A true story about Frank and MoyoGo
BramGo
Frank is the "well known" author of the go program Moyogo. About a year
ago Frank contacted me to write the framework for the helpfile of
moyogo. In return he would give me a free copy of his so called
revolutionary go tool.
At that time moyogo was allready advertised for a long time, so I had
high expectations. The pictures on Frank his website showed a nice 3D
interface and a very advanced search tools. I was very dissapointed
when I saw the result. The program was not like the website predicted
it to be. Nevertheless I wrote a framework for the helpfiles according
to our agreement and send it to Frank.
Not only did I send Frank the help-framework. I also send him a big
email about my dissapointment, I showed him various errors and flaws in
his system. Frank isn't really a go player himself, so I thought I
would do him a favour with this. (I am 1d on IGS, 4k KGS, 2k Orobaduk,
... so I am more experienced than Frank).
On top I started my own webbased patternsearch tool. It looks a lot
like http://www.fuseki.info It's a joseki dictionary with a php forum
build around it. The idea is to discuss joseki and explore undocumented
variants together. It also allready contained more than a million
cornervariations taken from games and carefully filtered (to remove
strange variations like moves starting in the center of the board). But
I went a step further and included a Neural Network that was able to
give each situation a value based on influence, territory and distance
of extention stones. This would make my tool revolutionary. I
programmed the whole thing and proudly send some screenshots to Frank.
His reply was unseen. First he blocked my copy of moyogo. And later he
told me he would sue me for steeling his ideas. I have no idea why
Frank thought I was steeling his ideas on top of that my project is not
a commercial project. I'm doing nobody no harm. Half a day later he
send me an email appologizing and he asking me not to publish any
remarks about moyogo in public. He wanted to keep me silent.
At first I wanted to quit this long discussion. But after being
insulted several times by Frank it might be better to make our
email-conversation public. Can I have you permission for that Frank?
(He told me he was going to sue me if I made it public, but recently he
was quoting my emails too. So I guess he wants to make everything
public after all.)
The latest things I heard from Frank are the following: First of all he
is spreading lies about me begging him to implement some "automated"
function. To be honest I hardly know what he is talking about, my best
guess it is an auto-update tool.
On top of that he is telling romours that I love and use moyogo all the
time. Lol, dear people moyogo is too slow to run on a 512 MB RAM
system. A 1024 MB system might do better. I never use it because it's
too slow. On top of that it has too many little bugs that I don't have
with kombilo and with my own tool. Give me one reason why I would use
moyogo? I never do.
Then lately I wondered if that slow program of his might run faster on
a 64bit system. So I give it a try. Guess what: "This program can't be
installed on a 64bit windows version". Lol, so Frank his program
doesn't even run on a 64bit windows system. I asked him about this in
his forum. First he removed my message, the 2nd time I posted it he
told me I had an old version of the program. So, what's with the
lifelong updates Frank is promosing? In fact has anybody been able to
run it on a 64bit system? Frank can tell all fancy stories he wants
about multiprocessor systems and 64bit support explaining that's why
his program is so slow. But lol, can we believe all this trash from
somebody like him?
Last but not least he is starting to pick on my age. Now I might be
only 21 years old, but if there are 5 things where age isn't important
it's baduk, weiqi, igo, goe and go. Oh and computer science. Oh Frank,
and please no more childish posting about me in your blog. Get grown up
and talk public if you want to say something about me.
Frank de Groot
> programmed the whole thing and proudly send some screenshots to Frank.
Not true. This is the first time I hear of this.
> His reply was unseen. First he blocked my copy of moyogo.
Not true. Your copy has never been blocked. I have ever only blocked a
single copy of a guy who got it for free (like yourself), and he was giving
it away to people so I had no other choice to limit the damage.
> told me he would sue me for steeling his ideas.
Not true (and I challenge you to publish the email here so I can INDEED sue
you for slander because email correspondence is saved by both our ISP's by
EU law).
I said if you don't give me back the DVD I consider it theft, since you
never gave me the Help file you promised.
> (He told me he was going to sue me if I made it public, but recently he
> was quoting my emails too.
Not true. Where?
> The latest things I heard from Frank are the following: First of all he
> is spreading lies about me begging him to implement some "automated"
> function. To be honest I hardly know what he is talking about, my best
> guess it is an auto-update tool.
No, you wanted a command line interface to the pattern system so you could
automate MoyoGo into your own server-based system, so you could make money
off Moyo Go's mattern system as a paid service.
