Federal .308 match load
Stephen Lowe
Gold Match .308 168 GR ammo? At $15-$20 per box its time to reload. I have
all of the needed equipment and just need the experts' suggestions to get as
close to the factory velocity and accuracy as possible.
Thanks.
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Clark Magnuson
Bob Harvey
# Does anyone have a suggested powder and powder quantity to match the Federal
# Gold Match .308 168 GR ammo? At $15-$20 per box its time to reload. I have
# all of the needed equipment and just need the experts' suggestions to get as
# close to the factory velocity and accuracy as possible.
It's about 13.40/box from CDNN, $10 shipping for ammo orders > $100.
Yep, it's still time to reload.
Bob Harvey
Scott Collins
just under 2600 fps (Federal GMM published MV) on my chrony with this load.
This load for my rifle averages .5 MOA at 100 yards. My rifle is a 26"
barreled Winchester M70 HBV.
I'm thinking about trying Varget next, as some say it is very accurate also.
Check out www.loadyourown.com for what others have used.
NOTE: I take NO responsibility about the safety of this particular load in
YOUR rifle. Work up to this load and be watchful for over pressure signs.
Scott Collins
Newcastle, WA
"Stephen Lowe" <sal...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Joe Portale
There is no real data for the Federal Gold Match that you are asking for.
According to Cartridges of the World, 9th edition, the Federal load you are
asking for is proprietary. The only info that they give is the muzzle
velocity being 2600 FPS. Here is an alternative. According to the Army
Ammunition Technical Sheets, TM 43-0001-27, the National Match 308 round
M852 uses 42 grains of IMR 4895 under a HPBT bullet. The velocity of this
round is listed at 2550.
Just as a word of advice. I wouldn;t spend a good amount of time trying to
duplicate someone else's loads. Here is the reason, rifles are all
different. You can say that they have personalities. Since you are all set
up for reloading, why not tune some ammo that works best in your rifle?
Pick a bullet, several powders and work loads to see which your rifle likes
the best? SOme times all it takes is a quarter of a grain to go from an
okay load to a real tack driver.
What are you putting this ammo through?
Joe Portale
Tucson, AZ
"Stephen Lowe" <sal...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Bill Poole
Federal Gold Match .308 168 GR ammo?
Since that ammo is considered the standard by which all .308 ammo is judged,
when I had my M1A rebuilt for service rifle shooting (the year BEFORE I
learned that everyone is now shooting an AR-15) I got a box of federal and
compared it over the chrono to my handloads.
41.0 gr H4895 (the lot I had, in the rifle I had) duplicated factory
velocity with a 168 Sierra at 2.800" oal, ONE difference was, I was using
moly coated bullets AT that time. (FC case, WLR primer).
YOUR milage may vary... check the loading manuals... etc etc... start at
minimum load and work up etc. etc etc...
good shooting.
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
Sam A. Kersh
<sal...@earthlink.net> wrote:
#Does anyone have a suggested powder and powder quantity to match the Federal
#Gold Match .308 168 GR ammo? At $15-$20 per box its time to reload. I have
#all of the needed equipment and just need the experts' suggestions to get as
#close to the factory velocity and accuracy as possible.
#
#Thanks.
I asked Charlie Petty a similar question elsewhere. I gave up trying
to buy a Tikka Whitetail Hunter and bought a Savage Weather Warrior LH
in .308 caliber. I plain on using 165 grain BTSP and Grand Slams.
Charlie suggested two powders, 4895 and Varget. Of the two, he's more
partial to the Varget.
Sam A. Kersh
NRA Patron
L.E.A.A. Life Member
TSRA Life Member
GOA, JPFO, SAF
http://www.flash.net/~csmkersh/
==============================================================
Never forget that your weapons was made by the lowest bidder.
From McGarvey's Laws of Combat Operations.
Charles Winters
Match cases, Hornady or RCBS dies. Federal 210M primers. Nosler or Hornady
168 gr match bullets and IMR 4064 powder. Pay particular attention to case
prep, including reaming the primer pockets and trimming to uniform length.
