exotic scale chart
tekman
I'm looking for an exotic scale chart. there was on floating around awhile
back that had a buttload of scales tabbed out (not just blues, major, minor
and pentatonic scales...). Some were really off the wall like Hindu scales,
Japanese scales..etc. Does anybody have, or know where I can get my grubby
paws on this at? It was posted on the net, but I can't find it to save my
life.
Thanks in advance.
tekman
Charlie Escher
Here's the original post :
> Subject: more exotic scales and modes
> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:57:02 -0500
> From: Andy Perades
> Organization: AthEnet Data Exchange
> Newsgroups: alt.guitar,alt.guitar.bass,alt.guitar.amps,alt.guitar.tab,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,rec.music.classical.guitar,rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz,rec.music.compose
>
> Here is another (more complete) listing of scales and modes, including
> synthetic and pentatonic scales. All of the scales are compared to the
> major scale (formula: 1, 1, 1/2, 1, 1, 1, 1/2) showing which intervals are
> altered. Thanks to all of the people who emailed suggestions and thanks for
> the last post.
>
> Andy Paredes
>
> WWW.Athenet.net/~Talamasc
>
> Major Scale Modes:
>
> 1) Major Scale (Ionian): no alternation
> 2) Dorian: flat 3, flat 7
> 3) Phrygian (Kurd, Arabic): flat 2, flat 3, flat 6, flat 7
> 4) Lydian: sharp 4
> 5) Mixolydian: flat 7
> 6) Aeolian (Natural Minor, Ancient Minor, Pure Minor): flat 3, flat 6, flat
> 7
> 7) Locrian: flat 2, flat 3, flat 5, flat 6, flat 7
>
>
> Melodic Minor Scale Modes
>
> 1) Melodic Minor (Jazz Minor): flat 3
> 2) Javanese: flat 2, flat 3, flat 7
> 3) Lydian Augmented: sharp 4, sharp 5, flat 7
> 4) Overtone (Lydian Dominant): sharp 4, flat 7
> 5) Hindu: flat 6, flat 7
> 6) Locrian natural 2: flat 3, flat 5, flat 6, flat 7
> 7) Super Locrian (Altered, Ravel): flat 2, flat 3, 4, flat 5, flat 6, flat
> 7
>
>
> Harmonic Minor Scale Modes:
>
> 1) Harmonic Minor Scale (Mohammedan): flat 3, flat 6
> 2) Locrian Natural 6: flat 2, flat 3, flat 5, flat 7
> 3) Harmonic Major: sharp 5
> 4) Romanian: flat 3, sharp 4, flat 7
> 5) Phrygian Dominant (Major Phrygian, Balkan, Jewish, Spanish Gypsy, Ahavoh
> Rabboh):flat 2, flat 6, flat 7
> 6) Lydian sharp 2: sharp 2, sharp 4
> 7) Ultra Locrian: flat 2, flat 3, 4, flat 5, flat 6, double flat 7
>
>
> Double Harmonic Minor Scale Modes
>
> 1) Double Harmonic Minor (Byzantine, Gypsy, Charhargah, East Indian Raga):
> flat 2, flat 6
> 2) sharp 2, sharp 4, sharp 6
> 3) flat 2, flat 3, 4, flat 6, double flat 7
> 4) Hungarian Minor (Algerian): flat 3, sharp 4, flat 6
> 5) Oriental: flat 2, flat 5, flat 7
> 6) sharp 2, sharp 5
> 7) flat 2, double flat 3, flat 5, flat 6, double flat 7
>
> Neapolitan Major Modes
>
> 1) Neapolitan Major: flat 2, flat 3
> 2) sharp 4, sharp 5, sharp 6
> 3) sharp 4, sharp 5, flat 7
> 4) Lydian Minor: sharp 4, flat 6, flat 7
> 5) Major Locrian (Arabian): flat 5, flat 6, flat 7
> 6) flat 3, flat 4, flat 5, flat 6, flat 7
> 7) flat 2, double flat 3, flat 4, flat 5, flat 6, flat 7
>
>
> Neapolitan Minor Modes
>
> 1) Neapolitan Minor: 2, 3, 6
> 2) sharp 4, sharp 6
> 3) Mixolydian Augmented: sharp 5, flat 7