You have been nagging about that half a dozen times for the past year.
> On top of that he is telling romours that I love and use moyogo all the
> time. Lol, dear people moyogo is too slow to run on a 512 MB RAM
> system.
It is unusably slow if you don't have 360 MB free.
Otherwise it's instantaneously fast.
> with kombilo and with my own tool. Give me one reason why I would use
> moyogo? I never do.
Your nose is growing.
> Then lately I wondered if that slow program of his might run faster on
> a 64bit system.
What a stupid thought..
> So I give it a try. Guess what: "This program can't be
> installed on a 64bit windows version". Lol, so Frank his program
> doesn't even run on a 64bit windows system. I asked him about this in
> his forum.
> First he removed my message,
Sure. You posted it under "bugs" and you never replied my request for info,
so after a week I removed it, since Moyo Go works just fine on x64 )I
develop on x64). Especially since you are not allowed to use the softwar
eany more, I have sent you an email asking you to send me the DVD and books
back because you failed to send me the work we agreed upon.
> the 2nd time I posted it he
> told me I had an old version of the program.
I told you that it is trivial to circumvent this problem: Run under
alternate OS, like Win2000. I pointed you to the article on my forum that
explains how-to. But I am amazed that you have the guts to submit a support
question for illegal software.
> So, what's with the
> lifelong updates Frank is promosing?
They are auto-updated, smart guy.
> In fact has anybody been able to
> run it on a 64bit system?
I /develop/ it on a 64-bit system. I haven't seen it run on anything /else/
than a 64-bit system.
My 32-bit systems are in a dusty pile in a corner.
> Frank can tell all fancy stories he wants
> about multiprocessor systems and 64bit support explaining that's why
> his program is so slow.
You are making up stories.
The strong point of MoyoGo is that it is the fastest (because NO DELAY) Go
pattern expert system.
If it's slow on your machine, then that's because you have not given the
software at least 360 MB RAM.
> Last but not least he is starting to pick on my age. Now I might be
> only 21 years old,
You must be an idiot savant.
> it's baduk, weiqi, igo, goe and go. Oh and computer science. Oh Frank,
> and please no more childish posting about me in your blog.
I have never, ever mentioned you in my blog.
But things can change :)
Robert Jasiek
>[something]
If you want greater credibility, then sign with your real name.
--
robert jasiek
BramGo
there's plenty of evidence:
On 25/01/2006 I send you the following at 21:18
"How about we play a game some time. I'll show you what would be nice
to see next in your program that would be easy to program and very
revolutionary and helpful though. I have read you were thinking about
Neural networks. I did some projects last year about face-recognition
with SOM and perceptron networks. At the moment I still have exams till
February and after that I will continue my own go-software projects. It
is a database that includes influence and territory values for
positions. These values are given by a neural network. The nice thing
about it is that the database can show you a move based on the ENTIRE
board even if the position has never occured before. You see, it goes
farther than moyogo or kombilo and can fill all gaps in the database.
Now, that is revolutionary, but yet not a study tool. Besides that I am
building a website and forum around it where people can leave questions
and comments. It's a dictionary. I have currently only an alpha version
of it and the neural network components are Matlab classes. So not
something I can publish in the next couple of months. Screenshot
attached. "
That Same evening at 21:31 you send me the following
"You are a thief.
You wanted to make your own Go software and you stole a copy of Moyo Go
(and three very expensive books) by promising you would make a Help
file for me. You sabotaged my business and myu customers because now I
have no Help file. And in the time I trusted you to make a Help file,
you worked on your own Go software. You are nothing but a thief, a
disgusting thief. And you have no shame, because instead of trying to
repair some of the damage you did, you started to spread lies and
nonsense about Moyo Go."
You told me you never heard of it? Now tell me who's lying?
BramGo
"Not true. Your copy has never been blocked. I have ever only blocked a
single copy of a guy who got it for free (like yourself), and he was
giving
it away to people so I had no other choice to limit the damage. "
But on 15/01/2006 you wrote me the following:
"Since you have not delivered the Help file we agreed upon, I have
disabled automatic updates for your serial number. "
Is it so hard to be honest, Frank?
Frank de Groot
> "Since you have not delivered the Help file we agreed upon, I have
> disabled automatic updates for your serial number. "
Yes, but I almost immediately re-enabled it and I told you so.
