How to enable autoquiver?
SamIAm
can you specify what the autoquiver takes? i.e., only take daggers?
Thanks for any help.
rpresser
Add this line to defaults.nh:
OPTIONS=autoquiver
(Or, add autoquiver to any already existing, non-commented-out OPTIONS
line.)
Autoquiver can always choose daggers, darts, shruiken, knives, spears,
or javelins. If you have a bow wielded, it will prefer arrows (or ya)
to any of those; if a crossbow is wielded, it will prefer bolts; if a
sling wielded, it will prefer rocks and unidentified, un-called gems.
I'm probably missing something, but that's the basics.
Jove
[Expanding on rpresser's sterling work.]
>
>SamIAm wrote:
>> I'm not that conversant with manually configging the CFG file. Also,
>> can you specify what the autoquiver takes? i.e., only take daggers?
>> Thanks for any help.
>
>Add this line to defaults.nh:
>
>OPTIONS=autoquiver
>
>(Or, add autoquiver to any already existing, non-commented-out OPTIONS
>line.)
Autoquiver only kicks in when the 'f'ire command is issued and there
isn't any currently quivered ammunition. The 'f'ire command has an
invisible benefit. It will only automatically quiver and fire missile
weapons. This will keep you from absent-mindedly throwing your bow at a
monster. (I've seen it happen.)
The 't'hrow command completely ignores quivered ammunition (and
thereby ignores autoquiver as well).
Why have two different command to hurl missiles? So you can easily
have two different types of ready use ammunition ready.
- Generally reserve the deadlier stuff for tougher monsters.
- Also important for ammunition that can vanish:
- darts
- arrows, etc.
An early Ranger would probably
- 'Q'uiver the starting +0 arrows as the default missiles
- to use with 'f'
- The starting +2 arrows would be #adjusted to 't' for 't'hrowing
at tougher monsters.
There are ways to make this even easier.
#adjust the +0 arrows to 'Q'. Quivering them then becomes a simple
matter of 'QQ'. Why is this important? You want a sure-fire way to
requiver them if you end up firing all of them away.
#adjust the +2 arrows to 't'. Firing them then becomes a simple
matter of 'tt'.
Having two different ready use missiles available is convenient in
other situations:
- When training a pet to steal
- #adjust pet treats to 't'.
- Early tourist should probably:
- Quiver rocks as the primary missile weapon
- Use the starting +2 darts for tougher monsters.
- When in Sokoban keep some rocks at 't':
- Use them to kill hostile monsters stuck behind boulders.
- The primary missile weapon (arrows, daggers, etc) can be quivered.
>
>Autoquiver can always choose daggers, darts, shruiken, knives, spears,
>or javelins. If you have a bow wielded, it will prefer arrows (or ya)
>to any of those; if a crossbow is wielded, it will prefer bolts; if a
>sling wielded, it will prefer rocks and unidentified, un-called gems.
>
>I'm probably missing something, but that's the basics.
And well said, too.
Again, autoquiver only kicks in if you use the 'f'ire command and
there isn't any currently quivered ammunition. Usually this is not a
big deal if you've #adjusted your primary missile stack to 'Q' (for easy
requivering with 'QQ').
Autoquiver comes into its own when you have multiple short stacks of
missile weapons. This is even more valuable for multishot.
Autoquiver searches for suitable ammunition in a-zA-Z order.
- The primary missile stack should be at 'Q'.
- Remaining stacks in the range of R-Z, in order of importance.
Example inventory: (See the appendix for why R and T aren't used.)
Q - 3 daggers (in quiver)
S - 1 elven dagger
U - 1 orcish dagger
=====================
Autopickup Exceptions
=====================
The biggest problem with missile weapons is having to pick them up.
There's a pickup-thrown patch to facilitate this. Autopickup_Exceptions
can work almost as well and is available in vanilla NetHack. (But not
on NAO.)
Here's a general explanation of autopickup and autopickup_exceptions,
with examples:
<http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/autopickup.txt>
=========
Appendix:
=========
Letters in the range of R-Z you might want to reserve of items other
than missile stacks.:
- 'R' might reserved for one of your primary rings,
- for ease of removal 'RR'.
- 'T' might be reserved by spellcasters for a spell-hostile
shield.
- for ease of:
- removal 'TT'
- cast spell(s),
- re-wear as monster gets close: 'WT'
- 'W' works well for helmet of spell casters: 'WW' to re-wear.
(The DevTeam made those letters into frequently used commands, not
me.)
- Reserving 'Z' for your lizard corpse is useful
- less likely to try sacrificing it.
For more on frequently used commands that require inventory letters
see:
<http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/invl-343.txt>
Yes, that's a lot of #adjusting. Being able to do things without
thinking about inventory letters is priceless. The more automatic you
make the interface the more thought you can devote to playing the game.
