Polgar's Breakout
RSHaas
announce by this Novermber a major breakout for American chess. So far..
nothing. Anyone know of anything in the works?
RSHaas
Jon Haskel
news:20031128200921...@mb-m07.aol.com...
USCF will be going to the Mensa set-up.
GreenPencil
I think what she meant is that all of the scholastic members are
growing up and hitting puberty, and that their faces are about to
break out.
Bruce Draney
No. What she meant was the prisoners are tired of paying the
outrageous sum of $10.00 to join USCF and they are about to break out,
so they can pay the regular adult rate of $49.00 and help USCF numbers.
Best Regards,
Bruce
StanB
> A short while ago Susan Polgar posted here on rgcp that she hoped she
No but I bet the volunteer of the year will send us a bill anyway.
StanB
Bill Brock
I realize that innuendo is your preferred mode of operation. Just for
a change of pace, why don't you post the statement she submitted and
go through the charges by line item?
StanB
"Bill Brock" <wbr...@21stcentury.net> wrote in message
news:ea907f13.03120...@posting.google.com...
> > > A short while ago Susan Polgar posted here on rgcp that she hoped she
> > could
> > > announce by this Novermber a major breakout for American chess. So
far..
> > > nothing. Anyone know of anything in the works?
> >
> > No but I bet the volunteer of the year will send us a bill anyway.
> >
> I realize that innuendo is your preferred mode of operation. Just for
> a change of pace, why don't you post the statement she submitted and
> go through the charges by line item?
You still championing these bloodsuckers?
StanB
Bill Brock
I prefer to deal in facts. Back in October, I made several queries
about the various allegations. Most of the people I contacted don't
want to be involved in the matter publicly, but all spoke about her
character in positive terms.
There is more I would say here, but I won't say it publicly without
evidence.
Facts are stubborn things: if you have firm evidence to the contrary,
that's another matter. I'm not in the habit of championing
counterfactuals.
So let's see the evidence.
ASCACHESS
>about the various allegations. Most of the people I contacted don't
>want to be involved in the matter publicly, but all spoke about her
>character in positive terms.
>
>There is more I would say here, but I won't say it publicly without
>evidence.
>
>Facts are stubborn things: if you have firm evidence to the contrary,
>that's another matter. I'm not in the habit of championing
>counterfactuals.
>
>So let's see the evidence.
>
I don't know about realities in this case, but we have been the subject of so
many lies regarding "facts" on this forum that one could be forgiven if she/he
was stubborn in not believing the given facts.
Even with Susan's excellent character as a given, she hurts herself by
surrounding herself with the Bob Bennett's of this world. The hyperbole of Mr.
Truong was so over the top, people could certainly be confused as to Susan's
character when Paul is claiming thousands of positive responses per month for
her column.
While Susan did not make this claim, Truong has claimed a business relationship
and Susan has not rejected that claim.
Rp
Bill Brock
To the extent that agent may have said something demonstrably untrue
about principal & did not retract, and principal did not subsequently
distance herself, yes, that's an ethical issue. But that's a long way
from financial impropriety.
Put simply: "bloodsuckers" was in the plural. Is it asking too much
to ask for proof? Or is it considered fair game to toss such words
around as sport?
If the word fits, I wouldn't want SP around USCF, either. But due
process is essential. If the word doesn't fit, she's being defamed.
If the answer is neither black nor white, there are ways to protect
USCF's interests without sullying SP's reputation.
StanB
> If the word fits, I wouldn't want SP around USCF, either. But due
> process is essential. If the word doesn't fit, she's being defamed.
> If the answer is neither black nor white, there are ways to protect
> USCF's interests without sullying SP's reputation.
Rumor has it that she'll be running for the board next cycle.
StanB
RSHaas
============
I suppose she'd have a tad more name recognition than old Haasie down here in
Sarasota.
RSHaas
Bill Brock
***snip***
>
> Rumor has it that she'll be running for the board next cycle.
>
> StanB
Your point being...?
"fact, n. [...] Something that has really happened or is actually
the case, as distinguished from something merely believed to be so;
the quality of being real or actual; a truth known by actual
observation or authentic testimony; *often pl., law*, something which
is alleged to be; as, *facts* given but not trustworthy."
Hope this helps.
Spam Scone
I thought the issue was Truong and Polgar allegedly expecting payment
for work they had allegedly agreed to do pro bono. Doesn't that count,
Bill? Stan, will you clarify this?
I leave aside various other Truong shady dealings, such as his brief
career as a member of the Cramer Committee, or "his" Olympiad Team, or
his "Bob Bennett" postings.
