Atari vs. Nintendo conspiracy?????
Ron Dippold
possible discussion is just too juicy to pass up.
al...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher A. Joseph) writes:
>This was taken off of Delphi by STReport, an Atari oriented newsletter:
> Ctsy Delphi
> 13361 14-FEB 01:33 General Information
> Stoned
> From: VGHOWARD To: ALL
> (Miscellaneous mail to VG&CE that can't be answered in the magazine for
> various reasons -- usually legal -- will be done so here whenever time
> permits by MR. VIDEO GUY. In this installment, MR. VIDEO GUY uncovers the
> Grand Video-Gaming Conspiracy.)
> Dear VG&CE:
> I'm a 16-year-old video-game player and was wondering if you could
> shed light on the first "Golden Age" of video games, the time when Atari
> was king. What ever happened to this company? How did they lose their
> position in the business to what it is today? Thanks, and I also wanted
> to write to tell you what a fantastic job you guys are doing!
> --Debbie Debs Rainsalot, CA
> MR. VIDEO GUY RESPONDS:
> Upon losing millions by the end of 1983, Atari was sold by its
> parent, Warner Communications, and, thus, the Golden Age of video games
> came to an abrupt end. Supposedly, this "crash" came due to Americans'
> waning interest in playing video-games with blocky graphics and dinky
> sound. Nintendo revived the industry in 1985, through careful marketing
> and keen observation of what went wrong the first time around. This is
> the "truth" according to many, including VG&CE's Arnie "Mr. Video-Gaming
> Know-It-All" Katz.
> Don't believe any of this for a second, Deb. This textbook fairy tale
> is the biggest perpetrated lie in video-gaming today. How could Atari
> Inc., one of the top American corporations in the early 80's, be deemed a
> financial loser even though its losses didn't come close to overcoming its
> past profits, taking inflation into account as well? Why did Warner act
> uncharacteristically jittery about these losses? Couldn't one of the
> world's biggest media conglomerates absorb Atari's losses for a lot longer
> than they actually did? Consider the smaller company NEC and their
> TurboGraphX-16. In the book ZAP! -- THE RISE AND FALL OF ATARI,
> mismanagement is blamed for the video-game giant's demise. But even if
> this were the case (which is dubious), why didn't Warner execs just ax the
> boneheads in charge of Atari and replace them? And who says mismanagement
> itself justifies the dismantling of an entire industry? Look at the
> American auto industry. I know what you're thinking..."Whoa, Mr. Video
> Guy has gone off the deep end because of his bitterness from not getting a
> promotion where he works." Yet before you write me off as another
> conspiracy paranoic, ask yourself these questions:
> (1) Who would've benefited from Atari's death?
> (2) Who could've pulled it off?
> (3) Who could've covered it up? Who?
> Atari didn't die, Miss Debs. It was killed -- by NINTENDO. Some
> facts: From the late 1970's to early 80's, Atari dominated the coin-op
> scene. Clearly, the beginning of the video-game industry was not only
> American invented but influenced, too. The only stride that the Japanese
> made during these times was Space Invaders, but they were still too busy
> hawking pachinko, their lame-o answer to pinball. Eventually, it was
> clear to the Japanese entertainment industry that America, along with the
> rest of the world, would never be hip to Japanese pop music and Akira
> Kurosawa flicks. Already the masters of consumer electronic gadgetry.,
> they, naturally, wanted to produce a cultural export. After all,
> America's most profitable export is its culture, in the form of bad
> movies, dumb TV shows, and tone-deaf pop songs. How else do you explain
> Jerry Lewis and the French?
> There was only one avenue left for Japanese entertainment to try
> pervading; video-games. But one thing stood in their way, Atari. Not eve
> n the American companies Mattel and Coleco could topple Atari's grip.
> Competing coin-op game makers also failed to break the company's equally
> tight hold in the arcades, among them Sega. So, you see, Debbie, lots of
> companies on both fronts wanted Atari dead.
> Let us now SPECULATE the events that might have occurred leading up to
> that tragic day in 1983...
> * - Japan's #1 cheesy LCD "card" game maker Nintendo (overconfident by the
> success of their Donkey Kong coin-op and sequels) forms a secret
> alliance with Japan's #1 coin-op game company Sega (producers of
> pretty looking but quickly boring-to-play arcade games) to look at the
> possibility of unseating Atari in the video-game marketplace.
> * - Atari sells over five million units of Pac-Man for their 2600 unit.
> Sears declares the cartridge the second fastest selling item they've
> ever carried. Seeing how Atari is so powerful that it can literally
> slap together an atrociously bad arcade translation and make nearly a
> billion dollars unsettles the Nintendo/Sega alliance. Prompted also
> by the fact that Mattel's superior Intellivision still isn't taking
> off (despite TV endorsements by boring George Plimpton and what
> Nintendo/Sega feels is its excellent pad controllers), they decide to
> back off for now.
> * - (Late 1982) Nintendo cohorts with Coleco to bring Donkey Kong to the
> former leather company's new ColecoVision system, and Sega
> contributes their equally bland Turbo. Despite much fanfare and
> moderate consumer interest, the system only does slightly better than
> mediocre. The Atari 2600, primitive as it is, still manages to
> maintain its majority share in the industry. The Nintendo/Sega
> alliance seems to be going nowhere.
> * - (Middle 1983) Atari reports losses in the millions since its
> ownership under Warner Communications. This is not unusual
> considering that the early years of the Reagan era were a time of
> recession for most American businesses. To bring them out of this
> slump, Atari has big plans for the 5200 and even bigger ones for the
> still-on-the-drawing-board 7800, which promises to outperform all
> video-game systems.
> * - In a desperate move, the Nintendo/Sega alliance makes a deal with
> Warner Communications: Sell off the consumer division of Atari to an
> idiot who would likely run it to the ground. In return, the alliance
> would insure that its powerful lobbyists would petition Congressmen to
> lighten up on antitrust laws barring Warner from acquiring or merging
> with other media companies. This should be a cinch to do, considering
> the Reagan administration's "free trade" and "hands off" policy
> regarding business. Executives at Warner, preferring to control one
> big pie rather than having to worry about several pies, accepts the
> deal.
> * - (Late 1983) Warner publicly announces the financial losses of Atari
> for the year and states misgivings about the video-game business.
> Among their statements is that America is tiring of video games. The
> mass media jumps on the bandwagon, adding that Atari's games are
> "blocky looking" and "dinky sounding", too. Atari stock plummets.
> * - Warner announces the sale of Atari's home division to Jack "The Patsy"
> Tramiel. Tramiel, the mastermind behind the Commodore Vic-20 fiasco,
> declares that the new Atari, Atari Corp., will be in the business of
> selling computers which everyone can afford. He fails to add,
> however, that hardly anyone will want them.
> * - Warner retains the coin-op division of Atari, renaming it Atari Games.
> Two years later, in keeping to their agreement with the Nintendo/Sega
> alliance , they sell it for a killing to the Japanese company Namco,
> the inventors of Pac-Man.
> * - In the same year, Nintendo introduces the NES. After "careful
> evaluation of the previous market", they state that the time is right
> for a new generation of video games. Among the NES' selling points
> are Robbie the Robot and its pad controllers, which are essentially
> improved versions of the Intellivision's.
> * - Having accomplished their mutual goal, Nintendo and Sega cease their
> alliance. It's agreed that Sega will stick to the arcade coin-op
> industry , where it has become #1 after Atari's demise, and stay out
> of the consumer market. Likewise, Nintendo promises to concentrate
> only on home video-gaming and keep out of the arcade scene, except for
> an occasional, badly produced coin-op such as Super Mario Bros. and
> Rad Racer that will only be available for play in kiddie "pizza-time
> theater" restaurants.
> * - Jack Tramiel nearly runs Atari Corp. into the ground, thanks to his
> purchase of the Federated electronic stores and saying stupid, already
> known facts such as Apple computers being "too expensive" and IBM
> systems as "inefficient".
> * - The temptation for Sega is too strong, and so they ally themselves
> with Tonka Toys and jointly enter the home market with the Sega Master
> System, sparking a blood feud with their former ally that continues to
> this day. This venture fails, but Sega is even more determined to "do
> it all".
> * - (1988) Warner Communications merges with Time Inc., forming the Time
> Warner company. The new company acquires controlling interest in
> Atlantic Records. Time Warner is responsible for the Batman motion
> picture and its inevitable, upcoming sequels.
> * - In the January 9th, 1992 issue of Rolling Stone (with Michael Jackson
> on the cover trying to look like a man) there's an article on Sigeru
> Miyamoto, the twisted genius behind Nintendo's "Mario" games. David
> Sheff writes, "...Japanese software, such as books, movies and
> recordings, has had little impact outside Japan. The exception is
> video games. One Japanese writer. ..has noted that Nintendo is
> Japan's largest cultural export, 'bigger than Akira Kurosawa.'"
> Ever wondered how Nintendo got off so easily in their recent court
> settlement with California's Attorney General? Killing off Atari was by
> no means easy for Nintendo, but they did it. Thus, having their sentence
> reduced to a paltry $5 rebate plan couldn't have been that difficult for
> them to do. And look at their past court cases against Tengen, the home
> division of Atari Games, and their attempts to acquire the Seattle
> Mariners.
