SPOILER - LotN Giovanni starter contents
Appolonius
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Lords of the Night Giovanni Preconstructed Deck
Crypt (12)
2 x Nunzio Giovanni
3 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
nec pot
2 x Primo Giovanni
4 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
dom nec pot
2 x Margaret Milliner
5 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
dom for nec pot pre
Margaret gets +1 bleed if Francis Milliner is ready. Cards that require
Fortitude cost her an additional blood.
2 x Francis Milliner
6 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
pre vic NEC POT
Francis gets +1 strength in combat with a Toreador or Toreador antitribu.
2 x Guillaume Giovanni
9 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
obt CEL DOM NEC POT
While Guillaume is ready, you get +1 hand size for each location you
control. Guillaume gets +1 stealth on recruit and employ actions.
2 x Lady Constancia
10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
AUS DOM FOR NEC POT
Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a
discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its
replacement from the other cards in your ash heap.
Library (77)
2 Taste of Vitae
1 Inspire Greatness
2 Concealed Weapon
2 Proxy Kissed
1 Siphon
3 Bang Nakh - Tiger's Claws
4 Shambling Hordes
2 Divine Sign
2 Immortal Grapple (new art)
4 Murmur of the False Will (*)
2 Vessel
4 Spectral Divination (new art)
3 Call of the Hungry Dead
2 The Path of Bone
4 Harass
3 Conditioning (new art)
1 Possession (new art)
2 Camera Phone (as per spoiler)
1 The Sargon Fragment
2 Slam (*)
3 Bundi (*)
2 Torn Signpost
1 Compel the Spirit (new art)
2 Dominate Kine
2 Jack of Both Sides
1 KRCG News Radio
1 Necromancy (new art)
3 Reckless Agitation
2 Eluding the Arms of Morpheus (as per spoiler)
1 Sudario Refraction
3 Brute Force (as per spoiler)
1 Chill of Oblivion
2 Whispers from the Dead
1 Forger's Hammer
1 Morgue Hunting Ground (new art)
1 Giant's Blood
1 Ex Nihilo
1 Warrant (*)
1 Graverobbing
Murmur of the False Will
(action mod) (dom) +1 bleed. You cannot play another action modifier to
increase this bleed.
(reaction) (DOM) Only usable when a younger vampire is bleeding you,
after blocks are declined. Tap this reacting vampire. Choose another
Methuselah other than the acting vampire's controller. That acting
vampire is now bleeding that Methuselah.
Slam
Combat, potence, 1 blood
(pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage
(POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to
close range.
Bundi
Equipment, 2 pool
Melee weapon.
Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both
a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage
from each melee weapon strike made against him or her.
Warrant
Political Action, worth 1 vote.
Choose a younger ready vampire. If this referendum succeeds, put this
card on that vampire. Any ready vampire may enter combat with this
vampire as a (D) action that costs 1 blood.
Some good stuff there obviously, but the lack of Spiritual Intervention
is a bit of a surprise. A staple card for some - dare I say the more
successful - Giovanni deck archetypes now may well be out of print
(short of forking over US$20 per for a 10th Ed pack) for literally years.
Appolonius.
Blooded Sand
> 2 Immortal Grapple (new art)
> 3 Bundi (*)
> 2 Torn Signpost
Yay! more IG! more TS! more Tastes! yay yay yay!
Jozxyqk
> Bundi
> Equipment, 2 pool
> Melee weapon.
> Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both
> a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage
> from each melee weapon strike made against him or her.
LSJ, if this is truly the wording, then can you officially clarify whether
this weapon is usable under Immortal Grapple?
I assume "yes" because the Stutter Step threads have indicated that S-S's
limitation is by its own card text.
But it would be nice to have a "google link" to point someone to if they begin
to argue, especially during release events.
Better yet, has Immortal Grapple's text been updated to further clarify the
situation?
Thanks.
