$20 isn't enough?
Timothy Lawless
for $20 each, or $40 in all? (I was informed one is Hp and one is Mana).
I know its been debated before, but if this is true, then i only have one
question, WHY?
To continue to make a game more difficult, reducing stats on equipment and
making monsters more difficult, only to turn around and offer a "item" that
would make playing in such a hostile enviorment possible (not to mention
playing in a Pk-Friendly Envoirment) amounts to nothing more then "Pay
for Play." Why? Because if you dont' pay then ultimately the perverbal deck
would be stacked against you (and the only way to play the game would be to
buy the item for sale^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmake a donation.
I have to had it to vryce this time, when he said that the mud was intended
from its conception to become a pay for play mud I never even dreamed of the
scheme being this twisted.
--Tim.
Blairy
This probably has no place here, but I can see you still haven't learned
to spell, Tim.
-Necro
Timothy Lawless
: Timothy Lawless (tlaw...@Babble.st.usm.edu) wrote:
: -Necro
Hello old pal, how have you been? Welp, nope.. Never was a perfect speller.
Who's perfect? So, How what have you been up to. We've missed you. I hope
the faimly is doing well.
Have you heard anything about this rumor? Is it true? *shrug*
Til next time. Have fun and keep looking up.
--tim
InYup Park; Ify
: Is the news i received today true? Is Medievia now selling 2 thinggamagiggys
: for $20 each, or $40 in all? (I was informed one is Hp and one is Mana).
: I know its been debated before, but if this is true, then i only have one
: question, WHY?
: To continue to make a game more difficult, reducing stats on equipment and
: making monsters more difficult, only to turn around and offer a "item" that
: would make playing in such a hostile enviorment possible (not to mention
: playing in a Pk-Friendly Envoirment) amounts to nothing more then "Pay
: for Play." Why? Because if you dont' pay then ultimately the perverbal deck
: would be stacked against you (and the only way to play the game would be to
: buy the item for sale^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmake a donation.
Ok... time for me to delurk in rgdm.
First of all, I really don't see any point to your post.
It is not only possible to play Medievia with few old stat eq, but it
is also playable with ALL new stat eq. Let me ask you this: have YOU
tried it? Cause I have.
2. No one is forcing the players, especially the newbies, to
donate $40 bucks. If someone wishes to donate 40 bucks for whatever
reason, it is none of your business.
3. Imagine this. Vryce never mentions about the eqs being given to
people who donate some money. But he feels grateful to those who did
and decides to show his appreciation by giving them some eq. You
don't think other people would then procede to donate as well? If
anything, Vryce is smart to actually set an incentive.
4. If Medievia can get better on those few bucks people donate, then
I am all for it. Did you hear WHY he was offering the second eq? He
wants to buy some SIMMS for the new computer he bought.
5. Most people I have met who had the special eq said they donated
for the better of the mud -- whether you or I belive them is
inconsequential here. IF they felt Med was giving them cheap
entertainment and decided to repay the mud, good for em. If they
bought it to get the eq... well then we know they are probably newbies
who are too lazy to get the good eq themselves.
6. As to your PK comment, NO ONE is forcing the players to go into pk
zones. People know what the consequences are.
: I have to had it to vryce this time, when he said that the mud was intended
: from its conception to become a pay for play mud I never even dreamed of the
: scheme being this twisted.
7. ok let's say the average time spent per month by a player is 50
hours. That would be 600 hours a year. Let's say you donate 40
dollars. 600/40 = *gasp* 15hours/dollar Go to your nearest arcade
and play something -- it will be more than a dollar for an hour most
likely.
: --Tim.
InYup
Ify in Medievia
Brian Moore
: First of all, I really don't see any point to your post.
: It is not only possible to play Medievia with few old stat eq, but it
: is also playable with ALL new stat eq. Let me ask you this: have YOU
: tried it? Cause I have.
I have a million better things to do than play Medievia.
: 2. No one is forcing the players, especially the newbies, to
: donate $40 bucks. If someone wishes to donate 40 bucks for whatever
: reason, it is none of your business.
As a software developer, it IS my business to see license terms disregarded.
: 3. Imagine this. Vryce never mentions about the eqs being given to
: people who donate some money. But he feels grateful to those who did
: and decides to show his appreciation by giving them some eq. You
: don't think other people would then procede to donate as well? If
: anything, Vryce is smart to actually set an incentive.
And a thief would be smart to stop hanging out in the poor part of town
and just mug rich people who have more money... so? The act is illegal.
: 4. If Medievia can get better on those few bucks people donate, then
: I am all for it. Did you hear WHY he was offering the second eq? He
: wants to buy some SIMMS for the new computer he bought.
Awww..... I bought 20M worth for my own baby Sun which is the new home
of ROM (and gets moved as soon as my work schedule allows it). Didn't
ask for a dime for that or the rest of the system. Turned down a
couple offers of stuff, too. Ah, the price of scruples. Perhaps
Vryce should (gasp) get a job to support his hobbies?
: 5. Most people I have met who had the special eq said they donated
: for the better of the mud -- whether you or I belive them is
: inconsequential here. IF they felt Med was giving them cheap
: entertainment and decided to repay the mud, good for em. If they
: bought it to get the eq... well then we know they are probably newbies
: who are too lazy to get the good eq themselves.
It's still illegal.
: 6. As to your PK comment, NO ONE is forcing the players to go into pk
: zones. People know what the consequences are.
And they know that they now have to pony up $40 to be a mondo-cool pk'er.