> 4) Hungarian Gypsy: flat 3, sharp 4, flat 6, flat 7
> 5) flat 2, flat 5, flat 6, flat 7
> 6) sharp 2
> 7) flat 2, double flat 3, flat 4, flat 5, flat 6, double flat 7
>
>
> Hungarian Major Modes
>
> 1) Hungarian Major:sharp 2, sharp 4, flat 7
> 2) flat 2, flat 3, flat 4, flat 5, double flat 6, double flat 7
> 3) flat 3, flat 5,flat 6
> 4) flat 2, flat 3, flat 4, flat 5, flat 7
> 5) flat 3, sharp 5
> 6) flat 2, flat 3, sharp 4, flat 7
> 7) sharp 3, sharp 4, sharp 5
>
> Indian Ragas
> Todi: flat 2, flat 3, sharp 4, flat 6
> Marva: flat 2, sharp 4
>
>
> miscellaneous
> Persian: flat 2, flat 5, flat 6
> Enigmatic: flat 2, sharp 4, sharp 5, sharp 6
> Spanish Eight Tone: flat 3, (3), flat 5, flat 6, flat 7
>
> Synthetic Scales
> Synthetic scales are scales that follow particular orders in the steps
> between the note values, rather than traditional tonal construction. The
> following scales are listed by their formulas rather than interval
> differences to the major scale.
>
> Chromatic: (all ½ step distances): ½, ½, ½, ½, ½, ½, ½, ½, ½, ½, ½, ½
> Whole Tone (all whole step distances): 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
> Diminished: 1, ½, 1, ½, 1, ½, 1, ½
> Inverted Diminished: ½, 1, ½, 1, ½, 1, ½, 1
> Augmented Scale: 1½, ½, 1½, ½, 1½, ½
>
>
> Pentatonic Scales
>
> Because of the variations possible in pentatonic scales and different
> intervals being excluded, all the intervals in each scale are listed rather
> than just the altered intervals compared to the major scale.
>
> Pentatonic Major Modes
>
> 1) Major Scale Pentatonic (Mongolian): 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8
> 2) Egyptian: 1, 2, 4, 5, flat 7, 8
> 3) 1, flat 3, 4, flat 6, flat 7, 8
> 4) Ritusen: 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8
> 5) Pentatonic minor: 1, flat 3, 4, 5, flat 7, 8
>
>
> Exotic Pentatonic Scales
>
> Japanese: 1, flat 2, 4, 5, flat 6, 8
> Chinese: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8
> 1, 3, sharp 4, 5, 7, 8
> Iwato: 1, flat 2, 4, 5, flat 7, 8
> Scriabin: 1, flat 2, 3, 5, 6, 8
> Hirajoshi: 1, 2, flat 3, 5, flat 6, 8
> Kumoi: 1, 2, flat 3, 5, 6, 8
> Pelog (Balinese): 1, flat 2, flat 3, 5, flat 6, 8
> Indian Pentatonic: 1, 3, 4, 5, flat 7, 8
>
>
> Hexatonic scales (6 note scales):
> Prometheus: 1, 2, 3, sharp 4, 6, flat 7, 8
> Prometheus Neapolitan: 1, flat 2, 3, sharp 4, 5, flat 7, 8
> Blues Scale: 1, flat 3, 4, sharp 4, 5, flat 7, 8
>
Hope this is what you were looking for,
--C.E.
Simply Steve
it's pretty easy to figure out. The "theory" behind it is not particular to
Indian music, all you need to do is take the 7 notes of the major scale and
alter each note for each scale.
SS
tekman
for each scale. It was a really great little piece. Hopefully I can find it
before to long. My purpose for getting it is for a friend who has no music
theory education whatsoever, but he wants to learn something more than the
basic blues scales and major and minor crap (I probably would keep a copy
for myself too)...
Thanks,
tekman
Simply Steve
> > 5) Hindu: flat 6, flat 7
There are 72 Melas (basic scales) in Karnatak (S. Indian) music, there are I think 16 basic raga categorizations in Hindustani (N. Indian) music. Calling one "Hindu" is misinforming, to say the least.
