Owner attacked Crystal River Fl (Flimflam?)
10mm...@my-deja.com
about a pawn/gun shop owner in crystal river that was attacked by two
customers, with at least one welding a machete. Said that the owner was
able to shoot one of the bad guys but suffered some pretty bad injuries
in the attack. Does anyone here know if that could have been Flim Flam?
He used to post here regularly.
Gary Kellems
Brandon Florida
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can learn about rec.guns at http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/rec.guns
JTWard01
http://www.sptimes.com/News/092700/Citrus/Gun_purchase_turns_in.shtml
John T. Ward
Brandon, Florida
USA
"Gun control is hitting what I aim at."
Arthur Davis
came in to receive a .357 mag pistol that he bought with a sheathed samuri
sword and evidently stabbed the Pawn shop owner, Dave Phillips in the chest
before Dave head-shot the perp. I think Dave is the FLIM FLAM man, but am
not sure. Art.
10mm...@my-deja.com wrote:
> ...
arn_werks
A many of you probably did, I just emailed FlimFlam and asked
him to let me AND the rec.guns family how he was doing.
May God have Mercy on the injured man and let us hope that it
was not our friend who was hurt.
Red Bell
John E. Castasus
<arn_...@mindspring.com> wrote:
# Group:
# A many of you probably did, I just emailed FlimFlam and asked
# him to let me AND the rec.guns family how he was doing.
# May God have Mercy on the injured man and let us hope that it
# was not our friend who was hurt.
Let's hope for a quick recovery for Dave.
And a one-way ticket into the inferno for the goblin.
--
Cordially,
John E. Castasus
Rich Zuchowski
Yes, unfortunately this is the case.
I think this link will work to get to the story in a local paper.
Apparently Dave (Flimflam) is in critical condition at a Tampa hospital
with a stab wound to the chest.
http://www.crayon.net/read.cgi?c=1
--
Rich Z.
arn_werks
Indeed, Dave Phillips is the name that Flim Flam used when we
talked about buying land here in Georgia amd Alabama.
Please say a prayer for him tonight.
Thank you, and may God have mercy on us all,
Red Bell
arn_werks
Thank you for the reference, disheartening as it is.
God Bless you and yours
JTWard01
don't know about you, but this "customer" sure doesn't seem to be the type of
person I'd like to see running around town with a .357mag. (Stabbing people
with a sword does not, to me, indicate great mental stability). He could be a
poster child for Handgun Control Inc., yet the pawn shop owner apparently did
everything required of him under the law before selling the gun to this guy.
What, if any, other procedures should be in place to prevent other closet
crazies like this from having easy access to firearms?
John T. Ward
Brandon, Florida
USA
"Gun control is hitting what I aim at."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Anderson
communicated via email with him many times and just checked my email: his
return address indicates "J. David Phillips". Unless there are _two_ pawn
shop owners in Crystal River, FL with the same name, our friend is hurt.
May God watch over him and heal him quickly and completely.
Clark Magnuson
I sent it to Crystal River Florida.
It was to a pawn shop.
His check was good. I hope he is OK.
Clark
fl...@alaska.net
#... the Pawn shop owner, Dave Phillips in the chest
# before Dave head-shot the perp. I think Dave is the FLIM FLAM
# man, but am not sure.
Dave last e-mailed me a week or so ago - J. David Phillips. He has
not answered any of my e-mails today. I'm worried!!! :^(
Jay T
FullAuto
# For more on this story, check out the St. Pete Times at:
#
#http://www.sptimes.com/News/092700/Citrus/Gun_purchase_turns_in.shtml
#
#John T. Ward
#Brandon, Florida
#USA
#"Gun control is hitting what I aim at."
Not to detract from a man's horrible situation, but you'd think
someone that reads this group would know to use something a little
bigger than a .25. But, it was better than nothing, and saved his
life.
Get well soon, Dave.
rb...@my-deja.com
Arthur Davis <arte...@hitter.net> wrote:
# I live near Crystal River and our paper said there was only one guy
that
# came in to receive a .357 mag pistol that he bought with a sheathed
samuri
# sword and evidently stabbed the Pawn shop owner, Dave Phillips in the
chest
# before Dave head-shot the perp. I think Dave is the FLIM FLAM man,
but am
# not sure.
Hmmmmm. Makes you wonder where Plus P was last week..... While not
wishing any ill fortune on Flimflam, its too bad he had to retreat
to a rear room, and that all he could recover to shoot the bad guy
was a .25 auto. Bet he wishes he had one of the Pythons he normally
bad mouths, or even one of the Glocks he raves about constantly.
Dick Burg
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Zuchowski
wound. Dave (Flimflam) has been upgraded to fair condition. Maybe
there is a God after all.
--
Rich Z
Robert S. Fourney
pawn shop in Flimflam's sig. Hopefully he'll soon be recovered to the
point where you guys can tease him about using a .25 ....
Bob
--
threef...@earthlink.net
pawn shop owner in FL really should be better prepaired not only with
something better than a .25 auto but he should have it on his person
and not have to run to the back room to get it. my .02
On 27 Sep 2000 08:00:44 -0400, 10mm...@my-deja.com wrote:
> ...
Louis J.M
(FullAuto) wrote:
# Not to detract from a man's horrible situation, but you'd think
# someone that reads this group would know to use something a little
# bigger than a .25. But, it was better than nothing, and saved his
# life. Get well soon, Dave.
I don't know what he was thinking, but a 25.acp is the last thing I'd
ever depend on. Even a derringer would have been a better choice than
a 25.acp pocket pistol.
Why on earth would he depend on something like that?
Note: I'm sure Flimflam did his part and then some; you'd be very
suprised how fast someone can close a 20 foot distance from you
with a sword, and from what I can tell he was suprised!
.-~~-.____ Louis J.M
/ | ' \
( ) O _
\_/-, ,----' // E-Mail: Loui...@Earthlink.net
==== ___// WWW : Coming Soon!
/ \-'~; /~~~(O)----------------------------------------------------
/ __/~| __/ | "A sense of decency is often a decent man's undoing."