> Also, why has Sega -- like their trademark mascot, Sonic the Hedgehog
> been such an annoying, arrogant pest to Nintendo? Because they're
> aggressive competitors? Right. They're still resentful over their former
> pact because they felt they got the raw end of the deal.
> The one thing that didn't go as planned for Nintendo and Sega was that
> Atari didn't die completely. Today, Atari Corp. would probably be
> nonexistant if it weren't for the Lynx, originally designed by Epyx, which
> has turned out to be their lifesaver for the time being. Otherwise, the
> Nintendo/Sega alliance pulled off the perfect coup. Software support has
> always been a problem for Atari Corp.'s hardware since the company doesn't
> have the resources of an arcade division. "Divide and conquer" as the
> saying goes.
> I'm not the only one who knows of this insidious plot. I suspect that
> Arnie Katz and the Game "Bill Kunkel" Doctor know it as well, have known
> about it all along, and are keeping mum. However, I doubt they're doing
> this because they're covering up for Nintendo and Sega. Rather, they
> might've been warned to keep their mouths shut by the perpetrators. You
> have to remember that in the latter years of Electronic Games (just before
> the magazine was retitled Computer Entertainment), Katz and the Doc were
> mysteriously absent from its pages, for reasons they care not to
> elaborate. Had they discovered the truth and already knew of Nintendo's
> plans as early as 1984?
> I'll bet Steve "Arnie Katz Lookalike-and-Wannabee" Harris of
> Electronic Gaming Monthly knows a lot about all of this, too. His
> magazine has been bankrolled by Japanese investment from the very start
> (when it was originally Electronic Game Player). Ever noticed how Harris
> and Quarterman are a lot like Katz and the Doc in terms of concept, though
> radically different in style? I doubt this is coincidence rather than by
> design.
> Another whom I believe knows a lot more than he's willing to tell is
> Howard "TV Weatherman Dress-Alike" Phillips, the former Nintendo
> spokesperson who left his position for a conspiciously ambiguous role with
> Lucasfilm Games. Did he learn the truth, too, and decide to get out for
> his own safety, thus, depriving Nester someone to be a sidekick for? A
> while ago, I got a phone call from someone who sounded suspiciously
> familiar:
> "V-Video Guy! Listen -- you've got to get out! You're way over your
> head!"
> "Who is this? Howard?? Is this Howard Phillips?!"
> "Didn't you read the ***damn business section today?? They got the
> ****ing California Attorney General?! The ****ing Attorney General of
> California!! Not even Larry Flynt's ****ing lawyers can protect you!
> I'm warning you as a colleague -- just drop it if you know what's
> ***damn ****ing good for you!!"
> Well, I'm not going to drop it, Howard (or whoever you are). The
> assassination of Atari was the single most horrible event for an entire
> generation of video-gaming. It tore the heart out from what promised to
> be a new age of electronic entertainment - - never mind that it had
> primitive graphics and anemic sound. It robbed the dreams of those who
> were the first to put their hands around a joystick. And, by golly, you
> can be sure that I'm going to keep at it -- till all the files and other
> relevant papers that are locked away in some big government building
> sort-of-place are released so that the video-gaming public can decide for
> themselves what really happened on that fateful day in 1983.
> So there you have it, Debbie. The TRUTH. Now you know why
> video-gaming is in the state it is. And why movies and pop music have
> especially sucked lately. I'll tell you, every day I wonder how safe it
> is to live in the U.S. of A. when even our own video games are dripping
> with corruption and greed. Oh, and thanks for the kind words. We at
> VG&CE always strive to do our best for readers like you!
>*********
>end included text
>*********
>Anyone else know anything about this?
>--
>Christopher A. Joseph (Chris)
> al...@cleveland.freenet.edu
> Waiting impatiently for nanotechnology...
--
Do not adjust your mind, it is reality that is malfunctioning.
Teh Kao Yang
>> * - (Middle 1983) Atari reports losses in the millions since its
>> ownership under Warner Communications. This is not unusual
>> considering that the early years of the Reagan era were a time of
>> recession for most American businesses. To bring them out of this
>> slump, Atari has big plans for the 5200 and even bigger ones for the
>> still-on-the-drawing-board 7800, which promises to outperform all
>> video-game systems.
Hmmm... I thought the reason Atari dropped out of the video game scene was
because they just got too discouraged by their losses and gave up. I remember
that they incurred huge losses from their "E.T." game. They hyped the game
a lot and predicted that it would sell millions of copies, but it ended up
being such a flop that they were left with millions of copies sitting in
warehouses collecting dust.
However what still mystifies me is why the 5200 didn't do well and why they
waited so long to introduce the 7800. I think that what happened was that
arcade video game technology was getting too far ahead of the 2600 and even
the 5200, and that people just started losing interest in them. Also at
this point it appeared that the Japanese video games were surpassing the
American ones in terms of graphic quality. Or to put it another way they
looked "prettier" or "cuter".
>> Well, I'm not going to drop it, Howard (or whoever you are). The
>> assassination of Atari was the single most horrible event for an entire
>> generation of video-gaming. It tore the heart out from what promised to
>> be a new age of electronic entertainment - - never mind that it had
>> primitive graphics and anemic sound.
Well I wouldn't go that far. I think Atari's death was definitely a transfer
of power in the video game arena from the U.S. to Japan. Whether this is good
or bad is a matter of personal opinion. Whether it was a deliberated plan on
the part of the Japanese or just bad luck for Atari is still open to
speculation.
A conspiracy involving Japanese companies doesn't sound farfetched at all,
considering what Japanese semiconductor companies have done in the past.
-Teh Kao
Philip Brown
c15...@dv349-3f.berkeley.edu (Teh Kao Yang) writes:
>Well I wouldn't go that far. I think Atari's death was definitely a transfer
>of power in the video game arena from the U.S. to Japan. Whether this is good
>or bad is a matter of personal opinion. Whether it was a deliberated plan on
>the part of the Japanese or just bad luck for Atari is still open to
>speculation.
>A conspiracy involving Japanese companies doesn't sound farfetched at all,
>considering what Japanese semiconductor companies have done in the past.
>-Teh Kao
'Scuse me but... isn't Atari a JAPANESE company?
Look at the name, even!!!
Robert A. Jung
>In article <rdippold.706139958@cancun> rdip...@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>> * - (Middle 1983) Atari reports losses in the millions since its
>> ownership under Warner Communications. This is not unusual
>> considering that the early years of the Reagan era were a time of
>> recession for most American businesses. To bring them out of this
>> slump, Atari has big plans for the 5200 and even bigger ones for the
>> still-on-the-drawing-board 7800, which promises to outperform all
>> video-game systems.
>
>Hmmm... I thought the reason Atari dropped out of the video game scene was
>because they just got too discouraged by their losses and gave up. I remember
>that they incurred huge losses from their "E.T." game.
No, monetary losses was the primary factor. Actually, Atari Inc. didn't make
any decisions to drop out of the video-game business; if it was up to them,
they would have just continued along, and wrote E.T. off. Warners, on the
other hand, was looking at the bottom line, and decided to dump the firm. Or
in simpler terms, Atari didn't get discouraged, but Warners did.
Either that, or I'm another ignorant stoolie who's bought the great Atari
Failure Cover-Up... B-)
>However what still mystifies me is why the 5200 didn't do well and why they
>waited so long to introduce the 7800. I think that what happened was that
>arcade video game technology was getting too far ahead of the 2600 and even
>the 5200, and that people just started losing interest in them.
One thing that DEFINETELY did not help were Atari's own internal
squabblings. Before the great Warner Drop, Atari Inc. was divided into war
zones into three components: home video games (2600, 5200, 7800), home
computers (400, 800), and arcade games (too many to name).
The 5200 is a perfect example: functionally speaking, it was just a
repackaged Atari 400/800 computer, and smart marketing would have quickly (and
easily) released the 5200 with a ton of games, as well as Computer Expansion
Modules (ala the Coleco Adam and others) and more goodies. Instead, because of
the feuding between the Home Video Game and Home Computer divisions, steps
were taken to DELIBERATELY make the two unfriendly and incompatable. Why
couldn't the 5200 accept Atari computer cartridges directly? Why couldn't the
5200 use "Atari standard" joysticks? Simple, petty, in-house bickering.
If the 5200 promotion was managed with an executive using a Nintendo or
Sega-mentality, it would have blown away the 2600, locked up the home computer
and video game markets for Atari with one fell swoop, and ensured Atari's
dominance of video entertainment for many years to come.
>Also at
>this point it appeared that the Japanese video games were surpassing the
>American ones in terms of graphic quality. Or to put it another way they
>looked "prettier" or "cuter".
I don't think there were that many Japanese video games out at the time, and
certainly not with the dominance we see today. Besides, the Japanese firms
were gladly licensing their stuff to the American companies -- note the
adaptations of DONKEY KONG and its sequels to Atari from Nintendo, for
instance.
>> Well, I'm not going to drop it, Howard (or whoever you are). The
>> assassination of Atari was the single most horrible event for an entire
>> generation of video-gaming.
