SR - Aztlan, the horrors, and the Earthdawnesque Apocalypse
Thomas Berman
here on a real provider. (Flames by personal e-mail, please.)
Anyway, although I'm a newbie, I know a lot about SR, so I bring the
dynamic but infamous topic: Horrors in SR.
To stir the pot:
Here are a pair of my theories.
The Horrors have since ancient times been "tricking" the people of
Central America to do blood magic to weaken the barriers between wherever
they are and earth. Think about it... conjuring before the awakening using
blood rites for fuel. The early Mayan (and later Aztec, and possibly Inca)
shamans would see visions of spirits that told them to fight wars to
capture more sacrifice victims. Related info can be found in
Cybertechnology. Quetzacoatl is pretty similar to Ysrgrathe. The entire
nation of Aztlan a puppet for the horrors? Chilling, neh?
The horrors weakness lies in technology, probably matrix technology.
They've been hinting this big time in Black Madonna, Aztlan, Virtual
Realities 2, and other sources. The solution to a Horror invasion seems to
have something to do with true AI and magic. Maybe "space magic", the way
to manipulate astral energies outside of earth, has something to do with
it.
Okay, something to stir the pot.
Oh, and my opinion about the much hated idea of the SR/ED crossover:
If you don't like it, don't run it!!!
End of rant. Any other ideas?
Thanks,
Thomas Berman (Ny...@usa.pipeline.com)
Dave
>Here are a pair of my theories.
>
> The Horrors have since ancient times been "tricking" the people of
>Central America to do blood magic to weaken the barriers between wherever
>they are and earth. Think about it... conjuring before the awakening using
>blood rites for fuel. The early Mayan (and later Aztec, and possibly Inca)
>shamans would see visions of spirits that told them to fight wars to
>capture more sacrifice victims. Related info can be found in
>Cybertechnology. Quetzacoatl is pretty similar to Ysrgrathe. The entire
>nation of Aztlan a puppet for the horrors? Chilling, neh?
If the Great Ghost Dance made a tear in the fabric that separates "us" from
the Horrors, then imagine the power released by the sacrifice of tens of
thousnads of people a year! (The Aztecs were up to that number at the height
of their power), and if this was done (to a lesser degree)for centuries by
the Olmecs, Mayans and Aztecs then that would just have knocked the wall
down and we'd be partying with the Horrors right now. So no, I don't think
the Blood Magick done by the people of Central America was caused by the
Horrors, or maybe it did but took several hundred years to take hold. Sort
of like a new born baby being helpless, just feeding on the evil in the
world until it was ready to take it's first steps. This coul have been the
creation of the Sixth World and evrything in it. Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, etc
are all Horrors and Horror infected, and the Humans are the ones who must
fight against this. (This is sounding a bit Nephillim'ish so I'll stop).
Anyway back to the point no I don't think the sacrfices of the Central
American peoples were to the Horrors, but maybe just as the Earth's poles
seem to switch round every so many thousands of years then how about the
ebb and flow of magick. In ED and SR Blood Magick is not good (Very, very
bad, Ren), but at some stage it might have been good and warded off the
Horrors.
Cheers geezers.
Jennifer Burke
>
>Here are a pair of my theories.
>
> The Horrors have since ancient times been "tricking" the people of
>Central America to do blood magic to weaken the barriers between wherever
>they are and earth. Think about it... conjuring before the awakening using
>blood rites for fuel. The early Mayan (and later Aztec, and possibly Inca)
>shamans would see visions of spirits that told them to fight wars to
>capture more sacrifice victims. Related info can be found in
>Cybertechnology. Quetzacoatl is pretty similar to Ysrgrathe. The entire
>nation of Aztlan a puppet for the horrors? Chilling, neh?
>
> The horrors weakness lies in technology, probably matrix technology.
>They've been hinting this big time in Black Madonna, Aztlan, Virtual
>Realities 2, and other sources. The solution to a Horror invasion seems to
>have something to do with true AI and magic. Maybe "space magic", the way
>to manipulate astral energies outside of earth, has something to do with
>it.
>
> Okay, something to stir the pot.
>
> Oh, and my opinion about the much hated idea of the SR/ED crossover:
>If you don't like it, don't run it!!!
>
> End of rant. Any other ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Thomas Berman (Ny...@usa.pipeline.com)
Actually, the Horrors are the Enemy (Harlequins Back). Also, the
Wraith from Paranormal Animals Of Europe is an Enemy.
John
A Halliwell
: > The Horrors have since ancient times been "tricking" the people of
: >Central America to do blood magic to weaken the barriers between wherever
: >they are and earth. Think about it... conjuring before the awakening using
: >blood rites for fuel. The early Mayan (and later Aztec, and possibly Inca)
: >shamans would see visions of spirits that told them to fight wars to
: >capture more sacrifice victims. Related info can be found in
: >Cybertechnology. Quetzacoatl is pretty similar to Ysrgrathe. The entire
: >nation of Aztlan a puppet for the horrors? Chilling, neh?
: If the Great Ghost Dance made a tear in the fabric that separates "us" from
: the Horrors, then imagine the power released by the sacrifice of tens of
: thousnads of people a year! (The Aztecs were up to that number at the height
: of their power), and if this was done (to a lesser degree)for centuries by
: the Olmecs, Mayans and Aztecs then that would just have knocked the wall
: down and we'd be partying with the Horrors right now. So no, I don't think
You're forgetting one thing.
No magic!
During the Aztec/Mayan/Toltec periods, the world was at it's lowest ebb in
the magic cycle. They could have been tricked into it by a few horrors
trapped after the magic had left, but the effect would have been almost
undetectable. It was only when the magic began to return that the Great
Ghost Dance (and all that Blood Magic) could have any dramatic effect.
: the Blood Magick done by the people of Central America was caused by the
: Horrors, or maybe it did but took several hundred years to take hold. Sort
: of like a new born baby being helpless, just feeding on the evil in the
: world until it was ready to take it's first steps. This coul have been the
: creation of the Sixth World and evrything in it. Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, etc
: are all Horrors and Horror infected, and the Humans are the ones who must
: fight against this. (This is sounding a bit Nephillim'ish so I'll stop).
Are you *sure* you're not a Humanis Policlub member in disguise?
If the horrors ever do become widely known in the shadowrun universe, that's
just the type of thing the Humanis idiots would spout.
(Ideas ticking over in my head...... :) )
: Anyway back to the point no I don't think the sacrfices of the Central
: American peoples were to the Horrors, but maybe just as the Earth's poles
: seem to switch round every so many thousands of years then how about the
: ebb and flow of magick. In ED and SR Blood Magick is not good (Very, very
: bad, Ren), but at some stage it might have been good and warded off the
: Horrors.
It certainly did in Blood Wood, but I'd hardly call that effect "good".
Blood bonds are probably the only good that could come of it (in ED).
--
______________________________________________________________________________
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| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
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|Principal subjects in:-|to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy. |
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Mark L. Neidengard
Thomas Berman <ny...@usa.pipeline.com> wrote:
>Anyway, although I'm a newbie, I know a lot about SR, so I bring the
>dynamic but infamous topic: Horrors in SR.
Uh huh....
> The Horrors have since ancient times been "tricking" the people of
>Central America to do blood magic to weaken the barriers between wherever
>they are and earth. Think about it... conjuring before the awakening using
>blood rites for fuel. The early Mayan (and later Aztec, and possibly Inca)
>shamans would see visions of spirits that told them to fight wars to
>capture more sacrifice victims. Related info can be found in
>Cybertechnology. Quetzacoatl is pretty similar to Ysrgrathe. The entire
>nation of Aztlan a puppet for the horrors? Chilling, neh?
Chilling? More like boring, in my opinion. Horrendous Plot to Destroy
Humanity! Only the Immortal Elves Can Stemming the Tide!! Film at Eleven.
While I don't have a problem with some sort of enveiglements on a moderate
scale, I have a problem with the Ravening Hordes from Beyond(tm) playing so
pivotal a role in the world. But I've stated this before.
> The horrors weakness lies in technology, probably matrix technology.
>They've been hinting this big time in Black Madonna, Aztlan, Virtual
>Realities 2, and other sources. The solution to a Horror invasion seems to
>have something to do with true AI and magic. Maybe "space magic", the way
>to manipulate astral energies outside of earth, has something to do with
>it.
Why bother inventing "Space Magic". For starters, there _is_ no Astral Space
beyond the biosphere, as far as I understand FASA's ideas on the subject (a
stance which I heartily agree with). Hence no opportunity for such space magic
to even exist. What it will actually take to defeat the Horrors is advances in
good-old fasioned mundane weaponry. An rotary autocannon, with some sort of
nifty ammo, will lay waste to just about any "current" threat in Shadowrun
(how many things have more than 40 points of Barrier Rating/Vehicle Armor?)
Keep pushing the tech level and you can start shooting graviton ammo at the
nasties, a la Silent Mobius.
If, as some have hinted, the Horrors aren't due until 3000 years hence, when
they arrive they'll discover one of three things:
1) humanity has already destroyed itself, no thanks to them
2) humans have spread far into space and probably abandoned the pathetic little
dustball called Earth
3) every little old Grandma walking downt he street has a portable quantum
singularity weapon in her purse.
Oh well, so much for the Horrors. What good were they supposed to be again?
Oh well, never mind.
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Operator/Jack-of-all-Trades, CACR
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
On 20 Apr 1996, Mark L. Neidengard wrote:
> In article <4l70it$l...@news1.h1.usa.pipeline.com>,
> Thomas Berman <ny...@usa.pipeline.com> wrote:
>
> Why bother inventing "Space Magic". For starters, there _is_ no Astral Space
> beyond the biosphere, as far as I understand FASA's ideas on the subject (a
> stance which I heartily agree with). Hence no opportunity for such space magic
> to even exist. What it will actually take to defeat the Horrors is advances in
> good-old fasioned mundane weaponry. An rotary autocannon, with some sort of
> nifty ammo, will lay waste to just about any "current" threat in Shadowrun
> (how many things have more than 40 points of Barrier Rating/Vehicle Armor?)
> Keep pushing the tech level and you can start shooting graviton ammo at the
> nasties, a la Silent Mobius.
>
One small nitpick regarding barriers... bullet penetration of barriers is
figured pre-full-auto modifiers.
|\ /\ |\ | |\
|/ \/ | \ |\ | \
|\ /\ | |/ \ |
|/ / \ | | \|
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bolthy
"Remember: Heaven is Blue. Tomorrow, the world."
-Head of the Blue Meanies
Ben F. Rasmussen
: One small nitpick regarding barriers... bullet penetration of barriers is
: figured pre-full-auto modifiers.
Another small nitpick on a nitpick, when a barrier is shot more then
likely if the bullet is of any decency the barrier will be reduced by
one. ie if you shoot a wall 400 times there will be very little wall
left. Fasa is right, a bullet punches a very small hole, but enough small
holes makes a nice big hole, ask any termite.
A Halliwell
Remembering of course the fact that the barrier regenerates on each of the
casting mages actions.....
Paul Jonathan Adam
> Chilling? More like boring, in my opinion. Horrendous Plot to Destroy
> Humanity! Only the Immortal Elves Can Stemming the Tide!! Film at Eleven.
> While I don't have a problem with some sort of enveiglements on a moderate
> scale, I have a problem with the Ravening Hordes from Beyond(tm) playing so
> pivotal a role in the world. But I've stated this before.
I run a Shadowrun/Call of Cthulhu crossover. But at the level we run it,
it could all simply be warped magicians and a couple of extra metaraces.
Or it could be the Horrors finding a way through. Or it could be exactly
as Lovecraft wrote. Why nail it down? We just like the CoC adventures, and
our SR characters, and use one in the other.
What I like about SR is the openness of it. You can play a corporate security
team defending BigCo Inc. against the evil terrorists and shadowrunners. You
can run a heroic fighter for truth and justice, battling the corrupt megacorps.
You can play a whacked-out drug dealer in the middle of a Barrens turf war.
I don't like the idea that all of this is to be subjugated to fighting off
mystical Beings From Beyond. Fortunately for me, it seems FASA are moving
away from immortal Elves versus Horrors.
> What it will actually take to defeat the Horrors is advances in
> good-old fasioned mundane weaponry. An rotary autocannon, with some sort of
> nifty ammo, will lay waste to just about any "current" threat in Shadowrun
> (how many things have more than 40 points of Barrier Rating/Vehicle Armor?
