How Ignorant Am I?
Gary Morrison
Having grown up with classical music as a kid, and classical being what
I've mostly listened since then, it's fairly unusual for me to run into a
composer whose name I haven't at least heard before.
The last time that happened to me - about 8 years ago or so - it was a
somewhat embarrassing experience. Louis Spohr. Never hearda him before
then, but when I asked my parents and some folks in classical record
stores, I felt like a total idiot. "Oh yeah, Spohr; you mean you've
never heard of Louis Spohr?!"
Well, I just heard on the radio a wind ... I think they called it a
Gran Partita ... in Eb by another composer I'd never heard of before, from
roughly the same time period as Spohr, and probably roughly the same
geographic region as well.
So I'm guessing that it's time for me to be embarrassed about never
having heard of him before.
Franz Krommer.
Am I to be laughed at for not having heard of Franz Krommer? I don't
see any references to him in any of my books on classical composers, so
maybe I'm not alone.
Interesting music I'd say, what little I've heard of it anyway. My
assessment is that it's a lot like Mozart (W.A. that is), with a little
bit of chromaticism thrown out and a little bit of Beethoven thrown in.
But otherwise, it's pretty similar, in that it has a similar kind of
slight Italian hint in it that Mozart's music has, but Haydn's doesn't.
He also uses some of the same melodic development tricks that Mozart did,
like repeating melodies with a key motif inverted (lots of examples of
that in the "Jupiter" symphony, for example).
john harkness
Gary Morrison wrote:
Boiling down a long post: How embarassed should I be that I never heard
of certain obscure classical composers, notably Louis Spohr and Franz
Krommer?
John Harkness:
Not terribly. It isn't possible to know anything, and you talk more
knowledgeably about mozart than, say, 99 percent of the population, who
probably saw that stupid movie and think that Mozart was poisoned by
F.Murray Abraham. (Now, Salieri, there's a composer you really don't
need to know.)
Spohr was Scandinavian, a violinist and conductor who wrote one of the
great violin instructional manuals and was oddly enough, the first
conductor to beat time with a baton. several good (sub-Mozartean) violin
concertos, a bunch of string quartets which are really designed to show
off the first violinist's virtuosity.
His great pieces were compositions for big chamber groups -- there's a
nonet, and a clutch of double quartets (that is, pieces for two string
quartets, not octets)
Krommer, or Franitsek Kramar, was a Bohemian or Moravian composer with a
line in music for wind instruments -- His great pieces are his Grand
Partitas for Winds -- there's an exceptional recording on Naxos, so the
price is right, also a couple of good symphonies (Mathias Bamert has
recorded them for Chandos as part of the "contemporaries of mozart"
series.
You don't know them because they got lost in history. They were second
(or possibly third) stringers because they are contemporaries of Mozart,
Beethoven and Schubert. Fashion passed them by, the history books
ignored them because they aren't "major" they were just there, working
away. It doesn't mean thay were bad composers, it just when history --
and historians, choose what to remember, there is a tendency to remember
the few -- Mozart as the supreme composer of the classical era,
Beethoven as the man who took classicism, loaded it with C-4 and blew it
up. Krommer and Spohr didn't do anything like that.
Frankly, Krommer is one of my favorite minor composers -- I like his
music much better than Weber or Hummel, to pick some better known second
stringers of the same period.
If you like Krommer, try Antonin Reicha -- another Czech -- who gets
ignored by the history books. Beethoven badmouthed him, but that's
because he undercut Beethoven's price for some hackwork. But a terrific
composer for small wind ensemble -- he wrote a couple of dozen wind
quintets.
John Harkness
j...@netcom.ca
Alan Swindells
In article <mr88cet-2506...@pmnet01-15.austin.texas.net>,
mr8...@texas.net (Gary Morrison) wrote:
>
> So I'm guessing that it's time for me to be embarrassed about never
> having heard of him before.
>
> Franz Krommer.
>
> Am I to be laughed at for not having heard of Franz Krommer? I don't
> see any references to him in any of my books on classical composers, so
> maybe I'm not alone.
Not laughed at, no.
As to finding him in the reference works, he should be in Grove,
but I haven't got it to hand so I cannot be sure. Like many middle-
European composers of the period he changed his name so that the
Germans could pronounce it. If you don't find any references to
Franz Krommer, try Frantisek Kramar (put an acute accent over the
last a, and an inverted hat over the s and the last r. Damn the
limitations of ASCII)
>
> Interesting music I'd say, what little I've heard of it anyway. My
> assessment is that it's a lot like Mozart (W.A. that is), with a little
> bit of chromaticism thrown out and a little bit of Beethoven thrown in.
> But otherwise, it's pretty similar, in that it has a similar kind of
> slight Italian hint in it that Mozart's music has, but Haydn's doesn't.