> > Indian Ragas
> > Todi: flat 2, flat 3, sharp 4, flat 6
> > Marva: flat 2, sharp 4
A raga is a melodic fomula, NOT a scale, somewhat less than a "song" but much more than a "scale", "mode", or "motif". On top of this, degrees of microtonal variation on potentially all pitches used in a
particular raga must be considered and can vary considerably between regions and gharanas (music schools/families). How the individual notes are approached and resolved with respect to rhythmic cadences are
also very important and often differenciate one rag from another that use the same (or similar) pitches. Again, this is misinformation. In other words it you play these examples you are *NOT* playing rag
Todi or rag Marva. I don't mean to be a stickler for detail here, but it is very important to not call things what they are not with respect to Indian music, as much misunderstanding inevitably results.
SS
Charlie Escher
> Charlie Escher wrote:
>
> > > 5) Hindu: flat 6, flat 7
>
> There are 72 Melas (basic scales) in Karnatak (S. Indian) music, there are I think 16 basic raga categorizations in Hindustani (N. Indian) music. Calling one "Hindu" is misinforming, to say the least.
>
> > > Indian Ragas
> > > Todi: flat 2, flat 3, sharp 4, flat 6
> > > Marva: flat 2, sharp 4
>
> A raga is a melodic fomula, NOT a scale, somewhat less than a "song" but much more than a "scale", "mode", or "motif". On top of this, degrees of microtonal variation on potentially all pitches used in a
> particular raga must be considered and can vary considerably between regions and gharanas (music schools/families). How the individual notes are approached and resolved with respect to rhythmic cadences are
> also very important and often differenciate one rag from another that use the same (or similar) pitches. Again, this is misinformation. In other words it you play these examples you are *NOT* playing rag
> Todi or rag Marva. I don't mean to be a stickler for detail here, but it is very important to not call things what they are not with respect to Indian music, as much misunderstanding inevitably results.
>
> SS
I think that the guy who posted the chart originally (not me, I just forwarded it in case it was the one the other guy was looking for) came up with some general-case names for some of those scales. I don't
necessarily agree with his naming of some of those scales, but I'll let you work that out with the original poster ;^).
--C.E.
Simply Steve
SS
Charlie Escher wrote:
> Simply Steve wrote:
>
> > Charlie Escher wrote:
> >
> > > > 5) Hindu: flat 6, flat 7
> >
> > There are 72 Melas (basic scales) in Karnatak (S. Indian) music, there are I think 16 basic raga categorizations in Hindustani (N. Indian) music. Calling one "Hindu" is misinforming, to say the least.
> >
> > > > Indian Ragas
> > > > Todi: flat 2, flat 3, sharp 4, flat 6
> > > > Marva: flat 2, sharp 4
> >
Mark Garvin
>>someone who was NOT named Charlie Escher originally wrote:
>>
>> > 5) Hindu: flat 6, flat 7
In <3773DB02...@teleport.com> Simply Steve <niel...@teleport.com> writes:
>There are 72 Melas (basic scales) in Karnatak (S. Indian) music,
>there are I think 16 basic raga categorizations in Hindustani
>(N. Indian) music. Calling one "Hindu" is misinforming, to say the
>least.
Jazz players use a scale that they refer to as a 'Hindu' scale.
A common usage thing that you have to understand and accept in
some circles.
If you refer to '16 categories of Hindustani ragas', then I think
that misconceptions are understandable. Assuming that you are
referring to the basic 'thaats' that serve as root forms for
many ragas:
First, there are 10, not 16.
Second, 'thaats' are indeed scale-like or mode-like patterns.
>> > Indian Ragas
>> > Todi: flat 2, flat 3, sharp 4, flat 6
>> > Marva: flat 2, sharp 4
>A raga is a melodic fomula, NOT a scale, somewhat less than a "song"
>but much more than a "scale", "mode", or "motif". On top of this,
>...[snip]
>Again, this is misinformation. In other words it you play these
>examples you are *NOT* playing rag >Todi or rag Marva.
Actually, two of the thaats have those same names (Todi and Marwa),
so substitute 'thaats' for 'ragas' and there should have been no
real problem.
