Fred and GG on Paul's Japan bust
UsurperTom
guests on a taping of "The Shirley Show," a popular Toronto talk show. The
show aired on Canada's CTV the next month. The topic of that particular show
was how the Beatles were flawed human beings and a wave of tell all books were
now being published about the Fab Four. Fred was promoting "The Last Days of
John Lennon" and Giuliano was promoting his controversial biography of Paul,
"Blackbird." The show started when Fred and GG told the host, Shirley Solomon,
about Yoko's role in having Paul arrested in Japan. Here is the transcript of
that discussion.
Solomon: Did you read Geoffrey's book, "Blackbird?"
Fred: Yes. I thought it was quite good. He confirms the story that Yoko had a
hand in having McCartney busted in Japan in 1980, which Paul denies.
Giuliano: He may not even know.
Fred: I think he knew long before any of our books came out. He just denies
it, because he has a business relationship with Yoko to protect.
Solomon: Tell me about that.
Fred: McCartney was on his way to Japan in January of 1980 when he called the
Dakota and wanted to hang out with John, whom he hadn't seen in about two
years. Only he didn't get through to John. Yoko saw to that. But in his
conversation with Yoko he told her that Linda had scored some dynamite
marijuana. He also said that he was on his way to Japan and that he and Linda
were planning to stay at the Hotel Akura, in the presidential suite. Which is
the same room where John and Yoko always stayed. When Yoko heard this she
became very upset, because in her mind it would forever spoil their good "hotel
karma." She told John that something had to be done about it. She said she
was going to put a spell on Paul to insure that he'd never move into that hotel
room. The following day she went into a meeting with one of her psychics and,
indeed, the next day Paul was busted at the airport in Tokyo.
Solomon: They (the McCartneys) really liked grass a lot, didn't they?
Fred: Yeah, they're really into pot. You see, as far as John was concerned,
Yoko was a powerful magician, a sorceress, and she put a spell on Paul. In
fact, what she actually did was place a call to a relative who was a high
official at Japanese customs. They knew Paul was carrying, but they didn't
really want to bust him. They asked if he had anything to declare. If he had
turned it over, perhaps they would have let him go. But Paul became very
belligerent. So they had no choice but to search him. Anyway, they found the
drugs and carted him off to jail. John was very fascinated by the whole thing.
He asked me to get all the British papers and enjoyed rumors that Paul was
being forced by his Japanese captors to play "Yesterday" over and over again on
the guitar. So the whole thing was very amusing to him. He knew nothing would
really happen to Paul. They would keep him in the slammer for a few days and
then deport him.
Giuliano: But Paul himself was worried, because there was a possibility he
could get up to eight years. The Japanese don't fool around with this stuff.
They wouldn't even let him take a shower. He was apparently washing his face
on the toilet. Finally, they said, "Do you want to take your bath alone or
with the others?" So he said, with the others. Anyway, he stripped down and
they were all just staring at him. The guards, everyone in the whole place was
there. Being the eternal showman he is he broke into song and started singing
"Mull of Kintyre." And they jumped in in Japanese.
END
Tom
>
> Fred: Yes. I thought it was quite good. He confirms the story that Yoko had a
> hand in having McCartney busted in Japan in 1980, which Paul denies.
>
> Giuliano: He may not even know.
>
> Fred: I think he knew long before any of our books came out. He just denies
> it, because he has a business relationship with Yoko to protect.
>
Jack Douglas saying that Yoko tried to help Paul in that situation?
I have to wonder about this ubiquitous "business relationship" excuse
that's trotted out by a certain group here every time Paul says
something that isn't critical of Yoko. If Yoko is so horrible, Paul
could easily form a colalition with the others and outvote her
consistantly. Yoko would have more to lose from a rift than Paul
would.
> Solomon: Tell me about that.
>
> Fred: McCartney was on his way to Japan in January of 1980 when he called the
> Dakota and wanted to hang out with John, whom he hadn't seen in about two
> years. Only he didn't get through to John. Yoko saw to that. But in his
> conversation with Yoko he told her that Linda had scored some dynamite
> marijuana. He also said that he was on his way to Japan and that he and Linda
> were planning to stay at the Hotel Akura, in the presidential suite. Which is
> the same room where John and Yoko always stayed. When Yoko heard this she
> became very upset, because in her mind it would forever spoil their good "hotel
> karma." She told John that something had to be done about it. She said she
> was going to put a spell on Paul to insure that he'd never move into that hotel
> room. The following day she went into a meeting with one of her psychics and,
> indeed, the next day Paul was busted at the airport in Tokyo.
>
So Fred is confirming that Yoko really did have psychic powers?
> Solomon: They (the McCartneys) really liked grass a lot, didn't they?
>
> Fred: Yeah, they're really into pot. You see, as far as John was concerned,
> Yoko was a powerful magician, a sorceress, and she put a spell on Paul. In
> fact, what she actually did was place a call to a relative who was a high
> official at Japanese customs.
Wonder which version of the story Fred's telling here. It could be the
version where he was in the room when she made the call, which he told
during a radio interview a few years ago. Or it could be the version
he told here, after he was asked about his fluency in Japanese. In
that one, he heard about it from someone who was in the room.
He never explained why Yoko would make a call like that with someone
else in the room.
If you're serious about his "historical research" thing, you've got to
be more critical about your sources.
Áine ni Griobhtha
c22d8067.01052...@posting.google.com, "Tom"
<Blac...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>> Solomon: Did you read Geoffrey's book, "Blackbird?"
>>
>> Fred: Yes. I thought it was quite good. He confirms the story that Yoko had
>> a
>> hand in having McCartney busted in Japan in 1980, which Paul denies.
>>
>> Giuliano: He may not even know.
>>
>> Fred: I think he knew long before any of our books came out. He just denies
>> it, because he has a business relationship with Yoko to protect.
>>
> So Fred is calling Paul McCartney a liar?
I'm sure Paul is a liar in public about a lot of things - as is every public
figure. No one can be 100% truthful, and anyone with a lick of sense knows
that at times it's best to set the "truth" aside anyway.
> What does he think about
> Jack Douglas saying that Yoko tried to help Paul in that situation?
What *does* Jack Douglas say about Yoko helping Paul? I've only heard that
he says John was upset about the bust, which goes against Fred's account in
and of itself.
> I have to wonder about this ubiquitous "business relationship" excuse
> that's trotted out by a certain group here every time Paul says
> something that isn't critical of Yoko. If Yoko is so horrible, Paul
> could easily form a colalition with the others and outvote her
> consistantly. Yoko would have more to lose from a rift than Paul
> would.
The latter-day Beatles do not work like that, Tom. They work on an "all for
one, one for all" basis. If any one has a problem with a project or issue,
then that project does not go forward, period. This keeps coalitions from
forming to vote any one member out. It also means there's constant
bickering.
To say Paul and Yoko don't like each other is an understatement. They've
tried, but in the past few years Paul (at least) has dropped any pretense.
He told USA Today in October of 1998, "Yoko is not a friend." That's as
direct a statement as can be given.
>> She said she
>> was going to put a spell on Paul to insure that he'd never move into that
>> hotel room. The following day she went into a meeting with one of her
>> psychics and, indeed, the next day Paul was busted at the airport in Tokyo.
>>
> So Fred is confirming that Yoko really did have psychic powers?
>
>> Solomon: They (the McCartneys) really liked grass a lot, didn't they?
>>
>> Fred: Yeah, they're really into pot. You see, as far as John was concerned,
>> Yoko was a powerful magician, a sorceress, and she put a spell on Paul. In
>> fact, what she actually did was place a call to a relative who was a high
>> official at Japanese customs.
>
> Wonder which version of the story Fred's telling here. It could be the
> version where he was in the room when she made the call, which he told
> during a radio interview a few years ago. Or it could be the version
> he told here, after he was asked about his fluency in Japanese. In
> that one, he heard about it from someone who was in the room.
>
> He never explained why Yoko would make a call like that with someone
> else in the room.
>
> If you're serious about his "historical research" thing, you've got to
> be more critical about your sources.
I agree with you on these comments and I remain very skeptical about the
entire story.
It comes down to this: Paul carried weed into Japan. It was his
responsibility and he suffered the consequences.
--
"Feel free to provide authoritative references; in the meantime, you
won't mind if we conclude that you're simply making this up." - Ian York
UsurperTom
>So Fred is calling Paul McCartney a liar?
All public figures lie on occasion. That's no big deal.
>What does he think about
>Jack Douglas saying that Yoko tried to help Paul in that situation?
John and Yoko didn't get in touch with Jack Douglas until six months after the
fact. Fred did say in this newsgroup that John Eastman solicited Yoko's help
in getting Paul released.
>I have to wonder about this ubiquitous "business relationship" excuse
>that's trotted out by a certain group here every time Paul says
>something that isn't critical of Yoko.
I wonder why the Paul bashers in rmb never give Paul credit when he has
something nice to say about Yoko.
>So Fred is confirming that Yoko really did have psychic powers?
No. Fred is confirming what John believed. In the next passage, he makes it
clear what Yoko actually did.
>Or it could be the version
>he told here, after he was asked about his fluency in Japanese. In
>that one, he heard about it from someone who was in the room.
I haven't heard the radio interview. If you read Fred's book, he only wrote
the part of the story that he witnessed. Fred said that John told him that
Yoko and psychic John Green went behind closed doors to deal with Paul
violating the Lennons' "hotel karma." This account is also in Keith Badman's
"After the Breakup." John Green and Sam Green, Yoko's art dealer and lover ,
were the sources cited by Goldman and Giuliano when they wrote that Yoko called
a cousin in customs.
Tom
UsurperTom
>I've only heard that
>he says John was upset about the bust, which goes against Fred's account in
>and of itself.
There is no real contradiction here. Fred did say that John would never have
turned in Paul himself and John thought the arrest was somebody's idea of a
sick joke. Giuliano's "Lennon in America" says that John was initially amused
by the arrest, but began to worry when Paul was still in jail after a couple of
days. John Green wrote in "Dakota Days" that John enjoyed Paul's ordeal, but
expressed relief when Paul was finally released.
