NGG owners: does the switch to ROM 1.3 help?
Aron Boag
updating the software. I checked the WMS site, and it only documents
a few minor changes from 1.2, which I currently have installed. Does
the new ROM help Ripoff Multiball work better (i.e. Bud doesn't raise
up and stay up throughout?), and does it add much? Let me know.
Thanks, and it's good to be one of you! ;)
Aron (fast running out of games that he's dreamed about owning...but
he'll live with it)
metallik
down eventually.. Some other major bugs don't seem to be fixed either,
but I'd upgrade anyway if I were you... no telling what all *was* fixed
in the update.
KME
as the 100M cart attack shot, Double nothing skill shot, Nothing Qjackpot's.
To bad such a potentially good game went to waste.
--
~Keith Elwin
Webmaster: www.pinballreviews.com
www.areaamusements.com ~
"Aron Boag" <boa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2c276776.03053...@posting.google.com...
Ben
1.0 to 1.3. As of yet I haven't noticed anything really different but
I didn't play it long under 1.0. I did notice that Bud doesn't say
"Now go home" at the game start anymore, I think that was one of
things that got changed to make it more player friendly. One new
option I like is you can also set it so the ball doesn't come firing
down the middle at the start of modes other than "multiball".
Ben
fix for this could they? I know ROM updates get discussed here a lot
and the consensus is they typically aren't done like they were on TZ
and CV, but it would sure be nice.
Manic
uninterested in fixing them.
"Ben" <pinba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6q3kdv4sitnvsrf6p...@4ax.com...
Ben
Yancy Blaylock
> Even if there was a fundraiser?
That'll happen.
Whoops, there I go being sarcastic again. =)
Yancy
> > The programmer is aware of all the glitches and is
> > uninterested in fixing them.
> >
Manic
"Ben" <pinba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kafkdvg1cdgvkrs42...@4ax.com...
> Even if there was a fundraiser?
Not with this guy's attitude Ben... sorry. Not
like he's busy anymore either.
KME
> "Now go home" at the game start anymore, I think that was one of
> things that got changed to make it more player friendly. One new
> option I like is you can also set it so the ball doesn't come firing
> down the middle at the start of modes other than "multiball".
also "your dumber than bud!"
Aron Boag
> Thats the whole reason I got rid of mine. Numorous scoring bugs as well such
> as the 100M cart attack shot, Double nothing skill shot, Nothing Qjackpot's.
> To bad such a potentially good game went to waste.
That may be true, but it's not "unlivewithable".
I knew going in that the game has some buggy software, and yet I still
enjoy this game quite a bit. I find the multiball to be engaging, the
wizard mode to be *tons* of fun (even if the scoring isn't that high),
and the side trips (Dance Party, Speed Golf, Ripoff, etc.) to be
enjoyable, too. I can live with the fact that Ripoff isn't quite all
there. Besides, Ripoff is best used when in conjunction with another
multiball, so it makes for some interesting stacking possibilities,
and that's when the play really gets cool.
I'd hardly say that the game "went to waste", though. Is it my
favorite Lawlor game? "Not even by a mile!" ;) But it *is* one of
the finer games he's done, and would probably come in at #3 or #4 in
my list of Lawlor faves. I think, if anything, that they may have
tried to put *too* much stuff in the software, and thus the bugs were
a bit more difficult to track down and get rid of. It's pretty safe
to say that it's my personal favorite from Louis, though, followed by
Jack*Bot and Monopoly.
Think about it: great music, darned good to great (if a bit buggy)
software, *great* wizard mode, awesome voice work, good playfield
layout (8 shots, and the left side of the playfield is pretty
barren...), decent artwork...it's good stuff, Maynard. Will I have it
forever? Perhaps not, but I'm not getting rid of it any time soon,
and if I ever *do* get rid of it, it'll command a pretty high price,
or decent trade bait.
We're not talking about Theatre of Magic here, with such a deflating
climax that the game is forever loathed for that singular reason.
With even a half-decent wizard mode, ToM would have been ensconced in
the 9's. I still look forward to playing NGG. ToM is just too darned
easy, and unexciting.
Aron
Aron Boag
> "Ben" <pinba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:kafkdvg1cdgvkrs42...@4ax.com...
> > Even if there was a fundraiser?
>
> Not with this guy's attitude Ben... sorry. Not
> like he's busy anymore either.
Huh? What about Monopoly and Roller Coaster Tycoon? Those must have
kept him busy, along with whatever future project he's on right now.
Aron
metallik
> uninterested in fixing them.