: 7. ok let's say the average time spent per month by a player is 50
: hours. That would be 600 hours a year. Let's say you donate 40
: dollars. 600/40 = *gasp* 15hours/dollar Go to your nearest arcade
: and play something -- it will be more than a dollar for an hour most
: likely.
Yes, and how much of the money Vryce gets is he sharing with the Diku/Merc
teams as royalties? Or did he license the code for a flat fee?
Matthew MacGibbon, Scimitar Fantasies
> : I am all for it. Did you hear WHY he was offering the second eq? He
> : wants to buy some SIMMS for the new computer he bought.
>
I see...and the fact that its illegal to do such an act doesnt bother you.
What about the diku/merc team who spent 10 times the time coding Vryce did.
Arent they eligable to get a percentage...oh right I forgot, Vryce doesn't
make a profit. So if the MUD goes down, he sells his computer parts, and
splits money among the donators.
Uh-huh.
It really amazes me how people dont give a shit about software developers who
spend long hours providing software (FREE mind you), who only ask that others
mind their ideals. I tell you, if i were them, I would go take them to court,
and get every bit of the money bryce has used from the mud...of course that
wont happen, but if it did, bryce would not have a leg to stand on.
-An annoyed developer.
eggy
: I know its been debated before, but if this is true, then i only have one
: question, WHY?
You don't sound like much of a medievia player, so, I can understand your
ignorance. Vryce needs $2000 to buy 32 megs of RAM for the new machine
that he has received. It is a ton faster, but he needs 64 megs of RAM to
incorporate all the new and interesting ideas in his mind. If people
enjoy the mud, and since it is their money, they can choose to do
whatever they would like to do with it. I paid $20 for a Medievia
Talisman, because the mud has given me over 600 hours of fun and
enjoyment. With the addition of the catacombs, Medievia has become
extremely interesting and challenging.
-eggy
Faithful Medievia player and supporter.
Katie Sehorn
InYup Park; Ify <ip...@red.seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
>3. Imagine this. Vryce never mentions about the eqs being given to
>people who donate some money. But he feels grateful to those who did
>and decides to show his appreciation by giving them some eq. You
>don't think other people would then procede to donate as well? If
>anything, Vryce is smart to actually set an incentive.
If there is any incentive given to the player other than the MUD
getting better, then it is not a donation, it is prostitution.
>
>4. If Medievia can get better on those few bucks people donate, then
>I am all for it. Did you hear WHY he was offering the second eq? He
>wants to buy some SIMMS for the new computer he bought.
ValhallaMUD was looking to try and get hold of a faster computer
and a more stable site. We were thinking of taking player donations, but
we were not going to offer MUD favours. If our players want a faster MUD
and a better connection, they will donate regardless. If they don't,
it's their loss, we can run just fine on the site we have, we were just
looking to try and make it better for THEM, with THEIR help.
>5. Most people I have met who had the special eq said they donated
>for the better of the mud -- whether you or I belive them is
>inconsequential here.
It is consequential, because it compromises the whole meaning of
the word "donation". See my opening comment.
I challenge every one of those players who "donated for the good
of the MUD" to junk that piece of special equipment they received. You
say you can play the MUD without it, you say they only made the donation
because they want to see the MUD get better, then prove it.
>7. ok let's say the average time spent per month by a player is 50
>hours. That would be 600 hours a year. Let's say you donate 40
>dollars. 600/40 = *gasp* 15hours/dollar Go to your nearest arcade
>and play something -- it will be more than a dollar for an hour most
>likely.
Go to Chaos, HexOnyx, Ronin, Spam, Mozart, or Mystic Adventure
and play for any length of time you damn well feel like. It won't cost
you a dime unless you have to make an LD phone call to get online.
- Mourant Pavane, Keeper of the Sunset, Raven of Talen @ChaosMUD
telnet 198.3.118.12 4000
Brian Haines
: Arent they eligable to get a percentage...oh right I forgot, Vryce doesn't
: splits money among the donators.
: Uh-huh.
Amazing isn't it? Maybe the donators would think about that. How do they
know Vryce -didn't- in fact buy ANY new SIMMS for the system. He could
be lying out his teeth for all we know. Such a cloudy situation indeed.
I mean, god forbid, Vryce could be raking in the money just to see how
idiotic people can be. And as far as they know the game could be closed
next week and they're standing they out of $20(maybe $40)..
: It really amazes me how people dont give a shit about software developers who
: spend long hours providing software (FREE mind you), who only ask that others
: mind their ideals. I tell you, if i were them, I would go take them to court,
: and get every bit of the money bryce has used from the mud...of course that
: wont happen, but if it did, bryce would not have a leg to stand on.
You knew know, maybe the time will come when something CAN be done. Its
an extremely shitty situation indeed. Tells you how ungrateful people can
be for free code. Just wait, next thing you know they'll be charging
money for upkeep of the plant life, so we have air to breath! There
is simple solution.. Don't want them to put their dirty hands on your
code then don't release it to public. Their loss, let them code the
stuff themselves.
: -An annoyed developer.
No shit.. You have -every- right to be!
--
That being said, I'd love to see the people on Medieval running about
pkilling the stupid people who threw their money away on donations to
Vryce's lovely computer. Just kill them, take the eq and laugh in their
faces. (That is if Medieval has pkilling, I don't know.. I'm not going
to waiste my time to check.) Or just sacrafice it and say, "Oh hell, only
10 gold for sacraficing it? You paid a lot more for it huh? Here.. Take
the gold, I don't need it.. SUCKERS!" Heheheh..
