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Dan Koren's favourite pianists?

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andrewg...@gmail.com

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Jan 22, 2006, 4:11:28 PM1/22/06
to
Over the years DK has seemingly disparaged every pianist under the sun,
and I've really lost count of the bangers, crashers, and arthritic
geriatrics whose art, according to our beloved DK, is a sordid or
aborted attempt at "music".

It occured to me this evening when i read DK "dissing" Gulda....that i
am only aware of a few pianists that DK
"likes"......Richter.......well, perhaps only one.

If anyone knows which pianists are "acceptable" to DK, or if Dan would
care to address us in person with a list of 10-15 pianists who he
actually likes/admires/worships like a cat (with reasons why they are
preferable to arrau, backhaus, annie fischer et al!) it would make for
an interesting discussion i think, and certainly preferable to an
interminable thread about racism, facism, anti-semitism, semitism,
religion, and all the other other non-musical topics that seem to
prosper to the detriment of, dare i say it, genuine musical discussion.

let me start off with some possibles, and see if they get scrathed from
the list:

1) richter
2) yudina
3) sanchez
4) feinberg
5) cziffra
6) gilels
7) ciani
8) katchen
9) cortot
10) nikolayeva

SG

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Jan 22, 2006, 4:19:34 PM1/22/06
to

andrewgrims...@gmail.com wrote:

> It occured to me this evening when i read DK "dissing" Gulda....that i
> am only aware of a few pianists that DK
> "likes"......Richter.......well, perhaps only one.

> let me start off with some possibles, and see if they get scrathed from
> the list:

[with my comments]

> 1) richter - yes
> 2) yudina - very partially
> 3) sanchez - yes
> 4) feinberg - yes
> 5) cziffra - yes
> 6) gilels - so - so
> 7) ciani ???
> 8) katchen -don't know
> 9) cortot - like Edwin Fischer, somewhat, but with a lot of reservations and cheap shots

I am surprised to see you have not added to the likables Michelangeli,
Conrad Hansen, Sokolov, Zhukov, Rosenthal, Rubakyte, Maryla Jonas,
Sofronitsky, Pletnev, Cole, and at least a dozen of others I cannot
think of in less than 20 seconds - which listing the above has taken
me.

regards,
SG

John Harrington

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Jan 22, 2006, 4:51:49 PM1/22/06
to
andrewg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Over the years DK has seemingly disparaged every pianist under the sun,
> and I've really lost count of the bangers, crashers, and arthritic
> geriatrics whose art, according to our beloved DK, is a sordid or
> aborted attempt at "music".
>
> It occured to me this evening when i read DK "dissing" Gulda....that i
> am only aware of a few pianists that DK
> "likes"......Richter.......well, perhaps only one.

Why, in god's name, do you care?


J

andrewg...@gmail.com

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Jan 22, 2006, 5:44:15 PM1/22/06
to

Well, naturally John i don't "really" care....did i give that
impression?

Or perhaps you are just querying why DK in particular? in which case i
find his extreme polarisation of preferences bizarre; pianists are
invariably either "dire" and effectively a sham....or they are world
beaters. very little if any middle ground. my personal preferences
aside, there are many pianists who i just dont get, or dont feel any
affinity for, for whom others love (kempff, serkin, curzon, brendel,
schiff etc etc), but i dont go around slagging them off just because i
dont, or cant, get them!

Like i said before, this is a "musical" discussion group, and i get fed
up of "political" threads dominating. If all of these group members get
so worked up about their political/religious/moral convictions, why
dont they talk about it some place else, or more precisely, some other
group? I have no intention in engaging in such pointless slanging
matches with people i dont know.

vive la musique classique! ;)

AG

John Thomas

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Jan 22, 2006, 6:00:18 PM1/22/06
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In article <1137966709.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"John Harrington" <bear...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dan's dislikes, while occasionally on the mark (meaning only that I
sometimes agree) are too off the wall to be reliable, but his
recommendations for pianists we may not have heard are generally worth
pursuing. I'd never heard of half the pianists on his Gold Star list.
BTW, add Ernst Levy plus a host of French pianists who rarely get
mentioned here to the list.

--
Regards,
John Thomas

abac...@att.net

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Jan 22, 2006, 6:16:51 PM1/22/06
to
how can you take dk seriously ( or any one else) who sincerely thinks
that Sanchez was a great pianist......at best, pure nonsense

AB

John Harrington

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Jan 22, 2006, 6:33:16 PM1/22/06
to
John Thomas wrote:
> In article <1137966709.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> "John Harrington" <bear...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > andrewg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Over the years DK has seemingly disparaged every pianist under the sun,
> > > and I've really lost count of the bangers, crashers, and arthritic
> > > geriatrics whose art, according to our beloved DK, is a sordid or
> > > aborted attempt at "music".
> > >
> > > It occured to me this evening when i read DK "dissing" Gulda....that i
> > > am only aware of a few pianists that DK
> > > "likes"......Richter.......well, perhaps only one.
> >
> > Why, in god's name, do you care?
> >
> >
> > J
>
> Dan's dislikes, while occasionally on the mark (meaning only that I
> sometimes agree) are too off the wall to be reliable, but his
> recommendations for pianists we may not have heard are generally worth
> pursuing.

No more than pianists discovered at random would be.


J

Sam

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Jan 22, 2006, 6:41:03 PM1/22/06
to
On 22 Jan 2006 15:16:51 -0800, abac...@att.net wrote:

>how can you take dk seriously ( or any one else) who sincerely thinks
>that Sanchez was a great pianist......at best, pure nonsense
>
>AB

I haven't tried Sanchez, but when I had a chance to pick up Nadia
Cole's Ravel, Bartok, Liszt disc for $3 recently, I did and am much
happier as a result. All because of Dan.

benjo maso

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Jan 22, 2006, 6:56:56 PM1/22/06
to

"SG" <SGG...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137964774.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> andrewgrims...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It occured to me this evening when i read DK "dissing" Gulda....that i
>> am only aware of a few pianists that DK
>> "likes"......Richter.......well, perhaps only one.
>
>> let me start off with some possibles, and see if they get scrathed from
>> the list:
>
> [with my comments]
>
>> 1) richter - yes
>> 2) yudina - very partially
>> 3) sanchez - yes
>> 4) feinberg - yes
>> 5) cziffra - yes
>> 6) gilels - so - so
>> 7) ciani ???


Don't you know Ciani's recording of the Chopin etudes? Unsurpassed, IMO.

Benjo Maso


Tony - sidoze

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:03:02 PM1/22/06
to

Do you think so? I find them rather pedestrian frankly. Unlike his
Nocturnes, which are as good as it gets IMO.

tomdeacon

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:03:15 PM1/22/06
to

While from your personal standpoint it is nice to have picked up Ms.
Cole's disc for the paltry sum of three bucks, t would have been much
better for the career of Ms. Cole and indeed for the likelihood that
you would ever discover more CDs of this fine Canadian pianist if you
had purchased the disc when it first appeared at Top Price, before
Decca/DG (her first CD appeared originally on the DG label in Canada,
causing utter consternation in the President of DG, who thought his
company deserved better pianists, like Lang Lang!!!) had decided to
jetison her for "poor sales".

