Halifaxpinball and the Fathom project.
Fantastic Pinball
did NOT make the Fathom playfield. CPR has never made any playfield.
CPR is comprised of Mike Purcell who did work on the Fathom playfield and
was paid to do so. Mike has excellent experience that he brings to this new
company, but CPR is not the company that made Fathom playfields.
Kevin has never made a playfield and should cease and desist his attempt to
claim credit for the Fathom project and should stop immediately any attempt
to claim ownership of the company that made the Fathom playfield. Nor should
Kevin make any reference to the project that he was not involved in.
HalifaxPinball, the company that made the Fathom playfield, did change it's
name to Fantastic Pinball due to the legalities of another company
registered as "The Halifax Pinball Company"
The company that made the Fathom playfield is still here and still in
operation.
The statement by Kevin that Greg Walker would never make another playfield
is completely false because I am making playfields as I have all the
resources to do so, and an agreement to continue just as I have been since I
finished Fathom.
Yes, it is true that I choose not to involve Mike Purcell in the future
projects due to the conflict it caused between us. I thought our friendship
would be better if I did not have him involved, but I never stopped
developing playfield reproduction. Mike did not like all of the decisions I
made during the making of Fathom and I did not like the comments that he
made to me and other people.
Playfield construction has begun and I will likely run several titles. I
might even run Centaur since this was the title that I was working on
directly after Fathom. The only reason CPR chose this title is that Mike
knew I was working on it and they wanted to spoil my efforts. The petty
efforts to blame problems with Fathom on me, and give Mike credit for
everything else is a load of crap.
I wish CPR all the best in their efforts. Mike is experienced in gluing in
inserts and putting playfields into boxes, and he can well advertise that he
worked on Fathom to gain that experience, but Classic Playfield Reproduction
is NOT the company that made the Fathom playfield and Kevin Wayte had no
association to that project in any way shape or form.
Greg Walker
Fantastic Pinball. (Formerly known as Halifaxpinball)
flibbleflips
Hutchins currently make me a brand new Fathom with repro playfield from
GREG WALKER, repro backglass, repro posts, caps, drops, plastics, and
even a repro cabinet from Chris Munson and Big Time Cabinets. Oh, I
forgot to mention all of the new boards, etc. The only thing I need to
do is to build the 2nd one with all of the original parts. THANKS
AGAIN FOR MAKING THE REPRO FATHOM PLAYFIELD! BEAUTIFUL WORK!
P.S. I love the part about gluing in inserts and stuffing boxes. You
forgot sticking on the "this end up" labels - ha ha.
Virt U Al
If I am following you - and I think I am - you are saying that Classic
Pinball Reproductions didn't make the Fathom playfield.
Did I get that right...?
I'm not sure why it's important. But it sounds like it must be. So I
just want to be absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt,
accurately, certainly, positive that I am right when I saw that CPR
made the Fathom playfield.
Or did I get that wrong...?
;-)
sa...@mrpinball.com.au
GA Pinhead
John!
CornCob
wasn't enough to have F@H being remade twice by two different
manufacturers; now it maybe Centaur.
Is the demand really there?
BTW: I loved your pictures and updates of the Fathom project as it
developed. If there were any problems, then they are over shadowed by
the finished product. I still look at the pictures when I'm in the
mood.
Ping
pin_w...@hotmail.com
For the record, I do not have a financial or any other interest for my
own benefit in either Fantastic Pinball or Classic Pinball
Reproductions
and the following reflect my opinions on an open forum . . .
No you didn't get it wrong, CPR DID NOT make the Fathom playfield, Greg
Walker (then HalifaxPinball) did. CPR came into being after Fathom was
made. Goggle will confirmm that. Fathom was Greg Walker's project and
had been for approx. two years. - google again will confirm the
timeline.
This is important if you believe in credibility. As Greg confirmed in
his earlier email in this thread, "Mike is experienced in gluing in
inserts and putting playfields into boxes, and he can well advertise
that he worked on Fathom to gain that experience."
Additionally, I know Greg has worked on re-making Centaur for quite
some time. Mike Purcell has undoubtedly known this as well. Assuming
Mike did indeed know this (Greg Walker would have to confirm when he
knew this), why would Mike Purcell choose to re-make Centaur first?
Fathom is a testimony to Greg Walker's (now Fantastic Pinball)
first playfield, now owned by approx. 100 Fathom owners.
How many people have a CPR playfield?
Al
jnhutch
but,, If they keep making the same playfields as the competition, they will
both be out of business real soon. Go to CPR, look at the demand, and pick
the next on the list and make it..
One thing that interests me though,, is seeing who is better, Wayne or
Illinois,,,,,
"CornCob" <ping....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1128260433.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Chris Redinger
If 2 companies make the same product.
A) One might be cheaper.
B) One might be better
C) The one that is cheaper & better is the one who will come out on
top.
That is good for the consumer.
On 2 Oct 2005 06:40:33 -0700, "CornCob" <ping....@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
grea...@hotmail.com
insane. There are alot of other playfields that need to be remade. I
can think of one right away: AFM! Am I the only one that sees what the
NOS examples are going for? What about IJ? There's another game that
often has insert wear. How about some of the popular Sys. 11s?
Whirlwind, Banzai Run, Earthshaker, etc. And the list could go on and
on. I just don't get this. 2 companies making Funhouse, now 2 companies
making Centaur. Strange.
Duane
Vic Ireland
In the pinball market where aftermarket success is measured in a
hundred or hundreds, there's no guarantee the better board will come
out on top, only the setup with deeper pockets.
