Tournament Winning Deck Archive
The Lasombra
If you want to see how many times a deck consisting primarily of Ventrue
Antitribu has won, simply go to this page:
http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/clan-twd.htm
and then scroll down to the Ventrue Antitribu.
The original chronological archive is still in the same place, and will
continue to be updated.
http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
--
Posted from rr-163-54-80.atl.mediaone.net [24.163.54.80]
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Pat Ricochet
> I have added another interface for the Tournament Winning Deck Archive.
>
> If you want to see how many times a deck consisting primarily of Ventrue
> Antitribu has won, simply go to this page:
>
> http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/clan-twd.htm
>
> and then scroll down to the Ventrue Antitribu.
"Ventrue Antitribu
It's all about the flow - by Stuart Pieloch - November 1999"
That's our Stu! =)
However, the list seems to leave some challenges, then:
"...
Giovanni
None with 5+ Giovanni yet
...
Ravnos
None with 5+ Ravnos yet
...
Tremere Antitribu
None with 5+ Tremere Antitribu yet
..."
Now, that wouldn't have anything to do with Jeff playing a !Tremere deck
just this last tournament, would it? Hmm...?
(No comment on the Giovanni; I've only played them twice in tournaments,
both pre-FN. Don't blame me. =)
--
Pat Ricochet
Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta
Andrew S. Davidson
>I have added another interface for the Tournament Winning Deck Archive.
>
>If you want to see how many times a deck consisting primarily of Ventrue
>Antitribu has won, simply go to this page:
>
>http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/clan-twd.htm
Good work. A summary table would be useful too as that's what people
really want to know. The current standings follow. It's good to see
that the Malkavians are now closing the gap on the Ventrue/Weenie
leaders thanks to the demented frenzy of madmen like Ben Peal.
20 Other (aka Weenie)
19 Ventrue
16 Malkavian
8 Brujah
8 Lasombra
8 Nosferatu
8 Toreador
5 Toreador Antitribu
5 Tzimisce
3 Gangrel
3 Malkavian Antitribu
3 Pander
3 Tremere
2 Assamite
2 Brujah Antitribu
2 Follower of Set
2 Gangrel Antitribu
2 Nosferatu Antitribu
1 Ventrue Antitribu
0 Caitiff
0 Giovanni
0 Ravnos
0 Tremere Antitribu
Andrew
X_Zealot
"Andrew S. Davidson" <a...@csi.com> wrote in message
news:817F13EC40873533.D87E3FA8...@lp.airnews.net...
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2001 04:13:25 +0000 (UTC), The Lasombra wrote:
>
> >I have added another interface for the Tournament Winning Deck Archive.
> >
> >If you want to see how many times a deck consisting primarily of Ventrue
> >Antitribu has won, simply go to this page:
> >
> >http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/clan-twd.htm
>
> Good work. A summary table would be useful too as that's what people
> really want to know. The current standings follow. It's good to see
> that the Malkavians are now closing the gap on the Ventrue/Weenie
> leaders thanks to the demented frenzy of madmen like Ben Peal.
>
> 20 Other (aka Weenie)
You are mistaken if you believe all these are weenies. Check out Oblige
Noblisse. Big Fatty Bitcholes all around. They call this group other
because it is other than centrally focused on a clan.
> 19 Ventrue
> 16 Malkavian
> 8 Brujah
> 8 Lasombra
> 8 Nosferatu
> 8 Toreador
> 5 Toreador Antitribu
> 5 Tzimisce
> 3 Gangrel
> 3 Malkavian Antitribu
> 3 Pander
All these contain LoP, which now is non-stackable.
> 3 Tremere
> 2 Assamite
> 2 Brujah Antitribu
> 2 Follower of Set
> 2 Gangrel Antitribu
> 2 Nosferatu Antitribu
> 1 Ventrue Antitribu
> 0 Caitiff
No wins here, what's up with that.
Andrew S. Davidson
>> 20 Other (aka Weenie)
>
>You are mistaken if you believe all these are weenies.
I know but they are the bulk of this category. The last time I did
this, I separated the weenies from the oddball miscellany and the
table was:
17 Caitiff/Pander/Weenie
14 Ventrue
10 Brujah
9 Toreador
9 Malkavian
8 Other
7 Lasombra
4 Gangrel
4 Nosferatu
4 Tzimisce
2 Tremere
2 Followers of Set
1 Assamite
0 Giovanni
0 Ravnos
--
91
The Malkavians have come surging up the chart since then.