>
>Well I wouldn't go that far. I think Atari's death was definitely a transfer
>of power in the video game arena from the U.S. to Japan. Whether this is good
>or bad is a matter of personal opinion. Whether it was a deliberated plan on
>the part of the Japanese or just bad luck for Atari is still open to
>speculation.
>
>A conspiracy involving Japanese companies doesn't sound farfetched at all,
>considering what Japanese semiconductor companies have done in the past.
As entertaining as the original message was, I don't believe that Atari's
downfall in the '80s was due to a Japanese conspiracy. The original message
is meant more as a humorous parody of "JFK"-assassination plots than anything
else. I agree that the fall of Atari and the rise of Nintendo was a sharp
transfer of power (and is already a prominent event in the annals of video-
gaming history), but I don't think there was an "assassination plan"...
--R.J.
B-)
//////////////////////////////////////|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Send whatevers to rj...@usc.edu | If it has pixels, I'm for it.
--------------------------------------+------------------------------Lynx up!
"You weren't chosen because you are the best pilot in the Air Force. You were
chosen because you are the class clown and frankly, you're expendable."
James Hague
hyped up to ridiculous levels and the actual cartridges being
of below average quality. Pac-Man started things rolling,
though millions of them were sold. Then there were all the
REALLY trashy games from third party manufacturers that look
like they were programming over a weekend (yet they were
pushed in two-page color ads in all the game magazines or
even advertised on prime time TV). Atari's E.T. was the
straw that broke the camel's back,
[If later games like Millipede and Solaris and Ms. Pac
Man had been released in 1982-3 instead of E.T., Raiders
of the Lost Ark, and Swordquest: Earthworld, then things
might not have been so bad.]
Also bear in mind that Atari was losing on the home computer
front, because of the price war initiated by Commodore between
the C-64 and Atari 800.
--
James Hague
exu...@exu.ericsson.se
Bob Malay
Somebody ought to call Geraldo Rivera and let him in on this!
Bob Malay
David A. Johnson
In a previous article, ph...@cats.ucsc.edu (Philip Brown) says:
>'Scuse me but... isn't Atari a JAPANESE company?
> Look at the name, even!!!
Uhh, no. Atari (Corp., at least) is and always has been an American
company. It was started by an American (Nolan Bushnell) and has remained
under American ownership ever since. True, the name is a Japanese word,
but the company itself is American. (Atari's world headquarters are
in California.)
After twenty years, you'd think maybe people would know that Atari is an
American company... No such luck, apparently. (I believe Saturday Night
Live got it wrong this past season too, placing a Japanese man, complete
with stereotypical attitudes toward American workers, as the CEO of Atari.
What a disservice.)
--
_________________ David "Chuckie" Johnson _________________
"I'm \ aq...@cleveland.freenet.edu / ...no one
looking for \ dal...@irie.ais.org / seems to have."
something... \ Motto: "Diversity in Injury" / -Mudhoney
Ralph Barbagallo
>>This was taken off of Delphi by STReport, an Atari oriented newsletter:
>
Quick! Call Oliver Stone! I see a movie developing here!
SEGA had been making games long before that, before video games were
even around. Basically amusment devices for penny arcades etc. Am I
correct? What's my point? I dunno.
>
>> * - Atari sells over five million units of Pac-Man for their 2600 unit.
>> Sears declares the cartridge the second fastest selling item they've
>> ever carried. Seeing how Atari is so powerful that it can literally
>> slap together an atrociously bad arcade translation and make nearly a
>> billion dollars unsettles the Nintendo/Sega alliance. Prompted also
>> by the fact that Mattel's superior Intellivision still isn't taking
>> off (despite TV endorsements by boring George Plimpton and what
>> Nintendo/Sega feels is its excellent pad controllers), they decide to
>> back off for now.
I still fail to see why Japan would be so hell bent on taking over the
still yet-to-be proven (at the time) Video Game market when they could be busy (and they
were) taking over other formerly American areas of development.. including
TVs, VCRs, etc. All American inventions.. however, this is taking it a bit
too far...
>
>> * - (Late 1982) Nintendo cohorts with Coleco to bring Donkey Kong to the
>> former leather company's new ColecoVision system, and Sega
>> contributes their equally bland Turbo. Despite much fanfare and
>> moderate consumer interest, the system only does slightly better than
>> mediocre. The Atari 2600, primitive as it is, still manages to
>> maintain its majority share in the industry. The Nintendo/Sega
>> alliance seems to be going nowhere.
It's called liscensing..not a devious plot to overthrow Atari. If it was
such a big conspiracy, why did Coleco gain the rights to produce both Donkey
Kong and Turbo for the Atari 2600? (Although Turbo never made it..Donkey Kong
did..)
>
>> * - (Middle 1983) Atari reports losses in the millions since its
>> ownership under Warner Communications. This is not unusual
>> considering that the early years of the Reagan era were a time of
>> recession for most American businesses. To bring them out of this
>> slump, Atari has big plans for the 5200 and even bigger ones for the
>> still-on-the-drawing-board 7800, which promises to outperform all
>> video-game systems.
Don't you think it was a bit idiotic to leak news about the 7800 while the
5200 still hadn't been released yet?
>
>> * - In a desperate move, the Nintendo/Sega alliance makes a deal with
>> Warner Communications: Sell off the consumer division of Atari to an
>> idiot who would likely run it to the ground. In return, the alliance
>> would insure that its powerful lobbyists would petition Congressmen to
>> lighten up on antitrust laws barring Warner from acquiring or merging
>> with other media companies. This should be a cinch to do, considering
>> the Reagan administration's "free trade" and "hands off" policy
>> regarding business. Executives at Warner, preferring to control one
>> big pie rather than having to worry about several pies, accepts the
>> deal.
>
>> * - (Late 1983) Warner publicly announces the financial losses of Atari
>> for the year and states misgivings about the video-game business.
>> Among their statements is that America is tiring of video games. The
>> mass media jumps on the bandwagon, adding that Atari's games are
>> "blocky looking" and "dinky sounding", too. Atari stock plummets.
>
>> * - Warner announces the sale of Atari's home division to Jack "The Patsy"
>> Tramiel. Tramiel, the mastermind behind the Commodore Vic-20 fiasco,
>> declares that the new Atari, Atari Corp., will be in the business of
>> selling computers which everyone can afford. He fails to add,
>> however, that hardly anyone will want them.
Didn't he have something to do with the MASSIVE success of the Commodore 64,
or was that Nolan Bushnell? I think it was Nolan..oops, disregard that last
statement..heheh. :)
>
>> * - Warner retains the coin-op division of Atari, renaming it Atari Games.
>> Two years later, in keeping to their agreement with the Nintendo/Sega
>> alliance , they sell it for a killing to the Japanese company Namco,
>> the inventors of Pac-Man.
I thought Namco bought out Atari Games just recently ('87-89).. I'm
probably wrong though.. (were they even bought out? maybe some employees
of Atari Games and former employees of Atari ..Hey Steve!.. can clear this
up..)
>
>> * - In the same year, Nintendo introduces the NES. After "careful
>> evaluation of the previous market", they state that the time is right
>> for a new generation of video games. Among the NES' selling points
>> are Robbie the Robot and its pad controllers, which are essentially
>> improved versions of the Intellivision's.
Is this guy claiming Nintendo STOLE Intellivision's disc-controller/control-
pad design? They used this same type of controller in their early handhelds
as well (of course it was just a bunch of buttons but it was functionally a
primitive control pad.......)
>
>> * - Having accomplished their mutual goal, Nintendo and Sega cease their
>> alliance. It's agreed that Sega will stick to the arcade coin-op
>> industry , where it has become #1 after Atari's demise, and stay out
>> of the consumer market. Likewise, Nintendo promises to concentrate
>> only on home video-gaming and keep out of the arcade scene, except for
>> an occasional, badly produced coin-op such as Super Mario Bros. and
>> Rad Racer that will only be available for play in kiddie "pizza-time
>> theater" restaurants.
Which is false. The commonly known "Play-Choice 10" systems can be put
anywhere. While they are COMMONLY seen in pizza joints, movie theaters,
etc. there are a great many of them in arcades as well. Plus, Super Mario
Brothers came out in '85-'86..before this fictional Nintendo/SEGA alliance
agreed to supposedly give Nintendo the home market and SEGA the arcade front.
>
>> * - Jack Tramiel nearly runs Atari Corp. into the ground, thanks to his
>> purchase of the Federated electronic stores and saying stupid, already
>> known facts such as Apple computers being "too expensive" and IBM
>> systems as "inefficient".
>
>> * - The temptation for Sega is too strong, and so they ally themselves
>> with Tonka Toys and jointly enter the home market with the Sega Master
>> System, sparking a blood feud with their former ally that continues to
>> this day. This venture fails, but Sega is even more determined to "do
>> it all".
Well geesh..they broke their pact pretty fast eh? Almost a year after the
NES' release...
>
>> * - (1988) Warner Communications merges with Time Inc., forming the Time
>> Warner company. The new company acquires controlling interest in
>> Atlantic Records. Time Warner is responsible for the Batman motion
>> picture and its inevitable, upcoming sequels.
