a thought about the new standard editions.
Fritz
the mono box, and currently I am working my way through the catalogue, from
Please Please Me to Past Masters. I am listening to each version and compare
with the 1987 editions, with http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/ at
hand for further reading.
I am now between Rubber Soul and Revolver. So far: excellent work done at
EMI.
I would like to hear your thoughts about the following. AFAIK, the standard
editions for Beatles CD's from now will be the stereo remaster. For most
Cd's, I think this is fine.
But: what about Help! and Revolver? The stereo on these is not the 1965 mix,
but the 1987 remix done by George Martin for CD. Perhaps the 1987 versions
sound better trhan the 1965 versions, but there are some other songs on
other CD's that could have done with a remix. So why only those two, or: why
not use the 1965 versions to keep everything on one line?
On the other hand: the Please Please Me and With The Beatles stereo mixes
are probably very rough for an average listener, essentially they are the
twin-track recordings, with instruments left and vocals right. Imagine
someone buying With The Beatles in 2012 and hearing this? Would those two
not beter be replaced by the mono versions, (or if possible: remixes)
Just my 2c
Cheers,
Fritz
Jeff
I don't understand why people keep talking about any 1987-88 remixes.
They weren't really remixes. They were the same thing you've heard
since 1964...or close to it. It's been over 40 years since much of the
sound has changed...unless you want to consider the Yellow Submarine.
they did half assed, a few years ago. It was an improvement of sorts.
Jeff
Jud McCranie
<yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>I don't understand why people keep talking about any 1987-88 remixes.
>They weren't really remixes.
Help and RS were remixed for the 87 CDs. But I played the 65 stereo
Help last night, and although I didn't do a comparison, they don't
seem that different from the 65 mix.
--
Replace you know what by j to email
Fritz
"Jeff" <yourimag...@sbcglobal.net> schreef in bericht
news:44955d27-5e85-4db9...@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 16, 3:26 pm, "Fritz" <ef_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I don't understand why people keep talking about any 1987-88 remixes.
>They weren't really remixes. They were the same thing you've heard
>since 1964...or close to it.
I am sorry, but I disagree. Listen to the 1965 stereo mixes, now available
on the mono CD's. I remember I was surprised in 1987 to hear reverb on the
Help CD, especially on Dizzy Miss Lizzy. Perhaps I am a conservative, but I
have always preferred the 1965 mix for that one.
On Rubber Soul some tracks were remixed in 1987 with vocals more to the
center, in 1965 they were far right. Here I prefer the 1987 mix.
But in both cases: not close, no.
Cheers,
Fritz
whosbest54
>OK, so the Remasters are here, finally. I have bought both the stereo and
>the mono box, and currently I am working my way through the catalogue, from
>Please Please Me to Past Masters. I am listening to each version and compare
>with the 1987 editions, with http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/ at
>hand for further reading.
>
>I am now between Rubber Soul and Revolver. So far: excellent work done at
>EMI.
>
on my web site. So far, the only A/B comparison off all the tracks I've done
to the 1987 CDs is the WA. There are some improvements, but IMHO, they are
not that significant for the WA. We'll see for the others. I don't have
access to the 1987 CDs at this time, I plan to borrow some of them to do more
A/B comparisions.
Over the years I've normally listened on my audio systems to tapes I made of
my copies of the Parlaphone British stereo LPs I bought in the early 70s.
I've listened to some of the earlier remaster albums and to me they are an
improvement over my LPs, but I feel it's mainly because they are CDs produced
with modern techniques, which will always generally beat LPs. If you read my
web site you'll see I generally prefer CDs over LPs where the
mastering/production techniques for both are done right.
>I would like to hear your thoughts about the following. AFAIK, the standard
>editions for Beatles CD's from now will be the stereo remaster. For most
>Cd's, I think this is fine.
>
>But: what about Help! and Revolver? The stereo on these is not the 1965 mix,
>but the 1987 remix done by George Martin for CD. Perhaps the 1987 versions
>sound better trhan the 1965 versions, but there are some other songs on
>other CD's that could have done with a remix. So why only those two, or: why
>not use the 1965 versions to keep everything on one line?
>
There have been articles about the project that outline how these sorts of
decisions were made. In this case, there was a decision that Martin's 1987
remixes of Help! and RS would be used for the now 'official' stereo remasters
and the '65 stereo mixes still provided with the mono box set only. So, one
could say both are newly available. The decision was the '87 remixes were
more appropriate for the stereo set. It could be argued either way.
