[Deck] Ventrue - Antitribu: How do these guys win games???
HD
having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
Crypt:
Jesse Menks DOM, FOR, AUS, ani Archbishop, special
2 Owain Evans DOM, FOR, AUS, pre, cel Hunting Ground
2 Black Horse Tanner DOM, FOR, AUS Black Hand, special
Joseph O'Grady DOM, FOR, aus, cel +1 strength, special
Edward Neally DOM, FOR, aus specail
Charice Fontaigne DOM, for, AUS, pot
Vanessa DOM, FOR, aus, pre
Ingrid Russo DOM, for
Peter Blain dom, for, aus
March Halcyon for
Masters:
5 Blood Doll
Hunting Ground
Ventrue Investment
2 Coniver
2 Perfectionist
Information Highway
Anarch Troublemaker
Slave Auction
2 Sudden Reversal
Actions:
8 Govern the Unaligned
2 Restoration
2 Rapid Healing
4 Force of Will
Action Modifiers:
3 Bonding
4 Conditioning
2 Freak Drive
2 Day Operations
Kiss of Ra
Combat:
4 Skin of Rock
4 Unfliching Persitence
2 Rolling with the Punches
4 Skin of Steel
Reactions:
9 Deflections
3 Melange
3 Precognition
3 Spirit's Touch
3 Enhanced Senses
3 Telepathic Counter
5 Forced Awakenings
Equipment:
Sport Bike
.44 Magnum
Ok, so what do you think of it? It seems to need more combat defense,
something else to deal with a strong vote deck, and a more focused
offense. But I'm not sure how to go about making it stronger. Any
suggestions??
Thanks in advance for any comments...
Cheers,
Howard
Curevei
>having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
Monoclan? Storyline? TWDA?
I don't see this deck having a clear plan for winning. That isn't all bad as
people may ignore you and screw each other over. One of the first !Ventrue
decks I ever built functioned by virtue of being ignored at times and, of
course, having Dominate.
A possibility, and one that Ventrue don't necessarily do (much) better, is to
focus on DOM/FOR unblockable bleed. You have that as a minor theme in this
deck already. Rather than clutter up the deck with bunches of intercept, could
have a highly focused deck that basically does: tap with Revelations or
Scrounging or hunting (with Coyote), Force of Will, Daring the Dawn, Freak,
Rapid Heal; Wake/bounce; DI or DT the occasional annoying vote; random combat
defense. Edward is particularly useful to this sort of deck. Scrounging is
perfect for FoW decks. They got a lot more vampires with the right disciplines
in recent sets.
Could be monotonous. Just that other !Ventrue decks I've built would tend to
be better if they weren't !Ventrue or weren't built at all. Forcing Obt for
stealth? Could just play a clan with Dom and stealth. Vote? Could just play
Ventrue. BH? Could just not bother with BH cards. Etc.
Fredrik Appelberg
> I would like to put together a decent deck for the !Ventrue, but I am
> having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
>
>
> Crypt:
> Jesse Menks DOM, FOR, AUS, ani Archbishop, special
> 2 Owain Evans DOM, FOR, AUS, pre, cel Hunting Ground
> 2 Black Horse Tanner DOM, FOR, AUS Black Hand, special
> Joseph O'Grady DOM, FOR, aus, cel +1 strength, special
> Edward Neally DOM, FOR, aus specail
> Charice Fontaigne DOM, for, AUS, pot
> Vanessa DOM, FOR, aus, pre
> Ingrid Russo DOM, for
> Peter Blain dom, for, aus
> March Halcyon for
>
> Masters:
> 5 Blood Doll
> Hunting Ground
> Ventrue Investment
> 2 Coniver
> 2 Perfectionist
> Information Highway
> Anarch Troublemaker
> Slave Auction
> 2 Sudden Reversal
Demonstration. Always put Demonstration in a !Ventrue deck. Always. ;)
I played a lot of !Ventrue before Black Hand and didn't have much
success. My favourite deck was a political deck based on Quentin,
Demonstration and Telepathic Vote Counting which was pretty effective in
shutting down other vote decks but never seemed to win anyway. Now, with
the new great midcaps and a decent archbishop (finally), I think you
could probably put together a good vote deck.
Or you could go for the ever-popular Lazverinus multirush deck. He is
arguably one of the scariest vampires you can face in combat. :)
Cheers,
-- Fredrik
Saaristo
>
> I played a lot of !Ventrue before Black Hand and didn't have much
> success. My favourite deck was a political deck based on Quentin,
> Demonstration and Telepathic Vote Counting which was pretty effective in
> shutting down other vote decks but never seemed to win anyway. Now, with
> the new great midcaps and a decent archbishop (finally), I think you
> could probably put together a good vote deck.
>
> Or you could go for the ever-popular Lazverinus multirush deck. He is
> arguably one of the scariest vampires you can face in combat. :)
>
> Cheers,
> -- Fredrik
This guy is onto something here. I have strong faith in the
capabilities of mr. Quentin, coupled with Telepathic Vote Counting and
Demonstration he is a monster in the voting arena. Its quite a
different deck but its my favourite concept out of the !ventrue, so
ill ramble on about it for a bit.
I would suggest you going for a fairly large cap crypt with a big
emphasis on Quentin, have Jesse Menks and Gustav Mallenhaus as his
primary sidekicks, go with 2 demonstration and a powerbase madrid. If
you set up like this you are not only backed with lots of titles and
TVC to push votes through, but you can screw practically any presence
based votedeck over, since you can most of the time burn a blood from
quentin or tap demonstration to foil a presence vampires voting antics
before or after presence votemodifiers get played. your ousting method
should probably be damaging votes coupled with some seat switching
votes, and not forgetting the dominate which all of these main players
would have at superior. Maybe you should go for the nauseating
throttle angle : lots of freaks, governs and scouts. So in theory,
quentin comes out and govern-freak-scouts out jesse in 1 turn for the
measly cost of 3 pool, and so forth. im not sure it would go all that
well with a deck that has a strong emphasis on voting though. maybe
just a bunch of governs. Stealth ritus is an excellent card for the
!ventrue, although costly, but surely worth 2-4 slots in any deck like
this. Creepshow Casino is a cool hangout for these !Ven also. Dont
forget the new crocodiles tongue, easily worth some slots to
demoralize blocking your votes.
anyway, what you should look for for a !ventrue deck is a key vampire
to start your deck off. Quentin is one such, my favourite as said
earlier, others prefer Lazverinus but the two are a completely
different affair, or should be atleast. Crypt machinery workings are
also good and common !ventrue buff which you should use even if you
want to build a block heavy deck. govern govern govern!
good luck,
ville
Alex Broadhead
> I would like to put together a decent deck for the !Ventrue, but I am
> having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
<snip>
I'd like to think I could make some useful suggestions... But I'm
pretty sure I can just make suggestions. <insert smiley thing here>
I have tried decks that resemble your design a few times without much
luck. Block and prevent doesn't work very well, as it doesn't
dissuade people from trying to act, and there are unfortunately many
ways to get around prevent. The closest thing I had to a !Ventue
intercept deck used a bunch (6+) of Concealed Sawed-Offs. They were
pretty good as bruise going forward too - when any !Ventrue can hit
you like Lazverinus (once) people pay more attention.
Here's a couple pre-Gehenna decks I've had some success with. Not a
lot, but then 1) I'm playing them and 2) they're !Ventrue decks.
Deck Name: In the Red
Created By: Alex Broadhead
Description: !Ventrue bleed via the kitchen sink method. DO + FO.
Storyline legal.
NOTE: There's no good reason that this deck should be Sabbat only; a
better deck would either use a lot of DO/FO Camarilla Ventrue, or
would be dom weenies/DOM small-caps of all stripes.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 9, Max: 28, Avg: 4.92)
---------------------------------------------
1 Christine Boscacci dom vic 2, Pander:2
3 Edward Neally aus DOM FOR pre 7, Ventrue antitribu:3
1 Ingrid Russo DOM for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Joseph O`Grady aus cel DOM FOR 7, Ventrue Antitribu:3
1 Marlene AUS dem DOM for tha 6, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Peter Blaine aus dom for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Royce dom 1, Pander:2
1 Samson dom 2, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Truman dom FOR pot SAN 6, Blood Brother:2
1 Vanessa aus DOM FOR pre 6, Ventrue Antitribu:2
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (15 cards)
1 Anarch Troublemaker
4 Blood Doll
1 Corporate Hunting Ground
1 Demonstration
1 Festivo dello Estinto
3 Fortitude
1 Hungry Coyote, The
1 Pentex(TM) Loves You!
1 Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The
1 Unnatural Disaster
Action (20 cards)
1 Dominate Kine
1 Far Mastery
8 Govern the Unaligned
1 Mind Rape
3 Rapid Healing
3 Restoration
3 Revelations
Action Modifier (28 cards)
6 Bonding
4 Change of Target
2 Daring the Dawn
2 Foreshadowing Destruction
4 Freak Drive
2 Kiss of Ra, The
6 Seduction
2 Sleeping Mind, The
Reaction (12 cards)
4 Deflection
4 Redirection
4 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
Combat (14 cards)
4 Hidden Strength
2 Pulled Fangs
4 Rolling with the Punches
4 Skin of Steel
Equipment (1 cards)
1 Ivory Bow
This deck was last saved at 3:54:00 PM on 6/8/04
Like the description says, kitchen sink bleed. It's been working
better since the group 3 !Ventrue came out, as their specials are
pretty special, and their disciplines include a lot more FOR. Mostly
you should bide your time and look as unthreatening as you can with
DOM... Revelations (inferior) and Eddy should get a lot of use, and
it's not too hard to send a really massive bleed or set of bleeds
right down the middle when they can least handle it.
Deck Name: Pyramid Scheme (v.3)
Created By: Alex Broadhead
Description: Vote 'n' bloat with a twist. !Ven + ot.