==(______| (_________| - Unknown
P.A. Harrington
wrote:
#The injured pawn shop owner, Dave Phillips, _is_ our friend FlimFlam! I've
#communicated via email with him many times and just checked my email: his
#return address indicates "J. David Phillips". Unless there are _two_ pawn
#shop owners in Crystal River, FL with the same name, our friend is hurt.
#
#May God watch over him and heal him quickly and completely.
#From an old post:
Flimflam
A-1 Pawn & Jewelry
1925 S.E. Hwy 19
Crystal River, Fl. 34429
352-795-2777
Fax# 352-795-2093
flim...@xtalwind.net
Tried calling the number - no answer.
..P
Thomas M. Reynolds
the hell were you doing defending a store like that with a .25 cal gun?" I
guess it explains why the perp, having been shot "at least once" in the
head, is still alive. On the other hand, I assume he would be dead and the
perp would have walked away if he didn't have even a little gun like that.
Better a tiny gun than no gun when someone is hacking you with a sword.
Richard I Landon
--
Flimflam
A-1 Pawn & Jewelry
1925 S.E. Hwy 19
Crystal River, Fl. 34429
352-795-2777
Fax# 352-795-2093
flim...@xtalwind.net
YES it is Flimflam
On 27 Sep 2000 08:00:44 -0400, 10mm...@my-deja.com wrote:
> ...
|]}439 Misfortune: The kind of fortune that never misses.
Mulroymedia
wishing any ill fortune on Flimflam, its too bad he had to retreat
to a rear room, and that all he could recover to shoot the bad guy
was a .25 auto. Bet he wishes he had one of the Pythons he normally
bad mouths, or even one of the Glocks he raves about constantly.
Dick Burg
#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was booked solid for classes. I saw this and was surprised like everyone and
wish him a total and fast recovery.
Dave had problems admitting he could be had as most of us do and will. We are
all vulnerable and when the problem is in our face it isn't like a gun
magazine. No stances, no flash sight pictures, just flat our animalistic
survival. I'm surprised at the use of a .25 acp, but it worked. All guns are
lethal, but it took the thug a long time to die (good) and the .25 doesn't
appear to have been immedietly effective which is also expected.
Pawn shops are high risk. That is why even considering a .25 acp isn't very
wise, as Dave found out. My only words to Dave is to hurry back, share your
experience, and tell us what you did RIGHT and what you did WRONG. We will all
learn from that. I'm sure he will be the first to tell us what he did wrong and
will try to change in the future. Only a fool would say they did everything
right. The real world doesn't work that way. Such situations are never fair
nor a sporting event. It is dirty and fast at close range. I've always said
that, always will, and Dave probably will also.
Hope it works out for him with few or NO complications.
William & Nancy Harrison
midsection,so we chastise him for using a 25 cal. pistol.(by the way ,
did the job.) When were you last stabbed and what did you do?
Our prayers are with you "Flimflam"! Bill
NIC (THE SHOOTIST)
<rb...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8r176e$p3o$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
# Hmmmmm. Makes you wonder where Plus P was last week..... While not
# wishing any ill fortune on Flimflam, its too bad he had to retreat
# to a rear room, and that all he could recover to shoot the bad guy
# was a .25 auto. Bet he wishes he had one of the Pythons he normally
# bad mouths, or even one of the Glocks he raves about constantly.
# Dick Burg
Your sympathy and concern for one of our own is overwhelming!!
NIC
GUNS CAUSE CRIME THE SAME WAY PENS CAUSE BAD SPELLING!!!!!
GUNS CAUSE CRIME THE SAME WAY TIGHT FITTING LEVIS CAUSE RAPE!!!!!
ste...@webtv.net
be the last person to critisize someone for their choice of weapons in
the case of someone wanting to cause you bodily harm , without any
logical reason.Hindsight is always 20/20 and you did the right thing.
Arthur Davis
condition but was he was expected to be moved out of ICU late yesterday.
He's in St Joseph's Hospital in Tampa, FL. It was reported earlier that his
attacker expired Wednesday. The only issue remaining is that the
prosecutors haven't made a decision on whether Dave will face any charges.
keep praying. Art.
Rich Zuchowski
"Louis J.M" wrote:
#
# I don't know what he was thinking, but a 25.acp is the last thing I'd
# ever depend on. Even a derringer would have been a better choice than
# a 25.acp pocket pistol.
#
# Why on earth would he depend on something like that?
#
# Note: I'm sure Flimflam did his part and then some; you'd be very
# suprised how fast someone can close a 20 foot distance from you
# with a sword, and from what I can tell he was suprised!
Hmm, I've been do Dave's place and it's curious that he retreated to the
back room before retrieving a firearm. That leads me to believe that
the .25 was not his first choice, but instead was one he had in the back
for some other reason other than protection of the store. Dave is
ex-LEO and has a wall full of trophies from shooting competitions, so
I'm certain the .25 was the only implement he happened to have at hand
at the time. Possibly his closing the door and locking it behind him
was to even give him time to load the weapon. Possibly he was a victim
of Murphy's law. You know, the ONE day you leave your carry piece
sitting on the dresser and everything else is locked up in the vault
because you were planning on cutting out at lunch time. The ONLY thing
at hand could have been someone's .25 that was brought in within the
last hour and just stuck in the back room. Next time I see him, I fully
expect to see him packing no less than 5 Glocks at all times.
In any event, I'm positive that the .25 was just what was at hand at the
moment and not what his first choice would have been. Dave knows better
than that. But when someone is swinging a sword at you, you're not
going to pass by the first thing you can grab trying to find something
better.
--
Rich Z.
RSLiles
Harrison) writes:
#
#Come on people !! our friend has been seriously wounded , stab wound to
#midsection,so we chastise him for using a 25 cal. pistol.(by the way ,
#did the job.) When were you last stabbed and what did you do?
#Our prayers are with you "Flimflam"! Bill
#
#
Flimflam, the only gun in my collection to actually save a life is also a
.25acp. God speed on your recovery. (Fortunately, I didn't have to fire
mine.)
Bob
User7902
with you grab the first gun you can
JTWard01
also urge you not to tease him about it, or to criticize him openly. Dave has
just been through one of the most traumatic experiences possible - fighting for
his own life, and the taking of another human life. Please show some
sensitivity.