So....
>
>> * - In the January 9th, 1992 issue of Rolling Stone (with Michael Jackson
>> on the cover trying to look like a man) there's an article on Sigeru
>> Miyamoto, the twisted genius behind Nintendo's "Mario" games. David
>> Sheff writes, "...Japanese software, such as books, movies and
>> recordings, has had little impact outside Japan. The exception is
>> video games. One Japanese writer. ..has noted that Nintendo is
>> Japan's largest cultural export, 'bigger than Akira Kurosawa.'"
>
>> Ever wondered how Nintendo got off so easily in their recent court
>> settlement with California's Attorney General? Killing off Atari was by
>> no means easy for Nintendo, but they did it. Thus, having their sentence
>> reduced to a paltry $5 rebate plan couldn't have been that difficult for
>> them to do. And look at their past court cases against Tengen, the home
>> division of Atari Games, and their attempts to acquire the Seattle
>> Mariners.
They got off so easily because each state got money for its complaints
about Nintendo's price fixing. It was enough dough for them to agree..
It may sound cheesy for you to get $5 off..but not to the state who got
some dough out of it...
>
>> Also, why has Sega -- like their trademark mascot, Sonic the Hedgehog
>> been such an annoying, arrogant pest to Nintendo? Because they're
>> aggressive competitors? Right. They're still resentful over their former
>> pact because they felt they got the raw end of the deal.
Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, SEGA wanted to sell more units so they had to come up
with a better mascot than the uninteresting Alexx Kidd. Sure, agressie
competitors..but not due to some absurd broken alliance...
>
>> The one thing that didn't go as planned for Nintendo and Sega was that
>> Atari didn't die completely. Today, Atari Corp. would probably be
>> nonexistant if it weren't for the Lynx, originally designed by Epyx, which
>> has turned out to be their lifesaver for the time being. Otherwise, the
>> Nintendo/Sega alliance pulled off the perfect coup. Software support has
>> always been a problem for Atari Corp.'s hardware since the company doesn't
>> have the resources of an arcade division. "Divide and conquer" as the
>> saying goes.
Actually there is an agreement with AtariGames for Tengen to produce
their arcade games for home play.
>
>> I'm not the only one who knows of this insidious plot. I suspect that
>> Arnie Katz and the Game "Bill Kunkel" Doctor know it as well, have known
>> about it all along, and are keeping mum. However, I doubt they're doing
>> this because they're covering up for Nintendo and Sega. Rather, they
>> might've been warned to keep their mouths shut by the perpetrators. You
>> have to remember that in the latter years of Electronic Games (just before
>> the magazine was retitled Computer Entertainment), Katz and the Doc were
>> mysteriously absent from its pages, for reasons they care not to
>> elaborate. Had they discovered the truth and already knew of Nintendo's
>> plans as early as 1984?
Oh yeah. Bill Kunkel, Andy Eddy, and Arnie Katz are all on the video game
Warren Commision. With the magic cartridge theory in full effect.
>
>> I'll bet Steve "Arnie Katz Lookalike-and-Wannabee" Harris of
>> Electronic Gaming Monthly knows a lot about all of this, too. His
>> magazine has been bankrolled by Japanese investment from the very start
>> (when it was originally Electronic Game Player). Ever noticed how Harris
>> and Quarterman are a lot like Katz and the Doc in terms of concept, though
>> radically different in style? I doubt this is coincidence rather than by
>> design.
Well, Harris and Quartermann are the same person. Quartermann is basically
the editors etc. of EGM writing under an Alias. Ever notice how the writing
style changes from issue to issue?
>
>> Another whom I believe knows a lot more than he's willing to tell is
>> Howard "TV Weatherman Dress-Alike" Phillips, the former Nintendo
>> spokesperson who left his position for a conspiciously ambiguous role with
>> Lucasfilm Games. Did he learn the truth, too, and decide to get out for
>> his own safety, thus, depriving Nester someone to be a sidekick for? A
>> while ago, I got a phone call from someone who sounded suspiciously
>> familiar:
He left for Lucasfilm because Lucasfilm gave him more money. He has quit
Lucasfilm, but I forget where he is now.. What, did Nintendo have an
assasin out for Howard Phillips or something..COME ON!
>
>> "V-Video Guy! Listen -- you've got to get out! You're way over your
>> head!"
>
>> "Who is this? Howard?? Is this Howard Phillips?!"
>
>> "Didn't you read the ***damn business section today?? They got the
>> ****ing California Attorney General?! The ****ing Attorney General of
>> California!! Not even Larry Flynt's ****ing lawyers can protect you!
>> I'm warning you as a colleague -- just drop it if you know what's
>> ***damn ****ing good for you!!"
It's amazing what a case of beer will do to a guy..
>
>> Well, I'm not going to drop it, Howard (or whoever you are). The
>> assassination of Atari was the single most horrible event for an entire
>> generation of video-gaming. It tore the heart out from what promised to
>> be a new age of electronic entertainment - - never mind that it had
>> primitive graphics and anemic sound. It robbed the dreams of those who
>> were the first to put their hands around a joystick. And, by golly, you
>> can be sure that I'm going to keep at it -- till all the files and other
>> relevant papers that are locked away in some big government building
>> sort-of-place are released so that the video-gaming public can decide for
>> themselves what really happened on that fateful day in 1983.
Violins, please....
>
>> So there you have it, Debbie. The TRUTH. Now you know why
>> video-gaming is in the state it is. And why movies and pop music have
>> especially sucked lately. I'll tell you, every day I wonder how safe it
>> is to live in the U.S. of A. when even our own video games are dripping
>> with corruption and greed. Oh, and thanks for the kind words. We at
>> VG&CE always strive to do our best for readers like you!
>>*********
>>end included text
>>*********
>
>
>>Anyone else know anything about this?
>
>>--
>>Christopher A. Joseph (Chris)
>> al...@cleveland.freenet.edu
>
>> Waiting impatiently for nanotechnology...
>--
>Do not adjust your mind, it is reality that is malfunctioning.
>
___________________________________________________________________
/ / \
/ Ralph A. Barbagallo III / Co-Editor of \
/ ----- / M I N D S T O R M \
\ nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us \ /
\ \ THE Newsletter for high-end gamers! /
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Game Informer, F.A.N., The Neucleus, Mind Storm, MAVGUG, check 'em!*
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert A. Jung
attention is because it was reprinted in ST Report. For those
non-Atari-computer owners, ST Report is an Atari-computer-oriented electronic
magazine that's gotten some notoriety for being quick to jump to rumors and
slander than for objective reporting.
Sorta an electronic version of The National Enquirer or Electronic Gaming
Monthly, actually...
Jeff Young
>> Tramiel. Tramiel, the mastermind behind the Commodore Vic-20 fiasco,
>> declares that the new Atari, Atari Corp., will be in the business of
>> selling computers which everyone can afford. He fails to add,
>> however, that hardly anyone will want them.
This history is WRONG! Warner sold Atari to Jack 'The Terminator' Tramiel
and sons. He made Commodore and used Vic-20 and C64 to wipe out Timex,
TI, Mattel, Coleco, Microsoft MSX, BBC, and even Atari!!
AFTER he bought Atari and made ST and paid ex Atari engineers for Amiga
chips. Amiga company was almost sold to Atari but The Terminator
BLEW AWAY Amiga people with LOW OFFER. After Atari made 520 ST
Jack retired to beach (almost like Irving and Medi at C=!)
and Tramiel sons SHOT Atari in foot every year after..
Good news is that The Terminator is BACK!!! He will force all
prices DOWN by selling Falcons and Jaguars like C64.
That is history and future of Atari.
Len Stys
In a previous article, jyo...@isis.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) says:
>In article <rdippold.706139958@cancun> rdip...@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>>
>>> * - Warner announces the sale of Atari's home division to Jack "The Patsy"
>>> Tramiel. Tramiel, the mastermind behind the Commodore Vic-20 fiasco,
>>> declares that the new Atari, Atari Corp., will be in the business of
>>> selling computers which everyone can afford. He fails to add,
>>> however, that hardly anyone will want them.
>
>This history is WRONG! Warner sold Atari to Jack 'The Terminator' Tramiel
>and sons. He made Commodore and used Vic-20 and C64 to wipe out Timex,
>TI, Mattel, Coleco, Microsoft MSX, BBC, and even Atari!!
>
>AFTER he bought Atari and made ST and paid ex Atari engineers for Amiga
>chips. Amiga company was almost sold to Atari but The Terminator
>BLEW AWAY Amiga people with LOW OFFER. After Atari made 520 ST
>Jack retired to beach (almost like Irving and Medi at C=!)
>and Tramiel sons SHOT Atari in foot every year after..
>
>
>Good news is that The Terminator is BACK!!! He will force all
>prices DOWN by selling Falcons and Jaguars like C64.
>That is history and future of Atari.
>
It is funny how you call him "Terminator" because he does seem like one.
"I'll be back" and he certainly has been back and many people expect him to
be worse than he was before...