Vote yourself the prey of the biggest (stealth) bleeder at the table.
Bounce his bleeds to your prey while you bloat and opportunistically
vote damage. Life Boon your prey, grandprey, and grandpredator if
possible. Then oust everyone at once with Anarchists...
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 12, Max: 34, Avg: 5.83)
----------------------------------------------
1 Blackhorse Tanner AUS DOM FOR 7, Ventrue antitribu:3
2 Gerard aus dom for obt 5, Ventrue Antitribu:2
2 Gustav Mallenhous AUS DOM for obt 8, Ventrue Antitribu:2,
Priscus
1 Ingrid Russo DOM for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Joseph O`Grady aus cel DOM FOR 7, Ventrue Antitribu:3
1 Juan Cali aus for 3, Ventrue Antitribu:2
2 Quentin AUS cel DOM FOR obt 9, Ventrue Antitribu:2,
Bishop
1 Samson dom 2, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Sister Evelyn aus dom 3, Ventrue antitribu:3
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (15 cards)
1 Corporate Hunting Ground
1 Creepshow Casino
1 Demonstration
1 Dia de los Muertos
1 Festivo dello Estinto
1 Gird Minions
1 Guru
3 Life Boon
1 Parthenon, The
1 Powerbase: Madrid
3 Ventrue Investment
Action (8 cards)
4 Creation Rites
4 Scouting Mission
Action Modifier (17 cards)
1 Blanket of Night
1 Cryptic Rider
3 Freak Drive
1 Kindred Manipulation
1 Private Audience
1 Shadow Play
3 Shroud of Absence
3 Shroud of Night
1 Stone Travel
1 Telepathic Vote Counting
1 Tenebrous Form
Political Action (25 cards)
3 Anarchist Uprising
1 Ancient Influence
1 Banishment
3 Cardinal Benediction
6 Consanguineous Boon
6 Conservative Agitation
1 Disputed Territory
3 Dramatic Upheaval
1 Rumors of Gehenna
Reaction (18 cards)
3 Deflection
1 Loyalist
3 Redirection
3 Telepathic Misdirection
8 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
Combat (6 cards)
3 Skin of Steel
3 Superior Mettle
Equipment (1 cards)
1 Chalice of Kinship
This deck was last saved at 3:55:31 PM on 6/8/04
This one has permuted a bunch since my newsletter days. It may well
work better without the Life Boon/Anarchist angle, which is easily
stripped out in favor of more useful Masters and damaging votes. It's
!Ventrue with obt, so that you can hopefully stealth vote. Much of
the deck is devoted to bloat, via Scouting (not much blood gain, but
can be action/Wake intensive, so not Govern), Con Boon, and Ventrue
Invest (torpid Creation Rites work just fine for either). Get out
Quentin or Gustav, then start Scouting and Waking. Can usually pass
votes, though often just by one, which is fine without PRE.
Hope that helps,
Alex
!Ventrue Newsletter Editor Emeritus
Dasein
> Jesse Menks DOM, FOR, AUS, ani Archbishop, special
> 2 Owain Evans DOM, FOR, AUS, pre, cel Hunting Ground
> 2 Black Horse Tanner DOM, FOR, AUS Black Hand, special
> Joseph O'Grady DOM, FOR, aus, cel +1 strength, special
> Edward Neally DOM, FOR, aus specail
> Charice Fontaigne DOM, for, AUS, pot
> Vanessa DOM, FOR, aus, pre
> Ingrid Russo DOM, for
> Peter Blain dom, for, aus
> March Halcyon for
I'm not an expert at this game but I play a fair bit of !ventrue so
I'll add a few comments.
Ingrid Russo is one of the best vamps you have in your arsenal,
definitely pack 2 of her. For only 4 pool she gives you superior
dominate (best discipline in the game) and fortitude, which works well
at inferior. Auspex is a poor third in the !ventrue's arsenal, so
maybe ditch vanessa or Peter in exchange for the second Ingrid.
> Masters:
> 5 Blood Doll
maybe 3 or 4 dolls and a couple of minion taps.
> 2 Coniver
ditch em
> 2 Perfectionist
keep em, best archetype in the game
> Anarch Troublemaker
why?
and where is your demonstration?? one of the most useful voting cards
in the game. Even if you're not playing a vote deck, you can screw
just about any deck's vote lock, which can shut down KRC sleaze decks,
help decide blood hunts, gives you a great deal-making card, etc.
> Actions:
> 8 Govern the Unaligned
> 2 Restoration
> 2 Rapid Healing
> 4 Force of Will
maybe lose the forces. I think force only works in very specific
torpor-cycle decks, which isn't how !ventrue should be played.
> Action Modifiers:
> 3 Bonding
> 4 Conditioning
> 2 Freak Drive
I'd play 3 or 4 (or more) freaks). Freak drive rocks the house. Play
it after a bleed or (preferably) after a SUP Govern.
> Combat:
> 4 Skin of Rock
> 4 Unfliching Persitence
> 2 Rolling with the Punches
> 4 Skin of Steel
>
> Reactions:
> 9 Deflections
> 3 Melange
> 3 Precognition
> 3 Spirit's Touch
> 3 Enhanced Senses
I'd lose the enhanced senses. You're probably not going to be blocking
big stealth actions (bleeds at +4 or so stealth), so just some light
intercept to block votes, equipment, etc. Block and soak, followed by
big bleeds. that's how ventrue and !ventrue like to play.
> 3 Telepathic Counter
> 5 Forced Awakenings
probably more wakes... especially if you'll be bleeding a lot.
> Equipment:
> Sport Bike
> .44 Magnum
Ditch the bike. You don't want to be spending actions getting cards
that are non-essential to your deck's strategy. I'd change the magnum
for a sat night special or maybe a couple of jackets. with no
additional strikes or psyches the 2 damage from a magnum isn't much
different from the 1 from a special, you're really getting it for the
manuever.
!ventrue can win games. Although they have auspex instead of the
Ventrue's presence (not as useful for the sort of strategy these clans
use), they have some excellent vampires with useful abilities, and
some very cool unique clan cards (demonstration and ventrue
investment). Between demonstration and Quentin and a superior TVC, you
don't need many votes on the table to get significant voting power. My
!ventrue deck is vote/bleed, and it often does well. The new powerful
auspex card Croc Tongue in Gehenna could make them more formidable
too. My friend boned me with that card in his horrible Tzimisce deck.
as someone mentioned the other way to play !ventrue is to make a
focused Laz deck, who can rip nine colours of shit out of just about
any vampire he gets into combat with.
Hollowboy
> I would like to put together a decent deck for the !Ventrue, but I am
> having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
>
>
> Ok, so what do you think of it? It seems to need more combat defense,
> something else to deal with a strong vote deck, and a more focused
> offense. But I'm not sure how to go about making it stronger. Any
> suggestions??
>
Deflection, which is OK, but unexciting. If it were my deck, I'd tweak
a few cards with the intent of de-fanging vampires who got in my way,
use some wake (rether than all forced) to go with the Deflections, and
add a Demonstration or two.
general options:
1) Big-cap aggressive voting. IMO, regular OBF Ventrue can do it
better / more easily... I would prefer an option !Ven can do better
than anyone else.
2) Breeding. Use Lazverinus to Creation Rites / Freak Drive / Govern
down. Do it for two turns (depleting him), and then Golconda him and
start over. Mix in a few Consanguinous boon for bloat like crazy.
Again, Lasombra can possibly do the same thing better (stealth, Power
Structure PRE vamps for Voter Captivation), so not how I'd choose to
use !Ven.
3) A HoS hybrid. I play this sometimes, with a little bloat (blood
dolls, Superior Govern), and a fair bit of intercept combat (Laz
and/or Joseph). Rather than mill with Slaughterhouse, my secret sauce
is 3 Agaitas, 4 Dreams of the Sphinx, 3 Demonstrations and 4 Dramatic
Upheaval. The idea is to sit behid the deck with the most fortitude
and other disciplines in common, and mill them through combat, by
swipe their generic masters, and so on.
My key vampires have a lot of commonly played disciplines, so usually
I can use quite a few of the cards I steal, spectacularly so against
some decks (like Blood Brothers, where I might draw 4 or 5 cards in a
row that I can use right back at them in combat). I use Dreams to
pitch the rest. I haven't yet needed to use Dramatic Upheaval to swap
seating to get where the stealing is sweeter.
It works better than it should. Too well, really - at its best (?) I
had my prey quit in disgust when I put a stolen Protean Master on
Laz, then used Agaitas to steal an earth control as it's replacement.
...so I don't really play this deck much anymore :(
4) A Black Hand Hybrid. Not too different to what you can do with
regular !Ven. I have an OK deck like this with 6 Magnums to conceal,
10 Reunions for speed / bloat and a toolbox of assorted crap. It's
nifty but awfully slow, and keeps getting splattered by PTO - kudos to
you if you can take such an idea and make it fly :-)
5) Mid / weenie Anarchs. I haven't tried it, but Joseph looks like one
of the better vamps to go anarch with, cos (like Stefano Giovanni) he
can gain a vote, yet is not titled, plus he gives good 3-way. That guy
with the roadkill stapled to his head would be neat too, his
disciplines are all over the place.
The untap angle could be big - A Ven / !Ven cryprt could give you
Ventrue HQ *and* Demonstration, to get (and keep) Firebrands. Freak
Drive and Rutor's Hand are also options - you could double on Marlene
and Vincent for the latter.
Vincent and Joseph are the bomb for Free States Rant: neither have
titles, so can go anarch, yet their abilities can give you 2 extra
votes on the FSR. You could perhaps Fame and drain your prey, then
block and de-fang them.
Oortje4ever
it here.
www.oortje.bravehost.com
But it is realy boring.