> If, as some have hinted, the Horrors aren't due until 3000 years hence, when
> they arrive they'll discover one of three things:
>
>1) humanity has already destroyed itself, no thanks to them
>2) humans have spread far into space and probably abandoned the pathetic little
> dustball called Earth
>3) every little old Grandma walking downt he street has a portable quantum
> singularity weapon in her purse.
You forgot (4): the Horrors arrive and have the shit kicked out of them
by 100-ton walking combat BattleMechs :)
--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude
towards him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem.
For better or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." R. A. Lafferty
Paul J. Adam pa...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk
ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD
Mark L. Neidengard <mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>Why bother inventing "Space Magic". For starters, there _is_ no Astral Space
>beyond the biosphere, as far as I understand FASA's ideas on the subject (a
>stance which I heartily agree with). Hence no opportunity for such space magic
>to even exist. What it will actually take to defeat the Horrors is advances in
>good-old fasioned mundane weaponry. An rotary autocannon, with some sort of
>nifty ammo, will lay waste to just about any "current" threat in Shadowrun
>(how many things have more than 40 points of Barrier Rating/Vehicle Armor?)
>Keep pushing the tech level and you can start shooting graviton ammo at the
>nasties, a la Silent Mobius.
Question, Mark: why don't you like the idea of Magic in Space? Is it
just because FASA doesn't do much with space, or because mana is created
by life(which supposedly doesn't exist in space, depending entirely how
you define life, of course), or what? I'm not going to try to convince
you that your ideas about space magic are wrong because we can throw FASA
book quotes around all day and neither of us will convince the other(yes,
I have a very detailed set of rules for magic in space, and have totally
altered the history of space that the Corporate Shadowfiles presents),
but I'm curious.
But on another issue, there's already been a novel where a dragon had a
barrier spell that blocked lasers(Night's Pawn, I believe), so what's to
stop a spell called Graviton Barrier?
>2) humans have spread far into space and probably abandoned the pathetic little
> dustball called Earth
Nah, too hard unless a comet comes along or something. Sure, they won't
ALL be here.
>3) every little old Grandma walking downt he street has a portable quantum
> singularity weapon in her purse.
Ohhh, I'd hate to see Grandma's face when the lovely Awakenings spell
Reflect Damage bounces that lovely singularity back at her. Oops.... :)
>Oh well, so much for the Horrors. What good were they supposed to be again?
>Oh well, never mind.
Magic is a little more adaptable than that, methinks.
Brian
Bradley Smith
ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <ang...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>Question, Mark: why don't you like the idea of Magic in Space? Is it
>just because FASA doesn't do much with space, or because mana is created
>by life(which supposedly doesn't exist in space, depending entirely how
>you define life, of course), or what? I'm not going to try to convince
>you that your ideas about space magic are wrong because we can throw FASA
>book quotes around all day and neither of us will convince the other(yes,
>I have a very detailed set of rules for magic in space, and have totally
>altered the history of space that the Corporate Shadowfiles presents),
>but I'm curious.
Well, going by the book definition, astral space (and therefore
magic) extends to somewhere around the edge of the atmosphere. If you go
outside the atmosphere, and try to do magic, you go nutso or die. End of
story, with several FASA quotes to that effect (One was in Neo-A's Guide
to Real Life).
Of course, you're free to play however you can in your game; I
mean, you probably live too far away for me to go into your house and
pistol-whip you until you stop. :)
However, that's a rather...large alteration of the rules as they
are meant to be, which is why I would guess that Mark disagrees with
you. (And why I do, too).
While we're on the subject, wasn't there a Ka-Ge article about
space magic a long time ago? Like two-three years? I vaguely remember
seeing one in a group member's issue.
Brad
--
************************************************************************
*The Few....The Proud....The Puppybrothers! Bradley N. Smith *
* Look for a recruiter near you! har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu *
************************************************************************
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
On 21 Apr 1996, Ben F. Rasmussen wrote:
> Dr. Bolthy von Schotz (bol...@io.com) wrote:
> : One small nitpick regarding barriers... bullet penetration of barriers is
> : figured pre-full-auto modifiers.
>
> Another small nitpick on a nitpick, when a barrier is shot more then
> likely if the bullet is of any decency the barrier will be reduced by
> one. ie if you shoot a wall 400 times there will be very little wall
> left. Fasa is right, a bullet punches a very small hole, but enough small
> holes makes a nice big hole, ask any termite.
>
>
I never doubted that. But it wouldn't need to be rating 40 to stop full
auto-fire. =)
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
On 21 Apr 1996, A Halliwell wrote:
> Ben F. Rasmussen (gre...@woodtech.com) wrote:
> : Dr. Bolthy von Schotz (bol...@io.com) wrote:
> : : One small nitpick regarding barriers... bullet penetration of barriers is
> : : figured pre-full-auto modifiers.
> :
> : Another small nitpick on a nitpick, when a barrier is shot more then
> : likely if the bullet is of any decency the barrier will be reduced by
> : one. ie if you shoot a wall 400 times there will be very little wall
> : left. Fasa is right, a bullet punches a very small hole, but enough small
> : holes makes a nice big hole, ask any termite.
>
> Remembering of course the fact that the barrier regenerates on each of the
> casting mages actions.....
>
Cool notion... except John Q. Streetsammie with his super wired reflexes
will probably get a lot more actions before the mage gets his (barring of
course the possibility that the mage has quickened/anchored a reflex
enhancing spell on himself). =)
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
On 19 Apr 1996, Jennifer Burke wrote:
> ny...@usa.pipeline.com(Thomas Berman) wrote:
>
>
> >
>
> Actually, the Horrors are the Enemy (Harlequins Back). Also, the
> Wraith from Paranormal Animals Of Europe is an Enemy.
Add "Nomads" from Paranormals of North America to the ranks of the "Enemy".
ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD
Bradley Smith <har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
> Well, going by the book definition, astral space (and therefore
>magic) extends to somewhere around the edge of the atmosphere. If you go
>outside the atmosphere, and try to do magic, you go nutso or die. End of
>story, with several FASA quotes to that effect (One was in Neo-A's Guide
>to Real Life).
Ahh, but the NAGRL also has a quote about someone maybe seeing something
up there too, which means, to me, that there remains some question about
the issue. Sure, you can blow it off as someone who was nuts, but as a
GM, you get the chance to choose which of the shadowquotes you want to be
true. And there's also the short story where a magician talks about
"(dancing) with hearts far darker than yours". I wish I could remember
which product flier it was in, though. Sure, the mage could have been
talking about Horrors, but I took it to mean spirits from space.
I happily admit that all the SF I read has biased me toward the
possibility of life in space(and I do mean in space, ie vacuum a la
Gregory Benford's pinwheel trees from Tides of Light). And there are
alternate reasons for people dying or going insane if they try to go out
of the atmosphere. Like astral beings that suck life out of
inexperienced and unprepared magicians or the sheer alienness and
barrenness of the environment. I mean, Astral is usually light as day
even at night because life keeps Astral lit. What does having Astral go
gradually black do to the brain if you're unprepared for it? It would be
like the planet from Asimov's Nightfall; ie, you'd probably go insane.
> Of course, you're free to play however you can in your game; I
>mean, you probably live too far away for me to go into your house and
>pistol-whip you until you stop. :)
> However, that's a rather...large alteration of the rules as they
>are meant to be, which is why I would guess that Mark disagrees with
>you. (And why I do, too).
I don't agree, because there has been no solid rule on it. Sure, it's a
definate guideline that most people follow, but I've searched my Grimoire
and the rulebook and Awakenings and most of the rest too and not found
anything solid. Sure, there's stuff that says that Astral is parallel
and that life keeps it lit and all that, but nothing that I've found that
says that Astral doesn't exist, only shadowcomments that contradict each
other.
Of course, if I saw a true rule, set in stone, I'd break the stone, but
I'd also stop arguing about it and accept that it is a major rule change.
> While we're on the subject, wasn't there a Ka-Ge article about
>space magic a long time ago? Like two-three years? I vaguely remember
>seeing one in a group member's issue.
Beats me. I got KaGe for a while, but let my subscription slip since I
thought the quality was garbage. Anyone else see it? I'd be interested
in reading that article.
Brian
Dave Davenport
>Dave wrote:
>: If the Great Ghost Dance made a tear in the fabric that separates "us" from
>: the Horrors, then imagine the power released by the sacrifice of tens of
>: thousnads of people a year! (The Aztecs were up to that number at the height
>: of their power), and if this was done (to a lesser degree)for centuries by
>: the Olmecs, Mayans and Aztecs then that would just have knocked the wall
>: down and we'd be partying with the Horrors right now. So no, I don't think
>
>You're forgetting one thing.
>No magic!
>During the Aztec/Mayan/Toltec periods, the world was at it's lowest ebb in
>the magic cycle. They could have been tricked into it by a few horrors
>trapped after the magic had left, but the effect would have been almost
>undetectable. It was only when the magic began to return that the Great
>Ghost Dance (and all that Blood Magic) could have any dramatic effect.
I've got a question--big Blood Magic rituals can cause temporary "mana spikes"
to occur and therefore allow magical feats that would not normally be
possible with the current mana level. If the horrors tricked the Mesoamerican
peoples to perform really big sacrifice rituals, could they have spiked the
mana level enough to allow a ritual magic spell or two to be cast? Maybe a
little horror brought over in ancient times and waiting for its big brothers
to show up? Or a horror construct or two?
--Rasputin
David Schreiber
ny...@usa.pipeline.com(Thomas Berman) wrote:
> The horrors weakness lies in technology, probably matrix technology.
>They've been hinting this big time in Black Madonna, Aztlan, Virtual
>Realities 2, and other sources. The solution to a Horror invasion seems to
>have something to do with true AI and magic. Maybe "space magic", the way
>to manipulate astral energies outside of earth, has something to do with
>it.
Technology will help people, but I don't think its neccesarly because
of any interaction between tech and magic. I have seen a Sami with a high
willpower and a gyromounted heavy machine gun take on an insect queen and
come out on top (just).
How do you think an Horror will stand up to a geneticaly engineered
warrior with willpower 9, in powered armour with a 20mm guass weapon?
(Answer: sensible horrors don't fight toe to toe).
Horrors will have to face people with better equipment, better communication
and vastly superior defenses (kaers would be much easier to build).
Justin Fang
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz <bol...@io.com> wrote:
>On 21 Apr 1996, Ben F. Rasmussen wrote:
>> Dr. Bolthy von Schotz (bol...@io.com) wrote:
>> : One small nitpick regarding barriers... bullet penetration of barriers is
>> : figured pre-full-auto modifiers.
>> Another small nitpick on a nitpick, when a barrier is shot more then
>> likely if the bullet is of any decency the barrier will be reduced by
>> one. ie if you shoot a wall 400 times there will be very little wall
>> left. Fasa is right, a bullet punches a very small hole, but enough small
>> holes makes a nice big hole, ask any termite.
>auto-fire. =)
Actually, if you're talking about full auto-fire from a rotary assault
cannon (which is what Mark was talking about), it would need to be above 40.
A rotary assualt cannon will probably be loaded with armor-piercing (halves
barrier rating for penetration), explosive (halves rating for barrier
degredation), or armor-piercing-explosive ammo (halves rating for both
penetration and degredation.) (Mark? Sounds like your cue.)
--
Justin Fang (jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu)
This space intentionally left blank.
Wolfgang Weisselberg
> If, as some have hinted, the Horrors aren't due until 3000 years hence, when
> they arrive they'll discover one of three things:
> 1) humanity has already destroyed itself, no thanks to them
> 2) humans have spread far into space and probably abandoned the pathetic little
> dustball called Earth
> 3) every little old Grandma walking downt he street has a portable quantum
> singularity weapon in her purse.
4) Ever thought about how much Cyberware one could put in 12 points of
essence (a Dragon) and how much bodyware they can support? With
Deltaware? With Cybermancy? Pitty the horrors, now!
-Wolfgang
--
"finger wei...@moon.ph-cip.uni-koeln.de" for my PGP-Key, or mail me.
Verbietet Autos, Geiselgangster koennten damit fluechten!
Outlaw cars, kidnappers might use them to escape!
