What do you think about this tactic?
Juza
an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a dire bear
and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage and
killing the lich.
The fantasy of players is infinite and can avoid any well prepared situation
the DM thought...n :s
Juza
Ben & Mary Ezzell
> The lich was entagled by black tentacles. The druid polymorphed himself into
> an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a dire bear
> and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage and
> killing the lich.
Will the direbear please roll for initiative vs the tentacles.
<evil grin>
Mary
Vador
WAAAAYYY cool. That is so hilarious and one of the coolest moves I ever
heard about.
If you don't like your main villain killed like that you could reduce
the damage due to fur or similar (since the fur cushions the impact,
half damage + half damage if he manages to flatten himself). I assume
that this is going to happen again.
Werebat
Ohhh, and again, and again, and again, if the DM allows it to work well.
The best solution to this sort of thing is to start using it against the
PCs. They'll come up with their own reasons why it shouldn't work then.
- Ron ^*^
lbeu...@aol.com
> an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a dire bear
> and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage and
> killing the lich.
result.
Polymorphing or wildshaping is a standard action (or maybe a move
action, if you have that feat). Once the transformation starts, the
subject would not be able to maintain its altitude, which means the
subject would drop. The subject (the druid) takes 1d6 points of falling
damage. The (annoyed looking) lich takes 1d6 points of bludgeoning
damage, which is reduced to 0 by its damage reduction. The druid is
immediatley attacked by the tentacles of the spell (while still medium
sized), then ends up fully transformed in an illegal square, and is
placed next to the lich.
Another word to 40d6 of damage by falling: I would set the damage to a
maximum of 20d6. If the players would start using weight as a weapon, I
would use the crushing rules in the Dragons entry. Otherwise all fights
against a dragon would be very short indeed. Breath weapon? It would
just hop on the opponents.
--
LB
Juza
anyway...
"Ben & Mary Ezzell" <ma...@dragontree.com> wrote in message
news:108qxxymnx4w.1xd44ohu2jicd$.dlg@40tude.net...
Juza
Juza
"Werebat" <ranpo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:zhUbh.3013$BI2....@newsfe20.lga...
Juza
<lbeu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1164973188.3...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> Well, I may be a mean DM, but in my game things would have a different
> result.
> Polymorphing or wildshaping is a standard action (or maybe a move
> action, if you have that feat). Once the transformation starts, the
> subject would not be able to maintain its altitude, which means the
> subject would drop.
This is exactly the idea's goal: transforming into something large and heavy
and crush someone fallin on him...
> The subject (the druid) takes 1d6 points of falling
> damage.
The druid is no more a druid but a direbear and doesn't care very much about
the falling damage...
The (annoyed looking) lich takes 1d6 points of bludgeoning
> damage, which is reduced to 0 by its damage reduction.
He would take the damage from the falling and heavy direbear, which also if
reduced to a max. of 20d6 and the dr of 15, it would be a considerable
damage (considering he was already bad wounded...)
Juza
Symbol
"Juza" <none> wrote in message news:4570189e$1...@news.bluewin.ch...
>
> <lbeu...@aol.com> wrote in message
> The (annoyed looking) lich takes 1d6 points of bludgeoning
> > damage, which is reduced to 0 by its damage reduction.
>
> He would take the damage from the falling and heavy direbear, which also
if
> reduced to a max. of 20d6 and the dr of 15, it would be a considerable
> damage (considering he was already bad wounded...)
He was arguing that the Druid would fall *before* the transformation into
Dire Bear is complete. That's not a big deal though, just fly higher.
20d6 is the max damage caused by a falling object though.
The real question is why the lich didn't escape from the tentacles while
the Druid was transforming into a harpy and flying directly above him. He
has at least a round to act.
lbeu...@aol.com
> Dire Bear is complete.
> That's not a big deal though, just fly higher.
No. I think the original intend was to deal a lot of damage and not to
receive that lot of damage. This may be the problem, though.
> 20d6 is the max damage caused by a falling object though.
OBJECT may be the keyword. The standard rules for falling do not
consider weight important. So if you bring in weight and have the fall
deal additional damage, all participants should receive the same amount
of damage. My recommandation is: forget the weight and use the standard
rules.
--
LB
Juza
can't cast spells with somatic component. Moreover it takes a full-round
action to retrive the spell components...