From my records I can see that you are updating regularly, so the system
works fine (and I wonder why you keep using it when it's so unusable).
Frank de Groot
> If you want greater credibility, then sign with your real name.
Bram van den Bon, ripoff artist.
Frank de Groot
> positions. These values are given by a neural network. The nice thing
> about it is that the database can show you a move based on the ENTIRE
> board even if the position has never occured before. You see, it goes
> farther than moyogo
.. and I told you that MoyoGo /DOES/ suggest moves based on whole-board
analysis..
BramGo
to prove them. SO, I DID prove them. And all you can do is calling
names.
You're lowlife scum, a loser and a thief.
AND I DON' USE YOUR PROGRAM. I have only used your program once in the
last 3 months to install it on a 64bit system. And like I told you it
can not be installed. You're just dishonest. And your program SUCKS. I
wouldn't spend 0,01 EUR on it. It's not worth it.
By the way I just noticed I am not the only one talking about this
topic. There's another complaint in the AGA newsletter on this topic.
Don't waste money on this product people. Several people told this
before it's not worth spending your money on it.
It needs at least 1024 MB RAM whatever Frank is trying to tell you.
Don't believe him, he's trying to rob money from honest people like you
and me. Go check his attitude in his last posts and you will know
exactly what I am talking about.
About the blocking of my software, you will hear more from this !
Bram Vandenbon
Belgian Go Player
(and you can check that at www.gofed.be at the ranking page, I'm 5k)
ian
Robert Jasiek wrote:
> On 7 Apr 2006 14:29:09 -0700, "BramGo" <bvand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >[something]
>
> If you want greater credibility, then sign with your real name.
>
nice guy, I don't need his real name for credibility.
BramGo
wholeboard moves. In fact moyogo RARELY uses the whole board to find a
move. Certain moves that can even be found with Kombilo can not be
found by moyogo. The reason behind this is its buggy architecture.
For people who don't know yet, the reason behind this bug is the
following:
- kombilo searches for situations where a move has been played.
- kombilo does NOT search for moves that have been played in a certain
situation.
This is a big difference. This is not only the reason why kombilo finds
MORE results, but also the reason why kombilo finds its results FASTER.
Download kombilo free from: http://www.u-go.net/kombilo/ . You won't
regret it!
BramGo
CORRECTION:
For people who don't know yet, the reason behind this bug is the
following:
- moyogo searches for situations where a move has been played.
- moyogo does NOT search for moves that have been played in a certain
situation.
Frank de Groot
> move. Certain moves that can even be found with Kombilo can not be
> found by moyogo. The reason behind this is its buggy architecture.
Looks like you have an old version.
The current version has full "Kombilo" functionality.
If you have trouble upgrading, just say so, don't spout nonsense.
> This is a big difference. This is not only the reason why kombilo finds
> MORE results, but also the reason why kombilo finds its results FASTER.
Nonsense.
MoyoGo searches faster than Kombilo.
I have added full "Kombilo" functionality a month ago, are you keeping up?
;-)
Frank de Groot
> can not be installed. You're just dishonest. And your program SUCKS. I
> wouldn't spend 0,01 EUR on it. It's not worth it.
Give it back then, like I asked you a long time ago.
> By the way I just noticed I am not the only one talking about this
> topic. There's another complaint in the AGA newsletter on this topic.
Hehe.. Yes :)
> Don't waste money on this product people. Several people told this
> before it's not worth spending your money on it.
It's not going to work :) Critical mass, you know :)
> It needs at least 1024 MB RAM whatever Frank is trying to tell you.
No, it needs 512 MB but you should not use Office or other "big" stuff.
1024 MB is indeed a much better idea for people who use their machines
intensively.
> Don't believe him, he's trying to rob money from honest people like you
If I wanted to be a robber, I would not be programming on this project for
the past years :)
Look on my site, there is a no-questions-askes money-back guarantee :
www.moyogo.com
So far, zero people took advantage of that, not even folks in Russia, Poland
and other countries where the average wage is quite a bit lower as in Norway
or Belgium.
> and me. Go check his attitude in his last posts and you will know
> exactly what I am talking about.
>
> About the blocking of my software, you will hear more from this !
Your software isn't blocked, kiddo.
And it isn't your software, it was advance payment for something I never got
(Help file).