Mark L. Neidengard
>>
>> Why bother inventing "Space Magic". For starters, there _is_ no Astral Space
>> beyond the biosphere, as far as I understand FASA's ideas on the subject (a
>> stance which I heartily agree with). Hence no opportunity for such space magic
>> to even exist. What it will actually take to defeat the Horrors is advances in
>> good-old fasioned mundane weaponry. An rotary autocannon, with some sort of
>> nifty ammo, will lay waste to just about any "current" threat in Shadowrun
>> (how many things have more than 40 points of Barrier Rating/Vehicle Armor?)
>> Keep pushing the tech level and you can start shooting graviton ammo at the
>> nasties, a la Silent Mobius.
>
>figured pre-full-auto modifiers.
You'll notice I cited 40 points of Barrier Rating. The rotary autocannon has
a base round Power of 20, letting an armor-piercing (AP, APDS, etc) round
fired from it penetrate anything with up 39 points of Barrier Rating. Or,
if it's shooting explosive rounds of some sort, it'll begin to degrade any
barrier with rating 40 or less. The burst modifiers are of course figured
in _after_ one figures out if degredation/penetration happened.
Jason Earl
"
In article <Big Gun> Justin Fang wrote:
>A rotary assualt cannon will probably be loaded with armor-piercing
> (halves
>barrier rating for penetration), explosive (halves rating for barrier
>degredation), or armor-piercing-explosive ammo (halves rating for both
>penetration and degredation.) (Mark? Sounds like your cue.)
I am not very knowledgeable about firearms (especially something like a
rotary assualt cannon), but is there such a thing as armor-piercing-explosive
ammo. I always thought that it had to be one or the other. Does SRII have
rules on such a thing?
BTW Justin, if your runners come up against rotary assault cannons with armor
piercing rounds on a regular basis, then I am glad that I don't play in your
world (getting targetted by that sort of monster could really ruin your day.
Jason Earl
Freelance Cyberwiz
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Rook
->>
->> Oh, and my opinion about the much hated idea of the SR/ED
->> crossover: If you don't like it, don't run it!!!
->>
->> End of rant. Any other ideas?
->>
->> Thanks,
->>
->> Thomas Berman (Ny...@usa.pipeline.com)
->
->
->Actually, the Horrors are the Enemy (Harlequins Back). Also, the
->Wraith from Paranormal Animals Of Europe is an Enemy.
->
-> John
->
And lets not forget the Nomad..... nasty fragger.
@>=->---
Rook
o=<====-
Rook
->>: If the Great Ghost Dance made a tear in the fabric that separates
->>: "us" from the Horrors, then imagine the power released by the
->>: sacrifice of tens of thousnads of people a year! (The Aztecs were
->>: up to that number at the height of their power), and if this was
->>: done (to a lesser degree)for centuries by the Olmecs, Mayans and
->>: Aztecs then that would just have knocked the wall down and we'd
->>: be partying with the Horrors right now. So no, I don't think
->>
->>You're forgetting one thing.
->>No magic!
->>During the Aztec/Mayan/Toltec periods, the world was at it's lowest
->>ebb in the magic cycle. They could have been tricked into it by a
->>few horrors trapped after the magic had left, but the effect would
->>have been almost undetectable. It was only when the magic began to
->>return that the Great Ghost Dance (and all that Blood Magic) could
->>have any dramatic effect.
->
->I've got a question--big Blood Magic rituals can cause temporary
->"mana spikes" to occur and therefore allow magical feats that would
->not normally be possible with the current mana level. If the
->horrors tricked the Mesoamerican peoples to perform really big
->sacrifice rituals, could they have spiked the mana level enough to
->allow a ritual magic spell or two to be cast? Maybe a little horror
->brought over in ancient times and waiting for its big brothers to
->show up? Or a horror construct or two?
->
->--Rasputin
I'd say no, based on something from the novel _Worlds_Without_
_End_. In that novel, Wovoka taught the Native Americans the the
Great Ghost Dance in the 1800's to use against the soldiers. It
didn't work, the ritual failled to do anything and the ghost dancers
were slaughtered at Wounded Knee. This is the same Wovoka who taught
Daniel Coleman the Ghost Dance that was used against the US Government
in 2011. I think at a certain point in the mana cycle, it's so low
that no matter how powerful the ritual there just isn't enough mana
for anything to happen. That's my spin on things anyway.
Craig
> I don't like the idea that all of this is to be subjugated to fighting off
> mystical Beings From Beyond. Fortunately for me, it seems FASA are moving
> away from immortal Elves versus Horrors.
Wish I could get that impression.It seemed to me that FASA were just
trying to make me get Earthdawn to see what it's all about.I don't intend to.
Hooray for low magic,non-earthshaking campaigns.
Craig.
Mark L. Neidengard
ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <ang...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>Mark L. Neidengard <mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
>>Why bother inventing "Space Magic". For starters, there _is_ no Astral Space
>>beyond the biosphere, as far as I understand FASA's ideas on the subject (a
>>stance which I heartily agree with). Hence no opportunity for such space magic
>>to even exist. What it will actually take to defeat the Horrors is advances in
>>good-old fasioned mundane weaponry. An rotary autocannon, with some sort of
>>nifty ammo, will lay waste to just about any "current" threat in Shadowrun
>>(how many things have more than 40 points of Barrier Rating/Vehicle Armor?)
>>Keep pushing the tech level and you can start shooting graviton ammo at the
>>nasties, a la Silent Mobius.
>
>just because FASA doesn't do much with space, or because mana is created
>by life(which supposedly doesn't exist in space, depending entirely how
>you define life, of course), or what? I'm not going to try to convince
>you that your ideas about space magic are wrong because we can throw FASA
>book quotes around all day and neither of us will convince the other(yes,
>I have a very detailed set of rules for magic in space, and have totally
>altered the history of space that the Corporate Shadowfiles presents),
>but I'm curious.
It's the life-generating-mana thing, I guess. The gaming system seems to make
a big deal about how mana is channeled and how it affects living things, and
it looks to me like the assumption that mana is "engendered" by living things
makes sense. Certainly, this stance is not inconsistent with all the babble
about magic not "working" in space that goes on in canon, and quite honestly
there are so many other more pressing canonical problems that I'm willing to
relent on that one. =)
Now, I don't have any problem with magic in space _per_se_, but I'm just as
happy to follow what looks like the party line where Shadowrun touches upon
the issue.
>But on another issue, there's already been a novel where a dragon had a
>barrier spell that blocked lasers(Night's Pawn, I believe), so what's to
>stop a spell called Graviton Barrier?
Stopping a laser is relatively easy in terms of the physical changes required.
It amounts to dissipating a "relatively" small amount of photons, or perhaps
rerouting them (as per Improved Invisibility). Avoiding a graviton bomb would
require local resistence to massive warping of space-time, plus _very_ strong
broad-band radiation resistance, and immunity to a host of other effects. I
suppose it's not _impossible_, but to be consistent such a spell would have a
finite "Barrier Rating" against all those effects. And quantum singularities
probably have a _very_ nontrivial power.
Also, I really don't care what FASA put in its novels too much; I think it's
fairly clear that in "storytelling" one sometimes strays from the "restrictive"
canon in order to make a point. =)
>>2) humans have spread far into space and probably abandoned the pathetic
>>little dustball called Earth
>
>Nah, too hard unless a comet comes along or something. Sure, they won't
>ALL be here.
Check out C.J. Cherryh's universe. Earth is, at the very least, far from the
most important planet any more. =) And those books aren't even set "that" far
into the future. =)
>>3) every little old Grandma walking downt he street has a portable quantum
>> singularity weapon in her purse.
>
>Ohhh, I'd hate to see Grandma's face when the lovely Awakenings spell
>Reflect Damage bounces that lovely singularity back at her. Oops.... :)
You must be talking about Redirect. =) The wording is: "The redirect spell
sends the energy of an incoming physical or melee attack back against the
attacker in the form of a powerful mental shock." Unfortunately, firearms,
missiles, and explosions of all sorts are not physical or melee attacks by
this reckoning, meaning (and rightfully so for sanity and game-balanace) that
the spell would be useless. =)
>>Oh well, so much for the Horrors. What good were they supposed to be again?
>>Oh well, never mind.
>
>Magic is a little more adaptable than that, methinks.
The Horrors are magic, is true. However, technology is also adaptable. And
far easier to use to cause massive amounts of havoc. =)
Justin Fang
>In article <Big Gun> Justin Fang wrote:
>>A rotary assualt cannon will probably be loaded with armor-piercing (halves
>>barrier rating for penetration), explosive (halves rating for barrier
>>degredation), or armor-piercing-explosive ammo (halves rating for both
>>penetration and degredation.) (Mark? Sounds like your cue.)
>I am not very knowledgeable about firearms (especially something like a
>rotary assualt cannon), but is there such a thing as armor-piercing-explosive
>ammo. I always thought that it had to be one or the other. Does SRII have
>rules on such a thing?
SRII has no particular rules about armor-piercing-explosive ammo that I know
of, but it's a logical extrapolation for things like rotary assault cannons
and tank guns and other really heavy vehicle weapons.
>BTW Justin, if your runners come up against rotary assault cannons with armor
>piercing rounds on a regular basis, then I am glad that I don't play in your
>world (getting targetted by that sort of monster could really ruin your day.
Actually, in the campaigns I play in, even normal assault cannons are purely
a theoretical possibility, never mind rotary ones.
>Jason Earl
>Freelance Cyberwiz
Justin Fang
Mark L. Neidengard <mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In article <4le9et$6...@peabody.colorado.edu>,
>ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <ang...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>>In article <4lbf5c$g...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>>Mark L. Neidengard <mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>>3) every little old Grandma walking downt he street has a portable quantum
>>> singularity weapon in her purse.
>>>Oh well, so much for the Horrors. What good were they supposed to be again?
>>>Oh well, never mind.
>>Magic is a little more adaptable than that, methinks.
>The Horrors are magic, is true. However, technology is also adaptable. And
>far easier to use to cause massive amounts of havoc. =)
Besides quantum singularities, there's lasers, particle beams, railguns,
antimatter-tipped missiles and maybe even stranger stuff. All potentially
controlled by battle computers with rather high initiatives. Barrier spells?
Well, sure, but they have this tendency to degrade rapidly with repeated
attacks at high power.
And in the realm of magic, by the time the bulk of the Horrors are supposed
to show up the workings of the mana gene will most likely be completely
understood. Which means that probably everyone on Earth will be fully
magically active: spellcasting, conjuring, and physical adept abilities.
They'll probably be able to engineer some of the niftier critter powers into
people, too: wouldn't you like to have Regeneration and Immunity to Age? With
extended lifespans, racking up a couple of initiate grades isn't too much of
a problem. And of course they'll have that nifty drainless spellcasting, and
a selection of omega-grade cyber/bioware.
So a Horror appears, gets hit by a couple dozen Obliterate Horror spells,
goes away. What was the problem again?
This is all assuming, of course, that humanity hasn't evolved into a mass
mind or moved into a virtual reality or something like that.
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Dave Davenport wrote:
> In article <4lb7g7$7...@gerry.cc.keele.ac.uk>, u5...@cc.keele.ac.uk (A Halliwell) wrote:
> >Dave wrote:
>
> >: If the Great Ghost Dance made a tear in the fabric that separates "us" from
> >: the Horrors, then imagine the power released by the sacrifice of tens of
> >: thousnads of people a year! (The Aztecs were up to that number at the height
> >: of their power), and if this was done (to a lesser degree)for centuries by
> >: the Olmecs, Mayans and Aztecs then that would just have knocked the wall
> >: down and we'd be partying with the Horrors right now. So no, I don't think
> >
> >You're forgetting one thing.
> >No magic!
> >During the Aztec/Mayan/Toltec periods, the world was at it's lowest ebb in
> >the magic cycle. They could have been tricked into it by a few horrors
> >trapped after the magic had left, but the effect would have been almost
> >undetectable. It was only when the magic began to return that the Great
> >Ghost Dance (and all that Blood Magic) could have any dramatic effect.
>
> I've got a question--big Blood Magic rituals can cause temporary "mana spikes"
> to occur and therefore allow magical feats that would not normally be
> possible with the current mana level. If the horrors tricked the Mesoamerican
> peoples to perform really big sacrifice rituals, could they have spiked the
> mana level enough to allow a ritual magic spell or two to be cast? Maybe a
> little horror brought over in ancient times and waiting for its big brothers
> to show up? Or a horror construct or two?