Or I missed something?
Juza
"Symbol" <jb...@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:leOdnejSo-8...@pipex.net...
Symbol
"Juza" <none> wrote in message news:45704cd6$1...@news.bluewin.ch...
Don't top post Juza. Standard Usenet practice places a reply below the
text to which it relates.
> > The real question is why the lich didn't escape from the tentacles
while
> > the Druid was transforming into a harpy and flying directly above him.
He
> > has at least a round to act.
> >
> The lich has a poor grapple check (against the +19 of the tentacles) and
he
> can't cast spells with somatic component. Moreover it takes a full-round
> action to retrive the spell components...
>
> Or I missed something?
Dimension Door.
The Mad Afro
Juza wrote:
> The lich was entagled by black tentacles. The druid polymorphed himself into
> an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a dire bear
> and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage and
> killing the lich.
Heh. 40d6 seems excessive to me, but this is still funny. There's an
interesting power in one of the Ravenloft books where some undead
explode when they are destroyed. Might want to remember that if you
want to discourage this tactic in the future. :)
--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
No 33 Secretary
> The lich was entagled by black tentacles. The druid polymorphed
> himself into an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he
> wildshaped into a dire bear and left himself fall on the lich
> (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage and killing the lich.
How much damage did the bear take? Newton's third law, and all.
--
"What is the first law?"
"To Protect."
"And the second?"
"Ourselves."
Terry Austin
No 33 Secretary
> And what would be a reasonable argument not to allow this??
"Because that will kill my character." Repeated over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over.
Malachias Invictus
"The Mad Afro" <mad...@grandecom.net> wrote in message
news:1164992389.0...@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
Additionally, this sort of tactic begs for both a Reflex save for the victim
and damage to the attacker.
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
The Mad Afro
Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "The Mad Afro" <mad...@grandecom.net> wrote in message
> news:1164992389.0...@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Juza wrote:
> >> The lich was entagled by black tentacles. The druid polymorphed himself
> >> into
> >> an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a dire
> >> bear
> >> and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage
> >> and
> >> killing the lich.
> >
> > Heh. 40d6 seems excessive to me, but this is still funny. There's an
> > interesting power in one of the Ravenloft books where some undead
> > explode when they are destroyed. Might want to remember that if you
> > want to discourage this tactic in the future. :)
>
> Additionally, this sort of tactic begs for both a Reflex save for the victim
> and damage to the attacker.
My thought was that being entangled by the Black Tentacles might do
away with the possibility of a Reflex save, but I could be wrong.
Regardless, I think the lich took way too much damage out of the deal;
the message to the druid's player is that it's more efficient to drop
yourself onto opponents than to use the Dire Bear form's actual
attacks.
Werebat
That's the point. You slap them with it enough times, and eventually
they'll come up with one FOR you.
- Ron ^*^
Werebat
lbeu...@aol.com wrote:
Exactimundo. You pull this on them even once, and they'll be falling
over themselves coming up with explanations FOR YOU for why it shouldn't
be allowed.
- Ron ^*^
Justisaur
Juza wrote:
> The lich was entagled by black tentacles. The druid polymorphed himself into
> an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a dire bear
> and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage and
> killing the lich.
>
As others have mentioned forget the weight, you are talking a
(relatively) soft object, not a solid rock. so 20d6
2nd the druid is taking this as well. As a DM I'd rule splitting the
difference, so 10d6 to both. Now this is a falling object so the lich
should be getting a reflex saving throw, lets say dc 10 as it's totally
uncontrolled fall from fairly high up. I'd say no damage if he makes
it as well. So if he makes it the relatively easy dc, the druid takes
20d6 falling damage, and the lich takes nothing. Even if he fails the
druid is taking 35 points, and he's only taking 20 on average (15 Dr).
/Evil DM Mode
The druid is falling and takes 20d6, there's nothing in the rules that
allow a falling character to damage another so the lich is totally
unharmed.
/Evil DM Mode off
- Justisaur
Werebat
Juza wrote:
> The lich has a poor grapple check (against the +19 of the tentacles) and he
> can't cast spells with somatic component. Moreover it takes a full-round
> action to retrive the spell components...
Teleport has only a Verbal component and doesn't require and material
components. I think the same is true of Dimension Door.