TD

tomdeacon

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:03:32 PM1/22/06
to

While from your personal standpoint it is nice to have picked up Ms.
Cole's disc for the paltry sum of three bucks, it would have been much

Dan Koren

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:23:33 PM1/22/06
to
<andrewg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137964288.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>
> Over the years DK has seemingly disparaged every pianist under the sun,


Not *every* pianist under the Sun.


> and I've really lost count of the bangers, crashers, and arthritic
> geriatrics whose art, according to our beloved DK, is a sordid or
> aborted attempt at "music".


If you had taken the time to understand why I like or dislike a
pianist, you might have learned something. Instead, you prefer
to recite the old slogans and stick to the pre-conceived notions
that were washed into your brain by teachers, reviewers, etc..


> It occured to me this evening when i read DK "dissing" Gulda....


I've heard Gulda enough times to have developed a legitimate
opinion. The briefest characterization one can make of him is
that he was the German equivalent of Gould.


> that i am only aware of a few pianists that DK "likes"......
> Richter.......well, perhaps only one.
>
> If anyone knows which pianists are "acceptable" to DK, or if


Geez! Such indirection is downright flattering -- not to mention
a direct invitation to misrepresentation and misunderstanding.


> Dan would care to address us in person with a list of 10-15


You could have asked more directly. I am beginning to wonder:
are you British?


> pianists who he actually likes/admires/worships like a cat


You are oversimplifying things.

First, I do not admire or worship anyone or anything (cats of
course are something else).

Second, I judge individual performances, not pianists. When I
say I like a pianists, that is really only a shorthand that
summarizes a statistical evaluation.


> (with reasons why they are preferable to arrau, backhaus,
> annie fischer et al!) it would make for an interesting
> discussion i think,


I have stated my reasons for liking or disliking various
pianists many times. You just didn't bother the read rmcr
archives, and/or the reasons I gave did not resonate with
you.


> and certainly preferable to an interminable thread about
> racism, facism, anti-semitism, semitism, religion, and
> all the other other non-musical topics that seem to
> prosper to the detriment of, dare i say it, genuine
> musical discussion.


I certainly did not start this trend on rmcr. However, I
did promise that as long as *anyone* who posts here will
engage in politically inspired or tainted discussion, I
will slap them back with all the force I can muster.

Capisce?


> let me start off with some possibles, and see if they
> get scrathed from the list:


Don't even bother.

Here's a brief summary in no particular order (I hope you
don't expect me to remember everything, do you?):


1) Dislikes:

Anda, Arrau, Bachauer, Backhaus, Barenboim, Berezovsky, Brendull,
Ciani, Curzon, Entremont, Fischer, Fischer, Fleischer, Gavrilov,
Gieseking, Goode, Gould, Gulda, Haskil, Haebler, Hess, Istomin,
Kapell, Kempf, Kempff, Kersenbaum, Kissin, Kraus, Lipatti, List,
Ney, Nikolayeva, Ohlsson, Pennario, Perahia, Peterson, Pollini,
Pressler, Schiff, Serkin, Serkin, Shermann, Shure, Solomon,
Uchida, Yudina, etc...


2) Likes:

Afanassiev, Argerich, Barere, Barto, Bashkirov, Bayless,
Beroff, Berman, Brubeck, Chen, Clidat, Cole, Cziffra, Datyner,
Davidovich, Devetzi, Elias, Evans, Eschenbach, Feinberg, Feltsman,
Fiorentino, Flier, Francois, Garner, Gelber, Gilels, Gothoni, Hansen,
Horowitz, Janis, Jonas, Katchen, Kern, Kocsis, Kuleshov, Kuzmin,
Leonskaja, Leschenko, Levant, Levy, Lewenthal, Lhevinne, Lisitsa,
Loussier, Malcuzynski, Matsuzawa, Michelangeli, Monk, Mustonen, Nat,
Ousset, Pachmann, Pletnev, Powell, Raekkalio, Ranki, Richter, Rosenthal,
Rubackyte, Rubalcaba, Samuel, Sanchez, Schmidt, Schnabel, Sirota,
Sokolov, Sofronitsky, Tabe, Tatum, Van Cliburn, Virsaladze, Volodos,
Watts, Wild, Yoshikawa, Young, Zak, Zhukov, etc...

Understand that neither list should be taken as complete, and
that the fact I like a pianist *statistically* does not imply
I like every single performance by him/her. Conversely, the
fact that I dislike a pianist *statistically* does not mean
I dislike every single one of his/her performances.


Are you happy now?

dk


Dan Koren

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:33:37 PM1/22/06
to
<andrewg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137969855.0...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

>
> John Harrington wrote:
> Or perhaps you are just querying why DK in particular? in which case i
> find his extreme polarisation of preferences bizarre; pianists are
> invariably either "dire" and effectively a sham....or they are world
> beaters. very little if any middle ground. my personal preferences
> aside, there are many pianists who i just dont get, or dont feel any
> affinity for, for whom others love (kempff, serkin, curzon, brendel,
> schiff etc etc), but i dont go around slagging them off just because i
> dont, or cant, get them!


Reading what you wrote above one cannot but wonder about your IQ.

Let's try to explain this with a simple example. Let's say you go
out to dinner and you don't like the food. Do you split hairs and
try to analyze which part of it you did not like, which was OK,
which was not, and why? Or do you just conclude you didn't like
the food? Methinks it is more likely the latter, not the former.


> Like i said before, this is a "musical" discussion group,


Of course, but not limited to any one person's notion of
what makes a discussion.

Capisce?


> and i get fed up of "political" threads dominating.


Then go find yourself another sandbox.


> If all of these group members get so worked up about their
> political/religious/moral convictions, why dont they talk
> about it some place else, or more precisely, some other
> group? I have no intention in engaging in such pointless
> slanging matches with people i dont know.


Maybe you should think about newsgroups as the internet
equivalent of street gang fighting grounds... ;-)

dk


Dan Koren

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:38:05 PM1/22/06
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"benjo maso" <benjo...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:4eef1$43d41bc7$3ec20b43$16...@news.chello.nl...


You gotta be kidding.

Lots of enthusiasm but very crude.

dk


WannabeFree

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:40:14 PM1/22/06
to


Where's Pogorelich, the genius ? and Zimerman ?