>It comes down to this: Paul carried weed into Japan. It was his
>responsibility and he suffered the consequences.
Exactly!
Tom
paramucho
>
>I haven't heard the radio interview. If you read Fred's book, he only wrote
>the part of the story that he witnessed. Fred said that John told him that
>Yoko and psychic John Green went behind closed doors to deal with Paul
>violating the Lennons' "hotel karma." This account is also in Keith Badman's
>"After the Breakup." John Green and Sam Green, Yoko's art dealer and lover ,
>were the sources cited by Goldman and Giuliano when they wrote that Yoko called
>a cousin in customs.
Which cousin?
Ian
Áine ni Griobhtha
20010529121830...@ng-fv1.aol.com, "UsurperTom"
<usurp...@aol.com> wrote:
> I haven't heard the radio interview. If you read Fred's book, he only wrote
> the part of the story that he witnessed. Fred said that John told him that
> Yoko and psychic John Green went behind closed doors to deal with Paul
> violating the Lennons' "hotel karma." This account is also in Keith Badman's
> "After the Breakup."
Badman provides no sources on this and therefore it must be concluded that
he got his info from the books of Seaman and Green. His word carries no
more weight than yours.
--
"Feel free to provide authoritative references; in the meantime, you
won't mind if we conclude that you're simply making this up." - Ian York
"...There is a reckless disregard for the truth in this story and it
still pops up. That is what seems obvious to me." - an rmb'er, 2 Aug 99
Tom
> >>
> >> Fred: Yes. I thought it was quite good. He confirms the story that Yoko had
> >> a
> >> hand in having McCartney busted in Japan in 1980, which Paul denies.
> >>
> >> Giuliano: He may not even know.
> >>
> >> Fred: I think he knew long before any of our books came out. He just denies
> >> it, because he has a business relationship with Yoko to protect.
> >>
> > So Fred is calling Paul McCartney a liar?
>
> I'm sure Paul is a liar in public about a lot of things - as is every public
> figure. No one can be 100% truthful, and anyone with a lick of sense knows
> that at times it's best to set the "truth" aside anyway.
>
>
> > What does he think about
> > Jack Douglas saying that Yoko tried to help Paul in that situation?
>
> What *does* Jack Douglas say about Yoko helping Paul? I've only heard that
> he says John was upset about the bust, which goes against Fred's account in
> and of itself.
>
He doesn't give specifics, but in the Beatlefan interview he gave a
while back, he says that Yoko made some calls. (well, with Paul in
jail, someone had to make them. Again, I kid.)
>
> > I have to wonder about this ubiquitous "business relationship" excuse
> > that's trotted out by a certain group here every time Paul says
> > something that isn't critical of Yoko. If Yoko is so horrible, Paul
> > could easily form a colalition with the others and outvote her
> > consistantly. Yoko would have more to lose from a rift than Paul
> > would.
>
> The latter-day Beatles do not work like that, Tom. They work on an "all for
> one, one for all" basis. If any one has a problem with a project or issue,
> then that project does not go forward, period. This keeps coalitions from
> forming to vote any one member out. It also means there's constant
> bickering.
>
They work like that now, but I'm not sure that arrangement was
formalized in writing. A consistent Paul/George/Ringo bloc would be
able to freeze out Yoko.
However, I'm not sure Paul is any more popular with George and Ringo.
Of course, for all I know it is in writing.
> To say Paul and Yoko don't like each other is an understatement. They've
> tried, but in the past few years Paul (at least) has dropped any pretense.
> He told USA Today in October of 1998, "Yoko is not a friend." That's as
> direct a statement as can be given.
>
You're talking about after Linda's memorial? I've had a bit of fun
with that one recently, too, but if I remember correctly, Paul bent
over backwards to make clear that he wasn't saying that he had
anything against Yoko. I believe he gave Ted Kennedy as an example of
another famous person who he knew but didn't invite.
Anyway, both of them go back and forth about the other. My guess is
that "friends" and "enemies" is an overstatement on both sides.
Sometimes they're friendly, sometimes they're not. At their age, I'd
be surprised if they really do all this petty high school crap that's
attributed to them in this group. They both have better things to
worry about.
Bob Stahley
: At their age, I'd
: be surprised if they really do all this petty high school crap that's
: attributed to them in this group. They both have better things to
: worry about.
Nail, Head <- Hit
--
__ __
_) _) fabo...@mindspring.com Why is a raven like a writing-desk?
__)__) Tosa, Witzend http://www.gildasclub.org/
Ed Igoe
> Badman provides no sources on this and therefore it must be concluded
> that he got his info from the books of Seaman and Green. His word
> carries no more weight than yours.
What's truly amazing is that ANYONE could make these comments without
at least clearing his throat constantly and keeping fingers on both
hands crossed.
To be able to make these statements with any certainty, one had to be
present with Paul when he made the call to Linda, as well at the
Dakota when the call came through. They also had to be present at
the airport when Paul arrived. They also have to be able read the
minds of all parties involved.
Now I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE that one mind reader was in all
three places, but it'd take more magic than David Copperfield has
ever shown to pull it off.
--
-Ed Igoe
To Reply, please change the "Eye" in E-Mail address to "i"
Tom
> Tom wrote:
>
> >So Fred is calling Paul McCartney a liar?
>
> All public figures lie on occasion. That's no big deal.
Except in a Yoko thread it seems.
>
> >What does he think about
> >Jack Douglas saying that Yoko tried to help Paul in that situation?
>
> John and Yoko didn't get in touch with Jack Douglas until six months after the
> fact. Fred did say in this newsgroup that John Eastman solicited Yoko's help
> in getting Paul released.
>
Yet Jack Douglas does say with certainty that Yoko tried to help in
Japan. Either he had contact with John and Yoko before he was decided
on as the producer for the album, or he learned from John and Yoko
that she tried to help.
If the latter, they could have been lying, but why since according to
Fred they made no secret of their feelings about Paul.
> >I have to wonder about this ubiquitous "business relationship" excuse
> >that's trotted out by a certain group here every time Paul says
> >something that isn't critical of Yoko.
>
> I wonder why the Paul bashers in rmb never give Paul credit when he has
> something nice to say about Yoko.
>
I've asked the same thing about why the Yoko bashers in rmb never give
Yoko credit when she has something nice to say about Paul. However,
you're not answering me, you're repeating my observation, but applying
it to a diferent group. Nice things that Paul says about Yoko are
ignored.
> >So Fred is confirming that Yoko really did have psychic powers?
>
> No. Fred is confirming what John believed. In the next passage, he makes it
> clear what Yoko actually did.
>
> >Or it could be the version
> >he told here, after he was asked about his fluency in Japanese. In
> >that one, he heard about it from someone who was in the room.
>
> I haven't heard the radio interview.
I have, he was asked point blank if he was in the room while she made
the call, and he said yes. No room for ambiguity there.
If you read Fred's book, he only wrote
> the part of the story that he witnessed. Fred said that John told him that
> Yoko and psychic John Green went behind closed doors to deal with Paul
> violating the Lennons' "hotel karma."
So he didn't write about what he witnessed. He not only wrote about
what John told him happened, but John himself didn't witness what went
on behind closed doors.
Nyarlathotep
> the part of the story that he witnessed. Fred said that John told him that
> Yoko and psychic John Green went behind closed doors to deal with Paul
> violating the Lennons' "hotel karma." This account is also in Keith Badman's
> "After the Breakup." John Green and Sam Green, Yoko's art dealer and lover ,
> were the sources cited by Goldman and Giuliano when they wrote that Yoko called
> a cousin in customs.
That's right. Fred, who was Lennon's friend & PA, John Green,
who Yoko had been in constant consultation with since '74, and Sam
Green, who was Yoko's lover -- in short, precisely the people we would
naturally turn to to authenticate the allegation -- converge in saying
Yoko arranged the bust.
BTW, while the myth-obseisant members of this group dismiss Sam
Green, there's no sound reason for doing so. He IS (along with Fred
and John Green) reliable -- and authors of books on Greta Garbo, Cecil
Beaton, Andy Warhol, and Barbara Bakeland have used him as an
important source. It wasn't until Green said things about Yoko that
were contrary to the PR BS she & Lennon had put out that anyone
attacked Sam Green.
UsurperTom
>Yet Jack Douglas does say with certainty that Yoko tried to help in
>Japan.
If you can, please post his exact quotes. Yoko probably told him a half truth
when she got in touch with him six months later. Fred said that Yoko tried to
help after Eastman called her because Yoko enjoyed having power over Paul's
fate. John Green wrote that Yoko was using Tarot cards to monitor how Paul was
doing. Paul inadvertently reinforced Fred's account in his recent Billboard
interview when he revealed that John and Yoko sent him letters of support.
Before Paul got his visa to enter Japan, Yoko was amused that Paul begged for
her help in getting the visa. Yoko happily obliged and got the visa from her
cousin, Hideaki Kase, a Japanese diplomat in New York.
>Nice things that Paul says about Yoko are ignored.
I'm no fan of Paul. I take what he says with a grain of salt.
>John himself didn't witness what went on behind closed doors.
Both John and Fred knew that the doors were closed so "Mother and Charlie Swan
(John Green)" could use their magic to prevent Paul from staying in the hotel.
Then they get surprised when Paul magically gets arrested the next day. John
Green later told his roomate, Jeffrey Hunter, and Albert Goldman that Yoko
bragged to him that she set the whole thing up by tipping off customs.
Tom
Tom
> when she got in touch with him six months later.
Why? And what evidence do you have, other than a feeling that it
sounds good?
Fred said that Yoko tried to
> help after Eastman called her because Yoko enjoyed having power over Paul's
> fate. John Green wrote that Yoko was using Tarot cards to monitor how Paul was
> doing. Paul inadvertently reinforced Fred's account in his recent Billboard
> interview when he revealed that John and Yoko sent him letters of support.
I'm sorry, but that is a hideous lapse of logic. Because John and Yoko
did support Paul, Fred's account of Yoko setting up Paul was
confirmed?