--
Mike Whalen
wrote:
EH> I think the downfall of the 2600 was a matter of games being
EH> hyped up to ridiculous levels and the actual cartridges being
EH> of below average quality. Pac-Man started things rolling,
EH> though millions of them were sold. Then there were all the
EH> REALLY trashy games from third party manufacturers that look
EH> like they were programming over a weekend (yet they were
EH> pushed in two-page color ads in all the game magazines or
EH> even advertised on prime time TV). Atari's E.T. was the
EH> straw that broke the camel's back,
On the contrary, I believe that Atari was getting better and managing
their machine. Heck.. I know that it became a love/hate thing with
SwordQuest (or whatever it was called) series.. but I have seen it and I
always felt that it was a very nicely done game and worthy.
EH> [If later games like Millipede and Solaris and Ms. Pac
EH> Man had been released in 1982-3 instead of E.T., Raiders
EH> of the Lost Ark, and Swordquest: Earthworld, then things
EH> might not have been so bad.]
Hmmm.. I had always thought that Raiders of The Lost Ark was a giant
seller because of the movie back-up and the fact that it was one of the
first RPGs ever on the Atari. It was a very complicated game and nicely
done.. very innovative for it's time.
EH> Also bear in mind that Atari was losing on the home computer
EH> front, because of the price war initiated by Commodore between
EH> the C-64 and Atari 800.
This I can't argue with. The 64 was released at a price around $500 or
$600 then dropped closer to $200. Hehe.
Mike..
-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
Yet another fine quality message from.. Mike Whalen Brand Message Prod.
If you like it.. you like it.. if not... FNORD!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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UUCP: rex!agwbbs!Mike_Whalen
Mike Whalen
wrote:
MD> This is just a clever parody of JFK (The movie) right? Due to
MD> effort that was involved in writing this, I'm not 100% sure. (Okay,
MD> I'm
MD> gullible.) I think this article deserves a few smileys at the end.
MD> 8-)
Don't be so quick to dismiss this. Any company who literally has to pay
back it's consumers because they overcharged them on a nation-wide level
comes under some scrutiny in my book.
It is obvious they are willing to do what they can to satisfy their tast
for money.. and I really wouldn't put it past them to do something such as
this.
Mike Whalen
wrote:
CC> However what still mystifies me is why the 5200 didn't do well and
CC> why they
CC> waited so long to introduce the 7800. I think that what happened was
CC> that
CC> arcade video game technology was getting too far ahead of the 2600
CC> and even
CC> the 5200, and that people just started losing interest in them. Also
CC> at
CC> this point it appeared that the Japanese video games were surpassing
CC> the
CC> American ones in terms of graphic quality. Or to put it another way
CC> they
CC> looked "prettier" or "cuter".
It didn't seem like, at the time, that they really knew where they wanted
to go. I remember the "super system" blueprints for at least a year before
anybody even uttered the word 7800. This was in magazines like Atari Age.
CC> Well I wouldn't go that far. I think Atari's death was definitely a
CC> transfer
CC> of power in the video game arena from the U.S. to Japan. Whether this
CC> is good
CC> or bad is a matter of personal opinion. Whether it was a deliberated
CC> plan on
CC> the part of the Japanese or just bad luck for Atari is still open to
CC> speculation.
CC> A conspiracy involving Japanese companies doesn't sound farfetched at
CC> all,
CC> considering what Japanese semiconductor companies have done in the
CC> past.
That's the problem. This all sounds too plausible. Given Nintendo's
obviously blatent use of power, I would not put it past them even for a
second. It's a shame.. but you really have to realize that when Nintendo
was told to offer that rebate, it was because.. unless I misunderstood the
circumstance, they ripped off the consumers! They had to pay for it. But no
one cared.. they just kept on buying Nintendo merchandise. I don't know
about you.. but if I ever.. say.. took my car in for repairs and kept
having problems then found out later the guy was sued by a person who says
he's doing it on purpose and the machanic lost.. I don't take my car back
there.
Kent Sandvik
aq...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David A. Johnson) writes:
> After twenty years, you'd think maybe people would know that Atari is an
> American company... No such luck, apparently. (I believe Saturday Night
> Live got it wrong this past season too, placing a Japanese man, complete
> with stereotypical attitudes toward American workers, as the CEO of Atari.
> What a disservice.)
Speak about Atari and Nazi holocaust camps. Someone might present a nice
story about the current CEO of Atari...
Cheers,
Kent
Mike Whalen
wrote:
>
> It didn't seem like, at the time, that they really knew where they
wanted
>to go. I remember the "super system" blueprints for at least a year before
>anybody even uttered the word 7800. This was in magazines like Atari Age.
EH> Oh yeah. There was a lot of talk in 1983 about something called the
EH> Atari Video System X. I guess it ended up being the 7800, but the
EH> articles I remember reading on System X included a lot of stuff which
EH> the 7800 doesn't have--some hot "new" sound chip for example
Welll.. a lot of companies boast about "new technology" in all their
future plans. I guess what I am going on more is that in the last few
months of Atari Age, they referred to the prvious "article" and said it was
going to be called the 7800. This was right before Atari Age bit the dust.
EH> And I actually like Raiders and Earthworld for the 2600. But I
EH> think they were hyped up way beyond the quality of the actual
EH> games. At the time, I think the public wanted an addictive arcade
EH> game along the lines of Pac-Man or Missile Command; games like
EH> Earthworld and E.T. weren't much fun unless you really got into
EH> them. Remember, Nintendo style "solve 'em" games hadn't gotten
EH> popular yet.
That's not necessarily true. Nintendo style "solve 'em" games may not
have been as popular as today.. but it's still going to appeal to MANY
people. I know for a fact that it appealed great to RPG fans like D&D and
the ones that were available at the time. I liked them.. my friends like
them. You have to get into those games because they are RPGs. If you
don't.. or you don't like involved games such as those, you won't like
them. Heck.. I liked Raiders.. but I really can't stand newer RPG that span
several megabytes. I just can't get into it enough to want to solve them.
But then that's my opinion.
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
> Look at the name, even!!!
Well, I don't know if the company is Japanese, but the name sure is. As soon as
I read this, I dug out my Japanese dictionary and looked it up. What I saw was
probably the most ironic definition ever. According to the dictionary I have,
at least, the Japanese word "atari" is translated as (are you ready for this?)
- Success. Matta ne.
-=]> Max <[=-
+----------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Han - Listen! We don't have time to | "Riryoku no aran koto wo." |
| discuss this IN COMMITTEE! | comptec89007@ |
| Leia - I am NOT A COMMITTEE! | camins.camosun.bc.ca |
+----------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Ralph Barbagallo
>In a message dated Mon 18 May 92 23:17, Nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (ralph Ba
>wrote:
>
>>> alliance with Japan's #1 coin-op game company Sega (producers of
>>> pretty looking but quickly boring-to-play arcade games) to look at
>the
>>> possibility of unseating Atari in the video-game marketplace.
>
> NB> were
> NB> even around. Basically amusment devices for penny arcades etc. Am I
> NB> correct? What's my point? I dunno.
>
> Don't know about that. Just don't have the knowledge. I do know that
>Turbo wasn't very good, IMHO.. neither was TacScan.
I belive they did. I remember SEGA had a heliocopter game where you
manuvered several miniature heliocopters around with levers in some sort of
plastic case. A primitive SEGA release.. I think around the '70s.
I thought TURBO was excellent. Tac-Scan, while ugly, was fun. If SEGA
was so hell bent on destroying Atari why did they produce Congo Bongo,
Tac-Scan, Thunderground, and many other arcade/original titles over to
the 2600?
>
> NB> I still fail to see why Japan would be so hell bent on taking over
> NB> the
> NB> still yet-to-be proven (at the time) Video Game market when they
> NB> could be busy (and they
> NB> were) taking over other formerly American areas of development..
> NB> including
> NB> TVs, VCRs, etc. All American inventions.. however, this is taking
> NB> it a bit
> NB> too far...
>
> The video game market was WELL proven. Atari was making millions on their
>set of machines and carts.. not to mention the third-party developers.
>Nintendo, and you can't argue with the fact that if a company will rip off
>consumers all over the world (they were forced to pay some back..
>remember!), they are pretty much going to do suspicious acts to get money.
You call 2 years of mass popularity well proven? While coin ops had been
around since '71, and home pong systems were a bit younger, the home and
ardcade video game industry reached 2 years of peak activity '81-'82. 2
years is hardly enough to "prove" a new industry.
>
> The article states that Japan wanted to export their culture. Culture is
>a tricky thing. A country can get really egotistical about their culture
>and want other countries to experience it. So, they would look for ways to
>export it. VCRs, TVs, and the like are exported technology. A cultural
>export would be in the form of literary or artistic works. TV PROGRAMMES,
>video tapes with movies.. or programmes on them, movies.. radio shows..
>etc. And yes, video games.
>
> NB> It's called liscensing..not a devious plot to overthrow Atari. If
> NB> it was
> NB> such a big conspiracy, why did Coleco gain the rights to produce both
> NB> Donkey
> NB> Kong and Turbo for the Atari 2600? (Although Turbo never made
> NB> it..Donkey Kong
> NB> did..)