--
Welcome to NetHack. | I take what I'm given.
| You exploit the game.
All the best, | He's an abusive cheater.
Jove (Joe Bednorz)
Doug Freyburger
> SamIAm wrote:
>
> > can you specify what the autoquiver takes? i.e., only take daggers?
>
I just reread the spoiler and it doesn't seem to mention knives.
Yet knives stack IIRC.
> or javelins.
I've never had more than one javelin - Do they stack?
> If you have a bow wielded, it will prefer arrows (or ya)
> to any of those; if a crossbow is wielded, it will prefer bolts; if a
> sling wielded, it will prefer rocks and unidentified, un-called gems.
>
> I'm probably missing something, but that's the basics.
It seems that missiles stack, weapons intended for melee combat
don't, as a general rule. The boomarang is the missile that is the
exception to that rule. I remember knives stacking so they seem
the exception on the melee weapon side but I may be remembering
wrong.
Jove's suggestion of using #adjust to set the order of what is
thrown is a good one. I like lower case near the top of the alphabet
over his sugggestions, though. That's probably because I like my
common items to get sorted first so my worn amulet is a, my
melee and alternate b and c, my favorite quivered missile d, then
shirt at e and so on. I save W-Z for my Quest artifact and special
items to make sure they are at the end.
That leaves around s-z and A-whatever for alternate quiverable
missiles until I've settled on one stack of highly enchanted blessed
missiles.
Jove
>rpresser wrote:
>> SamIAm wrote:
>>
>> > can you specify what the autoquiver takes? i.e., only take daggers?
>>
>> Autoquiver can always choose daggers, darts, shruiken, knives, spears,
>
>I just reread the spoiler and it doesn't seem to mention knives.
>Yet knives stack IIRC.
>
>> or javelins.
>
>I've never had more than one javelin - Do they stack?
>
>> If you have a bow wielded, it will prefer arrows (or ya)
>> to any of those; if a crossbow is wielded, it will prefer bolts; if a
>> sling wielded, it will prefer rocks and unidentified, un-called gems.
>>
>> I'm probably missing something, but that's the basics.
>
>It seems that missiles stack, weapons intended for melee combat
>don't, as a general rule.
Stacking is important for
- Multi-shot missiles,
- Mass:
- blessing
- enchanting
- poisoning
- Saving inventory slots.
Rocks and gems stack for mass blessing.
>The boomarang is the missile that is the exception to that rule.
Boomerangs stack.
>I remember knives stacking so they seem
>the exception on the melee weapon side but I may be remembering
>wrong.
The first hard and fast rule is that there are no hard and fast rules.
The following is based on weap1-343.txt.
Any weapon can be thrown.
Tentatively, a missile weapon is one:
- With an intrinsic to-hit bonus when thrown,
- e.g. boulders have an intrinsic +6 to-hit bonus when thrown.
- Can be used from a launcher.
- rocks, gems, glass, flint stones
- arrows
- quarrels (crossbow bolts)
- May vanish when it hits
- All poisonable weapons can vanish.
- that is multishot
- all weapons that can be launched are multishot when fired
from the appropriate launcher.
- rocks, gems, etc. can use, but do not require, a launcher.
- They are multishot capable when fired from a sling
- but not when thrown.
The +HIT column indicates intrinsic to-hit bonuses for a given weapon.
- t means when thrown
- w means when wielded
- tw means when either thrown or wielded.
Stackable weapons have (s) following the weapon name.
Launchable weapons have (l) following the weapon name.
Poisonable weapons have (p) following the weapon name.
E.g.
"arrow (lps)" means plain arrows:
- are launchable (and therefore multishot)
- can be poisoned
- stack
"dagger (ms)" means daggers:
- are multishot
- stack
There are a lot of interesting points. e.g. boulders get a +6 to-hit bonus
when thrown.