B. Haines
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
"Evidently, angry clowns do charge!"
-The Tick
Vijay Prabhakar
>3. Imagine this. Vryce never mentions about the eqs being given to
>people who donate some money. But he feels grateful to those who did
>and decides to show his appreciation by giving them some eq. You
>don't think other people would then procede to donate as well? If
>anything, Vryce is smart to actually set an incentive.
street corner. She comes back to a hotel room with you, the two of you
have sex, and then you casually donate $100 to her education fund for "doing
such a good job." We call this prostitution.
>
>4. If Medievia can get better on those few bucks people donate, then
>I am all for it. Did you hear WHY he was offering the second eq? He
>wants to buy some SIMMS for the new computer he bought.
>
But the nice lady is paying for her education with it! But
she'll still get arrested for doing it...
-Weasel
PoMUD: 128.59.241.117 6666
John Molea
: of ROM (and gets moved as soon as my work schedule allows it). Didn't
: ask for a dime for that or the rest of the system. Turned down a
: couple offers of stuff, too. Ah, the price of scruples. Perhaps
: Vryce should (gasp) get a job to support his hobbies?
Or perhaps learn how to optimize his code some so he doesnt need the 64
megs he claims is needed to add anymore features to Med.
Seng Ung
: That being said, I'd love to see the people on Medieval running about
: pkilling the stupid people who threw their money away on donations to
: Vryce's lovely computer. Just kill them, take the eq and laugh in their
: faces. (That is if Medieval has pkilling, I don't know.. I'm not going
: to waiste my time to check.) Or just sacrafice it and say, "Oh hell, only
: 10 gold for sacraficing it? You paid a lot more for it huh? Here.. Take
: the gold, I don't need it.. SUCKERS!" Heheheh..
: B. Haines
: .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
: "Evidently, angry clowns do charge!"
: -The Tick
Tried it. you cant loot the talisman from people. It's okee tho. i just
take everything else they have. kinda hard to play with just one piece of
eq no matter how good it is.
-Ansi(Da repo man) :P
grea...@corp.hp.com
> Timothy Lawless (tlaw...@Babble.st.usm.edu) wrote:
> You don't sound like much of a medievia player, so, I can understand your
> ignorance. Vryce needs $2000 to buy 32 megs of RAM for the new machine
> that he has received. It is a ton faster, but he needs 64 megs of RAM to
> incorporate all the new and interesting ideas in his mind. If people
> enjoy the mud, and since it is their money, they can choose to do
> whatever they would like to do with it. I paid $20 for a Medievia
> Talisman, because the mud has given me over 600 hours of fun and
> enjoyment. With the addition of the catacombs, Medievia has become
> extremely interesting and challenging.
> -eggy
> Faithful Medievia player and supporter.
Ok, so you've qualified yourself as a solid Medievia player. Your $20
payment was NOT a donation, but, as you said, a straight payment for
the Talisman. That's what this whole issue has been about - whether or
not Medievia is getting donations or charging for items. If the "faithful
players and supporters" (quote stolen from this guy's sig) see it as a
fee for an item purchase, I doubt even the Midievia folks can to pass
it off as anything else. This doesn't mean they won't try, however.
Robert J. Greanias http://onyx.cencom.net/~fred grea...@corp.hp.com
killfile helper 1.1b: JediSojournM*d**v**CanterSeigelTaylorOnivelStanton
IntelMicrosoftPeniswavingSPISPOPDDoomHereticMOOMOMCivMAKE.MONEY.FASTspam
ATMSuperhighwayCyberspaceMultimediaGreenpeaceAmnestyIRACIAKGBAFLCIO49ers
Matthew MacGibbon, Scimitar Fantasies
someone earlier said you can't loot it, interesting that its a donation, and
not only do they get a kind gift of a talisman, but they are the ONLY players
in the mud that have a permanent item..
And once more, forget the fact that its a "donation" or Vryce need money to buy
64 megs of ram (amazingly enough, not even Sneezy, or Jedi at its peak used
that much...sneezy more so..which was the most intricatley coded mud..to the
point of disgustingness...) its illegal to use diku based muds to make a
profit. So i guess that how you determine profit come up next. They defend
themeselves by saying that its used for the mud, so its not a profit...on the
other hand, i highly doubt that the machine is never or never will be used for
anything else...if he even types a resume on it once, he used mud money for
profit...
as for the valhalla statement, taking donations would be ok in my eye, because
(if im correct) valhalla is NOT based on diku.
my $.02
Timothy Lawless
This is not so mutch a reply to Ketie, but the the person she is replying
to herself. I have not recieved this message, but would love to see it
in full (not to mention reply).
: In article <3o53vm$f...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
: InYup Park; Ify <ip...@red.seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
: >
: >3. Imagine this. Vryce never mentions about the eqs being given to
: >people who donate some money. But he feels grateful to those who did
: >and decides to show his appreciation by giving them some eq. You
: >don't think other people would then procede to donate as well? If
: >anything, Vryce is smart to actually set an incentive.
Well, We can imagine all day. The fact remains that not only did
he offer this, he posted publicly that he would offer it because he
wasn't getting enough donations.
: >
: >4. If Medievia can get better on those few bucks people donate, then
: >I am all for it. Did you hear WHY he was offering the second eq? He
: >wants to buy some SIMMS for the new computer he bought.
: ValhallaMUD was looking to try and get hold of a faster computer
: and a more stable site. We were thinking of taking player donations, but
: we were not going to offer MUD favours. If our players want a faster MUD
: and a better connection, they will donate regardless. If they don't,
: it's their loss, we can run just fine on the site we have, we were just
: looking to try and make it better for THEM, with THEIR help.
