[NEWBIE] Alright, I'm gonna play this game if it kills me, and it has...repeatedly...
Thom Jeffries
I'm new to the group. New to Nethack. New to rogue-likes.
That's not to say I'm not worth the time of day, because
I want to learn. You see, through college I watched a
couple guys around the dorm playing rogue-likes in the
computer labs, asked some innocent questions about them,
got some in-depth answers that I could barely fathom yet
sounded oh-so-intriguing, and went and got myself a copy
of one.
Then I played it, and was completely lost. I got the whole
ascii map thing down, figured out how to id the on-screen
symbols, figured out to look up commands and all that, but
I just didn't see the complexity that those enlightening
individuals (and most of you in other postings) described
to me. And I died. Like crazy. And getting fed up with such
a waste of time (these were the good old days of college,
remember, when there was much booze to be drunk, many women
to ogle, and endless other free downloadable stuff to peruse).
Of course, now I'm older and wiser and can stomach the games
where the point is to die repeatedly to unforeseen and unknown
dangers, only to start over from the beginning bare naked again.
Hence, I find myself playing a lot of the latest Contra incarnation
and have found myself seriously working on figuring out this darn
game that you all like so much. Contra I can handle, it's wash,
rinse, repeat. NH, featuring the RNG that it does, is still con-
founding the crap out of me on every attempt.
So basically this is an intro post. I'm likely to be around,
asking stupid questions that you've heard thousands of times
before, trying to ascend within my lifetime, preferably without
tons and tons of spoilers. Fer instance, I just found out why
the eyes are dangerous (which is a beginner tidbit I found some-
where after checking the FAQ). Seems the first four I fought
didn't really care to freeze me, but once I had a Ring of Invis
and some good dwarven mithril armor (AC -1, woohoo! personal best
so far), the eye nailed me to the floor just in time for the
Gnome lord to come and do his duty.
First order of business is this:
A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
class are you thinking about right now?
B) Am I supposed to be able to recognize the garbled acronyms
that permeate the YAAP and YASD posts at this point in my career?
C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
mostly related to playing the game and not source diving? I code
for a living, I don't want to parse C to have more fun with non-
work pursuits...
Thanks you for you time and attention.
Hopefully I'll be seeing you all around, provided you don't plonk me
for being an idiot right off the bat. :P~
--
Thom Jeffries
Meagen AKA SailorM
news:615991f1.03030...@posting.google.com...
> Hello folks.
>
> I'm new to the group. New to Nethack. New to rogue-likes.
>
Hello Thom, welcome to r.g.r.n! You are a lawful newbie.
I'll try to help as much as I can, but in the meantime, check out
Ali's Absolute Beginner's Guide for Nethack, which is extremely
useful without being spoily.
> First order of business is this:
> A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> class are you thinking about right now?
Most people find Valkire to be the easiest. Two out of my three
ascentions were Valkire, so I'm with that group. But playing Wizards
or even Healers teaches you a few very valuable lessons on survival.
> B) Am I supposed to be able to recognize the garbled acronyms
> that permeate the YAAP and YASD posts at this point in my career?
No, the confusion is understandable and easily remedied. We have
spoilers and FAQ's for everything, including acronyms.
> C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
> mostly related to playing the game and not source diving? I code
> for a living, I don't want to parse C to have more fun with non-
> work pursuits...
Most of the work in source diving has already been done for you
and is available in fun 'n easy "spolier" format. Most of the credit for my
3 wins goes to spoilers. Be warned that once you read enough, you can
never boast an "unspoiled" ascention.
These spoilers can be found at many sites. My personal favourite is:
http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/
> Thanks you for you time and attention.
> Hopefully I'll be seeing you all around, provided you don't plonk me
> for being an idiot right off the bat. :P~
We don't plonk anyone unless they ask for warez or other hackish
stuff while ignoring the "rec.games.roguelike" part.
Meagen
Sippan
> Hello folks.
>
> [lots of text ruthlessly snipped out]
>
> First order of business is this:
> A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> class are you thinking about right now?
I am trying to ascend for the first time. =)
Barbarian seems to be the best class since they are poison resistant
and stuff.
> B) Am I supposed to be able to recognize the garbled acronyms
> that permeate the YAAP and YASD posts at this point in my career?
There is a list of all of them somewhere. I would give you a link, but
for some reason that bookmark doesn't work for me right now.
> C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
> mostly related to playing the game and not source diving? I code
> for a living, I don't want to parse C to have more fun with non-
> work pursuits...
Not that my level of understanding at all comes near those of the
regulars here, but all my understanding comes from playing the game
and reading this newsgroup =)
Bwooce
> I'm new to the group. New to Nethack. New to rogue-likes.
Hi Thom. Welcome.
> First order of business is this:
> A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> class are you thinking about right now?
Definitely Valkyrie. They, along with Barbarians, are the easiest hack
'n slash class. You don't have to worry much about spells or anything,
so you can just get used to the game without dying as much as you would
with some other class.
> B) Am I supposed to be able to recognize the garbled acronyms
> that permeate the YAAP and YASD posts at this point in my career?
