Endings
Pt
Either a 9th chord or an 11th chord....or???
They wait for a downbeat and END.
How do you end songs that don't have rehearsed endings?
Pt
Gerry
<no...@noplace.com> wrote:
Walk off the stage while appearing to hail a cocktail waitress...
Honestly, if it's people I never met I give them the high sign and then
do something predictable. If they've been around, they know where it's
going.
But you can hold up three fingers while going into the last 2 bars so
they they know we're gonna repeat it three times. You can do one of
those guitar-neck neck-waving things for a stop-short ending: If it
works fine, if some are caught unawares it becomes a "string-fanning"
ending like you mention. If it almost works, you can do one of those
stock Count Basie endings where you do a little lick and then bring the
band back in for the fan.
Or something else.
There's gotta be another 20 of these, right?
--
Invest wisely: Over the past 75 years, stocks have averaged annual gains of 2.3
percent under GOP administrations, compared with 9.5 under Democratic ones.
-- Jerry Heaster
JP
Ma7 #11 is very common in Jazz.
Dom 9th on blues also.
Dom11...I don't hear that one used much...
(or 7sus4)
It is not standard practivve in "jazz" to rehearse an ending as such. There
are methods or devices that you learn over time that are common to use. It
basically means listening very carefully to what is suggested...the player
with the head may instigate something...or the drummer may set things up.
Listening is the key.
OF course you should be aware of common things like, repeating the
turnaround. Perhaps repeating the first ii V up a tone etc..as in the
classic Tangerine ending.
Other ending such as the Red Garland method of ending "There will never be
another you" are devices taht can be applied.
Or, when the melody permits, particualrly on a "Rall" ending often found on
ballads...the use of a ma7 chord up a half step that then resolves down a
half step.
A strong player or a experienced player will leave little ambiguity to
endings. IF you listen to jazz and are familiar with a lot of the body of
material of jazz, you will put yourself in the best position to
spontaneously create good endings with you fellow players.
JP
Jurupari
>
I lead the band into traffic where we are all run over by a truck.
I remember hearing Joe Pass solo and he commented that his manager was bitching
that he didn't work enough on good endings. I think Joe went along with that,
but wasn't doing a lot about it.
I have a few devices that I like to use, but they still kick my ass about half
the time. Probably from the listener's point of reference a good intro and a
good ending is more impressive than a good performance.
Clif
Lumpy
> Ma7 #11 is very common in Jazz.
Charlie's Angels chord.
Lumpy
--
In Your Ears for 40 Years
http://www.lumpymusic.com
George Prager
> >How do you end songs that don't have rehearsed endings?
We use all the stock tricks: the "Hollywood" ending, Basie ending, triple
tags etc...I just motion to the band or lean away from the mic and tell
them. On original tunes - and some others, too - I have written out arranged
endings for the horns. As someone else has pointed out, experienced players
almost always know what to do. The occasional train wreck just adds to the
creative tension. Btw, I haven't rehearsed anything in years, though I used
to rehearse a lot in my younger "rock" years. Sorry if this sounds like
blasphemy but I consider rehearsing a waste of time.
G.P.
Steve
"Gerry" <222...@spam.really.sucks> wrote in message
...> There's gotta be another 20 of these, right?
>
Nah, you pretty well nailed it.
Another common option is the obligitory trainwreck.
Seen plenty of 'em.
Nope, not pretty: "...Move along now please, nothing to see here..."
-SteveYetter-
Don Judy
"George Prager" <gtrvox...@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:JRkXc.22441$_H5.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...
"I'm working on a new cool well defined ending", but like I'll start playing
a bluesy ending and keep extending it by varying it for a half hour or so.
I'm thinking of working up an istrumental that is all endings; that is,
it'll be an intro at first and then just continue until it's an ending. No
preconceived tune or chords at all. Come to think, I think it's already
worked up, I just need to remember to do it out some night.
dj
Marc Sabatella
I don't know about 20, but I did once try to catalog the common endings.