> He also uses some of the same melodic development tricks that Mozart did,
> like repeating melodies with a key motif inverted (lots of examples of
> that in the "Jupiter" symphony, for example).
>
>
Very much of the period, not particularly challenging but a good
listen.
Have fun!
--
Regards: Alan * alan...@argonet.co.uk *
Quote of the week: 'I hope scientists will get a move on and find the
gene which makes women unable to have their money ready by the time
they reach the front of the queue.' (From a letter to The Telegraph)
Lawrence Faltz
Gary Morrison wrote:
> Am I to be laughed at for not having heard of Franz Krommer? I don't
> see any references to him in any of my books on classical composers, so
> maybe I'm not alone.
Yes, I think you should not only be laughed at, you should seriously
think of seppuku for this great transgression.
:-)
Actually, considering Grove is 20 volumes long, there must be a million
unknown composers, most thankfully unknown, and there is every reason
not to know the vast majority of composers. You would be wasting your
time trying to hard to seek most of them out. But ther are a few hidden
gems...
LLF
john harkness
John Harkness writes:
Albert Silverman wrote:
>
> In article <33B179...@netcom.ca>, john harkness <j...@netcom.ca> wrote:
> >
> >Not terribly. It isn't possible to know anything, and...
>
> Right on! It looks like you've been reading the companion newsgroup:
> wreck.music.decomposed. Nobody over there knows anything!
once again, pilloried for a typo! aaaaaagh. maybe I shoulda said "it
ain't possible to know nuthin'"
Colin Rosenthal
On 25 Jun 1997 04:58:23 GMT, Gary Morrison <mr8...@texas.net> wrote:
> Having grown up with classical music as a kid, and classical being what
>I've mostly listened since then, it's fairly unusual for me to run into a
>composer whose name I haven't at least heard before.
>
> The last time that happened to me - about 8 years ago or so - it was a
>somewhat embarrassing experience. Louis Spohr. Never hearda him before
>then, but when I asked my parents and some folks in classical record
>stores, I felt like a total idiot. "Oh yeah, Spohr; you mean you've
>never heard of Louis Spohr?!"
>
> Well, I just heard on the radio a wind ... I think they called it a
>Gran Partita ... in Eb by another composer I'd never heard of before, from
>roughly the same time period as Spohr, and probably roughly the same
>geographic region as well.
>
>having heard of him before.
>
> Franz Krommer.
I've heard of Krommer, but I don't know Spohr. Otoh, I've never
claimed to be anything other than ignorant. The Naxos web site
at hnh.com gives the following biographical info
Krommer, Franz (1759 - 1831)
Born in Kamenice, Frantisek Kramár, better known by his
German name as Franz Krommer, made his career in the
service of various noblemen, finally settling in Vienna, where
he became director of music for the Court Ballet and later
entering the service of the Emperor Franz I, finally as
imperial director of chamber music and court composer.
--
Colin Rosenthal
High Altitude Observatory
Boulder, Colorado
rose...@hao.ucar.edu
Albert Silverman
Gary Morrison
> Not terribly.
Thanks for the consolation there!
> ... probably saw that stupid movie and think that Mozart was poisoned by
> F.Murray Abraham.
I personally thought it an amusing movie provided that you don't take it
to be historically accurate, which as you pointed out it was not in the
slightest. It is, however, more or less accurate to the totally unfounded
nonsense rumors that went around many years after Mozart's death, some of
which Salieri himself seems to have started.
> (Now, Salieri, there's a composer you really don't
> need to know.)
Ya know, I picked up a CD of wind ensembles by Salieri. My general
impression:
About 20% of it: Outright bad. Dreadfully tedious and amateurish.
Remaining 80%: Not flagrantly "bad" as much as just "not good".
It's not so much that most of it was repulsive or laughable, as much as
that there just wasn't anything interesting about it. It was kinda
there...
> Spohr was Scandinavian, a violinist and conductor who wrote one of the
> great violin instructional manuals
I picked up several Spohr CDs after I first learned of him. It sounds
to me like his two most memorable forms are his works for clarinet, and
his idea of the "double quartet", as you mentioned.
> Beethoven as the man who took classicism, loaded it with C-4 and blew it
> up. Krommer and Spohr didn't do anything like that.
From "Lexicon of Musical Invective" (a riotously funny book for any of
you who haven't heard of it):
I confess freely that I could never get any enjoyment out of
Beethoven's last works. Yes, I must include among them even the
much-admired Ninth Symphony, the fourth movement of which seems to me so
ugly, in such bad taste, and in the conception of Schiller's Ode so cheap
that I cannot even now understand how such a genius as Beethoven could
write it down. I find in it another corroboration of what I had noticed
already in Vienna, that Beethoven was deficient in esthetic imagery and
lacked the sense of beauty.