Not yet. :) Soon, though, you'll begin to understand.
> C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
> mostly related to playing the game and not source diving? I code
> for a living, I don't want to parse C to have more fun with non-
> work pursuits...
Most folks here aren't source-divers. In fact, the only time I
source-dive is to verify specific behavior, like how magic resistance is
calculated or how luck affects praying, or to check on monster
statistics. Obviously, that's non-essential information and is trumped
by the information gathered while actually playing the game.
--
Bruce Labbate | And maybe I'm too young,
shiftless layabout | To keep good love from going wrong.
| But tonight you're on my mind, so
| (You'll never know) - Jeff Buckley
P Harris
>
> I'm new to the group. New to Nethack. New to rogue-likes.
Hi.
> So basically this is an intro post. I'm likely to be around,
> asking stupid questions that you've heard thousands of times
Remember the power of Googling the archives :-)
Also, if you want to be moderately spoiled, there are several very
helpful 'nethack for beginners' -type guides at various places on the
web, including one that's regularly posted to this newsgroup (see
above re: googling)
> First order of business is this:
> A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> class are you thinking about right now?
If you are a "whack-and-slash, think later if at all, and never run
away" personality type, then a Valkyrie or possibly Barbarian is the
traditional choice for easiest. If OTOH you are of a more cautious
frame of mind, and prefer to be devious and wise (until you get far
enough into the game when you can safely engage in massive displays of
wholesale pyrotechnics <g>), then a Wizard might be more to your
taste.
All classes have *some* advantages (ok, well, Cavemen don't have
*many* advantages), it just depends on what you're good or bad at. My
husband finds healers easy as dirt, I can't keep 'em alive past explvl
6 <shrug>
> B) Am I supposed to be able to recognize the garbled acronyms
> that permeate the YAAP and YASD posts at this point in my career?
If you read the faq, you can. Also, a lot of it is immediately
understandable if you know the convention of abbreviating objects as
<nethack symbol for object><acronym of object's name>, so that for
instance a wand of wishing might be abbreviated /oW or /WoW, or a
potion of gain level as !oGL
> C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
> mostly related to playing the game and not source diving? I code
> for a living, I don't want to parse C to have more fun with non-
> work pursuits...
Heh - my husband does this stuff for a living too, and only recently
has he started to find playing the game as entertaining as reading the
source code :-P
Good luck,
Pat
Dayv!
>
> I'm new to the group. New to Nethack. New to rogue-likes.
But luckily, you don't appear to be new to clarity and posting
etiquette. This makes you the good kind of newbie. Pull up a chair and
stay a spell...
> So basically this is an intro post. I'm likely to be around,
> asking stupid questions that you've heard thousands of times
> before, trying to ascend within my lifetime, preferably without
> tons and tons of spoilers.
If you don't want to be too spoiled, be careful which posts in this
newsgroup you read, and which you read *completely*. People generally try
to use spoiler space, page breaks, or ROT-13 to hide spoily information,
but it can easily be forgotten in an in-depth conversation or a reply to a
spoily comment.
The Absolute Beginner's Guide was mentioned in another post. It can be
found on the web here:
http://www.melankolia.net/nethack/nethack.guide.html
> some good dwarven mithril armor (AC -1, woohoo! personal best so far),
Heh. I think my best is around -55. I'm getting close to trying a
semi-extinctionist game just to try to max out AC and damage dealt even
more thoroughly.
> the [floating] eye nailed me to the floor just in time for the
> Gnome lord to come and do his duty.
Yep, that's what floating eyes do, alright. They're probably the first
biggish hurdle in the learning curve for nethack newbies, beyond the
interface.
> First order of business is this:
> A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> class are you thinking about right now?
This question comes up a lot, and Valkyries are a common answer.
However, I disagree. I say you should play around with a few different
levels, see what seems like fun, and just pick a role and race you feel
attached to. This is why my first ascension was an elvish ranger, and
since then I have ascended an archaelogist and a priest. These are the
roles that have appealed to me. I have little interest in "combat
wombats" like the barbarian, valkyrie, and etc. Currently, I'm playing
some light, throwaway games before returning to my goal of ascending a
relatively difficult, conduct-heavy healer.
> C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
> mostly related to playing the game and not source diving? I code
> for a living, I don't want to parse C to have more fun with non-
> work pursuits...
My understanding comes from gameplay, this newsgroup, and spoilers.
Lots of spoilers. Too many spoilers, probably, but it's too late to
change that now.
I don't speak C, and my source diving has mostly been limited to
grepping for a text string when I hear a strange sound in the dungeon,
trying to figure out what's happening out of my view...
--
-Dayv!
"When our friends are afraid of us rather than for us,
it is time to worry."
Ben Lee
> First order of business is this:
> A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> class are you thinking about right now?
Try lots of classes, although I like monks an valkyries. Also, try
S L A S H E M
u o d t a x a
p t d u c t g
e s e f k e i
r d f n c
o d
f e
d
Dayv!