This was for the CD-ROM project I was working on but never finished (you
can see it as it stands on my web site). One of the big things I never
finished were the examples - hundreds or even thousands of places in the
text where I knew I needed a notated and'or recorded example, but just
put the word "[EXAMPLE]" to be filled in later, hoping there would be
enough context in the text to remind me what I planned to put there.
Here's what I have for endings. I have gone ahead and annotated the
examples a little:
...
many arrangements come with their own endings, in which case you need
only read what is written:
[EXAMPLE] (here I had in mind somethng like a big band chart)
In some compositions, you can simply play the tune as you would
normally, and cut off short on the last note:
[EXAMPLE]
Or, you can stop and hold the last note:
[EXAMPLE]
Often, this ending is preceded by a ritard:
[EXAMPLE]
On ballads especially, an unaccompanied solo called a cadenza may be
inserted between the second to last and last notes:
[EXAMPLE]
An ending may also be prolonged by using the bII chord to harmonize the
last note of the melody, before resolving to the tonic:
[EXAMPLE] (this approach also works with IV, bVII, probably other
chords)
Sometimes, the short and long note approaches are combined to create a
"stutter" ending. The last note is played short, and then a long note is
added a few beats later. The long note is often the seventh or ninth of
the chord:
[EXAMPLE] (is this clear enough?)
A tritone may be used as well:
[EXAMPLE]
Instead of adding a single long note, one common cliche is to use the
following phrase, which I always associate with Miles Davis'
performances of "Four":
[EXAMPLE] ("...and there ain't no more")
Or, one or more players may play a short fill over the last note:
[EXAMPLE]
A cliched ending phrase that is often used on medium tempo swing tunes
is the Duke Ellington or "Take The 'A' Train" ending:
[EXAMPLE]
Often, the last four bars will be repeated two or three times before
applying any of the other techniques. This particular device is most
commonly used on tunes that end with a ii-V-I progression, in which case
a VI chord is often inserted as a turnaround to the repeat, and a iii
chord is substituted for the I chord:
[EXAMPLE]
The iii chord is often played as an altered dominant chord, as the
melody note is normally the tonic, which is the raised fifth of the III
chord:
[EXAMPLE]
A tritone substitution may be performed on this chord, yielding bVII:
[EXAMPLE]
A variation is to repeat only the ii-V portion of the progression:
[EXAMPLE]
Often, the melody over the V chord is prolonged to two or four measures
on the final phrase:
[EXAMPLE] (I think by this I meant a tune like "Hallelujah, I Just Love
Her So" where a common ending is sing the last phrase in half time after
cycling it a couple of times)
A common way to extend the ending indefinitely is to go into a
iii-VI-ii-V vamp, allowing one or more players to solo or trade fours
for a while. Actually, the vamp is normally seen as starting on the ii
chord, yielding ii-V-iii-VI as the form for trading fours:
[EXAMPLE]
At some point, the vamp is terminated using any of the ending techniques
discussed previously. This is often preceded by frantic waving of hands
to make sure everyone ends together:
[EXAMPLE]
The last ending I will demonstrate is not as well known as the ones
discussed thus far, but it is highly effective when used sparingly. In
this ending, the final I chord is replaced with a half-diminished #iv
chord, which then leads into a series of chords that descend
chromatically or cycle around the circle of fifths:
[EXAMPLE] (#iv7b5-iv-iii-#iio-ii-V-I, for example. I've since realized
this isn't as uncommon as I initially thought.)
WizzOfOzz
In my 'younger years' I played in some sort of metal band. We rehearsed
the endings 'till death, and finally we got to end every song in a very
professional 'metallish' way (If some dutch native speaker knows another
way to express 'strak' in english, feel free to correct me).
One of the girls in the audiance responded; 'I like your songs but they
all stop so suddenly.' ...
Anyway, that's not really an answer to the OP, I suppose ...
regards,
--
Oscar
perl -we 'my $domainname = "ln.lla4sx"; print "wizzofozz@" .
reverse($domainname) . "\n"'
dunlop212
all seemed to end with a cool guitar riff. Rock a Beatin Boogie was
probably the best one.