=============================================================================
Missiles fired from launchers have range [(Strength/2) + 1]
Thrown missiles have range: Strength/2
Melee weapons are range: 1
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~: ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~
WEAPON (Table 2) WGT ABCH KMPRaRo STVW +HIT SDAM SAVG LDAM LAVG
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~: ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~
Dagger : bbbs b--E E bEEE
orcish dagger (ms) 10: +2tw d3 2.0 d3 2.0
dagger (ms) 10: +2tw d4 2.5 d3 2.0
silver dagger (ms) 12: +2tw d4 2.5 d3 2.0
athame (ms) 10: +2w d4 2.5 d3 2.0
elven dagger (ms) 10: +2tw d5 3.0 d3 2.0
Knife : b-sE b--s E ss-s
worm tooth 20: d2 1.5 d2 1.5
knife (shito) (s) 5: +2t d3 2.0 d2 1.5
stiletto (s) 5: +2t d3 2.0 d2 1.5
scalpel (s) 5: +2w d3 2.0 d3 2.0
crysknife 20: +3tw d10 5.5 d10 5.5
Club : ssEs b-E- s ---s
club 30: d6 3.5 d3 2.0
aklys 15: +2t d6 3.5 d3 2.0
Hammer : -Es- b-Eb b -bE-
war hammer 50: +2t d4+1 3.5 d4 2.5
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~: ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~
WEAPON WGT ABCH KMPRaRo STVW +HIT SDAM SAVG LDAM LAVG
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~: ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~
Spear : -sEb sbss b bbsb
orcish spear (s) 30: +2t d5 3.0 d8 4.5
spear (s) 30: +2t d6 3.5 d8 4.5
silver spear (s) 36: +2t d6 3.5 d8 4.5
elven spear (s) 30: +2t d7 4.0 d8 4.5
dwarvish spear (s) 35: +2t d8 4.5 d8 4.5
Javelin : --sb sbsE - bbbb
javelin (s) 20: +2t d6 3.5 d6 3.5
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~: ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~
WEAPON WGT ABCH KMPRaRo STVW +HIT SDAM SAVG LDAM LAVG
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~: ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~
Bow : -bs- b-bE - Eb--
orcish bow 30: Launcher
bow 30: Launcher
elven bow 30: +1e Launcher
yumi 30: +1s Launcher
orcish arrow (lps) 1: +1r d5 3.0 d6 3.5
arrow (lps) 1: +1r d6 3.5 d6 3.5
silver arrow (lps) 1: +1r d6 3.5 d6 3.5
elven arrow (lps) 1:AllElf: +1dmg +1r d7 4.0 d6 3.5
ya (lps) 1:Samura+yumi: +1dmg +1l d7 4.0 d7 4.0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~: ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~
WEAPON WGT ABCH KMPRaRo STVW +HIT SDAM SAVG LDAM LAVG
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~: ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~
Sling : s-Es --bE - -bbs
sling 3: Launcher
flintstone (lsn) 10: d6 3.5 d6 3.5
rocks (lsn) 10: d3 2.0 d3 2.0
other gems/glass(lsn) 1: d3 2.0 d3 2.0
Crossbow : ---- sbbE E -b--
crossbow 50: Launcher
crossbow bolt (lps) 1: d4+1 3.5 d6+1 4.5
Dart : b--E --bE E -E-E
dart (mps) 1: +2t d3 2.0 d2 1.5
Shuriken : ---s -bbs s Eb-b
shuriken (mps) 1: +2t d8 4.5 d6 3.5
Boomerang : E-E- --bE - -b--
boomerang (s) 5: +4t d9 5.0 d9 5.0
Boulder : ---- ---- - ----
boulder (n) 6000: +6t d20 10.5 d20 10.5
Weapons are listed above first by skill class, then by increasing damage.
Alternative Japanese names are listed in parentheses (). The COST field
denotes the base price of each weapon. WGT specifies the weight (100
zorkmids weighs 1); an asterisk (*) signifies that the weapon requires
two hands to wield and prevents the use of a shield.
(apply also):
- Lances can also be 'a'pplied as a polearm at range 2,
- Bullwhips and unicorn horns can also be applied as tools.
(lmnps)
l - multishot capable when fired from launcher
m - multishot capable when thrown
n - can't be enchanted
p - poisonable
s - stackable
+HIT suffixes:
l - bonus when fired from a launcher
t - bonus when thrown
w - bonus when wielded
e - bonus for elf wielding elven bow
s - bonus for samurai bonus wielding yumi
r - bonus for elf/samurai wielding any bow
AllElf: An elf wielding an elven bow and firing elven arrows gets +1
damage per arrow as well as the chance of firing an additional arrow.
Samurai+yumi: A samurai wielding a yumi and firing ya gets +1 damage
per ya as well as the chance of firing an additional arrow.
A stack of weapons can be enchanted (if possible), poisoned (if
possible), and blessed as one item. The following weapons stack:
all arrows, crossbow bolts, dart, shuriken, boomerang, all spears,
javelins, all daggers, scalpels, stilettos, knives
Poisoned weapons have a 10% chance of instakill unless the monster is
poison resistant, else d6 more damage.
(apply at range 2): Weapon can only be applied at range two. Hitting
with it at range 1 does d2 base damage.
Launcher - A launcher is only effective as an enabler of missile
weapons. Bows for arrows; crossbows for crossbow bolts; slings for
flint, rocks, gems, glass, etc. Only when fired from a launcher are
those missiles capable of multishot.