Inclued katies statement because it should be seen, again and again...
Anyways, If Vryce keeps the memory after the mud shuts down (no mud
lasts for ever), Is that not a gain for him since he didn't have to
pay the full load of the memory? Isnt' that a 'profit'. And isnt' that
aginst both word and spirit of the Diku agreement?
: >5. Most people I have met who had the special eq said they donated
: >for the better of the mud -- whether you or I belive them is
: >inconsequential here.
Yes, and it gave them that warm and fuzzy feeling when they could kill
something. Better the mud how? By being able to KILL something. oops. sorry.
: It is consequential, because it compromises the whole meaning of
: the word "donation". See my opening comment.
: I challenge every one of those players who "donated for the good
: of the MUD" to junk that piece of special equipment they received. You
: say you can play the MUD without it, you say they only made the donation
: because they want to see the MUD get better, then prove it.
: >7. ok let's say the average time spent per month by a player is 50
: >hours. That would be 600 hours a year. Let's say you donate 40
: >dollars. 600/40 = *gasp* 15hours/dollar Go to your nearest arcade
: >and play something -- it will be more than a dollar for an hour most
: >likely.
Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Go play somewhere else.
Better game, Better prices. That is unless you do want to pay more for your
muffler... But thats another story.
Sultress
: InYup Park; Ify (ip...@red.seas.upenn.edu) wrote:
: : 3. Imagine this. Vryce never mentions about the eqs being given to
: : people who donate some money. But he feels grateful to those who did
: : and decides to show his appreciation by giving them some eq. You
: : don't think other people would then procede to donate as well? If
: : anything, Vryce is smart to actually set an incentive.
: And a thief would be smart to stop hanging out in the poor part of town
: and just mug rich people who have more money... so? The act is illegal.
Please show us where it is illegal to accept donations?
: : 4. If Medievia can get better on those few bucks people donate, then
: : I am all for it. Did you hear WHY he was offering the second eq? He
: : wants to buy some SIMMS for the new computer he bought.
: Awww..... I bought 20M worth for my own baby Sun which is the new home
: of ROM (and gets moved as soon as my work schedule allows it). Didn't
: ask for a dime for that or the rest of the system. Turned down a
: couple offers of stuff, too. Ah, the price of scruples. Perhaps
: Vryce should (gasp) get a job to support his hobbies?
<Sultress gives you a cookie and pats you on the head>
If you can afford to get them on your own, then you damn well shouldnt
ask for help.. However, all of us aren't as fortunate. Vryce DOES work a
full time job to support his hobby. There is no reason for him to try
and support ALL of OUR's too. The donations allow those of us who WANT
to help, the opportunity to.
: : 5. Most people I have met who had the special eq said they donated
: : for the better of the mud -- whether you or I belive them is
: : inconsequential here. IF they felt Med was giving them cheap
: : entertainment and decided to repay the mud, good for em. If they
: : bought it to get the eq... well then we know they are probably newbies
: : who are too lazy to get the good eq themselves.
: It's still illegal.
Oh? According to who?
: : 6. As to your PK comment, NO ONE is forcing the players to go into pk
: : zones. People know what the consequences are.
: And they know that they now have to pony up $40 to be a mondo-cool pk'er.
No, they don't. Many of the best pk'ers in the game did not choose to
donate. Doesn't seem to have hurt them at all.
: : 7. ok let's say the average time spent per month by a player is 50
: : hours. That would be 600 hours a year. Let's say you donate 40
: : dollars. 600/40 = *gasp* 15hours/dollar Go to your nearest arcade
: : and play something -- it will be more than a dollar for an hour most
: : likely.
: Yes, and how much of the money Vryce gets is he sharing with the Diku/Merc
: teams as royalties? Or did he license the code for a flat fee?
According to the license, we are not allowed to make a profit of any kind,
so there is nothing to share. :P
Sultress
--
________________________________________________________________________
Sin.. the Sultress of Medievia s...@netcom.com
Come MUD With ME! http://medievia.netaxs.com:8080
Medievia..the Bright Light in the DarkAges! medievia.netaxs.com 4000
Bart Federici
>Timothy Lawless (tlaw...@Babble.st.usm.edu) wrote:
>: I know its been debated before, but if this is true, then i only have one
>: question, WHY?
>You don't sound like much of a medievia player, so, I can understand your
>ignorance. Vryce needs $2000 to buy 32 megs of RAM for the new machine
>that he has received. It is a ton faster, but he needs 64 megs of RAM to
>incorporate all the new and interesting ideas in his mind. If people
>enjoy the mud, and since it is their money, they can choose to do
>whatever they would like to do with it. I paid $20 for a Medievia
>Talisman, because the mud has given me over 600 hours of fun and
>enjoyment. With the addition of the catacombs, Medievia has become
>extremely interesting and challenging.
>-eggy
>Faithful Medievia player and supporter.
Speaking of ignorance...
You are obviously new to this thread and play medievia so I can understand
your ignorance. 2k for 32mg? yeah right.