Dan Koren

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:39:32 PM1/22/06
to

"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137974582.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>
> benjo maso wrote:
>> "SG" <SGG...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1137964774.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > andrewgrims...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> It occured to me this evening when i read DK "dissing" Gulda....that i
>> >> am only aware of a few pianists that DK
>> >> "likes"......Richter.......well, perhaps only one.
>> >
>> >> let me start off with some possibles, and see if they get scrathed
>> >> from
>> >> the list:
>> >
>> > [with my comments]
>> >
>> >> 1) richter - yes
>> >> 2) yudina - very partially
>> >> 3) sanchez - yes
>> >> 4) feinberg - yes
>> >> 5) cziffra - yes
>> >> 6) gilels - so - so
>> >> 7) ciani ???
>>
>>
>> Don't you know Ciani's recording of the Chopin etudes? Unsurpassed, IMO.
>
> Do you think so? I find them rather pedestrian frankly. Unlike his
> Nocturnes, which are as good as it gets IMO.
>

Oops!

Arguably one of the loudest sets of
Nocturnes ever recorded. Ciani plays
them as if he were teying to sing
Neapolitan canzonete.


dk


Dan Koren

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:40:58 PM1/22/06
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"tomdeacon" <tomde...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1137974595.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


Isn't this largely because the
record labels have decided to
give equal exposure to male
fashion models?

dk


Dan Koren

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:41:50 PM1/22/06
to

Oops! Forgot Ginzburg in the 'likes'.


dk

"Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:43d42206$1...@news.meer.net...

Tony - sidoze

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Jan 22, 2006, 7:59:20 PM1/22/06
to

Perhaps you have the luxury edition of the recording. Mine, on Agora,
sounds bootlegged from the audience, and the best part about it *is*
the singing -- intense and varied with great care over the sound, the
ppp really carries emotion.

John Harrington

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Jan 22, 2006, 8:05:43 PM1/22/06
to
disgusting kook wrote:
<snip>

> Reading what you wrote above one cannot but wonder about your IQ.

Your posting history leaves little doubt about yours.

> Let's try to explain this with a simple example. Let's say you go
> out to dinner and you don't like the food. Do you split hairs and
> try to analyze which part of it you did not like, which was OK,
> which was not, and why? Or do you just conclude you didn't like
> the food? Methinks it is more likely the latter, not the former.

No, I go online and make lists of all the great meals I've had. If
anyone says something favorable about a meal I dislike, I tell them to
get new tastebuds, and then have the gall to claim I never suggested my
opinions were "normative". If I eat a meal that I like better than a
meal I had before, I say the meal I had before tasted like shit, even
if I liked it at the time; then I pretend I can't imagine why anyone
would like that meal I once liked, and I say silly things like the chef
couldn't cook scrambled eggs if someone held a gun to his head. I go
home and sample bits of meals comparing them to each other, one taste
at a time, because that's the way everybody eats, right? I never say
anything specific about what I like or don't like about a meal. I just
say some meals are like eating shit and others are ambrosia. I claim
to reserve the right to say a meal I once thought ambrosia is shit
cooked by a cretin and vice versa I never bretray the slightist
impression that I actually enjoy eating, especially since I seem to
find most food inedible. Between fatuous pronouncements about food, I
recommend the total annihilation of foreign countries and brag about my
luxury cars.


J

John Harrington

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Jan 22, 2006, 8:07:12 PM1/22/06
to
Dan Koren wrote:
<snip>

> I have stated my reasons for liking or disliking various
> pianists many times.

100%, grade-double A bullshit.


J

LaVir...@aol.com

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Jan 22, 2006, 9:27:25 PM1/22/06
to
why fight about pianists/

LaVir...@aol.com

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Jan 22, 2006, 9:33:32 PM1/22/06
to
She just had the wrong papering. Now, if someone had billed her as "A
Pianist who Competes with the Dead",
there might have been more interest.

LaVir...@aol.com

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Jan 22, 2006, 9:36:06 PM1/22/06
to
secoded

The Historian

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Jan 22, 2006, 9:36:26 PM1/22/06
to
WannabeFree wrote:

Mr. Koren,

Could you give examples of recordings you like by pianists on your
Dislike list, and briefly explain why they are the exception? I recall
you praising R. Serkin's Mendelssohn concertos and Brendel in Schubert's
duo piano music.

LaVir...@aol.com

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Jan 22, 2006, 9:37:29 PM1/22/06
to
I like it too

LaVir...@aol.com

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Jan 22, 2006, 9:38:15 PM1/22/06
to
lol

SG

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Jan 22, 2006, 9:40:00 PM1/22/06
to

benjo maso wrote:

> >> 7) ciani ???
>
>
> Don't you know Ciani's recording of the Chopin etudes? Unsurpassed, IMO.

I know Ciani. What I meant with ??? is that I don't know what gave
Andrew the idea that DK would like his playing.

regards,
SG

benjo maso

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Jan 22, 2006, 10:09:06 PM1/22/06
to

"SG" <SGG...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137984000.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

.....and I'm afraid you were right :-(

Benjo Maso


benjo maso

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Jan 22, 2006, 10:10:41 PM1/22/06
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"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137974582.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>

I like his Nocturnes too, in fact, I like almost all of his recordings
(although I prefer his life recording of Debussy to his studio recording).

Benjo Maso


Bob Lombard

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Jan 22, 2006, 10:18:23 PM1/22/06
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"SG" <SGG...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137984000.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Yeah. I think DK's ideal is something like a melding of Pollini with
Mewton-Wood.

bl


benjo maso

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Jan 22, 2006, 10:19:57 PM1/22/06
to

"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137977960....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

I'm afraid the luxury edition (released by DGG) sounds bootlegged as well
and rather ugly (fault of the recording, not Dino Ciani's).

Benjo Maso


benjo maso

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Jan 22, 2006, 10:21:59 PM1/22/06
to

"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137974582.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>


I like his Nocturnes too, but I'm, rather suprised you find his Etudes
pedestrian, which is about the last word coming in my mind.

Benjo Maso


Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Bob Harper

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Jan 23, 2006, 12:26:02 AM1/23/06
to
Dan Koren wrote:
> Oops! Forgot Ginzburg in the 'likes'.
>
>
> dk
(snip)
What about Schepkin? Heard him today, and was pretty impressed.

Bob Harper

Dan Koren

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Jan 23, 2006, 12:39:36 AM1/23/06
to

<LaVir...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1137983849....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> I like it too
>

That by itself is an automatic
disqualification to my ears.

dk

PS. Still waiting for your
Chopin Ballade no. 1 to end
all others...


Dan Koren

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Jan 23, 2006, 12:41:34 AM1/23/06
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"Bob Lombard" <thorste...@vermontel.net> wrote in message
news:11t8ink...@corp.supernews.com...


ROTFL !!!

BTW, I do not have suck silly notions as
"an ideal pianist".


dk


Dan Koren

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Jan 23, 2006, 12:42:41 AM1/23/06
to

<LaVir...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1137983245....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> why fight about pianists/
>


The first intelligent article you posted to r.m.c.r.

dk


Dan Koren

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Jan 23, 2006, 12:44:29 AM1/23/06
to
"WannabeFree" <aqui...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1137976814.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> Where's Pogorelich, the genius ? and Zimerman ?
>


Neither list was supposed to be exhaustive.

Otherwise, I dislike Zimmerman.

