Colored motors suck, don't fly them.

[Jeff Taylor]

I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a rocket
looks dumb.

I'm not here to piss on AMW. I like having more choices and I can't
wait to try some of their high performance loads, but this is rocketry
dammit, not a fireworks show!

Isn't there something in the high power code or TRA level 2 test or some
other written crap that says something to the effect of " I will not use
my high power rocket to make a spectacular display of light and
color...." ?

I realize I'm swimming against the tide here, but I want to be the first
(and probably only) person to say that colored loads suck. I can accept
blue, 'cause it is just a side effect of using copper based burn rate
modifiers, but other coloring agents are just window dressing and
actually lower the propellant's performance. Next thing ya know they'll
be putting 100 gram "ejection" charges in the motors and including a
"stabilization stick" to be duct taped to the side of the motor.

The separation of rocketry and fireworks is more important to our hobby
than the separation of church and state. Let's leave this colored crap
to the pyros and get on with the real rocketry.

- Jeff Taylor

[Richard Pitzeruse]

I guess I do not see the connection between a green flame and a 100 gram
ejection charge. One sounds like fireworks, one doesn't.

-Rich

[Kurt Kesler]

In article <3D2C4EF9...@nospam.duke.edu>, jsta...@nospam.duke.edu
says...

> I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a rocket
> looks dumb.
>

I am certainly not going to agree with you.

(and rather than turn this into a flame war I will leave it at that)

--
Kurt Kesler

[Anthony]

I do not care what color the flame is, as long as I have options they can
make any color they want. but the good thing about the green flame, it will
match my L3 rocket!!
Anthony
"Jeff Taylor" <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote in message
news:3D2C4EF9...@nospam.duke.edu...

[David Urbanek]

>On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:12:57 -0400, Jeff Taylor <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote:
>The separation of rocketry and fireworks is more important to our hobby
>than the separation of church and state. Let's leave this colored crap
>to the pyros and get on with the real rocketry.

Zealotry is so ugly. Even if I am alone in this, I have to say that
anyone who says something akin to "There's only one legitimate way of
enjoying rocketry and it's has to be my way."

Colored flame from a motor doesn't make it fireworks any more than a
spiffy paint job does. That was just an exercise in rationalization.

Some people like colored flames, some people don't. As long as some
people like it, and it poses not threat, it's fine.

Some people like fancy paint jobs, some people don't. Some people
like slow take offs. Some people like fast take offs. Some like to
go for the very biggest rocket. Some people like to make flying
traffic barrels. Some people like to make scale rockets.

So, if it's not your cup of tea, and you can stretch a rule to make it
seem <gasp> daaaangerous, it sucks and we shouldn't allow it?

[David Weinshenker]

Jeff Taylor wrote:
> Isn't there something in the high power code or TRA level 2 test or some
> other written crap that says something to the effect of " I will not use
> my high power rocket to make a spectacular display of light and
> color...." ?

The section prohibiting same has an stated, specifically allowing
"chemical additives to the propellant to produce a brightly
colored exhaust flare or dense colored smoke to aid in following
or tracking the rocket in flight."

So it sounds like propellants that produce exhaust plumes
with "distinctive visual signatures" are specifically
permitted by this section (NFPA 1127 6-1(a), Exception
No. 2), while using an HPR motor to lift something like
an airburst display firework would be excluded by the
general prohibition on using HPR motors for "spectacular
displays", as well as the restriction against payloads
intended "to be flammable or explosive or to cause harm"
(NFPA 1127 2-10.1).

-dave w

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <3D2C4EF9...@nospam.duke.edu>,
Jeff Taylor <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote:

> I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a rocket
> looks dumb.

It is the least popular colors.

But it is a fine example of green.

>
> I'm not here to piss on AMW. I like having more choices and I can't
> wait to try some of their high performance loads, but this is rocketry
> dammit, not a fireworks show!

That's what Vern said!

>
> Isn't there something in the high power code or TRA level 2 test or some
> other written crap that says something to the effect of " I will not use
> my high power rocket to make a spectacular display of light and
> color...." ?
>
> I realize I'm swimming against the tide here, but I want to be the first
> (and probably only) person to say that colored loads suck. I can accept
> blue, 'cause it is just a side effect of using copper based burn rate
> modifiers,

Besides it's not all that blue either.

> but other coloring agents are just window dressing and
> actually lower the propellant's performance. Next thing ya know they'll
> be putting 100 gram "ejection" charges in the motors and including a
> "stabilization stick" to be duct taped to the side of the motor.
>
> The separation of rocketry and fireworks is more important to our hobby
> than the separation of church and state. Let's leave this colored crap
> to the pyros and get on with the real rocketry.
>
> - Jeff Taylor
>

The only load that meets your standars is NOT TRA certrified. USR
Clearstar!

NO visible flame or smoke!

Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01ro...@gte.net>
Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish.

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <3d2c5a11...@news.surfree.com>,
urb...@surfree.com (David Urbanek) wrote:

I am pretty sure we are ALL wack!

[Alex Mericas]

FWIW, I don't think colors are dumb and I don't connect them with fireworks.
Anything to make flying more fun/interesting (and still keeping within the
safety codes) is fine with me. If they don't work well, they will not sell
well and AMW will go out of business. If they're good motors, AMW will
sell all they can make.

