Ollie Lounella's tournament report from IGS's early years (1993)
Harry Sigerson
http://www.pandanet.co.jp/English/essay/history1993.html
That link takes you to the page.
The next quote, from that link,...
"(There is a nicely written report on the tournament by Olli, as well
as the game records of the 382 finished games, available on the ftp
site of ftp://ftp-igs.joyjoy.net/Go/igs/ mcm93*.)"
...the following bit of that ftp that shows up on the page as a
link is...
ftp://ftp-igs.joyjoy.net/Go/igs
This takes me to a page...
"Index of ftp://ftp-igs.joyjoy.net/Go/igs"
...and a list of files, all of which end in .z
There is a bunch of these that fill the bill as mcm93* files
one of which is mcm93rpt.z, and is probably Ollie Lounella's report.
I should by this time know how to deal with .z file endings;
which shows just how powerful the www and http routes are to
ordinary users of PCs.
I've searched and found this link...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Ftp/uncompress.html#Z
...and half way down there is a section...
"Uncompress *.Z files"
...is the description there of how to do this, up to the
minute? Or is there a more 'direct' <s> route? If not then I daresay
getting the "comp430d.zip" file is the way to go; and as for the
'pkunzip' part of things, whenever I've any zipping or unzipping of
files to do (mainly un-zipping of CAD drawing files) I usually just
use the XP Pro facility.
As I said just a 'user' of these wonderful machines.
I do use the Firefox browser and have their FireFTP plug-in,
which I've never used.
noj...@gmail.com
Just download and install WinZip, and that will handle the .Z files for
you.
http://www.winzip.com/downauto.cgi?o=1&file=winzip100.exe&email=
NJ
Harry Sigerson wrote:
<SNIP>
Harry Sigerson
> you.
>
I haven't used WinZip since changing over to XP Pro from Win98SE.
It's a pity that XP doesn't handle the .Z files.
I see that the exact link you gave to get WinZip goes straight to a
download page for a version that is specifically called, "WinZip
Companion for Outlook".
There is also on that same download page, another download called
simply, "WinZip".
I just wondered if being able to access .Z files is peculiar to the
"WinZip Companion for Outlook" version? I've downloaded the executable
for that to a folder for WinZip that I made for that earlier version I
used to use.
I notice that the old file is called winzip90.exe while your
newer one is called winzip100.exe ; from which I might infer that it
is just a later version of WinZip and the 'Companion for Outlook' part on
the download page is just more smoke.
I have never used 'MS Outlook'.
Thanks again,
Harry.
noj...@gmail.com
The link is for the newest WinZip version, 10.
What you see about WinZip Companion for Outlook is just a banner ad
that they have placed in the downloads page, advertising a different
product that they also make. Nothing to do with the actual download.
So, just install that version 10, and you'll be able to open those .Z
files (plus many others :-)
Have a good one,
NJ
Harry Sigerson wrote:
>
> I see that the exact link you gave to get WinZip goes straight to a
> download page for a version that is specifically called, "WinZip
> Companion for Outlook".
<SNIP>
>
> Thanks again,
> Harry.
Aidan Karley
> ...is the description there of how to do this, up to the
> minute? Or is there a more 'direct' <s> route? If not then I daresay
> getting the "comp430d.zip" file is the way to go; and as for the
> 'pkunzip' part of things, whenever I've any zipping or unzipping of
> files to do (mainly un-zipping of CAD drawing files) I usually just
> use the XP Pro facility.
>
From the extension, I'd have thought they'd be 'normal' zipped
files, using the "deflate" algorithm that goes back to somewhere near
the dawn of time. But to my surprise my normal compression/ archiving
tool (the normally competent 7-zip) doesn't recognise the files either.
So it's not just you.
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57d10' , -02d09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Written at Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:48 GMT
dajava
A very famous Korean freeware to open compressed files.
http://www.altools.net/Downloads/DownloadALZip/tabid/88/Default.aspx
(a part of http://www.altools.net/)
It is a freeware and you do not have to register to use it
(Registration is for additional services)
dajava,
Harry Sigerson
> files (plus many others :-)
>
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> A very famous Korean freeware to open compressed files.
>
> http://www.altools.net/Downloads/DownloadALZip/tabid/88/Default.aspx
>
> (a part of http://www.altools.net/)
>
> It is a freeware and you do not have to register to use it
> (Registration is for additional services)
>
Quite recently, within the last couple of weeks, someone - it may
have been your goodself as the wording of that last bit of your post,
"It is a freeware... and about not having to register it unless you
need additional services, rang a bell in this malfunctioning memory.
I liked the look of it, the Altools home page, so clean and bright
with the little avatars for each of the offered service applications.
If the apps are as good as the presentation they will suit this PC
user.
One has to be a complete fan of broadband - even more of a one if
only it was free of all those clever clogs who write destructive code
just because they can.
As an aging cynic I've wondered if some of the houses selling
protective software against such attacks are also employing the
'attack' writers; then as I said, a cynic - and ill-informed.
Thanks again,
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> But to my surprise my normal compression/ archiving
> tool (the normally competent 7-zip) doesn't recognise the files either.
> So it's not just you.
>
Your 'normal' archiving tool, the "...competent 7-zip)..."; there
must be stacks of these unzipping tools out there. That one, '7-zip' I've
never heard of which is fair enough in my case; once I've got something
that works I stick with it.
For example, not withstanding the good advice of Robert, from
'Another Place', I admit to not having this machine's data well backed up.
It is not a fast machine but it does the job for me. It's the only 'jewel'
in this box's firmament, (gotta mix a meta-phor two), is its 120GB Western
Digital 7,200rpm 'Caviar' hard drive. The 734MHz CPU and 512MByte of the
now very old-hat SDRAM (none of yer DDR of DDR2 here, man <s> - says he
bravely). Well, I bought, very recently, within the last couple of weeks
one of those external, USB connected, hard-drives-in-a-box, by Safecom.
It's called up on the invoice as, "Seagate 160GB IDE/PATA 3·5" 7200rpm
hard drive Safecom USB2·0 Firewire combo 3·5" hard drive enclosure" {that
last part to describe the additional tiny circuit board and aluminium box
in which it's contained}. It's more than big enough for my purposes and
though this box only runs the slower USB1·0 that is not of any consequence
since I don't mind as long as the stuff on this PC is backed up.
Now, here's the nub - eventually. I simply want to fire everything
that is on the 2# HDDs in this PC, onto the Safecom HDD - in a wanny, as
they say in these parts. The idea being that if (or should that be,
'when') the working Western Digital and/or its wee pal, a Seagate 10GB
5400rpm HDD go belly-up, all I have to do is fire the stuff from what will
be the regularly backed-up Safecom back onto the replacement WD.
Now to do this I had a look at the Help section of my XP Pro and came
up with...
ms-its:C:\WINDOWS\Help\ntbackup.chm::/ntbackup_backup_options.htm
...and printed it out.
Reading through it, it looks to me, like the way to go to do this
sort of total-emergency fail-safe.
At present the 120GB Western Digital is partitioned into four equal
sized volumes as NTFS partitions, C, D, E and F [occupying 80% of the WD];
then the wee 10GB Seagate has partitions G and H on it.
Let me say that most of these partitions, except 'C' are for not
anywhere near full; even 'C' is only some 60% full and there is a spare
fifth of the WD still unused.
Now I've wondered about this next. When such an arrangement for
backup described, fires all the information contained in those 6#
partitions of this PC onto something like the Safecom external unit, by
say the actions described in that Help web-page link above (given they are
the ones to take), does the backup only copy the actual information or
does it backup that information _and_ all of the much greater amount of
empty space in the partitioned areas? Not that I'm unduly bothered by that
at this stage, I simply want a workable fail-safe.
Robert from the 'Other Place' quite some time ago was enthusiastic,
in one of its threads, about Acronis backup-software. [I kept his post on
that (and the one he did on Linux)].
I've rambled on a bit; what else is new <s>, but I think I am on the
right path.
I shall be asking the Safecom Support this question too but often
what is for me something to hesitate over is a skoosh for the cognoscente
of computer hardware.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
Yes, ALZip is very easy to use and quick.
The report is up here for reading.
Harry.
dajava
Altools is a freeware and it makes money.
Very interesting!
for example, Alsee has a small banner which guides its users to its
internet digital print shop.
If you open a photo file, say, your family, and and want a
high-quality printouts, you may want to use the service.
And its game site charges about 25 dollars a month.
http://www.cabal.co.kr
(no service in English)
altools and cabal are part of estsoft
http://www.estsoft.com/en/
dajava,
Michael Alford
Hello to all reading this thread, I have some info:
"with UNIX, Linux, and MacOSX (terminal), a file with a
.z ending means the file was compressed under UNIX, Linux, or
MacOSX. To compress, use compress filename, and to uncompress
use uncompress filename . I noticed this is big topic in
rgg. Please educate them in rgg with the compress and uncompress
commands.
However, poor Windows users will have to use some
kind of archiving tool. I have not tried to see if the Windows
command prompt will have 'uncompress', or some similar
command (try help under command prompt of DOS)"
I tried this, using the command prompt on Windows, and it doesn't
recognize "compress". However, if memory serves, I think I've opened
these types of files with WinZip, or some such.
Michael
Harry Sigerson
> Altools is a freeware and it makes money.
>
Which is a nicely gauged arrangement.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> with UNIX, Linux, and MacOSX (terminal), a file with a
> ..z ending means the file was compressed under UNIX, Linux, or
> MacOSX. To compress, use compress filename, and to uncompress
> use uncompress filename.
>
Now that is good to know.
My son is a Macophile, though the last time I was talking to him
his Mac was running on OS9. It seemed at the time the cost of OS10
was a bit much for him. Still last time I was at his place he had got
himself a better Mac, due to upgrading of machines at the college
where he teaches. It may have OS10?
I'll look forward to the compress/uncompress way of doing it on
this machine - if I ever get round to putting Linux on it.
Harry.
Aidan Karley
> Your 'normal' archiving tool, the "...competent 7-zip)..."; there
> must be stacks of these unzipping tools out there.
> That one, '7-zip' I've
> never heard of which is fair enough in my case; once I've got something
> that works I stick with it.