=====================================================================
This is available as part of:
<http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/weap1a-343.txt>
>
>Jove's suggestion of using #adjust to set the order of what is
>thrown is a good one. I like lower case near the top of the alphabet
>over his sugggestions, though. That's probably because I like my
>common items to get sorted first so my worn amulet is a, my
>melee and alternate b and c, my favorite quivered missile d, then
>shirt at e and so on. I save W-Z for my Quest artifact and special
>items to make sure they are at the end.
>
>That leaves around s-z and A-whatever for alternate quiverable
>missiles until I've settled on one stack of highly enchanted blessed
>missiles.
All good, especially the common items being sorted first.
rpresser
Doug Freyburger wrote:
> rpresser wrote:
> > SamIAm wrote:
> >
> > > can you specify what the autoquiver takes? i.e., only take daggers?
> >
> > Autoquiver can always choose daggers, darts, shruiken, knives, spears,
>
> I just reread the spoiler and it doesn't seem to mention knives.
> Yet knives stack IIRC.
And they do autoquiver. (just tested)
>
> > or javelins.
>
> I've never had more than one javelin - Do they stack?
They don't stack, but they do autoquiver. (just tested)
> The boomarang is the missile that is the
> exception to that rule.
Ah, I forgot boomerangs. Well, they're near useless anyway. :-) I know
they can be fun and can be powerful but it takes too much thought to
use them. Give me straight-line missiles, please.
> I remember knives stacking so they seem
> the exception on the melee weapon side but I may be remembering
> wrong.
Shrug. I don't have a clear understanding of the division between
missiles and melee weapons.
> Jove's suggestion of using #adjust to set the order of what is
> thrown is a good one. I like lower case near the top of the alphabet
> over his sugggestions, though.
My usual #adjust habits are.
A-F: armor items: shirt first if I have one, then armor, then cloak,
then anything else. (When I'm getting dressed I want to do it without
*'ing for letters, but I think in alphabet better than I do
repeated-keys or close-together keys.)
a-b: primary weapon and alternate.
c-h: missile stacks; I'm not too diligent about this. My best missiles
will be in c. I seldom go past h for missile stacks.
Z,Y,X: bags
The following happened to be what I was using in my first really long
game that I remember, or at least the last long one before I realized
#adjust was useful. So they stick in my head.
j: tinning kit
k: pick-axe
l: unihorn
s: key
z: touchstone
L: lamp
sjde...@yahoo.com
> > The boomarang is the missile that is the
> > exception to that rule.
>
> Ah, I forgot boomerangs. Well, they're near useless anyway. :-)
They're a good way to excercise Dex.
David Justiss
news:8suqh2ligb9e574s0...@4ax.com
(snip stuff about autoquiver 'cause I changed the subject)
=
= There are ways to make this even easier.
=
= #adjust the +0 arrows to 'Q'. Quivering them then becomes a simple
= matter of 'QQ'. Why is this important? You want a sure-fire way to
= requiver them if you end up firing all of them away.
=
= #adjust the +2 arrows to 't'. Firing them then becomes a simple
= matter of 'tt'.
=
=
= Having two different ready use missiles available is convenient in
= other situations:
= - When training a pet to steal #adjust pet treats to 't'.
= - When in Sokoban keep some rocks at 't':
=..
= Again, autoquiver only kicks in if you use the 'f'ire command and
= there isn't any currently quivered ammunition. Usually this is not a
= big deal if you've #adjusted your primary missile stack to 'Q' (for
easy
= requivering with 'QQ').
=
= Autoquiver comes into its own when you have multiple short stacks of
= missile weapons. This is even more valuable for multishot.
= Autoquiver searches for suitable ammunition in a-zA-Z order.
= - The primary missile stack should be at 'Q'.
= - Remaining stacks in the range of R-Z, in order of importance.
=
= Example inventory: (See the appendix for why R and T aren't used.)
= Q - 3 daggers (in quiver)
= S - 1 elven dagger
= U - 1 orcish dagger
=
= Letters in the range of R-Z you might want to reserve of items other
= than missile stacks.:
=
= - 'R' might reserved for one of your primary rings,
= - for ease of removal 'RR'.
= - 'T' might be reserved by spellcasters for a spell-hostile
= shield.
= - for ease of:
= - removal 'TT'
= - cast spell(s),
= - re-wear as monster gets close: 'WT'
= - 'W' works well for helmet of spell casters: 'WW' to re-wear.
= - Reserving 'Z' for your lizard corpse is useful
= - less likely to try sacrificing it.
=
= Yes, that's a lot of #adjusting. Being able to do things without
= thinking about inventory letters is priceless. The more automatic you
= make the interface the more thought you can devote to playing the
game.