John T. Ward
Brandon, Florida
USA
"Gun control is hitting what I aim at."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
TimWat...@yahoo.com
--Tim
Bill Klien
<trey...@erols.com> wrote:
#Assuming (and hoping) he recovers, my first question to him will be "What
#the hell were you doing defending a store like that with a .25 cal gun?" I
#guess it explains why the perp, having been shot "at least once" in the
#head, is still alive.
A couple days ago, he had one foot in the grave and the other foot on
a banana peel, but as of 9/27/2000 he's pushing up daisies, as he
should be.
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGAN6IPOODC.html
Pete Keorber
#Hmmmmm. Makes you wonder where Plus P was last week
He's probably trying to get some pictures.
Louis J.M
# Come on people !! our friend has been seriously wounded , stab wound to
# midsection,so we chastise him for using a 25 cal. pistol.(by the way ,
# did the job.) When were you last stabbed and what did you do?
# Our prayers are with you "Flimflam"! Bill
Well if this was a Samurai sword; the blade is about 70.mm in width, even
if its a shallow wound you're still in big trouble. Unlike folding knives,
It takes very little force to cut through soft objects with these blades.
Samurai/Katana swords may be sold as novelty items or for martial arts
demonstrations, but they are tools designed for a single purpose.
Fighting. Or more accurately, killing your opponent.
What would I do if I was stabbed with one? Panic.
.-~~-.____ Louis J.M
/ | ' \
( ) O _
\_/-, ,----' // E-Mail: Loui...@Earthlink.net
==== ___// WWW : Coming Soon!
/ \-'~; /~~~(O)----------------------------------------------------
/ __/~| __/ | "You do not see the world as it is; you see it as
==(______| (_________| you are." - Talmud
Louis J.M
# Our'er prayers are with you and here's to a complete recovery. I would
# be the last person to critisize someone for their choice of weapons in
# the case of someone wanting to cause you bodily harm , without any
# logical reason.Hindsight is always 20/20 and you did the right thing.
In Flimflam's case it certainly wasn't. First of all you wouldn't think
someone like Flimflam would have just a 25.acp in his store.
Regardless how the situation turned out, a 25.ACP pocket pistol is by
no stretch of the imagination a fighting cartridge. He should consider
himself lucky.
Inevitably someone is going to ask him when he gets back on here why
that was the only gun he had in his store. It'll be interesting to
hear his explanation.
.-~~-.____ Louis J.M
/ | ' \
( ) O _ E-Mail: Loui...@Earthlink.net
\_/-, ,----' // WWW : Coming Soon!
==== ___// ----------------------------------------------------
/ \-'~; /~~~(O) "Englishmen never will be slaves: they are free to do
/ __/~| __/ | whatever the Government and public opinion allow them
==(______| (_________| to do." - George Bernard Shaw
rb...@my-deja.com
"NIC (THE SHOOTIST)" <d...@cloudnet.com> wrote:
# Your sympathy and concern for one of our own is overwhelming!!
Sorry if you or anyone took offense. Mulroymedia understood the
humor and sarcasm and took it well. Please read his posting.
Flimflam is an in your face kind of poster. I'm sure he'd
understand too.
Cal
Thomas M. Reynolds
# wound. Dave (Flimflam) has been upgraded to fair condition. Maybe
# there is a God after all.
The best part of the story in a way is the reason for the fight. Talk about
responsible gun sellers. THe man had cleared the background check and all
and returned to pick up the gun, but Dave refused to complete the
transaction because of his strange behavior. Obviously, this is no way to
make money, but it is good citizenship and also obviously, he was bang on
correct. The man says he is a ninja, gets the sword from the car and almost
succeeds in hacking Dave to death, thus proving Dave's point about the guy.
He gets my vote for good, responsible, citizen and gun seller. And since
the perp no longer needs the .357, I recommend we all suggest to Dave he
keep it for himself...on his hip...loaded...with a speed loader in his
pocket....two speed loaders perhaps....
Lshark
A head shot killed him. Would you rather fire 6 rounds that miss in .357
Mag or one in .25 that killed him?
(just playing hte devil's advocate on this one)..
Lshark......
(My carry is limited to a .357 Mag and .45 ACP.)
R.M.R.
ran ( 5 am ) on the news I heard it and remember thinking when they said
the owner shot the scum bag,Good for him, The second morning it was on
again and yes,I did think of Flim Flam and said na,couldn't be.When I
saw this I nearly shit...What a bummer.I only live 5 minuets from St
Joseph Hospital so tomorrow I may see what his condition is.Someone
posted the scumbag died but I didn't hear that yet on the news.If I can
get in to see Dave I'll be sure to pass on everyone's best wishes.This
is sad.....
Ray,Tampa,Fl.
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum)
Pro...@webtv.net
(Flim Flam), alright. I suppose that in that instant trauma situation
he grabbed the .25 because it was the one he came across first. Not
much time to pick & choose. Don't know that I'd be thinking too calmly
about the stopping power potential of the .25 after just being run
through with a sword.
I hope and pray he's up and about soon. He's to be commended for
decreasing the slimebag count by one. God bless you, J.D.
Mike R.
Max
I can't believe the group is arguing about what gun he used. The man is
lying in
the hospital in ICU and he is lucky to be alive. If it was a sling shot that
saved
his life I would be happy. Our prayers should be going out to him. Anyway,
last I heard the BG was dead. So there was some justice. I am sure the first
thing
he will be doing when he recovers (please) and goes back to work will be
packing
some serious fire power. Till then let's not all ridicule the gun that saved
his life.
__MaxHax__
Nick
writes:
#The only issue remaining is that the
#prosecutors haven't made a decision on whether Dave will face any charges.
#keep praying. Art.
#
You're kidding? Unless the prosecutors want to go through, and be on the
receiving end of, a real-life re-enactment of the pitchfork-and-torch mob scene
from "Frankenstein" I would suggest they not even think of charges, and go
after criminals who fit the definition instead of harassing the innocent. But
then, you know what the bumper sticker says--"99% Of Lawyers Give The Rest A
Bad Name". This is central Florida, so FlimFlam has nothing to worry about,
other than getting well.
