Jimmy Page
Derrick Rowlandson
I see that Noteworthy lists a "new" CD called James Patrick Page: Session Man
What might be on this disk, I know about his appearance on:
Donovan's Hurdy Gurdy Man
a Stones tune
a Who tune
I guess this would be stuff from early in his career, and not include
any stuff with Roy Harper?
Anyone care to post A summary of this disk?
thanks
Derrick
--
Martin Schwenke
>I see that Noteworthy lists a "new" CD called James Patrick Page: Session Man
>What might be on this disk, I know about his appearance on:
>[...]
>a Who tune
I haven't seen this disk BUT...
Jimmy Page played LOTS of guitar on the Who's last studio album "It's
Hard". Not many people mention this album; it's a return to the Who of
the early-mid '70's ("By Numbers", "Next", "Who are you")... different
to "Face Dances". Some of the songs are obviously recorded "live" (in
the studio)... there's this unbelievable energy.
Page plays some really good guitar on this album. Listen to "Eminence
Front", with Page playing what sounds like the only guitar, and Townshend
playing keyboards... I think...
Anyone got any more info on this album... Who played what? Was is done
live in the studio? How did it all come about?
Thanks,
peace & happiness,
martin
--
:: Martin Schwenke :::::::::::: mar...@syacus.acus :::::::::: +61 2 887 6791 ::
) _ _ peace & happiness _ ) _ __ _ ) Australian Centre )
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Ron Crandall
>
>der...@cs.athabascau.ca (Derrick Rowlandson) writes:
>
>>I see that Noteworthy lists a "new" CD called James Patrick Page: Session Man
>
>>What might be on this disk, I know about his appearance on:
>>[...]
>>a Who tune
>
>I haven't seen this disk BUT...
>
>Jimmy Page played LOTS of guitar on the Who's last studio album "It's
>Hard". Not many people mention this album; it's a return to the Who of
I seriously doubt that Jimmy Page played on anything from It's Hard.
Almost all of Page's session work was done in the sixties.
The Who song he played on was "I Can't Explain," which was recorded
17 years earlier. He was a favorite of Shel Talmy, who was an early
manager of both the Who and the Kinks. Townshend (and Dave Davies)
were both a little shakey playing lead in those early days. Although
Talmy brought in Page to play lead on "I Can't Explain," Townshend
actually played lead and Page played rhythm. I think Page played
lead on "You Really Got Me" for the Kinks, and possibly on "All
the Day and All of the Night."
Page really wasn't looking for session work after the Yardbirds
(who could have afforded him?).
Ron Crandall
r...@psuvm.psu.edu
John M. Relph
>Almost all of Page's session work was done in the sixties.
>(who could have afforded him?).
Page played loads of guitar including some good lead work on Roy
Harper's album _What Happened to Jugula?_ (I may have the title a
little wrong). But since Zep did a tribute of sorts to Roy Harper
(and he seems to be highly-regarded by British musicians in general) I
would guess that Harper probably didn't have to pay Page much.
-- John
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If you are interested in joining an XTC mailing list,
drop a line to chalkhill...@presto.ig.com.
Brent Byer
:In article <9...@syacus.acus.oz>, mar...@syacus.acus.oz (Martin Schwenke) says:
::
::Jimmy Page played LOTS of guitar on the Who's last studio album "It's
::Hard". Not many people mention this album; it's a return to the Who of
:
:I seriously doubt that Jimmy Page played on anything from It's Hard.
:Almost all of Page's session work was done in the sixties.
Well, he could be playing [ arguing :-) ] in his spare time.
Recall that Page played on a couple of Roy Harper's albums (old,
but still post-Yardbirds). You've got friends, don't you? :-)
:The Who song he played on was "I Can't Explain," which was recorded
:17 years earlier. He was a favorite of Shel Talmy, who was an early
:manager of both the Who and the Kinks. ...
Come on, now, Mr. Talmy, *Speak up*. ( "I saw you..." ) They do let
you do more than think in that tank, don't they?
Please fill us in on some of this old Who lore. If anonymity is
your wont, e-mail to me, and I'll post it. Thanks.
