Martial Quarterstaff Idea
Tetsubo
<http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=694416>, I've come up with
this:
Bludgeoning, 1d8/1d8 x2, Double Weapon. Pretty much just a single
bump up in damage die from the Simple version. As for fluff... I'd like
it to remain a purely wooden weapon, just thicker and of superior
materials. But adding steel shods to both ends makes sense I guess... I
simply like the idea of a warrior just hacking a weapon out of a tree
branch or sapling and going to town doing some major damage... would it
be unbalancing to just let the weapon be purely wooden? A Greatclub is
1d10 and it's just wood...
Or you could go Exotic and make it 1d10/1d10...
I've always thought the Quarterstaff was an odd Simple weapon
anyway... it just seemed "shoehorned" into the Simple category so that
everyone and his brother could use one...
--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller
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Eric P.
Tetsubo <tet...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Using this weapon balancing system
> <http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=694416>, I've come up with
> this:
>
> Bludgeoning, 1d8/1d8 x2, Double Weapon. Pretty much just a single
> bump up in damage die from the Simple version. As for fluff... I'd like
> it to remain a purely wooden weapon, just thicker and of superior
> materials. But adding steel shods to both ends makes sense I guess... I
> simply like the idea of a warrior just hacking a weapon out of a tree
> branch or sapling and going to town doing some major damage... would it
> be unbalancing to just let the weapon be purely wooden? A Greatclub is
> 1d10 and it's just wood...
So, it's no longer a quarterstaff, but a halfstaff or something, right?
:) Improved Quarterstaff. Something like that. Seems to need its own
name, to distinguish it.
It's usually a good idea to trim that tree branch up a bit before
handling it as a weapon, or even as a walking stick. You'd want
to remove some of the pointy bits, maybe smooth off the ends
some. Possibly even (but I've never done this) add a leather hand
grip, or carve one or more into the wood.
Because the weapon is normally all wood, I think steel shoes/endcaps
should add a plus or two to damage, as that makes the weapon
more "hurty," if you will.
> Or you could go Exotic and make it 1d10/1d10...
>
> I've always thought the Quarterstaff was an odd Simple weapon
> anyway... it just seemed "shoehorned" into the Simple category so that
> everyone and his brother could use one...
Agreed. It takes more skill to effectively use such a weapon than it
does a club. I know that I wouldn't be good with a q'staff, but I
can smash with a club as well as most folks.
- E
Eric P.
Silly me :P
- E
Jasin Zujovic
> [snip Martial, Exotic quarterstaff]
There have been ideas about treating some weapons (quarterstaves and
spears in particular came up) similar to bastard sword. The bastard
sword is 1d10 19-20/x2 two-handed Martial and 1d10 19-20/x2 one-handed
Exotic.
People with Simple weapon proficiency use the quarterstaff as it is now.
But someone with proficient in all martial weapons (or someone who took
Martial Weapon Proficiency (quarterstaf)) might get a +1 shield bonus to
AC when wielding a quarterstaff (just look at Robin Hood defending with
a quarterstaff in all those movies).
So the Martial version is not a different weapon, just a different mode
of use.
--
Jasin Zujovic
Tetsubo
I think I might roll an AC bonus like that into a Staff character
class...
Any thoughts on a good name for a class build around a staff? Staff
Master would work but seems sort of dull...
Eric P.
Tetsubo <tet...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>
> >In article <450082B3...@comcast.net>, tet...@comcast.net says...
> >
> >
> >
> >>[snip Martial, Exotic quarterstaff]
> >>
> >>
> >
> >There have been ideas about treating some weapons (quarterstaves and
> >spears in particular came up) similar to bastard sword. The bastard
> >sword is 1d10 19-20/x2 two-handed Martial and 1d10 19-20/x2 one-handed
> >Exotic.
> >
> >People with Simple weapon proficiency use the quarterstaff as it is now.
> >But someone with proficient in all martial weapons (or someone who took
> >Martial Weapon Proficiency (quarterstaf)) might get a +1 shield bonus to
> >AC when wielding a quarterstaff (just look at Robin Hood defending with
> >a quarterstaff in all those movies).
