Identify this jam?
Jim
from who-knows-when?
Good karma to those who participate. Thanks.
Jim
-------------
OK, so I've had this snippet from some show for years, I always liked it
(guess that's why I've had it for years).
Does anyone recognize it? Can you tell me what show it is from?
You can stream it here:
http://audio.rukind.com/shows/UnknownJam.m3u
Or d/l it here
http://audio.rukind.com/shows/UnknownJam.mp3
Thanks for trying.
RossMcGibbon
But as for identifying?
Is it Mangosteen Jam?
Or Spam Jam?
Hope you get a helpful reply from someone.....
Ross
In article <dphesv$hb0$1...@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu>, Jim <jck...@gmail.com>
writes
--
RossMcGibbon
For music reviews, arts, opinions and more - www.vanguard-online.co.uk
"I've been all around the world and I've never seen a statue of a critic" -
Leonard Bernstein
Jim
> Whooo, that's quite something.
>
> But as for identifying?
>
> Is it Mangosteen Jam?
>
> Or Spam Jam?
>
>
>
> Hope you get a helpful reply from someone.....
>
> Ross
I think he was more interested in which show it was from. And which
song it came out of.
But I like Spam Jam. :)
Jim
RossMcGibbon
>
>But I like Spam Jam. :)
>Jim
Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam,
luvverley spam, marvellous spam, wonderful spam,
Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam,
glorious spam, wonderful spam
Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
Uncle John
> http://audio.rukind.com/shows/UnknownJam.mp3
Sounds like early 80's, a jam before drums. Maybe Crazy Fingers or Playin'
before?
JimK
My guess would be more like late '78.
JimK
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
I have to disagree there since the keyboardist heard around two minutes
into this is definitely Brent.
Sounds like a pre-drum jam to me too, but it starts in E - perhaps out
of He's Gone or Eyes (did they ever get this wild on Eyes)?
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Neil X.
> > JimK suggested:
> >
> > My guess would be more like late '78.
> Pat demurred:
>
> I have to disagree there since the keyboardist heard around two minutes
> into this is definitely Brent.
Yep, there's no doubt that Brent is the keyboardist here. I was
guessing 1988 or 1989, but I suppose it could be '87 too. I don't
think it was pre-diabetic coma, as the Jery guitar tone was different
then.
> Sounds like a pre-drum jam to me too, but it starts in E - perhaps out
> of He's Gone or Eyes (did they ever get this wild on Eyes)?
Wow, you have perfect pitch? Definitely a pre-Drums jam, it sounds
like drums are coming up full steam at the end of the snippet.
At any rate, a very pleasing jam, and I am quite certain I've never
heard it before.
Peace,
Neil X.
Lfh
Neil X. wrote:
> Yep, there's no doubt that Brent is the keyboardist here. I was
> guessing 1988 or 1989, but I suppose it could be '87 too. I don't
> think it was pre-diabetic coma, as the Jery guitar tone was different
> then.
I disagree, Neil. I'm hearing a pre-drums 80/81, with Jer's and Brent's
style and tone, and Bobby's got his "I've got no idea how to use this
fucking thing, so let's turn it up and put it in the middle of this
right here" slide thing happening at the 1:43 to 2:10 mark.
Fred
mjd
I'm thinking more '84 - IIRC Jer was using the octave doubler a lot
that year. I keep replaying the very beginning, and it's sounding like
it's coming out of a Playin' jam to me.
Good stumper - gonna have to keep at it.
Neil X.
> Lfh wrote:
>
> Bobby's got his "I've got no idea how to use this
> fucking thing, so let's turn it up and put it in the middle of this
> right here" slide thing happening at the 1:43 to 2:10 mark.
So, just curious, when exactly did Bobby's slide stop sounding like
"II've got no idea how to use this thing?"
Peace,
Neil X.
JonP
>So, just curious, when exactly did Bobby's slide stop sounding like
>"II've got no idea how to use this thing?"
>
>Peace,
>Neil X.
lol......
JonP
Bzl.
"Jim" <jck...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dphesv$hb0$1...@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu...