>
> Well.. maybe they felt that the Colecovision would topple Atari. I
>remember the Coleco.. it looked like the greatest thing ever. However, I
>can think of many people I knew at the time who said something along the
>lines of, "It's overpriced.. and I already have 70 some odd games for my
>2600!"
It still doesn't prove why this fictional alliance would give Coleco the
rights to produce and distribute Atari ports of some of their most popular
arcade titles. Turbo, Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, etc. Heck, Donkey Kong sold
millions of units... just made Atari more popular..didn't damage Atari..
(I think the figure was like 10 million units sold...)
>
> NB> Don't you think it was a bit idiotic to leak news about the 7800
> NB> while the
> NB> 5200 still hadn't been released yet?
>
> Maybe it's idiotic but they did it. They didn't have a name for it at the
>time, but they did it through the House Organ Atari Age.
>
> NB> Is this guy claiming Nintendo STOLE Intellivision's disc-
> NB> controller/control-
> NB> pad design? They used this same type of controller in their early
> NB> handhelds
> NB> as well (of course it was just a bunch of buttons but it was
> NB> functionally a
> NB> primitive control pad.......)
>
> It would depend. I don't remember when Nintendos handhelds appeared. If
>they appeared AFTER the Intellivision (the original one mind you), they
>could have been very interested in the design and did their own version.
>Joysticks.. which was Atari's trademark, died with the release of the
>Nintendo in 87. No one does joysticks anymore (in regards to NEC, Nin, and
>Seg). If Nintendo and Sega liked Intellivsion's IDEA, they could have built
>on it. Course those damn Intell-pads kept breaking on me.
Those intellivision pads were terribly innacurate. Anyway, nobody makes
sticks anymore? Nintendo makes the Advantage, SEGA makes the Powerstick..they
even made a joystick for the Sega Master System.. SNK ONLY makes sticks for
their systems..and NEC has the TurboSTick. 3rd parties also make sticks
like the Power Clutch and the Stealth controllers..
>
> NB> Which is false. The commonly known "Play-Choice 10" systems can be
> NB> put
> NB> anywhere. While they are COMMONLY seen in pizza joints, movie
> NB> theaters,
> NB> etc. there are a great many of them in arcades as well. Plus, Super
> NB> Mario
> NB> Brothers came out in '85-'86..before this fictional Nintendo/SEGA
> NB> alliance
> NB> agreed to supposedly give Nintendo the home market and SEGA the
> NB> arcade front.
>
> I am not sure he's referring to the Play Choice. But.. I do see YOUR
>point. If he is, he is wrong.
He's got to be reffering to the Play Choice or Vs. system. Rad Racer was
never a full-fledge coin op. Rather a NES game that was later available
for arcade play in the PlayChoice 10s, and Vs. units.
>
> NB> Well geesh..they broke their pact pretty fast eh? Almost a year
> NB> after the
> NB> NES' release...
>
> When enemies achieve their common goal.. do they not go their seperate
>ways? We did not know the relationship.. if any between Nintendo and Sega
>before this supposed (and it is supposed for now) pact. Besides.. what if..
>just what if Nintendo was arrogant enough that they felt that they didn't
>"need" Sega anymore?
They did not achieve a common goal. Atari was still alive..the 2600 was
still in production. Also, Coleco was still making the ColecoVison in
1985..perhaps the earliest date that the NES was released.. Why didn't
this big Nintendo/SEGA alliance help out Coleco? Later on, Telgames U.S.A.
bought the rights to Coleco's technology and redid the system as the
Personal Arcade. Same hardware, just different look and controllers. Why
didn't they help out Telegames? Also the NES hadn't caught on yet, so
they didn't reach the goal of conquering the home market yet. The revival
of the home market didn't reall get going until '87-'88. The SMS came out
in late '86 I belive, before the NES and the new home market really got
going.
>
> NB> They got off so easily because each state got money for its
> NB> complaints
> NB> about Nintendo's price fixing. It was enough dough for them to
> NB> agree..
> NB> It may sound cheesy for you to get $5 off..but not to the state who
> NB> got
> NB> some dough out of it...
>
> Don't YOU think it's pretty cheesy for a company who's got a strong hold
>on a portion of our culture to PULL something like that on it's patrons!
>That's low and downrght disgusting. Just because they did this put them
>under scrutiny in my book!
Yes, but the states agreed to it because THEY got money also..
>
> NB> Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, SEGA wanted to sell more units so they had to
> NB> come up
> NB> with a better mascot than the uninteresting Alexx Kidd. Sure,
> NB> agressie
> NB> competitors..but not due to some absurd broken alliance...
>
>True..
>
> NB> Well, Harris and Quartermann are the same person. Quartermann is
> NB> basically
> NB> the editors etc. of EGM writing under an Alias. Ever notice how the
> NB> writing
> NB> style changes from issue to issue?
>
> Quartermann is an utter moron.
>
> NB> He left for Lucasfilm because Lucasfilm gave him more money. He
> NB> has quit
> NB> Lucasfilm, but I forget where he is now.. What, did Nintendo have
> NB> an
> NB> assasin out for Howard Phillips or something..COME ON!
>
> Hmm.. he didn leave rather quietly. No news or anything. Usually a mascot
>for a major company would give his reasons for leaving...
Do you think that Nintendo would advertise that a major creative force
behind a lot of their projects had left the staff? I don't think so. That
would create some trouble with bad press and maybe angry investors..
>
>Mike..
>
>-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
>
>Yet another fine quality message from.. Mike Whalen Brand Message Prod.
>If you like it.. you like it.. if not... FNORD!
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>InterNet: Mike_...@agwbbs.new-orleans.la.us
>UUCP: rex!agwbbs!Mike_Whalen
>
>
Gerald (Jerry) KUCH
What? That Jack Tramiel was in Auschwitz and worked at one point as slave
labor on the construction of the autobahn in Germany? What nice story
do you want linking him to Nazi camps?
Let's keep the conspiracies separate...I can hear it now..."Jack Tramiel,
working for the International Jewish Banking Media Home Computer Major
League Baseball Conspiracy infiltrated the business community by becoming
a slave laborer...the use of DIN plugs on most of Atari's home computer
I/O ports is clear evidence of the Nazi influence on...blah blah blah..."
This post was not a flame.
>Cheers,
>Kent
--
Jerry Kuch (je...@cs.mcgill.ca) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
"I was wrong to play God. Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet."
--- M. Burns "Treehouse of Horror II"
Robert A. Jung
>And I actually like Raiders and Earthworld for the 2600. But I
Part of the problem was that solving these adventures required lots of trial
and error; player feedback and clues ("You must see S'amus by the Blue moon
for news") didn't exist at the time. I can almost forgive that for EARTHWORLD,
since it was part of the Atari Swordquest maxi-mega-bucks contest, and
_should_ have been a tough nut to crack, but still...
(ADVENTURE and SUPERMAN remain two of the best 2600 adventure games ever
written, IMO)
>Remember, Nintendo style "solve 'em" games hadn't gotten
>popular yet.
Another good point. RPGs for video games didn't really come into being until
THE LEGEND OF ZELDA for the Nintendo, though there were some earlier games
that did respectably (NES ULTIMA comes to mind). Of course, Japanese video
gamers were into RPGs long before American players were...
...but I _still_ don't believe the "Atari Execution Conspiracy" theory,
though I do admit it was amusing to read.
Steven Sether
read it, and send me a copy of the Rom image? Is this one of the ROMS
in the FTP Rom image site?
Thanks
Bob_BobR...@cup.portal.com
Amusing bullshit, but bullshit nonetheless...
Atari recently tried to sue Nintendo, saying that Nintendo had
somehow created a monopoly and through "unfair competition"
had taken most of the video game market..
The judge said, in effect.. "bullshit".. and ordered Atari Corp
to pay a million dollars in court costs to Nintendo.
What an amazing scam... you blow away your market for your
product... blow away your dealer network, blow away your
software developers... and then file suit against someone
who's taken the time and money to develop a good product and
market, thinking that the current "anti-Japan" feelings in the
US of A will get you anything you want...
I love my Atari computer, but I'm GLAD the courts slapped Atari
down on this one...
Maybe now they'll try coming out with a REAL product this time..?
BobR
Mike Whalen
wrote:
NB> I belive they did. I remember SEGA had a heliocopter game where
NB> you
NB> manuvered several miniature heliocopters around with levers in some
NB> sort of
NB> plastic case. A primitive SEGA release.. I think around the '70s.
Afraid I wasn't into video games then.. don't know about those.
NB> I thought TURBO was excellent. Tac-Scan, while ugly, was fun. If
NB> SEGA
NB> was so hell bent on destroying Atari why did they produce Congo
NB> Bongo,
NB> Tac-Scan, Thunderground, and many other arcade/original titles over
NB> to
NB> the 2600?
The name of the game is money here. I will admit that this message has
some inconsistencies.. I am not ready to take it fully as truth.. but it
does come under some suspicion as being the truth.
NB> You call 2 years of mass popularity well proven? While coin ops
NB> had been
NB> around since '71, and home pong systems were a bit younger, the home
NB> and
NB> ardcade video game industry reached 2 years of peak activity '81-'82.
NB> 2
NB> years is hardly enough to "prove" a new industry.