AcheronNi...@gmail.com
Orpheus
At last !!
>> Crypt (12)
>>
>> 2 x Nunzio Giovanni
>> 3 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
>> nec pot
>>
>> 2 x Primo Giovanni
>> 4 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
>> dom nec pot
Ok, nothing new here.
>> 2 x Margaret Milliner
>> 5 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
>> dom for nec pot pre
>> Margaret gets +1 bleed if Francis Milliner is ready. Cards that require
>> Fortitude cost her an additional blood.
All inferiors, two out-of-clan... Ok. Given the extra cost, not sure if For
is a good option for her except in urgency...
"Daddy" special could be nice, but :
>> 2 x Francis Milliner
>> 6 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
>> pre vic NEC POT
>> Francis gets +1 strength in combat with a Toreador or Toreador antitribu.
WTF ? This guy doesn't even have inf Dom !! So he's definitively not gonna
be worth given baby her +1 candy.
If at least he had one vote he could be useful without Dom... Now, NEC /
POT... Dunno, will have to see the new necrocards, but as of now... no.
>> 2 x Guillaume Giovanni
>> 9 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
>> obt CEL DOM NEC POT
>> While Guillaume is ready, you get +1 hand size for each location you
>> control. Guillaume gets +1 stealth on recruit and employ actions.
Nice. Plenty of options. A little too big for most decks though.
>> 2 x Lady Constancia
>> 10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
>> AUS DOM FOR NEC POT
>> Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a
>> discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its
>> replacement from the other cards in your ash heap.
Another fattie. Two votes, I don't like the AUS that much but FOR allows for
Freak Drives, along with some other titled dominaters... Still, 10 is a lot,
and it's not like Regina saw much light except for her recruit special.
>> Library (77)
>>
>> 2 Taste of Vitae
>> 4 Shambling Hordes
>> 2 Immortal Grapple (new art)
>> 1 The Sargon Fragment
>> 3 Bundi (*)
>> 2 Torn Signpost
>
> Yay! more IG! more TS! more Tastes! yay yay yay!
Errr, sure, but... Where are the other cards ?!?
--
"All Hail the Lords of the Night !"
Orpheus
IC-O...@yandex.ru
Everyone get their path except FoS? ^(
Hope I'm missing something.
preac...@gmx.at
See, we FoS-lovers get the shaft, path-wise. We are not to complain,
cause "it's common as dirt and readily available" as it was put by
people in another thread. Those same people did not understand, that
to some players reprints in the new layout are highly appreciated...
But, well.
Blooded Sand
Dude, did you see the love the Snakes got??!?!?!?!?
Damn, talk about greedy.. :)
Understand yor point, but they now have the most solid imbued toasting
options, nasty voting, awesome specials, man the snakes are looking
better all the time. I swear they've corrupted the DT....
Janne Hägglund
> >> Lords of the Night Giovanni Preconstructed Deck
>
> At last !!
> >> 2 x Lady Constancia
> >> 10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
> >> AUS DOM FOR NEC POT
> >> Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a
> >> discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its
> >> replacement from the other cards in your ash heap.
>
> Another fattie. Two votes, I don't like the AUS that much but FOR allows for
> Freak Drives, along with some other titled dominaters... Still, 10 is a lot,
> and it's not like Regina saw much light except for her recruit special.
Did you happen to notice she has all the Harbinger in-clan disciplines at
superior? And her ash heap digging cannot be blocked or DI:d.
Her 10 capacity is a problem, yes. But I see potential for
Giovanni/Harbinger unholy alliance decks with her...
HG
--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey
AcheronNi...@gmail.com
wrote:
she is HoS afterall (in RPG :P)
IC-O...@yandex.ru
> Dude, did you see the love the Snakes got??!?!?!?!?
>
> Damn, talk about greedy.. :)
>
> Understand yor point, but they now have the most solid imbued toasting
> options, nasty voting, awesome specials, man the snakes are looking
> better all the time. I swear they've corrupted the DT....