Gerry
<ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
> > There's gotta be another 20 of these, right?
>
> I don't know about 20, but I did once try to catalog the common endings.
As I continue to muse I figure there are at least 20 "stock"
approaches, but cataloging them seems a bit taxing. Not too taxing for
you, it seems... :-)
> many arrangements come with their own endings, in which case you need
> only read what is written:
> [EXAMPLE] (here I had in mind somethng like a big band chart)
>
> In some compositions, you can simply play the tune as you would
> normally, and cut off short on the last note:
>
> [EXAMPLE]
>
> Or, you can stop and hold the last note:
This reminds me of another easy one, when you hit the last chord you
hit it a half step high, and then after some later bring it down and
clatter. Oops, you've got that too:
> An ending may also be prolonged by using the bII chord to harmonize the
> last note of the melody, before resolving to the tonic:
--
Keith Freeman
> way to express 'strak' in english, feel free to correct me
I would say "tight".
Btw, asking a native speaker to translate *out of* his native language is
asking for trouble ;-}
-Keith
Music samples, tips, Portable Changes at
http://home.wanadoo.nl/keith.freeman/
E-mail: keith DOT freeman AT wanadoo DOT nl
Steve
"Don Judy" <dnhj...@comcast.net> wrote in message:
...> I'm thinking of working up an istrumental that is all endings; that is,
> it'll be an intro at first and then just continue until it's an ending. No
> preconceived tune or chords at all. Come to think, I think it's already
> worked up, I just need to remember to do it out some night.
>
> dj
I think I've seen David Bromberg do endings he can't seem to get out of for
many extra bars.
-SteveYetter-
Mark Smart
>
> We use all the stock tricks: the "Hollywood" ending, Basie ending, triple
> tags etc...
I should know this, but: what's a "Hollywood" ending? Is it related to
a "Hollywood" ending in a movie where everything turns out alright?
Like maybe ending a minor tune on a nice happy major chord so people
won't get too bummed out?
I have been working out endings lately that I can do with the Jazz
Looping Pedalboard...
<http://www.marksmart.net/gearhack/jazzpedalboard/jazzpedalboard.html>
... and it would be cool to do something other than Basie endings,
"Take the A Train" endings and fadeouts with the volume pedal.
Last week I broke down and bought a Gibson Echoplex, greatly expanding
the possibilites of the looping setup. It allows you to store multiple
loops in memory on the fly, so I can play in the 2nd & third
repetitions of a tag first before putting in the main loop of the
tune. Then at the end I hit "Next Loop" to make it go to the tags
after the out-head.
Mark Smart
www.marksmart.net
Max Leggett
wrote:
>"George Prager" <gtrvox...@canoemail.com> wrote in message news:<JRkXc.22441$_H5.6...@news20.bellglobal.com>...
>> > >How do you end songs that don't have rehearsed endings?
>>
>> We use all the stock tricks: the "Hollywood" ending, Basie ending, triple
>> tags etc...
>
>I should know this, but: what's a "Hollywood" ending? Is it related to
>a "Hollywood" ending in a movie where everything turns out alright?
>Like maybe ending a minor tune on a nice happy major chord so people
>won't get too bummed out?
To me it means landing on the tonic for a bar, then a bar of II and
ending on III.
Paul Sanwald
it strikes me as lazy and predictable. bill evans and bud powell and
all those guys always played well thought out original endings to
tunes.
--paul
Marc Sabatella
I suspect this is going to mean different things to different people
(like the "Sears & Roebuck" versus "Montgomery Ward" bridges). I've
heard it applied to what I described as half-timing the final cadence.
Can't believe I left out the "Basie" ending, BTW, although in retrospect
it's a variation on the same idea as the "Four" ending (stop short, then
add final figure).