Pogo is a little more complicated. I liked
some of his earlier performances, however
the later stuff leaves me cold.

dk


Dan Koren

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Jan 23, 2006, 12:45:33 AM1/23/06
to

"The Historian" <Spam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KiXAf.4008$rH5...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...


Would you terribly mind if I first run to
Borders to cash my coupons before it closes
in another hour?

dk


h...@bigpond.com

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Jan 23, 2006, 1:03:42 AM1/23/06
to
Worse - Rachmaninov :-)
Hugh Roberts

Dan Koren

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Jan 23, 2006, 1:13:38 AM1/23/06
to

"Bob Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zsqdnaN9nuZ29Une...@comcast.com...


> Dan Koren wrote:
>> Oops! Forgot Ginzburg in the 'likes'.
>

> What about Schepkin? Heard him today, and was pretty impressed.
>


Not my cup of tea.

dk


Peter Lemken

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Jan 23, 2006, 1:36:13 AM1/23/06
to
Dan Koren <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Reading what you wrote above one cannot but wonder about your IQ.
>
> Let's try to explain this with a simple example. Let's say you go
> out to dinner and you don't like the food. Do you split hairs and
> try to analyze which part of it you did not like, which was OK,
> which was not, and why? Or do you just conclude you didn't like
> the food? Methinks it is more likely the latter, not the former.

Nope.

I remember having dinner in London with some great people at one of London's
finest restaurants. I had a dish that sounded absolutely fabulous on the
menu, but I simply could not get myself to like it and was mightily
disappointed. There was some kind of spice in it that I simply did not like,
in fact, I found it revolting to my taste. I have tasted this particular
spice before and had the same sensation, so this time I simply wanted to
know what it was in order to avoid it in the future.

It took me a couple of weeks to find out what it was. It turned out to be
fresh cilantro/coriander and up to this day I cannot stand the taste of it
and the associated aftertaste. I simply steer clear of it these days, (which
is rather difficult in Thai restaurants).

However, the 1983 Beychevelle was simply gorgeous, just as the company was
gorgeous.

Thanks again, Dan.

Peter Lemken
Berlin

--
Paul Lincke ist dem Zille sein Milhaud.

(Harry Rowohlt)

andrewg...@gmail.com

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 1:38:44 AM1/23/06
to
> Understand that neither list should be taken as complete, and
> that the fact I like a pianist *statistically* does not imply
> I like every single performance by him/her. Conversely, the
> fact that I dislike a pianist *statistically* does not mean
> I dislike every single one of his/her performances.
>
>
> Are you happy now?
>
>
>
> dk


Why yes indeed.....most kind.

AG

Wiener Sänger

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 1:51:54 AM1/23/06
to
Any opinions on Artur Rubinstein ?

Nick Sun

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 2:47:59 AM1/23/06
to
Here is a list DK posted years ago:
auto-hear/buy list (pianists):

Dag Achatz
Valery Afanassiev
Mark Anderson
Martha Argerich
Simon Barere
Dmitri Bashkirov
Anton Bataglov
Lazar Berman
Michel Beroff
Jorge Bolet
Paolo Bordoni
Yuri Boukov
Michele Campanella
Shura Cherkassky
Dino Ciani
Aldo Ciccolini
Van Cliburn
France Clidat
Arnaldo Cohen
Jean-Philippe Collard
Alfred Cortot
Gyorgy Cziffra
Harry Datimer
Bella Davidovich
Ivan Davis
Nikolai Demidenko
Vasso Devetzi
Marta Deyanova
Mischa Dichter
Francois-Rene Duchable
Yuri Egorov
Jan Ekier
Brigitte Engerer
Christoph Eschenbach
Samuil Feinberg
Vladimir Feltsman
Sergio Fiorentino
Rudolf Firkusny
Edwin Fischer
Yakov Flier
Samson Francois
Nelson Freire
Ignaz Friedman
Andrei Gavrilov
Bruno-Leonardo Gelber
Emil Gilels
Grigori Ginzburg
Ralf Gothoni
Gary Graffman
Helene Grimaud
Maria Grinberg
Friedrich Gulda
Conrad Hansen
Angela Hewitt
Vladimir Horowitz
Myeczislaw Horszowski
Konstantin Igumnov
Jose Iturbi
Byron Janis
Martin Jones
Julius Katchen
Rudolf Kerer
Evgeni Kissin
Zoltan Kocsis
Evgeni Korolev
Alexander Korsantia
Valery Kuleshov
Leonid Kuzmin
Alicia de Larrocha
Elizabeth Leonskaja
Mischa Levitsky
John Lewis
Joseph Lhevinne
Konstantin Lifschitz
Arthur Loesser
Jerome Loewenthal
Alexander Lonquich
Louis Lortie
Jacques Loussier
Nikolai Lugansky
Radu Lupu
Nikita Magaloff
Oleg Maisenberg
Witold Malcuzinski
Alexander Melnikov
Victor Merzhanov
Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli
Ivan Moravec
Olli Mustonen
Yukie Nagai
Yves Nat
Emil Naumov
Heinrich Neuhaus
Minoru Nojima
Lev Oborin
John Ogdon
Cristina Ortiz
Cecile Ousset
Vladimir Ovchninnikov
Teodor Paraskivesko
Vlado Perlemuter
Sergio Perticaroli
Nikolai Petrov
Artur Pizzaro
Mikhail Pletnev
Ivo Pogorelich
Maurizio Pollini
Roland Pontinen
Ilona Prunyi
Alexandre Rabinovich
Matti Raekkalio
Deszo Ranki
Sviatoslav Richter
Robert Riefling
Bernard Ringeissen
Santiago Rodriguez
Pascal Roge
Charles Rosen
Moritz Rosenthal
Muza Rubackyte
Arthur Rubinstein
Mikhail Rudy
Harold Samuel
Artur Schnabel
Vladimir Sofronitsky
Grigori Sokolov
Gonzalo Soriano
Roberto Szidon
Gabriel Tacchino
Klaudius Tanski
Anatol Ugorsky
Vladimir Viardo
Elisso Virsaladze
Andre Watts
Alexis Weissenberg
Earl Wild
Roger Woodward
Maria Yudina
Yakov Zak
Juana Zayas
Igor Zhukov


dropped from the list:

Dmitri Alexeev
Geza Anda
Igor Ardasev
Claudio Arrau
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Stefan Askenase
Edward Auer
Emanuel Ax
Gina Bachauer
Wilhelm Backhaus
Paul Badura-Skoda
Daniel Barenboim
Tzimon Barto
Harold Bauer
Idil Biret
Stephen Bishop Kovacevich
Michel Block
Alexander Brailowsky
Alfred Brendel
John Browning
Frederic Chiu
Clifford Curzon
Jorg Demus
Philippe Entremont
Morton Estrin
Annie Fischer
Leon Fleisher
Andor Foldes
Malcolm Frager
Claude Frank
Walter Gieseking
Richard Goode
Glenn Gould
Percy Grainger
Steve de Groote
Ingrid Haebler
Adam Harasiewicz
Clara Haskil
Walter Hautzig
Eric Heidsieck
Myra Hess
Ian Hobson
Lorin Hollander
Leslie Howard
Bruce Hungerford
Eugene Istomin
Jeno Jando
Terence Judd
Kyoko Kabe
Cyprien Katsaris
Constance Keene
Wilhelm Kempff
Anatole Kitain
Lili Kraus
Wanda Landowska
Ruth Laredo
Noel Lee
Cecile Licad
John Lill
Seymour Lipkin
Eugene List
Marguerite Long
Moura Lympany
Joao Carlos Martins
Artur Moreira Lima
Stanislav Neuhaus
Elly Ney
Tatiana Nikolaieva
Guiomar Novaes
Garrick Ohlsson
Gerhard Oppitz
sisters Pekinel
Leonard Pennario
Murray Perahia
Egon Petri
Maria-Joao Pires
Jean-Bernard Pommier
Michael Ponti
Lev Pouishnov
Menahem Pressler
Rosita Renard
Jerome Rose
Carol Rosenberger
Girogy Sandor
Vasili Sapelnikov
Emil von Sauer
Andras Schiff
Karl-Ulrich Schnabel
Andre-Michel Schub
Peter Serkin
Setrak
Dmitri Sgouros
Russell Sherman
Leonard Shure
Abbey Simon
Ronald Smith
Solomon
Alexei Sultanov
Martino Tirimo
Fou Ts'ong
Rosalyn Tureck
Mitsuko Uchida
Imre Ungar
Beveridge Webster
Friedrich Wuehrer
Christian Zacharias
Carlo Zecchi
Dieter Zechlin
Krystian Zimmermann

I saved this not for the likes or dislikes, but for a reminder to me
that there are plenty pianists I haven't heard yet. :-)

Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 2:55:40 AM1/23/06
to
"Peter Lemken" <spam.f...@buerotiger.de> wrote in message
news:43jbqtF...@individual.net...

> Dan Koren <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Reading what you wrote above one cannot but wonder about your IQ.
>>
>> Let's try to explain this with a simple example. Let's say you go
>> out to dinner and you don't like the food. Do you split hairs and
>> try to analyze which part of it you did not like, which was OK,
>> which was not, and why? Or do you just conclude you didn't like
>> the food? Methinks it is more likely the latter, not the former.
>
> Nope.
>
> I remember having dinner in London with some great people at one of
> London's
> finest restaurants. I had a dish that sounded absolutely fabulous on the
> menu, but I simply could not get myself to like it and was mightily
> disappointed. There was some kind of spice in it that I simply did not
> like,
> in fact, I found it revolting to my taste. I have tasted this particular
> spice before and had the same sensation, so this time I simply wanted to
> know what it was in order to avoid it in the future.
>
> It took me a couple of weeks to find out what it was. It turned out to be
> fresh cilantro/coriander and up to this day I cannot stand the taste of it
> and the associated aftertaste. I simply steer clear of it these days,
> (which
> is rather difficult in Thai restaurants).
>


You're thinking too much about food.

dk


Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 2:56:35 AM1/23/06
to

"Wiener Sänger" <really...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137999114.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


>
> Any opinions on Artur Rubinstein ?
>


Artur Rubinstein is above my opinion.

dk


Wiener Sänger

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 3:32:22 AM1/23/06
to

Dan Koren wrote:

> Artur Rubinstein is above my opinion.
>
>
>
> dk

He's always been my absolute favourite pianist. There is something
transcendental about his playing, on record. I consider it a loss that
I was born too late to have ever had the privilege of hearing him live,
and have always marvelled at his technique (though deteriorating) so
late in life.

Message has been deleted

Tony - sidoze

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 4:21:12 AM1/23/06
to

Dan Koren wrote:
> 2) Likes:
> Afanassiev
> dk

I'm interested to know which recordings you like by this charlatan. His
Chopin Mazurkas are certainly the worst I've ever heard, and his last 3
Beethoven sonatas--live in Tokyo--are as flat as a pancake.

Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 4:32:26 AM1/23/06
to

"Wiener Sänger" <really...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1138005142.2...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


>
> Dan Koren wrote:
>
>> Artur Rubinstein is above my opinion.
>

> He's always been my absolute favourite pianist. There is something
> transcendental about his playing, on record. I consider it a loss that
> I was born too late to have ever had the privilege of hearing him live,
> and have always marvelled at his technique (though deteriorating) so
> late in life.
>


I heard Rubinstein live a few times.

Trust me, technique (as impressive
as it was) was really the smallest
ingredient of his musical persona.

The first time I heard him was in
1964, when he was 78, in a recital
that lasted over 3 hours and was
chock full with big works. His
stamina was beyond imagination.

There were a coupld of famous
pianists sitting not too far
from me, and I could see their
faces go white in disbelief....

dk


Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 4:39:41 AM1/23/06
to

Thanks for keeping this around.

May I point out however that "auto-hear/buy" equates to
"interesting", or "still in evaluation". It absolutely
does not equates with like or dislike.

Also, the list has shrunk quite a bit, partly because
of lack of time to listen, partly because the birth
rate of great pianists has not been that high lately,
and partly because my buying power has diminished as
a result of the many speeding tickets.... 8-((

Note that a number of artists have dropped from the
list. These include: Anderson, Cortot, Duchable,
Grimaud, Fischer, Gavrilov, Hewitt, Lortie,
Magaloff, Zayas, and many many others.

dk


"Nick Sun" <xiao...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:1138002479.6...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Raymond Hall

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 5:06:21 AM1/23/06
to
"Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:43d4a460$1...@news.meer.net...

>
>
> Thanks for keeping this around.
>
> May I point out however that "auto-hear/buy" equates to
> "interesting", or "still in evaluation". It absolutely
> does not equates with like or dislike.
>
> Also, the list has shrunk quite a bit, partly because
> of lack of time to listen, partly because the birth
> rate of great pianists has not been that high lately,
> and partly because my buying power has diminished as
> a result of the many speeding tickets.... 8-((

Been caught a tad over 55mph then? Jeezuz, a real speedster. All of Europe
will be impressed.


> Note that a number of artists have dropped from the
> list. These include: Anderson, Cortot, Duchable,
> Grimaud, Fischer, Gavrilov, Hewitt, Lortie,
> Magaloff, Zayas, and many many others.

Wolfwoman should not have been dropped, and Elton John and Andre Previn
added. Glad to see you've still kept Sanchez. Still an exceptional Iberia,
and I have to thank you for that.

Ray H
Taree


Peter Lemken

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 5:58:01 AM1/23/06
to

I can afford to.

Tony - sidoze

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:18:40 AM1/23/06
to


Bliss to be retired, evidently.

"One of London's finest restaurants" made me laugh. The best ones I've
eaten at are strictly private -- such as in private casinos and the
like. Anything you can actually walk into is usually not better than
British, i.e. bad.