I'll put my money on fall '79, post LostSaint.
Lfh
Neil X. wrote:
Well, yes, there's that. For me it's a split decision and that split is
at the 12th fret.
Initially, circa 78-81, it was bad all over. After that, he reeled the
fucker in by limiting the places he would inject it (God, the Sugarees
and Stagger Lees I cannot listen to from that period, nevermind the
otherwise lovely World to Give). Also, around 82-3 or so, up till the
12th fret, he actually tamed the beast to the point where could play
the thing reasonably well. Once he got past the 12th fret and headed
into high pitch territory, it was awful right up till the end. But at
least it only happened during the blues tune of the first set.
One of the great mysteries is how such an otherwise talented musician
could stand there and *do* that with such clueless abandon, and it is
only trumped by how the others actually *let* him. I always wondered
why Jerry or Phil didn't walk over and pull that fuckin' thing off his
finger during the early years.
Fred
bradish
"Lfh" <onetas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136488158.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Neil X. wrote:
>
>> > Bobby's got his "I've got no idea how to use this
>> > fucking thing, so let's turn it up and put it in the middle of this
>> > right here" slide thing happening at the 1:43 to 2:10 mark.
>
>
> could stand there and *do* that with such clueless abandon, and it is
> only trumped by how the others actually *let* him. I always wondered
> why Jerry or Phil didn't walk over and pull that fuckin' thing off his
> finger during the early years.
Judging from what Phil said in his post earlier today, he likes to folks who
dont care what others think. Maybe
Jeff
> I always wondered
> why Jerry or Phil didn't walk over and pull that fuckin' thing off his
> finger during the early years.
They were pretty confused. How could they tell the difference between a "Donna Wail"(tm)
and a "Bobby Slide"? Either one can strike the listener deaf (if they're lucky), and
alley cats flee from both...so who can blame them? By that point, they had grown numb to
the sound of street cats making love.
"Have you ever listened to the sound, of Street Cats playing slide?"
~Jeff
Joe
I can't decide if this thread is like a DSO show where you try to guess
the date, or the beginnings of a Dead Head TV game show, "ID That Jam."
Joe
Tim Ujin
Lost Sailor? Bobby on slide? 81-84?
Boy, I'll tell you what: none of these guesses makes me want to listen
to that jam very much!
Bill
"Lfh" wrote
>
> Neil X. wrote:
>
> > So, just curious, when exactly did Bobby's slide stop sounding like
> > "II've got no idea how to use this thing?"
>
> Well, yes, there's that. For me it's a split decision and that split is
> at the 12th fret.
>
> Initially, circa 78-81, it was bad all over. After that, he reeled the
> fucker in by limiting the places he would inject it (God, the Sugarees
> and Stagger Lees I cannot listen to from that period, nevermind the
> otherwise lovely World to Give).
Hmm. I've always thought the slide he played on the 11-20-78 If I Had the
World to Give to work really well in combo with Jerry's soloing. I love
that version.
Seth Jackson
>At some point in the late 70's/early 80's Bob decided to become a more
>prominent part of "the sound".
Actually, he seemed to me to be a lot more prominent a part of the
sound in the late '60s and early '70s. In the late '70s and early
'80s, Bob's guitar tone became much more subdued than it was
previously, which I guess he felt was necessary to blend in better
with Jerry's thinner, more shimmery tone.
Lfh
Bill wrote:
> Hmm. I've always thought the slide he played on the 11-20-78 If I Had the
> World to Give to work really well in combo with Jerry's soloing. I love
> that version.
Bill, I respectfully disagree. Hey, if it works for you, it works, but
I can't deal with his playing on any of the three versions they did. I
find the one from Red Rocks to my favorite because he puts it away
early on in the outro, but the Cleveland one grates on me.
I know Jerry said that he put Stagger Lee away because he couldn't deal
with what Bob's slide on it, but I don't know if that's why he shelved
WtG.
Fred
Seth Jackson
>It's interesting that you'd say that. At shows I saw (78->85) I was
>never really put off by Weir's sound as much as I am listening to
>Archive SBDs and Dicks Picks.