A shame, considering out of all the 90's WMS games, this one needs fixed
the most. It's easily the buggiest pin I've ever played... how can you
get through what, three post-release revisions, and still have a major
feature (Quick Jackpot) completely broken? I know Louis was pressed for
time, but lets at least get the obvious bugs taken care of...
Manic
"Aron Boag" <boa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2c276776.03060...@posting.google.com...
Those were done long ago. I don't think PLD has a future
project at the moment.
>
>
> Aron
Louis Koziarz
> The programmer is aware of all the glitches and is
> uninterested in fixing them.
Back in February 2003, in the middle of that god-awful "who hates
Arabian and who doesn't" thread, I tried to explain that I cannot fix
NGG or any other of my Williams titles. I simply can't. It's a
direct legal liability to my company and, indirectly, Gary Stern's.
Until the day when the WMS intellectual property falls into friendly
hands, there is absolutely nothing I can do. The Twilight Zone and
Cirqus Voltaire home ROMs were created while Ted and Cameron were
still at Williams and can't be compared to the setup that would be
needed to modify a game today.
This is not a matter of "if I don't work on my current game instead of
fixing bugs the industry will die" as some alleged in the February
dust-up, nor is this a matter of me saying "people don't like my games
so I refuse to fix the bugs". This is a matter of "I'm not risking a
lawsuit to fix an old game".
Here's a true story: There was a time earlier this year when it looked
like another coin-op game company was inches away from buying the WMS
pinball patents and source code. You can be sure the first place
those buyers would have visited after the sale was complete was Stern
Pinball, asking to see if a single line of Williams code was on the
machines of Stern's pinball programmers. That's what *I* would have
done. It's how intensely competitive the game business is. One
single lawsuit could have meant serious trouble for a lot of us. I
simply refuse to take that risk or, even worse, put my business
partners in that boat without their knowledge. I wish I had the
legal, financial, or technical resources to circumvent that risk but I
don't. Nobody gets rich doing pinball these days.
I'm too tired to mix it up with Keith, Aron, "Manic", or anyone else
here. I'm certainly interested in fixing and supporting my old games
for the collectors and I truly TRULY wish I could do more for the
people that play and enjoy No Good Gofers or any of my other titles.
I honestly do.
Believe me, every time I get a letter or a handshake from someone
saying they enjoy the game there's nothing more I want to do than fire
up an editor and make the game ten times better than it is. On the
flip side, I don't begrudge people like Mr. Elwin that sell their
games because of bugs or design flaws. That's their right and I will
never attack that. That's not what this reply is about.
I'm simply writing one more time - one long well-thought-out time - to
explain why I can't fix it and why "Manic" is wrong in saying that I
don't care. I do. In the meantime I hold out that oh-so-miniscule
hope that WMS management figures the smart thing to do with the
pinball IP, but I'm not gonna bank on it.
Regards,
Louis Koziarz
P.S. to "Manic": *plonk*
MowerX
news:f615e4cd.03060...@posting.google.com...
>
> This is not a matter of "if I don't work on my current game instead of
> fixing bugs the industry will die" as some alleged in the February
> dust-up, nor is this a matter of me saying "people don't like my games
> so I refuse to fix the bugs". This is a matter of "I'm not risking a
> lawsuit to fix an old game".
Someone at Williams must be managing or at least responsible for the pinball
assets. Has anyone considered asking for written permission from Williams to
fix the firmware for certain games, in the spirit of Twilight Zone and
Cirqus Voltaire?
- MX
metallik
> like another coin-op game company was inches away from buying the WMS
> pinball patents and source code. You can be sure the first place
> those buyers would have visited after the sale was complete was Stern
> Pinball, asking to see if a single line of Williams code was on the
> machines of Stern's pinball programmers. That's what *I* would have
Unless they bought off the local police department along with those
patents and code, Stern would have no obligation to show them anything,
unless they sued out of the blue. Aren't there SLAPP laws to prevent
frivolous suits like that? Or would they pull a SCO... "We know you
stole our stuff but we're not telling anyone what it is!"
I'm glad to hear you are interested in fixing the game.. After that
last flamefest, I got the impression you indeed didn't care to fix it at
all (notwithstanding the obvious reasons why you *can't*). It's a very
fun machine... we still have out NIB one here and it's a keeper.. but
the bugs can definitly drive you nuts at times...
Any chance a current WMS employee could tinker with the code any? Or
have they all left by now? Not that working on someone else's code is
something I figure they'd want to do.. it's sometimes hard enough to go
back to your OWN code after a while :)
Manic
answering the guys here - I know you read all the
messages here (but are too "cool" to acknowledge it)
and have to be yanked out of lurking by my comments.
I knew I'd get you out to explain yourself to the
interested parties here...