Funnily enough, the lack of a Help file (I made one a month ago) is exactly
AGA is attacking me on rigfht now, and YOU are pointing out to people how my
software is slaughtered by AGA.. Hypocricy at its finest :)
BramGo
that's what YOU made of it. You turn around words all the time. But
what AGA is doing hardly interests me. I know you are a crook, so AGA
probably has a point taking you down.
And I DID send you help files. I even send you 2 versions! And you
received them!, I allready proved that earlier.
You're really pushing it to the limit again aren't you. You think you
can get away with anything don't you? Let's play the game even then:
It's my right to receive a new version of moyogo, since it doesn't run
on 64bit version of windows. But in fact I don't want it any more. Just
PAY me for the helpfiles I made: 69 EUR, the price of a moyogo CD.
Believe me, I want the money, not the crappy software! Cause this
crappy software isn't worth a cent.
I will give you 5 days! Not an hour more. If I don't receive it, I will
make a list of all bugs in your software and post them on all
go-related forums, newsgroups, and servers I can think of with the
following title:
"MoyoGo: Terrible Service, Useless Software".
It's time we get even Frank.
Greetings
Bram Vandenbon
Frank de Groot
> Never heard of it???? I never lie!
Even though you are just 21 years old and therefore your cardiovascular
system should be in pristine condition, I would still take care with my
blood pressure if I were you because you never know :)
dm...@hotmail.com
"Moyo GO Studio" works just fine on 512 MB! And I don't think
I've got a special version ;-)
I've done a tiny review on my site, long time ago, when Moyo Go
Studio was "proof of concept" ;-) and from beginning I was very
impressed by his power. BTW, lifelong updates are working great! So
far, almost weekly, NEW features are added! What other application on
the market does that?!
Before buying MGS, I've used Kombilo a lot, and indeed it is a good
application, but it is not complete. ("Master GO" is far behind, no
thanks!)
Please solve your other problems with Frank in private, but please stop
saying lies about this program.
Usually I restrain myself to participate in a "flameware" and so
far so good ... but this is too much.
Leonard Dragomir
www.WarriorsGoAcademy.com
Frank de Groot
> Yes, but I almost immediately re-enabled it and I told you so.
In fact, I never actually did block your updates. I find it hard to do such
a thing for sentimental reasons*, even though you certainly deserve it.
*it's like loosing contact with your child
Frank de Groot
> About the blocking of my software, you will hear more from this !
For those who might believe his tirades, there is not such thing as
"blocking" in my software.
The only thing I can block is upgrades. The software itself needs no
activation, neither has it any form of copy protection, registration or even
a serial number.
Frank de Groot
>
> I have talked about this with Bram on KGS about 6 months ago, he's a
> nice guy, I don't need his real name for credibility.
So finally we find out who it was that said on KGS that his copy was too
slow, he wanted his money back and I said I would sue him..
Mr. Bram vandenbon, the guy who got a free copy of Moyo Go Studio plus three
new books on Game theory in return for a Help file, but the Help file never
came.
When I told him I was very disappointed, he started to freak out and warned
me to keep it quiet or it would be "bad for your reputation" and that "Moyo
Go sucks and I didn't tell anyone yet but I might" (or something like that).
I had no clue what he was talking about (I never visit Go servers either),
but I now understand who was making all that noise on KGS.
The saddest part is that I was warned by a customer not to let a third party
make the Help file and I vigorously defended Bram to that person, so much
that that person became angry with me. Perhaps he knew more about Bram than
he wanted to tell me upfront.
Frank de Groot
> I will give you 5 days! Not an hour more. If I don't receive it, I will
> make a list of all bugs in your software and post them on all
> go-related forums, newsgroups, and servers I can think of with the
> following title:
> "MoyoGo: Terrible Service, Useless Software".
This is OK, please do this sooner than that.
I am always interested in free publicity and bugs.
The first time AGA publised a crushing critique on Moyo Go I sold 24 copies
in 3 days.
If you want I can help you finding specialized tools to SPAM your message
over the entire Internet, I would be much obliged.
If I do it myself, I'll get into trouble.
BramGo
so far. If you have indeed been using the software from the start it's
impossible that you have not encountered a single bug. See the
moyogo-forum for detailed information about the updatebug.
And I am not lying about the speed! In fact I tried moyogo on 2 pc's so
far. On one of them it took me 20 minutes to start the damned program!
Please don't compare with the freeware version. The freeware version
runs fast enough. It's those pattern searches that are so slowing
everything down.