>
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 07:52:35 -0800, Thom Jeffries wrote:
>
>> First order of business is this:
>> A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
>> class are you thinking about right now?
>
> Try lots of classes, although I like monks an valkyries. Also, try
>
> S L A S H E M
If you decide to try Slash'Em, I recommend waiting until you've played
nethack enough to see the differences. It's not *just* a bunch of new
roles and stuff, it's also some good ideas, a handful of bad ones, and an
overarching lack of balance and consistency that needs lots of
playtesting to reach resolution, IMO. Of course, it's also still
technicaly in the beta stages, something many players may forget.
J. Ali Harlow
> If you decide to try Slash'Em, I recommend waiting until you've played
> nethack enough to see the differences. It's not *just* a bunch of new
> roles and stuff, it's also some good ideas, a handful of bad ones, and an
> overarching lack of balance and consistency that needs lots of
> playtesting to reach resolution, IMO. Of course, it's also still
> technicaly in the beta stages, something many players may forget.
I certainly agree that NetHack is better for newbies, but let me explain
a little more what Slash'EM is about. Firstly, Slash'EM isn't intended
as a rival to NetHack - it's intended as a game in which new ideas and
features can be developed, tested and improved on before hopefully being
incorporated into NetHack itself. It's also a game which people can play
as an alternative to NetHack and thus includes all sorts of odd things
that will never make it into NetHack but are fun to play with as an
alternative.
Slash'EM Ranger is considered stable, despite the beta tag (which is an
artifact of the way that the versioning system worked - since removed).
The latest version of this is 0.0.6E4F8. This doesn't mean that we think
it's balanced - just that it's relatively bug free (although there are
several known bugs). There are no plans to release any more versions in
this series.
Slash'EM Vampire, which is the current development series, is still in
alpha. I'm hoping to get this into beta development in early summer of
this year - we'll see. The latest version of this is 0.0.6E8, with
version 0.0.6E9 due out at the end of March.
HTH,
--
J. Ali Harlow Email: J.A.H...@city.ac.uk
"When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and
the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful
of him, the son of man that you care for him?" Psalm 8 v 3-4, NIV.
David Damerell
>First order of business is this:
>A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> class are you thinking about right now?
Valkyrie (there were no races in 3.1.3, except the Elf class).
Today it is still true that "If someone put a gun to my head and said
that I had to ascend on the first try or die with my character, I'd
choose a Valk to play." - David Goldfarb.
Dwarven valkyries are probably the very easiest, but the race is the icing
on the cake.
>B) Am I supposed to be able to recognize the garbled acronyms
> that permeate the YAAP and YASD posts at this point in my career?
Not yet - but there are FAQs of the common ones around.
>C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
> mostly related to playing the game and not source diving?
Perhaps I shouldn't answer this one. :-)
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Thom Jeffries
> "Thom Jeffries" wrote...
>
> > C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
> > mostly related to playing the game and not source diving? I code
> > for a living, I don't want to parse C to have more fun with non-
> > work pursuits...
>
> Most of the work in source diving has already been done for you
> and is available in fun 'n easy "spolier" format. Most of the credit for my
> 3 wins goes to spoilers. Be warned that once you read enough, you can
> never boast an "unspoiled" ascention.
>
> These spoilers can be found at many sites. My personal favourite is:
>
> http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/
Thanks for the pointer. B'arked.
> > Thanks you for you time and attention.
> > Hopefully I'll be seeing you all around, provided you don't plonk me
> > for being an idiot right off the bat. :P~
>
> We don't plonk anyone unless they ask for warez or other hackish
> stuff while ignoring the "rec.games.roguelike" part.
Cool. I attribute my burly man physique to the consumption of
moochers elsewhere in the glory that is Usenet, but it still
seemed an empty sort of victory. Good to hear that such ilk
is just ignored 'round here, as that's one less debate to get
involved in every other week. :)
--
Thom Jeffries
Thom Jeffries
> Thom Jeffries wrote...
>
> > First order of business is this:
> > A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> > class are you thinking about right now?
>
> I am trying to ascend for the first time. =)
>
> Barbarian seems to be the best class since they are poison resistant
> and stuff.
Wow. I haven't been poisoned yet.
What unpresuming ascii character are we talking about here on
the pre-Gnome Mines levels? The spiders?
And am I supposed to feel amazed or disgruntled that I've died a
completely different way or to a completely different danger
*every* single time I've play?
--
Thom Jeffries
Thom Jeffries
> Thom Jeffries wrote:
>
> > First order of business is this:
> > A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> > class are you thinking about right now?
>
> Definitely Valkyrie. They, along with Barbarians, are the easiest hack
> 'n slash class. You don't have to worry much about spells or anything,
> so you can just get used to the game without dying as much as you would
> with some other class.
Dwarven valkyrie is what I've been working on, but my deepest jaunt
was with a randomly generated barbarian. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
> > C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
> > mostly related to playing the game and not source diving? I code
> > for a living, I don't want to parse C to have more fun with non-
> > work pursuits...