..I thought I'd add my 2 bits about inventory adjusting..
the following is just my example because I memorized them this way,
as long as I know where stuff is it makes the interface easier,
it doesn't have to make commands like 'QQ'.
main weapon is alwasys 'a'
secondary weapon is 'b'
missile launcher is 'c'
primary dagger stack is 'd'
beginning of game orcish dagger stack is 'q' (I usually get rid of that
stack once I have plenty other daggers)
beginning of game elven dagger stack is 'x'
especially enchanted dagger I happened to find early is 'u'
beginning of game other daggers are 'r', 's', 'g'
(around 'd' on the keyboard which is my main stack)
projectile stacks are usually 'C' & 'D'
(don't usually use them unless I'm a ranger or caveman)
lock pick/key is 'e'
darts (when I use them) are 'f' or 'F'
sack is 'Q', BoH is 'H', extra bag is 'h'
magic whistle is 'B'
pickaxe or mattock (unless used as main weapon) is 'w'
unicorn horn is 'U'
light source is 'R'
blindfold/towel is 'o'
I don't care where my armor is, I don't mind looking at my inventory
when I'm getting dressed or undressed. (then again maybe I should
start keeping my armor at certain slots, because just last game I
accidently put on a cursed cloak of invisibility near the beginning
of the game, and I had angered my god by eating a tin of gnome while
I was a gnome (just careless..), and had no way to uncurse it.)
My arrangement probably makes no sense except that that's how I've
memorized them, and as long as your fingers have memorized where stuff
is, it makes things easier. whatever spins your desk chair
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Doug Freyburger
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > I remember knives stacking so they seem
> > the exception on the melee weapon side but I may be remembering
> > wrong.
>
> Shrug. I don't have a clear understanding of the division between
> missiles and melee weapons.
Jove just posted an excellent tome on missiles and melee
weapons by type and ability. It reenforces my previous
opinion - Even the code doesn't have a clear cut division
between missiles and melee weapons. Thinking about this,
it fits with real world martial arts and ancient military methods.
What's a missile? If a monster throws it at you it's a missile
in the code per the DevTeam's intent. If it stacks and has the
possibility of multi-fire it's a missile in the code per the
DevTeam's intent. Those two lists don't quite match I think
- knives at least.
On the other hand if I type "t" and the game offers it in the list
it makes sense to throw it and that's every weapon in your
inventory. Hello 100% overlap between missiles and melee
weapons. For that matter any object at all can be thrown and
will cause damage, with *-class items counting in the stacks
and multi-fire list.
So I'll throw anything that stacks and anything I don't intend
to wield and eventually build up a stack of hightly enchanted
daggers (or arrows, ya, darts, whatever my class can multifire).
Not worry about definitions early on in favor of throwing the
kitchen sink. Ignore well defined missiles later on because I
already have a highly enchanted stack of my chosen type
later on.
It's interesting that javelins don't stack but are called "throwing
spears" before they are ID'd. Ive read novels where the Roman
legions would all carry one javelin and they would all volley
them into the enemy just beofre starting a line battle. It may
not be historical - I've never checked - but Nethack is going
with a well established literary tradition or historically accurate
trend.
An idea that has been posted before - attalat'l. A launcher for
javelins. Caveman could reach expert and change javelin to
stacking.
Doug Freyburger
>
> The following is based on weap1-343.txt.
>
> Any weapon can be thrown.
>
> Tentatively, a missile weapon is one:
> - With an intrinsic to-hit bonus when thrown,
> - e.g. boulders have an intrinsic +6 to-hit bonus when thrown.
> - Can be used from a launcher.
> - rocks, gems, glass, flint stones
> - arrows
> - quarrels (crossbow bolts)
> - May vanish when it hits
> - All poisonable weapons can vanish.
> - that is multishot
> - all weapons that can be launched are multishot when fired
> from the appropriate launcher.
> - rocks, gems, etc. can use, but do not require, a launcher.
> - They are multishot capable when fired from a sling
> - but not when thrown.
This file has some significant improvements over the HTML version on
Kate N's Yet Another Nethack Site. My Tivo gives it 3 thumbs up!
David Justiss
news:8suqh2ligb9e574s0...@4ax.com
>
> Here's a general explanation of autopickup and autopickup_exceptions,
> with examples:
> <http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/autopickup.txt>
I looked at this and tried to use it, putting lines like these
AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*box*"
AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*bugle*"
AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*chest*"
into my defaults.nh file, but it gave me a
'bad option line' error message.
Do you have to have a patch to use these? I thought you said it was
available in vanilla nethack?
Arthur J. O'Dwyer
On Sun, 1 Oct 2006, David Justiss wrote:
> "Jove" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote...
