'll get you" is not a threat but doing someone a favor
in your world? That's twisted.
>
> But I only said that YOU were full of crap, Phil. Maybe the NG contains mostly
> folks from the other 10%.
Ah, watch SEF try to dance away from his comments.
>I know, it never occurred to you, inasmuch as your
> own comments make it clear that you place yourself squarely in >Sturgeon's 90%.
>
> Gee, how surprising....
That's stupid even for you. No I don't have a self-esteem problem.
>
> <<<<When I take those facts together I reach the conclusion that Sef is far
> worse than Carll (and followers). Carll makes disgusting jokes about
> the holocaust. But it seems Sef is the sort of person who would
> actually be involved in such a thing (not against his own people of
> course, but other "crap-people" in his eyes).>>>>
>
> I see. My contempt for a particular individual now makes me capable of
> genocide.
No, its the combination of the lies, gross distortions, the threats of
violence, the sadistic glee and the lack of respect (if not outright
disdain) you show for anybody who isn't ... you.
That all paints a pretty sad/disgusting picture.
>
> You are a piece of dirt. A waste of skin.
Comments like that prove my point.
Does that sound like a comment from a person capable of genocide or like
a comment made by a decent human being?
>
> Ever since I took that shot at your little---er, the fine educational
> institution at which you work, you've come gunning. I must have hit a HELL of
> a nerve. Hmmm.
No. I have no problem there.at all. I let it go on because you do so
much damage to yourself when you try those attacks.
>
> You bore me.
That's why you ignore me, right? 8-)
I guest in
> Trial Practice classes from time to time, and it's clear that 25-year-old first
> year Law School students have better critical thinking skills than yours.
*LOL* Sef saying somebody does not have critical thinking skills is
sillier than him picking on someone for spelling or typos.
>
> Those who can, do. Those who can't.......
>
> I think you know how that famous saying ends, right?
Make fools of themselves on usenet?
So we add teaching to the list of jobs worthy of scorn, according to
Sef? My guess is that list will eventually expand to everything but
laywers BTW
>
> >Carll uses obscinities. Sef is one (IMO).>>
>
> Good. Glad you think so.
That is rather strange.
>Then you would see no reason to respond to this or
> my other posts in the future,
If you are going to continue to stink up the NG, I feel free to comment
on it.
Well you have stated many times that you were going to ignore me. You
could do a much better job than you have been doing.
pH
Dan Stanley
GeoMac wrote in message <364894...@mail.rancho.cc.ca.us>...
>Dan Stanley wrote:
>>
>> >>
>> >Lutegirl is actually Ellie Mae???
>>
>> In a way, aren't we ALL Ellie Mae? Aren't we?
>
>Well there is one person that I view more as Granny on speed.
But, in a way, aren't we ALL Grannie on speed?
>And a few Jethro's around too.
And, in a way, aren't we ALL Jethro?
SDans
>pH
~*Freebird*~
SEFSTRAT wrote in message <19981110002817...@ng19.aol.com>...
><<>Is that a threat?
>>Steve
>>====
>>
>
>Nope. I'm not catchin' a plane just to kick your ass when I'm sure there's
a
>line up of your neighbors willing to do it first.
>
>Rob>>
>
>
>
>====
>
Oh no, I feel like such an outcast. Poor me. They'd let you into my
neighborhood, but only to stab you repeatedly and make off with your wallet.
You wouldn't last a day.
Rob
Giri Iyengar
>
> In article <19981110072435...@ng-cr1.aol.com>, lute...@aol.com (Lutegirl) writes:
> >
> >
> > If I didn't have the $money$, I wouldn't have the $luxury$ of $spending$ $time$
> > in here,nor would I have all the $guitars$.
> >
>
> You have $money$ ?
>
> Gosh, wanna do on a date?
Careful. Your Freudian slip is showing.
..Giri
--
e-mail: giyengar "at" ford "dot" com
Carlginger
>Oh no, I feel like such an outcast. Poor me. They'd let you into my
>neighborhood, but only to stab you repeatedly and make off with your wallet.
>You wouldn't last a day.
>
>Rob
>
>
A dead Sef?
What a nice thought.
Carl
Daniel R. Haney
> Lutegirl wrotes:
> >
> > If I didn't have the $money$, I wouldn't have the $luxury$ of $spending$ $time$
> > in here,nor would I have all the $guitars$.
>
> You have $money$ ?
>
> Gosh, wanna do on a date?
Depends on whether you're a lawyer she needs or a guitar she wants.