It's a pretty lame lich who has niether of those spells in memory.
- Ron ^*^
Matt Frisch
Top posting fixed...
>"Symbol" <jb...@talk21.com> wrote in message
>news:leOdnejSo-8...@pipex.net...
>> The real question is why the lich didn't escape from the tentacles while
>> the Druid was transforming into a harpy and flying directly above him. He
>> has at least a round to act.
>
>The lich has a poor grapple check (against the +19 of the tentacles) and he
>can't cast spells with somatic component. Moreover it takes a full-round
>action to retrive the spell components...
>
>Or I missed something?
What self-respecting lich is lacking a quickened teleport/dimension
door/word of recall spell (which are all vocal only, so no material or
somatic components)?
Bill Wayne
First of all, falling damage caps at 20d6. Furthermore, you could argue
that the bear would hit the ground *very* hard. IIRC:
Acceleration due to gravity is -32x. The antiderivative would be -16x^2
+ C, where C is zero. The displacement function would then be -5.3x^3 +
15. When set to 0 (it is, after all, falling), X becomes 1.4145.
Plugged into the vector function, said bear would be hitting the ground
at 32 feet per second, or 9.8 meters per second. With the mass in
kilograms being roughly 3,628, we plug both pieces of information into
the equation (M/2)v^2 to see that the bear will impact the ground with
a 1,859,052 joule kinetic force. That would do about as much damage as
if a modern day vulcan emptied 24 rounds into it.
In case you didn't follow all of that, the bear would probably
splatter.
Bill
DougL
> The lich was entagled by black tentacles. The druid polymorphed himself into
> an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a dire bear
> and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage and
> killing the lich.
Extra damage from the falling objects wieght in the rules is
specifically and clearly about objects. The Druid is only an object if
he is dead, so he doesn't do damage as a falling object.
1d6 to the Druid, at most 1d6 to the Lich.
Arguably NO damage to the lich, since there is no rule that says you
take any damage from having a character fall on you, but I'm willing to
houserule in 1d6.
DougL
Loren Pechtel
Falling damage for heavy things is fubared.
I'd allow it--but say you inherently take as much damage as you
inflict.
~consul
>> interesting power in one of the Ravenloft books where some undead
>> explode when they are destroyed. Might want to remember that if you
>> want to discourage this tactic in the future. :)
> Additionally, this sort of tactic begs for both a Reflex save for the victim
> and damage to the attacker.
That's what I was thinking. The Lich reflex saves or DD or teleports, and the victim lands
on a handily placed poisoned dagger.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For within these Trials, we
shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
Sea Wasp
That reminds me of the classic 1e tactic, take a sparrow, let it fly
over the enemy, polymorph it to a blue whale. BLUBBER BOMBS!
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Ben & Mary Ezzell
> "Ben & Mary Ezzell" <ma...@dragontree.com> wrote in message
> news:108qxxymnx4w.1xd44ohu2jicd$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> Will the direbear please roll for initiative vs the tentacles.
>>
>>
>> <evil grin>
>>
>> Mary
> And if he loose the initiative??
Well, if it's these black tentacles at
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm
they're rubbery and thick and waving around and immune from damage, so
they'll probably absorb* most of the impact. The extra weight of the
direbear might increase whatever damage the lich is taking from the
tentacles but probably not much.
Basically I'd say if the bear lands on the rubbery tentacles he'll bounce,
largely unharmed -- unless the tentacles can catch his legs before he
bounces.
*or diffuse it
Mary
~consul
> On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:46:05 +0100, Juza wrote:
>>> Will the direbear please roll for initiative vs the tentacles.
>>> <evil grin>
> Well, if it's these black tentacles at
> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm
> they're rubbery and thick and waving around and immune from damage, so
> they'll probably absorb* most of the impact. The extra weight of the
> direbear might increase whatever damage the lich is taking from the
> tentacles but probably not much.
>
> Basically I'd say if the bear lands on the rubbery tentacles he'll bounce,
> largely unharmed -- unless the tentacles can catch his legs before he
> bounces.