Cause there is no reprints for Ancient Hearts or Final Nights. Even
Lasombra didn't mention it in his inventory.
And why do the other indie get the Path?
Blooded Sand
Dude, stop worrying, mail me, ill organise you a few, as long as you
in Europe aomewhere
Peter...@gmail.com
Because Quietus is (in most cases) overcosted, and the other Paths
were (for some weird reason) rares.
Orpheus
>>
>> At last !!
>
>> >> 2 x Lady Constancia
>> >> 10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
>> >> AUS DOM FOR NEC POT
>> >> Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a
>> >> discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its
>> >> replacement from the other cards in your ash heap.
>>
>> Another fattie. Two votes, I don't like the AUS that much but FOR allows
>> for
>> Freak Drives, along with some other titled dominaters... Still, 10 is a
>> lot,
>> and it's not like Regina saw much light except for her recruit special.
>
>
> Did you happen to notice she has all the Harbinger in-clan disciplines at
> superior? And her ash heap digging cannot be blocked or DI:d.
Her special is good.
> Her 10 capacity is a problem, yes.
That's just it. I could do with one less outside discipline and 8-Cap.
> But I see potential for
> Giovanni/Harbinger unholy alliance decks with her...
Certainly. Too bad She can't play with Matthias... :-( Who knows, if my
Planning card is adapted somehow...
Orpheus
>
> Because Quietus is (in most cases) overcosted, and the other Paths
> were (for some weird reason) rares.
Also, Chi costs your left hand, and Nec is expensive too (the Path is
especially important for Shamblers).
The best use I can see for the Path of Typhon is Typhonic Beast (logical,
ain't it ?) and I must confess I'd have like some more too just for that
purpose.
But who says these spoilers are perfectly accurate ?
Aramis
> Murmur of the False Will
> (action mod) (dom) +1 bleed. You cannot play another action modifier to
> increase this bleed.
> (reaction) (DOM) Only usable when a younger vampire is bleeding you,
> after blocks are declined. Tap this reacting vampire. Choose another
> Methuselah other than the acting vampire's controller. That acting
> vampire is now bleeding that Methuselah.
+1 bleed and bounce in the same card with no blood cost. Why do we
keep giving DOM good cards? Isn't it good enough that they have these
abilities on other cards, we now have to let them have flexibility by
putting both effects on one card?
> Slam
> Combat, potence, 1 blood
> (pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage
> (POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to
> close range.
Definately worth playing if you fear the gun defense, but not just
better than Pushing the Limits or Undead Strength either. A nice
compromise card.
> Bundi
> Equipment, 2 pool
> Melee weapon.
> Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both
> a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage
> from each melee weapon strike made against him or her.
I would think you can't use this under IG because it says it's a melee
strike as well (much like S-S says it's also a dodge). I could be
wrong though, I didn't look at the old rulings on S-S and IG.
> Warrant
> Political Action, worth 1 vote.
> Choose a younger ready vampire. If this referendum succeeds, put this
> card on that vampire. Any ready vampire may enter combat with this
> vampire as a (D) action that costs 1 blood.
Why did Giovanni get this and Assamites got Free States Rant? Grrr....
Orpheus
>> (action mod) (dom) +1 bleed. You cannot play another action modifier to
>> increase this bleed.
>> (reaction) (DOM) Only usable when a younger vampire is bleeding you,
>> after blocks are declined. Tap this reacting vampire. Choose another
>> Methuselah other than the acting vampire's controller. That acting
>> vampire is now bleeding that Methuselah.
>
> +1 bleed and bounce in the same card with no blood cost. Why do we
> keep giving DOM good cards? Isn't it good enough that they have these
> abilities on other cards, we now have to let them have flexibility by
> putting both effects on one card?
With reduced effects. I'll keep on playing Deflection + Conditionning in
most decks. But variety is good.