Diluting the already small market with two of the same repro is
insane. Period. There are a LOT of upfront costs to do even a single
project. You can't duplicate efforts for long and expect to be
anything more than a line-item tax loss.
On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:05:05 -0400, Chris Redinger <nos...@sss.com>
wrote:
cch...@comcast.net
gpc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I thought I was responsible for all the problems in this hobby?
>
You credit yourself much too much. You are only responsible for most of
the aggrivation on this newsgroup. That's it.
> That's what Kirb will tell you
>
No, Kirb will tell us you are a worm of a human.
> It's amazing that you guys (copying playfields-FH and Centaur) are more
> concerned with your hate for each other than producing stuff that will
> sell
>
Once again you superimpose your delusions on reality. In business,
first to market wins. If you can beat your competition to the puch,
they go away and you continue.
> Let's just clear the air ... There is a ton of hate in this hobby
>
And it all resides inside your incredibly shrunken cranium.
> Greg hates Mike ... Gene hates Wayne ... Kirb hates me ...
>
It's always about YOU isn't it.
> OK, fine ... everybody hates everybody
>
Untrue.
> Now can each company go out and build seperate products so the 500
> different games that need playfields can be addressed?
>
WHAT?!? FIVE HUNDRED?!? LOL!!! Please list these 500 games that people
are lined up waiting for fields for. I'll make it even easier, try 100.
You have got to be delusional.
> not just a couple ....
>
> We need two different companies doing Funhouse and Centaur like we need
> bullet holes in our heads
>
I agree you would benefit from a few bullet holes in your head.
> yikkkkeesss
>
Indeed.
-cody
CARGPB#4
> Gary/Arizona
sc...@farrar.com
I don't know GregW (other than status emails swapped during the Fathom
project) and I don't know MikeP.
The facts are that w/o the success of the Fathom PF repros we would not
be having this conversation today. The success of that product has but
this hobby industry in a position that repro PFs instead of overlays
are now being made.
To give GregW his props - he WAS the driving force behind the Fathom PF
repro. If you go back through Google you'll see at least a year or
perhaps 2 or 3 before the Fathom Repro was made that Greg was making
the color seperation by hand within Adobe in a "dream" of making a
Fathom overlay and a wild ass dream of making a PF repro.
GregW succeeded his wildest dreams (how many of us can say that?) -
almost a 100 of us have benefited from GregW's success (another rare
thing in today's world). The cost of GregW's success (there is always
a price to be paid) is time, effort, stress, and a lost friendship
(which are few and priceless).
Events in time can always be traced back to a flashpoint, a person,
that causes history to take a different path - GregW was and should
always be regarded as that flashpoint with the Fathom Repro project,
regardless of what happens in the near and long term future.
My hopes is that there will be no "repeat" of PF repros by these two
companies as there are PLEANTY of PFs that need to be reproed - but
companies can be successful w/o taking each other down durng the
process. History has shown us that hatred and malice are not the
optimal method for operating a business - customer satisfation is.
Good luck to BOTH gentlemen and their compaines - I hope they BOTH
succeed. I just want to make sure all of you know and understand why
we are lucky enough to be having this discussion on Repro PFs to begin
with.
Later
GA Pinhead
read the whole story, not just what you deem worthy of saving.
And if we have boring lives, yours must be worse, you sit around writing
spew.
John!
Attention Whore wrote:
> These guys who have to respond to every word I print must have very
> boring lives
>
> Gary/Never Never Land
>
GA Pinhead
John!
Attention Whore wrote:
> Georgia Pin:
>
> Why didn't you pick up the phone and negotiate with WMS?
>
Because I didn't want to.
> You could have been the man to save the hobby
>
I'll leave that to you.
> You could have worked the deal
>
Maybe I am smarter than that.
> You could have been the guy doing the remakes inside the USA
>
Maybe.
> .............. what makes me think that you couldn't finance the
> purchase of a pet Gold Fish at the local Walmart pet department
>
Gee, I don't know, because you are an idiot? We all know how rich you
are and how you can piss away money on pins you never play. I'll post my
tax return if you do.
Why do you keep responding to us?
John!
> Gary/Arizona
>
Bally Tim
companies the BEST of success!
I think Mike and/or Kevin said once they get rollin' that they would be
able to turn out 3 to 4 playfields a year. Wouldn't that be GREAT if
they both utilized the "MOST WANTED" list and each company worked every
other title going down the list. If Greg was able to put out 3 or 4 a
year, we'd be seeing 6 to 8 repros a year. MAN! That would be
wonderfull!
Like you said, there ARE plenty of playfields needing repro'd.
gpc...@yahoo.com
I am soooo far from being rich
but whatever ....
you have nice games and that makes you "rich"
sheeesssh
Gary/Arizona
Fred Kemper
They will all suffer, and so shall we...
--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************
"Chris Redinger" <nos...@sss.com> wrote
Neil
not your employee and from what I saw firsthand he was the driving force in
getting it through most of it's stages. Some of that is no fault of your own
being in the navy and being at sea restricts your input but don't confuse
these people on RPG into thinking it was you who did it. From what I saw you
were primarily the mouth piece in the news groups giving updates and
collecting money rather then working on the project. Initially you were
around and doing your part but for 3/4 of it you were MIA. Mike although not
vocal in the NG is far from a packer/insert gluer that Greg is making him
out to be. Hell Greg you couldn't even be bothered to pack any of the
playfields up you already had your money. As I recall you were out on a cub
scout outing rather then working on this which people were patiently waiting
for.( out of curiosity why is a middle age man with no kids teaching cubs
for anyway?)