Nick
(gathering pitchforks, torches, tar, and feathers--just in case)
Praemiando Incitat
rb...@my-deja.com
jtwa...@aol.com (JTWard01) wrote:
# While I agree that the choice of a .25ACP was probably not the
wisest, I'd
# also urge you not to tease him about it, or to criticize him openly.
Dave has
# just been through one of the most traumatic experiences possible -
fighting for
# his own life, and the taking of another human life. Please show some
# sensitivity.
Go back and read this part of the thread again. The barb wasn't toward
flimflam, it was at Plus P. He took it well, and responded with class.
Dick Burg
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles King
No one seems to have considered that perhaps his access to his "counter"
gun(s) was blocked by a sword wielding maniac. Swords are long and fast.
Once he gets back here, I'm sure we'll hear all about it.
Kingfisher
NRA, NRA-ILA, GOA, JPFO, SAF, CCRKBA, LSAS, LEAA. Money is a weapon.
RKBA!
When guns are outlawed, politicians will still have armed bodyguards.
R.M.R.
him for about a half hour and he sounded very good.He told me the story
and the details of it I'll leave up to him but the reason for the 25 was
as this guy came in and stabbed him he was sitting down,His Glock next
to him on the desk,his chair had wheels and as he pushed back,he pushed
so hard he fell out of the chair and couldn't get to his Glock because
he was on the floor.The guy didn't only stab him he but beat him with
the butt of the sword.Dave wanted space between the two and went to his
back room as the fight went on and grabbed a peace but it wasn't
loaded.At this time it was pretty hand to sword combat and the guy was
down and come up and stuck him again,in the lower stomach out his
buttocks cutting his colin,A
through
and through.Dave pulled the sword out of himself.At that time he
realized he had his Beretta 25 in his pocket (ball ammo) and fired 4
shots in his head.He went down and yes died.This was very emotional for
me and I think I need a beer now but Dave sounded good and when I told
him of the concern in the group he just said WHY.He's a pretty humble
person when you get to talk to him one on one.He was very appreciated of
the concern on this NG and said thank you all very much.This nutcase has
been under investigation for 2 months because he had this thing for a
local weather tv channel lady.His van was loaded with .357 ammo and
ninja clothes and swords.The police assume Dave was his jumping off
point for something bigger.At FlimFlams expense he did a public service
and took him out.Got to get that beer now.Thanks for listening.PS he
said the nurses are real pretty and treat him real good and should be
leaving there the middle of next week if everything checks out good but
he's going to be laid up for a long time....Thanks again
Ray,
(SI vis pacem,
para bellum)
frank...@aol.com
its in a multi vault upstairs, next to my bed. i have a 38 in a multi vault
in the livingroom behind the couch. in the basement in my gunsafe i have a
S&W airweight 317 8shot .22 , for those "just in case i cant get to a real
gun" moments. thank god flim flam had that "just in case i cant get to my
real gun", guns. franksquid
Rich Zuchowski wrote:
> ...
rosignol
<ri...@serpenco.com> wrote:
[zap]
# Next time I see him, I fully
# expect to see him packing no less than 5 Glocks at all times.
....just in case four of them jam, hm? ;)
Anyone turn up the address to send get-well cards?
Corsair
wrote:
#Samurai/Katana swords may be sold as novelty items or for martial arts
#demonstrations, but they are tools designed for a single purpose.
#Fighting. Or more accurately, killing your opponent.
#
Actually, unless they guy was wealthy, the blade was probably
NOT a 'live' steel fighting blade. There are scads of Samurai/Katana
replica blades out there made with Stainless steel or 420-440 carbon
steel. They are intended to be either wall hangers, or demonstration
blades, rather than actual fighting weapons. In Japan, the word for
these types of blades translates as "toys." A forged and folded
Samurai blade can cost thousands, due to the time and energy put into
them. Don't get me wrong here. Even the "brittle" stainless blades
are lethal. They just wouldn't parry well.
Get well soon, FlimFlam!
Corsair, The Mostly Harmless
***************************************
1982 Honda V45 Sabre "Trigger II"
http://www.corsairsfreehold.com
***************************************
"The Mind, The Tool, and The Engine..
This Optimum fusion!
And Man, in his arrogance
Locks horns with nature
And plunges headlong
Into the New Frontier!"
The 21st Century Technobible
RWL
#I would not rag him for using a .25 auto in a situation such as he was faced
#with you grab the first gun you can
#
Note the assailant died from the mousegun wound(s)
Michael Justice
# Is there a semi-practical way to *collectively* send a card or flowers?
How about a more practical get-well present, like a full suit of plate-mail??
-- Michael.
--
Michael A. Justice |". . . let us at least make an effort to think rationally.
lib...@eskimo.com | Is the way to prevent more tragedies like the one in
Libertarian Party | Atlanta to pass laws ensuring that virtually all Americans
http://www.lp.org/ | will be as helpless as those who were shot and killed
FIJA, WCW, NRA, AMA| by Matt Barton?" -- Thomas Sowell, August 5, 1999
William Merriman
(Hopefully, Magnum will allow this sub-thread to get started before
redirecting to tpg. :-)
John T. Ward <jtwa...@aol.com> writes:
"You know, folks, this incident begs a discussion of a
broader subject. I don't know about you, but this "customer" sure
doesn't seem to be the type of person I'd like to see running around
town with a .357mag. (Stabbing people with a sword does not, to me,
indicate great mental stability). He could be a poster child for Handgun
Control Inc., yet the pawn shop owner apparently did everything required
of him under the law before selling the gun to this guy. What, if any,
other procedures should be in place to prevent other closet crazies like
this from having easy access to firearms?"
---------------------------------------------------------------
Not to be insensitive to our friend`s plight, but this is a good
real life case study of two types of "gun control" in action. Actually
"gun control" -did- work in this case. In fact, it was the denial of the
revolver that caused the wacko to go berserk, showing his true colors.
(I only wish he hadn`t gotten the jump on Flimflam.) For the sake of
discussion, we could call the two types of "gun control" by the names
"traditional" and "government". In this case which type worked? It
wasn`t the long distance, computerized, Federally-mandated government
type. The type that worked was the traditional type - the local
neighborhood gun vendor looking the customer in the eye. What a concept!