>> Slam
>> Combat, potence, 1 blood
>> (pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage
>> (POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to
>> close range.
>
> Definately worth playing if you fear the gun defense,
Or any ranged combat, as I did when I first played Ignazio (before
Earthshock, and Tremere or Ani gave me trouble...).
> but not just
> better than Pushing the Limits or Undead Strength either. A nice
> compromise card.
Yes.
>> Bundi
>> Equipment, 2 pool
>> Melee weapon.
>> Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both
>> a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage
>> from each melee weapon strike made against him or her.
>
> I would think you can't use this under IG because it says it's a melee
> strike as well (much like S-S says it's also a dodge). I could be
> wrong though, I didn't look at the old rulings on S-S and IG.
It has been ruled playable under IG.
>> Warrant
>> Political Action, worth 1 vote.
>> Choose a younger ready vampire. If this referendum succeeds, put this
>> card on that vampire. Any ready vampire may enter combat with this
>> vampire as a (D) action that costs 1 blood.
>
> Why did Giovanni get this and Assamites got Free States Rant? Grrr....
Err, I don't see any requirement here. Is it a Giovanni-only vote ? If so,
given the trouble they have passing votes...
Aramis
> >> Equipment, 2 pool
> >> Melee weapon.
> >> Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both
> >> a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage
> >> from each melee weapon strike made against him or her.
>
> > I would think you can't use this under IG because it says it's a melee
> > strike as well (much like S-S says it's also a dodge). I could be
> > wrong though, I didn't look at the old rulings on S-S and IG.
>
> It has been ruled playable under IG.
I couldn't find the thread. I blame lack of caffiene, link?
> >> Warrant
> >> Political Action, worth 1 vote.
> >> Choose a younger ready vampire. If this referendum succeeds, put this
> >> card on that vampire. Any ready vampire may enter combat with this
> >> vampire as a (D) action that costs 1 blood.
>
> > Why did Giovanni get this and Assamites got Free States Rant? Grrr....
>
> Err, I don't see any requirement here. Is it a Giovanni-only vote ? If so,
> given the trouble they have passing votes...
I just meant in the starters. I boggled why Assamites got FSR in
their starter when there was this gem of a new vote.
SPORE
>
> >> Bundi
> >> Equipment, 2 pool
> >> Melee weapon.
> >> Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both
> >> a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage
> >> from each melee weapon strike made against him or her.
>
> > I would think you can't use this under IG because it says it's a melee
> > strike as well (much like S-S says it's also a dodge). I could be
> > wrong though, I didn't look at the old rulings on S-S and IG.
>
> It has been ruled playable under IG.
>
"ruled playable," perhaps, but by wording, that is what makes sense.
IG relevant text is:
Strikes that are not hand strikes may not be used this round (by
either combatant).
since this is a hand strike, it is usable. conversely, though it is a
hand strike, stutter-step has its own text prohibition that keeps it
from being compatible with IG.
john spore mage
atomweaver
@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
> On 24 Sep., 14:18, IC-Odd...@yandex.ru wrote:
>> WTF???
>> Everyone get their path except FoS? ^(
>>
>> Hope I'm missing something.
>
> See, we FoS-lovers get the shaft, path-wise. We are not to complain,
> cause "it's common as dirt and readily available" as it was put by
> people in another thread.
Not "people"... me. *shrug* Its my opinion about our COLLECTABLE card
game, nothing more. BTW, I posted an email address, saying I was willing
to mail out some spare Path of Typhon to a guy in Australia for cost of
delivery (and I'd do the same for others). Guess how many people took me
up on that offer? Thats right, none.
> Those same people did not understand, that
> to some players reprints in the new layout are highly appreciated...
'Appreciated' wasn't the previous verbiage... appreciated != necesary...
and yet you remain correct, I don't agree with the need for all the old
cards in new layout. I'd rather have more, better New cards in the new
layout, instead.