Use a runout gage like RCBS casemaster to confirm that total bullet runout
of loaded rounds is .003" or less. Check Precision Shooting magazine to tap
into the benchresters for more sophisticated techniques.
Start with 40.0 grains of 4064 and work up to 43.5 max in half grain
increments, looking for best accuracy, then fine tune up and down in .1
grain increments to reach final charge weight. Use a micrometer stem on
your powder measure and record the setting for the final charge, then always
repeat by volume, not weight. Gunpowders vary in density slightly according
to atmospheric humidity and temperature. Using volume according to the
setting on the powder measure stem, you always get the same number of
granules and energy, regardless of the exact weight.
Do all this and you'll be bumping up against the ultimate capability of your
rifle and your own ability to hold it consistently. Good Luck - CW
"Stephen Lowe" <sal...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Mike
gr. MatchKing. I would suggest trying that powder with those Sierra
bullets. You may find that you can get away a couple of grains lighter than
the Federal Match and equal or beat it's accuracy. It is the best I've ever
tried when it came to factory ammo, but it is no bargain to buy.
Bart B.
chambered for the .308 Win., there's some things I've learned on my
own and cautioned about from record-setters and several national
champions.
First, never use group averages to compare load accuracy. Use only
the largest group shot; that's all you can count on all the time. Why
use averages when your rifle and ammo will only shoot that good half
the time? Shoot one 20-shot group; it'll tell more about the load's
accuracy than ten 2-shot or four 5-shot groups because the several
few-shot groups won't have their centers in the same place. Don't
forget; if you shoot the test groups, they reflect both your ability
and the rifle's and the ammo's. Shoot prone with a bag under the
forend for best results. Bench shooting isn't near as repeatable and
doesn't produce the same zero as position shooting.
Second, the same load for Sierra 168s with the best accuracy across
virtually all the top quality barrels as well as factory target
barrels has remained the same for over 40 years. 40 or 41 grains of
IMR4064 with a good uniform mild match primer seated in a proper
full-length sized case with just enough neck tension on the bullet to
hold it in place for rapid fire. No other powder with the 168s in a
.308 has been used as successfully in winning and record setting;
there must be some reason. Yes, you gotta weigh it, but the objective
is accuracy, not reloading speed; isn't it?
Third, no two barrels will produce the same muzzle velocity with this
(or any other) load. Too many variables. Two shooters can have over
50 fps difference in muzzle velocity average with the same rifle and
ammo. Military arsenals test velocity at 78 feet; the rest of us use
something much closer based on personal preferences. Even the best
lots of match ammo from Lake City don't have the same muzzle velocity,
so why try to equal it. The objective is best accuracy, not same
velocity. Duh!!!!!
Clark Magnuson
a proper
> full-length sized case with just enough neck tension on the bullet to
> hold it in place for rapid fire.
Bart,
I know you are using a FL die with the neck lapped out and no expander ball.
Why don't you use a Redding FL bushing die?
The reason I ask is opening the die neck seems like a process I could
introduce eccentricity, but buying a bushing die keeps my errors out.
Clark
Bart B.
# Use a micrometer stem on
# your powder measure and record the setting for the final charge, then always
# repeat by volume, not weight. Gunpowders vary in density slightly according
# to atmospheric humidity and temperature. Using volume according to the
# setting on the powder measure stem, you always get the same number of
# granules and energy, regardless of the exact weight.
Folks knowledgeable about smokeless powder, like those who make it at
IMR, mix different batches of powders to get the burn rate within
tight specifications. This means that each granule in a charge has a
good chance of not burning the same rate as another. Differences in
chemistry between batches require blending to make each canistered lot
of powder sold to us reloaders uniform to other lots.
Competitive shooters as well as arsenals learned over 60 years ago
that weighed powder charges produce more consistant muzzle velocities
than metered charges. Especially with the longer-grain powders such
as 4064. If this wasn't true, then Gundermann electronic powder
measures wouldn't have been in demand in the 1960s to speed up
weighing when thousands of rounds of match-winning and record-setting
handloads were made. If you're thinking about the Culver and other
measures used in benchrest competition, these powder measures are
indeed the best on this planet, but are used for short-range loads.