I wonder if they could make some 13 or 18mm long burn B or C motors
suitable for competition ;-)

Jeff Taylor wrote:
> I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a rocket
> looks dumb.

--
Alex Mericas

[Joel R]

The only load that meets your standars is NOT TRA certrified. USR
Clearstar!

NO visible flame or smoke!

Those sound cool

Joel
77267
L2

"Jerry Irvine" <01ro...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:01rocket-3A5E64...@news.bellatlantic.net...

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <aghmru$16s$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de>,
"Joel R" <jroge...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote:

> The only load that meets your standars is NOT TRA certrified. USR
> Clearstar!
>
> NO visible flame or smoke!
>
> Those sound cool

RDS demoed some at a ROC launch several years ago. Maybe someone has
photos.

[Jeff Taylor]

David Urbanek wrote:

> Zealotry is so ugly.

I may be ugly but at least I'm not boring and predictable.

> Even if I am alone in this, I have to say that
> anyone who says something akin to "There's only one legitimate way of
> enjoying rocketry and it's has to be my way."

Your not alone, your just way off. I didn't say there is only one legitimate way to
enjoy rocketry, I said," My way is the best way and you guys flying colored loads are
knobs."

> Colored flame from a motor doesn't make it fireworks any more than a
> spiffy paint job does. That was just an exercise in rationalization.

Being right doesn't make your post interesting to read or educational either. Anyone
with half a brain can spot a rationalization (and a troll) without Dave Urbanek to
point it out for them. But thanks, Dave.

> Some people like colored flames, some people don't. As long as some
> people like it, and it poses not threat, it's fine.

And some people always drive in the middle of the road, constantly posting calm
rational responses to every r.m.r topic that strolls by. Yawn. But thanks, Dave.

> Some people like fancy paint jobs, some people don't. Some people
> like slow take offs. Some people like fast take offs. Some like to
> go for the very biggest rocket. Some people like to make flying
> traffic barrels. Some people like to make scale rockets.

Yadda, yadda. Everyone's got one.... But thanks, Dave.

> So, if it's not your cup of tea, and you can stretch a rule to make it
> seem <gasp> daaaangerous, it sucks and we shouldn't allow it?

I don't think we should ban tea-drinking-colored-load-flying knobs from doing what
comes natural to them, of course. I was just encouraging the rest to stand up and
avoid the Isp sucking trap that a few got-to-have-a-colored-load-to-be-noticed knobs
have brought to rocketry.

I like AMW's business model, by the way. Take the knob's money and use it to develop
high performance propellant. Ye Ha go AMW!

- Jeff Taylor

[Jeff Taylor]

Jerry Irvine wrote:

> The only load that meets your standars is NOT TRA certrified. USR
> Clearstar!

What's a standar?

I'd call you a knob too, but at least you don't claim to make colored loads.
Yes, we all know you could if you wanted too..........Please don't.

- Jeff Taylor

[shockwaveriderz]

I think the colors are kinda........well..........gay..........

"politically incorrect" shockie......B) hahahahahahha

"Jeff Taylor" <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote in message news:3D2C4EF9...@nospam.duke.edu...

[David Weinshenker]

shockwaveriderz wrote:
> I think the colors are kinda........well..........gay..........

Well, it takes all kinds... some while back, there was a post
from someone who wanted to start a gay rocket club...

-dave w

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <aghsl...@enews2.newsguy.com>,
"shockwaveriderz" <shockwa...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I think the colors are kinda........well..........gay..........

ROFL!

>
> "politically incorrect" shockie......B) hahahahahahha
>
> "Jeff Taylor" <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote in message
> news:3D2C4EF9...@nospam.duke.edu...
> > I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a rocket
> > looks dumb.
> >

--

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <3D2C6E57...@nospam.duke.edu>,
Jeff Taylor <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote:

> Jerry Irvine wrote:
>
> > The only load that meets your standars is NOT TRA certrified. USR
> > Clearstar!
>
> What's a standar?

standards

>
> I'd call you a knob too, but at least you don't claim to make colored loads.
> Yes, we all know you could if you wanted too..........Please don't.
>
> - Jeff Taylor
>
>

Give me some feedback:

http://www.v-serv.com/usr/motors/pro.html

"Naturally there is no photo of clearstar." - :)

[RayDunakin]

<< I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a rocket
looks dumb.>>

Do you feel the same way about formulas like White Lightning? That's a color
and smoke effect too.

Personally I think a green flame looks kind of weird, but that wouldn't stop me
from flying one if I had the chance. :) Nor would it affect my opinion of
other color/effects motors.

<<I like having more choices and I can't
wait to try some of their high performance loads, but this is rocketry dammit,
not a fireworks show!>>

Merely coloring the flame doesn't make it a fireworks show.

<<I realize I'm swimming against the tide here, but I want to be the first (and
probably only) person to say that colored loads suck.>>

So just don't buy them. :)

<<Let's leave this colored crap to the pyros and get on with the real rocketry.
>>

I don't think the definition of "real rocketry" is "only clean burning
propellents".

[RayDunakin]

<< (and rather than turn this into a flame war I will leave it at that) >>

Well, a flame war is ok as long as the flame isn't colored. ;)

[Christopher Deem]

O.K., now I'm curious, how do you tell if your rockets are gay?

--
Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 2256 Level II
"David Weinshenker" <daz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D2C7D96...@earthlink.net...