>
It comes with the OpenCD (http://www.theopencd.org/), arguably the
premier collection of Open Source software for Windows machines. Worth an
investigation. Which reminds me to update my copy.
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57d10' , -02d09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Written at Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:37 GMT
Matti Siivola
> All,
>
> http://www.pandanet.co.jp/English/essay/history1993.html
> That link takes you to the page.
>
> The next quote, from that link,...
> "(There is a nicely written report on the tournament by Olli, as well
You had Olli's name correctly in this text, yet you put it wrong in the
title. Why? In this title you see how to write the name.
Matti Siivola
Harry Sigerson
> It comes with the OpenCD (http://www.theopencd.org/), arguably the
> premier collection of Open Source software for Windows machines. Worth an
> investigation. Which reminds me to update my copy.
>
Thanks for that link.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> It comes with the OpenCD (http://www.theopencd.org/), arguably the
> premier collection of Open Source software for Windows machines. Worth an
> investigation. Which reminds me to update my copy.
>
From the look I've just had at that link, I'll say it's worth an investigation.
There is a bit of the site, 'Questions 7 Answers' that advocates checking the
integrity of the file...
http://www.theopencd.org/QuestionsAndAnswers#head-1c892958f16de5a5b7905f1247fd02134b15
eb9f
...sending you to...
http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/md5.php
...in which there is this bit...
>> You will need to download the following file:
* md5sum.exe (48 KB)
Put it into your system folder (c:\windows\command for Win95/98/ME or
c:\winnt\system32 for NT/2K/XP). Alternatively, you can just put it in the same folder
as the ISO and MD5 files. If you do that, though, it will not be available
system-wide.<<
...well, this is probably trivial but in this my XP Pro o/s I only have a
folder...
C:\WINDOWS\system32
...that looks like it may be fit the bill. I suspect that the
"c:\winnt\system32" in that above instruction is what the relevant file would look
like in 'NT' or in the Win2000 (the 2K mentioned). That *being* the case then how to
use the file me5sum.exe file is quite clear. *Is* this the case?
================
Another item looking at the list of goodies in 'The OpenCD' there is the name
Ubuntu. I only came across that the other day. I was looking in 'The Linux Emporium'
site at...
http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/
...in there for a quick lust over their Thinkpad T43s. The Linux Emporium pushes
their sale, set with Linux. After I'd pushed my tongue back in behind the teeth,
further reading there came up with the name Ubuntu - sounded like an African tribe. I
formed the idea that it is a version of Linux - I think I formed wrongly since The
OpenCD says in that same Q&A section that, "There are no plans for a Linux edition"
unless I have misread things. Google will tell...
It is a Linux - after all that. So that being the case, do you use Ubuntu? My
plan - given that I ever get round to using Linux - was to go for SuSE (the v10.1 of
which is due out in April). Why SuSE? Well, it'll come in a box with helpful books and
discs <s>; it's German well it was - I suppose it still is even though gathered to the
Novell bosom (which probably says a lot for some clear thinking Novellian board).
Anyway enough wandering.
Do tell me if I've got that, C:\WINDOWS\system32 location for the md5sum.exe
file correct.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> You had Olli's name correctly in this text, yet you put it wrong in the
> title. Why? In this title you see how to write the name.
>
You lost me slightly there. Where you say I've got his name wrong in
the title, you must mean in the Subject line in he header? This great OLR
'Virtual Access' lets me use the key 'H' to toggle through, full-header, a
short-header and no-header which last is where it mostly stays.
Looking at that subject line I've written the man's name as "Olli
Lounella"; which you say is wrong in that, 'title'. Yet you add that I
have it correctly written in the text.
The thing is that in the text the only part of his name that I used
is his first name, 'Olli'; hence my puzzlement.
When it comes to names I have to say that I have a thing about
getting them correct. This stems from the inability of so very many
Englishmen or for that matter so very many Americans to get my name
correct, either in spelling or in pronunciation but especially the latter.
I am a Scotsman (or Scotchman which notwithstanding what anyone may
tell you otherwise is just as acceptable) but my surname is probably
Icelandic. Yours at a guess I'd say is Finish? I'd guess Olli's as
Swedish? Why do I think that? It rings a bell in that it sounds like the
name of a Sibelius piece, 'The Swans of Tuanella'? Hang on... wrong, that
should be, 'The Swan of Tuonela' -- anyway, Swedish.
Accents, spoken, and names as written are if not a passion with me
are of great interest; unfortunately, I only speak the one language,
English but am very pro Europe's bandspread of languages.
Harryu.
Aidan Karley
> ...sending you to...
> http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/md5.php
> ...in which there is this bit...
>
> >> You will need to download the following file:
> * md5sum.exe (48 KB)
>
Open up a command prompt and navigate to that folder. (So,
putting it in a folder like "d:\temp" is a lot easier than if you put
it in a folder like C:\very\long\path\with\"some non-dos
long"\file\names) . Then, still at the command prompt, do a quick "dir"
to check that you're in the rught part of the file system and you
should have the md5sum.exe program's name and details (size, date)
printed out. Then execute the md5sum program with the switch "-?" to
check the syntax. My version prints out:
> S:\Utils>md5 -?
>
> MD5 -- Calculate MD5 signature of file. Call
> with md5 [ options ] [file ...]
>
> Options:
> -csig Check against sig, set exit status 0 = OK
> -dtext Compute signature of text argument
> -l Use lower case letters for hexadecimal digits
> -n Do not show file name after sum
> -ofname Write output to fname (- = stdout)
> -u Print this message
> -v Print version information
>
> by John Walker -- http://www.fourmilab.ch/
> Version 2.0 (2003-04-15)
>
> This program is in the public domain.
>
(There are many implementations of the MD5 hashing algorithm.
You may have a different version. This shouldn't matter - the algorithm
is well defined.)
So, having just downloaded the current version of theOpenCD
myself, and put it in folder S:\TheOpenCD-3.1.iso, I have the following
conversation with the machine (I added the system time to the command
line prompt too, because I'm busy burning a DVD over on the Unix box
that hosts drive S, and I'm wondering how long it'll take to read the
700MB file, process it and spit out the result.)
Dum, de dum ...
> S:\Utils
> 21:18:14.31>md5 S:\TheOpenCD-3.1.iso
> 061A3FE60D69041B81E1FEC5657F1FCB S:\TheOpenCD-3.1.iso
>
> S:\Utils
> 21:46:38.90>
>
And from one of the download sites the MD5 checksum is given as
(drumroll please ... thank you, Maestro)
061a3fe60d69041b81e1fec5657f1fcb *TheOpenCD-3.1.iso
OK - I should have used the -l option above (force the
hexadecimal digits to present as lowercase characters).
I'm assuming that you know how checksums work.
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57d10' , -02d09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Harry Sigerson
> Do tell me if I've got that, C:\WINDOWS\system32 location for the md5sum.exe
> file correct.
>
I assumed that I had this figured correctly and proceeded without hearing from
you. It all seemed to go quite well, the downloading of 'TheOpenCD'; and it appears
that I did the right thing(s) with the md5sum.exe.
In that web page http://www.theopencd.org/ in the 'Questions' section for
the #2 question, "What do I do once I've downloaded the files?" there's a linking
phrase that takes you to...
http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/md5.php
...in which you are given details of how to set up and use the file
md5sum.exe.
You'll see that they favour this exe file being put into the System32 folder;
that I've read as the C:\WINDOWS\system32\
I copied and pasted md5sum.exe into that systems folder and always -
expecting something to go wrong - checking to see if it was there in that folder. I
could not find it, using Start=>Search. I thought I'd muffed it so I did it again
but this time XP Pro told me that file md5sum was already there and did I want to
overwrite it. I did that but still could not see any sign of it nor did Search,
find it. I suppose that it must have become one of those hidden files?
Anyway, I downloaded 'TheOpenCD'. It is the version v3.1; and made two CDs of
it one for a friend and on opening it from my CD-ROM, there was the whole megillah
--- nicely displayed by ALZip and there in its 'Name' column of the contents was a
file called md5sum.txt ; this had two columns next to it 'Compressed Size' and
'Original Size' both with the exact same number 78464 against them, so I suppose
that means the the checksum done by md5sum is fine.
All of these actions were done so very quickly; at least so it seeme to me
considering that this m/c is not among swiftest of cpus at 734Mhz. I haven't
installed any of these applications but looking at the sizes of the files given by
ALZip for each of the programs they have to be, all of them, complete.
The CD file 'TheOpenCD-3.1.iso' is sized by Windows Explorer at 465MB on
the CD disc itself, which should fill up at least 2/3rds of the disc. This is a bit
of a puzzle when looking at the recorded side of the CD. Do CDs get recorded from
the outside edge on inward toward the centre? That's what I think happens but the
'marked' area of the disk seems to belie this.
I'd better install at least one of these applications to see if it works...
=====
...ah, there is a big whoops now. I've used the 'Gimp' game as a test
installantion trying to do it directly from the CD in the CD-ROM. What happens is
that a black Command screen pops up for a few seconds and then disappears.
=====
It's now tomorrow <s> and I used ALZip to extract, TheOpenCD-3.1.iso file
in place, i.e., in the same folder where I'd saved this download file. ALZip did
not protest so there is a great deal of bytes in that folder.
However, as one might expect the same thing occured when I tried to run 'Gimp'
as a test install -- the black Command screen, again blank with nothing on it;
there for a few seconds then, nothing.
All the appearances of success till suck it and see time.
Any clues as to what I'm doing wrong? I'll read over the Downloading section
in that
Harry Sigerson
> Put the file *anywhere* in your file system.
>
I've just this minute, this morning, read the email the above
quote identifies.
I'll set about reading it in detail now.
In sending this off - it is just to send, on the same blink, my
account of what happened last night.
As you'll read, I hope <s>, it looked like success all the way
and then at the end, nada.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> I thought I'd muffed it so I did it again
> but this time XP Pro told me that file md5sum was already there and did I want to
> overwrite it. I did that but still could not see any sign of it nor did Search,
> find it. I suppose that it must have become one of those hidden files?