Listen guys I have no affiliation with either of these groups. I considered
them friends until the shit slinging and BS started. (I'm a Halifax
collector myself). Mike and Kevin are more then capable of producing a
playfield. They have the knowledge, equipment and the expertise to handle
this. Mike was a huge part of Halifax Pinball during the Fathom project but
has chose not to continue doing business with Greg for some very justifiable
reason in my opinion.
PS: Greg why wish them luck you threaten to sue them 3 times already. I've
read the emails.I thought you were a collector in this for the love of the
game of pin. It would appear you are more interested in lining your pockets
and I know of no quicker way to lose friend then screwing them over for a
buck.
"Fantastic Pinball" <FantasticPi...@NOSPAMmsn.com> wrote in message
news:RZP%e.99702$Ph4.3...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
Fred Kemper
This is also why the replacement circuit board
business is doomed. Only "cheap" products
will endure in this case.
New projects will not be introduced because
of the *competition*, for example.
--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************
"Vic Ireland" <vicNOS*P*A*Mire...@mindspring.com> wrote
Cliffy
jump in? You'll never answer the question though, you never do. Better
yet, take some of that big time cash and go buy some character, maybe a
little education while your at it. All you really are is a monday
morning armchair quarterback.
gpc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Georgia Pin:
>
> Why didn't you pick up the phone and negotiate with WMS?
>
> You could have been the man to save the hobby
>
> You could have worked the deal
>
> You could have been the guy doing the remakes inside the USA
>
> ............. what makes me think that you couldn't finance the
> purchase of a pet Gold Fish at the local Walmart pet department
>
> Gary/Arizona
>
--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
GA Pinhead
much money you have in the pins you rarely play.
I also have nice games, which *I* actually play. So I too am rich. But
according to you, I can not finance a goldfish. Please make up your
mind. As far as riches go, I'll put my debt/asset ratio against yours
anyday.
Any other personal insults you have for me?
John!
Cliffy
--
Fantastic Pinball
which Mike submitted a reciept to have me pay your wages. The rest of it you
have seen has been what Mike has told you. I was not at all MIA except for
the packaging and shipping for which I was actually at sea doing my job.
As far as my community involvement as a scout leader and a volunteer
firefighter, what are you trying to imply? My next door neighbours kid
wanted to join scouts and they didn't have enough leaders so I pitched in to
help. That is the kind of guy I am. As far as not hanging out at Mike's
place to glue inserts, I was not comfortable with being there anymore.
Mike may have told you many things but don't be fooled. If I am to believe
everyting that Mike says then you yourself would be in jail Neil. He did
work on the project but he did not own the company. He did put many hours
into the work but he was paid a rediculous amount of money to do so. I'm not
denying his involment, but the company who made the Fathom playfield was
solely owned and operated by Greg Walker and Greg Walker alone.
As far as the 3 lawsuit threats, I have only emailed to Kevin one time in
the past 6 months. That email was a requests for Kevin to stop claiming
ownership of my company, and a request for him to stop taking credit for
work that he had no part in.
Greg
"Neil" <neil_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LgU%e.322999$on1.157974@clgrps13...
miracleman
a public forum.
This kind of stuff has kept me from buying from some people in the
past.
LET THE PRODUCTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES!
(and the quality of those speak for the talent of the people who made
them)
greatw...@hotmail.com
situation. I have known Mike from the start of his going from one
machine to many (Time Warp). I know Greg mainly from when he started
the Fathom project. I wish everyone success, the same as I would wish
for my minor project. I was wise not to involve myself in this venture,
for the record I wasn't asked, but for some of us we had the same sort
of friendship, bigger plans to do things together, which probably would
have resulted in parting of friends. I wish there could be some sort of
gentleman's agreement for producing new playfields, but we live in a
world where choice is good. Who want's to buy from only one
manufacturer, of one good, food for thought. If I make a piece of crap,
or you don't like the way it is made or done, that's fine. But please
allow people the freedom to make their own choice, ultimately they will
decide with their own money, if they are offered a choice.
Chris Redinger
Neil
worked with his wife for years in the same department and I'm close friends
with them to this dayI very rarely saw you there. I think I saw the
neigbour's kid working more then you on the playfield truth be told. The
inserts were the most labour intensive part that you guys had to tackled.
The playfields were cut by a carpenter and the silkscreening was done under
contract from a third party. As far as your comfort that doesn't come into
it. You accepted payment and commited to doing a job it was expected you do
it. Most of us don't like our 9-5 gig but we do it anyway.Incidently Mike
paid me out of his own pocket, seeing as you took all the payments and were
the spokes person it is only natural that you ended up paying for it. You
had all the cash. You were partners on this endevour. Hell Halifax Pinball
isn't even your company it is registered to Dave thus the reason you changed
your name Fantastic Pinball.
That being said my point is Mike as a 50% partner has every right to use the
experience he took from the fathom project and build a new company using
that knowledge. You have no right to down play Mike's involvement or demand
they not say he was a part of it. Kevin wasn't involved in fathom nor has he
claimed to be but Mike was thus if potential buyer want to know what to
expect from CPR they only have to look as far as fathom as an example.As for
implying anything, I really think you should have been finishing the
playfield you had accepted payment for rather babysitting someone else kids
on an outing. If it was your own kids I might consider that obligation but
as you and your wife don't have any your time would have been better spent
on the activities you were paid to do rather then volunteer work.