I have seen a desent !ventrue deck which is just like yours. Its the
playstyle that makes the diffrence.
style:
Blocking and preventing like hell and collect all the bleed in your
hand (4 tops 5 cards). when your pray taps out on minion to much start
bleeding like a mofo. It depends on the situation if it is possible.
nice thing: your pray is never save on 12 pool. if you start
"topdecking" more bleed you can make it 15 or even 18.
oortje
www.oortje.bravehost.com
pallando
news:c0922a66.0406...@posting.google.com...
Hi Hd,
I won't comment on the details of your deck because others have done that
before. Instead I wanted to say a few words about the !ventrue. They never
were an obvious clan to win games. Everything you did with them, be it
combat, bleed, or intercept, there was another clan / deck that could do it
better.
I believe this has changed with the advent of the Black Hand set. The
!ventrue from that set were really outstanding. The abilities of Blackhorse
and Owain are outstanding. True, Edward Neally from CE was also quite good,
but a single vampire couldn't turn the tide. Only the vampires from Black
Hand gave me a good reason to play !ventrue. If I was looking to play a
highly competitive deck, that is.
Below you can find a deck that makes good use of the !ventrue disciplines
and specials. So far, the deck performed quite well. Even when it didn't
look very good for me at the beginning I managed to recover and take some
VPs.
The star of the deck is Owain Evans. He should be in any !ventrue deck,
really. The reason I didn't put him in more often is that with this deck you
want to get out as many vampires as possible. Maybe you could replace Gustav
with a third Owain. But I had them both out in some games, and Gustav's
title and +1 bleed is nothing to sneeze at.
You could try the same thing without Auspex with Ventrue. But I think Owain
and Blackhorse alone make it worth playing !ventrue. Also, you can build an
efficient crypt machine with them because they have nice vampires of all
sizes.
Deck Name: Ventrue antitribu Crypt Machine
Created By: pallando
Description: Get a big vampire out first. Build up with the Governs and
defend. Stay low and wait for the right moment. Then go for the kill in a
single turn.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 15, Max: 31, Avg: 5,92)
----------------------------------------------
1 Juan Cali aus for 3, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Sister Evelyn aus dom 3, Ventrue antitribu:3
1 Ingrid Russo DOM for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Billy AUS dom for 5, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Charice Fontaigne for pot AUS DOM 6, Ventrue antitribu:3
1 Marlene AUS dem DOM for tha 6, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Vanessa aus DOM FOR pre 6, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Blackhorse Tanner AUS DOM FOR 7, Ventrue antitribu:3
1 Gustav Mallenhous AUS DOM for obt 8, Ventrue Antitribu:2, Priscus
1 Edward Neally aus DOM FOR pre 7, Ventrue antitribu:3
2 Owain Evans cel pre AUS DOM FOR 8, Ventrue antitribu:3
Library: (80 cards)
-------------------
Master (14 cards)
5 Blood Doll
1 Corporate Hunting Ground
2 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Emergency Preparations
1 Giant's Blood
1 Information Highway
2 Sudden Reversal
1 Visit from the Capuchin
Action (10 cards)
8 Govern the Unaligned
2 Zillah's Tears
Action Modifier (21 cards)
4 Bonding
3 Conditioning
4 Daring the Dawn
2 Freak Drive
1 Kiss of Ra, The
5 Seduction
2 Threats
Reaction (24 cards)
4 Deflection
4 Enhanced Senses
2 My Enemy's Enemy
2 Obedience
2 Redirection
2 Telepathic Counter
2 Telepathic Misdirection
6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
Combat (11 cards)
5 Rolling with the Punches
6 Skin of Steel
Hope this helps.
pallando
--
pallando(at)gmx(dot)at
Emmit Svenson
> and where is your demonstration?? one of the most useful voting cards
> in the game. Even if you're not playing a vote deck, you can screw
> just about any deck's vote lock, which can shut down KRC sleaze decks,
> help decide blood hunts, gives you a great deal-making card, etc.
Demonstration is a great card, but it can't be used in blood hunts.
HD
> "HD" <hdma...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c0922a66.0406...@posting.google.com...
>
> Hi Hd,
>
> I won't comment on the details of your deck because others have done that
> before.
Actually, not too many people made comments about my deck. Most
people talked about the !Ventrue in general. A few more comments
about the deck itself would be nice.
> Instead I wanted to say a few words about the !ventrue. They never
> were an obvious clan to win games. Everything you did with them, be it
> combat, bleed, or intercept, there was another clan / deck that could do it
> better.
>
> I believe this has changed with the advent of the Black Hand set. The
> !ventrue from that set were really outstanding. The abilities of Blackhorse
> and Owain are outstanding.
Yeah, those are the guys that caused me to revisit the !Ventrue and
see what I could do with them. The combination of Owain, Blackhorse,
Edward Neally, and Joseph O'Grady is pretty damn good. And now they
have Jesse Menks to round things out quite nicely (Gehenna). These
vampires were a great addition to the !Ventrue, and since they really
needed a bit of help (IMHO), I think it's one of the best improvements
to a clan that White Wolf has achieved lately.
I am surprised that you use Juan Cali and Sister Evelyn. Why are they
in your crypt?
> Library: (80 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (14 cards)
> 5 Blood Doll
> 1 Corporate Hunting Ground
> 2 Dreams of the Sphinx
> 1 Emergency Preparations
> 1 Giant's Blood
> 1 Information Highway
> 2 Sudden Reversal
> 1 Visit from the Capuchin
Do you find that Visit from the Capuchin is very useful? I haven't
done much with it yet.
> Action (10 cards)
> 8 Govern the Unaligned
> 2 Zillah's Tears
>
> Action Modifier (21 cards)
> 4 Bonding
> 3 Conditioning
> 4 Daring the Dawn
> 2 Freak Drive
> 1 Kiss of Ra, The
> 5 Seduction
> 2 Threats
>
> Reaction (24 cards)
> 4 Deflection
> 4 Enhanced Senses
> 2 My Enemy's Enemy
This is an excellent card in the right deck. I wish that I had more
of them...
> 2 Obedience
> 2 Redirection
> 2 Telepathic Counter
> 2 Telepathic Misdirection
> 6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
>
> Combat (11 cards)
> 5 Rolling with the Punches
> 6 Skin of Steel
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> pallando
Thanks! It did help quite a bit. Looking at a deck that works well
is very useful. It gave me a lot of ideas. :o)
Why are there only 2 Freak Drives?? Just curious...
Cheers,
Howard
HD
> >I would like to put together a decent deck for the !Ventrue, but I am
> >having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
>
> Monoclan? Storyline? TWDA?
Just regular old VTES constructed events. I didn't go out of clan
simply because I didn't see any decent vampires outside of the
!Venture with the main diciplines I am using. Do you have any other
recommendations?
BTW - What is "TWDA"?
Yeah, that's the basic idea. But it seemed a bit weak and I wanted to
jazz it up a bit. And I thought that a more focused approach would be
better... I just wasn't sure which way to take it.
> A possibility, and one that Ventrue don't necessarily do (much) better, is to
> focus on DOM/FOR unblockable bleed. You have that as a minor theme in this
> deck already. Rather than clutter up the deck with bunches of intercept, could
> have a highly focused deck that basically does: tap with Revelations or
> Scrounging or hunting (with Coyote), Force of Will, Daring the Dawn, Freak,
> Rapid Heal; Wake/bounce; DI or DT the occasional annoying vote; random combat
> defense. Edward is particularly useful to this sort of deck. Scrounging is
> perfect for FoW decks. They got a lot more vampires with the right disciplines in recent sets.
The unblockable bleed sounds pretty cool. I may mess around with that
a bit. Is there a clan or group of vampires that you think would
achieve this strategy better than the !venture? What do you do about
the bounce? ...Change of Traget?? Just curious....
> Could be monotonous. Just that other !Ventrue decks I've built would tend to
> be better if they weren't !Ventrue or weren't built at all. Forcing Obt for
> stealth? Could just play a clan with Dom and stealth. Vote? Could just
> play Ventrue. BH? Could just not bother with BH cards. Etc.
Kind of frustrating, eh? That's what I was coming up against as I
tried to make use of these guys in the past. But now they seem to
have some really great vampires from the last few sets, and I would
like to figure out a way to use their diciplines to greater effect.
We'll see how it goes...
Cheers,
Howard
HD
Good idea. I don't know why I left that out...
> I played a lot of !Ventrue before Black Hand and didn't have much
> success. My favourite deck was a political deck based on Quentin,
> Demonstration and Telepathic Vote Counting which was pretty effective in
> shutting down other vote decks but never seemed to win anyway. Now, with
> the new great midcaps and a decent archbishop (finally), I think you
> could probably put together a good vote deck.
>
> Or you could go for the ever-popular Lazverinus multirush deck. He is
> arguably one of the scariest vampires you can face in combat. :)
I really like having Laz on the table, but I haven't made any decks
based around him that were truly exceptional. I may revisit that deck
sometime to see if any of the new cards fit in there very well.
Crocodile's Tounge seems like a possibility... and maybe Jack of Both
Sides for getting a few nasty weapons (Bang Nakh, Hand of Conrad,
etc.) Any other ideas?
> Cheers,
> -- Fredrik
Thanks,
Howard
HD
These are good deck ideas. Unfortuantely, I'm not really in the mood
for building vote decks right now. I usually focus on other aspects
and strategies, and I only get around to building voting decks now and
then. I'm not sure why they often don't appeal to me... I guess it's
because I find them to be fairly frustrating (I'm not very good at
usuing them) and I don't like switching seats (a common element in
vote decks). I might give your vote deck a try later on, but first
I'm going to incorporate just a few of your other suggestions and see
if it helps.
> anyway, what you should look for for a !ventrue deck is a key vampire
> to start your deck off. Quentin is one such, my favourite as said
> earlier, others prefer Lazverinus but the two are a completely
> different affair, or should be atleast. Crypt machinery workings are
> also good and common !ventrue buff which you should use even if you
> want to build a block heavy deck. govern govern govern!