William Merriman
NRA
GOA
JPFO
"Vote Bush/Cheney 2000"
MG9MIKE
#decreasing the slimebag count by one. God bless you, J.D.
#
I'll say yup to that! The best thing Dave did was at" the moment of truth"he
had no problem with completeing the task at hand. God bless you Dave and, my
best for a speedy recovery.
Mike @ Willowbrook Firearms
Kroagnon
"Arthur Davis" <arte...@hitter.net> wrote in message
news:39D495B2...@hitter.net...
# The local paper (in crystal river) this morning says Dave was still in
fair
# condition but was he was expected to be moved out of ICU late yesterday.
# He's in St Joseph's Hospital in Tampa, FL. It was reported earlier that
his
# attacker expired Wednesday. The only issue remaining is that the
# prosecutors haven't made a decision on whether Dave will face any charges.
FACE ANY CHARGES ??!! Somebody stabs you in the chest with a sword and you
"face charges" for DEFENDING YOURSELF ??!
Russel Brooks
# #From an old post:
#
# Flimflam
# A-1 Pawn & Jewelry
# 1925 S.E. Hwy 19
# Crystal River, Fl. 34429
# 352-795-2777
# Fax# 352-795-2093
# flim...@xtalwind.net
Suggestion: Let's flood his mail with get well cards!
Email is ok but a couple of thousand real paper get well cards would be
a nice thing to do and it also might make the news and that would make
us shooting community appear to be a caring bunch. That kind of image
wouldn't be a bad thing to have with the election coming up.
Cheers... Russ
Louis J.M
<Loans...@prodigy.net> wrote:
# I'd probably say that the .25 did the trick didn't it?
#
# A head shot killed him. Would you rather fire 6 rounds that miss in .357
# Mag or one in .25 that killed him?
Oh here we go again. ;-)
Look - all guns can kill. Even a pocket 25.acp with a 2 inch barrel.
Hell, one kid down here shot his teacher in the head and he died on
the scene too.
# (just playing hte devil's advocate on this one)..
#
# Lshark......
#
# (My carry is limited to a .357 Mag and .45 ACP.)
And how.
.-~~-.____ Louis J.M
/ | ' \
( ) O _ E-Mail: Loui...@Earthlink.net
\_/-, ,----' // WWW : Coming Soon!
==== ___// ----------------------------------------------------
/ \-'~; /~~~(O) "It has become appallingly obvious that our
/ __/~| __/ | technology has exceeded our humanity."
==(______| (_________| - Albert Einstein
Mulroymedia
Regardless how the situation turned out, a 25.ACP pocket pistol is by
no stretch of the imagination a fighting cartridge. He should consider
himself lucky.
Inevitably someone is going to ask him when he gets back on here why
that was the only gun he had in his store. It'll be interesting to
hear his explanation.
#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Flim Flam and I have exchanged harsh words, but I have to defend him on this
one. It was a BACKUP weapon and it worked. Sure, I'll bet he wished he had
something bigger, but his decision BEFORE the event saved his life. Notice the
fact he had a good gun IN view didn't deter the thug. He thought he'd win.
Flim Flam didn't do a text book perfect response, but he lived. Nothing else
matters. NOTHING!!!!!!
(don't tell him I said this)
Ricks1941
rename the that .25 the"ninjanator". Anyhow para thanks for the info. I pray
for a quick recovery to Flim Flam. He did what he had to do to protect
himself.And it sounds like he saved more people in the future.
Rick
RSLiles
<Loui...@Earthlink.net> writes:
#
#Inevitably someone is going to ask him when he gets back on here why
#that was the only gun he had in his store. It'll be interesting to
#hear his explanation.
#
As someone else already pointed out, there may have been a sword wielding
maniac between him and his other hardware.
Bob
RSLiles
hope the perp died at the scene so we didn't waste any medical resources on
him."
R.M.R.
attacked (Very important)please read R.M.R., Oct 1
or call him @813-870-4000 and say room 511,
The way he sounded yesterday morning at 10:30 am he wouldn't mind
calls.What's a few bucks long distances amongst us rec.gun brothers.They
put me right through......
Ray,
(Si via pacem,
para bellum)
William Merriman
Russ Brooks <rlbr...@pobox.com> wrote:
#P.A. Harrington wrote:
# Flimflam
# A-1 Pawn & Jewelry
# 1925 S.E. Hwy 19
# Crystal River, Fl. 34429
# 352-795-2777
# Fax# 352-795-2093
# flim...@xtalwind.net
#Suggestion: Let's flood his mail with get well #cards!
#Email is ok but a couple of thousand real #paper get well cards would
be a nice thing to #do ..." <snip>
---------------------------------------------------------------
Great idea! My card is going in the mail Monday morning.
William Merriman
NRA
GOA
JPFO
"Vote Bush/Cheney 2000"
David Steuber
' For more on this story, check out the St. Pete Times at:
'
' http://www.sptimes.com/News/092700/Citrus/Gun_purchase_turns_in.shtml
That is FlimFlam alright. I hope he is Ok.
--
David Steuber | Perl apprentice, Apache/mod_perl user, and
NRA Member | general Internet web wannabe.
ICQ# 91465842 (Using Micq 0.4.6 under Linux)
It's time to be free: http://www.harrybrowne2000.org
David Steuber
' What, if any, other procedures should be in place to prevent other closet
' crazies like this from having easy access to firearms?
The news article said it. Dave observed that the man was acting in a
strange manor. So he decided to make a judgement call and not
transfer the handgun. I hate to say it, but it looks like he made the
right call.
With all the friends Dave Phillips has made here over the years, he
will have more than one recovery to deal with. He will be recovering
from his physical and mental injuries. But he will also have a
mountain of e-mail that hopefully all says, "get well soon. Best
wishes."
Jim Grunewald
Don't you see what an irresponsible person Flim-flam was. Why as soon as he was
stabbed, he should have been on his cell phone dialing 911! That's the way
these things are handled. We don't go off half-cocked shooting at somebody just
because he stabbed you with a sword. Why somebody could get killed with one of
those guns - the way the cause all that crime and all. No, guns are just too
dangerous and this is a perfect illustration of that. If Flim-flam didn't have
that gun, whey that other person would be alive today. But instead, we have one
person dead. Dead! Doesn't that cause anybody to think twice?