> Before Paul got his visa to enter Japan, Yoko was amused that Paul begged for
> her help in getting the visa. Yoko happily obliged and got the visa from her
> cousin, Hideaki Kase, a Japanese diplomat in New York.
>
Well, that was nice of her.
> >Nice things that Paul says about Yoko are ignored.
>
> I'm no fan of Paul. I take what he says with a grain of salt.
>
> >John himself didn't witness what went on behind closed doors.
>
> Both John and Fred knew that the doors were closed so "Mother and Charlie Swan
> (John Green)" could use their magic to prevent Paul from staying in the hotel.
> Then they get surprised when Paul magically gets arrested the next day. John
> Green later told his roomate, Jeffrey Hunter, and Albert Goldman that Yoko
> bragged to him that she set the whole thing up by tipping off customs.
So none of this was witnessed by Fred, as you claimed.
Mister Charlie
a point more often than not they can't/don't/won't.
Opinions are being passed off as fact, and until others confront those
people with the logical, proper questions the truth is never going to win.
And Seaman should be one of the first in line for questioning. Hell, any
author (even Lewisohn has been shown to be fallible, not to discredit him)
of any book we take for granted should be (if alive). "Facts", like
statistics, can be massaged any number of ways when not truthfully
presented, or only half complete, or when the author, with malice, buries
his shit in nuggets of known truth.
"Tom" <Blac...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:c22d8067.0105...@posting.google.com...
fredseaman
> > Solomon: Did you read Geoffrey's book, "Blackbird?"
> >
> > Fred: Yes. I thought it was quite good. He confirms the story that Yoko had a
> > hand in having McCartney busted in Japan in 1980, which Paul denies.
> >
> > Giuliano: He may not even know.
> >
> > Fred: I think he knew long before any of our books came out. He just denies
> > it, because he has a business relationship with Yoko to protect.
> >
> So Fred is calling Paul McCartney a liar? What does he think about
> Jack Douglas saying that Yoko tried to help Paul in that situation?
>
value YO's claim that she tried to help Paul. 'Taint no big deal...
> I have to wonder about this ubiquitous "business relationship" excuse
> that's trotted out by a certain group here every time Paul says
> something that isn't critical of Yoko. If Yoko is so horrible, Paul
> could easily form a colalition with the others and outvote her
> consistantly.
Not at all. That's a rather naive assumption that betrays your ignorance
of the decision-making process within Apple...
Yoko would have more to lose from a rift than Paul
> would.
>
> > Solomon: Tell me about that.
> >
> > Fred: McCartney was on his way to Japan in January of 1980 when he called the
> > Dakota and wanted to hang out with John, whom he hadn't seen in about two
> > years. Only he didn't get through to John. Yoko saw to that. But in his
> > conversation with Yoko he told her that Linda had scored some dynamite
> > marijuana. He also said that he was on his way to Japan and that he and Linda
> > were planning to stay at the Hotel Akura, in the presidential suite. Which is
> > the same room where John and Yoko always stayed. When Yoko heard this she
> > became very upset, because in her mind it would forever spoil their good "hotel
> > karma." She told John that something had to be done about it. She said she
> > was going to put a spell on Paul to insure that he'd never move into that hotel
> > room. The following day she went into a meeting with one of her psychics and,
> > indeed, the next day Paul was busted at the airport in Tokyo.
> >
> So Fred is confirming that Yoko really did have psychic powers?
No, dummy! She doesn't have psychic powers, that's why she has to hire psychics...;-)
> > Solomon: They (the McCartneys) really liked grass a lot, didn't they?
> >
> > Fred: Yeah, they're really into pot. You see, as far as John was concerned,
> > Yoko was a powerful magician, a sorceress, and she put a spell on Paul. In
> > fact, what she actually did was place a call to a relative who was a high
> > official at Japanese customs.
>
> Wonder which version of the story Fred's telling here. It could be the
> version where he was in the room when she made the call, which he told
> during a radio interview a few years ago. Or it could be the version
> he told here, after he was asked about his fluency in Japanese. In
> that one, he heard about it from someone who was in the room.
No, you're wrong again. There is no contradiction, and you are misrepresenting
my post, as always, liar.
> He never explained why Yoko would make a call like that with someone
> else in the room.
>
> If you're serious about his "historical research" thing, you've got to
> be more critical about your sources.
If you're interested in having any kind of serious discussion you have to be
more honest & not pretend that you have expert knowledge when, in fact, you're
clueless...
fredseaman
> In December 1991, Geoffrey Giuliano, Fred Seaman and May Pang appeared as
> guests on a taping of "The Shirley Show," a popular Toronto talk show. The
> show aired on Canada's CTV the next month. The topic of that particular show
> was how the Beatles were flawed human beings and a wave of tell all books were
> now being published about the Fab Four. Fred was promoting "The Last Days of
> John Lennon" and Giuliano was promoting his controversial biography of Paul,
> "Blackbird." The show started when Fred and GG told the host, Shirley Solomon,
> about Yoko's role in having Paul arrested in Japan. Here is the transcript of
> that discussion.
>
> Solomon: Did you read Geoffrey's book, "Blackbird?"
>
> Fred: Yes. I thought it was quite good.
I was being charitable. The book is semi-literate, recycled crap...
fredseaman
> On 5/29/01 10:01 AM, in article
> c22d8067.01052...@posting.google.com, "Tom"
> <Blac...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
> >> Solomon: Did you read Geoffrey's book, "Blackbird?"
> >>
> >> Fred: Yes. I thought it was quite good. He confirms the story that Yoko had
> >> a
> >> hand in having McCartney busted in Japan in 1980, which Paul denies.
> >>
> >> Giuliano: He may not even know.
> >>
> >> Fred: I think he knew long before any of our books came out. He just denies
> >> it, because he has a business relationship with Yoko to protect.
> >>
> > So Fred is calling Paul McCartney a liar?
>
> I'm sure Paul is a liar in public about a lot of things - as is every public
> figure. No one can be 100% truthful, and anyone with a lick of sense knows
> that at times it's best to set the "truth" aside anyway.
>
>
> > What does he think about
> > Jack Douglas saying that Yoko tried to help Paul in that situation?
>
> What *does* Jack Douglas say about Yoko helping Paul? I've only heard that
> he says John was upset about the bust, which goes against Fred's account in
> and of itself.
>
when the subject came up (six months after the bust) during the DF reherasal &
recording session JL waxed eloquent about Paul's dreadful Japanese misadventure, talked
about YO's heroic efforts to help Paul gain an early release, etc. In private, J&Y
sang a different tune...
>
> > I have to wonder about this ubiquitous "business relationship" excuse
> > that's trotted out by a certain group here every time Paul says
> > something that isn't critical of Yoko. If Yoko is so horrible, Paul
> > could easily form a colalition with the others and outvote her
> > consistantly. Yoko would have more to lose from a rift than Paul
> > would.
>
> The latter-day Beatles do not work like that, Tom. They work on an "all for
> one, one for all" basis. If any one has a problem with a project or issue,
> then that project does not go forward, period. This keeps coalitions from
> forming to vote any one member out. It also means there's constant
> bickering.
You're quite right. Decisions are usually made by consensus, and any one of
the four has veto power. Historically, YO & the McEastmans were always at war,
with Ringo & George cought in the middle...
> To say Paul and Yoko don't like each other is an understatement.
True. In fact, they despise each other...
wysi
bits of material over and over again? Not that I've ever purchased one,
thankfully...
wysi
"Áine ni Griobhtha" <nort...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:northcut-1BC173...@news.mindspring.com...
> In article <e10376a2.01052...@posting.google.com>,
> freds...@my-deja.com (fredseaman) wrote:
>
> > > Solomon: Did you read Geoffrey's book, "Blackbird?"
> > >
> > > Fred: Yes. I thought it was quite good.
> >
> > I was being charitable. The book is semi-literate, recycled crap...
>
>
> LOL! "Semi-literate" is an excellent way to describe Giuliano's writing
...
>
> --
> "The truth may very well be out there, but the lies are inside your head."
> - Terry Pratchett
UsurperTom
>Why? And what evidence do you have, other than a feeling that it
>sounds good?
I don't profess to have evidence and you don't either.
>Because John and Yoko
>did support Paul, Fred's account of Yoko setting up Paul was
>confirmed?
No, I said that Paul REINFORCED Fred's account.
>So none of this was witnessed by Fred, as you claimed.
Read his book and don't put words in my mouth. Fred witnessed part of the
story and Sam Green and John supplied additional details.
Tom
Tom
> > >
> > > Fred: Yeah, they're really into pot. You see, as far as John was concerned,
> > > Yoko was a powerful magician, a sorceress, and she put a spell on Paul. In
> > > fact, what she actually did was place a call to a relative who was a high
> > > official at Japanese customs.
> >
> > Wonder which version of the story Fred's telling here. It could be the
> > version where he was in the room when she made the call, which he told
> > during a radio interview a few years ago. Or it could be the version
> > he told here, after he was asked about his fluency in Japanese. In
> > that one, he heard about it from someone who was in the room.
>
> No, you're wrong again. There is no contradiction, and you are misrepresenting
> my post, as always, liar.
>
post, that would suggest that you were, but just a day ago, you said
you weren't.
> > He never explained why Yoko would make a call like that with someone
> > else in the room.
> >
> > If you're serious about his "historical research" thing, you've got to
> > be more critical about your sources.
>
> If you're interested in having any kind of serious discussion you have to be
> more honest & not pretend that you have expert knowledge when, in fact, you're
> clueless...
You first, Freddie.
Tom
> Tom wrote:
>
> >Why? And what evidence do you have, other than a feeling that it
> >sounds good?
>
> I don't profess to have evidence and you don't either.
>
based on what you like to hear.
> >Because John and Yoko
> >did support Paul, Fred's account of Yoko setting up Paul was
> >confirmed?
>
> No, I said that Paul REINFORCED Fred's account.
>
How does the fact that John and Yoko supported Paul reinforce Fred's
account?
> >So none of this was witnessed by Fred, as you claimed.
>
> Read his book and don't put words in my mouth. Fred witnessed part of the
> story and Sam Green and John supplied additional details.
Which part did Fred witness?