>
I am wrong in that; the file md5sum.exe is neatly esconced in
C:\windows\system32 -- as indicated on the ALZip info page, on my doing the
extraction of the iso.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> is neatly esconced
>
Or even, 'ensconced'.
H.
Aidan Karley
> the CD disc itself, which should fill up at least 2/3rds of the disc.
size and 654 MB (685,858,920 bytes) when zipped. On my compressed NTFS partition, I
see 663 MB (695,267,328 bytes) "size on disc". Sounds like you've got a partial
download. what MD5 checksum do you get for your file?
> This is a bit
> of a puzzle when looking at the recorded side of the CD. Do CDs get recorded from
> the outside edge on inward toward the centre? That's what I think happens but the
> 'marked' area of the disk seems to belie this.
>
No, they're written from the centre outwards. Haven't you seen the "business
card" size CDs? which can fit around 40 MB of data (CV, presentation of your product,
whatever) onto a more-or-less standard size bit of plastic.
> ...ah, there is a big whoops now. I've used the 'Gimp' game as a test
> installantion trying to do it directly from the CD in the CD-ROM. What happens is
> that a black Command screen pops up for a few seconds and then disappears.
>
GIMP isn't a toy - it's a fully-featured Image Manipulation Program, part of
the GNU project - spot the acronym. Like PhotoShop, but some hundreds of pounds per
copy cheaper, and Free.
If you've only got an incomplete d/l of the CD image, then things not
installing shouldn't be a surprise.
Do you have a BitTorrent client? The BitTorrent protocol includes a number of
techniques to check that you get a full download of the file in question.
[This mechanics of downloading, checking, etc isn't really R.G.G territory.]
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57d10' , -02d09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Written at Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:03 GMT
-
Aidan Karley <doIlookDAFT...@validEMAILaddressTOa.NEWS.group> wrote:
> ... [This mechanics of downloading, checking, etc isn't really R.G.G territory.]
I don't see why not. MD5 checksumming isn't always reliable, having a
few chinks/cracks, collision generator: http://www.stachliu.com/md5coll.c
papers online at: http://cryptography.hyperlink.cz/MD5_collisions.html
Collision exploit: If MD5(x) == MD5(y) then MD5(x+q) == MD5(y+q) .
-( see: http://www.codeproject.com/dotnet/HackingMd5.asp )-
Much more being discussed at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5
More types of tests available via: http://www.slavasoft.com/fsum/
It is possible that a combination of tests achieves unique signature
for all of our practical purposes (within multi-terabyte boundaries).
- regards
- jb
--------------------------------------------------------------------
More extensive checksumming application (with other procedures):
Results 1 - 100 of about 62,600 for md5sum recursive download check
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=md5sum+recursive+download+check&num=100&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Harry Sigerson
> ...Sounds like you've got a partial
> download. what MD5 checksum do you get for your file?
Re the MD5 checksum: The ALZip info page on completing the download gave the number
78464 in each of its columns 'Compressed Size' & 'Original Size', against the row marked,
md5sum. Perhaps as you say it is partial - see below.
> No, they're written from the centre outwards. Haven't you seen the "business
> card" size CDs? which can fit around 40 MB of data (CV, presentation of your product,
> whatever) onto a more-or-less standard size bit of plastic.
Now that's good to know; in which case the information that is 'TheOpenCD-3.1.iso',
copied onto the 675MB CD disc occupies all but the outer 7 or 8 mm of its of its radius.
With the CD in the CD-ROM, Windows Explorer tells me that there is 465MB of recording on
it. That would seem to indicate that the whole thing is there.
> GIMP isn't a toy - it's a fully-featured Image Manipulation Program, part of
> the GNU project - spot the acronym. Like PhotoShop, but some hundreds of pounds per
> copy cheaper, and Free.
Good to know and to have when I get it working. I bought digital camera about half a
year ago, it came with ''ACDSee' for Pentax' as part of the package - which is mostly
used for viewing building site photographs.
> If you've only got an incomplete d/l of the CD image, then things not
> installing shouldn't be a surprise.
I'd accept that conclusion and on inspection, my dilemma was that everything had
happened just as described on 'TheOpenCD' 'box'. The only new, to me, thing, was the file
extension, .iso, of the download... TheOpenCD-3.1.iso ...but ALZip seemed to know
what it was doing, even if I didn't and on the HDD it extracted all of that .iso d/l into
the same location - where it is stored - as a whole series of folders. One of these is
called 'Program' and inside that there is another series of folders named after each of
the various application such as '7-zip'. Inside each of those 17 folders there is what
looks to me like an executable (self-installer) file. For example... 7zipSetup.exe ...
and that particular one for example has a file size of 1.02MB. In fact each of the 17#
applications' setup executables has a sensible looking file size, e.g., Gimp's is 7.56MB.
I thought that was the successful end of the exercise and all that needed to be done
with these executables was to double-click or 'open' whichever one them I might want to
use. It didn't work; I got the black command screen with, for a second or two the
flashing dash then the command screen disappeared. That's where I left it and first
posted you.
Now I wonder if perhaps those .exe files have to be tackled differently?
If now (since getting ALZip) I right-click any of these .exe I get offered...
"Run as...
ALZip Self-Extractor (EXE)"
...which might mean it's a self-extracting file, but one that has to be started to
work by some particular aspect peculiar to ALZip -- this is not usual to me.
I try to avoid anything that might banjax this machine. There is too much on it that
simply *has* to keep going no matter what; which is a real dampener of any
'suck-it-and-see' tendencies I might have <s>.
> [This mechanics of downloading, checking, etc isn't really R.G.G territory.]
I found myself thinking this before I sent that first post; but thought you'd home
in on whatever was the missing bit since the TheOpenCD d/l procedure is familiar to you.
Harry.
Aidan Karley
> The only new, to me, thing, was the file
> extension, .iso, of the download... TheOpenCD-3.1.iso
>
defined from the good ol' ISO ... and I'm having a temporary brain-fade on the standard
number - 6960 ? Is a temporary brain fade on an ISO standard number acceptable on Sunday
morning?
> It didn't work; I got the black command screen with, for a second or two the
> flashing dash then the command screen disappeared. That's where I left it and first
> posted you.
> Now I wonder if perhaps those .exe files have to be tackled differently?
>
executing it's startup code. Probably your windows environment is missing some elements of
that environment - not-set environment variables for example.
Just burn the CD, and install from that. I actually keep a couple of re-writable
CDs in my briefcase with the current version on them, and on the rig I just give people
the discs. "If you don't like it, you still get to keep the RW. If you do like it, copy
the disc and give it to a friend. And it is totally legal. TOTALLY!"
> > [This mechanics of downloading, checking, etc isn't really R.G.G territory.]
> I found myself thinking this before I sent that first post; but thought you'd home
> in on whatever was the missing bit since the TheOpenCD d/l procedure is familiar to you.
>
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57d10' , -02d09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Harry Sigerson
> Just burn the CD, and install from that. I actually keep a couple of re-writable
> CDs in my briefcase with the current version on them, and on the rig I just give people
> the discs.
>
I've got a couple of CD's burned; one for a friend.
That was the first thing I did on getting the download.
> Probably your windows environment is missing some elements of
> that environment - not-set environment variables for example.
>
I suspect that might be the reason.
I am using XP Pro. By and large I get no trouble from it.
I'll maybe raise this again in the HoL's Chatter section.
Harry.
Antti Holappa
instead:
> Looking at that subject line I've written the man's name as "Olli
> Lounella"; which you say is wrong in that, 'title'. Yet you add that I
> have it correctly written in the text.
This is funny, since it actually read "Ollie Lounnella". So, an extra E with
double N and L.
> I am a Scotsman (or Scotchman which notwithstanding what anyone may
> tell you otherwise is just as acceptable) but my surname is probably
> Icelandic. Yours at a guess I'd say is Finish? I'd guess Olli's as
> Swedish? Why do I think that? It rings a bell in that it sounds like the
> name of a Sibelius piece, 'The Swans of Tuanella'? Hang on... wrong, that
> should be, 'The Swan of Tuonela' -- anyway, Swedish.
I assume that you are trolling here, since the only famous Swedish composer
made drinking songs :-p
Cheers,
"Antii"
PS. Relevance to go is that Olli used to teach me go a couple of years ago.
--
"I'm not saying what I'm saying. I'm not saying what I'm *thinking*.
For that matter, I'm not even *thinking* what I'm thinking."
-Captain John Sheridan in the B5 episode 'A Race Through Dark Places'
Roy Schmidt
> Harry Sigerson <harrys...@ntlworld.com> writes to Matti and I
> reply
> instead:
>> I am a Scotsman (or Scotchman which notwithstanding what
>> anyone may
>> tell you otherwise is just as acceptable) but my surname is
>> probably
>> Icelandic. Yours at a guess I'd say is Finish? I'd guess Olli's as
>> Swedish? Why do I think that? It rings a bell in that it sounds
>> like the
>> name of a Sibelius piece, 'The Swans of Tuanella'? Hang on...
>> wrong, that
>> should be, 'The Swan of Tuonela' -- anyway, Swedish.
>
> I assume that you are trolling here, since the only famous Swedish
> composer
> made drinking songs :-p
And Antti trolls back :-). Mr. Sigerson such look at
http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/sibelius.html (Grove's Dictionary
entry)
or any of the other many Web resources about Finland's greatest
composer.
O.B. Go: Olli once thrashed me at nine stones, but maybe it was the
beer :-P
Cheers, Roy
--
my reply-to address is gostoned at insightbb dot com
-------------------------------------------------
The Bradley Go Association meets Tuesday evenings from 6:30
at Jester's Coffee, 1222 W. Bradley Ave., adjacent to the
Bradley University campus in Peoria.
Harry Sigerson
> This is funny, since it actually read "Ollie Lounnella". So, an extra E with
> double N and L.
Honest Injun, I'm not 'trolling' at least I don't think I am. I'll have
to look up a definition; the English word 'trawling' keeps intruding.
On the wee Oxford English Dictionary on this PC 'trolling' gets no
results. Of course it does come up with a meaning for 'troll'; from
Scandinavian folklore - "a giant or dwarf living in a cave".
All I wanted to get was the correct spelling of a Mr Ollie's full name; a
simple almost Occam's Razor-ish post.