I got nothing against you Greg . What I don't understand is the threats and
bashing. I applaud anyone who takes the time to build a product for a hobby
they love. Hell I've bought from a few people on this group and found this
community to be amazingly helpful. Stuff like this reminds me of elementary
school antics with the kid who doesn't like to share. Anyone who has been
around knows Mike. He had the ftp manual site for years.He'd give you the
shirt of his back and as far as pinball goes I haven't met a nicer guy in it
when it comes to help and support. I've seen the emails that went through
and Mike wasn't the only one telling me the "story" as you call it. So how
about you cut the BS and build your playfield. CPR will build their's and
we'll let the community decide what they think. The more people we have
producing quality product only benefits us all.
PS. he wasn't lying about the jail possiblility but the case was thrown out
and the settlement has allowed me to not have work this year and start my
own business.:)
"Fantastic Pinball" <FantasticPi...@NOSPAMmsn.com> wrote in message
news:8VU%e.99860$Ph4.3...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
gpc...@yahoo.com
Nobody cares about you ...
Nobody gives two craps about your in-fighting
Fathom is history ... it's over ... we could all care less
in the future:
produce a good product and people will buy it
produce nothing and no one buys anything
both produce the same product and put each other out of business
IMHO
Gary/Arizona
greatw...@hotmail.com
post, or his problems. I think everyone has been srewed over one way or
the other over the years, threats of going to court, I have been sued
in my past Swimming Pool Business in the 80's & declared personal
bankruptcy back in mid 90's over this, has nothing to do with character
& integrity, bad business deals happen. I would like to say that all
the guys, I have met in my City, are good guys, & wish that the mud
slinging & trashing would end.
azarca...@cox.net
Neil wrote:
As I recall you were out on a cub
> scout outing rather then working on this which people were patiently waiting
> for.( out of curiosity why is a middle age man with no kids teaching cubs
> for anyway?)
>
Neil that is about as low as one can get. You should be ashamed of
yourself for that comment. It has nothing to do with Fahom or
playfields anyways. Get a life.
Im not a part of this situation. But I will say Greg is one of the good
guys in here. In my conversations with him he has been forthright.
I wish you the best in making playfields. I hope you put out a better
product that Wayne. If you do, then I'll be sure to buy many of them.
Cliffy
not speak for the rest of us! please!
--
chuck
29. gpct...@yahoo.com Oct 2, 3:05 pm show options
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: gpct...@yahoo.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 2 Oct 2005 12:05:27 -0700
Local: Sun, Oct 2 2005 3:05 pm
Subject: Re: Halifaxpinball and the Fathom project.
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original | Report Abuse
in the future:
IMHO
Gary/Arizona
---------------------------------------------------
Gary, logic does defy you doesnt it. On one hand, you champion someone
who has yet to create anything for pinball, yet you harass someone who
actually invested their hard earned cash and time and created a
finished product. A product that no one else has done (well) to date,
a re-issue playfield. This, again, just goes to prove that you are not
here to help this hobby in any way.
Let me give you a tip...
Stop posting this garbage, your child will read it one day...
Neil
finishing the job not go camping. I applaud volunteer work, have done a bit
of it in my day but if you have a monetary commitment you have to prioritize
what needs to get done.
John thx. I won my fight though so I really don't care if that is what he
chooses to air. Not relevant to pinball but not unexpected from him either.
As a friend to all of them I appeal to his better nature to just let it go
and build a quality product. Nobody gains anything from the mud slinging. If
anything it only hurts their business not enhance it.
<azarca...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1128281248.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
rwi...@advantexmail.net
of a computer retouching the artwork for the Fathom playfield. This was
no easy task and it takes loads of experience to do, I wouldn't even
compare that to gluing inserts. Anybody can glue an insert.
Rich Wiski
Mike Purcell
Its a sad day for pinball that I even have to post here on this topic. I was
hoping that you would just mind your own business and go ahead and make some
PFs, Lord knows we all need them. What we don't need is someone maliciously
airing their dirty laundry here online. However.....
You are right on the point that CPR has not made a PF, the company is newly
formed and Centaur will be its first project. However HalifaxPinball never
made one either as that company belongs solely to a buddy of mine who had
nothing to do with Fathom.
You and I however did make one. Greg and Mike made Fathom as partners, now
you are trying to dismiss me as a mere employee. You know that is blantant
lie. You have no more, in fact I'd say less right to claim you made Fathom
that I do. I put more than 400 hrs into Fathom, you put well less than half
that amount. The PFs were made in my buddies basement but mostly in my
gamesroom. In fact I don't think one ever even went to your house. When the
Fathom project came to an end we divided all the profits 50/50. You never
paid me one red cent. Of course that was after you tried to cheat me by
padding the misc expenses by nearly 8K! I have proof of this! You were
merely the very public mouth piece for the project, I tried my best to stay
out of the public eye as I was busy actually making PFs while you were
constantly beaking off online. In fact anything you did on your own was a
disaster. I warned you not to use Paypal and not to take prepayements as we
didn't need these to complete the project. But you ignored my warnings and
had the whole song and dance with Paypal because if it.