StanB
"Spam Scone" <tartak...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:76ba5964.03120...@posting.google.com...
> > > I don't know about realities in this case, but we have been the
subject of so
> > > many lies regarding "facts" on this forum that one could be forgiven
if she/he
> > > was stubborn in not believing the given facts.
> > > Even with Susan's excellent character as a given, she hurts herself by
> > > surrounding herself with the Bob Bennett's of this world. The
hyperbole of Mr.
> > > Truong was so over the top, people could certainly be confused as to
Susan's
> > > character when Paul is claiming thousands of positive responses per
month for
> > > her column.
> > > While Susan did not make this claim, Truong has claimed a business
relationship
> > > and Susan has not rejected that claim. (Rp)
She refers to him as her business manager.
> > To the extent that agent may have said something demonstrably untrue
> > about principal & did not retract, and principal did not subsequently
> > distance herself, yes, that's an ethical issue. But that's a long way
> > from financial impropriety.
>
> I thought the issue was Truong and Polgar allegedly expecting payment
> for work they had allegedly agreed to do pro bono. Doesn't that count,
> Bill? Stan, will you clarify this?
She was paid for several of the very same things that counted toward her
"Volunteer of the Year" award. Don't blame her, blame Niro for that one.
Brock called around and could get no one to dispute the various stories
about their shady dealings. So he appoints himself judge and jury and wants
copies of checks and other nefarious documents to accept the stories
floating around the newsgroups. Right. Like anyone cares whether Bob Brock
believes it or not.
StanB
ASCACHESS
>"Volunteer of the Year" award. Don't blame her, blame Niro for that one.
That one almost landed my coffee in my lap.
USCF PAID its volunteer of the year?
Isn't Bill Goichberg our volunteer office manager?
Since in the USCF lexicon, the normal meaning of words like volunteer, honesty,
integrity, profit, loss, seem to have lost their common English meaning, it
might do to make sure that "volunteer" office manager actually means without
compensation.
Rp
Bruce Draney
>>Rp
Don't forget "fired", "quit", "doing a great job", "turning things
around", "in the black", "Year of the Over the Board Tournament" and
various others that have taken on a Bizarro Planet like irony.
Best Regards,
Bruce
Bill Brock
***snip***
>
> I thought the issue was Truong and Polgar allegedly expecting payment
> for work they had allegedly agreed to do pro bono. Doesn't that count,
> Bill?
***snip***
Sure: if such allegations were made (rather than merely alluded to),
and proof were offered, that would count. Beats governance by
innuendo, and trashing reputations with rumors.
Going forward, it makes sense not to pay people (contractually or as a
expense reimbursement) without proper written authorization
beforehand. As folks travel thru the revolving door that is USCF,
they can glance at this documentation before authorizing payment. My
understanding is that this issue has already been addressed by Stan
and others.
But really...why go forward? Why focus on the positive? This is,
after all, USCF.
Bill Brock
I'm not appointing myself judge & jury: to the contrary, I'm
challenging you to prove that the woman you (as self-appointed judge &
jury) have characterized as a "bloodsucke[r]" is indeed one. Or,
absent proof, or absent the belief that producing said proof in public
is productive, I'm gently suggesting that characterizing individuals
as "bloodsuckers" may not be productive.
Re my phone calls--one can't disprove certain negatives. I couldn't
get anyone to go on record confirming the gist of your financial
story.... No one else I've spoken to had anything disparaging to say
about Susan Polgar's character; in fact, praise was the uniform
response.
Re volunteerism & payment for services. In general, Grandmasters get
paid for playing chess. This is what they do for a living.
Volunteers, by definition, don't get paid, but they often do receive
reimbursement for reasonable out-of-pocket expenses. Some volunteers
get paid an honorarium (which often, though not always, means
compensation way below market). Once upon a time, I received
$250/issue for editing the Illinois Chess Bulletin, which I used to
pay my out-of-pocket expenses (layout work). I did not consider
myself a bloodsucker; I did consider myself a volunteer.
Having said that, I acknowledge that there's a big ethical problem in
saying "I'm volunteering for X," then turning around & saying,
"Where's my payment for X?" I would also note that one can volunteer
for event X & expect to be paid for event Y, etc....
--Bob
***********************************
P.S. Polgar herself furnished me with this "invoice" (which looks more
like a statement, & which I reformatted from Word doc--the math error
is present in the original). I make no representations about the
propriety of any of the line items.