Hang on, Dictionary.com comes up with for 'troll', 'to fish by trailing
a baited line behind a slowly moving boat'. Well, that is not what I do on the
internet, particularly since I don't know the list members individually. In
conversation in the pub with friends a lot of such leg-pulling tactics goes on
but then I know the folk involved so it's all part of the fun. Is 'trolling' on
the internet frowned on or is it perfectly acceptable?
As it stands I still don't know the correct spelling of Ollie's surname.
> > ...should be, 'The Swan of Tuonela' -- anyway, Swedish.
Aaaah sorry, now I get it. The daft 'Swedish' word. I do apologise; of
course Finnish. I have the driving need to say immediately, 'I knew that' as
you do. Occam's Razor again applies; simply - I goofed; for which as an
aficionado for yer man's music, I should be ashamed.
> I assume that you are trolling here, since the only famous Swedish composer
> made drinking songs :-p
Nope, I can't make the connection. Who is he?
> PS. Relevance to go is that Olli used to teach me go a couple of years ago.
I hope that he is a really good teacher.
> "I'm not saying what I'm saying. I'm not saying what I'm *thinking*.
> For that matter, I'm not even *thinking* what I'm thinking."
> -Captain John Sheridan in the B5 episode 'A Race Through Dark Places'
If that quote is meant as an admonishment; I'll take it to heart.
========
Am I wrong or is there a propensity for Finnish first names for men to
start with an 'A'?
In my line of business I recently dealt with the representative of a
Finnish company, Anssi Rissanen; again the doubled-up consonant after the 'n'.
Probably a single 's' there in Finnish would have a different sound?
Harry.
Jouni Karvo
hi,
Harry Sigerson <harrys...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> All I wanted to get was the correct spelling of a Mr Ollie's full name; a
At least you are consistent with your way of spelling :)
> Probably a single 's' there in Finnish would have a different sound?
Not much but could be enough to change the word's meaning (although no
examples come to my mind right now).
yours,
Jouni
Harry Sigerson
> At least you are consistent with your way of spelling :)
And I still don't know if it's correct <s>.
Jim Jarmusch directed a film, 'Night on Earth'; one of the five stories plays
in Helsinki.
Straight questions look, from this end, as things to be treated teeth-drawingly
carefully <s>. (that last sentence is a non sequitur with regard to the first - in
passing)
It was a very good film.
Harry.
Michael Alford
> Jouni,
>
>> At least you are consistent with your way of spelling :)
> And I still don't know if it's correct <s>.
>
If you had bothered with looking around the IGS site, you would know
it's Olli Lounela.
tweet
Here is a picture of Olli Lounela at the World Amateur
Pair Go in Tokyo. (sitting at the laptop with a microphone)
http://www.pairgo.or.jp/amateur/12th/e/hrepoj04.htm
Olli is the network admin for IGS, and he was invited
to Tokyo as a guest along with Jan Van Der Steen and
Peter Strempel. I was there too. :-)
Harry Sigerson
> If you had bothered with looking around the IGS site, you would know
> it's Olli Lounela.
>
Look at that sentence and more particularly look at the
conversational tone of the previous concerning posts from those who
took part in it. A couple of Finnish posters pulling my leg about my
spelling of their national names.
It's a bit like pub-chat, nobody bothers much and banter flows
back and forth. I'll never meet those Finns over a pint; still the
Internet lets the chat flow
Then in comes the censorious, "If you had bothered with..."
I don't doubt for a minute that I could have found such a matching
name somewhere in one or other of the GO servers and the odds would
favour that it would have been the correct Olli.
Nevertheless, thank you for the correct spelling of the man's
name. I'll /probably/ get it right next time.
==========
Michael, are you an American?
Harry.
ian
Michael is indeed a (US) American. If you travel to the Toyota Tour
event in Finland this year you will be able to meet most of those
Finns. Although maybe not Olli himself as he tenukied.
Jeff Nowakowski
> Michael, are you an American?
Harry, are you prejudiced?
-Jeff
Harry Sigerson
> Harry, are you prejudiced?
>
Not particularly at least I hope not.
There are traits or if you like modes in the use of spoken and
written language that are particular to different countries. Those
two and accents I find myself remarking upon or if you like interest
me.
I'm a Scot (despite the Viking<s> surname) but even in this
small country of some 5 million across the width of which is only a
hop, skip and jump in American dimensions, there are variations in
that spoken trait.
Prejudiced? Now as one of the millions who have been raised on
Hollywood movies and in my case from 6 to 12, the WWII passage, I'd
have to say that most of my life I've been prejudiced in favour of
the US. I'm quite a lot less so inclined now.
I lived and worked in London for a few years, as a young man.
That's at an age when practically any big western city would be good
but expensive fun and you felt you could handle any aggro. I'm
prejudiced against the stacking up of all the wealth down there but
that's nothing to do with the US.
I would like us to get rid of Tony Blair yet I vote Labour.
About as close as it's possible to get to a socialist government and
that's just me paying lip-service to it for not being totally Tory.
So I suppose I'm prejudiced against TB; The Guardian's cartoonist
Steve Bell has him well configured as your President's lap dog.
I've never been to America. If the old black and white movies of
my early adult and even earlier <s> years reflect the way America was
then and if today's crop reflect the way it is now then I'd say there
has been a sea-change in the place. Come back 'The Philadelphia
Story' all is forgiven.
Things like the Savings & Loans thievery; and others such, like
the Enron thing seem to confirm this. Though maybe it's always been
like that and the movies have it all wrong <s>.
Forty one million Americans without any Health Insurance in a
land that is so enormously rich is troubling.
Then again, I have relations from a big family, my father's
mother's brother's, who moved to the US a lot of years ago and are
married and distributed widely from Santa Clarita, California to
Lee, Massachusetts. There are others who are in Canada; British
Columbia. These contributions to the US and Canadian gene pool were
made over a period between 35 and 45 years ago.
Prejudice? It's hard to address. What do I know about America
other than from the movies; well there is or should that now be
'was', the news media - American or British - I don't think I'd want
to take their slant as accurate. These industries seem to be fully
bought and paid for by the buyers and payers-for of everything and I
don't think it likely that the reporting is uninfluenced by this
state of affairs, here or 'over-there'. You'll have seen the movie,
only recently released in the UK, 'Good Night and Good Luck', that
for me reflected a better more aware American time - notwithstanding
the hysteria - and was something that needed to be retold to a
younger generation of Americans. It gave me a lift. Prejudiced,
perhaps if I am so indicted it is simply prejudice of an old wrinkly,
who knows.
The names that flood forward are names like Allende, Guatemala,
North, Mai Lai. Then there are the couple of thousand American men
the US is losing in the Middle East not to mention one or two Iraqis;
and I don't think the US is there for the sand.
Then, there are the good American writers, whites, of the middle
of the last century and more such all the way back to Samuel L
Clemens; the more recent black, African-American, contribution in
that field. The arrangements for black Americans in mid-century and
earlier America left a bit to be desired; though with that thought.
'I Have a Dream' races across the screen on the inside my head - so
many such dreams get shot with high-powered rifles.
Then there is Jazz, now that is American and is great (I'll just
click on 'Harlem Airshaft' now - no, I'll just keep on listening to
Hilary Hahn playing Schoenberg on her goesunda between chats with
Radio 3's Sean Rafferty.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/intune/pip/8tusy/
Ah, it seems she has a webpage...
http://www.hilaryhahn.com/
...well, to my untutored ear she really knows how to play that
fiddle.
Yes, I'll plump for 'not particularly'; though it's a big word,
'prejudiced' that is, not, 'particularly'.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> Although maybe not Olli himself as he tenukied.
>
Next thing you know fitba' games will be played, Hame and
Tenuki.
Language, and so it grows.
Harry.
Aidan Karley
[Small side-dish of cynicism admitted, for myself. Harry might
prefer dry sarcasm himself, but that's his serving.
I'll catch this week's bill.
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57d10' , -02d09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Jeff Nowakowski
> Jeff,
>
>
>>Harry, are you prejudiced?
>>
>
> Not particularly at least I hope not.
You sure sound it to me. You seem obsessed with identifying any posts
you don't like as coming from American posters. What's the point? Do
you tally the non-offensive posts by nationality as well? Are you only
focused on Americans, or other nationalities? Have you got some
estimates yet? Are 80% of Americans bad people? What should you do
about it? Treat any you meet badly? Provide aid to Al Qaeda?
> Prejudiced? Now as one of the millions who have been raised on
> Hollywood movies and in my case from 6 to 12, the WWII passage, I'd
> have to say that most of my life I've been prejudiced in favour of
> the US. I'm quite a lot less so inclined now.
Ok, here's something you should know: Hollywood is not an accurate
portrayal of American society. Back in the 50s, American television was
squeaky clean, with Leave it to Beaver being the poster child American
family. That was *not* reality.
> Things like the Savings & Loans thievery; and others such, like
> the Enron thing seem to confirm this. Though maybe it's always been
> like that and the movies have it all wrong <s>.
Yes, corruption has existed in all societies throughout history. WWII?
Here's what the US Secretary of Defense had to say: "LeMay said if we
lost the war that we would have all been prosecuted as war criminals.
And I think he's right."
This is from "The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S.
McNamara". Highly recommended: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317910/
How about other countries? Neutral Switzerland and Nazi loot?
http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/aa072397.htm.
What do people in Northern Ireland think of the British?
Anyways, I'm not going to get into a debate over all the misdeeds of
countries throughout history. The point is that your fixation on
nationality sounds a lot like the racist point of view.
-Jeff
Jouni Karvo
hi,
Jeff Nowakowski <jef...@ccs.neu.edu> writes:
>
> Anyways, I'm not going to get into a debate over all the misdeeds of
> countries throughout history. The point is that your fixation on
> nationality sounds a lot like the racist point of view.
Well, it really does not matter.
If you have not employed at least one female sixty-years-old black
mexican, you are also a racist.
yours,
Jouni
Planar
Jeff Nowakowski <jef...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:
> How about other countries? Neutral Switzerland and Nazi loot?
Godwin's law. Thread over. These are not the war criminals
you are looking for. Move along.