Always a good place to start, eh? ;o)
>
> good luck,
> ville
Thanks,
Howard
HD
> Howdy Howard,
>
> > I would like to put together a decent deck for the !Ventrue, but I am
> > having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
>
> <snip>
>
> I'd like to think I could make some useful suggestions... But I'm
> pretty sure I can just make suggestions. <insert smiley thing here>
Funny. :o) ANY suggestions are helpful. But you know that...
> I have tried decks that resemble your design a few times without much
> luck. Block and prevent doesn't work very well, as it doesn't
> dissuade people from trying to act, and there are unfortunately many
> ways to get around prevent.
Right. I was thinking about adding Weighted Walking sticks or
something else like that to add a little something to the combat. But
I haven't decided on anything yet.
> The closest thing I had to a !Ventue
> intercept deck used a bunch (6+) of Concealed Sawed-Offs. They were
> pretty good as bruise going forward too - when any !Ventrue can hit
> you like Lazverinus (once) people pay more attention.
Sounds pretty cool. And maybe with Jack of Both Sides, you could
offset the cost a bit. Of course, weapons that are concealed are a
nice surprise.
> Here's a couple pre-Gehenna decks I've had some success with. Not a
> lot, but then 1) I'm playing them and 2) they're !Ventrue decks.
>
>
> Deck Name: In the Red
> Created By: Alex Broadhead
> Description: !Ventrue bleed via the kitchen sink method. DO + FO.
> Storyline legal.
>
> NOTE: There's no good reason that this deck should be Sabbat only; a
> better deck would either use a lot of DO/FO Camarilla Ventrue, or
> would be dom weenies/DOM small-caps of all stripes.
What is "DO/FO"? I don't recongnize that.
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 9, Max: 28, Avg: 4.92)
> ---------------------------------------------
> 1 Christine Boscacci dom vic 2, Pander:2
Why not someone else?
> 3 Edward Neally aus DOM FOR pre 7, Ventrue antitribu:3
> 1 Ingrid Russo DOM for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
> 1 Joseph O`Grady aus cel DOM FOR 7, Ventrue Antitribu:3
> 1 Marlene AUS dem DOM for tha 6, Ventrue Antitribu:2
> 1 Peter Blaine aus dom for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
> 1 Royce dom 1, Pander:2
> 1 Samson dom 2, Ventrue Antitribu:2
> 1 Truman dom FOR pot SAN 6, Blood Brother:2
What is Truman doing in here?
> 1 Vanessa aus DOM FOR pre 6, Ventrue Antitribu:2
>
> Library: (90 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (15 cards)
> 1 Anarch Troublemaker
> 4 Blood Doll
> 1 Corporate Hunting Ground
> 1 Demonstration
> 1 Festivo dello Estinto
Do you find that you get blocked a lot with this one? I usally don't
include it unless I have some stealth or big bruise combat angle. How
do use it?
> 3 Fortitude
> 1 Hungry Coyote, The
> 1 Pentex(TM) Loves You!
> 1 Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The
> 1 Unnatural Disaster
No Sudden Reversal? Hmmm..... Interesting. I was recently talking
with someone that thought a deck should always have 2 Dreams of the
Spinx, 2 Suddens, and 2 Direct Intervention. I'm not sure about that,
but it sounds fairly strong. What do you think of that?
> Action (20 cards)
> 1 Dominate Kine
Good idea. I didn't include that for some reason. Thanks.
> 1 Far Mastery
I'm not sure if this is worth the card slot. How often do you get to
use it?
> 8 Govern the Unaligned
> 1 Mind Rape
Don't you get blocked? It seems like this would be hard to pull off.
> 3 Rapid Healing
> 3 Restoration
> 3 Revelations
>
> Action Modifier (28 cards)
> 6 Bonding
> 4 Change of Target
I forgot about these. Not a bad idea...
> 2 Daring the Dawn
> 2 Foreshadowing Destruction
> 4 Freak Drive
> 2 Kiss of Ra, The
> 6 Seduction
> 2 Sleeping Mind, The
This card is ok, but it always seems to sit in my hand or come up when
I'm low on blood. When do you use it for the best effect?
> Reaction (12 cards)
> 4 Deflection
> 4 Redirection
> 4 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
Only 4 wakes with 8 bounce cards? How does that work?
> Combat (14 cards)
> 4 Hidden Strength
> 2 Pulled Fangs
> 4 Rolling with the Punches
> 4 Skin of Steel
>
> Equipment (1 cards)
> 1 Ivory Bow
>
> This deck was last saved at 3:54:00 PM on 6/8/04
>
> Like the description says, kitchen sink bleed. It's been working
> better since the group 3 !Ventrue came out, as their specials are
> pretty special, and their disciplines include a lot more FOR. Mostly
> you should bide your time and look as unthreatening as you can with
> DOM... Revelations (inferior) and Eddy should get a lot of use, and
> it's not too hard to send a really massive bleed or set of bleeds
> right down the middle when they can least handle it.
Sounds pretty good. I'll try to incorporate of few of these
strategies...
Hmmm... I'm going to have to think about this one a bit. It's not
something I would usually think to play, so it might take me a while
to figure out the best way to use this strategy. I would probably
learn a thing or two by running this deck for a while...
Thanks,
Howard
Colin McGuigan
> BTW - What is "TWDA"?
Tournament Winning Deck Archive.
http://thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm
--Colin McGuigan
Fredrik Appelberg
> I really like having Laz on the table, but I haven't made any decks
> based around him that were truly exceptional. I may revisit that deck
> sometime to see if any of the new cards fit in there very well.
> Crocodile's Tounge seems like a possibility... and maybe Jack of Both
> Sides for getting a few nasty weapons (Bang Nakh, Hand of Conrad,
> etc.) Any other ideas?
To be effective, you really need to tailor the deck around Laz and his
amazing descipline spread. His POT gives you Immortal Grapple and Death
of my Conscience; as he has strength +2 to start with you really don't
need any strike cards. DOM for Govern, Scouting Mission, bounce and
Thoughts Betrayed. FOR for freak drive and prevent. AUS for intercept
and maybe a Pulse. And finally inferior proteat for Claws, so that you
will actually burn people in combat.
I found that there were essntially two ways you could go with Laz:
either you built an intercept wall with Eternal Vigilance or you go for
multirush. You need to focus on one approach though.
I built my deck on Lazverinus and the lone star, supported by the 2-cap
dom vampires and Ingrid Russo. But there are other vamps that have
better synergy with Laz: Lizette Vizquel, Hrothulf, Faruq and Fransisco
Domingo de Polonia for example.
Good luck,
-- Fredrik
Darky
> having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
>
>
> Crypt:
> Jesse Menks DOM, FOR, AUS, ani Archbishop, special
> 2 Owain Evans DOM, FOR, AUS, pre, cel Hunting Ground
> 2 Black Horse Tanner DOM, FOR, AUS Black Hand, special
> Joseph O'Grady DOM, FOR, aus, cel +1 strength, special
> Edward Neally DOM, FOR, aus specail
> Charice Fontaigne DOM, for, AUS, pot
> Vanessa DOM, FOR, aus, pre
> Ingrid Russo DOM, for
> Peter Blain dom, for, aus
> March Halcyon for
More Neally, cut Jesse as you've already filled the 8cap spot with
owain
Neally is 'TheShit(tm)' especially combined with my other suggestions.
Maybe clear out 2 spots (cut one owain) and go for 3 neally.
> Masters:
> 5 Blood Doll
> Hunting Ground
> Ventrue Investment
> 2 Coniver
> 2 Perfectionist
> Information Highway
> Anarch Troublemaker
> Slave Auction
> 2 Sudden Reversal
remove the investment, slave auction and the archetypes, they should
be replaced with, say, 4 parthenon's, 2 pentex subversion(!!) (other
suggestions where i cut out other cards :P)
Parthenon combines like a charm with Neally. Pentex combines like a
charm with intercept+bleed
> Actions:
> 8 Govern the Unaligned
> 2 Restoration
> 2 Rapid Healing
> 4 Force of Will
Cut 2 Rapid Healing, you shouldn't be in torpor anyway! :)
Add 2 misdirections in the master spot
> Action Modifiers:
> 3 Bonding
> 4 Conditioning
> 2 Freak Drive
> 2 Day Operations
> 1 Kiss of Ra
I'd cut the 3 bondings, add 2 conditionings, also remove the kiss of
ra and keep two spots free for combat defense.
> Combat:
> 4 Skin of Rock
> 4 Unfliching Persitence
> 2 Rolling with the Punches
> 4 Skin of Steel
I'd go for
5 Indomitability
5 Hidden Strength
6 Rolling with the Punches
4 Unflinching persistence
(2 spots from combat defense, 4 from reactions)
This allows you to torpor weenies.
> Reactions:
> 9 Deflections
> 3 Melange
> 3 Precognition
> 3 Spirit's Touch
> 3 Enhanced Senses
> 3 Telepathic Counter
> 5 Forced Awakenings
I'd remove 2 Deflections (you cycle quickly enough, and you can also
intercept) and 3 Telepathic Counters. 4 of these spots go to combat
defense, 1 goes to a WWEF
> Equipment:
> Sport Bike
> .44 Magnum
Cut both, add 2 more WWEF
>
> Ok, so what do you think of it? It seems to need more combat defense,
> something else to deal with a strong vote deck, and a more focused
> offense. But I'm not sure how to go about making it stronger. Any
> suggestions??
You have intercept to deal with voters. Combat defense is upped with
this, offense is improved greatly by parthenonned neally+tapping
masters
Happy? :)
> Thanks in advance for any comments...
>
> Cheers,
> Howard
Take care, hope my suggestions help
-Bram Vink
Alex Broadhead
> > Deck Name: In the Red
> > Created By: Alex Broadhead
> > Description: !Ventrue bleed via the kitchen sink method. DO + FO.
> > Storyline legal.