And it has bugs all over it. It's been buggy from the start. In the
first release you couldn't even review a complete sgf file without
getting errors.
I wonder why you are telling all these lies and good things while the
program is such a nightmare? Your comments does gives a good clue:
>"I've done a tiny review on my site, long time ago, when Moyo Go Studio was proof of concept"
Are you somebody that got a free copy in return for ... advertisement ?
Well, you can't accept me to treat you as a reliable source.
BramGo
Frank de Groot
> And I DID send you help files. I even send you 2 versions! And you
> received them!, I allready proved that earlier.
I got some MySQL based php-scripted stuff with some (minimalistic)
Helpish-fields filled in a database but I explained to you I wanted a plain,
simple Help framework, not an SQL solution that I had to run on a webserver.
For the rest, you still have your (fully functional) copy and your books and
you have slandered me on KGS, claiming I refused to give you your "money"
back, what a sleazy thing to do.
I decided not to block your copy for updates because you indeed have done
some effort. But spreading lies on KGS out of fear for your reputation as a
"pre-emptive attack" on my own reputation is a very low thing to do.
I knew in advance that I would encounter strong counter-forces from jelous
individuals like yourself and business competitors, but there is a line one
should not cross. I have no problem with strong opposition as long as it's
fair. That means legal and non-personal. When it becomes a campaign of
spreading vicious lies behind my back, it enters the realm of dirty
figthing.
This still is nothing compared to what I have seen happening to a successful
Chess database developer, the maker of Bookup (I modeled my site a bit after
his). Bookup's maker had a similar affair as I am having with you, the Mad
Dog from Zedelgem. Bookup's author got into an escalating "row over nothing"
with en envious person, and this person ended up doing exactly what you are
publicly threatening to do now, he accused Bookups's programmer to be a
child molester on other newsgroups.
I can tell you what happened with this person (the guy who spread this
crap). He is in prison now.
You are 21 years old. Please do not destroy your life at this early stage.
Frank de Groot
> Are you somebody that got a free copy in return for ... advertisement ?
> Well, you can't accept me to treat you as a reliable source.
Leonard Dragomir paid the full price and I can prove it, if you want.
Frank de Groot
> And I am not lying about the speed! In fact I tried moyogo on 2 pc's so
> far. On one of them it took me 20 minutes to start the damned program!
I would offer you your money back, but you got it free :)
The program needs about 5 seconds to start on the slowest PC's, perhaps
less.
If it takes longer, you have a problem (a very serious problem which, if you
can't solve it by not running memory-consuming programs, qualifies for
money-back, as with all other problems, I even offer money back for no
reason whatsoever. So far no takers.).
> Please don't compare with the freeware version. The freeware version
> runs fast enough. It's those pattern searches that are so slowing
> everything down.
Pattern searches *do not take any time* As in less than a tenth of a second.
I can now understand why you have been fomenting at the mouth so much and so
disappointed in Moyo Go.
I wonder why you simply haven't informed me about the problems you were
having instead of going on a rampage.
BramGo
stop acting like you are the victem here. You're really making me very
angry. I'll get even with you in some way. I'm not going to waste any
more time discussing with a 5year old.
If there is one of us that has allready destroyed his life it's you,
selling CD's for the rest of your life. Lol, I wonder how much you sell
a day. I don't believe you can make a living selling that crappy
program. I allready read in your forum there are weeks you don't even
sell a single one. Then again that's the price you are paying for bad
behaviour, spreading lies, and making terrible software.
BramGo
Wow, giving away my personal information now? You must feel really
confident today. Maybe I should sue you after all.
BramGo
I know how memory usage works. Like I have proven before, I know a lot
more about memory usage than you do. And if there's one thing I know:
If there are no applications running and I have a 512 MB system. It
should be able to run a simple database tool. Especially when it has as
little to offer as Moyogo does. >> almost nothing!
Yet, it doesn't. There are 2 possibilities!
- a memoryleak > CRAPPY PROGRAMMER
- CRAPPY SOFTWARE
DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ! I'm not the only one complaining about speed.
Your forum is full of remarks like this. Don't play dumb. Be honest
about your product ! It's SLOW. Kombilo runs at least 10 times as fast.
Frank de Groot
> If there is one of us that has allready destroyed his life it's you,
> selling CD's for the rest of your life.
They are DVD's.
> Lol, I wonder how much you sell a day.
0.75
> I don't believe you can make a living selling that crappy program.