Andrew
Pat Ricochet
>>
>> If you want to see how many times a deck consisting primarily of Ventrue
>> Antitribu has won, simply go to this page:
>>
>> http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/clan-twd.htm
>
> Good work. A summary table would be useful too as that's what people
> really want to know. The current standings follow. It's good to see
> that the Malkavians are now closing the gap on the Ventrue/Weenie
> leaders thanks to the demented frenzy of madmen like Ben Peal.
>
> 20 Other (aka Weenie)
> 3 Pander
and
> 0 Caitiff
not to mention the assumption that "Other" means weenie. I'm sure you
did it to save yourself some work, but I'll take that bet, and do your work
for you:
These are the Other decks:
* Honor the Elders - by Will Kristoff - September 2001
* Legal Manipulation - by Christian Chenard - August 2001
Not a weenie dominate deck - by Tony Smith - July 2001
Do not feed the animals - by Andrew Weston - May 2001
* Daeva, The Hidden Masters - by Christoph Hardebusch - March 2001
WeePee Bleed 101 - by Darby Keeney - February 2001
Wonderwall - by Ben Peal - January 2001
Weenie Animalism - by Greg Faulkner - December 2000
Weenie Auspex - by Ethan Burrow - August 2000
-- Yet Another Damn Presence Bleed Deck - by Keith Thompson - July 2000
-- Princely Weenie Dominate - by Ethan Burrow - May 2000
Weenie Presence - by Ethan Burrow - May 2000
-- World Domination - by Michael Daniel - February 2000
* DragonCon - by Ben Peal - July 1999
-- Weenie Presence - by Joao Marques - December 1998
* Lazverinus - by Rob Treasure - December 1998
* Oblige Noblisse - by Norman S. Brown Jr. - December 1998
* Dominate Protean - by L. Scott Johnson - November 1998
* Lazverinus All Skills All Stars deck - by Rob Treasure - September 1998
-- Weenie presence bleed - by Steve Wampler - March 1998
* indicates a non-weenie deck. Most of the * decks are actually "fatty"
decks.
-- indicates a deck that relied upon Misdirection, which almost assuredly
wouldn't win tournaments since the solution of the Misdirection equation
(X=1).
That makes, of the 20 "other" decks, 7 weenie decks, 5 Misdirection decks,
and 8 non-weenie decks.
All 3 Pander decks relied upon stacking Legacy of Pander, something allowed
only by a misprint of the original card.
So, that changes the standings to:
19 Ventrue
16 Malkavian
15 Weenie (8 of which won relying upon now "fixed" cards)
8 Brujah
8 Lasombra
8 Nosferatu
8 Toreador
and then 5 or less wins from there on.
(Now, as to how many of the Brujah, Nosferatu, and Toreador decks relied
upon Princes, I'll leave for the next person in the thread.)
However, that puts the Ventrue clearly out in front. Ben Peal would
argue that those are all old victories, and that the metagame has adjusted
to beat them, but, looking at them, they seem to win often and steadily
enough, on both sides of the Atlantic:
Ventrue Suck! - by Brad Kellogg - September 2001
Ventrue - by David Tatu - September 2001
Favors Remembered - by Bernie Bresnahan - July 2001
The Ventrue deck with no name - by Mike Nilson - May 2001
Ventrue - by Rubén Vidaña - February 2001
Ventrue Hostilities - by Ginés Quiñonero Santiago - September 2000
Hostile Parity Sleaze - by Rob Treasure - July 2000
Higher Power - by Pierre-Hugues - February 2000
Play the Table - by Mike Perlman - February 2000
Charlotte - by L. Scott Johnson - January 2000
Hostile Parity Sleaze - by Rob Treasure - January 2000
Weenie Trap Unfliching Filth - by Rob Treasure - January 2000
Ventrue Untouchables - by Rob Treasure - November 1999
OK, What the Hell, a Ventrue Vote Deck - by Eric Nawrotzki - October 1999
Ventrue - by Conor Key - March 1999
Victorious Ventrue - by R. Brian Smith - February 1999
Dragoncon - by Jared Strait - September 1998
Ventrue - by Steve Wright - May 1998
Origins 97 - by Alex Harmon - July 1997
(As for the Malkavians, I'll again leave it to someone else down the
thread to confirm that it's 70% stealth bleed, and 25% stealth vote.)
mgreen02
> Good work. A summary table would be useful too as that's what people
> really want to know. The current standings follow. It's good to see
> that the Malkavians are now closing the gap on the Ventrue/Weenie
> leaders thanks to the demented frenzy of madmen like Ben Peal.