> >
> >So the Martial version is not a different weapon, just a different mode
> >of use.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> I think I might roll an AC bonus like that into a Staff character
> class...
>
> Any thoughts on a good name for a class build around a staff? Staff
> Master would work but seems sort of dull...
Way of the Staff...Order of the Staff Initiate...Trouncer...Staver...
That's all I've got right now. You probably wouldn't go for Whackmaster
*LOL*
- E
Simon Lipscomb
>
> Any thoughts on a good name for a class build around a staff? Staff
> Master would work but seems sort of dull...
>
In the World of Conclave there is a fighting style called 'Crane Style'
which involves the use of twinned bo staves, quarterstaffs and lots of
flashy maneuvers, especially in the Northern Crane school, less so
Yellow Crane.
So if you were going setting-specific you could come up with a similar
'school' of fighting.
Or how about 'Friends of Little John"? :)
Simon Lipscomb
> I've always thought the Quarterstaff was an odd Simple weapon
> anyway... it just seemed "shoehorned" into the Simple category so that
> everyone and his brother could use one...
>
To use it effectively, though, you need to take the Two-Weapon fighting
feats. Otherwise you can only really make use of one end without
penalties and it's little more than a long club.
Hold the phone, Iron Heroes has a few feat trees specific to wepoan
types. I can recall one for knife-fighters and another for tridents,
I'll go and see if there is a quarterstaff based one.
The Mad Afro
Tetsubo wrote:
> Any thoughts on a good name for a class build around a staff? Staff
> Master would work but seems sort of dull...
Staff Wielder?
Shafted Ones?
Pole Dancers?
Sons of Donatello?
The Order of the Stick? (cough)
--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Madkaugh
There is already a double mace with the stats you mention.
Check in the Arms and Equipment Guide. (It's also in NWN,
and it's called a 'dire mace' there.)
There are no rules for a steel shod club or quarterstaff.
If the bands of metal are substantial enough to make a
difference, I'd treat it as a variety of mace.
MadKaugh
Aaron F. Bourque
A lot of "exotic" weapons could use this type of mode of use
distinction. Shurikens, for example, should just be Simple, unless you
want to through multiple ones per attack. Then it's Exotic, else you're
wasting your gear.
Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; the Trident, too. A shortspear with
two extra prongs, unless you've got Exotic: Trident then . . .
actually, it really would just have an increased crit damage
multiplier, from the barbs, right? I imagine it would be good for
disarms, what witht the prongs, but I can't seem to find any evidence
it was ever used for such. Ooh! It could be used to "pin" an enemy for
a round, like a ranged grapple!
Madkaugh
It's on page 8 of the Arms and Equipment Guide. Weight 25 lb.
> (It's also in NWN, and it's called a 'dire mace' there.)
The NWN one is 20 lb.
Both of these sources are based on 3.0, not 3.5.
Madkaugh
Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In article <450082B3...@comcast.net>, tet...@comcast.net says...
>
> > [snip Martial, Exotic quarterstaff]
>
> There have been ideas about treating some weapons (quarterstaves and
> spears in particular came up) similar to bastard sword. The bastard
> sword is 1d10 19-20/x2 two-handed Martial and 1d10 19-20/x2 one-handed
> Exotic.
>
> People with Simple weapon proficiency use the quarterstaff as it is now.
> But someone with proficient in all martial weapons (or someone who took
> Martial Weapon Proficiency (quarterstaf)) might get a +1 shield bonus to
> AC when wielding a quarterstaff (just look at Robin Hood defending with
> a quarterstaff in all those movies).
Wouldn't that be a +1 or +2 to parry, rather than a shield bonus?
Madkaugh
Aaron F. Bourque wrote:
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> > In article <450082B3...@comcast.net>, tet...@comcast.net says...
> >
> > > [snip Martial, Exotic quarterstaff]
> >
> > There have been ideas about treating some weapons (quarterstaves and
> > spears in particular came up) similar to bastard sword. The bastard
> > sword is 1d10 19-20/x2 two-handed Martial and 1d10 19-20/x2 one-handed
> > Exotic.
> >
> > People with Simple weapon proficiency use the quarterstaff as it is now.