Kevin did not have anything to do with Fathom, however he is a true
collector who has a great passion for pinball. He is a color specialist with
Xerox and has excellect connections in the field. But most of all, he's
honest and hard working ...... things severly lacking in my last partner. I
have to say that after working with you on Fathom I was finished with PFs as
you had soured all interest in them for me. You took what was supposed to be
a fun project that might or might not have made a few bucks and turned it
into a nightmare for me and my family . Kevin has a different focus
entirely, one where we aren't out for the quick buck but are there for the
pinball community as a whole. Our idea is to help out the community, make
PFs and have some fun along the way. We want to be able to eventually break
even on very short runs which means that all our dear old pins will have a
new lease on life. Your approach is to cherry pick the most sellable and to
contract the whole works out. Yes, in the short term you'll line your
pockets but very quickly you'll run out of titles that can sell 100 units
and you'll have to just stop making them as the costs will be prohibitive to
go much below that threshold. We however will be there still turning out PFs
with titles that sell only a few dozen at most. We won't get rich but the
PFs will be made and the pinball community will be richer for it!
As fo my involvment with Fathom... it started with you hopelessly mired in
self doubt and not making much of anything. You did have a nice looking
unfinished ill fitting computer copy of the artwork, that's it. And I paid
you handsomely for it! When I became your partner, I did most everything
while you were the very public mouthpiece feeding bullshit to the newsgroup
on nearly a daily basis. I got us plastics, screeners, clear coaters,
packaging, shipper etc.... In fact other than putting some dimples in some
plywood, a task which you amply bragged about online over and over, you did
very little after that! I had a hell of a time even getting you to show up
to the screeners to even check on the pfs after the first few were printed!
I gave up at one point trying to get you to help with touchups etc and when
problems arose with the screening you simply did not care. You flatly
refused to even inspect a single one of these PF before they were cleared.
This would have been the time to easily fix any problems we had. I think if
you had showed even a passing interest in the final quality I would have
done even more but by that time I had had more than enough of your long list
of excuses for being absent and was as sick of your lack of commintment to
the projest as I was of having to do all the work.
The problem as I saw it was you were so busy with extra activities you just
didn't have time for Fathom. While I was taking sick time, vacation time and
days off to get this project finished you were busy doing anything but
helping. You appointed yourself Pinball World Police and set about causing
lots of trouble for anyone selling unlicesnsed artwork or parts, you bragged
to the locals here that you had shut down many guys selling artwork on
Ebay... and for what? You weren't getting a red cent for it! I had to laugh
when you attempted to fleece poor Vic Ireland who did the Shadow plastics.
Poor guy gets word from you stating that IPB wanted a 20 % cut of his Shadow
run. Ten percent for IPB and 10% for you, to be paid directly to you. And
man you were so pissed when Vic went directly to Gene and cut you out, and
then only had to pay 10%. You were so mad, I couldn't understand that at
all, you had NO right whatsoever to do that and then get pissed off when it
failed! That was dishonest at best and probably not even legal. But...... It
is so representive of what you stand for.
We chose Centaur for a very good reason. Believe it or not not everything
done in the pinball worl concerns you In fact that choice had nothing to do
with you. We are starting out with our own silk screening and devoloping
gear it was important to to use a PF that was popular but it was essential
that the color layers be kept down till we develop the expertise on our
gear. Centaur fit the bill perfectly. Besides when we were down to examine
the artwork at IPB we were told you were gonna make 8 Ball Deluxe and your
pile of artwork was sitting right beside ours! I bet its still there cause
you are so busy trying to sabotage our little venture that you havn't even
bothered to pick up the artwork! You don't seem to really want to make a PF
and worse you don't seem to want anyone else to make one either.
You have been stiring up trouble behind the scenes with Wayne and IPB trying
your very best to have our contract with IPB cancelled. You have lied to
them, have threatened us through them, have spread lies and started
rumors.All of your claims are false and in fact many of these could be
actionable in court! You even stooped so low as to have threatened our
woodworker! For the love of God, get over this and make a PF! We all just
want PFs we don't want or need this crap.
Our focus is less on the money and more on the aspect of making a quality
product that we as collectors will be proud of.
Mike Purcell
Classic Playfiled Reproductions
Dr. Dave
DR
Dr. Dave
ass...
DR
Rob G
continually just to
make yourself look like a rose among thorns.
Rob
"Mike Purcell" <MPur...@nospamhfx.eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:OwY%e.323215$on1.81464@clgrps13...
> Greg;
>
> Its a sad day for pinball.......
ASM
<...rest snipped...>
Well apparently you've not been to Halifax, Gary, because speaking as
a former local, the community there does care about them. And judging
by RGP's vocal anticipation for the potential upcoming PFs from both
parties, people outside of Halifax care as well.
ASM
---
kirb
cch...@comcast.net wrote:
> gpc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I thought I was responsible for all the problems in this hobby?
> >
>
> You credit yourself much too much. You are only responsible for most of
> the aggrivation on this newsgroup. That's it.
>
> > That's what Kirb will tell you
> >
>
> No, Kirb will tell us you are a worm of a human.
How did I get dragged into this thread? I do agree with Cody, however.
Gary isn't able to do anything except trying to stir up trouble by
posting some of the dumbest crap ever to hit a newsgroup this side of a
racist forum.
> > It's amazing that you guys (copying playfields-FH and Centaur) are more
> > concerned with your hate for each other than producing stuff that will
> > sell
> >
>
> Once again you superimpose your delusions on reality. In business,
> first to market wins. If you can beat your competition to the puch,
> they go away and you continue.
>
> > Let's just clear the air ... There is a ton of hate in this hobby
> >
>
> And it all resides inside your incredibly shrunken cranium.