>
heh... been forcing myself to read "Worlds Without End"...found some
interesting similarities to what you said...
According to WWW, somewhere between the book and Harlequin's Back, Col.
Quinn had a little run in with some Horrors that had been gated in by
some blood magic being performed over in Maui...
Also... as for magic in low-mana periods... Magic _did_ function function
during the low mana cycle... I think this even appears in one of the
sourcebooks... Oddly enough, I think it was Shadowtech of all books, when
they were discussing the one-time need for drugs in order to enhance
magical ability... the presence of 5th World magic appears in WWW also...
basically, magic worked... it definitely didn't work well... Even
Harlequin would have gotten a nosebleed if he tried to sling major
mojo... but really simple illusions and the like were possible... though
not many knew how to do them.
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
On 23 Apr 1996, Justin Fang wrote:
> In article <Pine.BSI.3.91.960422...@bermuda.io.com>,
> Dr. Bolthy von Schotz <bol...@io.com> wrote:
> >On 21 Apr 1996, Ben F. Rasmussen wrote:
> >> Dr. Bolthy von Schotz (bol...@io.com) wrote:
> >> : One small nitpick regarding barriers... bullet penetration of barriers is
> >> : figured pre-full-auto modifiers.
> >> Another small nitpick on a nitpick, when a barrier is shot more then
> >> likely if the bullet is of any decency the barrier will be reduced by
> >> one. ie if you shoot a wall 400 times there will be very little wall
> >> left. Fasa is right, a bullet punches a very small hole, but enough small
> >> holes makes a nice big hole, ask any termite.
> >I never doubted that. But it wouldn't need to be rating 40 to stop full
> >auto-fire. =)
>
> Actually, if you're talking about full auto-fire from a rotary assault
> cannon (which is what Mark was talking about), it would need to be above 40.
> A rotary assualt cannon will probably be loaded with armor-piercing (halves
> barrier rating for penetration), explosive (halves rating for barrier
> degredation), or armor-piercing-explosive ammo (halves rating for both
> penetration and degredation.) (Mark? Sounds like your cue.)
Well, in that case... Guess I'd be wrong. Whoops. =)
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, David Schreiber wrote:
> In article <4l70it$l...@news1.h1.usa.pipeline.com>,
"Better prepared, better trained, better... better!"
All I can say is... Verjigorm? Corruptor of DRAGONS?! You can have your
genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
Pluto. Buh-bye.
Bradley Smith
Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>SRII has no particular rules about armor-piercing-explosive ammo that I know
>of, but it's a logical extrapolation for things like rotary assault cannons
>and tank guns and other really heavy vehicle weapons.
APX (Armor-Piercing Explosive) is usually shot by BIG guns, like
the 406mm cannon on the Iowa-class battleships. It is made so it can go
through armor and _then_ explode on the other side, doing catastrophic
damage (and ruining the other guy's day).
While conceivably useful...somehow...for small fry, these remain
primarily useful for BB-killing (i.e. hunting for battleships),
bunker-busting, and runway-cratering, when something has a high DR/Armor
rating.
Autocannon typically fire things like APDU (like the standard
round, but made out of depleted uranium), HE, HESH (HE, but explodes in
such a way that if the blast doesn't penetrate armor, it'll knock bits
and pieces off the armor (spalling), which carom around inside the
target, damaging its innards (including crew)), and other fun rounds.
Look in GURPS Vehicles for more lovely information about this.
>Actually, in the campaigns I play in, even normal assault cannons are purely
>a theoretical possibility, never mind rotary ones.
Aww... Your campaigns must be no fun. ;-)
JUERGEN HUBERT
appear, and I just wanted to add my DM 0.02 ...
First off, this isn't supposed to be my personal prophecy about when the Horrors
will appear and devour the Earth and such, but rather some nasty plot ideas
about using the Horrors in SR, so if you don't want to use the Horrors in your
game, feel free to ignore the following. You may also feel free to go away and
flame someone else... ;-)
According to the adventure Harlekin's Back (p. 23) a very few Horrors already
exist in the SR world. By the end of the novel Worlds Without End, that number
seems to have increased somewhat. We also know that the Horrors need a high
level of magic to appear on earth, which I tend to equate with a high background
count, Furthermore, I think that it would help somewhat if these sites were
somehow polluted or corrupted (the site of the Great Ghost Dance would IMHO
count, because of the excessive amount of Blood Magic during the Dance). And
finally the Horrors didn't come all at once in Earthdawn either; at first, only
the weak ones appeared (rather like the wraiths described in Paranormal Animals
of Europe), who probably don't need all that much mana to appear. So if we're
searching for likely places where Horrors could appear, how about a look at...
Germany?
This makes sense. For some reason, Germany is practically riddled with sites
which have a high Background Count. And the most powerful of these aren't
peaceful natural settings but toxic hellholes. So let's have a look at some of
these sites. (BTW, I'm quoting from the German edition of the Germany
sourcebook, so I don't know if they're in the English edition or not)
- Parts of the North Sea cost. These sites grant 2 bonus dice for cunjuring
toxic sea spirits and have a Backgroud count of 5 or higher (!) due to extreme
pollution and mass deaths after fllods. And maybe that demonic rider isn't
"merely" a toxic spirit...
- The river Emscher. +1 bonus die for conjuring toxic river spirits, again due
excessive pollution.
- Noerdlinger Ries. Background Count of 4. OK, maybe this site isn't polluted
like the others, but the fire and earth elementals summoned here, as well
as local spirits of nature behave very strange, which might be due to some
corrupting influence...
- All those former concentration camps all over the place. They aren't mentioned
directly in the book, but they probably all have a Background of 5 or so.
Besides serving as a prime breeding ground for extremely nasty spirits of man,
there might be other dangers. We know that the Nazis used their prisoners for
medical and chemical experiments, and who knows what they have been up to else?
(For those really paranoid among you, remember that, according to the novel
Worlds Without End, p.64, Alachia was seemingly involved with the Third Reich
on some level. Perhaps she conducted her own magical research on the prisoners
they were "only human" after all...), and perhaps she isn't as oppsed to the
Horrors as she claimed...)
- The SOX. In the sourcebook it says that, due to extreme radiation and the
death of more than 37,000 people, astral space has such heavy disturbances that
magic almost never works. I'd equate that with an extremely high Background
Count of, say, 7 to 10. The way the SOX is described, it reminds me strongly of
the site of the Cermak Blast (which would be another likely entry point... but
I disgress...)(see Bug City p.145 for descriptions of Backgroud Counts of 6+)
but compared to the mere 200 meter radius around the Cermak Blast that has a
Backgroung Count of 6+, the SOX is HUGE...
All in all, I'd say that when the invasion of the Horrors starts in earnest (and
I hope that that will take at least anothe century), Germany could become a
prime battleground...
BTW, has anybody else noticed that the thing that appeared in that Tir nan Og magical storm in the novel Nosferatu had an awful similarity with a
despairthought?
A final question to all other Germans out there: Does anybody know something
specific about the new Germany sourcebook (I believe it's called "Deutschland
in den Schatten II") that is supposed to come out later this year?
--
Juergen Hubert
HUB...@gawein.physik.uni-erlangen.de
"The Emperor had all the qualifications for a corpse, exept, as it were, the
most vital one."
--Terry Pratchett
Mark L. Neidengard
Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>Actually, if you're talking about full auto-fire from a rotary assault
>cannon (which is what Mark was talking about), it would need to be above 40.
>A rotary assualt cannon will probably be loaded with armor-piercing (halves
>barrier rating for penetration), explosive (halves rating for barrier
>degredation), or armor-piercing-explosive ammo (halves rating for both
>penetration and degredation.) (Mark? Sounds like your cue.)
Right. What follows is the Bullets and Barriers rules the circle of folks
I run with has adopted. The Barrier section is pretty much a straight
clarification of the horribly-obfuscated Barrier rules FASA spews out in the
SRII. The standard ammo types work just like they "ought" by FASA's
reckoning; the new ammo types are my own. =)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ammo Name Pow. Mod. Damage Code Modification
--------- --------- ------------------------
Normal none -1 lev. for Vehicle
Flechette none -1 lev. for Vehicle and Dermal armor,
goes against double-impact
Gel -2 -1 lev. for Vehicle, goes against Impact
Armor-Piercing none -1 lev., -1 additional for Vehicle
APDS none -1 lev. for Vehicle
Explosive +1 -1 lev. for Vehicle
"EX" Explosive +2 -1 lev. for Vehicle
Explosive AP none -1 lev., -1 additional for Vehicle
Explosive APDS none -1 lev. for Vehicle
EX Explosive AP +1 -1 lev., -1 additional for Vehicle
EX Explosive APDS +1 -1 lev. for Vehicle
HESH +1 -1 lev. for Vehicle, goes against Impact
EX-HESH +2 -1 lev. for Vehicle, goes against Impact
Barriers and Ammunition:
- Normal ammo goes against base Barrier Rating for both penetration and
degredation.
- Flechette goes against twice Barrier Rating for both penetration and
degradation.
- Gel goes against twice Barrier Rating for both penetration and degredation,
using its -2 Power penalty.
- Armor-piercing ammo (including APDS) halves Barrier Rating for
penetration, doubles it for degredation.
- Explosive ammo (including EX) halves Barrier Rating for degredation, doubles
it for penetration. Only apply explosive round Power bonus for degredation.
- Explosive, armor-piercing attempts to penetrate at half Barrier Rating, and
if successful does degredation against twice Barrier Rating. If
unsuccessful, degrade armor at half Barrier Rating. Only apply explosive
bonus (to degradation) if penetration unsuccessful.
- HESH behaves as explosive ammo of the appropriate type
Barrier penetration:
Shooting through a barrier requires base Round power to be higher than
Barrier Rating. Deduct Barrier Rating from modified Power for any attacks
that get through.
Barrier degredation:
If base round Power equals or exceeds Barrier Rating, remove one point of
Barrier Rating. For every increment of half the Barrier Rating that the
modified Power exceeds the Barrier Rating, remove one additional point of
Barrier Rating. Attacks which remove two or more points of Barrier Rating
at a time may open a gaping hole in the Barrier.
(Note: remember to halve/double Barrier Rating due to ammo type _before_
calculating penetration/degredation)
Thomas Berman
Earthdawnesque Apocalypse>, 'rasp...@ntr.net (Dave Davenport)' wrote:
>
>I've got a question--big Blood Magic rituals can cause temporary "mana
spikes"
>
>to occur and therefore allow magical feats that would not normally be
>possible with the current mana level. If the horrors tricked the
Mesoamerican
>
>peoples to perform really big sacrifice rituals, could they have spiked
the
>mana level enough to allow a ritual magic spell or two to be cast? Maybe
a
>little horror brought over in ancient times and waiting for its big
brothers
>to show up? Or a horror construct or two?
leaders
would have huge rituals involving self-bloodletting and lots of
hallucinogenics.
This was done to contact the serpent god. Guess what the serpent god would
say?
"Declare war on the other city states to collect more sacrifice victims."
Mesoamerica's karma hazing gets as thick as the smog in L.A. on a summer
day,
and it gets easier to contact the horrors. Y'know foeave? The blank spots
in
the astral? The spots with no mana? I think blood rituals and karma hazing
cause
them.
Another wild theory -- Aztechnology is peripherally controlled by a
horror. Check
out cybertechnology!!! It virtually points to the Azzies yelling "ultimate
evil!"
Tom
Dave Wagner
: I'd say no, based on something from the novel _Worlds_Without_
: Great Ghost Dance in the 1800's to use against the soldiers. It
: didn't work, the ritual failled to do anything and the ghost dancers
: were slaughtered at Wounded Knee. This is the same Wovoka who taught
: Daniel Coleman the Ghost Dance that was used against the US Government
: in 2011. I think at a certain point in the mana cycle, it's so low
: that no matter how powerful the ritual there just isn't enough mana
: for anything to happen. That's my spin on things anyway.
SOCIAL DANCING!! The ghost dance thing was invented by the soldiers to
explain their acitons.. Second, the Ghost Dance did work, but only in a
limited fashion... It enabled My people to speak with the ancestors and
have them speak back... This did not do whatthe Lakota wanted though, it
did not stop bullets...