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
George Prager
> Like maybe ending a minor tune on a nice happy major chord
this is called (help me out here, experts!!) "tierce de Piccardi" or
something to that effect, in classical music. I use it on "Autumn Leaves"
but obviously can be used on any minor key ballad. Sounds a bit cliche
I always thought the Hollywood ending was this stock ending (key of C, say,
starting on the 5th string). But I guess I'm wrong. It's one of the overused
endings but everybody knows it
- - - - -
- - - - -
- - - - -
7 - 9 -10
7- 8- 9 - 10
- - - - -
Gerry
<pcsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
I totally concur. Initially PT was asking specifically about
unrehearsed settings. But with any group that plays together regularly
endings and beginnings are critical to make a tune it's best.
I had a stage mom with plenty of showbiz cliche's, but one heard plenty
was, "Nail the intro and ending--the rest will take care of itself."
Craig Rasband
> > Like maybe ending a minor tune on a nice happy major chord
>
> this is called (help me out here, experts!!) "tierce de Piccardi" or
> something to that effect, in classical music.
Everybody I know has always just called this a "Picardy Third". (I
never did know how it was spelled.) But none of these guys were
classical musicians.
Craig Rasband
"Swing is one of jazz's great gifts to humanity.
Don't screw it up." - John Goldsby
Greger Hoel
<wizz...@LookAtSignature.nl> wrote:
>Pt wrote:
>> I often see live bands ending songs with a long strummed chord.
>> Either a 9th chord or an 11th chord....or???
>> They wait for a downbeat and END.
>>
>> How do you end songs that don't have rehearsed endings?
>
>In my 'younger years' I played in some sort of metal band. We rehearsed
>the endings 'till death, and finally we got to end every song in a very
>professional 'metallish' way (If some dutch native speaker knows another
>way to express 'strak' in english, feel free to correct me).
>
>One of the girls in the audiance responded; 'I like your songs but they
>all stop so suddenly.' ...
two friends of mine were alloted ten minutes playing time at a youth
program rock concert. They went for fitting thirty songs into their
window, but time was up by the time they'd gotten to no. 27, IIRC.
They weren't big on long, elaborate endings either.
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Sabatella
> something to that effect, in classical music. I use it on "Autumn
Leaves"
> but obviously can be used on any minor key ballad. Sounds a bit cliche
The Picardy third is indeed common in classical music, much less so in
jazz. Instead, though, what we often find in minor key tunes is ending
on the IV chord, played as a substitute for the minor sixth tonic chord.
Don Judy
"Greger Hoel" <gre...@spammersgetbent.net> wrote in message
news:cog4j09k35k37ar04...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:58:05 +0200, WizzOfOzz
> <wizz...@LookAtSignature.nl> wrote:
>
> >Pt wrote:
> >> I often see live bands ending songs with a long strummed chord.
> >> Either a 9th chord or an 11th chord....or???
> >> They wait for a downbeat and END.
> >>
> >> How do you end songs that don't have rehearsed endings?
> >
> >In my 'younger years' I played in some sort of metal band. We rehearsed
> >the endings 'till death, and finally we got to end every song in a very
> >professional 'metallish' way (If some dutch native speaker knows another
> >way to express 'strak' in english, feel free to correct me).
> >
> >One of the girls in the audiance responded; 'I like your songs but they
> >all stop so suddenly.' ...
>
> two friends of mine were alloted ten minutes playing time at a youth
> program rock concert. They went for fitting thirty songs into their
> window, but time was up by the time they'd gotten to no. 27, IIRC.
> They weren't big on long, elaborate endings either.
> --
a dismissal.
Eric G
>
>Pt
I usually take my intros and play them backwards.
Eric
Spats
never a question as to when the song is ending..
Spats
"Eric G" <Er...@ether.net> wrote in message
news:7gl7j0h3r3fk80p8u...@4ax.com...
Eric G
wrote:
>Me to, but I take a step further and sit backwards also. That way there's
>never a question as to when the song is ending..
>
>Spats
That's a good idea. I gotta try that next time. :)
Eric
Don Judy
I tried sitting backwards the other night but I'm not flexible enough to do
that anymore. Don't know if I ever was, but it did remind me of a spring
night in the back seat of a VW in a cemetery back in '72. Ah, the mamories
dj.
thom_j
news:10j7qci...@corp.supernews.com...
> Me to, but I take a step further and sit backwards also. That way there's
> never a question as to when the song is ending..