>
> Most folks here aren't source-divers. In fact, the only time I
> source-dive is to verify specific behavior, like how magic resistance is
> calculated or how luck affects praying, or to check on monster
> statistics. Obviously, that's non-essential information and is trumped
> by the information gathered while actually playing the game.
I see.
But I find such messages as "You hear the footsteps of a guard." and
the like quite disturbing when I don't even know if they're something
being randomly generated for some flavor or if there is something run-
ning around the dungeon with me and I just can't find it.
That's why I'm worried. I guess I'm not familiar enough with the
interface and mechanics to know if the devteam has "flavor" bits
added in or if everything is represented of an actual item/creature/
etc. in the dungeon, if only I knew what they meant.
--
Thom Jeffries
Thom Jeffries
> Thom Jeffries wrote...
>
> > So basically this is an intro post. I'm likely to be around,
> > asking stupid questions that you've heard thousands of times
>
> Remember the power of Googling the archives :-)
Recommendation taken. Being a semi-regular elsewheres allows me
to appreciate the polite version of what other might have stated
as "You better Google before asking stupid questions or we'll
come to your house and filet your liver and feed it to the
neighbor's poodle. That's right. We know your neighbor has a
poodle...Muahahahahahahahahaha!"
> > B) Am I supposed to be able to recognize the garbled acronyms
> > that permeate the YAAP and YASD posts at this point in my career?
>
> If you read the faq, you can. Also, a lot of it is immediately
> understandable if you know the convention of abbreviating objects as
> <nethack symbol for object><acronym of object's name>, so that for
> instance a wand of wishing might be abbreviated /oW or /WoW, or a
> potion of gain level as !oGL
You are my new best friend. If that's in the FAQ, I completely
missed that part in my skimming of it yesterday. Thanks.
> > C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you all have is
> > mostly related to playing the game and not source diving? I code
> > for a living, I don't want to parse C to have more fun with non-
> > work pursuits...
>
> Heh - my husband does this stuff for a living too, and only recently
> has he started to find playing the game as entertaining as reading the
> source code :-P
Masochist. It's that simple. :) Heck, if I have to code two projects
in the same language in a row I feel stuck in a rut. Well, except Perl,
because it's so wonky sometimes that it can feel like two different
languages.
Oh wait. The latest release essentially is a new language. Silly me,
and here I... *smack*
Back to Nethack. Sorry for the interruption. :)
--
Thom Jeffries
Thom Jeffries
> Thom Jeffries wrote:
>
> > I'm new to the group. New to Nethack. New to rogue-likes.
>
> But luckily, you don't appear to be new to clarity and posting
> etiquette. This makes you the good kind of newbie. Pull up a chair and
> stay a spell...
Well, I try.
> The Absolute Beginner's Guide was mentioned in another post. It can be
> found on the web here:
>
> http://www.melankolia.net/nethack/nethack.guide.html
B'arked. Thanks.
> > some good dwarven mithril armor (AC -1, woohoo! personal best so far),
>
> Heh. I think my best is around -55. I'm getting close to trying a
> semi-extinctionist game just to try to max out AC and damage dealt even
> more thoroughly.
Heh. I had a feeling we weren't working with the stardard
-10 to 10 scale of ye olden days of RPG's. Did I say "DAMN!"
about the -55? I meant to, sorry.
> > the [floating] eye nailed me to the floor just in time for the
> > Gnome lord to come and do his duty.
>
> Yep, that's what floating eyes do, alright. They're probably the first
> biggish hurdle in the learning curve for nethack newbies, beyond the
> interface.
I've found that me, as a valkyrie, with a cursed sling and eight
rocks, just sucks at killing floating eyes. My kitten got a workout
yesterday, but luckily they're slow as crap sitting on the floor.
> > First order of business is this:
> > A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> > class are you thinking about right now?
>
> This question comes up a lot, and Valkyries are a common answer.
> However, I disagree. I say you should play around with a few different
> levels, see what seems like fun, and just pick a role and race you feel
> attached to. This is why my first ascension was an elvish ranger, and
> since then I have ascended an archaelogist and a priest. These are the
> roles that have appealed to me. I have little interest in "combat
> wombats" like the barbarian, valkyrie, and etc. Currently, I'm playing
> some light, throwaway games before returning to my goal of ascending a
> relatively difficult, conduct-heavy healer.
Point taken. I don't mind strongarm characters in RPG's: they're easy
to play and don't have to bookkeep nealy as much information as the
spellslingers. I've always held a special place in my heart for the
sniper-style bowman, so maybe I'll take ranger for a spin. I've not
tried one so far.
--
Thom Jeffries
Thom Jeffries
> Ben Lee wrote:
> > Thom Jeffries wrote:
> >
> >> First order of business is this:
> >> A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
> >> class are you thinking about right now?
> >
> > Try lots of classes, although I like monks an valkyries. Also, try
> >
> > S L A S H E M
>
> If you decide to try Slash'Em, I recommend waiting until you've played
> nethack enough to see the differences. It's not *just* a bunch of new
> roles and stuff, it's also some good ideas, a handful of bad ones, and an
> overarching lack of balance and consistency that needs lots of
> playtesting to reach resolution, IMO. Of course, it's also still
> technicaly in the beta stages, something many players may forget.