> *or diffuse it
That would be very funny, that the druid gets killed by his own machinations. Very
Coyote-like. :)
Malachias Invictus
>
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
>> "The Mad Afro" <mad...@grandecom.net> wrote in message
>> news:1164992389.0...@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Juza wrote:
>> >> The lich was entagled by black tentacles. The druid polymorphed
>> >> himself
>> >> into
>> >> an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a
>> >> dire
>> >> bear
>> >> and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of
>> >> damage
>> >> and
>> >> killing the lich.
>> >
>> > Heh. 40d6 seems excessive to me, but this is still funny. There's an
>> > interesting power in one of the Ravenloft books where some undead
>> > explode when they are destroyed. Might want to remember that if you
>> > want to discourage this tactic in the future. :)
>>
>> Additionally, this sort of tactic begs for both a Reflex save for the
>> victim
>> and damage to the attacker.
>
> My thought was that being entangled by the Black Tentacles might do
> away with the possibility of a Reflex save, but I could be wrong.
It is just like being grappled, and a grappled opponent still gets a Reflex
save.
> Regardless, I think the lich took way too much damage out of the deal;
Absolutely.
> the message to the druid's player is that it's more efficient to drop
> yourself onto opponents than to use the Dire Bear form's actual
> attacks.
Not good.
SeaHen
> I'd allow it--but say you inherently take as much damage as you
> inflict.
I don't agree with that, if there's a substantial difference in
hardness between the falling and landed-on objects/characters (the
softer one takes more damage).
In this case, though, the bear's fur would cushion the damage to the
lich more than to the bear, and the lich would provide little
cushioning at all. Unless the lich suffered from advanced osteoporosis,
it would probably take little damage. The bear would be a bit bruised,
but definitely not lose 20d6 hp.
All this, though, is ignoring the effect of the tentacles which, if
rubbery and invulverable as described in
http://base.google.com/base/a/1427117/D1912748788314425594, would
probably absorb all the damage, leaving both bear (assuming it landed
on its paws after bouncing) and lich unharmed.
In general, I think the potential for creative problem-solving, and
even for a battle of creativities between DM and players, is one of the
great things about RPGs. But realism/plausibility is more important
than creativity, or even than The Rules.
WDS
SeaHen wrote:
> Loren Pechtel wrote:
>
> > I'd allow it--but say you inherently take as much damage as you
> > inflict.
> I don't agree with that, if there's a substantial difference in
> hardness between the falling and landed-on objects/characters (the
> softer one takes more damage).
It's a lot more complicated than that. Suppose you have a 10 pound cat
and a 10 pound slab of stone. Drop the cat on the stone (from a
reasonable hieght) and neither will take any damage. Drop the stone on
the cat from almost any height beyond a foot or so and the cat will be
squished.
> ...
> In general, I think the potential for creative problem-solving, and
> even for a battle of creativities between DM and players, is one of the
> great things about RPGs. But realism/plausibility is more important
> than creativity, or even than The Rules.
The OP was just being silly/stupid. There'd just no way a living
creature, even a big one, dropped onto something from 15 feet is going
to do 20d6 damage. With that much damage it could punch a hole in a
slab of steel. Is it going to hurt? Yeah. But the thing being
dropped on in this case was a magical being of immense power that
normally takes little damage from physical attacks.
And D&D doesn't handle falling well for creatures (or anything for that
matter) anyway. Really big creatures take immense damage from falling
even small distances while small creatures can fall long distances and
not be hurt. But in D&D the big critter will have more hit points and
thus not be badly injured while the little one will be obliterated.
Juza
"Matt Frisch" <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:8c51n29i906gc95in...@4ax.com...
> What self-respecting lich is lacking a quickened teleport/dimension
> door/word of recall spell (which are all vocal only, so no material or
> somatic components)?
The problem is that the lich's home has a dimensional lock all over it
(except the "summoning room") because he doesn't want unwanted (sorry for
the word's trick :) ) visitors to come in and he doesn't want enemy to
escape when they are in difficulty >)...
Juza
Juza
"Justisaur" <just...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165000904.2...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> As others have mentioned forget the weight, you are talking a
> (relatively) soft object, not a solid rock. so 20d6
Still quite an important damage...
>
> 2nd the druid is taking this as well. As a DM I'd rule splitting the
> difference, so 10d6 to both. Now this is a falling object so the lich
> should be getting a reflex saving throw, lets say dc 10 as it's totally
> uncontrolled fall from fairly high up. I'd say no damage if he makes
> it as well. So if he makes it the relatively easy dc, the druid takes
> 20d6 falling damage, and the lich takes nothing. Even if he fails the
> druid is taking 35 points, and he's only taking 20 on average (15 Dr).