Mister Charlie
UsurperTom
>you don't have evidence, but you decide what's true and what isn't
>based on what you like to hear.
This is a newsgroup not a criminal trial. Asking for "proof" is a disingenuous
tactic for those who don't want to hear eyewitness testimony which doesn't
correspond with what the mythology they cling to. I don't purport to have
evidence regarding Yoko's role or lack thereof in Paul being arrested in Japan.
However, there is reason to believe the possibility that Yoko orchestrated the
arrest.
Sam Green and John Green were both in Yoko's inner circle at the time. The
former was Yoko's art dealer. Sam went to Japan and Egypt with the Lennons.
Yoko dispatched him to buy her a mummy because she believed that she was a
reincarnation of the mummy. He was the one with the connections that enabled
John and Yoko to attend Jimmy Carter's inauguration. Yoko used to send John
away on excursions so she could have affairs with Sam. She even told Sam while
John was in Bermuda that she planned to divorce John in order to marry Sam.
Yoko amended John's will to make Sam Sean's legal guardian in case something
happened to both John and Yoko. Even your friend, Elliot Mintz, has never
criticized Sam Green because he would never dare to acknowledge that Yoko had
affairs while John was still alive.
John Green was Yoko's Tarot card reader for six years. Yoko paid him $200,000
a year to give her readings. John and Yoko both knew him as "Charlie Swan."
Yoko consulted him before she made every business decision. He was the one who
put a curse on Paul for ruining her "hotel karma." John Green was a close
confidant of Yoko and would definitely know if Yoko had a hand in Paul being
arrested.
>How does the fact that John and Yoko supported Paul reinforce Fred's
>account?
>Which part did Fred witness?
Fred was told by John that "Mother and Charlie Swan" were secluded in a room
and were planning to cast a spell to prevent the McCartneys from fucking up the
Lennons' "hotel karma." Fred also says that John Eastman called the Dakota to
beg for Yoko's help in getting Paul released. Yoko was thrilled that the
McEastmans were begging for mercy.
Tom
Mister Charlie
"UsurperTom" <usurp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010530120143...@ng-ct1.aol.com...
> Tom wrote:
>
John Green was a charlatan who couldn't tarot his way out of a paper bag.
If he had the power to put a spell on someone on the other side of the globe
why couldn't he see the inevitable end rushing towards John? I'll tell you
why...because he was a phony. Just because Yoko had an interest in the
arcane arts does not indicate she had the werewithal to do anything more
than 'imagine'.
And the rest is triple hearsay. Worthless except for some Enquirer-type
speculation.
UsurperTom
>If he had the power to put a spell on someone on the other side of the globe
>why couldn't he see the inevitable end rushing towards John?
I personally don't believe in Tarot, but Yoko did. John Green and Doug
MacDougal, Yoko's bodyguard, did tell Yoko that she and John needed better
security.
Tom
Derek J. Larsson
UsurperTom wrote:
> She told John that something had to be done about it. She said she
> was going to put a spell on Paul to insure that he'd never move into that hotel
> room.
okay now .. join us back in the real world.
How could Yoko Ono influence Airport security procedures -?
Was she that "powerful" -? People don't even listen to
her records .. so why would they listen to any directions to
Airport security coming from her -?
The woman could not even get her own doctor to give her
the correct type of blood when she was giving birth to Sean
... yet we are to believe that she directed an international
airport security cabal to bust an incoming Beatle -?
Where is the chain of evidence that shows that she did -?
Secondly, the concept doesn't even fit the facts.
The pot was easily visible and not well concealed
inside Linda's own bag. Paul and Linda must have gotten
a little careless in how they did their packing ...
.. now are you suggesting Yoko Ono reached her
tremendously long arms across 2 oceans to improperly pack
Linda's personal bag (which was done most likely by herself
before she even got on the plane in-route to Japan) -?
The idea of all this is looney.....
-- Derek
======================================================
Derek J. Larsson EMail: derek_...@3com.com
======================================================
UsurperTom
>How could Yoko Ono influence Airport security procedures -?
It's pretty easy to call authorities in a given country and tell them that a
person carrying drugs is due to arrive at the airport. Arrests are made via
informants all the time.
>The woman could not even get her own doctor to give her
> the correct type of blood when she was giving birth to Sean
The only reason Yoko induced the labor was because she wanted to be born on
John's birthday in order to "inherit" John's soul. Moreover, this has nothing
to do with events in Japan.
>People don't even listen to
> her records .. so why would they listen to any directions to
> Airport security coming from her -?
You don't have to be a celebrity to turn a criminal in to law enforcement.
Derek is more paranoid than I even thought!
>The pot was easily visible and not well concealed
> inside Linda's own bag. Paul and Linda must have gotten
> a little careless in how they did their packing ...
They definitely were responsible for their fate in Japan. Nobody is disputing
that.
>now are you suggesting Yoko Ono reached her
> tremendously long arms across 2 oceans to improperly pack
> Linda's personal bag (which was done most likely by herself
> before she even got on the plane in-route to Japan) -?
Of course Linda packed the weed herself. The issue at hand is whether Yoko
ratted Paul and Linda to customs. The fact that the bags were searched
suggests the possibility that the customs agent acted on a tip. It's ironic
that Derek embraces crackpot conspiracy theories regarding John's murder and
Linda's death and then accuses others of doing the same thing when Yoko is
suspected of chicanery.
Tom
Bob Stahley
: This is a newsgroup not a criminal trial. Asking for "proof" is a disingenuous
: tactic for those who don't want to hear eyewitness testimony which doesn't
: correspond with what the mythology they cling to.
UTom's typical defense: After filling up the newsgroup with his lies and
slanders under the pretense that it's "the truth," when demands are made
that he back up his sick accusations with something more substantial than
hate-drenched opinion and wild-eyed speculation, he claims "it's just a
newsgroup, not a criminal court" or that "there are no Beatles scholars"
or some other lame excuse for not just admitting that he's just repeating
his own opinion, nothing more, nothing less, and that he _has_ no real
facts to back up his hate-obssessed opinions about others.
Just faith in his own sick "mythology."
It evidently never occurs to him that the demands for "proof" are being
made by people who don't CARE what he or anyone else thinks about Yoko or
John or anyone else, that they DON'T HAVE any investment in whether or not
Yoko did or didn't get along with her hired help or if Linda McCartney was
or wasn't misguided in her animal right activism.
We don't subscribe to any "mythology," UTom. We are, rather, sick to
death of reading about your obssessive hatred toward people you have never
met and never will meet.
Here's an idea, UTom: why don't you just move to Kingman, Arizona, go and
discuss your paranoid fantasies with the nutcases there and free the
newsgroup from your lunatic blatherings?
Like, for instance:
: However, there is reason to believe the possibility that Yoko
: orchestrated the arrest.
And, cutting to the chase, the "reason" UTom cites to hold such an absurd
belief is this:
: Fred was told by John that "Mother and Charlie Swan" were secluded in a
: room and were planning to cast a spell to prevent the McCartneys from
: fucking up the Lennons' "hotel karma."
In other words: Fred said that John said that Yoko said she was "casting
a spell" on Paul.
_This_ is UTom's "reason to believe the possibility that Yoko orchestrated
the arrest"?!?!?
Seriously, UTom: seek therapy, okay?
nowhere man
> UsurperTom <usurp...@aol.com> wrote:
> : This is a newsgroup not a criminal trial. Asking for "proof" is a disingenuous
> : tactic for those who don't want to hear eyewitness testimony which doesn't
> : correspond with what the mythology they cling to.
>
> UTom's typical defense: After filling up the newsgroup with his lies and
> slanders under the pretense that it's "the truth," when demands are made
> that he back up his sick accusations with something more substantial than
> hate-drenched opinion and wild-eyed speculation, he claims "it's just a
> newsgroup, not a criminal court"
these shadowy creatures crawl out from below rocks with their hate filled allegations
and innuendo and then claim that this is only usenet and isn't really part of the big
world.
these monsters aren't interested in truth or proof....but rather in their own sick
fascination with everything that is evil, gossipy, or underhand about the human soul.
> or that "there are no Beatles scholars"
> or some other lame excuse for not just admitting that he's just repeating
> his own opinion, nothing more, nothing less, and that he _has_ no real
> facts to back up his hate-obssessed opinions about others.
>
> Just faith in his own sick "mythology."
I can just see it now, Freddie and the Screamers Mythology 1, Mythology 2 & Mythology
3. Mythology 1 comes with a new single Smelly as a Turd, while Mythology 2 comes
with a new song called Real Hate.
Part 1 in which Freddie gets his oats.
Will
Bob Stahley
: It's pretty easy to call authorities in a given country and tell them that a
: person carrying drugs is due to arrive at the airport. Arrests are made via
: informants all the time.
Yeah, sure it is. I can just imagine the conversation:
"Hello, Japanese customs? This is Yoko Ono. I want to-- yes, I'll
hold... Hello, Japanese customs? This is Yoko Ono... Yoko Ono... John
Lennon's wife... Of the Beatles... The Beatles... Hello? Hello?"
[dials again]
"Hello, Japanese customs? I want to-- yes, I'll hold... Hello, Japanese
customs? This is Yoko Ono... Yoko Ono... John Lennon's wife... Of
the--look, that's not important, I want to warn you that someone will be
coming through customs smuggling marijuana. Yes, marijuana. Yes, I'll
hold... Hello, yes? ... Yes! ... How many pounds? No, not for sale, not
a lot, just his personal use... who? Paul McCartney... Yes, Paul
McCartney of the Beatles... Yes, the Beatles. He'll be-- hello?
Hello?"
[dials again]
"Hello, Japanese customs? I want to-- yes, I'll hold... Hello, Japanese
customs? This is Yoko-- Hello? Hello?"
[dials again]
"Hello, Japanese customs? I want to-- Hello? Hello?"