--
Planar
remove .invalid from my address to send me mail
"I really couldn't care less about Japanese rules." - Chris Lawrence
Harry Sigerson
> You sure sound it to me. You seem obsessed with identifying any posts
> you don't like as coming from American posters. What's the point? Do
> you tally the non-offensive posts by nationality as well? Are you only
> focused on Americans, or other nationalities? Have you got some
> estimates yet? Are 80% of Americans bad people? What should you do
> about it? Treat any you meet badly? Provide aid to Al Qaeda?
>
You're leaping to conclusions. Let's look at things from each of our
positions. At your end a bit of text comes onto your screen. Ostensibly it
comes from a guy called Harry Sigerson; in this medium that may or may not
be true. All that I can write on your monitor is that it is true.
If instead of you looking at the text and assuming obsession, if I was
talking to you in person, you'd conclude from my accent, my knobbly knees,
my ankle length kilt and long shoulder plaid and luxuriant red hair that I
was a Scot and then you might say, 'So that's what a Scotsman sounds
like'. Well, the accent and the knees would be accurate enough but none of
the rest.
As I think I said in the earlier post, accents and the different ways
that we use our mostly-held-in-common language are of interest to me. One
of my favourite television programs is 'The Simpsons'. I don't know for
sure who it is who does the voice of the Scottish Janitor at Bart and
Lisa's school but he's great (yes, it's Dan Castellaneta's voice, it's
stagey and its location here, not exactly placeable; then there's Hank
Azaria's Apu that's funny too, when I try that accent it comes out Welsh;
oh yes and the Janitor is called 'Groundkeeper Willie' but it should be
'Wullie').
Well, the way people write has a sort of 'accent' or style. The BBC
shows on its terrestrial channels lots of American show series (you have
to fill time and perhaps they're old shows going cheap). They don't put on
lots of European series because so few people in this country can speak
any other language than one sort of English or other. Yet in each of those
countries they'll have as many regional variations in accent and style as
any other.
For example they broadcast a show here called 'Orange County Chopper'.
I don't know if you know it but it's about a family motorbike builders.
The bikes are glamorously finished custom built machines. I'd not want to
go very fast on one of them. I don't think the show's object is to sell
such bikes in Europe; there are already some manufacturers of fairly quick
bikes here. No. what it sells is a look and a listen to the style and the
use of language among these bike builders and that could only be done by
Americans. I much prefer to watch Valentino Rossi show just how quickly he
can pedal his bike.
I worked for an American firm, Daniels, in Saudi Arabia in the
eighties. It had Americans in its staff from all over the Union. I
windsurfed with a couple of Californians, one quiet laid-back, ex
helicopter pilot with a family at home in that Citrus State, as mine was
home here. One of their Project Engineers came from Colorado a little lad
my height, he wore high-heeled cowboy boots a tall-crowned Stetson-type
hat, large square-buckled belt with a firms logo on it and 41 handguns in
his collection at home, a very pleasant man; he had spent a lot of years
working away from home. Then there were the Daniels' staff that came from
parts local to the firm's head quarters in Greenville, South Carolina;
then there was one man from New York, he played pretty good Jazz trumpet.
The South Carolingians were not too good at mixing in with the foreigners
of whichever political or racial persuasion, whereas the Californians were
easy and windsurfed and joined in with the Brits or the 'TCNs' as they
were called, 'Third Country Nationals'. The Filipinos as TCN were in the
range of lower numbered racial categories. The next highest numbers were
the Europeans and the American passport holders were the highest.
I can honestly say that I enjoyed that time and was intrigued by the
variety. In fact the few, 'Brit Bashers' as they were called came from
among the Greenville area; men of long standing in the company and
curiously enough often third of fourth generation Scots background and
proud of it. It takes a long time for that ancestry to wear off.
Coming back to your para. People react to a direct question in so many
different ways. Over the years I've noticed, though this may be changing
that if you asked a Brit and in particular an English Brit if he is a Tory
you'd get the run around, rarely they'd offer a simple yes or no. Ask the
same of a Labour voter and more often than not you'd get a yes; whether
true or not is another question <s>. It seems to me that if you ask any
right-winger from anywhere, the same sort of question you'll again get the
run around. I am re-starting the reading of a marvellous book by a great
man, recently dead, Arthur Miller. It is called 'Timebends' and is an
autobiography. Well that should make it about the author and it is but
much of it is a biography; if a country can have a 'biography' written
about it.
There is no black and white in this matter, shades of grey yes. Then
that's true about most things that get gauged on small discrete sampling.
It's the old Bell Curve. The only thing is no one wants to 'hear' shades
of grey; they're so difficult to deal with.
I'm told that it's quite common in the USA to be asked direct
questions about religion and such like subjects, whether this is true or
not I don't know - personally. Though I'd say that is much more 'personal'
than asking someone's nationality.
You ask what's the point in my asking; and if I keep a tally; and if I
think that the majority of Americans are 'bad' people? The interesting
thing for me is how different people use and react to what is the
'produce' of a, comparatively speaking, new medium - internet newsgroups.
Mail, that's not as immediate as face-to-face conversation and is not as
remote as snail-mail; which both are between folk who may know each other
quite well. Email, it's more like quick penpal mail where again neither
correspondent knows the other; but this is further complicated by the
dissemination you get on a newsgroup - the new and should be great
addition to communication.
What it does tend to is leaps to things such as my having to *do*
things; treat 'Americans' I meet, badly; contribute to Al Qaeda.
They say that it was Churchill who said the British and Americans are
separated by a common language? Well, that's not so difficult to accept.
The south east of England's English is different in use and sound from
that of Scotland's. You could say that all of the small 'countries' that
make up the American Union have differences in the use of and reaction to
their own *local* 'American' brand of English - I don't know. I've never
lived there.
A relative through marriage, married a French man from the South of
France. They both lived and worked in Paris. In the limited times of
contact, such as going to their South of France wedding, even my almost
non-existent French was enough for me to make out the different regional
reactions.
> What do people in Northern Ireland think of the British?
Now there's a question that would need a much wider ranging set of
parameters than the simple language used hear to get anywhere near an
answer. What I will say is that the people of Northern Ireland will agree
that it has been a good thing for the individual, through all of NI
troubles from 1969 till today, that so many of the folk on the 'mainland'
kept paying taxes to fund the damage-repairs to bodies and properties.
Keeping to the language. In '63 I worked for a Consulting Engineering
firm in London, a fellow Engineer's full name in that firm was Aloysi
Kozlowski (or Koslowski). I think Aloysi is Polish for Aloysius. But
though he was then a man in at least his mid thirties and had lived in
England for many years he spoke English with a strong accent; and on the
phone sometimes franticly as he experienced the inability of South Eastern
English to deal with any except a heavily dipthonged English .
He was called Alex, not Aloysi, whether by default because he had
chosen this or by default because some English man had so named him and he
let it go at that, I don't know. The last part of his name was pronounced
'-ovski' or perhaps the slightly softer '-ofski'; no one ever had any
trouble with this or tried to have it, '-aaowski' as to would have been
said if that part of England had tried for the simple 'ooh dubbya'
dipthong. So here was this, at least bi-lingual competent Engineer who
*nearly* got all of his name pronounced 'correctly'; given that correctly
is as it would have been pronounced in Poland.
Back in Saudi a little earlier than the Daniels job I worked for a
firm in Al Khobar, owned and run, by the big British contractor, Balfour
Beattie Ltd., which in turn was then owned by BICC (British Insulated
Callender's Cables). They were out there out in Saudi set up as 'Design
Contractors' doing work mainly for ARAMCO. All of the head staff were
Brits, mainly Englishmen from all over England and a few Scots; the whole
crew had been Thatchered-to-Saudi.
There was the usual office support staff, all men - no women allowed
by Saudi decree. So our typists, office accountants, were 'TCNs' and our
Mr FixIt was a Saudi Arab. The typists were Indian. Now which of those
TCNs, the Saudi or the Indian. took home the bigger paycheck?
One of the typists was introduced to me as 'George' after a bit you
get to know folk and I asked him, "George what?", and got the 'just
George' treatment. In the event he said that his name was not George. That
on arrival the Architect in charge of that department of the 4-discipline
design practice (Architecture; Civil Engineering; Electrical Engineering;
Mechanical Engineering) and a friend of mine had simply decided that he
would not use the man's given name and that from then on he'd be called
George.
The man's name was Radakrishnan; I asked what his pals at home called
him. It was Rada. That's what I called him from then on; right through the
usual welter of 'Who?', but he got his name back. He, may not have cared
one way or the other and like all of us was only there for the money.
There was quite a bit of that 'colonialist' 'imperial' treatment by
both the Brit and the American 'management'. It diminished as they climbed
through the Saudi Arabs that were even then learning to run their
country's oil industry.
====
So I'll infer from your reply that Jeff Nowakowski is American; and
my guess from your writing that you were, as Mr Springsteen has it, 'Born
in the USA'.
Harry.
P.S. I read the Robert McNamara quotes from the link you gave, thanks
for that. I was and am a fan of the man. His Wikipedia entry is worth a
read...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_McNamara
I don't know if that movie has been released in the UK. The name 'Fog of
War' doesn't ring any bells. Not that that means anything, I live in a fog
of work when I'm not skiving off on the internet.
Robert McNamara: [General Curtis] LeMay said, "Won hell... we lost... we
should go in and... wipe 'em out today."
[McNamara laughs]
Shot fades to the finish of 'Dr Strangelove' and Vera Lynn singing
'We'll meet again, don't know where don't know when' -- to the gentle
puffs of A-bombs doing, what A-bombs do.
Harry Sigerson
> Olli is the network admin for IGS, and he was invited
> to Tokyo as a guest along with Jan Van Der Steen and
> Peter Strempel. I was there too. :-)
>
Some people <s>.
Thanks for the picture.
From the angle it's taken, Mr Lounella looks like a young Dan
Aykroyd.
Harry.
Orne Batmagoo
> If instead of you looking at the text and assuming obsession, if I was
> talking to you in person, you'd conclude from my accent, my knobbly knees,
> my ankle length kilt and long shoulder plaid and luxuriant red hair that I
> was a Scot and then you might say, 'So that's what a Scotsman sounds
> like'. Well, the accent and the knees would be accurate enough but none of
> the rest.