Peter Lemken

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:46:08 AM1/23/06
to
Tony - sidoze <sid...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "One of London's finest restaurants" made me laugh. The best ones I've
> eaten at are strictly private -- such as in private casinos and the
> like. Anything you can actually walk into is usually not better than
> British, i.e. bad.

They serve 1983 Beychevelle there? Can't be that bad.

Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:53:43 AM1/23/06
to
"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138015120.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> "One of London's finest restaurants" made me laugh.

According to reviews published around that time (1997).

It was one of Gordon Ramsey's eateries that started to
go downhill as a result of quarrels with his business
partners. It wasn't perfect, mind you, just OK. The
wine was better than the food ;-)

> The best ones I've eaten at are strictly private --
> such as in private casinos and the like.

Therefore the term 'restaurant' does not really apply.

> Anything you can actually walk into is usually not
> better than British, i.e. bad.

You mean, one must parachute through the chimney or
be brought in on a stretcher?


dk


tomdeacon

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 7:01:39 AM1/23/06
to

O wrote:
> In article <1137974612....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> tomdeacon <tomde...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > Sam wrote:
> > > On 22 Jan 2006 15:16:51 -0800, abac...@att.net wrote:
> > >
> > > >how can you take dk seriously ( or any one else) who sincerely thinks
> > > >that Sanchez was a great pianist......at best, pure nonsense
> > > >
> > > >AB
> > >
> > > I haven't tried Sanchez, but when I had a chance to pick up Nadia
> > > Cole's Ravel, Bartok, Liszt disc for $3 recently, I did and am much
> > > happier as a result. All because of Dan.
> >
> > While from your personal standpoint it is nice to have picked up Ms.
> > Cole's disc for the paltry sum of three bucks, it would have been much
> > better for the career of Ms. Cole and indeed for the likelihood that
> > you would ever discover more CDs of this fine Canadian pianist if you
> > had purchased the disc when it first appeared at Top Price, before
> > Decca/DG (her first CD appeared originally on the DG label in Canada,
> > causing utter consternation in the President of DG, who thought his
> > company deserved better pianists, like Lang Lang!!!) had decided to
> > jetison her for "poor sales".
>
> It would be even better for the gratification of Ms. Cole to just send
> her the ($16.98 - $3.00) $13.98. If you sent it to Decca/DG, she
> would never have known.

An idiotic remark, Owen.

You show how little you know about royalties and royalty statements.

TD

tomdeacon

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 7:09:00 AM1/23/06
to

Tony - sidoze wrote:

> "One of London's finest restaurants" made me laugh. The best ones I've
> eaten at are strictly private -- such as in private casinos and the
> like. Anything you can actually walk into is usually not better than
> British, i.e. bad.

So, I see that your ignorance is not limited to musical matters.

TD

Tony - sidoze

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 7:25:56 AM1/23/06
to

Which of us lives here, Tom?

Tony - sidoze

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 7:36:22 AM1/23/06
to

Dan Koren wrote:
> "Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1138015120.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Anything you can actually walk into is usually not
> > better than British, i.e. bad.
>
> You mean, one must parachute through the chimney or
> be brought in on a stretcher?
>
>
> dk

I tend to think that you must be brought *out* on a stretcher ;)

Tony - sidoze

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 7:37:08 AM1/23/06
to

Perhaps they do, perhaps they don't. I wouldn't know. I go for the food
if I go at all.

Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 8:46:03 AM1/23/06
to
"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138019156.3...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Which of us lives here, Tom?
>


The discussion was about (or turned
to) what you eat, not where you live!


dk


Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 8:46:32 AM1/23/06
to
"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138019782....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> Dan Koren wrote:
>> "Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1138015120.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > Anything you can actually walk into is usually not
>> > better than British, i.e. bad.
>>
>> You mean, one must parachute through the chimney or
>> be brought in on a stretcher?
>
> I tend to think that you must be brought *out* on a stretcher ;)
>

Sorry, I should have written "carried in".


dk


Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 8:48:27 AM1/23/06
to
"Raymond Hall" <rayt...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:xU1Bf.224935$V7.8...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> "Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:43d4a460$1...@news.meer.net...
>>
>>
>> Thanks for keeping this around.
>>
>> May I point out however that "auto-hear/buy" equates to
>> "interesting", or "still in evaluation". It absolutely
>> does not equates with like or dislike.
>>
>> Also, the list has shrunk quite a bit, partly because
>> of lack of time to listen, partly because the birth
>> rate of great pianists has not been that high lately,
>> and partly because my buying power has diminished as
>> a result of the many speeding tickets.... 8-((
>
> Been caught a tad over 55mph then? Jeezuz, a real speedster. All of Europe
> will be impressed.
>


Except for traffic conditions,
I never drive below 90 mph.

dk


Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 8:50:04 AM1/23/06
to
"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138008072.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

>
> Dan Koren wrote:
>> 2) Likes:
>> Afanassiev
>
> I'm interested to know which recordings you like by
> this charlatan. His Chopin Mazurkas are certainly
> the worst I've ever heard, and his last 3 Beethoven
> sonatas--live in Tokyo--are as flat as a pancake.
>


Perhaps, but his Schubert D960 on ECM and his
Pictures (on Denon?) wash all his other sins.

dk


Tony - sidoze

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 9:07:41 AM1/23/06
to

Indeed, and I am all for that. I only want to curb Mr. Deacon's
arrogance in the matter of shouting "ignorance" from his village across
the pond.

Bob Lombard

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 9:37:23 AM1/23/06
to

"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138015120.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> "One of London's finest restaurants" made me laugh. The best ones I've
> eaten at are strictly private -- such as in private casinos and the
> like. Anything you can actually walk into is usually not better than
> British, i.e. bad.

The few english/British (?) restaurants I've eaten in, all in the
Birmingham area, were, ah, OK. The important thing for 'provincial'
Americans to understand is that "pub grub" is vastly superiorwhat we are
used to getting in a U.S. "bar & grill": pickled kielbasa chunks, boiled
eggs pickled in the vinegar left from the kielbasa, "Slim Jims"..., and
what the bartender calls "the piece de resistance", a raw egg in your
beer.

bl


Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 9:41:48 AM1/23/06
to
"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138025261.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> Dan Koren wrote:
>> "Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1138019156.3...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > tomdeacon wrote:
>> >> Tony - sidoze wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "One of London's finest restaurants" made me laugh. The best ones
>> >> > I've
>> >> > eaten at are strictly private -- such as in private casinos and the
>> >> > like. Anything you can actually walk into is usually not better than
>> >> > British, i.e. bad.
>> >>
>> >> So, I see that your ignorance is not limited to musical matters.
>> >
>> > Which of us lives here, Tom?
>>
>> The discussion was about (or turned
>> to) what you eat, not where you live!
>
> Indeed, and I am all for that. I only want to curb Mr. Deacon's
> arrogance in the matter of shouting "ignorance" from his village across
> the pond.
>

Village? What village?!?

Seeleys Bay is hardly a hamlet.