>
> 20 Other (aka Weenie)
Only 14 of the 20 decks you cite as weenie contain five or more
vampires of capacity 4 or less. It's unfair to lump them all as weenie
decks, as a cursory glance will show this statement to be false. Of
those 14, a number (noteably Rob's Lazverinus deck that appears twice
in that section in two incarnations) contain a split proportion of
vampires. Classifying one sub-set by size rather than clan is an
unfair (and in this case exclusionist) comparison.
Of the 16 Malkavaian decks, 5 can be classified as weenie.
Whilst your comparison is interesting, other should be treated as
'other' in this case.
mattgreen
Ben Peal
> However, that puts the Ventrue clearly out in front. Ben Peal would
> argue that those are all old victories, and that the metagame has adjusted
> to beat them, but, looking at them, they seem to win often and steadily
They certainly don't win steadily in the US. I missed Mike Perlman's
win with them in February of 2000, but it wasn't until 15 months later
that another "Ventrue" deck won in the US. 15 months.
25% of the "Ventrue" decks were the result of Rob Treasure kicking the
crap out of Portsmouth again, and those represent 4 of 9 that have won
in Europe.
Also, take a look at the decks themselves. 7 of the 20 contain only 5
or 6 Ventrue. 6 of the 11 that won in the US (and 4 of 6 since October
of 1999) contain only 5 or 6 Ventrue. That leaves only 1 of 9 in
Europe containing only 5 or 6 Ventrue (5, to be exact). In some cases
(B.Kellogg, LSJ, one of R.Treasure's), it's clear that the deck isn't
a deck based on Ventrue, but rather a discipline-based deck.
Was Jared Strait's deck a Ventrue deck or a Settite deck? It's listed
in both categories. You can make a case for it being in the Miscellaneous
category as a "toolbox" deck.
That brings up another question...is my Wonderwall deck a Malkavian deck
or a weenie deck? One version of it (with 4 Malkavians) is in the
Miscellaneous category, while another version of it (with 5 Malkavians)
is in the Malkavian category. Both have the same number of Malkavian-
specific cards (2: hunting ground + Muddles). Having built the decks,
I'm of the opinion that both belong in the Miscellaneous category, since
they're Obf/Aus weenie decks. Just because a deck has a plurality of
vampires of a given clan doesn't mean that the deck is based on that
clan.
At any rate, while I think Jeff's system of categorization is over-
simplified, he's clearly created a useful addition to his site. At the
very least, it's getting us to think about the decks themselves. :)
How would the stats look if it took 6 vampires of a clan for the deck
to be classified as being of that clan?
- Ben Peal, Prince of Boston
fu...@mindstorm.com
Wes
"Pat Ricochet" <sp...@socrates.gatech.edu> wrote
> Do not feed the animals - by Andrew Weston - May 2001
Ugg. Any way you can change this to just Wes? Nobody knows me by this name.
Good work by the way! I enjoy seeing these kinds of statistics. I wonder if
there are any other stats we can gather in an attempt to determine major
changes in the metagame?
Bleed/Vote/Combat/Other might be an interesting one.
Average vampire size would also be useful.
Cheers,
WES
BernieTime
Shouldn't a deck be comprised of 50% vampires of a given
clan (in deck) to be classified as a clan deck??
Or does that create a listing problem reducing the overall
number of decks listed as clan decks significantly??
Thanks Jeff & keep up the good work.
Bernie
The Lasombra
news:20011019153657...@mb-bj.aol.com...
> Think I have to agree with Ben somewhat.
> Shouldn't a deck be comprised of 50% vampires of a given
> clan (in deck) to be classified as a clan deck??
Only if you want 90% of the decks to show up in the other category.
Five was chosen because it is significantly close to what the clan as
a whole can do. If you can find 5 Ventrue in a deck, you can
probably adapt the deck as a whole to complete Ventrue without
too much problem.
> Or does that create a listing problem reducing the overall
> number of decks listed as clan decks significantly??
Yes it does.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
--
Posted from rr-163-54-196.atl.mediaone.net [24.163.54.196]