Matthew MacGibbon, Scimitar Fantasies
> Brian Moore (bmo...@cie-2.uoregon.edu) wrote:
> : InYup Park; Ify (ip...@red.seas.upenn.edu) wrote:
>
I gotta admit, you have become quite good at pushing this 'donation' policy
sultress. You use it, because you know you cant make a profit. So you mince
words, and claim no profit is being made, because "its all being put back into
the mud". Like i said, you are quite good at changing peoples words by
insulting them, and attempting to make them look stupid. I salute you, you
would make a good lawyer. However, speaking as someone who does know a bit
about the law, you are standing on REALLY shakey legal ground. It would be up
to you guys to proove that NO profit was made in the least. Computer and site
dont qualify, unless they are NEVER EVER used for anything but the mud, and
NEVER will be. (i find this highly doubtful). Considering you paid nothing
for the code, you are going to have a hard time saying that no money was made).
But, itll never be taken to court, we both know that. So youll have more time
to plan your rebuttles to all the anti-medivia talk.
I wonder if you guys remember when it was another IMP that made MEdevia
supreme, and when you guys pissed him off, he screed with your files, and you
were down for a major long time...no probably not.
Others of us remember that medevia has always depended on others, and refused
to give credit where its due.
licc...@aspen.uml.edu
All this talk about accepting money for playing a mud is driving me
crazy. Anyway I figured I would add to the spam by putting in my .015
cents. Vryce, your wrong for asking for money(donation or not) The
lisence specifically says that you can not make a profit from diku code.
How anyone could even think of a way to "accept donations" for playing
er coding a mud is beyond me. You must be one of those corporate types who
favor junk mail and advertising over the internet. Information over the
internet is "FREE"(for the most part). It should stay that way. Perilous
Realms did this type of scheme a while back and I left playing there because of
it. Don't follow in their footsteps. Any of the other muds that are thinking
about this sort of action, forget it. I have a question for Vryce that I
think will point out the flaw in his ways. If one of your donators decides
to kill newbies for a living(in some mindless insane crazed night) are you
going to ban his site and kick him off the game? What about when he decides
to become and immortal and you don't need anymore immortals? He paid to play
your game and deserves to be considered for immortality. Are you going to
refund his money should you terminate his ability to play at your mud.?
Kressilac@Mozart
licc...@aspen.uml.edu
ps if you want to mud for "FREE" try Mozart out. nauset.econ.cwru.edu 4500
Timothy Lawless
message.. and away we go...
Matthew MacGibbon, Scimitar Fantasies (acc...@vaxa.hofstra.edu) wrote:
: In article <3o87v1$5...@hpcc48.corp.hp.com>, grea...@corp.hp.com () writes:
: > On 2 May 1995 23:05:53 GMT, eggy (egg...@cloud9.net) tried to convince us that:
: >> Timothy Lawless (tlaw...@Babble.st.usm.edu) wrote:
: >
: >> You don't sound like much of a medievia player, so, I can understand your
: >> ignorance. Vryce needs $2000 to buy 32 megs of RAM for the new machine
: >> that he has received. It is a ton faster, but he needs 64 megs of RAM to
: >> incorporate all the new and interesting ideas in his mind. If people
: >> enjoy the mud, and since it is their money, they can choose to do
: >> whatever they would like to do with it. I paid $20 for a Medievia
: >> Talisman, because the mud has given me over 600 hours of fun and
: >> enjoyment. With the addition of the catacombs, Medievia has become
: >> extremely interesting and challenging.
: >> -eggy
Not mutch of a Medievia player? :) Well, your prolly one of the new ones.
I was on Medievia for over a year. Not only was I a player, I was a
god. As to the ignorance statement, It is the ignorance of the players
that Vryce feeds on. Ok, So your game is a bit faster. The machine
is limited by his t1 link (or his kernel, but thats fixed now). I have
seen the politics of medievia. That is why i quit shortly after sultress's
arrival.
Oh, and Have a nice day.
--Tim
Timothy Lawless
: : What about the diku/merc team who spent 10 times the time coding Vryce did.
: : Arent they eligable to get a percentage...oh right I forgot, Vryce doesn't
: : splits money among the donators.
: Please show us where it is illegal?
I think he just did.
: Yes.. you are correct. No profit has been made, and thus nothing to
: share. As for the mud going down and the equipment getting sold.. don't
: hold your breath. Medievia isn't going anywhere so why even bother with
: the what if's??
Well, profit has been made. The Assets of the Businuess have been increased,
and no additional liabilities have been incurred. Therefore to balance the
simple high school equation A = L + E, the Equity in the Businuess would
increase. Is this not a profitable function (Adding to Cash and adding to
Equity?)
: --
: ________________________________________________________________________
: Sin.. the Sultress of Medievia s...@netcom.com
: Come MUD With ME! http://medievia.netaxs.com:8080
: Medievia..the Bright Light in the DarkAges! medievia.netaxs.com 4000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pav.. the Pavster of Phidar p...@phidar.traveller.com
Come see the Future of Yesterday's Mudding. http://phidar.traveller.com/~phidar
Phidar..When you are blinded by the Bright Light. phidar.traveller.com 9000
grea...@corp.hp.com
> Please show us where it is illegal to accept donations?
Let's go through this one more time - if you exchange something for money, it is
NOT a donation - it's a sale. Ploink.
> : : 5. Most people I have met who had the special eq said they donated
> : : for the better of the mud -- whether you or I belive them is
> : : inconsequential here. IF they felt Med was giving them cheap
> : : entertainment and decided to repay the mud, good for em. If they
> : : bought it to get the eq... well then we know they are probably newbies
> : : who are too lazy to get the good eq themselves.
> : It's still illegal.
> Oh? According to who?
According to the folks who wrote the code (note - NOT Vryce). Ploink again.
> : Yes, and how much of the money Vryce gets is he sharing with the Diku/Merc
> : teams as royalties? Or did he license the code for a flat fee?