Sure. Maybe it's a little too early to call it a "new industry" to say..
but Atari was good at it. They were making a decent amount of money..
wouldn't you say? And the other companies couldn't topple them.. and since
this went on for two years proves that the "quick money phase" was well
past. Heck, look how long it's gone on now? There is that possibility that
if Atari hadn't died we would all be playing Atari Video Games right next
to our Atari STs or home computers which might be better overall if Atari
had stayed king.
Granted this is just an opinion though...
NB> It still doesn't prove why this fictional alliance would give
NB> Coleco the
NB> rights to produce and distribute Atari ports of some of their most
NB> popular
NB> arcade titles. Turbo, Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, etc. Heck, Donkey Kong
NB> sold
NB> millions of units... just made Atari more popular..didn't damage
NB> Atari..
NB> (I think the figure was like 10 million units sold...)
Well, if you wanted to get really technical and downright paranoid, you
could say that the companies were trying to cover their tracks. But the
fact of the matter is.. they want money.. nothing more nothing less. Just
more money (and no, I am not going to go into that tired and overused In
Living Colour quote!).
NB> Those intellivision pads were terribly innacurate. Anyway, nobody
NB> makes
NB> sticks anymore? Nintendo makes the Advantage, SEGA makes the
NB> Powerstick..they
NB> even made a joystick for the Sega Master System.. SNK ONLY makes
NB> sticks for
NB> their systems..and NEC has the TurboSTick. 3rd parties also make
NB> sticks
NB> like the Power Clutch and the Stealth controllers..
"Noone," admittedly is too strong a word.. but I know that they do make
those models. I was referring to, more or less, of the fact that they
introduce the users to the pads first.. then the others. There aren't that
many people who like the giant phallic WICO power stick from hell joysticks
anymore. It's because they aren't the mainstream now.. pads are.
NB> They did not achieve a common goal. Atari was still alive..the 2600
NB> was
NB> still in production. Also, Coleco was still making the ColecoVison
NB> in
NB> 1985..perhaps the earliest date that the NES was released.. Why
NB> didn't
NB> this big Nintendo/SEGA alliance help out Coleco? Later on, Telgames
NB> U.S.A.
NB> bought the rights to Coleco's technology and redid the system as the
NB> Personal Arcade. Same hardware, just different look and controllers.
NB> Why
NB> didn't they help out Telegames? Also the NES hadn't caught on yet,
NB> so
NB> they didn't reach the goal of conquering the home market yet. The
NB> revival
NB> of the home market didn't reall get going until '87-'88. The SMS
NB> came out
NB> in late '86 I belive, before the NES and the new home market really
NB> got
NB> going.
They did achieve their goal. Maybe their ultimate goal was to get rid of
Atari.. but then again maybe they stopped because Atari was so "down" that
they really couldn't recooperate... or so they thought. Look where Atari is
now compared to those years. Don't you think they have been put down.
NB> Yes, but the states agreed to it because THEY got money also..
It's a damn shame all around.
NB> Do you think that Nintendo would advertise that a major creative
NB> force
NB> behind a lot of their projects had left the staff? I don't think so.
NB> That
NB> would create some trouble with bad press and maybe angry investors..
Maybe they killed him...
Remember.. this is just a story. It's probably wrong. What are all those
science fiction Cyberpunk novels about? Big Japanese corporation weeding
their way into American through not so publicly viewable means and
eventually being running us. It's paranoia.. most of it. We will probably
never know.
FNORD!
Hey.. would you mind sending me some of your newsletters? YOu should
still have my address.
Daniel Carleton
There was a reference to exporting Japanese culture via games to
counter U.S. pop culture. Then why is thier favorite hero an Italian-
American from Brooklyn. The Zelda series is not any more Japanese culter than
Mario. The Teenage Mutant NINJA Turtles are an american phenomenon. The
only recurring Japanese culture icons in most games are ninja, who were always
on the fringes of japanese culture and no longer exist.
Some games do have cultural influence; Nobunaga's Ambitions is all
Japanese history. The Final Fantasy games are a wierd mixture of european
legend, Sci-Fi, and Japanese weapons-armour. Ninjas in these games fill the
role of D&D thief class, and Final Fantasy Legend II has a Japanese villiage.
Of course there are the stereotypical mistranslations in Master of Monsters:
Gorem=Golem, Marmaid=Mermaid, Loc=Roc, etc.. but I somehow suspect that these
were not intentional. Despite these games, most games seem to follow the culture of
the intended customers rather than trying to impose Japanese culture on the
United States.
Paul Trauth
wrote:
> 'Scuse me but... isn't Atari a JAPANESE company?
> Look at the name, even!!!
C> Well, I don't know if the company is Japanese, but the name sure is.
[...]
C> at least, the Japanese word "atari" is translated as (are you ready
C> for this?)
C> - Success. Matta ne.
Sit at my feet, young one, and listen to a story from the time when giants
roamed the earth, yea and verily.
[cough] [hack]
In the Beginning there was Nolan. And Nolan looked upon the Void and saw
that there was a place for video-game companies in the Void. And Nolan
said, "Let there be Syzygy!" And the Void replied unto Nolan, "Somebody
else is already using that name." And Nolan spake unto the void once more.
"Then let there be... um... Atari!" And it was so.
Yes. The original name Nolan Bushnell wanted for his company was Syzygy,
which is a certain type of planetary alignment. This name was already in
use, so he fell back to "Atari", taking a term from the ancient Japanese
board-game go. "Atari" is a term roughly equivilant to "check" in chess; it
can roughly be translated, in proper context, as something like "You are
about to be engulfed."
And no, Atari is NOT by any means Japanese. The company was born in
America, in the Golden Age when all the cool games were from America.
-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
- be zorch, daddi-o --------------- paul (raccoon) trauth ----------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet -> paul_...@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US \\\///\\\///\\\
Usenet -> rex!agwbbs!paul_trauth \\\///\\\///\\\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"eagles may fly, but a weasel will never get sucked into a jet engine"
Paul Trauth
wrote:
C> There was a reference to exporting Japanese culture via games to
C> counter U.S. pop culture. Then why is thier favorite hero an Italian-
C> American from Brooklyn. The Zelda series is not any more Japanese
You wouldn't know Mario's national origin to look at him any more! Sure, he
USED to be an Italian guy of varying employment. (carpenter... plumber...
cement factory worker... gas station attendant...) He LOOKED italian in the
cabinet art, even.
Nowadays the only thing he's got distinguishing him from any other cute
Japanese character is his moustache. How many of the kids playing SMW know
that he's Italian?
Sergey Shimkevich
Carleton) writes:
>Despite these games, most games seem to follow the culture of
>the intended customers rather than trying to impose Japanese culture on the
>United States.
Exactly. Just look at the projected titles for the Genesis CD-ROM: Star Trek:
The Next Generation, Cool World, Batman, etc.
And all those anime titles won't make it here. AARRGH!!!! I am seriously
thinking of buying a Wonder Mega.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Ryan: What is it to you, demon? //// Sergei Shimkevich //
// Lune: It is Sir, Demon to you, worm! //// shim...@buchmf.bu.edu //
// -Phantasy Star III //// //
Nathan W. Stehle
I think that if you look at the games, they are very Japanese. Some games have
been changed for American tastes. A TG-16 (JJ & Jeff is the name, I think)
game was changed a bit more so. I think a great deal of the games are Japanese
perceptions of American culture that comes back in the games we see.
Nathan
nst...@acc.stolaf.edu
Casey Barton
>Atari recently tried to sue Nintendo, saying that Nintendo had
>somehow created a monopoly and through "unfair competition"
>had taken most of the video game market..
>
>down on this one...
>
>Maybe now they'll try coming out with a REAL product this time..?
In the midst of this Atari vs. Nintendo thread, something seems to have
been forgotten. This is rec.games.video.*arcade*. I'm sure that any of the
Atari reps that frequent this base will attest to the fact that the arcade
division of Atari is quite completely separate from the division responsible
for the ST computer. Apart from those horrible "Play Choice 10" machines, I
think Atari Games (the arcade division) has relatively little to fear from the
NES.
How about it, Atari guys...can we get a breakdown of the current corporate
breakdown of Atari/Namco/computers/arcade games/whatever?
--
Casey Barton (Mr.) ceba...@descartes.waterloo.edu (519)725-6861
Kent Sandvik
(Jerry) KUCH) writes:
>
> In article <25...@goofy.Apple.COM> ks...@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>> >Speak about Atari and Nazi holocaust camps. Someone might present a nice
> >story about the current CEO of Atari...
>
> What? That Jack Tramiel was in Auschwitz and worked at one point as slave
> labor on the construction of the autobahn in Germany? What nice story
> do you want linking him to Nazi camps?
>
> Let's keep the conspiracies separate...I can hear it now..."Jack Tramiel,
> working for the International Jewish Banking Media Home Computer Major
> League Baseball Conspiracy infiltrated the business community by becoming
> a slave laborer...the use of DIN plugs on most of Atari's home computer
> I/O ports is clear evidence of the Nazi influence on...blah blah blah..."
Yes, this was the tragedy I tried to hint at. Then again all these
b-cpu people would present such naive and silly arguments as described
in the statement above.