>
> > Greg hates Mike ... Gene hates Wayne ... Kirb hates me ...
> >
>
> It's always about YOU isn't it.
It's either about HIM or his MONEY. That's all he thinks of. I don't
hate anyone, even this jerkoff. I only think he is a waste of his mom's
time having to wait 9 months to hatch this tool.
> > OK, fine ... everybody hates everybody
> >
>
> Untrue.
He doesn't have any friends, so he has no idea.
....much useless gary guesses deleted.
Kirb
kirb
why do all of your posts revolve around money? When are you going to
understand that NO ONE CARES ABOUT OTHER'S MONEY HERE.
Kirb
Mike Purcell
You are right on the point that CPR has not made a PF, the company is newly
formed and Centaur will be its first project.
lie. While making Fathom was your idea, you have no more right to claim you made Fathom
gamesroom. I don't think one ever even went to your house for anything! When the
Fathom project came to an end we divided all the profits 50/50. You were the very public mouth piece for the project, I tried my best to stay
constantly beaking off online.
Kevin did not work on Fathom, however he is a true
honest and hard working. I have to say that after working with you on Fathom I was finished with PFs as
a fun project that might or might not have made a few bucks and turned it
into a nightmare for me and my family . Kevin has a different focus
entirely, one where we aren't out for the quick buck but are there for the
pinball community as a whole. Our idea is to help out the community, make
PFs and have some fun along the way. We want to be able to eventually break
even on very short runs which means that all our dear old pins will have a
go much below that threshold most less valuable PFs just won't get made by you. We however will be there still turning out PFs
PFs will be made and the pinball community will be richer for it!
unfinished ill fitting computer copy of the artwork, that's it. When I became your partner, I went to work getting sources and driving the project forward. I got plastics, screeners, clear coaters,
packaging, shipper. The bulk of the work was done by either Scott or myself here in my gamesroom. Saying all I did was glue in some inserts and pack a few boxes is like saying all you did was dimple a few PFs. A task which you amply bragged about online over and over. You had a great deal of zeal for the project at first but that dwindled to almost a complete lack of interest in the end. I had a hell of a time getting you to show up to the screeners to even check on the pfs after the first few were printed!
problems arose with the screening you simply did not care. You flatly
you had showed even a passing interest in the final quality I would have
of excuses for being absent, and was as sick of your lack of commitment to
the project as I was of having to do all the work. And all this took place before you even went to sea!
CPR chose Centaur for very good reasons. Believe it or not not everything
done in the pinball world revolves around you. We are starting out with our own silk screening and developing
gear it was important to use a PF that was popular. But it was essential
the artwork at IPB we were asked if we minded you making 8 Ball Deluxe and your
You have been stirring up trouble behind the scenes with Wayne and IPB trying
them, have threatened us through them, have spread lies and started
rumors.All of your claims are false and in fact many of these could be
actionable in court! You even stooped so low as to have threatened our
woodworker! For the love of God, get over this and make a PF! We all just
want PFs we don't want or need this crap.
Fantastic Pinball
post either. However your friend Kevin has made so many references to me,
the Fathom project, and to my company, that I had no choice. For that
matter, your constant string of bull is pissing me off.
> You are right on the point that CPR has not made a PF, the company is
> newly formed and Centaur will be its first project.
Fact. No argument.
>However HalifaxPinball never made one either as that company belongs solely
>to a buddy of mine who had nothing to do with Fathom.
Not a fact. The company I own and operate was working under the name
HalifaxPinball. That was changed to Fantastic Pinball. It was not changed to
CPR as you have tried to suggest. This is a small point and I don't see why
you think it such an issue. I have never denied your work on the project,
just your ownership of the company itself. Why make a fuss over that?
> You and I however did make one. Greg and Mike made Fathom as partners, now
> you are trying to dismiss me as a mere employee. You know that is blantant
> lie. You have no more, in fact I'd say less right to claim you made Fathom
> that I do. I put more than 400 hrs into Fathom, you put well less than
> half that amount.
Well Mike, I never considered you more than contracted help. If it took you
400 hour to do that tast that you were given then you were the slowest
contractor I can ever imagine. Even if you did put in 400 hours, that means
I paid you over $45 an hour! In reality your numbers are grossly inflated.
But really, who cares?As far as the number of hours I put into it, you have
no idea. The administration of the company, arranging the deal with Gene,
arranging the inserts, artwork, printing, wood, cutting, and every other
administrative aspect of the deal was done by me, with the exception of the
boxing of the finished product. That being said, I'm not arguing your work
on the project. I'm arguing Kevin's work on the project. I'm also saying
that CPR is not the company that made the playfield. I'm giving you full
credit for what work you did on Fathom. I'm really sorry you thought I was
ever considering ripping you off. I wasn't. I think you have some real
paranoia problems because I never had any intention of shorting you out of
anything.
>The PFs were made in my buddies basement but mostly in my
> gamesroom. In fact I don't think one ever even went to your house.
Well refering to the carpenter that I hired, and later introduced you to,
yes that is where they were cut. I know I spent many many hours over there.
You didn't see that because YOU were not around.
>When the Fathom project came to an end we divided all the profits 50/50.
>You never paid me one red cent. Of course that was after you tried to cheat
>me by padding the misc expenses by nearly 8K! I have proof of this!
Show your proof. Do not mix up a working budget for the final bill. We sat
down and worked out the final expenses together and I was very generous.