> According to the license, we are not allowed to make a profit of any kind,
> so there is nothing to share. :P
And I just hope Vryce includes all these "donations" in his annual income tax
report (unless you guys are incorporated, in which case it would appear in the
corporation report).
Brian Haines
: Brian Moore (bmo...@cie-2.uoregon.edu) wrote:
: : InYup Park; Ify (ip...@red.seas.upenn.edu) wrote:
: <Sultress gives you a cookie and pats you on the head>
But he didn't donate any money? Why the favors? Sheeesh!
: : : 7. ok let's say the average time spent per month by a player is 50
: : : hours. That would be 600 hours a year. Let's say you donate 40
: : : dollars. 600/40 = *gasp* 15hours/dollar Go to your nearest arcade
: : : and play something -- it will be more than a dollar for an hour most
: : : likely.
: : Yes, and how much of the money Vryce gets is he sharing with the Diku/Merc
: : teams as royalties? Or did he license the code for a flat fee?
: According to the license, we are not allowed to make a profit of any kind,
: so there is nothing to share. :P
Ummmmm.. What happens when Medievia shuts down and all? When Vryce gets
tired of maintaining the machinery? He going to sell the parts -and-
refund back all the money donated? I don't think so.. He does whatever
with the machinery. And guess what? Thats profit!
B. Haines
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
Kevin W Miller
can say it is not. BTW I dont play there.
The reason I dont think it is illegal is #1: It is not a pay to play
mud...you are not expected to pay or forced to pay.
You can look at it like someone who plays the mud is donating money fro
Vryce to get a better machine or whatever it is. Now Vryce in his
kindness *call it what you will* gives them a gift on the mud.
Now you might say this is still illegal under the DIKU terms. But what
if this person knows Vryce in real life, and Vryce asks him for a few
bucks to help him get a new whatever for his computer. The guy says
sure, as long as Vryce can hook him up with something on the mud. Now we
all know The Imp of the mud can do anything he damn well wants, so if he
wants to give someone a token gift for their donation so be it. If it
was made in real life from a real life friend would anyone cry??? It
just happens that he is asking over the mud. As long as the money goes
to the computer used to run the mud and only the mud..nothing is wrong
with that. He isnt charging for play time or code work. So it isnt illegal.
Kevin, Chopper of Ensem Mud
Sultress
: > : I am all for it. Did you hear WHY he was offering the second eq? He
: > : wants to buy some SIMMS for the new computer he bought.
: >
: I see...and the fact that its illegal to do such an act doesnt bother you.
: What about the diku/merc team who spent 10 times the time coding Vryce did.
: Arent they eligable to get a percentage...oh right I forgot, Vryce doesn't
: make a profit. So if the MUD goes down, he sells his computer parts, and
: splits money among the donators.
Please show us where it is illegal?
Yes.. you are correct. No profit has been made, and thus nothing to
share. As for the mud going down and the equipment getting sold.. don't
hold your breath. Medievia isn't going anywhere so why even bother with
the what if's??
: Uh-huh.
: It really amazes me how people dont give a shit about software developers who
: spend long hours providing software (FREE mind you), who only ask that others
: mind their ideals. I tell you, if i were them, I would go take them to court,
: and get every bit of the money bryce has used from the mud...of course that
: wont happen, but if it did, bryce would not have a leg to stand on.
It's a good thing you aren't them, you'd lose your shirt. And Vryce ..
would have TWO perfectly good legs to stand on.
BTW... who the hell is bryce?
: -An annoyed developer.
Brian Haines
: On Wed, 3 May 1995 22:44:17 GMT, Sultress (s...@netcom.com) tried to convince us that:
: > According to the license, we are not allowed to make a profit of any kind,
: > so there is nothing to share. :P
: And I just hope Vryce includes all these "donations" in his annual income tax
: report (unless you guys are incorporated, in which case it would appear in the
: corporation report).
Ouch! Oh thats gotta hurt! Nicely put!! Hahaha!!!
B. Haines
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
"Evidently angry clowns do charge!" -The Tick
Michael Seifert
>In article <3o87v1$5...@hpcc48.corp.hp.com>, grea...@corp.hp.com () writes:
>> On 2 May 1995 23:05:53 GMT, eggy (egg...@cloud9.net) tried to convince us that:
>>> Timothy Lawless (tlaw...@Babble.st.usm.edu) wrote:
>>
>>> You don't sound like much of a medievia player, so, I can understand your
>>> ignorance. Vryce needs $2000 to buy 32 megs of RAM for the new machine
>>> that he has received. It is a ton faster, but he needs 64 megs of RAM to
>>> incorporate all the new and interesting ideas in his mind. If people
>>> enjoy the mud, and since it is their money, they can choose to do
>>> whatever they would like to do with it. I paid $20 for a Medievia
>>> Talisman, because the mud has given me over 600 hours of fun and
>>> enjoyment. With the addition of the catacombs, Medievia has become
>>> extremely interesting and challenging.
>>> -eggy
>>> Faithful Medievia player and supporter.
>>
>> Ok, so you've qualified yourself as a solid Medievia player. Your $20
>> payment was NOT a donation, but, as you said, a straight payment for
>> the Talisman. That's what this whole issue has been about - whether or
>> not Medievia is getting donations or charging for items. If the "faithful
>> players and supporters" (quote stolen from this guy's sig) see it as a
>> fee for an item purchase, I doubt even the Midievia folks can to pass
>> it off as anything else. This doesn't mean they won't try, however.