Brent Byer ( b...@wjh12.harvard.edu )
Larry Spence
>der...@cs.athabascau.ca (Derrick Rowlandson) writes:
>
>Jimmy Page played LOTS of guitar on the Who's last studio album "It's
>Hard". Not many people mention this album; it's a return to the Who of
>the early-mid '70's ("By Numbers", "Next", "Who are you")... different
>to "Face Dances". Some of the songs are obviously recorded "live" (in
>the studio)... there's this unbelievable energy.
>
>Page plays some really good guitar on this album. Listen to "Eminence
>Front", with Page playing what sounds like the only guitar
Nope. There's a video for "Eminence Front" that was done at a soundcheck.
The video is actually _live_, not synched (!). Anyway, Pete plays in the
exact same style as the licks on the record, just slightly different fills.
I was really impressed; the live-soundcheck guitar was arguably as good as
the studio stuff, maybe better in places! But unless Pete was doing a perfect
copy of Page doing a perfect copy of Pete, I don't think Page was involved.
--
Larry Spence
larry@csccat
...{texbell,texsun}!csccat!larry
Internet: la...@csccat.lonestar.org
ele...@canterbury.ac.nz
> Jimmy Page played LOTS of guitar on the Who's last studio album "It's
> Hard". Not many people mention this album; it's a return to the Who of
> the early-mid '70's ("By Numbers", "Next", "Who are you")... different
> to "Face Dances". Some of the songs are obviously recorded "live" (in
> the studio)... there's this unbelievable energy.
>
> Page plays some really good guitar on this album. Listen to "Eminence
> Front", with Page playing what sounds like the only guitar, and Townshend
> playing keyboards... I think...
>
> Anyone got any more info on this album... Who played what? Was is done
> live in the studio? How did it all come about?
>
> Thanks,
>
> peace & happiness,
> martin
> --
> :: Martin Schwenke :::::::::::: mar...@syacus.acus :::::::::: +61 2 887 6791 ::
> ) _ _ peace & happiness _ ) _ __ _ ) Australian Centre )
> / / / / __ _ _/ o _ ( ' / /_| / / / ( ' / o for /
> ( / / ( (_( / ' ( ( / > `_) ( / |(__ (__( `_) ( UNISYS Software (
I used to flat with someone Who had most of The Who's albums. He regarded "It's
Hard" as not one of their better albums... I tended to agree with him, although
I thought the song "Athena" was rather good.
--
*********************************************************
Chris Kaiser
Postgrad - Elec Eng Dept
Canterbury University
Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
E.MAIL: c.ka...@elec.canterbury.ac.nz
*********************************************************
"When you're fresh out of lawyers
You don't know how good it's gonna feel"
- Al Stewart, 1988
*********************************************************
Martin Schwenke
>In article <9...@syacus.acus.oz>, mar...@syacus.acus.oz (Martin Schwenke) says:
>>Jimmy Page played LOTS of guitar on the Who's last studio album "It's
>>Hard". Not many people mention this album; it's a return to the Who of
>I seriously doubt that Jimmy Page played on anything from It's Hard.
Sorry, my hearing must be going. Jimmy Page has one of the most distinct
guitar tones around. He plays on about half of the about 10 songs on the
album. I once read a "Guitar Player" or "Guitar World" interview with
Page with discussed this stuff in a bit of detail. I'll dredge it up...
>Almost all of Page's session work was done in the sixties.
Yes. Page did a lot of session work in the sixties. This was when he was
a renowned session man, who could play on anything. He actually played
on everything. <insert smiley>
Since then he hasn't stopped playing:
Zeppelin (obviously)
Honeydrippers (with Plant, Beck and some other dude)
Firm (with Paul Rodgers and those other guys who were very good)
Movie sountracks (Death Wish II, and others, I think)
Willie & the Poor Boys (with Paul Rodgers, and some other dudes)
Who (It's Hard)
These are the ones (except for DWII) which I have in my collection.
These are all '80's... there are others. Hasn't he been busy? I'll
post a more complete list from my "Rock Record" book.
>actually played lead and Page played rhythm. I think Page played
>lead on "You Really Got Me" for the Kinks, and possibly on "All
>the Day and All of the Night."