Why the druid will take the same damage? The rules say you take 1d6/10 feet
of nonlethal damage from falling... Or I missunderstood something??
Juza
Juza
"SeaHen" <seah...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165111789.8...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
> In general, I think the potential for creative problem-solving, and
> even for a battle of creativities between DM and players, is one of the
> great things about RPGs. But realism/plausibility is more important
> than creativity, or even than The Rules.
>
The problem is that with "my players" the realism/plausibility seems to be
more applicable when things are done against them, rather when they do
things. In the latter what counts are the rules (and if there are no
specific rules, the more similar applicable rule; in this case "damage from
falling objects")...
Juza
Geoff Watson
"Juza" <none> wrote in message news:456fe073$1...@news.bluewin.ch...
> The lich was entagled by black tentacles. The druid polymorphed himself
into
> an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a dire
bear
> and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage
and
> killing the lich.
>
situation
> the DM thought...n :s
>
Well, the falling objects rules are extremely stupid.
At best, I'd use the rules for a dragon's Crush attack, and the druid would
probably be a lot worse (can't aim, no practice, etc).
Geoff.
Mark Blunden
> Why the druid will take the same damage? The rules say you take
> 1d6/10 feet of nonlethal damage from falling... Or I missunderstood
> something??
Well, for one thing, that's falling onto a reasonably flat surface, not
impaling yourself on a sharp lich.
--
Mark Blunden.
Ken Andrews
> "Justisaur" <just...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> As others have mentioned forget the weight, you are talking a
>> (relatively) soft object, not a solid rock. so 20d6
>
> Still quite an important damage...
>
>
>> 2nd the druid is taking this as well. As a DM I'd rule splitting the
>> difference, so 10d6 to both. Now this is a falling object so the lich
>> should be getting a reflex saving throw, lets say dc 10 as it's totally
>> uncontrolled fall from fairly high up. I'd say no damage if he makes
>> it as well. So if he makes it the relatively easy dc, the druid takes
>> 20d6 falling damage, and the lich takes nothing. Even if he fails the
>> druid is taking 35 points, and he's only taking 20 on average (15 Dr).
>
> Why the druid will take the same damage? The rules say you take 1d6/10
> feet of nonlethal damage from falling... Or I missunderstood something??
First, when did falling damage become nonlethal? If it's nonlethal, then a
1st level character can jump off a thousand foot cliff and just wait to wake
up.
The only time falling damage becomes nonlethal is if you jump down, and then
only 1d6 becomes nonlethal, not 1d6 per 10 feet.
When the druid shapechanges, that isn't a jump; that's a fall.
Second, if you consider the Tentacles to be a yielding surface (I wouldn't),
then converts 1 more D6 to nonlethal damage.
Third, the druid takes the same damage he delivers because A) fairness; It's
hardly fair for him to take 1D6 nonlethal and give 40D6 lethal, and B)
equivalence. Two objects of roughly the same density (bear and body) should
take/give roughly the same damage on collision. If anything, the bear
should be taking more because the lich is backed up by hard, cold ground
while the bear is backed up by... more bear.
Fourth, I expect that one of the general assumptions of the "falling object"
rules is a *hard* falling object. The bear has a certain amount of flex
built in, not to mention legs and a head that stick out. When the middle of
the bear is landing on the lich, it's quite possible that his legs are
already striking the ground. Consider this: A net weighs 10 pounds. It
drops from 60 feet. It therefore deals 1D6 damage. However, is that folded
up into a tight bundle, or spread out and spinning? If the latter, I'd rule
that it does no damage. At this point we're getting into the tricky rules
of areal density and drag. I drop a 100 lb block of lead and a 100 lb
loose-pack bag of feathers. Which one would you rather have hit you? The
bear falls (sorry) in between those two.
Del Rio
Mark Blunden <markATmark...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>Well, for one thing, that's falling onto a reasonably flat surface, not
>impaling yourself on a sharp lich.
Unless it's the lich of a Conehead wizard.
--
"I know I promised, Lord, never again. But I also know
that YOU know what a weak-willed person I am."