> >
> > NOTE: There's no good reason that this deck should be Sabbat only; a
> > better deck would either use a lot of DO/FO Camarilla Ventrue, or
> > would be dom weenies/DOM small-caps of all stripes.
>
>
>
> What is "DO/FO"? I don't recongnize that.
My own personal shorthand for the disciplines. DO = superior
dominate, FO = superior fortitude. Sorry to be unnecessarily cryptic.
> > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 9, Max: 28, Avg: 4.92)
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > 1 Christine Boscacci dom vic 2, Pander:2
>
>
> Why not someone else?
Why not her? She rounds out the weenie Sabbat dominate support module
quite nicely, along with Royce and Samson. I'm only likely to get one
of them in play, and their job once out is just to stand around and
bounce, unless there's an opening for a gratuitous bleed.
> > 3 Edward Neally aus DOM FOR pre 7, Ventrue antitribu:3
> > 1 Ingrid Russo DOM for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
> > 1 Joseph O`Grady aus cel DOM FOR 7, Ventrue Antitribu:3
> > 1 Marlene AUS dem DOM for tha 6, Ventrue Antitribu:2
> > 1 Peter Blaine aus dom for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
> > 1 Royce dom 1, Pander:2
> > 1 Samson dom 2, Ventrue Antitribu:2
> > 1 Truman dom FOR pot SAN 6, Blood Brother:2
>
>
> What is Truman doing in here?
He's Sabbat and he has dom/FOR. I've got room for 3 non-!Ventrue in
my crypt of 12 without breaking Storyline format. Other than Eddy,
I'm avoiding duplicates, so Truman looks good here, though he's no
Vanessa.
> > 1 Vanessa aus DOM FOR pre 6, Ventrue Antitribu:2
> >
> > Library: (90 cards)
> > -------------------
> > Master (15 cards)
> > 1 Anarch Troublemaker
> > 4 Blood Doll
> > 1 Corporate Hunting Ground
> > 1 Demonstration
> > 1 Festivo dello Estinto
>
> Do you find that you get blocked a lot with this one? I usally don't
> include it unless I have some stealth or big bruise combat angle. How
> do use it?
I find I rarely draw it at a useful moment, so it probably should
go...
As to being blocked, well, this whole deck is about dealing with being
blocked in creative ways. A big hunt can function as a nice fishing
trip. You're sure you're going to block my hunt? Good! Change of
Target. Out of Wakes now? Here's a bleed for 7!
> > 3 Fortitude
> > 1 Hungry Coyote, The
> > 1 Pentex(TM) Loves You!
> > 1 Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The
> > 1 Unnatural Disaster
>
>
> No Sudden Reversal? Hmmm..... Interesting. I was recently talking
> with someone that thought a deck should always have 2 Dreams of the
> Spinx, 2 Suddens, and 2 Direct Intervention. I'm not sure about that,
> but it sounds fairly strong. What do you think of that?
I just find that Suddens sit in my hand too much, and that I forget
about them when they would be useful. I've recently been playing more
with Dreams, but I've never really worked with DI. Your mileage may,
of course, vary.
The masters here are kind of toolboxy, and designed to reinforce the
unpredictability of the deck to opponents. The Troublemaker and
Unnatural are mostly around to mess with intercept permanents, but
have other uses, of course. The Rumor Mill is well worth it. The
Festivo, Pentex and Coyote are all useable Sabbat-only cards, though
the Coyote is the only really stellar one. The Corp HG and
Demonstration are !Ventrue toys; the Demonstration should definitely
stay, though the HG is kind of iffy. Anyway, there's plenty of space
to try out other options if you are so inclined.
> > Action (20 cards)
> > 1 Dominate Kine
>
>
> Good idea. I didn't include that for some reason. Thanks.
>
>
> > 1 Far Mastery
>
>
> I'm not sure if this is worth the card slot. How often do you get to
> use it?
I don't play that often, and so I can't say that I have at all. I do
regularly see worthwhile Allies to steal, and it wouldn't suck to use
it on a Raven.
> > 8 Govern the Unaligned
> > 1 Mind Rape
>
> Don't you get blocked? It seems like this would be hard to pull off.
It's not a main strategy. I just noticed that I had Fortitude masters
and Daring in already, so why not another flavor of bleed? If it
torpors someone's minion, bonus. If not, well, it's still a bleed
card.
> > 3 Rapid Healing
> > 3 Restoration
> > 3 Revelations
> >
> > Action Modifier (28 cards)
> > 6 Bonding
> > 4 Change of Target
>
>
> I forgot about these. Not a bad idea...
These are really, really useful. Revelations at inferior... Prey
Wakes and generates an intercept... Change of Target. And instead of
taking away the Wake or the intercept with Revs, I got them both.
Push-pull design.
> > 2 Daring the Dawn
> > 2 Foreshadowing Destruction
> > 4 Freak Drive
> > 2 Kiss of Ra, The
> > 6 Seduction
> > 2 Sleeping Mind, The
>
>
> This card is ok, but it always seems to sit in my hand or come up when
> I'm low on blood. When do you use it for the best effect?
It's quite useful when facing Princes or Animalism. Seconds don't
work, nor do Rats or Dogs. And at inferior it's pretty similar to
Seduction at superior, with the minor additional limitation that the
vampire must be tapped. It's not great, but two copies is not a heavy
investment. Against a Tzimisce interceptor or Prince deck, it's worth
it.
> > Reaction (12 cards)
> > 4 Deflection
> > 4 Redirection
> > 4 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
>
>
> Only 4 wakes with 8 bounce cards? How does that work?
See my comment above about the dominate weenies in the crypt. Also,
the first turn that vampires are in play, they are untapped, and
Change of Target can sometimes leave me with untapped vampires. All
in all, it's not that uncommon to have at least one untapped vampire
at the end of my turn. Really, it's just enough Wake to keep people
guessing.
> > Combat (14 cards)
> > 4 Hidden Strength
> > 2 Pulled Fangs
> > 4 Rolling with the Punches
> > 4 Skin of Steel
> >
> > Equipment (1 cards)
> > 1 Ivory Bow
> >
> > This deck was last saved at 3:54:00 PM on 6/8/04
> >
> > Like the description says, kitchen sink bleed. It's been working
> > better since the group 3 !Ventrue came out, as their specials are
> > pretty special, and their disciplines include a lot more FOR. Mostly
> > you should bide your time and look as unthreatening as you can with
> > DOM... Revelations (inferior) and Eddy should get a lot of use, and
> > it's not too hard to send a really massive bleed or set of bleeds
> > right down the middle when they can least handle it.
>
>
> Sounds pretty good. I'll try to incorporate of few of these
> strategies...
Good luck! Let us know if you come upon any great new findings...
Alex
Emmit Svenson
> > > 4 Change of Target
> >
> >
> > I forgot about these. Not a bad idea...
>
> These are really, really useful. Revelations at inferior... Prey
> Wakes and generates an intercept... Change of Target. And instead of
> taking away the Wake or the intercept with Revs, I got them both.
> Push-pull design.
When you get around to rebuilding the deck, Alex, try adding
Blackhorse Tanner plus Katherine Stoddard to the crypt and Dominion to
the masters. That way people have to pay for the privilege of
attempting to block. Also consider Crocodile's Tongue.
Alex Broadhead
> When you get around to rebuilding the deck, Alex, try adding
> Blackhorse Tanner plus Katherine Stoddard to the crypt and Dominion to
> the masters. That way people have to pay for the privilege of
> attempting to block. Also consider Crocodile's Tongue.
Doh! I'm reading you message, going, "What's he talking about, Tanner
and Stoddard are in there..." Looks like I posted the old version by
accident. The new ELDB is really messing with me, as all my decks
open with ' related omissions... I thought the card mix looked funny.
Looks like I took some of my own advice - e.g. Festivo is gone.
Here's what should have been posted:
Deck Name: In the Red (Talk to the Hand mix)
Created By: Alex Broadhead
Description: !Ventrue bleed via the kitchen sink method. DO + FO.
Storyline legal.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 15, Max: 28, Avg: 5.50)
----------------------------------------------
2 Blackhorse Tanner AUS DOM FOR 7, Ventrue antitribu:3
2 Edward Neally aus DOM FOR pre 7, Ventrue antitribu:3
1 Ingrid Russo DOM for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Joseph O`Grady aus cel DOM FOR 7, Ventrue Antitribu:3
2 Katherine Stoddard dom for 4, Ventrue antitribu:3
1 Lana Butcher dom for 3, Ventrue:3
1 Peter Blaine aus dom for 4, Ventrue Antitribu:2
1 Truman dom FOR pot SAN 6, Blood Brother:2
1 Vanessa aus DOM FOR pre 6, Ventrue Antitribu:2
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (16 cards)
1 Anarch Troublemaker
5 Blood Doll
2 Capitalist
1 Corporate Hunting Ground
1 Demonstration
1 Dominion
1 Hungry Coyote, The
1 Pentex(TM) Loves You!
1 Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The
1 Unnatural Disaster
1 WMRH Talk Radio
Action (17 cards)
1 Dominate Kine
1 Far Mastery
8 Govern the Unaligned
1 Mesmerize
1 Rapid Healing
5 Revelations
Action Modifier (28 cards)
6 Bonding
6 Change of Target
2 Daring the Dawn
2 Foreshadowing Destruction
2 Freak Drive
2 Kiss of Ra, The
6 Seduction
2 Sleeping Mind, The
Political Action (1 cards)
1 Cardinal Benediction
Reaction (14 cards)
4 Deflection
2 Enhanced Senses
4 Redirection
4 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
Combat (14 cards)
4 Hidden Strength
2 Pulled Fangs
4 Rolling with the Punches
4 Skin of Steel
This deck was last saved at 12:21:51 PM on 6/11/04
Sorry 'bout the confusion, folks,
Alex
Derek Rawlings
of it. There are several templates that you can draw on.
1) Precision Bleed: Using this model you sit back and wait, and wait and
wait until the exact moment when your prey's jugular is exposed and oust
them.