..
..
..
Thank you, Sarah. Now go away.... Forever.
God bless Flim-flam and may he have a speedy recovery.
Jim
Hawke
Actually I am astonished that Flim Flam didn't have a legitimate defensive
weapon on him while he was on the job. I thought all pawnshop and jewelery
store owners packed all the time. With his LEO background it is even more
surprising. I bet he will be ready to go when he gets back on his feet.
Hawke
> ...
R.M.R.
Glock sitting on his desk.He kicked back after the first stab so hard he
fell out of his chair.To answer your question on why he didn't have a
legitimate defensive weapon on his person,......
He did.The .25 that was in his pocket.The one that evidently saved his
life.......and lives happily ever after...Case closed
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum)
MC Recon
#I'd probably say that the .25 did the trick didn't it?
#
#A head shot killed him. Would you rather fire 6 rounds that miss in .357
#Mag or one in .25 that killed him?
Well, it killed him but not anywhere near immediately, which is what is preferred.
I'd say the real question is: did he get stabbed before or after the shooting. If
after, then a bigger gun might have made a difference.
Louis J.M
wrote:
# Hey Hawke; After I spoke to Dave I posted what he told me.He had his
# Glock sitting on his desk.He kicked back after the first stab so hard he
# fell out of his chair.To answer your question on why he didn't have a
# legitimate defensive weapon on his person,......
# He did.The .25 that was in his pocket.The one that evidently saved his
# life.......and lives happily ever after...Case closed
# Ray,
# (Si vis pacem,
# para bellum)
Gezus.
.-~~-.____ Louis J.M
/ | ' \
( ) O _ E-Mail: Loui...@Earthlink.net
\_/-, ,----' // WWW : Coming Soon!
==== ___// ----------------------------------------------------
/ \-'~; /~~~(O) "He who would rise in the world should veil his
/ __/~| __/ | ambition with the forms of humanity."
==(______| (_________| - Chinese Proverb
rosignol
<epef...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[zap]
# Well, it killed him but not anywhere near immediately, which is what is
# preferred.
# I'd say the real question is: did he get stabbed before or after the
# shooting. If
# after, then a bigger gun might have made a difference.
Before, based on the report posted here.
I'm impressed. I don't know if I'd be able to hit *anything* after being
run through with a sword, much less pull it out, barricade myself in an
office, find a pistol, load it, and still inflict an (eventually) fatal
wound on the bad guy when he busted through the door.
R.M.R.
He was already stabbed twice or should I say three times seeing one was
a through and through..He shot him 4 times in a split second and AFTER
he was stabbed and he went down and didn't move ever again.Now what are
you going to say that one .40 would of been cheaper then four .25's.Like
another post said,what's the difference if he used a sling shot.Some of
you guys refuse to see the reality of this and are hell bent on bigger
has got to be better.Not always true.Remember the kid who shot his
teacher a few months back?
He used a Raven .25 The damn thing will kill ya when It's doing 360s
around your brain.
Ray,
(Si vis pacem,
para bellum)
Mulroymedia
another post said,what's the difference if he used a sling shot.Some of
you guys refuse to see the reality of this and are hell bent on bigger
has got to be better.Not always true.Remember the kid who shot his
teacher a few months back?
He used a Raven .25 The damn thing will kill ya when It's doing 360s
around your brain.
Ray,
If you have a choice bigger is better. I'll be Flim Flam will tell us he didn't
wish for a smaller gun when it went down. I'll also bet he moves UP in the
caliber dept.
Louis J.M
wrote:
# MC..Read the post man.I wrote what he told me.
# He was already stabbed twice or should I say three times seeing one was
# a through and through..He shot him 4 times in a split second and AFTER
# he was stabbed and he went down and didn't move ever again.Now what are
# you going to say that one .40 would of been cheaper then four .25's.Like
# another post said,what's the difference if he used a sling shot.Some of
# you guys refuse to see the reality of this and are hell bent on bigger
# has got to be better.Not always true.Remember the kid who shot his
# teacher a few months back?
# He used a Raven .25 The damn thing will kill ya when It's doing 360s
# around your brain.
FlimFlam may have made a very big mistake by failing to act on this
"Ninja"'s threats, but he made up for it by the way he reacted,
knowing he was probably mortally wounded because of that mistake.
A 25.acp can certainly penetrate a human skull at close range. A 7.6
grain air gun pellet can do the same thing. This is cheifly the
reason we teach responsibility with any gun.
But I'm really not concearned about that as much as the motive to
all this. What baffles me is why would someone dress up as a Ninja
to pick up a handgun, then tell the clerk, who very likely has a
gun on him that your a "Ninja" and your going to kill him, then
walk out of the store, walk back in with a sword, and stab the
guy?
I guess there are some things I'll never understand.
.-~~-.____ Louis J.M
/ | ' \
( ) O _ E-Mail: Loui...@Earthlink.net
\_/-, ,----' // WWW : Coming Soon!
==== ___// ----------------------------------------------------
/ \-'~; /~~~(O) "You men can't stand the truth, sir, as soon as it
/ __/~| __/ | embarrasses your interests or your pleasures."
==(______| (_________| - Francoise Parturier
Hawke
isn't even funny. They forget that more people are killed with .22's than
any other round. Small caliber rounds are deadly, especially if they are
headshots.
Hawke
R.M.R. <Par...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8rf6rt$2r3$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
> ...
Jeff/addesign
#my prayers go out to flim flam and his familly, i use a 9mm for protection,
#its in a multi vault upstairs, next to my bed. i have a 38 in a multi vault
#in the livingroom behind the couch. in the basement in my gunsafe i have a
#S&W airweight 317 8shot .22 , for those "just in case i cant get to a real
#gun" moments. thank god flim flam had that "just in case i cant get to my
#real gun", guns. franksquid
The22 or 25 is a nostril gun. Like most derringers, Most effective
when shoved up the perp's nose. Better than nothing. Similar to the
"get-0ff-me" gun, such as the much sought-after Seecamp, or that 4
shot .45acp (forgot the maker). They may have no sights, you can't hit
anything with them at 25 yards, possibly not even at 10. But when push
comes to shove, and someone is on top of you, a get-off-me or a
nostril gun will do the trick.