>
> Spats
>
What is it called when you sit backwards & stand on your head?
i am curious tee'..
--
A Short Look Into My Legacy
http://www.n2rif.com/alexis/alexis_1.htm
Max Leggett
wrote:
>"Spats" <sp...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
>news:10j7qci...@corp.supernews.com...
>> Me to, but I take a step further and sit backwards also. That way there's
>> never a question as to when the song is ending..
>>
>> Spats
>>
>
>
>What is it called when you sit backwards & stand on your head?
I dunno, but if your feet smell and your nose runs you're upside down.
thom_j
"Max Leggett" wrote:
> I dunno, but if your feet smell and your nose runs you're upside down.
I knew I could count on Max L! 8^)'... t.j.
Don Judy
"thom_j" <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:M4ydnQG8k7J...@comcast.com...
> "Spats" <sp...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
> news:10j7qci...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Me to, but I take a step further and sit backwards also. That way
there's
> > never a question as to when the song is ending..
> >
> > Spats
> >
>
>
> What is it called when you sit backwards & stand on your head?
> i am curious tee'..
Well, you sit backwards in the head to read and write but that doesn't
involve standing unless you're reading a book recommended by a possible new
girlfriend. But other than that you might call it a reverse 180 twist
sitting headstand. I think that was what caused the Balkanavian to get the
negative score in diving in the Olympics.
dj - a stickler for accuracy where the head is concerned
thom_j
> Well, you sit backwards in the head to read and write but that doesn't
> involve standing unless you're reading a book recommended by a possible
> new
> girlfriend. But other than that you might call it a reverse 180 twist
> sitting headstand. I think that was what caused the Balkanavian to get the
> negative score in diving in the Olympics.
>
> dj - a stickler for accuracy where the head is concerned
>
Now, if I could still only dive as I did as in my "teen years" 8^)'..
t.j. - a not so stickler for accuracy where my head is concerned
--
Don Judy
> "Don Judy" wrote:
> > Well, you sit backwards in the head to read and write but that doesn't
> > involve standing unless you're reading a book recommended by a possible
> > new
> > girlfriend. But other than that you might call it a reverse 180 twist
> > sitting headstand. I think that was what caused the Balkanavian to get
the
> > negative score in diving in the Olympics.
> >
> > dj - a stickler for accuracy where the head is concerned
> >
>
> Now, if I could still only dive as I did as in my "teen years" 8^)'..
> t.j. - a not so stickler for accuracy where my head is concerned
Diving - an enjoyable pastime for all concerned.
thom_j
> Diving - an enjoyable pastime for all concerned.
LoL..Don... Not by this old fert anymore! These days have
long past my old abilities that were once fine tuned, & quite
impressive many decades ago. "and so it goes". 8^)'..t.j.
Pt
wrote:
I still do an occasional dive. :-)
Pt
thom_j
> Pt
yea, yea, I know he trolled me & I love it! 8^)~'...
Pt
wrote:
>> I still do an occasional dive. :-)
Shame on you!
I meant that I play in dives. :-)
Pt
Don Judy
not so bad to get yer head wet. :)
thom_j
"Pt" wrote:
>>> I still do an occasional dive. :-)
>>> Pt
>>Muff? i am curious tee'....
>>yea, yea, I know he trolled me & I love it! 8^)~'...
>>
>
>
> Shame on you!
> I meant that I play in dives. :-)
>
> Pt
yea yea sure sure right 8^)~~~~' t.j.
thom_j
> Like I said: Diving - an enjoyable pastime for all concerned. Sometimes
> it's
> not so bad to get yer head wet. :)
>
Eric G
>
>Now, if I could still only dive as I did as in my "teen years" 8^)'..
>t.j. - a not so stickler for accuracy where my head is concerned
I suppose the RMMGJ thought police will allow these posts, BUT only
because they fit the Subject heading: Endings !!!! :)
Eric
thom_j
Eric I have had already too many 'Endings' to my life but
this is another thread entirely.... 9Lives tee' Datz Me 8^)'...