[Richard Pitzeruse]

I come in here thinking people may want to see photos of AMW flights,
and get called a "knob".

Amazing.

-Rich

[Jeff Taylor]

RayDunakin wrote:

> << (and rather than turn this into a flame war I will leave it at that) >>
>
> Well, a flame war is ok as long as the flame isn't colored. ;)

ROTFLMAO!

[Fred Shecter]

I think they're super, thanks for asking!

BTW, you can always stick a colored light into one of these ULTRA COOL plastic tubes for
night launching.

How about multiple lights with different colors that alternate?

How about installing music and making a cool Disco-rocket (with polyester parachute - aka
Mylar).

Dutch auction only 99 cents each!
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=shreadvector

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

--
Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.

shockwaveriderz <shockwa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aghsl...@enews2.newsguy.com...

[Joel R]

I thought they were wicked cool ( Green flame looks MEAN )
Cant wait for the others to come out ( especially the Skidmark Squirrels )

Joel
77267
L2

"Richard Pitzeruse" <rmpi...@REMOVE.syr.edu> wrote in message
news:3D2C8BA8...@REMOVE.syr.edu...

[Rocket Dude]

On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:21:02 -0500, "Christopher Deem"
<chri...@pdnt.com> wrote:

>>O.K., now I'm curious, how do you tell if your rockets are gay?

If they don't fly straight.

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <3D2C8BA8...@REMOVE.syr.edu>,
Richard Pitzeruse <rmpi...@REMOVE.syr.edu> wrote:

> I come in here thinking people may want to see photos of AMW flights,
> and get called a "knob".
>
> Amazing.

Tongue firmly in cheek :)

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <k54piusg82pg8u83h...@4ax.com>,
Rocket Dude <ta...@northwich.net> wrote:

THIS should be in the FAQ.

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <20020710150827...@mb-cd.aol.com>,
raydu...@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

> I don't think the definition of "real rocketry" is "only clean burning
> propellents".

I do.

But then whoever said getting "real" was a feature and not a bug?

Jerry

[Jeff Taylor]

Richard Pitzeruse wrote:

> I come in here thinking people may want to see photos of AMW flights,
> and get called a "knob".
>
> Amazing.
>
> -Rich

Ray, don't take my tongue in cheek comments personally. I intended to offend, but only in
the broadest sense. You're probably not a knob and would have flown the M2240 were it
available. Right?

- Jeff Taylor

[Leonard Fehskens]

Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net> wrote in news:01rocket-
3A5E64.092...@news.bellatlantic.net:

> The only load that meets your standars is NOT TRA certrified. USR
> Clearstar!
>
> NO visible flame or smoke!

Apogee F10 comes pretty close. A hissing antigravity device.

len.

[Doug Sams]

_Rich_ wrote:

>> I come in here thinking people may want to see
>> photos of AMW flights, and get called a "knob".

Jeff wrote:

> _Ray_, don't take my tongue in cheek comments

> personally. I intended to offend, but only in
> the broadest sense. You're probably not a knob
> and would have flown the M2240 were it
> available. Right?

Probably didn't intend to call Rich Ray, either, eh :)

Doug

[Len Lekx]

On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:19:45 -0400, Jeff Taylor
<jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote:

>> Zealotry is so ugly.
>I may be ugly but at least I'm not boring and predictable.

Ummm... but if you're advocating 'regular' motors, doesn't
that MAKE you boring and predictable...? (^_^)

[Jeff Taylor]

Doug Sams wrote:

> Probably didn't intend to call Rich Ray, either, eh :)
>
> Doug

Got me there Doug.

[Buddy1]

Len Lekx wrote:

> Ummm... but if you're advocating 'regular' motors, doesn't
> that MAKE you boring and predictable...? (^_^)

Not if he's advocating the Ellis Mountain-produced Aerotech J350s...
;)

Paul

[Richard Pitzeruse]

OK, I'm confused. Am I Ray, or Rich. Am I a knob, or not a knob?! ;)

-Rich (I think)

[shockwaveriderz]

ROTFLMAO

"Rocket Dude" <ta...@northwich.net> wrote in message
news:k54piusg82pg8u83h...@4ax.com...

[Fred Shecter]

Well, I don't know about you, but I have "Rocketdar".

Tested and proven and talked about at our local rocket "apres-launch".

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=shreadvector

--
Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.

Christopher Deem <chri...@pdnt.com> wrote in message
news:agi1h1$m693r$1...@ID-32751.news.dfncis.de...

[Jeff Taylor]

Len Lekx wrote:

I guess you're right if you measure a motor by how green or pink the
flame is.

By the way, what's the (^_^) emoticon?

It looks a bit like ( | ) , which is me mooning you, but with a few
boils on your ass. If that's the case, then flame war over you win.

-JT

[Karl M.J. Kowert]

RAY CUT A FUNNY! :-)

KMJK

[Karl M.J. Kowert]

How stiff they get walking by women or men???

KMJK

[Stephen DeArman]

snip

> I wonder if they could make some 13 or 18mm long burn B or C motors
> suitable for competition ;-)

Ok, I'm in. Tell them for now I'll take a bulk pack of each, igniters
included of course. ;)

Randy

[Stephen DeArman]

snip

> It looks a bit like ( | ) , which is me mooning you, but with a few
> boils on your ass. If that's the case, then flame war over you win.