>>
>>
>> Robert J. Greanias http://onyx.cencom.net/~fred grea...@corp.hp.com
>> killfile helper 1.1b: JediSojournM*d**v**CanterSeigelTaylorOnivelStanton
>> IntelMicrosoftPeniswavingSPISPOPDDoomHereticMOOMOMCivMAKE.MONEY.FASTspam
>> ATMSuperhighwayCyberspaceMultimediaGreenpeaceAmnestyIRACIAKGBAFLCIO49ers
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>someone earlier said you can't loot it, interesting that its a donation, and
>not only do they get a kind gift of a talisman, but they are the ONLY players
>in the mud that have a permanent item..
>
>And once more, forget the fact that its a "donation" or Vryce need money to buy
>64 megs of ram (amazingly enough, not even Sneezy, or Jedi at its peak used
>that much...sneezy more so..which was the most intricatley coded mud..to the
>point of disgustingness...) its illegal to use diku based muds to make a
>profit. So i guess that how you determine profit come up next. They defend
>themeselves by saying that its used for the mud, so its not a profit...on the
>other hand, i highly doubt that the machine is never or never will be used for
>anything else...if he even types a resume on it once, he used mud money for
>profit...
>
>as for the valhalla statement, taking donations would be ok in my eye, because
>(if im correct) valhalla is NOT based on diku.
>
>my $.02
>
Valhalla is diku based, but it's "us" the original autohors, so we can do
whatever we like as long as the zonewriters do not object.
--Michael Seifert
sei...@diku.dk
Keith Antul
: Ok as much as I want to say what Medievia is doing is illegal, I honestly
Erghh. I'm not going to touch this one.
Syndusk
Timothy B. Maddux
acc...@vaxa.hofstra.edu (Matthew MacGibbon, Scimitar Fantasies) writes:
>
>as for the valhalla statement, taking donations would be ok in my eye, because
>(if im correct) valhalla is NOT based on diku.
>
Even if it were, I know for a fact that all the donations the
Valhalla imps get is sent straight on to the original Diku authors.
It's kind of silly to even insinuate (not that Matt did, but
apparently somebody did) that they should be chastised for violating
their own license. We might as well go after Microsoft for making
copies of Word w/out paying for them.
--
- tim
(Tim Maddux, tbma...@engineering.ucsb.edu)
Kenneth Cavness
I dunno, it just seemed to go along with the "Does your diku mud have no players"
thread.
If your diku mud has no players, it could be one of many things.
1. Your mud sucks. I can't help you there.
2. Your mud has not been advertised enough. Make sure you're on freenet gopher
sites, mud lists, WWW pages, rec.games.mud.x, etc. This is the best way to get
the word out.
3. Keep the new chars playing. The best way to do this is to keep the mud from
becoming stagnant. A stagnant mud in this ever-changing game is not a good mud,
and is doomed.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Kenneth Cavness Learning Center |
| Questor@StrangeMUD, Ilsensine@SojournMUD School of Nursing |
| cav...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu University of Texas at Austin |
| star...@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Austin, TX 78705 |
| "America -- where intelligence is a vice, stupidity a virtue" |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Timothy Lawless
: : It's still illegal.
: Oh? According to who?
Well, according to everyone who you chose to ignore?
: ________________________________________________________________________
: Sin.. the Sultress of Medievia s...@netcom.com
: Come MUD With ME! http://medievia.netaxs.com:8080
: Medievia..the Bright Light in the DarkAges! medievia.netaxs.com 4000
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pav.. the Pavster of Phidar p...@phidar.traveller.com
Come MUD on ME! http://gw.traveller.com/~phidar
The Forbidden Donut
: : as for the valhalla statement, taking donations would be ok in my eye, because
: : (if im correct) valhalla is NOT based on diku.
: Geeeze.. Valhalla IS diku... DikuII, which is by the original diku team.
: They can do whatever they want... it is THEIR code.
hrmm.. and last I checked Diku I is THEIR code as well.. even if you did
modify it you're still using THEIR code as your base which means you have to
follow THEIR rules does it not?
--
'''
(o o)
+---------oOOO--(_)------------------+
| If this were an actual tagline |
| It would be funny. |
| pir...@shell1.best.com |
+----------------------oOOO----------+
|__|__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo
Sultress
: Sultress (s...@netcom.com) wrote:
: : : It's still illegal.
: : Oh? According to who?
: Well, according to everyone who you chose to ignore?
Oh please Pav... you and i both know it is next to useless to respond to
any of this shit here. I only do it these days when i am in the mood. And
i haven't been much in the mood since i broke my nail the other day...
hard to type with one short fingernail..
As far as your answer to my question, unless there has been a trial,
there is no crime here. Just because you and others here don't like it,
doesn't make it illegal.
: : ________________________________________________________________________
: : Sin.. the Sultress of Medievia s...@netcom.com
: : Come MUD With ME! http://medievia.netaxs.com:8080
: : Medievia..the Bright Light in the DarkAges! medievia.netaxs.com 4000
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Pav.. the Pavster of Phidar p...@phidar.traveller.com
: Come MUD on ME! http://gw.traveller.com/~phidar
: Phidar..When you are blinded by the Bright Light. phidar.traveller.com:9000
Tsk.. tsk... not only do you rip off Medievia in your game at Phidar, you
take it even further by copying my sig.... but that's ok.. how
does that saying go.. immitation is the purest form of flattery or
something like that.