DaveZ
AW
LSJ
Aramis
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you LSJ !
Peter D Bakija
Appolonius <appol...@jyhad.com> wrote:
> 2 Vessel
Has anyone actually, ya know, seen this card yet? Like, in their hand?
I'm completely unconvinced that it actually exists yet...
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html
"Find hungry samurai."
-The Old Man
Jadasc
> Has anyone actually, ya know, seen this card yet? Like, in their hand?
> I'm completely unconvinced that it actually exists yet...
You've met me in real life, right?
Whatever my word is worth to you, you have it. This card exists. I
have it.
Jason
Frederick Scott
news:pdb6-D24779.1...@news-server.stny.rr.com...
> In article <13ff7rg...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Appolonius <appol...@jyhad.com> wrote:
>> 2 Vessel
>
> Has anyone actually, ya know, seen this card yet? Like, in their hand?
> I'm completely unconvinced that it actually exists yet...
Yes, there is a card named that. Yes, I've held it in my hand. I don't
know what you think it is but it's a master that has the same function
as Blood Doll except 1) it must be used in the untap phase instead of the
master phase (a disadvantage, for the most part but occasionally an
advantage) and 2) it allows the person playing the card to identify and
remove a Blood Doll already on the table (clear advantageous). I recall
it's worded like Blood Doll in that it's usable by the minion's controller
but don't recall if it needs to be placed on a ready and/or controlled
vampire.
Fred
mummy
> Lords of the Night Giovanni Preconstructed Deck
presence, and none with superior presence.>
> Library (77)
> 1 Inspire Greatness
This puzzles me. I see it could be used in THEORY, but one would
think there'd be a better card to add (Empowering the Puppet King?).
A typo, perhaps?
Inspire Greatness
Card Text:
Only usable by a ready vampire other than the acting minion.
[pot][pre] The acting ally or younger vampire gets +1 strength during
this action.
[POT][PRE] The acting ally or younger vampire gets +2 strength during
this action.
Peter D Bakija
"Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
> Yes, there is a card named that. Yes, I've held it in my hand.
Ah, see, you are the first person to actually say this--up till this
point, there was still a hope that it was misinformation.
> I don't know what you think it is
It was spoiled over a week ago. There was a great deal of hope that it
was a made up card and not an actual one.
Peter D Bakija
Jadasc <jad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You've met me in real life, right?
I think so.
> Whatever my word is worth to you, you have it. This card exists. I
> have it.
Fair enough--up till this point, there was a lot of hypothesis that
Vessel didn't actually exist and was something someone made up or was a
malapropism (possibly correct use of that word...) if Vassily or
something. Now that I'm asking, folks are saying "yes, I have seen it,
it exists...", which I hadn't seen anyone do till now.
Frederick Scott
> In article <OhXJi.46316$L_7....@newsfe16.phx>,
> "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, there is a card named that. Yes, I've held it in my hand.
>
> Ah, see, you are the first person to actually say this--up till this
> point, there was still a hope that it was misinformation.
Hmmm. Sorry you feel that way but it doesn't seem like a bad thing
to me. I've often been annoyed by the tendency of players to Blood
Doll themselves afloat in the face of a strong offense, making for
mind-numbingly repititious, endless endgames. But the truth is, I'm
really bad at seeing where things like this wind up leading to so
I'll refrain from making up my mind until it's been in play for a
while.
Fred
craigs...@gmail.com
> >> 5 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
> >> dom for nec pot pre
> >> Margaret gets +1 bleed if Francis Milliner is ready. Cards that require
> >> Fortitude cost her an additional blood.
>
> All inferiors, two out-of-clan... Ok. Given the extra cost, not sure if For
> is a good option for her except in urgency...
>
5 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
*for nec pre* + dom pot
cap Follower of Set, Independent, Group 5
*for nec pre* + obf ser
...and I like playing allies, including Shamblers, in my FoS decks (as
rush defence).