[repeat ad infinitum]
Fumika N
>> In December 1991, Geoffrey Giuliano, Fred Seaman and May Pang appeared as
>> guests on a taping of "The Shirley Show," a popular Toronto talk show. The
>> show aired on Canada's CTV the next month. The topic of that particular
show
>> was how the Beatles were flawed human beings and a wave of tell all books
were
>> now being published about the Fab Four. Fred was promoting "The Last Days
of
>> John Lennon" and Giuliano was promoting his controversial biography of
Paul,
>> "Blackbird." The show started when Fred and GG told the host, Shirley
Solomon,
>> about Yoko's role in having Paul arrested in Japan. Here is the transcript
of
>> that discussion.
>>
>>
>> Fred: Yes. I thought it was quite good.
>
> I was being charitable.
I could tell.
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Mister Charlie
off authorities on the HOPE that they would be careless?
Or maybe yoko had a confederate plant it? (Paul already admitted doing it).
Unless she made an anonymous call the authorities would not have been too
happy had the McCartney's not been carrying.
"UsurperTom" <usurp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010530144208...@ng-bg1.aol.com...
Fumika N
>John Green was a charlatan who couldn't tarot his way out of a paper bag.
There's no such thing as tarot power. The point is that John and Yoko
believed in JG's abilities (Green did, in fact, give them good advice on all
sorts of matters) and kept him in their inner circle for six years. Like it
or not, Chuck, Green's account (of Yoko's role in the bust) carries weight.
And when you add his account with Sam Green's and Fred's -- not to
mention
Yoko's general pattern of deviousness towards McCartney (consider, e.g., her
collusion with Mikey Jackson) -- you've got good reason for supposing that
Yoko arranged the bust.
Fumika N
>If he had the power to put a spell on someone on the other side of the globe
>why couldn't he see the inevitable end rushing towards John?
This is an abysmal argument, and if you give Green's book a careful
reading, you'll see that his advice for the Lennons did NOT come from his
cards.
Incidentally, Green DID advise Ono to hire security for Lennon. She
brushed it aside -- just as she brushed aside Douglas MacDougal's similar
suggestion.
Ono didn't care a whit about Lennon's well-being; she was much more
concerned with her relationship with Sam Havadtoy by that point.
UsurperTom
>Fred said that John said that Yoko said she was "casting
>a spell" on Paul.
And Sam Green later told Fred what happened behind those doors, Sobbin' Bob.
Of course you wouldn't believe these people if they had Yoko's words on tape.
Why do you even give a shit what I and others who look down upon post in this
newsgroup. Nobody is forcing you to read them.
>your obssessive hatred toward people you have never
>met and never will meet.
I have no hatred toward any of the figures that have been discussed in this
newsgroup (even though some of these people hate each other's guts. i.e. Paul
and Yoko). Who the fuck are the "we" you are referring to, Sobbin' Bob. You
don't speak for anybody except for yourself.
>free the newsgroup from your lunatic blatherings
So you consider me to be a formidable threat! I will continue to be a thorn in
your side as long as you want me to be.
Got to stop your sobbin,' Bob!
Tom
Fumika N
>Derek Larsson wrote:
>
>>How could Yoko Ono influence Airport security procedures -?
>
>It's pretty easy to call authorities in a given country and tell them that a
>person carrying drugs is due to arrive at the airport. Arrests are made via
>informants all the time.
Right. Furthermore, Sam Green says that Yoko had family connections (a
cousin) employed in customs.
>>The woman could not even get her own doctor to give her
>> the correct type of blood when she was giving birth to Sean
>
>The only reason Yoko induced the labor was because she wanted to be born on
>John's birthday in order to "inherit" John's soul. Moreover, this has
nothing
>to do with events in Japan.
As you mention, the topic of Yoko's bearing Sean is a strange
digression,
with no bearing on Macca's bust.
Personally, I don't buy the story that Ono's problems in bearing Sean
were due to Ono being given the wrong blood type. I think her own heroin
use
is a more likely culprit. (Lennon himself -- possibly Ono, too -- has
admitted that Sean was having seizures at the time of his birth -- a likely
effect of Ono's heroin use.)
Fumika N
>UsurperTom <usurp...@aol.com> wrote:
>: This is a newsgroup not a criminal trial. Asking for "proof" is a
disingenuous
>: tactic for those who don't want to hear eyewitness testimony which doesn't
>: correspond with what the mythology they cling to.
>
>UTom's typical defense: After filling up the newsgroup with his lies and
You've given no reason for supposing that Tom isn't truthful, Sobbin'
Bob. Furthermore, a person who holds -- as you purport to when playing the
New-Age guru -- that "Truth is subjective" has no business ascribing "lies
and
slanders" to others.
>when demands are made that he back up his sick accusations
The allegations aren't pretty -- but Yoko's behavior rarely is.
> with something more substantial than
>hate-drenched opinion and wild-eyed speculation,
You can't assume that, just because the sources dispute the official PR
that they are "hate-drenched," Sobbin' Bob.
> he claims "it's just a
>newsgroup, not a criminal court"
And he's right. The demand for proof on such matters as the allegation
that Yoko arranged the bust is phony.
The reasonable question to ask is whether there's sound reason for
supposing that Yoko arranged the bust. And the accounts of Fred, Sam Green,
and John Green amount to just such a firm basis for holding that Yoko
probably
did set up the bust.
Fumika N
>UsurperTom <usurp...@aol.com> wrote:
>: person carrying drugs is due to arrive at the airport. Arrests are made
via
>: informants all the time.
>
>
>"Hello, Japanese customs? This is Yoko Ono. I want to-- yes, I'll
>hold... Hello, Japanese customs? This is Yoko Ono... Yoko Ono... John
>Lennon's wife... Of the Beatles... The Beatles... Hello? Hello?"
Sobbin' Bob has a point. There probably are many Japanese who want
nothing to do with Yoko Ono, who has brought so much embarrassment to their
national honor!
Fumika N
>UsurperTom <usurp...@aol.com> wrote:
>: It's pretty easy to call authorities in a given country and tell them that
a
>: person carrying drugs is due to arrive at the airport. Arrests are made
via
>: informants all the time.
>
>Yeah, sure it is. I can just imagine the conversation:
>
>"Hello, Japanese customs? This is Yoko Ono. I want to-- yes, I'll
>hold... Hello, Japanese customs? This is Yoko Ono... Yoko Ono... John
>Lennon's wife... Of the Beatles... The Beatles... Hello? Hello?"
Nah, it'd be more like this:
Herro, Japanese customs? This is Yoko Ono. You know, the inventor of
conceptual art. Oh, come on, you must have heard of me! We are all One. I
am very famous, but in a way, everyone is, you know? We are all artists.
But
my conceptual art shows are damn successful! Did I tell you that I used to
work with John Cage? Herro? Herro?"
UsurperTom
>Yeah, sure it is. I can just imagine the conversation:
Very funny! If Yoko was related to a customs official, it wouldn't be that
difficult to get through.
Tom
Bob Stahley
: >Fred said that John said that Yoko said she was "casting
: >a spell" on Paul.
: And Sam Green later told Fred what happened behind those doors, Sobbin' Bob.
There's that astral projection thing again, UTom: How do you know, for a
fact, what Sam Green told Fred? Don't you, rather, mean to say that Fred
_said_ that Sam allegedly told him something?
UTom, you wouldn't know the difference between fact and fantasy if it bit
you on the butt.
: Of course you wouldn't believe these people if they had Yoko's words on tape.
Exactly right: Few of your so-called "sources," like Fred "I memorized
every single word, honest; wanna toke?" Seaman, could even be trusted to
accurately relate what was on such a tape.
: Why do you even give a shit what I and others who look down upon post in this
: newsgroup.
Why kick trash off the sidewalk? Because you and your hate-disguised-
as-"fact" buddies are stinking up the place, UTom.
: Nobody is forcing you to read them.
I never said anyone was.
: I have no hatred toward any of the figures that have been discussed in this
: newsgroup (even though some of these people hate each other's guts. i.e. Paul
: and Yoko).
Contradict yourself in the same sentence, why don't you? If you "have no
hatred toward any of the figures," then why do you so easily want to
beleive with such certainty that "these people hate each other's guts?"
Just because some putz in a newgroup or a tabloid rag declares it so
doesn't make it so, y'know.
Does believing that "they hate each other's guts" make it easier for
_you_ to hate?
: Who the fuck are the "we" you are referring to, Sobbin' Bob. You
: don't speak for anybody except for yourself.
At the very least, Will and Charlie have put in their two cents with at
least a general agreement with my feeings that your so-called "facts"
are nothing more than the unsupportable expression of your own opinions.
: >free the newsgroup from your lunatic blatherings
: So you consider me to be a formidable threat!
No UTom. I've never in my wildest dreams thought to use the words
"lunitic blatherings" to mean "formidable threat." I didn't know it was
even possible for someone to use the phrase "lunitic blatherings" to mean
"formidable threat."
But if "lunitic blatherings" means "formidable threat" to you, then, hey,
that's Glory for you. Just don't expect to communicate well with people
who speak English, okay?
So "lunitic blatherings" means "formidable threat" to you, does it?
Well, heck, that sure as hell explains why you find Fred Seaman credible,
doesn't it?
UsurperTom
>so then yoko, without knowing what they packed in their suitcase, would tip
off authorities on the HOPE that they would be careless?
Paul did brag to Yoko that he had "dynamite weed." Knowing Paul's reputation,
it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Paul was probably going to
bring it to Japan.
Tom
UsurperTom
>I think her own heroin use is a more likely culprit.
Also, John brought Sean to Hale House in Harlem which specializes in treating
babies born to drug addicted mothers.
Tom
UsurperTom
>Will and Charlie have put in their two cents with at
>least a general agreement with my feeings that your so-called "facts"
>are nothing more than the unsupportable expression of your own opinions.
I acknowledge that Will dislikes me. However, I'm not alone. He hates me,
Ny, Diana, Fred, Francie, Derek and Jen. On the other hand, Mister Charlie is
civil and has no personal animosity toward me. We agree to disagree on these
matters. You should follow Charlie's example.
Tom
Bob Stahley
: The reasonable question to ask is whether there's sound reason for
You may not believe this, but with this I agree.
: And the accounts of Fred, Sam Green, and John Green amount to just such
: a firm basis for holding that Yoko probably did set up the bust.