Jeff/addesign
NRA Certified RSO
ISRA,Tuesday Night Irregular Rifles, High Power League
Mulroymedia
any other round. Small caliber rounds are deadly, especially if they are
headshots.
Yes, they do die....and in this case DAYS later.
Thomas M. Reynolds
# anything with them at 25 yards, possibly not even at 10. But when push
# comes to shove, and someone is on top of you, a get-off-me or a
# nostril gun will do the trick.
No offense intended, but a 4 shot 45 acp is a monster compared to the others you
mention. A "get off me" gun? More of a "good bye" with the first shot. I have
(as perhaps everyone here has) seen holdups filmed on security tapes and have
never seen one where a target pistol would have mattered. Arms coming out of
hiding or over counter tops waiving wildly and firing. Someone comes into your
store and there will not likely be any two handed sight alignment...more likely
lots of noise and scrambling around, at least on the tapes of actual incidents
shown on the reality TV shows we see. I think a ,45 with 4 rounds in calm hands
would be devastatingly effective under 20 feet. In the hands of someone in a
panic and out of control, sights will be irrelevant anyway. I think a .22 or .25
is inadaquate...except it just saved flim flam's life.
Thomas M. Reynolds
# They forget that more people are killed with .22's than
# any other round. Small caliber rounds are deadly, especially if they are
# headshots.
# #>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
# Yes, they do die....and in this case DAYS later.
But flim flam didn't die which may be the better test of the gun's value in
the instant case at least. Unarmed he would been hacked to pieces. And it
looks like the dead guy was stalking a female TV personality. Again, if he
had simply gone for money and sold the gun to a man he sensed was "wrong,"
he would not have been nearly killed and perhaps that TV woman would be dead
by now...the perp wanted that gun for something. But flim flam behaved as a
responsible gun seller and was nearly killed when he refused to sell the gun
even though the guy had been legally cleared to purchase it. Have we got
some kind of good citizenship award around here to give him? Good man,
plain and simple.
Larry Anderson
(Jeff/addesign) wrote:
#Better than nothing. Similar to the
#"get-0ff-me" gun, such as the much sought-after Seecamp, or that 4
#shot .45acp (forgot the maker). They may have no sights, you can't hit
#anything with them at 25 yards, possibly not even at 10.
Not to disagree with your assessment of the _effectiveness_ of small
caliber guns, I _do_ have to correct your disparagement of the accuracy
potential of the Seecamp. The first time I attended Mas Ayoob's
highly-rated LFI-1 course I took part in the shooting training and
completed qualification solely with the use of a sightless Seecamp .32,
scoring a 287 out of a possible 300.
Surely, the rounds keyholed at the greater distances up to 25 yards but I
hit what I was aiming at!
For many other reasons, some of which you've commented on, I've since sold
that wonderful Seecamp and now carry as my first-line-of-defense a Glock
30. More accurate, more effective but certainly not as convenient <g>.
===================================================================
| | "The time is coming," declares the LORD, |
| Larry Anderson | "when I will make a new covenant with |
| la...@seafan.com | the house of Israel and with the |
| | house of Judah." --- Jeremiah 31:31 |
| -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
| For I am not ashamed of the Good News, since it is God's powerful |
| means of bringing salvation to everyone who keeps on trusting, |
| to the Jew especially, but equally to the Gentile. -- Romans 1:16 |
===================================================================
| Visit my website at -- www.seafan.com |
===================================================================
Mulroymedia
Don't confuse TARGET shooting with combat shooting. They are NOT related.
25 yards is for movies, not real life.
Even 10 yards is a big stretch with 90% of all SD shootings at much less than
21 feet. Ask Flimflam.
[MODERATOR: We understand he is heading home from the
hospital today. Let's assume that any further discussion
on flimflam's encounter will be better served by inquring
directly of him (further assuming he CAN talk about it at
all or chooses to.) Either way let's welcome him back
and wish him a speedy recovery! ]
Mulroymedia
Not to disagree with your assessment of the _effectiveness_ of small
caliber guns, I _do_ have to correct your disparagement of the accuracy
potential of the Seecamp. The first time I attended Mas Ayoob's
highly-rated LFI-1 course I took part in the shooting training and
completed qualification solely with the use of a sightless Seecamp .32,
scoring a 287 out of a possible 300.
If he let you use a .32 acp he's a bigger moron that I suspected. Or he
doesn't give a damn about your hide, or both.
Surely, the rounds keyholed at the greater distances up to 25 yards but I
hit what I was aiming at!
#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What are you doing shooting at 25 yards? making a movie?
For many other reasons, some of which you've commented on, I've since sold
that wonderful Seecamp and now carry as my first-line-of-defense a Glock
30. More accurate, more effective but certainly not as convenient <g>.
#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
staying alive isn't about "convenient".
Mulroymedia
But flim flam didn't die which may be the better test of the gun's value in
the instant case at least.
As we said before a lot of luck here. Something bigger would have made the luck
easier to come by, but his choice to have the pocket gun was the BIG factor,
not the choice of a .25. Priorities.
Unarmed he would been hacked to pieces. And it looks like the dead guy was
stalking a female TV personality. Again, if he
had simply gone for money and sold the gun to a man he sensed was "wrong,"
he would not have been nearly killed and perhaps that TV woman would be dead
by now...the perp wanted that gun for something.
#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Are you assuming the thug wouldn't have killed him anyway after getting the
gun? Maybe the sword was a SECOND choice.
But flim flam behaved as a
responsible gun seller and was nearly killed when he refused to sell the gun
even though the guy had been legally cleared to purchase it. Have we got
some kind of good citizenship award around here to give him? Good man,
plain and simple.
#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The press will not use him as an ICON of what a good FFL dealer does. It is not
news worthy, which is a tragic shame.
He deserves a BIG hero button for the money he saved us taxpayers, and the
injury/death to others includig cops and victims.