They don't hold a candle (or any other bright object) to weighed
charges for long range accuracy because their velocity spread is too
high.
I've never seen nor heard in any media what the powder granule count
per charge of smokeless powder is. Maybe you could enlighten us as to
how many there are, then we could start counting. Especially with
some of the flake-type pistol powders we would have to use
micro-tweezers to count. And just think of all the refunds the powder
measure companies would have to honor because their metered charge
weights varied by a few dozen granules.
For some reason, you've been misinformed about this granule count
issue. Weigh 10 charges of any smokeless powder, count the granules,
then report back to all of us your numbers. Be careful; don't
miscount or drop any granules.
But that's OK; we've all made mistakes about reloading concepts and
realities and have learned from them. I've made a few doozies myself
years ago. Welcome to the club; you can be president.
Bart B.
# Why don't you use a Redding FL bushing die?
Because I have six RCBS regular full-length .308 Win. dies I've lapped
the necks out to the sizes I use and they also vary a bit in
sized-case pressure ring and shoulder diameters. I don't want to
reduce my fired case body diameters more than about three thousandths.
Sized-case neck runout is less than a thousandth with all six dies.
I spun them the same way RCBS laps them; chuck 'em in a lathe
headstock. Then wrapped fine crocus cloth around a wood dowel split
to hold the abrasive paper. Works fine; lasts almost forever. Did
the same thing with my three .30-.338 full-length dies.
And because I've had these dies for years before Redding made their
bushing dies and never had any desire to get one.
Ken Marsh
Bart B. <bar...@aol.com> wrote:
# If you're thinking about the Culver and other
#measures used in benchrest competition, these powder measures are
#indeed the best on this planet, but are used for short-range loads.
#They don't hold a candle (or any other bright object) to weighed
#charges for long range accuracy because their velocity spread is too
#high.
I enjoy how you lightly dimiss entire classes of competition and
their handloading methods. :)
If Tony Boyer is happy 1/10 to 2/10 MOA accuracy out to 300 yards,
I imagine others can be, too.
Ken.
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Bart B.
Your comment:
# I enjoy how you lightly dimiss entire classes of competition and
# their handloading methods. :)
contradicts the following:
# # If you're thinking about the Culver and other
# #measures used in benchrest competition, these powder measures are
# #indeed the best on this planet, but are used for short-range loads.
because I didn't dimiss (dismiss?) anything. I think I can still read
the words "benchrest competition" in the above bunch of words.
Did you notice the words "short range?" 300 yards and less is short
range. 400 to 600 yards is mid range. And 700 to 1000 yards is long
range.
The following statement:
# If Tony Boyer is happy 1/10 to 2/10 MOA accuracy out to 300 yards,
# I imagine others can be, too.
is echoed by highpower competitors who load for use up to 300 yards.
An old benchrester years ago who showed up at a highpower match to try
another shooting discipline the following: "Stool-shooters could
probably use match heads for primers, naphtha-soaked pieces of pencil
lead for powder measured with teaspoons and dried date pits for
bullets to shoot record-setting groups at the shorter ranges we use."
Then he winked at me. He well understood the ammo requirements
differences for each discipline. But most otherwise knowledgeable
people don't.
Benchrest powder granules (H322 and the like) used up to 300 yards
throw very uniform charges in both Culver and Jones measures;
typically to 1/10th grain. With 4064, 4350 and other long-range
powders, 2/10ths grain is as good as they get which is better than
other measures.
It takes a knowledge of how much vertical shot stringing the muzzle
velocity spread causes for different cartridges and powders at
different ranges. Study some more of your books on reloading and
ballistics, then use some grade school math to determine the vertical
spread at 300 and 1000 yards a 1/10th grain spread causes for 6 PPC
and a 2/10ths grain spread for a .308 Win. Then you'll understand why
thrown charges with even the best measures aren't good enough for
serious long range shooting and weighed charges are best. You might
even post them so all can see how knowledgable you are.
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