P.S. That earlier thread was simply some people talking
about a game until you stormed in with the snide comments.
"Louis Koziarz" <koz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f615e4cd.03060...@posting.google.com...
Kirb
people get so involved in the hobby that they can't see what is really
going on.
Thanks for the thread killer.
Kirb
Kirb
the chips and I'll burn 'em.
Kirb
boa...@comcast.net (Aron Boag) wrote in message news:<2c276776.03053...@posting.google.com>...
David Gersic
>> The programmer is aware of all the glitches and is
>> uninterested in fixing them.
>
> A shame, considering out of all the 90's WMS games, this one needs fixed
> the most.
Maybe so, but how many old jobs do you go back to and work at for free?
--
| David Gersic dgersic_@_niu.edu |
| He's about as sharp as a marble. |
| Email address is munged to avoid spammers. Remove the underscores. |
Tony
appliance bulb : }
"Manic" <manicmu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UTBCa.28998$Pb....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Fossmin
Wouldn't it be a shame if an updated rom mysteriously got posted on
the web somewhere. Hint, hint.
Gerry
J. Weaver Jr.
>
> Maybe so, but how many old jobs do you go back to and work at for free?
Maybe so, but how many software jobs allow you to walk away from knwon
major bugs before the production run is finished? Or, allow you to start
a _new_ production run months later of code with known fatal flaws? -JW
Manic
qualifies... I can live with it. And at least you said "sometimes"
;-) I think you let me off too easy.
Look he and I won't be exchanging Xmas cards anyways so I
thought it would be nice if the guys had their question answered.
The issue comes up all the time and rarely gets an answer.
"Tony" <ton...@att.net> wrote in message
news:aiYCa.184767$ja4.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Manic
anonymously posted years ago with a line of code to have
Bud sit his butt down during multi-ball and the jackpot fixed.
This is one way you please your "fans" without problems...
There are other ROM's floating around that have small but
significant fixes and the world has not come to a halt
(and I'm not talking about profanity versions).
Just a thought...
"J. Weaver Jr." <jw...@poSPAMSUCKSbox.com> wrote in message
news:3EDCC169...@poSPAMSUCKSbox.com...
Kirb
I know what you are getting at. Maybe you will understand what he is trying to say.
Kirb
Fos...@aol.com (Fossmin) wrote in message news:<2eb3d0fa.03060...@posting.google.com>...
GAPinhead
Being a coder presently, there are projects that we have done, that certain
features do not currently work. Would I fix them for free if I no longer did
my job, no. Of course I do not do code for pinball either!!!!
"J. Weaver Jr." wrote:
--
John!
"I'm a Georgia Pinhead"
*remove SPAMTHIS to email*
David Gersic
> On 6/3/03 2:46 AM, David Gersic wrote:
>>
>
> major bugs before the production run is finished?
Major bugs? You're not looking at this the right way here. It's a coin op
amusement device, not medical equipment. It has some minor bugs, but
nothing major. It doesn't refuse to take coins, injur the player, catch
fire, or otherwise physically destroy any part of the machine or the
building it's located in. Those would be major bugs. Williams didn't care
if there were some minor flaws only noticed by a handful of people.
Anyway, it sounds like Louis would actually like to do this, but can't.
> Or, allow you to start
> a _new_ production run months later of code with known fatal flaws? -JW
More accurately: require you to get on with doing something new, rather
than puttering around fixing a few minor glitches in stuff that already
shipped.
--
| David Gersic dgersic_@_niu.edu |
| Practice random acts of intelligence & senseless acts of self-control. |
J. Weaver Jr.
> On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 15:41:02 GMT, J. Weaver Jr. <jw...@poSPAMSUCKSbox.com> wrote:
>> Or, allow you to start
>> a _new_ production run months later of code with known fatal flaws? -JW
>
> More accurately: require you to get on with doing something new, rather
> than puttering around fixing a few minor glitches in stuff that already
> shipped.
<shrug> I guess I'm just jealous; most of my time in the gaming industry
was spent writiing online games, where the "writing" was _never_ done,
and no known repeatable bug (at least in _my_ code) was ever left unfixed.
For as much as I always dreamed of writing pinball code for a living,
I'm beginning to believe that the "it's shipping, so who cares if it
actually works" mindset would have made me _very_ unhappy with my job.
And, having a new production run start of known bad code with my name
attached to it... <shudder> -JW
Pete Hoerber
himself anyway! Sounds like a job for IJ_ROMMOD!
Although debugging NGG's problems is a tad bit more challenging than
removing some voice calls ;p
PSH
Fos...@aol.com (Fossmin) wrote in message news:<2eb3d0fa.03060...@posting.google.com>...