I pray for 2011 to be right. Oh yeah, anyone else see that
2011-2012 is pretty major in A LOT of religions?
Nostradamus predicts something BIG arund tehre... Some big
CHristian saint says that the last Pope will be around then... The
pyramids measurements when equated give around then... The I-CHing's
equations give right around then and the Mayan sixth world is suppose to
start then... Clearly something is gonna hapen, and it's gonna be big...
Maybe not the return of Magic, but something big...
A Halliwell
: >You're forgetting one thing.
: >No magic!
: >During the Aztec/Mayan/Toltec periods, the world was at it's lowest ebb in
: >the magic cycle. They could have been tricked into it by a few horrors
: >trapped after the magic had left, but the effect would have been almost
: >undetectable. It was only when the magic began to return that the Great
: >Ghost Dance (and all that Blood Magic) could have any dramatic effect.
: to occur and therefore allow magical feats that would not normally be
: possible with the current mana level. If the horrors tricked the Mesoamerican
: peoples to perform really big sacrifice rituals, could they have spiked the
: mana level enough to allow a ritual magic spell or two to be cast? Maybe a
: little horror brought over in ancient times and waiting for its big brothers
: to show up? Or a horror construct or two?
It might have been able to raise the magic level a little bit.
Maybe enough to allow spells to work temporarily, but I doubt it could have
raised it to anywhere near the level required to allow horrors to cross, or
even invae for that matter.
Any horror constructs that may have been created would probably lapse into
dormancy the moment the magic level returned to normal.
(Which could mean the odd horror construct is about to wake up in Aztlan, as
long as it didn't die after the Cadaver man year and a day limit...).
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack in |
|u5...@cc.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal subjects in:-|to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/FA>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can still say FUCK! Americans can't|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
S.R.Bailleul
I did see an article "Magic in Spacestations" in one of the SR-Archives
on the Net. I can`t for the life of me remember where, though. It had a
few very interesting points, though. Basically it came down to a
quasi-scientific explanation of Mages dying in space. It argues that you
could imagine a mage linking up to the astral is like a high pressure
Mana area opening up to a Mana-vacuum. Phoomph goes the Mana, and it
takes the mages life with it. The essay also talks about the idea of
"forming new gaiaspheres". Basically, magic in space would be possible if
there was a large enough amount of living beings in one spot to create a
large scale and stable high pressure Mana zone. What would hold these
Mana zones together, or what keeps the Gaiasphere from dissolving into
space, I (and the essay, for that matter) do not know.
Sergej
ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD
>Barriers and Ammunition:
>- Normal ammo goes against base Barrier Rating for both penetration and
> degredation.
As I read it, this is wrong. Normal ammo won't penetrate a barrier if
the base power, not the autofire power, is less than the Barrier rating.
In addition, normal ammo goes against double Barrier rating for degradation.
"...except that the barrier has twice its normal barrier rating against
firearm rounds and other ranged attacks." p98, column 2, just above the
Barrier Effect Table. Normal rounds certainly qualify.
>- Flechette goes against twice Barrier Rating for both penetration and
> degradation.
>- Gel goes against twice Barrier Rating for both penetration and degredation,
> using its -2 Power penalty.
>- Armor-piercing ammo (including APDS) halves Barrier Rating for
> penetration, doubles it for degredation.
Which essentially means that AP ammo goes against the unmodified Barrier
rating for degradation, and 1/2 Barrier rating for penetration.
>- Explosive ammo (including EX) halves Barrier Rating for degredation, doubles
> it for penetration. Only apply explosive round Power bonus for degredation.
Really? Is this a house rule? After all, explosive bullets are still
bullets and still only punch a small hole, so they should still go
against double the barrier rating for degradation. And it should apply
just lik normal ammo for penetration.
>- Explosive, armor-piercing attempts to penetrate at half Barrier Rating, and
> if successful does degredation against twice Barrier Rating. If
> unsuccessful, degrade armor at half Barrier Rating. Only apply explosive
> bonus (to degradation) if penetration unsuccessful.
>- HESH behaves as explosive ammo of the appropriate type
Obviously, these are combinations of the explosive effects and the AP
effects, which makes sense. My complaint is that the explosive ammo
effects don't make sense to me and also run contrary to the way I read
the Barrier section of the rules.
>Barrier penetration:
> Shooting through a barrier requires base Round power to be higher than
> Barrier Rating. Deduct Barrier Rating from modified Power for any attacks
> that get through.
Right. But the penetration section makes no comment about doubling the
Barrier rating against firearms, so why did you do so above talking about
ammo?
>Barrier degredation:
> If base round Power equals or exceeds Barrier Rating, remove one point of
> Barrier Rating. For every increment of half the Barrier Rating that the
> modified Power exceeds the Barrier Rating, remove one additional point of
> Barrier Rating. Attacks which remove two or more points of Barrier Rating
> at a time may open a gaping hole in the Barrier.
>
>(Note: remember to halve/double Barrier Rating due to ammo type _before_
>calculating penetration/degredation)
Generally that's a much clearer explanation than in SR2, but there are
some questions still about explosive effects.
Brian
Dave
>
> I pray for 2011 to be right. Oh yeah, anyone else see that
>2011-2012 is pretty major in A LOT of religions?
>
> Nostradamus predicts something BIG arund tehre... Some big
>CHristian saint says that the last Pope will be around then... The
>pyramids measurements when equated give around then... The I-CHing's
>equations give right around then and the Mayan sixth world is suppose to
>start then... Clearly something is gonna hapen, and it's gonna be big...
>Maybe not the return of Magic, but something big...
>
>
Hey, what are you on about the Pyramids predicting the end of known
civilisation? Not quite, try reading "Footprints (or it might be
Fingerprints) of the Gods" by Graham Hancock, I don't think anyone wants
what he's predicting may happen in the arly part of the next century. I sure
ain't gonna produce a magickal cyber culture though.
Cheers.
Justin Fang
Bradley Smith <har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>In article <4llps3$d...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>SRII has no particular rules about armor-piercing-explosive ammo that I know
>>of, but it's a logical extrapolation for things like rotary assault cannons
>>and tank guns and other really heavy vehicle weapons.
I should add that by no means am I an expert on munitions or vehicle weapons.
> APX (Armor-Piercing Explosive) is usually shot by BIG guns, like
>the 406mm cannon on the Iowa-class battleships. It is made so it can go
>through armor and _then_ explode on the other side, doing catastrophic
>damage (and ruining the other guy's day).
Okay, really really big vehicle weapons then. From a game mechanics
viewpoint, the desired result is ammunition that tries to go through armor
to hurt whatever's on the other side, but will settle for degrading the
armor to make it easier for the next round. So it halves barrier rating for
both penetration and degredation. I'm assuming that you could make something
clever but expensive to do this, and it doesn't matter too much what the
something actually is. If something like this actually exists in the real
world, then fine, but the entire issue is mostly a theoretical one anyway.
(It came up in our group during an attempt to clarify the barrier rules.)
> While conceivably useful...somehow...for small fry, these remain
>primarily useful for BB-killing (i.e. hunting for battleships),
>bunker-busting, and runway-cratering, when something has a high DR/Armor
>rating.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that in SR times, armor technology is
better comparted to weapons technology than in our time, which might
increase the possible uses of specialized anti-armor ammunition.
> Autocannon typically fire things like APDU (like the standard
>round, but made out of depleted uranium), HE, HESH (HE, but explodes in
>such a way that if the blast doesn't penetrate armor, it'll knock bits
>and pieces off the armor (spalling), which carom around inside the
>target, damaging its innards (including crew)), and other fun rounds.
>Look in GURPS Vehicles for more lovely information about this.
Don't own that book. I suppose APDU would be equivalent to APDS in SR.
The HESH rules we came up with are in another post.
Speaking of which, has anyone figure out what the point of the "autocannon"
listed in the back of SRII (in the section on vehicle-mounted weapons
dervived from Rigger Black Book) is? It looks inferior to an assault cannon
in just about every way.
>>Actually, in the campaigns I play in, even normal assault cannons are purely
>>a theoretical possibility, never mind rotary ones.
> Aww... Your campaigns must be no fun. ;-)
What, getting shot by an assault cannon is supposed to be fun? :)
>Brad
>
>--
>************************************************************************
>*The Few....The Proud....The Puppybrothers! Bradley N. Smith *
>* Look for a recruiter near you! har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu *
>************************************************************************
Bradley Smith
In article <4lopb1$4...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In article <4lm21l$p...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>,
>Bradley Smith <har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>I should add that by no means am I an expert on munitions or vehicle weapons.
I have serious doubts that too many, if any, of us are. (That's
why we have books!)
>> APX (Armor-Piercing Explosive) is usually shot by BIG guns, like
>>the 406mm cannon on the Iowa-class battleships. It is made so it can go
>>through armor and _then_ explode on the other side, doing catastrophic
>>damage (and ruining the other guy's day).
>Okay, really really big vehicle weapons then. From a game mechanics
>viewpoint, the desired result is ammunition that tries to go through armor
>to hurt whatever's on the other side, but will settle for degrading the
>armor to make it easier for the next round. So it halves barrier rating for
>both penetration and degredation. I'm assuming that you could make something
>clever but expensive to do this, and it doesn't matter too much what the
>something actually is. If something like this actually exists in the real
>world, then fine, but the entire issue is mostly a theoretical one anyway.
>(It came up in our group during an attempt to clarify the barrier rules.)
The main problem with APX rounds is that the initial damage is
rather low (Vehicles is at home, but I seem to remember it being that
way). This is why tanks today don't use it; instead, they tend to carry
a HEAT round up-the-pipe, and if they run into something harder than an
APC, will switch over to APFSDU (Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized, Depleted
Uranium) rounds. (These are totally unfun to be on the wrong end of).
>> While conceivably useful...somehow...for small fry, these remain
>>primarily useful for BB-killing (i.e. hunting for battleships),
>>bunker-busting, and runway-cratering, when something has a high DR/Armor
>>rating.
>I seem to recall reading somewhere that in SR times, armor technology is
>better comparted to weapons technology than in our time, which might
>increase the possible uses of specialized anti-armor ammunition.
The problem is, of course, that HE is, as a rule, ineffective
against armored targets. Monroe Effect warheads (HEAT rounds) can be
defended against by laminate armor and/or reactive armor. So, the main
method for heavy anti-armor is the kinetic-energy weapon (like the APFSDU
round, or a railgun). (Note: HESH is unusual in the way that it deals
with armor. As of now, it's used mainly by the Brits and their clients,
but as armor improves, it should be more common)
>> Autocannon typically fire things like APDU (like the standard
>>round, but made out of depleted uranium), HE, HESH (HE, but explodes in
>>such a way that if the blast doesn't penetrate armor, it'll knock bits
>>and pieces off the armor (spalling), which carom around inside the
>>target, damaging its innards (including crew)), and other fun rounds.
>>Look in GURPS Vehicles for more lovely information about this.
>Don't own that book. I suppose APDU would be equivalent to APDS in SR.
>The HESH rules we came up with are in another post.
Wait until fall, when the second edition comes out. It's a dandy
book, and useful if you want real-life approximations of things.
Oh, and APDS is standard ammo, AFAICT. What I would do with APDU
is do some sort of armor divisor; say, it negates half the target's
ballistic armor.
>Speaking of which, has anyone figure out what the point of the "autocannon"
>listed in the back of SRII (in the section on vehicle-mounted weapons
>dervived from Rigger Black Book) is? It looks inferior to an assault cannon
>in just about every way.
They need something lighter? Or wasn't it first printed in the
SR book? I dunno.
>> Aww... Your campaigns must be no fun. ;-)
>What, getting shot by an assault cannon is supposed to be fun? :)
No, silly! You shoot first with yours!
Joseph Meyer
Look at it this way. Horrors, 4-6 Billion people with magic, cybertech,
and lots of BIG guns. Humm..can you say nusance. Horrors are reduced to
just another paranormal problem. (Honey, call the Horror hunters. Bobby
is changeing into that blob again.)
meye...@digital.net
David R. Henry
Thomas Berman writes:
>Exactly. :) This is the basis of my theory. The respective Mayan city state
>leaders
>would have huge rituals involving self-bloodletting and lots of
>hallucinogenics.