> > But someone with proficient in all martial weapons (or someone who took
> > Martial Weapon Proficiency (quarterstaf)) might get a +1 shield bonus to
> > AC when wielding a quarterstaff (just look at Robin Hood defending with
> > a quarterstaff in all those movies).
> >
> > So the Martial version is not a different weapon, just a different mode
> > of use.
>
> A lot of "exotic" weapons could use this type of mode of use
> distinction. Shurikens, for example, should just be Simple, unless you
> want to through multiple ones per attack. Then it's Exotic, else you're
> wasting your gear.
>
> Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; the Trident, too. A shortspear with
> two extra prongs, unless you've got Exotic: Trident then . . .
> actually, it really would just have an increased crit damage
> multiplier, from the barbs, right?
You could use -1 to opponent's dodge.
MadKaugh
Dragonkat
The Mad Afro wrote:
> Tetsubo wrote:
>
> > Any thoughts on a good name for a class build around a staff? Staff
> > Master would work but seems sort of dull...
>
> Staff Wielder?
> Shafted Ones?
> Pole Dancers?
> Sons of Donatello?
> The Order of the Stick? (cough)
>
Staff Dancer, Cult of the Staff, or Robin's Staffers??
Dragonkat
Tetsubo
Grand Master of Thwack?
Tetsubo
Ah, the D&D weapon weights never cease to entertain... silly, silly
game designers...
>
>
>
>>(It's also in NWN, and it's called a 'dire mace' there.)
>>
>>
>
>The NWN one is 20 lb.
>
>Both of these sources are based on 3.0, not 3.5.
>
>
>
>
>>There are no rules for a steel shod club or quarterstaff.
>>If the bands of metal are substantial enough to make a
>>difference, I'd treat it as a variety of mace.
>>
>>MadKaugh
>>
>>
>
> "
>
>
>
Madkaugh
> Using this weapon balancing system
> <http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=694416>, I've come up with
> this:
>
> Bludgeoning, 1d8/1d8 x2, Double Weapon. Pretty much just a single
> bump up in damage die from the Simple version. As for fluff... I'd like
> it to remain a purely wooden weapon, just thicker and of superior
> materials.
'just thicker' makes sense. 'of superior materials' begs the question,
"how does the use of this material affect other clubs?"
> But adding steel shods to both ends makes sense I guess...
Steel shods make sense, but it becomes a mace within the D&D
rules, no?
> I simply like the idea of a warrior just hacking a weapon out of a
> tree branch or sapling and going to town doing some major damage...
> would it be unbalancing to just let the weapon be purely wooden?
> A Greatclub is 1d10 and it's just wood...
The core rules have a club (1d6, x2), a quarterstaff (double club by
the stats), and a great club (1d10, x2) that all fit your criteria.
To me it would make more sense to make a great club free than
to add a new heavier double club.
More club varieties that could be available:
1d8, x2 hand and a half club, per bastard sword - simple,
exotic weapon feat to use one handed. 5 lb, 1 gp.
Short walking stick size; a shillelagh (not the spell);
a baseball bat would be a MW example. No range
increment.
1d4, x2 light club, finessable. The size of a night stick.
2 lb, 1 gp, so it is not better than a hand hammer.
(The existing weapons should still make sense.)
Then I'd give it 10 range increment like a club and
make it simple; or you could make it 20 range
increment and martial, then it is exactly like a
hand hammer.
1d3, x2 concealable club (dagger concealment rules).
A short truncheon, 1 lb, 1 gp, also 10 range
increment and simple. (Of course finessable)
Here's an oddity:
Light Mace 1d6, x2, >> 4lb. <<, light weapon, finessable.
Club 1d6, x2, >> 3lb. <<, medium weapon, not finessable.
> Or you could go Exotic and make it 1d10/1d10...
A double great weapon? That's too much like anime swords for me,
but whatever floats your boat, man.
> I've always thought the Quarterstaff was an odd Simple weapon
> anyway... it just seemed "shoehorned" into the Simple category so that
> everyone and his brother could use one...
>
> --
> Tetsubo
I agree with that. I believe it is a holdover from 1st ed
and 'Wizards carry staves'.
OTOH, it is entirely wooden, and is free - you can find
one - so even a peasant can have one. In a culture that
restricts weapons, a quarterstaff would pass for a tool,
or a tool handle.