The award for "Most Argued Over Recording Ever" goes to "You Really Got
Me". Davies claims that it's his solo. He has never reproduced
anything resembling it. Page says it's his... it almost sounds like
him. It may be his ability to sound like other people which stops it
sounding exactly like himself. Jon Lord, of Deep Purple fame, backs up
Page, 'cos he says he was there, playing keyboards. The Kinks guys deny
this. I read an interview with Jeff Beck discussing this, and he claimed
to have been there as well... but that may have been "tongue in cheek".
It's a good argument... but who can believe the guy who put his name to
things like:
The Hunter (used for a whole section of the last song on LZ1)
Whole Lotta Love
The Lemon Song
Bring it on Home
The Rictchie Valens song where "Mrs Valens" gets 1/5 of a credit
Hot Dog
>Page really wasn't looking for session work after the Yardbirds
>(who could have afforded him?).
Maybe he just likes to play guitar?
>Ron Crandall
>r...@psuvm.psu.edu
Kurt Finchum
>
>>actually played lead and Page played rhythm. I think Page played
>>lead on "You Really Got Me" for the Kinks, and possibly on "All
>>the Day and All of the Night."
>
>The award for "Most Argued Over Recording Ever" goes to "You Really Got
>Me". Davies claims that it's his solo. He has never reproduced
>anything resembling it. Page says it's his... it almost sounds like
>him. It may be his ability to sound like other people which stops it
>sounding exactly like himself. Jon Lord, of Deep Purple fame, backs up
>Page, 'cos he says he was there, playing keyboards. The Kinks guys deny
>this. I read an interview with Jeff Beck discussing this, and he claimed
>to have been there as well... but that may have been "tongue in cheek".
According to quite a few interviews I've read with Davies and Page, the
argument boils down to exactly which take was used. Evidently, there were
at least 2 takes of the song -- Page played lead guitar on one, and tamborine
on the other (with Davies on lead). I get the impression Page assumed his
take was released, but when Davies explained publicly that it was the track with
Page on tamborine that was actually used, Page replied (to the effect of) "Fair
enough," and seemed to acknowledge his error.
Strangely enough, when Page was asked whether he played lead guitar on Rockline
in 1988, he repled with a noncommital "Yeah, I played on Kinks tracks," which
really didn't resolve the question. If you really want to hear Jimmy rip off
the Kinks sound though, listen to his early single "She Just Satisfies".
-Kurt
Ron Crandall
>
>Sorry, my hearing must be going. Jimmy Page has one of the most distinct
>guitar tones around. He plays on about half of the about 10 songs on the
>
I'm curious why he's not credited. Credits are given to Andy Fairweather
Low for his rhythm guitar work on "It's Your Turn" and to Tim Gorman for
his piano, synthesizer, and organ work on several songs on the album.
I can't understand someone of the stature of Page not being credited.
And the Who had no problem playing songs from It's Hard on their '82 tour
without a supporting guitarist.
>
>I once read a "Guitar Player" or "Guitar World" interview with
>Page with discussed this stuff in a bit of detail. I'll dredge it up...
>
Jimmy Page, and don't question your assertions on him playing on several
other albums from the 80s (not sure I'd call it session work though). I do
know a lot about the Who, however, and have never even seen a hint of an
indication that he played on ANY of their latter day stuff.
For the record, the "Book of Rock Lists," by Dave Marsh and Kevin Stein
(Rolling Stone Press) provides the following list of Page's true session
work:
"Hurdy Gurdy Man," Donovan, Page plays lead.
"I Can't Explain," the Who, Page plays rhythm.
"You Really Got Me," the Kinks, Page plays lead (disputed).
"With a Little Help from My Friends," Joe Cocker, plays lead.
"Gloria" and "Here Comes the Night," Them, plays second guitar.
>--
>:: Martin Schwenke :::::::::::: mar...@syacus.acus :::::::::: +61 2 887 6791 :
>:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just Because I'm Paranoid Ron Crandall
Doesn't Mean the World's Penn State University
Really Not Against Me... R...@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (Internet)
R...@PSUVM.bitnet (Bitnet)
Brent Byer
on this subject. [So, there will be no way to determine
who is a fool, and who is merely gullible.] Unfortunately, this
also means that this reply will have to stand on its own,
without benefit of the context it endeavors to clarify.