There were hundreds of dollars in phone bills not to mention other expenses
that were not claimed. I never cheated, or made any attempt to cheat you out
of a single dime. That is a fact. This 8K of expenses you keep talking
about is totally fictional.
>You were
> merely the very public mouth piece for the project, I tried my best to
> stay out of the public eye as I was busy actually making PFs while you
> were constantly beaking off online. In fact anything you did on your own
> was a disaster. I warned you not to use Paypal and not to take
> prepayements as we didn't need these to complete the project. But you
> ignored my warnings and had the whole song and dance with Paypal because
> if it.
Well if you mean answering customer questions then yes I did that. The
paypal thing was unfortunate but really none of your business. You never
paid a single cent out of pocket. I financed the entire thing. The one time
you did spend your own money you came running over real quick to get
reimbursed. It wasn't your company therefore not your call..
>
> Kevin did not have anything to do with Fathom, however he is a true
> collector who has a great passion for pinball. He is a color specialist
> with Xerox and has excellect connections in the field. But most of all,
> he's honest and hard working
Glad to hear you guys are working out. Hope you do well together. Also glad
to see you say that Kevin has never made a playfield. However I hope he
does.
...... things severly lacking in my last partner. I
> have to say that after working with you on Fathom I was finished with PFs
> as you had soured all interest in them for me. You took what was supposed
> to be a fun project that might or might not have made a few bucks and
> turned it into a nightmare for me and my family . Kevin has a different
> focus entirely, one where we aren't out for the quick buck but are there
> for the pinball community as a whole. Our idea is to help out the
> community, make PFs and have some fun along the way. We want to be able to
> eventually break even on very short runs which means that all our dear old
> pins will have a new lease on life. Your approach is to cherry pick the
> most sellable and to contract the whole works out. Yes, in the short term
> you'll line your pockets but very quickly you'll run out of titles that
> can sell 100 units and you'll have to just stop making them as the costs
> will be prohibitive to go much below that threshold. We however will be
> there still turning out PFs with titles that sell only a few dozen at
> most. We won't get rich but the PFs will be made and the pinball community
> will be richer for it!
Time will tell. We disagree on how to do many things. That is why we parted
ways. You are full in your rights to start your own company and advertise
your experiances, no argument. I'm just asking that you stop making these
subtle references to me and my company. You would not be making any
playfield at all if not for me.
>
> As fo my involvment with Fathom... it started with you hopelessly mired in
> self doubt and not making much of anything. You did have a nice looking
> unfinished ill fitting computer copy of the artwork, that's it. And I paid
> you handsomely for it! When I became your partner, I did most everything
> while you were the very public mouthpiece feeding bullshit to the
> newsgroup on nearly a daily basis. I got us plastics, screeners, clear
> coaters, packaging, shipper etc.... In fact other than putting some
> dimples in some plywood, a task which you amply bragged about online over
> and over, you did very little after that! I had a hell of a time even
> getting you to show up to the screeners to even check on the pfs after the
> first few were printed! I gave up at one point trying to get you to help
> with touchups etc and when problems arose with the screening you simply
> did not care. You flatly refused to even inspect a single one of these PF
> before they were cleared.
Well some truth and some lies. I arranged the plastics, and the screen
printer. The screen printer sugested the paint shop next door for the
clearcoat. You did none of that. You DID do the packaging and shipping.
I did do the drilling and dimpling. I did not say much online about it, but
remember that YOU did! The drilling and dimpling took just as long per
playfield as the inserts did. So, why are you whining about doing so much
work? I did go out to the screen printer and did talk to them on the phone
several times. They did not need your supervision. Regarding the alignment
on the screens that you say I declined fixing. Well the printer wanted to
make all the black circles larger on the inside and outside diameter to
allow for larger tolerance. This would have looked stupid and non-original.
It was my call because it was my project. The fact that you did not see me
at the printer does not mean I wasn't there. As far as touchups, I chose not
to open that can of worms because the touchups can't be undone. I was
offering an original playfield done to original specs, not a retouched fudge
job. As far as inspecting the playfields at that point, I was AT SEA for
christ sake. For a guy who is away from home for work so much you really
have a hard time with this concept.
> This would have been the time to easily fix any problems we had. I think
> if you had showed even a passing interest in the final quality I would
> have done even more but by that time I had had more than enough of your
> long list of excuses for being absent and was as sick of your lack of
> commintment to the projest as I was of having to do all the work.
You did not do all the work Mike. You did your share and were hansomely paid
to do so. Most of the real work was contracted out to specialists. I ran the
project and you did your part. I really wish I would have hired someone else
or at least got you to sign a confidentiality clause, but I didn't so you
were free to backstab me when it was over. Nice friend..
> The problem as I saw it was you were so busy with extra activities you
> just didn't have time for Fathom. While I was taking sick time, vacation
> time and days off to get this project finished you were busy doing
> anything but helping. You appointed yourself Pinball World Police and set
> about causing lots of trouble for anyone selling unlicesnsed artwork or
> parts, you bragged to the locals here that you had shut down many guys
> selling artwork on Ebay... and for what? You weren't getting a red cent
> for it!
Completely untrue and made up. I never shut down any ebay ad nor do I have
the power to do so. You are delusional on this point. Not even a hint of
truth.