A minor cool thing about them both being 5cap is the possibility of
using skill cards to boost them to PRE and then bloating down to extra
copies of themselves :-)
> >> 2 x Lady Constancia
> >> 10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4
> >> AUS DOM FOR NEC POT
> >> Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a
> >> discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its
> >> replacement from the other cards in your ash heap.
>
> Another fattie. Two votes, I don't like the AUS that much but FOR allows for
> Freak Drives, along with some other titled dominaters... Still, 10 is a lot,
> and it's not like Regina saw much light except for her recruit special.
>
> Orpheus
OK, pretend you hate her AUS and FOR, and wish she had been a lower
capacity.
The special could *still* make her totally worth it, particularly if
you use the occasional Liquidation to fuel your ash heap.
==> pull out the Lady, use her to retrieve Card X (Deflection,
whatever) which will allow you to survive along enough to Minion Tap
her. Tap her down to 4, and then pretend she's a midcap with an
excellent special :-)
BTW I saw Slam, and was like "hell yeah!"
Slam
Combat, potence, 1 blood
(pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage
(POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to
close range.
...totally sweet for pure POT, IMO.
preac...@gmx.at
> preache...@gmx.at wrote in news:1190636530.212578.264560
> > See, we FoS-lovers get the shaft, path-wise. We are not to complain,
> > cause "it's common as dirt and readily available" as it was put by
> > people in another thread.
>
> Not "people"... me. *shrug* Its my opinion about our COLLECTABLE card
> game, nothing more. BTW, I posted an email address, saying I was willing
> to mail out some spare Path of Typhon to a guy in Australia for cost of
> delivery (and I'd do the same for others). Guess how many people took me
> up on that offer? Thats right, none.
That's purely anecdotical, but nonetheless: I bought about 12 displays
of AH back in the WotC days. Several other players in my city did,
too. I gave away/binned all the stuff that I didn't need. I kept 6
Path of Typhoon (as I keep 6 of each unique library card, barring some
exceptions). At this moment, new players in our area have a very hard
time obtaining that path, if they wanted to.
I was pointing out that AH is not anymore so readily available as you
think it is. I acknowledge that you have tons of the path left, but
this in no way mitigates the problem for new players at large.
I'd guess that old and new players alike would prefer to just go over
and buy the path in a starter and have it in the *new* layout. But I
could be wrong. ;)
>
> > Those same people did not understand, that
> > to some players reprints in the new layout are highly appreciated...
>
> 'Appreciated' wasn't the previous verbiage... appreciated != necesary...
> and yet you remain correct, I don't agree with the need for all the old
> cards in new layout. I'd rather have more, better New cards in the new
> layout, instead.
I never stated that those cards I mentioned were necessary. Never.
We could have had both - new cards in the boosters (and look at those
new cards that come in the boosters, they *replace* a great number of
old cards which were not reprinted, so I think your wish has come
true) and older reprinted cards in the starters. One (1) copy of the
Path of Typhoon would have been nice. One (1) copy of Tongue of the
Serpent would have been nice. Perhaps one copy of Form of the Serpent,
too. I know that you can't have everything. :)
If you make a list of FoS/SER cards that have not been reprinted, you
come up with a number of gems and the list is quite long (20+ cards).
Seriously, the Form of Corruption is just plain wrong in the starter,
as it was reprinted lately in KMW and it hurts the game-flow (prey
tends to not bleed anymore in general). Instead, the Path would have
been appropriate. One of the S:CE cards could have been turned into a
Tongue. And I'm sure that the Form would have fit in somewhere, too. I
don't even go to Priestess of Sekmeth, Edge Vitiation(!), Typhonic
Beast, Skin of the Adder et al.
Look at the other starters. I'm missing Leonardo, Mortician in the
Giovanni Starter. Thin Blood and Wave of Lethargy could easily have
been included in the Assamite starter, and where is Rom Gypsy and
Sensory Deprivation in the Ravnos Starter?