Ok! OK! STOP!

You guys are killing my wife with all the silly comments. She only started
reading rmr with me a couple of days ago and now she's been laughing so hard
she's crying. I'll never be able to convince her this is a serious hobby.
She's going to think it's just comic entertainment. :)

Randy

[Kurt Kesler]

In article <3D2C8BA8...@REMOVE.syr.edu>, rmpi...@REMOVE.syr.edu
says...

> I come in here thinking people may want to see photos of AMW flights,
> and get called a "knob".
>
> Amazing.
>
> -Rich

Thats ok, Rich. I'm a knob too! Maybe we should get some t-shirts
made?

knob club?
hob-knobblers?
knob this?
green is my kinda knob?

--
Kurt (knob) Kesler

[The Rocket Scientist]

David Weinshenker <daz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3D2C7D96...@earthlink.net>...
> shockwaveriderz wrote:
> > I think the colors are kinda........well..........gay..........
>
> Well, it takes all kinds... some while back, there was a post
> from someone who wanted to start a gay rocket club...
>
> -dave w

So he could put on a drag race, right?

[John DeMar]

Jeff Taylor wrote:
> I like AMW's business model, by the way. Take the knob's money and use it to develop
> high performance propellant. Ye Ha go AMW!

A side-affect of (some) of the colored propellants is increased performance.
Ignore the color and choose your beast based on its ISP. ;)

-John DeMar
NAR #52094

[Marty Schrader]

What color was it?
--
Marty Schrader

Up and Over...

[Eric Benner]

"Joel R" <jroge...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:agi2dn$eoc$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de...

> I thought they were wicked cool ( Green flame looks MEAN )
> Cant wait for the others to come out ( especially the Skidmark Squirrels )

I sure would like to cluster the green with a red-line on each side of it.
Clustered colors could be great.

Jeff, Did you complain like this when the red-lines were introduced?

8-)

--
Eric Benner TRA 8975
NAR 79389
(remove "freeofspam" to reply)

[John DeMar]

Christopher Deem wrote:
>
> O.K., now I'm curious, how do you tell if your rockets are gay?
>

Just keep them in your closet and no one will ever know. ;)

-john

[Eric Benner]

> Clearstar!
>
> NO visible flame or smoke!
>

> Jerry

Oh, great. Pull one out of your range box, look into the aft end and say "Is
this thing on?" and get burned in the face. "I didn't know it was burning!"

[Oliver Arend]

> Oh, great. Pull one out of your range box, look into the aft end and say
"Is
> this thing on?" and get burned in the face. "I didn't know it was
burning!"

ROFLMAO

This has become a fine thread.

Oliver

[David]

Nice firestorm, Jeff!

By the way, I'm suprised that no one has started a discussion about whether
or not we should be ignoring the fact that the green motors spew out highly
toxic barium compounds.

-- David
"Jeff Taylor" <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote in message
news:3D2C4EF9...@nospam.duke.edu...
> I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a rocket
> looks dumb.
>
> I'm not here to piss on AMW. I like having more choices and I can't
> wait to try some of their high performance loads, but this is rocketry
> dammit, not a fireworks show!
>
> Isn't there something in the high power code or TRA level 2 test or some
> other written crap that says something to the effect of " I will not use
> my high power rocket to make a spectacular display of light and
> color...." ?
>
> I realize I'm swimming against the tide here, but I want to be the first
> (and probably only) person to say that colored loads suck. I can accept
> blue, 'cause it is just a side effect of using copper based burn rate
> modifiers, but other coloring agents are just window dressing and
> actually lower the propellant's performance. Next thing ya know they'll
> be putting 100 gram "ejection" charges in the motors and including a
> "stabilization stick" to be duct taped to the side of the motor.
>
> The separation of rocketry and fireworks is more important to our hobby
> than the separation of church and state. Let's leave this colored crap
> to the pyros and get on with the real rocketry.
>
> - Jeff Taylor
>

[Jim Meyers]

They're not "colored". They're Green-Americans.

--Jim
NAR# 77786 L3/TRA# 8361 L3

[Mark A Palmer]

I personally like the thrust curve of the redline. They hit hard off the line and burn
rather short like blue thunder but have a flat thrust curve after the initial spike. Cool
motors.

Mark A Palmer
TRA 08542, L2

[Jeff Taylor]

David wrote:

> Nice firestorm, Jeff!
>
> By the way, I'm suprised that no one has started a discussion about whether
> or not we should be ignoring the fact that the green motors spew out highly
> toxic barium compounds.
>
> -- David

But I don't inhale. ;-)

- JT

[Jeff Taylor]

The Rocket Scientist wrote:

BWAH HA HA HA HA!!!! Ouch, my side hurt.

-JT

[Jeff Taylor]

Eric Benner wrote:

>
> Jeff, Did you complain like this when the red-lines were introduced?
>
> 8-)

I must have been in a better mood that day. I dumped all my Aerotech hardware
a couple of years ago and have never looked back.

- JT

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <4b1X8.91803$UT.60...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Stephen DeArman" <vernaran...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

Hey at least she is in the same room with you.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01ro...@gte.net>
Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish.

[Joel Corwith]

"RayDunakin" <raydu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020710150827...@mb-cd.aol.com...