>On the other hand: the Please Please Me and With The Beatles stereo mixes
>are probably very rough for an average listener, essentially they are the
>twin-track recordings, with instruments left and vocals right. Imagine
>someone buying With The Beatles in 2012 and hearing this? Would those two
>not beter be replaced by the mono versions, (or if possible: remixes)
>
George Martin agreed with you in 1987 for the first 4 albums. I tend to agree
with you too for only the twin track masters. When they went to 4 track, then
the 1987 CDs should have been stereo. I think ideally they should have made
an attempt to remix the twin tracks to better center the vocals (and as I've
said here in several posts, remix all the albums for stereo at least through
Revolver and mix surround versions for the later multitrack masters). These
also could have had the stereo and mono versions fit on the same CD. At least
they issued both the mono and stereo, but the mono sets will be a somewhat
limited release and unavailable as the official individual verions.
whosbest54
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Jud McCranie
<whosb...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>George Martin agreed with you in 1987 for the first 4 albums. I tend to agree
>with you too for only the twin track masters. When they went to 4 track, then
>the 1987 CDs should have been stereo.
From what I recall, Martin wasn't directly involved in the first four
1987 CDs. They asked him about them and he said "mono" but then he
said that he meant the first two only (the twin-track ones).
JohnBL
> the mono box, and currently I am working my way through the catalogue, from
> Please Please Me to Past Masters. I am listening to each version and compare
> hand for further reading.
Excellent idea. If I ever get a lazy week to myself, I might listen
to the monos and stereos with Joe Brennan's website as a listening
guide.
> I am now between Rubber Soul and Revolver. So far: excellent work done at
> EMI.
>
> I would like to hear your thoughts about the following. AFAIK, the standard
> editions for Beatles CD's from now will be the stereo remaster. For most
> Cd's, I think this is fine.
>
> But: what about Help! and Revolver? The stereo on these is not the 1965 mix,
> but the 1987 remix done by George Martin for CD. Perhaps the 1987 versions
> sound better trhan the 1965 versions, but there are some other songs on
> other CD's that could have done with a remix. So why only those two, or: why
> not use the 1965 versions to keep everything on one line?
A tough call, but I think going with the original mixes was the safest
choice that would please most of the people most of the time. There's
been a lot of praise around here lately for the Yellow Submarine
Songtrack remixes, but there were some serious heated arguments on
this forum when it was released back in '99. Remix and you'll get
purists and naysayers who'll say they did a lousy (or even
blasphemous!) job. Stick to the original mixes -- and do a good job
with the remastering (which I think they did) -- and any complaints
will be limited to what they did back in the sixties.
You stated that you prefer the '65 mix for HELP! and the '87 mix for
RUBBER SOUL, and I agree with you for the most part. But a few tracks
(especially "Ticket to Ride") sound vastly improved in the '87
version, so it's a close call.
I think the '87 mixes might sound slightly more modern to today's
audiences, so I'm guessing that's why they went with them. As for
putting both stereo mixes on a single stereo disc, it was probably to
keep the official stereo catalogue consistent. You don't get a two-
for-one deal on the other CDs, so why add another 14 tracks to these
two albums? From a marketing standpoint, it makes sense to release
the original mixes elsewhere -- in this case, the mono box set.
I'm not saying I like what they did, only that I understand why they
did it.
> On the other hand: the Please Please Me and With The Beatles stereo mixes
> are probably very rough for an average listener, essentially they are the
> twin-track recordings, with instruments left and vocals right. Imagine
> someone buying With The Beatles in 2012 and hearing this? Would those two
> not beter be replaced by the mono versions, (or if possible: remixes)
>
> Just my 2c
We agree halfway. I think PPM sounds great in stereo, with a natural
separation to everything and lots of punch in the bass and drums. The
simplicity with which it was recorded (live in the studio with few
overdubs) contributes to the clean sound. WTB, on the other hand, is
hit-and-miss in stereo (with, as I mentioned in another thread,
"Little Child" getting my vote for the worst stereo mix of any Beatles
song). Yet I find the album a bit lifeless and two-dimensional in
mono. A track-by-track judgment call for me.
John L
Jud McCranie
wrote:
>On Sep 16, 3:26?pm, "Fritz" <ef_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>been a lot of praise around here lately for the Yellow Submarine
>Songtrack remixes, but there were some serious heated arguments on
>this forum when it was released back in '99. Remix and you'll get
>purists and naysayers who'll say they did a lousy (or even
>blasphemous!) job. Stick to the original mixes -- and do a good job
>with the remastering (which I think they did) -- and any complaints
>will be limited to what they did back in the sixties.
I agree with you on that. But with these new remasters sounding as
good as they can sound, if there are remixes later the "purists and
naysayers" won't really have anything to complain about, since these
will still be available.
Stephen X. Carter
That's more than interesting. So far my mono set has not arrived and I
was waiting to hear the first two before posting this view, but what the
heck....
"Please Please Me" and "With The Beatles" - twin track recordings
frankly sound silly in stereo.
--
steve.hat.stephencarter.not.com.but.net
Nothing is Beatle Proof!!
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Jeff
wrote:
You know how it is though. People still find plenty of things to
complain about.