- Louis Spohr, 1861
> If you like Krommer, try Antonin Reicha -- another Czech -- who gets
> ignored by the history books.
Now Reicha is a composer that, unlike Krommer, I have heard of many
times, but am not terribly familiar with. Good tip; thanks.
Krehbiel, Hanns
john harkness wrote:
.......
>
> Spohr was Scandinavian, a violinist and conductor who wrote one of the
Partly wrong. Spohr was a German by any standard, just they gave himt a French
first name. (Not unusual at the time; the original first name of Heine was Harry.)
See The Spohr Society of Great Britain home page:
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/societies/spohr.html
A quotation from it: Spohr was born in the North German city of Braunschweig
(Brunswick) on 5 April 1784 and as a boy showed talent for the violin. When he was
fifteen he joined the ducal orchestra and by the age of eighteen had reached the
stage at which the Duke of Brunswick considered him ready for further development.
....................
> Frankly, Krommer is one of my favorite minor composers
Sabine Meyer and her brother have recorded his concertos for two clarinets
> If you like Krommer, try Antonin Reicha -- another Czech -- who gets
> ignored by the history books. Beethoven badmouthed him, but that's
> because he undercut Beethoven's price for some hackwork. But a terrific
> composer for small wind ensemble -- he wrote a couple of dozen wind
> quintets.
When I was young I played the Danzi quintets with pleasure, but I refused
to continue with the Reichas, which the oboist brought along. The urge to yawn
spoiled my - whatsit in English? embouchure, Ansatz?
BHeneg8560
Don't you know?
best wishes
Ben Heneghan
john harkness
Krehbiel, Hanns wrote:
>
> john harkness wrote:
>
>
> >
>..> If you like Krommer, try Antonin Reicha -- another Czech -- who gets
> > ignored by the history books. Beethoven badmouthed him, but that's
> > because he undercut Beethoven's price for some hackwork. But a terrific
> > composer for small wind ensemble -- he wrote a couple of dozen wind
> > quintets.
>
> When I was young I played the Danzi quintets with pleasure, but I refused
> to continue with the Reichas, which the oboist brought along. The urge to yawn
> spoiled my - whatsit in English? embouchure, Ansatz?
>
> kreh...@desy.de
You're right about Spohr, being German -- Now what's driving me crazy is
who did I have him confused with -- Scandinavian composer, classical
era, worked extensively in Germany?
Speaking as a listener, I was stuck mid-row at a recital where a Danzi
quintet was played, and nearly chewed my own foot off to get out of the
trap. Do you complain about Reicha as a player or as a listener?
rsma...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Mr. Harkness, how can you call C.M. von Weber a "second stringer"...?
--R. Ekedal "Mein Gott!"- Richard Wagner
john harkness
rsma...@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote:
>
> Mr. Harkness, how can you call C.M. von Weber a "second stringer"...?
> --R. Ekedal "Mein Gott!"- Richard Wagner
Okay -- Vienna in the classical era Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert --
that's the first string.
Weber is a very good composer, occasionally (Der Freischutz, the
Clarinet Concertos, the Piano Sonatas) a great composer.
Is he a composer on the same level of inspiration and creation
throughout his career as Beethoven, Schubert, Mozart or Haydn? I don't
think so. (And I'll bet Weber didn't think so either, not as regards
Beethoven, certainly.)
There are a lot of fine composers in Vienna in this period -- Weber,
Hummel, Krommer -- who are basically the second team because of who's
playing on the first team. It doesn't mean they don't produce music of
high quality. It just means they're stuck by history with an impossible
measure of comparison. Sorry.
John Harkness
j...@netcom.ca
Eric Schissel
In article <33B2FD...@netcom.ca>, john harkness <j...@netcom.ca> wrote:
>
>You're right about Spohr, being German -- Now what's driving me crazy is
>who did I have him confused with -- Scandinavian composer, classical
>era, worked extensively in Germany?
Franz Berwald. Personal favorite...
>
>Speaking as a listener, I was stuck mid-row at a recital where a Danzi
>quintet was played, and nearly chewed my own foot off to get out of the
>trap. Do you complain about Reicha as a player or as a listener?
Hrm. I enjoy listening to both Danzi and Reicha quintets, and regard the
latter as more filling.
-Eric Schissel
Opus47
I am very ignorant. Just got flamed by calling Richard Strauss a Nazi.
Further flamed by the number of recordings of Part.
Even though I have a huge Shostakovich collection I probably still either
don't know or have forgotten many facts about Dmitri. But I would
probably get an "A" for a "creative" biography on the man in today's
public schools.... or in even public universitites for that matter.
It's easy to make assumptions....seeking the truth in something valiant.
And then sometimes even the commonly assumed "facts" are wrong.
Fred