Irish chiefs update: wills and DNA
Sean J Murphy
Copies of two wills of Frederick J O'Carroll, claimant to the O Carroll
chiefship who died in January 2010, have been placed online at
http://www.clancian-carroll.com/ Frederick appears to have disinherited
his heir and namesake Frederick junior, sacked him as 'Clan Tanaiste'
and devolved authority to Liam (Bill) Fitzpatrick, 'Senior Chieftain'.
Farcical indeed, but remember that Irish Chief Herald Begley recognised
O'Carroll as a chief back in 1993, one of a number of questionable if
not corrupt decisions which remain uncorrected in the Chief Herald's
records. As I indicated here earlier, the new Chief Herald has stated
that she has no plans to deal with this problem, and I will continue to
press for a proper audit of the records of the office.
Now that the Chief Herald's Office has washed its hands of involvement
in recogntion of chiefs, I notice that DNA analysis is increasingly
being used as a method of 'proving' claims to chiefship. While not in a
position to criticise the science, I have had cause to question the
geneticists' grasp of history and genealogy (probably heraldry also),
eg, the claim to have proved the existence of and traced the descendants
of the probably legendary figure Niall of the Nine Hostages. I see now
that a face from the past has a webpage on the Family Tree DNA website,
in which he argues his case from historical documents and genetic
evidence, signing himself as 'The O'Cahan':
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/keaneYDNAwebsite/default.aspx?section=results
Sean Murphy
Irish Chiefswatch
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/chiefswatch.htm
Hovite
> eg, the claim to have proved the existence of and traced the descendants
> of the probably legendary figure Niall of the Nine Hostages.
Indeed.
In all probability he was a god, later converted into a king. The name
O'Neil probably derives from a tribal name meaning something like
"worshippers of the god Neblos".
Irish nel (cloud) is cognate with Latin nebula, and Slavic nebo
(heaven).
Other Irish surnames have similar concealed pagan origins.
Sean J Murphy
Interesting theory as to the origin of Niall of the Nine Hostages, one
of those figures commonly inserted in the pedigrees of rising northern
Gaelic septs. Indeed it would appear that much of the earlier strata of
the Gaelic genealogies feature mythical personages, and in some cases
these can be clearly related to gods of the pagan era, eg, Lugh. I am
still on a learning curve here myself, but think that it is time to
start challenging geneticists' PR guff such as the following:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8600-medieval-irish-warlord-boasts-three-million-descendants.html
An heraldically relevant point is that incorporation of the O'Neill's
red hand in coats arms of other Gaelic families is not necessarily
evidence of a genealogical connection, but can be the counterpart of
fabricated pedigrees.
Sean Murphy
Sean J Murphy
in University College Dublin has decoded the first Irish genome:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0907/1224278366129.html
It is noted that 'while the capacity to generate the sequence data is
proceeding at pace, the rate at which the data can be reliably
interpreted has lagged behind'. In time DNA analysis will be an
established part of genealogical research, but at present we are still
in a period of development, and exaggerated claims about descent from
mythical figures, kings or chiefs merely bring the science into
disrepute. One can think of a relevant heraldic use of DNA analysis,
namely, establishing probable degrees of relationship between families
with the same or similar arms, where suitable genetic material is
available for testing of course.
Sean Murphy
jetlounge smith
And this genome means - what . . . exactly
Andrew Chaplin
news:b503c243-0af0-4abc...@k1g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
> And this genome means - what . . . exactly
Some of us are truly bastards.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
Sean J Murphy
Let's take a quick tutorial from
http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/project/about.shtml:
'# A genome is all the DNA in an organism, including its genes. Genes
carry information for making all the proteins required by all organisms.
These proteins determine, among other things, how the organism looks,
how well its body metabolizes food or fights infection, and sometimes
even how it behaves.
# DNA is made up of four similar chemicals (called bases and abbreviated
A, T, C, and G) that are repeated millions or billions of times
throughout a genome. The human genome, for example, has 3 billion pairs
of bases.
# The particular order of As, Ts, Cs, and Gs is extremely important. The
order underlies all of life's diversity, even dictating whether an
organism is human or another species such as yeast, rice, or fruit fly,
all of which have their own genomes and are themselves the focus of
genome projects. Because all organisms are related through similarities
in DNA sequences, insights gained from nonhuman genomes often lead to
new knowledge about human biology.'
(End quote)
The Human Genome Project, a multinational effort completed in 2003,
mapped the entire human genetic code for the first time, opening the way
for applications (good and bad as is usual with science) in the areas of
health, food, energy, environment and of course tracing human origins.
At present genetic science is still in a developing state, and I was
cautioning against some of the more exaggerated claims being made in the
sphere of genetic genealogy, eg, claiming to have identified descendants
of the mythical or quasi-mythical Niall of the Nine Hostages.
Sean Murphy
Joseph McMillan
> I was
> cautioning against some of the more exaggerated claims being made in the
> sphere of genetic genealogy, eg, claiming to have identified descendants
> of the mythical or quasi-mythical Niall of the Nine Hostages.
>
But wouldn't it be fascinating if it turned out that the Irish and
Scottish clans/septs/families that claim to descend from Niall
actually do share a common ancestor circa AD 360?
(Not that I'd count on it.)
Joseph McMillan
Sean J Murphy
I see that someone has added the following critical note to the
Wikipedia article on Niall at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages:
'In January 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that
Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. The findings
of the study showed that within the north-west of Ireland as many as 21%
of men (8% in the general male population) were concluded to have a
common male-line ancestor who lived roughly 1,700 years ago. The
geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today
who descend in the male-line from Niall. However, more recently some
reservations have been expressed, as the subclade, which is defined by
the presence of the marker R-M222, is found in a belt from Northern
Ireland across southern Scotland and is not exclusively associated with
the Uí Néill. It is now more commonly referred to as the Northwest
Irish/Lowland Scots variety.'
The following reference is given:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b1c7/default.aspx
Sean Murphy
Sean J Murphy
in which he defends the general historicity of the pedigrees in volume 3
of Skene's 'Celtic Scotland', many of which lead back to Irish figures
including Niall of the Nine Hostages (copy online at
http://clanmaclochlainn.com/sellar.htm). John D McLaughlin criticises
Sellar for paying insufficient attention to the likelihood of
fabrication, in particular one lineage 'designed to provide a suitable
pedigree for the Scottish gallowglass family of MacSweeney who settled
in Donegal in the early years of the 14th century' (copy also online at
http://clanmaclochlainn.com/sellar2.htm).
Sean Murphy