-drh
--
pietrzak
Gil Ayan wrote:
<snip good stuff>
"As a sworn in officer of the court, I would assume your objective is
to see to it that justice is served, and since that is directly
reflected by the verdit of the case (ideally speaking, that is), the answer
would be yes, the ultimate verdict is the issue. "
Actually, most attorneys would contend their job, in the role of bringing
about justice, is to best represent their client. In the case of the
defense this is obviously the person accused. The prosecution is the
representative of the state (us!), usually reflected in their
attempt/opinion to "convict" the accused whom is believed guilty. The
battle, for the jury/judge, is the platform where "justice/truth" is then
determined ...
Dale
~*Freebird*~
>I hold an
>education certification in NY.
God help us all.
Rob
Donald Put
> Those who can, do.
Those who care, teach.
Hope this helps clear up your obvious mental confusion.
Cheers,
--
Don
Idyllwild Brewing Company (home-brewed beer and tube guitar amps)
Gil Ayan
>Gil said:
>>If you get your way, I know
>>this place will be just too much to bear for me!
>
>What do you think "my way" is, Gil? I honestly think you haven't a clue.
You're right, poor choice of words on my part. I should have said: "if you
continue to proceed as it seems to me you have been doing lately." I may
not have a clue, and if judging by my perception the way you and I are is
some sort of indication, I think you're right, we're worlds apart and
therefore I couldn't possibly have a clue of what it's like to walk in your
shoes and what's on your mind.
I can only guess what your intentions are, looking at the amount of
animosity that has existed between you and your "litigants." I don't know
that I could blame you at all for feeling angry/bitter/hurt, or whatever may
apply, since I haven't been targeted in the way you have -- by the same
token, I don't believe I have been as aggressive either, but that's
irrelevant at this point. My point is that, although I believe you feel
justified in doing what you have been doing, if it had been me in your
place, I would have gone ahead and done what I *had* to do, quietly, without
leaving any room for anyone to believe all I wanted to do was to show off by
threatening to "cast some legal black magic" on other people. After all, if
I did something I would be doing it for myself and not for anyone else to
clap their hands to. But, as I said before, that's just me.
Later,
~*Freebird*~
>No, his lack of class'd make him stand out so much that someone'd probably
call
>the cops.
>Steve
>====
>
Guess that makes me a redneck. Cool! Yep, a "glorious lack of
sophistication."
Rob
GeoMac
> (Sef wrote)
> >I hold an
> >education certification in NY.
>
> God help us all.
Naw....just those in NY.
Maybe I understand those statistics about the Rochester schools a bit
better now though....
pH
GeoMac
>
> >> Son, you'd not be allowed in this neighborhood.
> >>
> >
> >Are you saying you would beat him up?
>
> No, his lack of class'd make him stand out so much...
*LOL* considering what a classy guy SEF is....
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] In article <19981110072435...@ng-cr1.aol.com>, lute...@aol.com (Lutegirl) writes:
[] > If I didn't have the $money$, I wouldn't have the $luxury$ of $spending$ $time$
[] > in here,nor would I have all the $guitars$.
[]
[] You have $money$ ?
[]
[] Gosh, wanna do on a date?
Hey, BACK OFF buddy!! Many of us are standin' in line for Lutegirl
based strictly on her literary and intellectual prowess and haven't
even seen her purse yet!
Hmmm, she's got money too? Damn!
----
"It is better to debate a question without answering it than to answer a question without debating it."
-- Mark Twain
..............................................................
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
chri...@microsoft.com -- Seattle, WA.
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
Carlginger
>> Son, you'd not be allowed in this neighborhood.
>
>
>Is it "restricted"?
>
>
Trailer park.
Carl
SEFSTRAT
>As a sworn in officer of the court, I would assume your objective is
>to see to it that justice is served,
Then we agree.
>that is directly
>reflected by the verdit of the case (ideally speaking, that is), the answer
>would be yes, the ultimate verdict is the issue.
We also agree.
But the AMOUNT of damages is NOT the issue. The sucess of the cause(s) of
action, in this case, would be.
Steve
Steve
====
Carlginger
>But the AMOUNT of damages is NOT the issue. The sucess of the cause(s) of
>action, in this case, would be.
>
>Steve
What if the Jetzel is damaged?
SEFSTRAT
>Id be willing to bet you would be having your shoes for lunch if you were to
>go to court on the three counts you brought up!
Gil, I;'ve litigated over 1000 arbitrations and over 200 trials, to verdict. I
have a pretty good idea of the strength of the causes of action, and IMHO, your
scholarly view of it is interesting, but incorrect. It sounds like a law
school exercise, not comething grounded in what really happens.
>I suppose well have have to
>wait and see whether you go forth, fight and succeed, or, as you said of
>others here yourself, whether you fold.
I've already decided what I will do, given certain circumstances. Which way
things go now is entirely up to the behavior of someone else. My decisions are
already made.
>If you get your way, I know
>this place will be just too much to bear for me!