Only the moose stop there, and only to pee.

dk


Tony - sidoze

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 10:01:01 AM1/23/06
to

Two I don't know still. I have a Live in Newport set which includes him
playing the final two Pictures live--huge sound & strength--but even
there he seems incapable of anything approaching subtlety, especially
in terms of rhythm.

James Kahn

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 10:13:54 AM1/23/06
to
In <43d4...@news.meer.net> "Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> writes:
>"Wiener Sanger" <really...@gmail.com> wrote in message

I saw him in 1976 when he was 90. He played a full program
that included the "Waldstein Sonata", a Chopin scherzo, several
Chopin etudes, etc. He played a couple of encores, and when
he came out again, he kind of raised his hands in the air as
if to say "I can't do any more!" Of course there were some
wrong notes, but there was still a lot of energy and spirit
to his performance.
--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn

Message has been deleted

Bob Harper

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 10:34:35 AM1/23/06
to
Peter Lemken wrote:
> Dan Koren <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Reading what you wrote above one cannot but wonder about your IQ.
>>
>>Let's try to explain this with a simple example. Let's say you go
>>out to dinner and you don't like the food. Do you split hairs and
>>try to analyze which part of it you did not like, which was OK,
>>which was not, and why? Or do you just conclude you didn't like
>>the food? Methinks it is more likely the latter, not the former.
>
>
> Nope.
>
> I remember having dinner in London with some great people at one of London's
> finest restaurants. I had a dish that sounded absolutely fabulous on the
> menu, but I simply could not get myself to like it and was mightily
> disappointed. There was some kind of spice in it that I simply did not like,
> in fact, I found it revolting to my taste. I have tasted this particular
> spice before and had the same sensation, so this time I simply wanted to
> know what it was in order to avoid it in the future.
>
> It took me a couple of weeks to find out what it was. It turned out to be
> fresh cilantro/coriander and up to this day I cannot stand the taste of it
> and the associated aftertaste. I simply steer clear of it these days, (which
> is rather difficult in Thai restaurants).
>
> However, the 1983 Beychevelle was simply gorgeous, just as the company was
> gorgeous.
>
> Thanks again, Dan.
>
> Peter Lemken
> Berlin
>
Funny how 'controversial' cilantro is. I know people who have your
reaction, but for me (and my wife), it is the critical ingredient in our
hot and sour soup recipe. Same thing with a Mexican soup we enjoy. De
gustibus, I guess.

Bob Harper

P.S. I can imagine the Beychevelle was excellent, but I can't imagine it
with cilantro.

Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 10:32:40 AM1/23/06
to
"Bob Lombard" <thorste...@vermontel.net> wrote in message
news:11t9qgn...@corp.supernews.com...

>
> "Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1138015120.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> "One of London's finest restaurants" made me laugh. The best ones I've
>> eaten at are strictly private -- such as in private casinos and the
>> like. Anything you can actually walk into is usually not better than
>> British, i.e. bad.
>
> The few english/British (?) restaurants I've eaten in, all in the
> Birmingham area, were, ah, OK. The important thing for 'provincial'
> Americans to understand is that "pub grub" is vastly superior what we are
> used to getting in a U.S. "bar & grill": pickled kielbasa chunks, boiled
> eggs pickled in the vinegar left from the kielbasa, "Slim Jims"..., and
> what the bartender calls "the piece de resistance", a raw egg in your
> beer.
>


Bob, where do you live?

dk


Dan Koren

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 10:34:12 AM1/23/06
to
"Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138027265.2...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> Dan Koren wrote:
>> "Tony - sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1138008072.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Dan Koren wrote:
>> >> 2) Likes:
>> >> Afanassiev
>> >
>> > I'm interested to know which recordings you like by
>> > this charlatan. His Chopin Mazurkas are certainly
>> > the worst I've ever heard, and his last 3 Beethoven
>> > sonatas--live in Tokyo--are as flat as a pancake.
>>
>> Perhaps, but his Schubert D960 on ECM and his
>> Pictures (on Denon?) wash all his other sins.
>
> Two I don't know still. I have a Live in Newport set which includes him
> playing the final two Pictures live--huge sound & strength--but even
> there he seems incapable of anything approaching subtlety, especially
> in terms of rhythm.
>

You can always get your daily dose of
subtlety from another pianist. As they
say: division of labour ;-)

dk


John Thomas

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Jan 23, 2006, 11:16:39 AM1/23/06
to
In article <1138005142.2...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Wiener Sänger" <really...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dan Koren wrote:
>
> > Artur Rubinstein is above my opinion.
> >
> >
> >

> > dk


>
> He's always been my absolute favourite pianist. There is something
> transcendental about his playing, on record. I consider it a loss that
> I was born too late to have ever had the privilege of hearing him live,
> and have always marvelled at his technique (though deteriorating) so
> late in life.

I've stopped listening to his stereo recordings completely. In his
RCA set the good stuff ends IIRC at #26. Open for flaming ;-)

--
Regards,
John Thomas

John Thomas

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:20:24 AM1/23/06
to
In article <zt-dnYwYCeg...@comcast.com>,
Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Funny how 'controversial' cilantro is. I know people who have your
> reaction, but for me (and my wife), it is the critical ingredient in our
> hot and sour soup recipe. Same thing with a Mexican soup we enjoy. De
> gustibus, I guess.

Dan Koren is the cilantro of music criticism.

Steve Molino

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:21:21 AM1/23/06
to
"John Thomas" <abras...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:abrasax365-740A9...@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...

>
> I've stopped listening to his stereo recordings completely. In his
> RCA set the good stuff ends IIRC at #26. Open for flaming ;-)

No flames, but I think you are being a bit too dogmatic about that. I think
there are several discs from later that are worth it, specially his Carnegie
Hall highlights, Moscow concert, Chopin Ballades, among others. With a
great artist like Rubinstein, you can rarely put a stake in the ground and
say "never beyond this point".


Tony - sidoze

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:33:17 AM1/23/06
to

Dan Koren wrote:
> 1) Dislikes:
>Gavrilov,
> dk

On a Russian classical music board I read that he's currently playing
the entire Chopin Nocturnes in recital. I'm in agreement with you about
him overall; all the same, I wouldn't mind hearing those :)

tag gallagher

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:39:17 AM1/23/06
to

Bob Harper wrote:

> Funny how 'controversial' cilantro is. I know people who have your
> reaction, but for me (and my wife), it is the critical ingredient in our
> hot and sour soup recipe. Same thing with a Mexican soup we enjoy. De
> gustibus, I guess.


Can you post the recipes, please?

John Harrington

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 11:42:29 AM1/23/06
to

It's typical of the sociopath to have no regard for human life. I hope
you hit a tree at that speed and improve the world.


J

Bob Lombard

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Jan 23, 2006, 11:50:28 AM1/23/06
to

"Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:43d4f719$1...@news.meer.net...

> "Bob Lombard" <thorste...@vermontel.net> wrote in message
> news:11t9qgn...@corp.supernews.com...