Those readers familiar with the discussion should still get
the full benefit. I suggest that you try to retrieve the
previous articles, so that you can contrast the facts to
the fiction.
I am passing along a note I received from someone with *facts* :
( **Read carefully** ... and remember.)
===================== begin of correspondence ==================
I'm afraid Ron Crandall got it all wrong. First of all, I was
not the manager for the Who & the Kinks, I was the producer. In
fact I found both bands & signed the Kinks to Pye Records and the
Who to my own production company.
Jimmy Page did not play at all on "I can't explain", or any of my
Who sessions. Jimmy did play rhythm guitar on the first Kinks
LP, and certainly did not play lead on "You really got me", which
preceded the LP by several weeks, or anything else for that
matter. I only brought him in to play rhythm because at the
time, Ray wanted to concentrate on his singing. John Lord
played organ on that LP btw & Perry Ford was on piano.
Dave Davies was not shaky on lead at any time that I recorded
him--in fact, the reverse is true. There are many who consider
Townsend the greatest rhythm guitar player of them all, and not a
great lead player, or having any intention of being one. Suffice
it to say that whatever Townsend played fit the particular song.
I hope this clears up some of the "mysteries".
Cheers,
Shel Talmy
============= end of correspondence =========================
This song is over.
Brent Byer
Kurt Finchum
>I am passing along a note I received from someone with *facts* :
>
>I'm afraid Ron Crandall got it all wrong. First of all, I was
>not the manager for the Who & the Kinks, I was the producer. In
>fact I found both bands & signed the Kinks to Pye Records and the
>Who to my own production company.
>
>Jimmy Page did not play at all on "I can't explain", or any of my
>Who sessions. Jimmy did play rhythm guitar on the first Kinks
>LP, and certainly did not play lead on "You really got me", which
>preceded the LP by several weeks, or anything else for that
>matter. I only brought him in to play rhythm because at the
>time, Ray wanted to concentrate on his singing. John Lord
>played organ on that LP btw & Perry Ford was on piano.
>
>Dave Davies was not shaky on lead at any time that I recorded
>him--in fact, the reverse is true. There are many who consider
>Townsend the greatest rhythm guitar player of them all, and not a
>great lead player, or having any intention of being one. Suffice
>it to say that whatever Townsend played fit the particular song.
>
>I hope this clears up some of the "mysteries".
>Cheers,
>Shel Talmy
>============= end of correspondence =========================
It's neat that Brent was able to get a quote from Mr. Talmy about this
issue, but it doesn't seem to agree with the following quote from Pete
Townshend:
On "Can't Explain" we had been fully manipulated in the studio, the
like of which hasn't been seen since (aside from my dastardly treatment of
Thunderclap Newman). Jimmy Page played rhythm on the A side and lead
on the B, "Bald Headed Woman." He nearly played lead on the A, but it
was so simple even I could play it. [...]
Shel Talmy, who produced out first three singles, was a great believer
in "making groups who are nothing, stars." He was also a great believer
in pretending the group didn't exist when they were recording in the
studio. Despite the fact that I go on to say that our first few records
are among our best, they were the least fun to make. We only found out
recording was fun when we made "Happy Jack" and the ensuing album
with our latter-day producer Kit Lambert. However, dear Shel got us our
first single hits. So he was as close to being God for a week as any
other unworthy soul has been. Of course it was a short week; I quickly
realized it was really the brilliant untapped writing talent of our
lead guitarist, needless to say myself, that held the key to our
success. Talmy and all following claimers to Who history are imposters.
- Pete Townshend, 12-7-71, in The Rolling Stone Record Review, vol.II
Nor does it agree with Jimmy Page's story:
I played rhythm guitar on the Who's first single, "I Can't Explain."
I really wasn't needed at the session, but I was fortunate enough to
find myself there. It was simply a case of strengthening riffs, using
two guitars instead of one."
- The Led Zeppelin Biography, p. 33. (by Ritchie Yorke, 1976)
No disrespect to Brent or Mr. Talmy, but that makes it 2 to 1 against Talmy.