What do you think "my way" is, Gil? I honestly think you haven't a clue.
Steve
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
occur,
a
> source of amusement? Most definitely. He's an antisemitic, woman-hating
> obscene-mouthed slime who is already unwelcome in another music forum online.
> It'd be appropriate.
Carl Fiadino + Carl Christenson = TWO people.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Huh>
"Carllll" refers to Carl F. Always did. RMMG parlance, you know.
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
<<So we add teaching to the list of jobs worthy of scorn, according to
Sef?>>>
No. Just YOU.
My mom and stepdad were both teachers for over 30 years each. I hold an
education certification in NY.
No, Phil, it's not the genre I disrespect. It's YOU. You're a stereotype. Go
back to your tower.
Steve
====
evil twin®
<stan...@tiac.net> wrote:
>GeoMac wrote:
>>Dan Stanley wrote:
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >Lutegirl is actually Ellie Mae???
>>>
>>> In a way, aren't we ALL Ellie Mae? Aren't we?
Wait a minute... ESB is Ellie Mae. I thought everybody knew
that..??
>>Well there is one person that I view more as Granny on speed.
>
>
>But, in a way, aren't we ALL Grannie on speed?
No... I'm Granny on acid.
>>And a few Jethro's around too.
>
>
>And, in a way, aren't we ALL Jethro?
There used to be One True Jethro. I don't know where all
these imposters came from...
SEFSTRAT
>No, I think you are trying to abuse the legal system to get our private
>e-mail
>and account information
Fortunately, what you think isn;t controlling. Or probably even relevant.
>The" lawsuit"with Carlginger is just part of scheme to get it.
Don't flatter yourself. I'm not interested in you in the slightest.
>If you were sincerely offended by Carl,you would not constantly throw
>yourself
>into the flames with him,you would have steered clear,and at least
>given the impression that you were trying to get away from him.
>
>
>If you were sincerely offended by Carl,you would not constantly throw
>yourself
>into the flames with him,you would have steered clear,and at least
>given the impression that you were trying to get away from him.
>
>
I don't cut and run, sorry.
>I'm not a lawyer>>
Patently obvious.
<<,but If I need one,I can go $buy$ one.I have $money$.>>
How nice for you. But I think you'd be amazed at the fact that most of us are
NOT for sale. A small minority are...good luck.
Maybe you could spend some of the money on educating yourself in those areas
where you deign to give advice to others in a public forum. Copyright law, for
instance.
Steve
====
evil twin®
(Not A Speck Of Cereal) wrote:
>mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote:
>[] lute...@aol.com (Lutegirl) writes:
>[] >
>[] > If I didn't have the $money$, I wouldn't have the $luxury$ of $spending$ $time$
>[] > in here,nor would I have all the $guitars$.
>[]
>[] You have $money$ ?
>[]
>[] Gosh, wanna do on a date?
>
>Hey, BACK OFF buddy!! Many of us are standin' in line for Lutegirl
>based strictly on her literary and intellectual prowess and haven't
>even seen her purse yet!
>
>Hmmm, she's got money too? Damn!
Is that all you people care about? Money? I'm shocked that
you would be attracted to such superficial qualities and
disgusted by your greed. If you read her post above, you'll
see that she has a lot more to offer than just money...
Guitars, for example...
SEFSTRAT
>I can't sleep at night knowing that Polfus feels that there are
>Gibson's out there that aren't "good enough". Why, the other day he said
>that of eight LP DC Stds. he recently played, only three were worthy of his
>exacting standards. I'd love to know what was wrong with the other five.
>
>Dan
>
Maybe if you keep asking him......
:-)
Naw, guess not.
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
>>
>
>> Son, you'd not be allowed in this neighborhood.
>>
>
>Are you saying you would beat him up?
No, his lack of class'd make him stand out so much that someone'd probably call
the cops.
Steve
====
SEFSTRAT
>I would have gone ahead and done what I *had* to do, quietly, without
>leaving any room for anyone to believe all I wanted to do was to show off by
>threatening to "cast some legal black magic" on other people.
Everyone gets a warning, Gil.
First, it's fair.
Also, it makes their position less defensible if they continue thereafter.
Steve
====
Polfus
>From: sefs...@aol.comnospam (SEFSTRAT)
>Date: Tue, Nov 10, 1998 23:36 EST
>Message-id: <19981110233654...@ng39.aol.com>
You're a sad little man...
Polfus
evil twin®
>From: sefs...@aol.comnospam (SEFSTRAT)
>>
>>Everyone gets a warning, Gil.
>>
>>First, it's fair.
>>
>>Also, it makes their position less defensible if they continue thereafter.
>>
>>
>>Steve
>
>You're a sad little man...
>
>Polfus
I'd have thought you'd be applauding his civility by now...