Justisaur
Offer to to put them in a bear suit and drop them on a mummified corpse
surrounded by tires propped up from a the top of a 100 foot building.
They'll be lucky to hit the corpse in the first place, and even if they
do it's still going to hurt a hell of a lot, even if it doesn't kill
them.
- Justisaur.
DougL
> "SeaHen" <seahen...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1165111789.8...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
>
> > In general, I think the potential for creative problem-solving, and
> > even for a battle of creativities between DM and players, is one of the
> > great things about RPGs. But realism/plausibility is more important
> more applicable when things are done against them, rather when they do
> things. In the latter what counts are the rules (and if there are no
> specific rules, the more similar applicable rule; in this case "damage from
> falling objects")...
But objects is a term of art in D&D3.x and does NOT include living
characters.
Hence if going stricktly by the written rules they do ZERO damage to
the lich.
The rules as written do NOT result in 40d6 to the lich.
DougL
Matt Frisch
The fool who flees into a room with only 1 door deserves his fate.
Ben & Mary Ezzell
> "SeaHen" <seah...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165111789.8...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
>> In general, I think the potential for creative problem-solving, and
>> even for a battle of creativities between DM and players, is one of the
>> great things about RPGs. But realism/plausibility is more important
>> than creativity, or even than The Rules.
In our world, anyway.
> The problem is that with "my players" the realism/plausibility seems to be
> more applicable when things are done against them, rather when they do
> things. In the latter what counts are the rules (and if there are no
> specific rules, the more similar applicable rule; in this case "damage from
> falling objects")...
It sounds like this is an issue you might get clear with your players some
time out of game: that it's going to be the same standard both times.
Plausibility is a useful standard, because then if they start to argue
rules during play, you can say "You see the Paladin talking to some
imaginary person in the sky about something called a 'rulebook'...."
Mary
The Mad Afro
Justisaur wrote:
> Juza wrote:
> > The problem is that with "my players" the realism/plausibility seems to be
> > more applicable when things are done against them, rather when they do
> > things. In the latter what counts are the rules (and if there are no
> > specific rules, the more similar applicable rule; in this case "damage from
> > falling objects")...
>
> Offer to to put them in a bear suit and drop them on a mummified corpse
> surrounded by tires propped up from a the top of a 100 foot building.
You totally need to submit this to Mythbusters.
--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Malachias Invictus
Put me down for the DVD.
Justisaur
I love that show, that's my favorite show on TV since it started.
Battlestar Galactica is a close 2nd though. Probably why I started
thinking of that. ;)
Hmm... how to submit it though... "I heard a story about a bear being
dropped from a 100 foot crane onto an old man in a tire yard, the old
man died, but the bear was apparently uninjured."
That would be totally hilarious if they actually did this one.
- Justisaur
Ken Andrews
Just out of curiosity, the original was the Druid at 15 feet, wasn't it? So
why's it up to 100 feet now?
You'd simply pose it to them as the bear jumping down on the old man from a
ledge. Or the roof. Or a cow falling on him from the roof.
Justisaur
It's a myth now, it has to get exaggerated ;) (yeah that's the ticket)
> You'd simply pose it to them as the bear jumping down on the old man from a
> ledge. Or the roof. Or a cow falling on him from the roof.
I like that one, a cow falling from somewhere... Are cows 8000 lbs?
- Justisaur
Ken Andrews
No, but elephants are...
But, sarge, how'd the elephant get *up* there?
Corporal, who's gonna stop him?
The Mad Afro
Justisaur wrote:
> The Mad Afro wrote:
> > Justisaur wrote:
> > > Offer to to put them in a bear suit and drop them on a mummified corpse
> > > surrounded by tires propped up from a the top of a 100 foot building.
> >
> > You totally need to submit this to Mythbusters.
> Hmm... how to submit it though... "I heard a story about a bear being
> dropped from a 100 foot crane onto an old man in a tire yard, the old
> man died, but the bear was apparently uninjured."
>
> That would be totally hilarious if they actually did this one.
It'd be a giant teddy bear filled with ballistics gel and ball bearings
dropped from 15, 50, and 200 feet on top of Buster (or a medical
skeleton), who is dressed up as a wizard and bound with rubber hose.