>
>For instance, DP 25 ( May 1978 ) is mostly unlistenable because of
>Weir's guitar playing. It's just so upfront frankly not that good.
>Maybe it's all in the mix? I've been listening to DP 8 lately (May 1970
>- especially Morning Dew ) and he sounds so great there.
'78 doesn't count because he started playing that gawdawful slide.
Lfh
Seth Jackson wrote:
> >For instance, DP 25 ( May 1978 ) is mostly unlistenable because of
> >Weir's guitar playing. It's just so upfront frankly not that good.
> '78 doesn't count because he started playing that gawdawful slide.
Whoa, Seth. I have no idea where sbin is coming from with the
unlistenable comment, but you aren't going to toss the baby out with
the bathwater here, is ya? While the slide did put a damper on things,
his playing overall is wonderful. God, the stuff he does on the Peggy-o
on 1-22-78, for one example, is sublime. Are you familiar with that
show? ###
Fred
Seth Jackson
>
>Seth Jackson wrote:
>> >For instance, DP 25 ( May 1978 ) is mostly unlistenable because of
>> >Weir's guitar playing. It's just so upfront frankly not that good.
>
>
>> '78 doesn't count because he started playing that gawdawful slide.
>
>Whoa, Seth. I have no idea where sbin is coming from with the
>unlistenable comment, but you aren't going to toss the baby out with
>the bathwater here, is ya? While the slide did put a damper on things,
>his playing overall is wonderful. God, the stuff he does on the Peggy-o
>on 1-22-78 is sublime. Are you familiar with that show? ###
Gotta check that one out. ;^) But wait, Jan. '78 really counts as
part of '77.
Lfh
sbi...@speakeasy.net wrote:
> > I have no idea where sbin is coming from with the unlistenable comment,
>
> recordings Weir plays too high up the fretboard and I find it
> irritating and unlistenable.
I don't have that one, so maybe you could find an example of this from
something on the archive and I could listen to that and hear what you
mean. I know those exursions up the fretboard with the slide were
excruciating, but once he dispensed with that, I don't recall him
venturing up there with any regularity.
> I'm willing to consider that maybe it's all in the soundboard mix -
> Meaning that on the SBD recordings, Weir's guitar track is too loud and
> doesn't reflect what it sounded like to the audience and/or the stage
> monitors.
I think this varied greatly from tape to tape because there are some
where he's buried in the mix and you have to hunt for him. Funny, that
seems to be suitable for your tastes, but for me, I was always wanting
them to turn up Bobby (the slide shit being the exception, of course).
Folks always yammer about Phil being a foil for Jerry, but I think Weir
was equally such. Take a listen to the example I stated, the Peggy-o
from 1-22-78, to see what I mean. It's the context he surrounds Jerry
with that makes it so beautiful.
Fred
Lfh
sbi...@speakeasy.net wrote:
> >
> > so maybe you could find an example of this from
> > something on the archive and I could listen to that and hear what you
> > mean.
>
Oh, dear. Mileage is such a funny thing, eh? Sbin, that's my all-time
fave Half-step, bar none and on my short list of best Dead ever. The
jam out of the "across the rio grandios" at the end is one of my
definitions of the X factor. They just blaze that thing. I'll go spin
it and see if I can pick up on what you may be objecting to.
Fred
Lfh
Ok, I hear what you are talking about. See, mileage varies, cause I
love that sound. And that Half-step gets my vote as the best show
opener ever, except when I'm voting for the 11-30-73 Dew.
Fred
Lfh
sbin...@speakeasy.net wrote:
> At some point in the late 70's/early 80's Bob decided to become a more
> fretboard and that led to more experimentation. Slide playing was an
> offshoot of that. To my ears, a big turning point was when Bob began
> singing "Comin' around *Y'all*" in "The Other One". That was the
> seedling of a new GD era.