***********************************
Polgar Chess Center
[contact info redacted]
Grandmaster Susan Polgar
4-time Women's World Chess Champion & 3-time Olympic Champion
INVOICE # 102003
KISSIMMEE 2003 (3 days of activities)
Expenses for Susan Polgar, Tom & Leeam Shutzman Polgar and Paul Truong
a) Flight (4 tickets) = $820.00
b) Rental car = $449.86
Total Expenses: $1,269.86
Fee for simul, lectures, book signings, etc.
$2 / participant x 1168 participants = $2,336.00
NATIONAL ELEMENTARY - NASHVILLE 2003 (3 days of activities)
Expenses are already reimbursed.
Fee for simul, lectures, book signings, etc.
$2 / participants x 2396 participants = $4,792.00
US OPEN 2003 (14 days of activities)
Expenses for Susan Polgar and Paul Truong
a) Flight (2 tickets) $494.00
b) Daily allowance for food $50x2x14days = $1400.00
Total Expenses:
$1,494.00
Fee (Simul/Lecture/Book Signings etc.) $1,500.00
ROSEMONT K-12 DEC. 2003 (2-3 days of activities)
Susan's ticket only as agreed $246.50
Fee (Simul/Lecture/Book Signings etc. to be paid later) ($1,500.00)
Chess Life Opening Column - June 03 $500.00
Chess Life Opening Column - July 03 $500.00
Chess Life Opening Column - August 03 $500.00
Chess Life Opening Column - September 03 $500.00
Chess Life Opening Column - October 03 $500.00
_________
$15,638.36
Book & Equipment Balance:
$1,836.21
_________
$17,474.57
To be paid later
($1,500.00)
_________
$15,974.57
Please make check payable to Polgar Chess, Inc. Thank you!
Additional:
TLA amount: ? To be deducted or billed by the USCF
1,300 Women's Olympiad Calendars @ $6 each (payable to the Susan
Polgar Foundation) Only calendars that are sold are to be paid.
Unsold calendars can be returned by March 31, 2004 at no charge.
****
END STATEMENT
****
Bill Brock
yet): I wrote, "I couldn't get anyone to go on record confirming the
gist of your financial story.... ", which could reasonably be
construed as implying that I did received off-the-record confirmation.
I didn't.
Bob
CHRIS KINGMAN
> Don't forget "fired", "quit", "doing a great job", "turning things
> around", "in the black", "Year of the Over the Board Tournament" and
> various others that have taken on a Bizarro Planet like irony.
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Bruce
Welcome to the New Windsor Zoo! Time to move to Palm Beach Gardens!
StanB
> But really...why go forward? Why focus on the positive? This is,
> after all, USCF.
Those that don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it.
StanB
Bruce Draney
Have you ever noticed that the same people who keep screwing up things
always want to move forward so they can screw it up again? Look who's
in charge, Mr. Bill "The dues increases were absolutely essential"
Goichberg, and Mr. Don "Look at my line graph" Schultz who started the
ball rolling back in 1996 by forcing out Lawrence and replacing him with
Cavallo who Bill praises as a pretty good ED, because he had one year
where he only lost 5 figures instead of 6.
Best Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Draney
"The best volunteers, your dues money can buy."
Best Regards,
Bruce
LeModernCaveman
>> process is essential. If the word doesn't fit, she's being defamed.
>> If the answer is neither black nor white, there are ways to protect
>> USCF's interests without sullying SP's reputation.
>
>Rumor has it that she'll be running for the board next cycle.
Well, after all, SHE MARRIED A DOCTOR!
How'd that turn out anyway?
KJ2350
All in all, probably a lot better than if she'd married a RAVING LUNATIC.
LeModernCaveman
I'm sure she feels much better about her DIVORCE now that you've posted this.
Pity the men who have chess goggles.
John Fernandez
>From: lemoder...@aol.com (LeModernCaveman)
>Date: 12/19/2003 10:26 PM Central European Standard Tim
>Message-id: <20031219162648...@mb-m28.aol.com>
>
>>All in all, probably a lot better than if she'd married a RAVING LUNATIC.
>
>I'm sure she feels much better about her DIVORCE now that you've posted this.
>
>Pity the men who have chess goggles.
I played in this tournament here in Warsaw this weekend - wow. Tourney was 350
or so players and about 30% female. And the 3 women I played all didn't lose
vs. me!! Aiiii.
John Fernandez
Nick
message news:<20031217054001...@mb-m25.aol.com>...
As far as I know, Susan Polgar did not marry a doctor (of medicine).
Her sister, Sofia Polgar, however, is married to a doctor.
--Nick
John Fernandez
wasn't shocking, nor was 0/3 vs. the 2 GMs and 1 IM. Going 1/3 (=2 -1) versus 3
teenage polish girls was a bit surprising though.
John Fernandez