>> The few english/British (?) restaurants I've eaten in, all in the

>> Birmingham area, were, ah, OK. The important thing for 'provincial'
>> Americans to understand is that "pub grub" is vastly superior what we
>> are used to getting in a U.S. "bar & grill": pickled kielbasa chunks,
>> boiled eggs pickled in the vinegar left from the kielbasa, "Slim
>> Jims"..., and what the bartender calls "the piece de resistance", a
>> raw egg in your beer.
>>
>
>
> Bob, where do you live?
>
>
>
> dk

LOL. During my Air Force days I 'hit' B&G's in the Midwest and New
England. Live in Vermont now, but don't frequent bars - the DUI level is
too low now.

bl


John Thomas

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 12:38:47 PM1/23/06
to
In article <1138034549.2...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"John Harrington" <bear...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's typical of the sociopath to have no regard for human life. I hope
> you hit a tree at that speed and improve the world.

Sociopath is as sociopath posts.

--
Regards,
John Thomas

SG

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 1:49:35 PM1/23/06
to

> Dan Koren is the cilantro of music criticism.

A remark full of a-cumin.

regards,
SG

Steve Emerson

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 2:02:21 PM1/23/06
to
In article <4eef1$43d41bc7$3ec20b43$16...@news.chello.nl>,
"benjo maso" <benjo...@chello.nl> wrote:

>
> Don't you know Ciani's recording of the Chopin etudes? Unsurpassed, IMO.

Wow, you surprise me. I didn't think the Op 10 was up to much. I'll do
some more listening.

SE.

Steve Emerson

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 2:36:47 PM1/23/06
to
In article <4027c$43d44b5c$3ec20b43$25...@news.chello.nl>,
"benjo maso" <benjo...@chello.nl> wrote:

> > Perhaps you have the luxury edition of the recording. Mine, on Agora,
> > sounds bootlegged from the audience, and the best part about it *is*
> > the singing -- intense and varied with great care over the sound, the
> > ppp really carries emotion.
>
> I'm afraid the luxury edition (released by DGG) sounds bootlegged as well
> and rather ugly (fault of the recording, not Dino Ciani's).


Nic Hodges had the idea they were different performances. Nic says:

"By a long way my favourite sets are
the two live cycles of Dino Ciani, on Agora and DG Italia. The latter is
cheaper, with slightly better performances but worse sound."

SE.

John Harrington

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 2:47:59 PM1/23/06
to

dk has posted that he wishes whole nations annihilated. Now he tells
us he drives 90 mph in utter disregard of the fact that he is greatly
increasing his chances of killing someone. It doesn't take a sociopath
to assert the world would be better off without such people and to hope
that one day it is.


J

bpnjensen

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 3:03:18 PM1/23/06
to
>dk has posted that he wishes whole nations annihilated. Now he tells
us he drives 90 mph in utter disregard of the fact that he is greatly
increasing his chances of killing someone. It doesn't take a sociopath

to assert the world would be better off without such people and to hope

that one day it is. <

That's not *exactly* what I read in his post - it sounds to me like he
spends most of his time at typical speeds due to traffic
considerations. He just said it in a way designed to make people speak
before they think ;-). Frankly, I appreciate the iconoclasm he brings.

For what it's worth, when traffic is not in the way (like across the
Nevada desert on Interstate 80), my own average speed occasionally hits
the 90 mph mark. Other cars *still* pass me up.

Bruce Jensen

Simon Roberts

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 3:20:03 PM1/23/06
to
In article <1138015120.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Tony -
sidoze says...

>"One of London's finest restaurants" made me laugh. The best ones I've
>eaten at are strictly private -- such as in private casinos and the
>like. Anything you can actually walk into is usually not better than
>British, i.e. bad.

Do you think that (say) Tamarind and Le Caprice are "bad"?

Simon

SG

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 4:24:26 PM1/23/06
to

Based on a rather limited experience and therefore rushed
generalisation, the quality of food in present England is perhaps the
most "misunderestimated" everywhere in Europe.

regards,
SG

benjo maso

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 5:42:01 PM1/23/06
to

"Steve Emerson" <eme...@nospamsonic.net> wrote in message
news:emersn-FA4869....@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...


Yes, he is right: they are different performances. On DG it was recorded 10
december 1971 in Rome, on Agora october 1973 in Turin. But although the Rome
recording was released by DG, it's still sounds bootlegged with loud
coughs, etc.

Benjo Maso


John Harrington

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:01:24 PM1/23/06
to
bpnjensen wrote:
> >dk has posted that he wishes whole nations annihilated. Now he tells
> us he drives 90 mph in utter disregard of the fact that he is greatly
> increasing his chances of killing someone. It doesn't take a sociopath
>
> to assert the world would be better off without such people and to hope
>
> that one day it is. <
>
> That's not *exactly* what I read in his post -

I don't know what you "exactly" read in his post, but that's exactly
what it said. That he is sometimes prevented from going 90 mph is
irrelevant to the point I made. Speeding is a disgustingly selfish and
thoughtless act. It basically says your right to make it to your
destination quicker is worth risking your life, the lives of your
passengers, and the lives of those around you. I don't care how common
it is. That doesn't change the fact that it is evil.


J

Steve Emerson

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:16:04 PM1/23/06
to
In article <1138033997....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,

Smiley indeed. These might be the very last things I'd want to hear him
play--which is to say, bottom of a long list.

Nothing the matter with his Handel and Bach though.

SE.

tomdeacon

unread,
Jan 23, 2006, 6:40:32 PM1/23/06
to

John Harrington wrote:

> I don't know what you "exactly" read in his post, but that's exactly
> what it said. That he is sometimes prevented from going 90 mph is
> irrelevant to the point I made. Speeding is a disgustingly selfish and
> thoughtless act. It basically says your right to make it to your
> destination quicker is worth risking your life, the lives of your
> passengers, and the lives of those around you. I don't care how common
> it is. That doesn't change the fact that it is evil.

Not, however, as evil as some of his comments on fine musicians such as
Dinu Lipatti, Wilhelm Backhaus, Walter Gieseking, Murray Perahia, Clara
Haskil, etc., etc.

In order to propagate such remarks it takes a very special form of
nastiness. Hell will welcome him with open arms, I feel sure.

TD

John Thomas

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Jan 23, 2006, 6:46:59 PM1/23/06
to
May Bruce and Dan meet head-on and the world be kept safe for Democracy.

Frank Berger

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Jan 23, 2006, 7:00:06 PM1/23/06
to

"John Harrington" <bear...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138057284.5...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Your hyperbole knows no bounds.


Dan Koren

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Jan 23, 2006, 7:24:56 PM1/23/06
to

"Steve Emerson" <eme...@nospamsonic.net> wrote in message

news:emersn-0EEB79....@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...


The biggest problem with Gavrilov is that he never
really wanted to be a pianist (or so he claims),
and it shows.

Other than that, his Scriabin op. 42/5 must be
heard to be disbelieved.

dk


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