Well, I don't know if he became more prominent, cause I always thought
he was, but he certainly did change his style. For all the folks that
like to rag on him, (and I'm not saying you are doing so), he certainly
did keep evolving. You listen to Bob from a 73, 83, and 93 show and it
might as well be a different person altoghether (ala the keyboards),
his styles are so different.
Fred
JimK
>>
>> Ok, I hear what you are talking about. See, mileage varies, cause I
>> love that sound. And that Half-step gets my vote as the best show
>> opener ever,
>
>That "sound" is not pleasant to my ears. But that wasn't my point.
>My point was (cut and paste)
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Because it's such a sore spot for me, I've given Weir's slide playing
>some thought. Here's my conclusion:
>
>At some point in the late 70's/early 80's Bob decided to become a more
>prominent part of "the sound". He started playing higher up the
>fretboard and that led to more experimentation. Slide playing was an
>offshoot of that. To my ears, a big turning point was when Bob began
>singing "Comin' around *Y'all*" in "The Other One". That was the
>seedling of a new GD era.
There was an interview in Guitar Player magazine (I think) back in the
early 90's where Weir and Garcia discussed Bobby's change in sound. If
I recall correctly, the reason Bobby gave for moving up the fretboard
was to differentiate his sound from Jerry, who had started playing
more in the upper registers.
JimK
Seth Jackson
>At some point in the late 70's/early 80's Bob decided to become a more
>prominent part of "the sound". He started playing higher up the
>fretboard and that led to more experimentation. Slide playing was an
>offshoot of that. To my ears, a big turning point was when Bob began
>singing "Comin' around *Y'all*" in "The Other One". That was the
>seedling of a new GD era.
I have to, once again, disagree. To my ears, Bobby was a far more
prominent part of the sound in the late '60s and early '70s. In the
late '70s, his sound became lighter, airier, and harder to hear in the
mix.
He picked up slide from hanging out with Lowell George. Perhaps if
George had stayed around longer, he'd have had enough time to teach
Bob to play the darned thing properly.
Lfh
Seth Jackson wrote:
> I have to, once again, disagree. To my ears, Bobby was a far more
> prominent part of the sound in the late '60s and early '70s. In the
> late '70s, his sound became lighter, airier, and harder to hear in the
> mix.
Again, I think it's dependent greatly on the particular tape, cause
sometimes he's buried in the mix and others he's right there. It's
weird you would describe it as lighter and arier later, cause that's
how I think of the Dead as a whole in the early 70's. There's just a
lot more space in the mix, whereas later it was a much denser sound to
me.
Another thing that changed his sound and style dramatically was his use
of the whang bar in 83 and 84. Have I ever mentioned that I like those
years?
> He picked up slide from hanging out with Lowell George. Perhaps if
> George had stayed around longer, he'd have had enough time to teach
> Bob to play the darned thing properly.
LOL. Maybe Jer could have added a pointer or two. I was listening to a
Row Jimmy (1-15-79) the other day and Weir did his little slide thing
at the start of the 2nd jam. Jer let him go about 8 bars and cuts him
off to do his own slide solo. It almost seemed like a "here's how you
do it, junior."
Fred
Seth Jackson
>
>Seth Jackson wrote:
>> I have to, once again, disagree. To my ears, Bobby was a far more
>> prominent part of the sound in the late '60s and early '70s. In the
>> late '70s, his sound became lighter, airier, and harder to hear in the
>> mix.
>
>Again, I think it's dependent greatly on the particular tape, cause
>sometimes he's buried in the mix and others he's right there. It's
>weird you would describe it as lighter and arier later, cause that's
>how I think of the Dead as a whole in the early 70's. There's just a
>lot more space in the mix, whereas later it was a much denser sound to
>me.
I'm not talking about the Dead as a whole, I'm talking about Bob's
guitar in particular. Clearly, Jerry had a fatter guitar sound in
the earlier years. So did Bob. My guess is that Bob thinned out his
tone so as to avoid overwhelming the thinned out tone that Jerry had
adopted.
The overall mix may have been denser in the late '70s due to two
drummers plus a piano.
Mookie
Ok, that's funny. Well done. Wish I thought of that.