Ken Andrews
SeaHen
Justisaur wrote:
> > Just out of curiosity, the original was the Druid at 15 feet, wasn't it? So
> > why's it up to 100 feet now?
>
> It's a myth now, it has to get exaggerated ;) (yeah that's the ticket)
100 feet is very different from 15 in terms of the difficulty of (a)
hitting the target (especially with wind), (b) landing on one's feet
after bouncing off the tires, and (c) having one's bear suit absorb all
the impact force if one misses all the tires.
Ben & Mary Ezzell
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm
20-ft.-radius spread .... a field of rubbery black tentacles, each 10 feet
long. These waving members .... holding them fast and crushing them with
great strength. .... Material Component: A piece of tentacle from a giant
octopus or a giant squid.
I'd adjudicate these tentacles as having the same shape as the tentacles of
the source of the mat com, but consistency that allows them to behave in
the air the same way the original tentacles behaved in water: ie
self-supporting but very flexible. This would put their consistency softer
than tires or stiff rubber garden hose. Also the ones that aren't wrapped
round the lich are waving 10 ft in the air groping for new prey. Even
disregarding any bounce factor, those waving tentacles will absorb a lot of
impact as they're flattened.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direBear.htm
A typical dire bear is 12 feet long and weighs as much as 8,000 pounds.
If details were necessary, I'd do some rolling between the lich and the
tentacles to see what position the lich is in when the bear lands. If the
lich is upright with only the closest tentacles attached to him, the bear
may not take much damage because there will be upright waving tentacles
everywhere to absorb impact. If the lich is already spreadeaged on the
ground and encased in tentacles, making a flat area with little to absorb
the impact, then however much of the bear's 12-foot length lands in that
flat area will take some damage.
Even if the lich is flat on the ground, I'd give the bear a mediocre chance
of timing his flight and his change just right to land squarely on the
lich. But a 20-ft radius area is a 40-ft circle, so he's almost sure to
land within that circle if he starts his fall at 15 feet above the lich.
Mary
Chipacabra
news:1bvrye8eos7nq.f...@40tude.net:
> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direBear.htm
> A typical dire bear is 12 feet long and weighs as much as 8,000
> pounds.
Which reminds me: One thing to consider during this discussion is that
quite a lot of the weights listed for monsters and animals are pure
nonsense. At least the goofy weapon weights can be handwaved as bulkiness.
If you're wielding a dire bear, falling damage is the least of your rules
worries.
Werebat
Juza wrote:
This is why the lich has at least one small alcove that isn't in the
radius of the spell (behind a permanent Prismatic Wall works well). And
casts Anticipate Teleport.
Why, this just happened IMC last night.
- Ron ^*^
The Mad Afro
At least you no longer have to worry about the speed factor...
Ben & Mary Ezzell
> In article <457416f3$0$8724$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
> Mark Blunden <markATmark...@address.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>Well, for one thing, that's falling onto a reasonably flat surface, not
>>impaling yourself on a sharp lich.
>
> Unless it's the lich of a Conehead wizard.
:-)
This is why I'd play out some of the melee that happened between the lich
and the tentacles before the bear fell. If the lich is upright, keeping his
footing, and is in the grasp of stiff tentacles slanting up to him from all
sides like guy-wires -- well, dunno about impalement, but that could be a
strong blow in the guts if the bear landed directly on him.
If the lich is flat on the ground and all the tentacles in reach have him
already stiffly grasped -- that's a hard knobby surface for however much of
the bear lands on it.
If a lot of tentacles are upright and waving around where the bear falls,
they'll absorb or disperse a lot of the impact. They'll also try to grab
the bear before he hits the ground. If they do grab him, he won't take
ground-impact damage, just the normal tentacle bludgeoning damage.
Well, actually, I'd start with having the druid roll intelligence re
whether he sees what the tentacles and the lich are doing before he
actually makes the change. :-)
Mary
Ubiquitous
>The lich was entagled by black tentacles. The druid polymorphed himself into
>an harpy and flew 15 feet over the lich. Than he wildshaped into a dire bear
>and left himself fall on the lich (8000 lb.) causing him 40d6 of damage and
>killing the lich.
Harpies are not animals.
I think there's a 20d6 limit for falling damage. I'm not sure about the
falling druid taking no damage at all from the fall either.
So how did he fight his way out of the tenacles afterward?