>>
>> Here's a general explanation of autopickup and autopickup_exceptions,
>> with examples:
>> <http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/autopickup.txt>
>
> I looked at this and tried to use it, putting lines like these
> AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*box*"
> AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*bugle*"
> AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*chest*"
> into my defaults.nh file, but it gave me a
> 'bad option line' error message.
>
> Do you have to have a patch to use these? I thought you said it was
> available in vanilla nethack?
It is in vanilla, but your copy has to have been compiled with the
AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTIONS macro defined. Apparently yours wasn't. But if
it had been, then your exceptions above would have worked.
There are lots of things that are "in vanilla" but not necessarily
compiled in (GOLDOBJ usually no, TOURIST usually yes, etc.); I would
have thought autopickup-exceptions were pretty likely. I guess not.
(BTW, I got all this information from the Guidebook. It's really
very useful.)
-Arthur
Jove
>Jove wrote:
>>
>> The following is based on weap1-343.txt.
>>
>> Any weapon can be thrown.
>>
>> Tentatively, a missile weapon is one:
>> - With an intrinsic to-hit bonus when thrown,
>> - e.g. boulders have an intrinsic +6 to-hit bonus when thrown.
>> - Can be used from a launcher.
>> - rocks, gems, glass, flint stones
>> - arrows
>> - quarrels (crossbow bolts)
>> - May vanish when it hits
>> - All poisonable weapons can vanish.
>> - that is multishot
>> - all weapons that can be launched are multishot when fired
>> from the appropriate launcher.
>> - rocks, gems, etc. can use, but do not require, a launcher.
>> - They are multishot capable when fired from a sling
>> - but not when thrown.
I'd like to note that the above criteria are an 'or' list, not 'and'.
I.e. any weapon with at least one of the attributes could be considered
a missile weapon.
For vanishing, it should be mentioned that any missile that can use a
launcher may vanish. Rocks, gems, glass, etc. can use a launcher, but
don't have to. They can vanish.
I hope the chaotic nature of missile weapons is made clear. I don't
think I can make a short missile weapon spoiler, other than "Throw
daggers when you can, rocks when you can't."
Vanishing is now explicitly listed per weapon in the spoiler. A
section about vanishing and its probability has also been added at the
end of the spoiler. You should now be able to access the weap1a-343.txt
spoiler from the "Advice and Spoiler" page on my website.
>> ...
>> This is available as part of:
>>
>> <http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/weap1a-343.txt>
>
>This file has some significant improvements over the HTML version on
>Kate N's Yet Another Nethack Site. My Tivo gives it 3 thumbs up!
Thanks. All due to Dylan O'Donnell's stellar work. If there's any
conflict between my version and Dylan's weapon1-343.txt, go with Dylan's
info. My enhanced version just attempts to make the data more
accessible.
Jove
>rpresser wrote:
>> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>>
>> > I remember knives stacking so they seem
>> > the exception on the melee weapon side but I may be remembering
>> > wrong.
>>
>> Shrug. I don't have a clear understanding of the division between
>> missiles and melee weapons.
>
>Jove just posted an excellent tome on missiles and melee
>weapons by type and ability. It reenforces my previous
>opinion - Even the code doesn't have a clear cut division
>between missiles and melee weapons. Thinking about this,
>it fits with real world martial arts and ancient military methods.
>
>What's a missile? If a monster throws it at you it's a missile
>in the code per the DevTeam's intent. If it stacks and has the
>possibility of multi-fire it's a missile in the code per the
>DevTeam's intent. Those two lists don't quite match I think
>- knives at least.
Not to forget the missiles that require launchers.
>
>On the other hand if I type "t" and the game offers it in the list
>it makes sense to throw it and that's every weapon in your
>inventory. Hello 100% overlap between missiles and melee
>weapons. For that matter any object at all can be thrown and
>will cause damage, with *-class items counting in the stacks
>and multi-fire list.
>
>So I'll throw anything that stacks and anything I don't intend
>to wield and eventually build up a stack of hightly enchanted
>daggers (or arrows, ya, darts, whatever my class can multifire).
>Not worry about definitions early on in favor of throwing the
>kitchen sink. Ignore well defined missiles later on because I
>already have a highly enchanted stack of my chosen type
>later on.
>
>It's interesting that javelins don't stack
Javelins stack. The stuff I posted even showed that. I also just
confirmed that in wizmode. Perhaps you confused the Javelin weapon
class with the javelin weapon?
Showing stacking by weapon class doesn't work. e.g.
- Some knife class weapons stack: knives, stilettos.
- Some knife class weapons don't stack: worm teeth, crysknives.
>but are called "throwing
>spears" before they are ID'd. Ive read novels where the Roman
>legions would all carry one javelin and they would all volley
>them into the enemy just beofre starting a line battle. It may
>not be historical - I've never checked - but Nethack is going
>with a well established literary tradition or historically accurate
>trend.