>This was done to contact the serpent god. Guess what the serpent god would
>say?
Well, nice theory, except the Mayans didn't worship Quetzalcoatl. :)
I get the idea, however.
>Another wild theory -- Aztechnology is peripherally controlled by a
>horror.
No proof on that as of yet. Good pointers, but we have to vote
no proof in the end.
--
Insult a vegetable and go to jail? Fight the madness! Dunkelzahn for Prez!
What was the question? --Kate Bush / All you of Earth are IDIOTS! -- P9fOS
*THE* Source of great motivational disasters ***** dhe...@plains.nodak.edu
Mark L. Neidengard
In article <Pine.BSI.3.91.960424...@xanadu.io.com>,
>
>All I can say is... Verjigorm? Corruptor of DRAGONS?! You can have your
>genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
>Pluto. Buh-bye.
One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
On 26 Apr 1996, Mark L. Neidengard wrote:
> In article <Pine.BSI.3.91.960424...@xanadu.io.com>,
> Dr. Bolthy von Schotz <bol...@io.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Better prepared, better trained, better... better!"
> >
> >All I can say is... Verjigorm? Corruptor of DRAGONS?! You can have your
> >genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
> >Pluto. Buh-bye.
>
> One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
All I can say is: Chicago? I think Verjigorm ranks a bit higher than
your average true form bug spirit... If he hangs out in the Astral a lot,
we _might_ be lucky to get torpor... Maybe.
Bradley Smith
In article <4lqua5$g...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
Mark L. Neidengard <mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In article <Pine.BSI.3.91.960424...@xanadu.io.com>,
>Dr. Bolthy von Schotz <bol...@io.com> wrote:
>>"Better prepared, better trained, better... better!"
>>All I can say is... Verjigorm? Corruptor of DRAGONS?! You can have your
>>genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
>>Pluto. Buh-bye.
>One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
Yes, but are you _sure_ it'll work? Verjy's pretty tough, and
probably a lot smarter than you could ever hope to be. So, just in case,
have twelve back-up plans, and bring along a gun to blow your brains out
if he winds up at the end of Escape Route #18. :)
Kyrin
On Apr 26, 1996 16:40:37 in article <Re: SR - Aztlan, the horrors, and the
Earthdawnesque Apocalypse>, 'mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Mark L.
Neidengard)' wrote:
>>All I can say is... Verjigorm? Corruptor of DRAGONS?! You can have your
>>genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
>>Pluto. Buh-bye.
>
>One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
attribute to soak a nuke (j/k). Yah Never know...
--
-Kyrin
'Sure, It never hurts to help!' -Eek the cat
Paul Jonathan Adam
In article <4ljea6$s...@news-e2b.gnn.com> Sir...@gnn.com "Jason Earl" writes:
> I am not very knowledgeable about firearms (especially something like a
> rotary assualt cannon), but is there such a thing as armor-piercing-explosive
> ammo. I always thought that it had to be one or the other. Does SRII have
> rules on such a thing?
No. But by the time your calibre reaches 20mm or so, you can have AP (armour
piercing), SAPHE (semi-armour-piercing, high explosive) or HE. AP is a lump
of metal: tungsten, DU, hardened steel. Throw it hard and hope it gets
through. HE is a hollow shell which explodes on impact. Great for soft targets
(trucks, people, light building), poor on armour. SAPHEI is HE with a thicker
nose section, maybe hardened, and base-fused: it penetrates into the target
before exploding (hopefully not going all the way through). A classic place
to use SAPHEI is on ships: HE bursts on the outer plating, while SAPHEI
explodes inside the ship and does a lot more damage.
Bigger guns give you yet more choice: shaped charges (HEAT), squash-head
(HESH), explosively-formed projectile (EFP), various flavours of AP
(HVAP, APDS, APFSDS).
None of which, of course, really fit into a game where you're trying to
be inconspicuous in the shadows... hence FASA's lack of detail.
--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude
towards him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem.
For better or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." R. A. Lafferty
Paul J. Adam pa...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk
Paul Jonathan Adam
har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu "Bradley Smith" writes:
> The main problem with APX rounds is that the initial damage is
> rather low (Vehicles is at home, but I seem to remember it being that
> way). This is why tanks today don't use it; instead, they tend to carry
> a HEAT round up-the-pipe, and if they run into something harder than an
> APC, will switch over to APFSDU (Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized, Depleted
> Uranium) rounds. (These are totally unfun to be on the wrong end of).
<Armaments pedant mode ON>
"APX" - more correctly SAPHEI or APHE, depending on fusing and charge weight
isn't used in tank main guns because it's been superceded. Tank armour is good
enough that APFSDS (AP, fin-stabilised, discarding sabot) rounds are needed to
reliably penetrate, but they come through with so much energy that the spall
and fragmentation destroys the target.
APHE dated back to World War 2 and thereabouts, when even antitank guns had
much lower velocities than they do now, and getting a reliable kill was
greatly assisted by smashing a slug of metal into a tank, then having it
explode. Now, the idea is to use a discarding-sabot round and maximise the
energy density. While the Rheinmetall 120mm of a M1A1 Abrams tank actually
has a lower muzzle energy than the 128mm L55 PaK of 1945, it penetrates *three
times* the armour, mostly because it uses APFSDS ammunition instead of
APHE. It also has a much higher muzzle velocity, which makes it much easier
to hit the enemy with.
APHE was popular with Vietnam tank crews, who still had old WW2-vintage 90mm
guns on their M48s, for bunker busting.
> The problem is, of course, that HE is, as a rule, ineffective
> against armored targets. Monroe Effect warheads (HEAT rounds) can be
> defended against by laminate armor and/or reactive armor. So, the main
> method for heavy anti-armor is the kinetic-energy weapon (like the APFSDU
> round, or a railgun). (Note: HESH is unusual in the way that it deals
> with armor. As of now, it's used mainly by the Brits and their clients,
> but as armor improves, it should be more common)
Don't forget the incidental damage effects of HE. Okay, you might not
penetrate the armour, but you're smashing optics and gunsights, damaging
the running gear, tracks and wheels, and with big enough rounds jamming
interfaces like the turret ring. It certainly isn't the round of choice,
but it isn't to be ignored if it's all you have.
> Wait until fall, when the second edition comes out. It's a dandy
> book, and useful if you want real-life approximations of things.
GDW's Fire, Fusion and Steel is great for stuff like this. So is a job
as a defence contractor and membership of the Territorial Army. (I did
say I was a pedant :) )
> Oh, and APDS is standard ammo, AFAICT. What I would do with APDU
> is do some sort of armor divisor; say, it negates half the target's
> ballistic armor.
Not really, not on people. Depleted uranium isn't magic: it penetrates armour
just like tungsten. It is pyrophoric, meaning the spall spontaneously ignites,
but anything big enough to generate this effect is into serious overkill if
you're using it for antipersonnel work :) Used on heavy armoured targets,
it has a secondary incendiary effect, is all.
There's usually a pretty definite difference, in 20mm and up, between 'ball'
or TP (target piercing) - simple solid slugs, cheap - and the other natures
like AP, HE, HEI, SAPHEI et al. Even if you're not using saboted subcalibre
penetrators, AP will have a hardened penetrator, a piercing cap and often
a ballistic nosecone, rather than being a simple cast, jacketed slug.
If we're throwing artillery like this around, why is everyone forgetting
canister and flechette? There's something about a 105mm shotgun... :)
Much more effective on people than plinking them with whatever AP ammo
we're using today.
Hawthorn
Dave Wagner wrote : <<I pray for 2011 to be right. Oh yeah, anyone else
Nostradamus predicts something BIG arund tehre... Some big CHristian
saint says that the last Pope will be around then... The pyramids
measurements when equated give around then... The I-CHing's equations
give right around then and the Mayan sixth world is suppose to start
then... Clearly something is gonna hapen, and it's gonna be big...Maybe
not the return of Magic, but something big...>>
saying "Be careful of what you wish for, because you might just get it".
And from the chronological story of the Shadowrun universe, I hope the
futures not too similar (if you're thinking that I'm being too chicken
about it, just read through the history according to Shadowrun...
interesting isn't it, now imagine you're part of the 'VITAS' statistic).
Hawthorn
David R. Henry
Mark L. Neidengard writes:
>>All I can say is... Verjigorm? Corruptor of DRAGONS?! You can have your
>>genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
>>Pluto. Buh-bye.
>
>One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
Transfer Damage Power, Rank 40. Everyone in Verjigorm's astral sight
takes the damage from the nuke, Verjigorm is unhurt. Bad plan. Of
course, there _aren't_ any good plans with Verjigorm.
Justin Fang
In article <Pine.BSI.3.91.960426...@bermuda.io.com>,
>> In article <Pine.BSI.3.91.960424...@xanadu.io.com>,
>> Dr. Bolthy von Schotz <bol...@io.com> wrote:
>> >All I can say is... Verjigorm? Corruptor of DRAGONS?! You can have your
>> >genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
>> >Pluto. Buh-bye.
>> One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
>All I can say is: Chicago? I think Verjigorm ranks a bit higher than
>your average true form bug spirit... If he hangs out in the Astral a lot,
>we _might_ be lucky to get torpor... Maybe.
Use a thousand person ritual sorcery type thing then. Still not much of a
problem. The Horrors who arrive "on time" just aren't going to be a threat.
Oh sure, the early ones will get to party it up for a while, but all that's
going to do is provide a strong incentive for humanity to find ways to
exterminate the things.
Dylan Flynn Alexander
}Use a thousand person ritual sorcery type thing then.
Yep, _I_ sure have a thousand magicians of the same tradition with skill
of 1000 in sorcery in my campaign.
It's tough to get them to leave their Apaloosa's, though.
--
Dylan Flynn Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu
Carl Perkins
In article <4lqua5$g...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Mark L. Neidengard) writes...
}>
}>genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
}>Pluto. Buh-bye.
}
}One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
}/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
Unfortunately, odds are excellent that all that would do is inconvenience it.
And make it angry. (I'm fairly sure that V. is one of the Horrors that has
separate physical and astral forms - i.e. they are generally not in the same
place at the same time, even if the nuke did affect astral space it wouldn't
harm the astral part since that part is off doing other things elsewhere. The
nuke would, barring a last minute escape, "nuke" the physical form - but it can
always make another one... Better hope you can track down the astral form
before that happens, since killing them both is the only way to really kill it.
Don't you just hate when that happens?)
--- Carl
Carl Perkins
robe...@usa.pipeline.com(Kyrin) writes...
}On Apr 26, 1996 16:40:37 in article <Re: SR - Aztlan, the horrors, and the
}Neidengard)' wrote:
}
}
}>>All I can say is... Verjigorm? Corruptor of DRAGONS?! You can have your
}
}>>genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
}>>Pluto. Buh-bye.
}>
}>One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
}attribute to soak a nuke (j/k). Yah Never know...
Actually, under SR rules it'd probably survive - it's "just" a D wound, which
isn't actually comletely dead, just somewhat dead due to the overflow damage
capacity (which would be huge - V.'s body rating would probably be some 6 or 7
times that of an average troll's, along with a *lot* of armor, probably
hardened, not that hardening matters much against a nuke). What with probably
having a separate astral form, servants, constructs, etc. to help it, the Heal
would probably beat the running-out-of-overflow...
But, like was hashed out long ago - the SR system doesn't really deal at all
well with things of the power level of either nukes or Verjigorm. Putting the
two together just compounds the sillyness.
--- Carl
Carl Perkins
Pa...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk writes...
}If we're throwing artillery like this around, why is everyone forgetting
}canister and flechette? There's something about a 105mm shotgun... :)
}Much more effective on people than plinking them with whatever AP ammo
}we're using today.
Don't forget about chain - great for shredding your target's rigging and
not half bad as an antipersonnel round too.
(Well, if you're in a "SailPunk" setting it's useful, anyway...
Arrr, matey; scupper me wi' a handspike if it ain't so.)
--- Pirate Carl
Justin Fang
Mark may want to go into more detail on this, but I'll try to save him some
work.
In article <4lodvi$l...@peabody.colorado.edu>,
ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <ang...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>In article <4lmqbm$q...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Mark L. Neidengard <mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>(ammo stuff snipped)
>>Barriers and Ammunition:
>>- Normal ammo goes against base Barrier Rating for both penetration and
>> degredation.