Not here in Oslo I can't. I'm eating ramen noodles and shit like that.
But after I get my tax returns I'll move in with my girfriend in Czechia.
I make 800 USD/month on Moyo Go.
> I allready read in your forum there are weeks you don't even
> sell a single one.
Then again, when AGA publishes a negative review, the next day I run out of
raw materials :)
> Then again that's the price you are paying for bad
> behaviour, spreading lies, and making terrible software.
I am sorry for my bad behavior, my lies and my terrible software :)
Whatever I can do to placate you.. You said you wanted money?
Frank de Groot
> DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ! I'm not the only one complaining about speed.
> Your forum is full of remarks like this. Don't play dumb. Be honest
> about your product ! It's SLOW.
Moyo Go has no-delay search. As in less than a tenth of a second.
It still is possible to have delays (as I hear from approx. 2% of users,
which would be five people), which, I assume, are caused by memory
consumption of some kind, and it could indeed be a mem leak. However, as I
have been repeatedly assured, this is a minor issue because a simple restart
of the program solves it.
Going around screaming that the program is slow is pretty hilarious for the
only software that does its searches without noticeable delay (meaning, two
hundred fifty thousand search results in less than a second).
David Kinny
> First of all the lifelong update system has had several bugs and errors
> so far. If you have indeed been using the software from the start it's
> impossible that you have not encountered a single bug. See the
> moyogo-forum for detailed information about the updatebug.
All software has bugs. What matters is how fast they get fixed.
> And I am not lying about the speed! In fact I tried moyogo on 2 pc's so
> far. On one of them it took me 20 minutes to start the damned program!
Sounds like you don't know much about basic PC hygiene.
> Please don't compare with the freeware version. The freeware version
> runs fast enough. It's those pattern searches that are so slowing
> everything down.
You really have a talent for stating the obvious, don't you.
> And it has bugs all over it. It's been buggy from the start. In the
> first release you couldn't even review a complete sgf file without
> getting errors.
Buggy, like most first releases of anything. So what?
> I wonder why you are telling all these lies and good things while the
> program is such a nightmare? Your comments does gives a good clue:
> >"I've done a tiny review on my site, long time ago, when Moyo Go Studio was proof of concept"
It's clear that there are people out there who use and like moyogo.
It's clear that you're not one of them. Your criticisms of moyogo
are about as lame as it gets.
> Are you somebody that got a free copy in return for ... advertisement ?
> Well, you can't accept me to treat you as a reliable source.
Rather ironic, coming from someone who got themselves a free copy ...
The more you rant, the less convincing it gets. Your credibility is
now asymptotically approaching zero.
Frank de Groot
> All software has bugs. What matters is how fast they get fixed.
Thank you for standing up for me. It's much appreciated - I might seem tough
in talking but this is taking a toll on me.
My software has at least 100 known bugs. I meticulously administrate and
prioritize them.
Then again, MoyoGo now stands at 1,300,000 LOC (incl. all libraries) and
includes a Rich Text editor, an audio recording module, a SQL database and
whathaveyou.
Of course, the more stuff you make or incoprporate, the higher the bugcount
:)
Most or all of these bugs are (very) minor.
Updates are forever free, any bugs will eventually be fixed.
BramGo
And you are telling me I don't know how to take care of my PC?
>Rather ironic, coming from someone who got themselves a free copy ...
>The more you rant, the less convincing it gets. Your credibility is
>now asymptotically approaching zero.
Sounds like somebody wants me to shut up. But you are right it is very
ironic. Even a person with a FREE copy is dissapointed. That's exactly
how bad the program is. It should be released as a free alpha version,
or not released at all. But asking 69EUR for this crap?!
Frank de Groot
> or not released at all. But asking 69EUR for this crap?!
It's 56 Euro / 69 USD.
BramGo
56€ isn't much better. Maybe 10€ would be a more reasonable price.
Ofcourse there are cheaper and better alternatives:
If you want GOOD software I will give you some links:
TurboGo
The best available Joseki Teacher ! Free Trial Available! Each move has
plenty of comments.
http://www.joseki.com
Kombilo
The best pattern search tool available and completely free
http://www.u-go.net/kombilo/download
Gobase and Fuseki.info
www.gobase.org,
www.fuseki.info
2 great online pattern search tools. Fuseki.info is not completely
free, but I believe you can get a free limited version.