I've always wanted to ask a Scotsman, "Is anything worn under the kilt?"
--
Orne Batmagoo
Rich
> Harry Sigerson wrote:
> Are 80% of Americans bad people? What should you do
> about it? Treat any you meet badly? Provide aid to Al Qaeda?
Is this the Bush "with us or against us" rhetoric? Lumping people who
don't like you with people who take active steps to harm and even
destroy you is hardly conducive to clarity of thought.
People can dislike Americans for all sorts of reasons, including
personal experience; in the same way that people can be favourably
disposed to Americans. All the Americans I've met in the flesh have
been very pleasant, friendly people, although I don't assume it holds
true across the entire society. In fact, I'm sure it doesn't.
I also make general assumptions about people that I haven't met, based
on their nationality/culture. Working with many nationalities, it helps
a lot and generally holds true; you can't talk to a Japanese customer
as directly as you can to a German customer without causing offence,
for example. And the Herr Schmidt will often be exasperated if you talk
as indirectly and allusively as you have to with Honda-san.
Also, why does Harry say that anyway? It seems the assumption on your
side is that he must be prejudiced, rather than that, say, in his
experience most rude people on Usenet are Americans.
> What do people in Northern Ireland think of the British?
Which people? It can make quite a difference who you ask.
> Anyways, I'm not going to get into a debate over all the misdeeds of
> countries throughout history. The point is that your fixation on
> nationality sounds a lot like the racist point of view.
What rot. Nationality and race are totally different. In fact, given
the percentage of Americans that are Germanic and Celtic by 'racial'
origin, he's most assuredly one of you. :)
Culture has a huge effect on communication. Skin colour does not. And
dismissing any criticism of your culture as 'racist' or irrational,
certainly without finding out the reasons behind, does no favours to a
culture which is already seen by many as arrogant.
Regards
Rich
Jeff Nowakowski
> Jeff Nowakowski schreef:
>
>>Are 80% of Americans bad people? What should you do
>>about it? Treat any you meet badly? Provide aid to Al Qaeda?
>
>
> Is this the Bush "with us or against us" rhetoric? Lumping people who
> don't like you with people who take active steps to harm and even
> destroy you is hardly conducive to clarity of thought.
Well, if you are going to try to identify American posters as having
certain negative traits, then the question becomes, to what end? Why do
people get bent out of shape about racists? It's not "with us or
against us", it's "why are you judging me before you even know me?".
> I also make general assumptions about people that I haven't met, based
> on their nationality/culture. Working with many nationalities, it helps
> a lot and generally holds true; you can't talk to a Japanese customer
> as directly as you can to a German customer without causing offence,
> for example. And the Herr Schmidt will often be exasperated if you talk
> as indirectly and allusively as you have to with Honda-san.
Well, I agree, there are cultural norms. However, Harry seemed to have
a chip on his shoulder regarding Americans, and his original follow-up
to my question "Are you prejudiced" confirmed this.
>>What do people in Northern Ireland think of the British?
>
>
> Which people? It can make quite a difference who you ask.
Indeed, good point. Maybe I should ask every poster to Usenet who posts
a bad opinion of the Brits "Are you from Northern Ireland?" And from
that, I may conclude?
>>Anyways, I'm not going to get into a debate over all the misdeeds of
>>countries throughout history. The point is that your fixation on
>>nationality sounds a lot like the racist point of view.
>
>
> What rot. Nationality and race are totally different. In fact, given
> the percentage of Americans that are Germanic and Celtic by 'racial'
> origin, he's most assuredly one of you. :)
They are different, but from the point of view of applying
generalizations, they are the same. Harry seemed keen on identifying
bad traits to American posters. How is this different from what a
racist does?
> Culture has a huge effect on communication. Skin colour does not.
Umm, race and culture often go hand in hand. I can assure you that in
America that there are very distinct cultures among the different races.
> And dismissing any criticism of your culture as 'racist' or
> irrational, certainly without finding out the reasons behind, does no
> favours to a culture which is already seen by many as arrogant.
But I *did* try to find Harry's motivation. I asked one simple
question: "Are you prejudiced." His original response was very
enlightening.
-Jeff
Jouni Karvo
This discussion brings up a go-related problem...
Do you view komi as an embodiment of prejudice, or perhaps as an
implementation of a race policy action?
yours,
Jouni
Matti Siivola
There is no Lounella. He is Lounela. Why do you keep writing his name wrong?
Matti Siivola
Harry Sigerson
> I've always wanted to ask a Scotsman, "Is anything worn under the kilt?"
>
I'm not sure if anything is for the everyday sort of kilt wearer but I
believe that the prescribed garment is 'fresh' air.
Many years ago in this city, Glasgow, quite near its centre there was
an army barracks in an area of the City called the Wyndford. This barracks
was surrounded by a high stone wall with an entrance into it from Maryhill
Road. The wall (or a major part of it, the bit on the main road) is still
there but now it defines a housing estate.
That barracks was there long before I was born. It would have been the
sort of place where during the depression friends of my father who could
not get work would wind up having to volunteer, to get fed in what was
supposed to have been made into a Land Fit for Heros (that old old
refrain). It would also have been the place where they collected some of
the cannon fodder for that 'Great' War. I'm not absolutely sure of this
next but I believe that it was the home of the HLI (Highland Light
Infantry) though as for the 'Highland' bit, its ranks were probably filled
with the unemployed lowlanders who had thus far managed to escape
Tuberculosis.
But for me in my late pre-teen and early-teens, off on the tram with
my pals and 'boattla ginger' (the local 'patois' for aerated flavoured
water of the sort called Pop by some and Soda(?) by others) and a packet
of sandwiches, to Milngavie (pronounced 'mul-guy') to do a bit of
adventuring in what was then to all intents and purposes for us, the
countryside, right there at the terminus of the Glasgow Corporation's
tramlines.
From the top deck of the tram as it passed by you could look down into
the main gate of the barracks. With the 'kilty kilty cauld bums' as we
called them on guard there.
The story was that when the soldiers got a pass before leaving the
barracks the Sargeant Major would fit a small mirror-device to one of his
boots and bang this booted device on the ground between men-at-eased legs
and check for that compulsory 'fresh' air apparel. They were also as the
story goes not suppose to climb up the steep spiral stairs to the upper
deck of trams. The place where the 'clippies' (conductresses) usually
stood, between making their ticket-selling rounds was right under those
stairs. Such sensibilities in the LFFH.
Even then, sceptic that I am I doubted that story about the bulled-up
shiny black SM's boot with the mirror on its toe cap was true.
Then in a UK film, I think it was 'Tunes of Glory' the 'mirror
ceremony' tale was given some credence by being shown on screen.
So there you are, it looks like it's, fresh air and plenty of it, is
the order of the day for the cauld bums' kilts. Though having worn an
ex-army Black Watch kilt that my taller younger brother bought in Paddy's
Market, though quite coarse and quite heavy, it was anything but cold. I'm
sure it would make a lot more sense for folk living in the hills and
mountains of Scotland in the days before trousers were made in the
man-made materials that fit those outdoor conditions so well now.
Harry.
P.S. As an indicator of how given enough time and propaganda you can make
a nation, while it's continually dying and 'boning' people, come to
believe it; even if the instigators meant it initially as a means of
demeaning and controlling a people. After the English /slaughtered/ the
Scots at Culloden and on many little Mai Lais across the Highlands, the
wearing of the kilt or tartans was forbidden. In time, a very long time,
the enforcement of this ordinance lapsed. It would not surprise me if the
ridicule that we, that is me and my fellow Lowlanders directed at anyone
wearing a kilt stemmed from that enforcement. As Rabbie Burns said about
the arse-kissers who advocated the Union with England, "Such a Parcel of
Rogues in a Nation"...
http://www.robertburns.org/works/344.shtml
...of course the money men will point out correctly that there was a
lot more of it to be made by joining up with the English as it went on to
take from the world all that it wanted - tell me that old old story. Of
course they, the Scots were shown and had to learn their place, what they
could find of it among all the introduced live-mutton. The outcome today
is that the Westminster Parliament of the United Kingdom is stuffed with
Scots MPs from the PM (though that one may be a cuckoo) on down through
the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr Broon, for whom I have high hopes).
The biter bit so to speak. Now Diese Verdammtes Engländer are complaining
about this surfeit of Scots having a say in 'their' affairs. Perhaps now
that they don't have an Empire to milk - well at least overtly, covertly
the money made from investment abroad can now be so easily channelled to
safe havens and never even be keeked at (looked at) by the Inland Revenue
and will remain 'valuable' as long as there isn't a World War III. Perhaps
even though Bretton Woods was knobbled in '71 'money' that's stable world
wide will preserve the peace better than treaties?
When I come back in my next incarnation I'm coming as a tory complete
with the proper type of lop-sided thinking, biased education and religious
stamp, the necessary pre-requisites.
No, hang on, I take that bit back about the 'biased education';
'education' is too important a word to be 'right' allied. It's the nearest
thing for me to 'a religion' that there is; and it's what an individual
does with it or at least gets from it, that matters. The snag is that so
many different factions want control of its administration - get them till
they're seven and mostly you've got them for life or have them spend
enough of their lives clearing out the keech (crap) that it doesn't
matter.
On that propaganda, mentioned earlier. The followers of Islam are
taught not to eat pork. This may or may not be written in the Qran, I
don't know but it is a tenet of that religion. Considering that we all
know that pig meat, not refrigerated, will 'turn' as my mother put it,
quicker than say beef, this is an important consideration.
Could it be that the sensible teaching of Mohammed that one should
avoid pork was almost like a WWII, Ministry of Food, health instruction?
Back then more than fourteen hundred years ago how would you disseminate
such good advice to folk who live in a hot country? One quick way would be
part of religious teaching. This warning would spread quickly and be acted
upon. Then that is only my conjecture a matter that seemed to me a non
sequitur.
Frank de Groot
> Could it be that the sensible teaching of Mohammed that one should
> avoid pork was almost like a WWII, Ministry of Food, health instruction?
Interesting to note how the pig is the link between avian influenza and
human pandemics of high-mortality flu.
Tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dead could have been
avaioded if pigs were taboo.
> Back then more than fourteen hundred years ago how would you disseminate
> such good advice to folk who live in a hot country?
Religion is a genetical trait, used to enforce cultural rules rigidly over
centuries.
Those cultural rules are needed to ensure best survival of the group over
longer time, based on infrequent experiences or the experiences of a few
more "enlightened" individials.
Example: Mohammed said that men should pee sitting, just like women. He has
been ridiculed for that.
Last year, a Norwegian doctor said that due to the shape of some men's
bladders, they risk getting bladder cancer due to stagnant urine if they pee
standing. New research, found by dissecting bladders of deceased bladder
cancer patients. A lot had an indentation in the bottom.
Strict religious customs often have a basis in catastrophes in the distant
past of a poeple, region or culture. It is a clever way to survive or avoid
the next catastophe, even though it has been such a long time ago that
nobody remembers or understands what the real reason is.
Harry Sigerson
> There is no Lounella. He is Lounela. Why do you keep writing his name wrong?
>
I do apologise. It's not intentional I assure you. I think I must have a
'stutter' in the ring-finger of my right-hand<s>. That and hypermetropic
astigmatism which I blame for my poor sub-editing.
I touch type and I'm not sure what triggers the keystrokes, sound or
memory of the correct spelling. For example as the words appear on the screen,
before my very eyes, as often as not the word 'won' will appear whereas 'one'
was intended.
Perhaps in English, words with an 'l' near their ends mostly have a
double 'll' in them, e.g., 'bella' and that's the trigger. What ever is the
cause I'll try and ride shotgun on my spelling of Olli's surname.
I already have such Finnish first names with their double consonants,
Antti, Anssi, off correctly. Yours too has a double 'tt' but the English name
Matthew keeps the reflex right on that. Your surname starts 'Si' as does mine
but yours has a double 'ii', now that's more likely to 'Cry havoc and let
loose the Gods of Spelling'; I'd have to watch that too and I shall.
I've got it. I'll use the AutoCorrect in this OLR's ('Virtual Access')
spell checker; on my finger stuttering it will be corrected. I dislike using
this feature but 'Lounela' is not an every day sort of word; such as the
won/one combination.
Harry.
Peter Clinch
> Orne,
>
>> I've always wanted to ask a Scotsman, "Is anything worn under the kilt?"
As the old joke goes, "nothing's worn at all, it's all in perfect
working order". B'boom tssss!
<snip>
> Then in a UK film, I think it was 'Tunes of Glory' the 'mirror
> ceremony' tale was given some credence by being shown on screen.
I think the film "Carry on up the Khyber" has far, far, far more to do
with the public's assumption of nothing under a kilt than anything else!
FWIW I'm actually English, but very much an ex-pat that prefers his
adopted Scottish home. I have a kilt for formal wear as I despise suits
and kilts are smarter, but I don't go out of my way to advertise what I
wear (or don't) underneath. The answer can provide for some amusing
situations... ;-)
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Harry Sigerson
> Well, I agree, there are cultural norms. However, Harry seemed to have
> a chip on his shoulder regarding Americans, and his original follow-up
> to my question "Are you prejudiced" confirmed this.
>
No it didn't. Not only that but it was specifically written to
repudiate such assumptions. I don't know you from a bar of soap. You could
be a serial killer or worse peanut jelly and butter junkie. The idea for
anyone including me, is to read the words as written and though this next
is for all of us the difficult part take those words as the starting
points particularly if the black marks that comprise the words are
understood by one. Which last is already making the assumption the read,
recognised and 'understood' words mean the same to both the reader and the
writer. And that simple last phrase is the lumpy bit since it is not
always the case.
If one reads some thing always from the position of his pre-trained
or entrenched position then anyone who deals with him in the sense of
communicating with him is already up against it. Why? Firstly because the
person he is writing to is a *complete* stranger and all they have in
common are the black marks on the screen. If one then detects that no
matter what you write it will be interpreted from an agenda that is
established then one has to, if one continues the conversation,
accommodate/censor what you write to fit what you think will cause the
reader least trouble and who needs that.
For example, from my little bit of schoolboy French lessons I can
read a bit of the language, I cannot write it coherently and I most
certainly could not conduct a conversation with a Frenchman and I am
ashamed of myself that this is the case. Now if I even look at text in
Russian I cannot even read the words. I can read a character, find out how
it is pronounced and move onto the next one, the only complete Russian
word that 'reads' instantly like any of the words on this screen is
'pravda' and this OLR cannot write the Cyrillic script for it, I get a '?'
for each letter (which is strange since it can pull up all of the word's
characters in its character set - I'll have to ask the team at VAOS about
this)
As I said somewhere I only get the privilege of thinking with my
machinery, I don't get to buy a transplant; a re-tread or a reconditioned
set of cogs. The propensity for folk to go to war in this medium (this
/medium/ not newsgroup) is startling and such a waste.
This next is not to you, per se, this is a newsgroup. I ask myself
can I think of anything in this wide world that would persuade me to strap
on a Semtex waistcoat and go out among a lot people and explode the
Semtex. No, there isn't, at least not from my position of privilege. But
there are folk who will do; perhaps they don't feel privilege?
I am inclined to agree with Planar; this thread should be allowed to
fade out.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> Do you view komi as an embodiment of prejudice, or perhaps as an
> implementation of a race policy action?
>
(I do like Finnish dry humour)
Komi is the very essence of enlightenment.
The quintessential model of futility would be for me to set out
to beat Chen Yaoye (a paltry teenager for goodness sake) with a km
less than say 180 to 215 and even then I'd be disinclined to put
money on the outcome.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> Interesting to note how the pig is the link between avian influenza and
> human pandemics of high-mortality flu.
> Tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dead could have been
> avaioded if pigs were taboo.
If by taboo you meant that we should none of go anywhere near them, I
suppose that would help towards the avoidance such deaths. I feel sure that you
don't mean to get rid of all pigs <s>.
Another thought; I've read that a pig's digestive system is very like
ours; also when surgeons talk about using an animal's heart as a transplant
into a human it's the pig's that is first contender.
We know that the baddies that cause the killing on those scales you
describe are viruses. And it seems that when they have found a way to
accommodate the jump from human to human it's all up for us <s>. Now what I'd
like to know is where does that virus do its accommodating procedures? You'd
think that if is did it in a pig then it would be all up for the porkers. To do
the same service for us, does a human have to provide the place of work for the
change in the virus and from then on it's all downhill?
We are told that we won't catch anything from birds unless we are in close
contact with the diseased critturs and it has to be quite close.
Is it likely that the 'compatibilities' that there are between pigs and
humans mean that the pig-acccommodated viruses will more readily the next step
up?
> Example: Mohammed said that men should pee sitting, just like women. He has
> been ridiculed for that.
I didn't know that. As you do when you are anywhere different for an
enforced but limited time you take an interest in things about the place. Of
course that is the source of many stories, apocryphal on occasion I'm sure. One
that was told to me when I worked in Saudi was that Mohammed had struck the
ground with his foot and intimated that from the ground would come future good
of his countrymen; the oil. It's a nice story and by that, I mean, the Occam's
Razor meaning of 'story'.
> ...It is a clever way to survive or avoid
> the next catastophe, even though it has been such a long time ago that
> nobody remembers or understands what the real reason is.
Exactly. The part that troubles me is that in time the passing down of the
'knowledge' from the parents to the children there comes a time when its done
in complete 'ignorance' of the reason. Hit that stage and the same overall
source could sell almost anything.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
I noticed that Ninewells connection straight off. Unless the memory is
fading worse than I thought that hospital's structural design was done by Ove
Arup and Ptnrs. I'm sure my retired Engineer brother, an ex OA man did some
work on that project. How is the building bearing up to use.
> I think the film "Carry on up the Khyber" has far, far, far more to do
> with the public's assumption of nothing under a kilt than anything else!
Of course I'd forgotten about that one of the carry-ons. The title is
quite layered and they say Cockney rhyming slang adds nothing to the
language.
> FWIW I'm actually English, but very much an ex-pat that prefers his
> adopted Scottish home. I have a kilt for formal wear as I despise suits
> and kilts are smarter, ...
Clearly a man of good taste.
For me it's ties, except for funerals and weddings they got abandoned
long ago.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> ...with a km less than say 180 to 215...
>
Or even a 'komi'.
Sneaky thing spell checkers.
Harry.
Peter Clinch
> I noticed that Ninewells connection straight off. Unless the memory is
> fading worse than I thought that hospital's structural design was done by Ove
> Arup and Ptnrs. I'm sure my retired Engineer brother, an ex OA man did some
> work on that project. How is the building bearing up to use.
They keep adding extra bits to it (what was at DRI is in the new(ish)
South Block and what was at King's Cross is in the new(er) East Block.
And still new projects are being added, so the original can't have been
/too/ ropey (though I should disassociate that comment from the heating
system! ;-)).
> For me it's ties, except for funerals and weddings they got abandoned
> long ago.
Sounds familiar. I had to argue a bit not to wear one to work, but with
no patient/public direct contact I won without too much struggle...
Swinging back onto topic, are you coming over to the Scottish Open at
the end of May (http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/gochamp06.htm)?
carn...@gmail.com
hi,
...
> further reading there came up
> with the name Ubuntu - sounded
> like an African tribe. I formed the
> idea that it is a version of Linux - I
...
> It is a Linux - after all that. So that
> being the case, do you use
> Ubuntu?
ubuntu is said to be the most
used linux distribution these days
on its web site, you can read
what ubuntu means.
ubuntu is sponsored by Mark
Shuttelworth, a young South
African millionaire (he patented
verisign, i think). he is one
of the few people who have
done a touristic trip to space
Frank de Groot
news:VA.00001f1...@ntlworld.com...
> suppose that would help towards the avoidance such deaths. I feel sure
> that you
> don't mean to get rid of all pigs <s>.
I assume that humans started to breed the current western domesticated pig
before the invention of agriculture, which, incidentally, predates Islam by
millennia. So, western domesticated pigs are a relatively modern (10,000
years perhaps) invention and when pig meat would be taboo, so would all pigs
disappear naturally, except wild swine of various sorts.