But this is where your hatred gets the best of you, Ny: Only an
blithering idiot would accept the "evidence" of "tell-all" books purposely
and pointedly sensationalized to increase sales to blithering idiots like
you, while totally dismissing any pretense to logic and reason (why in
God's name would her word hold any sway? Oh, yeah, she's got a cousin who
works for customs! Or a brother! Yeah, that's it, a brother!). You
really do think that's "sound reasoning," don't you?
Tell the truth, Ny: You're the kind who sends gifts to soap opera stars
when their characters have weddings and anniversaries, aren't you?
Bob Stahley
That's right, UTom: always revise the evidence to fit the conclusion.
Any time now, gang, I expect UTom to insist that Yoko's
cousin/brother/second-uncle-once-removed is William Campbell, the winner
of the Paul McCartney Look-Alike contest.
Fumika N
Yes indeed. Incidentally, Jesse Ed Davis says that baby Sean is a-blur
in
the pictures he took of him, so severe was Sean's shaking.
TheMutant
Bob Stahley <bo...@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:9f3vqk$6ic$2...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net...
> Fumika N <Fum...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> : The reasonable question to ask is whether there's sound reason for
> : supposing that Yoko arranged the bust.
>
> You may not believe this, but with this I agree.
>
> : And the accounts of Fred, Sam Green, and John Green amount to just such
> : a firm basis for holding that Yoko probably did set up the bust.
>
> But this is where your hatred gets the best of you, Ny: Only an
> blithering idiot would accept the "evidence" of "tell-all" books purposely
> and pointedly sensationalized to increase sales to blithering idiots like
> you, while totally dismissing any pretense to logic and reason (why in
> God's name would her word hold any sway? Oh, yeah, she's got a cousin who
> works for customs! Or a brother! Yeah, that's it, a brother!). You
> really do think that's "sound reasoning," don't you?
>
> Tell the truth, Ny: You're the kind who sends gifts to soap opera stars
> when their characters have weddings and anniversaries, aren't you?
What's wrong with that? I love Finola Hughs
Fumika N
>
>: I have no hatred toward any of the figures that have been discussed in this
>: newsgroup (even though some of these people hate each other's guts. i.e.
Paul
>: and Yoko).
>
>Contradict yourself in the same sentence, why don't you? If you "have no
>hatred toward any of the figures," then why do you so easily want to
>beleive with such certainty that "these people hate each other's guts?"
There's no contradiction there, Bob.
It's you who are hilariously inconsistent. And if you really believe
that
ascribing hatred to others is evidence of hatred (on the part of the one who
ascribes it), then I suggest you come to grips with your own hatred -- since
nobody's quicker to attribute hatred to others (i.e., those who don't buy
into
your beloved PR myths) than yourself.
Tom
> Tom wrote:
>
> >you don't have evidence, but you decide what's true and what isn't
> >based on what you like to hear.
>
> This is a newsgroup not a criminal trial. Asking for "proof" is a disingenuous
> tactic for those who don't want to hear eyewitness testimony which doesn't
> correspond with what the mythology they cling to.
Bullshit.
First of all, you are the one who goes one about historical research
in here. That requires evidence, and the evidence requires
corroborating evidence. Nothing should be taken on someone's say so if
you're serious about this. If you're just, as fred would say, wanking
around, then say so.
I don't purport to have
> evidence regarding Yoko's role or lack thereof in Paul being arrested in Japan.
> However, there is reason to believe the possibility that Yoko orchestrated the
> arrest.
>
> Sam Green and John Green were both in Yoko's inner circle at the time. The
> former was Yoko's art dealer. Sam went to Japan and Egypt with the Lennons.
> Yoko dispatched him to buy her a mummy because she believed that she was a
> reincarnation of the mummy. He was the one with the connections that enabled
> John and Yoko to attend Jimmy Carter's inauguration. Yoko used to send John
> away on excursions so she could have affairs with Sam. She even told Sam while
> John was in Bermuda that she planned to divorce John in order to marry Sam.
> Yoko amended John's will to make Sam Sean's legal guardian in case something
> happened to both John and Yoko. Even your friend, Elliot Mintz, has never
> criticized Sam Green because he would never dare to acknowledge that Yoko had
> affairs while John was still alive.
>
I have never met Elliot Mintz. I have little opinion of him beyond a
very slight distase. He doesn't even interest me enough for me to
dislike him. Are you playing the game of calling everyone who
disagrees with you a "sycophant" to discredit them? You are the same
UTom who claims that he just tries to talk about issues, but everyone
else makes it personal, aren't you?
> John Green was Yoko's Tarot card reader for six years. Yoko paid him $200,000
> a year to give her readings. John and Yoko both knew him as "Charlie Swan."
> Yoko consulted him before she made every business decision. He was the one who
> put a curse on Paul for ruining her "hotel karma." John Green was a close
> confidant of Yoko and would definitely know if Yoko had a hand in Paul being
> arrested.
>
> >How does the fact that John and Yoko supported Paul reinforce Fred's
> >account?
> >Which part did Fred witness?
>
> Fred was told by John that "Mother and Charlie Swan" were secluded in a room
> and were planning to cast a spell to prevent the McCartneys from fucking up the
> Lennons' "hotel karma." Fred also says that John Eastman called the Dakota to
> beg for Yoko's help in getting Paul released. Yoko was thrilled that the
> McEastmans were begging for mercy.
You didn't answer my question. "Fred was told by John..." is not an
answer to "Which part did Fred witness?" To witness something, he
would have to have actually seen it, and not have heard about it from
someone else.
Tom
> >The woman could not even get her own doctor to give her
> > the correct type of blood when she was giving birth to Sean
>
> The only reason Yoko induced the labor was because she wanted to be born on
> John's birthday in order to "inherit" John's soul. Moreover, this has nothing
> to do with events in Japan.
>
in the newsgroup, he was answered by several people with medical
experience who explained why this is not a tenuous theory. Yet here
you are treating it as fact.
> >now are you suggesting Yoko Ono reached her
> > tremendously long arms across 2 oceans to improperly pack
> > Linda's personal bag (which was done most likely by herself
> > before she even got on the plane in-route to Japan) -?
>
> Of course Linda packed the weed herself. The issue at hand is whether Yoko
> ratted Paul and Linda to customs. The fact that the bags were searched
> suggests the possibility that the customs agent acted on a tip.
Because customs never search arriving bags, especially not those of
people who have histories of carrying illegal substances?
It's ironic
> that Derek embraces crackpot conspiracy theories regarding John's murder and
> Linda's death and then accuses others of doing the same thing when Yoko is
> suspected of chicanery.
That doesn't mean you aren't embracing a crackpot theory.
Fumika N
>: The reasonable question to ask is whether there's sound reason for
>: supposing that Yoko arranged the bust.
>
>You may not believe this, but with this I agree.
We agree on something, then.
>: And the accounts of Fred, Sam Green, and John Green amount to just such
>: a firm basis for holding that Yoko probably did set up the bust.
>
>But this is where your hatred gets the best of you, Ny <snip>
I have no hatred for any of the people in question, Bob, and it's wrong
of you to assume otherwise. Furthermore, it's particularly funny that you
--
a person who likes to spew platitudes about the supposed unknowability of
others' mental states -- should so blithely ascribe hatred to me. Why are
you
so strangely inconsistent, Bob?
>Only an
>blithering idiot would accept the "evidence" of "tell-all" books purposely
>and pointedly sensationalized to increase sales to blithering idiots like
>you,
That's a dishonest (not to mention totally unsupported)
characterization
of my sources. Incidentally, Sam Green has not written a book.
>Tell the truth, Ny: You're the kind who sends gifts to soap opera stars
>when their characters have weddings and anniversaries, aren't you?
Do you still believe that truth is subjective, Bob?
UsurperTom
>First of all, you are the one who goes one about historical research
>in here.
That's my response to those who claim that discussions about things other than
the music should not be allowed in this newsgroup.
>Nothing should be taken on someone's say so if
>you're serious about this.
I don't expect you or anybody else to agree with my assertions. Nor should you
demand that I conform to your analytical standards.
>Are you playing the game of calling everyone who
>disagrees with you a "sycophant" to discredit them?
I didn't call you a sycophant. I was being facetious when I said "friend." If
you want to distance yourself from Mintz, that's fine with me!
>"Fred was told by John..." is not an
>answer to "Which part did Fred witness?" To witness something, he
>would have to have actually seen it, and not have heard about it from
>someone else.
You're resorting to the subjectivist fallacy. First of all, Yoko isn't being
accused of doing anything illegal. Some people here would like her better if
the story was true. You're now claiming that John and Yoko might have lied to
Fred. John and Yoko told Fred and others at the Dakota that Paul called Yoko
and told her about the dynamite weed and Yoko and her psychics were doing
something about it. The next day, Paul gets arrested and John and Yoko take an
interest in Paul's fate. That's basically what he wrote in his book. Fred
(who I can't speak for) knows some supplementary details if you ask him about
it. If this was a case brought up in court Fred would be considered a
"witness." It's up to you whether or not you want to believe Fred and the two
Greens, but don't impose your view on me!
Tom
Tom
UsurperTom
>When Fred put forth this suggestion
>in the newsgroup, he was answered by several people with medical
>experience who explained why this is not a tenuous theory.
Even in Ray Coleman's book, John told his immigration lawyer, Leon Wildes, on
October 8 that Yoko was in the hospital and that she was going to be induced in
a couple of hours. In "Lennon In America," Giuliano said that records in the
hospital indicated that Yoko checked in on October 6. John later bragged to
John Green that Sean's birthday was no coincidence.
Tom
UsurperTom
>Do you still believe that truth is subjective, Bob?
Or that you can't judge a mass murderer if you didn't meet him.
Tom
Mister Charlie
buy this threadbare premise.
"UsurperTom" <usurp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010530183115...@ng-mc1.aol.com...
Mister Charlie
> : Who the fuck are the "we" you are referring to, Sobbin' Bob. You
> : don't speak for anybody except for yourself.
>
> At the very least, Will and Charlie have put in their two cents with at
> least a general agreement with my feeings that your so-called "facts"
> are nothing more than the unsupportable expression of your own opinions.