It's historically accurate, going by _A History of Warfare_ by John
Keegan, which I just reread. He may be wrong, but I can't think of
anyone who's word I'd take over Keegan's.
>
>An idea that has been posted before - attalat'l. A launcher for
>javelins. Caveman could reach expert and change javelin to
>stacking.
Javelins stack.
As a side note, spear makes almost as good a combination
wielded/missile weapon as daggers do. Spears are better wielded,
daggers are better thrown, but each can serve in the other role as well.
That can save a lot of skill slots.
Missile, primary, and secondary weapons all using the same skill
slots. I think this is why javelin and spear are two different skills.
Otherwise a priest could use a silver spear as primary weapon (can be
wished for, guaranteed), and the lighter javelins for ranged weapon, all
off of the same skill slots.
Maybe this isn't the real reason, since javelins are so difficult to
find. OTOH once you're in all/mostly dark levels you'll only get to
'f'ire two missiles before the enemy is at melee range. Two javelins
would be enough.
For (blue sky) #twoweaponing:
- Magicbane as Primary weapon,
- Silver dagger as secondary weapon
- can be wished for, guaranteed
- Stack of +7 elven daggers named DaggerStorm (in quiver)
Would be great. Just 6 skill slots total for all three weapon types.
Even #twoweaponing at Basic might be worth it, since that won't affect
the multishot capabilities of the Expert thrown daggers.
Dylan O'Donnell
> You should now be able to access the weap1a-343.txt spoiler from the
> "Advice and Spoiler" page on my website.
You might want to edit the header details so that it's clear that it
_is_ weap1a-343 rather than weap-343. (Just so that I don't get
confused should someone mail me asking questions about your version of
the spoiler...)
> Thanks. All due to Dylan O'Donnell's stellar work.
All due to Kevin Hugo's stellar work; I've updated and expanded it,
but it's thanks to him that I had anything _to_ update and expand.
--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "He puts evil in its place :
: With his martial arts and a stripy face!" :
: -- "Banzai Badger" theme tune :
Jove
>"Jove" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:8suqh2ligb9e574s0...@4ax.com
>
>
I think that you (and Doug earlier) have a good point. As long as the
same item is in the same place your fingers can do the walking without
having to look.
I have a mnemonic setup for armor:
A - Body armor
B - Boots
G - Gloves
S - Shield
T - T-shirt (or Hawaiian shirt)
W - Helmet
I know, not what I recommended to others. I'm in the same boat you
are because that was my first guess at how to do it. Now I'm too used
to it to change. I also wish it sorted from head down to toe, i.e.
helmet at the top and boots at the bottom.
That's sort of why I make the recommendations I do. It gives a reason
to use a certain letter to players who haven't yet frozen into some
random setup. They're also mnemonic in that they match the command
letter. That should make it a lot easier for someone who doesn't
already have a setup they're using. It also means order of inventory
listing isn't as important because you just hit the command key twice to
be sure things are the way you want.
That last is also important for typos. Sometimes I bounce a key, or
hold it just long enough to repeat, or just plain hit it twice.
(Someone just posted about this happening to them.)
If you match inventory letters to command letters double-keying is
never a problem. In NetHack where a single game can last 50k turns,
that kind of error mounts up.
For a full list of possibilities see:
<http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/invl-343.txt>
Another way to make inventory order less important is to start using
the '[' and ')' command to show worn armor and wielded weapon(s),
respectively. Or just go with the '*' command to show everything
currently in use. (Note that even the '$' is superior to looking at
the status line for your gold. '$' shows credit and debts in all shops
on the level. Useful when you've an unpaid item in your BoH.)
The ')' command is great for checking that you're #twoweaponing.
Again, if you've got a working set of inventory letters you use
consistently by all means stick with it. That's what's important.
Jove
>"Jove" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:8suqh2ligb9e574s0...@4ax.com
>
>>
>> Here's a general explanation of autopickup and autopickup_exceptions,
>> with examples:
>> <http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/autopickup.txt>
>
>I looked at this and tried to use it, putting lines like these
>AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*box*"
>AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*bugle*"
>AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*chest*"
> into my defaults.nh file, but it gave me a
>'bad option line' error message.
Those look exactly like the lines in my NetHack defaults.nh file. So
they work for me. Things to try:
- From within the game press 'v' to get the version. Mine is:
Windows NetHack tty Version 3.4.3 - last build Sun Dec 07 18:27:13 2003.
That's the version on a binary I downloaded from the official NetHack
web site. You can get it: <http://www.nethack.org/v343/downloads.html>
It doesn't get any more vanilla than that.