> I had to laugh when you attempted to fleece poor Vic Ireland who did the
> Shadow plastics. Poor guy gets word from you stating that IPB wanted a 20
> % cut of his Shadow run. Ten percent for IPB and 10% for you, to be paid
> directly to you. And man you were so pissed when Vic went directly to Gene
> and cut you out, and then only had to pay 10%. You were so mad, I couldn't
> understand that at all, you had NO right whatsoever to do that and then
> get pissed off when it failed! That was dishonest at best and probably not
> even legal. But...... It is so representive of what you stand for.
Well again you are delusional on this one. Vic contacted me about the deal I
had with Gene. I told him the deal and gave him Gene's phone number. Vic
made his own deal with Gene and I never had any other part in it. The rest
you made up. I invite Vic to testify to the truth of this one.
>
> We chose Centaur for a very good reason. Believe it or not not everything
> done in the pinball worl concerns you In fact that choice had nothing to
> do with you. We are starting out with our own silk screening and
> devoloping gear it was important to to use a PF that was popular but it
> was essential that the color layers be kept down till we develop the
> expertise on our gear. Centaur fit the bill perfectly. Besides when we
> were down to examine the artwork at IPB we were told you were gonna make 8
> Ball Deluxe and your pile of artwork was sitting right beside ours! I bet
> its still there cause you are so busy trying to sabotage our little
> venture that you havn't even bothered to pick up the artwork! You don't
> seem to really want to make a PF and worse you don't seem to want anyone
> else to make one either.
Mike you knew I was working on Centaur and you chose to do the same one.
Petty.
>
> You have been stiring up trouble behind the scenes with Wayne and IPB
> trying your very best to have our contract with IPB cancelled. You have
> lied to them, have threatened us through them, have spread lies and
> started rumors.All of your claims are false and in fact many of these
> could be actionable in court!
I have not done anything of the sort. If you think anything is actionable in
court then have your day.
> You even stooped so low as to have threatened our woodworker!
??!! What the hell are you talking about? The woodworker from Fathom is a
police officer. You think I'm going to threaten a police officer? You talk
about false claims that could be actionable in court and then you say this??
I asked Scott if he was involved in CPR and was going to operate your CNC
if/when it arrives. He laughed and said that he was moving to Newfoundland
and wouldn't be opreating anything for you. Also said it was the first he
heard of it.
For the love of God, get over this and make a PF! We all just
> want PFs we don't want or need this crap.
I wish you the very best Mike. For what it is worth I thought you were a
pretty good friend and thought you were above this stuff. My post was quite
simple and I'll don't have to restate it for you again. I'm going to make
playfields. They have already started. The company that brought Fathom, and
started playfield reproductions here in Halifax is still at it and will have
playfields for sale in the near future. No need to be petty and no need for
mud slinging. Make your playfield and we will see what the future brings.
Greg Walker
Fantastic Pinball (formerly known as HalifaxPinball)
Fantastic Pinball
"Mike Purcell" <MPur...@nospamhfx.eastlink.ca> wrote in message news:tU%%e.198226$wr.58397@clgrps12...
Mike Purcell
Delusional is all I can say. I have bill and emails to back up everything I
stated. I have emails and bills from many of the companies you stated you
worked with which you did not. All of these are from or between said company
and me, you name appears no where. This goes for the plastics supplier, the
screener, the clear coaters, the packaging company, the shipper etc....
Please stop trying to sabotage our efforts behind the scenes and now
publically
Lets make PFs not waste our efforts doing this.
Mike Purcell
Classic Playfield Reproductions
Mr Pinball Australia
parts?
There is one thing that you all don't realize, regardless of who gives who
permission to make what, Williams have the final say.
All this on the forum is not going to help get any new parts made.
Regards
GA Pinhead
> And this is why you all wonder why we don't get people on board making our
> parts?
>
Don't? I thought is was can't due to royalties no one is willing to pay.
> There is one thing that you all don't realize, regardless of who gives who
> permission to make what, Williams have the final say.
So they care now?
>
> All this on the forum is not going to help get any new parts made.
>
But but but, you promised that 10/13 will be the floodgate's opening of
parts, playfields and plastics, a hundred of each for all the Williams pins.
Oh wait, you will blame the doubtful here for you not being able to make
any parts? Blame shifting, good on ya mate.
John!
Neil
this BS response we'd have a few new pins we all could restore.
"Fantastic Pinball" <FantasticPi...@NOSPAMmsn.com> wrote in message
Fantastic Pinball
and make playfields or whatever. I'm just tired of all the subtle little
jabs. If these guys want to make playfields then they should. Just quite
dragging me into it. I've had about enough of hearing that Kevin made Fathom
and everything is my fault...
Greg
"Neil" <neil_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DN10f.260070$9A2.19222@edtnps89...
Neil
Almost made me want to buy one myself they were gorgeous. Hope to see some
finished product out of both your respective companies soon. You both have
the knowledge and ability to produce some quality product that this hobby
could really use. Good luck.
"Fantastic Pinball" <FantasticPi...@NOSPAMmsn.com> wrote in message
kirb
Wait a minute, I got dragged into this thread by Gary and now I am the
scapegoat for parts not getting made?
Wow, it looks like I did more than I thought this weekend.
Kirb
wgir...@gmail.com
repro bad Karma.
Guys just make playfields and we will pay you $. Check your egos at
the door and move forward. I am happy as hell to have a minty Fathom
due to your collective efforts.
mik...@omuonline.net
all the Fathom project stuff and I was wondering how you were holding
your tongue. I dont know all the specifics, but I know you had a part
or whatever in the Fathom PF's and you name is no where mentioned by
CPR. All I have to say in that regard. Now lets have the new playfields
and we can judge who's is better later :)