Not that I'm complaining (too much), but I'm personally a *bit*
disappointed with the overall choice of reprints. But it seems, that's
just me. :(
Thanks for your comments, though, Dave.
Carl
Orpheus
>
> Slam
> Combat, potence, 1 blood
> (pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage
> (POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to
> close range.
>
> ...totally sweet for pure POT, IMO.
Or for Pot For.
Peter D Bakija
> Hmmm. Sorry you feel that way but it doesn't seem like a bad thing
> to me.
Oh, heh--I guess you missed all the earlier discussion on the subject.
A lot of folks have (once the card got spoiled) voiced not totally
unreasonable concern about the magic bulletness/forced
obsolescenceness (boy, is that probably spelled wrong...) of Blood
Doll that this card represents. Yeah, in and of itself, Vessel
(assuming the wording is akin to what was spoiled, although your
description matches) isn't that bad of a card, but that it burns Blood
Dolls while doing more or less the same thing means that it is likely
going to result in Blood Doll becoming marginalized (why play a Blood
Doll when it is just likely to be burned anyway?). Which might be good
for the game in an absolute sense, but it still is kind of a wonky way
to go about it.
I would have rather seen Blood Doll errata of some type and a Blood
Doll reprint that a magic bullet that kills Blood Dolls and
effectively replaces them at the same time.
-Peter
Blooded Sand
Spelling correct. And agreed, but the use of this card is not near
that of BD's. It takes 3 turns to make a profit, BD is immediate. So
BD + Vessel could see play, I guess...
Peter D Bakija
> Spelling correct. And agreed, but the use of this card is not near
> that of BD's. It takes 3 turns to make a profit, BD is immediate. So
> BD + Vessel could see play, I guess
Sure--Vessel is mostly just not as good as Blood Doll. It is probably
the level of use that Blood Doll should have been all along (as Blood
Doll is arguably just too good). But rather than fixing Blood Doll,
Vessel is likely going to arms-race Blood Doll out of existance--when
Vessel enters circulation, Blood Dolls look less and less attractive.
Which makes folks use Blood Doll less and rely on the one shot pool
gain cards (Tribute and Tap) and rely on Vessel for long term pool
gain. Which again, as noted, might be totally reasonable in terms of
overall game play. But the mechanism that is "printing a specific card
that makes Blood Doll likely too risky to be worth playing" seems
possibly questionable.
-Peter
LSJ
> But the mechanism that is "printing a specific card
> that makes Blood Doll likely too risky to be worth playing" seems
> possibly questionable.
Again, what is risky? Blood Doll costs no pool and pays benefit immediately (if
you're setting up the example to burn the BD on the very next turn), and players
normally pack more than one. Sudden Reversal already makes Blood Doll "riskier"
than Vessel does.
Besides, the mechanism of a new card making an old card riskier (for real) is
nothing new.
Peter D Bakija
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> Again, what is risky?
Losing the card--that is the risk. Currently, you risk losing the card
to SR, which you risk losing all masters to. But as SR doesn't gain the
person playing it (other than making you lose your MPA, which is often
good, but still just making you lose something and not making them gain
something), they don't show up constantly, and even when in hand, often
are saved for a clinch. And also only work if you have the SR in hand
right then.
Vessel kills your Blood Doll and gains the person playing it, their own
Blood Doll. So in all likelyhood, once Vessel hits wide circulation,
they'll show up a lot, which makes playing Blood Doll much less good, as
the likelyhood of losing the Blood Doll becomes high, even after it is
in play.
So Blood Doll becomes a marginalized card. Which clearly is the whole
point. But still, the mechanism is a bit wonky.
> Besides, the mechanism of a new card making an old card riskier (for real) is
> nothing new.
Well, the specific naming of one card on a trumpy other card is new. And
not necessarily something that is a good idea.