- From within a game of NetHack, type 'O '. That's a capital 'O'
followed by two spaces. The spaces will page down in the Options menu.
The bottom line of the menu at that point shows:
" n - autopickup exceptions (17 currently set)"
If you have that, then you have autopickup exceptions available. In
that case
- try adding an exception ingame.
- 'n ' from where you are
- 'a' to add an exception
- "<*dagger*" should work.
- If that works then try typing an AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION line manually
into your options file. (There may have been a bad copy/paste
interaction.)
If you don't have autopickup exceptions anywhere under the 'O'ptions
menu then try downloading the latest binary from nethack.org.
>
>Do you have to have a patch to use these?
No, but it may be compiled out. The NAO NetHack server for instance
doesn't have autopickup_exceptions compiled in. The sortloot patch is
compiled in, however, and makes up somewhat for the lack. It also has
autopickup compiled in. autopickup itself is good, just not great like
autopickup_exceptions.
If your version of the game doesn't have autopickup_exceptions
compiled in I'd recommend going straight to nethack.org.
>I thought you said it was available in vanilla nethack?
It works in the Windows binary I got from here:
<http://www.nethack.org/v343/downloads.html>
Sorry I got your hopes up
Jove
>Jove <inv...@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> You should now be able to access the weap1a-343.txt spoiler from the
>> "Advice and Spoiler" page on my website.
>
>You might want to edit the header details so that it's clear that it
>_is_ weap1a-343 rather than weap-343. (Just so that I don't get
>confused should someone mail me asking questions about your version of
>the spoiler...)
Done.
"weap1a-343.txt
This is a copy of Dylan O'Donnell's weap-343.txt spoiler enhanced
for missile weapons, by Jove."
If you want something more/better, just let me know.
rpresser
Jove wrote:
> Javelins stack. The stuff I posted even showed that. I also just
> confirmed that in wizmode. Perhaps you confused the Javelin weapon
> class with the javelin weapon?
I was the one who originally posted that javelins don't stack, for
which I now apologize. I was misled by the fact that (in normal or in
Explore mode) you can only wish for one javelin, while some other
stackables like darts boomerangs can be wished for in quantity. Now I
see that such is also true of spears and daggers -- you can only get
one per wish. Is the vanishability factor connected to the
wish-in-quantity factor? (Too lazy to look at the code right now)
Seraphim
@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Weird. I had no problem wishing for 3 daggers, or 10 javelins in wizmode
in 3.4.1.
Richard Bos
> "rpresser" <rpre...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1159794447.504444.195180
>
> > Jove wrote:
> >> Javelins stack. The stuff I posted even showed that. I also just
> >> confirmed that in wizmode. Perhaps you confused the Javelin weapon
> >> class with the javelin weapon?
> >
> > I was the one who originally posted that javelins don't stack, for
> > which I now apologize. I was misled by the fact that (in normal or in
> > Explore mode) you can only wish for one javelin, while some other
> > stackables like darts boomerangs can be wished for in quantity. Now I
> > see that such is also true of spears and daggers -- you can only get
> > one per wish. Is the vanishability factor connected to the
> > wish-in-quantity factor? (Too lazy to look at the code right now)
>
> Weird. I had no problem wishing for 3 daggers, or 10 javelins in wizmode
> in 3.4.1.
Yes, wishing is more generous in wizmode. It doesn't work in normal
explore mode, nor, TTBOMK, in normal play.
Richard
David Justiss
= On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 00:44:08 +0000 (UTC), David Justiss wrote:
=
= >"Jove" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
= >news:8suqh2ligb9e574s0...@4ax.com
= >
= >>
= >> Here's a general explanation of autopickup and
autopickup_exceptions,
= >> with examples:
= >> <http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/autopickup.txt>
= >
= >I looked at this and tried to use it, putting lines like these
= >AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*box*"
= >AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*bugle*"
= >AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION=">*chest*"
= > into my defaults.nh file, but it gave me a
= >'bad option line' error message.
=
= Those look exactly like the lines in my NetHack defaults.nh file.
So
= they work for me. Things to try:
=
= - From within the game press 'v' to get the version. Mine is:
=
= Windows NetHack tty Version 3.4.3 - last build Sun Dec 07 18:27:13
2003.
=
=
= That's the version on a binary I downloaded from the official
NetHack
= web site. You can get it:
<http://www.nethack.org/v343/downloads.html>
= It doesn't get any more vanilla than that.
=
huh, I thought I was using the newest version, but using the 'v'
command, it turns out I'm still playing 3.4.1. I guess it's time
to upgrade..
I wonder if there's a reason I didn't upgrade earlier. I'll check if
there's any noticable changes I might not have liked. I'll probably
upgrade anyway, can't be anything too bad..