> << I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a
rocket
> looks dumb.>>
>

> Do you feel the same way about formulas like White Lightning? That's a
color
> and smoke effect too.
>
> Personally I think a green flame looks kind of weird, but that wouldn't
stop me
> from flying one if I had the chance. :) Nor would it affect my opinion
of
> other color/effects motors.

>
> <<I like having more choices and I can't
> wait to try some of their high performance loads, but this is rocketry
dammit,
> not a fireworks show!>>
>

> Merely coloring the flame doesn't make it a fireworks show.

>
> <<I realize I'm swimming against the tide here, but I want to be the first
(and
> probably only) person to say that colored loads suck.>>
>

> So just don't buy them. :)

>
> <<Let's leave this colored crap to the pyros and get on with the real
rocketry.
> >>
>

> I don't think the definition of "real rocketry" is "only clean burning
> propellents".

NFPA1127 specifically calls on this issue. If the color is to "aid in
following or tracking the rocket in flight", then it falls under exception
2. One could argue that a color is for tracking, but producing several (and
not directly related to propulsion) colors is probably for the color, and
not tracking. Since they were certified by a AHJ, they must have been
considered as visual tracking. For the AHJ would never stray from NFPA.

Joel. phx

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <MM4X8.72$2W4....@news.uswest.net>,
"Joel Corwith" <rep...@thegroup.pls> wrote:

> NFPA1127 specifically calls on this issue. If the color is to "aid in
> following or tracking the rocket in flight", then it falls under exception
> 2. One could argue that a color is for tracking, but producing several (and
> not directly related to propulsion) colors is probably for the color, and
> not tracking. Since they were certified by a AHJ, they must have been
> considered as visual tracking. For the AHJ would never stray from NFPA.

:)

[baDBob]

Is there a don't ask, don't tell section in NFPA?

Bob

On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:21:02 -0500, "Christopher Deem"

[Len Lekx]

On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:39:23 -0400, Jeff Taylor
<jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote:

>>> Ummm... but if you're advocating 'regular' motors, doesn't
>> that MAKE you boring and predictable...? (^_^)
>I guess you're right if you measure a motor by how green or pink the
>flame is.

Actually, I don't *care* if the flame is green, pink, or
polka-dotted. This idea you seem to have that 'My way is the ONLY
way' is, IMO, grossly obscene.

>By the way, what's the (^_^) emoticon?

Here's a hint - guess what this one is... (^_-)

[Paxton]

What the heck is your problem man? You usually are very sound and
knowledgeable with anything you post on the net.

You are not making any sense now.

Pax

"Jeff Taylor" <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote in message

news:3D2C6CB1...@nospam.duke.edu...

> David Urbanek wrote:
>
> > Zealotry is so ugly.
>
> I may be ugly but at least I'm not boring and predictable.
>

> > Even if I am alone in this, I have to say that
> > anyone who says something akin to "There's only one legitimate way of
> > enjoying rocketry and it's has to be my way."
>
> Your not alone, your just way off. I didn't say there is only one
legitimate way to
> enjoy rocketry, I said," My way is the best way and you guys flying
colored loads are
> knobs."
>
> > Colored flame from a motor doesn't make it fireworks any more than a
> > spiffy paint job does. That was just an exercise in rationalization.
>
> Being right doesn't make your post interesting to read or educational
either. Anyone
> with half a brain can spot a rationalization (and a troll) without Dave
Urbanek to
> point it out for them. But thanks, Dave.
>
> > Some people like colored flames, some people don't. As long as some
> > people like it, and it poses not threat, it's fine.
>
> And some people always drive in the middle of the road, constantly posting
calm
> rational responses to every r.m.r topic that strolls by. Yawn. But
thanks, Dave.
>
> > Some people like fancy paint jobs, some people don't. Some people
> > like slow take offs. Some people like fast take offs. Some like to
> > go for the very biggest rocket. Some people like to make flying
> > traffic barrels. Some people like to make scale rockets.
>
> Yadda, yadda. Everyone's got one.... But thanks, Dave.
>
> > So, if it's not your cup of tea, and you can stretch a rule to make it
> > seem <gasp> daaaangerous, it sucks and we shouldn't allow it?
>
> I don't think we should ban tea-drinking-colored-load-flying knobs from
doing what
> comes natural to them, of course. I was just encouraging the rest to
stand up and
> avoid the Isp sucking trap that a few
got-to-have-a-colored-load-to-be-noticed knobs
> have brought to rocketry.

>
> I like AMW's business model, by the way. Take the knob's money and use it
to develop
> high performance propellant. Ye Ha go AMW!
>

> - Jeff Taylor
>
>

[Paxton]

> BWAH HA HA HA HA!!!! Ouch, my side hurt.

Enough to bring you to your senses with this "boycott colors" crap?

Pax

[Paxton]

"Jim Meyers" <j...@megapathdsl.net> wrote in message
news:uipdp9c...@corp.supernews.com...

> They're not "colored". They're Green-Americans.

Now that is funny. Good one.

Pax

[Paxton]

>"David" <da...@nomatech.com> wrote in message
news:Rn2X8.4603$Sb3.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...

> Nice firestorm, Jeff!
>
> By the way, I'm suprised that no one has started a discussion about
whether
> or not we should be ignoring the fact that the green motors spew out
highly
> toxic barium compounds.