2) Bruise 'n Bleed: Lazverinus is a house... no one wants to block him.
Use him in conjunction with a lot of Dominatelings and some out of clan
Potence/Fortitude/Dominate backup.
3) Laz Multirush: I just took my version of this deck apart, and it is
fierce... Use low cap !Ventrue for bleed defense while Laz makes
puny-girly vampires explode.
4) Anarchs: A vastly unexplored vista, but there are some good mid-cap
!Ventrue that would make ideal anarchs, with several inferior level
disciplines and high enough cap to become Barons.
5) Vote: !Ventrue can pass votes with ease with their several ways to
negate other's votes (Quentin/Demonstration/TVC), but their problem lies
with pushing the vote through... this is where our buddy Obtenebration
comes in... Combine !Ventrue with Lasombra and you've got a potent vote
deck, with some good Dominate ousting power.
> Crypt:
> Jesse Menks DOM, FOR, AUS, ani Archbishop, special
> 2 Owain Evans DOM, FOR, AUS, pre, cel Hunting Ground
> 2 Black Horse Tanner DOM, FOR, AUS Black Hand, special
> Joseph O'Grady DOM, FOR, aus, cel +1 strength, special
> Edward Neally DOM, FOR, aus specail
> Charice Fontaigne DOM, for, AUS, pot
> Vanessa DOM, FOR, aus, pre
> Ingrid Russo DOM, for
> Peter Blain dom, for, aus
> March Halcyon for
The new vampires have given the !Ventrue such a boost in playability -
it's difficult to fathom what playing them was like before anymore. Owain
is key, and Blackhorse being 7 cap with an awesome special and all In Clan
at Superior is amazing. I might double up Ingrid, just to soften the
average pool cost of your vampires, and March can be a real liability on
the table. I'd sub her out for a 3 cap with two useful disciplines.
> Masters:
> 5 Blood Doll
> Hunting Ground
> Ventrue Investment
> 2 Coniver
> 2 Perfectionist
As has been mentioned before... too many Archetypes... pick the best ones
and ignore the rest.
> Information Highway
> Anarch Troublemaker
> Slave Auction
> 2 Sudden Reversal
Demonstration... as already said. Also, playgroup dependant an Archon
Investigation would be nice. Also, I find that Prophecies of Gehenna, the
promo-card is masterful when used creatively. Legendary Vampire may also
fit, for that bleed boost. Oh... and possibly a Secure Haven... rush
decks are just a bother.
> Actions:
> 8 Govern the Unaligned
> 2 Restoration
> 2 Rapid Healing
> 4 Force of Will
Force of Will is not going to see a lot of play in your deck... its use is
very specific, and the situation rarely comes up... If you intend to do a
lot of non-bleed actions than these make sense, but I really don't see
them in the deck.
Where are your revelations? Without those you're bleeding blind, and just
asking to be bounced. !Ventrue's big advantage over their vote heavy
cousins is their ability to know what your prey is capable of. Also
consider Pulse of the Canaille.
> Action Modifiers:
> 3 Bonding
> 4 Conditioning
> 2 Freak Drive
Boost this if you can... Oh, and Foreshadowing Destruction will serve you
as well as Conditioning, since in most cases you'll be doing your big
damage during the mid/end-game.
> 2 Day Operations
> Kiss of Ra
Surprising, but expensive... there's a lot of fortitude going around these
days too, in different playgroups... it would be in my 'maybe' pile when
making this deck.
> Combat:
> 4 Skin of Rock
> 4 Unfliching Persitence
> 2 Rolling with the Punches
> 4 Skin of Steel
Effective.
> Reactions:
> 9 Deflections
> 3 Melange
> 3 Precognition
> 3 Spirit's Touch
> 3 Enhanced Senses
> 3 Telepathic Counter
> 5 Forced Awakenings
Wow... that's an awful lot of intercept... what do you intend to do once
you've intercepted someone though? It's not enough to stop a stealth
deck, but it's too much to have casual intercept. Eagle's Sight is a
really good option, because it gives you some ability to control the
table, but I'd ditch the Spirit's Touches and raise the Telepathic Counter
count. I might also, considering the highish capacity of your crypt
suggest some Obediences.
> Equipment:
> Sport Bike
> .44 Magnum
Permacept is nice, and guns are good deterents in a lot of cases, though
there are not enough guns to make it a concerted defense... I'd also
include copies of the bleed retainers.
> Ok, so what do you think of it? It seems to need more combat defense,
> something else to deal with a strong vote deck, and a more focused
> offense. But I'm not sure how to go about making it stronger. Any
> suggestions??
More bleed, more ways of knowing when it's best to bleed. Your bloat
module is sufficient, but the deck lacks a big punch... I might even
consider Command the Beast for this deck, for that little extra something.
> Thanks in advance for any comments...
No problem, hope this helped.
Derek Rawlings
!Ventrue Newsletter Writer guy... who will write again!
DJ.Mik
> having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
Well, one way to go would be !ventrue with FOR & dom/DOM
Bleed with Govern + Conditioning
if blocked play Dawn Operation + Skin of Night.
Simple deck, but easily made with Ventrue as well, so there is nothing
!Ventrue-ish about such a deck. For more power in the suggested deck,
you could include Alejandro Aguirre to torporize the blocking vampires
(1 unpreventable damage before range).
Deck-list would be something like (Figure out vamps for yourself):
6 Blood Dolls
4 Fortitude (for Alejandro Aguirre)
1 Hunting Ground (optional)
10 Govern the Unaligned
10 Conditioning
10 Dawn Operation
10 Skin of Night
10 Deflections
Plain & simple, a bit boring, but effective and annoying !
HD
> having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
>
Ok, here is a new and revised version of the deck with changes
according to many of the different suggestions you guys made...
Crypt:
Jesse Menks DOM, FOR, AUS, ani 8 Archbishop, special
Owain Evans DOM, FOR, AUS, pre, cel 8 Hunting Ground
Black Horse Tanner DOM, FOR, AUS 7 Black Hand, special
Joseph O'Grady DOM, FOR, aus, cel 7 +1 strength, special
2 Edward Neally DOM, FOR, aus 7 really cool special
Charice Fontaigne DOM, for, AUS, pot 6
Vanessa DOM, FOR, aus, pre 6
Ingrid Russo DOM, for 4
Katherine Stoddard dom, for 4 Special
Peter Blain dom, for, aus 4
March Halcyon for 1
Masters:
4 Blood Doll
2 Minion Tap
2 Demonstration
2 Perfectionist
2 Pentex Subversion
2 Sudden Reversal
Hunting Ground
Information Highway
Dreams of the Spinx
Actions:
6 Govern the Unaligned
6 Scouting Mission
4 Revelations
4 Restoration
Dominate Kine
Grave Robbing
Action Modifiers:
4 Conditioning
3 Change of Target
8 Freak Drive
Combat:
4 Soak
4 Unfliching Persitence
4 Skin of Steel
4 Pulled Fangs
Reactions:
7 Deflections
3 Eagles Sight
2 Precognition
2 Spirit's Touch
2 Telepathic Misdirection
2 Forced Awakenings
4 Wake with Evening's Freshness
Ok, so what do you think of it now? Any other suggestions??
I'm tempted to add in some Weighted Walking Sticks and My Enemy's
Enemy. What do you think of that? What would I take out??
Hollowboy
> according to many of the different suggestions you guys made...
>
>
> Crypt:
>
here.
> Masters:
> 4 Blood Doll
> 2 Minion Tap
> 2 Demonstration
> 2 Perfectionist
> 2 Pentex Subversion
> 2 Sudden Reversal
> Hunting Ground
> Information Highway
> Dreams of the Spinx
I dunno if you need the Minion Taps, particularly as the big minions
who you will target with MT will be the guys spending the blood on
super Govern - so maybe go all Blood Doll? You seem to have enough
defense that versatility could be better than speed. Maybe this is
better decided after you have played the deck a bit.
A free alternative to 2 Pentex is 1 Golconda, 1 Society of Leopold.
You can remove pool / a vamp with these cards, without anyone
interfering... whereas anyone can interfere with Pentex - for example,
your predator might use a weenie to remove it from your prey's best
blocker, to prevent you from getting an oust, or in exchange for vote
damage on you, or whatever. Finally, SoL can combine nicely with
Pulled Fangs.
> Action Modifiers:
> 4 Conditioning
> 3 Change of Target
> 8 Freak Drive
>
I might go for seduction rather that CoT. Particularly good for dirty
actions like your Graverobbing.
The 8 Freak Drives seem a bit high based on your actions, so I'm
guessing they are (mainly) in there for the turn where you decide to
go all-out bleeding: Use Edward's special, if you like what you see,
Freak drive and bleed.
Note that Aura Reading can serve the same function, and it's one of my
fave cards, cos it's so good, flexible and cyclable. A nice factor is,
once you play one, your predator will think twice before blocking your
casual actions (hunts etc), in case it telegraphs any weaknesses to
*their* predator... but I don't know what to suggest dumping to make
space for a couple of them.
> Combat:
> 4 Soak
> 4 Unfliching Persitence
> 4 Skin of Steel
> 4 Pulled Fangs
>
Kewl :-)
> Ok, so what do you think of it now? Any other suggestions??
>
> I'm tempted to add in some Weighted Walking Sticks and My Enemy's
> Enemy. What do you think of that? What would I take out??
>
I say yay for the WWS. 3 Lucky Blows in one card, *and* it's replaced
straight away. That rocks. Get a stick onto a little guy (like Juan
Cali or Ingrid Russo), and they are more likely to make you a fat
profit with the perfectionist / hunt / blood doll thing.
I'd say no to the MEE, unless you find blood management is a big
problem. The inflexibility of the bounce can be bothersome - when you
recieve a second-hand bleed, a !Malk bleeds you backwards to force you
to wall up, or when your cross table buddy is too weak foe you to MEE
bleeds her way.