*More* roles and rules than NH? Yikes.
I think I'll play in the kiddie pool a little while longer.
--
Thom Jeffries
Dylan O'Donnell
> But I find such messages as "You hear the footsteps of a guard." and
> the like quite disturbing when I don't even know if they're something
> being randomly generated for some flavor or if there is something run-
> ning around the dungeon with me and I just can't find it.
>
> That's why I'm worried. I guess I'm not familiar enough with the
> interface and mechanics to know if the devteam has "flavor" bits
> added in or if everything is represented of an actual item/creature/
> etc. in the dungeon, if only I knew what they meant.
Every non-interface-related message you see in the top line represents
something happening. (That something might be your character reading a
meaningless message that _is_ just flavour, for example graffiti on
the floor; but still, it reflects an actual element of the game
world.) The relationship might be tenuous (the message you cite
denotes the presence of a certain room on the level, rather than an
actual guard monster (though those exist as well)), but it's there.
--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Houston, Taurus base here. The Othello has landed." :
: -- Graham Nelson, "Jigsaw" :
Dylan O'Donnell
> P Harris wrote ...
> > > B) Am I supposed to be able to recognize the garbled acronyms
> > > that permeate the YAAP and YASD posts at this point in my career?
> >
> > If you read the faq, you can. Also, a lot of it is immediately
> > understandable if you know the convention of abbreviating objects as
> > <nethack symbol for object><acronym of object's name>, so that for
> > instance a wand of wishing might be abbreviated /oW or /WoW, or a
> > potion of gain level as !oGL
>
> You are my new best friend. If that's in the FAQ, I completely
> missed that part in my skimming of it yesterday. Thanks.
The FAQ covers a few of the most common abbreviations; for the
rest, it points to http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/abbr-341.txt ,
which (among other things) details this schema and its variations.
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
Thom Jeffries <thom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>P Harris wrote ...
>> Remember the power of Googling the archives :-)
>Recommendation taken. Being a semi-regular elsewheres allows me
>to appreciate the polite version of what other might have stated
>as "You better Google before asking stupid questions or we'll
>come to your house and filet your liver and feed it to the
>neighbor's poodle. That's right. We know your neighbor has a
>poodle...Muahahahahahahahahaha!"
As long as you only take one lobe of the liver, and give me time to
injest something appropriate, it could be worth it if the neighbor has a
poodle :)
hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
doc...@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \
Bwooce
> What unpresuming ascii character are we talking about here on
> the pre-Gnome Mines levels? The spiders?
Without being too spoily, look out for certain 'a's and 's's. Also,
evil forces may decide to poison darts or arrows or daggers or even the
spikes in certain pits.
> And am I supposed to feel amazed or disgruntled that I've died a
> completely different way or to a completely different danger
> *every* single time I've play?
Both! But you're learning. :) That's what's important.
--
Bruce Labbate | Gotta cut away, clear away, snip away
shiftless layabout | and sever this umbilical residue
| that's keeping me from killing you.
| - A Perfect Circle
David Ploog
615991f1.03030...@posting.google.com...
> Hello folks.
>
Hi! :-)
> So basically this is an intro post. I'm likely to be around,
> asking stupid questions that you've heard thousands of times
> before, trying to ascend within my lifetime, preferably without
> tons and tons of spoilers.
So instead of telling you how to survive, we'll be telling you
how to die. Only with the best intentions, of course. ;-)
David
--
They say that playing NetHack is like walking into a death trap.
Bort13
Admirable undertaking, but one that will prove rewarding. After 12
years, I have spread the nethack virus to nearly 20 people and wasted
countless hours in countries all over the world. I can tell you from
oodles of experience what I think the most important things are,
without being *too* spoily. As with most skills, these rules bend
with time, but sticking to them in a novice/early game won't hurt.
This is volunteered, though, you may want to wait until you have to
ask the questions.
First and foremost, watch your hitpoints. Get used to glancing down
there periodically, because eventually, you want to be watching the
entire status bar. During a long game, it's easy to miss a
status/ailment (e.g. Hungry, Blind, Conf) and you want to acquire good
habits early on. If you get to 50% of your max hitpoints, it's a good
idea to run. Use doorways to your advantage.
Never hurry and hold a keyboard key down. Nethack is a game where you
can stop and think, but the turn-based nature of it can turn against
you if you move too quickly. A few hundred milliseconds of typematic
periods can translate into a lot of "The large kobold hits!". Use a
count command if you're repeatedly waiting or searching. Use shift
keys and the movement keys (see help) to move large distances.
Newbies often neglect to move diagonally, that's truly important,
especially when you're running. Recommended, but not required is
learning movement with the vi keys.
Watch your food. If you only have one meal left, hunting and
gathering should be job #1. Stock it, it's heavy, but starving sucks.
If you get a lot of food together, putting it in a sack and dropping
the sack near the stairs of each level isn't a bad strategy. Carry
some with you, though. Always.
Remember that you can throw weapons (rocks!) and use your quiver.