The following are excerpts from interviews with Davies and Page concerning
"You Really Got Me", etc, all from The Led Zep Bio:
[Page:] Concerning the Kinks' work, though, and looking at it in
retrospect, my presence at their sessions was to enable Ray Davies to
wander around and virtually maintain control of everything, without
having to be down in the studio all the time. Ray was producing those
songs as much as Shel Talmy was . . . more so actually because Ray was
directing them and everything. At one point, there were even three
guitars playing the same riff.
[Ray Davies:] Dave Davies is a good guitar player and he played the solos
on all our records. Jimmy Page played tamborine on 'Long Tall Shorty'
because he came into the studio as a friend of Shel Talmy's. [...]
Dave Davies did all those solos and Dave started that sound. The take
of "You Really Got Me" that was actually released was the third take --
there was a demo thing with Dave playing lead, a second cut which may
have had Jimmy Page on it (and which Pye Records still have in their
vaults) and a third which definitely had Dave on it. I know because I was
standing right next to him when he played on it. And that's the one
which was released. Jimmy Page did play tamborine on our first album.
It's very good tamborine and he's a very good musician. I'd use him if
I was producing a record.
[Page: (after Zigzag magazine brought Davies' remarks to his attention]
Fair enough -- I didn't really do that much on the Kinks' records. I
know I managed to get a couple of riffs in on their album but I can't
really remember. I know that Ray didn't really approve of my presence.
The Kinks just didn't want me around when they were recording. It was
Shel Talmy's idea. One aspect of being in the studio while potential hits
were being made was the press -- too many writers were making a big fuss
about the use of session men. Obviously I wasn't saying anything to the
press but it just leaked out . . . and that sort of thing often led to
considerable bad feeling.
Everyone seems to agree in the case of "You Really Got Me," but Page and
Townshend both disagree with Talmy on "I Can't Explain." The world may
never know...;-)
-Kurt
>Brent Byer
Martin Schwenke
the Guitar Player (I think) article which I'm after. I'd also like to
see if anyone agrees/disagrees with my listening/recollection. I
claimed, a few iterations back, that Jimmy Page played guitar on the
Who's "It's Hard".
R...@psuvm.psu.edu (Ron Crandall) writes:
>I'm curious why he's not credited. [...]
>And the Who had no problem playing songs from It's Hard on their '82 tour
>without a supporting guitarist.
I have only a tape original of "It's Hard"; no credit listing. It
sounds like Page, and when I asked a friend who he thought it was,
without prompting, he said "Page". I have quite a few Who albums at
home, and this is the only one on which I can hear this guitar tone. It
sounds exactly like what Page was doing at the time. I would (sincerely)
appreciate it if someone could point to some other Who stuff which has
some similar guitar work. It wouldn't only help to convince me, but I
would also enjoy listening to it... I'm almost ready to renege...
>>I once read a "Guitar Player" or "Guitar World" interview with
>>Page with discussed this stuff in a bit of detail. I'll dredge it up...
>>
>I'd like to see this myself. I don't claim to be any kind of expert on
>Jimmy Page, and don't question your assertions on him playing on several
>other albums from the 80s (not sure I'd call it session work though). I do
>know a lot about the Who, however, and have never even seen a hint of an
>indication that he played on ANY of their latter day stuff.
I looked thru' an hour and a half's worth (years) of assorted guitar
magazines. I didn't find it. I'll have another look. Not only can I
not find the facts I'm looking for, but I can't find the particular
article which I remember other things about:
o preamble contained an "almost" review of a Firm concert. I seem to
recall this being in between the 2 albums.
o discussion on the power of sub-audible music, leading onto the dangers
of "group thought concentration" at concerts & such...
The interview, over all, was one of the more interesting Jimmy Page
interviews which I've read. If anyone remembers this interview, article,
or issue of whatever magazine (probably GP), can they send me a pointer
to it??? It would help my obvious current lack of sanity...
>For the record, the "Book of Rock Lists," by Dave Marsh and Kevin Stein
>(Rolling Stone Press) provides the following list of Page's true session
>work:
> [...]
> "Gloria" and "Here Comes the Night," Them, plays second guitar.
^^^^^^
This explains a lot about that song. I'll listen to it with that it
mind... but it sounds like one of the more obvious facts in the world
when I think about it.
peace & happiness,
martin
--
:: Martin Schwenke :::::::::::: mar...@syacus.acus :::::::::: +61 2 887 6791 ::