Some ragas are based on note patterns which differ from the 10
common thaats, so generalizations do not hold there, either.
(Ex: Rag Lalit, probably my favorite, which has a complex
sequence that includes both natural and sharped 4ths)
Most of the 10 common thaats are similar to western modes (minus
locrian, of course). Add Todi, Marwa, Pooravi and Bhairava = 10.
MG
Simply Steve
> Jazz players use a scale that they refer to as a 'Hindu' scale.
> A common usage thing that you have to understand and accept in
> some circles.
Ok. I accept that. :) I'd never heard of that before, but then I don't have a lot of
working experience in jazz.
> If you refer to '16 categories of Hindustani ragas', then I think
> that misconceptions are understandable. Assuming that you are
> referring to the basic 'thaats' that serve as root forms for
> many ragas:
>
> First, there are 10, not 16.
Right. There are 10 thaats. My mistake. The majority of my Indian music training has
been Karnatak, not Hindustani.
> Second, 'thaats' are indeed scale-like or mode-like patterns.
Yep. But since in Indian music scales/modes/thaats/melas are not usually played,
when you say scale or mode to an Indian musician or ask them about playing thaats or
melas they go "Huh?". They are theoretical categorizations that the scholars have
some interest in, and in fact I think the melas and thaats were sort of "invented"
in the lst two or three centuries by Indian scholars in an attempt to help Western
musicologists understand more about their music. It's also my understanding that the
thaats and melas are subject to wide variations of interpretation as to which raga
fits into which thaat/mela, and these "scales" are never really played or practiced
as such. What Indian music students usually practice are closer to actual ragas.
There are practices called sargams that aren't really quite full-blown ragas, but
definitely more than running up and down a scale or a mode.
> >> > Indian Ragas
> >> > Todi: flat 2, flat 3, sharp 4, flat 6
> >> > Marva: flat 2, sharp 4
>
> >A raga is a melodic fomula, NOT a scale, somewhat less than a "song"
> >but much more than a "scale", "mode", or "motif". On top of this,
> >...[snip]
> >Again, this is misinformation. In other words it you play these
> >examples you are *NOT* playing rag >Todi or rag Marva.
>
> Actually, two of the thaats have those same names (Todi and Marwa),
> so substitute 'thaats' for 'ragas' and there should have been no
> real problem.
Right. But they were called ragas, which is the mistake I was pointing out.
> Some ragas are based on note patterns which differ from the 10
> common thaats, so generalizations do not hold there, either.
> (Ex: Rag Lalit, probably my favorite, which has a complex
> sequence that includes both natural and sharped 4ths)
>
> Most of the 10 common thaats are similar to western modes (minus
> locrian, of course). Add Todi, Marwa, Pooravi and Bhairava = 10.
>
> MG
Thanks for the corrections and info, Mark. Like I said, I've been trained mostly in
South Indian music. My teacher was a Karnatak singer, and I picked up what little I
know about North Indian music on the fly, so to speak, that is except for tabla - I
had a real tabla teacher, thank goodness, but sitar, sarod and sarangi I had to sort
of learn on my own, so I'm a sort of half-breed and my knowledge of N. Indian music
is somewhat limited and the music I learned to play on the N. Indian instruments is
actually mostly S. Indian.
My basic concern is that we Westerners do not make faulty assumptions about Indian
music based upon common misinformation, that's all. I don't mean to be coming off
like an expert about it. I am certainly no expert and don't mean to seem snobbish
either. As you know, there is a world of difference between Western music and Indian
music, I just don't like the idea that calling a scale Indian or Hindu could mislead
readers into believing they now know something "valid" about Indian music. I don't
think I'm wording this very well at all, sorry. Hope you understand what I mean to
say.
Feel free to correct me as needed :) I'm not afraid to be wrong. It's one the ways
for me to learn.
SS
Fred Becker
I have got to lay off that LSD...
Regards; Fred Becker
"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill..."
>>There are 72 Melas (basic scales) in Karnatak (S. Indian) music,
>>there are I think 16 basic raga categorizations in Hindustani
>>(N. Indian) music. Calling one "Hindu" is misinforming, to say the
>>least.
>