Missiles in the early levels can be an effective strategy for staying
alive.
Everyone says Barbarian and Valkyries to start, and I agree. Both are
great, and eventually you'll be able to play one into the low levels
whenever you want. But they do get a little dull. A Samurai is a
good, similar change of pace.
Spice your life up with a Wizard -- lots of goodies, and weak, but
easily strengthened and eventually powerful. Be wowed by the powers
of a Priest. Learn real missile weapon skills with a Ranger, or the
near infinite hitpoints of a Healer. What do I play? Nearly
exclusively Archaeologists (tough, I don't recommend it). I'd
recommend avoiding Cavemen/women, Tourists (lotsa fun later), Rogues,
and Monks (until you can get used to vegetarianism, then, Monks rule).
Knights are tougher than they used to be.
Stay out of the mines until you have 50 hit points (arbitrary number,
but a good one), and it's also best if you have a light source. Be
very careful in Mine Town. Half my promising characters die there.
It's hard to starve in the mines, though. It can be a good place to
get a few quick meals if your larder is empty.
Speaking of dying easily, be very careful when restarting a saved
game. It can take a while to get the context of a character back in
your head, and it's very easy to forget the pack of rothes outside the
closed door and die suddenly. This will prove incredibly frustrating
to you, I promise.
The abbreviated "don't toy with" list: nymphs, floating eyes, soldier
ants, killer bees, rothe packs, lycanthropes (werethings), shopkeepers
(ok, do it once).
Fountains are a roulette wheel; sometimes you win big, sometimes you
die.
Finally, even with all the information, the deck is stacked against
you. Nethack has claimed the life of every character I've ever
played. I've been three steps from the final altar and died. Play
and discover for a while, but read the spoilers when you want to get
serious.
Enjoy, it's the greatest game ever.
Rob
Tina Hall
> I'm new to the group. New to Nethack. New to rogue-likes.
One of my favorite messages of the game fits just right here, I
think:
Nethack is addictive. Too late, you're already hooked.
<eg>
Welcome to Anonymous Nethackers. (Ok, I just want to found an
Anonymous Something at the moment.)
> And I died. Like crazy. And getting fed up with such a waste of
> time (these were the good old days of college, remember, when
> there was much booze to be drunk, many women to ogle, and
> endless other free downloadable stuff to peruse).
<scratching head> No, doesn't ring any bells.
> NH, featuring the RNG that it does, is still con- founding the
> crap out of me on every attempt.
The best way to drag the RNG (screaming and kicking if need be)
onto your side is #offering Him His favorite sacrifices.
> So basically this is an intro post. I'm likely to be around,
Hope so. I rather like your intro post.
> First order of business is this:
> A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What
> race/class are you thinking about right now?
Wizards. But then, I'm stubborn. I had my mind set on wizards,
and if it'd take forever, I would not waver. I didn't too (well,
almost, there were a very few other attempts at the start), but
it took about 328 games until one got lucky.
As some more useful advice, either consider what strategy fits
you best (most new players would probably fare best with strong
fighters), just set your mind on your favorite role and try to
get lucky with that, or try out various combinations to get a
better overall feel. I'll add some bits about race/role
differences, after a page break at the bottom, as that might be
considered unwanted spoiler.
> B) Am I supposed to be able to recognize the garbled acronyms
> that permeate the YAAP and YASD posts at this point in my
> career?
Which ones?
(Btw, could people please stop using 'newbie' as a tag? It
doesn't tell anything about the context.)
> C) Please tell me that the level of understanding you
> all have is mostly related to playing the game and not
> source diving? I code for a living, I don't want to parse C
> to have more fun with non-work pursuits...
Playing (and testing stuff in wizardmode), reading spoilers,
reading rgrn. There are some source divers around, which I admire
from my purple rubber dinghy, splashing around the edges. The
source divers, and our resident source drowner, are nice and
share their catches with the rest of us. They give advice on
catching fish too, though all I could manage was an old boot. I
guess all divers started with an old boot once.
Anyway, no, you don't need to spend your time digging through the
source code. A lot of it is spelled out in plain words in
spoilers.
> Hopefully I'll be seeing you all around, provided you don't
> plonk me for being an idiot right off the bat. :P~
If you stop drooling I might just not. ;)
(Just incase the above can be misunderstood, 'drooling' is the
only way I can interpret the smiley.)
Here's the page break, spoilers on roles/races follow.
The abbreviations are possible alignments: Chaotic, Neutral,
Lawful. First, a table of combinations (if there's an error,
someone please correct me, I'm using this table for planning
future games too) and of maximal stats (good for considering
spellcaster/fighter).
Arc Bar Cav Hea Kni Mon Pri Ran Rog Sam Tou Val Wiz
NL CN NL N L CNL CNL CN C L N NL CN
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Human CNL x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Dwarf L x | x | | | | | | | | x |
Orc C | x | | | | | x x | | | x
Gnome N x | x x | | | x | | | | x
Elf C | | | | | | x x | | | | x
St Dx Co In Wi Ch max. carry in gems
Human 18/** 18 18 18 18 18 1000
Dwarf 18/** 20 20 16 16 16 1000
Orc 18/50 18 18 16 16 16 1000
Gnome 18/50 18 18 19 18 18 1000
Elf 18 18 16 20 20 18 900
I'm pretty sure there's a spoiler somewhere for what intrinsics
they start out with, but I can't find one for Vanilla here (not
sure I've got one).