Smooches... :)
Sulty
--
Sultress
: - bleah alot of stuff clipped
: Tried it. you cant loot the talisman from people. It's okee tho. i just
: take everything else they have. kinda hard to play with just one piece of
: eq no matter how good it is.
: -Ansi(Da repo man) :P
Spank Ansi
Sultress
: And once more, forget the fact that its a "donation" or Vryce need money to buy
: 64 megs of ram (amazingly enough, not even Sneezy, or Jedi at its peak used
: that much...sneezy more so..which was the most intricatley coded mud..to the
: point of disgustingness...) its illegal to use diku based muds to make a
: profit. So i guess that how you determine profit come up next. They defend
: themeselves by saying that its used for the mud, so its not a profit...on the
: other hand, i highly doubt that the machine is never or never will be used for
: anything else...if he even types a resume on it once, he used mud money for
: profit...
Whether or not you think our reasons for needing more memory are valid or
not, is meaningless. WE think we do. There is a ton of new code in the
game and even more planned. Medievia is changing ALL the time. In order
to keep the players from feeling any lag associated with recompiling, or
off-line editing/maintenance, we need more.
: as for the valhalla statement, taking donations would be ok in my eye, because
: (if im correct) valhalla is NOT based on diku.
Geeeze.. Valhalla IS diku... DikuII, which is by the original diku team.
They can do whatever they want... it is THEIR code.
Sultress
Sultress
: Well, We can imagine all day. The fact remains that not only did
: he offer this, he posted publicly that he would offer it because he
: wasn't getting enough donations.
: Anyways, If Vryce keeps the memory after the mud shuts down (no mud
: lasts for ever), Is that not a gain for him since he didn't have to
: pay the full load of the memory? Isnt' that a 'profit'. And isnt' that
: aginst both word and spirit of the Diku agreement?
At the rate that technology changes, when Medievia ceases to exist, i
doubt the memory is worth a fraction of what it costs. At that time, we
can determine whether or not a profit has been made. You're right, no mud
lasts forever, those who donate know this too. Most of those that have
donated tell me that they did it for the enjoyment/hours they have
already had and because they want to see it do even better. Even still..
Medievia will be around for a long time.
: Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Go play somewhere else.
: Better game, Better prices. That is unless you do want to pay more for your
: muffler... But thats another story.
You forgot to include your address Pav... Phidar phidar.traveller.com 9000
There.. i did it for ya... i wouldn't call it "better" but it's ok.. ;P
Sulty
John Molea
>take it even further by copying my sig.... but that's ok.. how
>does that saying go.. immitation is the purest form of flattery or
>something like that.
Tough to rip something off that isnt original to begin with. You guys are just
jealous because our maze code works and yours doesnt :)
Sultress
: I gotta admit, you have become quite good at pushing this 'donation' policy
: sultress. You use it, because you know you cant make a profit. So you mince
: words, and claim no profit is being made, because "its all being put back into
: the mud". Like i said, you are quite good at changing peoples words by
: insulting them, and attempting to make them look stupid. I salute you, you
: would make a good lawyer. However, speaking as someone who does know a bit
: about the law, you are standing on REALLY shakey legal ground. It would be up
: to you guys to proove that NO profit was made in the least. Computer and site
: dont qualify, unless they are NEVER EVER used for anything but the mud, and
: NEVER will be. (i find this highly doubtful). Considering you paid nothing
: for the code, you are going to have a hard time saying that no money was made).
Changing someone's insulting remark to me to show their stupidity is a no
no, huh? I should just sit back and let you and everyone else call me
names and slam me and say nothing, hmm? Well for the most part, i do.
However sometimes the idiocy is just tooo much to let slide by. So sue
me. I'm human too.. (please.. save your comments for someone who cares)
As for the no profit thing, if and when the time comes, it will be
proved. Your doubts as to the use of the machine are meaningless, it will
be harder to prove that there IS a profit being made, as there is not.
: But, itll never be taken to court, we both know that. So youll have more time
: to plan your rebuttles to all the anti-medivia talk.
Plan rebuttles? I don't plan them i just respond as i read, when i have
the time and the inclination.
: I wonder if you guys remember when it was another IMP that made MEdevia
: supreme, and when you guys pissed him off, he screed with your files, and you
: were down for a major long time...no probably not.
Which imp was that? Highlander? Who ever it was, it was before my time.
: Others of us remember that medevia has always depended on others, and refused
: to give credit where its due.
Sniff... oh stop.. you're bringing tears to my eyes.
Sultress, the bitch.
Sultress
: : <Sultress gives you a cookie and pats you on the head>
: But he didn't donate any money? Why the favors? Sheeesh!
Geeeze... we treat everyone nice.. regardless..
: Ummmmm.. What happens when Medievia shuts down and all? When Vryce gets
: tired of maintaining the machinery? He going to sell the parts -and-
: refund back all the money donated? I don't think so.. He does whatever
: with the machinery. And guess what? Thats profit!
When that time comes, we'll figure it out then.. If we lived by "what
if.." nothing would ever change or improve.
Sultress
Schultz, Russell
s...@netcom.com (Sultress) writes:
> As far as your answer to my question, unless there has been a trial,
> there is no crime here. Just because you and others here don't like it,
> doesn't make it illegal.
Duuuh...so its ok to kill people until you go to trial; then it
suddenly becomes wrong?
Please, just say "i'm sorry", and fix the problem these pathetic
excuses are just plain painful.
Russ/Poo...@ronin.bchs.uh.edu 5000
where it takes a trial by peers to be GUILTY, but only one ass to
commit a crime.