The moral is that we have many people that 'actually' encountered the
Nazi evil, and most of those who believe this is a myth either were
not born during WW2, or then they live somewhere in a cosy suburb
of United States, believing anything that others tell them.
--
Cheers, Kent
Ralph Barbagallo
>In a message dated Wed 20 May 92 13:43, Carl...@tecsun1.etl.army.mil (dani
>wrote:
> C> There was a reference to exporting Japanese culture via games to
> C> counter U.S. pop culture. Then why is thier favorite hero an Italian-
> C> American from Brooklyn. The Zelda series is not any more Japanese
>You wouldn't know Mario's national origin to look at him any more! Sure, he
>USED to be an Italian guy of varying employment. (carpenter... plumber...
>cement factory worker... gas station attendant...) He LOOKED italian in the
>cabinet art, even.
>Nowadays the only thing he's got distinguishing him from any other cute
>Japanese character is his moustache. How many of the kids playing SMW know
>that he's Italian?
>
>
>
Well, is Mario a Japanese name? No..plus, in the cartoons they always
have Mario eating pasta etc. to play up on his Italian traits. (A cheap
stereotype of Italians..but hey, I'm not offended..it's just a damn game)
Ralph Barbagallo
Yeah, Atari sent me a press release once and it had backgrounds on most of
the major staff at Atari and one of them was on how Jack Tramiel survived
the holucaust.. Could be wrong, haven't read the release in awhile, but
I think that's what it said..and then he went on to found Commodore in
Canada where he made typewriters etc.. (eventually graduated to computers..)
Jon Clarke
Well here is the beST conspiracy I have read for a while! What does this
have to do with this news group ? Please go post in alt.video.games.wanted
and NOT waste the bandwith here.
"Geeze Fred, these guys who want ROMS!" "ROMS,Brian Ratshit Old Mums
Society! What are they posting in her for?"
----
~jonc (~Jon Clarke)
A user in good standing at the Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland NZL
Phone: (011 +649) 358-5543 V21|V22|V22bis|V23 ||ANSI X12 and EDIFAC ||
Jon Clarke
> In article <1992May20....@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> cebarton@napier
> > Bob_BobR...@cup.portal.com writes:
> >>Atari recently tried to sue Nintendo, saying that Nintendo had
> >>somehow created a monopoly and through "unfair competition"
> >>had taken most of the video game market..
> >>
> >>I love my Atari computer, but I'm GLAD the courts slapped Atari
> >>down on this one...
> >>
> >>Maybe now they'll try coming out with a REAL product this time..?
> >
> > In the midst of this Atari vs. Nintendo thread, something seems to have
> >been forgotten. This is rec.games.video.*arcade*. I'm sure that any of the
> >Atari reps that frequent this base will attest to the fact that the arcade
> >division of Atari is quite completely separate from the division responsible
> >for the ST computer. Apart from those horrible "Play Choice 10" machines, I
> >think Atari Games (the arcade division) has relatively little to fear from t
> >NES.
>
> Don't forget that, regardless of its origin, this thread is being cross-poste
> to alt.conspiracy, where it's quickly going to get turned into another plot o
> "The International Jewish Banking Media Zionist Major League Baseball Conspir
> acy to Monopolize the Media and the Videogram Cartridge Trade" or some such
> similar crap...
>
> > Casey Barton (Mr.) ceba...@descartes.waterloo.edu (519)725-6861
Well I guess it is mt turn to comment on this. Casey what a GREAT post
I agree all the way to the bank. I am shocked that someone would post
this information from STR and I think Peter made his comments known to
the group, which I agree with all the WAY!!!!!!
So what happens to this subject now? How about we let it die as even a
hardened Atari User as myself can see no CONSPIRACY in this at all!
A lot of HUNOUR but not conspiracy (-grin-).
-Someone stole my sig... Oh alt.conspiracy /f:\bin\system\NOSIG is the
reason why. Or did I reinstate /SIG
Jon Clarke HSBC NZM EBD
GEnie: J.CLARKE6 FIDONET: 3/772:105 TheNets: jo...@status.gen.nz
Voice Mail (011+64)25-962-638 Phone (011+64)9-358-5589 Fax (011+64)9-309-6681
Member: NZEDIA Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell, Auckland, New Zealand
Gerald D. Kuch
That's about it, although I think that he founded the company in New York,
not in Canada...and they started in typewriter repair and office supplies
before having a brief entrance into the calculator market (cut short when TI
put out a calculator that sold for $1 more than the manufacturing cost of the
Commodore Calculator)...
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> / / \
> / Ralph A. Barbagallo III / Co-Editor of \
>/ ----- / M I N D S T O R M \
>\ nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us \ /
> \ \ THE Newsletter for high-end gamers! /
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> * Game Informer, F.A.N., The Neucleus, Mind Storm, MAVGUG, check 'em!*
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Jerry Kuch (t-ge...@microsoft.com) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
"I was wrong to play God. Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet." - Montgomery Burns
Fogbound Child
>set...@cae.wisc.edu (Steven Sether) writes:
>> Does anyone have ROM 5 for Defender that that would like to sell, or can
>> read it, and send me a copy of the Rom image? Is this one of the ROMS
>> in the FTP Rom image site?
>> Thanks
>Well here is the beST conspiracy I have read for a while! What does this
>have to do with this news group ? Please go post in alt.video.games.wanted
>and NOT waste the bandwith here.
>
Wrong Defender, Pal. We're talkin' the code that controls the DEW line.
Mr Sether is obviously an agent for some nation that wishes to initiate
an over-the-pole nuclear attack on Canada, and wants to see if there's a
clever way of keeping us Americans in the dark about it. If he can
reverse-engineer the defense system ROM, he'll be able to find the
holes.
Try logging into armageddon.big_bang.black_out.org.
It's in the pub/spies/defense_secrets/vulnerabilities directory.
This message will self destruct in three minutes.
>----
>~jonc (~Jon Clarke)
>A user in good standing at the Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland NZL
>Phone: (011 +649) 358-5543 V21|V22|V22bis|V23 ||ANSI X12 and EDIFAC ||
--
Samuel Goldstein accepts sole responsibility for the above article.
(C) 1992 Inimitable Imageware |--------------------\
Practice Safe-Signature! Prevent dangerous Signature Virii! )=
|--------------------/
Ralph Barbagallo
>Jerry Kuch (t-ge...@microsoft.com) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
> "I was wrong to play God. Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
> Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet." - Montgomery Burns
>
Also, wasn't Tramiel a cab driver before all that? I think that was in
the press release as well...
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
> have to do with this news group ? Please go post in alt.video.games.wanted
> and NOT waste the bandwith here.
>
> "Geeze Fred, these guys who want ROMS!" "ROMS,Brian Ratshit Old Mums
> Society! What are they posting in her for?"
Well, considering that this is rec.arts.video.ARCADE and that Defender is an
ARCADE game, I thought it was pretty appropriate.
John Newman
camosun.bc.ca writes:
Me too. As I have a Defender at home, one day I might also need
a ROM 5. I'll ask here first.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\ John Newman Internet:J.Ne...@QMCC.curtin.edu.au /
/ Computing Centre, \
\ Curtin University, "There is less to this than meets the eye." /
/ Perth, Western Australia - Tallulah Bankhead \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Jake Page
>In article 1992May26 comptec89007@camins.
>camosun.bc.ca writes:
>
>>> Well here is the beST conspiracy I have read for a while! What does this
>>> have to do with this news group ? Please go post in alt.video.games.wanted
>>> and NOT waste the bandwith here.
>>>
>>> "Geeze Fred, these guys who want ROMS!" "ROMS,Brian Ratshit Old Mums
>>> Society! What are they posting in her for?"
>
>>Well, considering that this is rec.arts.video.ARCADE and that Defender is an
>>ARCADE game, I thought it was pretty appropriate.
>
>
>Me too. As I have a Defender at home, one day I might also need
>a ROM 5. I'll ask here first.
>
I think the problem was that the original article was cross-posted to
alt.conspiracy for some reason... probably someone using one of those
stupid "Atari conspiracy" articles to send a new message, and forgetting
to take alt.conspiracy off the newsgroup list.
Though I'm not sure, Defender may actually be secretly involved in some
international plot to destroy the world as we know it...
Jake Page
sn...@leland.stanford.edu
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
> international plot to destroy the world as we know it...
Hell, why not? If a Space Invaders machine can gain sentience manufacture real
invaders to take over the Earth, why not Defender as well? Matta ne.
Mike Marfell
Steve,
Let's take a look here.....
Defender Roms, could this apply to Rec.Games.Video?
SSSSSSSSSSure.
Could this apply to Rec.Games.Video.Games????
YOU BET!!!!!
How about Alt.Conspiracy??????????????
Wellllllllll, I think ya took'a wrong turn
at Alburquerque! Steer left to Misc.Wanted or
hang'a U turn at Alt.Sources!!!
--
Mike Marfell * BaySat * | "No matter where you go, | Space for rent.
Intergraph-Home of the clipper!| there you are" | CHEAP!!
m...@clipper.clipper.ingr.com | -Buckaru Bonzi | Please, no Sun ads