The barium is not destroyed or converted to something else in combustion?
BTW it has never bugged people using commercial fireworks.
And, if one were to bitch about barium in APCP, why not bitch about the APCP
by itself. Inhaling APCP can create hydrochloric acid when it come in
contact with water (in the lungs). Or something to that effect. I might have
the order of it's creation wrong.

I think the general theme should be don't breath the shit no matter how hard
it makes your penis.

Pax

[Paxton]

I don't want people telling me that I can't or shouldn't fly experimental
motors, I sure as hell don't want people telling me I can't or shouldn't fly
certain commercial motors.

Here is the bottom line. If you like losing your rockets and/or going for
altitude records, don't fly effects motors.

If you want to have more entertainment type fun, fly whatever the hell you
want.

This is a hobby isn't it? If entertainment wasn't important, this would not
be a hobby.

Pax

"Jeff Taylor" <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote in message

news:3D2C4EF9...@nospam.duke.edu...

> I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a rocket
> looks dumb.
>

> I'm not here to piss on AMW. I like having more choices and I can't

> wait to try some of their high performance loads, but this is rocketry
> dammit, not a fireworks show!
>

> Isn't there something in the high power code or TRA level 2 test or some
> other written crap that says something to the effect of " I will not use
> my high power rocket to make a spectacular display of light and
> color...." ?
>

> I realize I'm swimming against the tide here, but I want to be the first

> (and probably only) person to say that colored loads suck. I can accept
> blue, 'cause it is just a side effect of using copper based burn rate
> modifiers, but other coloring agents are just window dressing and
> actually lower the propellant's performance. Next thing ya know they'll
> be putting 100 gram "ejection" charges in the motors and including a
> "stabilization stick" to be duct taped to the side of the motor.
>
> The separation of rocketry and fireworks is more important to our hobby

> than the separation of church and state. Let's leave this colored crap

> to the pyros and get on with the real rocketry.
>

> - Jeff Taylor
>

[tai fu]

You must be racist... I must report you to NAACM (North American for
Advancement of Colored Motors....)

[Kurt Kesler]

In article <MPG.17966b655...@news.newsguy.com>, nntp54
@keslers.removetosend.net says...

Wait...one more!

Got knob?

--
Kurt (groan) Kesler

[David]

Maybe you don't, but I sure wouldn't eat the beef from one of the cows at
Whitakers! :-))

-- David
"Jeff Taylor" <JTa...@nospam.nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3D2D7D33...@nospam.nc.rr.com...

[JDcluster]

Just wait for Bullwinkle Brown comes out ......Not .

JD

"Joel R" <jroge...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:agi2dn$eoc$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de...
> I thought they were wicked cool ( Green flame looks MEAN )
> Cant wait for the others to come out ( especially the Skidmark Squirrels )
>

> Joel
> 77267
> L2
>
>
> "Richard Pitzeruse" <rmpi...@REMOVE.syr.edu> wrote in message
> news:3D2C8BA8...@REMOVE.syr.edu...

> > I come in here thinking people may want to see photos of AMW flights,
> > and get called a "knob".
> >
> > Amazing.
> >
> > -Rich
> >

[Stephen DeArman]

snip

> Hey at least she is in the same room with you.

Yes and NOW, that's a good thing!

At the moment she's working out on the weight machine as I catch up on the
posts. Since this thread started she's been doing all the reading until now
but... that's ok. Nothing like a beautiful woman who likes rockets and wears
spandex. I can catch up when she's through. :)

Randy

[Mark Simpson]

"It's not easy being green"... Kermit T. Frog

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

Jeff Taylor wrote:
>
> Jerry Irvine wrote:
>
> > The only load that meets your standars is NOT TRA certrified. USR
> > Clearstar!
>
> What's a standar?
>
> I'd call you a knob too, but at least you don't claim to make colored loads.
> Yes, we all know you could if you wanted too..........Please don't.
>
> - Jeff Taylor

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <agiph8$m3gmd$1...@ID-134152.news.dfncis.de>,
"Paxton" <darks...@uswest.net> wrote:

> I don't want people telling me that I can't or shouldn't fly experimental
> motors, I sure as hell don't want people telling me I can't or shouldn't fly
> certain commercial motors.

NAR and TRA do it all the time and on an arbitrary basis too.

Jerry

[Mark Simpson]

That would be the new "rainbow" propellant that you're speaking of. ;-)

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

shockwaveriderz wrote:

>
> I think the colors are kinda........well..........gay..........
>

> "politically incorrect" shockie......B) hahahahahahha

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <agipa9$lub56$1...@ID-134152.news.dfncis.de>,
"Paxton" <darks...@uswest.net> wrote:

> >"David" <da...@nomatech.com> wrote in message
> news:Rn2X8.4603$Sb3.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > Nice firestorm, Jeff!
> >
> > By the way, I'm suprised that no one has started a discussion about
> whether
> > or not we should be ignoring the fact that the green motors spew out
> highly
> > toxic barium compounds.
>
> The barium is not destroyed or converted to something else in combustion?
> BTW it has never bugged people using commercial fireworks.

Fireworks discharge in the air. Rocket exhaust clouds concentrate near
the ground and if the site is set up properly the cloud passes over the
audience.

> And, if one were to bitch about barium in APCP, why not bitch about the APCP

Barrium is worse. Any metals consentraton that does not break down into
metal oxides is a bad thing for people, groundwater, the air and some
plants.