Jeff/addesign
## or that 4 shot .45acp (forgot the maker). They may have no sights, you can't
## hit
## anything with them at 25 yards, possibly not even at 10. But when push
## comes to shove, and someone is on top of you, a get-off-me or a
## nostril gun will do the trick.
#No offense intended, but a 4 shot 45 acp is a monster compared to the others you
#mention. A "get off me" gun? More of a "good bye" with the first shot. I have
Yes, a get-off-me permanently gun. I still can't remember the maker,
but the one I'm thinking of has hardly any grip and no sights. Most
anything with no sights is not intended for aimed fire. I don't doubt
that someone wih patience and a steady hand can hit something at a
distance with one, but that is clearly not their intended use.
Jeff/addesign
NRA Certified RSO
ISRA,Tuesday Night Irregular Rifles, High Power League
Nick
writes:
#So many people underestimate the killing power of small caliber rounds is
#isn't even funny. They forget that more people are killed with .22's than
#any other round. Small caliber rounds are deadly, especially if they are
#headshots.
#Hawke
I think this is a prevalent misstatement. More people are killed with .22
caliber guns because there are more of them, they are cheaper, the ammo is
cheaper, and there is virtually no recoil. That in itself doesn't make them
deadlier. It's like saying more people are caught speeding while driving Ford
"Fiestas" than while driving Yugoslavian "Yugos". Fiestas are really no faster,
there are just more of them. And unlike Yugos, the Fiestas do probably get more
than 20 miles to the pint (of oil).
Praemiando Incitat
Nick
writes:
#Unarmed he would been hacked to pieces. And it looks like the dead guy was
#stalking a female TV personality.
Anyone know which "female personality"? I live in the same general area, and
wonder what the guy's tastes were.
Jeff/addesign
#In article <8rj4ep$dfu$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, addes...@earthlink.net
#(Jeff/addesign) wrote:
##Better than nothing. Similar to the
##"get-0ff-me" gun, such as the much sought-after Seecamp, or that 4
##shot .45acp (forgot the maker). They may have no sights, you can't hit
##anything with them at 25 yards, possibly not even at 10.
#Not to disagree with your assessment of the _effectiveness_ of small
#caliber guns, I _do_ have to correct your disparagement of the accuracy
#potential of the Seecamp. The first time I attended Mas Ayoob's
I don't doubt that some accuracy is possible. But the absence of a
front sight is a good indication that the gun is intended as a
"get-off-me" rather than a combat piece.
Jeff/addesign
NRA Certified RSO
ISRA,Tuesday Night Irregular Rifles, High Power League
Michael J. Medley
# I think a .22 or .25 is inadaquate...except it just saved flim flam's life.
It brings to mind something of columnists Jeff Cooper wrote, ".25 in
your pocket is more effective than the .45 locked in your closet."
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Remember that a government big enough to give you everything
you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."
- Col. David Crockett
MLee388407
but the one I'm thinking of has hardly any grip and no sights. Most
anything with no sights is not intended for aimed fire. I don't doubt
that someone wih patience and a steady hand can hit something at a
distance with one, but that is clearly not their intended use.
Is it a Semmerling or something like that I remember a 4 shot large bore
hideout gun but cant remember it exactly.
Mike
rec.guns.
MLee388407
wish for a smaller gun when it went down. I'll also bet he moves UP in the
caliber dept.
Dave had the 950 in his pocket when he deployed it. I dont know of many guns
that will sit comfortably in my pocket all day. The little beretta did its
job, its a hideout gun that saved FlimFlams life.
Allan Whitaker
> ...
Welcome to Amerika!!!
--
You got a lot of guts...
Lets see what they look like!
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
With Servers In California, Texas And Virginia - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
Hawke
However, what condition was he in say thirty seconds after being shot in the
head four times. I don't know the facts but I'll bet he was incapacitated
rather quickly after receiving the four to the head.
Hawke
Mulroymedia <mulro...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8rj4m7$dhv$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
> ...
Mulroymedia
However, what condition was he in say thirty seconds after being shot in the
head four times. I don't know the facts but I'll bet he was incapacitated
rather quickly after receiving the four to the head.
Hawke
30 seconds is an eternity when you are in defense of your life. That isn't fast
enough for me.
Jeff/addesign
#Yes, a get-off-me permanently gun. I still can't remember the maker,
#but the one I'm thinking of has hardly any grip and no sights. Most
#anything with no sights is not intended for aimed fire. I don't doubt
#that someone wih patience and a steady hand can hit something at a
#distance with one, but that is clearly not their intended use.
#Is it a Semmerling or something like that I remember a 4 shot large bore
#hideout gun but cant remember it exactly.
No, I was thinking of the AMT Backup. It's actually a 5 shot.
Jeff/addesign
NRA Certified RSO
ISRA,Tuesday Night Irregular Rifles, High Power League
Jeff/addesign
#You're right, the "ninja" did actually die a few days after being shot.
#However, what condition was he in say thirty seconds after being shot in the
#head four times. I don't know the facts but I'll bet he was incapacitated
#rather quickly after receiving the four to the head.
#Hawke
##>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
#30 seconds is an eternity when you are in defense of your life. That isn't fast
#enough for me.
IIRC, the Oakland quake of 1989 was about 30 seconds. Funny, when I
have to describe what happened to me in an Oakland building in that 30
seconds, it takes 5 minutes or more. I could swear that building was
bouncing a lot longer. I was also once in a car wreck (hit by a drunk
driver at 70), in which what I thought was the last minute of my life
seemed to be a slow-motion eternity.
Any high-power shooters here know that msot novice competitors get off
all 10 rounds in the first 30 of their 60-second rapid. When you train
to use all your time, 5-6 seconds a round is a very slow, relaxed
pace.
r...@toad.rmkhome.com
:In my opinion any gun in that situation is better than nothing but a
:pawn shop owner in FL really should be better prepaired not only with
:something better than a .25 auto but he should have it on his person
:and not have to run to the back room to get it. my .02
It would be interesting to know what type of ammo he had loaded.
As far as I can tell their is 50 gr ball ammo and 45 grain defense ammo.
The defense ammo is about $20 for 50 rounds in Colorado, and looks like it
ought to spread pretty well.
My backup/backup weapon is a Baby Browning loaded with 45 grain defense
ammo and it looks like it should spread pretty well, but .25 ACP 50 gr
ammo looks like it would be no better than .22.
--
Rick Kelly r...@rmkhome.com www.rmkhome.com