>As I read it, this is wrong. Normal ammo won't penetrate a barrier if
>the base power, not the autofire power, is less than the Barrier rating.
Which is what he says elsewhere.
>In addition, normal ammo goes against double Barrier rating for degradation.
>"...except that the barrier has twice its normal barrier rating against
>firearm rounds and other ranged attacks." p98, column 2, just above the
>Barrier Effect Table. Normal rounds certainly qualify.
Ah, but the key here is that a barrier gets degraded if the power of the
attack is over half the (modified) barrier rating. So, when considering
whether a normal bullet degrades a barrier, you double the barrier rating,
and then halve it. Or you can skip that and just compare base round power to
base barrier rating.
Also, the doubled barrier rating vs. firearm attacks for degradation applies
to all of the special ammunition listed below, in addition to any other
modifiers.
>>- Flechette goes against twice Barrier Rating for both penetration and
>> degradation.
>>- Gel goes against twice Barrier Rating for both penetration and degredation,
>> using its -2 Power penalty.
>>- Armor-piercing ammo (including APDS) halves Barrier Rating for
>> penetration, doubles it for degredation.
>Which essentially means that AP ammo goes against the unmodified Barrier
>rating for degradation, and 1/2 Barrier rating for penetration.
No, the equation is for AP ammo and degradation is as follows:
Barrier rating x 2 (modifier for all firearms for degradation) x 2 (modifer
for AP bullets for degradation) / 2 (modifer for all barriers for degradation)
= double barrier rating. So if the base round power of the AP bullet is twice
the barrier rating or more, the barrier gets degraded.
>>- Explosive ammo (including EX) halves Barrier Rating for degredation,
>> doubles it for penetration. Only apply explosive round Power bonus for
>> degredation.
>Really? Is this a house rule? After all, explosive bullets are still
>bullets and still only punch a small hole, so they should still go
>against double the barrier rating for degradation. And it should apply
>just lik normal ammo for penetration.
No, the explosive ammo bonus for degradation is in the rules, SRII, page 93,
under "Explosive Rounds":
"Attempts to fire through a barrier use twice the normal Barrier Rating of
the material, but the barrier takes damage as if it had one-half its normal
Barrier Rating."
>>- Explosive, armor-piercing attempts to penetrate at half Barrier Rating, and
>> if successful does degredation against twice Barrier Rating. If
>> unsuccessful, degrade armor at half Barrier Rating. Only apply explosive
>> bonus (to degradation) if penetration unsuccessful.
>>- HESH behaves as explosive ammo of the appropriate type
>Obviously, these are combinations of the explosive effects and the AP
>effects, which makes sense. My complaint is that the explosive ammo
>effects don't make sense to me and also run contrary to the way I read
>the Barrier section of the rules.
>>Barrier penetration:
>> Shooting through a barrier requires base Round power to be higher than
>> Barrier Rating. Deduct Barrier Rating from modified Power for any attacks
>> that get through.
>Right. But the penetration section makes no comment about doubling the
>Barrier rating against firearms, so why did you do so above talking about
>ammo?
I'm not sure exactly what you're objecting to here.
>>Barrier degredation:
>> If base round Power equals or exceeds Barrier Rating, remove one point of
>> Barrier Rating. For every increment of half the Barrier Rating that the
>> modified Power exceeds the Barrier Rating, remove one additional point of
>> Barrier Rating. Attacks which remove two or more points of Barrier Rating
>> at a time may open a gaping hole in the Barrier.
>>(Note: remember to halve/double Barrier Rating due to ammo type _before_
>>calculating penetration/degredation)
>Generally that's a much clearer explanation than in SR2, but there are
>some questions still about explosive effects.
>Brian
>
Justin Fang
In article <4lp5fb$6...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>,
Bradley Smith <har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>In article <4lopb1$4...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>In article <4lm21l$p...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>,
>>Bradley Smith <har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>>I should add that by no means am I an expert on munitions or vehicle weapons.
> I have serious doubts that too many, if any, of us are. (That's
>why we have books!)
Paul Adam seems to qualify.
>>> APX (Armor-Piercing Explosive) is usually shot by BIG guns, like
>>>the 406mm cannon on the Iowa-class battleships. It is made so it can go
>>>through armor and _then_ explode on the other side, doing catastrophic
>>>damage (and ruining the other guy's day).
>>Okay, really really big vehicle weapons then. From a game mechanics
>>viewpoint, the desired result is ammunition that tries to go through armor
>>to hurt whatever's on the other side, but will settle for degrading the
>>armor to make it easier for the next round. So it halves barrier rating for
>>both penetration and degredation. I'm assuming that you could make something
>>clever but expensive to do this, and it doesn't matter too much what the
>>something actually is. If something like this actually exists in the real
>>world, then fine, but the entire issue is mostly a theoretical one anyway.
>>(It came up in our group during an attempt to clarify the barrier rules.)
> The main problem with APX rounds is that the initial damage is
>rather low (Vehicles is at home, but I seem to remember it being that
>way). This is why tanks today don't use it; instead, they tend to carry
>a HEAT round up-the-pipe, and if they run into something harder than an
>APC, will switch over to APFSDU (Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized, Depleted
>Uranium) rounds. (These are totally unfun to be on the wrong end of).
As I mentioned, we decided what game effects we wanted (halve barrier rating
for both penetration and degradation), then assumed there would be some ammo
that would have those effects. If said ammo is actually APFSDU or HESH or
something instead of APX, it doesn't change the game effect. Of course, this
is all based on FASA's rules for normal armor-piercing and explosive ammo,
and if those aren't realistic there's not much chance I'd know. (Now, if
they got something related to physics or chemistry or biology wrong... but
that's another thread entirely.)
>>Don't own that book. I suppose APDU would be equivalent to APDS in SR.
>>The HESH rules we came up with are in another post.
> Wait until fall, when the second edition comes out. It's a dandy
>book, and useful if you want real-life approximations of things.
> Oh, and APDS is standard ammo, AFAICT. What I would do with APDU
>is do some sort of armor divisor; say, it negates half the target's
>ballistic armor.
The listed effect of APDS (in Street Sam's Catalog 2 or SRII) is to halve
ballistic armor, so I don't think "standard" ammo is APDS. Of course, this
is for pistols and SMG's and stuff. Is it really possible to make APDS in
that small a size? Anyway, your suggestion on APDU would give it the same
effect as APDS, which is what I was suggesting.
>>> Aww... Your campaigns must be no fun. ;-)
>>What, getting shot by an assault cannon is supposed to be fun? :)
> No, silly! You shoot first with yours!
It's a little hard to avoid notice while lugging around an assault cannon...
which isn't easy because they're so heavy. Hard to get a hold of, too.
>Brad
>--
>************************************************************************
>*The Few....The Proud....The Puppybrothers! Bradley N. Smith *
>* Look for a recruiter near you! har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu *
>************************************************************************
Mark L. Neidengard
In article <4lodvi$l...@peabody.colorado.edu>,
ANGLISS BRIAN EDWARD <ang...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>In article <4lmqbm$q...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Mark L. Neidengard <mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>(ammo stuff snipped)
>
>>Barriers and Ammunition:
>> degredation.
>
>As I read it, this is wrong. Normal ammo won't penetrate a barrier if
>the base power, not the autofire power, is less than the Barrier rating.
>"...except that the barrier has twice its normal barrier rating against
>firearm rounds and other ranged attacks." p98, column 2, just above the
>Barrier Effect Table. Normal rounds certainly qualify.
My interpretation (and ruling, in any event) of the horrid wording there is
that normal bullets do the standard doubling of "base" Barrier Rating to compute
the "adjusted" Barrier rating against which we compare the base round Power.
Simply put, conventional attacks that directly impact the barrier must compare
their base Power straight across against the barrier's base Rating. Simple and
effective, plus produces effects that seem reasonable given the rest of the
system.
>>- Flechette goes against twice Barrier Rating for both penetration and
>> degradation.
>>- Gel goes against twice Barrier Rating for both penetration and degredation,
>> using its -2 Power penalty.
>>- Armor-piercing ammo (including APDS) halves Barrier Rating for
>> penetration, doubles it for degredation.
>
>Which essentially means that AP ammo goes against the unmodified Barrier
>rating for degradation, and 1/2 Barrier rating for penetration.
Nope. It means that you compare base round power against half-Barrier rating
for penetration, and double for degredation. Example: Armor 9 van, heavy
pistol shooting APDS. For penetration, compare base round Power 9 against
4 (9/2 round down), so the round penetrates and loses4 from its Power for
purposes of damaging things inside. For the purposes of degredation, compare
9 against 18 (9*2) and note that no armor degredation happens.
>>- Explosive ammo (including EX) halves Barrier Rating for degredation, doubles
>> it for penetration. Only apply explosive round Power bonus for degredation.
>
>Really? Is this a house rule? After all, explosive bullets are still
>bullets and still only punch a small hole, so they should still go
>against double the barrier rating for degradation. And it should apply
>just lik normal ammo for penetration.
The explosive bullets writeup is so muddled that I don't know how much of this
is house rule and how much of it is clarification, but the idea is that
explosive bullets are designed to explode _when_ they hit something, so that
they're less likely to penetrate armor when they hit it (in comparison to
normal ammo). Conversely, however, since they explode _at_ the armor, they're
more likely to degrade its Rating (by making a big hole). So: armor piercing
and explosive rounds are exact converses of each other in terms of doubling and
halving Barrier Rating.
>>- Explosive, armor-piercing attempts to penetrate at half Barrier Rating, and
>> if successful does degredation against twice Barrier Rating. If
>> unsuccessful, degrade armor at half Barrier Rating. Only apply explosive
>> bonus (to degradation) if penetration unsuccessful.
>>- HESH behaves as explosive ammo of the appropriate type
>
>Obviously, these are combinations of the explosive effects and the AP
>effects, which makes sense. My complaint is that the explosive ammo
>effects don't make sense to me and also run contrary to the way I read
>the Barrier section of the rules.
Well, the justification I use is above.
>>Barrier penetration:
>> Shooting through a barrier requires base Round power to be higher than
>> Barrier Rating. Deduct Barrier Rating from modified Power for any attacks
>> that get through.
>
>Right. But the penetration section makes no comment about doubling the
>Barrier rating against firearms, so why did you do so above talking about
>ammo?
Because in the books there's that weird comparison of base round power against
"half adjusted Barrier Rating", which is a lot of gibberish. Instead of
calculating "modified" Barrier rating by doubling it for firearms and the like
and then comparing against "half", I simply compare base Round Power against
base Barrier Rating. Simpler and quicker algebraically.
>>Barrier degredation:
>> If base round Power equals or exceeds Barrier Rating, remove one point of
>> Barrier Rating. For every increment of half the Barrier Rating that the
>> modified Power exceeds the Barrier Rating, remove one additional point of
>> Barrier Rating. Attacks which remove two or more points of Barrier Rating
>> at a time may open a gaping hole in the Barrier.
>>
>>(Note: remember to halve/double Barrier Rating due to ammo type _before_
>>calculating penetration/degredation)
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, CS Major, VLSI. http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~mneideng
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
Assuming you get a deadly wound, he'll be unconscious and taking damage
from the radiation in the area (as per rules in Bug City). Woo-ha! ;)
Mark L. Neidengard
In article <4lr8vh$6...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>,
>probably a lot smarter than you could ever hope to be. So, just in case,
>have twelve back-up plans, and bring along a gun to blow your brains out
>if he winds up at the end of Escape Route #18. :)
Kamawan. If Horrors were to ever make an appearance in a campaign I'm
involved with (and that's a phenomally big "if"), they aren't going to be
powerful enough to withstand a direct nuclear detonation. They aren't going
to have a Barrier with Force in the thousands, and I don't care how many
Spirit powers they're using. If the thing isn't in the etheric Astral and
fleeing for its life, it's going to get disrupted. And if someone had its
Truename and knew what to do with it, it's history.
And if _that_ fails, I've got other methods that could be employed. After
all, what better to combat a nasty spirit than another nasty spirit? >^>
Ben F. Rasmussen
David R. Henry (dhe...@plains.nodak.edu) wrote:
: Mark L. Neidengard writes:
:
: >>genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
: >>Pluto. Buh-bye.