In fact, I think the major tweaking will be after you play, and see
how the blood management goes. My guess is with Perfectionist making a
lot of your hunts effectively be for 2, and the other minor blood
gain, you might end up either angling toward greater profit from blood
gain, or cutting out some of the blood gain, like dropping the Hunting
Ground, or ditching 2 of the Restorations.
If you did the latter, those slots could be good for the walking
sticks.
HD
> >
> > Ok, here is a new and revised version of the deck with changes
> > according to many of the different suggestions you guys made...
> >
> >
> > Crypt:
> >
> Solid. I don't go dom crazy like this, so I can't be super-specific
> here.
I may switch out March Halcyon for Lana Butcher (3 cap dom, for).
Seems like a good idea. Other than that, I'm not sure what to change.
> > Masters:
> > 4 Blood Doll
> > 2 Minion Tap
> > 2 Demonstration
> > 2 Perfectionist
> > 2 Pentex Subversion
> > 2 Sudden Reversal
> > Hunting Ground
> > Information Highway
> > Dreams of the Spinx
>
> I dunno if you need the Minion Taps, particularly as the big minions
> who you will target with MT will be the guys spending the blood on
> super Govern - so maybe go all Blood Doll? You seem to have enough
> defense that versatility could be better than speed. Maybe this is
> better decided after you have played the deck a bit.
You may be right about skipping the Minion Taps. I thought that they
might be useful in combination with Restorations, but I won't know if
I'm running low on blood until I play the deck. I'll try it out this
weekend...
> A free alternative to 2 Pentex is 1 Golconda, 1 Society of Leopold.
> You can remove pool / a vamp with these cards, without anyone
> interfering... whereas anyone can interfere with Pentex - for example,
> your predator might use a weenie to remove it from your prey's best
> blocker, to prevent you from getting an oust, or in exchange for vote
> damage on you, or whatever. Finally, SoL can combine nicely with
> Pulled Fangs.
Interesting angle... I'll think about those options. Maybe one of
each? (Pentex, Golconda, Society of Leopold) Talk about trying to
cover all the bases. ;o)
>
> > Action Modifiers:
> > 4 Conditioning
> > 3 Change of Target
> > 8 Freak Drive
> >
> I might go for seduction rather that CoT. Particularly good for dirty
> actions like your Graverobbing.
I would love to squeeze some seductions in there, but I think that I
am already a card or two over the limit. What would I take out?
> The 8 Freak Drives seem a bit high based on your actions, so I'm
> guessing they are (mainly) in there for the turn where you decide to
> go all-out bleeding: Use Edward's special, if you like what you see,
> Freak drive and bleed.
The general idea was using Edward's special or Revelations or
GTU/Scouting Mission (at superior) or Restoration... then Freak Drive
and bleed (if the timing seems right). Maybe it's too many Freak
Drives... I don't know.
>
> Note that Aura Reading can serve the same function, and it's one of my
> fave cards, cos it's so good, flexible and cyclable. A nice factor is,
> once you play one, your predator will think twice before blocking your
> casual actions (hunts etc), in case it telegraphs any weaknesses to
> *their* predator... but I don't know what to suggest dumping to make
> space for a couple of them.
Aura Readings is a good card, but neither of us know what to take out
in order to make them fit in the deck. Maybe someone else will have
some suggestions along those lines.
>
> > Combat:
> > 4 Soak
> > 4 Unfliching Persitence
> > 4 Skin of Steel
> > 4 Pulled Fangs
> >
> Kewl :-)
Glad you like it! :o)
>
> > Ok, so what do you think of it now? Any other suggestions??
> >
> > I'm tempted to add in some Weighted Walking Sticks and My Enemy's
> > Enemy. What do you think of that? What would I take out??
> >
> I say yay for the WWS. 3 Lucky Blows in one card, *and* it's replaced
> straight away. That rocks. Get a stick onto a little guy (like Juan
> Cali or Ingrid Russo), and they are more likely to make you a fat
> profit with the perfectionist / hunt / blood doll thing.
Sounds good. Weighted Walking Sticks are pretty damn cool. :o)
>
> I'd say no to the MEE, unless you find blood management is a big
> problem. The inflexibility of the bounce can be bothersome - when you
> recieve a second-hand bleed, a !Malk bleeds you backwards to force you
> to wall up, or when your cross table buddy is too weak foe you to MEE
> bleeds her way.
Hmmmm.... Ok, maybe I'll skip them. A lot of people seem to
disagree with My Enemy's Enemy in general. When is this a good card
to play?
>
> In fact, I think the major tweaking will be after you play, and see
> how the blood management goes. My guess is with Perfectionist making a
> lot of your hunts effectively be for 2, and the other minor blood
> gain, you might end up either angling toward greater profit from blood
> gain, or cutting out some of the blood gain, like dropping the Hunting
> Ground, or ditching 2 of the Restorations.
>
> If you did the latter, those slots could be good for the walking
> sticks.
Thanks for all the suggestions! And your comments in an earlier part
of this thread were interesting too (was that you?). Not quite as
specific to this deck, but very useful for understanding other
strategies for the !Ventrue.
Cheers,
Howard
HD
> The first step in any !Ventrue deck is what precisely you want to get out
> of it. There are several templates that you can draw on.
>
> 1) Precision Bleed: Using this model you sit back and wait, and wait and
> wait until the exact moment when your prey's jugular is exposed and oust
> them.
>
> 2) Bruise 'n Bleed: Lazverinus is a house... no one wants to block him.
> Use him in conjunction with a lot of Dominatelings and some out of clan
> Potence/Fortitude/Dominate backup.
>
> 3) Laz Multirush: I just took my version of this deck apart, and it is
> fierce... Use low cap !Ventrue for bleed defense while Laz makes
> puny-girly vampires explode.
>
> 4) Anarchs: A vastly unexplored vista, but there are some good mid-cap
> !Ventrue that would make ideal anarchs, with several inferior level
> disciplines and high enough cap to become Barons.
>
> 5) Vote: !Ventrue can pass votes with ease with their several ways to
> negate other's votes (Quentin/Demonstration/TVC), but their problem lies
> with pushing the vote through... this is where our buddy Obtenebration
> comes in... Combine !Ventrue with Lasombra and you've got a potent vote
> deck, with some good Dominate ousting power.
Good information. Thanks!
> > Crypt:
> > Jesse Menks DOM, FOR, AUS, ani Archbishop, special
> > 2 Owain Evans DOM, FOR, AUS, pre, cel Hunting Ground
> > 2 Black Horse Tanner DOM, FOR, AUS Black Hand, special
> > Joseph O'Grady DOM, FOR, aus, cel +1 strength, special
> > Edward Neally DOM, FOR, aus specail
> > Charice Fontaigne DOM, for, AUS, pot
> > Vanessa DOM, FOR, aus, pre
> > Ingrid Russo DOM, for
> > Peter Blain dom, for, aus
> > March Halcyon for
>
> The new vampires have given the !Ventrue such a boost in playability -
> it's difficult to fathom what playing them was like before anymore. Owain
> is key, and Blackhorse being 7 cap with an awesome special and all In Clan
> at Superior is amazing. I might double up Ingrid, just to soften the
> average pool cost of your vampires, and March can be a real liability on
> the table. I'd sub her out for a 3 cap with two useful disciplines.
Why would March Halcyon ever be a liability?
> > Masters:
> > 5 Blood Doll
> > Hunting Ground
> > Ventrue Investment
> > 2 Coniver
> > 2 Perfectionist
>
> As has been mentioned before... too many Archetypes... pick the best ones
> and ignore the rest.
Did that. :o)
>
> > Information Highway
> > Anarch Troublemaker
> > Slave Auction
> > 2 Sudden Reversal
>
> Demonstration... as already said. Also, playgroup dependant an Archon
> Investigation would be nice. Also, I find that Prophecies of Gehenna, the
> promo-card is masterful when used creatively. Legendary Vampire may also
> fit, for that bleed boost. Oh... and possibly a Secure Haven... rush
> decks are just a bother.
Hmmm... you mention some master cards I hadn't consdered. They might
fit in the deck rather nicely. I'll think about it...
>
> > Actions:
> > 8 Govern the Unaligned
> > 2 Restoration
> > 2 Rapid Healing
> > 4 Force of Will
>
> Force of Will is not going to see a lot of play in your deck... its use is
> very specific, and the situation rarely comes up... If you intend to do a
> lot of non-bleed actions than these make sense, but I really don't see
> them in the deck.
Yeah, I dumped them. No need to go to torpor if I can get through
without that one-way ticket to trouble.
>
> Where are your revelations? Without those you're bleeding blind, and just
> asking to be bounced. !Ventrue's big advantage over their vote heavy
> cousins is their ability to know what your prey is capable of. Also
> consider Pulse of the Canaille.
I put in a few Revelations. How many do you think would be good?
>
> > Action Modifiers:
> > 3 Bonding
> > 4 Conditioning
> > 2 Freak Drive
>
> Boost this if you can... Oh, and Foreshadowing Destruction will serve you
> as well as Conditioning, since in most cases you'll be doing your big
> damage during the mid/end-game.
I bumped it up to 8 Freak Drives. Is that too many or not enough??
>
> > 2 Day Operations
> > Kiss of Ra
>
> Surprising, but expensive... there's a lot of fortitude going around these
> days too, in different playgroups... it would be in my 'maybe' pile when
> making this deck.
I took it out. Not enough room for "maybe" cards.
>
> > Combat:
> > 4 Skin of Rock
> > 4 Unfliching Persitence
> > 2 Rolling with the Punches
> > 4 Skin of Steel
>
> Effective.