The BiGo Software
http://bigo.ufgo.org/games_to_books.html
Give it a try. It has a free trial.
The MasterGo Software
http://www.mastergo.com
Give it a try. Also has a free demo.
Many Faces Of Go
http://www.smart-games.com/manyfaces.html
The World Computer Go Champion of 2002 and 1998
Not only a very strong opponent to play with, it includes a great
joseki teacher, go problems, etc ... Free 9x9 player available!
The full software is a bit expensive but it's worth its money. This is
a go program that has won several international prices and is
recognized to be one of the best available learning tools. No bugs, no
strange things, a well finished program.
Pimenta
the translation of Moyo Go Studio to Portuguese. Frank said that he'd
rather wait before he started translating the app, or else he would
have to wait for a bunch of translators to update a number of strings
before he could release the next update. Still, he sent me the software
immediately, and I've been using it and updating it ever since, and the
only thing Frank has is my word I will do what I promised. That's a
fair bit of trust for somebody you only know through e-mail exchanges.
A fair stretch from robbing people's money with the fradulent product
you insist he's selling.
Moyo Go Studio does everything its author promises it does, including
providing near-instantaneous search results for all the pattern and
fuseki searches I have done so far. If you don't like it, it's your
problem, just don't lie about its capabilities.
It's getting difficult to buy a computer with less than 512Mb RAM these
days, and most have 1Gb already. The program's minimum requirements say
512Mb RAM minimum, so I don't know what your problem is.
Cheers,
Vasco Pimenta
Ted S.
news:1144501564.0...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Sounds like somebody wants me to shut up.
I want every flame thread on this subject to shut the **** up.
I guess I should spend less time reading rgg and more time looking at my
games to try to figure out what I'm doing wrong. :-)
--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
Oh Marge, anyone can miss Canada, all tucked away down there....
--Homer Simpson
-
In other words, the AGA has chosen to promulgate and promote
on its webpages many inferior products while targeting Mr. de Groot's
"MoyoGo" for villification, demonization, excoriation and damnation.
Perhaps an official (registered) complaint to the FTC (Federal Trade
Commission) is now an -appropriate- course of action. In particular,
remarks by Philip Waldron and Roy Laird appear to violate neutrality
in -every- sense of the term. They should be stricken from the record.
"BramGo" <bvand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ofcourse there are cheaper and better alternatives:
> If you want GOOD software I will give you some links:
>
> TurboGo
AGA website: "In DOS (318K) amd Windows (1.14M) versions
-- both versions include a tutorial. Don't miss their screen saver
-- use it to play through games when the computer is idle."
AGA website: "When your computer is idle, your mind can be
active as you watch each game progress, trying to guess the next
move. It's the next best thing to studying while you sleep! " (sic!)
( Roy Laird )
-{ No Unduly Negative Remarks }-
> Kombilo
> http://www.u-go.net/kombilo/download
AGA Website: "I would highly recommend Kombilo to anyone
looking for a go database." ( Philip Waldron, March 3, 2006 )
-{ No Unduly Negative Remarks }-
> Gobase and Fuseki.info
> www.gobase.org,
> www.fuseki.info
Results 1 - 100 of about 194 from www.usgo.org for "gobase".
-{ No Unduly Negative Remarks }-
>The BiGo Software
> http://bigo.ufgo.org/games_to_books.html
AGA Website: " ... I do think it has great potential. With a
little work, I think the next version BiGo could turn out to be
a winner." ( Philip Waldron, Jan 20, 2006 )
-{ No Unduly Negative Remarks }-
> The MasterGo Software
> http://www.mastergo.com
Results 1 - 31 of about 34 from www.usgo.org for "mastergo".
-{ No Unduly Negative Remarks }-
> Many Faces Of Go
> http://www.smart-games.com/manyfaces.html
Results 1 - 48 of about 188 from www.usgo.org for "many faces of go".
-{ No Unduly Negative Remarks }-
----------------
Results 1 - 4 of 4 from www.usgo.org for "moyogo"
-{ Several Unwarranted Negative Remarks }-
- regards
- jb
---------------------------------------------------
US Considers Nuking Iran: Huge expansion of Mideast war
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=8584
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simon...@gmail.com
was behind a firewall. I let Frank know about this, and in the space of
a few days, he had a new version of MoyoGo for me, that solved all my
problems. This is all documented in the forums on the MoyoGo website.
The lifelong update system has been PERFECT since then.