I have stated with no question my disregard for the sources tom uses: (once
again-) seaman, green, goldman, et.al.
tom's opinions illustrate why it is so dangerous to allow these kinds of
muckrakers to influence otherwise sane adults minds. they are the ones I
blame, above anyone else.
tom is taking these 'facts' and delaring them golden, and that isn't right,
but I believe that HE believes it, so I don't see this as so egregious as
the 'authors' complicity in spreading these lies. Because Fred surely knows
much of what he passes off is untrue, he and the others are the culpable
ones...tom, I feel, like me and really all of us, is going by his 'gut'.
Gut IS good but it's not proof. When confronted with true facts one should
be able to learn from it, acknowledge it and move on rather than fight to
the death to defend an indefensible point.
Mister Charlie
:))
"UsurperTom" <usurp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010530185548...@ng-mc1.aol.com...
Mister Charlie
john and yoko, never knowing who they could trust in their employ, would
play little games...if they told only one person (fred, let's say) a story
and that story appeared somewhere, they would know who not to trust.
I have never been in their position so I don't know how likely this scenario
is, and I am purely making it up from nothing, I have no 'evidence'. In
fact it was something you said in this post that made me think of it.
I don't find it hard to believe that most celebrities HAVE to have some
secret ways of determining these things because so many get burned by their
employees. Non disclosure contracts don't mean too much in Hollywood.
"UsurperTom" <usurp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010530204616...@ng-mi1.aol.com...
Mister Charlie
"UsurperTom" <usurp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010530205210...@ng-mi1.aol.com...
Tom
> >===== Original Message From "Mister Charlie" <cc...@hotmail.com> =====> >news:20010530120143...@ng-ct1.aol.com...
>
> And when you add his account with Sam Green's and Fred's -- not to
> mention
> Yoko's general pattern of deviousness towards McCartney (consider, e.g., her
> collusion with Mikey Jackson) --
Something which only carries the weight of fact in your mind.
Tom
> newsgroup (even though some of these people hate each other's guts. i.e. Paul
> and Yoko).
And you know this how?
If you can support this statement with concrete fact and not resort to
inference, theories and guesses about "the real story" behind public
events, I will publicly admit I've misjudged you. If not, then I'll be
certain that I haven't.
Tom
If Yoko were related to a customs offical, it wouldn't be difficult to
produce that official's name and title. So far, no one's done that.
Mister Charlie
"Tom" <Blac...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:c22d8067.01053...@posting.google.com...
I believe someone DID name a name yesterday, of a cousin. Whether it's
verifiable or not I don't know.
This whole cousin thinks smacks of racism to me though...the fact that it
was Japan and You Know Who was Japanese. Seems mighty convenient.
Tom
> >in here.
>
> That's my response to those who claim that discussions about things other than
> the music should not be allowed in this newsgroup.
>
> >Nothing should be taken on someone's say so if
> >you're serious about this.
>
> I don't expect you or anybody else to agree with my assertions. Nor should you
> demand that I conform to your analytical standards.
>
putting it up for discussion. It's fair game to be criticized and
analyzed by everyone.
> >Are you playing the game of calling everyone who
> >disagrees with you a "sycophant" to discredit them?
>
> I didn't call you a sycophant. I was being facetious when I said "friend." If
> you want to distance yourself from Mintz, that's fine with me!
>
> >"Fred was told by John..." is not an
> >answer to "Which part did Fred witness?" To witness something, he
> >would have to have actually seen it, and not have heard about it from
> >someone else.
>
> You're resorting to the subjectivist fallacy. First of all, Yoko isn't being
> accused of doing anything illegal.
I don't mean witness in a court of law. I'm taking the simple
definition of "witness" as a verb. To witness something is to see it
before one's own eyes. You said there was something Fred actually saw.
I'm asking what it was. Not what he heard about from someone else.
Some people here would like her better if
> the story was true. You're now claiming that John and Yoko might have lied to
> Fred.
I never said anyone lied. I asked what Fred witnessed.
John and Yoko told Fred and others at the Dakota that Paul called
Yoko
> and told her about the dynamite weed and Yoko and her psychics were doing
> something about it. The next day, Paul gets arrested and John and Yoko take an
> interest in Paul's fate. That's basically what he wrote in his book. Fred
> (who I can't speak for) knows some supplementary details if you ask him about
> it. If this was a case brought up in court Fred would be considered a
> "witness."
That would be the role he would play in the courtroom, but he could
not legitimately say he witnessed those events.
It's up to you whether or not you want to believe Fred and the two
> Greens, but don't impose your view on me!
You don't want to discuss things? Simple solution, don't post about
them. I promise never to call your house and ask you about them.
UsurperTom
>And you know this how?
I know this from Francie. She's Yoko's friend.
Tom
UsurperTom
>To witness something is to see it before one's own eyes.
If a historical figure told you that they were planning to murder someone and
the intended victim winds up getting murdered the next day, you are a witness
to history.
Tom
UsurperTom
>If Yoko were related to a customs offical, it wouldn't be difficult to
>produce that official's name and title.
Use your head, Tom. People have hundreds of cousins. Just because Yoko told
Sam Green that her cousin runs customs doesn't mean she mentioned the
official's name and title. Yoko could help put this thing to rest if she gave
her available geneological records to one of her sympathetic biographers to
research. So far, she hasn't done that. All she did was tell Chet Flippo that
she doesn't have a cousin who is a customs agent at Narita Airport (like it
matters where the guy was stationed). Out of all the authors who tried to
debunk the Goldman book (Fricke and Ressner, Coleman), NONE of them went after
this story.
Tom
UsurperTom
>I believe someone DID name a name yesterday, of a cousin.
Hideaki Kase was a diplomat in New York. According to Goldman, Yoko referred
Paul's request for a visa to Kase.
Tom
Tom
> Tom wrote:
>
> >And you know this how?
>
> I know this from Francie. She's Yoko's friend.
I assume this is another example of your humor.
Ha, Ha, Ha. Very good.
Tom
But you're not a witness to the murder.
Tom
Hundreds? Close enough for Yoko not only to be aware of them, but to
be able to ask them for a favor?
"One of her sympathetic biographers?" How many biographies of Yoko Ono
are there? I'm only aware of the one.
Incidently, how did you become certain that Chet Flippo didn't check
out her story?
Tom
>
> Hideaki Kase was a diplomat in New York. According to Goldman, Yoko referred
> Paul's request for a visa to Kase.
and he worked in customs?
Derek J. Larsson
.... Good one .... and right on target!
Bob Stahley wrote:
> UsurperTom <usurp...@aol.com> wrote:
> : It's pretty easy to call authorities in a given country and tell them that a
> : person carrying drugs is due to arrive at the airport. Arrests are made via
> : informants all the time.
>
> Yeah, sure it is. I can just imagine the conversation:
>
> "Hello, Japanese customs? This is Yoko Ono. I want to-- yes, I'll
> hold... Hello, Japanese customs? This is Yoko Ono... Yoko Ono... John
> Lennon's wife... Of the Beatles... The Beatles... Hello? Hello?"
>
> [dials again]
>
> "Hello, Japanese customs? I want to-- yes, I'll hold... Hello, Japanese
> customs? This is Yoko Ono... Yoko Ono... John Lennon's wife... Of
> the--look, that's not important, I want to warn you that someone will be
> coming through customs smuggling marijuana. Yes, marijuana. Yes, I'll
> hold... Hello, yes? ... Yes! ... How many pounds? No, not for sale, not
> a lot, just his personal use... who? Paul McCartney... Yes, Paul
> McCartney of the Beatles... Yes, the Beatles. He'll be-- hello?
> Hello?"
>
> [dials again]
>
> "Hello, Japanese customs? I want to-- yes, I'll hold... Hello, Japanese
> customs? This is Yoko-- Hello? Hello?"
>
> [dials again]
>
> "Hello, Japanese customs? I want to-- Hello? Hello?"
>
> [repeat ad infinitum]
>
> --
> __ __
> _) _) fabo...@mindspring.com Why is a raven like a writing-desk?
> __)__) Tosa, Witzend http://www.gildasclub.org/
--
======================================================
Derek J. Larsson EMail: derek_...@3com.com
======================================================
Derek J. Larsson
UsurperTom wrote:
> >The woman could not even get her own doctor to give her
> > the correct type of blood when she was giving birth to Sean
>
> The only reason Yoko induced the labor was because she wanted to be born on
> John's birthday in order to "inherit" John's soul. Moreover, this has nothing
> to do with events in Japan.
Not accurate. Yoko had a history with miscarriages and pregnancy problems.
She was also 45 or something at the time that she was pregnant.
There were medical reasons why the c-section was performed and
encouraged by her doctors. It did work out to be John's
birthday - but the c-section would have been perfomed regardless
of what month or day the baby was ready to come out.
The point was if Yoko had no ability to influence her own
c-section procedure .. so that it was done properly - how
was she so "powerful" to direct an international cabel to
bust-up Paul and Linda (not even knowing how they may
have packed their stuff) ... it is absurd....leap....
> >People don't even listen to
> > her records .. so why would they listen to any directions to
> > Airport security coming from her -?
>
> You don't have to be a celebrity to turn a criminal in to law enforcement.
Paul & Linda were not criminals....at the time..
Just because they had some pot .. doesn't mean anyone
other than they knew they would be carrying it into the airport
inside their searchable items..
> >The pot was easily visible and not well concealed
> > inside Linda's own bag. Paul and Linda must have gotten
> > a little careless in how they did their packing ...
>
> They definitely were responsible for their fate in Japan. Nobody is disputing
> that.
> Of course Linda packed the weed herself. The issue at hand is whether Yoko
> ratted Paul and Linda to customs. The fact that the bags were searched
> suggests the possibility that the customs agent acted on a tip.
Wrong .. it suggests the customs agent did what they are paid to do
and do all the time.....perform routine bag checks .. It is not like
this was an unusual procedure.
> It's ironic
> that Derek embraces crackpot conspiracy theories regarding John's murder and
> Linda's death
I never made any statement that Linda's death was a conspiracy.