> describe are viruses. And it seems that when they have found a way to
> accommodate the jump from human to human it's all up for us <s>.
H5N1 only needs one single recombination (laypeople call it "mutations but
that is incorrect, with influenza viruses) to become efficiently H2H.
> like to know is where does that virus do its accommodating procedures?
It recombines genes with other, similar viruses.
Read details on www.recombinomics.com
> think that if is did it in a pig then it would be all up for the porkers.
> To do
> the same service for us, does a human have to provide the place of work
> for the
> change in the virus and from then on it's all downhill?
It depends on the H binding molecules (to get into the different cells) and
the N molecules (to get out of the cell again).
That is species-specific.
> We are told that we won't catch anything from birds unless we are in
> close
> contact with the diseased critturs and it has to be quite close.
H5N1 is the biggest threat to humanity ever.
It looks more like a bioweapon than a common influenza virus because it has
the max. of six binder molecules and they are all different. It is the only
influenza that can infect the brain and do so immediately after infection,
and kill you with a great probability as a result.
> Is it likely that the 'compatibilities' that there are between pigs
> and
> humans mean that the pig-acccommodated viruses will more readily the next
> step
> up?
Yes.
BTW H5N1 already went mammal-to-mammal.
> Exactly. The part that troubles me is that in time the passing down of
> the
> 'knowledge' from the parents to the children there comes a time when its
> done
> in complete 'ignorance' of the reason. Hit that stage and the same overall
> source could sell almost anything.
Yes, and when society change or circumstances change, a culture impervious
to logic or science will perhaps have a bad time (as in getting nuked by the
Yanks).
Aidan Karley
> I've always wanted to ask a Scotsman, "Is anything worn under the kilt?"
>
re-grows.
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57d10' , -02d09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Batmagoo
Peter Clinch wrote:
> >> I've always wanted to ask a Scotsman, "Is anything worn under the kilt?"
>
> As the old joke goes, "nothing's worn at all, it's all in perfect
> working order". B'boom tssss!
Blue ribbon to Peter for supplying the correct answer.
--
"I dinnae know where ye've been, Laddy, but I'm glad ta see ye've won
first prize."
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
> Interesting to note how the pig is the link between avian influenza and
> human pandemics of high-mortality flu.
> Tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dead could have been
> avaioded if pigs were taboo.
Why not just stop the use of the chickens in the first place?
Frank de Groot
Because avian influenza is "avian", not neccessarily "chicken".
Harry Sigerson
> Swinging back onto topic, are you coming over to the Scottish Open at
> the end of May (http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/gochamp06.htm)?
>
That is a nice clean web page you run.
At first glance I thought you were making an early reference to one of
the tournaments run down at Edinburgh but no you look to have a keen bunch
in Dundee.
The end of May you say. I'm a bit of a numpty at the game; following
the action on the live games on KGS and replaying .sgf files does rather
confirm this.
It's good to know about and your site is bookmarked.
Do you know if Donald MacLeod of the Edinburgh club will be there?
Then there's the Karley Kid from Aberdeen he's on the right side of the
country for it.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> ubuntu is said to be the most
> used linux distribution these days
I didn't know that.
I am not a Linux user, I just don't ever get round to it, since
losing the W98SE and going to XP Pro.
I had come to the conclusion, knowing nothing about Linux, that
it would be a good thing to get the German distribution, SuSE. Their
v10.1 is due out now.
> on its web site, you can read
> what ubuntu means.
I'll dig up the site...
In passing the Wikipedia page on it...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28Linux_distribution%29
...is informative.
...and then I found...
http://distrowatch.com/
...you'll know about this site of course but it was a find for
me. As you said Ubuntu it way up there in the popularity poll.
As for SuSE Linux, v10.0 that gets a big build up in...
http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/2945
...at this stage for someone who has never used Linux there is
/too/ much information; the reading through that Tuxmachines report
on SuSE v10 it gets a good build up.
> ubuntu is sponsored by Mark
> Shuttelworth, a young South
> African millionaire (he patented
> verisign, i think). he is one
> of the few people who have
> done a touristic trip to space
As Mel Brooks would put it, "It's good to be the King"
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> H5N1 is the biggest threat to humanity ever.
> It looks more like a bioweapon than a common influenza virus because it has
> the max. of six binder molecules and they are all different. It is the only
> influenza that can infect the brain and do so immediately after infection,
> and kill you with a great probability as a result.
>
Now, it's 2am and the bit really put the frighteners on me, a nice warm
bed calls.
"...more like a bioweapon..." and sweet dreams to you too <s>.
Harry.
Aidan Karley
> Swinging back onto topic, are you coming over to the Scottish Open at
> the end of May (http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/gochamp06.htm)?
>
(Before you ask - I can't predict if I'll be available in May.)
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57d10' , -02d09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Peter Clinch
> The end of May you say. I'm a bit of a numpty at the game; following
> the action on the live games on KGS and replaying .sgf files does rather
> confirm this.
If it was about the winning rather than taking part then I wouldn't be
showing up! (I'm 20k on KGS). There should be prizes for different
levels and everyone will be welcome. You can always just come along to
watch.
> It's good to know about and your site is bookmarked.
> Do you know if Donald MacLeod of the Edinburgh club will be there?
Since Donald asked us if we'd do it in the first place so it didn't
become too Embra-centric I imagine so. It was up in Aberdeen last year.
> Then there's the Karley Kid from Aberdeen he's on the right side of the
> country for it.
Train ride to Aberdeen lasts similar time from Glasgow and Embra, less
than 90 minutes for all of them.
Hans Kloss
but why - it is fun to read and this even if we moved on from chicken
stuff (I am sure texan law forbidding sex with them should help us
against this pandemic panic but that is my view).
And mentioning of the explosives and what you may or may not be willing
to do with it surelly got us attention (even if short lived) of
authorities - rgg got important this way :)
//
>
> Harry.
>
Harry Sigerson
> but why - it is fun to read...
Now that is the very point of all this. [Mr bar tender, please pass
young Hans here one of your excellent steins of Augsburgian beer (the very
thought brings on a Homer Simpsonian 'hmmmmm')].
Harry.
Harry Sigerson
> If it was about the winning rather than taking part then I wouldn't be
> showing up! (I'm 20k on KGS).
Your enthusiasm is evident, both here and in your club webpage.
> Since Donald asked us if we'd do it in the first place so it didn't
> become too Embra-centric I imagine so. It was up in Aberdeen last year.
Sounds to me like it's on the east coast where all the keen GO players live.
You may not be a Scot but what with the wearing the kilt and using 'Embra',
you'll soon get your citizenship papers<s>.
I've never met Donald; he was helpful when I was trying to make contact the
chap who /used to/ turn GO bowls from Scotch Elm.
I can see that you are on a roll organising this open. I'll look forward to
meeting you; if I get through there.
Harry.
Peter Clinch
> I can see that you are on a roll organising this open.
Rich Philp has done all the Real Work, not just for the Scottish Open
this year, but in getting the Dundee Club off the ground. I've just put
the results on a web page and turn up to play...
> I'll look forward to meeting you; if I get through there.
Good, hopefully see you at the end of May...
Hans Kloss
in Neurnberg - every time I visit my friends there I have a problem -
which one to chose as so many are so good: pils, white beer, red beer,
black beer gosh they even destil the stuff and serve the produce as
well. As a bonus you get malz instead of chips. Ehhh I am not sure it is
all that bad that I live hundreds clicks away (even if my precious
insist on me going to my local pub every now and then) - after all I
have family and hobbies and last but not least work to attend to :)
//
Harry Sigerson
> ...after all I
> have family and hobbies and last but not least work to attend to :)
>
I keep telling folk; work will be the ruination of everything.
Here in this city the Guinness and how it should be treated is
getting to be a lost art, so much so, I've reverted to the range of
goodish to good English Bitters served here, that are so much better
liked by publicans 'cause they can pull the pints so quickly.
The Augsburg connection is fond memory; me, my brother and a
Kiwi pal bumming around Western Europe for months circa '61 in a wee
Morris Mini-minor and 'basic' camping gear. Arrived in Augsburg on ah
very hot summers day and stopped at a very small 'pub' though it
looked more like a café. Two or three of the customers were in
lederhosen. Mein host served us these big steins of a pale beer that
would have been a pils. As Rabbie Burns' 'Tam O'Shanter' put it so
well, he served us...
Wi reaming swats, that drank divinely;
...those steins are pretty big swats.
Harry.
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
>> Why not just stop the use of the chickens in the first place?
>
> Because avian influenza is "avian", not neccessarily "chicken".
The primary vector of avian influenza to people is chickens. Getting
rid of the pigs gets rid of some percentage of the cases; getting rid
of the chickens gets ride of essentially all of them. Without that
resevoir of human-managed and highly-contacted chickens, it wouldn't
matter what we did with pigs.
Frank de Groot
> The primary vector of avian influenza to people is chickens. Getting
> rid of the pigs gets rid of some percentage of the cases; getting rid
> of the chickens gets ride of essentially all of them. Without that
> resevoir of human-managed and highly-contacted chickens, it wouldn't
> matter what we did with pigs.
Sure, you are right perhaps.
It's just that you'll might have a harder time persuading Asia to give up
poultry than pork :)
Hans Kloss
it does not make too much sense? WOuld it not be better to spend time
and effort on actions that can bring something instead of (inevitable in
such case) mass slaughter of one or other type of animal?
What is the point of easy corner invasion (to use the analogy) if the
profits are too small to tip the balance into our favour?
//
Frank de Groot
> effort on actions that can bring something instead of (inevitable in such
> case) mass slaughter of one or other type of animal?
Humankind has no bright future unless we understand that animals and humans
are equal in most of their ability to suffer.
Hans Kloss
the animals badly - it is because animals and people are treated badly
in china poor farmers tend to and often live together with animals.
Poverty supports sickness and thus a perfect mixer is created.
//
Frank de Groot
> in china poor farmers tend to and often live together with animals.
> Poverty supports sickness and thus a perfect mixer is created.
Yes but look at insidious, slow-progressing diseases like CJD.
That's caused by feeding cows to cows..
If we don't respect the basic functioning of nature we will harm ourselves
in the end..