> by itself. Inhaling APCP can create hydrochloric acid when it come in
> contact with water (in the lungs). Or something to that effect. I might have
> the order of it's creation wrong.

It is an accute and temporary issue. Metals are cumulative and cause
deferred sicknesses.

>
> I think the general theme should be don't breath the shit no matter how hard
> it makes your penis.

I have not done a PEP on their particular propellant but in general
terms I tend to agree.

Jerry

>
> Pax

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <3D2CF162...@comcast.net>,
Mark Simpson <mark.s...@comcast.net> wrote:

> That would be the new "rainbow" propellant that you're speaking of. ;-)
>

You must be speaking of Ace Visijet that started the entire color
propellant craze to begin with, before TRA existed.

Jerry

[Mark Simpson]

David,
Have you ever had an Upper or Lower GI X-ray? If you did, you swallowed
massive amounts of barium. ;-)

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

[Mark Simpson]

I think that you're confusing Barium with Selenium. Selenium will you
you "lasting wood" not barium.

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

[Mark Simpson]

Hey, don't forget there's ABMR for stuff like that, too. >;-)

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

Stephen DeArman wrote:
>
> snip

Nothing like a beautiful woman who likes rockets and wears

> spandex. :)
>
> Randy

[Paxton]

> NAR and TRA do it all the time and on an arbitrary basis too.

All the more reason for fliers not too as well.

Pax

[Marcus Leech]

Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net> wrote in message news:<01rocket-4345CA...@news.bellatlantic.net>...
> In article <aghmru$16s$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de>,

> "Joel R" <jroge...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > The only load that meets your standars is NOT TRA certrified. USR
> > Clearstar!
> >

> > NO visible flame or smoke!
> >
> > Those sound cool
>
> RDS demoed some at a ROC launch several years ago. Maybe someone has
> photos.
>
> Jerry
You know at the recent Roc Lake V launch, I was heard to say, repeatedly
"godamn fireworks, what is rocketry coming to?" in response to various
APCP based abominations. Smokey Sams, some old APS SPITFIRE and REDEYE
motors, White Lightning, etc etc. But I'm just a grumpy 'ol
hybrid and bipropellant man myself. Last time we test-fired a
N2O/Methanol motor, there was almost *zero* visible plume--slight blue
tinge at the edges, mostly just loud, throaty roar. Now THATS rocketry!

But heck, if someone wants to stuff an APCP firework up the back end of
their projectile, and fling it skywards on a gawdy peacock plume, they're
welcome to it...

[Paxton]

"Mark Simpson" <mark.s...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3D2CF466...@comcast.net...

> I think that you're confusing Barium with Selenium. Selenium will you
> you "lasting wood" not barium.

I was referring to the general euphoric feeling some rockteers feel when
smelling propellant smoke :-)

Pax

[Stephen DeArman]

snip

> Maybe you don't, but I sure wouldn't eat the beef from one of the cows at
> Whitakers! :-))

I don't know, I like a good steak after a day of flying. My favorite is a
steak sandwich, you know, a filet between 2 Delmonico's.

Randy

[John DeMar]

And likewise expelled massive amounts. "A bad day flying rockets beats
a good day having a GI." ;)

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <agisn4$m2lc5$1...@ID-134152.news.dfncis.de>,
"Paxton" <darks...@uswest.net> wrote:

Flyers cmpose the membership and some of the management of those
organizations and look what happened anyway.

Jerry

Disaster.

[Paxton]

> Flyers cmpose the membership and some of the management of those
> organizations and look what happened anyway.
>
> Jerry
>
> Disaster.

I think that was part of the point.

[Jim Chambers]

If I store my Rockets in the closet will they turn gay ?

-------------------------------------
Jim Chambers
-------------
NAR 80299 L1
-------------------------------------
Proud Member of The Friendly American Rocket Team
-------------------------------------
People with Dyslexia have more Nuf !
-------------------------------------

[tater schuld]

"Len Lekx" <LFL...@NOSPAM.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3d2cdcc6.186873626@nntp...
> On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:39:23 -0400, Jeff Taylor
> <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote:
>
> >>> Ummm... but if you're advocating 'regular' motors, doesn't
> >> that MAKE you boring and predictable...? (^_^)
> >I guess you're right if you measure a motor by how green or pink the
> >flame is.
>
> Actually, I don't *care* if the flame is green, pink, or
> polka-dotted. This idea you seem to have that 'My way is the ONLY
> way' is, IMO, grossly obscene.

BTW, where can i get that polka dotted engine?
--
Tater
President of MARS Club
NAR #79654 - AMA #747769
remove spam spelled backwards to reply

[Jerry Irvine]

In article <129-3D2D...@storefull-2137.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
Ki...@webtv.net (Jim Chambers) wrote:

> If I store my Rockets in the closet will they turn gay ?

You can't make a rocket gay that is not already gay.

>
> -------------------------------------
> Jim Chambers
> -------------
> NAR 80299 L1
> -------------------------------------
> Proud Member of The Friendly American Rocket Team
> -------------------------------------
> People with Dyslexia have more Nuf !
> -------------------------------------
>

--

[David Erbas-White]

Nose cone at each end, or an engine mount at each end?