: >One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
:
: Transfer Damage Power, Rank 40. Everyone in Verjigorm's astral sight
: takes the damage from the nuke, Verjigorm is unhurt. Bad plan. Of
: course, there _aren't_ any good plans with Verjigorm.
I still personaly feel tac nukes start falling in the relm of thing that
will even over power magical forces. Look at what it did to the bugs on
the astral plain... Who knows what the effects are going to be, we'll
just have to wait for a horror to pop up and then drop the tac nuke on one.
victor brueggemann
In article <4lo4t6$sg2@io>, S.R.Bailleul <ACH...@news.salford.ac.uk> wrote:
>I did see an article "Magic in Spacestations" in one of the SR-Archives
>on the Net. I can`t for the life of me remember where, though. It had a
>few very interesting points, though. Basically it came down to a
>quasi-scientific explanation of Mages dying in space. It argues that you
>could imagine a mage linking up to the astral is like a high pressure
>Mana area opening up to a Mana-vacuum. Phoomph goes the Mana, and it
>takes the mages life with it. The essay also talks about the idea of
>"forming new gaiaspheres". Basically, magic in space would be possible if
>there was a large enough amount of living beings in one spot to create a
>large scale and stable high pressure Mana zone. What would hold these
>Mana zones together, or what keeps the Gaiasphere from dissolving into
>space, I (and the essay, for that matter) do not know.
Hmm. Perhaps a ward of some type? It would be pretty weak since you have
such low 'pressure' at first, but as the pressure increases, it could be
strengthened.
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
Yeah... It knocked them unconscious. Woo-ha! Oh, and let's not forget
creating a great domain for summoning really nasty toxic spirits.
Justin Fang
In article <dylan-27049...@ppp12-01.rns.tamu.edu>,
Dylan Flynn Alexander <dy...@tamu.edu> wrote:
>In article <4lrp38$a...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu wrote:
>}Use a thousand person ritual sorcery type thing then.
>Yep, _I_ sure have a thousand magicians of the same tradition with skill
>of 1000 in sorcery in my campaign.
You do realize I was referring to a hypothetical far future where humanity
has has several hundred to a couple thousand years to develop defences against
the Horrors, don't you?
Obviously if Vergy shows up in 2058 the world is screwed. But if he shows up
in 3058 he'll get neutralized without much problem.
>It's tough to get them to leave their Apaloosa's, though.
>--
>Dylan Flynn Alexander
>dy...@tamu.edu
Bradley Smith
In article <4lu54g$e...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In article <4lp5fb$6...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>,
>Bradley Smith <har...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>> I have serious doubts that too many, if any, of us are. (That's
>>why we have books!)
>Paul Adam seems to qualify.
We will definitely agree. However, he isn't most of us. :)
>> The main problem with APX rounds is that the initial damage is
>>rather low (Vehicles is at home, but I seem to remember it being that
>>way). This is why tanks today don't use it; instead, they tend to carry
>>a HEAT round up-the-pipe, and if they run into something harder than an
>>APC, will switch over to APFSDU (Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized, Depleted
>>Uranium) rounds. (These are totally unfun to be on the wrong end of).
>As I mentioned, we decided what game effects we wanted (halve barrier rating
>for both penetration and degradation), then assumed there would be some ammo
>that would have those effects. If said ammo is actually APFSDU or HESH or
>something instead of APX, it doesn't change the game effect. Of course, this
>is all based on FASA's rules for normal armor-piercing and explosive ammo,
>and if those aren't realistic there's not much chance I'd know. (Now, if
>they got something related to physics or chemistry or biology wrong... but
>that's another thread entirely.)
Fair enough. (Hell, as often gets said, what you do in your own
little corner of the world doesn't really affect anyone else...but we
like to talk about it anyway!)
>> Wait until fall, when the second edition comes out. It's a dandy
>>book, and useful if you want real-life approximations of things.
>> Oh, and APDS is standard ammo, AFAICT. What I would do with APDU
>>is do some sort of armor divisor; say, it negates half the target's
>>ballistic armor.
>The listed effect of APDS (in Street Sam's Catalog 2 or SRII) is to halve
>ballistic armor, so I don't think "standard" ammo is APDS. Of course, this
>is for pistols and SMG's and stuff. Is it really possible to make APDS in
>that small a size? Anyway, your suggestion on APDU would give it the same
>effect as APDS, which is what I was suggesting.
Oops. Maybe I should check my facts sometime... D'oh! :)
>> No, silly! You shoot first with yours!
>It's a little hard to avoid notice while lugging around an assault cannon...
>which isn't easy because they're so heavy. Hard to get a hold of, too.
These, while difficult, are not quite insurmountable. You
shouldn't carry it around *everywhere* (which, of course, is obvious, but
we all know people who would try that in a game); just when you think
you'll need it, like when you're bug-hunting or covering some teammates.
The weight problem is mostly negated by the fact that if you're carrying
one, you are probably a samurai, and samurai have a tendency to get
muscle aug/rep, and will tend towards higher strength to begin with.
Availability: Buy it during character creation! ;) Failing
that, get a dealer with a useful skill of 6+; then, you stand a *very*
good chance of getting it in a few weeks. (I was doing some rolls,
looking for one, and I got one every five or six rolls)
Oeystein Halseth Lund
: >>All I can say is... Verjigorm? Corruptor of DRAGONS?! You can have your
: >>genengineered army and techno-magical kaers. I'll buy a ticket to
: >>Pluto. Buh-bye.
: >
: >One tac nuke and Mr. Verjigorm has had it. =)
: Transfer Damage Power, Rank 40. Everyone in Verjigorm's astral sight
: takes the damage from the nuke, Verjigorm is unhurt. Bad plan. Of
: course, there _aren't_ any good plans with Verjigorm.
Reminds me of this quote from Chthulhu Now !
"'So what happens if we nuke Chthulhu ?' Oh, well, he dies of course
- but he reforms in fifteen minutes - and this time he's radioactive.."
So - who there thinks the Horrors fits in nicely with a Chthulupunk
tie-in ? Who's to say that Verjigorm doesn't stop by R'lyeh for the
equivalent of tea and biscuits when he's in these parts ?
(exept Chaosium who has the licence, of course ;) )
--
"Don't play with madness. Madness doesn't play."
-Charles Buckowski.
James D. McManus
Who knows what the effects are going to be, we'll
>> just have to wait for a horror to pop up and then drop the tac nuke on one.
>>
>
Yup. That should open the gate to let the rest come thru.
Carl Perkins
gre...@woodtech.com (Ben F. Rasmussen) writes...
}I still personaly feel tac nukes start falling in the relm of thing that
}will even over power magical forces. Look at what it did to the bugs on
I suspect that the astral stuff that that nuke casued was not an inherant
property of a nuke, but was ratehr due to the bugs haveing an astral gateway
open at the time it went off, thereby allowing the physical aspects of the
blast to enter astral space. That's my guess, anyway.
--- Carl
David Rosson
: How do you think an Horror will stand up to a geneticaly engineered
: warrior with willpower 9, in powered armour with a 20mm guass weapon?
Also, since magic will likely be a little more pumped and its interaction
with technology better understood, it might very well be possible that
the armour and weapon would be enchanted somehow. For instance, say a
horror developed the 'gauss barrier' spell (someone mentioned a graviton
barrier). Well, then the inventive humans would just go out and develop
a 'gauss barrier piercing' enchantment for the 20mm....
Its doubtfull that horror anyway will have the chance to develop a
countermeasure for that to.
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
I'd say it was sort of a reverberation back into the Astral. "As above,
so below" and such. Toxic locations often have a strong Astral
presence... though not a healthy one... I'd say that the drastic effect
on the physical would echo back into the Astral.
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
*pulling himself back into chair after falling on the floor laughing*
I forgot about that quote... I coulda swore it was in Cthulhupunk, but
irregardless, it's damn funny... Oh and I think that Cthulhupunk and SR
make a good crossover. =)
Mike Weber
gre...@woodtech.com (Ben F. Rasmussen) wrote:
>I still personaly feel tac nukes start falling in the relm of thing
>that will even over power magical forces. Look at what it did to the
>bugs on the astral plain...
Is that near Kansas? *grin*
cd skogsberg
Yea, let it be known that at the time Fri, 3 May 1996 09:21:34 -0500,
in <Pine.BSI.3.91.96050...@pentagon.io.com> the
scribe "Dr. Bolthy von Schotz" <bol...@io.com> wrote thus:
> On 29 Apr 1996, Oeystein Halseth Lund wrote:
> > David R. Henry (dhe...@plains.nodak.edu) wrote:
> > : Mark L. Neidengard writes:
> > Reminds me of this quote from Chthulhu Now !
> > "'So what happens if we nuke Chthulhu ?' Oh, well, he dies of course
> > - but he reforms in fifteen minutes - and this time he's radioactive.."
> >
> > So - who there thinks the Horrors fits in nicely with a Chthulupunk
> > tie-in ? Who's to say that Verjigorm doesn't stop by R'lyeh for the
> > equivalent of tea and biscuits when he's in these parts ?
> > (exept Chaosium who has the licence, of course ;) )
> *pulling himself back into chair after falling on the floor laughing*
> I forgot about that quote... I coulda swore it was in Cthulhupunk, but
> irregardless, it's damn funny... Oh and I think that Cthulhupunk and SR
> make a good crossover. =)
Well, I've got Cthulhupunk, and I'd be willing to do some conversions,
except for the fact that I've been forced to stop playing SR, so I
don't know what the current Powers and Weaknesses are - but if someone
is willing to help, I'm sure something could be done. Maybe in the
style of Paranimals of NA/Europe?
cd
--
"And it has come to pass thet the Lord of the Woods, being ...Seven
and Nine, down the onyx steps ...(Tri)butes to him in the Gulf, Aza-
thoth, He of Whom Thou has taught us marv(els)..." -H. P. Lovecraft
cd skogsberg/c...@alfakonsult.se
Charles Gray
David Rosson <dro...@primenet.com> wrote:
For instance, say a
>horror developed the 'gauss barrier' spell (someone mentioned a graviton
>barrier). Well, then the inventive humans would just go out and develop
>a 'gauss barrier piercing' enchantment for the 20mm....
> Its doubtfull that horror anyway will have the chance to develop a
>countermeasure for that to.
Remember, FASA hasn't (at least I don't think they have), said if the
Horror's were comatose, or just barred from the earth until the magic
reaches the right level. If they've had the ability to observe (and
plan), they might have a whole bevy of surprises. Also, what if they
have their own horror marked (or horror construct) cybermantic
warriors shooting at the good guys? Remember Atzlan probably has
nukes....
am...@amazing.amazing.com
cg...@kirk.microsys.net (Charles Gray) writes:
> Remember, FASA hasn't (at least I don't think they have), said if the
>Horror's were comatose, or just barred from the earth until the magic
>reaches the right level.
When the stars are right they plunge from world to world, but when
the stars are wrong they cannot live.
:)
Urban Nightmare
On Tue, 23 Apr 1996 16:40:25 +0100, Craig <C.B.I...@durham.ac.uk>
wrote:
>On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, Paul Jonathan Adam wrote:
>
>> I don't like the idea that all of this is to be subjugated to fighting off
>> mystical Beings From Beyond. Fortunately for me, it seems FASA are moving
>> away from immortal Elves versus Horrors.
>
> Wish I could get that impression.It seemed to me that FASA were just
>trying to make me get Earthdawn to see what it's all about.I don't intend to.
> Hooray for low magic,non-earthshaking campaigns.
>
> Craig.
I don't think FASA is making you go out and by Earthdawn but if you do
get it it will help you when The Enemy does come to SR. If you take a
look at the new Threats sourcebook for SR you will notice one horror
construct. This could be fun. All FASA is doing is not letting them
into the plot line yet. They will come sooner or later.
Urban Nightmare
--------------------------------------------------------------
Is multiple personalities just mental multitasking?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ask me about the Wizard's Challenge Society
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Urban Nightmare wrote:
>
> I don't think FASA is making you go out and by Earthdawn but if you do
> get it it will help you when The Enemy does come to SR. If you take a
> look at the new Threats sourcebook for SR you will notice one horror
> construct. This could be fun. All FASA is doing is not letting them
> into the plot line yet. They will come sooner or later.
>
I thought there were two of them in the Darke section... the buggy thingy
and the slimy thingy...