A quarterstaff lacks some of the drawbacks of other
double weapons - the hazard of the second blade,
the high moment of inertia - so would be easier to
learn.
MadKaugh
Madkaugh
Tetsubo wrote:
> Using this weapon balancing system
> <http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=694416>
I like the approach OrbitalB took with his weapon balance
system (BTW, thanks for posting the link), but his chart
is quirky. Why would 'simple' and 'martial' weigh in the same?
I would rate x3 slightly higher than 19-20, x2, and x4 slightly
higher than 18-20, x2. He underrates reach (inclusive) - and
should be allowing for increments.
Overall, it looks like a good sanity check, but I'd like to see
the next beta release.
He makes a comment that cost and weight don't matter, but
look at this:
Mace, heavy 12 gp 1d8 ×2 8 lb. Bludgeoning
Morningstar 8 gp 1d8 ×2 6 lb. Bludgeoning and piercing
MadKaugh
Madkaugh
The 20 lb weight used in NWN makes sense if you figure
that the heads are each a heavy mace and the shaft is like
a quarterstaff.
MadKaugh
Some Guy
Morris dancers!
J.M. Joensuu
On the Giant it the Playground forums (i.e. the site where Order of the
Stick appears), Quarterstaves spawned threads, feats and Prestige
Classes some time ago. Hmm, it might've been in the spring. Any way, as
it happens that another Quarterstaff-themed feat was posted for comments
today, I mentioned this thread and this idea of Martial (and/or Exotic),
uses of Quarterstaves or other simple weapons. I also quoted Jasin's
post above. I hope no one is offended, but the idea, at least, is
general enough to be posted to another forum (in the "a place of
discussion" meaning; I know newsgroups aren't the same thing as web
forums); however, I don't know if Jasin wants his post quoted in a web
forum. If you want me to edit my post and remove the quote, feel free to
contact me or just reply to this post.
The new thread is here:
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=homebrew;action=display;num=1157986149
In case that doesn't work, here's a tinyurl.com to the same address:
http://tinyurl.com/k6o4h
Janne )`'´( Joensuu,
Endoperez,
janne.joensuu (_a} oppivat.net
Jasin Zujovic
janne....@oppivat.net says...
> >> [snip Martial, Exotic quarterstaff]
> >
> > There have been ideas about treating some weapons (quarterstaves and
> > spears in particular came up) similar to bastard sword. The bastard
> > sword is 1d10 19-20/x2 two-handed Martial and 1d10 19-20/x2 one-handed
> > Exotic.
> >
> > People with Simple weapon proficiency use the quarterstaff as it is now.
> > But someone with proficient in all martial weapons (or someone who took
> > Martial Weapon Proficiency (quarterstaf)) might get a +1 shield bonus to
> > AC when wielding a quarterstaff (just look at Robin Hood defending with
> > a quarterstaff in all those movies).
> >
> > So the Martial version is not a different weapon, just a different mode
> > of use.
>
> On the Giant it the Playground forums (i.e. the site where Order of the
> Stick appears), Quarterstaves spawned threads, feats and Prestige
> Classes some time ago. Hmm, it might've been in the spring. Any way, as
> it happens that another Quarterstaff-themed feat was posted for comments
> today, I mentioned this thread and this idea of Martial (and/or Exotic),
> uses of Quarterstaves or other simple weapons. I also quoted Jasin's
> post above. I hope no one is offended, but the idea, at least, is
> general enough to be posted to another forum (in the "a place of
> discussion" meaning; I know newsgroups aren't the same thing as web
> forums); however, I don't know if Jasin wants his post quoted in a web
> forum.
I HATE WEB FORUMS!1!1!! THEY SEDUCE YOUNG PEAOPLE AWAY FROM READING
USENET!!1
> If you want me to edit my post and remove the quote, feel free to
> contact me or just reply to this post.
Nice of you to ask, but don't worry about it. In fact, I'm glad if
someone finds something I wrote useful enough to quote.
> The new thread is here:
> http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=homebrew;action=display;num=1157986149
>
> In case that doesn't work, here's a tinyurl.com to the same address:
> http://tinyurl.com/k6o4h
--
Jasin Zujovic