David Erbas-White

Christopher Deem wrote:
>
> O.K., now I'm curious, how do you tell if your rockets are gay?
>
> --
> Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 2256 Level II
> "David Weinshenker" <daz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3D2C7D96...@earthlink.net...

> > shockwaveriderz wrote:
> > > I think the colors are kinda........well..........gay..........
> >

> > Well, it takes all kinds... some while back, there was a post
> > from someone who wanted to start a gay rocket club...
> >
> > -dave w

[David Weinshenker]

tater schuld wrote:
>
> "Len Lekx" <LFL...@NOSPAM.rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:3d2cdcc6.186873626@nntp...
> > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:39:23 -0400, Jeff Taylor
> > <jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote:
> >
> > >>> Ummm... but if you're advocating 'regular' motors, doesn't
> > >> that MAKE you boring and predictable...? (^_^)
> > >I guess you're right if you measure a motor by how green or pink the
> > >flame is.
> >
> > Actually, I don't *care* if the flame is green, pink, or
> > polka-dotted. This idea you seem to have that 'My way is the ONLY
> > way' is, IMO, grossly obscene.
>
> BTW, where can i get that polka dotted engine?

I wonder if there is a propellant formula that would give
colored "edge effects" on the shock diamonds in the exhaust.

-dave w

[Gordon McGrew]

Could we call them 'motors of color,' please.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

It's a hobby. Fly whatever you want, on whatever grounds you want.

If you want to see green flame, buy them.

If you don't, buy something else.

If you're carefully trying to match the motor to the rocket, buy them
or not depending on suitability.
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair

[Oliver Arend]

> The barium is not destroyed or converted to something else in combustion?

How should it? Barium is an element, and we neither have fission nor fusion
in our motors (to my knowledge).
I don't know enough though about the various compounds Barium comes in, and
whether they are toxic or non-toxic.

Oliver

[Lew Garrow]

>Subject: Re: Colored motors suck, don't fly them.
>From: "Jim Meyers" j...@megapathdsl.net
>Date: 7/10/2002 6:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <uipdp9c...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>They're not "colored". They're Green-Americans.
>
>--Jim
>NAR# 77786 L3/TRA# 8361 L3
>

so the other motors are 'pigment challenged' ?

8^O
Lew Garrow
METRA VP
TRA L3
NAR L3
NAR L3CC

[Lew Garrow]

>Subject: Re: Colored motors suck, don't fly them.

>From: gmc...@mindspring.com (Gordon McGrew)

>
>Could we call them 'motors of color,' please.
>
>

sure, next they'll need their own launch - Kwan-balls !

[Mark Simpson]

Sorry, I was taking your comment literally. Selenium has been known
to cause quite a bit of "lasting discomfort", shall we say, amongst
researchers using in in the lab. ;-)
It is toxic at relatively low concentrations, IIRC, so it isn't a
substitute for Viagra.

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

"Paxton" <darks...@uswest.net> wrote in message news:<agissa$m5sla$1...@ID-134152.news.dfncis.de>...

[Richard Pitzeruse]

ROFLMAO....we can wear them to the Freedom Launch when I launch my Green
Gorilla K motor! ;)
-Rich

Kurt Kesler wrote:
>
> In article <MPG.17966b655...@news.newsguy.com>, nntp54
> @keslers.removetosend.net says...
> > In article <3D2C8BA8...@REMOVE.syr.edu>, rmpi...@REMOVE.syr.edu
> > says...
> > > I come in here thinking people may want to see photos of AMW flights,
> > > and get called a "knob".
> > >
> > > Amazing.
> > >
> > > -Rich
> >
> > Thats ok, Rich. I'm a knob too! Maybe we should get some t-shirts
> > made?
> >
> > knob club?
> > hob-knobblers?
> > knob this?
> > green is my kinda knob?
> >
> > --
> > Kurt (knob) Kesler
> >
> Wait...one more!
>
> Got knob?
>
> --
> Kurt (groan) Kesler

[Hilty Information Systems]

On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:12:57 -0400, Jeff Taylor
<jsta...@nospam.duke.edu> wrote:

>I guess I'm the only one who thinks a green flame coming out of a rocket
>looks dumb.

Eeesh! I stop reading RMR for two frickin' days, and look what
happens...

<g>

Somebody should let NASA know they're making a PR foe paw[1]...

Orange SRB's, blue SSME's... just what the hell do they think they're
doing?!

Then, there's that "politically incorrect" Titan II smoke...

Jeez... just look what rocketry is coming too...

<vbg>

tah

[1] (C) Jerry Irvine, all rights reserved.

Tod A. Hilty NAR #72099
Hilty Information Systems

- replace ihrUnterhose with adelphia for reply
--
Member MTMA, NAR Section #606

Mantua Township Missile Agency
http://web.raex.com/~markndeb/rockets/mtma/

"I'm going to put the wheels of the bus back on... just in case"
- BlankReg, Max Headroom: 20 Minutes Into the Future

"I speak for myself _and_ my corporation! Deal with it!"
- blankreg

[Kurt Kesler]

In article <3D2D8522...@REMOVE.syr.edu>, rmpi...@REMOVE.syr.edu
says...

> ROFLMAO....we can wear them to the Freedom Launch when I launch my Green
> Gorilla K motor! ;)
> -Rich
>

I think Jeff launches at Orangeburg as well. Maybe we should make him a
shirt too?

--
Kurt Kesler