If you get set on a specific strategy, it's good to chose a race
that fits the role, such as dwarf for valkyries, so you can reach
the higher strength and constitution, or gnomes for wizards, so
you can gain one more point of Intelligence (I'm biased against
elves for their physical weakness, though many would advise them
for spellcasters). Orcs are good for their poison resistance
only, I think.
You can pretty much ignore charisma. (Why high charisma only
confuses me at least, would be a spoiler about in-game stuff.)
The following is mainly from an early game point of view (later
on, there isn't much difference, any role can learn to fight
somehow, with the right weapon, just not every role can get all
that good at spellcasting, which does the most damage and makes
live easier).
Good fighters would be valkyries, barbarians and samurai. Good as
dwarves, humans or orcs.
A bit more difficult are rogues, rangers, archaeologists,
cavemen, and knights. (Rangers and cavemen can't twoweapon.) Best
as humans or dwarves.
Worst off are tourists, healers and priests, they are pretty weak
fighters and don't even have the offensive spell a wizard starts
out with. (Tourists can twoweapon.) Any (possible) race should be
ok.
Monks kick hard in the early game, and are good at spellcasting,
but their Quest is rather tough. If you don't expect to reach
that too soon, though, play them. You can mostly ignore the vegan/
vegetarian conduct, but don't wield weapons or wear body armor
(shirt and cloak isn't body armor, incase that isn't clear). They
don't much need either at that stage of the game. You should see
more of the game than with most other roles.
The best spellcasters are wizards. They have a tough early game,
but they do have an offensive spell or two. Worst choice would be
orcs, any other possible race should be ok.
With the weaker characters, you need to be more careful, run away
a lot. With the tougher character you can mostly just charge
whatever pops around the corner.
Tina, with a random end-of-game for your amusement:
0.0.6 4168 0 5 5 0 48 1 20010816 20010816 42 Wiz Vam Mal Cha Sourast,
killed by a human zombie, while helpless
Roger Broadbent
"Thom Jeffries" <thom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:615991f1.03030...@posting.google.com...
> And am I supposed to feel amazed or disgruntled that I've died a
> completely different way or to a completely different danger
> *every* single time I've play?
Feel proud you haven't made the same mistake twice ;-)
Roger
Wes Irby
>
> But I find such messages as "You hear the footsteps of a guard." and
> the like quite disturbing when I don't even know if they're something
> being randomly generated for some flavor or if there is something run-
> ning around the dungeon with me and I just can't find it.
>
notes. I kept one general set of notes where I copied
messages from fortune cookies and from the Oracle as well as
any association I thought I had made between a message and a
result. I figured out what could poison me by being poisoned
and keeping notes!
I still keep a separate text file on each character to note
things I might need to know later, like where I left my foo
or there's a dangerous foo on level xx. You might like to
note the turn on which you last prayed or ate.
Use "?" and read the list of commands from time to time. You
won't use most of the commands when you first start and you
need to master most of them eventually. Look at the options
you are given in the prompt after you give a command like
t(hrow). It might suggest possibilities you hadn't
considered.
You get the idea, I'm sure. Good luck.
Wes
--
Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you
to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
Tina Hall
> P Harris wrote ...
> > Remember the power of Googling the archives :-)
>
> Recommendation taken. Being a semi-regular elsewheres allows
> me to appreciate the polite version of what other might have
> stated as "You better Google before asking stupid questions or
> we'll come to your house and filet your liver and feed it to
> the neighbor's poodle. That's right. We know your neighbor has
> a poodle...Muahahahahahahahahaha!"
Nono, we just sacrifice you to the RNG, to ensure good fortune
for the next hope-to-be-reached ascension. <bright smile>
Tina, with a random end-of-game for your amusement:
3.3.1 596 0 1 1 -1 29 1 20010404 20010404 42 Arc Hum Mal Neu Damien,
killed by a fox
Tars_Tarkas
> thom...@hotmail.com (Thom Jeffries) wrote in message news:<615991f1.03030...@posting.google.com>...
>>First order of business is this:
>>A) Pretend you're trying to ascend for the first time. What race/
>> class are you thinking about right now?
>
>
> If you are a "whack-and-slash, think later if at all, and never run
> away" personality type, then a Valkyrie or possibly Barbarian is the
> traditional choice for easiest.
Valkyrie's have the best Quest Artifact for this kind of playing style,
though.
> If OTOH you are of a more cautious
> frame of mind, and prefer to be devious and wise (until you get far
> enough into the game when you can safely engage in massive displays of
> wholesale pyrotechnics <g>), then a Wizard might be more to your
> taste.