>
> > Reactions:
> > 9 Deflections
> > 3 Melange
> > 3 Precognition
> > 3 Spirit's Touch
> > 3 Enhanced Senses
> > 3 Telepathic Counter
> > 5 Forced Awakenings
>
> Wow... that's an awful lot of intercept... what do you intend to do once
> you've intercepted someone though? It's not enough to stop a stealth
> deck, but it's too much to have casual intercept. Eagle's Sight is a
> really good option, because it gives you some ability to control the
> table, but I'd ditch the Spirit's Touches and raise the Telepathic Counter
> count. I might also, considering the highish capacity of your crypt
> suggest some Obediences.
I trimmed back the intercept, switched to Eagles Sight, and dumped the
Melange cards. What do you think of the new light intercept module?
(in the decklist lower in the thread)
>
> > Equipment:
> > Sport Bike
> > .44 Magnum
>
> Permacept is nice, and guns are good deterents in a lot of cases, though
> there are not enough guns to make it a concerted defense... I'd also
> include copies of the bleed retainers.
I just dumped the equipment. Not enough room...
>
> > Ok, so what do you think of it? It seems to need more combat defense,
> > something else to deal with a strong vote deck, and a more focused
> > offense. But I'm not sure how to go about making it stronger. Any
> > suggestions??
>
> More bleed, more ways of knowing when it's best to bleed. Your bloat
> module is sufficient, but the deck lacks a big punch... I might even
> consider Command the Beast for this deck, for that little extra something.
>
> > Thanks in advance for any comments...
>
> No problem, hope this helped.
>
> Derek Rawlings
> !Ventrue Newsletter Writer guy... who will write again!
It was quite helpful. Thanks again! :o)
Cheers,
Howard
Hollowboy
> > > 4 Conditioning
> > > 3 Change of Target
> > > 8 Freak Drive
> > >
> > I might go for seduction rather that CoT. Particularly good for dirty
> > actions like your Graverobbing.
>
>
> I would love to squeeze some seductions in there, but I think that I
> am already a card or two over the limit. What would I take out?
>
>
> The general idea was using Edward's special or Revelations or
> GTU/Scouting Mission (at superior) or Restoration... then Freak Drive
> and bleed (if the timing seems right). Maybe it's too many Freak
> Drives... I don't know.
>
Cool. I doubt it's too many - they cycle easy.
> Aura Readings is a good card, but neither of us know what to take out
> in order to make them fit in the deck. Maybe someone else will have
> some suggestions along those lines.
>
The neat thing would be to intercept your prey, play the AR, see no
wakes and adopt a poker face whilst gloating at their impending demise
:-)
But maybe you would be better saving them up for a more fighty deck.
> Hmmmm.... Ok, maybe I'll skip them. A lot of people seem to
> disagree with My Enemy's Enemy in general. When is this a good card
> to play?
>
Not sure. I have a couple in a Tremere / !Tremere deck which is a
weenie / ally thing, with more damage-dealing strikes than thefts.
Even in such a blood frugal deck, I'm still not sure it's better than
Telepathic Misdirection. The best use is probably in a weenie Auspex
deck, built to survive / counter a high S&B / PTO / other sleaze type
environment. Blood costs really matter when *all* your minions start
as 1-3 caps with no combat abilities.
> Thanks for all the suggestions! And your comments in an earlier part
> of this thread were interesting too (was that you?). Not quite as
> specific to this deck, but very useful for understanding other
> strategies for the !Ventrue.
>
> Cheers,
> Howard
That was me. Looking back at those suggestions, and comparing them to
your deck, It looks like I'm overly fond of intercept / combat / slow
decks.
kevin scribner
there's two ways to make !ventrue work... and vote ain't one of
'em...
if you think krc'ing your prey is going to get you table wins, you're
a n00b... your guys are too big to get out at any kind of pace akin
to the stuff you're going to face at tournament tables... what you
*will* do is to soften up your prey so that after your predator ousts
you, he'll walk past his grand prey - become - prey pretty easily...
thanks for choosing v:tes, please come again...
thw two ways they can win are as such:
reference: ben swainbank's "the lazverinus show..."
and...
go the f**k anarch, for god's sake...!!! owain evans, joseph o'grady,
and dominique / dominique [advanced] are almost worthy of a different
card background, they're so anarch-oriented... back them up with
whomsoever you like: cel/for monkeys; other !ventrue [ingrid russo,
katherine stoddard, edward neally, blackhorse tanner, billy, marlene,
vincent day, dylan, samson -- whomsoever]... and don't screw the
pooch at this point and try to go baron... ixnay on the ote-vay...!!!
it's that simple... forget the faux-strong lean toward obtenebration
-- it doesn't work... go with what they've *really* got -- dominate,
fortitude, and a bunch of wacky stuff thrown in for good measure...
and when you say "wacky" you just said anarchs...
one other interesting side note: find another clan that hasn't
received an ass vampire lately... you can't... all the !ventrue for
the last few sets have been STRONG... coincidence...? i think not...
they bit ass prior to cam edition, unless you were doing lazverinus
based decks... suddenly, they've got all the best vampires in the
game...
and you're right in at ground level...
enjoy...!!!
peace --
-- khs
"eritis sicut dii, scientes bonum et malum..."
kevin scribner
look for "laz man standing," not "the lazverinus show..."
so easy to confuse swainbank's designs for peal's...!
peace --
-- khs
"i'm trying to think, but nothing happens...!"
-- curly howard, *the three stooges*
Derek Rawlings
HD wrote:
She wouldn't... I just mixed her up with that pot for caitiff who passes to whoever has the most
pool... Just ignore me :)
> > Where are your revelations? Without those you're bleeding blind, and just
> > asking to be bounced. !Ventrue's big advantage over their vote heavy
> > cousins is their ability to know what your prey is capable of. Also
> > consider Pulse of the Canaille.
> I put in a few Revelations. How many do you think would be good?
4 or 5 is a good number, plus I've also been playing around with that AUS FOR Lessons in Steel
card... it's usable by a vampire going to torpor, and at advanced is just one more way to gather
intelligence and control your prey's hand. Right now my thoughts on it are inconclusive.>
> > > Action Modifiers:
> > > 3 Bonding
> > > 4 Conditioning
> > > 2 Freak Drive
> >
> > Boost this if you can... Oh, and Foreshadowing Destruction will serve you
> > as well as Conditioning, since in most cases you'll be doing your big
> > damage during the mid/end-game.
> I bumped it up to 8 Freak Drives. Is that too many or not enough??
It depends on how many actions you intend to take... 4 to 8 seems a good number though, for the
deck you've got going.
> > > 2 Day Operations
> > > Kiss of Ra
> > Surprising, but expensive... there's a lot of fortitude going around these
> > days too, in different playgroups... it would be in my 'maybe' pile when
> > making this deck.
> I took it out. Not enough room for "maybe" cards.
Agreed... even though you'd like to pack a surprise or two.
> I trimmed back the intercept, switched to Eagles Sight, and dumped the
> Melange cards. What do you think of the new light intercept module?
> (in the decklist lower in the thread)
Much more preferable... Eagle's Sight offers table control, in addition to being intercept when
neccessary.
> It was quite helpful. Thanks again! :o)
No problem... when people are getting excited about the !Ventrue clan, I can't help but chime
in... these guys are finally getting some deserved credit... now if only they could get a
worthwhile clan specific card aside from Demonstration.
Derek
HD
> I would like to put together a decent deck for the !Ventrue, but I am
> having a little trouble with it. Any suggestions?
>
Well, it turned out that the revised version of this deck faired
extremely well at our local game. The guys I was playing with were so
impressed that they said it was strong enough to play at a
tournament... I almost swept the table. :o)
So, thanks for all the help with the deck design. And if any of you
have other ideas, thoughts, or suggestion, please post them here...
Cheers,
Howard
PS If any of you want more information about how the deck played,
just ask. I'm a bit tired right now (2:30 am), so I'm going to bed.
But I'll try to answer any question later on when I'm a little more
awake.
RavATwoFaces
This is the winning deck of the Italian Championship 2004:
Deck name: Caterpillar
Player: Michele
Player Nick: Orso (translation: Bear)
posted: http://www.italybynight.org/bbforum/viewtopic.php?t=1470
Crypt:
Quentin x 1
Owain Evans, the wanderer x 2
Blackhorse Tanner x 2
Joseph O'Grady x 1
Charice Fontaigne x 2
Marlene, the infernalist x 1
Ingrid Russo x 3
Master (13):
Blood doll x 6
Corporate hunting ground x 1
Capitalist x 2
Humanitas x 1
Giant blood x 1
Demonstration x 1
Prophecies of Gehenna x 1
Action (30):
Force of will x 6
Pulse of the canaille x 4
Rapid healing x 6
Revelation x 6
Govern the unaligned x 5
Restoration x 3
Action modifier (21):
Conditioning x 3
Daring the dawn x 3
Day operation x 1
Dawn operation x 1
Freak drive x 5
Kiss of ra x 2
Bonding x 6
Reaction (16):
Deflection x 7
Redirection x 3
Wake with evening's freshness x 6
Combat (7):
Skin of steel x 7
Equipment (3):
Catacombs x 2
Monocle of clarity x 1
Normally Orso is a Tzimisce-only player, but this time he has created
a !ventrue deck. He has said: Everyone can have ideas on how to make
this deck better, but I've made it with the cards I possess. He has
won 2 preliminary rounds on 3 and the final.
RavATwoFaces
The Lasombra
(RavATwoFaces) wrote:
>This is the winning deck of the Italian Championship 2004:
Congratulations to Michele the Orso!
>Deck name: Caterpillar
>Player: Michele
>Player Nick: Orso (translation: Bear)
Italian Championship 2004
# of players ??
Date of event ??
Location of event ??
Draft, Standard Constructed, Special Rules ??
The deck cannot enter the Tournament Winning Deck Archive without this
information.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
RavATwoFaces
Event: Campionato Italiano 2004 - "Chalice of Kinship" (Italian Championship 2004)
# of players: 26
Date of event: 30 may 2004
Location of event: Rome - Centro Culturale La Maggiolina, via Bencivenga 1
Type: Standard Constructed
RavA