Lennon, on the other hand, was run out of the Country by
the same U.S. right-wing-political-structure that used
the tactics of domestic terrorism, intimidation, and violence
throughout the 60s and 70s (and still does). Lennon fought and won
his case on legal grounds - but only after the Nixon administration
was ultimately driven out of power by Watergate. Even then,
Lennon's status as a "national security threat" was put
"on hold" - rather than recinded. The FBI file on Lennon
is very large (and also both redacted and still not fully released).
It is not inconceivable that Lennon was targeted for
assassination as part of the range of surveillence and
"security" activities against him. We KNOW he was
targeted for a drug bust set-up from the files themselves!
We know that he had his phone tapped, he was monitored.
Chapman, who had been stationed in Japan and Hawaii military bases,
and affiliated with the Christian-right (not your typical everyday Rock fan),
and detoured his flight from Hawaii-Chicago to Georgia (to get bullets
from one of his military associates) .. may have been influenced or induced.
Lennon's return to public life by itself may have even automatically
reactivated
his "national security threat" status as a matter of protocol.
Comparing the "power" and capacity of the
U.S.-right-wing-infrastructure to that of Yoko Ono
is like comparing the power of the Television Network News
agencies to somebody's homemade lemonade stand.
The two are not comparable ...
Lennon had SERIOUS enemies!!
-- Derek
UsurperTom
>Hundreds? Close enough for Yoko not only to be aware of them, but to
>be able to ask them for a favor?
In the "Imagine" documentary, there is a picture of John, Yoko and Sean in
Japan with fifty relatives of Yoko!
>How many biographies of Yoko Ono
>are there? I'm only aware of the one.
I'm including authors who wrote works from Yoko and Mintz's point of view. Ray
Coleman never addressed this allegation in "Lennon" and David Fricke and
Jeffrey Ressner didn't touch the story in their Rolling Stone article attacking
Goldman. Furthermore, I count Flippo as a sympathetic biographer of Yoko.
>Incidently, how did you become certain that Chet Flippo didn't check
>out her story?
I read his "Yesterday-The Unauthorized Biography of Paul McCartney." When he
talked about Paul's arrest, he mentioned that he asked Yoko about the rumor.
Flippo acknowledged that Yoko is the only person who would know for certain and
paraphrased what she told him.
Tom
Áine ni Griobhtha
Larsson" <derek_...@3com.com> wrote:
>> It's ironic
>> that Derek embraces crackpot conspiracy theories regarding John's murder and
>> Linda's death
>
> I never made any statement that Linda's death was a conspiracy.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=did+mccartney+kill+his+wife%3F&hl=en&lr=&s
afe=off&rnum=1&ic=1&selm=353F7DD7.A03E22AA%403com.com
Pretty damn near close.
UsurperTom
>I assume this is another example of your humor.
It's a fact that Yoko called Paul "rotten" to Francie in September 1999.
Tom
je...@firemail.de
So you accompanied her to the dinner date? Tell us more.
UsurperTom
>So you accompanied her to the dinner date? Tell us more.
Francie has said so on this newsgroup. I could find out the exact date and
maybe even the name of the Japanese restaraunt by checking the deja archives.
Tom
JLW44
>maybe even the name of the Japanese restaraunt by checking the deja archives.
>Tom
>
Well that should 'prove' it.
Nyarlathotep
This comment of yours is muddled, Tom, but if you're trying to
suggest that I'm the only person who believes that there's a basis for
supposing that Ono arranged McCartney's Japanese marijuana bust,
you're obviously mistaken.
Nyarlathotep
> > >in here.
> >
> > That's my response to those who claim that discussions about things other than
> > the music should not be allowed in this newsgroup.
> >
> > >Nothing should be taken on someone's say so if
> > >you're serious about this.
> >
> > I don't expect you or anybody else to agree with my assertions. Nor should you
> > demand that I conform to your analytical standards.
> >
> I don't demand anything, but if you post something, then you're
> putting it up for discussion. It's fair game to be criticized and
> analyzed by everyone.
Unfortunately, Tom, you provide neither criticism or analysis.
You merely attempt to derail the conversation by spewing your
innumerable confusions at it.
Nyarlathotep
That's right, Tom. Further, in suggesting that it would be easy
to identify Ono's cousin in customs, your befuddled namesake is
spewing more BS. McCartney's bust occurred over twenty years ago.
For all we know, the cousin is retired, or even deceased. The notion
that one of us should personally identify this guy is preposterous --
it's an offshoot of the phony "Where's the proof?" rigmarole.
Nyarlathotep
> I have never met Elliot Mintz. I have little opinion of him beyond a
> very slight distase. He doesn't even interest me enough for me to
> dislike him.
That didn't stop you from spewing sophistry in defense of the
ludicrous story about Mintz donning the bulletproof vest and nailing
Ono's wannabe assailant! I'm sure you're a nice guy, Tom, but you're
also just an echo-chamber for the official fairytales.
Nyarlathotep
> Fumika wrote:
>
> >Do you still believe that truth is subjective, Bob?
>
> Or that you can't judge a mass murderer if you didn't meet him.
He won't judge a mass murderer -- yet he has no compunctions
whatsoever about judging Yoko's critics! It's amazing.
UsurperTom
>Well that should 'prove' it.
LOL!!!
Tom
Tom
You're right. I'm sure they have no records of who worked there in 1980.
Tom
Reading skills a little poor today? Or are you saying the Yoko Ono and
Michael Jackson worked together in setting up Paul McCartney?
Tom
> Tom wrote:
>
> >Hundreds? Close enough for Yoko not only to be aware of them, but to
> >be able to ask them for a favor?
>
> In the "Imagine" documentary, there is a picture of John, Yoko and Sean in
> Japan with fifty relatives of Yoko!
>
worked in customs then.
> >How many biographies of Yoko Ono
> >are there? I'm only aware of the one.
>
> I'm including authors who wrote works from Yoko and Mintz's point of view.
Ray
> Coleman never addressed this allegation in "Lennon" and David Fricke and
> Jeffrey Ressner didn't touch the story in their Rolling Stone article attacking
> Goldman. Furthermore, I count Flippo as a sympathetic biographer of Yoko.
>
Even though he didn't write a biography of Yoko?
> >Incidently, how did you become certain that Chet Flippo didn't check
> >out her story?
>
> I read his "Yesterday-The Unauthorized Biography of Paul McCartney." When he
> talked about Paul's arrest, he mentioned that he asked Yoko about the rumor.
> Flippo acknowledged that Yoko is the only person who would know for certain and
> paraphrased what she told him.
You're unclear here. Did he acknowledge that he paraphrased what she
told him or did he acknowledge that Yoko is the only person who would
know for certain?
Tom
> Tom wrote:
>
> >I assume this is another example of your humor.
>
> It's a fact that Yoko called Paul "rotten" to Francie in September 1999.
Pretty mild if the two of them hate each other.
RrichardJOLY
wrote:
> Yes indeed. Incidentally, Jesse Ed Davis says that baby Sean is a-blur
where did Jesse Ed Davis say that ?
Richard
Burp Bacharach
"Tom" <Blac...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:c22d8067.01053...@posting.google.com...
> > I read his "Yesterday-The Unauthorized Biography of Paul McCartney."
When he
> > talked about Paul's arrest, he mentioned that he asked Yoko about the
rumor.
> > Flippo acknowledged that Yoko is the only person who would know for
certain and
> > paraphrased what she told him.
>
> You're unclear here.
there and everywhere..:)
UsurperTom
>Even though he didn't write a biography of Yoko?
He wrote extensively about John and Yoko in Rolling Stone from a Mintzian
perspective. BTW you claimed in this newsgroup on October 2, 1999 that Coleman
wrote that Yoko doesn't have a cousin in customs. This isn't true.
>Did he acknowledge that he paraphrased what she told him
He DID paraphrase Yoko and no direct quotes. You'll notice that if you open
his book.
>did he acknowledge that Yoko is the only person who would
>know for certain?
Yes, Flippo included this detail in "Yesterday."
Tom
Tom
> Tom wrote:
>
> >Even though he didn't write a biography of Yoko?
>
> He wrote extensively about John and Yoko in Rolling Stone from a Mintzian
> perspective. BTW you claimed in this newsgroup on October 2, 1999 that Coleman
> wrote that Yoko doesn't have a cousin in customs. This isn't true.
>
> >Did he acknowledge that he paraphrased what she told him
>
> He DID paraphrase Yoko and no direct quotes. You'll notice that if you open
> his book.
>
So, he didn't acknowledge that he merely paraphrased what Yoko told
and did no research of his own. You're just inferring that from the
fact that there are no direct quotes.
> >did he acknowledge that Yoko is the only person who would
> >know for certain?
>
>
Could you quote the passage? I'm unclear as to whether the only thing
she could know for certain is whether she called customs or not, or if
the only thing she could know for certain is whether she has a cousin
there or not. The former makes more sense, but the latter is what
we're discussing at the moment.
UsurperTom
>he didn't acknowledge that he merely paraphrased what Yoko told
>and did no research of his own. You're just inferring that from the
>fact that there are no direct quotes.
Flippo wrote that he asked Yoko about it and she denied it. Yoko was not
quoted. This is called paraphrasing. I don't have "Yesterday" in my
possession. If anybody has the book and is willing to post the relevant
passage, it would be greatly appreciated.
Tom
je...@firemail.de
No thanks, not neccessary.
>Tom
je...@firemail.de
>Jesse wrote:
>
>>So you accompanied her to the dinner date? Tell us more.
>
>Francie has said so on this newsgroup.
So possibly it is a fact, possibly it is not. But one thing is for
sure - you don't know.
I could find out the exact date and
>maybe even the name of the Japanese restaraunt by checking the deja archives.
No need to bother, but thanks for the offer. ;-)
Nyarlathotep
> > Tom wrote:
> >
> > In the "Imagine" documentary, there is a picture of John, Yoko and Sean in
> > Japan with fifty relatives of Yoko!
> >
> so we have their names?
Tom, that's a bizarre inference even by your standards. Do you
really suppose that all pictures include the names of everyone they
depict?