>
> All classes have *some* advantages (ok, well, Cavemen don't have
> *many* advantages)
Oh come on, Cavemen are sooo cool. They have such a cool Quest Nemesis.
And they have less food problems than other people. And, erm, ok, that's
really not that many advantages...
> , it just depends on what you're good or bad at. My
> husband finds healers easy as dirt, I can't keep 'em alive past explvl
> 6 <shrug>
Learn to keep pets. Lots of pets. With the Healers meatball-generating
spell, you'll not have many problems keeping them fed and tame. Just
don't starve yourself ;)
--
GP_Spukgestalt, gnomish Healer, killed by a newt, while helpless.
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
Bort13 <pean...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>habits early on.
>If you get to 50% of your max hitpoints, it's a good
>idea to run.
*Now* you tell me :)
>Recommended, but not required is
>learning movement with the vi keys.
No! all players must learn the vi keys *and* learn vi.
What kind of silly notions are you going to tlell them next--that
freshmen don't have to by hall passes from upperclassmen?
Thom Jeffries
> Thom Jeffries wrote...
>
> > asking stupid questions that you've heard thousands of times
> > before, trying to ascend within my lifetime, preferably without
> > tons and tons of spoilers.
>
> So instead of telling you how to survive, we'll be telling you
> how to die. Only with the best intentions, of course. ;-)
Understood. :)
Except the DevTeam and my own ignorance seem to be helping quite
enough right now, thanks. Just today I fell prey to my very first
rolling boulder trap. Of course it was right after I found the
boulder and thought to myself "What a stupid place for a boulder."
Die and learn apparently. :p
--
Thom Jeffries
Thom Jeffries
>
*snip excellent advice that has hereby been archived by yours truly*
>
> Enjoy, it's the greatest game ever.
It certainly seems to be shaping up that way.
The thing is, I like playing games and spend a more-than-fair amount
of my days working on, playing or thinking about them. I DM a 3rd
Edition campaign, mostly non-published material that I concoct, have
a horrible addiction to see what happens in _Suikoden III_ once I
get all three characters together in the later chapters, and spend
my lunch hour each day checking up on the state of affairs on the
MUD I play on occasionally.
Then comes the announcement on /. that there's a 3.4.1 release of
Nethack. Considering that this is the sixth or eighth time I've
tried it or the latest version of Rogue, I'm surprised to find that
this time, for whatever reason, I'm sticking with it and having a
good bit of fun. YASD after YASD.
And now I've nearly put it on a floppy and took it home three
different times, I only check notes on the MUD at lunch, and
I've yet to write up some of the necessary NPC's for Friday's
game, all because this darn game that I suck at is waiting for
me at noon. :p
At least I have the willpower to wait until noon.
Oh yeah, thanks for the great advice and welcome.
--
Thom Jeffries
David Ploog
615991f1.03030...@posting.google.com...
>
> enough right now, thanks. Just today I fell prey to my very first
> rolling boulder trap. Of course it was right after I found the
> boulder and thought to myself "What a stupid place for a boulder."
>
>
> Die and learn apparently. :p
>
I suppose that's how NetHack works. Some people here even have been
trying to introduce another acronym (sp?): YALD (Yet Another Learning
Death).
David
--
If you can't learn to do it well, learn to enjoy doing it badly.
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
David Ploog <h044...@rz.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>Thom Jeffries <thom...@hotmail.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
>615991f1.03030...@posting.google.com...
>> Except the DevTeam and my own ignorance seem to be helping quite
>> enough right now, thanks. Just today I fell prey to my very first
>> rolling boulder trap. Of course it was right after I found the
>> boulder and thought to myself "What a stupid place for a boulder."
>Did it have a better place afterwards? *duck*
Of course--aren't all boulders fond of cushions? They're so much more
comfortable than sitting on the floor :)
hawk, always helpful
Bort13
> >
> *snip excellent advice that has hereby been archived by yours truly*
> >
> > Enjoy, it's the greatest game ever.
>
> It certainly seems to be shaping up that way.
>
> The thing is, I like playing games and spend a more-than-fair amount
> of my days working on, playing or thinking about them. I DM a 3rd
> Edition campaign, mostly non-published material that I concoct, have
> a horrible addiction to see what happens in _Suikoden III_ once I
> get all three characters together in the later chapters, and spend
> my lunch hour each day checking up on the state of affairs on the
> MUD I play on occasionally.
>
Fantasy Tactics and Chrono Cross. Both have their incredibly perfect
little systems, much like nethack.
As if I needed more encouragement to run my mouth, I'll say that
nethack is the chess of video games. Each game, you're playing a
grandmaster of a turn-based AI that will almost certainly kick your
a$$. But getting good at it is fun -- I had a ridiculous 6 turn
massacre in the first level of the mines the other day using a Samurai
& yumi. No corpse was within four spaces of me, and they made this
little arc of twisted gnome corpses and crappy weapons. I sat there
laughing at it for about five minutes. No other game has that kind of
wit.
What should be done here is that your initial post and followups
should be posted to alt.newbie.faq on how to elicit critical
information when undertaking a complicated hobby.
Fun fun fun,
Rob